Speaker 1: A group of high school students.
Speaker 2: High school students Elizabethan High School students started a project
Speaker 2: to research.
Speaker 3: A string of unsolved murders.
Speaker 4: Their research led to the identification of the killer.
Speaker 5: Investigators now have an answer to a thirty four year
Speaker 5: old question.
Speaker 4: Once you start getting a few tips, or a few
Speaker 4: leads or few identifications, then the cold case isn't so cold.
Speaker 1: In any normal there's a pretty good chance he's still alive.
Speaker 4: Everything that the students predicted through their profile turned out
Speaker 4: to be accurate.
Speaker 6: Redhead Killer profile mail Caucasian, five nine six, two hundred
Speaker 6: and seventy pounds, unsable home, absent father, and a domineering mother,
Speaker 6: right handed, a Q above one hundred. Most likely heterosexual.
Speaker 4: There is no profile of this killer except for the
Speaker 4: ones the students created. Just because some of these women
Speaker 4: no longer have people to speak for them does not
Speaker 4: mean that they deserve to not.
Speaker 2: Be so anymore. What if this guy's still alive?
Speaker 1: Like what becomes after us?
Speaker 2: Consider it's gonna kill me?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm Alex Campbell, one of the hosts for Murder
Speaker 3: What O What? And you're listening to episode twelve Roundtable Update.
Speaker 1: This is a.
Speaker 3: Conversation with producer Andrew Arnaut and myself about a recent
Speaker 3: discovery on the case and a quick update to what
Speaker 3: my students are up to.
Speaker 4: Now, it's a good thing you called, because I got
Speaker 4: the craziest story you've ever heard. I just found out
Speaker 4: something about that's related to this case. It'll just boggle
Speaker 4: your mind. I don't even know everything about it. I
Speaker 4: mean I literally just found out.
Speaker 1: Minutes ago, but you're it.
Speaker 2: I'm excited.
Speaker 4: So at the end of July, the TBI identified what
Speaker 4: used to be called the Cheatham County Jane Doe of
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty five, So now we know she is Michelle Enman.
Speaker 1: So that is a recent development.
Speaker 4: And then I literally just found this a few minutes ago.
Speaker 4: But Michelle Weill Enman married when she was fifteen a
Speaker 4: guy named Ricky Lynn Kelly, which probably doesn't mean much
Speaker 4: to you, and it wouldn't have been anything to me
Speaker 4: until I just figured out who he was. So he
Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy eight was part of a plot to
Speaker 4: blow up the Percy Priest Dam, which is what holds the.
Speaker 1: River back in Nashville, Tennessee. Oh wow, one hundred and fifty.
Speaker 4: Pounds of dynamite blew up the dam, but it was
Speaker 4: not nearly.
Speaker 1: Enough dynamite to make it fail.
Speaker 4: But their plan was to flood all of downtown Nashville.
Speaker 4: They thought they could kill half the population of Nashville.
Speaker 4: And their goal was to go round after the destruction
Speaker 4: and loot all these businesses downstairs, I mean downtown.
Speaker 2: So they wanted to wipe out half of the city
Speaker 2: just to loop buildings.
Speaker 4: Yes, so they blew up, you know, one hundred fifty pounds,
Speaker 4: but that wasn't nearly enough. So they had already acquired
Speaker 4: or they were trying to acquire six hundred and fifty pounds,
Speaker 4: and they.
Speaker 1: Were going to try to blow it up again.
Speaker 4: But I think what happened I just read this a
Speaker 4: second ago. I think one of the guys tried to
Speaker 4: sell some of the dynamite. It ended up being an
Speaker 4: undercover FBI agent and anyway, so they got caught before
Speaker 4: they blew it tried to blow it up again. So
Speaker 4: at fifteen, that's who she married.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's wild. Do you know anything else about her?
Speaker 1: Well, a little bit. So he went to prison in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 4: I'm still trying to figure out, you know, how long
Speaker 4: he was in prison and all that, But it seems
Speaker 4: like she was going by Munn again after he went
Speaker 4: to prison, So I don't know if the marriage was,
Speaker 4: you know, like officially dissolved, divorced or whatever. She ends
Speaker 4: up in a relationship with this guy named Anthony Bradshaw,
Speaker 4: and she actually went to see him when he was
Speaker 4: in the Nashville County jail, and she signed as missus
Speaker 4: Michelle Bradshaw, even though they can't find an official marriage document,
Speaker 4: so she.
Speaker 1: Was probably posing as his wife so they would let
Speaker 1: her in, Like she's about eighteen at this time.
Speaker 4: Anyway, he must get out of jail, I guess, And yeah,
Speaker 4: he's probably out of jail. And in nineteen eighty four,
Speaker 4: they were both charged with extortion and obstruction of justice
Speaker 4: against a guy.
Speaker 1: So that's the last.
Speaker 4: Thing we really have of her as December nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 4: Her body was found March thirty first, nineteen eighty five,
Speaker 4: and she.
Speaker 1: Had been dead for a while.
Speaker 4: Let me see, Let's see if I can find it
Speaker 4: out real quick, like how she had been dead It
Speaker 4: was months probably, Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's wild. It's weird that a victim has their
Speaker 2: own crazy criminal history. Too.
Speaker 4: It does, It really does. And it's like that with
Speaker 4: some of the other victims too. Anyway, she had been
Speaker 4: dead for a while.
Speaker 1: A long while, so she probably I.
Speaker 4: Don't really know, Like if she says they were charged
Speaker 4: with this obstruction of justice and extortion in December the eighteenth,
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty four, if she was found on March thirty first,
Speaker 4: and she had been dead for months, then it wasn't
Speaker 4: much longer, much long after December the eighteenth, nineteen eighty
Speaker 4: four when she was charged with that crime, that she
Speaker 4: would have probably gone missing and ended up dead.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: And so that's interesting now because you know, she has
Speaker 4: a habit of hanging out with some pretty unsavory characters,
Speaker 4: and so what does that mean about other people, you know,
Speaker 4: possibly being involved. But also interesting thing is Jerry Johns
Speaker 4: he was in jail. So he was in jail on
Speaker 4: March sixth for the attempt to murder of Lyndon.
Speaker 1: So they find her body while he's in jail.
Speaker 4: The TBI asked him they had previously asked him have
Speaker 4: you been where any of these women have been killed?
Speaker 4: And Jerry John said, well, yeah, I've been where all
Speaker 4: the bodies have been found. But I'm a truck and
Speaker 4: I drive around a lot.
Speaker 1: So that don't mean I did it. That was his response.
Speaker 4: And then they go to him again after they find
Speaker 4: this body and they say, well, she would have died,
Speaker 4: you know a couple months back.
Speaker 1: Would you have been, you know, in the.
Speaker 4: Nashville area where she was found at the time that
Speaker 4: she would have been dumped out? And he said, well, yeah,
Speaker 4: I was there she about the time when she was
Speaker 4: dumped out, but I didn't do it. Weird, So, I mean,
Speaker 4: he admitted he was where everybody was, and in this
Speaker 4: one case, he even admitted that he was there when
Speaker 4: the body would have been dumped out.
Speaker 1: So wow, it's it's just a really crazy case, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's just like the twists and turns
Speaker 2: keep on coming. Huh.
Speaker 4: There was another Cheatham County Jane Doe in nineteen eighty one.
Speaker 4: Michelle Enman was known as the Cheatham County Jane Doe
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 1: So there was.
Speaker 4: Another one from eighty one that we weren't really sure
Speaker 4: if she kind of matched the mo the signature of
Speaker 4: the Bible Belt strangler because she was found a few
Speaker 4: miles away from the interstate near like a trash. I
Speaker 4: think it was the landfill or something. There were some
Speaker 4: hunters that were near that area that found this body.
Speaker 1: She was identified just.
Speaker 4: Like the other day, August sixteenth, So she was identified
Speaker 4: actually last month.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the Cheatham County. Before we even began to.
Speaker 4: Look at her case to see if she might be related,
Speaker 4: because we had not heard about this one until a
Speaker 4: few months ago. Anyway, they identified her and she was
Speaker 4: a fifteen year old named Linda Sue Corns, and she
Speaker 4: was actually at a youth home and she evidently had
Speaker 4: run away from the youth home and then she was
Speaker 4: found a.
Speaker 1: Few miles away. She had been dead for a while.
Speaker 4: A matter of fact, they don't even know exactly when
Speaker 4: she was dead, when she was killed.
Speaker 2: I mean, so do they think now that it's related
Speaker 2: to Jerry John's.
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know that they're releasing nothing.
Speaker 1: But this is the interesting part.
Speaker 4: They just said, you know, an old before even they
Speaker 4: identified her, they had said they thought it was a murder.
Speaker 4: Now they didn't say why, but that, but that tells
Speaker 4: me that they just didn't find like a bone lay
Speaker 4: out there.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, Well, I mean, or does that tell you
Speaker 2: that they have a suspect who's still alive, so they
Speaker 2: didn't want to release anything.
Speaker 1: I don't think.
Speaker 4: So what I think is the way her body was found,
Speaker 4: or what was found with it, or you know, something
Speaker 4: that was done to the body made them think this
Speaker 4: wasn't an accident.
Speaker 1: So that could be a lot of things.
Speaker 4: That could be a ligature around her neck, that could
Speaker 4: be a bullet hole, that could be some type of
Speaker 4: you know, bunch of broken bones, you know, something like
Speaker 4: that that showed there was some type of violence that happened.
Speaker 1: That's what I think it was.
Speaker 4: You know, maybe she was found in a trash bag,
Speaker 4: you know, something like that, where even though she was
Speaker 4: severely decomposed, that there would be something that would tell
Speaker 4: them this was probably not an accident.
Speaker 1: So that's the way I took it. Well.
Speaker 4: They were saying it was most likely, you know, a
Speaker 4: suspected homicide, I think is how they worded it. But
Speaker 4: they are asking for help, you know, if anybody you
Speaker 4: know recognizes her or anything like that, remembered anything, to
Speaker 4: let them know. But the interesting part is in the
Speaker 4: TBI press release, they don't mention anything about where she lived,
Speaker 4: where she was from, where she was last seen.
Speaker 1: I don't even think they gave her age.
Speaker 4: So they say, oh, we really need your help identifying
Speaker 4: this girl, and so if you remember anything about this girl,
Speaker 4: here's her name, let.
Speaker 1: Us know who.
Speaker 4: But they didn't say anything about where she was living,
Speaker 4: where she had been. So actually, dnasolves dot com probably
Speaker 4: has done the best job in getting out information about her.
Speaker 4: They actually put a picture out, which I don't even
Speaker 4: know if tv I did that. They have a colored
Speaker 4: picture of her, and have a lot of information about
Speaker 4: where she was born, where she was living, which a
Speaker 4: girl's home, she had actually been in.
Speaker 1: Stuff like that.
Speaker 2: That's really helpful information.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's the kind of thing that jogs
Speaker 1: people's memory.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean people say, oh yeah, I grew up there,
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I remember the youth home we lived down
Speaker 4: the road. And that's the kind of thing that helps people.
Speaker 4: So I was a little surprised when they didn't release Well,
Speaker 4: maybe I wasn't surprised.
Speaker 1: The TBI plays things.
Speaker 4: Close to the best as far as an investigating agency goes.
Speaker 1: That's just kind of their pattern, So maybe I wasn't
Speaker 1: super surprised.
Speaker 4: But that is the kind of thing that helps to
Speaker 4: jog people's memories. So I hope the information is getting
Speaker 4: out in some way to help people maybe remember or
Speaker 4: something about that.
Speaker 5: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
Speaker 5: a moment. Murder one oh one.
Speaker 4: What happened was Tennessee the Tensity grow Up Investigations got
Speaker 4: a grant of one hundred thousand dollars and this grant
Speaker 4: was to do genetic genealogies. So I think that was
Speaker 4: enough money to do eleven Jane or John.
Speaker 1: Doe's in the state.
Speaker 4: So they have been submitting these and I think they've
Speaker 4: gotten four of those back and actually figured out who
Speaker 4: they are.
Speaker 1: I think two were men and then these two women here.
Speaker 4: So as far as the victims related to that we
Speaker 4: feel are related to our case, all the ones in
Speaker 4: the state of Tennessee have now been a There is
Speaker 4: one more known as the Robertson County chain Doe. Again,
Speaker 4: that's what we just found out about. Robertson County is
Speaker 4: the county right beside Cheatham County. These are all kind
Speaker 4: of around Nashville.
Speaker 1: They all have a.
Speaker 4: Major interstate, a different major interstate that runs through them,
Speaker 4: and all of these bodies were found in a close
Speaker 4: proximity to the interstate. Linda Sukarn. She was found a
Speaker 4: few miles away from the interstate. The other two were
Speaker 4: found right on the interstate. So we are very interested
Speaker 4: in the Robertson County Jaine Doe.
Speaker 1: But again we haven't really begun to even go through that,
Speaker 1: and there's a few reasons why.
Speaker 4: I spoke with a detective in charge of that case,
Speaker 4: and he said that they originally thought it was a female,
Speaker 4: but now after some testing, they had been told it
Speaker 4: was a male.
Speaker 1: Because it was only like parts of the skull and
Speaker 1: parts of bones.
Speaker 2: Right, it's a lot harder to identify.
Speaker 4: But when I looked online, it actually said that they
Speaker 4: had originally thought it was a man and now they
Speaker 4: after some testing, they thought it was a woman. And
Speaker 4: when I told him that, he said, wow, like I
Speaker 4: always thought it was the other way, So he wasn't
Speaker 4: even aware that right now they were saying this was
Speaker 4: a female.
Speaker 1: So the only way to.
Speaker 4: Really clear this up is to work with the anthropology
Speaker 4: department at the University of Tennessee. They have her body,
Speaker 4: and so they actually have the name of the doctor
Speaker 4: who's in charge of that case. He said when if
Speaker 4: he got time, he would try to contact them. I
Speaker 4: told him I would do it. He said, if you
Speaker 4: want to try it. So I actually have emailed multiple
Speaker 4: times and called multiple times to both the doctor and
Speaker 4: the secretary who's in charge of that department, and I
Speaker 4: have gotten zero response from any of the people who
Speaker 4: are supposed to be.
Speaker 1: In charge of that.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't even get anybody to answer the
Speaker 1: phone or anything. So I was also told that that
Speaker 1: was not unusual.
Speaker 4: There's other people that have tried to work with them,
Speaker 4: and they say sometimes it's just nearly impossible to get
Speaker 4: somebody to answer back.
Speaker 1: So we don't even know if that's a male or
Speaker 1: a female, but.
Speaker 4: It appears that it's actually a female, so we need
Speaker 4: to investigate a little more in that case.
Speaker 1: And this is even more if this is possible.
Speaker 4: It's even more outlandish than the last one. Is that
Speaker 4: one of the surviving victims sent me some newspaper clippings
Speaker 4: that she started to keep after she was attacked, and
Speaker 4: she actually had a case there from Cock County, Tennessee.
Speaker 1: So she actually had this newspaper.
Speaker 4: Clipping and it said that they had found a redheaded
Speaker 4: victim beside the interstate there, and so I couldn't find
Speaker 4: anything on it. It had been months and months, and
Speaker 4: they actually the end the story it said they thought
Speaker 4: it was a woman who was missing from Cock County,
Speaker 4: but they checked the general records and it was not her.
Speaker 4: So they didn't know who this person was. And it
Speaker 4: was the sheriff speaking to the newspaper in this story.
Speaker 4: So I couldn't find her as far as like a
Speaker 4: Jane Doe or anything. So I called the sheriff and
Speaker 4: the sheriff said he had never heard of this.
Speaker 1: So he said he would.
Speaker 4: Check around, he would talk to some people, he'd look,
Speaker 4: and he said that they didn't have anything on this
Speaker 4: in their records, which is unusual.
Speaker 1: Caught County is a very rural county.
Speaker 4: They probably averaged about one murder a year, and they
Speaker 4: have a dead person beside the road, and they had.
Speaker 1: Her for going on a year. They had been checking
Speaker 1: dental records.
Speaker 4: I mean, there's stories in the newspaper about it, and
Speaker 4: yet there's no record at the sheriff's office.
Speaker 1: So anyway, he's been helpful. The sheriff.
Speaker 4: He tried to contact, I believe like the chief deputy
Speaker 4: at the time, and he was trying to get a
Speaker 4: hold of him to see if he knew anything about it,
Speaker 4: but he said he was having difficulty contacting him. And
Speaker 4: so there's another redheaded victim found beside an interstate in
Speaker 4: East Tennessee at about the right time.
Speaker 1: However, there's no record of this murder.
Speaker 4: And so the thing that gets me is in America
Speaker 4: just a few decades ago, you could be murdered and
Speaker 4: there would be no evidence of it a few decades later, Like,
Speaker 4: I don't understand how that happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't really make any sense.
Speaker 4: Little sensing was when I talked to some detectives down there,
Speaker 4: he said, well, that's crazy, you know, And I sent
Speaker 4: him that. He said, can you send me the newspaper story,
Speaker 4: I said, Steord, so send it to him. And he
Speaker 4: said that he had never heard of that either. He
Speaker 4: would look into it. And he said that what you know,
Speaker 4: an older cop or somebody had talked to told him
Speaker 4: is they thought this person was actually that it's near
Speaker 4: the state line with North Carolina, and actually she was
Speaker 4: found like on two miles.
Speaker 1: Or something from the state line, so it's pretty close.
Speaker 4: And he said that what he was told was that
Speaker 4: they believed that she was from the North Carolina side,
Speaker 4: and the murder happened there, and you know, she was
Speaker 4: probably dumped on their side. But when I called, there's
Speaker 4: only three agencies that would really be kind of close
Speaker 4: on the North Carolina side. I called every one of
Speaker 4: them and talk to the most likely one, the one
Speaker 4: that's right across the border, and she said that she
Speaker 4: didn't have anything on it either. And she told me,
Speaker 4: she actually took the time to explain to me, that's
Speaker 4: not how it works. She said, you don't find a
Speaker 4: dead body in your county and then figure out that
Speaker 4: maybe you know they were killed in another county, but
Speaker 4: you don't have any records. You would still have the
Speaker 4: record of finding the body who investigated it, you know
Speaker 4: what they did. And then even if you did believe
Speaker 4: it happened in another city or another county or another state,
Speaker 4: that you would put something in there that you know,
Speaker 4: this is now going to be handled by you know,
Speaker 4: another agency, but like those records wouldn't disappear.
Speaker 2: That's awfully suspicious.
Speaker 1: Yes, And so that's when I called. I said, I'm
Speaker 1: just going to call the sheriff.
Speaker 4: It's so funny that our school resource officer here at
Speaker 4: the time when he went to the academy. Actually, the
Speaker 4: sheriff from that county was one of his training officers,
Speaker 4: and I was just talking to the resource officer about it,
Speaker 4: and he said, man, he's a really nice guy. He said,
Speaker 4: you know, I think if you called him, he'd probably
Speaker 4: talked to you.
Speaker 1: So he has been he's been very nice. He's tried
Speaker 1: to help.
Speaker 4: But it's just it's interesting that there's no records even,
Speaker 4: I mean, where's the body's toward, you know what, like
Speaker 4: they were comparing dental records.
Speaker 1: The sheriff at that time knew about it. Of course
Speaker 1: he's dead now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so clearly they have to have something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so I asked him, I said, where do
Speaker 4: you think the body is? And he said he assumed
Speaker 4: that it was at the University of Tennessee Anthropology Center
Speaker 4: because that's where all those bodies went. And of course
Speaker 4: we're never going to get an answer from them about
Speaker 4: if they even have the body. And this all goes
Speaker 4: back to what a TBI detective who worked on the
Speaker 4: Redhead murders case back in the eighties told me, or
Speaker 4: Shane Waters, when we were looking into this month years
Speaker 4: ago now five six years ago. He said, there's other
Speaker 4: victims out there and you will never find them, because
Speaker 4: he said he experienced that as a detective and he said,
Speaker 4: you'll just you're.
Speaker 1: Just never gonna find them. So this is maybe just
Speaker 1: one of those examples.
Speaker 5: Let's stop here for another quick break murder one on one.
Speaker 2: I wonder if you do you have any of those
Speaker 2: students who worked on the original project who were at
Speaker 2: the university, and they can go check show up in person.
Speaker 2: I feel like that's the only way sometimes to get answers.
Speaker 4: I actually have a student who was on that that case.
Speaker 4: She might have even been interviewed for the show, but yeah,
Speaker 4: I think you did. And she's down there, and I
Speaker 4: need to reach out to her because she's down there
Speaker 4: and she's she's a she's a very confident, she's a
Speaker 4: wonderful young lady. I could just see her going down
Speaker 4: there and saying, Hey, we need to have a talk.
Speaker 2: You know, what's going on with the girls. What's going
Speaker 2: on with you since you know, since we've last chatted.
Speaker 1: So the girls are well. Riley.
Speaker 4: I think people know that she was injured over the summer,
Speaker 4: very sadly in basketball camp, so she's probably not gonna
Speaker 4: be able to play any basketball this year man and
Speaker 4: this was her senior year. You know, she was really
Speaker 4: looking forward to that. And I know that's troubling. That's
Speaker 4: that's hard on a young lady. You know, she's she's
Speaker 4: doing a lot of studies at home, she's got a
Speaker 4: lot of do enrollment classes and things like that. So
Speaker 4: but the girls are doing good, you know, and they're
Speaker 4: just their senior year and they're making good grades and
Speaker 4: they're doing all that. You know, I do have my
Speaker 4: sociology class back, and we are doing some really good work.
Speaker 4: The first part of the work was really just to
Speaker 4: look at Jerry John's and research to see, you know,
Speaker 4: if he did kill all these women, then that makes
Speaker 4: him a serial killer, and it also makes him probably
Speaker 4: an organized serial killer. And they have a for example,
Speaker 4: they have a family history, they're going to have a
Speaker 4: job history that kind of fits this this mold. And
Speaker 4: so the first part they did was we have about
Speaker 4: six detectives who are working with us and they have
Speaker 4: agreed to be kind of like mentors.
Speaker 1: To the students.
Speaker 4: And so the groups actually looked at the different parts.
Speaker 4: For example, you would have to have to be a
Speaker 4: serial coller, you have to have antisocial personality, disorder.
Speaker 1: To be an organized killer, you're going to have.
Speaker 4: A certain type of family history, you will be a narcissist,
Speaker 4: those type things. So in order to keep Jerry Johns
Speaker 4: as the prime suspect, we needed to get information back
Speaker 4: from detectives if they agreed with us that he did
Speaker 4: fit all these things he would need.
Speaker 1: To fit to be the Bible Belt strangler.
Speaker 4: And the detectives after the presentation agreed that yes, the
Speaker 4: students had found plenty of evidence to convince them that
Speaker 4: he did have antisocial personality disorder, he did have the
Speaker 4: family history of a serial killer, he did have narcissistic
Speaker 4: personality disorder, et cetera.
Speaker 1: So that was the first part.
Speaker 4: The part we're doing now because we're still working with
Speaker 4: Scott Barker, who's now the retired FBI behavior analyst, and
Speaker 4: he told us that he wanted to see the victimology,
Speaker 4: so basically, look at the victims. When you look at
Speaker 4: the victims, that should leads you to things like a timeline, geography,
Speaker 4: historical time periods, and culture. And so right now the
Speaker 4: students are going to be presenting that here in about
Speaker 4: a week or so to the detectives again to see
Speaker 4: if it does appear that the victimology would link him
Speaker 4: to all of these victims. So then the third part,
Speaker 4: which they'll be working on for like the next month,
Speaker 4: like octoberish, is we saw some cases where billboards helped
Speaker 4: solve some very cold, you know, murders, and you're probably
Speaker 4: familiar many people familiar with those. So one case in
Speaker 4: particular was a father whose daughter was killed and you know,
Speaker 4: it had gone cold, and they tried to do everything
Speaker 4: they could do. And so he actually went to a
Speaker 4: billboard company and said, let me tell you about my daughter.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you about the promise I made to her.
Speaker 4: And I told him even if the cops couldn't keep
Speaker 4: going or didn't have the resources like I was going
Speaker 4: to continue. And so he says, look, we do have
Speaker 4: a drawing of a person that we think could be involved,
Speaker 4: and maybe a vehicle.
Speaker 1: So he said, you know, could.
Speaker 4: I buy a billboard and just put the person the
Speaker 4: drawing and then maybe like this car and just see
Speaker 4: if we get any hits.
Speaker 1: And I'd like to know how much a billboard is.
Speaker 4: And so the company said, you can't buy a billboard
Speaker 4: from us, but we will donate one. And I think
Speaker 4: this case was actually like in the Midwest, like Kansas
Speaker 4: or Oklahoma or something. Can you believe the guy was
Speaker 4: living in like Connecticut or something. And somebody saw the
Speaker 4: billboard and said, hey, I think I know that guy,
Speaker 4: and sure enough they saw the case. This is kind
Speaker 4: of a famous case. The girl was killed as she
Speaker 4: worked at a swimming pool. Ali Kemp, that was her name.
Speaker 4: So Ali Kemp was the one who was who was killed.
Speaker 4: And her dad was Roger and let's see they were.
Speaker 1: She was in Kansas. She was in Kansas.
Speaker 4: So anyway, the students saw it and they said, mister Campbell,
Speaker 4: has there ever been any billboards or anything to try
Speaker 4: to help generate some interest or And I was like,
Speaker 4: you know what, far as I know, there never has been.
Speaker 4: And I said, look, I don't think that's ever been tried.
Speaker 4: And so they said, can you get us a meeting
Speaker 4: with a billboard executive or something, and so I said.
Speaker 1: Let's try it.
Speaker 4: So I reached out to a billboard company, a national
Speaker 4: billboard company who does have billboards in all the areas.
Speaker 1: Where the victims were found.
Speaker 4: And so they're going to be presenting to some executives
Speaker 4: from the billboard company and they're going to be telling.
Speaker 1: The story of their victims.
Speaker 4: So just like the father said, let me tell you
Speaker 4: a story about my daughter and what happened. What I
Speaker 4: wanted the students to learn from that was that these women,
Speaker 4: although many of them had difficult lives, and they were,
Speaker 4: you know, involved in a lifestyle at the time that
Speaker 4: obviously was difficult and maybe contributed.
Speaker 1: To the difficult situation they were being put in.
Speaker 4: They were somebody's kid, right, they were somebody's mom. They
Speaker 4: had good times in their life. This was the low
Speaker 4: point of their life, I'm sure. And so they said,
Speaker 4: mister Campbell, we would like to just present about who
Speaker 4: these women are. That although yes they might have been
Speaker 4: a runaway, or yes, they might have struggled with addiction,
Speaker 4: or yes they might have been in sex trade, these
Speaker 4: were still women. These were still children, some of them
Speaker 4: young women, and they still have people that loved them.
Speaker 4: So I said, sure, I'll call an executive and we'll
Speaker 4: get in the room and I'll let you tell them
Speaker 4: about your victims. And you know what, if they say
Speaker 4: a billboard maybe, or a reduced price on a billboard
Speaker 4: or something, we'll just see what happens.
Speaker 1: So they're gonna be telling that story to those executives
Speaker 1: here in about another month or so.
Speaker 2: I think that's a terrific idea.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'm they're excited about it. I think if
Speaker 4: one thing teenagers get, it's kind of like being judged
Speaker 4: and being I mean, you know, because you know, there's
Speaker 4: a lot of peer pressure and social media these days
Speaker 4: and friends in school, and they're judged on a lot
Speaker 4: of things looks.
Speaker 1: And hairstyle and cars and how they talk.
Speaker 4: And I think they really get that and that some
Speaker 4: of these women that they were just judged.
Speaker 1: I mean, well, the problem is they're frozen in time. Right.
Speaker 4: They were killed at the lowest point of their life,
Speaker 4: and so because of that, they never had a chance.
Speaker 1: To recover or to get out of that lifestyle and
Speaker 1: move on.
Speaker 4: So they've been frozen in this time period where they
Speaker 4: were at the low point of their life. And you know,
Speaker 4: so that's how they're always going to be remembered. For example, example,
Speaker 4: Lisa Nichols when she was killed and they identified her.
Speaker 4: This was in the eighties, and they went through the
Speaker 4: detectives and they said.
Speaker 1: Man, tell us who Lisa Nichols is.
Speaker 4: And although Lisa Nichols had children and brothers and sisters
Speaker 4: and mom and dad and all this other stuff. The
Speaker 4: guy said, oh, we know who Lisa Nichols is. She
Speaker 4: has the second longest prostitution record in the state, and
Speaker 4: that is kind of and another detective said, to say
Speaker 4: she has a drug problem is to.
Speaker 1: Say, like my car has a gas problem.
Speaker 4: So you know, the students see these things, they understand
Speaker 4: how they get labeled, and that's how they kind of
Speaker 4: continue on.
Speaker 1: But they wanted to show like the totality of the
Speaker 1: person that they were. So I'm excited about that work.
Speaker 4: And then we plan, we hope to present a case.
Speaker 4: After Riley and Marley presented to the former assistant DA
Speaker 4: and the homicide detective and stuff last spring, they really
Speaker 4: felt the case that Jerry Johns probably killed Elizabeth Lamott
Speaker 4: the Green County Jane Doo was really strong. They felt
Speaker 4: that was maybe the strongest case because of some of
Speaker 4: the evidence that we had uncovered. So I think what
Speaker 4: we're going to try to do is present that to
Speaker 4: somebody who is in charge of that prosecution. And all
Speaker 4: we can do is present the evidence we have and
Speaker 4: if they want to go back to the police and
Speaker 4: say is this true, did you.
Speaker 1: Really have that.
Speaker 4: Can we look at this again, you know, at least
Speaker 4: it's on them to do that.
Speaker 1: So maybe something in the DA's.
Speaker 4: Office, you know, in Green County that that's what we're
Speaker 4: hoping to do.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's amazing. You really got a lot done, and
Speaker 2: these kids are working on such like rewarding amazing projects.
Speaker 4: I agree, and that is so much better than me
Speaker 4: standing up here talking about it.
Speaker 5: Murder one oh one is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker,
Speaker 5: Alex Campbell, Courtney Armstrong, Andrew Arnaut, and me Jeff Shane.
Speaker 5: Additional producing by Connor Powell and Gabriel Castillo, Editing by
Speaker 5: Jeff Twa, Music by Vanikor Music. Murder one oh one
Speaker 5: is a production of iHeart Radio and Katie Studios. For
Speaker 5: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 5: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 3: This is Alex Campbell, co host of Murder one oh one.
Speaker 3: We hope you're enjoying season one. We asked that if
Speaker 3: you know anything that could help police solve these cases,
Speaker 3: that you contact the appropriate agencies with any information you
Speaker 3: feel can help with their work to bring justice to
Speaker 3: these women. And their families. But we also asked that
Speaker 3: if you feel you can help us continue to tell
Speaker 3: these stories, that you reach out to us with any
Speaker 3: of the following information. Number one, if you have any
Speaker 3: personal experiences with these victim that could help us tell
Speaker 3: their stories as real people, maybe you grew up with them,
Speaker 3: work with them, or are even related to them. If
Speaker 3: you can shed light on the investigations going back to
Speaker 3: the nineteen eighties, then maybe you worked with the cases
Speaker 3: such as a police officer, or maybe you were a
Speaker 3: witness or even a journalist, that would also be very helpful.
Speaker 3: And finally, if you have any information on our suspect,
Speaker 3: maybe you grew up with him, you were in the
Speaker 3: military with him, incarcerated with him, or maybe involved with
Speaker 3: him through law enforcement such as his jailor guard or
Speaker 3: parole officer. All those things can be helpful. We would
Speaker 3: love to hear from any of you. You can reach
Speaker 3: us at info at ktstudios dot com or message us
Speaker 3: through Instagram at KT Underscore Studios.