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Speaker 1: Like I've been thinking a lot about, you know, the

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Speaker 1: difficult decision of having to decide if you want to

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Speaker 1: take an out Ford plea, if you want to take

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Speaker 1: any kind of plea.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if I was put in that situation, would.

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Speaker 1: I stay in prison to fight for my innocence knowing

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Speaker 1: I might never get out or take a deal get

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Speaker 1: out and then you can't fight for your innocence after that.

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Speaker 3: It's a literal Sophie's choice, Maggie, right. I mean, you

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Speaker 3: have this intense pressure. You know that they have the

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Speaker 3: ability to say, hey, we're going to leave you sitting

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Speaker 3: in jail at prison for a year or two years

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Speaker 3: or more while you await your retrial. Many, many strong

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Speaker 3: willed and brave and brilliant people have taken the plea

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Speaker 3: because there's really no way out and they just want

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Speaker 3: to go home.

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Speaker 2: Want to get out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they have to go home.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I didn't comprehend that I was going to prison for

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Speaker 4: the rest of my life. I'm thinking to myself, are

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Speaker 4: you saying that I can never be with my parents again.

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Speaker 4: I can never go back to my bed, you know,

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Speaker 4: my home. So I'm losing on my friends. I mean,

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Speaker 4: all this is going to be taken. Are you kidding me.

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Speaker 5: From lava for good? This is wrongful conviction with Maggie

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Speaker 5: Freeling today. Lakwanda Fay Jacobs. On the evening of February ninth,

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Speaker 5: nineteen ninety two, Kevin Gaddy and Tony Davis were walking

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Speaker 5: down the street when a car pulled up. A man

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Speaker 5: and a woman got out and held them at gunpoint.

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Speaker 5: They demanded the jacket Kevin Gaddy was wearing. It was

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Speaker 5: a Chicago Bulls starter jacket. In the nineteen nineties, these

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Speaker 5: satin jackets were a status symbol. As Kevin was handing

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Speaker 5: his jacket over, a struggle ensued was shot in the chest.

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Speaker 5: Around the same time, Lakwanda Fay Jacobs and her mother

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Speaker 5: were on their way to church when they saw police

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Speaker 5: commotion near Fay's house.

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Speaker 2: They stopped to see what was going on.

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Speaker 5: As Faye got out of the car, an officer approached

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Speaker 5: her and asked her who she was. Fay was instantly

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Speaker 5: arrested and taken down to the police station for questioning,

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Speaker 5: but she had an alibi, and the woman they should

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Speaker 5: have been looking for was at least fifteen years older

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Speaker 5: than Fay. But it didn't matter. Fay was eventually charged

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Speaker 5: and convicted of the murder of Kevin Gaddy.

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Speaker 4: They knew all alone that I was innocent, but just

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Speaker 4: wanted to use me as an example to other young juveniles. Therefore,

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Speaker 4: I was railroaded into the system. I am Lakwanda Fae

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Speaker 4: Jacobs nineteen ninety two, arrested for capital fellowy murder of

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Speaker 4: a friend of mine.

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Speaker 5: Mkwanda Fay Jacobs was born in Little Rock, Arkansas, on

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Speaker 5: February twenty second, nineteen seventy five. She was the baby

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Speaker 5: of a big family, six boys and six girls.

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Speaker 4: I was always picked on by my older siblings, but

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Speaker 4: I consider myself stronger than my other siblings, even though

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Speaker 4: I was a baby. I come from a great family.

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Speaker 4: I was raising the church. My dad was started off

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Speaker 4: as a deacon in the church and ended up becoming

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Speaker 4: an assistant pastor. And I was deeply involved at the

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Speaker 4: age of four years old.

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Speaker 5: Facing in the church choir, and was an outgoing child

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Speaker 5: and teenager.

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Speaker 4: And I'm just a people person. That's just the type

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Speaker 4: of personality I've always had. I was a friends with

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Speaker 4: everybody from church people. I even had friends that were

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Speaker 4: gang members, you know, just a typical teenager. I had fights,

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Speaker 4: I had boyfriends, I did a lot. You know, That's

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Speaker 4: who Fey.

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Speaker 5: Was, And like many kids, she had lots of different

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Speaker 5: visions for her future.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to be a nurse. At one time, I

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Speaker 4: wanted to be a beautician because I loved doing my

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Speaker 4: doll's hair, you know, so of course I was like,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to be a beautician. My grandfather was a

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Speaker 4: barbara and my grandmother was a beautician. I even dreamed

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Speaker 4: of being in the army one day. But then later on,

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Speaker 4: as I got older in my teenage, I was like, nah,

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Speaker 4: I don't want to go do that. You know.

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Speaker 5: In high school, she played on the junior varsity volleyball team,

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Speaker 5: and she says she was incredibly popular and other students

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Speaker 5: looked up to her.

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Speaker 4: I dreamed of graduating, going to the prom, going to dance,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I could have possibly been the queen

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Speaker 4: because I was so popular. But you know, those are

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Speaker 4: things that will rob from me, that opportunity.

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Speaker 5: On the morning of February ninth, nineteen ninety two, sixteen

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Speaker 5: year old Fay got up and went to church to

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Speaker 5: attend service. It was Sunday and she had planned to

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Speaker 5: sing at two services that day. Afterward, her mother picked

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Speaker 5: her up from the house Fay rented with her brother.

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Speaker 5: They got back to Fay's mom's apartment at two pm.

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Speaker 5: Fay's friend picked her up shortly after that, and they

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Speaker 5: ran some errands, including to the laundromat and back to.

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Speaker 2: Her friend's house.

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Speaker 5: He dropped Fay back at her mom's place at around

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Speaker 5: five point thirty. Her Sunday was pretty packed.

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Speaker 4: I had another service to attend that night. My mom

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Speaker 4: and I were going to singing at another church.

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Speaker 5: Fay's MoMA wrapped home shortly after and found Fay relaxing

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Speaker 5: on the couch. Fay was still in her white church clothes,

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Speaker 5: but at the same time, over a mile away, a

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Speaker 5: situation was unfolding that would change Fay's life forever. Seventeen

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Speaker 5: year old Kevin Gaddy and his friend Tony Davis, who

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Speaker 5: was fourteen, were walking down the street when a gray

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Speaker 5: car pulled up. A man and a woman got out.

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Speaker 5: The woman had a gun and they demanded the jacket.

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Speaker 5: Kevin Gaddy was wearing a Chicago Bulls starter jacket. As

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Speaker 5: Kevin was handing it over, he put his hand in

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Speaker 5: his coat pocket to get his brush. That's when things

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Speaker 5: got messy and the woman shot Kevin in the chest.

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Speaker 5: On their way to their second church event of the day,

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Speaker 5: Fay and her mom passed the crime scene right outside

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Speaker 5: Fay's house, so they stopped to see what was going on.

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Speaker 5: As Fay got out of the car, a police officer

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Speaker 5: grabbed her.

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Speaker 4: And I was instantly through on the car put in handcuffs.

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Speaker 4: At this time, I didn't know that a shooting had occurred.

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Speaker 4: I was already hancussed. Once I said who I was

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Speaker 4: and that I lived there too as well, at the

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Speaker 4: house that they were at. I was put in the

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Speaker 4: back seat of the car and taken to the Little

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Speaker 4: Rock police apartment. Not knowing what is going.

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Speaker 2: On at the precinct.

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Speaker 5: The police asked Faye if they could do a gun

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Speaker 5: shot residue test on.

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Speaker 4: Her, and so after my gun residue was negative, they

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Speaker 4: was like, well, we're gonna let her go home, you know.

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Speaker 4: And he's like, if you hear anything about a shooting,

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Speaker 4: let us know, And I was like, who shot? What

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Speaker 4: is going on?

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Speaker 5: It wasn't until days later that Fay learned it was

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Speaker 5: her friend Kevin, who was shot and killed outside of

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Speaker 5: her house.

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Speaker 4: Kevin and I were both the same age, but he

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Speaker 4: was a few months older than me, and he was

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Speaker 4: real known for his scooter and his skills with basketball.

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Speaker 4: I always, even as a kid, I used to say,

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Speaker 4: you're gonna go big, Kevin, you know, because he was

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Speaker 4: so good at basketball, you know. But like I said,

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Speaker 4: from kindergarten to seventh grade, him and I went to

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Speaker 4: school together.

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Speaker 2: Kevin was pronounced dead less than an hour after he

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Speaker 2: was shot.

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Speaker 4: And it was so unbelievable because I knew he was

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Speaker 4: such a good kid, He was a good friend, and

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Speaker 4: it was just very devastating to learn that he had

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Speaker 4: been shot.

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Speaker 5: During their investigation into Kevin's murder, police found at least

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Speaker 5: eight eyewitnesses who saw the shooting. The descriptions of the

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Speaker 5: woman who fired the gun varied, but most agreed she

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Speaker 5: was in her thirties with scars under her eyes, and

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Speaker 5: that she was wearing dark clothing, including a black hat.

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Speaker 5: Tony Davis was the eyewitness closest to the shooting, and

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Speaker 5: on that very day described the woman as quote black,

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Speaker 5: mid thirties, approximately five foot eight, heavy build, medium complex,

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Speaker 5: wearing a dark ski cap and bluish gray jacket and pants.

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Speaker 2: With frizzy hair. Yet Fay, a young teenager.

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Speaker 5: Wearing entirely different clothing, had already been to the police

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Speaker 5: station and been questioned. So investigators had her photo and

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Speaker 5: showed it to witnesses. Five of them said Faye was

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Speaker 5: not the shooter. Tony Davis was shown a picture of

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Speaker 5: Fay and two times, once on the day of the

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Speaker 5: crime and again four days later. He was unable to

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Speaker 5: make an identification. But then nine days after the shooting,

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Speaker 5: the police brought him back in and again they showed

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Speaker 5: him a photo lineup, and this time he identified Fay

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Speaker 5: as the shooter. They had absolutely no idea what was

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Speaker 5: going on.

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Speaker 4: I was going to school and this day I wasn't

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Speaker 4: feeling will and I was at my sister's house and

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Speaker 4: my mom called my sister and said, the police has

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Speaker 4: come to my job looking for for murder. And I

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Speaker 4: was like, murder. I haven't killed anybody. And so my

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Speaker 4: mom came to my sister house. We called my dad,

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Speaker 4: we called my pastor, and we went to the police

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Speaker 4: station just to clear my name, you know, to tell

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Speaker 4: them I haven't did anything, you know, I mean when

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Speaker 4: I tell you, I had no clue that I was

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Speaker 4: even a suspect, and you know, and that could be what.

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Speaker 4: I was so young, but I didn't commit the crime,

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Speaker 4: so why would I even think that I'm a suspect.

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Speaker 4: I had no knowledge of it. And so we went

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Speaker 4: to the jail to clear my name, and at that

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Speaker 4: time they arrested me. They did not allow me to

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Speaker 4: clear my name. They arrested me and charged me with

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Speaker 4: capital felity murder and set my bun at one million dollars. Okay,

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Speaker 4: I'm sixteen, and I'm like, I had never been to

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Speaker 4: jail before in my life, and so I am scared.

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Speaker 4: I'm very scared.

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Speaker 5: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.

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Speaker 5: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making

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Speaker 5: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and

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Speaker 5: in the communities where we work and live. In light

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Speaker 5: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and

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Speaker 5: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform,

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Speaker 5: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and

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Speaker 5: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. Before trial, Fay

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Speaker 5: was appointed public defender James Kluet to represent her. At

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Speaker 5: the time of his appointment, Kluever's representing a client by

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Speaker 5: the name of Sean Riggins. As it happens, Riggins and

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Speaker 5: his brother had been among the witnesses on the street

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Speaker 5: when Kevin was murdered. Two weeks later, Riggins was arrested

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Speaker 5: for an unrelated crime. At that time, he ended up

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Speaker 5: telling police that he'd seen the shooter and that she

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Speaker 5: was actually younger than thirty, closer to fifteen or sixteen.

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Speaker 5: He was the only person to say that, and when

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Speaker 5: investigator showed him a photo spread of suspects, he identified

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Speaker 5: Faye as the shooter. Now this part gets a little confusing,

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Speaker 5: so follow carefully. Not only as Faye's attorney James Cluett

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Speaker 5: representing two clients involved in the same case, a clear

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Speaker 5: conflict of interest, but he also asked Faye to lie

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Speaker 5: for Shawn Riggins. Faye was in jail with a woman

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Speaker 5: named Bertie Walker, one of Riggins's co defendants in another case.

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Speaker 5: Cluette approached Fay with an offer. He asked her to

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Speaker 5: say that Bertie had told her she committed the crime alone.

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Speaker 5: In exchange, he said Riggins would not testify against Faye

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Speaker 5: about Kevin's murder, but favor rejected the offer, She refused

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Speaker 5: to lie and asked for a new lawyer. She was

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Speaker 5: appointed attorney Bill MacArthur. James Kluette was eventually disbarred for

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Speaker 5: separate issues. Fay's trial started a year later in April

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Speaker 5: nineteen ninety three. A man named Clifton Thomas was originally

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Speaker 5: charged with Faye as her alleged accomplice, but the charges

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Speaker 5: against him were eventually dropped.

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Speaker 4: So I'm going to court and I'm like, are you serious?

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Speaker 4: I can't believe this. Why are they doing this to me?

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Speaker 4: And the judge keeps my bond at a million and

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Speaker 4: he states we're charging her as an adult. I couldn't

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Speaker 4: believe that this was happening.

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Speaker 5: Prosecutors Howard Coopman and John Miller presented no forensic evidence

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Speaker 5: linking Faye to the crime. They relied heavily on the

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Speaker 5: eyewitness statements of Tony Davis, who was with Kevin that evening,

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Speaker 5: and Sean Riggins. When fegoes to court, news media is everywhere.

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Speaker 5: She says the case was high profile because of a

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Speaker 5: slew of killings of young people in Arkansas at the time.

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Speaker 4: Arkansas was on the rise of gang violence. Back in

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Speaker 4: the late eighties early nineties, and so of course law

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Speaker 4: enforcements was forced to do something about those crimes. So

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Speaker 4: they had a thing called Banging in Arkansas. It was

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Speaker 4: like the Arkansas was like a small Los Angeles with

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Speaker 4: the crips and the bloods, and they had videos and

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Speaker 4: they still had these videos. You can pull them up

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Speaker 4: on YouTube called Banging in Arkansas.

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Speaker 5: So I did this is the county corner for Little Rock,

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Speaker 5: Arkansas on one of the films.

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Speaker 6: Several years ago, when I saw the death rate was increasing,

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Speaker 6: but the victims were becoming much younger and younger, and

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Speaker 6: began to see tattoos and brands on the victims, and

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Speaker 6: began to notice that the violence just was increasing, and

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Speaker 6: drive by shooting and random shootings and retaliation killings, and

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Speaker 6: it just went on and on. Until nineteen ninety two,

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Speaker 6: we had a record rate of homicides in Little Rock,

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Speaker 6: and it looks we've broken the record in nineteen ninety three,

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Speaker 6: and it's just gone on and on and on.

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Speaker 5: In fact, a half hour earlier and a few blocks

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Speaker 5: away from Kevin Gaddy's murder, there was another potentially related

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Speaker 5: crime Around five pm. Little Rock Police Department responded to

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Speaker 5: an aggravated assault where eyewitnesses told police there was a

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Speaker 5: female perpetrator, a male accomplice, and guess what a gray car.

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Speaker 5: It's unclear what happened with that case and something else

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Speaker 5: related to this crime. To help you understand, starting in

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Speaker 5: the late eighties, sports starter jackets were a hot commodity.

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Speaker 5: An article in The New York Times from February of

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Speaker 5: nineteen ninety discusses the phenomenon, calling it quote an increasingly

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Speaker 5: pervasive kind of urban crime by young people willing to

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Speaker 5: kill for clothes end quote. They cite that at the

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Speaker 5: time these jackets went from ninety to two hundred dollars,

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Speaker 5: which today would be about two hundred to four hundred dollars,

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Speaker 5: So Kevin Gaddy becoming a target for his jacket that

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Speaker 5: night was not necessarily unusual at the time. However, Fay's

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Speaker 5: attorney failed at making a case that Fay was caught

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Speaker 5: in the wrong place at the wrong time and that

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Speaker 5: she did not commit the crime. Faye was able to

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Speaker 5: testify on her own behalf, however, and she tried to

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Speaker 5: make the case for herself that she did not kill

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Speaker 5: her friend.

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Speaker 4: In my little mind, I'm thinking that you know, as

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Speaker 4: soon as I go to court, I can just tell

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Speaker 4: the judge that I didn't do this, and you see,

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Speaker 4: and I'll go home. But the reality, that's not how

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Speaker 4: it works, you know. But I didn't know that. I

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Speaker 4: really believe that I was going to get out of there.

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Speaker 5: On April twenty first, nineteen ninety three, Faye was convicted

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Speaker 5: of capital murder and sentenced to life without parole.

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Speaker 2: She was just sixteen years old.

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Speaker 4: I didn't I didn't comprehend that I was going to

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Speaker 4: prison for the rest of my life. You know. It

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Speaker 4: was until I got back to the jail that the

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Speaker 4: jailer told me, you know, you're not going to ever

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Speaker 4: get out. You know, you're going to jail, you know.

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Speaker 4: And so I was broken inside, you know, had been

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Speaker 4: ripped apart. You know. Are you telling me? I'm thinking

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Speaker 4: to myself, are you saying that I can never be

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Speaker 4: with my parents again. I can never go back to

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Speaker 4: my bed, you know, my home. So I'm losing all

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Speaker 4: my friends. I mean, all this is going to be taken.

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Speaker 4: Are you kidding me?

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Speaker 5: Fay's world had turned completely upside down.

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Speaker 4: I had many days of crying. So when I was

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Speaker 4: first put in, I was put in a cell all

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Speaker 4: by myself because I was sixteen. But days later I

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Speaker 4: was sent to an adult place because I was charged

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Speaker 4: as an adult, and so of course I had adults

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Speaker 4: tunt me and bothered me. I had even got jumped

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Speaker 4: on it in the county jail, you know, because of

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Speaker 4: this high profile. And that's the juvenile that killed the

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Speaker 4: guy for his jacket, you know, that's how it was labeled.

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Speaker 4: And so I would go to my room, I would cry.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't let people see me cry because if they

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Speaker 4: saw that, that a show a sign a weakness, and

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Speaker 4: they would really take advantage of you and do things.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I was very scared.

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Speaker 5: Eventually, Face settled into the prison environment, and just like

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Speaker 5: in high school, her outgoing personality and love of people

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Speaker 5: got her through. By the time she had been there

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Speaker 5: for several years, she had started making a name for

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Speaker 5: herself as a generous person to those coming into the system.

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Speaker 4: And so a lot of ladies come in there and

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Speaker 4: they don't have the headphones and things like that, so

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Speaker 4: I always had extra so I can share with the

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Speaker 4: other ladies, you know.

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Speaker 2: In two thousand and nine, Tiffany Woods came to prison.

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Speaker 7: I was incarcerated for Dwis. So they had moved me

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Speaker 7: in the barracks with f A. And in order to

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Speaker 7: watch TV, you have to have a radio. Well, I

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Speaker 7: didn't have any family outside, you know, to actually send

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Speaker 7: me any money to buy me a radio. So I've

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Speaker 7: seen Faye just all bubbly playing games and stuff, and

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Speaker 7: I was like, excuse me, ma'am, can I borrow your radio?

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Speaker 7: And so she was like, yeah, it's over there on

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Speaker 7: my bed. So that started our friendship.

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Speaker 5: Faye and Tiffany hit it off, and when Tiffany got out,

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Speaker 5: she promised Fae she would write her.

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Speaker 4: You know, being in prison, you meet people and people

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Speaker 4: tell I'm going to write you. I'm going to support you,

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Speaker 4: you know, all the way, and so you hear that

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Speaker 4: all the time, and I have been let down so

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Speaker 4: many times. Well with Tiffany, Tiffany left and she wrote

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Speaker 4: me and I was like, oh my god, this girl

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Speaker 4: really wrote me. And then she sent me a phone

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Speaker 4: number and said I could call her. And I could

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Speaker 4: not believe it because that was something that had never

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Speaker 4: happened throughout my whole incoserration to be able to have

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Speaker 4: contact with another resident that had once been there.

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Speaker 7: A small loyalty.

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Speaker 2: If I tell you I'm going to do something, I'm going.

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Speaker 4: To do it.

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Speaker 5: Tiffany and Fey maintained their friendship over the years, all

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Speaker 5: the while Fay fought for her innocence. She filed appeal

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Speaker 5: after appeal after appeal for reasons including in effective assistance

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Speaker 5: of counsel face As her second attorney, Bill MacArthur, failed

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Speaker 5: to meet with her before trial and failed to file

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Speaker 5: any discover for emotions or conduct an investigation. He failed

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Speaker 5: to show why Fay could not have committed this crime,

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Speaker 5: starting with the description of the shooter. The shooter, according

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Speaker 5: to Tony Davis's testimony at the trial, was a black

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Speaker 5: woman with scars under her eyes and light brownish red

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Speaker 5: curly hair peeking out of a black hat, and she

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Speaker 5: was wearing a big winter coat and pants. This description

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Speaker 5: does not fit Fait at all. She had no scars

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Speaker 5: under her eyes, was wearing white church clothes, and her

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Speaker 5: hair was in a top knot.

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Speaker 8: For folks who were very familiar with black hair African

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Speaker 8: American hair, she couldn't have gotten her hair up into

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Speaker 8: this very smooth, beautiful top knot if it had been

365
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Speaker 8: a red curly dew under a cap just hours earlier.

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Speaker 5: Right, this is Trisha Bushnell. She's the executive director of

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Speaker 5: the Midwest Innocence Project known as the MIP.

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Speaker 8: But none of those things ever come out, none of

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Speaker 8: those things are ever investigated or brought to the jury's attention.

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Speaker 8: You know, when you look at face case and you

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Speaker 8: look at the evidence, you can really just think there's

372
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Speaker 8: really no good evidence here, right, You can look at

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Speaker 8: it and say, there's no good evidence. So how does

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Speaker 8: she get convicted? Well, part of it is it's just racism,

375
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Speaker 8: pir and simple, right, But you have a system that

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Speaker 8: has a young black girl up there and the state

377
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Speaker 8: is saying she did it, and what does that read

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Speaker 8: like to jurors?

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Speaker 5: The bias appears to have started with the cops who

380
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Speaker 5: arrested Fay on the spot, and Fay feels strongly that

381
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Speaker 5: there was racial profiling involved. Trisha is currently Phase attorney.

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Speaker 5: The MIP took Phase case in twenty fourteen when they

383
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Speaker 5: reviewed it and realized it's stunk of a wrongful conviction.

384
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Speaker 8: So there's actually were a lot of witnesses to this crime.

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Speaker 8: And when we went and talked to people, five other

386
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Speaker 8: people who actually also knew Fay, So it was not her,

387
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Speaker 8: including Shawn Riggins's brother who was standing with him at

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Speaker 8: the car and said we couldn't see anything from where

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Speaker 8: we were at the car.

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Speaker 5: Shawn Riggins, remember, had told police that Faye was the shooter,

391
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Speaker 5: but he ultimately did recant his identification.

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Speaker 8: And that was the basis of few evidence that we

393
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Speaker 8: used when we filed a federal habeas petition asking them

394
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Speaker 8: to overturn face conviction.

395
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Speaker 2: Filed that in twenty eighteen.

396
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Speaker 5: The MIP also brought up in the appeal the four

397
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Speaker 5: additional eyewitnesses who said the shooter was not Fay and

398
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Speaker 5: who were never called to testify at trial. However, before

399
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 5: a judge could respond to the petition, there was a

400
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 5: new development. In twenty twelve, the United States Supreme Court

401
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 5: ruled in Miller Verse, Alabama, that juveniles cannot be sentenced

402
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 5: to mandatory life without parole like they was. Those who

403
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 5: have received this sentence are entitled to a re sentencing hearing.

404
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 5: But Fay had a difficult decision to make. If she

405
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 5: was resentenced and released based on the time she had

406
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 5: already served, she could not fight her innocence claim. And remember,

407
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 5: there were two people involved in the crime, a man

408
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 5: and a woman and a man was originally charged with Fay.

409
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Speaker 8: And we know in the co defendants case, when his

410
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,719
Speaker 8: attorney asked for discovery, they dropped the charges. So we

411
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 8: wanted to know what was it, specifically from the crime lab.

412
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 8: And rather than giving us that, they gade an offer

413
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 8: of time served. And that is when Fay then had

414
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,719
Speaker 8: to make a really difficult and horrific choice of you know,

415
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 8: do I want to keep pursuing my innocence claim in

416
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Speaker 8: this federal court.

417
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Speaker 5: If she did, she could lose the deal to be

418
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 5: released based on time served. So she had to choose

419
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 5: accept this chance to be free, knowing she would remain

420
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 5: a felon or stay in prison and continue the potentially

421
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 5: never ending fight for her own exoneration. On July sixteenth,

422
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 5: twenty eighteen, they accepted the time served offer and walked

423
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Speaker 5: out of prison.

424
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Speaker 4: To walk out of those gates. Oh, it was such

425
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 4: a release that I was like, oh my god, I

426
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 4: am out. Oh. Yet I had some emotions because I

427
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 4: thought about the ones that I was leaving behind, and

428
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 4: that was the life that I knew because I'd been

429
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 4: there for over twenty summers. So you know, I had

430
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 4: these mixed emotions. Yet I was so happy to be

431
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 4: home with those that had been fighting to get me

432
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 4: out and be around people other people.

433
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Speaker 2: One of those people was Tiffany.

434
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Speaker 4: She was gone ten years before I ever got out,

435
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 4: But that whole ten years she was out, she constantly

436
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 4: rode me, send me money, just was there for me faithfully,

437
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 4: And that was something that I had never in my

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00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 4: life experience. I had no one to be so genuine, authentic.

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00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 4: It was just unbelievable. I was like, they don't make

440
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 4: people like they make Tiffany anymore.

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00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 5: Tiffany and Fay's relationship developed into a romantic one. These days,

442
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 5: they traveled back and forth to see each other. Fay

443
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,959
Speaker 5: lives in Kansas City, Missouri, and Tiffany out in rural Huntsville, Arkansas.

444
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 7: I am country. I would rather to be in the

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00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 7: woods than the city.

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00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 4: Do you bring her to the woods, Yes.

447
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 7: As much as possible, But and then she takes me

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00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 7: to the city, Like, we have a fishing trip planned

449
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 7: here pretty soon, so I want to have to go

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00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 7: get our tent.

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00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 5: Wow, how's how's being in the woods house camping?

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00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 8: I don't picture you as a camper.

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00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 2: I am not.

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00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 4: I am not. That's her and so where she lives, Huntsville,

455
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 4: population seventy five. She's been there all her life. I

456
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 4: don't think I would ever live in a country town like.

457
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 5: I wish see your face right now.

458
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 4: But uh yeah, hopefully in the future Tiffany and I could.

459
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 4: We would live together and have our fur babies and

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00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 4: the babies that you know that I desire to have it.

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00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 4: We could be a big family.

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00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 5: They and Tiffany hope to have a family someday. But

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00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 5: since Dave was resentenced and released, her conviction still stands,

464
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 5: so she's technically still a convicted felon.

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00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 4: Because of this felony, I cannot adopt, which is heartbreaking.

466
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 4: Yet I'm hoping to maybe possibly have a surrogate, so

467
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 4: that's to go, and if not, my niece hopefully they

468
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 4: can have babies for me something like that. And I

469
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 4: also have three amazing babies. They are two Snauzers and

470
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 4: one tiny teacup Chihuahua that are my babies.

471
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 5: But as of adopting, life has been hard with the

472
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 5: label convicted felon attached to her, even with the support

473
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 5: of the MIP.

474
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 4: When I do go for interviews or go to apply,

475
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 4: I'm given a letter that you know, she's actually innocent

476
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 4: of this crime, yet we're still fighting to clear her name,

477
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 4: and so it helps in some aspects. But I've been

478
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 4: denied Howsen in spite of the letter. So sometimes it

479
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 4: does and sometimes it doesn't.

480
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 5: Fay currently works as a receptionist for Chevrolet in Kansas City.

481
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 5: She also advocates for other wrongfully incarcerated people and is

482
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 5: on the board of an organization which helps formally incarcerated

483
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 5: women returning to society. Fay's only shot at exoneration is

484
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 5: now clemency, and her first clemency petition from Arkansas Governor

485
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 5: Asa Hutchinson was denied. She cannot apply again for another

486
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 5: eight years.

487
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 4: You know, I'm just so happy to be free. Yet

488
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 4: I'm physically free, but I'm not free.

489
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 5: If you want to help Fay, go to change dot

490
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 5: org and type in Faye Jacobs to ask Governor Asa

491
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 5: Hutchinson to pardon Faye.

492
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 2: Next time.

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00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 5: On wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling Hank Skinner, I'm.

494
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 8: Sitting there looking at that gurney and if you're fixing

495
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 8: to put me on, and I could see it through

496
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 8: the door, the handed door open, I could see the microphone.

497
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: I could see the straps.

498
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 6: Arm boards, and how was absolutely convinced that I was

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00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,239
Speaker 6: fixing it now.

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00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 5: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.

501
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 5: Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the

502
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 5: links in our bio to see how you can help.

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00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 5: I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm and

504
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 5: Kevin Wurtis, as well as our senior producer Annie Chelsea,

505
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 5: researcher Lila Robinson, story editor Sonya Paul, with additional production

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00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 5: by Jeff Cliburn and Connor Hall. The music in this

507
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 5: production is by three the time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

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00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 5: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,

509
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 5: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at

510
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 5: Wrongful Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On

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00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 5: all three platforms, You can also follow me on both

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00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 5: Instagram and Twitter at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie

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00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 5: Freeling is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in

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00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 5: association with Signal Company Number one