WEBVTT - Civic Cipher 112021 Are Dogs Better Protected by Law than Black People? (Part A) 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:04.400 Welcome to another episode of Civic Scipher. Iamy host Rams's Jack. 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:09.920 And I am the other host. Uh, Quentin, that's what. 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:13.320 We're gonna go with this week, Just Quentin Quentin growing 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:14.120 up with your government. 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:17.439 Yeah, I got a lot of I got a lot 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:20.599 on my mind right now, bro, So I couldn't get 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.680 my I can't even I can't even get my normal 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.279 intro off everything. 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.160 You're not cool, that's all right. Well, listen about. 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.680 As upset as I've been in a very long time, 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:35.120 and I'm trying to keep a at least some sort 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:40.320 of smile on my face, so I don't fully allow 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.800 myself to kind of slip into just feeling negative today. 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:48.559 I appreciate that, but you do understand that, you know, 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.360 sometimes when you're dealing with it, my job is to 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:55.280 be a little stronger because I know you're always stronger 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:55.920 when I'm going. 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:56.280 Through it too. 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:58.760 So this is the space for it, and we're gonna 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:01.680 have our therapy today. We got a lot of important 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:06.000 things to talk about. Some are encouraging and some are 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.479 naturally a bit disheartening, but you know, all of it 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:11.640 together is the reality that we have to deal with. 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.759 So if you're tuning in, be sure to stick around. 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:19.679 We're going to be talking about a civil suit that 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:26.440 is moving forward against a police officer who shot and 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:32.360 killed Oh shot. I believe the dog survived a dog, 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:37.080 and obviously there's some natural comparisons we have to make there. 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:40.399 And then a little later in the show, we're going 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:46.280 to talk about the eroding support for the BLM movement. 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:49.480 I don't want to alarm anyone because it's not eroded, 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.040 but it certainly has waned a bit, and that's the 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:54.400 reality of the situation. We have to deal with it, 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.920 and we will, and plenty of other things to stick 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:02.000 around for as well. But first, like we always do 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.480 at this time, we are going to talk about some 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:12.880 Ebony excellence. So this week I'm really proud of this 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:20.320 young lady got a story from a woman named Aaron Jackson. 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.160 She took first place in the women's five hundred in 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:31.840 Toamasao Mazowiecki, Poland, the first stop of the speed skating 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:34.600 World Cup season. In the process, she became the first 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.280 black woman to win a World Cup. She beat out 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:42.560 Japan's defending twenty eighteen Olympic champion now Kodiara by zero 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:47.200 point one three seconds. The competing field also included all 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.399 three of the medalists who competed at the World Championships 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.600 in February twenty twenty one, and event Jackson did not 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:58.560 compete in. According to the Associated Press, prior to her 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:04.400 win on Friday last Friday, her previous best World Cup 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:05.560 finish was in the ninth place. 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.040 She told the. 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:11.480 Dutch broadcaster INOS that her win was a big surprise, 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.440 adding I was hoping to be in podium position and 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:19.920 she is also dreaming of Olympic gold. But pronounce anyone's game, 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:26.400 and she has been celebrated online by lots of folks, 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:29.919 and of course there's lots to celebrate there. Anytime someone 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:34.079 you know takes center stage in a sport that's not 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:38.160 known to be associated with, you know, their race, or 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:40.520 their culture or whatever like that, it certainly news worthy. 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:41.720 But around here. 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.360 We also understand there's a lot of behind the scenes 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:49.240 stuff that folks tend to endure. Think black person in 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.400 an event based in snow, and so for us it's 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.680 a little bit more special to acknowledge that ebony excellence 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:59.120 because we know that oftentimes it's not as easy as 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.400 I just made it. Of the podium sometimes there's a 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:04.160 lot of nights where you have to really deal with 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.480 your identity and a lot of backlash for being simply 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:10.760 who you are. So once again, shout out to Aaron 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:21.039 Jackson this week's of any Excellence. Now, I have on 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:26.159 this show made comparisons to. 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:29.479 Dogs before. 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:38.200 I have made comparison comparisons to white, blonde haired young 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:39.080 women before. 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:39.920 In terms of. 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:45.040 If justice is really blind, this person should be treated 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:50.560 the same way as a blonde haired, white, you know, 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.800 attractive woman. You know, justice should be blind and not 0:04:54.400 --> 0:05:00.240 distinguished between persons, and we've found that that is not 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:04.960 often the case according to our view of the world. 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:08.960 A mode arbery, you know, had he been a white woman, 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.000 you know, he might not have been chased in a 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.120 truck and gunned down by people trying to take the 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.480 law into their own hands. And you know, you can 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:19.640 take that comparison and apply it to pretty much every story. 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.919 And you see that black people are treated differently by 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:29.520 either those with authority or those who feel like they 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.520 have some authority over black bodies and how black bodies 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:39.360 should move in time and space. But the one about dogs, 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:48.719 that comparison doesn't come up until we're talking about a 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:55.719 different like like violence specifically, not necessarily the treatment or 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:59.920 the interactions or you know, the assumed guilt or whatever, 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:04.560 but the actual treatment of the physical being right, and 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:09.760 the idea there is to suggest that with respect to 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:15.000 public outcry, and certainly prior to twenty twenty, because this 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.240 isn't something, this isn't a new comparison for me. I've 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.320 been on this hill. This is the one I'll die on. 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:25.359 You know, I noticed a long time ago that if 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:31.280 people mistreat cats, dogs, you know, whatever, you know, there's 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:35.800 oftentimes a public outcry, certainly if it's on video. Because 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:42.080 I couldn't tell you why, because I'm not a white person, 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:49.960 but I would imagine that oftentimes my white brothers and sisters, 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:55.560 who perhaps don't interact with black folks as often as 0:06:55.880 --> 0:07:00.200 people who live in cities, do you know, they maybe 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.240 have a relationship with dogs a little bit more differently 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:05.560 or I don't know, I don't know what it is. 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:09.040 But the thing that always surprised me is that in 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.480 these videos, in these videos where we're seeing people get 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.160 stomped out by the police or beaten or shot or 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:19.640 whatever the case is, especially when they pose no real threat, 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.440 you know, it's it's ready fire aim. We did a 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.480 couple episodes ago about that ready fire aim mentality found 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:36.480 in a lot of police interactions that those white folks 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.320 the Middle America, white folks who perhaps don't interact with 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.840 a lot of black people. They the surprising part is 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:48.800 that they maybe it just doesn't feel like they relate 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.440 to the videos. They see the human part of the videos, 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.200 and they relate more to a video of someone abusing 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.360 a dog. And that's why you get that outcry and 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:02.640 that that outrage, and so make that comparison often. I 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:07.160 believe it often challenges my white brothers and sisters who 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:14.960 you know, have difficulty connecting, you know, right and wrong, 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:19.640 to the right and wrong things, or that want a victim, blame. 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:21.680 Or whatever the case is, whatever they're. 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:25.080 Dealing with, in that moment, it stops them and has 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:29.520 them challenge their own prejudices. Would this be okay if 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:30.920 the officer did this to a dog? 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:32.440 Yes? 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:32.679 Or no? 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:34.880 Those are your only two options? Is the answer? 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:35.040 No? 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.120 Then why is it okay for an officer to do 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:40.199 this to a human being? Is it because this human 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.280 being is black? Let's ask the question differently. If this 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.920 was a white woman, who was pretty and was nineteen 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.840 years old. Would this be okay for the officer to 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:51.079 do this to that woman? 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:52.480 Is the answer? Still? 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.199 Now, now you're what you're doing is coming to terms 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.880 with your actual prejudices, right, And so this is why 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:01.280 these questions have always been very important, and whenever I've 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:06.520 been on the radio and having to ask questions that 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:10.840 really compel those folks on the fringes to really consider 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:15.120 their biases and really come to terms with their prejudices 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:20.440 and their racism. And you know, people have had a 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:22.640 tough time with that one over the years because no 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:24.280 one wants to be called racist, and I think a 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:26.040 lot of folks in their heart of hearts don't really 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:26.760 feel that way. 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.600 But where is the outcry? Where is the reaction? You know? 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:34.960 You know, I had a conversation with a close friend 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.920 once upon a time who it was about the Amad 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:41.720 Aubrey case where you know, he walked into a house. 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:43.960 This is the way the story goes, according to my memory. 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:45.760 These aren't in my notes right now, so forgive me 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:50.320 if it's not entirely accurate. But amd Aubrey walks into 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:54.400 a house that's being constructed, takes a look around, walks out, 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.800 goes on his merried way and gets followed by some 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:00.880 folks in the truck. You know, a little bit of 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.559 a struggle ensues. They put a shotgun out, shooting me 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:08.600 guys in the street. And had that been you know, 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.040 the the nineteen year older, twenty six year old, pretty 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.040 blond haired, white female snooping through the house just to 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.480 check out what's going on. Does she end up in 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:20.000 that same situation? Right, So, the conversation I was having 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:23.439 with my friend, he said, well, that guy shouldn't have 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.600 been in that house. It wasn't his property. Obviously, if 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.440 you're in there, you're up to no good. And you know, 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.640 he had all these like this victim blaming mentality. Again, 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:35.240 a good friend of mine, and he if you're in 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.120 case you're wondering, he is a white male, a little 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:41.079 bit older than me, but he's married to a black 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:45.600 woman and as a result, has black children, lives a 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:49.640 very multicultural life. He's surrounded by different types of people 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:51.160 all the time. I believe him to be a very 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:54.920 loving man, a very dear friend of mine, and I 0:10:55.000 --> 0:11:01.280 had to reframe the problem for him in the same way. 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.000 And then I told him something that I still believed 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:05.920 to be true because he knows me, he loves me. 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:07.839 I said, once upon a time I built the house 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:11.040 in a city. Have built the house from scratch, and 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.600 I was interested in the construction. You know, I paid 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.320 for the house and the builders were building it. Let 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:18.439 me be clear, But I would go and visit my 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:22.120 plot of land and check it out. It was the 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.000 coolest thing to me. I wanted to know what was 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.480 inside of the walls. So oftentimes I'd be out in 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:29.920 a field for everyone to see, looking at the cement 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.240 that was poured that would go underneath the tile that 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:38.160 I ordered, you know, And it just fascinated me to 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:42.800 observe this process. And if I had lost my life 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:44.800 in much the same way that a Mod Aubrey lost 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.640 his life, would you be upset about that? And the 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.319 thing is, we can't Ahmad Aubrey's dead. He can't tell 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:51.880 his version of the story. Why were you in the house? 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:52.680 Were you checking it out? 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:53.080 You know? 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.160 Obviously we saw that he wasn't stealing anything. Furthermore, what 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:57.360 do you steal from a house? 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:58.080 What harm do you? 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.080 Cause he was on a jog, he stopped it, and 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.200 that's the gate somebody thought was cool went on about 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:02.760 his business. 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.280 This is the way the story came back. You know. 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:09.040 The trial still going on as of this recording, so 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:15.959 we'll see what happens. But in any event, making these 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:23.240 comparisons I think is very important today's story. What it 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:29.200 does is it shows why these comparisons are necessary. So 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:35.840 allow me to read. My sources come from the Nation, 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:36.839 dot Com and the. 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:37.439 New York Post. 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:41.480 By the way, US Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit, 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:45.320 which by the way covers Minnesota, Missouri, and others, issued 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.520 a ruling that pierced the veil of qualified immunity and 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.559 allowed a lawsuit to go forward against a police officer 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.920 that shot two dogs. The facts of the case are 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:59.120 not in dispute. In twenty seventeen, Minneapolis police responded to 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.160 a house along those acts incidentally set off at the 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:05.160 home of Jennifer LeMay. One of her kids had tripped 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.880 the alarm by mistake, and when the home security company 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:09.600 called Lamay told him the council of the alert, the 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:11.680 cops were already on the way. One officer went to 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:13.240 the front of the house and was met by one 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.600 of Lamay's kids, who told the officer there was no problem, 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.280 but a different cop, Officer Michael Mays, went around the 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:22.720 back of the house, scaled a privacy fence, and ended 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.880 up in the backyard. There, the cop was greeted by 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:32.000 LeMay's service dogs, Saraq and Rocco. Now that with a 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.640 dog named Sarah, I feel like I have to tell 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.480 you that LeMay was a white woman. She just named 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:43.199 her dog Sarak. But but uh, she might have a 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.680 little bit of culture, because that's that's awesome to me. 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.880 That's so funny. Anyway, Uh, the officer and a lot of. 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:51.480 Bit of she got a lot of bit of culture. 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.960 She named her dogs, right, So anyway, you did that 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.800 for the temple one time. But uh so both of 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:04.040 the were five year old American Staffordshire Terriers. I'm not 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.360 a dog person. I don't know what that means. Mays says. 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:13.000 Sarrac quote charged him, but his body camera footage shows 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:17.760 the dog walking toward him, wagging his tail. Mays backs up, 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:22.280 Sarraq keeps approaching, and Mays shoots the dog in the face. 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.720 There is a video. I don't recommend you watch it. 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.640 Sarak runs away, but at that point Rocco moves toward 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:36.800 Mays again. In a friendly tail wagging manner. Mays then 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:42.360 shoots Rocco multiple times. Both dog lives. Both dogs lived 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.560 and are still going to go to heaven, but at 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:51.360 a much later date, hopefully. The Eighth Circuit Court ruled 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.400 that Mays was not entitled to qualified immunity because he 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.480 did not face imminent danger. Now that's a big deal, 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:03.200 because qualified immunity I read online. I don't know how 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.000 true it is. I only try to pull from reputable sources, 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.200 and if I don't, then I will say that. But 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.200 I read online. There's like a police union dot com 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.120 website or something like that that the police union was 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:16.880 really trying to ensure that this officer could continue to 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.520 hide behind qualified immunity and trying to reframe the narrative 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.880 that the dog was growling or something like that to 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.040 justify the officer's fear and shooting the dog. They were 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.200 really trying to protect this officer. But the court argued 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.560 that Mays violated a clear constitutional rule, finding that it 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:37.280 is clearly established that an officer cannot shoot a dog 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:42.000 in the absence of an objectively legitimate threat. This language 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:42.600 is important. 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:43.600 The court is. 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.120 Saying that a general fear of dogs or specifically pit bulls, 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.160 is not enough to justify deadly force. The threat to 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:56.520 the officer has to be an objective one. Now, these 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:58.600 are some sort of terriers. I don't know if they 0:15:58.600 --> 0:15:59.640 look like pitbulls or. 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:04.400 Yeah, the stafford Shire Terrier looks almost exactly like a pitbull. 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:06.400 Where is bond? Okay? 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:14.880 So this case is important because well, first, let's let's 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.080 peel back a couple of layers of qualified immunity. 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.720 Okay, you just just heads up to you and our audience. 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.880 You just almost lost your co host. 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:24.680 M hm. 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:31.640 You just as you just explained the reason why qualified 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:33.880 immunity did not hold up in this case. I just 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:42.920 almost unplugged, closed my computer and just left. Those reasons 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:49.360 have been true in so many videos involving black people. 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:59.200 I know, and and and I feel like I have 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.640 to say this. I am one of those people where 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.680 if a fly comes into my house, then the fly 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:09.600 is in my house. If I can catch them and 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.320 release them, I'll do it. I don't do roaches, and 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.800 I don't do mosquitos, but everything else. If you're on 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:19.400 your journey and it's not you know, you know, I'm 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.720 not going to take your life. You know, Mosquitos is 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.480 a little different, and roaches have provided that they're in 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:29.720 my house, that's different too. But I value life full stop, 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:34.439 so I'm not necessarily trying to compare the life of 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.160 a dog to a human being. I think that there 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.040 is a comparison that should go without saying there, but 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:45.520 only because in theory our capacity to empathize with other 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.199 human beings. We're human beings. We should be able to 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:54.720 empathize with other human beings. That should be prominent, It 0:17:54.760 --> 0:18:00.880 should be assumed, it should be consistent. You know, if 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:05.840 you found a baby bundled up somewhere, you're not just 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:09.680 going to say wow, neet baby and keep walking. Right. 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:11.960 There's something in us that says, oh my gosh, this 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.240 baby is alone. I now have to stay with this 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:19.280 baby until we figure out where this baby goes. Right, 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:21.879 There's some part of us that says we have to 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:27.040 respond to the humanness. There's a human component that compels 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.760 us to empathize and to defend and take action and 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:31.720 preserve life. 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:32.520 Right. 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.480 I don't imagine anybody listening or not listening, would argue 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:39.080 with that statement. If they do, then you know, there 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.520 are some sicknesses that we could explore, but for the 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:46.320 most part, healthy control would govern themselves in that manner. 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.400 So no life is greater than or less than another life. 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.840 But I do believe that in theory and human beings 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:03.320 should empathize with other huge uman's first. So this comparison 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:05.480 is not to devalue the life of the dog, but 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:11.280 rather to create a critical examination of why the courts 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:15.240 will take action in this instance. And you know, pierced 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:17.800 the veil of qualified immunity. But when it comes to 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:22.240 black bodies, you know, oftentimes they just don't do that. 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:23.520 Your thought's cute. 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:29.399 And even if not first, as is true with black 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:34.720 lives matter two. Right, even if you're not going to 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:39.560 place the value of our lives first, right, because that 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:42.480 has never even been our request for hours to be 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:48.800 first or greater than or more paramount, how about also right, 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:54.040 Like we're as important or valuable as a dog. Right, 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.480 we don't have to be first more important for most No, 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.400 just you know, if the dog that presented no danger 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:10.560 constitutionally could be protected and therefore qualified immunity removed, what 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:15.679 about the black kid or dad or brother or daughter 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.879 or mother or cousin or sister or brother or you 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:20.040 get where I'm going here. 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:24.080 Let me add something right there. Okay, so. 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:32.160 The dog is approaching the officer, right, and the officer 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:37.560 uses this to suggest my life is in danger. I 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:38.560 needed to take action. 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:51.639 Okay. Countless examples of black people. 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:57.320 Running away from the officers because and I remember watching 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:00.600 the Fresh Prince of bel Air there was a jazz 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.800 for those that haven't seen it, DJ Jazzy Jeff as 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:07.040 a DJ hero of Mine and cues. But jazz Play 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:11.959 was a character on Fresh Prince of bel Air and 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:14.120 he said, uh, there was a line in the show. 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.760 I couldn't tell you which episode, but he said, you know, 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.520 I I stopped doing what I was doing and put 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:21.440 my hands up before I got six warning shots in 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:23.840 the back, right. And it was supposed to be funny. 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:27.760 But this was in ninety two, ninety three, so you know, 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:29.320 very much part of my childhood. But we know this 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.080 going all the way back. You know, policing and black 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:38.600 bodies have never really meshed well together. But running from 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:45.600 the police is something that we know happens because the police, 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:51.040 by and large have always been something to fear because 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:54.000 of situations like that. You know, and you know we 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:56.720 can name I forget the man's name, and he deserves better. 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:04.240 But in Georgia at a Wendy's, I'll find his name. 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:10.919 But there was a Wendy's last year. He was in 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:15.240 his car, yeah he he, He stopped because he was drinking. 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:19.199 He stopped and fell asleep in his car, and the 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:24.200 police showed up, and uh, he got he was talking 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:26.680 to the police at first, got afraid or got scared 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:28.119 and tried to run away, and they shot him in 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:32.520 the back and he died. And that's not an isolated incident. 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.680 Uh Brooks is his name. 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:37.160 Rashard Brooks exactly. 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:40.960 And then uh Jacob Blake shot in the back a 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:44.600 bunch of times, and on and on, you know, and 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:48.040 so this is a real thing. Remember this dog was 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:52.639 walking toward the officer, and the courts uh pierced the 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.399 veil of qualified immunity. But in either of those cases, 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:59.080 the officers are able to hide behind qualified immunity, which 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:03.240 means that they will not be criminally prosecuted. Civil I 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:06.160 don't know, but you know, the way this story goes 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:12.679 with criminal justice in this country wouldn't surprise me. You 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:16.720 begin to see that no matter what you do. Okay, 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:19.400 who was the man that was in his car, and 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:21.120 he let the officer know he had a gun. 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:23.120 He was with his I think it was his girlfriend. 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:25.680 He says, I have a gun and I'm a card 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:29.240 carrying member of the Gun Carriers Club. And the officer 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:30.840 got Afred, pulled his gun out and shot him in 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:32.679 the passenger seat. And we saw the video pick up 0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:34.200 right there where he was slumped over in the front 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:35.680 seat of the car. You know what I'm talking about? 0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:38.200 Yes, yeah, I know this story. 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:39.720 Okay, I forget his name. 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:42.600 Fortunately, you know why you forget his name? 0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:44.680 Ramses I knew because there's so many. 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:51.200 Type type black man shot on Google, and Google automatically 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:56.080 populates the word police and then thousands of stories pull up. Sure, 0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:57.960 that's why you can't remember his name. 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:01.160 The point is, and he deserves better, and I will 0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:03.879 find his name. To the point is is that whether 0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:07.920 you're communicating with the police, whether you're silent, whether you're sleeping, 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:12.080 whether you're running, poured or running away from no. 0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:15.640 Matter what, whether you're home in bed, hey, the list 0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:19.119 goes on. These things can happen. 0:24:19.880 --> 0:24:23.199 And what happens is they keep happening because officers are 0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:26.600 able to hide behind qualified immunity. There's no effectively no 0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:30.160 consequences for it provided the officer says I was afraid, 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:33.280 but the court says that in the instance of this dog, 0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:36.760