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Speaker 1: Hello. All is Sam with a quick show announcement. First

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Speaker 1: of all, I'm doing My Hour again in LA on

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Speaker 1: May fourteenth. All the other ones have sold out, so

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Speaker 1: I recommend you get tickets asap and then get this.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing a tour this summer, so pretty much I'm

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Speaker 1: touring tour. I'll be doing My Hour in San Francisco, Seattle,

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Speaker 1: Portland in July, DC, Philly, Chicago in August, and then

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Speaker 1: Boston at the beginning of September. And there may be

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Speaker 1: a couple other cities and dates sprinkled in there, but

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Speaker 1: those are the ones. I have ticket links for it now,

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Speaker 1: so I'm saying, run, run, run to my bio and

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Speaker 1: get tickets for all those beautiful, beautiful cities. I cannot

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Speaker 1: wait to see you. Okay, that's pretty much it, so

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Speaker 1: enjoy the episode.

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Speaker 2: Bye.

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Speaker 1: Podcast starts now. What is up everyone around the globe?

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Speaker 1: It is Stradio Lab. We are coming at you bi

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Speaker 1: coastally once again.

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Speaker 2: From our apartments. I am I'm like, not wearing shoes.

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Speaker 2: This is what we usually either ha or socks me neither.

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Speaker 2: Oh crazy to say I'm not wearing shoes but then

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Speaker 2: be wearing socks. Although I guess I could be.

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Speaker 1: I'm wearing socks, and I'll let you in on a

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Speaker 1: little secret.

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Speaker 2: You know why I'm not wearing socks because baby, it's

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Speaker 2: a laundry day and I don't have anymore.

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Speaker 1: I get this. I'm doing laundry as well.

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Speaker 2: Fuck, we're SYNCD and we're both wearing black T shirts.

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Speaker 1: Well mine's a sweatshirt, but you can't. Oh cool, and

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Speaker 1: it's navy, but the lighting makes it look black.

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Speaker 2: Okay, never mind, We're doing what we normally do for

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Speaker 2: Patreon episodes. I'm just gonna say that, and I have

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Speaker 2: to keep reminding myself, you know, be you know, put

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Speaker 2: your authentic hat aside, because it's time to fake it

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Speaker 2: up for the main, non paying audience. You know, normally,

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Speaker 2: by this time in a Patreon episode, I would be

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Speaker 2: saying first and last names of people. We know that

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Speaker 2: I hate talking about which pop cultural products are vastly overrated.

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Speaker 2: But now you know executives might listen to this. No,

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Speaker 2: it's true.

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Speaker 1: This episode is specifically for the executives. We want to

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Speaker 1: show you that we are an amazing brand to partner with,

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Speaker 1: because we will never ever speak ill of your properties.

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Speaker 1: We are such a brand friendly podcast and we have

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Speaker 1: always been, so don't go back in the archives either.

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Speaker 2: I actually like, I think you're pointing to something that

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Speaker 2: is a real thing, which is like there are people

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Speaker 2: whose identity is fan where it's all about positivity and

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Speaker 2: the target isn't actually important, it's more about like, isn't

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Speaker 2: this great?

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Speaker 1: Well, as we know, criticism is dead. But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, sometimes critics are dumb as hell regarding the drama.

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Speaker 1: Regarding the drama, of course, and so therefore it should

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Speaker 1: be dead. So I'm confused and I'm torn.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm glad you brought this up, because the critical

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Speaker 2: response to the drama, as you know, has actually fucked

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Speaker 2: with me in a really crazy way where I am

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Speaker 2: a little bit like, wait a minute, I subscribe to

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Speaker 2: multiple print magazines. I am white knuckling at I support criticism,

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Speaker 2: I support journalism. The response of the drama has me

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Speaker 2: being like, you know what, you guys don't deserve jobs.

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Speaker 2: And I actually trust TikTokers more. It's like the collective

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Speaker 2: do they all get together and decide Like, by the way,

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Speaker 2: the theme this month is missing the point.

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Speaker 1: It's completely insane. It makes me feel the same way

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Speaker 1: I've felt in twenty sixteen, when Trump was elected president

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Speaker 1: the first time where I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

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Speaker 1: I do not understand, my fellow man, not even close.

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Speaker 2: You can't even see. But I'm doing the silent snapping

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Speaker 2: thing that people do at dragon shows.

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Speaker 1: You're clocking it. It's also like when whenever I talk

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Speaker 1: to someone, I keep expecting to meet people in the

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Speaker 1: wild who are like, well, actually I hated the drama,

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Speaker 1: and I'd be like, oh, you're the people that I've

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Speaker 1: read about on the internet. Now everyone I talk to

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Speaker 1: loves it. Everyone Now I'm confused.

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Speaker 2: No, it's everyone loves it. And people aren't even doing

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Speaker 2: the like millennial defensiveness tick of being like, I know

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of issues with it, but I

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Speaker 2: actually thought it was kind of good. People aren't even

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Speaker 2: doing that. They're just going They're going full steam ahead.

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Speaker 2: They're saying, I love this film.

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Speaker 1: Well, I something's up. Something's up in film criticism in particular, because,

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Speaker 1: as we all know, we watched all the Oscar movies

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Speaker 1: this year, and like, after each one, I'd be like, well,

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Speaker 1: that wasn't as bad as everybody said.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, and I was like, what's going on here.

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Speaker 2: Well except for F one, Well that was much more,

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Speaker 2: which is of course the opposite where you see people

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Speaker 2: normal people. You're talking to normal people, normal folks, and

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Speaker 2: they're saying, oh, you know it was you know, I

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Speaker 2: know it was a little commercial, but you know it

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Speaker 2: was pretty good. Three out of five stars. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: have you forgotten how to dream?

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Speaker 1: It's crazy. It makes me fucking sick.

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Speaker 2: If you felt that F one was anything above a

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Speaker 2: complete art, histic and moral abomination, I want you to

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Speaker 2: press stop on this podcast right now, if you've finished

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Speaker 2: and go on to summerhouse, stupid bitch and didn't consider

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Speaker 2: it self harm. I need you to reflect for a moment.

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Speaker 2: I almost started crying because of how bad F one was.

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Speaker 1: It was horrible. It was horrible. But yeah, we're this

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Speaker 1: is actually our first by coastal recording.

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Speaker 2: Of the year. Yeah, first by coast recording of the year,

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Speaker 2: and first zoom recording on the main feed in many,

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Speaker 2: many months. I've actually yaled that nailed?

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Speaker 1: What like being back and forth? You like really did that?

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Speaker 1: That was crazy?

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Speaker 2: No, it's good. It's just hard to when you're at home,

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Speaker 2: like this is the desk I'm sitting in all day,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to like kind of snap into professional mode,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Well, the honey from the unprofessional I think, you know

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Speaker 1: it's it's I kind of miss zoom record, not not

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Speaker 1: the medium of zoom, but I miss the privacy. Like

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Speaker 1: sometimes when we're in the room, I'm so nervous what

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Speaker 1: the like sound engineer thinks of what we're saying. And

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Speaker 1: this I'm like only thinking about our dear, dear listeners

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Speaker 1: and knowing that they have our best interests in mind.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's a double edged sword because on

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Speaker 2: the one hand, of course I relate to what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, is there a better high than

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Speaker 2: making the sound engineer laugh in in studio in the room?

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Speaker 1: That's true?

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Speaker 2: Or you know, having our dear producer Rebecca sort of

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Speaker 2: shout out a suggestion when we're saying something and suddenly

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Speaker 2: it's a communal experience and we're around the fire and

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Speaker 2: we're in a pre industrial age.

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Speaker 1: That's true. You're right, Well, today we're gonna be talking

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Speaker 1: about a few pieces of culture.

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Speaker 2: We are doing something we normally do on the Patreon,

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Speaker 2: which we call straight culture gab fest. Now you might

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Speaker 2: be thinking, is this about straight culture. No, it's actually

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Speaker 2: a pun on the podcast Slate Culture gab Fest, and

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Speaker 2: it's just about pop culture.

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Speaker 1: And if they try sue us, they should know that

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Speaker 1: we don't play nice when it comes to.

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Speaker 2: You think if we played nice, we wouldn't have already

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Speaker 2: gotten sued by Radio Lab, the name of a podcast

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Speaker 2: that literally we based our entire livelihoods on. They wouldn't dare.

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Speaker 1: They wouldn't dare I dare the Slate team to use

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Speaker 1: the Slate plus bucks to fucking hire a lawyer to

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Speaker 1: sue our asses.

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Speaker 2: You will, wait, haven't listened to your stupid ass since

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Speaker 2: you said you didn't like the drama. Literally, this is

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Speaker 2: your wind hope you're enjoying your dwindling Gen X listeners, because,

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Speaker 2: as someone who is a faithful listener for twelve years,

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Speaker 2: I said, enough is enough. Here's my this is.

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Speaker 1: You know what we're doing. We're literally doing. When someone

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Speaker 1: starts a Twitter beef and it's like, but you know

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Speaker 1: how you can fix your racist show have us on it, Like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, yeah, you know how you can fixture anti comedy,

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Speaker 2: anti alt comedy show where you literally don't understand comedy

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Speaker 2: and always have negative things to say about comedic properties

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Speaker 2: that aren't like James L. Brooks, Have us.

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Speaker 1: On, have us on, let us talk about comedy. I

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Speaker 1: trust and believe we can. Uh, we can bring a

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Speaker 1: different perspective that you need.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like one of someone with a sense of humor.

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Speaker 1: Op.

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Speaker 2: So usually what we do inspired by our favorite podcast

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Speaker 2: like Culture Gap Lists, which again we are literally lifelong

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Speaker 2: listeners of despite our little loud burst, is we have

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Speaker 2: three things that are in the cultural zeit guys, and

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Speaker 2: we sort of chat about them one by one. And

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Speaker 2: today we will be discussing the new Madonna single what

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Speaker 2: is it called again? I Feel So Free? I Feel

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Speaker 2: so free? Honey, where'sh I gonna relate? And then we

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Speaker 2: will be discussing season three of The Comeback, which is

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Speaker 2: now airing on HBO and streaming next morning on HBO

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Speaker 2: Max and in fact streaming the night of. And then

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Speaker 2: the third thing is basically a combination of two articles.

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Speaker 2: This Business Insider article by Katie Natopolis called Clipping on

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Speaker 2: Social Media makes Me Wonder What's real and what isn't

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Speaker 2: and the Wired investigation that prompted it, which is pretty

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Speaker 2: much about a marketing agency that promoted the songs of

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Speaker 2: the band Geese and whether or not that means they

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Speaker 2: are a syop.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I think obviously, going in order, I think we

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Speaker 1: should start with Madonna.

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Speaker 2: Madonna.

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Speaker 1: Uh so you are clearly off the bat a hater

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Speaker 1: of this new track.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm not a hater of the new track. I

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Speaker 2: something you have to understand about me and Madonna is

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Speaker 2: I'm never gonna on the record say anything negative about her.

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Speaker 2: She could come out and like Murder a little, talk

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Speaker 2: about Geese, murder a little, or Goose on the Coachella stage,

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Speaker 2: and I would say, well, we don't know her side.

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Speaker 1: We don't know what the Goose did.

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Speaker 2: I I struggle because I know that Madonna has within

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Speaker 2: her the power to be great, and I worry, and

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Speaker 2: I have worried since pretty much Sticky and Sweet, that

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Speaker 2: she has surrounded herself with yes men and with people

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Speaker 2: that like don't quite get who she is as an artist.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's very a real fear.

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Speaker 2: And the second thing I would say about that, and

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Speaker 2: that's how I felt about, you know, parts of the

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Speaker 2: last few albums. Although I actually defended a defender of

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Speaker 2: some songs on Madam X and I think that regardless

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Speaker 2: of have you listened to God Control? No, Amy Zimmer

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Speaker 2: and I love God Control. It's so good.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: And then she also has this song with Quevo called

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Speaker 2: like Crave I'm looking it up. No, it's with sway Lee.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. I didn't realize madame X was her last album.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it wasn't even that long ago. It

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Speaker 2: was twenty nineteen. It's just pre pandemic, so it seems

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Speaker 2: like forever ago forema.

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Speaker 1: I actually loved the covers.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's phenomenal. I would say the madame

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Speaker 2: X cover is actually a the Madamex cover, and then

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Speaker 2: a couple of songs you get you're like, okay, yes,

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Speaker 2: let her cook, like this is she can do it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she can do it.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, the point is, I think a combination of

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Speaker 2: me fearing about the people she's surrounding herself with, and

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Speaker 2: then also the part two of it all, like the

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Speaker 2: idea that this is Confession's part two scares me because

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Speaker 2: it feels nostalgia bait and it feels like looking back

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Speaker 2: rather than looking forward. And to me, the best thing

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Speaker 2: about Madonna is that she's historically like on the cutting edge.

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Speaker 1: Of things rather than reheating her own nachos. I think

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Speaker 1: you're right. I think the sequel thing is a bit scary,

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Speaker 1: but I think for her it almost feels new because

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Speaker 1: she's pushed forward for so long. It feels kind of

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Speaker 1: groundbreaking to be like I'm actually going back like and

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Speaker 1: and even like she could have gone back to so

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Speaker 1: many other things. And I know that Confessions was huge

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Speaker 1: and like was already a comeback, and so that's like

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Speaker 1: why it's notable that she's going back to the comeback.

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Speaker 1: But I think there's something too, like it's also like random,

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Speaker 1: like she's not being like like a virgin too. She's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm choosing this one almost as a flex of like

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Speaker 1: don't forget I was there this aesthetic that everyone's doing.

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Speaker 1: Now I did it, and I'm doing it again. And

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Speaker 1: now there's something humble about going back too, where you're like,

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Speaker 1: you're right, like I kind of lost the threat a bit,

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Speaker 1: let me take a few steps back.

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Speaker 2: So I think specifically choosing Confessions is interesting because what

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Speaker 2: is Confessions. It is the last time she captured the

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Speaker 2: zeitgeist she has had. She's had good stuff since then,

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Speaker 2: but Confessions was like an actual zeitgeist define moment, and

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Speaker 2: it was last time she was fully in control. So

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Speaker 2: to your point, it is very much like her being

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Speaker 2: like as I was saying, and then returning to two

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Speaker 2: thousand and five, Yeah, yeah, I also want to say

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Speaker 2: she has a very sophisticated understanding of her own ubra

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Speaker 2: and of the things she has done that are good

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Speaker 2: versus just popular. And I felt this way a lot

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Speaker 2: when I went to the Celebration tour and the things

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Speaker 2: that she chose. The fact that she opened with nothing

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Speaker 2: really matters, the fact that she did a few b

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Speaker 2: sides from American Life, Like there was no reason for

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Speaker 2: her to do that. She has enough mainstream top forty

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Speaker 2: hits to fill a whole, you know, stadium tour. But

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Speaker 2: it showed me that there's still someone kicking in there.

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Speaker 1: Oh, there's a creative of vision in there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I of course had to famously miss the

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Speaker 1: concert because I chose career over Madonna. That she would

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Speaker 1: have done that too, so you're honoring her in that way.

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Speaker 1: But everything I read about it was the she has

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Speaker 1: like a really long she did a really long Die

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Speaker 1: Another Day version, when everything else got like a snippet.

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Speaker 1: Not only did she do a really long die in

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Speaker 1: the other day, she did.

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Speaker 2: What is it? Mother and Father? She did like a

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Speaker 2: crazy B side from Yes, Mother and Father. Mother and

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Speaker 2: Father is a song that even I, as a American

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Speaker 2: life stand that's probably my least favorite song on that Like,

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Speaker 2: it is crazy to choose to do Mother and Father.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so basically she's completely insane.

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Speaker 2: But but you like the song. I think the song

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Speaker 2: is what I like about it is like.

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Speaker 1: It does feel a bit back to basics in a

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Speaker 1: nice way. It doesn't feel super splashy as a single,

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Speaker 1: but it kind of implies that, like the album itself,

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Speaker 1: will have a mood which I'm comforted by.

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Speaker 2: I agree, and and I will say I do like

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Speaker 2: the song. I just my fear is so great that

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Speaker 2: I can't even sit down and enjoy it. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: reasonable because being a Madonna fan for the last twenty

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Speaker 2: years is defined by basically like, here comes another humiliation,

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Speaker 2: Like we're gonna have to defend our girl. Well, it's

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Speaker 2: dealing with loss and grief for the constantory, It's exactly,

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Speaker 2: it's dealing with loss and grief. And first that lost

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Speaker 2: on grief. At least you were among people who had

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Speaker 2: lived through her golden era. Now you know, we're so

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Speaker 2: old that you're actually having to explain to a young person, Like,

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Speaker 2: I know you think of her as this, but back

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Speaker 2: when I was young, she was this. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I The other thing about the song is it sounds

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Speaker 1: so obviously there's like an I Feel love sort of

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Speaker 1: instrument thing happening in there, but there's also like something

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Speaker 1: about it. I think Roshe Murphy is very much on

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Speaker 1: the mood board, and there's something that I'm curious about

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Speaker 1: culturally where it's like Rochhene has been canceled, yeah, due

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Speaker 1: to her horrible digging of heels in and horrible trans bigotry.

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Speaker 1: And Madonna's sort of like, oh well, if you're not

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Speaker 1: using that anymore, then I'll have it.

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Speaker 2: She's like, wait, I actually I like trans people and

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Speaker 2: I could just do this music.

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Speaker 1: She's like, so that's actually perfect for me. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for letting me take that, because there was a lot

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Speaker 1: where I was like, this sounds a lot like rochine Machine,

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Speaker 1: Like there was the like the little like speaking part

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Speaker 1: is you know, a dance trope and classic, but it's

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Speaker 1: like the way that Roshine does it that like I

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Speaker 1: feel my story is still untold. I feel that Madonna's

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Speaker 1: doing almost exactly that in a way that I think

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Speaker 1: is like I'm sort of like, good, someone else should

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Speaker 1: do this who isn't problematic so we can still have fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I like the return of the dance Floor.

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Speaker 2: I like that it's not as much as it is

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Speaker 2: Confessions too. It is a new sound. It's not actually

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Speaker 2: a song that would be in Confession's onet, which I appreciate.

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Speaker 2: Is there a music video? I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that scares me, which we need to

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Speaker 1: bring up is the rollout.

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Speaker 2: What you means, Sabrina Carpenter.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean more like it was supposed to come

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Speaker 1: out midnight that Thursday, like sash midnight that Friday, and

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Speaker 1: it just like didn't come out till like the next

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Speaker 1: day at like three pm. I did not know that

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Speaker 1: they're literally dealing with. Madonna has like our level of

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Speaker 1: you know, roll out.

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Speaker 2: Madonna has it on the flash drive.

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Speaker 1: Like she's like, oh fuck, I forgot to upload that,

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Speaker 1: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm.

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Speaker 1: Like this is That's such a scary sign for me

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Speaker 1: because there's everything needs to be like perfect.

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Speaker 2: I know, I think that. Okay, I'm being so negative

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Speaker 2: and I really don't want to be. But this reminds

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Speaker 2: me of how her biopick, her famous biopic that she

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Speaker 2: herself is producing, has gone through all these writers, and

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Speaker 2: it's always like Madonna likes to work at one am,

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Speaker 2: and like, so you have to come over to her

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Speaker 2: house and then she's sort of like, you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of like playing the moroccas and doing a dance while

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Speaker 2: you're trying to work on your laptop, and then she's

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Speaker 2: like posting a carousel of images of her and the writer,

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Speaker 2: and then the writer has to go. I'm I I

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Speaker 2: want to believe that there is like someone in charge.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmmm hmm. But at the same time, ultimately the

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Speaker 2: song is good.

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Speaker 1: Ultimately the song is good, Ultimately we love her down

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Speaker 1: and ultimately I really hope the album is good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. What do you think of the Sabrina Carpenter thing.

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Speaker 1: I was charmed by seeing her, you know. I like

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Speaker 1: that she is very strategic about hopping back into the

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Speaker 1: younger people. And I thought it was cool that she

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Speaker 1: chose Sabrina and that Sabrina was so respectful, and I

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Speaker 1: thought both of their looks were fun. I thought the

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Speaker 1: singing together was fun. I did think the backlash around

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Speaker 1: like people weren't singing like a prayer. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: how to feel about that. There was like this thing

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Speaker 1: where people were like it was silent during like a prayer.

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Speaker 1: What's wrong with kids these days? And I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe they don't have an association with it yet, Like

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Speaker 1: maybe they will now that this controversy is even happening.

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Speaker 2: God, do you think we live in a world where

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Speaker 2: like people don't know like a prayer.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean not to be the most basic person

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Speaker 1: on earth, but I'm like, hello, it was in the

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Speaker 1: Deadpool and Wolverine trailer, Like you must have some relationship

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Speaker 1: with it. It's like it's not like it's disappeared. It's

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Speaker 1: still very much in like mainstream culture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but the thing with songs like that is you

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Speaker 2: sort of do have to remind people every few years.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm just even something like think of something like

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Speaker 2: don't Stop Believe in by Journey. It's obviously such a cliche,

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Speaker 2: you know, corny song. But I remember there was some

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Speaker 2: oh Rock of Ages on Broadway like brought it back

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Speaker 2: in a big way because they like performed it at

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Speaker 2: the Tony's and then suddenly it had like another moment,

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Speaker 2: or like even even the concept that some people literally

381
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:23,200
Speaker 2: discovered Kate Bush because of stranger things or whatever. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you just we think that the things we learned when

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Speaker 2: we were like eight, you know, carry over, but they don't.

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Speaker 1: I will say, even if you know it, it didn't.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it takes a different context for you to understand

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Speaker 1: the true feeling behind it. Because I remember like a prayer,

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Speaker 1: like I knew it growing up, but then like somebody

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Speaker 1: played it at like a like I was a party

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Speaker 1: when I was like twenty three, like I was out

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Speaker 1: of college, and I was like, oh my god, this

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Speaker 1: is fun. We all like lost it and so now

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Speaker 1: forever it'll be like when I was twenty three, of

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Speaker 1: that party, like a prayer like lifted up everybody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I had a similar experience with George Freedom, where

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Speaker 2: I had like an experience at a specific party and

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, got it, this is like a

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Speaker 2: religious experience.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when it hits, it hits.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was a little too young, like I

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Speaker 2: don't remember it coming out, or like the music video

401
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Speaker 2: with the models is something that I like later watched

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Speaker 2: on YouTube. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe, like I think that the conversation around

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Speaker 1: it could be good where people like cool, younger people

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Speaker 1: will be like trying to make it happen, and then

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Speaker 1: it'll happen for everyone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. One more thing I'll say about Madonna is somehow,

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Speaker 2: despite all the times that she has quote unquote almost

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Speaker 2: been back, I still always believe it. I want to

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Speaker 2: believe it so much that I'm like always willing to

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Speaker 2: give her the benefit of the doubt, to the point

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Speaker 2: where I actually so recently, this was maybe like six

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Speaker 2: months ago, she did this two hour long interview on

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Speaker 2: the Jay Shetty podcast. You know who that is?

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Speaker 1: Uh? Yes, he's like like sort of a self help type.

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Speaker 2: Like a complete like full of shit self help. You

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Speaker 2: can see he's full of shit from a mile away.

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Speaker 2: But it is an indictment of our culture that somehow

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Speaker 2: people don't get it and he's insanely popular. It's like

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Speaker 2: it's shocking. It's like you see someone you're like, I

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Speaker 2: see how you're speaking, I see how you're dressed, and

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Speaker 2: I see the things you're saying. You are so clearly

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Speaker 2: full of shit, and then you realize that everyone somehow

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Speaker 2: is like buying his books or whatever. Mm hmm. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: so she'd I watched the entire two hours of it,

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Speaker 2: and it was like Madonna has a big announcement, she's

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Speaker 2: breaking her silence and she's talking about her spiritual journey.

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Speaker 2: And I sat there for like an hour and a

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Speaker 2: half being like, okay, like you're obviously kookie, you're obviously crazy,

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Speaker 2: but like you are an icon. I want to know

431
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Speaker 2: what you're saying. Turns out, what I learned in the

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Speaker 2: second half of podcast, she's promoting her classes on Kabala

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Speaker 2: dot com. Oh that's tough, and I'm not like making

434
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 2: a joke. It's literally Kabala dot com. And so I

435
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 2: was like, oh, okay, yeah, and so I have that

436
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 2: fresh in my mind with this with this rollout. But

437
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 2: at the same time, she's always been able to go

438
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 2: Kabala and then go back into the studio. Of course.

439
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: I mean there's something about her where I'm like, she

440
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: is like a reflection. She is always a reflection of

441
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: our time, in the negative and the positive, and so

442
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: I'm like curious to see how society changes how she

443
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: presents and what she does. It is funny speaking of that,

444
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: how she has now quote unquote waited long enough that

445
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,640
Speaker 1: everyone's actually ready to like her again. I've been thinking

446
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 1: about this a lot with Elena Dunna memoir, which I'm

447
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: almost done with, where like, basically, if you're a woman

448
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 1: in the public eye, the only thing you can do

449
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: is wait for people to sort of like sit with

450
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 1: it and be like, you know, we were.

451
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 2: Unfair to her. Yeah, that's like the only way you

452
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,880
Speaker 2: can do it. You have to eat shit for fifteen

453
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 2: years and then suddenly people will be like, and now

454
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: it's time for a redemption.

455
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: I mean Gaga kind of had to do that too.

456
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: There was like the post art pop. She basically had

457
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: to be like, Okay, I'll like do sound of music

458
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: at the oscars. I'll like pull everything back be normal.

459
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: I'll like do something unhateable, and then I'll do stars

460
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 1: Born and Joe Anne and like opposite order. But then

461
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: so finally, which just chromatica. People are like, you know what, good,

462
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: I'm glad she has music we can dance too. But

463
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: she really had to like go to pop star jail.

464
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 2: You know, you know who doesn't do that, man?

465
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: I mean literally, no, that's true. Oh but speaking of

466
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: pop star jail, Actually, this is an interesting This is

467
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: an interesting concept. Okay, because now people are trying to

468
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: do the Timothy Shallomey backlash on Charlie XCX, and obviously

469
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: it's a fake saga. Yeah, obviously none of it makes sense,

470
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 1: but they're trying. They're trying to like make a news

471
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: story happen about like the dance floor is dead. And

472
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: I'm like, are people trying to put Charlie XCX in

473
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: pop star jail?

474
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 2: So if anyone isn't reading the same tweets, we are,

475
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: way Sam was referring to, is that Charlie and some

476
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 2: in I guess said the dance floor is dead, so

477
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,719
Speaker 2: by making a rock album. She said it in Vogue

478
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 2: in Vogue, Wow, yeah, And so yeah, people are trying

479
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: to murder her with guns.

480
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sort of like the Purge, but it's not

481
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: that all crimes are legal, just killing killing Charlie XCIX

482
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 1: is suddenly legal according to gay guys. Yeah, and so

483
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: then like now it's become like a pr move where

484
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: like the most random detail on earth will like tweet

485
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: like a video of people dancing and be like take this, Charlie,

486
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, like this isn't really working. It's

487
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: so amazing it's humiliating. I mean, this actually goes into

488
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: a later story which maybe we jump to the front

489
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: to be honest, but like these stories, we're like, this

490
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: is fake, this is not a real controversy.

491
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 2: Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. Second. Wait

492
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 2: before we do those speaking of music, have you sat

493
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: with nine inch Noise anymore? Or no, you don't care?

494
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 1: I don't. Let's not say I don't care. It's not

495
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: that they don't care, it's that I, like, haven't. I

496
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 1: only listened to it for like maybe ten to fifteen

497
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: minutes while driving to and from the grocery store, so

498
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: I haven't given it like a true listen yet.

499
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, I think I must have been just in

500
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 2: the right headspace because I literally like someone who recommended

501
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 2: it to me. I was sort of interested in it.

502
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: I'd heard seen people tweet about it.

503
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard, and I heard the Coachella performance was

504
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 2: really good and I kind of want to go back

505
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,239
Speaker 2: and watch. But I pressed play on it, and it

506
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 2: was legitimately like taking a drug. I was like ready

507
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 2: to get up off of my plane seat and start dancing,

508
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 2: and I haven't felt that way in a while. There

509
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 2: was something very like not trying to be like hitting

510
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 2: the pleasure centers directly to me.

511
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:52,479
Speaker 1: Well, it's the altitude, No way is it. Is it

512
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: like a new album or like a remix album? So

513
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: I'm kind of confused.

514
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 2: Right, I was too. So it is an album that

515
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 2: is nine inch Nails plus this DJ named Boys Noise,

516
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: and it's all new dancy versions of old nine inch

517
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 2: Nails songs except for I think there's like one or

518
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 2: two that are different. God so, and some of them

519
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 2: are like I mean, Closer is one of the songs,

520
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 2: which just like I think, literally the most famous nine

521
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 2: inch Nail song. But it's like, I don't know, there's

522
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: just something. It's there's something that's like it's all been

523
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: leading to this about it, Like what if you took

524
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: like old, depressing, suicidal nine inch Nails and combined it

525
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 2: with the Challenges soundtrack. Trent Presner, you know what I mean.

526
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna listen to it as I drive to the

527
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: airport to pick up my parents today.

528
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 2: Okay, anyway, now that that parenthetical is closed, Oh wait,

529
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 2: one more parenthetical.

530
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: Okay, oh, one more parenthetical regarding the Madonna thing. I'm

531
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: so conspiracy minded, get this. I think she's trying to

532
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: change the narrative around people not singing to like a prayer.

533
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: And I think the missing clothes are fake.

534
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 2: So is the story there that she lost the outfits

535
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 2: she wore at Coachella, which is allegedly the same outfits

536
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: she wore in two thousand and five when she performed Confessions.

537
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: Correct, it's like vintage vintage pieces okay, from her collection

538
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: and she lost she lost them, she lost them or

539
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 1: they were stolen, and she's, you know, pleading for people

540
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: to bring them back. And I think it's to create

541
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: a new story so that people aren't talking about people

542
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: not singing to like a prayer.

543
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: That is so interesting because I also do think of

544
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 2: Madonna present day Madonna as someone who would misplace a

545
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: vintage leotard. Yeah, so it's not. But maybe that's why

546
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 2: it's so genius that she made up the story, because

547
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: it's something that is that is likely to happen.

548
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, I the way as we go into

549
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: the second story, I'm like the way that I'm not

550
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: believing anything on the Internet and I'm thinking everything.

551
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: Is press Well, yes, I think I think that there

552
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: are basically three kinds of content right now. And it

553
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 2: is real AI advertising and basically like the intersect, the

554
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: fact that it's never clear which of the three you're

555
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 2: looking at, and also that the three can intersect. And

556
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 2: like AI can be advertising something real, it can also

557
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: be sponsored. Something real can be AI generated or I assisted.

558
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 2: It actually makes you feel crazy at all times, and

559
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 2: it there is this layer of paranoia that is almost

560
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 2: like enveloping me in a way that I can't escape.

561
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: When I posted my clip where the amber alert went

562
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: off after I did the joke about amber alerts, which

563
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: was a completely real thing that happened, and then I

564
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: posted it on TikTok and people started being like, this

565
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: is obviously fake. Who would believe this? This is obviously fake?

566
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: And I was like, wait, I'm a conspiracy theory. Like,

567
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: I was like, this is so crazy. It gave me

568
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: so much empathy for people that were on the Epstein

569
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: plane just to have a good time, just so they

570
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: thought they were getting a trip.

571
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 2: Now that's so true. Okay, So the second story we

572
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 2: want to talk about is the conversation around a the

573
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 2: marketing company that was hired by Geese and by many

574
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: other buzzy bands and artists to sort of pump up

575
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: their social relevance and whether or not that inherently means

576
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: that they are syops. And then related to that, this

577
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: Katie a Topless article that I mentioned that is sort

578
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: of just generally talking about the experience of not knowing

579
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: what's real and what isn't real on social media.

580
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I guess like initial reactions to this Wired

581
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: story about if Geese is a syop, I obviously don't

582
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: think Geese is a syop, But that being said, I

583
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: do think they kind of had the perfect storm of

584
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: like the intersections that you're talking about, where it was

585
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: like fake press and real press combining to seem like

586
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: they're everywhere because they were doing this thing if they

587
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: did hire this company to basically make clips and like

588
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,239
Speaker 1: try to make them go viral and try to make

589
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: it seem like there's a lot more people talking about

590
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: them than there are. But at the same time, I

591
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: think there were forgetting about the Cameron Winter album as well,

592
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: because the Cameron Winter album, I feel like the solo

593
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: album already had because it had been out before the

594
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: Geese album, and I think it was having like a

595
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: lot of buzz among real music heads. I think, yeah,

596
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: maybe he also was doing that, but I feel like

597
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: I personally heard like cool people being like, this album

598
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: is amazing, You've got to listen to it.

599
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 2: Well, I do think there was independently of the clips

600
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: and the clipping, there was organic positive critical coverage on

601
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: music websites by music critics, by people that are like

602
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 2: in the know and are sort of like music commentators

603
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 2: on social media. And so then the marketing element of

604
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: it is just that it's marketing. It's like, well, okay,

605
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: this is what we are working with. It's like a

606
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 2: new Ish band that's getting some critical acclaim, how do

607
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: we get them to be everywhere? And that's I just

608
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 2: think like in a different era, a publicist would get

609
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: you on the cover of Rolling Stone, and in this era,

610
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: your marketing team or whatever marketing firm you hire. The

611
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: way of quote unquote getting press is being quote unquote everywhere.

612
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: That's that's the only thing that matters, is like being

613
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: inescapable on social media, and so I don't know. I'm

614
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 2: also like, something interesting to me about these conversations is

615
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: like there's this assumption that there is some default of

616
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 2: no intervention on your feeds, Like this idea people have

617
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 2: that like you go on TikTok, you go on Instagram,

618
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 2: and there's this fault where you're just organically shown things

619
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: as they come, and then there's certain people messing with that,

620
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 2: whether it's by doing things that the algorithm rewards, whether

621
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 2: it's by doing something it's more pay to play it

622
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: just it's never been there's no such thing as pre

623
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: intervention algorithmic feed. Yeah. Like the last time that was

624
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: the case was in like the pre advertising days of Facebook,

625
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: where you would like scroll and it would legitimately be

626
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 2: like what everyone posted twenty thirteen Instagram.

627
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh I miss it every day.

628
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 2: So but but I do I think it? I mean,

629
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 2: Katie says in this article, like let me find it

630
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: one second. We often mentally gauge as a popularity of

631
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: something by how often it pops up on our social feeds,

632
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: and the fact that some of these videos are being

633
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: boosted by forces other than pure fandom is clouding our

634
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: perception of it. Like, because I have this experience with

635
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: so many things where I will like talk to someone,

636
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: I'll be like, aren't you sick of seeing X y

637
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: Z online? And they will have no idea what I'm

638
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: talking about?

639
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: Right, you have that joke about the bonnets kind of

640
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: about this. It is confusing though, because it did used

641
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: to be a good way to gauge. There was a

642
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: time when it was like we're all sort of looking

643
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: at the same Twitter and we'd be like, this is

644
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: big on Twitter. It still wasn't perfect, like it was

645
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 1: like the Internet is a small section of the world

646
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: at that point, but now it's just you really. Like

647
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: I will say, when the Geese album came out, I

648
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: was like, whoa. The explosion that it was was like,

649
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 1: what's going on here? Like it was like, I agree

650
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: as if everyone had always loved this band, loved this band.

651
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: Very rarely do I feel that type of you know,

652
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: a second plane is hit the tower?

653
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, holy shit, totally, but I think

654
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 2: that something that's really scary to me and this I

655
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 2: I also felt this way during the Blake Lively, before

656
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 2: we knew that Justin Beldonho was funding the Blake Lively.

657
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 2: What's the rummling for like the Blake Lively? Basically like

658
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 2: smear campaign, smear campaign or whatever. I okay, let me start,

659
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 2: let me start over. What I'm trying to say is

660
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 2: I am always shocked at how people will go with

661
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 2: the flow of the official narrative even when there's clearly

662
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,959
Speaker 2: something fishy about it. And I remember very well when

663
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 2: the narrative became Isn't it in such poor taste that

664
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 2: Blake Lively is wearing florals to her movie about domestic violence?

665
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: Which I'm sorry, but that is clearly a stupid point

666
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 2: to make, Like there's just no way around it, Like

667
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 2: that is clearly something like if it's not I didn't

668
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: know it was paid, but I just assumed it was

669
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: something like a teenager would say, like it's just it's like,

670
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 2: this isn't a thing, Like it's I am not angry

671
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 2: that Blake Lively is promoting her hair care line while

672
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: promoting her movie. That's just like how celebrity works. You

673
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 2: can find her annoying, but it's she's not unethical, right,

674
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 2: And yet I saw people we know, people we know

675
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 2: that I consider smart to just like immediately run with

676
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 2: it and just fully be like, oh, this is what

677
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 2: we're doing. I agree, and I've always said so. And

678
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 2: I think that's what happens in a much less sinister

679
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 2: way with this music stuff, which is you see people

680
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 2: liking something online you want to be part of the conversation.

681
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: We all talk in this like in these hyperbolic ways

682
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: of like this is the best thing, the best album

683
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 2: of the century, best album of the decade, whatever, and

684
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 2: so all this marketing firm needs to do is just

685
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 2: like set the stage, like they just need to plan

686
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: some seeds, and normal people will will do the work

687
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 2: for them after that, you know what I mean. Like

688
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 2: the idea that it's a syop is kind of a

689
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: misnomber because all they're doing is like getting the ball

690
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 2: rolled and then normal people are like, oh, got it,

691
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 2: I'll participate in this.

692
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, this also happened with the Pedro Pascal

693
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: is bizarre to his female co stars completely like it's

694
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: it is a thing happening more and more. I'm I guess,

695
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: like what I've enjoyed about these articles is like, like

696
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: I agree, I don't think like Geese is Geese is

697
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: not a siop. Obviously, Geese is not a syop. They

698
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: are a band in marketing helped and they were like

699
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: already respected and it made them more popular, exposed more

700
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: people to them. But there is this thing where like

701
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 1: the internet is so untrustworthy, which sounds, of course insane

702
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: because We've known that for a long time. But we

703
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: used to be able to trust. Like social media felt

704
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: like the more real place because you could be like, oh,

705
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: look at all these people talking about this. Well now

706
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: it's like completely false.

707
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 2: Well, especially when normally the idea of the industry or

708
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 2: a sigh up is the opposite. It's like, why is

709
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 2: this person I've never heard of on the cover of

710
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 2: a lore? Yeah, that's like that's what an industry plan is.

711
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 2: It's like it used to be the putting someone on

712
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 2: the cover was something that like dark forces would do,

713
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 2: and social media is where you saw what the real

714
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 2: people were talking about. And so it is, I guess,

715
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 2: as with any sort of new media, first it starts

716
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 2: as kind of pure in some way, and then the

717
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 2: more professionalized and corporatized it gets, the less trustworthy it

718
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 2: gets as as like a sample of what's out there

719
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 2: or something.

720
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: You know, reading these articles, did it you know, we

721
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: put out content? One could argue, did it make you

722
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: feel that, oh, I need to just pay a person

723
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars and I can get one hundred thousand

724
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: views on this thing.

725
00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a tough question because because I mean,

726
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 2: we have never done that, and I have never done that,

727
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 2: and I don't think you have ever done that either.

728
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: No, but.

729
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 2: First of all, we literally do know people who have

730
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: done that for sure, who have bought followers. We know

731
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 2: people who out of nowhere became started having numbers that

732
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 2: didn't make sense based on their output. It is. It's

733
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 2: one of those things that, even though you witness it constantly,

734
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 2: you have to force yourself to not think too hard

735
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: about it, because the harder you think about it, the

736
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 2: more you like become completely paranoid and you're like, everything

737
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 2: is fake. You know, nothing matters, and I just I

738
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 2: have to somewhere in my heart believe that there is

739
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: some chance of things happening organically and in ways I understand.

740
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 1: This is all going almost towards like dead Internet theory,

741
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: where it's like we're just going back, like we if

742
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,479
Speaker 1: it's just pay to play, Like at some point people

743
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: will be like, well, I don't like that, Let's just

744
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: have Rolling Stone again and be like these people have

745
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: tastes and there who we this month?

746
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I do think while people are dumber

747
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 2: than you think in the sense that they will pairro

748
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 2: It talking points about Blake Lively, they are also smarter

749
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 2: than you think, because people are on social media and

750
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: they are not enjoying this. They're not enjoying this like

751
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 2: a cacophony of terrible clips, which is basically what it

752
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 2: has become. There is no way that is the future

753
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: of media. And like, honestly, it's an honor to be

754
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 2: part of it, and I'm maybe if it can help

755
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 2: us sell some to tickets that I'm happy to do it,

756
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 2: But like, there is no way this is what this

757
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 2: has all been leading to. Yeah, making everything into like

758
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 2: disposable short form video content.

759
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: It's such a weird scramble and it's it ain't right.

760
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 2: And it'll every new form of media like that seems

761
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 2: dated within two years, like in the same way that

762
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 2: now we look back on like early YouTube comedy or

763
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 2: you know, people share their old Facebook statuses and they're like,

764
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: can you believe that I posted this or whatever. That's

765
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: what all of this is gonna seem like in two years.

766
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: Okay, let's give it a little more than two.

767
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 2: No, by that time, we will have pivoted two AI chatbots,

768
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 2: George Bott and Sambot, that you can hire for your

769
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 2: company for trainings and improv exercise and things.

770
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 1: Like that and workshops shops. Well, isn't that the most

771
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: amazing transition I can think of to our next topic,

772
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: which is, of course the comeback season three? Are you

773
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 1: ready to transition?

774
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 2: I would transition? The Comeback season three is relevant, of course,

775
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 2: because Valerie Cherish is working on an AI sitcom.

776
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: She's working on an AI sitcom, and of course she

777
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: feels shame about it because she, you know, marched alongside

778
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 1: everybody else in SAG and the WGA about no AI,

779
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: but here she is working with al So what are

780
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: you feeling towards this season? In a general sense.

781
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 2: The conversation around AI and the arts is really difficult

782
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 2: because things are moving way faster than I ever expected,

783
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 2: And I almost feel like I wouldn't even want to

784
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: sit down and write a TV show that engage with

785
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 2: AI right now, because the environment in which it would

786
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 2: come out, you know, let's say in a year and

787
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 2: a half when it comes out, would be so different

788
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 2: than what we have now, like total already, there are

789
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: some I think it's overall doing a good job, but

790
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: there are even watching it now some elements from like

791
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: I know this was written in twenty twenty.

792
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: Four MM hmmmm hmm.

793
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 2: And it's I think that part of it is the

794
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 2: scariest part to me, that it's like it's moving faster

795
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 2: than human made art production is. So it's actually very

796
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: difficult to comment on it. Whereas something like I don't know,

797
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: influencer culture, which is like the last era of media change,

798
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: which was like you know, algorithmic social media whatever. There's

799
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,760
Speaker 2: there's some genuinely good art about it, Like I think

800
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 2: Ingrid Goes West is like a good movie about influencer culture,

801
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 2: or I don't know, whatever the Black Mirror episodes that

802
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 2: came out during that time, like the one with brycetass Hour.

803
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: Sure sure, kind of like eighth grade almost about like

804
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 1: the girls snapchatting, Yeah, like eighth grade, or like.

805
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 2: I mean, even some of the less grown worthy cancel

806
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 2: culture movies, like even something like Tar Is Yeah is

807
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 2: engaging with the way social media dynamics work. But I

808
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 2: don't know, I have to say, just very briefly, I

809
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 2: just got back from the TED conference, and so much

810
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 2: of the stuff. The way it works that it's five

811
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 2: days and there's just like three sessions each day, and

812
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 2: each session has like eight talks, and it's you know,

813
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 2: it ranges from scientists to people promoting their business, to

814
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 2: artists or whatever. And obviously the number one theme was

815
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 2: AI and you heard it all. You heard people that

816
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 2: were pro you heard people that were like sounding the

817
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,839
Speaker 2: alarm whatever. But like, if there's one thing I took

818
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: away from it as like I'm already so behind in

819
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 2: my understanding of it, and like what it's already doing

820
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 2: that I'm just simply not aware of. I also keep

821
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 2: having conversations with people where I'm like, I don't use

822
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 2: ANYI at all in my life, and I realize that

823
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 2: for everyone else, they've replaced ninety percent of their work

824
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 2: with AI.

825
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're like, you know, a weird bubble. Yeah, because

826
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: I people use it instead of Google. And I'm like,

827
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: I thought the whole thing was like we don't want

828
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: to do that, but it's like such a given that

829
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 1: people do that. No, I feel crazy.

830
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 2: It's completely because we were like in artistic communities, people's

831
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 2: first knee jerk reaction to AI is the kind of

832
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 2: inhumane ethical component and that just simply isn't the first

833
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 2: reaction for most people, for better or worse.

834
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, did anything you see like give you a new perspective?

835
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 1: Or were you like we're fucked.

836
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 2: From a very like humanist perspective, I felt that it

837
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 2: is interesting to see which things become quote unquote better

838
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 2: when they are automated and which things become worse when

839
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 2: they're automated. And I did feel a slight sense of

840
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 2: relief when I would see anything around art and AI

841
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 2: just looks and feels bad and like people can sense it.

842
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 2: I mean, and maybe it will get better and I

843
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 2: will eat my words. But like there was a woman

844
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 2: that like presented her AI art and like it was bad,

845
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 2: like you could, so the vibe around the room I

846
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 2: think was like can you believe this shit? And then

847
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 2: there was like another part of the CEO of Reddit,

848
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 2: who I actually surprisingly really liked, was asked sort of

849
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 2: a kind of throw away question about art and AI,

850
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 2: and he just said something along lines of like well,

851
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: art is by definition made by humans, so there could

852
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 2: never be AI art. But he didn't even say it

853
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 2: as an applause line. He just said, is like a

854
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:23,800
Speaker 2: matter of fact thing, and then it got like a

855
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: huge applause and I was like, Okay, interesting, these people

856
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: that are clearly very AI curious and want to hear

857
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 2: about the new open source AI operating system that this

858
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 2: like Austrian coder invented, are still drawing the line at

859
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 2: art or something like there was. I think when you're

860
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 2: in a space where everyone is so techno optimistic, it's

861
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 2: even more moving to see the things that they like

862
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 2: draw the line with.

863
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's cool, I will say in in the comeback.

864
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 2: Yes.

865
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: I felt like, what was confused? So when we're recording this,

866
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: we have not seen the most recent episode that is

867
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: coming out this Sunday, So we've seen the first four

868
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: five I think five episodes, and the first two episodes,

869
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: I was surprised at how like sort of wishy washy

870
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: they were being like I was like, wait, do you

871
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: like AI? Like I'm actually kind of confused. And then

872
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: I feel like A three was a real turning point

873
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: where it was like, oh, actually because it had the

874
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: director quit and be like AI can move quickly, but

875
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: it can never actually surprise you. Art has to surprise you.

876
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: This only works if it's surprising if there's like I

877
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 1: thought that speech was actually really nice, or it was

878
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 1: like if there's like a gay guy who hates himself

879
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: and a drunk who's hiding it, and like I was like,

880
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: that's awesome. Yeah, And but since then I've kind of

881
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 1: been like, what else is there to say about AI

882
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: other than that?

883
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 2: Well, one thing I like before that, which I think

884
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 2: complicates that speech, is how the audience laugh at the

885
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 2: AI jokes but not at the human written jokes, and

886
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 2: that I think is like a really interesting thing to show.

887
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 2: And it also honestly goes back to like what I

888
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 2: was saying about how people will just like go with

889
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 2: the flow even if something is stupid.

890
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: I do think there's something about Hollywood and like numbers culture, yeah,

891
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 1: where it's like, well, if you're going to the lowest comptnominator,

892
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: you can get that with AI. Actually, Like when you

893
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 1: watch like a shitty TV show that everyone loves, you're like, well,

894
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: that could be AI come completely the good shows that

895
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 1: like not ten million people watch that are like hard

896
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: to make, but that lasts longer, which is kind of

897
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: what goes into every like, if we're doing this short

898
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: form video content, if everything is disposable totally, AI can

899
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: take over, but we're going to need sustenance. We're going

900
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: to need something good and new and real. Hollywood has

901
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: sort of made its bed a bit because sitcoms used

902
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: to be new and exciting, like Seinfeld is exciting, like

903
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: Will and Grace is exciting, and and then like they

904
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 1: they lost it because they were.

905
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 2: Like Cheers, Roseanne, like so many shows.

906
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: We're exciting and just because the form is old doesn't

907
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: mean the jokes can't be new. And they've they've really

908
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: like self censored and makeing it so the jokes can't

909
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: be new, and I'm like, we're down for like a

910
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: basic sitcom. You have to let the people be funny,

911
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:30,720
Speaker 1: so they like kind of don't.

912
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 2: So this is like, this is what I think is

913
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 2: the interesting argument which I think are pointing to, which

914
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 2: is like corporate media not to sound like Bernie Sanders,

915
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 2: corporate media has made it so that the vast majority

916
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 2: of content is so terrible, which then basically sets the

917
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 2: stage for AI being a very adequate replacement for it. Like,

918
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 2: if you are churning out really really bad content, then

919
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 2: why not have it be made by AI. And unfortunately,

920
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 2: as much as I can take it and be like,

921
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 2: we need, you know, human voices, if the thing that

922
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 2: the human voices are creating again filtered through the needs

923
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 2: of corporate media, I'm not blaming the writers, and I'm

924
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: not blaming the artists, but like the end product. If

925
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 2: the end product is so bad, then it's almost like

926
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 2: a self fulfilling prophecy mm hmm, Like it's hard to

927
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 2: put get network sitcoms and be like, you guys are

928
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: missing the magic of you know. Yeah, I mean, I

929
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 2: don't want to say I'm not going to say a

930
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 2: specific show, but there was a tweet from a Deer

931
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: mutual of mine whose handle is Oomph magazine, and he

932
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 2: says media systems have been rewarding safe, low substance and

933
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 2: influencer content for decades to set up the conditions that

934
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 2: will allow creatives to be replaced perfectly palatable AI entities.

935
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 2: A politicism is a cancer delivering its final blow to

936
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 2: the mainstream creative class. Like it's like, right, so we've

937
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 2: all almost like trained ourselves, like we are AI to

938
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 2: create the most inoffensive, low substance content possible, and this

939
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 2: entire time, we have been creating the conditions for our

940
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 2: own replacement. Yeah, totally.

941
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: I do think that comeback works hopefully maybe like maybe

942
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 1: I'm not understanding and maybe where they will stick the

943
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: landing is that it is like a critique of that

944
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: and like a critique of sort of like Hollywood and

945
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:40,839
Speaker 1: the business of like lowest compon denominator and safeness.

946
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because the first season was exactly that.

947
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 2: I mean, they were writing a bad sitcom like roomor Board.

948
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 2: You're meant to believe it is a shitty, low quality sitcom. Yeah,

949
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 2: and it is that way because that is what is

950
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 2: that is what the writers are called upon to do

951
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 2: by the network.

952
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

953
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: And then in the second season it's like whatever, I mean,

954
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 2: it's satirizing the more prestigious stuff. But I mean it

955
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: has always been. It has always been a critique of

956
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 2: the industry, and this is sort of like the latest chapter.

957
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, well, I gotta say I was feeling like

958
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: lukewarm about the show, like warm, but lukewarm about this season,

959
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 1: and this conversation is making me be like, wait, what

960
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: if this is the most genius season of TV that's

961
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:37,280
Speaker 1: ever existed.

962
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 2: I yeah, I feel like it has taken me, you know,

963
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 2: as a true comeback stan, which we both are. It

964
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 2: has taken me a while to like understand the new rhythms,

965
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 2: Like I think the fact that they completely abandoned the

966
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 2: behind the scenes documentary premise, which the comeback always was,

967
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 2: and like the whole found footage thing. Everything they're doing

968
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 2: with the cameras is I meanly confusing.

969
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: They're making me nauseous. I'm like, it is too much

970
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: security cams, social media cam, the documentary crew is still there,

971
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:13,279
Speaker 1: and sometimes just normal TV.

972
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, enough, which I also do think to

973
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 2: state the obvious is intentional, like it is obviously portraying

974
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 2: this world of everything being hyper mediated, nothing being real.

975
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 2: In the beginning, you were like, well, there is some

976
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 2: authentic thing that we're still searching for, but we can't

977
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 2: get to it because culture is so because of the

978
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 2: demands of the culture industry or something. But now it's

979
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:44,840
Speaker 2: like we're done. Like there's no there's no core left,

980
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 2: there's no human core left. Everything is just cameras all

981
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 2: the way down.

982
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I that's true, but I'm sort of

983
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: like it sucks to look at totally. And it's like

984
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: I think they could use some simplifying. It's cocochhone. I'll

985
00:53:58,960 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: take one thing off.

986
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,280
Speaker 2: It's it's very much giving, like this is our final

987
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 2: season when we want to say everything we've ever wanted

988
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 2: to say about and by the way, because they're all older,

989
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 2: like Lisa Kudro and Dan Pukatinski and all of them.

990
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 2: This is like decades of their complaints basically about working

991
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 2: in the industry, and they're kind of like, we have

992
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 2: ten episodes and we're gonna address it all. Yeah.

993
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 1: I also want to say, I do like it is

994
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:32,919
Speaker 1: very with someone like Lisa Kudro. I'm who has had

995
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: like decades and decades of success, you get like, sometimes

996
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 1: I feel like those people are a very skewed view

997
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,720
Speaker 1: of what Hollywood is, what LA is, And I actually

998
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: feel like I'm impressed with how they're being, like, no,

999
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,760
Speaker 1: it's really bleak, like so many people are not working,

1000
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: so many people are so desperate, and I think that's

1001
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 1: like very helpful for them to show. And I'm surprised

1002
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: that they're not like culling punches with that.

1003
00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 2: No, I agree. I think they know they're doing and yeah,

1004
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 2: like and they're and it's sort of like refreshingly ambiguous

1005
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 2: and ambivalent in these ways where it's actually not a

1006
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 2: straightforward morality tale about AI. It is much more about

1007
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 2: how everyone is complicit and no one is even Valerie,

1008
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 2: who you are root. You know, we are all rooting

1009
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 2: for and she's trying so hard to please everyone, but

1010
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 2: ultimately like is not listening to any of the any

1011
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 2: of the voices in her head telling her that this

1012
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 2: is not going to work. Like she's both taking so

1013
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 2: much abuse and doing so many things that she herself

1014
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 2: believes are you know, unethical. There are certain things I

1015
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:45,879
Speaker 2: just I know we've been talking about the AI thing,

1016
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 2: but like in terms of just like basic comedy things

1017
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 2: like there are certain things that I'm loving, like the

1018
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 2: fact that Dan Bukatyinski is always in Tom Brown is

1019
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 2: so funny.

1020
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,359
Speaker 1: I mean, that's really funny. It's like a mean that's

1021
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 1: like a mean by.

1022
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 2: It's it really is. Because I'm sorry, but like we

1023
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 2: know those people.

1024
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: This is such a fucking type. It's like crazy.

1025
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 2: Or like the casting director, Oh I do have one complaint,

1026
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 2: which I will say in a second. But the casting director,

1027
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 2: who like is desperate to work again. It's like tripping

1028
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 2: over herself. After having brunch with Jane Vonda, I was

1029
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 2: so obsessed with Yeah, okay, can I have Can I

1030
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:33,359
Speaker 2: say a little quibble? Quibble? Sure, get your quibi's on,

1031
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 2: Get your quibis on. Girls. No, I love though I

1032
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 2: formerum player of mine, Quibbi love Quibby. So when she

1033
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 2: runs into Jane Fonda at the restaurant, the joke do

1034
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 2: you remember? The joke, of course, is that Valerie goes,

1035
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 2: do you want to like say hi for my socials?

1036
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 2: Don't worry, I don't post anything political, which is like

1037
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 2: the worst thing to say to Jane Fond, who's famously political.

1038
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 2: So then what happens is she turns her phone and

1039
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 2: then Jane Fonda, as a gotcha goes vote. Now here's

1040
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 2: my issue with that. The more provocative way to do

1041
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 2: that joke is for Jane Fonda, who has extremely leftist politics,

1042
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 2: to say something actually controversial, like Fanta to say free

1043
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 2: Palestine in camera. That to me, I was like, this

1044
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 2: is giving studio note. Am I crazy?

1045
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 1: You're not crazy? Sometimes they're really having their kicking it too,

1046
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 1: where it's like you're commenting on a lack of political

1047
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 1: likeness yea in Hollywood, and then you're also being the

1048
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: lack of politicalness, and I'm like, you can't have both.

1049
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 1: You have to like make a splash if you're going

1050
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: to complain about it. I think that's very real. I

1051
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: think there's a lot I like the broader strokes that

1052
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: we were discussing. But I do think in the like

1053
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 1: minutia of the show there's a lot that leaves something

1054
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 1: to be desired and I'm hoping that it all pays

1055
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 1: off the end. But like right now, I'm a little

1056
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: like I'm not trusting them yet. There's something about the jokes,

1057
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: there's something about the casting. Sometimes there's something like unspecific

1058
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: about what's happening where I'm like, did you think this through?

1059
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I trust them in the grand scale,

1060
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 2: Like I bet you this is leading to like the

1061
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 2: best punchline we can imagine. Like I think the finale

1062
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 2: will be amazing because I do think they would not

1063
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 2: have done this if they didn't have something in mind.

1064
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 2: And I think basically it's one of those things where

1065
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 2: like they have this amazing idea, which is value works

1066
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 2: on an AI show, and then when you believe it, it

1067
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 2: ends with X, y Z happening, and then I think

1068
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 2: they have to fill in the episodes until that happens,

1069
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 2: and so do that. It's like okay, which like side characters,

1070
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 2: can we add? What little commentary can we put here?

1071
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 2: Like how many people can do like a fun cameo?

1072
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 2: But I'm overall really liking it. I want to be clear,

1073
00:58:58,360 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 2: and I think we both are.

1074
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm excited to see where it goes. We

1075
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 1: might want to cut this next part, but it's something

1076
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 1: that have you heard that I think I won't post

1077
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: this on her Instagram or someone, Yeah, I will post

1078
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: this on her Instagram. She auditioned for the part of

1079
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 1: like the social media girl for the Comeback, Yeah, and

1080
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: they didn't give it to her because they said they

1081
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: wanted someone unknown. And then the person who's doing it

1082
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 1: is Ben Stiller's daughter, right.

1083
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 2: And I think that's sort of where I'm that's the

1084
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 2: element of all of this where I'm like that the

1085
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 2: Jane fond of it all. I'm like this is this

1086
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 2: doesn't have I think this could have more bite. I

1087
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 2: guess this could definitely have more body or I'll reframe.

1088
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 2: I think the bite that it has about Ai, it

1089
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 2: could have about other elements that it's satirizing.

1090
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, because even that, like the NEPO conversation is like

1091
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 1: a huge conversation and it's like.

1092
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 2: Well, as is celebrities quote unquote speaking out about political issues,

1093
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 2: Like that's like to set up that joke that is

1094
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 2: such a genius setup for Valerie to say like, don't worry,

1095
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 2: I don't pust anything political to Jane Fond that that's

1096
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 2: like genius. It's really not, just like take it one

1097
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 2: step further. But yea, yeah, I mean definitely the NEPO thing.

1098
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 2: I mean, you could. I mean a fun way to

1099
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 2: have your cake and eat it too is to cast

1100
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 2: Ben Siller's daughter, but then have in the show the

1101
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 2: narrative be that she's Ben Siller's daughter. Totally Like, that's genius.

1102
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 2: That's what Kerb would do. Sorry, it's true.

1103
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 1: It's hard because now I watch the show imagining I

1104
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: bewoke in that role. I mean, and I'm like, damn,

1105
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 1: she'd be eating.

1106
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 2: No, she'd be eating.

1107
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 1: But I'm not sure if we're gonna leave that in

1108
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: because I can't tell how much teeth I want to

1109
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 1: have this afternoon.

1110
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I was it five him? God, brother, funny,

1111
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 2: I have done nothing all day.

1112
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: How do you wrap this thing up? Yeah?

1113
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 2: How do we wrap this thing up?

1114
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 1: I guess everyone should stream I Feel So Free by Madonna.

1115
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: You know what song I've been revisiting by Madonna and loving, Actually, Hollywood.

1116
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 2: Great song, so fun. Hollywood is a great song. I'm

1117
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 2: trying to think of, like what I'm opening my Apple Music?

1118
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 2: What have I been listening to? I want to open

1119
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 2: my Apple music. Oh and I want to say on

1120
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 2: record for anyone who listens to our Patreon, I at

1121
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 2: one point recently said that I was on the fence

1122
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 2: regarding the Newslater album when it had just come out,

1123
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 2: and I want to say that I have changed my

1124
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,479
Speaker 2: position entirely. I am now addicted to the Newslater album

1125
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 2: and I'm listening to it constantly. I am so grateful

1126
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 2: to not be sort of left out of this cultural moment.

1127
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 2: I would have felt so much shame if I was

1128
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:06,439
Speaker 2: the one LGBTQ plus American on Earth who didn't quite

1129
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 2: understand it, and it would have made me question a lot. Actually,

1130
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 2: and now I'm listening, I'm having a blast. I also Slater.

1131
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 2: It's like talk about someone who did not get help

1132
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 2: from professional clippers early on in her career. I mean,

1133
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 2: she has been crawling in the dirt cadet Kelly's style

1134
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 2: and she finally has arrived. Yeah, I'm listening to, like

1135
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 2: I said, the nine inch Noise record. I'm loving the

1136
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 2: new Kalala single. I just became aware of a new

1137
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 2: Smurs song that was released today during summer, it has

1138
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 2: literally one thousand plays only. Okay, Shade, I'm still listening

1139
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 2: to Robin.

1140
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: And I'm still listening to Robins.

1141
01:02:56,280 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 2: That's pretty much it. I absolutely I'm loving the Lena

1142
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 2: Dunham memoir.

1143
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna buy that this week.

1144
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 2: And I'm really the one thing I wish I have

1145
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 2: a little more of is like detailed things about like

1146
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 2: the writer's room and how they came up with different storylines.

1147
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: I've been loving the press tour. I listened to her

1148
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 1: on everything she goes on, and I'm enjoying it. She's

1149
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 1: and she's good at switching up the vibe like dare

1150
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 1: I say code switching on the New York Times podcast,

1151
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: She's so business y, she's so fun, but she like

1152
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 1: she's like very serious, and then she'll like put a

1153
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 1: little splash of fun to be like, don't forget I'm funny.

1154
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 1: And then in like lost posterestas I'm laughing, she's having

1155
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 1: a blast, and I was like, this is crazy.

1156
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 2: I feel like people and I'm guilty of this too,

1157
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 2: because she's such a like kooky figure. I'm tempted to

1158
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 2: be to be like oh, she doesn't have her finger

1159
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 2: on the pulse, but she definitionally has her finger on

1160
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 2: the pulse. That's like her thing.

1161
01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 1: She's addicted to the pulse.

1162
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 2: She's addicted to the pole. She knows everything going on,

1163
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 2: and she knows what's funny, and she has a good

1164
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 2: ear for it, and like she gets it.

1165
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 1: She honestly like would be healthier if she could let

1166
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 1: go of the pulse for one second.

1167
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 2: I know, I mean, yeah, it's I mean, she talks

1168
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 2: in the book about how she would like read every

1169
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 2: tweet when people were at their meanness, and I'm like,

1170
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 2: I could not have survived that.

1171
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 1: One thing she did say is that she's like, you know,

1172
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: less than a million people are watching each episode. I'm like,

1173
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 1: that can't be true. I think she's lying. No, I

1174
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 1: think it wasn't. Really it was like a niche hit.

1175
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 1: That's why it was so weird that she was such

1176
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 1: a lightning rod. But it also sort of explains it

1177
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: because I think most people that were talking about her,

1178
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: like legitimately didn't know any of her work. They thought

1179
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: of her as this like random girl that kept making

1180
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: public statements. Meet the girl who can't stop making public

1181
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 1: statement outs.

1182
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I do think that's how many people because

1183
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 2: people would be like I remember at the time being

1184
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 2: on Twitter and everyone would be like, great, another Elena

1185
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 2: Dunham cycle, and it's like, do not talk about her

1186
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,479
Speaker 2: that way. Also, it's almost like because you're saying something,

1187
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 2: because you're saying stuff like that, Yeah, no, I'm I'm

1188
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 2: loving it. And and it certainly is interesting that she's

1189
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 2: talking about Jack Antonov and Lord writing melodrama, which is crazy.

1190
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 2: That is crazy, really puts things into perspective. Shout out

1191
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 2: to an amazing album. So if you listen to that album,

1192
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:30,320
Speaker 2: make sure to donate to Lena Dunham by buying her book.

1193
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 2: By buying her book anything else you've been enjoying. Did

1194
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 2: you like the DT of Saint Louis finale?

1195
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 1: You know, I liked it enough. I felt like it

1196
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 1: was a little lacking. I loved the show, I want

1197
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: to say publicly did. I thought it was such a

1198
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: good show. And I just think the murder plot, it's

1199
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 1: like they never had like a good way to do it,

1200
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 1: and it maybe maybe just needed like a scene, like

1201
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 1: a final scene between David Harbor and the Sun where

1202
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 1: there's like an emotional moment because there was a lot implied,

1203
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 1: but I was like, you kind of gotta define it

1204
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 1: a little more, like I don't like so his son

1205
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 1: just like saw him dancing, and remember another man was.

1206
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:10,720
Speaker 2: Like fuck you, I'm so yeah. I agree.

1207
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's gotta be like, like why wouldn't so

1208
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 1: then he like it was just like there's gotta be

1209
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 1: a little more heightening. It was sorry to spoil for

1210
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 1: anyone who hasn't seen, but I recommend you watch. And

1211
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter how it ends, because I think

1212
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 1: the show itself is great.

1213
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 2: No, it's very good.

1214
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 1: It's very good.

1215
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 2: I just sorry, we can stop what we're gonna say.

1216
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 2: I've just been sort of like dabbling in TV shows

1217
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 2: recently in a way that I have found fun. Like

1218
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 2: I'm not committing to anything, but I'm like, I'm watching

1219
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 2: a couple of episodes of the Dan Levy show that

1220
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 2: our friend Taylor artagas in, Oh, it's like really good.

1221
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 2: And then I like watched the premiere of Margo's Got

1222
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 2: Money Troubles without fanning, and I thought it was like fun.

1223
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: Are you an ad for that show that was targeted

1224
01:06:57,560 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 1: to me? Where it's just Nick Offerman ripping his shirt off,

1225
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 1: and then I.

1226
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 2: Was like, and I almost thank you that Actually.

1227
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 1: That was crazy. I was like, am I really maybe

1228
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 1: be like a high schooler again? To be like, am

1229
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 1: I about to watch a show just because a guy

1230
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 1: is hot in it?

1231
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1232
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 1: This is like so messed up how things can get you.

1233
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 1: But maybe I'll watch it.

1234
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 2: Did you you watched Will and Grace? Right?

1235
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1236
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 2: Do you remember the kid who played Jack's son with

1237
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 2: Rosie o'donald. Yeah, so he plays the like old professor

1238
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 2: that knocks up El Fanning and he is like honestly

1239
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 2: like hot in a in a you know, like late

1240
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 2: thirties whatever, hell ever? Old He is like professor kind

1241
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 2: of way in the show, and he's like partly naked

1242
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 2: in the sex scenes. And I was like, I can't

1243
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 2: believe how old I am that. I'm like that, I'm

1244
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 2: like Jack's son from Will and Grace is daddy.

1245
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 1: That's so crazy. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.

1246
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 1: It's it's nuts.

1247
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 2: Did you recognize him or did you like fu?

1248
01:07:58,560 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1249
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:01,960
Speaker 2: Him, because he's like, yeah, he's thirty eight, he's around

1250
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 2: he's actually married to Maya Erskine from ten fifteen.

1251
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, interesting, I didn't know that.

1252
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's hot as hell.

1253
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 1: Shout out.

1254
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 2: I mean it's much more my type than yours. But oh,

1255
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 2: any woods, he's doing his working, all right.

1256
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 1: All right, Well, everybody go to your local cinema and

1257
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:29,759
Speaker 1: see Blue Heron.

1258
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yes, Blue Heron is so good. Did

1259
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 2: you see that? It's literally being called the most acclaimed

1260
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 2: movie of the year.

1261
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 1: It did stay bad crazy. I mean, that's amazing. I

1262
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: mean it's genuinely amazing. It's so touching. I was blown away.

1263
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:46,600
Speaker 2: I was proud of us for like doing back to

1264
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 2: back episodes of people promoting Erupsia and Blue Heron, Like

1265
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:54,880
Speaker 2: you're sort of in our criterion bag. Yeah.

1266
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 1: If anyone else has prestige indie movie coming out and

1267
01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:01,600
Speaker 1: wants to do the poda, well yeah, if it's a

1268
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:06,480
Speaker 1: good one, well yeah, prestige parenthese is good.

1269
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 2: Okay, folks, Well go see Sam's shows in La New York.

1270
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 1: Yes, and your your shows coming up as well.

1271
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 2: That's well, I'm for the fall, but I okay, it's

1272
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 2: going to be a while until I announced, But you're

1273
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 2: about to announce your tour, that's true, So.

1274
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 1: Keep those eyes peeled because that I'm waiting for one

1275
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 1: ticket link and then I'm gonna post them all and

1276
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 1: an announcement.

1277
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 2: But I will say that as someone who was actually

1278
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:38,639
Speaker 2: recently looking at your link tree because I was seeing

1279
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 2: what venues you're doing. They're already up, that's you just

1280
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 2: haven't announced them yet.

1281
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 1: I wanted everything in place. I'm doing a Madonna style.

1282
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, go Street, And we were being very critical

1283
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 3: to you, but I want to say I support Madonna

1284
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:02,560
Speaker 3: and I support the comeback immensely, and I I'm.

1285
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 2: Rooting for all women, and.

1286
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 1: I support Cameron Winter and I you know, the Geese

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01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: album didn't quite connect with me, but I do love

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01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 1: the Camera Winter album and I stand by that. And

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01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to connect to Geese one day.

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01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 1: But that album didn't quite do.

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01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 2: It for me. Off Yeah, and I will try the

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01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 2: Camera Winter album again. And I must say, if I'm

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01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:23,640
Speaker 2: being honest, I don't connect to any of that music whatsoever.

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01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 2: And I do think it's sort of a SI lump. Okay, bye,

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01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 2: okay bye podcast And now for our visual learners. You

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01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 2: can watch full video episodes on our YouTube channel.

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01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:40,800
Speaker 1: And subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month.

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01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 2: At Patreon dot com. Slash Stradio Lab.

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01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 1: Stradio Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money

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01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 1: Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.

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01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 2: Created and hosted by Me, George Severis and Sam Taggart.

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01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 1: Executive produced by Jenna Cagel, co produced by Becca Ramos, edited.

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01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 2: By Laurence Thump, and mixed and mastered by Doug Bain.

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01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:00,639
Speaker 1: Artwork by Michael Failes and Matt Grubb. Music by Ben

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01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 1: Kling

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01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 2: M HM