WEBVTT - Aoife O’Donovan 0:00:15.516 --> 0:00:22.036 Pushkin Today, we have Efa a Donovan on the show, 0:00:22.196 --> 0:00:25.316 and to be honest, couldn't have been better timing. Only 0:00:25.316 --> 0:00:27.916 a handful of days ago Grammy nominations came out and 0:00:27.996 --> 0:00:31.996 our guest Today was nominated for two awards, Best Folk 0:00:32.036 --> 0:00:35.556 Album for her All My Friends record and Best American 0:00:35.636 --> 0:00:39.076 Root Song for the album's title track. Ifa is a 0:00:39.116 --> 0:00:42.916 wonderfully prolific singer and songwriter from the Americana tradition, who 0:00:42.956 --> 0:00:47.276 perhaps also surprisingly has an academic background, having studied improvisation 0:00:47.436 --> 0:00:51.156 at the New England Conservatory of Music. Over the years, 0:00:51.156 --> 0:00:54.876 she's performed with many different groups and with orchestras and symphonies, 0:00:55.316 --> 0:00:57.716 and since twenty ten she's put out a handful of 0:00:57.716 --> 0:01:02.036 beautiful solo works. Her latest Grammy nominated effort, All My Friends, 0:01:02.276 --> 0:01:04.996 is a gorgeous set of songs inspired by the life 0:01:04.996 --> 0:01:08.796 and work of suffragist Carrie Chapman Kat and celebrates the 0:01:08.876 --> 0:01:11.996 hunt year anniversary of women securing the right to vote 0:01:12.036 --> 0:01:16.596 in the US through the nineteenth Amendment. Innipha's conversation with 0:01:16.636 --> 0:01:19.396 Bruce Headlam on today's episode, you'll hear more about how 0:01:19.436 --> 0:01:22.596 the project crystallized for her and some of the challenges 0:01:22.676 --> 0:01:27.476 it posed. She'll also play some songs, so enjoy and 0:01:27.756 --> 0:01:34.116 EFA congratulations on the Grammy Knot. This is broken record 0:01:34.436 --> 0:01:42.356 liner notes to the digital age. I'm justin Ritchman. Here's 0:01:42.396 --> 0:01:44.356 Bruce Headlam and Efo Donovan. 0:01:45.396 --> 0:01:49.556 Let's start with your new album this year, All my Friends. 0:01:49.636 --> 0:01:52.676 Can you tell me about the the genesis of it, 0:01:52.756 --> 0:01:54.796 how it started, where it came from. 0:01:55.236 --> 0:01:59.756 Yes, I made this album over the last several years. Actually, 0:01:59.796 --> 0:02:02.316 it was the longest sort of extended period of time 0:02:02.356 --> 0:02:06.596 I've spent making one album. The music started with this 0:02:06.636 --> 0:02:08.316 little seed of an idea that I got from the 0:02:08.396 --> 0:02:11.676 Orlando filharm Orchestra. They commissioned me to write a piece, 0:02:11.836 --> 0:02:15.956 a twenty minute piece or you know thereabouts, of music 0:02:16.636 --> 0:02:19.516 honoring the Nineteenth Amendment, in memory of the Nineteenth Amendment, 0:02:19.636 --> 0:02:21.836 having something to do with the nineteenth Amendment. It could 0:02:21.836 --> 0:02:23.436 really be whatever I wanted it to be. It didn't 0:02:23.476 --> 0:02:25.756 have to have text, it didn't have to be anything 0:02:25.836 --> 0:02:28.996 other than that I had to write it. So with 0:02:29.116 --> 0:02:32.596 that framework in mind, I wrote the first five songs 0:02:32.956 --> 0:02:35.596 on All my Friends, the first five songs that became 0:02:35.636 --> 0:02:38.076 All my Friends, and then kind of sat on that 0:02:38.156 --> 0:02:40.596 performed it. With Orlando, performed it with the Knights in 0:02:40.636 --> 0:02:42.756 Central Park, performed it with a couple of orchestras, and 0:02:42.916 --> 0:02:46.636 never really thought it would turn into an album, but 0:02:46.836 --> 0:02:49.236 it did. I was commissioned then by Freshcrass Festival to 0:02:49.316 --> 0:02:52.236 write another collection of songs that I tied into the 0:02:52.316 --> 0:02:54.876 original five, and that is what the album is. 0:02:55.316 --> 0:02:57.916 Had you ever written orchestral music before? 0:02:58.036 --> 0:03:03.196 I hadn't, and I had, you know, performed with orchestras 0:03:03.236 --> 0:03:07.116 in the past. I have charts for my pre existing repertoire, 0:03:07.516 --> 0:03:10.476 but I had never written songs the intention for their 0:03:10.596 --> 0:03:14.236 you know, their original form to be orchestral, and so 0:03:14.316 --> 0:03:17.116 it was. It was a pretty daunting task. I was 0:03:17.116 --> 0:03:19.556 so lucky to work with an orchestrator and arranger, this 0:03:19.596 --> 0:03:22.156 woman named Tanner Reporter, who really helped me take my 0:03:22.316 --> 0:03:25.036 melodic and harmonic ideas and she is the one who 0:03:25.036 --> 0:03:27.116 put them on the page and wrote those kind of 0:03:27.716 --> 0:03:30.516 wacky woodwind parts that I could never you know, who 0:03:30.516 --> 0:03:31.956 knows what cleff those guys are in. 0:03:32.436 --> 0:03:35.116 H Yeah, I know they use those two in between claffs. 0:03:35.156 --> 0:03:37.556 So it's just like it's the tenor cleff. Like you're done. 0:03:37.636 --> 0:03:39.356 It's like Viola's to the same. 0:03:39.556 --> 0:03:41.596 Exactly child too, Cleff, I think is viola. 0:03:41.276 --> 0:03:45.396 But yeah, okay, one of those. Uh so it sounds 0:03:45.396 --> 0:03:48.396 like a theater piece in a way. Was it ever 0:03:48.556 --> 0:03:50.436 conceived of as like were people ever going to be 0:03:50.516 --> 0:03:52.196 on stage doing it in character? 0:03:52.876 --> 0:03:56.276 No, that was never my intent. It's funny. I feel 0:03:56.276 --> 0:03:57.916 like I was sort of this this theater kid in 0:03:57.996 --> 0:04:00.396 high school, but I was really always just a musician 0:04:00.436 --> 0:04:04.436 because I am actually a horrible actor, and I was always, 0:04:04.516 --> 0:04:06.436 you know, the last person in the callback. It was 0:04:06.436 --> 0:04:08.836 always between me and one other person. And the only 0:04:08.836 --> 0:04:10.476 reason I was there is because I could sing. But 0:04:10.836 --> 0:04:12.956 I never got those lead roles because in the end 0:04:13.436 --> 0:04:15.756 I would start laughing or break the fourth wall or 0:04:15.876 --> 0:04:18.516 just lose my pool. And it was never never for me. 0:04:18.716 --> 0:04:19.916 That's not what they needed in maime. 0:04:21.796 --> 0:04:23.916 The The funny thing about All My Friends is that 0:04:23.956 --> 0:04:26.076 it came out in March, which is the same month 0:04:26.156 --> 0:04:29.516 that a great Broadway show about suffrage also went up 0:04:29.516 --> 0:04:32.156 by Shanna tab called Seffs. And it's been cool to 0:04:32.196 --> 0:04:33.476 sort of have people come up to me and say, 0:04:33.476 --> 0:04:36.196 have you heard of this? This musical stuffs and it's 0:04:36.236 --> 0:04:37.916 you know, really dealing with a lot of the same topics, 0:04:37.916 --> 0:04:40.556 although a pretty a different, a different, you know, more 0:04:40.636 --> 0:04:42.676 nuanced to take obviously, I think she did. She went 0:04:42.716 --> 0:04:46.916 way deeper into the story and really created full storylines 0:04:46.916 --> 0:04:48.796 for all of these historical characters, minus more of a 0:04:48.876 --> 0:04:51.796 kind of I wouldn't say surface level, but it's a 0:04:51.916 --> 0:04:53.876 it's a miniaturized version of that. 0:04:54.116 --> 0:04:58.476 Okay, but it was. Your songs were inspired by one particular, Yes, Suffragett. 0:04:58.876 --> 0:05:02.196 Can you tell me suffragist? I'm sorry, no, it's okay, Wow, 0:05:02.716 --> 0:05:04.556 am I am? I out of date? 0:05:04.716 --> 0:05:07.876 I was corrected actually initially by somebody who sent me 0:05:07.876 --> 0:05:10.156 a very nice email at the very beginning of this. 0:05:10.156 --> 0:05:11.836 This is many years ago when I first started even 0:05:11.876 --> 0:05:13.436 talking about that I had been commissioned to do this, 0:05:13.876 --> 0:05:16.356 and I was using the term suffragette, and she said, 0:05:16.356 --> 0:05:18.076 you know, I think that you might want to look 0:05:18.116 --> 0:05:19.996 into this because I really believe that the term that 0:05:20.516 --> 0:05:23.236 is more sort of accurate is suffragist, because you know, 0:05:23.276 --> 0:05:27.236 putting ette is maybe a diminutive, it's not necessarily. 0:05:26.876 --> 0:05:31.036 Yeah, yeah, okay, So tell me about the woman who. 0:05:30.876 --> 0:05:34.996 Inspired Carrie Chapman. Kat is who inspired a bunch of 0:05:35.036 --> 0:05:36.836 songs on this record. And I was really able to 0:05:36.996 --> 0:05:44.276 use her just her experience, her womanhood, her the tenacity, 0:05:44.396 --> 0:05:47.156 and the way her speeches, her letters, her words, her 0:05:47.236 --> 0:05:50.556 voice to kind of really that that's really what gave 0:05:50.596 --> 0:05:52.396 me the kind of the legs that I needed to 0:05:52.516 --> 0:05:55.996 really get this piece moving. I was reading a book 0:05:55.996 --> 0:05:58.196 called The Woman's Hour by Elaine Weiss, a great writer 0:05:58.356 --> 0:06:01.756 who was also a consultant on the musical stuffs, and 0:06:02.116 --> 0:06:04.556 it opens really with the story of Carrie Chapman Kat 0:06:04.756 --> 0:06:08.156 being at the forefront of the final days of marching 0:06:08.156 --> 0:06:11.356 to get the thirty six state their ratification of Tennessee, 0:06:12.036 --> 0:06:15.796 and sort of her involvement, her take. And when I 0:06:15.836 --> 0:06:18.596 went and started kind of googling it and looking into it, 0:06:18.636 --> 0:06:21.316 I found so much text that she had written, so 0:06:21.356 --> 0:06:23.996 many speeches and all these letters and correspondences that she 0:06:23.996 --> 0:06:27.316 had had, and I was really just moved by them, 0:06:27.476 --> 0:06:29.116 and her voice just seemed to kind of jump off 0:06:29.116 --> 0:06:31.356 the page, and I wanted to sing these words. 0:06:32.036 --> 0:06:35.996 What was that like, trying to write to someone else's voice. 0:06:36.036 --> 0:06:37.756 I don't know if you've really done that before. Well, 0:06:38.676 --> 0:06:42.076 you've done songs in other people's voices, but in this way. 0:06:41.956 --> 0:06:44.396 Setting, Yeah, it was difficult, But I think what made 0:06:44.436 --> 0:06:46.676 it easier, honestly, is the fact that when I wrote 0:06:46.676 --> 0:06:50.036 this music initially, I wrote the music first. I didn't 0:06:50.076 --> 0:06:52.796 start with text. I didn't actually even at that point 0:06:53.156 --> 0:06:56.116 the arrangements the charts needed to get made. This is 0:06:56.436 --> 0:06:59.196 November December of twenty twenty. The piece was supposed to 0:06:59.236 --> 0:07:01.676 be premiered in May of twenty twenty one. I needed 0:07:01.716 --> 0:07:03.636 to get the arranger of the music so that the 0:07:03.716 --> 0:07:06.476 arranger could start arranging it, so that the orchestra could 0:07:06.476 --> 0:07:09.076 get it, to do the markings and start learning it. 0:07:09.876 --> 0:07:12.636 So at this point I was working on my previous album, 0:07:12.636 --> 0:07:15.876 Age of Apathy, and coming out of a real deep 0:07:16.036 --> 0:07:19.316 writer's block, you know, kind of dark I don't even 0:07:19.356 --> 0:07:21.396 want to write anything. I have nothing to say period 0:07:21.396 --> 0:07:24.996 in my life. And I somehow managed to like find 0:07:24.996 --> 0:07:27.076 the inspiration to write the music and kind of get 0:07:27.076 --> 0:07:29.116 the basic idea of what I wanted to do these 0:07:29.116 --> 0:07:30.676 five songs that were going to kind of connect with 0:07:30.716 --> 0:07:32.596 each other, but I wasn't sure exactly what the text 0:07:32.636 --> 0:07:34.436 was going to be. And it wasn't until a few 0:07:34.476 --> 0:07:38.996 months later that I kind of got the meat for 0:07:39.076 --> 0:07:41.396 the story and really put it together that way. 0:07:41.596 --> 0:07:45.276 So when you were writing those charts without this character, 0:07:45.476 --> 0:07:48.236 without these songs, were you were you writing a top one? 0:07:48.276 --> 0:07:49.076 Were you doing a melody? 0:07:49.156 --> 0:07:50.596 I was doing a melody, yup, And I did have 0:07:50.636 --> 0:07:52.876 some placeholder lyrics, and some of the songs did have 0:07:52.916 --> 0:07:54.836 some lyrics all my friends. The first song had the 0:07:54.876 --> 0:07:58.636 first verse. I was really just sort of envisioning that 0:07:58.916 --> 0:08:02.596 that sort of just that idea of all my friends, 0:08:02.596 --> 0:08:04.196 you know, you come and go and there are highs 0:08:04.196 --> 0:08:06.916 and lows in your life, and kind of it could 0:08:06.916 --> 0:08:08.556 really apply to anything. And I ended up making it 0:08:08.596 --> 0:08:11.196 much more socific as the song went on, and the 0:08:11.236 --> 0:08:14.356 song daughters also were you know, you're really am not 0:08:14.436 --> 0:08:16.676 singing from Carry Chapman Kat's perspective, that's kind of from 0:08:16.676 --> 0:08:19.876 my own perspective looking back, and that that song had 0:08:19.956 --> 0:08:21.836 maybe half of the lyrics in, but the other the 0:08:21.876 --> 0:08:24.516 other three were just total just melody, melody lines and 0:08:24.916 --> 0:08:28.516 harmony lines and melodic ideas and harmonic structure. 0:08:28.876 --> 0:08:33.316 You may be the first songwriter to put words I'm 0:08:33.316 --> 0:08:37.116 sorry put a melody to the words by Woodrow Wilson. 0:08:39.316 --> 0:08:41.556 I really noted lyric. 0:08:41.396 --> 0:08:44.596 Right, It's really funny. You know, he's a really complicated 0:08:44.996 --> 0:08:49.956 character in American history. And a lot of negative connotations. 0:08:49.996 --> 0:08:52.196 And he was not, you know, by no means a 0:08:52.236 --> 0:08:55.276 great a great guy, but he really was an ally 0:08:55.316 --> 0:08:57.436 of the suffragists. And it's it's interesting to sort of 0:08:58.596 --> 0:09:00.836 from historical lens, say, Okay, there are these people in 0:09:00.876 --> 0:09:03.756 our country's history who really sucked in many ways. But 0:09:03.876 --> 0:09:06.556 what did they do to advance this cause even while 0:09:06.556 --> 0:09:09.116 they may have been pushing back other causes for justice. 0:09:09.316 --> 0:09:11.276 It's it's something that I think we do have to 0:09:11.276 --> 0:09:12.916 grapple with as Americans, right. 0:09:12.996 --> 0:09:14.716 And the song is called war Measures. 0:09:14.716 --> 0:09:16.116 The song is called war measure, and it comes from 0:09:16.156 --> 0:09:19.716 a letter that he wrote to Carrie Chapman Kat responding 0:09:19.716 --> 0:09:23.556 to her, and he's saying, Okay, you know, the women 0:09:23.836 --> 0:09:26.276 are a war measure. We could not win the Great 0:09:26.316 --> 0:09:29.036 War without women staying home on the front lines, at 0:09:29.036 --> 0:09:31.836 home and and sort of picking up the slack. And 0:09:31.996 --> 0:09:34.756 that was his angle, one of his angles to say 0:09:34.756 --> 0:09:37.036 that you know, you guys deserve the vote because look 0:09:37.076 --> 0:09:38.356 at all the stuff you're doing here. 0:09:39.036 --> 0:09:41.756 He felt it was a debt. He kind of owed them, 0:09:42.436 --> 0:09:45.796 and that was that sort of was that a political 0:09:45.876 --> 0:09:47.916 argument he was making, like I've got to make this 0:09:48.076 --> 0:09:49.796 argument and this might work. 0:09:49.916 --> 0:09:51.796 I think it's hard to say exactly what the what 0:09:51.836 --> 0:09:54.996 the motive was. I feel like it's you can really 0:09:55.076 --> 0:09:57.356 apply it to today too. There are so many, you know, 0:09:57.596 --> 0:10:00.356 people have their hands in so many different pockets and politics, 0:10:00.436 --> 0:10:04.276 and and how do you please everybody without alienating this other, 0:10:04.516 --> 0:10:08.676 you know, without alienating your base, so to speak. Right, So, 0:10:09.116 --> 0:10:11.636 I'm not sure, but that song is kind of one 0:10:11.676 --> 0:10:13.796 of my favorite ones to sing because it's I kind 0:10:13.796 --> 0:10:15.836 of tried to make it kind of like a body 0:10:16.196 --> 0:10:19.516 sort of like raucous, kind of barroom type of song. 0:10:19.516 --> 0:10:23.076 It's still obviously very folky, but with the brass, and 0:10:23.116 --> 0:10:25.836 it's it's a fun one to do live, you know. 0:10:25.876 --> 0:10:31.076 Speaking of people with complicated legacies, a lot of the 0:10:31.116 --> 0:10:35.956 original suffragists, Susan B. Anthony and some of the slightly 0:10:35.996 --> 0:10:39.916 more famous ones at one point separated their cause from 0:10:40.276 --> 0:10:45.476 African American enfranchisemen. But Carrie Chapman Cat didn't. She's interesting 0:10:45.476 --> 0:10:45.956 in that way. 0:10:46.036 --> 0:10:49.236 She didn't. But she also was separate from a younger 0:10:49.316 --> 0:10:53.636 kind of cohort of suffragists. And there were many different 0:10:53.676 --> 0:10:56.756 factions of the whole movement, and I think it's just 0:10:56.836 --> 0:10:59.756 it's a lesson that gosh, it's so hard to get 0:10:59.796 --> 0:11:04.396 anything done. And I feel that somebody like Carry Chapman Kat, 0:11:04.636 --> 0:11:07.316 who you know, we don't know her, she's no longer here, 0:11:07.636 --> 0:11:11.356 but after the nineteenth meant she did become a big 0:11:11.436 --> 0:11:14.956 champion of the civil rights cause and was involved in 0:11:14.956 --> 0:11:18.636 that after she had, you know, helped to pass this legislation. 0:11:20.196 --> 0:11:21.716 I don't know, it's yeah, it's it's sort of hard 0:11:21.756 --> 0:11:23.956 to sort of look back and cast judgment for me 0:11:24.116 --> 0:11:26.236 as a as a human being. And that's that's been 0:11:26.276 --> 0:11:28.116 a difficult thing as I've kind of done this record, 0:11:28.116 --> 0:11:29.836 because there there have been people who have stood up 0:11:29.836 --> 0:11:31.956 and say, well, why you know she somebody who stood 0:11:31.996 --> 0:11:35.516 up at a show recently and kind of called me 0:11:35.556 --> 0:11:37.676 out for saying that, why did you choose to highlight 0:11:37.796 --> 0:11:40.116 Carrie Chapman Kat and why didn't you choose to do 0:11:40.156 --> 0:11:42.356 this in the voice of I to b Wells, And 0:11:42.396 --> 0:11:43.916 I was sort of like, well, I think that would 0:11:43.956 --> 0:11:46.396 have created a whole you know, you kind of can't 0:11:47.236 --> 0:11:50.676 necessarily right, I don't know. 0:11:50.636 --> 0:11:53.836 What I'm saying, right, but that would be that's an awkward. 0:11:53.836 --> 0:11:55.796 That would be another sort of awkward situation. 0:11:55.916 --> 0:11:57.476 Yeah, that's that's a different awkward. 0:11:57.236 --> 0:11:59.756 But initially I actually had wanted to do that. I 0:11:59.796 --> 0:12:02.276 had wanted to make this piece be from five different 0:12:02.356 --> 0:12:05.756 suffragists perspective, and that's something that maybe I'll do down 0:12:05.756 --> 0:12:07.556 the road. And I think that Shina did that pretty 0:12:07.556 --> 0:12:10.636 well in Stuffs, where she really did take all those characters, 0:12:10.636 --> 0:12:12.396 and again, that's a much that's sort of like a 0:12:12.436 --> 0:12:16.716 life's work type of piece. But this is my sort 0:12:16.716 --> 0:12:19.356 of first dip, dipping my toes in the water of 0:12:19.436 --> 0:12:24.676 even anything topical. And at the end of the day, 0:12:24.956 --> 0:12:27.516 I think my statement is that I'm just a singer. 0:12:27.556 --> 0:12:29.116 I'm just a folk singer, and this is sort of 0:12:29.156 --> 0:12:32.476 my way of telling this story through my own art form, 0:12:32.556 --> 0:12:35.476 which is ultimately folk songs. Me and a guitar singing 0:12:35.476 --> 0:12:38.036 these songs, trying to connect them with people, with the 0:12:38.036 --> 0:12:39.876 audience and with the musicians that I'm playing with. 0:12:40.196 --> 0:12:43.356 You mentioned that the last day to ratify the nineteenth 0:12:43.356 --> 0:12:46.276 Amendment was or the state that. 0:12:46.396 --> 0:12:49.116 The thirty six stage they made it the law yes. 0:12:49.076 --> 0:12:53.516 Was Tennessee, and she did not. And she was pushed 0:12:53.596 --> 0:12:56.836 to argue against giving black women the vote because that 0:12:56.956 --> 0:12:58.956 probably would have passed through the leasier but she didn't 0:12:58.956 --> 0:13:01.236 do that right now, she did say some things about 0:13:01.236 --> 0:13:04.476 an interracial marriage and some other things. She was a 0:13:04.516 --> 0:13:07.156 creature of the nineteenth century. Far from perfect. 0:13:07.316 --> 0:13:09.956 It's true, It's true, and just sometimes I think a 0:13:09.996 --> 0:13:13.996 lot about what these women were dealing with and what 0:13:13.996 --> 0:13:16.956 they were experiencing as they were growing up. And there's 0:13:16.956 --> 0:13:19.916 another song on the record sort of much more from 0:13:19.916 --> 0:13:22.516 my perspective called Someone to Follow. But I really started 0:13:22.516 --> 0:13:26.556 that song thinking about what were the mothers of the suffragists, Like, 0:13:26.916 --> 0:13:30.276 who were the women that raised these women who ended 0:13:30.356 --> 0:13:33.836 up really changing the world, and were they Was there 0:13:34.076 --> 0:13:37.436 feminism championed by their own mothers and grandmothers? I mean 0:13:37.596 --> 0:13:40.876 likely not in most cases, but I suppose we'll never 0:13:40.956 --> 0:13:41.916 quite know the answer to that. 0:13:42.356 --> 0:13:42.556 Well. 0:13:42.596 --> 0:13:47.236 In the case of Carrie Chapman Kat, she had sort 0:13:47.236 --> 0:13:50.956 of a traumatic life exactly growing up. She wasn't wealthy. 0:13:51.756 --> 0:13:56.036 Her first husband died very soon after they were married. 0:13:55.796 --> 0:13:57.516 Right when she went to San Francisco, and he died 0:13:57.516 --> 0:13:58.476 pretty soon after that. 0:13:59.796 --> 0:14:03.396 So you know, it wasn't she didn't have an easy life. 0:14:03.236 --> 0:14:04.836 No, and she really had to overcome a lot to 0:14:05.316 --> 0:14:07.516 sort of And there's a song actually called the Right 0:14:07.556 --> 0:14:10.396 Time that's kind of about my imagining of her early 0:14:10.396 --> 0:14:11.836 life and how she kind of got through that. 0:14:12.436 --> 0:14:14.876 I thought that was a very interesting song because so 0:14:14.956 --> 0:14:20.396 many of the other songs are they're not marching songs exactly, 0:14:20.396 --> 0:14:22.476 but they're kind of exclamatory and what are we going 0:14:22.516 --> 0:14:25.436 to do? And suddenly you have this song where it's 0:14:25.716 --> 0:14:28.396 more self conscious and it's questioning. 0:14:28.076 --> 0:14:29.836 Right, when is it going to be the right time? 0:14:30.076 --> 0:14:34.476 Is that something you got from her letters, from speeches 0:14:34.636 --> 0:14:36.796 or is that just something you tried to imagine. There 0:14:36.876 --> 0:14:40.876 must have been a point in which this complete powerhouse 0:14:42.116 --> 0:14:46.076 thought to herself, is this going to work? 0:14:46.756 --> 0:14:50.036 That really is from my imagination that song. But I 0:14:50.116 --> 0:14:53.516 think that any strong woman can relate to that idea 0:14:53.556 --> 0:14:55.916 of even whatever the facade is, whatever the front is, 0:14:55.916 --> 0:14:58.716 even if you're the most confident, successful person in the world, 0:14:58.796 --> 0:15:02.516 you obviously have moments of self doubt or of wondering, 0:15:03.396 --> 0:15:05.236 am I on the right path? Is this the right 0:15:05.276 --> 0:15:08.156 thing to do? Will anybody remember me after I go? 0:15:10.076 --> 0:15:11.516 Is it my time? Is it my time? 0:15:12.996 --> 0:15:13.956 Do you want to give us a song? 0:15:14.556 --> 0:15:14.836 Sure? 0:15:15.076 --> 0:15:15.396 All right? 0:15:15.596 --> 0:15:16.476 Don't you just play that song? 0:15:16.716 --> 0:15:17.956 Song? Play any song you like? 0:15:18.036 --> 0:15:19.316 Great? This is so fun. 0:15:48.916 --> 0:15:50.956 And it easy to cn. 0:15:55.196 --> 0:16:03.156 My particle Sharlock movies. Try to lose a lamb all 0:16:03.196 --> 0:16:15.596 the way, don't care anything, love it Bell. I'm a 0:16:15.836 --> 0:16:23.756 fuck woman. I keep matching. He'll turn. 0:16:28.196 --> 0:16:32.436 Farewell, Long Charge City. 0:16:34.076 --> 0:16:35.636 I geese something to talk of. 0:16:35.756 --> 0:16:50.316 Bell's gonna be the red time, Better's gonna be the 0:16:50.476 --> 0:16:53.196 retime berator. 0:17:02.756 --> 0:17:11.756 I feel my pal growl the personal thick skin. 0:17:15.636 --> 0:17:22.756 I'm gonna moan bottle baby, They'll give. 0:17:22.676 --> 0:17:33.836 Him something to think about. What's gonna be time be 0:17:37.236 --> 0:17:38.996 W's gonna be the red. 0:17:38.916 --> 0:17:56.836 Time, That's gonna be the rod, That's gonna be the RITI. 0:18:03.876 --> 0:18:15.356 A good said Francisco with the cool acles down. See 0:18:16.956 --> 0:18:18.476 the Golden Gate. 0:18:18.556 --> 0:18:19.756 Sings so bad? 0:18:23.276 --> 0:18:30.596 Will you miss me when I'm gone? Will you miss 0:18:30.676 --> 0:18:36.356 me when I'm gone? Will you miss me? 0:18:36.636 --> 0:18:47.156 Will you miss me? And gonna be time? 0:18:47.956 --> 0:18:49.996 Mill Rotside. 0:18:51.916 --> 0:18:59.636 Gonna be the right side, gonna. 0:18:59.396 --> 0:19:06.236 Be the rights are mill ROTSI gonna be the right 0:19:06.396 --> 0:19:08.796 side mill ROTSI. 0:19:20.756 --> 0:19:24.036 It's beautiful. I won't turn this into a masterclass, but 0:19:24.076 --> 0:19:25.636 I want you to walk me through the first few 0:19:25.756 --> 0:19:28.836 chords of that. Okay, for our guitar. 0:19:28.716 --> 0:19:33.236 Set, there some drop d M and I'm kind of 0:19:33.236 --> 0:19:37.476 playing like an f shape with the low D and 0:19:37.556 --> 0:19:45.316 the base and capo five and then walking up a 0:19:45.356 --> 0:19:47.516 lot of hammer on ye and then kind of there 0:19:47.556 --> 0:19:49.196 was on the record. There's kind of like a little 0:19:50.076 --> 0:19:51.276 harmonica part that's like. 0:20:03.836 --> 0:20:06.076 And capo and the fifth threat. For those playing along 0:20:06.076 --> 0:20:08.516 at home, yep, okay, let's find out where all that 0:20:09.716 --> 0:20:12.156 we're all that great figurant picking came from. 0:20:13.476 --> 0:20:16.156 We'll be right back with more from Efo Donovan after 0:20:16.196 --> 0:20:23.116 the break. We're back with more from Efo Donovan. 0:20:23.876 --> 0:20:25.676 Did you grow up in a musical family? 0:20:25.796 --> 0:20:29.076 I did. I grew up both my parents are musicians. 0:20:29.116 --> 0:20:33.116 My father was an incredible singer, guitar player, radio host. 0:20:33.476 --> 0:20:34.636 He was a professional music. 0:20:34.556 --> 0:20:37.196 He was a professional well he was a professional music guy. 0:20:37.476 --> 0:20:40.956 He had a radio program on WGBH and was a 0:20:41.116 --> 0:20:44.756 much beloved member of the Boston music community. He's from Ireland. 0:20:45.036 --> 0:20:49.196 He passed away about a year ago, very sadly, and 0:20:49.476 --> 0:20:51.636 we missed him so much. He was really the person 0:20:51.676 --> 0:20:54.596 who I would say both of my parents were kind 0:20:54.636 --> 0:20:58.276 of my biggest cheerleaders and champions growing up playing music, 0:20:58.316 --> 0:21:01.796 and unlike many people who grew up with musician parents, 0:21:02.036 --> 0:21:05.076 I really wanted to be them. I wanted to have 0:21:05.156 --> 0:21:08.476 their life. I loved their social life, their music community, 0:21:08.516 --> 0:21:10.796 their friends. They would always have you know, bands staying 0:21:10.836 --> 0:21:13.636 at our house. They would always have these epic music 0:21:13.676 --> 0:21:15.076 parties at their house where my mom would play the 0:21:15.076 --> 0:21:16.956 piano and people were just standing around the piano singing 0:21:16.996 --> 0:21:19.396 all night. And when I was in high school, my 0:21:19.436 --> 0:21:21.396 friends and I we would like it was like a 0:21:21.476 --> 0:21:23.316 cool thing. At least I guess I thought it was cool. 0:21:23.396 --> 0:21:27.276 Maybe it wasn't, but I'm so glad that that it 0:21:27.316 --> 0:21:29.596 turned out that way and that I didn't rebel against it, 0:21:29.636 --> 0:21:31.796 and you know, only want to, I don't know, do 0:21:31.876 --> 0:21:32.796 something totally different. 0:21:33.196 --> 0:21:36.276 Was it traditional Irish music they played my not really. 0:21:36.316 --> 0:21:38.836 My dad's radio show is mostly traditional Irish music, but 0:21:38.876 --> 0:21:41.236 it's it's really just kind of songs, kind of like 0:21:41.236 --> 0:21:44.196 the culture of a sing song. You know, anybody who 0:21:44.316 --> 0:21:46.836 spent time in Ireland and in kind of that community 0:21:47.676 --> 0:21:49.876 knows that phrase. There's a thing that people do called 0:21:49.876 --> 0:21:52.076 the sing song. And my whole dad's extended family we 0:21:52.396 --> 0:21:54.036 love a sing song where you just get around and 0:21:54.036 --> 0:21:56.556 everybody kind of has their cover that they sing their song, 0:21:56.756 --> 0:21:58.836 and my mom notes all the songs on the piano, 0:21:58.916 --> 0:22:00.676 or somebody passes around a guitar and you just kind 0:22:00.676 --> 0:22:02.436 of it's like a jam basically a jam, but a 0:22:02.516 --> 0:22:05.436 jam with all singing and no instrumentals and no solos. 0:22:05.756 --> 0:22:08.916 What was your first sing song performance? 0:22:09.436 --> 0:22:12.156 My well, my first. 0:22:12.436 --> 0:22:14.996 Maybe very happy. The answers like tainted Love or something 0:22:14.996 --> 0:22:15.276 by it. 0:22:15.356 --> 0:22:16.796 Well, no, you're going to laugh at this. So when 0:22:16.836 --> 0:22:19.796 I was much younger, one of my favorite songs to 0:22:19.836 --> 0:22:22.556 sing that I really sang first at karaoke at the 0:22:22.556 --> 0:22:25.996 Inchridoni Hotel, and I think it was like nineteen ninety four, 0:22:26.276 --> 0:22:29.596 maybe I was probably like eleven or twelve. I sang 0:22:29.636 --> 0:22:30.116 Leader of. 0:22:30.076 --> 0:22:35.916 The Pack, Wow A mad him at the Candy Star Fabulous. 0:22:36.156 --> 0:22:37.996 I got to bring I got to bring that back. 0:22:37.996 --> 0:22:39.436 I just realized I need to bring that one back 0:22:39.476 --> 0:22:40.716 from my karaoke repertoire. 0:22:41.076 --> 0:22:43.036 So that's the first song you did Leader the Pack, that. 0:22:43.396 --> 0:22:45.596 Is in the first batch. But as I got a 0:22:45.636 --> 0:22:47.676 little bit older, I really used to love to sing 0:22:48.156 --> 0:22:49.836 the Dimming of the Day. That was one of my 0:22:49.996 --> 0:22:51.636 party pieces that I would do with my parents. 0:22:51.676 --> 0:22:57.116 Richard Thompson's song Okay, any other Richard I've We've interviewed 0:22:57.196 --> 0:22:58.476 Richard Thompson we're going to do it again. 0:22:58.636 --> 0:23:01.836