WEBVTT - Trump Loses on Tariffs & Sending Troops Into Los Angeles 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.000 This is Bloomberg Law with June Grossel from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:11.959 If I didn't send the National Guard into Los Angeles, 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:14.720 you wouldn't I would be making an announcement today, I'd 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:18.440 be talking about Huntsville, and I'd simultaneously be saying, by 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:21.560 the way, the Olympics is not coming to Los Angeles. 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:25.440 But a federal judge has found there was no rebellion, 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.600 nor was civilian law enforcement unable to respond to the 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:33.400 protests and enforce the law in Los Angeles. This summer, 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:38.400 Judge Stephen Bryer ruled that the Trump administration wilfully violated 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:42.639 federal law by deploying National Guard troops and US Marines 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:46.640 to carry out local law enforcement in Los Angeles. In 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:50.000 a scathing ruling, Briar noted that Trump has stated his 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:54.400 intention to deploy National Guard troops to other cities across 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:58.920 the country, raising concerns that Trump is creating a national 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.960 police force with the president as its chief. And today 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:07.000 in the Oval Office, Trump confirmed that Chicago is next 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.920 that he'll direct federal law enforcement intervention to combat crime 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:17.360 in Chicago, despite staunch opposition from state and local officials. 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:21.920 If the governor Illinois would call up, call me up. 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.480 I would love to do it. Now we're going to 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:26.720 do it anyway. We have the right to do it 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.200 because I have an obligation to protect this country and 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:35.199 that includes Baltimore. I saw where Governor Moore was asking 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.400 me to take a walk down the street of Baltimore. Well, 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:39.760 Baltimore is a very unsafe place. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:45.600 Illinois Governor JB. Pritzker reiterated today that crime is down 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.320 in Chicago and that the city doesn't need, nor does 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:51.480 it want, federal troops there. 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:57.160 None of this is about fighting crime or making Chicago safer. 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:01.440 None of it. For Trump, it's about testing his power 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.880 and producing a political drama to cover up for his corruption. 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:11.079 If you need any proof of this that it's all 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:12.639 a big show. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:17.079 My guest is constitutional law expert Harold Krant, a professor 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:21.000 at the Chicago Kent College of Law. Hal is judge 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:27.080 Briar's decision a complete refutation of Trump sending troops into 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:27.960 Los Angeles. 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:32.320 It's a partial reputation, and indeed, just Buyer's order allows 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:37.000 the military to remain. What he has done is delineate 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:40.760 what they can and cannot do. And so this is 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.520 an effort by the judge this steer clear of the 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.880 earlier Ninth Circuit decision which lifted a day on his 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.720 earlier preliminary injunction. So the court here is trying to 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.280 be careful in trying to say what the National Guard 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.239 can do and can't do. And it's up to the 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.440 Ninth Circuit to react, and I'm sure they'll react one 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:00.000 way or the other. 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.239 But how didn't he find that sending the National Guard 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.560 in was a violation of the Passikamatatis Act. 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.359 He did, but he said that there were some duties 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:15.600 that the federalized National Guard could in fact undertake consistent 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.720 with the pass Coomatatas Act, but that the fact was 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.680 that he made a factual finding that the troops had 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.840 done more than that they had engaged in general law 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:30.240 enforcement activity, which she said was proscribed under the Pussikamatatis 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.880 Act and tradition. So he made it more narrow nuanced 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:37.520 finding that they had previously saying he didn't even question 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.440 the ability of the President to federalize the National Guard 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.640 against the governor's wishes, which obviously took place earlier in 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.360 the year. But he said, even if the president can 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:53.880 do that, they can't engage in general law enforcement activities, 0:03:53.920 --> 0:04:01.040 including covering ice agents, including dispersing crowd and so forth. 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:01.840 So it's a. 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:06.840 More narrow decision than he issued previously, and we'll see 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:08.800 how the Ninth Circuit again reacts to it. 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.720 So he said, there were indeed protests in Los Angeles 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:16.880 and some individuals engaged in violence, yet there was no rebellion, 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.800 nor was civilian law enforcement unable to respond to the 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:22.679 protests and enforce the law. 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.040 There was really two sides. The earlier had ruled that. 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.719 The President lacked authority to federalize the National Guard because 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.440 of the reasons you suggested, And so he is trying 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:36.040 to create a decision, in my mind here that is 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.760 consistent with the broad principles he articulated, previously limiting the 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:44.480 president's abilities to nationalize the Federal Guard, but then, realizing 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.840 that the Ninth Circuit had overruled him in part previously, 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.840 then decided to add more granually that even if the 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:55.560 President could nationalize the National Guard, that they could not 0:04:55.839 --> 0:05:00.640 engage in sort of typical law enforcement authority, which he said, 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:05.479 including you know, dispersing crowds, including protecting ice agents and 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.560 so forth. But I think the consensus has been that 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:15.359 the president cannot nationalize the National Guard. You know, unless 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:19.880 all typical law enforcement has collapsed, you can't enforce court 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:24.560 orders or there's an insurrection, and obviously those two things 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.320 are not in place in Los Angeles. In my mind, though, 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:32.440 this is a sideshow because President Trump continually says that 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:36.240 he can federalize the National Guard and send them wherever 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.599 he wants, to include Chicago, just for ordinary criminal law enforcements. 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.880 So it's clear that there's a clash between the Court's 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:47.640 view of the limits of the president's authority under the 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.560 Pasi Comatatus Act and what the President thinks he can 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.719 do and has continually espoused he can do in terms 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.800 of federalizing the troops at a moment's notice. 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:03.640 The judge cited us he span broadcast of Trump's August 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.760 twenty seventh Cabinet meeting where he discussed sending the National 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.640 Guard into Chicago and said, quote, I have the right 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:11.160 to do anything I want to do. 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.040 So Judge Briar cited. 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:19.120 That, and then he expanded his order beyond Los Angeles 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:20.800 to all of California. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.279 You're currently limited the order to California, but decided that 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:29.360 because California itself was a plaintiff, he was empowered to 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:34.120 extend the relief to grant protection to the plaintiff in 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:34.520 the case. 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:36.480 Do you think that went too far? 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:41.120 Well, My only concern about the Court's opinion is that 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.760 the Court seemed to be dismissing the present's sort of 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.280 inherent authority as a statutory matter. I think the Court 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.440 is on strong ground, both historically and in terms of 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:55.000 textually of understanding the limits of the passe comatatus Act. 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.840 I think the Court was a little bit quick in 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:02.200 terms of dismissing the presence sort of inherent authority under 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.880 the Commander and Chief clause of the Constitution. Clearly, presidents 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.120 have to make tough costs, tough calls in terms of 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:13.920 lias on street, tough cause in terms of potential invasions 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.880 and so forth, and so if the president is said, 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:21.520 we need to protect federal buildings, we need to protect 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:26.320 federal instrumentalities, I think that article to itself might give 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.600 the president arguably does give it the president that kind 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:33.120 of authority to order troops to protect those even if 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.640 states say they don't need it. So that's not at 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:40.400 stake here, and President Trump's news conference clearly illustrates that 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:43.480 that's not at stake here. But I think that might 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:47.920 be a weakness in the Court's opinion, because I do 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.040 think that the chief executive has to make those tough 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.640 calls if there are threats in the president's mind to 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.240 federal instrumentalities within the States. 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:00.880 What Trump has said today is there are lots of 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:05.080 murderers in Chicago, and crime is up in Chicago, and 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:06.520 they're going in. 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:07.760 But he didn't say when. 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.520 But there's absolutely no justification for what the President say 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.679 he's going to do in Chicago, which is even more 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:20.400 indefensible than what he did in California. And I would 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.760 expect that the mayor of Chicago, Mayor Johnson, and the 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:27.480 governor of Illinois, Governor Pritsko, will immediately go to court 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.400 not only cite the most recent Judge Briar decision, but 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:34.600 cite just more convincingly that the President has acknowledged the 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:38.360 purpose for why he's sending in troops into Chicago, and 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:42.120 that's absolutely prohibited by the pussy com pat effect under 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.240 any construction of the terms of the statute. 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:52.560 So Judge Briar's decision has no effect in Illinois correct, 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:56.920 But is the reasoning strong enough to apply to Illinois. 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:01.960 I think that reasoning will over the same situation, and again, 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.120 Chicago is an easier case. And I think that to 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:09.760 the extent that the President would say that ICE agents 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:13.640 are under attack and that Key as Caman achieved, can't 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.720 ensure an orderly function of immigration processes in this country 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.520 without calling in supportive troops. That would be the strongest 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:25.720 sort of justification that I can understand in the California context, 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.800 for the use of either the federalized National Guard or 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.920 for the Marines. But he clearly in Chicago's basically is 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.520 that I don't even need that justification. I can send 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.000 troops wherever I want, whenever I want, because I'm the 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:40.920 President of the United States. And that downright is frightening. 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.600 Not only is it clearly outlawed by the pussy Coomatata 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.360 fact and by the history that led to the Act, 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.400 but it's a huge step towards autocracy. 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.120 What if he just instead of sending in the National 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:58.560 Guard or military troops, if you just sent in lots 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:04.079 and lots of federal agbi dea ice, Is there any 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:04.839 a problem with that? 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:05.480 Legally? 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:09.000 There may be pockets of restrictions, but I think ordinarily 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.640 that would be within his power, and certainly he can 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:17.040 shift FBI agents over to EIST as temporary details. He 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.640 has the power to do that under prior statute. So 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.240 in that respect he could accomplish at least some of 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:27.079 his goals. But again, he could not engage those FBI 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:30.640 agents in terms of taking over for general law enforcement 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:33.840 for Chicago, because the FBI is not authorized. The EE 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:39.720 agents aren't authorized to deal with conventional robbery, theft, et cetera. 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:41.800 That are state crimes, not federal crimes. 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.640 So the Insurrection Act is an exception to the posse 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:46.760 comma tatis law. 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:49.800 That's correct. And so if he would deem that we 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.600 are under insurrection, I don't even know what the theory 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.080 would be in Chicago. But if he says that there 0:10:55.360 --> 0:11:01.559 is an insurrection because undocumented worker are rising up in 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.839 arms against the authority, or he would say that some 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.200 other kind of indirection is taking place, then he could 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:12.080 justifiably use federal troops. He has not made that claim, 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:16.439 and indeed one is very far fetched given the facts 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:17.480 as we know them. 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.280 Now, and particularly in light of the fact that he 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:26.120 did not declare an insurrection on January sixth of twenty 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.319 twenty one. Coming up next on the Bloomberg Lawn Show, 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.640 I'll continue this conversation with Professor Harold Krant of the 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:37.040 Chicago Kent College of Law. So what can Illinois governor 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.920 and Chicago's mayor do? I'm June Gross. When you're listening 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:45.600 to Bloomberg. President Donald Trump said today that he'll direct 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:50.720 federal law enforcement intervention to combat crime in Chicago, despite 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.959 staunch opposition from Chicago's mayor and Illinois governor. 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:56.000 Well, we're going in. 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:57.760 I didn't say when we're going in. 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.120 We know before anything has happened here that the Trump 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:06.280 plan is to use any excuse to deploy armed military 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:11.280 personnel to Chicago. If someone flings a sandwich at an 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:13.920 Ice agent, Trump will try and go on TV and 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:15.640 declare an emergency in Chicago. 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.160 I've been talking to Professor Harold Krent of the Chicago 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.120 Kent College of Law. So how before the break, we 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.880 were talking about Judge Briar's decision that the Trump administration 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:30.280 willfully broke federal law when they sent National Guard troops 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:34.079 to Los Angeles, and we were talking about the Insurrection 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.640 Act and that that's an exception to the Posse Comitatis 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.280 Act that Judge Briar said the president could have invoked. 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.520 Judge said, if the president wants to avoid the act's restrictions, 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.960 he must invoke a valid exception like the Insurrection Act, 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.640 along with its requisite showing that state and local law 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.400 enforcement are unable or unwilling to act. 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.040 But when we had riots in the wake of the 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.679 sesssination of Martin Luther King, whom he had the unrest 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.880 because of the George Floyd murder, arguably local law enforcement 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.000 could not take the helm and preserve law and order. 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.880 And that is an exception of the Putico Tatus Act. 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:18.000 And indeed, the courts would be in difficult position if 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.800 the president made a careful finding that that is why 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:24.800 he is sending troops, that there is no local law 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.680 enforcement that can take care of law enforcement activities. He's 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.040 never made that finding, and given the fact that the 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:33.480 clim has gone down into these like Washington, d C 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:38.320 in Chicago, it's simply far fetched, which is understandably why 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:42.240 he doesn't want to make that kind of specific finding. So, yes, 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:46.120 presidents have sent in troops, and President Trump could in 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:50.840 the future respecting Congress, but not in these situations. Obviously, 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:55.680 the Constitution ascribes a principal role to Congress and deciding 0:13:56.160 --> 0:14:01.559 when to introduce the military into civil in situations. Congress 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:03.800 has done so in the Passacacomma Titus Act as well 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.000 as the limitations in the Insurrection Act. And that's the 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:11.520 role that the Constitution gives to Congress, and pusident Trump 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.360 is just writing luckshot over the constitutional structure. 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:19.080 The mayor of Chicago and the governor and other officials 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:23.160 held this press conference, and is there anything that the 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:27.080 governor or the mayor can do to stop him from 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.560 federalizing the National Guard? I mean, the National Guard is 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.600 supposedly under the governor's control, right, absolutely. 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.520 But there are circumstances where the president can federalize the 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.960 National Guard. And at this point they may preemptibly go 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.600 to court. I'm sure they're discussing it both in terms 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.160 of filing lawsuit before the President sends troops or they'll 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.560 wait them out and at the first sign of when 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.600 the President does introduce troops into the streets of Chicago, 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:55.840 then they'll run into the federal. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:59.040 Court and hope for the best. I think they will. 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:03.240 Receive a favorable reception in the Seventh Circuit in this area. 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:04.360 But time will tell. 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.560 Suppose they started using the National Guard for other things 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:11.320 in Chicago or in Illinois, cleaning up the streets of 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.840 every town or something like that. Suppose they just use 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:15.160 the National Guard themselves. 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:17.440 Yeah, I mean, the governor can do that, and the 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.480 governors in the past, have you used the National Guard 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.480 to help enhance the safety of their communities, But absent 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.160 the governor's directions, that president lacks the authority to do 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.520 so except for these delineated exceptions that Congress has carefully 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:31.760 fought through, And it would be up to the courts 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.400 then to respect that dividing line between Congress and the 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.600 President at least. Otherwise we're going to have not a 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.480 separation of powers of three equal branches, but everything will 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:43.160 be totally dominated by one branch. 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.840 And that's something that the Framers were very cognizant. 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.640 About, the fear of having one branch exceed too much 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.560 power to its own, and that's what we're confronting in 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:53.280 the near future. 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.040 Tell us what the Ninth Circuit ruled before. 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.120 It's said that it really difficult for courts of second 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:07.360 guests a justification by the President that there was simply 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:13.040 not sufficient local law enforcement to protect federal undertakings. In 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.920 this case, the federal undertakers, of course, were the Ice 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:20.680 agents attempting to round up undocumented individuals and sending them 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:23.880 out of the country. And so the court decided two. 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.080 To one to not weigh in and say that they 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:28.560 have a hearing on whether. 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.400 Or not the president's justification was pretext or not. And 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.640 so again the District Court here, Judge Bryer cleverly said, 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.720 even if that's true, that the president has violated the 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:44.400 comatatis Statute because it has not limited the use of 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.040 the troops for those permissible functions. So they didn't want 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.800 to get into pretext or non pretext, but rather just 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.480 said that what in fact the troops did in Los 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:58.480 Angeles exceeded their permissible bounds under the statute. 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.040 So, I mean, if the Seventh Circuit follows the Ninth Circuit, 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.000 then they wouldn't stop the troops from coming in. 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.159 I don't think that's going to happen. I mean, I 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.240 think that it obviously depends on what district court judge 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:14.200 gets the case. Once it's filed, assumably by Governor Pritzker, 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:18.919 But I think that the logical outcome here is different 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.080 because of the fact that there's no fig leaf. The 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.639 President has not even come close to complying with the 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.800 Postacoma Thomas Act. He's just said local law enforcement time 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:33.680 and a time at news conferences and not even suggesting 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:38.160 that there's an insurrection or a failure of the state 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.840 and local government to comply with judicial commands. So I 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.960 think the role is quite clear here in a lawsuit 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:49.479 is simply issue an injunction to say here outside your 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.520 lane and it would be up then into the Seventh 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.040 Circuit if there is an a junction to determine whether 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:56.920 to grant it or not, and I think they would 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:57.320 uphold it. 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:02.160 And Judge Bryer said something that really resonates in light 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.440 of the fact that President Trump has talked about Chicago 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:11.080 and next Baltimore and New York. He said, it raises 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.960 concerns that they're creating a national police force with the 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.000 president as its chief. And that's what it seems to 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:21.199 be because it's about crime, which is usually a local issue. 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.679 Yeah, it's one thing for the president as quasi governor 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.040 for DC to decide what's needed to maintain law and 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.240 order on DC streets. Obviously that's very controversial in his 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:33.480 own but it's another thing for him to do that 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:38.280 in states where there are governors trying to displace ubernatorial authority. 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:40.480 And of course, if you step back and look at this, 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.119 you know the President has said he's doing this in Chicago, 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.000 maybe New York, maybe Baltimore, But you don't hear about 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:52.200 New Orleans, Memphis, Saint Louis, places with higher crime rates 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:56.520 that are in Republican states. So again, to think about 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:00.840 what the president's accomplishing here, he's trying to flexis muscles 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.720 in a way which creates an incredibly dangerous precedent for 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:04.719 the entire country. 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.280 Well, let's hope it doesn't happen. If it does, there's 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:10.639 certainly going to be a lot of litigation about it. 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.960 Thanks so much, Hal. That's Professor Harold Krent of the 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.560 Chicago Kent College of Law, coming up next on the 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:21.159 Bloomberg Law Show. A federal appeals court has ruled that 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:25.920 President Trump had no legal right to impose sweeping tariffs 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:29.480 on almost every country. But the next stop is the 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:34.160 Supreme Court. I'm June Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg. 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:39.399 A federal appeals court has ruled that President Donald Trump 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:43.800 had no legal right to impose sweeping tariffs on almost 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:47.359 every country. In a seven to four ruling, the US 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.760 Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit found that Trump 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:55.399 overstepped his authority under an emergency powers law. It's a 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.920 major legal blow, but it largely upheld a made decision 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.200 by a special federal Trade court in New York. 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.320 But it's a liberal court and it's going up to 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:10.280 the Supreme Court, who I think have been incredible people. 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:15.560 I think they've made very wise decisions. But the tariff question, 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:20.680 because without the tariffs' countries in serious, serious trouble. We've 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:24.440 taken in. Almost seventeen trillion dollars of investment is coming in. 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:26.920 Most of it is come in because of tariffs. 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:31.479 The appeals court didn't strike down the tariffs immediately, allowing 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:35.760 the administration until mid October to appeal to the Supreme Court, 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:39.639 although Trump says they'll do so immediately. My guest is 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:42.840 Jimmy Garul, a professor at Notre Dame Law School and 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:46.880 the former Undersecretary for Enforcement at the Department of the Treasury. 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.560 Jimmy will you explain why the Federal Circuit Court of 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:52.960 Appeals ruled against Trump's tariffs. 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:56.120 Well, first let me meet us back up. So on Friday, 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:57.960 as you state of, the US Court of Appeals for 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.520 the Federal Circuit affirmed a lower court decision by the 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:05.520 Court of International Trade. That decision was issued back in May, 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:09.080 and in that decision, the Court of International Trade set 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:13.560 aside five executive orders issued by President Trump that imposed 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.879 tariffs of unlimited duration on nearly all goods from merely 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:22.080 every country across the globe. So that decision was affirmed, 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.160 and the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:30.159 held that AIPA the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, that 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:35.119 the authority under that statute to authorize the President to 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.080 regulate and this is an important term in the statute, 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:43.440 regulate imports. Does not authorize President Trump to impose tariffs 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:48.360 under either the reciprocal tariffs or the drug trafficking tariffs. 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:53.600 And so largely it was a statutory construction issue before 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:57.359 the court. And again the specific issue focused on this 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:02.200 term regulate and specifically that AIPA authorized as a president 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:06.760 to regulate imports and whether or not that authority includes 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:10.359 the authority to impose tariffs, and the Federal Court said, no, 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:10.920 it does not. 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:15.399 So they didn't get into, you know, his claims about 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:17.879 the tariffs that they were to try to settle the 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:21.959 trade imbalance and the importation of fentenol. 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:23.480 Do they reach that at all? 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:27.600 No, there really wasn't. It focused again on this particular language, 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:30.240 you know, the term regulate and what's the scope of 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:30.880 the meaning. 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:31.320 Of that term. 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:35.440 The court went on, you know, focusing on statutory construction 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:39.960 and look to other statutes that Congress had enacted that 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:44.640 authorized the president to impost tariffs and said, well, look, 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:51.120 with those federal statutes, Congress had imposed requirements on when 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:56.320 the president could impose tariffs and imposed limitations and said, well, 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:58.520 that's not the case here. You know that there were 0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:03.200 very very few, you know, limitations on the president's authority 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:07.360 to impost tariffs under iepis has been leveraged by by 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:11.320 President Trump. They talked about legislative intent, that there was 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:15.959 no legislative intent and the statute to authorize the President 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:18.840 to impose triiffs. They highlighted the fact that the word 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:23.399 tariffs does not appear anywhere in the statute and therefore, 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:27.600 from a statutory construction perspective, the Court said, you know, no, 0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:31.720 IPA doesn't provide the president of that authority. Now, having 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:35.400 said that, there were a couple of additional interesting arguments 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:39.080 that the Federal Court race. You know, one, they talked 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:42.720 about something called the major questions doctrine, and they said 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:46.280 that under the major questions doctrine, the Supreme Court has 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:50.480 held that if there is an asserted delegation of authority, 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:55.040 or if the president the executive branch is claiming that 0:23:55.200 --> 0:24:00.679 Congress has transferred certain authority to the executive branch, if 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:03.840 based upon the history in the breast of that authority 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:08.800 that it would have vast economic and political significance, and 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:13.360 that's the term, you know, economic and political significance, then 0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:17.879 there must be clear congressional authorization for the asserted power. 0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:21.879