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Speaker 1: The volume. The Colin Cowherd Podcast brought to you by

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Speaker 1: Fan Duel. It's never been easier to play fantasy on

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Speaker 1: Fan Duel. Will the love basketball, golf, soccer, or any

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Speaker 1: fantasy sport. There is a contest for every fan Fan

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Speaker 1: Duel more Ways to win. Hi, everybody, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Wednesday Morning Podcast. Bob Costas, twenty eight Emmys, will

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Speaker 1: be joining us in about five minutes. At the start

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Speaker 1: of baseball season. We thought he was a fitting guest.

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Speaker 1: Some thoughts on baseball's opening day. Some of the sentimental

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Speaker 1: folk out there think it's the right time to celebrate

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Speaker 1: our national pastime. My favorite pastime, though, is pointing out

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Speaker 1: what's wrong with sports and then offering my sage advice

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Speaker 1: on how to fix it. Three ways baseball can improve.

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Speaker 1: There's nine hundred and twenty seven different ways for time.

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Speaker 1: Will do three? Number one, eliminate the defensive shift. In

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Speaker 1: other sports, we have areas on the field or court

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Speaker 1: where players are not allowed to go for extended periods.

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Speaker 1: Soccer and hockey, the goal crease, football, the neutral zone

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Speaker 1: NBA the three second rule for defensive players. Major League

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Speaker 1: Baseball should institute rules to limit the number of players

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Speaker 1: on a given side of the field. More offense, more

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Speaker 1: base runners, more plays at the plate, more action. That

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Speaker 1: leads me to my second fix, lower the mound. Pitchers

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Speaker 1: are bigger than ever. Go back to nineteen fifty, the

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Speaker 1: average pitcher was six feet tall and one hundred eighty

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Speaker 1: nine pounds. He's now closer to six three or six

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Speaker 1: four and over two hundred bigger guy, meaning his release

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Speaker 1: point closer to the plate. You have to do something

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Speaker 1: to offset this change, and since you can't cut off

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Speaker 1: a guy's feet, at least try lowering the mound. On

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Speaker 1: the subject of shortening things, let's start with a season.

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Speaker 1: Urgency makes everything better. The only urgency is fighting out

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Speaker 1: when to leave the stadium and beat the traffic. One

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Speaker 1: hundred sixty two games. Really, baseball is a warm weather game.

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Speaker 1: We don't need it in April and we don't need

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Speaker 1: it in November. Ever been plunked on the hands with

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Speaker 1: a baseball and a wintery day, you know what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about. Make the season one hundred and twenty games,

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Speaker 1: end it the moment it gets chilly, and get out

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Speaker 1: of the way of the more popular sports like the

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Speaker 1: NFL and college football. Now, let's dig into baseball. Bob

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Speaker 1: cost Us now joins US broadcaster for NBC Sports for

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Speaker 1: an early forty years. Twenty eight. Emmys now calls games

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Speaker 1: for the Major League Baseball Network and serves as a

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Speaker 1: contributor to CNN. So you know, it's funny when you

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Speaker 1: live in a city like Los Angeles, I tend to watch.

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Speaker 1: When I lived in the Northeast, Bob, I watched a

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Speaker 1: lot of Yankee baseball. It was kind of I just

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Speaker 1: turned it on throughout the summer. I'd listen. And now

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Speaker 1: I live in Los Angeles and I was looking at

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Speaker 1: one of the Dodgers acquired Trevor Bauer with Clayton Kershaw,

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Speaker 1: Walker Bueller, David Price, Julio Arius and a lineup, a

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Speaker 1: batting lineup that one through seven has power. I thought,

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Speaker 1: is this a top five baseball team? Ever, it reminded

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Speaker 1: me a little bit of the Conseco McGuire a's where

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Speaker 1: Tony Phillips hit like ninth. If I say, I mean

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Speaker 1: now again, they won last year, they add Trevor Bauer,

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Speaker 1: and who knows how that works in the locker room.

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Speaker 1: He could be a chemistry issue. But if I said

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Speaker 1: to you, empirically, the best baseball team you've ever seen

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Speaker 1: roster position one to twenty five? What is it? Wow?

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Speaker 1: If I'm going to confine that to the teams I covered,

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Speaker 1: So let's start in the eighties. Really, okay, when I'm

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Speaker 1: at NBC and I'm doing the Game of the week,

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Speaker 1: and that's sort of thing. Larussa's A's who only won

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Speaker 1: one of the three series that they were in, which lowers,

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Speaker 1: at least to the casual fan, lowers their place in history.

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Speaker 1: Same thing is true of the truly great Baltimore Oriole

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Speaker 1: teams of the late sixties early seventies under A Weaver,

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Speaker 1: when three in a row, somehow lose to the miracle

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Speaker 1: Mets in sixty nine, win in seventy against the Reds,

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Speaker 1: are up three games to one against the Pirates in

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Speaker 1: seventy one, and it slips away. Those two are two

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Speaker 1: of the greatest teams I've ever seen. But I would

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Speaker 1: have to say, if you'd just boil it down to achievement,

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Speaker 1: you'd have to say the Tories Yankees of ninety six

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Speaker 1: through two thousand would be the team peeking in ninety

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Speaker 1: eight when they won one hundred fourteen and then just

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Speaker 1: blew right through the postseason, they won twelve consecutive World

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Speaker 1: Series games. Think about that, maybe was fourteen. I know

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Speaker 1: it's fourteen because they were down Z two to the

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Speaker 1: Braves in ninety six and a big underdog, and then

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Speaker 1: they won the next four. Then in ninety eight they

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Speaker 1: swept the Padres. That's eight. In ninety nine the Braves

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Speaker 1: are back at it, very good team, they swept them.

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Speaker 1: That's twelve. And then if I'm not mistaken, they win

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Speaker 1: the first two games against the Mets in two thousand,

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Speaker 1: and the Mets win game three, and then the Yankees

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Speaker 1: win the next two to win it in five. So

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Speaker 1: they win what they win sixteen out of seventeen World

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Speaker 1: Series games, including fourteen in a row. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: gotta go with them. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I

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Speaker 1: grew up generationally with the Reds of seventy five. But

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Speaker 1: what's interesting now, the bottom of the line app had

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Speaker 1: virtually not only no power, no hitters. In Dave Concepsio

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Speaker 1: and says our Geronimo, the pitching staff was largely guys

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Speaker 1: with junk outside of Don Gulland yeah, I think it

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Speaker 1: shows you if you look now. By the way, it

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Speaker 1: was a great high school football player in Kentucky. If

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Speaker 1: you look now at baseball and the quality of rosters now,

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Speaker 1: there are obviously, on some of the lower payroll teams,

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Speaker 1: there's some junk, there's some borderline triple laced off. But

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Speaker 1: at the highest end, I think the sport is fortified

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Speaker 1: with the most talented players I've ever seen. I truly

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Speaker 1: believe that, am I off. I don't think you're far off.

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Speaker 1: There is an abundance of great young talent, and there

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Speaker 1: has never been more athleticism in baseball than there is now.

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Speaker 1: You know, it sounds like a broken record. The problems

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Speaker 1: in baseball are not problems of talent. They're problems of

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Speaker 1: the game as an entertainment product. And I'm sure you've

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Speaker 1: discussed that iNFiNiT item on your own program at what's

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Speaker 1: good for analytics or what analytics tells you is good

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Speaker 1: as an approach is not good for baseball as an

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Speaker 1: entertainment product. But if you could just boil it down

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Speaker 1: to highlights, there is no way that if you took

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Speaker 1: ten games from the nineteen sixties, which is my childhood

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Speaker 1: era of baseball, that will always mean something to me

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Speaker 1: because of the way it hit me when I was

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Speaker 1: that age. If you look at just the highlights of

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Speaker 1: baseball games from the sixties and the highlights of ten

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Speaker 1: baseball games now, those highlights are going to be a

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Speaker 1: lot more impressive now. And before we go on, the

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Speaker 1: team we overlooked is one of those teams that never

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Speaker 1: won it. But think of how good the Cleveland Indians

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Speaker 1: were in the mid nineteen nine Oh God, I think

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Speaker 1: of that lineup in nineteen ninety five. They only played

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Speaker 1: one hundred forty four games because they started late at

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Speaker 1: the back end of the strike that had blown out

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Speaker 1: the end of the ninety four season. It took out

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Speaker 1: part of the beginning of ninety five. They go one

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Speaker 1: hundred and forty four. Jim Tomy I think is hitting

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Speaker 1: the sixth for them. Their lineup was just incredible, the

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Speaker 1: young Manny Ramirez and Albert Bell and Kenny Lofton and

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Speaker 1: Igniter at the top of the lineup, and bay Araga

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Speaker 1: was an offensive force, and Vaskel was other than Nazi Smith,

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Speaker 1: the best I've ever seen for an extended period at shortstop,

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Speaker 1: but a little bit like your Cincinnati Reds, only so

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Speaker 1: so pitching wise, but offensively a powerhouse. Listen, I would

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Speaker 1: contend any more encyclopedic than me that the Mets for

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Speaker 1: a very brief time, and yes, they had some regrettable,

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Speaker 1: unredeemable personal issues, but the Keith Hernandez Mets were a

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Speaker 1: fascinating team of grinders, all world talent. I mean again,

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Speaker 1: it's you weren't sure if some guys slept the previous night,

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Speaker 1: But in terms of raw talent, I think it's one

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Speaker 1: of the one of the greatest baseball teams for a

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Speaker 1: brief time I've ever seen. Yeah, and to a man,

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Speaker 1: they will tell you that they still can't quite understand

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Speaker 1: how they only won one World Series and it took

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Speaker 1: something of a miracle for them to win that one

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Speaker 1: against the Red Sox in eighty six. As another one

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Speaker 1: of my parenthetical asides, I don't think there's ever been

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Speaker 1: a better baseball postseason overall than eighty six, the Angels

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Speaker 1: and the Red Sox in the ALCS, the Mets and

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Speaker 1: the Astros with a sixteen inning Game six in the NLCS,

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Speaker 1: and then all the twists and the turns of that world.

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Speaker 1: But you think about the Met team you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: They went to the wire in eighty five with Whitey

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Speaker 1: Herzog's Cardinals and again in eighty seven. So the Cardinals

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Speaker 1: go to the World Series in eighty five and eighty seven.

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Speaker 1: The Mets win in eighty six and they run into

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers, and everybody thinks of the miracle with the

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Speaker 1: Kirk Gibson home run, But it was a smaller miracle

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Speaker 1: for them to get past the Mets because during the

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Speaker 1: season the Mets were either ten and one or if

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Speaker 1: they played twelve times eleven and one against the Dodgers,

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Speaker 1: they were heavily favored. And somehow the Dodgers won that

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Speaker 1: in seven. The key was that they had Hirsheiser. You know,

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Speaker 1: Gibson home run is what everybody remembers. But every time

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Speaker 1: Hersheiser took the ball in that saw young season, especially

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Speaker 1: in the last couple of months, they would have eaten

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Speaker 1: the twenty seven Yankees, and it just didn't make any

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Speaker 1: difference as long as he had the ball. By the way,

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Speaker 1: here's an aside on oral Hirsheizer. So in his prime,

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Speaker 1: I worked at one point for the Padres Triple A

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Speaker 1: affiliate in Las Vegas. I didn't know school, Yeah, Las

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Speaker 1: Vegas Stars. First job out of college was doing an

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Speaker 1: inning of play by play, doing laundry and selling ads,

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Speaker 1: believe it or not. And I was very, very lucky

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Speaker 1: out of college. I always want to be a baseball announcer,

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Speaker 1: and it just worked, you know. There just wasn't very

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Speaker 1: many openings. But it's interesting. So he Hersheiser is at

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Speaker 1: his peak, and I want to go watch him pitch.

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Speaker 1: So I call the major league club. I'm a triple

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Speaker 1: A announcer, and I go and Gary Sheffield is playing

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Speaker 1: for the Padres and Hersheiser. It's almost like watching Clayton

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Speaker 1: Kershaw a couple of years ago against the low payroll Podres.

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Speaker 1: It looked like a dominant high school pitcher, you know,

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Speaker 1: Bryce Harper hitting in Las Vegas Bishop Gorman against kids

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Speaker 1: throwing seventy eight. So Hersheiser moves the Podreis down. Gary

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Speaker 1: Sheffield ends up with a double hit, a ball in

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Speaker 1: the upper deck, foul hit two ropes to right field,

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Speaker 1: and I remember sitting there with a friend saying, does

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Speaker 1: everybody understand how great Gary Sheffield is. Sheffield hit ropes

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Speaker 1: for three or four at bats. I mean, Bob, he

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Speaker 1: didn't swing and miss once. He was ahead of Hersheiser.

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Speaker 1: Hersheiser was avoiding him, and I remember thinking God, he

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Speaker 1: Hirsheiser was so overwhelming and yet the best hitter in

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Speaker 1: that park kind of owned, kind of owned Hirsheiser. And

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Speaker 1: it goes back to something I've thought a lot about

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Speaker 1: in baseball. I didn't see Bob Gibson. I didn't see

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Speaker 1: Sandy Kofax generationally. You may have seen a little bit

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Speaker 1: of Kofax, did you, Okay, So he's the only athlete

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Speaker 1: I saw Wilt in seventy two, because I'm fifty seven,

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Speaker 1: so I got the old Wilt who was disinterested with

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Speaker 1: a headband and marginally entertaining. But take me to Kofax,

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Speaker 1: the only great athlete I've never seen. How dominant was

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Speaker 1: he at his best. He only had two pitches Colin,

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Speaker 1: as you probably heard, a fastball, a rising fastball, which

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Speaker 1: physicists will tell you is not possible, but to the

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Speaker 1: eye for a ball player, it was a rising fastball

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Speaker 1: and a drop off the table curveball, the kind of

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Speaker 1: curveball which also he could use as a changeup, the

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Speaker 1: kind of curveball that just froze hitters because they had

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Speaker 1: to be looking for the fastball. And whatever that was

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Speaker 1: velocity was, I'm sure it was in the high nineties

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Speaker 1: at its best, it looked faster because comparatively, there weren't

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Speaker 1: as many guys who threw that hard in that era,

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Speaker 1: and of course it was a different era. He took

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Speaker 1: the ball after three day's rest every fourth day, and

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Speaker 1: if they needed it, he took it on the third

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Speaker 1: day on two days rest, as he did and pitched

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Speaker 1: a complete game shutout in Game seven in nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: five against the Twins. The other thing he had going

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Speaker 1: for him, and statistics just can't capture this, although if

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Speaker 1: people who didn't seek Fax just look at his page

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Speaker 1: in Baseball Reference. It was brief, but for a five

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Speaker 1: year stretch, he was just magnificent. But the thing about

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Speaker 1: him was his presence. He was elegant. And I had

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Speaker 1: this conversation with Vin Scully once and then wouldn't go

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Speaker 1: there because he was characteristically humble. But I said, of

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Speaker 1: all the Dodgers that you covered over sixty seven years,

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Speaker 1: I think the one you were best matched to was

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Speaker 1: Cofax because your elegance as a broadcaster matched his elegance

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Speaker 1: as a pitcher. You know those hot takes you post

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Speaker 1: on social media, Well, now you can win up to

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Speaker 1: five thousand dollars when you put those takes to the

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Speaker 1: test on FanDuel. It's a new game called over Under

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Speaker 1: to five thousand dollars. Age and location restrictions apply. See

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00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:49,240
Speaker 1: FanDuel dot com for terms and conditions. I've always felt

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Speaker 1: Dodger Stadium this is so odd reminds me of Johnny

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Speaker 1: Carson's suits you walk, they're not the hippest. When you

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Speaker 1: walk into Dodger Stadium, it looks remember Johnny Carson had,

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Speaker 1: he had suits that were you could buy a Johnny

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Speaker 1: Carson suit. They were never cool, but my dad was

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Speaker 1: always like, that's how you dress. And when you walk

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Speaker 1: into Dodger Stadium, it's not lit, it's not cool. It's

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Speaker 1: nothing of today's you know, kind of renaissance toward greater stadiums.

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Speaker 1: But it is so purely baseball, and it has maintained

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Speaker 1: a refined elegance that I don't think there's a stadium

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Speaker 1: or venue I've ever seen an American any sport. I

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Speaker 1: honestly feel when I walk into Dodger Stadium it's nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy eight with better food, no doubt about it. And

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Speaker 1: they refurbished it over the last few years, but it

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Speaker 1: retains its essential character and that vista when you look

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Speaker 1: out towards Chavez Ravine is still beautiful, especially at twilight.

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Speaker 1: It is the third oldest ballpark in the majors, after

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Speaker 1: Fenway and Wrigley, and actually whatever is the fourth oldest

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Speaker 1: is by now further removed from Dodger Stadium. Then Dodger

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Speaker 1: Stadium is chronologically from Wrigley and from and from Fenway.

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Speaker 1: But if you were a twenty year old person who

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Speaker 1: walked into Dodger Stadium, you didn't know any of the history.

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Speaker 1: You would be stunned to learn that it was built

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two. It's just incredible, you know, Bob.

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Speaker 1: It's funny because I grew up I was a baseball fan.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be a baseball announcer. I grew up

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Speaker 1: with Dave Kniehouse and at the time Ken Wilson, who

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Speaker 1: went on to do some Saint Louis blues hockey, you

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Speaker 1: know that town well, and then I just I segued

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Speaker 1: into other sports. Baseball I just couldn't make a living

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Speaker 1: at it. I could never get past Triple A, and

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Speaker 1: at about twenty five years old, I just kind of

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Speaker 1: moved into TV and all that stuff. It is interesting

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Speaker 1: that I have this conversation, and you know, I kind

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Speaker 1: of have my sports theories. Is that as basketball soccer

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Speaker 1: most or nonsensical, but nonetheless, if you look at baseball

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Speaker 1: in America and basketball, um, the talent pool is so

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Speaker 1: much greater and they are very international. Football remains very domestic.

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Speaker 1: It's a very linear product. I watched my high school

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Speaker 1: player go to Ohio State. He plays four years, he

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Speaker 1: goes to the Cleveland Browns. It's a very simple sport.

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Speaker 1: And although baseball and basketball, the quality are hockey. The

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Speaker 1: quality of the international players has so elevated, as we

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Speaker 1: talked about earlier, the quality of players, but it is

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Speaker 1: more complex. And when Steve Jobs took over Apple for

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Speaker 1: the second time, he went to his team and he said,

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Speaker 1: this is too complicated for the consumer. I want four

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Speaker 1: great products, and that football is simpler, more domestic, one

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Speaker 1: game a week, and that the international I'm a baseball

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Speaker 1: guy at heart. That's what I want want it to be. Football,

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Speaker 1: though gets a number. It's a simpler viewing, consumer experience,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know how to reconcile that. But that's

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Speaker 1: why I talk sixty eight percent football, even though my

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Speaker 1: heart as a kid was in baseball. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what you do as a sport, because I do think

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Speaker 1: international talent elevates everything. But when a guy like me

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Speaker 1: sits and lives for football, what's the answer to that

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Speaker 1: or is it just an unsolvable issue that the NFL,

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Speaker 1: like the English Premier League in Europe, is just going

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Speaker 1: to get more talk. I'm going to differ with your

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Speaker 1: theory in this respect. I don't think the almost entirely

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Speaker 1: domestic rosters of football, as opposed to the international rosters

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Speaker 1: increasingly in basketball and certainly in hockey and baseball, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that's the factor. I think the other factor,

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Speaker 1: which you mentioned is almost the entire thing, which is

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Speaker 1: that football play once a week, sixteen games that count

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Speaker 1: and soon to be seventeen, and every one of them

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Speaker 1: counts for a lot, and most of the games, although

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Speaker 1: increasingly they'll play on Monday nights and Thursday nights and

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Speaker 1: whatever else. Essentially, the games are on Sunday and at

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Speaker 1: a time of the year when, under normal circumstances, not

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Speaker 1: COVID circumstances, people tend in most of the country to

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Speaker 1: be at home, to be indoors, it gets dark earlier,

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Speaker 1: they settle in for a Sunday of watching football. It

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Speaker 1: televises extremely well. It's segmented. It's not like a guy

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Speaker 1: gets up at bat and hits a bunch of foul

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Speaker 1: balls first down, second down, even if it doesn't result

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Speaker 1: in a touchdown, there's something that happens the drive either

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Speaker 1: is concluded or it continues you get the first down.

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Speaker 1: The way it plays out on television, you can have

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Speaker 1: a replay in between it. Therefore, it doesn't seem like

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Speaker 1: it's a dead period of time. You're not watching people

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Speaker 1: huddle and then return or meander to the line of scrimmage.

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Speaker 1: The clock ticks along baseball. It was always the baseball's

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Speaker 1: advantage when it had the appropriate leisurely pace that there

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Speaker 1: was no clock. Now there were sometimes when you say,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, even if I'm a baseball fan, when

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Speaker 1: is this going to end? There are differences. There are

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Speaker 1: differences that we don't need to stipulate. But when the

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Speaker 1: Yankees and Pirates played Game seven in nineteen sixty, score

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Speaker 1: of the game is ten to nine, the game took

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Speaker 1: two hours and thirty six minutes, a nine inning game.

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Speaker 1: The Yankees played Cleveland in an early playoff game this year,

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Speaker 1: final score ten to nine, nine innings. I'm st abtracting

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Speaker 1: a short rainulator. It was like a half hour raingulay,

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Speaker 1: I'm not factoring that in that game took five hours

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Speaker 1: for like four hours and fifty eight minutes, same score. Now, granted,

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Speaker 1: the commercials are longer and the eras are different. No

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Speaker 1: one's saying you should go back seventy years, sixty years.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to nineteen sixty. But still there has to

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Speaker 1: be a happy medium between those two things that hurts

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Speaker 1: baseball a lot. Football owns television. Television bends over backwards

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Speaker 1: for football. Football is able to accommodate cable while still

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Speaker 1: maintaining its dominant presence on over the air TV. Baseball

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00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 1: has become a regional sport on television. In a normal season,

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Speaker 1: it does very very well on the regional sports networks.

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Speaker 1: But the baseball game of the week on Saturdays, when

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Speaker 1: I was doing it with Tony Kubeck and Vin and

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Speaker 1: Joe were doing it on NBC, that would often get

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Speaker 1: a double digit rating on a Saturday afternoon, and World

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Speaker 1: Series games got ratings consistently in the mid twenties and

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Speaker 1: when it got to Game six or seven in the thirties.

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Speaker 1: Forgive me if I'm going on too long here, as

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Speaker 1: I sometimes have the trendency to do. Nineteen eighty six,

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Speaker 1: the Mets and Red Sox, which we were talking about before,

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Speaker 1: what was to have been Game seven got rained out

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Speaker 1: on Sunday night, so the game is played on Monday night,

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Speaker 1: against Washington and the Giants on Monday Night Football. That

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Speaker 1: football game got a single digit rating and the baseball

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Speaker 1: game got like a thirty five or a thirty six. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you offered baseball a rating of fifteen for almost

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Speaker 1: any World Series game, we're not counting the Cubs breaking

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Speaker 1: through for the first time since nineteen oh eight, that

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Speaker 1: was something out of the ordinary. But these days, said

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Speaker 1: to say, there are World Series games that get single

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Speaker 1: digit ratings. More recently, in the nineties, when the NBA

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Speaker 1: was on NBC, and this isn't a hometown call. Same

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Speaker 1: thing was true when they were on CBS and the eighties,

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Speaker 1: in the Bird Magic era and the Jordan era. In

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Speaker 1: the nineties, those games were on a full fledged network

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Speaker 1: before television became as fractionalized as it is now. What

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Speaker 1: basketball has done, I'm sure it was financially the right

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Speaker 1: decision to make, But essentially, the NBA is a cable sport,

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Speaker 1: and even when you watch the games on ABC, as

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Speaker 1: good as Mike Green is as a play by play man,

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Speaker 1: you're thinking, well, this is the same thing I just

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Speaker 1: saw on ESPN. It doesn't feel as big. Not Mike's fault.

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Speaker 1: He's a terrific announcer, and there's never been a better

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Speaker 1: studio show in American TV sports than Ernie Johnson, Shaq,

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00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: Kenny Smith and Charles Barkley on TBS. It's fantastic or

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Speaker 1: into a TNT, whichever it is. But because it's a

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Speaker 1: cable sport, that's part of the reason when people talk

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00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 1: about Lebron versus Jordan. To the casual person, Lebron may

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00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 1: be equally excellent, there's nowhere near He's remotely as impactful

399
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: in popular culture. Little old ladies from Omaha who didn't

400
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: know a pick and roll from a foul show wanted

401
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: to watch Michael Jordan. The promos for the games were

402
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: on R and David Letterman and Johnny Carson on The

403
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 1: Today Show and Broke Cause newscasts and Seinfeld. It was

404
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: central to what was going on now. Football has been

405
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: able to maintain that centrality, whereas hockey, basketball, and baseball

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00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: on a national basis, not a local basis, but a

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00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: national basis. They're essentially cable sports well, and I also

408
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: think as an offshoot to that social media we live

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Speaker 1: in our phones. We're a more distracted nation and the

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Speaker 1: reality of one game a week is it's just like

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Speaker 1: you said, it's easier. We just bob to give you know.

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Speaker 1: I'm married, I've got you know. I watched my NFL

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Speaker 1: stuff for my job. I can't give you Tuesday and

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Speaker 1: Wednesday night, and I'm just I'm busier, and I do

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00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: think there's a simplicity and an urgency to football. To

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Speaker 1: your point, that is significant. You know you had brought

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Speaker 1: up analytics earlier. My wife's a vegan and I try

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Speaker 1: to respectfully eat as many vegan meals as I can.

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Speaker 1: You and I are in the same boat. We're in

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Speaker 1: exactly the same boat. My wife is a vegan, totally

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Speaker 1: gluten free, and I try to go along with it.

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Speaker 1: I know it's better for me, but there are sometimes

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Speaker 1: where I just said to say, hey, today, you stay here.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to go with me. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: get a burger. Yes, listen, I know I'm going to

426
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: die sooner, and I would be cantankerous anyway, so the

427
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: world doesn't lose anything. But in the end, I want

428
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 1: a piece of salmon, for God's sakes. I grew up

429
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: on the coast of Washington. I want fish, but it

430
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: leads me into analytics. I know it's smarter basketball, but

431
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: esthetically it's now a three point shooting contest. I know

432
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: it's more efficient baseball, but there's fewer hits and less activity.

433
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: How does a intellectual baseball fan, Bob you reconcile the

434
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: fact that a lot of analytics are bad optics baseball

435
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: has fewer hits. Could you would you feel? I mean,

436
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,360
Speaker 1: not the down baseball, but can we pushed back on

437
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: some of the analytics. I've told Nbagms nobody can defend

438
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: the corner three. Eliminate it, and therefore you can defend

439
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: the wing three at a higher percentage, and therefore people

440
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: will shoot mid range jumpers. There'll be more Chris Paul's

441
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: and Kawhi Leonards. Nobody can defend the corner three, So

442
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: the three point line should go into the bench about

443
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: eight six feet from the corner. And therefore now you

444
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: can defend Steph curR. You can put a body on him.

445
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 1: Now it's just open threes. You can't ask bigs to

446
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: get to the corner. Is there analytically a place where

447
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: you can push back in baseball and not be called

448
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: a dullard push back in analytics? Well, I'm not trying

449
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: to label myself, as nostradamis. But years and years ago

450
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: I said on the air, I've said it many times.

451
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: What's good what analytics tells us is good for gaining

452
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: a winning edge is definitely not good for baseball as

453
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: an entertainment product. And I think that that is now

454
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 1: the consensus, and the best evidence of that is that

455
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: theo Epstein has gone from building the Red Sox and

456
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: the Cubs into Baseball's front office, and his job is

457
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: to try and reconcile these two things. His job and

458
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: effect is to be doctor Frankenstein now telling the rest

459
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: of the world how they can capture the monster and

460
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 1: get him under control, the monster he helped to create.

461
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: So they're talking about outlawing shifts and some of these things,

462
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: as you know, they're experimenting with at various levels of

463
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: the minor leagues. You have to have at least two

464
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: defenders on either side of second base. Perhaps he had

465
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: an infielder with any part of his feet on the outfield.

466
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: Grass have to be on the dirt. There's talk of

467
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: a twenty second pitch clock or whatever the number is,

468
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: maybe it's eighteen seconds. They'll figure it out. With nobody

469
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: on base limiting how many times a guy can step

470
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: out of the box. I think it would be very

471
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: helpful if they eliminated all video except for replay of

472
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: potentially reviewable calls. All video during the game, the players

473
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: are screaming blue bloody murder. The reason they suspended it

474
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: last year was that they were trying to deal with

475
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: the aftermath of the astros cheating scandal. But so many

476
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: players are reviewing video constantly during the course of the game,

477
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: and all this information is in their heads. This is

478
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: why guys step out of the batters box constantly. Even

479
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: after taking ball one and nothing has happened, they step

480
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: out of the batter's box and now they're reviewing. What's

481
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: the difference now in my approach with the count one?

482
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: And oh since that was ball one instead of on

483
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,719
Speaker 1: and one, since it wasn't called strike one. You know,

484
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: this is not a chess match. This is not Boris

485
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: Spassky versus Bobby fishing. For god's sake, let's get it

486
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: going here. Yeah, yeah, no, and then, and I don't

487
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: want to beat up on baseball because but I do

488
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: think my son. I took my son to a baseball game.

489
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: I took him to every West Coast Park, and I

490
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: took him to Yankee Stadium and my kids we go

491
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: to a different baseball park every summer. And I remember

492
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: my son a few years ago saying, you know, Dad,

493
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: I love you and I really appreciate this, but not

494
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: a lot goes on with baseball. And he was like

495
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: nine ten, and I thought, God, this is an epiphany.

496
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: And it was now. It was a light hitting Podre

497
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: team and the Mets were no day at the park either.

498
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: But it did strike me that, God, he's a he

499
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: was starting to get into sports. And so I think

500
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: what you're saying is speeded up. That's okay, all right.

501
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: I got three final questions. They're broad, they're on different.

502
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: One more quick thing before you move on to that.

503
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: Just to solidify this point, in two thousand and five,

504
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: there were more than thirteen hundred more base hits in

505
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: baseball than strikeouts. That's not ancient history. That's sixteen years ago,

506
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: thirteen hundred more. The last two seasons, this trend has

507
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: finally gotten to the point where there were more strikeouts

508
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: than base hits. Think of what a sea change that is.

509
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: That is, yes, you know, by degree, that's a fundamental change,

510
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: and it isn't good for baseball as a product. Three

511
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: final questions. Here we go, yep, um, and if I'm

512
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: too nosy, you can bat me around. I'm not a

513
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: listen um. And so I'd read one time, Um, your

514
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: your father enjoyed occasional sports gambling And okay, so I

515
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: grew up in Vegas, so I'm comfortable with it, and

516
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: I knew a lot of people who did it. Um,

517
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: there was a time that, whether you considered it or not,

518
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: many considered you a viable candidate to be the commissioner

519
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: of baseball. I never saw you as a conciliatory personality,

520
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: so I I just didn't think you'd want to deal

521
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: with crazed, looney billionaires. Uh, you know, breathing down your throat.

522
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: That correct, But okay, that was my guest. So. Um,

523
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: But if you had been commissioner today, and I do

524
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: think owners as a general rule, although wealthier are a

525
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: little more under control and there's fewer characters than there

526
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: used to be, you'd have to deal with some gambling.

527
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: How comfortable? Or let me ask this, what would make

528
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: you uncomfortable as a commissioner of sports In the gold rush,

529
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: the increasing gold rush of gambling what's okay and what's

530
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: not to you? You know what I would be most

531
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with not so much the prospect of players or

532
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: umpires throwing games, although you always have to be vigilant

533
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: about that, but increasingly sports seems to me, and maybe

534
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: this is an old timer's view, to becoming more and

535
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: more transactional. If you can not only bet on a game,

536
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: but with people looking at their phones and various ways

537
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: you can tap into stuff, you have prop bets. Within

538
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: a game, you can probably have fifteen different bets going

539
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: besides the outcome of the game. That changes fundamentally how

540
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: people view sports and how they become attached to teams

541
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: or to a sport overall. Now, I don't know if

542
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: that has a commercial impact. Maybe it has a positive

543
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: commercial impact if enough people are hooked. But what I

544
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: just think it further erodes the sweeter If I don't

545
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: sound too old fashioned by saying that the sweeter connection

546
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: the fondness that we used to feel about sports, and

547
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: adds to the harder edge that makes it less appealing

548
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: to many of us. I'd be concerned about that, But

549
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: then I would also be concerned about, at least the

550
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: possibility that as with gambling being out there and more

551
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: and more people being involved in it, and more and

552
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: more awareness of what the betting lines are. You know

553
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: as well as I do, Colin, that every fan of

554
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: a small market NBA team believes that the league is

555
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: veneering the Lakers or the Bulls during the Jordanary always

556
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: And by the way, if that was the case, why

557
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 1: have the Nicks sucks so bad for so long? This

558
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: has been my Washington, d C, Philadelphia in New York.

559
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: The wrong teams are winning, that's right. But the idea

560
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: that any close game or any marginal call, even with replay,

561
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: they are asked every sport is asking for even more.

562
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,479
Speaker 1: When you combine social media with the irrational nature of

563
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: many fans, and now with gambling as something that the

564
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: leagues have openly embraced, you you are inviting, even if

565
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: it's baseless, You're inviting all kinds of conspiracy talk and

566
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: all kinds of complaints. And then on top of it,

567
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: you always have the possibility that one person out of

568
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: a thousand will will do um. I'm forgetting the name

569
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: of the of the official in the NBA who rams

570
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: Tim Tim Dons. Yeah yeah, yeah, So under these circumstances,

571
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: they have to be even more vigilant about that. And

572
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: then we come to something that's a side issue, but

573
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: many of us have thought about it. Look, Pete Rose

574
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: is no choir boy, and it wasn't confined to just

575
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: gambling on baseball. But what sense does it make that

576
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: guys who have used steroids whose actual effect on baseball

577
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: was worse are on the Hall of Fame ballot. It's

578
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: likely that some were already in the Hall of Fame

579
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: that others will follow that. Baseball embraces gambling, including on

580
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: baseball games, although not by people involved in baseball, but

581
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: still they openly embrace the public gambling on baseball, and

582
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 1: Pete Rose in his dotage can't be on the Hall

583
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: of Fame ballot. What harm would it do if he

584
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: were inducted into the Hall of Fame based on his

585
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: overwhelming baseball achievements, and if it's said at the bottom

586
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: of his plaque, along with all those accomplishments, banned from

587
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 1: baseball nineteen eighty nine through whatever for gambling. By the way,

588
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 1: that you might be interested in this, everybody who's employed

589
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: by Major League Baseball, and that includes me and everybody

590
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: get the Major League Baseball Network. We all have to

591
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: take a seminar. Some of it's obvious, but at least

592
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 1: MLB can say all of our employees have been told

593
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: that not only can they not wager on any game,

594
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: but they cannot share information. You know, if I was

595
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: broadcasting an MLB Network showcase game and somebody found out

596
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 1: that I told somebody that Max Scherzer has a tender

597
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: elbow and he's going to start tonight, but he might

598
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 1: not be himself, that would be a violation of that rule,

599
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: and I would be subject to some kind of sanction.

600
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: Second to last question serious and then something light at

601
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: the end. Yeah, almost like a dessert at the very end. Yeah. So,

602
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: Andrew Marshannon, I got into an interesting discussion a couple

603
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: of weeks ago. I know my career. Listen, I know,

604
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 1: four or five years from now, I'm calling bingo games

605
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: in Laughlin, Nevada. I'm I'm not delusional. I'll be ridden

606
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: out of my network. I get it. You had you

607
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: had you basically called your own shot. That won't happen

608
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: with me, It doesn't happen with most, But I thought

609
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: this was interesting. I think Chris Collinsworth is excellent and

610
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: I don't consider age an issue, and I was sort

611
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: of the fuddled when your former employer, NBC went with

612
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: Drew Brees, and I thought to myself, I don't think

613
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 1: he's going to be an expert in curling. I don't

614
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: buy the Olympic connection, and I don't care about his

615
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: opinion about Badger football. I thought to myself, if I

616
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: was Chris Collinsworth, I'd think I'm pretty good here. YEA, yeah,

617
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I didn't get it. I don't

618
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: think the symbolism is great. You know NBC better than

619
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: anybody I've ever met. Are you comfortable just explaining why

620
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: they did it and what you make of it? Well,

621
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: I was gone at the time that those discussions and

622
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: ultimately that agreement took place, so I'm not privy to

623
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: exactly what went on, but I'm guessing that their thought was, look,

624
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: Drew Brees is going to be in a hot commodity.

625
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: We can use them with Tariico on Notre Dame games,

626
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: we can use him in the studio people who want

627
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: to watch him. And if if the team of Michaels

628
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: and Collinsworth as there's always a possibility. Because what the

629
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: NFL does They always move things around. They've always got

630
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: one little piece that's out there that's up forbid, and

631
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 1: there always seems to be at least one network that

632
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: doesn't quite have its situation settled. That's ESPN slash ABC

633
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: at the moment. So is it possible that Michaels and

634
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 1: Collinsworth And I'm not saying this is the case, I'm

635
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,879
Speaker 1: not giving any inside knowledge. Is just an obvious thing

636
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: you can speculate about that if Al does not want

637
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: to have his career end with the next Super Bowl

638
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 1: on NBC, and Tarco is his obvious successor, and he's very,

639
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: very capable. If there's a package deal for Al and

640
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,399
Speaker 1: Chris someplace, then Tarico and Breeze would already have been

641
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: a partnership that the public would be familiar with, and

642
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: they would have found their on air chemistry, at least

643
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: in theory, and they'd be able to step right in.

644
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: And if Al either retires or Al goes someplace else

645
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: but Chris wants to stay, then they've got to decide

646
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: whether they want to keep Chris with Mike Tarico, which

647
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: is what I would do. Give them what all the

648
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 1: equity Chris has, and he hasn't lost anything from his peak,

649
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: or if they want to decide, well, you know, we

650
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: don't want to pay all these salaries. Drew Bees can

651
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: take care of that. It's often a cold business no

652
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: matter what, no matter what you have done, in the end,

653
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: it is a business. Finally, a couple of months ago

654
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: was big Twitter event. It appeared you had finally started

655
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: a Twitter account. Yea, and to the chagrin of people

656
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: like me, it was untrue and it was it was

657
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: just a high tech impostor you have in fact said

658
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: that Twitter is basically a high tech version of a

659
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: bathroom wall. Is there is there any value not in

660
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 1: your home or mind? Call and I at a gas station,

661
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: you know, somewhere in Albuquerque, when you're just trying to

662
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: get in and out of there as quickly as you

663
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: possibly can, you can't miss the various scrawlings on the wall.

664
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: Is there any social media worth embracing? Is there is

665
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: there any value? Like, generationally you don't need it. I

666
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 1: have to be somewhat relevant as I'm on the daily

667
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: treadmill of sports talk. Is there any social media you're

668
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: at least marginally attracted to? Not really? And as you said,

669
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense for me, But I think it

670
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,439
Speaker 1: can make sense for some people if they use it

671
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: to disiously, if they use it to put out information.

672
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: But I think if I just don't understand someone who

673
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: is in any sense established wanting to engage with Joe

674
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: Blow who's coming from nowhere, I just don't get that.

675
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: And people who know me know that I'm a perfectly

676
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: friendly guy. You know, I'll talk at length with a

677
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,720
Speaker 1: cab driver whoever sits down next to me on a plane,

678
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: or if I'm not broadcasting the game and I'm at

679
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: the game the person that I'm good with all that,

680
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: but I don't understand the need to either argue with

681
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 1: or be affirmed by people that are just out there.

682
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that there's their opinion is worth less

683
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 1: than yours or mine, but I just don't understand spending

684
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: much of your life with that. About ten years ago,

685
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: Al Michaels and I did a ball game just because

686
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: we're friends that we've never done a baseball game together,

687
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: and he hasn't done a baseball game except for this

688
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: one since ninety five, and I said, why don't we

689
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: just do a game together. I can get the baseball

690
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 1: network to work that out. So we did a met

691
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: Giant game in San Francisco and people responded to it

692
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: very favorably. And so we descend from the booth and

693
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: we walked down to the parking lot where the production

694
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: truck is, and the PR guy from the MLB network

695
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: comes out of the trailer beaming, and he says, Twitter

696
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: loved it. Twitter loved it. And I didn't want to

697
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 1: deflate the kid, but I said as gently as I could,

698
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: you know, I've been at this long enough to know

699
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 1: that it was good, and if it wasn't so good,

700
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: on my own harshest critic, I don't need it. I

701
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: don't I don't need I don't need the critique because

702
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: if there's a valid critique, I've thought of it already,

703
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: or I've got people I know respect and trust they'll

704
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: tell me. And if it was good, I don't need

705
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: a thousand strangers to tell me what's for dinner. Let's

706
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: get out of here, by the way, speaking of dinner

707
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: with Al Michaels, Yeah, ive Al eats at the same

708
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: corner booth, in the same restaurant in my neighborhood. Now,

709
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: I just I just moved to Brentwood. So Al's right

710
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: around the corner and he doesn't eat vegetables. He's a

711
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: very interesting person for his area diet as he is.

712
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:17,879
Speaker 1: He's got, He's got a diet that is fundamentally well,

713
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: if not flawed. Unique. If you if you and Al

714
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 1: Michael's go to dinner, what's Bob costas order? Well, he

715
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: makes fun of me because I will have the vegetables

716
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: along with the salmon or the pasta. I've tried to

717
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: get away. I love a good burger if it's really

718
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,479
Speaker 1: a top rank, a top ten burger, but I've gotten

719
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: away from the steak and potatoes. But Al is strictly that.

720
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 1: You know. When he got elected to the broadcasters winging

721
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: to the Baseball Hall of Fame, and we talked about

722
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 1: going up to Cooperstown together because our wives are close.

723
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: And I started rattling off a few good restaurants in

724
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: Cooperstown and his first comment is do they have gluten?

725
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: Is Jill going to be able to eat there? Will

726
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: you have to eat gluten? You know, because he's like

727
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: contemptuous of the whole idea that he could be healthy,

728
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: because he has defied his cardiologist if he even has

729
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,720
Speaker 1: one because he's lived into his late seventies perfectly healthy,

730
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: doing everything you're not supposed to do, at least in

731
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: terms of his diet. Yeah, the irony would be Al's

732
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: cardiologist has died and Al still driving on the air.

733
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: That's right before we go. You know something that I

734
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: thought of earlier, when you're talking about doing an ending

735
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: of minor league ball in Las Vegas. One of my

736
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: hopes and it looks like it won't materialize him in

737
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 1: my late sixties now, but I thought, after leaving NBC,

738
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,919
Speaker 1: one of the things I would do, and Covid gotten

739
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: the way of this. I always wanted to do a

740
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: season of minor league baseball in a good town with

741
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: a good ballpark, in a baseball history Greenville, South Carolina,

742
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: the Toledo mud Hens, Nashville or Knoxville, someplace like that.

743
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: I'm leaving places out that have a nice ballpark and

744
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: a nice little town, and I would just do the

745
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 1: season on the radio, and I would not allow any

746
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: television because somebody was well known was doing it. I

747
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,280
Speaker 1: wouldn't let them do features about me, and I wouldn't

748
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: steal a bunch of innings from whoever was the regular guy.

749
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: You know, I'd do three innings or whatever, and I

750
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: would just see if I could do it, just for

751
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: the sake of the craft of it and the appreciation

752
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: of it and the kind of Bull Durham experience of it.

753
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,919
Speaker 1: And it looks like, because of all the various circumstances

754
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: that would have to come together for that to happen,

755
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: that may never happen. And I'm not entitled to that

756
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: many regrets, as fortunate as I have been, but if

757
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen, that will be a regret of mine.

758
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,399
Speaker 1: But as I get older, it'd be harder to make

759
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: those road trips on the buses and to fully embrace

760
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: the experience as I perhaps once would have been able to. Yeah,

761
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 1: I did Triple A the Pacific Coast League, and that's

762
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: a fairly elegant league in terms of the spectrum of

763
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: minor league baseball. And I got to tell you there

764
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: were some you know, there were some challenging moments. Doing

765
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 1: a baseball game in August in a cement press box

766
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: in Scottsdale, Arizona is no way, is no way to live.

767
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,359
Speaker 1: But I will tell you I saw Jose con Sake,

768
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 1: I saw Mark McGuire trying to play third, and he

769
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: was about as nimble as a batting cage. I saw

770
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: Conseco when there were actually in the minor league rumors

771
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: of steroids. I saw John Kruk as the best triple

772
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: A hitter I've ever seen. There were so many characters.

773
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: It really felt like Bull Durham. There were so many

774
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: like the best part about it, Bob, was these lifer

775
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: baseball guys who had no shot, no shot of the bigs,

776
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: and they went to the ballpark every night and they

777
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: and they rolled over catchers at the plate, and they

778
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 1: had a deep abiding for the sport. And it's about

779
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: half the roster back when I did it. Now now

780
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: teams just it's a more refined process. But my memories

781
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: of Las Vegas my career started doing an inning to

782
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: two A Baseball with Ken Korak, now the voice of

783
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: the A's Paul Olden really really kent Dirt Vanus, who

784
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: did some you know, major league baseball. And I consider

785
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: myself so incredibly lucky for the experiences I had to talk.

786
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: I mean didn't have the Internet. I had to talk

787
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: for hours about minor league baseball players and I had

788
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,280
Speaker 1: a small media guide and it's I just think verbally.

789
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: It just enhanced any skills I had. It was a

790
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: gift actually in my career. I'm sure it was. You know.

791
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 1: Roger Kahn legendary for having written The Boys of Summer,

792
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: one of the greatest baseball books ever about the Brooklyn

793
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: Dodgers of the fifties. He wrote a book more recently

794
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: passed away about a year ago. He was in his nineties,

795
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: I think, but he wrote a book I don't know,

796
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: maybe twenty five years ago called good Enough to Dream

797
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: about a season in the New York Ten League, and

798
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: that title summed it up. Most of those guys might

799
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: not even make it the Triple A, let alone the

800
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: big leagues, but they were good enough to dream. And

801
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: all of them were the best player on their high

802
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: school team, no question. And they played, you know, they

803
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 1: played in these idyllic ballparks, and it just captured what

804
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 1: that slice of baseball is about. I'm meandering here and musing.

805
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: I remember once I had a speaking engagement in Chattanooga, Tennessee,

806
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: and I show up the night before the speaking engagement.

807
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: I get off the plane and I'm being driven to

808
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: the hotel and I see the lights of a ballpark

809
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: and I tell the cab driver wait, I go to

810
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: the hotel, I check in, I throw my bag in

811
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: the room, and I get back in the cab to

812
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: take me to the ballpark. And I get to the

813
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: ballpark and it's like the sixth inning, and the game

814
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 1: winds up going seventeen innings, and by the time it's over,

815
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: I swear to god, I started counting the people, many

816
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 1: of whom were the ti and girlfriends of the players,

817
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: who were left, and there were maybe a hundred people

818
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: left in the ballpark. But as I looked around, it

819
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: was a nice night. There was a charm to that,

820
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: and in a different case, and rhythm to it that

821
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 1: is just hard to recapture. Well, you gave me more

822
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: time than I deserve. You know, I cherish these moments.

823
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: You were my idol growing up, and that ages you,

824
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: although I think generationally we're pretty close. But I watched

825
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: those Tony Kuback games on my mom's orange couch and

826
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: took notes and modeled my early career after you, And

827
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 1: of course it went sidecas by about twenty four years

828
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: old and has never recovered. But nonetheless I cherished these

829
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: one or two times a year that we get to

830
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: speak and I just I really appreciate it, Bob, I

831
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: really had a lot of fun that I'd thank you

832
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 1: so much. Happy with you, Colin, take care. Hope you

833
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. Bob cost Us. Follow us at The Volume

834
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 1: Sports on Twitter and Instagram, Rate review and subscribe. Hope

835
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: you're enjoying this stuff. I am. See you soon. The

836
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: Volume