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Speaker 1: I don't know every day a wait, click your ass

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Speaker 1: up the breakfast club.

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Speaker 2: You don't finish for y'all done morning.

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Speaker 3: Everybody is DJ Envy Jess Hilarious, Charlamage, the guy we

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Speaker 3: are the breakfast Club. Law La Rosa is here as well.

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Speaker 3: We got a special guest in the building. Yes, indeed,

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Speaker 3: right up, broadcaster.

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Speaker 4: MINDI Hussan, welcome, thanks for having me. How you feeling

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Speaker 4: feeling tired?

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Speaker 2: Tired?

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Speaker 1: So I'm not a morning person. I could never I

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Speaker 1: could never do a show called anything breakfast related.

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Speaker 2: What are you time to usually wake up?

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Speaker 1: I mean I wake up early. I just don't get

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Speaker 1: going til later in the day and I do my

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Speaker 1: best work.

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Speaker 3: Got you and you see the funny thing, I'm opposite

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Speaker 3: at about ten eleven. That's when my eyes start going really, really,

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Speaker 3: really low, when it's time to get take my little nap.

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Speaker 5: I know you don't have a lot of time, so

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Speaker 5: I did a lot of questions I want to ask you.

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Speaker 5: I want to start off. In the past twenty four hours,

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Speaker 5: Israel has bombed Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Qatar.

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Speaker 2: No missing somebody, Tunicia, Denisa, what is that about?

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Speaker 1: What it's about is it's one country in the Middle

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Speaker 1: East that doesn't have to abide by the rules that

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Speaker 1: everyone else follows. There is no red line. They are

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Speaker 1: if there were any other country in the Middle East,

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Speaker 1: if they were Arab country or Muslim country, we would

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Speaker 1: be calling them a rogue nation because they just bombed,

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Speaker 1: as you said, multiple sovereign countries, many of which would

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Speaker 1: not attack them. Tunisia didn't do anything to them. They

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Speaker 1: bombed the Flotillian Tunia. And that's just in the last

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Speaker 1: couple of days. You go back further, they've bombed Iran,

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Speaker 1: and Iraq and Yemen, Syria. So they've bombed I think

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Speaker 1: around nine different places in the Middle East over the

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Speaker 1: last year, which I can't think of any other country

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Speaker 1: in the world that has done that in modern times.

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Speaker 4: So why why no penalty?

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Speaker 2: I don't want to know why period.

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Speaker 1: So why they're doing it? Know, we know, we know

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Speaker 1: why they're doing it. They currently they are run by

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Speaker 1: the most far right government in their history, which is

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Speaker 1: super belligerent, super aggressive, has people like Bizalo Smotrish, the

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Speaker 1: finance minister, who talks openly of greater Israel, wants to

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Speaker 1: have Israel with even bigger borders than the occupied territories

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Speaker 1: they have and why are they're getting away with it?

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Speaker 1: Because of our leaders in Washington, DC, where I'm based,

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Speaker 1: because of the President of the United States, Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: because of Congress, and because of both parties in Congress.

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Speaker 1: That's been clear when it comes to Israel. I know,

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Speaker 1: every other issue in America is like Democrat versus Republican,

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Speaker 1: red versus Blue, not on Israel. On Israel, it's a

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Speaker 1: bipartisan consensus. Joe Biden let him do whatever he wants.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump lets him do whatever he wants.

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Speaker 5: Why did they The guitar thing was interesting because why

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Speaker 5: did they barbatar didn' Qatar.

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Speaker 2: Give Trump a plane? And didn't the say they want

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Speaker 2: to invest in a trillion dollars.

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Speaker 1: But they did give him a plane. They are doing

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Speaker 1: a golf course with Eric Trump. They are a very

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Speaker 1: close ally of the United States. They host the US

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Speaker 1: military base is in Qatar. Think about that. The United

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Speaker 1: States clearly signed off on a military strike on an

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Speaker 1: allied country where like ten thousand American troops are based,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of insane if you think about it.

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Speaker 1: No matter what you do, you can host an American

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Speaker 1: military base, You can give the president a plane, you

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Speaker 1: can host his family golf course, you can be really

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Speaker 1: close allies. But if Israel wants to bomb you, the

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Speaker 1: United States will let Israel bomb You think about.

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Speaker 2: How insane do but I'm still trying to wrap my mind.

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Speaker 1: Well, they're reasoning for qata was we want to take

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Speaker 1: out the Hamas leadership, which is based in Qatar. What

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Speaker 1: they omit to mention is that the Qatar leader the

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Speaker 1: Hamas leadership in Kataka is the United States government asked

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Speaker 1: for them to be in Kada. Barack Obama in twenty

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Speaker 1: eleven said, I want you guys, I want He said,

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Speaker 1: I want you guys to host Hamas. I don't want

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Speaker 1: a musk to go to Iran. I want them to

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Speaker 1: be somewhere we can talk to them. So the Qataris

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Speaker 1: have always hosted Humas, but with US and Israeli approval,

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Speaker 1: they don't tell you that when they're bullshitting.

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Speaker 2: So there is Hamas leadership in Qatar.

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Speaker 1: Yes, no one's ever hidden. That's where they negotiate. That's

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Speaker 1: where and by the way, these guys were meeting when

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Speaker 1: they were attacked to discuss a ceasefi deal, which is

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Speaker 1: another reminder that Israel and net and Yahun spokes don't

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Speaker 1: want a ceasefi. Every time there's a negotiation for a SEISFA,

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Speaker 1: they attacked the negotiators. Last year, they killed Ismail Haney,

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Speaker 1: a leader of Hamas in Tehran. The guy was in

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Speaker 1: the middle of negotiations for a ceasefire. They killed him

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Speaker 1: in Iran. Remember they bombed Iran the other day. One

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Speaker 1: of the people they targeted was a guy called Ali Shamkhani.

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Speaker 1: He went on NBC News just two weeks earlier and said,

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Speaker 1: I'm up for a deal with Donald Trump. We can

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Speaker 1: do a nuclear deal. They bombed him. Why would you

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Speaker 1: bomb people who are negotiating peace steals and sees flies

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Speaker 1: unless you don't want peace deals and ceespa by Whitney

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Speaker 1: want peace deal, Why wouldn't they because that constrains their vision.

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Speaker 1: Their vision is we should have no rules. We shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have to stop fighting for anyone else. We want to

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Speaker 1: continue the war. Matthew Miller, who was Joe Biden State

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Speaker 1: Obomba spokesman, said recently that when he was in government

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Speaker 1: he heard Netanyal who say this war will go on

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Speaker 1: for decades. So he use decades long war.

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Speaker 2: So if Hama's leadership is there is that justify the bombing.

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Speaker 1: No, because they're there because we wanted them there. And

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Speaker 1: you can't just bomb any sovereign country where there's people

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Speaker 1: you don't like or you're opposed to. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is a very dangerous road we've gone down over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years. Right, We've burned down international law,

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Speaker 1: the Geneva Conventions, all the norms and precedents. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you don't think people around the world are watching this

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Speaker 1: saying why can I do what Israel does? Like all

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Speaker 1: the the idea that We're going to go to Russia

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Speaker 1: and be like, you can't bomb hospitals in Ukraine. Putn't

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Speaker 1: say why is rack and bomb hospitals and bombing terrorists

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Speaker 1: in those hospitals. Like the arguments that they've deployed to

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Speaker 1: justify torture, the bombing of civilian areas that can be

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Speaker 1: replicated by every quote unquote rogue state in the world.

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Speaker 1: Why not very dangerous? Right? We spent seventy years of the

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Speaker 1: United States in the UK the way building up the international order.

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Speaker 1: It's all been burned down over the last two years

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Speaker 1: for one guy.

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Speaker 2: Now, now, Bin Shapiro was here earlier this week and

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Speaker 2: you hit.

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Speaker 5: Me start laughing like that, Why you gave a BS

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Speaker 5: answer on genocide?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what exactly what you want? We have a clip.

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Speaker 2: You don't think what's happening in God is a genocide?

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Speaker 4: Correct?

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Speaker 2: Okay, But the world's.

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Speaker 5: Leading association of genocide scholars has declared that Israel.

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Speaker 2: Is committing genocide and God. That based off the pure

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Speaker 2: definition of.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's not.

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Speaker 6: Actually, if you if you read their actual study, it's

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Speaker 6: not based on the quot unquote pure definition of genocide.

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Speaker 6: They don't atually even define genocide in the document. The

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Speaker 6: question is not whether some sort of coterie of people

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Speaker 6: who call themselves experts in an issue are a quote

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Speaker 6: unquote experts on the issue. The question is whether the

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Speaker 6: definition is met. The definition of genocide is not met

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Speaker 6: in Gaza by any stretch of the imagination. And you

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Speaker 6: can cite to me, you know a group that I

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Speaker 6: hadn't heard of until two seconds ago, and nobody had

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Speaker 6: heard of until two seconds ago, that voted in a

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Speaker 6: particular way. That doesn't make a difference definitionally.

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Speaker 2: So what does a genocide do?

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Speaker 6: A genocide is the attempt to forcibly destroy an entire population,

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Speaker 6: which is not what has happened, So it's.

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Speaker 5: Not the attacks on like the personal facilities needed for

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Speaker 5: like survival, like healthcare and educational institutions.

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Speaker 6: Well, Israel has shipped in more humanitarian aid into the

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Speaker 6: Gaza Strip than literally any army to in a population

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Speaker 6: that supports the enemy in literally all of human history.

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Speaker 6: They've been shipping in about forty four hundred calories per

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Speaker 6: day per person into the Gaza Strip in the middle

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Speaker 6: of a war in which the enemy is holding actual

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Speaker 6: Israeli hostages underground, who, as we've seen from some of

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Speaker 6: the pictures, are actually starving.

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Speaker 4: Man, he's going crazy over there.

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Speaker 1: Cal I think you're being generous. You said he gave

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Speaker 1: you some bullshit on Genesis. He gave you bush on

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Speaker 1: the whole topic. Right. He said, we don't give them

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Speaker 1: that much money. We give them three billion a year.

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Speaker 1: We actually give them close to four billion a year,

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Speaker 1: and last year we gave them eighteen billion dollars a year.

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Speaker 1: He said, they've been shipping in age. You just played

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Speaker 1: that de clip. Israel doesn't ship in any aid. The

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Speaker 1: aid comes from everyone else. These acts like Israel's giving

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Speaker 1: the aid, it's international aid. The Israel decides to switch

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Speaker 1: on and off whenever it wants. But on the genocide question,

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Speaker 1: it's funny that he kind of patronizingly says, these genocides scholars,

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Speaker 1: they didn't give you the definition. You rightly said, what's

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Speaker 1: the definition? He said, forcibly destroying a whole population, that

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Speaker 1: is not the definition of genocide. The nineteen forty eight

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Speaker 1: Genocide Convention gives us the definition of genocide Article two.

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Speaker 1: It says very clearly that genocide is any of the

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Speaker 1: following acts with the intent to destroy, in whole or

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Speaker 1: in part, a national, religious, racial, or ethnic group, and

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Speaker 1: one of those acts killing members of the group, causing

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Speaker 1: serious bodily or mental harm to the group, inflicting conditions

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Speaker 1: of life on a group that causes physical destruction, preventing

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Speaker 1: births within that group, and taking children away from that

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Speaker 1: group and giving it to another group five conditions. Israel's

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Speaker 1: met at least four of those five conditions. By any

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Speaker 1: sane description of what they've done in Gaza, it is

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Speaker 1: a genocide based on those conditions. These Raelis are saying

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Speaker 1: it's a genocide. Just listen to what they say. They

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Speaker 1: say genocide or stuff all the time. And here's the

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Speaker 1: worst part. Israeli. You know, he brushes over the IAGS,

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Speaker 1: some organization I've never heard of. I'm sure they don't

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Speaker 1: care that he's never heard of them. They are the

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Speaker 1: International Associations of Genesis calls. But let me just give

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Speaker 1: for your listeners actual people who say it meets the definition.

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Speaker 1: People like Oma Bartov, who is the Israeli Holocaust historian.

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Speaker 1: A Brown wrote a New York Times opens it's a genocide.

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Speaker 1: Daniel Blackman, Amos Goldberg, Israeli Holocaust historians, the Hebrew University,

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Speaker 1: they say it's a genocide in Gaza, Schmal Lederman, all

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Speaker 1: these Israeli scholars, Ras Siegel, they none of them, by

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Speaker 1: the way, all of them said we didn't think it

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Speaker 1: was a genocide at the beginning, but we definitely think

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Speaker 1: it's a genocide. Now these are Israeli Jewish experts on

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Speaker 1: the Holocaust. They're saying it's a genocide. We're supposed to

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Speaker 1: just ignore them.

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Speaker 2: What determines a genocide.

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Speaker 5: The reason I asked that question is because I feel

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Speaker 5: like most war can be classified as a genocide.

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Speaker 1: It's the intent, right, Okay, So if you expressed intent

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Speaker 1: to destroy this group because of who they are, because

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Speaker 1: they're because of their national ethnic really just racial characteristics.

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Speaker 1: That's what makes it just a war. Like the Iraqi

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Speaker 1: invasion killed maybe a million people, But most people don't

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Speaker 1: accuse George Bush of a genocide because the goal was

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Speaker 1: probably oil security, whatever you want to say. It's protecting Israel.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't to destroy Iraqis for being Iraqis. But here

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Speaker 1: these raely governments saying we want to destroy palestine Is,

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Speaker 1: we want to wipe out Gaza, we want to disassemble Gaza,

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Speaker 1: to quote Bizalosmotris, leave it in piles of rubble. And

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Speaker 1: it's so interesting when you talk about intent and what

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Speaker 1: makes a genocide of genocide, it's not about killings. Ben

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Speaker 1: Shapiro says that the Chinese are guilty of genocide in

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Speaker 1: Shinjang against the wigas right, and I agree with him.

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Speaker 1: I think it is a genocide in Hinjang. But they

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Speaker 1: haven't mass killed the Vegas. They've locked them up in camps,

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Speaker 1: they've tortured them, they've prevented them from using Muslim names,

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Speaker 1: they've broken down mosques, intend to destroy a group, but

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Speaker 1: they haven't mass killed them like in Gaza. But Ben

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Speaker 1: says it's a genocide in Hinjng. That's weird. He says

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Speaker 1: Syria is a genocide. Even the baschalasaid didn't say anything

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Speaker 1: as close to genocidal as the Israeli government. Bashar al

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Speaker 1: Assad killed around one to two percent of his population

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Speaker 1: for ten years. Nanya, who's killed minimum three percent of

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Speaker 1: the Gaza population in less than two years? So why

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Speaker 1: is Syria a genocide and not Gaza?

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Speaker 5: Ben I saw a lot of Jewish I guess correspondence

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Speaker 5: on YouTube talking about the interview with Shapiro here, and

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Speaker 5: a lot of them were saying that if it was

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Speaker 5: a genocide, Israel could wipe them out in one second.

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Speaker 5: If it was actually they could just take them all

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Speaker 5: out if they wanted to put and it was like,

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Speaker 5: that's why it's not so.

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Speaker 1: Piers Morgan used to do that line on me whenever

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Speaker 1: I want on his show. He's like, well, you could

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Speaker 1: just wipe them out. They have nuclear weapons, which they

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Speaker 1: deny having, but they do. What's funny is again, Joe Biden,

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Speaker 1: the US government says that Ukraine is a genocide. Vladimir

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Speaker 1: Putin could wipe out Ukraine with a nuke tomorrow. Why

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Speaker 1: is that not a factor The Chinese have nukes, they

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Speaker 1: could wipe out the weakest. I mean, it's a dumb

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Speaker 1: argument to say you could kill everyone. We haven't. There's

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Speaker 1: reasons why they haven't killed everyone because they probably think

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Speaker 1: we're not at that point of impunity. Although again smoke

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Speaker 1: Trich Finance minister, what do you say. Last year he

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Speaker 1: said starve everyone in Gaza if I could, morally it's justified,

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Speaker 1: so we can't get away with it. Sadly they are

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Speaker 1: getting away with They have staved a lot of people

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Speaker 1: in Gaza, so it's a ridiculous argument. So we could

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Speaker 1: kill everyone, that's why it's not a genocide. But the

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Speaker 1: genocide definition isn't killing everyone. There are multiple genocides. As

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Speaker 1: I say Shinjang, people say Ukraine, the roehingas in Myanmar. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's a genocide. Most people accept that's a genocide. They

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Speaker 1: didn't kill everyone. They killed I think seventy thousand people horrible,

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Speaker 1: But they didn't kill all the roehuingas.

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Speaker 4: They'll never get to a cease fire.

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Speaker 1: This had never happened, not anytime soon, unfortunately. I mean,

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Speaker 1: who's going to who they're going to do? Is seas

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Speaker 1: far with that have us people? They try to kill.

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Speaker 1: Where are they going to do the cease far in

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Speaker 1: Doha that they're bombing. I mean, the Katari said yesterday

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Speaker 1: we're done, We're out of the mediation efforts, which is

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Speaker 1: exactly what these Raelies want. They don't want to see five.

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Speaker 5: But then even when you get rid of Hamas, there's

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Speaker 5: always another organization that pops up. I feel like we've

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Speaker 5: been naming the same organization different thanks.

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Speaker 1: Because it's not about the organization, right, It's about the conditions.

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Speaker 1: It's about There was a great cartoons, very sad cartoon

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Speaker 1: right at the beginning of the after October seventh. They said,

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Speaker 1: if your solution to Hamas is to kill my is

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Speaker 1: to kill this kid's parents, the first thing that kid

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Speaker 1: does is create Hamas two point zero. Right. It's an

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Speaker 1: insane idea that says we're gonna By the way, they

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Speaker 1: apparently killed one of the Hamas leader's sons in this attack,

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Speaker 1: didn't kill the actual Humus leadership, who all survived. I

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Speaker 1: believe I read that they killed one of his sons,

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Speaker 1: and his wife and kids have been killed in a

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Speaker 1: previous conflict, Like that's how you get people to the table,

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Speaker 1: Like it's insane right, you cannot do this to a people,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of Israeli generals, by the way, recognize us.

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Speaker 1: I could go on forever about how many these ragions

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Speaker 1: have come out and said this isn't working. What we

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Speaker 1: can't just kill our way to victory?

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Speaker 4: What are you telling people in the US.

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Speaker 3: And the reason I say that is, you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: driving into work today and my daughter is supposed to

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Speaker 3: go to the Freedom Tower tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: But then they say on the.

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Speaker 3: News, you know, we've gotten threats on all the bridges

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Speaker 3: in New York and also the Freedom Tower. So what

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Speaker 3: do you tell the people in here? They'd say, you

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Speaker 3: know what, that has nothing to do with me. Why

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Speaker 3: am I worried about it? Why am I concerned? Why

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Speaker 3: should they be concerned to.

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Speaker 4: Worried about it?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Many reasons. I mean, first, we should be concerned as

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Speaker 1: human being. Of course, what is happening in Gaza is

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Speaker 1: the greatest tragedy of our lifetime. I was a guy

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Speaker 1: who marched against the Iraq war. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: a horror show. I thought we would never see anything

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Speaker 1: as bad as a rock in my lifetime. Again, Gaza

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Speaker 1: makes Iraq look like a walk in the Park, like

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Speaker 1: the tragedy in Gaza should affect us all as human beings.

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Speaker 1: The biggest cohort of child amputees anywhere on planet Earth,

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Speaker 1: a child killed every hour every day for the last

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Speaker 1: two years, according to Save the Children. So it's a

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Speaker 1: human tragedy, but also from a self interested point of view.

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Speaker 1: Two reasons. One, it's our money doing the bombing, right,

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Speaker 1: it's our We paid for those bombs that killed those

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Speaker 1: kids in hospitals and schools and refugee camps and churches

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Speaker 1: and mosques and graveyards. We paid for that, right. Why

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Speaker 1: the hell are we paying for this stuff? Did anyone

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Speaker 1: ask the American people? All the polls show the American

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Speaker 1: public are against this war. Eight percent of Democrats support

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Speaker 1: what Israel is doing in Gaza. Ninety percent of Democrats

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Speaker 1: in Congress support what is doing. Complete disconnect. Our democracy

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Speaker 1: is broken. That's number one. And number two again self interest. Right,

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Speaker 1: you don't think that some of these terrorist groups, militant

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Speaker 1: groups are going to take out their anger on the Americans,

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Speaker 1: I mean, our country back this stuff we're complicit in.

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Speaker 1: The US Intelligence has said since day one, we're going

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Speaker 1: to see an increase in terrort threats against our country

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Speaker 1: because of what Israel's doing in Gaza. So there's a selfish,

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Speaker 1: self interested reason, there's a financial reason, but above all

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Speaker 1: us the moral reason.

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Speaker 5: I love what you said the first reason as human beings,

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Speaker 5: because that's a conversation I was happening with Ben. That's

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Speaker 5: conversation I had with other people. Whether you call it

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Speaker 5: a war or whether you call it a genocide, can

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Speaker 5: we agree that watching all these civilian casualties, watching all

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Speaker 5: these kids getting killed is wrong?

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Speaker 2: Can we start there?

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Speaker 1: And I think what they've done is they've they've got

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Speaker 1: the talking point down so much you can't even did

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Speaker 1: you see the interview that Adam Friedland with Richie tore

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Speaker 1: my guy?

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Speaker 2: That was disgusting.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's just he's crying. True, He's like people

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Speaker 1: are dying. And Richie's like, it's how masters to blame?

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Speaker 1: They've just robotically they they have just got this talking

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Speaker 1: But if your response to someone telling you that a

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Speaker 1: bunch of kids got killed in the school scale a

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Speaker 1: master is to blame, that's your instant knee jer response.

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Speaker 1: What kind of human being are you? I think we're

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Speaker 1: seeing a lot of sociopaths, but expose themselves in recent How.

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Speaker 7: Do you make people care about actual people and conditions

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Speaker 7: then if people have these things drilled into Because even

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Speaker 7: when we were talking to Bean Shapiro, that was one

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Speaker 7: of my things that I kind of got, is that

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Speaker 7: he's used to talking about things in a certain way

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Speaker 7: that's so indefinite and it's not certain things aren't just

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Speaker 7: like black and white.

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Speaker 4: What he tas the emotion out of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but like and.

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Speaker 7: Not just depending on him, because that happens all across

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Speaker 7: like everywhere you watch these talking heads. How do you

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Speaker 7: get people to go back to the human part of

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Speaker 7: it when you're talking about something like that.

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Speaker 1: It's both a simple and a complicated answer. The simple

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Speaker 1: answer is we got to tell their stories. The complicated

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Speaker 1: answer is they've made it hard to tell their stories, right.

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Speaker 1: They have killed Palestinian journalists on the ground who are

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Speaker 1: telling stories about what's happening around them. They've killed them

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Speaker 1: with their families. They've prevented foreign journalists from going into Gaza.

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Speaker 1: They've killed doctors who work in Palestine. They've prevented foreign

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Speaker 1: doctors again from going back into Gaza. So they don't

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Speaker 1: want eyewitnesses to their crimes. And therefore we can't tell

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Speaker 1: the stories. I don't know how many of you saw

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Speaker 1: the Guardian story yesterday where a sniper and it's very

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Speaker 1: simper from Napersville, Illinois, goes to join the Israeli military

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Speaker 1: and is shooting family members one after another. And when

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Speaker 1: he's he was interviewed by someone pretending to be a journalist, sorry,

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Speaker 1: pretending not to be a journalist. He didn't realize he

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Speaker 1: was talking to a journalists and he says, you know,

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Speaker 1: I kill this guy, and his brother came to get

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Speaker 1: the body. I shot him too, and he goes, I

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Speaker 1: don't know why he wanted the corps. Why was he

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Speaker 1: obsessed with getting that corpse. I mean, it's cold, but

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Speaker 1: those stories have to be told, right. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: that was two brothers who were killed, neither of whom

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Speaker 1: were Haamas medicines. The soldier says, they just crossed an

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Speaker 1: invisible line. They didn't know they weren't supposed to go

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Speaker 1: down that road, so I shot them right. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, when we talk about Palestinians, they're so dehumanized.

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Speaker 1: The only way sometimes we can get people to listen

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Speaker 1: to as we say, look how many children they killed?

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Speaker 1: Look how many women they killed. I'm sorry, the men

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Speaker 1: aren't all guilty of a crime either Palestinian. A young

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Speaker 1: Palestinian man trying to go to school or work who

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Speaker 1: gets killed, he automatically gets designated, or terrorists because he's

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Speaker 1: a combat age man. No, they've killed many, many innocent

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Speaker 1: young men. By the way, the father also went to

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Speaker 1: get his two sons bodies. They shot him too. So

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Speaker 1: this is these are the stories we have to tell

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Speaker 1: because Americans. I believe that Americans are fundamentally good people,

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Speaker 1: and I believe Americans don't want this happening in their name.

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Speaker 1: They just don't know a lot of them.

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Speaker 5: I think we don't want our tax VID dollars going

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Speaker 5: towards it, and I think we're just desensitized the war.

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Speaker 2: That's why I think during the violence in general, in

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Speaker 2: this in general, but that's why I.

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Speaker 5: Think during the Vietnam War was so impactful when they

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Speaker 5: were able to show the images of what was happening,

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Speaker 5: because you know, you might hear two three million people

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Speaker 5: get killed, which is ridiculous, but when you see it

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Speaker 5: and realize, oh, you are just regular civilians, or even

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Speaker 5: the words we use when they would say insurgents like

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Speaker 5: insurgents in Iraq got killed.

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Speaker 2: Like it's like, you know, we dehumanize people.

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Speaker 1: And everything becomes hamas. Right I did. I did a

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Speaker 1: list for sea for my drugs about a year ago.

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Speaker 1: Like everyone and everything that is hamassd. Now like anyone

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Speaker 1: who said it, you're a hammasd. You and Hammas Save

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Speaker 1: the children, ox Fam Hammas, like charities Hammas. Any foreign

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Speaker 1: government that says anything about is Hammas. I interviewed Miss

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Speaker 1: Rachel like YouTube child star, She's she's Hammas. Everyone is hamas,

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Speaker 1: Like it is ridiculous. Right If Miss Rachel is Hamas,

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Speaker 1: then you've lost the argument your book.

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Speaker 2: I haven't got a chance to redtaiate. You just gave

433
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,480
Speaker 2: it to me this one. But win the art of

434
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,600
Speaker 2: debating every persuading and argument.

435
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,040
Speaker 1: That's the stupid cover that makes you look it's actually

436
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,719
Speaker 1: win every argument with the way it's it looks like that.

437
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:54,680
Speaker 1: That's one of the funny things.

438
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,960
Speaker 5: Okay, I don't want to argue and I don't want

439
00:17:58,960 --> 00:17:59,600
Speaker 5: to win argument.

440
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,080
Speaker 2: I just want to learn. Yeah, so why do you

441
00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,360
Speaker 2: think arguing is the I mean, you end up doing

442
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:05,040
Speaker 2: it anyway, but.

443
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you end up doing it anyway. So that's

444
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:08,800
Speaker 1: one thing you can't avoid. It is one thing I say,

445
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,080
Speaker 1: whether you want to avoid an argument, you can't. Therefore

446
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 1: you should be equipped for It's a book. It's a

447
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,359
Speaker 1: very practical book about skills, debating skills and arguing skills.

448
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 1: But also I do think arguing gets a bad rap, right.

449
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,520
Speaker 1: There's bad faith argument, people who argue for the sake

450
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,640
Speaker 1: of arguing, people who argue without really believing what they're saying.

451
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,120
Speaker 1: A lot of cable news talking heads that have given

452
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,160
Speaker 1: argument a bad rap. But argument fundamentally, intrinsically is about

453
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 1: disagreeing in good faith, trying to come to a conclusion.

454
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,399
Speaker 1: I would argue that you can't find the truth unless

455
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,199
Speaker 1: you have a back and forth. We don't want to

456
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 1: live in echo chambers where everyone agrees with each other

457
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,439
Speaker 1: all the time. We should have healthy debate, productive debate.

458
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,280
Speaker 1: That is how people discover truth new ideas. I do

459
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,359
Speaker 1: think democracy requires healthy debate and argument. Going back to

460
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,880
Speaker 1: ancient Greece, you're having people have at flesh out the issues,

461
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:53,480
Speaker 1: but it has to be done in good faith. What

462
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 1: we've done in the US, especially and especially in our

463
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,920
Speaker 1: cable news world. I'm an XMSNBC host We have a

464
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,120
Speaker 1: lot of bad faith argument, a lot of fake debates,

465
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 1: and I think that's undermined. And this book is about saying,

466
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 1: you know what, arguing can be fun. People who do

467
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 1: debate club in high school kids love some kids love

468
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,919
Speaker 1: doing that because it can be so pure and so

469
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,400
Speaker 1: raw and so authentic. But we've lost that. Our media

470
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 1: has killed what was good faith debate and argument, and

471
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 1: this book is an attempt to try and bring it back.

472
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,520
Speaker 5: How do you know when you're in one? How do

473
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,200
Speaker 5: you know when you're in a healthy debate, a good

474
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:21,879
Speaker 5: faith debate.

475
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,000
Speaker 1: That's a good question. It's hard sometimes I realize halfway through.

476
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,800
Speaker 1: I did the Jubilee debate onto, which was insane. I

477
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 1: went into that obviously I knew there were going to

478
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,919
Speaker 1: be some bad faith people. I didn't realize all of

479
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:35,919
Speaker 1: them would be insane, Like I went with like notes

480
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 1: and facts and figures, like traditional all of it was

481
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 1: a waste of time, Like these people are not interested

482
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 1: in that stuff. So sometimes you kind of realize it

483
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 1: in the middle of it. You know, the Supreme Court

484
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 1: was once as how do you know, how do you

485
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,119
Speaker 1: define porn? And they're like, you know it when you

486
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:51,679
Speaker 1: see it? Right when you're in the debate and you

487
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 1: know there's a bad I've interviewed people that I realize

488
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,160
Speaker 1: I've interview like leading politicians from our government foreign governments,

489
00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,280
Speaker 1: and halfway through you realize that this guy is just

490
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 1: not interested, just pure bullshit.

491
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the twenty of you one, that's just entertainment.

492
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,399
Speaker 5: It can't be in good face because it's literally designed.

493
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,480
Speaker 1: To be say that. But what's interesting that I'm gonna

494
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 1: sad part is that. But if you watch all the

495
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 1: right wingers who went on it, if you watch Jordan

496
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,920
Speaker 1: Peterson or Candice Owens when they go on it, they

497
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 1: get a bunch of like well meaning, really earnest young

498
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 1: liberals who are like, ah, but mister Peterson, what do

499
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 1: you think about that? You know, this argument against God?

500
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 1: Like I go on it and I'm like, get out

501
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: of our country, and I.

502
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 2: Feel like I feel like I'm fascist.

503
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 1: I'm a fascist. Yeah, I'm a fascist. So I think

504
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 1: I do think like there is a real asymmetry in

505
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 1: our politics right now, which is where like there are

506
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,639
Speaker 1: a lot of liberals leftist who do want to have

507
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,679
Speaker 1: like a really earnest argument about policy, Like how do

508
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 1: we get Medicare for all. And on the other side,

509
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 1: there's like how do we get rid of all the

510
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,399
Speaker 1: black and brown people? And it's not the same thing.

511
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 1: I know the media loves to treat It's like both sides,

512
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 1: the far left and the far right. The far left

513
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 1: once universal healthcare, the far right wants Nazism. That's not

514
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 1: the same thing.

515
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:54,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you jump into those debates, you know, there's

516
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,879
Speaker 3: so much misinformation out there. They really believe some of

517
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 3: the stuff sometimes and some of the times. Which makes

518
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,920
Speaker 3: it horrible is these news programs report misinformation like it's right.

519
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 3: So how do you debate somebody that is getting misinformation

520
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,120
Speaker 3: that believes they are totally right.

521
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 4: We see it all the time. We see it pay

522
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:10,879
Speaker 4: all the time as well.

523
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,159
Speaker 1: So here's my thing. When I debate a lot of

524
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 1: those people, I'm not trying to change their minds. I'm

525
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: trying to change the audience. I'm always got my eye

526
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 1: on the third agent in the room or not in

527
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 1: the room at home, watching on YouTube, and I think

528
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 1: sometimes we get lost and like, I'm going to change

529
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 1: your mind when I go on with some of these

530
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: freaks and ghouls on Piers Morgan Show to comeing to

531
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 1: defend the genocide. I'm not trying to change their mind.

532
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 1: I'm not going to change the mind of someone who's

533
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 1: defending a genocide two years in right, that person is

534
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 1: a lost cause morally and politically. What I'm trying to

535
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 1: do is get some people in the middle who may

536
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 1: have accidentally come across this show or debate while while

537
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,719
Speaker 1: they were surfing on YouTube, and maybe they're open minded

538
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 1: to say, oh, I didn't know that. I didn't hear

539
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,120
Speaker 1: that particular argument. I never heard the humanization of these people.

540
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 1: I just see as insurgents or militant or terrorists. So

541
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: my goal is always and the first chapter of my

542
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: book is win over an audience. The audience is key.

543
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: It's not about you and the other person. It is

544
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,440
Speaker 1: about the watching audience. Because I want to change people minds.

545
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 1: That's what I do want to do. Otherwise, just as

546
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: you say, it's just entertainment if you're not actually having in.

547
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 5: A different perspective than I think a lot of people,

548
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 5: because I think a lot of people do focus on

549
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 5: the audience, but they focus on the audience because they

550
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 5: want an amn corner, as opposed they're actually trying to

551
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 5: teach them.

552
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I find that sometimes boring. I go to

553
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 1: events and the whole audience agrees with me. It's nice,

554
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: it's good for the ego. Everyone's aplouting everything, but it's not.

555
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,360
Speaker 1: I much prefer having an audience. That's what That's why

556
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 1: I do. People like, why do you go on Piers

557
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 1: Morgan show?

558
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 2: It's this.

559
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,199
Speaker 1: I was like, whether you like it or not, you

560
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 1: reach a huge audience and people who don't agree with

561
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: you around the world, and that is an opportunity. Now

562
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: there's a there's a line like I don't I don't.

563
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: I know you go on Fox. I don't go on Fox.

564
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,880
Speaker 1: I wouldn't go on because though the.

565
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 5: Reason I think you should is that I think, look,

566
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 5: look how effective President Obama was when he went on there.

567
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 5: Think about how effective Stewart was when he goes on,

568
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 5: and think about GAVI people many you absolutely no.

569
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 4: I'll tell you why.

570
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why.

571
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 7: I come, you do the you believe, but not go

572
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 7: on Fox?

573
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 1: I mean, would I do the jubilee again? Though? That's

574
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 1: the issue. So so the thing is that jubilate. I

575
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 1: have a I have a basic standard, which is like

576
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 1: you asked about debating, and how do you know about

577
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: like I won't debate white supremacy. People say, oh, you

578
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,439
Speaker 1: should interview Marjorie Taylor Green. I'm like, the woman is

579
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 1: you know, she's she thinks the rothschild lasers, calls fires like,

580
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: she's she has weird QAnon conspiracy theories. She's an anti vaxer.

581
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: She's a climate denier. Like I don't think there is

582
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: value in debating holocaust deniers, climate change deniers, election denies.

583
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: It's just pointless, right, I'm not going to debate is

584
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: up down, it's cold, hot? Is black? White? I just

585
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: don't think there's Invalua.

586
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 2: You've never been in a.

587
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: I'm a loyal Korean barbershop down. I've had these debates.

588
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 1: I'm just saying they're not valuable. I try and avoid them.

589
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 1: But going on Fox, for example, I get the I

590
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 1: get the argument what democrats make like we should go

591
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: and reach a new audience. Bernie does a lot of Fox.

592
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: The problem is the Fox model is not built around

593
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 1: it simply, it's built around entertainment, as you say. And also,

594
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: I do think Fox is an irredeemable company in the

595
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: sense that it is a force for evil in this

596
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: world in terms of spreading racism and misogyny and election

597
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: denial and climate denier, and I just think me going

598
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: on there. I know this sounds silly because it's a huge,

599
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 1: big Fox a little old Mardy hasn't. But I don't

600
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 1: want to go on and legitimize them. I know that

601
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 1: sounds old fashioned quaint, but I feel like if I

602
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: go on there, then I'm treating it like a legitimate

603
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: news outlet. I don't even call it Fox News. I

604
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: call it Fox. It's not a news outlet. I mean

605
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: they paid billions of doll they pay one hundreds of

606
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 1: million dollars in settlement to dominion. They are a propaganda

607
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: outlet for the Republican Party and for Maga. So for me,

608
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: I just don't see the value by the way that

609
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: people who go on you can go on and do

610
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: a great job on Lara Trump. Problem me is for

611
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: the next twenty three hours, they undermine everything you said

612
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: in that one hour, So it doesn't really have an

613
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: enduring factor, which is why when you poll Fox viewers

614
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: they are so misinformed no matter how many Charlemain's, Pete

615
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: Buddha Judges or Bernies go on.

616
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: But then when I'm out in the street.

617
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 5: I see the real reaction to you know what I mean,

618
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 5: I don't see the propaganda that's being pushed. Are a

619
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 5: message or native they're trying to push actual people come

620
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 5: up to me and be like, hey man, I'm a

621
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 5: lot farther right than you, but I appreciate a lot.

622
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: Of the things that you say.

623
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 1: That's fair.

624
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 5: You know, do you think mainstreaming journalism in the US

625
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 5: have gotten too cozy with power?

626
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 1: I would dispute the premise of your question. Gotten too

627
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: cozy with pot It's always it's always been cozy. When

628
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: was it not cozy with Powell? Right now, we're in

629
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: a different situation, which is we have media outlets joining

630
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: up with a fascistic government. That's a whole different ballgame.

631
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: But in general, the US media has always been too

632
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: cozy with power, never really taken an adversarial position against

633
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: people in power. Journalism should be adversarial. Journalism should be

634
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 1: challenging the people in power. It should be you know,

635
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,479
Speaker 1: you know, what's the line afflicting the comfortable and comforting

636
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: the afflicted. And we've really not done that in the US.

637
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: When I moved here in twenty sixteen, one of the

638
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: reasons people got to know me was because I do

639
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: tough interviews and people were saying to me on the street, like,

640
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: you're that guy who did that interview Eric Prince, I

641
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: can't believe out. And then I went to MSNBC and

642
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: I started doing those interviews and luckily some other people

643
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: started following me. And now I think interviewing has improved

644
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: a bit on cable, but in general, for example, we

645
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: don't do tough interviews in this country with people in power.

646
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: It is. You watch some of the Sunday Morning interviews,

647
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: it's very, very friendly. Like I saw one the other

648
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 1: day where Marco Rubio just said some absolute bs and

649
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: Margaret Brennan said thank you for joining us, and it's like,

650
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: where's the follow up? So I do think that is

651
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 1: a problem, especially our interviews on not Adversaria.

652
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 5: Now I'm going to ask you a question. I thought

653
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 5: I knew the answer to how do we break this

654
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 5: cycle today? And the reason I say I thought I

655
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 5: knew the answer to it is because I thought that

656
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 5: these new media outlets, you know, the things that the

657
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 5: stuff that was popping up on YouTube, I thought they

658
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 5: were going to break this cycle. But it seems like

659
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 5: a lot of them are causing up the power as well.

660
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: That's interesting, So not us, not zeteo. We're not cozy

661
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: up to power either side. Obviously we're very critical of

662
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: the publican body, but we're also critical of the Democratic

663
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: Party as well when when we need to be. I think, yeah,

664
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 1: a lot of the quote unquote independent outlets are not

665
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: that independent. You took at someone like Tucker Carlson. I

666
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: saw him on the Piers Morgan Show talking at Piers

667
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 1: Morgan again to me name checks of peers. He was

668
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: on the show this week and I heard him say,

669
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: you know, I do like Donald Trump. I campaigned for him.

670
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 1: I don't think journalist should be campaigning for politicians. I

671
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: just don't think that's our role if you call yourself

672
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: a journalist. I mean, everyone knows my preference is an election.

673
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: I don't want Donald Trump to be president. I didn't

674
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: want him to win last year. But I didn't go

675
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: out and like do events for Kamala Harris. That would

676
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: be insane. So I think, you know, that's a real

677
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: problem that a lot of people on the right, obviously,

678
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: I mean Epstein. The Epstein story is the classic example.

679
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: It was independent quote unquote media that led that story

680
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: even more than Fox. It was the right wing YouTubers

681
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: and podcasters that really pushed Epstein, Epstein, Nepstey Nepstein. And

682
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: then they got those stupid files and they waved them

683
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 1: outside the White House. And then it turns out there

684
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: are you know, the Epstein files are not out, they

685
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: haven't been released, they're never going to be released. And

686
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: these guys just went silent. They were like, we trust

687
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: the president. I mean, i'magine saying that. First of all,

688
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: no journalist should ever say we trust the president any president. Certainly,

689
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: you should never trust a man who lies with every breath.

690
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 7: What do you think will emerge as like the leading

691
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 7: place in media because it's not cable news anymore, YouTube

692
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 7: and online It's like you got to know who you

693
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 7: listening to, whether it's factual information?

694
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like what will be that one?

695
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 7: Like go to here's where we know we can trust

696
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 7: that will emerge out of all of this mess, I.

697
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: Mean the shameless small business and me, says Zeteo, come

698
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: to my media side. But the serious answer is, I

699
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 1: don't think we can predict. I think anyone who tells

700
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 1: you they know what the media looks like in three, four,

701
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: five years time is either a liar or a four.

702
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: I mean, none of us could have even seen where

703
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: we are today three or four years ago. I don't

704
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: think if you'd said before the twenty twenty four election

705
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: that the big question is going to be did Kamala

706
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: Harris go on Rogan? If you'd said that in twenty twenty,

707
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: people are laughed in your face. If you'd said ten

708
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: years ago, the guy from Home alone two would be

709
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: president the United States, people are laughed in your face.

710
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: So I don't think anyone can predict where it's going.

711
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: What I can say is, obviously YouTube is a dominant

712
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: force right now. I mean that Jubilee is a classic

713
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: example of that. You talk about people, the number of

714
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: young people. I was on a college campus last night.

715
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: All the college students had really never seen me in

716
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: anything except Jubilee. They're like, you're the guy from that

717
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: circled debate. So that the YouTube power, especially for young people,

718
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: is massive. Obviously that's a problem because it's owned by Google,

719
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: and Google has its own agenda, which ain't always great

720
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: when it comes to misinformation. You just saw the heads

721
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: of Google and Microsoft and Facebook and Meta all sitting

722
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: around the table with Donald Trump lavishing praise on him

723
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: just the other night. So it's not great that these

724
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: big tech corporations control so much of our discourse, but

725
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: that's the world we're in right now.

726
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: I definitely want the record to show that.

727
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 5: In February twenty twenty four, I absolutely told the Vice

728
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 5: President she needs to go on Rogan and she needs

729
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 5: to start going on Fox News. Yeah, because my thinking was,

730
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 5: Joe Biden is not going to win this election in

731
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 5: November unless you start getting out more in the forefront

732
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 5: and showing people who you are, so at least they

733
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 5: feel like, well, maybe I can vote for her on

734
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 5: the ticket. This is the way before she even became

735
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 5: a nomineer. And this was February twenty twenty four.

736
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: Have you seen the extract in The Atlantic today from

737
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: my did I was glad and she's saying that she's

738
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: basically saying what you'll say. She's like, I tried to

739
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: get out there. They should have realized that putting me

740
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: out that would help them look like they've got a

741
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: succession plan, that they have confidence in me, and they didn't. Right,

742
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: They've no daylight, no daylight. And she, by the way,

743
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: she I need to read the whole thing. I need

744
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: to read a whole book. But like she has done, so,

745
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: why she didn't just say, oh, get lost, I'm doing

746
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: my thing.

747
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 2: I can't wait to read it.

748
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 5: I'm want to read you something from that expert that

749
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 5: came exert excerpt that came out to day, She says,

750
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 5: I gave a strong speech on the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

751
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 5: Desperate people have been shot when they formed a food truck,

752
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 5: and I spoke of families reduced to eating leaves or

753
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 5: animal feed, women prematurely giving birth with a little or

754
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 5: non medical care, and children dying.

755
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 2: From malnutrition and dehydration.

756
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 5: I reiterated mass grand support for Israel security and called

757
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 5: on her master release the hostages and accept the ceasefire agreement.

758
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 5: Then on the table, I also called on Israel for

759
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 5: greater access to aid. It was a speech that had

760
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 5: been vetted and approved by the White House in the

761
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 5: National Security Council, and went viral, and the West Wing

762
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 5: was displeased. I was castigated for apparently delivering it too well,

763
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 5: what do you think when you hear that? So?

764
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: I think two things. Number one, I think the Joe

765
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: Biden administration will forever be complicit in a genocide. The

766
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: genocide would not have happened had Biden not hugged Netnaho clothes,

767
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: given him pretty much everything he wanted. We rightly castigate

768
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: Trump right now, but we have to remember this began

769
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: on Joe Biden's watch. At any time, he could have

770
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: pulled the plug on the whole thing. He could have

771
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: called net Neon to end it now it's over. He

772
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: did not do that. He had multiple opportunities. Did not

773
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: do that. Harris. Here's a second point. I think Harris

774
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:51,959
Speaker 1: would have been better on Gaza than Biden. I think

775
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: Harris definitely would have been better on Gaza than Trump.

776
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: But it's very hard to persuade people, especially my Palestinian friends,

777
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: will say, no way. She was up to it, up

778
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,479
Speaker 1: to a neck in it with Biden. I do think

779
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: that like that speech and other little things she did

780
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: were signals that she would be better on it. I

781
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: had people in the White House who were on her

782
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: side were telling me at the time, Harris is definitely

783
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: better than Biden. Although the bar is low, it's not

784
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: hard to be better than Biden on Gaza. The problem

785
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: is she didn't do it right. She didn't take that

786
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: opportunity and she, you know, will never know. Right, it's

787
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: one of the great counterfactionals. Would Israel be bombing Katar

788
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: and Iran and ethnic cleansing now if Kamala Harris's president,

789
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: will never know because she didn't take the opportunity to,

790
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: you know, politely throw Joe Biden under the bus. She

791
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: went on the view for me the day I knew

792
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: she lost that election. When she went on the view

793
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: and they say, what would you do differently to Joe

794
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: Biden and she says nothing. I'm not even saying Gaza.

795
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: I'm not even saying she should have come out and

796
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: been like, I'm going to recognize a Palestinian state and

797
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop just anything, healthcare, the economy, immigration, nothing right.

798
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: It's a change election. People want change. People aren't happy

799
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: with all the polling told us. People were dissatisfied with

800
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: the economy, dissatisfied with dirt correctory. You come in and

801
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: you go, I'm gonna take it from Joe Biden, but

802
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: it's going to be the same. That is insanity. Whoever

803
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: is advising I should never work in politics again. I

804
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: know they're all trying to rehabilitate their careers. That was

805
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: an insane electoral strategy.

806
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: I agree.

807
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 5: It's my opinion that I don't know what's gonna happen

808
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 5: for her in the future.

809
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 2: But what I like about what she's writing in his book.

810
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 5: To your point, I've been saying it over and over,

811
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 5: whoever is going to lead the Democratic Party in the future.

812
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: You have to throw the Biden administration under the bus.

813
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: I have to. I think you have to throw all

814
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: of the buggest Democrats.

815
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: The whole region.

816
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about Epstein right now. I mean

817
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton, Bill Clint's in the book right He's in

818
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: the birthday book. Gilaine was all the family events, hanging

819
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: out with Chelsea unrest. I mean, let all of them

820
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: got to go again. I mean Donald Trump won in

821
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen when he took on the entire Republican establishment.

822
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: Let's not forget how he won in twenty sixteen. I

823
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: was I remember watching a debate. I was sitting on

824
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: my couch, right. He is a debate in twenty fifteen,

825
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: and he goes on TV and he says, he says

826
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: to Jeb Bush. He goes, well, the Twin Towns came

827
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: down under your brother. Oh, he didn't do. He didn't

828
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: just say that Republican grand Instead of getting booed, he

829
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: gets booed by a few people, crowd cheer, his pollingd

830
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: goes up. Right, he throws the Bushes under the bus,

831
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: happily blames them for Iraq nine to eleven, even though

832
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: Trump supported the war. But he throws them all under

833
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: the bus. Right, you have to be able to the

834
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: Democratic Convention last year had Clinton and Obama and Hillary

835
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: still speaking. Get rid of these people. People are done,

836
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: whether you think they were good or bad presidents, and

837
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: they all had pros and cons Clinton, Obama, Biden, they

838
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: all did good things and bad things. Move on. You've

839
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: got to be forward looking. We're here in New York.

840
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: You're a candidate who's forward looking. Stop living in the past.

841
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: Why is Bill Clinton, a man who hasn't been president

842
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: for twenty five years, speaking at the DNC.

843
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 5: What do you think about the mayor race in New York?

844
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 5: Hold on, before we get did that. What you said

845
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 5: is so profound. Just now I'm gonna tell you why

846
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 5: twenty sixteen, that's exactly what Trump did. But Trump was

847
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 5: also an outsider. We know nobody in the Democratic Party.

848
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 2: Is going to do that. I love a lot of

849
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 2: these Peoplespiro.

850
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: I like, what was more, they all have redlines. They're

851
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: not people they weren't criticized.

852
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's why it has to be somebody like a

853
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 5: John Stewart. It has to be an outsider. I agree,

854
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 5: you're the only ones that's going to throw them under the.

855
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: Bus outside of or kind of fresh blood to go

856
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: back to a mum Dani who is within the party

857
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: but has the guts to take on the establishment. I

858
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: mean John Stewart. Obviously, you and I are big fans

859
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: of John Stewart and running. I wrote a piece saying

860
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: he should throw his hat in the ring. I'm not

861
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: saying he's going to be the best president or he

862
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 1: should be president. I'm saying the Democratic president your primary

863
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: debates could do with the John Stewart on stage throwing

864
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: some fireworks and hand grenades in Now.

865
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 4: What do you think about the mayor race in New

866
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 4: York City.

867
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: I think it's great. I'm loving it.

868
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 3: I'm happy Trump's about the They say Trump's going to

869
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 3: pull in Adams so it's a little easier.

870
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you look at the poll league

871
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: that came out this week, if you add up Adams,

872
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 1: Sleewer and Cuomo, they do have a marginal lead on

873
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: mum Daney. Clearly Mumdaney's benefiting from a divided opposition, But

874
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: I think that's very simplistic to suggest that all of

875
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: the people who support those candidates would immediately go to

876
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: another candidate. There are a lot of people who support

877
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: Adams and Sleewa, I'm sure, who look at Quomo and

878
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: be like, if our guys not on the race, we're

879
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: back in m Nania. We're staying at home. Right, This

880
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: idea that Cuomo will automatically command support from the other

881
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: I mean, Zora Mumdaney is both a once in a

882
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: generation political talent terms of his communication skills, in terms

883
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: of his policy platform, in terms of his charisma. He's

884
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: once in a generation like Obama ESQ, no doubt about that,

885
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 1: even his enemies conceived that. But at the same time,

886
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: he's also benefited. He's a lucky candidate in that he

887
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: has his opposition divided between three people, two of whom

888
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: are clearly freaks. And I'm not talking about Curtis Leewer.

889
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 5: I don't know if he's the once in a lifetime

890
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 5: generational talent. I think that he's just speaking to common

891
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 5: sense issues. When he's walking around saying, you know, New

892
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 5: York is too affordable.

893
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: And he's talking about sanity.

894
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: Has he saying that?

895
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 2: He's just saying it.

896
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: He's saying in a way that resonates. He's I know

897
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: he has a great I know the people on his team.

898
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: He has a great social media team, and they make

899
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: the snazzy videos. But you could take a bunch. You

900
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: could take one hundred random house democrats, one hundred random

901
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: house democrats, pick them out of a hat and put

902
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: them in those videos, and those videos wouldn't work. The

903
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: videos are brilliantly made. But it's Zoran's face, it's Zoran's voice,

904
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: it's his natural humor, it's his charisma, it's his ability

905
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: to reach people. He's got that big smile. Don't underestimate

906
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: the power of that big smile. He's Muslim like me,

907
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: so unfortunately I don't have that big smile, so I

908
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: have resting, angry Muslim face.

909
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 2: So I can't he why in his work and if

910
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 2: he sold such such.

911
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: A great I do like I do political annosis. You

912
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: can tell me why he's wrapped him like I'm telling

913
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: you as a politician, if he was not born in Uganda,

914
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: the morning after he wins that Maryrial race, he would

915
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: be the top of that twenty twenty eight primary field

916
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: that we talk about. People would immediately say he's the

917
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: guy who should be president.

918
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 5: Yes, I think you know, it's interesting because I always

919
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 5: say progressives and liberals cannibalize themselves.

920
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 2: Because they want purity.

921
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 5: And I see people getting upset with him because he

922
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 5: was on our sharp and and he said he would

923
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 5: he will discourage the globalized then into FIDA phrase, and

924
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 5: people are like, oh.

925
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 2: See, he's already shi down. He's already you know town

926
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 2: in Israel.

927
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 5: It's just like you're in New York City. You need

928
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 5: some Jewish people to vote for you. You didn't do.

929
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 2: That well with black people.

930
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 5: You're gonna need them as well. Why would you not

931
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 5: understand the politics of there?

932
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe you believed that.

933
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: No, there is politics to that. I would point out,

934
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: by the way that even before he shifted a little

935
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,959
Speaker 1: bit on this position, he was already leading with Jewish

936
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: voters in New York. The BS smear campaigns were not working, right.

937
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: You had the ADLs and the Bill Ackmans and the

938
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: Donald Trump say this guy's an anti semi but Jewish

939
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: New Yorkers are too smart for that. They're like, no,

940
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 1: he's ulf proferred candidate. He has a double digit leader

941
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: amongs Jewish Newyorkers. So I don't think he actually does

942
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 1: need to shift on this. But if he is shifting

943
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: on it, fine on the language, I think we got

944
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: to look first of all, you're right, the purity tests

945
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: are pointless here. The choices between him and Andrew Cromo,

946
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: The choices between Zoron Mundani, a man who came on

947
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: my show a year ago when he was pulling at

948
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: one percent, and he said, if Benjamin Netnio comes to

949
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: New York, I'll arrest him because there's aar restaurant out

950
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: from the ICC. That's one choice. The other choices Andrew Cromo,

951
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: a man who said, hey, mister Neto, can I represent

952
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: you at the International Criminal I'll be your lawyer to

953
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: defend your war crimes. That is the choice fundamentally on Israel.

954
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: If Israel is your issue, and you're voting on that,

955
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: even though the mayor of New Yor doesn't control forign policy,

956
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: if that is your big issue, there's no choice right,

957
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: it's it's the guy who said he arrested. That's the

958
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: guy who said I'll be Net' lawyer. There's no starker

959
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: choice that. But look, you're right. The problem is there's

960
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people in the activist class which is

961
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: which does And I get it. I understand it's a

962
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: very emotive issue. People don't want to feel like they're

963
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: being thrown under the bus. I understand why a lot

964
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: of activists upset with the change because there has been

965
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: the smear that if you say river to the Sea Palestine,

966
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: will you're genocidal. That's not at all what people mean

967
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: by that. But I think you're right the big picture.

968
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: You're right. Like the right looks for the right looks

969
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: for converts, the left looks for traders. That has always

970
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: been the case in my lifetime. The left are the

971
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: masters of circular firing squads. We turn on each other

972
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: much quicker than we turn on our actual opponents, and

973
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: that's always been a problem. That's not new. So do

974
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: you depressing? But it's not new?

975
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 2: So knowing that, do you like his chances? Yes, okay,

976
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: I do.

977
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 1: Like his chances, and I wish I wish if slash

978
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: when he wins he was able to run for president,

979
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: but we have an amendment to the constitution that says

980
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: you can't. Although if Donald Trump can run for a

981
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: third term, I'm dade he should run.

982
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 2: Fact like that. I don't even know why we're even

983
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 2: in a team that conversation.

984
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: About unfortunately, because he keeps saying it.

985
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: Donald Trump runs for a third term is over. Maydy.

986
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 2: I know, like we're I know, not going to be

987
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 2: a free and fair election. I know we would be

988
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 2: fooled even.

989
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: I don't think there will be an election now. He

990
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't run an election. He would simply cancel the elections,

991
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: saying national emergency. He's already floated this, but you saw

992
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: them sitting with Zelenski saying, oh so you don't have

993
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: elections because you're in a warrant emergency. Oh so if

994
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: I had that here, we would be able not to

995
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: have thet He's already thinking that. With Trump, he's always

996
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: part trolling, part joking, but part serious. And Steve Bannon,

997
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: by the way, who was a very serious figure, has

998
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: been very open about the fact that they are working

999
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: on a plan to keep him an office beyond twenty

1000
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: twenty eight.

1001
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 2: Do you believe in Democrats moving forward.

1002
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: The big de Democratic Party the whole have not under

1003
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: the leadership of the current folks. No, I've openly said

1004
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: that Hakeem Jeffreys and Chuck Schumer should go. They need

1005
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: to stand down. They are not as you as you

1006
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: called him. Apak Shakor is not the man for this moment.

1007
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: They are ludicrous in their interventions. They both keep saying, oh,

1008
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: we need a strongly worded letter like this is not

1009
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: that they literally I'm not even making that up. That's

1010
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: not me being sarcastic. They've actually on the record saying

1011
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: the age of DC did a really good letter. Chuck

1012
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: Schumer was like, I wrote a really good letter about Harvard, Like,

1013
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: this is not the time for letters right American democracies

1014
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: on the line. We may not have a free and

1015
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 1: fair election in twenty twenty eight, and these two guys

1016
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: are pining for a golden age of bipartisan politics that

1017
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 1: never existed and certainly doesn't exist right now. We need

1018
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: people who are going to fight. And I say this

1019
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 1: not as a big de Democrat. I'm not a Democrat,

1020
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: a small de Democrat, someone who believes in democracy wants

1021
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: my kids to grow up. In a democratic America, we

1022
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: only have two parties, so the opposition party has to

1023
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: do the fighting for us. These people don't fight. Nobody

1024
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: believes that Chuck Schuman, Hakem Jeffreys are fighters. But there

1025
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: are other Democrats who can. Just as you say, they're

1026
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: too scared to challenge.

1027
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 7: Who are the people that become like the voice or

1028
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 7: like the you know, like you have like people that

1029
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 7: you point today.

1030
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: They do have a fight, They do have the fight.

1031
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: There are Democrats who fight, so I I mean, there

1032
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: are there are obvious people like the aocs of this world,

1033
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: the Ilhanomas, the Rashida Tilab's, and the squad who are

1034
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: very outspoken. But there are other people. There's Jasmin Crockett's

1035
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: got a big following now. She's been very outspoken from

1036
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: Texas in the Senate. There's people like Chris van Holland

1037
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: and Maryland who went to El Salvador when apparently Kim

1038
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 1: Jeffreys was telling don't go to El Salvador, it's unpopular issue.

1039
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: Chris Van Holand went to El Salvador and got kill

1040
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: mart Obrigo Garcia back. He came back because the people

1041
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: like Chris van Holland going out there and picking that fight.

1042
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: So I think there are Democrats who are willing to

1043
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 1: speak out on some issues. Jamie Raskin is always very

1044
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: strong unconstitutional issues. There are a bunch of them, but

1045
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: they just don't have leadership roles because Democrats are in

1046
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: this kind of Why Chuck Schumer lost the Senate, he

1047
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: should have resigned the next day. Like, you lose an election,

1048
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: you should stand down. We live in a country where

1049
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: you lose an election on the Democratic side, you don't

1050
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: stand down. On the Republican side, you say you wont

1051
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: like we need to get back to you lose, you quit,

1052
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: you move on with your life, build a library or

1053
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: whatever it is. These we have a gerontocracy in this country,

1054
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: or a bunch of old people who do not want

1055
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: to give up ower.

1056
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 5: How detrimental do you think it's going to be if

1057
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 5: Chuck Schumer, Hakim Jeffries just refuse the indoors Mundani and

1058
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 5: then like he loses, How.

1059
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: Detrimental do you think it's going to be in the whole.

1060
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 1: Oh, it would be so bad. Yeah, it will be

1061
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: so bad. I mean AOC made this point this week,

1062
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: and I've made this point before. Kim Jeffries is on

1063
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: the record. You can pull up his Twitter right now,

1064
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: there's a tweet still. He didn't even delete the tweet

1065
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: where he's like, vote blue no matter who. He's one

1066
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 1: of those guys vote blue no matter who. Apparently there

1067
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: was an asterisk that we didn't see that says vote

1068
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: blue no matter who. Unless you're progressive, then we'd how

1069
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: to vote for you. That's the kind that's the kind

1070
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: of nonsense that they're pushing out. So I think it's

1071
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: gonna hurt them. Right in twenty twenty eight, Let's say

1072
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: we get a centrist candidate and Democrats say we've got

1073
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: to stop Trump or Vans or whoever it is, got

1074
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: to get behind the candidate. You may not like all

1075
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: of Gavin Newsom's politics or JB. Pritzkill, got to get

1076
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: behind him. And I get that argument. You got to

1077
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: get behind the guy who's opposing the fascists. A lot

1078
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: of people on the left are gonna say, are you joking?

1079
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? Where was this in New York?

1080
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: When did you get behind it? They're doing huge long

1081
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: term damage to their ability to energize and get their

1082
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 1: base out because they're basically saying, now you don't have

1083
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 1: to vote for every Democratic candidate. Now we were just kidding.

1084
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: If you want, we can all withhold on nominations. When

1085
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: you see Jillibrand and Hokal and Jeffrees and schumer Ian,

1086
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: this is their state, this is their city. To not

1087
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: endorse your own candidate in your own city when you

1088
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: want a landslide is insane. People can see how hypocritical

1089
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: you are. And by the way, on Jeffreys, just one

1090
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 1: quick thing, they may win back the House next year.

1091
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that Jeffries is so bad he's going

1092
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: to stop the winning at the House. I think they

1093
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: might win back the House because the anti Trump wave

1094
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 1: is so strong. They'll win it back in spite of Jeffries,

1095
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: not because of Jefferies. But then you have another problem.

1096
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: Then you have Speaker Haquem Jeffries. Democrats have some power.

1097
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: What are they gonna do with that? Does he have

1098
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: a vision to create some resistance, to throw some sand

1099
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: in the wheels and the gears. No, I don't think

1100
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: he does. Is he gonna hold hearings? Is he gonna

1101
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: go after Trump's corruption? Is he gonna call is he

1102
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: going to be an actual insurgent speaker. I don't think so.

1103
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1104
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 5: I don't like people who say, well, just wait till

1105
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:35,959
Speaker 5: I get in a position. When I get in a position,

1106
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 5: I'm gonna show you.

1107
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: I'm show me down. Yeah.

1108
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 5: That's in an era where misinformation spreads fast and in

1109
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 5: fact that I know, you gotta go. How do you balance, okay,

1110
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 5: how do you balance calling out lies in real time

1111
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 5: without giving those live more actions.

1112
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: Oh, that is the existential question of our time for journalists.

1113
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you asked that question because I've struggled

1114
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: with that. I know you have everyone in my industry

1115
00:43:58,080 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: to struggle with this. When Donald Trump comes along and says,

1116
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: like the twenty twenty eight thing, right, how do we

1117
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 1: talk about twenty twenty eight without normalizing it. The more

1118
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:06,919
Speaker 1: we talk about it, the more we're like, oh, maybe

1119
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 1: he can run. Like Trump knows how to plant ideas

1120
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 1: of people's minds, how to lay the groundwork, plant the

1121
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: seeds for his bs. And it's a real problem. So

1122
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: when you're trying to all the studies show when you

1123
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: try and fact check someone or say this is a lie,

1124
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: what you said was false, a lot of people just

1125
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: hear the lie. They don't hear the correction, so it

1126
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: is a problem. So there is a guy called George

1127
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: Lacoff who is a cognitive psychologist, I think is his

1128
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: title at Berkeley, wrote a lot of books called Don't

1129
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: Think of an Elephant and other so he used to

1130
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: be very popular in the Democratic Party. Nancy Pelosi used

1131
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: to get advice from him. He said early on in

1132
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: the Trump era that you've got to respond with what's

1133
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: called a truth sandwich. Right, if you're confronted with someone

1134
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,720
Speaker 1: lying all the time, you've got to tell the truth,

1135
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: say what the truth is first, then rebut the lie,

1136
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: then say the truth again. Right. The lie has to

1137
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: be enveloped in truth, otherwise people will only ever hear

1138
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: the lie. So it takes more time, it takes more effort,

1139
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: and obviously we live in a world of hot takes

1140
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: and cable news and people up against ad breaks, so

1141
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 1: it becomes hard for journalists to do that. But that

1142
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,240
Speaker 1: is really the only demonstrable, proven way of really rebutting

1143
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: this stuff.

1144
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 7: But how impactful is that in reality? Because even if

1145
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 7: you do the sandwich, whatever outlet is going to grab

1146
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 7: what's in the middle, because that's what people You know,

1147
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 7: what I mean like that that's what get.

1148
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: People and that's it. And then that leads us to

1149
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: the question of which is are there more outlets grabbing

1150
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: the lie or more outlets grabbing the truth? And that

1151
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: comes back to a wide discussion about what does our

1152
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 1: media landscape look like? Right now? We have CBS News

1153
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: basically becoming an extension of the Donald Trump administration. They've

1154
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: just appointed an ombudsman who is a Trump donor, pro

1155
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: Israel guy was nominated for He's going to be the

1156
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: guy in charge of CBS news standards. Fantastic, Goodbye CBS,

1157
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: goodbye sixty minutes. So the media landscape is heading in

1158
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: a very right wing direction, which makes independent media so important,

1159
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 1: right that is the only option now because the corporations

1160
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: are not coming to save us. This idea that you know,

1161
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 1: I worked at MSNBC. I loved every minute of it.

1162
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: But MSNBC, which is now called MS now I think

1163
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 1: it's rebranded, is not coming to save you, right, None

1164
00:45:57,920 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: of the corporate media outlets are coming to save you.

1165
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 1: No matter what good journalism they may or may not do,

1166
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: they are not coming to save you because fundamentally, a

1167
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 1: lot of their owners, a lot of the c suites

1168
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: have already bent the kne to Trump, and therefore independent

1169
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: journalism becomes so important. Where are you getting your news

1170
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 1: on substack or on YouTube or on social media? Where

1171
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: are you going? Gas is a classic example of that.

1172
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: If you had just followed mainstream media the last two years,

1173
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: you wouldn't actually know what's going on. If you're on Instagram,

1174
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 1: for example, and I say, this is no fan of

1175
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg, But with that Instagram the Palestinian struggle in

1176
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 1: Gaza would not be known to the extent it is today.

1177
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 1: People like Motas Palestinian photograph fifteen million followers and Instagram.

1178
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,879
Speaker 1: He got out the images in the very early days

1179
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 1: of kids being bombed having their heads blown off, right,

1180
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 1: that was so important for people to see raw uncensored,

1181
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: not having to wait for the nightly news with all

1182
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 1: the censored footage, they were able to see it themselves

1183
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: from Palestinians on the ground. So I do think it

1184
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 1: matters where you go to get your information, and we

1185
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: do need to support independent journals for people watching and listening.

1186
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: When I say support, that means you've got to pay

1187
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: for it. Like I know, we live in a country

1188
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: where we want everything for free, especially young people. But

1189
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,399
Speaker 1: a free press isn't free. It costs money to hire

1190
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: reporters and do fact checks, have lawyers to protect you

1191
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: from BS defamation suits. All of that cost money.

1192
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 2: I got two more questions. You keep seeing you left MSNBC.

1193
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 2: I don't know why. I thought that you got fired

1194
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 2: because of your stance on Gather.

1195
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 1: So my shows were canceled. I had two shows on

1196
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: MSNBC and on Peacock, and my shows were canceled. There

1197
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: was a lot of coverage about why that was. They

1198
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: said to me, you can stay on as a guest

1199
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: host or on a analyst, and I said thanks, but

1200
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: no thanks. Because it was twenty twenty four, I had

1201
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 1: a feeling it was going to be a big year

1202
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: with a genocide and an election with a fascist, and

1203
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: I felt like I needed to be someone where could

1204
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: have my voice out there, completely unfiltered, uncensored, uncontrolled. And

1205
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: therefore it was a no brainer that not only was

1206
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 1: I going to leave MSNBC, I wasn't going to go

1207
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: to another publication or outlaw. I was going to start

1208
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: my own thing because I just wanted to be able

1209
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:43,479
Speaker 1: to have that free voice.

1210
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 2: And it was because you were speaking loudly about Gaza

1211
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 2: and what Israel was doing.

1212
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 5: Togather, you'd have to ask MSNBC, No, you talk about

1213
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 5: you did launch your own show, your own network.

1214
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 2: What's the name of it again, the tail?

1215
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 5: What has that experience taught you about independence, sustainability, and

1216
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 5: just the future of news media in general.

1217
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 1: I think what it's taught me is there is nothing

1218
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: that substitutes for authenticity. And you guys know that sitting

1219
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 1: around this table. You know that from talking to your listeners,

1220
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 1: meeting people on the street. We've grown very fast touch

1221
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: would I mean, we have half a million subscribers on subject.

1222
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: We have one point two million subscribers on YouTube. That's

1223
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: in just a year and a half. And that is

1224
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: because people wanted to hear authentic coverage. They wanted to

1225
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: hear my voice, or not just my voice, but some

1226
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 1: of our reporters and contributors. We've got people like Naomi

1227
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: Klein and Greta Tunberg and Basa Musa and other people contributing.

1228
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: And I think people want to hear that. They don't

1229
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: want to hear people who are self censoring, who are

1230
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: checking themselves, who are looking over their shoulder at a

1231
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: c suite or a standards department or lawyers. I think

1232
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 1: they want to see people who are speaking truthfully about

1233
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: the fascist threat at home and the genocidal threat abroad.

1234
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: They want to have a relationship with the people they

1235
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: follow and understand that they are putting their faith in

1236
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: those people, that group, that company to give them the truth.

1237
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: To go back to your question, where can they find?

1238
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 1: And I think that's back I've gotten. And the sustainability

1239
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: issue is we've proved we're sustainable. We're a year and

1240
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: a half in. We are doing very well. We just

1241
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: hired two new political reporters from Rolling Stone. We're expanding

1242
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: our team. I have fifteen full time employees now another

1243
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: half a dozen contractors, so we're growing. I'm amazed. I

1244
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: can't run a bath like the idea that I was

1245
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 1: going to run a company. Friends of mine are like,

1246
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 1: you're crazy. What the hell are you doing. You can't

1247
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: run anything. I said, I know, But here we are

1248
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: eighteen months later. We are running a successful progressive independent

1249
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: media company which is growing by the day. And I

1250
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 1: think that's taught me that there is a huge people.

1251
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: People are interested in long form journalist, people are interested

1252
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: in subs that they just want quick, hot takes on

1253
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 1: I don't believe that. That's not true. I think people

1254
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: are interested in That's why you're doing this show. That's

1255
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 1: why I'm doing what I do.

1256
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 3: All right, Well out the book, win every argument, the

1257
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 3: art of debating, persuading and public speaking.

1258
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 2: And thank you for joining scrouted in network.

1259
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: Thank you so much as a tail dot com And

1260
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: don't be a stranger man.

1261
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 2: Pull up anytime you want.

1262
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: Whenever I'm in New York. I'll drop your life.

1263
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 4: Meddi Hassan is the breakfast Club, Good Morning every day.

1264
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 1: A week ago.

1265
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 4: Up this club. You're finished for yar dumb