Speaker 1: A media Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted
Speaker 1: to let you know this is a compilation episode. So
Speaker 1: every episode of the week that just happened is here
Speaker 1: in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for
Speaker 1: you to listen to in a long stretch if you want.
Speaker 1: If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,
Speaker 1: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but
Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions.
Speaker 2: Welcome to it could happen here, the podcast that tells
Speaker 2: you what's going to happen before it's happening. I'm Garrison Davis.
Speaker 2: Joined with me is Mia Wong Glue. So today we're
Speaker 2: going to be talking about predictive programming, something that I
Speaker 2: assume some conspiracy theorist has accused of the show of doing,
Speaker 2: specifically Robert, but we're not going to talk about us
Speaker 2: too much. Instead, we're going to talk about the origin
Speaker 2: of this conspiracy theory and some famous use cases throughout
Speaker 2: history of how you might have been affected by predictive programming. Listener,
Speaker 2: So let's start by defining our terms here. Predictive programming
Speaker 2: is a conspiracy theory that future events are seeded within
Speaker 2: fictional media like film, TV, video games, and books to
Speaker 2: subliminally influence the public perception of real world events. But
Speaker 2: this isn't simply about movies like just predicting the future.
Speaker 2: It's an intentional method of large scale social conditioning used
Speaker 2: by a conspiracy of deep state government agents and the
Speaker 2: entertainment industry. This term was coined by a conspiracy theorist
Speaker 2: named Alan Watt. Different from the like pop Zen writer
Speaker 2: Alan Watts. Different guy, just a one letter difference. I'm
Speaker 2: sure they share some amount of audience crossover, but they
Speaker 2: are different people. He kind of coined this concept around
Speaker 2: the early two thousands. From what I can tell, he's
Speaker 2: a Scottish Canadian conspiracy theorist. Oddly enough, he's kind of
Speaker 2: one of the least problematic conspiracy theorists that I've run into.
Speaker 2: Like he's he's openly pushed back on on like anti
Speaker 2: semitism from David Ike and Alex Jones, Like he just
Speaker 2: seems to kind of be a silly guy. He died
Speaker 2: a few years ago. From what I can tell, at
Speaker 2: least on like a cursory search, He's like not the
Speaker 2: most problematic, I mean, obviously still a conspiracy theorist, but
Speaker 2: like kind of like the token good conspiracy theorist. I
Speaker 2: don't know, but he defined predictive programming as the power
Speaker 2: of suggestion using the media of fiction to create a
Speaker 2: desired outcome. A more expansive definition that he gave is quote,
Speaker 2: predictive programming is a subtle form of psychological conditioning provided
Speaker 2: by the media to acquaint the public with planned societal
Speaker 2: changes to implemented by the elites. If and when these
Speaker 2: changes are put through, the public will already be familiarized
Speaker 2: with them and will accept them as natural progressions, thus
Speaker 2: lessening any possible public resistance and commotion. Predictive programming, therefore,
Speaker 2: may be considered a veiled form of preemptive mass manipulation
Speaker 2: or mind control courtesy of our puppet masters. So that's
Speaker 2: Alan Watt, that is, that is his definition. Like I said,
Speaker 2: he kind of came up with this idea in the
Speaker 2: early two thousands and it spread like wildfire throughout his
Speaker 2: competitors and his contemporaries in the conspiratorial milieu.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really recent. I thought I thought it was
Speaker 3: older than that. Yeah, No, it is a new one.
Speaker 4: It is.
Speaker 2: It is a relatively new conspiracy theory, like it doesn't.
Speaker 2: It doesn't go all the way back to like, well,
Speaker 2: some of like the rough ideas were kind of used
Speaker 2: by stuff, you know, going all the way back to
Speaker 2: the John Birch Society, But the actual term predictive programming
Speaker 2: and the modern understanding of that term are much more recent.
Speaker 2: An Ohio State University article on the topic said, quote,
Speaker 2: predictive programming, at its core is a tactic to reduce
Speaker 2: resistance by introducing concepts that seem far fetched and continuously
Speaker 2: reintroducing them to make these concepts appear more likely or
Speaker 2: at the very least acceptable. So that's more of like
Speaker 2: an outside in definition from from researchers. So let's let's
Speaker 2: go back to Alan Watch a little bit, because he's
Speaker 2: kind of been largely forgotten in the conspiratorial milieu, replaced
Speaker 2: by a whole bunch of more like bombastic and and
Speaker 2: troubling figures like Jones and Ike and many many smaller,
Speaker 2: smaller conspiracy theorists. But I listened to what I believe
Speaker 2: to be the first kind of broadcast where where he
Speaker 2: coined this idea. As opposed to Alex Jones, Alan Watt
Speaker 2: is like a very like calm speaker, like he's he's
Speaker 2: actually kind of just like pleasant to listen to because
Speaker 2: he's just so like like calm, methodical. He's not like bombastic.
Speaker 2: He just sounds like a regular, like chill guy. His
Speaker 2: his website is amazing. It looks like a nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: five website that has never been updated. It is, it
Speaker 2: is fantastic. I love that the website has stayed up
Speaker 2: after his death because it is just a joy to
Speaker 2: look at. But Alan Watt describes predictive programming as a
Speaker 2: quote unk quote ancient science. He thought that quote families
Speaker 2: of actors go back thousands of years. They're a specialized
Speaker 2: section of society that inter marries within their own ranks unquote.
Speaker 2: So like he thinks all actors come from like this
Speaker 2: one large like intergenerational family that have been that have
Speaker 2: been like in the profession of acting, which like is
Speaker 2: kind of true for like the Coppolas, but like, eh,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like, yes, there is a massive like
Speaker 2: inepotism problem, but like no, yeah, actors aren't like a
Speaker 2: single family that goes back like millennia. But that is
Speaker 2: that that is one of his beliefs he calls he
Speaker 2: calls producers magicians quote. They know what messages must be
Speaker 2: imprinted into the minds of the audience. They know the techniques,
Speaker 2: a perfect science unquote. He also talks about how Shakespeare
Speaker 2: was involved in predictive programming. Quote Shakespeare was the magician
Speaker 2: that brought the English language into being quote. So that
Speaker 2: like Shakespeare is like the person who developed like the
Speaker 2: modern the modern English language. Like obviously English like pre
Speaker 2: dates Shakespeare, but like he thinks that through Shakespeare's writing
Speaker 2: he was able to like popularize the modern form of English,
Speaker 2: which just isn't true, but it's a it's a it's
Speaker 2: a funny thing to believe. And he thinks all these
Speaker 2: people are like literal magicians, like like wizards, like you know,
Speaker 2: like like wands, pointy hats, Like they're all like doing
Speaker 2: actual like magic.
Speaker 3: This seems like such a roundabout way of doing this,
Speaker 3: Like you can just absolutely magic. So so true, so
Speaker 3: true via.
Speaker 2: So Alan Watt talks about that in the late sixties
Speaker 2: there was a big, weeks long international meeting to decide
Speaker 2: that Hollywood would be the place to create the culture
Speaker 2: of the future. He then discusses how like Hollywood controls
Speaker 2: people through like war movies, and how like the DoD
Speaker 2: helps Hollywood with equipment for war movies, but they have
Speaker 2: to approve the messaging, which like that has like a
Speaker 2: little grain of truth in there. Like yes, to use
Speaker 2: military equipment, you do need to get like approval from
Speaker 2: people in the government. And yeah, there is a form
Speaker 2: of Hollywood that is like just war propaganda. Like that,
Speaker 2: there's a kernel of truth here, but not exactly in
Speaker 2: the way Alan Watt talks about it. Do you know
Speaker 2: what else has a kernel of truth all of these ads?
Speaker 2: There's one single kernel in all of these ads that
Speaker 2: is revealing a divine truth of existence. So watch out
Speaker 2: and listen for this one kernel of truth. Okay, we
Speaker 2: are back to talk about Alan Watt and his predictive
Speaker 2: programming idea which has spread through the conspiratorial milieu like wildfire.
Speaker 2: So probably the funniest thing he gets to on this
Speaker 2: whole Hollywood as magician's rant is quote, if you look
Speaker 2: at the word Hollywood, it means holy wood, which of
Speaker 2: course is the staff of the Magi, the grand magas
Speaker 2: of the occult. He waives a wand and everything is changed.
Speaker 2: He casts a spell. So from so he thinks that
Speaker 2: Hollywood literally refers to like a magic wand like a
Speaker 2: holy a holy wood. He then he then also talks
Speaker 2: about Hollywood as like as like a grove, like like Hollywood,
Speaker 2: like the place is is is a grove quote similar
Speaker 2: to Jewish holy groves and folklore Moses's staff was placed
Speaker 2: in a grove and that was a special place for
Speaker 2: higher magi to meet unquote. And I don't think he
Speaker 2: means this anti semitically. It just kind of sounds anti Semitic,
Speaker 2: but he talks about and anyway, you can't even blame
Speaker 2: the us of this on those guys Canadian Scottish Canadian. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: literally me, literally me. I'll read one more Alan Watt
Speaker 2: quote here, which is just a banger. Hollywood is the
Speaker 2: magician's wand holy Holly, which has been used to cast
Speaker 2: a spell on the unsuspecting public. Things or ideas that
Speaker 2: would otherwise be seen as bizarre, vulgar, undesirable, or impossible
Speaker 2: are inserted into films in the realm of fantasy. When
Speaker 2: the viewer watches these films, his or her mind is
Speaker 2: left open to suggestion and the conditioning process begins. These
Speaker 2: same movies, which are designed to program the average person,
Speaker 2: can give the discerning viewer a better understanding of the
Speaker 2: workings and the plan of the world agenda unquote. So
Speaker 2: unlike a lot of modern conspiracy theorists who like refuse
Speaker 2: to watch movies because of predicting programming, Alan Watt thinks
Speaker 2: it's actually useful to watch movies because you can get
Speaker 2: like a future like glimpse of what is going to
Speaker 2: happen in the world, which is like a neat little
Speaker 2: difference compared to some of his modern contemporaries.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you can.
Speaker 6: You can watch Batman realize and occupy wall streets happening, yes,
Speaker 6: one year ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2: It's predictive programming in the past, in the past, Yeah, yeah, preemptive.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about some examples of predictive programming. Now,
Speaker 2: one thing that people often point to when discussing this
Speaker 2: is the television show The Simpsons.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: A writer and producer of The Simpsons from back in
Speaker 2: the nineties, Bill Oakley gave a statement to Reuters a
Speaker 2: few years ago about the concept of The Simpsons being able.
Speaker 3: To predict real world events. Quote. I would say, in general,
Speaker 3: when people.
Speaker 2: Say the Simpsons has predicted something, it's that we were
Speaker 2: really just satirizing real life events. From years before, and
Speaker 2: because history keeps repeating itself, it just seems like we're
Speaker 2: predicting things unquote, which I think is actually a really
Speaker 2: great observation. The show actually hasn't made very many predictions.
Speaker 2: It is often just satirizing actual events from around the
Speaker 2: time of the show's production, and lots of those events
Speaker 2: we've just now forgotten in the present, and similar events
Speaker 2: keep happening in the present, like viruses or Donald Trump
Speaker 2: running for president just like he did in the two thousands,
Speaker 2: So it's easy to kind of see these things as
Speaker 2: predictions when in fact we've just forgotten the events that
Speaker 2: they were originally satirizing. Now, many of the kind of
Speaker 2: viral quote unquote predictions you see online associated with The
Speaker 2: Simpsons actually just have a vastly different context within the show,
Speaker 2: and in many cases are actually just altered images fan art,
Speaker 2: photoshops or memes with mislabeled timestamps, or genuine images satirizing
Speaker 2: current events, making it appear as if the Simpsons version
Speaker 2: happened beforehand, when really it was like something satirizing an
Speaker 2: event a month ago, made to look like it was
Speaker 2: actually produced in like two thousand and seven or something, Right,
Speaker 2: so it's just a whole bunch of manipulated media. One
Speaker 2: instance of something that appears to bessive prediction but is
Speaker 2: actually just showing how the creators of the show pay
Speaker 2: attention to politics is the purple suit that President Lisa wears,
Speaker 2: bearing similarity to Kamala Harris's get up on an inauguration day,
Speaker 2: but purple was also worn by Michelle Obama and Hillary
Speaker 2: Clinton during previous inauguration days. It's the color of the
Speaker 2: saffagette movement, and it tends to symbolize unity between red
Speaker 2: and blue states. It's it's a very common thing that
Speaker 2: women wear at inauguration day, so like it's just a
Speaker 2: good guess. So there's a lot of stuff like that. Now,
Speaker 2: probably the most famous example of the Simpsons predictive power
Speaker 2: is probably the nine to eleven poster from the New
Speaker 2: York episode. Now, there is a wealth of eerie nine
Speaker 2: to eleven imagery from years before the attack, either associated
Speaker 2: with the date itself, destruction of the Twin Towers, or,
Speaker 2: in the case of the Simpsons, both Now, as for
Speaker 2: the others, nine to one one is just a common
Speaker 2: number in the US. So you see a pop up
Speaker 2: in a lot of Stuff, and the Twin Towers, as
Speaker 2: well as the Statue of Liberty, the Empire State, and
Speaker 2: the Chrysler Building are all often used in like host
Speaker 2: apocalyptic or like societal collapse destructive artwork. Of course, there
Speaker 2: was the bombing at the World Trade Center like a
Speaker 2: decade prior, and it's really easy now just to focus
Speaker 2: on instances of art depicting the Twin Towers.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: We have Michael Keaton's The Squeeze from nineteen eighty seven,
Speaker 2: Cookie Monster eating the Twin Towers in nineteen seventy six,
Speaker 2: the Towers disintegrating in the nineteen ninety three Mario movie,
Speaker 2: The Infamous Illuminati card game, the Coup's Party music album cover,
Speaker 2: and my personal favorite instance the pilot episode of the
Speaker 2: X Files A spin off show, The Lone Gunmen, in
Speaker 2: which members of the US government Deep State remotely hijack
Speaker 2: a commercial airliner to crash it into the World Trade
Speaker 2: Center to blame it on terrorists and start a new
Speaker 2: war in the Middle East. This episode aired six months
Speaker 2: before nine to eleven.
Speaker 3: It is the funniest thing. It's wild.
Speaker 2: It's like specifically being like an X Files a spinoff,
Speaker 2: It's it's just gold hilarious stuff and obviously for another
Speaker 2: predictive programming type thing. In the wake of COVID nineteen,
Speaker 2: many have pointed out that movies like Contagion or even
Speaker 2: zombie media are instances of predictive programming to get the
Speaker 2: public to accept a massive global pandemic, when in most
Speaker 2: cases it's actually just like scientists being like, hey, a
Speaker 2: pandemic could probably be a big problem, and then screenwriters
Speaker 2: being like, oh, let's write a movie about a pandemic, right,
Speaker 2: very very easy. Do you know what else contains very
Speaker 2: important subliminal messaging? Maya cars two, Well, the products and
Speaker 2: services that support this podcast. Listen to these to get
Speaker 2: a glimpse into the future. All right, we are back
Speaker 2: and we are joined by Robert Evans to give his
Speaker 2: thoughts on the predictive power of the Simpsons.
Speaker 1: Hello Robert, Hey, you know Garrison. Once upon a time,
Speaker 1: I watched a Simpsons episode where homewer Is sides not
Speaker 1: to go to church instead to stay asleep on Sunday
Speaker 1: all day, and that really kind of predicted me sleeping
Speaker 1: in this morning after getting in on a late night
Speaker 1: flight last night and missing the start of this recording.
Speaker 1: So the power of predictive programming simply cannot be denied.
Speaker 1: Because there's a scene in that where Homer closes his
Speaker 1: eyes and curls his toes and pulls his covers up
Speaker 1: over himself when he's avoiding church. That really predicted me
Speaker 1: at about eleven am this morning.
Speaker 3: Well that's great. Do you know who else is good
Speaker 3: at predictive programming? Batman?
Speaker 2: Okay, so we've already talked a little bit about some
Speaker 2: of the predictive programming conspiracies based on The Dark Knight
Speaker 2: Rises in the first segment of our Occupy Gotham City episode.
Speaker 2: You know how the Aurora, Colorado shooter was a modern
Speaker 2: MK Ultra victim program to distract from the software leaks
Speaker 2: that'll expose the corrupt elites because his father worked on
Speaker 2: predictive algorithms for the financial sector, just like the plot
Speaker 2: of The Dark Knight Rises. It's not the plot of
Speaker 2: The Darkness, not at all. But let's not forget that
Speaker 2: the movie also conditioned us to accept a major attack
Speaker 2: on a big sporting event, something which has also not
Speaker 2: really happened. So I'll actually be seeing Clyde Lewis again
Speaker 2: next week, so I will I will try to get
Speaker 2: his thoughts on his Dark Knight Rises failed predictions. We'll see,
Speaker 2: we'll see how We'll see how that goes for me.
Speaker 2: But those are not the only conspiracy theories around this movie.
Speaker 2: For the next one, we will turn to the King
Speaker 2: of the Lizard People, David Ike.
Speaker 1: Ah, there we go.
Speaker 2: He claims that when the GCPD are trying to track
Speaker 2: down the location of Bain's nuclear reactor, there's a shot
Speaker 2: of a map on which there's a location marked as
Speaker 2: Sandy Hook. And you'll never guess what happened after The
Speaker 2: Dark Knight came out.
Speaker 4: God, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7: So then.
Speaker 2: So yeah, Now I've looked into this a decent bit,
Speaker 2: because yes, there is there is a location on the
Speaker 2: map of Gotham City marked Sandy Hook. Now this is
Speaker 2: probably named after Sandy Hook, New Jersey, just south of
Speaker 2: New York City, as on the Batman map, it is
Speaker 2: an island that is just south of Gotham City. In
Speaker 2: the comics, it's called Tri Corner Island. For the specific
Speaker 2: map of Gotham they used is from like the nineteen nineties,
Speaker 2: and it's called Tri Corner Island. I think they renamed
Speaker 2: it to Sandy Hook in the Dark Knight rises, So
Speaker 2: a similar map in the movie was used for marketing
Speaker 2: materials that labeled Sandy Hook as a neighborhood in Gotham,
Speaker 2: and this map also contained a neighborhood called the Narrows,
Speaker 2: a common Gotham borough in Batman lore. The Sandy Hook
Speaker 2: shooting this led schools in Narrows, Virginia to delay their
Speaker 2: reternive students for winter break to install additional security precautions.
Speaker 2: And this was all based on a conspiracy article titled
Speaker 2: is Narrows the site of the next school massacred?
Speaker 8: Just?
Speaker 3: Of course it wasn't.
Speaker 1: But clear, folks, there are Sandy Hooks towns named Sandy
Speaker 1: Hooks in Connecticut, Indiana, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, and Missouri, Virginia, Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: Like it's it's there's a lot of them. We've made
Speaker 1: a lot of them. There's a lot of places that
Speaker 1: are sandy and look like a hook.
Speaker 3: And then the secondary problem with this is that we
Speaker 3: have school shootings in so many places that if you
Speaker 3: just have a map in any movie, there's like a
Speaker 3: one in twelve chance that there's going to be a
Speaker 3: shooting there. Now, so great, great society we've built.
Speaker 1: I do kind of wonder, is this something that we've
Speaker 1: like inoculated ourselves against by having so many school shootings,
Speaker 1: like because you could never Sandy Hook got so much
Speaker 1: attention because like we didn't have as many shootings back then,
Speaker 1: and it was so terrible, and like maybe now we
Speaker 1: move on to because it's like you're talking about elements
Speaker 1: of this, but like people obsessed are still obsessed over
Speaker 1: the Sandy Hook shooting today in a way that like
Speaker 1: I don't think most mass shooting victims have to deal with,
Speaker 1: like it becoming the center of this national mania campaign.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And many pointed out that this this Batman conspiracy
Speaker 2: theory is kind of incongruent with other Sandy Hook conspiracy theories,
Speaker 2: being like it's supposed to be a big shocking incident
Speaker 2: to get people to start to start like wanting gun
Speaker 2: control versus why would they try to warn us about it,
Speaker 2: about it happening if it was, if the point of
Speaker 2: it is to be shocking, like it doesn't quite make
Speaker 2: sense as most conspiracy theories do. But David Ike said,
Speaker 2: quote the dark Knight rises is classic Saturn symbolism, and
Speaker 2: Satanists worship Saturn, So there you go. Now, Curiously, do
Speaker 2: you know who else lives in Sandy Hook? Suzanne Collins,
Speaker 2: the author of The Hunger Games, which leads us to
Speaker 2: our next topic, the Hunger Games. I found this amazing
Speaker 2: blog called Through Ancient Eyes by this British guy named Neil,
Speaker 2: who's obsessed with the occult and is like a David
Speaker 2: Ike fanboy.
Speaker 3: This this blog is glorious.
Speaker 2: So I will I'll start by bye by reading the
Speaker 2: opening opening paragraph from this blog quote. Don't think for
Speaker 2: a minute that the script for the Hunger Games books
Speaker 2: is purely fiction. Here we have predictive programming at its finest.
Speaker 2: What I saw was the second part of a three
Speaker 2: part narrative that clearly plans ideas of acceptance, sacrifice, and
Speaker 2: revolution in the minds of youth. The books are awash
Speaker 2: with symbols and archetypes that seem to be classic programming devices,
Speaker 2: and more alarmingly, the books seem to project a very
Speaker 2: viable future for not only America but for the world.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, he's not entirely wrong. Because of all
Speaker 1: of the pieces of revolutionary literature and nonfiction of that
Speaker 1: have come out during our lifetimes, the Hunger Games has
Speaker 1: inspired a lot more revolutions.
Speaker 3: That's why this one is so fun.
Speaker 2: It's because, no, like twenty twenty was like a not
Speaker 2: insignificant part of twenty twenty was due to a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of kids growing up with The Hunger Games.
Speaker 1: No, no, I know people who are still fighting in
Speaker 1: the jungle. So in part because of.
Speaker 2: That book, Yes, exactly, So we will get into that
Speaker 2: in a bit.
Speaker 9: Now.
Speaker 2: Neil believes that the country of PanAm is quote clearly
Speaker 2: a reference to both Arcadia and the Greek god Pan unquote.
Speaker 1: It's an author who was up late at night looking
Speaker 1: for country names and remember it in an old airline,
Speaker 1: like that's what was going on.
Speaker 2: The region of Arcadia was home to pan and characterized
Speaker 2: by a vast wilderness with its lavish parties for the
Speaker 2: god of the wild and his nymphs.
Speaker 3: Quote.
Speaker 2: The Hunger Game's capital is an urban forest of the gods.
Speaker 2: In its classic symbolic reversal of the true meaning, it
Speaker 2: becomes a city dedicated to all that would be the
Speaker 2: opposite of true freedom unquote. Now Neil loves symbolic reversal.
Speaker 2: How you will see something depicted that is like, you know,
Speaker 2: like being against tutalitarian governments. This is actually symbolic reversal
Speaker 2: where it's actually pro authoritarian governments, because this is this
Speaker 2: is how he talks about the entire the entirety of
Speaker 2: of the movie and how it's actually trying to like
Speaker 2: seed acceptance for a one world order, a military police estate.
Speaker 2: Similar to David Ike, Neil also notes the Saturnian symbolism,
Speaker 2: with the goat imagery of the astral signed Capricorn linking
Speaker 2: to pan as well as the composite representation of the
Speaker 2: devil image Baphomet. Now I am I am not a
Speaker 2: planetary magic guy in general, but Saturn is often like
Speaker 2: linked to like the harvest, to destruction, chaos, it's, it's,
Speaker 2: it's a whole thing. But Neil says, quote both Capricorn
Speaker 2: and Aquarius are ruled by Saturn and it's hidden vibrationality
Speaker 2: effect on the powers that be banking, law, education. Therefore,
Speaker 2: PanAm is the ultimate Saturn city of the future. PanAm
Speaker 2: is very much the typical totalitarian future Nazia Lake City.
Speaker 2: It is also where that links to pandemonium in the
Speaker 2: form of a pandemic is the hunger games, preparing the
Speaker 2: youth of today for some kind of tyrannical future born
Speaker 2: out of the events of the next decade that will
Speaker 2: lead to global pandemonium, which is unfortunately a pretty good
Speaker 2: prediction coming from like, coming from like the early twenty tens. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they kind of were talking about a pandemic that leads
Speaker 2: to global unrest, repelling against a tyrannical future. So pretty
Speaker 2: good analysis by Neil there.
Speaker 10: Now.
Speaker 2: Neil also notes, you know, curious linkages between the segregated
Speaker 2: twelve districts of PanAm, just as our perception of time
Speaker 2: is governed by twelve hours and months.
Speaker 10: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: He breaks down PanAm even further, claiming that the letter
Speaker 2: E and the letter M or like numerology references the
Speaker 2: E linking to the Intel and Saturn like explorer logos,
Speaker 2: and Neil says, quote, according to some researchers, which is
Speaker 2: a great way to start a sentence. According to some researchers,
Speaker 2: the letter E is a very important letter number because
Speaker 2: it represents the fifth essence or element, the power of transcendence.
Speaker 3: No, we did, as the Jermatria starnage.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely. He goes all out on the
Speaker 2: letter M. The letter m's a very important letter in
Speaker 2: the mystery schools of antiquity, uh huh, being the numerology
Speaker 2: equivalent of thirteen. This of course relates to the thirteen
Speaker 2: original districts or the twelve secretors around the one capital.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah sure, there are of course twelve jurors and
Speaker 2: one judge. The m or the thirteenth letter is the
Speaker 2: master with twelve disciples, and esoterically speaking, thirteen is the
Speaker 2: experiencer of the twelve signs of the zodiac. There are
Speaker 2: twelve months in the Gregorian sun calendar and thirteen months
Speaker 2: in the lunar calendar. There were thirteen districts, but now
Speaker 2: only twelve remain. There's there were thirteen colonies. The US
Speaker 2: is Satanism, So true, so true.
Speaker 3: Mia.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of talk about how like kids can't
Speaker 1: read anymore because how we fucked up like reading education,
Speaker 1: you know, around like the early aughts and shit, and
Speaker 1: like some the damage that that's done. But this is
Speaker 1: showing that, Like you've got a bunch of boomers who
Speaker 1: are going through these books, who are reading them very carefully,
Speaker 1: who are googling every word in them to see if
Speaker 1: there's different things. Yeah, and they catch all of this,
Speaker 1: like put all this weird maniaction together. But they don't
Speaker 1: just get that, Like, yeah, if you tell kids a
Speaker 1: simple story about another young person overthrowing a tyrannical government,
Speaker 1: maybe they'll burn down their capital building. Absolutely, it's happened before,
Speaker 1: and it'll happen again.
Speaker 2: Neil gets obsessed with all these little, tiny, tiny rabbit
Speaker 2: holes that are ultimately meaningless and like misses the very glaring,
Speaker 2: obvious thing right before his eyes. He says, numbers and
Speaker 2: letters are vibrational codes that affect the subconscious. The more
Speaker 2: I look at Saturn symbolism, the more I see a
Speaker 2: thought form, waveform or a vibrational pattern that permeates the
Speaker 2: collective thinking of humanity.
Speaker 1: Now you miss the obvious and more like there's all
Speaker 1: this obsession with like numerology, and it's like, well no.
Speaker 1: A big part of why the Hunger Games caught on
Speaker 1: to people and was like so easy to like meme
Speaker 1: and spread as part of these revolutionary actions is they
Speaker 1: had like a thing, a hand thing that you did.
Speaker 1: They had a little salute and like kids could do
Speaker 1: it to each other.
Speaker 3: It's the shit. It was not a fan of the salute.
Speaker 3: By the way.
Speaker 1: Well that's good. I'm sure he's got some fascinating opinions
Speaker 1: on that shit.
Speaker 2: Oh, he sure does, and we will hear his extremely
Speaker 2: fascinating opinions on the three finger Salute as well as
Speaker 2: other Hunger Games conspiracies and new upcoming predictive programming conspiracies
Speaker 2: based around the Civil War movie in the next episode.
Speaker 2: So stay tuned tomorrow for even more exciting news on
Speaker 2: how you can predict the future by watching movies. See
Speaker 2: you tomorrow, Welcome back to it could happen here. I'm
Speaker 2: Garrison Davis. I'm joined by Mia and Robert to discuss
Speaker 2: predictive programming. So last episode we talked about the origin
Speaker 2: of this conspiracy theory, how this Canadian Scottish conspiracy theorist
Speaker 2: named Alan Watt came up with this idea that through
Speaker 2: Hollywood movies, TV books, video games, the secret couple of
Speaker 2: shadowy governments is trying to subliminally prepare us to accept
Speaker 2: planned events as they take place in the future by
Speaker 2: putting little hints, shadows, and seeds into our everyday entertainment diet.
Speaker 2: One of the oldest examples that conspiracy theorists will point
Speaker 2: to you as an example of predictive programming is this
Speaker 2: book from the late eighteen hundreds called Futility that talks
Speaker 2: about a fictional ship called the titan which was thought
Speaker 2: to be completely unsinkable, which eventually crashed on an iceberg
Speaker 2: and sank. This obviously it mirrors what happened to the
Speaker 2: Titanic in the decades to follow. So yeah, what are
Speaker 2: we talking about this sort of stuff? Last episode ended
Speaker 2: in our discussion of the Hunger Games, I found this
Speaker 2: old conspiracy blog by this British guy named Neil where
Speaker 2: he talks about all of his theories surrounding the Hunger Games,
Speaker 2: books and movies. So we will return to hear Neil's
Speaker 2: thoughts on the predictive programming implanted into the Hunger Games.
Speaker 2: Neil also has fascinating opinions on trains. He really doesn't
Speaker 2: like that in the Hunger Adams there is a big
Speaker 2: like like train system which he links to like the
Speaker 2: which he links to the European Union's future train plan
Speaker 2: as well as as well as like high speed rail
Speaker 2: plans for North America, which he is very against because
Speaker 2: do you know who else used trains?
Speaker 1: Was it the Nazis?
Speaker 3: Garrison the Nazis?
Speaker 1: Is it the Nazis?
Speaker 3: It's the Nazis, you know?
Speaker 6: You can tell this is an older conspiracy because they
Speaker 6: because they're actually using the Nazis as the people who
Speaker 6: use trains and not like the Soviet Union.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think Neil just really likes driving and he thinks
Speaker 2: that driving is like the epitome of freedom. So he
Speaker 2: talks about how like trains are trying to control which
Speaker 2: areas of the country you can go to instead of
Speaker 2: the freedom of the open road.
Speaker 1: I got stuck behind a train and traffic on my
Speaker 1: way to the airport, very frustrated to make me late
Speaker 1: to this call. So I actually I think he's right.
Speaker 1: I'm on board now.
Speaker 2: He also rants about this this this nineteen ninety two
Speaker 2: UN plan called Agenda twenty one about like a big
Speaker 2: environmental management plan with highly condensed humor human settlement zones.
Speaker 2: This is something that both John Birch and Glenn Beck
Speaker 2: were also like, really.
Speaker 1: Alex Jones is huge one. This was the entire conspiracy
Speaker 1: ecosystem for about fifteen years. Couldn't shut the fuck up outage.
Speaker 1: Some of them still go on about it.
Speaker 2: So Neil's upset because that looks similar to like the
Speaker 2: PanAm map of like because PanAm is in like a
Speaker 2: post climate collapse. We have these very condensed areas of
Speaker 2: settlement and like a vast like unusable land mass in America.
Speaker 2: So he has he has this whole thing about that
Speaker 2: he he doesn't like that President Snow looks like the
Speaker 2: Saturnian figure of Cronos, the father of time, who devours children,
Speaker 2: just like just like how President Snow sacrifices children to
Speaker 2: maintain like societal control of PanAm in the Hunger Games.
Speaker 1: You know, let him see my bed, my bathroom. That'll
Speaker 1: uh yeah, really good. In the center of some I
Speaker 1: have a giant copy of the Saturn and Eating his
Speaker 1: Son painting that's like right next to my toilet. It's
Speaker 1: great painting. Also not necessarily about that. They just found
Speaker 1: a painting of a guy eating a guy, and we're like,
Speaker 1: it's probably Saturn that this guy was trying to bait.
Speaker 2: That is the research quality that Neil also does. He's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's probably all these things.
Speaker 1: Seems like it's Saturn. Yeah, it seems like it's Saturn. Yeah,
Speaker 1: kind of uncomfortable to imagine it's anyone else.
Speaker 2: Neil also compares the Hunger Games to China's one child
Speaker 2: policy and the population reduction conspiracy.
Speaker 3: Theories of Agenda twenty one.
Speaker 2: Just like in the Hunger Games, it's about having children
Speaker 2: kill each other, just like the one child policy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's how China does their one child policy.
Speaker 1: Other children are told to kill children.
Speaker 2: Family back on the revolutionary tract quote. I can't confirm
Speaker 2: that Susan Collins used the archetype of Artemis for her
Speaker 2: character of Catnus, but what can be observed is how
Speaker 2: this female role model is a symbol for revolution, a
Speaker 2: new order, and more importantly, a new world system. This
Speaker 2: is clear the blueprint for a new America. So part
Speaker 2: of this blueprint that he talks about is like implanted
Speaker 2: microchips and a brutal police state that arrests and kills protesters,
Speaker 2: unlike our current police state, which would never arrest or
Speaker 2: kill a protester.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and everyone just carries microchips around.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, now more more devious than the murder happy police.
Speaker 2: Neil finds the bird symbolism to be including Catnus's dress,
Speaker 2: which transforms into the mocking jay symbol, which, according to Neil,
Speaker 2: looks quote remarkably like a Benu bird of Egypt, as
Speaker 2: well as a phoenix, especially when encircled in fire quote.
Speaker 2: The phoenix is a classic mystery school symbol that relates
Speaker 2: to the unseen forces that transforms the world. Both Catnus
Speaker 2: and Pete's costumes set a fire as they enter the
Speaker 2: arena before the tournament, with Catnus becoming the bird on fire.
Speaker 2: She's the embodiment of the coming transformation, the beginning and
Speaker 2: the end. Catnus and Peda are symbols of Artemis and Apollo,
Speaker 2: the twins and children of the New World Order of Gods.
Speaker 2: Smokeless fire is also a major symbol used by the
Speaker 2: Illuminati and is their vehicle to communicate with the Arkans.
Speaker 2: He never goes into further detail of a.
Speaker 1: Yes, smokeless powder is what made war possible, so you
Speaker 1: know there's other things. It's not just the Illuminati. We
Speaker 1: use it for fireworks too.
Speaker 2: Catnus is the woman closed in fire sun in the
Speaker 2: Book of Revelation and the EU, the United Nations and
Speaker 2: the Security Council replicate the symbolism a phoenix rising out
Speaker 2: of the tyranny and war.
Speaker 3: It's all reversed.
Speaker 2: Symbolism, of course, because these bodies are set to administer
Speaker 2: the world Army, police and the future New World Order unquote.
Speaker 2: Though he's there complaining about a United Nations mural that
Speaker 2: was made after World War Two about a phoenix of
Speaker 2: peace rising from the ashes of war, and houses actually
Speaker 2: reversed symbolism because they're actually going to be, you know,
Speaker 2: laying out this global, one world government calling at peace.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: He also talks more about the Book of Revelation and
Speaker 2: how twelve and thirteen combined and the unification of the
Speaker 2: new World just like in the Bible, and then finally
Speaker 2: to get to that three that three finger salute quote.
Speaker 2: It's interesting when you dig a little deeper and find
Speaker 2: that Catnus's salute is reminiscent of a certain Nazi youth
Speaker 2: salutes found in Eastern Europe in the late nineteen thirties.
Speaker 3: He's and he's.
Speaker 2: Also quite concerned by the new adoption of the salute
Speaker 2: by the Girl Scouts, despite the three finger salute being
Speaker 2: used in Scout organizations for over a century.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like the boy Scouts have a lot are sinister,
Speaker 1: but not because of the salute, now is the least
Speaker 1: of the problem was a brief moment of reprieve for
Speaker 1: a lot of those boys getting to do a salute.
Speaker 2: And then he also says, quote it's no surprise that
Speaker 2: the mocking jpin also looks similar to a Nazi gunner badge, because,
Speaker 2: as I've all shown, the bird is the symbol for
Speaker 2: the power of revolution, a new order that goes all
Speaker 2: the way back to the Holy Roman Empire.
Speaker 1: And these are the guys will be like, look at
Speaker 1: the mocking Jay symbol. It's similar to Then they'll see
Speaker 1: like a Scout sniper flag that looks like the SS
Speaker 1: logo and go, well, there's clearly nothing related to that.
Speaker 2: And then we will we will close this section by
Speaker 2: by continuing on the revolutionary elements. Quote what kind of
Speaker 2: revolution does Catnus symbolize? Are the youth of today being
Speaker 2: readied for another revolution followed by another dictatorship? How many
Speaker 2: more celebrities are we going to see being used as
Speaker 2: a mouthpiece for revolution. I am all for peaceful revolution
Speaker 2: based on respect and love, but the movies never portray
Speaker 2: that kind of revolution. A peaceful revolution is one inspired
Speaker 2: by the inner world of imagination and not necessarily the
Speaker 2: outer world of this five sensus. The type of revolution
Speaker 2: that the elite would want us to unfold here would
Speaker 2: be one born of pandemonium. The illuminati, in those who
Speaker 2: control of the current global empire in the making, love
Speaker 2: to hide their agenda in planes, within commercial so called
Speaker 2: fictitious movies, and in the media industry in general. The
Speaker 2: Hunger Games is the script for the totalitarian, elite ruled
Speaker 2: brutal police state. The agenda's repeatedly being laid out in
Speaker 2: front of our very eyes, both in real everyday life
Speaker 2: and in things we choose to expose ourselves within the
Speaker 2: so called entertainment industry.
Speaker 3: This is one of these things where all of these
Speaker 3: conspiracy theories center around the fact that people, for reasons
Speaker 3: that are incomprehensible to be believed that the thing the
Speaker 3: US government wants you to do is shoot guns at them.
Speaker 3: Yes right, No, no, they don't. I guarantee they don't
Speaker 3: want you to shoot machine guns out there.
Speaker 1: They would like you to spend money and go to work.
Speaker 1: That's the primary thing the US government wants you to do.
Speaker 1: Pay your taxes without too much fuss.
Speaker 3: Do you know what else the US government wants you
Speaker 3: to do, Robert, I.
Speaker 1: Know a number of things the US government wants me
Speaker 1: to do, Garrison, but I won't. I will not stop
Speaker 1: telling people to take colloidal silver for all of their
Speaker 1: health care problems. The only way to really carry out
Speaker 1: the revolution starts with putting silver in your body.
Speaker 3: All right, we are back.
Speaker 2: I've actually always wanted to do the topical silver and
Speaker 2: get that like blue skin.
Speaker 3: I thought that'd be kind of cool.
Speaker 1: You have to do a lot of it, cares.
Speaker 3: I'm well aware, like we can achieve this with body paint.
Speaker 1: I do find it very funny that they're so obsessed
Speaker 1: with like the Hunger Games as this like this is
Speaker 1: the elite showing you how they're going to crack down
Speaker 1: on all of us, and then when it actually when
Speaker 1: the Hunger Games inspires an actual revolution, it's like the
Speaker 1: one that gets no support from any like Spook agency
Speaker 1: and the only one. There's no CIA, no FSB, fucking nothing,
Speaker 1: like it's just a bunch of teenagers and their books
Speaker 1: and three D printers.
Speaker 2: I mean, And like looking back at at that Hunger
Speaker 2: Game section, it's always interesting how people like this they're
Speaker 2: like in the real world, very like probe police in
Speaker 2: a lot of cases, but then also being like they're
Speaker 2: trying to instill a police state. Right, it's get to
Speaker 2: they get to eat their cake. And have it too,
Speaker 2: where they are both pro law enforcement but also anti
Speaker 2: this like imagined evil version of law enforcement that's always
Speaker 2: like right on the cusp of being introduced.
Speaker 1: There's a through line there, which is that they are
Speaker 1: anti whatever it seems like people are telling them. Is like, obviously, okay,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's oppositional, definant. It's the same reason why,
Speaker 1: like you think that you're on You're living in a
Speaker 1: normal earth, so it's got to be a hollow earth, right,
Speaker 1: Like it's this if something is popular, if a movie's popular,
Speaker 1: it can't just be a movie that people liked. And
Speaker 1: if it's like, you know, I saw a Hunger Game,
Speaker 1: the first Hunger Games movie, and I tried to read
Speaker 1: the books, and I was like, nah, I can't read
Speaker 1: these you know, they're not they were not written for me.
Speaker 1: Like it's it's just I was not interested in them.
Speaker 1: And that's all I really thought about it. But like
Speaker 1: certain people, if they see something popular and they don't
Speaker 1: immediately fall in love with it, they have to come
Speaker 1: up with some reason why it's sinister, and it's the
Speaker 1: same thing that leads them to reject everything else, right that,
Speaker 1: Like if other people like something and I don't get it,
Speaker 1: or I feel weird, I don't understand it, then it
Speaker 1: has to be a fucking conspiracy like that used to
Speaker 1: be one percent of this country, and through social media
Speaker 1: it's become like half of us. Because it's a deeply
Speaker 1: addictive way to feel.
Speaker 2: I think the most sinister thing about the new Hunger
Speaker 2: Games is that they did not put nearly enough Hunter
Speaker 2: Shaver in that movie.
Speaker 1: So let's know who that is.
Speaker 3: Let's continue to the last time.
Speaker 1: That's got to be predictive Hunter Shaver. So they're wanted. Okay,
Speaker 1: So this is like very clearly, well, no, I could
Speaker 1: go into like I could go into like they're trying
Speaker 1: to make the kids trans right, they wanted to like
Speaker 1: hunt down their parents, shaved right in shape, you know.
Speaker 4: On Earth.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm saying you could eat turned it into a
Speaker 1: conspiracy theory, Garrison, you could make it work.
Speaker 2: So last thing we are to talk about the new
Speaker 2: hit movie Leave the World Behind.
Speaker 3: A Garrison made me watch this. I'm never gonna forgive
Speaker 3: them for it.
Speaker 2: One of it is it is one of the most
Speaker 2: recent examples of a movie sparking predictive programming conspiracies. It's
Speaker 2: by the creator of mister Robot, which retroactively makes mister
Speaker 2: Robot much worse.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: There is a few reasons why this movie has caused
Speaker 2: so much uproar, a major factor being that it's produced
Speaker 2: by the Obamas, as in the presidents very responsible. There is,
Speaker 2: there is, there's Havana syndrome references discussion of an evil
Speaker 2: cabal that runs the world, plans to collapse the United States,
Speaker 2: and the two child leads wear t shirts that read
Speaker 2: obey and NASA, respectively, which has been the cause of
Speaker 2: a lot of discourse.
Speaker 8: Obey NASA, Yeah.
Speaker 3: The Left's long term plan.
Speaker 4: Book.
Speaker 1: Several of the letters in NASA are also in Stalin.
Speaker 1: Are you gonna tell me that's a coincidence?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Probably, I will, I will now. I will now share this,
Speaker 2: share this clip from Steve Bannon, who had a Dutch
Speaker 2: far right e girl on his show to discuss the movie.
Speaker 1: Oh he's doing good, then, so he's doing good.
Speaker 4: That's good.
Speaker 1: I was worried about Steve.
Speaker 11: Okay, so we see a movie here now that is
Speaker 11: co produced by the Obama's about the potential potential cyber
Speaker 11: attack which causes mayhem, obviously, and I saw it, and
Speaker 11: it reminded me an awful lot of the narrative portrayed
Speaker 11: in a video published about two years.
Speaker 12: Ago by the World Economic Forum.
Speaker 11: And this was a video in which they supposedly warned
Speaker 11: us for a cyber pandemic.
Speaker 12: Interesting choice of words there.
Speaker 11: And they detail what could happen if we are under
Speaker 11: a cyber attack, and that the only way that we
Speaker 11: could solve and attack like that would be to disconnect
Speaker 11: everything and everyone completely from the Internet. So I figured,
Speaker 11: this seems to me like a classic case of predictive
Speaker 11: programming where not just the World Economic Forum, but now
Speaker 11: also through movies and you know, fictional stories, they are
Speaker 11: trying to prepare the public to the idea of cyber
Speaker 11: attacks and the potential chaos that could come with that.
Speaker 2: So that is that is her her big problems with
Speaker 2: the movie, which we'll see we'll see echoed in a
Speaker 2: lot of the people we talk about here with the
Speaker 2: World Economic Forums warning about a big cyber attack. She
Speaker 2: then went on to rant about the movies anti white sentiments,
Speaker 2: probably from the Obama's involvement.
Speaker 3: Clearly, yeah, she has.
Speaker 2: She has almost a million followers followers on Twitter. Is
Speaker 2: wild also because she's Dutch. Her last name is and
Speaker 2: I shit you not. Vlardinger broke so great great stuff
Speaker 2: happening in the Dutch.
Speaker 1: Wh Yeah, what is that predicting.
Speaker 2: For a summary of the movie, all at this conspiracy theory,
Speaker 2: TikTok explain the basic themes that we'll be discussing here.
Speaker 9: Essentially, the movie is about the downfall of civilization and
Speaker 9: how it's done in three steps. First step being that
Speaker 9: the government is going to be toppled from within, the
Speaker 9: next one that it's going to be littered with disinformation
Speaker 9: and misinformation to confuse the masses and to create chaos.
Speaker 9: The third step, if the first and second step are
Speaker 9: done correctly, is going to cause basically a civil war,
Speaker 9: causing the paranoid and problematic to start turning on each other.
Speaker 9: The Little Girl is obsessed with the last episode of
Speaker 9: Friends called How It Ends, which is interesting because the
Speaker 9: star of the movie, Julia Roberts, also dated Matthew Perry
Speaker 9: way way back, Matthew Perry, who also passed away earlier
Speaker 9: this year. The movie also references like billionaires and their bunkers,
Speaker 9: and it references the Cabal on way more than one occasion.
Speaker 9: The heart of it is that the Cabal has fallen,
Speaker 9: and so nobody is in charge, and this is what's
Speaker 9: leading to the fall of the United States of America. Essentially,
Speaker 9: it has a very predictive programming feel to it. And
Speaker 9: I mean with the Obamas and the constant references to water.
Speaker 9: Planes crash in the water and a boat called the
Speaker 9: White Lion runs up on shore from the ocean. Everybody
Speaker 9: wants water. They're constantly drinking water. Here's some water. You
Speaker 9: want some water? Didn't the Obama chef just drowned. I
Speaker 9: can't watch anything anymore. I can't enjoy Summon Up. The
Speaker 9: entire movie itself doesn't even have a plot. There's no
Speaker 9: real storyline to this movie, and the ending is awful.
Speaker 9: If I if I were not paying attention like I am,
Speaker 9: I would think the movie would be terrible. There's no resolution,
Speaker 9: there's no real start. It just seems like it's just here,
Speaker 9: just here, it's just telling you. And one more thing.
Speaker 9: It talks about microwave e MP.
Speaker 3: Like, okay, that's that's that's.
Speaker 1: That their brains are so melted that like they can't
Speaker 1: see a movie made in the image of all of
Speaker 1: their fears is made in the image of all their fears.
Speaker 1: Like the whole it's so sunsettling. It doesn't even start properly,
Speaker 1: it's just it just begins just in it. Like, man,
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of how a movie goes.
Speaker 2: I like how she talks about She like she like
Speaker 2: can't enjoy movies anymore, which is like the end result
Speaker 2: of all these all these conspiracy theorists, Like they just
Speaker 2: they just can't enjoy life because they see everything as
Speaker 2: this series of like interconnected incidents leading to some kind
Speaker 2: of grand narrative that makes it impossible to like actually
Speaker 2: like be happy, which is probably the funniest thing. Also
Speaker 2: that she thinks the movie predicted the death of the
Speaker 2: Obama's chef, which I don't don't even know if that's real.
Speaker 1: If you're one of these people, that's the most significant
Speaker 1: thing that's happened the last eighteen months. The Obama chef
Speaker 1: and Matthew Perry are like the Rosetta Stone for everything
Speaker 1: that's wrong in society, and not just two people who died,
Speaker 1: because it's a year.
Speaker 2: Because Matthew Perry used to date Jessica Roberts, who's the
Speaker 2: star of the movie, of course, and there's friends references
Speaker 2: all throughout the film so it's all connected.
Speaker 1: Subtle friends' references in very subtleind you miss him if
Speaker 1: you don't pay attention.
Speaker 2: So the the last conspiracy theorist I want to talk
Speaker 2: about is this is this like metaphysical influencer named Tristan
Speaker 2: Haggard who spends most of his time on stream selling
Speaker 2: hormone supplements for men so that they could boost their
Speaker 2: testosterone and stop being soy boys. While discussing various conspiracies.
Speaker 1: Love it, he.
Speaker 2: Says, quote cyber attacks, bio warfare, weaponized limes disease, lone
Speaker 2: star tick, chronic wasting disease, things that get you to
Speaker 2: stop eating meat. These things, these types of these types
Speaker 2: of programs are seated throughout the film. I feel like
Speaker 2: the tick bite and a lot of that stuff might
Speaker 2: have been a little bit of that DARPA extracurricular script editions.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, unquote.
Speaker 1: Yeah sure, yeah, of course. The fact that a kid
Speaker 1: gets bit by a tick and gets all fucked up
Speaker 1: is like trying to stop you from eating are.
Speaker 3: Trying to stop you from eating meat? Quote.
Speaker 2: I feel like the average normy might not put together
Speaker 2: the limes disease possible by weapon connection unquote. Amazing yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't think the average an army might might not
Speaker 2: put that one together.
Speaker 9: You know.
Speaker 1: That does suggest to me that all these people are
Speaker 1: gonna die in thirty seconds if there's any real kind
Speaker 1: of unrest because their attitude towards the idea of disease
Speaker 1: is that was planted by the New World Order. Yeah,
Speaker 1: people won't get sick now.
Speaker 2: These two guys on this stream also said that they
Speaker 2: had to stop watching Mister Robot in the third season
Speaker 2: because there were too many quote unquote gay scenes, which
Speaker 2: is really funny.
Speaker 1: I had to stop watching it in this first season
Speaker 1: because I don't like Remy Mallick. But you know, see
Speaker 1: I was are built different I had.
Speaker 2: I had to keep watching just for Christians later, but
Speaker 2: that's just me.
Speaker 1: He did make it hard to quit.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So most of the time, these two guys on
Speaker 2: their conspiracy podcast just complain about how Ethan Hawk is
Speaker 2: a weak little soy boy and all of the and
Speaker 2: and and and all and all of the quote unquote
Speaker 2: by POC people were more like put together and more commanding,
Speaker 2: they constantly say BYEPAK, which is an interesting choice from
Speaker 2: that that.
Speaker 1: Is really fascinating, especially since Mahershall Ali's daughter isn't really
Speaker 1: a character in that movie, Marshall law Ali is okay
Speaker 1: because he's he's a great, great actor. But like, it's
Speaker 1: not like, it's not like all of the characters who
Speaker 1: aren't white or like written stirringly. Well, most of the
Speaker 1: characters of this movie are written like dog shits things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Tristan here says, quote, there's so much predictive
Speaker 2: programming and social engineering of how the mechanics of possible
Speaker 2: collapse of the power grid, collapse and the communications would
Speaker 2: result in basically chaos. And then I have I have
Speaker 2: this little clip here of him talking talking about the
Speaker 2: big cyber attack right now.
Speaker 13: A lot of people are saying, oh, this is predictive
Speaker 13: program They're going to do this cyber attack. And you know,
Speaker 13: we've been talking about this type of stuff for years,
Speaker 13: right with the cyber polygon on exercises and the World
Speaker 13: Economic Forum, and you're working with defense contractors in military intelligence, whatnot,
Speaker 13: working on the possible scenario of a cyber attack. Right
Speaker 13: the cyber attack is one of these scenarios that they're saying,
Speaker 13: it's got to happen, it's coming, the big cyber attacks coming.
Speaker 13: But I feel like films like this, The intention could
Speaker 13: be to make people so afraid of just the mere
Speaker 13: possibility of a total collapse like.
Speaker 2: This, so they obviously sound like they know what they're
Speaker 2: talking about there. That's very very very polished. Now Tristan
Speaker 2: thinks that he has a better idea to kind of
Speaker 2: seed collapse.
Speaker 3: Quote.
Speaker 2: A better way to implement this would be to not
Speaker 2: really roll out a huge wide scale power outages and
Speaker 2: communications outages, but make it up protracted, small and localized
Speaker 2: so that you can still maintain a certain level of
Speaker 2: propagand and control, and then create enough fear to where
Speaker 2: people will accept the mandatory digital ID for the Internet
Speaker 2: and the Central Bank digital currencies and whatnot. It's like
Speaker 2: a limited type of thing, a regional type of thing
Speaker 2: that then is hyped up to be the worst thing ever.
Speaker 3: Unquote.
Speaker 2: These guys are really like talking about this mandatory digital
Speaker 2: ID and the Central Bank digital currencies as being this
Speaker 2: big threat and there's going to just be any day
Speaker 2: this this this cyber attack which is gonna which is
Speaker 2: going to force us to all adopt this this uh,
Speaker 2: this digital ID to be able to sign into the internet. Quote,
Speaker 2: all you have to do is have most of the
Speaker 2: normal people afraid enough of the possible scenario and tease it.
Speaker 2: It's almost like a cyber attack brinksmanship type of thing unquote,
Speaker 2: so they think that, you know, you don't actually need
Speaker 2: to have the cyber attack, you just need to have
Speaker 2: people afraid enough that it could happen by by talking
Speaker 2: about it in media, film, TV, you know, all all this.
Speaker 3: Sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: You can't even get people to like change their past words.
Speaker 2: Like it's so funny because like the past few months,
Speaker 2: there actually has been a decent number of.
Speaker 3: Cyber attacks constantly, yes, which.
Speaker 2: Are yeah, like a very like a constant influx, which
Speaker 2: are all just being constantly handled, and it's it's not
Speaker 2: led to any of these massive apocalyptic scenarios that they're
Speaker 2: talking about.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, like the movie has. Part of how
Speaker 1: the movie has to make this, like has to make it,
Speaker 1: Like why the movie is set in the middle of nowhere,
Speaker 1: is that if it's set in a city and the
Speaker 1: internet goes out, the way people would actually respond would
Speaker 1: be like the way they respond when there's just some
Speaker 1: sort of random outage. Initially like like uh, oh shit,
Speaker 1: my phone doesn't work right now, I guess I've got
Speaker 1: to figure something else out for a second. Like it's
Speaker 1: it's easier to have it seem disconnected and like completely
Speaker 1: disorienting when you have everybody like out in the middle
Speaker 1: of nowhere without other people around to make shit makes sense.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna play Well, what one more clip from from
Speaker 2: Tristan's livestream here.
Speaker 14: I feel like also, I mean, they haven't they have
Speaker 14: been building all of this technocracy stuff to throw it away, right,
Speaker 14: They've been building it to implement it. So if there
Speaker 14: was an outage or the cyber attack or whatever, this
Speaker 14: would be some temporary, limited thing, you know, hyped up
Speaker 14: into oblivion and oh it was all the Trump Maga people,
Speaker 14: or it was all the Christians that did it to
Speaker 14: go working with Russia, Right, That's what they're gonna say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally. They're gonna blame the big cyber attack
Speaker 2: on the Trump Christians. That's gonna be who's gonna who's
Speaker 2: gonna launch the big attack?
Speaker 8: Totally absolutely to everyone will assume knew how to do
Speaker 8: a hack is the Trumpers. Yeah, first we taught them
Speaker 8: how to change the settings on their smart TV, and
Speaker 8: now they've hacked the planet.
Speaker 2: What do you do as soon as you turn off
Speaker 2: motion smoothing, then you're ready to go. They're gonna hack
Speaker 2: the system, get in, shut everything down. Oh so this
Speaker 2: Tristan guy was getting like hundreds of dollars in super
Speaker 2: chats on this stream. He's he's verified on YouTube, he
Speaker 2: has over one hundred thousand subscribers, and he is one
Speaker 2: of the has some of the like not not very
Speaker 2: hidden anti semitism, but like, I am kind of surprised
Speaker 2: that he's able to say as much as he is
Speaker 2: while still being verified and getting all this money, because
Speaker 2: he has this line towards the end of his of
Speaker 2: his stream quote, the little girl is inside the house
Speaker 2: with the bunker that everyone else was trying to go to,
Speaker 2: and she's sitting at the table surrounded by like goy slop.
Speaker 2: She's just got all the freaking kibbl foods like Funians
Speaker 2: and doritos. She's having a feast of gluttony. It's all
Speaker 2: freaking globo homo kibble, fruity pebbles and stuff. She's just
Speaker 2: gluttonously consuming a bunch of you know, trash processed foods.
Speaker 2: She's just all alone, just looking kind of autistic. Unquote
Speaker 2: what the fuck? So, yeah, he's just talking about like
Speaker 2: goy slop, like there's like the like, like the Jews
Speaker 2: are creating junk food to pacify.
Speaker 1: I want you to eat worms and stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So that is most of most of his
Speaker 2: interesting opinions. I'll leave the world behind at a pretty
Speaker 2: bad movie.
Speaker 1: A pretty bad movie. You know, there is one real
Speaker 1: conspiracy theory about it, and it has nothing to do
Speaker 1: with the Obamas or predictive programming. We see a character
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the movie, a survivalist, prepping to
Speaker 1: take care of his family even though no one knows
Speaker 1: a disastro is coming, and later knew. The end of
Speaker 1: the movie, when Ethan Hawk's son is sick, we meet
Speaker 1: the survivalist again. It turns out he's a handyman who
Speaker 1: lives in the edge of town, and he's played by
Speaker 1: Kevin Bacon now Garrison. In the classic film Trimmers, Kevin
Speaker 1: Bacon plays a handyman character who with his friend Earl
Speaker 1: Bassett played by Fred Ward, has to fight off an
Speaker 1: attack by subterranean ancient giant worm beasts in order to
Speaker 1: save himself in his small community and Dune. In Just
Speaker 1: like Dune, Garrison and in the lore of the Trimmers movies,
Speaker 1: Val McKee. Kevin Bacon's character is not seen in further
Speaker 1: movies because he gets rich and he marries Ronda le
Speaker 1: Beck and they move off somewhere. Maybe they moved to
Speaker 1: the northeast, to an island off the coast of the
Speaker 1: East Coast, where he bought a house and became a
Speaker 1: survivalist prepper informed by his experiences with his good friend
Speaker 1: Bert Gummer, the local survivalist who shot a giant worm
Speaker 1: to death and maybe leave the world behind. As a
Speaker 1: stealth sequel to the first Trimmers movie, showing what Kevin
Speaker 1: Bacon's character does later in life.
Speaker 2: I would be so much more of a fan of
Speaker 2: SAMs Mill if he if he tried to, if he
Speaker 2: tried to put the Tremor's movies into the canon of
Speaker 2: mister Robot like.
Speaker 1: It would have been, it would have been perfect. I
Speaker 1: would have completely changed my opinion on this movie. He
Speaker 1: shout up to Kevin Bacon's house and he'd come out
Speaker 1: with a gun, and they'd been like, look, we just
Speaker 1: need some antibiotics. He's like, antibiotics, what about the fucking worms?
Speaker 1: How are you people walking around? And then the movie
Speaker 1: ends at the end of the movie it was all
Speaker 1: a Trimmers sequel.
Speaker 2: You you you Korean Iranian terrorists went into the wrong
Speaker 2: reck roof.
Speaker 3: So I lastly just.
Speaker 2: Want to talk a little bit about some of like,
Speaker 2: you know, the obvious problems with this predictive programming idea, right.
Speaker 2: It completely annoys the fact that humans use art as
Speaker 2: a form of cultural creation, like we imagine futures in
Speaker 2: our art specifically because they could come into being, like
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of like sci fi that
Speaker 2: influences technology comes from this. Then that's also kind of
Speaker 2: the basis of of Mark Fisher and Nick Lan's like
Speaker 2: a cultural hyperstition where you specifically make art to have
Speaker 2: this larger cultural effect that then it can bring things
Speaker 2: into being as opposed to the more like individualistic like
Speaker 2: use of like occultism. And then a big, a big
Speaker 2: part of all of this, this predictive programming thing is
Speaker 2: also just like apaphenia, right, It's it's people creating connections
Speaker 2: and patterns and random data because it's it's actually easy
Speaker 2: to look back, can pick out past media that has
Speaker 2: seemingly predicted events, but it's much harder to identify current
Speaker 2: media that is actually predicting future events. Right, this is
Speaker 2: this is a part of hindsight bias, the tendency that
Speaker 2: we have to look at past events is more predictable
Speaker 2: than what they actually were. It is it's a common
Speaker 2: psychological response to a traumatic event like like a big
Speaker 2: pandemic or a school shooting. There's also you know, all
Speaker 2: of these all of these predicted programming theories fall into
Speaker 2: these kind of contradictory depictions. Which is why the which
Speaker 2: is why the Hunger Games guy like uh calls it
Speaker 2: like reverse symbolism. Right, it's it's if this if if
Speaker 2: predictive programming is orchestrated by a shadowy cabal seeking to
Speaker 2: implement a totalitarian takeover by normalizing an incredibly oppressive government.
Speaker 10: Uh.
Speaker 2: In media and film TV, why is the said media
Speaker 2: almost exclusively about like rebel heroes overthrowing and evil to
Speaker 2: talitarian government. Right, it doesn't, it doesn't actually match. And
Speaker 2: there's been a lot of like cultural studies showing that
Speaker 2: whether you portray something in media as positive or negative
Speaker 2: will strongly affect the audience's takeaway of the stimulus. So
Speaker 2: if you show something positively, they're more likely to view
Speaker 2: it as a positive thing. If you show something negatively,
Speaker 2: they're more likely to view it as a negative thing. Right.
Speaker 2: This sounds very obvious, but you do have to do
Speaker 2: like social science to actually like show this is a
Speaker 2: real pattern. And then finally, I will end this by
Speaker 2: quoting from that article from the Ohio State University quote,
Speaker 2: there are a few purposes for predictive programming, and not
Speaker 2: all of them have to deal with tyranny. Some of
Speaker 2: them are meant to lessen the blow of an event
Speaker 2: like nine to eleven or as previously mentioned, at the
Speaker 2: Sandy Hook shootings. The contradiction arises when thinking about why
Speaker 2: the government would want to warn us or prepare us
Speaker 2: for Sandy Hook. The whole point of Sandy Hook conspiracies
Speaker 2: is to doubt the event even happened, so the government
Speaker 2: would create a conversation around gun control. This would defeat
Speaker 2: the purpose of staging it if the government was trying
Speaker 2: to ensure a smaller or inexistent response unquote. Especially like
Speaker 2: looking back at what we talk about with like the Simpsons,
Speaker 2: it's it's just a fun game people play, right, Like
Speaker 2: it's it sounds like a fun a fun world to
Speaker 2: to to live in. If you can imagine this interconnected web,
Speaker 2: connecting every single thing that happens to your own experiences.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's it's.
Speaker 2: A way to turn turn the world into like this,
Speaker 2: this great mystery that you can solve instead of just
Speaker 2: like experiences that you have to live through.
Speaker 3: These people need real hobbies.
Speaker 2: Like Finally, the thing I wanted to mention is that
Speaker 2: the the upcoming discussion of predictive programming is all centered
Speaker 2: around this movie coming out next month called Civil War,
Speaker 2: which many many of these people in their discussion of
Speaker 2: Leave the World Behind are are are very much talking
Speaker 2: about how Civil War just seems like a sequel to
Speaker 2: Leave the World Behind, because Leave the World Behind seems
Speaker 2: like it's set up like a possible American civil war,
Speaker 2: and how this upcoming movie is itself going to be
Speaker 2: a massive predictive programming operation to prepare American citizens for
Speaker 2: civil conflict with each other. So have fun seeing a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of conspiracy theories develop around this movie that
Speaker 2: comes out next month.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'll be that'll be good. I mean, I wish
Speaker 1: people would start some conspiracy theories around. Alex Garland's TV
Speaker 1: showed devs, which is dog shit also and one of
Speaker 1: the one of the worst uses of that guy from
Speaker 1: Parks and rec that I've seen in a long time. Heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: They use math to see the past, Garrison.
Speaker 2: That kind of reminds me of this movie I watched
Speaker 2: for research called Knowing with with Nick Cage, who finds
Speaker 2: a piece of paper that has something that's able to
Speaker 2: predict like catastrophic events. Alex Jones thought this movie predicted
Speaker 2: an oil rig explosion in the Gulf of Mexico. But
Speaker 2: besides that, you don't see it. You don't really see
Speaker 2: it much in these in these circles, despite its very
Speaker 2: like obvious, like predictive focus.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Mostly Dev's features a bunch of very good actors standing
Speaker 1: around and staring at a screen where grainy picture of
Speaker 1: Jesus from the past is lit up in like movie
Speaker 1: theater size screens like it's it's it's very it's very mid.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying about DEVS. It's pretty mid. Folks
Speaker 1: don't watch DEVS.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, same thing with this Obama movie. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: watch out for the Obama's new movies, which are all
Speaker 2: gonna see the collapse of humanity, as well as the
Speaker 2: A twenty four The War movie, which is probably probably
Speaker 2: devious in some way, so have fun with that.
Speaker 10: You know.
Speaker 1: I'll say this, Barack Obama, it's not his fault, obviously
Speaker 1: that a bunch of racists lost their mind when he
Speaker 1: became president, But knowing that it was kind of responsible
Speaker 1: for him to make his debut movie production a movie
Speaker 1: about a cabal taking over the government using secret weapons.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you knew what was.
Speaker 1: Going to happen, Barack. You're not a dumb man to
Speaker 1: tell me that's not what was going to happen.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, all right, Well, I think that does it for
Speaker 2: us today. Have fun predicting the end of this episode.
Speaker 10: Hello, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and night. I'm
Speaker 10: Andrew Sage and I run the YouTube channel Andrewism. But
Speaker 10: this is it could happen here today. I'm carrying on
Speaker 10: my discussion of everyone's favorite subject, collapse. I'm here, of
Speaker 10: course with Garrison, and last time we spoke about the what, why,
Speaker 10: and how of collapse, as well as in many ways
Speaker 10: people respond when confronted with this crisis. So if you're
Speaker 10: curious about that, you can listen to the previous discussion.
Speaker 10: One thing I didn't touch on last time was the
Speaker 10: various levels of awareness that people have about collapse, because
Speaker 10: as with most things in this life, it exists on
Speaker 10: more of a spectrum than anything. We're all on this
Speaker 10: learning journey and some people are further along, if you
Speaker 10: could even really relate, it's not way than others. Some
Speaker 10: discussions of collapse are informed by author Paula Shafferka's Stages
Speaker 10: of Collapse. There are five stages in total, and the
Speaker 10: first stage is dead asleep, which is where you're really
Speaker 10: just vibing. You know, you can see some issues in
Speaker 10: the world here and there, but that could be fixed, right.
Speaker 10: All we had to do is organize a bit better,
Speaker 10: change our behaviors, slightly tweak the rules, and we'll be fine.
Speaker 10: But then you move on to the next stage, which
Speaker 10: is the awareness of one fundamental problem is when you realize, oh,
Speaker 10: there's something structurally wrong. What you only see in one
Speaker 10: part of that structural flow, so it seems everything is
Speaker 10: not you know, cash money, you know, maybe fond about
Speaker 10: the depths of systemic racism or imperialism, or overfission or
Speaker 10: mass extinction or fracket. And you know, as one does,
Speaker 10: you start to freak out a little bit. You know,
Speaker 10: maybe you mobilize to bring some awareness of this issue,
Speaker 10: just so people know that you know something is wrong,
Speaker 10: let's fix it, and that one problem can even consume
Speaker 10: you entirely. And then consuming all that knowledge about that
Speaker 10: one problem, you keep learning, and if you really do
Speaker 10: keep learning and are open to learn more and more
Speaker 10: about the issue, eventually reach an awareness of many problems.
Speaker 10: The next stage. The more you learn, the more you worry.
Speaker 10: You take in all sorts of information and begin to
Speaker 10: see how complex and multifaceted the world's problems are. Now
Speaker 10: it's hard for you to even prioritize which is so
Speaker 10: need to be tell first. In fact, it's so overwhelmed
Speaker 10: you do have be reluctant to acknowledge new problems because
Speaker 10: you already have so much on your plate. Alas, you
Speaker 10: cannot ignore the other problems forever, not unless you want
Speaker 10: to keep running in circles. So you get to the
Speaker 10: stage of awareness of the interconnections between the many problems,
Speaker 10: it starts to dawn on you that there are no
Speaker 10: easy solutions. Shutting down factory farms mainly off millions and
Speaker 10: leave perhaps hundreds of millions for a complete meal, or
Speaker 10: efforts to raise the standard of living in the developing
Speaker 10: world through industrialization in the footsteps of the developed world
Speaker 10: just might accelerate the Earth demise and profit a select
Speaker 10: few at least you thinking on the systems level, now
Speaker 10: beyond the symptoms towards the source. Perhaps there is no
Speaker 10: one solution, Perhaps the gravity of such a solution maybe
Speaker 10: too much to pay. So finally, at the last stage,
Speaker 10: you get to awareness that the predicament encompasses all aspects
Speaker 10: of life, so much so you might even pine after
Speaker 10: ignorance as you realize that this series of problems, or
Speaker 10: rather this all encompassing capital p predicament, includes everything we do,
Speaker 10: how we do, what we do, how we relate, and
Speaker 10: how we affect the entire planet. The predicaments is so
Speaker 10: massive you might even reach a point where you're just like,
Speaker 10: there is no capital s solution to this capital be predicament,
Speaker 10: no easy answer, no quick fix, and you can't do
Speaker 10: it alone. So now what now? In the last episode,
Speaker 10: I would have spoken about a couple of different responses
Speaker 10: that people have had to collapse slumber, denial, apathy, preoccupation, hedonism,
Speaker 10: overwhelm and blind hope, individual change, progress, worship, leader worship,
Speaker 10: apocalypse worship, despair, but as promised for this episode, I
Speaker 10: want to be a bit more constructive in focus and
Speaker 10: so to answer the question, really is there any way out?
Speaker 10: But before I get to that garrison, do you think
Speaker 10: there are any stages am I have missed in that
Speaker 10: progression of understanding? Or what have you observed in your experience?
Speaker 2: I mean one thing I kind of will Reitter eight,
Speaker 2: that is, this is something that was talked about a
Speaker 2: lot when when Robert was putting together the second season
Speaker 2: of It could happen here is is trying to avoid Yeah,
Speaker 2: like like like looking at collapse as one singular moment
Speaker 2: and more as this Like it's a more gauzy and
Speaker 2: more fuzzy slow crumbling of things that we have grown
Speaker 2: to rely on. And it sometimes you could like envision
Speaker 2: it eventually reaching to some sort of tipping point, but
Speaker 2: other times the tipping points never really ever reach. It's
Speaker 2: it's it's just it's just this this forever kind of
Speaker 2: crumbling and then rebuilding and then crumbling and rebuilding, and
Speaker 2: you get to like a ship a theseus situation where eventually,
Speaker 2: at one point the thing is completely different from what
Speaker 2: it used to be, but there was never like a
Speaker 2: full moment of quote unquote collapse. It was just this
Speaker 2: this continual like crumbling and then becoming into the next thing.
Speaker 10: It kind of saw and similar to what John Michael
Speaker 10: Greer described, No, not John Michael Greer, David Korwitz. He
Speaker 10: talks about this idea of like oscillating decline. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 10: these these recessions, these declines, and you have a couple
Speaker 10: of peaks when things have to climb up a little
Speaker 10: bit and then and then the overall picture is like
Speaker 10: a downward trend, but there are some like brief aspects
Speaker 10: of recovery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's definitely a mode that I think about
Speaker 2: a lot. You know, a lot of people are worried
Speaker 2: of like some like some event triggering a much kind
Speaker 2: of larger scale collapse. And I think it's good too
Speaker 2: to focus on all of the smaller, the smaller crumbling
Speaker 2: that's just always happening all of the time, no matter
Speaker 2: where you live.
Speaker 10: So I mean my experience is pretty similar. I think
Speaker 10: one of the first issues that I became like fundamentally
Speaker 10: aware of was climate change. Sure, of course, I mean
Speaker 10: you crack up any one of those like I don't
Speaker 10: know if you ever got one of those big books
Speaker 10: of knowledge as a child.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had.
Speaker 10: I had a few kind of plastic pages. Yeah, just
Speaker 10: so they have all these big, amazing pictures.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 10: So I remember seeing those in one of those books,
Speaker 10: like this huge like mountain of trash and seeing like
Speaker 10: this this floating garbage patch in the ocean, and I
Speaker 10: was just like wow. And then later on, so the
Speaker 10: first thing wasn't even climate change, it was pollution. And
Speaker 10: then later on I started doing about climate change, and
Speaker 10: then that really became like my nature thing. And then
Speaker 10: later on I as I got older and I learn't
Speaker 10: learned history and that sort of thing, I came to
Speaker 10: economics and all that stuff. I came to realize that
Speaker 10: just how big situation was. And now I'm here. So,
Speaker 10: as I said in the previous episode, we really don't
Speaker 10: need blind hope, and I should be upondly clear, we
Speaker 10: definitely don't need hopeless despair. It's a little rhyme there.
Speaker 10: So how do we respond to this predicament? The short
Speaker 10: answer is that I don't know. The long answer is
Speaker 10: this whole podcast episode. I mean I could give some platitudes,
Speaker 10: you know, we need sobriety, clarity, lucidity. I mean Paul
Speaker 10: Shafuka points out in his article that those in stage
Speaker 10: five awareness who see that the predicament encompasses all aspects
Speaker 10: of life look to one of two paths. And I
Speaker 10: mean I've since adapted into Britain and remixed the two paths,
Speaker 10: so not one to one with what he had in mind,
Speaker 10: but you should get the gist. The first path of
Speaker 10: response to the predicaments of collapse is the inner path
Speaker 10: of self healer. It's a manifestation of that fake Can
Speaker 10: the quote be the change you want to see in
Speaker 10: the world, sort of retreating into oneself, digging deep and
Speaker 10: personal to helping your self awareness. I mean some people
Speaker 10: take this to mean some sort of hyper individual thing,
Speaker 10: and its low key is if you tilt and twist
Speaker 10: your head slightly, you can maybe see it in a
Speaker 10: different light. I don't think it has to mean becoming
Speaker 10: a monk or an aesthetic. I don't think it means
Speaker 10: denying systems or ignoring the painful truth. I think it
Speaker 10: involves taken in the gravity of what we're dealing with,
Speaker 10: such a grand scale issue, and putting it in a
Speaker 10: personal context, unabstracting it and understanding it through a more
Speaker 10: managical lens. I'm not one to fall back on evolutionary
Speaker 10: terminism or anything like that, but I do think often
Speaker 10: about how we kind of weren't meant to be processing
Speaker 10: this entire planet, this entire population.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 10: I think we're very good at dealing with immediate problems,
Speaker 10: very good at looking at situations that are before us,
Speaker 10: that are directly impacting us, and look at how we
Speaker 10: can solve that. And of course, no local solution necessarily
Speaker 10: is going to buy itself solve a global crisis, but
Speaker 10: medley of local solutions can. But we're not even talking
Speaker 10: here with this inner path of local solutions yet, we're
Speaker 10: talking even at a smaller scale, in the local, at
Speaker 10: the base unit of society, which is the self. So
Speaker 10: you might continue pursuing knowledge of the issues, start developing
Speaker 10: your practical skills and people's skills, trying to minimalize your
Speaker 10: lifestyle and preparation for the economic and social shocks of collapse,
Speaker 10: perhaps seeking to settle somewhere you determined it's best suited
Speaker 10: to whether the coming storms, which I believe. I saw
Speaker 10: a video like some years ago where this guy was
Speaker 10: saying the Midwest might be the best place environmentally to settle.
Speaker 10: I don't know if you'll cover that in the fust
Speaker 10: to a second season that could happen, yet, I.
Speaker 2: Mean there was something definitely we we looked we were
Speaker 2: looking into during some of the research phases of a
Speaker 2: lot of the agriculture that is currently based in the
Speaker 2: south of the United States every every every decade is
Speaker 2: going to start moving up and up and up, and
Speaker 2: particularly like Canada is going to enter a very large
Speaker 2: agricultural economic boom. That process has already started. But yes,
Speaker 2: there's gonna like be this this slow rising level of
Speaker 2: like industrial farming, which first of all, isn't isn't actually
Speaker 2: great for the land itself. Like once all of the
Speaker 2: land that's abandoned in the Southern States, like after it's
Speaker 2: been tapped for so long, it's really just like dust,
Speaker 2: like it's it's not actually useful dirt anymore. But it's
Speaker 2: all of that stuff's going to start moving farther and
Speaker 2: farther north as the as the conditions for growth start changing.
Speaker 2: And mean, it's the same thing for a lot of
Speaker 2: a lot of things that are grown and like more
Speaker 2: like jungly forest mountain areas where every year, like coffee
Speaker 2: and chocolate. They have to start they have to they
Speaker 2: have to start moving the crops further up the mountain.
Speaker 2: And again that's that doesn't that's obviously not a great
Speaker 2: long term solution because the mountain is only so high
Speaker 2: that it costs and it costs a lot of money
Speaker 2: to constantly be moving your crops higher and higher up
Speaker 2: a mountain. Indeed, but that is the sort of like
Speaker 2: agricultural and like economic drive. It's going to start getting
Speaker 2: more and more common to supply the amount of food
Speaker 2: that Americans are used to eating. And it won't like
Speaker 2: in the case of coffee, like it's not like actual
Speaker 2: coffee beans are not going to be as common as
Speaker 2: they were today or twenty years ago. It's going to
Speaker 2: become more of like a higher priced luxury item. And
Speaker 2: I'm sure, I'm sure Americans will get their caffeine fixed
Speaker 2: some other way. But yeah, it's like that those those
Speaker 2: sorts changes are going to become more and more and
Speaker 2: more commonplace.
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And this is why you know,
Speaker 10: anarchists get I think unfairly labeled like past like like
Speaker 10: excessively a ca area or maybe parochial and the focus.
Speaker 10: But I think that as we talk about the degradation
Speaker 10: of soils, We talk about the failures in the long
Speaker 10: term of monocultural large scale farm and the only way
Speaker 10: that we're really going to see that sort of land
Speaker 10: restored again is through the sort of agro forestry, puma culture,
Speaker 10: you know, small scale practices that involve rebuilding that relationship
Speaker 10: between the people and the land itself. Regardden outside of
Speaker 10: the US, I don't know what my game plan would be.
Speaker 10: The dry seasons are certainly dry, and I think last
Speaker 10: year actually was one of our driest wet seasons, So
Speaker 10: I don't really plan on leaving, but I do think
Speaker 10: about I do find myself thinking about, Okay, where am
Speaker 10: I gonna, like, but where am I going to settle?
Speaker 10: You know, Like, where am I going to be able
Speaker 10: to like safeguard myself and stay connected with people and
Speaker 10: live you know. So in a sense, I am on
Speaker 10: that inner path, educating myself as much as possible, trying
Speaker 10: to develop my practical skills, focusing on what I could
Speaker 10: do as an individual to make changes in my own
Speaker 10: life and partially in my surroundings the way that is manageable. Hassan,
Speaker 10: do you see yourself in this path? As well.
Speaker 2: I I'm not sure I tried to not I I
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time thinking about the future, I guess,
Speaker 2: but I try not to lock myself into any any
Speaker 2: particular pathway. I don't know, like I've already started to
Speaker 2: move around the US, leaving leaving the places where I've
Speaker 2: kind of grown up for the majority of my life
Speaker 2: that are actually decently suited for for some kind of
Speaker 2: climate collapse. But yeah, I I I don't know, I
Speaker 2: have I have risk. I have some form of hesitancy
Speaker 2: to like seed territory or just like like right off
Speaker 2: places as just being like not worth it, like especially
Speaker 2: especially like the South, the American Southeast, just like that
Speaker 2: there's kind of a there's kind of a nocean, just
Speaker 2: to like write off large swaths of areas, whether like agriculturally,
Speaker 2: like climate wise, or like even like politically being like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is just where all of the fascists are gonna live,
Speaker 2: and like that's not that's not true. This this has
Speaker 2: this area of the country is actually is one of
Speaker 2: the most diverse parts of the country, and to write
Speaker 2: it off all is like just like Republican Land is
Speaker 2: I think is grossly misguided, absolutely On the other hand,
Speaker 2: if things get really really bad, I'm also gonna hold
Speaker 2: onto my Canadian passport and just go and have that,
Speaker 2: have that as a backup option, just to just to
Speaker 2: go up north into uh into the snowy desolate of
Speaker 2: northern Alberta.
Speaker 10: So I mean I kind of a shove. Yeah, if
Speaker 10: Bush comes to shove. Antarctica is the final frontier.
Speaker 2: Right, So, like I I I always kind of I'm
Speaker 2: I have that backup option, which is easier than a
Speaker 2: lot of people. But it's it's it's it's something. It's
Speaker 2: something I try not to like. I don't like relying
Speaker 2: on that kind of notion.
Speaker 10: I feel you, I feel you, yeah, And I mean
Speaker 10: that's part of why I don't say this in our
Speaker 10: path is fully satisfactory to me. Yeah, even though I
Speaker 10: feel it's a path of unconsciously chosen due to some
Speaker 10: of the challenges I've faced on the outer path. But
Speaker 10: still what clicks with me more is the outer path.
Speaker 10: I've also called it balanced realism, which is, you know,
Speaker 10: hard to balance because a lot of people who confuse
Speaker 10: realism with pessimism, you know, you just see everything being awful.
Speaker 10: As I'm a realist, you know, But truthfully, I think
Speaker 10: taking the outer path of balance realism means shaken off
Speaker 10: the burdens and blinders are both pessimism and optimism and
Speaker 10: alarmism and denihialism and fatalism and hedonism and all these
Speaker 10: other setbacks and obstacles.
Speaker 3: All the other.
Speaker 10: Except aneurism. Trying to keep watching anwism, please, but you're
Speaker 10: really loosing yourself from your own hopes and fears. Really,
Speaker 10: I think the way I try to see it is
Speaker 10: I have no idea, and no one can really know
Speaker 10: what outcome there will be. You know, up to now,
Speaker 10: I have a better profit, I have meta sayer, I
Speaker 10: have meta fortune teller. I don't think any of us
Speaker 10: really know what the outcome will be. And there's so
Speaker 10: many factors that you can't even calculate and take into accome. Yeah,
Speaker 10: I mean, for all we know, I mean, it will
Speaker 10: be very disruptive of our reality, right, and personally, I'm
Speaker 10: not really a believer in like there be an interspeller
Speaker 10: alien species, but you know, imagine just out of the blue,
Speaker 10: like on a random Thursday afternoon, there was an actual
Speaker 10: alien invasion. I don't think any of us can really
Speaker 10: predict that. Of course, there are things that we do
Speaker 10: have the abilits to predict and work with and stuff
Speaker 10: like that. But really, of course that's an ex saggery
Speaker 10: to the example. But I want to be able to
Speaker 10: recognize and accept any number of possible outcomes in the
Speaker 10: face of such a grand predicament. I think maintaining realism
Speaker 10: is difficult, especially with so much information. Who have been
Speaker 10: around in the ether, and you don't know what's true
Speaker 10: and what's not. But I think it's necessary. You know,
Speaker 10: you agitate, your fight, your build for the best, but
Speaker 10: you also prepare and defend for the worst prefecide. By
Speaker 10: the way, on optimism, I see really two sides of
Speaker 10: collapse optimism. Both I think are well placed, but both
Speaker 10: unfortunately misled. There's the optimism that collapse absolutely will not
Speaker 10: take place, which I think is a sort of optimism
Speaker 10: that doesn't really quite understand where collapse, what forms collapse
Speaker 10: can take. And then it's a sort of optimism that
Speaker 10: collapse will take place but will overcome it. I mean,
Speaker 10: the house of collapse might not line up fully with
Speaker 10: our predictions, but there is a very clear trajectory that
Speaker 10: we are on the idea that collapse is just not
Speaker 10: in the cards at all, really feels like wishful thinking
Speaker 10: humanity I don't think has the plot armor that we
Speaker 10: tend to think it does. And that lack of plot
Speaker 10: armor also means that there's really no guarantee that we
Speaker 10: will overcome collapse if it does occur. There are no
Speaker 10: show outcomes, to be sure, but that doesn't mean a
Speaker 10: bit destined to come out of this unscathed. But what
Speaker 10: do you think of optimism considering what you do for work?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I honestly don't think about optimism very much. I see
Speaker 2: a lot of bad stuff, like every day as a
Speaker 2: part of my job, I think about a lot of
Speaker 2: like grim stuff, I suppose, but it's honestly not something
Speaker 2: I think about it. I think it's it's it's a
Speaker 2: little bit of its own bubble. I think there's a
Speaker 2: utility for having hope but not having a sense of
Speaker 2: just like static optimism, I think. I think hope is
Speaker 2: a is a is a useful thing to have in
Speaker 2: your brain, but but not not have it be as
Speaker 2: like this just like umbrella that you apply to every
Speaker 2: single aspect of your life in the way like optimism is,
Speaker 2: but in terms of like when you're mentioning, like the
Speaker 2: alien thing. I think one way that people do think
Speaker 2: about collapse or trying to cope with it a lot
Speaker 2: is like it's kind of some form of like disx machana,
Speaker 2: like like this this something will happen, whether that's some
Speaker 2: other like catastrophic event or like apocalyptic event, or it's
Speaker 2: like some new found scientific advancement that one day will
Speaker 2: pop into existence and then we'll solve all of these problems.
Speaker 2: I think both of those are kind of a form
Speaker 2: of a dix macana, and both of those are actually
Speaker 2: ways of coping, even though one is more apocalyptic and
Speaker 2: one's more utopian.
Speaker 10: I thought you were talking about the video game series,
Speaker 10: you know, no, Like I was thinking, oh, yeah, you
Speaker 10: know ex cybern etics.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, sure, I we like that kind of that
Speaker 2: kind of is its own form of dis x makta
Speaker 2: in terms.
Speaker 3: Of this, this.
Speaker 2: This thing entering from backstage that now solves all of
Speaker 2: these problems we have in the story of the world.
Speaker 2: But I mean that is I think that's that's the
Speaker 2: thing that I think a lot of people try to
Speaker 2: find some so it kind of allows you to not
Speaker 2: be in denial about the current predicament, but still envision
Speaker 2: a future that is pretty similar to what we currently have,
Speaker 2: just with this like magical invention or this or this
Speaker 2: like or this like apocalyptic event that forces people to
Speaker 2: like actually solve some some degree of problems.
Speaker 9: You know.
Speaker 2: It's kind of it's kind of like the thing in
Speaker 2: Alan Moore's Watchman, being like if there was a giant squid,
Speaker 2: then the whole world would team up together solve the problem,
Speaker 2: and I don't know, that seems a little bit less likely.
Speaker 10: Yeah, Unfortunately, climate collapse, ecological collapse is not a giant squid,
Speaker 10: and there is no Doctor Manhattan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even even after COVID, right, you have this massive,
Speaker 2: like world threatening event, and it's it's kind of the
Speaker 2: perfect example of it's like a you know, a version
Speaker 2: of the giant squid, and that did not lead to
Speaker 2: the whole world working together to solve this big problem.
Speaker 10: I mean, to be fair, it was like a giant
Speaker 10: invisible squid.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 10: To be fair as well, the giant invisible squid is
Speaker 10: still there and like regularly claiming lives, we kind of
Speaker 10: just go up all with alladays, kind of ignoring its like, oh,
Speaker 10: you know, there goes Fred, you know, snatched up by
Speaker 10: the giant squid.
Speaker 2: I'm sure in the Watchmen world there would be a
Speaker 2: great many of like squid deniers, of people who are like, no,
Speaker 2: this squid was never real. This this couid was all fake.
Speaker 2: That was all faked in New York City. It was
Speaker 2: it was, It wasn't real like that.
Speaker 10: I long said, there's no opinion that everybody in the
Speaker 10: world would agree with, you know, like if you were
Speaker 10: to say, for example, that all humans need food to live,
Speaker 10: there's gonna be a contrarian who's gonna tell you, actually,
Speaker 10: I survive on photosynthesis. I'm a breatheteria. You know, there's
Speaker 10: there's no uncontroversial tea because they will. I think there
Speaker 10: will be a deniers no matter what. You know, as
Speaker 10: you were talking about optimism and sort of the dark
Speaker 10: things you're dealing with, it reminded me of something that
Speaker 10: that shook me. Yesterday. I was watching shown on YouTube
Speaker 10: Sean's video on Palistine and he shared the story of
Speaker 10: this young person and boy who had filmed the video
Speaker 10: celebrating himself winning kat in a thousand subscribers, and he
Speaker 10: was sharing his goals of you know, he may get
Speaker 10: in ten tho one hundred thousand, maybe even a million,
Speaker 10: and he was killed last year by the idea. So
Speaker 10: I think, I mean, it's connected, but not entirely related.
Speaker 10: We're talking more long lines of ecological collapse and systems
Speaker 10: collapse and this sort of thing. And while it's true
Speaker 10: that for much of the world collapse is not going
Speaker 10: to look like a singular event, I think it is
Speaker 10: also important to recognize that and remember that there are
Speaker 10: people for whom collapse, or rather they are subjective collapse.
Speaker 10: The collapse of their world, their way of life they exists,
Speaker 10: is staring them in the face.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 10: Now, you know, I don't want to compare misfortunes, but
Speaker 10: you know, there is that reality that you know, some
Speaker 10: people are facing like cataclysm right in their face, and
Speaker 10: for others it's like a slower boon, but ultimately similar feats.
Speaker 10: You know.
Speaker 2: That was something we were also considering when putting together
Speaker 2: some of the climate change focused earlier episodes from a
Speaker 2: few years back. And like the effects of climate change
Speaker 2: or just collapse in general are not like uniform, right
Speaker 2: they they it first targets on the periphery and like whatever,
Speaker 2: that's kind of a faulty way of doing that right,
Speaker 2: Like an old term would be like the third world.
Speaker 3: We were trying to find better, better terms for this
Speaker 3: and that of.
Speaker 10: Them really fully work.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 10: I was actually recently talking and I stream about how
Speaker 10: like like I'm just like I feel like all these
Speaker 10: distinctions people trying to drow, like the West is just
Speaker 10: the east or you know, global North is schoogle. So
Speaker 10: they're all a bit messy. Yes, actual application.
Speaker 3: But the people on.
Speaker 2: Like the the edges of empire, the edges of like
Speaker 2: the Imperial engine, are going to face this a lot
Speaker 2: sooner than the people in the imperial core and like that.
Speaker 2: That is just whether that's collapsed through like war like
Speaker 2: like like forced collapse, or that's collapsed through like environmental
Speaker 2: factors like but both of those are often the case.
Speaker 2: People are going to do a lot of work to
Speaker 2: maintain the mecca of New York City, but they're not
Speaker 2: going to care for a small town, not.
Speaker 10: Even a small town like Jakarta could sink into the ocean.
Speaker 2: And absolutely like just like who kires, right, hurricanes taking
Speaker 2: out like act like care just to be clear, the
Speaker 2: whole countries, Yeah, no, absolutely, like those these things do
Speaker 2: not do not get held on the same the same level.
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, so I mean I'm supposed to answer my
Speaker 10: own question. I think you do need a dose of
Speaker 10: optimism to keep you from falling to despair or completely
Speaker 10: checking out to the struggle, just for the sake of
Speaker 10: your mental health, but not to the point of blindness
Speaker 10: from the truth. I don't think there's anything wrong with
Speaker 10: maintaining some level of emotional cushion in to keep you
Speaker 10: going to you know, fuel you to wake up in
Speaker 10: the morning and and make it through your day. But
Speaker 10: not to the point of the delusion, I suppose. And
Speaker 10: I think this is this is the value of the
Speaker 10: outer path as well. And I think this outer path
Speaker 10: is fueled by a bit of in a grace and peace.
Speaker 10: You know, you've let go of some level of naivety
Speaker 10: and passivity. You're moving, acting, doing, adapting. And here, of course,
Speaker 10: I'm thinking of like the Puma culture movement, the Transition
Speaker 10: Towns Network, or the other ongoing movements and projects, none
Speaker 10: of which are perfect, mind you, none of which are
Speaker 10: going to say the whole world or anything, but they
Speaker 10: Sidney try. And I'm as thinking of like the movement
Speaker 10: for the MST in Brazil, and you know the Leavia Campecina,
Speaker 10: who we would have interviewed in people about recently. These groups,
Speaker 10: these movements, they struggles are thinking, are looking local, thinking
Speaker 10: global and actually really making a difference. I think that
Speaker 10: outlook is necessary. I think we need more political movements
Speaker 10: it could be honest about reality that aren't waiting for
Speaker 10: a safere or politician that aren't wait sensor it's too
Speaker 10: late to act, that aren't removing power from the hands
Speaker 10: of people and placement elsewhere move instead of far less
Speaker 10: reactive and more proactive, and maybe we'll never see a
Speaker 10: global shift to the growth or a steady state economy
Speaker 10: in all lifetimes without a major disruption and shifting the
Speaker 10: efforts of grounds roots movements. We can definitely see small scale,
Speaker 10: local resilient systems springing up and spreading that are better
Speaker 10: able to endure the coming economic, socio ecological shocks. I
Speaker 10: am as pro social revolution as they come, but I
Speaker 10: think we need a more expansive understanding of what that entails.
Speaker 10: I was reading actually this Morning Anarchy, a graphic guide
Speaker 10: by Clifford Harper, and he spoke about how sixty five
Speaker 10: years of persistent agitation and organization culminated in the largest
Speaker 10: far reaching revolutionary movement of the modern times. I think
Speaker 10: when we discuss the Spanish Civil War and the cnt FAI,
Speaker 10: a lot of people get caught up from always happening
Speaker 10: during the Civil War. But I think I don't think
Speaker 10: there's not focused on the fact that, you know, these
Speaker 10: organizations were moving and shaken in their communities and in
Speaker 10: their regions for decades prior to any major you know
Speaker 10: pop off. You know, like a general strike does not
Speaker 10: happen overnight, and insurrection does not happen overnight, espectially not
Speaker 10: without the level of broad scale support they will be
Speaker 10: necessary to sustain those efforts. On the topic of the
Speaker 10: Transition Movement in particular, that movement was officially started in
Speaker 10: two thousand and six in the UK, but had some
Speaker 10: routes before then. In two thousand and four, primic culture
Speaker 10: designer Rob Hopkins task students at Kinsale through their Education college,
Speaker 10: with applying primical principles to the concept of peak oil,
Speaker 10: leading to the creation of the Kinseal Energy Descent Action Plan.
Speaker 10: Two students, Louis Rooney and Catherine Dune developed the Transition
Speaker 10: Town's concept, presented into the Kinsale Town Council which adopts
Speaker 10: the plan for energy independence. Then Hopkins later moved to Totney's, England,
Speaker 10: where he, along with Naresh Kiang gray Kian Grandee, developed
Speaker 10: these concepts into the Transition model. Transition Town Totney's founded
Speaker 10: in early two thousand and six, serious inspiration for other
Speaker 10: transition initiatives globally. Early two thousand and seven, the Transition
Speaker 10: Network UK charity was co founded by Rob Hopkins, Peter
Speaker 10: Lippmann and Ben Brangwin his support and the sound transition
Speaker 10: concepts worldwide. By two thousand and eight, product had expanded,
Speaker 10: with numerous communities becoming official transition towns. These are things
Speaker 10: you don't care about in the news. These are positive
Speaker 10: developments that have happened under the radar for decades. At
Speaker 10: this point. By May twenty ten, over four hundred community
Speaker 10: initiatives will recognize as official transition towns in various countries,
Speaker 10: reflecting the diverse range of communities involved, from villages and
Speaker 10: neighborhoods to cities and city boroughs. The initiatives who developed
Speaker 10: citizens cooperatives, renewable energy, local and sustainable food systems, new
Speaker 10: cooperative economic models, sustainable transport systems, energy to send action plans,
Speaker 10: and even hearts and Soul groups built to respond to
Speaker 10: the emotional components of collapse and transition. In the book
Speaker 10: How Everything Can Collapse, which I referenced in the previous episode,
Speaker 10: Paulo Savine and Raphael Stephen's talk about the paradox of collapse,
Speaker 10: and I'll leave it in their words because I think
Speaker 10: it was really well put.
Speaker 4: Quote.
Speaker 10: From a philosophical point of view, transition is a strange
Speaker 10: and paradoxical thing. It's both catastrophists optimistic, that is to say,
Speaker 10: both lucid and pragmatic. Lucid because the people involved in
Speaker 10: these movements are not in denial about catastrophes. Most of
Speaker 10: them have given up the myth of eating out growth
Speaker 10: as well as the myth of the apocalypse. They know
Speaker 10: and believe in what awaits us, and generally receptive to
Speaker 10: catastrophistic language because they already are committed to this search
Speaker 10: for real alternatives. Pragmatic because catastrophists political thinking. It's not
Speaker 10: apocalyptic in nature. It's not claim to worried about the
Speaker 10: end of the world, but more precisely about a sudden
Speaker 10: and potentially traumatic reorganization of ecosystems and societies. Neither business
Speaker 10: as usual nor the end of the world, just a
Speaker 10: world to invent together here and now and good. The
Speaker 10: transition movement is vitally rooted in imagination, and I've spoken
Speaker 10: about the vitality of imagination in the past. In fact,
Speaker 10: my video on the subject was partially inspired by Rob
Speaker 10: Hopkins's book, From What Is to What If You imagine?
Speaker 10: You sketch out the details, and you roll up your
Speaker 10: sleeves and you make it real. The development of the
Speaker 10: Transition Networks project, Rob Hopkins, along with others, published the
Speaker 10: Transition Handbook, which is structured in three parts. Versus the head,
Speaker 10: which are the facts of the situation. Then you have
Speaker 10: the heart, which are the emotional consequences and desire futures.
Speaker 10: And then you have the hands, which is how you
Speaker 10: get from imagination to action. I just thought that was
Speaker 10: a really great approach, even though the Handbook is dated
Speaker 10: in some ways. Of course, guiding people through the process
Speaker 10: of even accepting transition and getting them on the outer
Speaker 10: path works well on the small and personal scale, but
Speaker 10: there is a challenge of scale. Savine and Steven's point
Speaker 10: out that you can't exactly announce on a large platform
Speaker 10: listen up, everybody, prepare for the end of the world.
Speaker 4: As you can.
Speaker 10: Imagine, it ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy. It's
Speaker 10: kind of like telling people not to rush out and
Speaker 10: buy upol the toilet. People transition on larger scales is
Speaker 10: differult not to say it's not difficult to build the
Speaker 10: local communities resilience from disruptions in food, energy, climate, et cetera,
Speaker 10: but on the macro scale is even more difficult. At
Speaker 10: least if you're determined to take on a top down approach.
Speaker 10: You get what I'm saying is because this isn't exactly
Speaker 10: a problem that rulers are capable of solving. The debt
Speaker 10: system is not going to go away by decree. The
Speaker 10: energy system that fills their coffers won't shift until it
Speaker 10: profits them either. And in seeing like a States, the
Speaker 10: anthropologist James Scott spends a lot of time discussing just
Speaker 10: how that top down perspective of the world is inherently
Speaker 10: limited and incapable of effecting those sorts of changes. But
Speaker 10: thankfully the people able to act where rulers won't. As
Speaker 10: being the Stevens put it, transitioners to that wait for governments.
Speaker 10: They already invent in ways of living through this collect
Speaker 10: through this collapse in a non tragic way. They are
Speaker 10: not waiting for the worst, but building for the best. Ultimately,
Speaker 10: I'm trying to get on the level of the Transition
Speaker 10: Town realists on the outs of path that are building networks,
Speaker 10: building community, and building sustainability. Highly suggests that if you're
Speaker 10: looking for ways to help out in your local situation,
Speaker 10: check out the Transition Town network and see how you
Speaker 10: can tap in or start your own initiative and your
Speaker 10: own area. That's all I have for now or power
Speaker 10: to all the people. This is it could happen here.
Speaker 10: I am Andrew, This is Garason, Peace.
Speaker 12: Hello, this is it could happen here, and I am
Speaker 12: sureen Today we have an update for you about what
Speaker 12: has happened in Palestine. There is a lot that is
Speaker 12: happening in Palestine, way way too much to cover in
Speaker 12: a single podcast episode, but I hope this at least
Speaker 12: gives you a general idea of where we currently stand,
Speaker 12: just for clarity and context. I am recording this on Tuesday,
Speaker 12: March twelfth, so any numbers I mention, unfortunately and probably
Speaker 12: are different now at this point, there have been over
Speaker 12: five months of bombardment and genocide, and this has caused
Speaker 12: a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, with children starving to death
Speaker 12: due to malnutrition and dehydration. As Israel has imposed restrictions
Speaker 12: on aid deliveries to Gaza, five months of genocide on
Speaker 12: top of more than a decade and a half of
Speaker 12: blockade have caused relentless mental harm to children in Gaza.
Speaker 12: According to our report released by Save the Children on Tuesday,
Speaker 12: twenty five Palestinians and Graza, including out least twenty children
Speaker 12: and a two month old baby, have died of malnutrition
Speaker 12: and dehydration. According to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, the
Speaker 12: true death toll due to starvation is feared to be
Speaker 12: much higher as many Palestinians, particularly in northern Gaza, face
Speaker 12: famine and are almost entirely cut off from the severely
Speaker 12: limited humanitarian aid which is entering Gaza through the southern
Speaker 12: Rapah crossing. Many Israelis have also been blocking aid from
Speaker 12: entering Gaza. A group of Israeli protesters have been blocking
Speaker 12: aid trucks from crossing into the Gaza Strip for weeks now,
Speaker 12: vowing that quote not a single loaf of bread should
Speaker 12: reach those trapped in the tiny region of the Gaza
Speaker 12: strip until all remaining hostages are released. The area around
Speaker 12: Karam Shalom, which is Israel's only functioning border crossing with Gaza,
Speaker 12: is a closed military zone, but the IOF officers and
Speaker 12: their presence there hardly deters the dozens of protesters, who
Speaker 12: are mostly settlers, families of hostages, and deactivated military reservists.
Speaker 12: It does not deter them from trekking through the area
Speaker 12: and protesting in an attempt to slow AID trucks from
Speaker 12: entering Razza. I'm noticing right now that I'm interchangeably using
Speaker 12: Gaza and Razza. Raza's just how you say in Arabic.
Speaker 12: U sofoye if I jump around my apologies on the ground,
Speaker 12: CNN recorded an interview with protester w Sharon. She pointed
Speaker 12: to an AID truck convoy and said, this arrives into
Speaker 12: the tunnels of Hamas, fighting us and holding our hostages.
Speaker 12: There is no evidence that the majority of AID, including
Speaker 12: food and medical supplies, is going to Hamas. Sharon and
Speaker 12: her fellow protesters are demanding that AIDS stop entering Gaza,
Speaker 12: where over thirty thousand people have now been killed, according
Speaker 12: to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, with people at an
Speaker 12: increasing risk of starvation. Another protester named Katya said they
Speaker 12: should only get the minimum calories to survive if they
Speaker 12: are starving to death, give the hostages back. Not a
Speaker 12: single loaf of bread should go there till our hostages
Speaker 12: are coming back. When questioned about the scale of human
Speaker 12: suffering in Gaza, Katya seemed unmoved. She said, even if
Speaker 12: there is a humanitarian crisis, and there is not, it
Speaker 12: is my right and my duty to prioritize the Kiffeta
Speaker 12: Bibas over any Gazan babies. Kiffitabebas is a one year
Speaker 12: old who is being held hostage along with the baby's parents,
Speaker 12: So that's what she's referring to, prioritizing Israeli babies over
Speaker 12: Palestinian babies. Very little AID has made it into Palestine,
Speaker 12: and perhaps nothing captures what the US and Israel actually are.
Speaker 12: Then a picture that has been making the rounds on
Speaker 12: social media recently. It's a photograph showing US AID drops
Speaker 12: and Israeli airstrikes targeting civilian areas in northern Gaza, happening
Speaker 12: at the same time. Falling on the rubble of destroyed buildings.
Speaker 12: The AID and to the airstrikes dropping at the same
Speaker 12: moment is dystopian and beyond fucked up. Since October seventh,
Speaker 12: Israel has also shut off entry of food, water, and medicine,
Speaker 12: as well as other supplies from entering Gaza, only allowing
Speaker 12: a trickle of AID trucks through two crossings in the south.
Speaker 12: Israel has blamed the starvation that Palestinians are enduring in
Speaker 12: Gaza on UN agencies, saying that they fail to distribute
Speaker 12: supplies piling up at Gaza crossings. The UNRWA, which is
Speaker 12: the largest UN agency in Gaza, says Israel restricts goods
Speaker 12: and imposes cumbersome inspections that slow entry of aid. Also,
Speaker 12: distribution within Gaza has been crippled. UN officials say. They
Speaker 12: say that convoys regularly are turned back by Israeli forces
Speaker 12: and that the military often refuses safe passage amid fighting,
Speaker 12: and that the aid does not get to the people
Speaker 12: that need it the most, often being grabbed from trucks
Speaker 12: by hungry Palestinians en route to the drop off points.
Speaker 12: Recent air drops of AI by the US and other
Speaker 12: countries provide far lower amounts of aid than truck deliveries,
Speaker 12: which have become increasingly more rare, and they're also sometimes dangerous.
Speaker 12: The UNRWA says that Israeli authorities haven't allowed it to
Speaker 12: deliver supplies to the north of Gaza since January twenty third.
Speaker 12: The World Food Organization, which had paused deliveries because of
Speaker 12: safety concerns, said the military forced its first convoy to
Speaker 12: the north in two weeks to turn back on Tuesday.
Speaker 12: Jarine from the Future is here just for this quick update.
Speaker 12: Yesterday Wednesday, Israeli forces hit a food distribution center and
Speaker 12: aid's center in Rapha. The UNRWA said that one of
Speaker 12: their staff members were killed and twenty two others were injured,
Speaker 12: and it said up to sixty people were believed to
Speaker 12: have been working there when it was hit. Those killed
Speaker 12: were said to be a fifteen year old boy and
Speaker 12: four men who were between twenty seven and fifty years old.
Speaker 12: Rafa resident Sami Abu Salim said it's a UNRWA center
Speaker 12: expected to be secure. Some came to work to distribute
Speaker 12: aid to the people in need of food during the
Speaker 12: holy month of Ramadan. Suddenly they were struck by two missiles.
Speaker 12: The UNRWA chief Philippe Lazarini said in a statement that
Speaker 12: it was one of the very few UNWA distribution centers
Speaker 12: that was still operating in Gaza after these five months
Speaker 12: of genocide. He said, this attack comes as food supplies
Speaker 12: are running out, Hunger is widespread and in some areas
Speaker 12: turning into famine. Every day. We share the coordinates of
Speaker 12: all of our facilities across the Gaza Strip with parties
Speaker 12: to the conflict. The Israeli Army received the coordinates, including
Speaker 12: this facility yesterday. Since October, the un r WA says
Speaker 12: at least one hundred and sixty five of its thirteen
Speaker 12: thousand employees in Gaza have been killed and that more
Speaker 12: than one hundred and fifty of its facilities have been
Speaker 12: hit by Israeli forces. Here are the latest casualty figures
Speaker 12: as of March thirteenth, at twelve forty pm in Gaza,
Speaker 12: there are at least thirty one thousand, two hundred and
Speaker 12: seventy two people who have been killed. Of those, there
Speaker 12: are twelve thousand and three hundred children who have been killed,
Speaker 12: as well as eight thousand, four hundred women who have
Speaker 12: been killed. There are more than seventy three thousand and
Speaker 12: twenty four people who have been injured, including eight thousand
Speaker 12: and six hundred and sixty three children who have been
Speaker 12: injured and six thousand, three hundred and twenty seven women
Speaker 12: who have been injured. There are more than eight thousand
Speaker 12: Palestinians who are missing in Gaza. The latest figures from
Speaker 12: the Palestinian Ministry of Health for the occupied West Bank
Speaker 12: is as follows. At least four hundred and thirty two
Speaker 12: people have been killed, including more than one hundred and
Speaker 12: fifteen children. There are more than four thousand, six hundred
Speaker 12: and fifty Palestinians who have been injured in the West Bank.
Speaker 12: In Israel, officials have revised the death toll from October
Speaker 12: seventh from one thousand, four hundred and five to one
Speaker 12: one thousand, one hundred and thirty nine. As far as
Speaker 12: the injured go, in Israel, there are at least eight thousand,
Speaker 12: seven hundred and thirty people who have been injured, according
Speaker 12: to the latest data from the UN's Office for the
Speaker 12: Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the World Health Organization, as well
Speaker 12: as the Palestinian government. As of February twenty five, Israeli
Speaker 12: attacks have damaged more than half of Gaza's homes, three
Speaker 12: hundred and sixty thousand residential units have been destroyed or damaged.
Speaker 12: There have been three hundred and ninety two educational facilities
Speaker 12: that have been destroyed, including all universities. Twelve out of
Speaker 12: the thirty five hospitals are partially functioning. One hundred and
Speaker 12: thirty two ground water wells have been damaged or destroyed.
Speaker 12: Two hundred and sixty seven places of worship have also
Speaker 12: been destroyed. I really want to emphasize how damaging starvation
Speaker 12: is and famine is. Starvation causes a long lasting damage
Speaker 12: to the body. Large numbers of people in Gaza are
Speaker 12: CCXI experiencing malnutrition. Studies of famines in other countries show
Speaker 12: that famines can have long lasting impacts on people's health
Speaker 12: and even that of their descendants. A new type of
Speaker 12: video has been circulating online from the Raza Strip, footage
Speaker 12: showing families baking quote unquote bread which is made from
Speaker 12: bird seed, eating weeds, and giving newborn babies dat to
Speaker 12: stuck on instead of milk. The Accountability Program director at
Speaker 12: Defense for Children International Palestine said it is unthinkable that
Speaker 12: in twenty twenty four, in a world that produces more
Speaker 12: than enough food for all people. That Palestinian children are
Speaker 12: starving to death. The starvation of children is a hallmark
Speaker 12: of jedocide and a deliberate political choice by Israel, backed
Speaker 12: by the Biden administration. It is complete madness that Israeli
Speaker 12: authorities continue to prohibit and restrict food and other life
Speaker 12: saving supplies to a starving population while the international community stands.
Speaker 12: Palestinians in Gaza started to experience chronic hunger within weeks
Speaker 12: of October seventh. At this point in time, Israeli strikes
Speaker 12: have killed more than thirty thousand Palestinians, and this is
Speaker 12: according to Gaza's Ministry of Health. The death tolls that
Speaker 12: come out of the Palestinian Ministry of Health. They account
Speaker 12: for Palestinians who die at hospitals or whose families report
Speaker 12: their deaths to the ministry. Due to the telecommunications blackout,
Speaker 12: the collapse of the medical system, Israeli ground invasion and
Speaker 12: continued Israeli aerial bombardment, many Palestinians are not able to
Speaker 12: reach hospitals and so this number is likely far far
Speaker 12: greater than it actually is. And as I mentioned, Israeli
Speaker 12: authorities have repeatedly blocked and severely restricted any humanitarian aid
Speaker 12: from entering Gaza. On Tuesday, Israeli forces attacked Palestinians who
Speaker 12: were waiting for aid trucks at the Kuwait roundabout south
Speaker 12: of Gaza City and they killed seven people. Keep in mind,
Speaker 12: this is after what has become known as the Flower Massacre.
Speaker 12: On February twenty ninth, the Israeli Occupation Forces aka the
Speaker 12: IOF killed at least one hundred and eighteen Palestinians who
Speaker 12: were attempting to get aid from a convoy in Gaza City.
Speaker 12: In this Flower massacre. Along with the one hundred and
Speaker 12: eighteen Palestinians who were shot and killed, at least seven
Speaker 12: hundred and fifty additional Palestinians were injured. They were just
Speaker 12: trying to get food from the aid trucks to feed
Speaker 12: their family. The United States recently delivered two air drops
Speaker 12: of aid alongside the Jordanian military into northern Gaza. The
Speaker 12: air drops contained a total of seventy four thousand, eight
Speaker 12: hundred meals, and this was widely criticized as a public
Speaker 12: relations move because the Biden administration is still clearly complicit
Speaker 12: in Israel's genocide of Palestinians. International criminal law prohibits serious atrocities,
Speaker 12: including core crimes of genocide, the crime of aggression, crimes
Speaker 12: against humanity, and war crimes, and provides for individual crime
Speaker 12: responsibility for perpetrators. The crime of genocide constitutes the deliberate
Speaker 12: killing of a large number of people from a particular
Speaker 12: nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that
Speaker 12: nation or group in whole or in part. Genocide can
Speaker 12: result from killing or by creating conditions of life that
Speaker 12: are so unbearable. Intentionally using starvation of civilians as a
Speaker 12: method of warfare is an underlying act of genocide and
Speaker 12: it amounts to a war crime. I've said this before
Speaker 12: on this podcast. I'll say it again, but at this
Speaker 12: point international law means nothing. I mean, it hasn't been
Speaker 12: anything for a long time. Nothing happens with Israel continues
Speaker 12: to break international law. So though that phrase is a
Speaker 12: little empty to me when they are in violation of
Speaker 12: international law, but here we are, and it should be
Speaker 12: noted that starvation of civilians also contributes and is an
Speaker 12: active genocide. I've talked about why this is genocide in
Speaker 12: other episodes, but it's clear act of genocide. What Israel
Speaker 12: is doing to Palestinians and many scholars agree with that. Anyway,
Speaker 12: let's continue. As weeks of blockades on food and other
Speaker 12: aid have turned into months, starvation has reached historic proportions.
Speaker 12: One recent report by the Global Nutrition Cluster, which is
Speaker 12: a United Nations Children's Fund, a UNISEF led partnership of
Speaker 12: humanitarian organizations, It found that in December of twenty twenty three,
Speaker 12: in January of twenty twenty four, nine and ten children
Speaker 12: under the age of two and more than nine and
Speaker 12: ten pregnant and breastfeeding women surveyed had consumed two or
Speaker 12: fewer food groups in the previous day. This situation is
Speaker 12: considered severe food poverty. Nearly two thirds of households were
Speaker 12: eating just once a day, if at all. In the
Speaker 12: northern Gaza Strip, one in six babies and toddlers were
Speaker 12: acutely malnourished. Aid organizations say that these numbers today are
Speaker 12: likely to be far, far worse, and that the rapid
Speaker 12: onset and complexity of Gaza's food crisis is unprecedented. Ted
Speaker 12: Chaiban is the Deputy Executive Director for Humanitarian Action and
Speaker 12: Supply Operations at UNICEF. He said in a recent statement
Speaker 12: the Gaza Strip is poised to witness and explosion in
Speaker 12: preventable child deaths. If the conflict does not end now,
Speaker 12: children's nutrition will continue to plummet, leading to preventable deaths
Speaker 12: or health issues which will affect the children of Gaza
Speaker 12: for the rest of their lives and have potential intergenerational consequences.
Speaker 12: There are nearly two point two million people living in
Speaker 12: the Gaza Strip, nearly half of whom are children. Nearly
Speaker 12: one hundred and sixty million other people worldwide are facing hunger,
Speaker 12: including millions of people in Somalia, Afghanistan and Sudan. The
Speaker 12: short term health consequences of food scarcity have been studied intensively.
Speaker 12: In children, an especially vulnerable group. Severe acute malnutrition can
Speaker 12: lead to muscle wasting, stunted growth, and medical complications including sepsis, meningitis, diarrhea,
Speaker 12: and severe anemia. Worldwide, nearly half of all deaths of
Speaker 12: children less than five years of age are linked to malnutrition.
Speaker 12: A growing body of research is finding that even if
Speaker 12: these children return to normal nutrition levels, a period of
Speaker 12: acute malnutrition can lead to long lasting damage later in life,
Speaker 12: and it may impact future generations. This is one of
Speaker 12: many examples of why Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people
Speaker 12: isn't just about death and the lives they've destroyed and
Speaker 12: the land that they've taken. Israel's genocide is also about
Speaker 12: robbing Palestinians of any livable future, affecting generations of Palestinians
Speaker 12: to come, and they've done this since nineteen forty eight.
Speaker 12: That's why it's no accident when children are targeted by
Speaker 12: the IOF, when they're starving or when they're shot. They
Speaker 12: are murdered as a way to prevent Palestinians from having
Speaker 12: a future or having any hope. We see how the
Speaker 12: IOF shoots children with the intention to kill. There are many,
Speaker 12: many examples of this, but here's a recent example. Two
Speaker 12: children were killed in November in the West Bank. Adam
Speaker 12: Samer Elrul, eight years old, was shot in the head.
Speaker 12: Bazdez uleemn Abu Edwafa, fifteen years old, was shot in
Speaker 12: the chest. These children were both murdered and shot with
Speaker 12: the intention to kill. The Israeli military and border police
Speaker 12: forces have been killing Palestinian children with virtually no recourse
Speaker 12: for accountability for decades. Back in August of twenty twenty three,
Speaker 12: well before October seventh of twenty twenty three, Bill van Esfeld,
Speaker 12: who was the Associate Children's Rights director at Human Rights Watch,
Speaker 12: said Israeli forces are gunning down Palestinian children living under
Speaker 12: occupation with increasing frequency. Unless Israel's allies, particularly the United States,
Speaker 12: pressure israel to change course, more Palestinian children will be killed.
Speaker 12: And that is exactly what has been happening. Many, many
Speaker 12: more Palestinian children have been killed, all preventable. Human Rights
Speaker 12: Watch researchers and documenting four killings that happened interviewed in
Speaker 12: person seven witnesses, nine family members and other residents, lawyers, doctors,
Speaker 12: staff and field workers at Palestinian and Israeli rights groups,
Speaker 12: as well as reviews CCTV footage and videos that were
Speaker 12: posted on social media, as well as statements by Israeli
Speaker 12: security agencies, medical records, and news reports. In all cases
Speaker 12: that they researched, Israeli forces shot the children's upper bodies without,
Speaker 12: according to witnesses, issuing warnings or using common less lethal
Speaker 12: measures like tear gas, concussion grenades, or rubber coated bullets.
Speaker 12: I also want to draw attention to how this genocide
Speaker 12: is also a mass disabling event that will harm an
Speaker 12: entire generation and make them reliant on infrastructure that does
Speaker 12: not physically exist. More than ten children a day lose
Speaker 12: a limb in Gaza, and this is from the source.
Speaker 12: To save the children. At least seventeen thousand children, which
Speaker 12: is one percent of Gaza's overall displaced population of one
Speaker 12: point seven million, have now been orphaned in the Gaza
Speaker 12: strip and the number of children who have been killed
Speaker 12: in Gaza. This number is now reaching thirteen thousand children.
Speaker 12: The number of children reported killed in just four months
Speaker 12: in Gaza is higher than the number of children killed
Speaker 12: in four years of war around the world combined. Let's
Speaker 12: take an ad break and we'll be right back, and
Speaker 12: we are back. In the twenty four hours between Sunday,
Speaker 12: March tenth and Monday, March eleventh, during which the vast
Speaker 12: majority of Americans were busy watching the stupid fucking oscars,
Speaker 12: seven massacres were committed by Israeli occupation forces against families
Speaker 12: in Laza, killing sixty seven Palestinians and injuring one hundred
Speaker 12: and six others. This happened as people were distracted by
Speaker 12: watching this dumb display of nothing. Palestinians are continuing to
Speaker 12: be murdered. And as for where things currently stand right now,
Speaker 12: there are more than one point seven million civilians who
Speaker 12: are trapped in the Dephah, which is Gaza's last place
Speaker 12: of refuge. It's right on the south, on the southern border.
Speaker 12: And this is after Israel kept telling Palestinians to go
Speaker 12: south because of these quote unquote safe zones that were
Speaker 12: clearly not safe at all. A massacre is happening in
Speaker 12: the right now, and the world is silent, and to
Speaker 12: make matters worse, not that they can get any worse.
Speaker 12: Israeli Prime Ministers Benjamin n Yahoo says that he intends
Speaker 12: to press ahead with the invasion of the city of Raphach.
Speaker 12: Joe Biden useless warned that the offensive would be a
Speaker 12: quote red line. But as we know, a slap on
Speaker 12: the wrist for Israel means absolutely nothing, and they continue
Speaker 12: to act with impunity, without any repercussions. When asked on
Speaker 12: Sunday whether Israeli forces would move into Raa, Nan Yahu replied,
Speaker 12: we'll go there. We're not going to leave them. You know,
Speaker 12: I have a red line, and you know what the
Speaker 12: red line is that October seven does not happen again.
Speaker 12: It never happens again. He also dismissed the idea of
Speaker 12: a ceasefire for Ramadan, saying that he would like to
Speaker 12: see another hostage release because without a release, there's not
Speaker 12: going to be a pause in the fighting. And he
Speaker 12: also doubled down on his rejection of the possibility of
Speaker 12: a Palestinian state. He says, the positions that as bows
Speaker 12: are supported by the overwhelming majority of Israelis who say
Speaker 12: to you, after October seventh, we don't want to see
Speaker 12: a Palestinian state. The Israeli people also support my position
Speaker 12: that says that we should resoundingly reject the attempt to
Speaker 12: ram down our throats of Palestinian state. That is something
Speaker 12: they agree on. The evening of Sunday, March tenth was
Speaker 12: also the first day of the holy Muslim month of Ramadan.
Speaker 12: Tarik Ahmad, who is the UK Minister of the State
Speaker 12: responsible for relations to the Middle East, to North Africa
Speaker 12: and the UN, on Monday, he urged Israel to quote
Speaker 12: allow unhindered access to Jerusalem's holy sites during Ramadan. What
Speaker 12: has Israel done since then, you may ask, well, Israel
Speaker 12: has put up a barbed wire fence around the Uxamosque,
Speaker 12: something it hasn't done since nineteen sixty seven. Israel erected
Speaker 12: barbed wire on a fence around the Lions Gate area,
Speaker 12: adjacent to the Uzamosk complex and occupied Eastererusalem. The Jerusalem
Speaker 12: Governor's office itself said in a statement on Monday, this
Speaker 12: is a dangerous precedent that has never occurred since nineteen
Speaker 12: sixty seven. The Lions Gate, also known as Bab al Asabat,
Speaker 12: is located within Jerusalem's Old City and is one of
Speaker 12: the main gates leading to the Uxamosque. Israel clearly aims
Speaker 12: to prevent Palestinians from entering Uximosque during the holy month
Speaker 12: of Ramadan. Israeli forces have also imposed a strict siege
Speaker 12: on the Eluxamosque for the past five months, preventing entry
Speaker 12: into it. On Sunday night, Israeli forces prevented hundreds of
Speaker 12: Palestinians from entering the mosque to perform the Tearawekh, a
Speaker 12: special night of prayers during the holy month of Ramadan.
Speaker 12: They also beat a Palestinian man near Bab al Zehara,
Speaker 12: one of the gates leading to the mosque, before detaining
Speaker 12: him soldiers also reportedly detained an Eluximosque guard from the
Speaker 12: Old City of Jerusalem. Continuing along with the news from
Speaker 12: just this week, on Monday, Israeli forces arrested six Palestinian
Speaker 12: boys from the town of Sailla, northeast of occupied Jerusalem.
Speaker 12: Video footage showed a group of Israeli soldiers tying the
Speaker 12: Palestinians with a rope and dragging them in a humiliating
Speaker 12: manner through the streets of Essoella. You see this in
Speaker 12: this footage. They wrangle them and treat them like fucking cattle.
Speaker 12: Worse than fucking cattle. They're treated worse than animals. And
Speaker 12: the entire world is witnessing this. And what it's absolutely
Speaker 12: sickening to me is that so many Americans would probably
Speaker 12: care more about a dead dog than about a dead Palestinian.
Speaker 12: And if that sentence made you uncomfortable, well it's supposed to.
Speaker 12: Palestinians have not been treated or depicted as human for
Speaker 12: so long that it's just become normal. But it is
Speaker 12: not normal, and Palestinian life matters just as much as
Speaker 12: any other. I want to also take a moment to
Speaker 12: talk about what's happening in the West Bank. According to
Speaker 12: Amnesty International, Israeli forces have unleashed a brutal wave of
Speaker 12: violence against Palestinians and the occupied West Bank in the
Speaker 12: last five months, carrying out unlawful killings, including by using
Speaker 12: lethal force without necessity or disproportionately during protests and arrest raids,
Speaker 12: as well as denying medical assistance to those injured. The
Speaker 12: organization investigated four emblematic cases where Israeli forces used unlawful
Speaker 12: lethal force, three incidents in October and one in November,
Speaker 12: which resulted in the unlawful killing of twenty Palestinians, including
Speaker 12: seven children. Researchers remotely interviewed twelve people, ten of them eyewitnesses,
Speaker 12: including first responders and local residents. The organization's Crisis Evidence
Speaker 12: Lab verified nineteen videos and four photos in examining these
Speaker 12: four incidents. Amnesty International's research also found that Israeli forces
Speaker 12: obstructed medical assistance to people with life threatening wounds, as
Speaker 12: well as attacked those attempting to assist injured Palestinians, including paramedics.
Speaker 12: Since October seventh, Israeli forces have stepped up raids, carrying
Speaker 12: them out almost daily across the occupied West Bank and
Speaker 12: what it describes as search and arrest operations. In one
Speaker 12: recent incident that you may have seen online, Israeli forces
Speaker 12: carried out arraid masquerading as medical staff. In twenty twenty three,
Speaker 12: at least five hundred and seven Palestinians were killed in
Speaker 12: the West Bank, including eighty one children, making it the
Speaker 12: deadliest year for Palestinians since the United Nations Office for
Speaker 12: the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs began recording casualties in two
Speaker 12: thousand five. Erica Guavera Rosas, Amnesty International Director of Global Research,
Speaker 12: Advocacy and Policy, said under the cover of the relentless
Speaker 12: bombardment and atrocity crimes in Gaza, Israeli forces have unleashed
Speaker 12: unlawful lethal force against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank,
Speaker 12: carrying out unlawful killings and displaying a chilling disregard for
Speaker 12: Palestinian lives. These unlawful killings are a blatant violation of
Speaker 12: international human rights law and are committed with impunity in
Speaker 12: the context of maintaining Israel's institutionalized regime of systematic oppression
Speaker 12: and domination over Palestinians. These cases provide shocking evidence of
Speaker 12: the deadly consequences of Israel's unlawful use of force against
Speaker 12: Palestinians in the West Bank. Israeli authorities, including the Israeli
Speaker 12: judicial system, have proven shamefully unwilling to ensure justice for
Speaker 12: Palestinian victims. In this climate of near total impunity, an
Speaker 12: international justice system worth its salt must step in. The
Speaker 12: Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court must investigate these killings
Speaker 12: and injuries as possible war crimes of wilful killing and
Speaker 12: wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury. The situation in
Speaker 12: Palestine and Israel is a litmus test for the legitimacy
Speaker 12: and reputation of the Court. It cannot afford to fail it.
Speaker 12: Since October seventh, across the West Bank, Israeli security forces
Speaker 12: use of unlawful force during law enforcement operations has been unrelenting,
Speaker 12: sowing fear and intimidation among entire communities. It has also
Speaker 12: been used to disperse rallies and protests held in solidarity
Speaker 12: with Gaza and demanding the release of Palestinian prisoners and detainees.
Speaker 12: Between October seventh and December thirty one of twenty twenty three,
Speaker 12: two hundred and ninety nine Palestinians were killed, marking a
Speaker 12: fifty percent increase compared to the first nine months of
Speaker 12: the year. At least sixty one to more Palestinians, including
Speaker 12: thirteen children, have been killed so far in twenty twenty
Speaker 12: four as of the end of January, according to the
Speaker 12: numbers reported by OCHA. Israel has a well documented track
Speaker 12: record of using excessive and often lethal force to stifle
Speaker 12: descent and enforce its system of apartheid against Palestinians, leading
Speaker 12: to a historic pattern of unlawful killings committed with impunity.
Speaker 12: In one illustrative case investigated by Amnesty International, Israeli military
Speaker 12: and border police forces use excessive force during a thirty
Speaker 12: hour long raid on nous Chem's refugee camp on October nineteenth.
Speaker 12: During the operation, Israeli forces killed thirteen Palestinians, including six children,
Speaker 12: four of them under the age of sixteen, as well
Speaker 12: as arrested fifteen people. Israeli military sources quoted in media
Speaker 12: reports said that one Israeli border police officer was killed
Speaker 12: and n and nine were injured after an improvised explosive
Speaker 12: device was thrown at them by Palestinians. Residents told Amnesty
Speaker 12: International that During the operation, Israeli soldiers stormed more than
Speaker 12: forty residential homes, destroying personal belongings and drilling holes in
Speaker 12: the walls for sniper outposts. Water and electricity to the
Speaker 12: camp was cut off, and soldiers used bulldozers to destroy
Speaker 12: public roads, electricity networks, and water infrastructure. Among those killed
Speaker 12: during the October nineteenth raid was fifteen year old Taha Muhammad,
Speaker 12: who was Raeli forces shot dead in front of his
Speaker 12: house when he came out to check whether Israeli forces
Speaker 12: had left the area. Taha was unarmed and posed no
Speaker 12: threat to the soldiers at the time he was shot,
Speaker 12: and this is based on eyewitness testimony and videos that
Speaker 12: were reviewed by Amnesty International. A video filmed by one
Speaker 12: of his sisters and verified by Amnesty's Crisis Evidence Lab
Speaker 12: chose Taha walking on the street, peaking to ch for
Speaker 12: the presence of soldiers, and then collapsing on the street
Speaker 12: outside of his house after the sound of three gunshots.
Speaker 12: Fatima Taha's sister told Amnesty International they did not give
Speaker 12: him a chance. They did not give him a chance.
Speaker 12: In an instant, my brother was eliminated. Three bullets were
Speaker 12: fired without any mercy. The first bullet hit him in
Speaker 12: the leg, the second in his stomach, the third in
Speaker 12: his eye. There were no confrontations, there was no conflict.
Speaker 12: An eyewitness told Amnesty International that when Toha's father, Ibrahim Mohammad,
Speaker 12: then attempted to carry his injured son to safety, Israeli
Speaker 12: forces shot him in the back. A verified video filmed
Speaker 12: by one of Taha's sisters immediately after the shooting chose
Speaker 12: Taha's father lying on the ground next to him before
Speaker 12: limping away. My father raised his hands, showing the soldiers
Speaker 12: that he had nothing in them. He just wanted to
Speaker 12: take his son. They shot him with one bulle and
Speaker 12: my father fell next to Taha. I want to mention
Speaker 12: that one example, but many, many more have happened since
Speaker 12: then and before then. Protests and solidarity with Palestinians and
Speaker 12: Razza have been held frequently across the occupied West Bank
Speaker 12: since October seventh. Some protesters have been seen throwing stones
Speaker 12: in response to the presence or forceful intervention of the
Speaker 12: Israeli forces. The iof's use of lethal force in response
Speaker 12: to rock throwing is not new, even if the rock
Speaker 12: throwing is done by children. In theory, lethal force and
Speaker 12: law enforcement can only be used when there is an
Speaker 12: eminent threat to life. Its use is not a proportionate
Speaker 12: response to stone throwing. In another egregious case that happened
Speaker 12: on October thirteenth in Tokudam, two eyewitnesses described to Amnesty
Speaker 12: International how Israeli forces stationed at a military watch tower
Speaker 12: both at one of the main entrances to the town,
Speaker 12: as well as on the roof of a nearby home,
Speaker 12: and then they opened fire on a crowd about leekast
Speaker 12: eighty unarmed Palestinians who were peacefully demonstrating in solidarity with Gaza.
Speaker 12: Two journalists who were at the scene separately told Amnesty
Speaker 12: International that they saw Israeli forces firing two tear gas
Speaker 12: canisters at the crowd and shortly afterwards opening live fire
Speaker 12: at them without any warning shots. The two journalists saw
Speaker 12: four people being shot and injured as they tried to
Speaker 12: run away from the shooting.
Speaker 5: A few minutes.
Speaker 12: Later, Israeli forces then opened fire in the direction of
Speaker 12: the journalists, even though they were both wearing vests clearly
Speaker 12: marked as press. They hid behind a wall along with
Speaker 12: three children and had to remain there for about two
Speaker 12: hours as the operation continued. During this time, they also
Speaker 12: witnessed a Palestinian man who was riding past them on
Speaker 12: a bike being shot by an Israeli soldier. One of
Speaker 12: the journalists also saw another demonstrator being shot in the head.
Speaker 12: She described how the victim was suddenly shot and fell
Speaker 12: to the ground. The obstruction of medical assistants by Israeli
Speaker 12: forces during operations like this across Palestine is unfortunately a
Speaker 12: routine practice an Amnesty International has documented this for years,
Speaker 12: saying it is a part of israel system of apartheid.
Speaker 12: Under international law, Israeli forces have an obligation to ensure
Speaker 12: anyone injured by their forces is able to access medical treatment.
Speaker 12: Amnesty International investigated five occasions where the Israeli forces hindered
Speaker 12: or prevented those who were seriously injured in demonstrations and
Speaker 12: raids from receiving critical medical assistance. They also shot at
Speaker 12: Palestinians trying to help, including medics tending to the wounded.
Speaker 12: During the raid I mentioned earlier on Nouschem's on October nineteenth,
Speaker 12: three eyewitnesses, including a paramedic on the scene, said two
Speaker 12: ambulances were stopped at the entrance of the camp and
Speaker 12: prevented from reaching the injured. The witnesses said the residents
Speaker 12: were forced to transport the wounded to a hospital in
Speaker 12: private cars. Since October seventh, according to the UN, more
Speaker 12: than four hundred Palestinians have been killed, one hundred and
Speaker 12: seven of those being children in the West Bank. I
Speaker 12: also want to mention the settler attacks on Palestinians, not
Speaker 12: just by the IOF, because these settler attacks have also
Speaker 12: become routine. Settlers have burned cars and houses, blockaded roads,
Speaker 12: damaged electricity networks, seas farmland, severed irrigation lines, attacked people
Speaker 12: in their fields and olive groves, and killed people, all
Speaker 12: without repercussion. The UN has recorded five hundred and seventy
Speaker 12: three attacks by settlers in the West Bank since October seventh,
Speaker 12: with Israeli forces the IOF accompanying them half of the time.
Speaker 12: At least nine people have been killed by settlers and
Speaker 12: three hundred and eighty two have been killed by the IOF.
Speaker 12: According to these numbers by the UN, human rights groups
Speaker 12: in Israel and the West Bank allege along pattern of
Speaker 12: violence that has been enabled by the IOF. The army, however,
Speaker 12: of course, denies this. Human rights groups in Israel and
Speaker 12: the West Bank allege a long pattern of violence by
Speaker 12: settlers that is enabled by the occupation forces. The Army
Speaker 12: of course denies this. As I mentioned earlier, the IOF
Speaker 12: has a long history of using unnecessary lethal force, and
Speaker 12: we're seeing that increasingly happen in the West Bank. I
Speaker 12: want to end this episode with a quote from the
Speaker 12: Israeli group be se them. They told the BBC. Since
Speaker 12: the beginning of the war in the Gaza Strip, Israel
Speaker 12: has continued to implement a lethal open fire policy in
Speaker 12: the West Bank. Of the almost four hundred Palestinians killed
Speaker 12: by Israeli forces since October seventh, many did not pose
Speaker 12: a threat at the level that would justify the use
Speaker 12: of lethal force. With extremely rare exceptions that usually involve
Speaker 12: low ranking soldiers, no one is brought to justice for
Speaker 12: the killing of Palestinians. This reflects Israel's profound disregard for
Speaker 12: the lives and bodies of Palestinians.
Speaker 4: And that is.
Speaker 12: Our episode for today. As usual, Please please keep talking
Speaker 12: about Palestine, Please keep raising awareness about this ongoing genocide
Speaker 12: that's happening in both Gaza and the West Bank. And yeah, just.
Speaker 15: They'll stop talking about it. Pre Palestine.
Speaker 5: Hello, and welcome to It Can Happen Here podcast about
Speaker 5: things falling apart and people putting them back together. I
Speaker 5: am back after us for a lengthy court battle. Have
Speaker 5: been allowed to return to the podcast, which I'm very
Speaker 5: grateful for. And I'm joined today by John and Haval,
Speaker 5: two friends of mine who volunteer out here in a
Speaker 5: come a lot, a lot more than I do. And
Speaker 5: we're going to explain some developments sort have happened, give
Speaker 5: you an update on the situation here and let you
Speaker 5: know how you could help soon. Welcome to the show,
Speaker 5: both of you.
Speaker 4: Hello, thank you, good to be back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, welcome back.
Speaker 5: If you'd like to just introduce yourselves, like your name,
Speaker 5: like whatever role you play out here, pronouns, and any
Speaker 5: affiliation with any organization you feel is relevant.
Speaker 7: So my name is John. I'm someone that lives in
Speaker 7: the area. This situation just kind of showed up in
Speaker 7: my backyard. I was kind of forced into it rather
Speaker 7: than volunteered into it, and I've been dealing with it
Speaker 7: NonStop since the beginning. Yeah, I'm one of the main
Speaker 7: sets of booths on the ground.
Speaker 16: Have all I used, they them pronouns, and I organized
Speaker 16: with direct Action Drumline and Zene Distro doing a lot
Speaker 16: of mutual aid, which is how I got involved in
Speaker 16: all this, and also with Alo Gelato helping out on
Speaker 16: the ground since the beginning with John, pretty much just
Speaker 16: a little after John started.
Speaker 5: So yeah, so that's what nearly six months, so if
Speaker 5: you're not counting me, yeah, yeah, wow yeah.
Speaker 7: So yeah, it started in May and then it stopped
Speaker 7: during the summertime. It picked up again in September, and
Speaker 7: we've been dealing with it NonStop.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: People have heard briefly from John's father Sam in our
Speaker 5: May episodes about title forty two, which we did. Yeah,
Speaker 5: it seems like forever ago. Also, it doesn't seem like
Speaker 5: very long ago. It's just one big, weird collapsing of time.
Speaker 5: So last time we spoke, last time I spoke with Haval,
Speaker 5: we had this situation where we had three distinct concrete
Speaker 5: camps right adjacent to gaps in the wall, which volunteers
Speaker 5: were servicing with food, water, warm blankets, were building shelters,
Speaker 5: and we've heard a lot about those camps. Does one
Speaker 5: of you guys want to explain how things have changed
Speaker 5: since then, and really particular in the last six weeks.
Speaker 7: So yeah, it's changed quite radically. Actually, So between the
Speaker 7: months of September and December, we were servicing these three
Speaker 7: camps kind of more or less in our immediate area.
Speaker 7: It was pretty straightforward. Our routine would consist of stopping
Speaker 7: to each camp two times a day and feeding people,
Speaker 7: providing them with all of the different things that the
Speaker 7: US government was not and I kind of wish things
Speaker 7: were simpler like they were back then. Yeah, So at
Speaker 7: the end of the month of December, Secretary Blincoln made
Speaker 7: a visit to Mexico, and I suspect that he pressured
Speaker 7: the Mexican government to police our border for US. One
Speaker 7: of the immediate changes that we saw as a result
Speaker 7: of that was the foundation of two Mexican National Guard
Speaker 7: camps at two of the gaps that feed into those
Speaker 7: camps in our area, and that has basically stopped any
Speaker 7: people coming through those areas. This has not made any
Speaker 7: less people come into the country. Actually, the numbers have
Speaker 7: been fairly consistent. It's just that people have been forced
Speaker 7: to go in through other areas. So there have been
Speaker 7: many many new oads that have popped up west of US.
Speaker 7: We have to drive quite a bit further into towards
Speaker 7: San Diego to go and service those areas, the main
Speaker 7: one being Sliders, which we're seeing about two hundred people
Speaker 7: come in sometimes in a night. It's not a good scene.
Speaker 7: Whereas those three ones that we were originally servicing had
Speaker 7: dumpsters and porta potties at the very least.
Speaker 4: They still do. They still.
Speaker 5: There exactly, Yeah, moving at the speed of government.
Speaker 7: The new ones don't have that, and people are having
Speaker 7: to spend Well, how long were the people there most
Speaker 7: during that crazy, crazy time, just like a few days ago.
Speaker 7: I think they were up They were there for up
Speaker 7: to like nineteen hours.
Speaker 5: Yeah, going on a day right now. Yeah, because we
Speaker 5: first so to backtrack to people, like we heard from
Speaker 5: a member of the community that there have been people
Speaker 5: seen held there right at Sliders, And then we went
Speaker 5: out there and we kept finding like warm fires, like
Speaker 5: where people have clearly been there and built fires. We
Speaker 5: could see where people are scavenged to brush, and a.
Speaker 4: Lot of documents ripped up around there. Yeah, the mittill.
Speaker 5: Signs, yeah, yeah, all these signs, and so we were
Speaker 5: able to use that to suppose that was a place
Speaker 5: where people were and then I guess was it. Eventually
Speaker 5: someone stayed the night there and that was what allowed us,
Speaker 5: or we bumped into people there. Someone bumped into people there.
Speaker 7: Well, we have an acquaintance that's been very helpful towards
Speaker 7: the cause that lives just close by to there, and
Speaker 7: he's kind of one of the one that sounded the alarm.
Speaker 5: And from there, it's like you said, it's a lot
Speaker 5: more difficult, right, Like it's probably a thirty minute drive.
Speaker 5: It's a steep off road, so like when it rains,
Speaker 5: it's hard to get to. So that makes it more
Speaker 5: difficult for us to provide stuff for people there. And like,
Speaker 5: I guess people should realize that we didn't find out
Speaker 5: about this because Border Patrol called us and said, like, hey,
Speaker 5: there are people here without food, water, don't do that.
Speaker 5: But yeah, that's not a thing that they do.
Speaker 16: We actually did one. Another volunteer, Brendan and I were
Speaker 16: driving out and we stopped on the road. I don't
Speaker 16: think you were with us, John, but we started talking
Speaker 16: to one of the agents because there was two or
Speaker 16: a group of people from I think Egypt. That was
Speaker 16: the day everyone did the math exodus from one seven seven.
Speaker 16: So we stopped and we're talking to one of the agents,
Speaker 16: and he did slip that there was another camp. He
Speaker 16: didn't name it, didn't say where it was, he just
Speaker 16: said it was that way. And that was around the
Speaker 16: same time that Morgan had mentioned it to us. So
Speaker 16: it's you know, we kind of pulled it out of
Speaker 16: this agent because we were talking very nonchalantly with him
Speaker 16: and he was being generally nice.
Speaker 5: But yeah, they don't tell us about this stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and we have to find him myself. And what I
Speaker 5: think that brings up is that there are potentially more,
Speaker 5: right we think, no, for a fact, we know that
Speaker 5: there are more. And like I think it's obviously people
Speaker 5: and people think of California and they think of LA
Speaker 5: and they think of San Diego and they think of
Speaker 5: the beach and like pleasant weather. But can you explain,
Speaker 5: like it's been really cold out here and pretty miserable
Speaker 5: right with the wet weather we've been having.
Speaker 7: This is a pretty unknown part of southern California. You know,
Speaker 7: we're a mountainous region just just east of San Diego,
Speaker 7: within San Diego County. It's uh, I mean it's not
Speaker 7: it's not crazy high. It's you know, it's about on
Speaker 7: an average of three thousand or four thousand feet above
Speaker 7: sea level. But yeah, it gets very windy over here,
Speaker 7: gets very unpleasant. It often drops down to freezing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's if you're out there all night and
Speaker 5: you have any shelter and any anyway to get warm,
Speaker 5: and you're potentially wet from crossing a river or crossing
Speaker 5: a stream that often pops up in the desert. Can
Speaker 5: be a really miserable situation. So, like, it's important that
Speaker 5: these people receive help. And right now it's just through
Speaker 5: word of mouth and the local community that we're able
Speaker 5: to find them right and give them that help.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So going forward, like we've seen like this movement
Speaker 5: of migration west, what does that mean for the ability
Speaker 5: of volunteers to provide services to migrants and what does
Speaker 5: it mean for the safety Like you said that the
Speaker 5: push factors haven't changed, right, So people are still coming here.
Speaker 5: They still have things to get away from that lead
Speaker 5: them to come here, but they're not coming the same
Speaker 5: way where we could so easily help them in these
Speaker 5: three concrete sites. So like what does that mean.
Speaker 7: Well, it's takes a lot more time out of our
Speaker 7: day just to drive there. For one, the main one
Speaker 7: sliders is up a very shitty road. Yeah.
Speaker 16: So I think they call it sliders because it's so
Speaker 16: muddy and slidy over there when you're.
Speaker 5: Trying to be Yeah, I put someone's head into the
Speaker 5: roof of my truck driving that's so long ago.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And you know, we're not the only ones that
Speaker 7: are displeased with this. It's more it makes the life
Speaker 7: for the Border patrol more difficult, makes life for the
Speaker 7: emergency medical services more difficult, and of course it makes
Speaker 7: life or the migrants more miserable. And the owner of
Speaker 7: the property and the owners of the property in which
Speaker 7: they're hosting these uh you know, detaining these migrants.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we I think if every single one has been
Speaker 5: on private property so far, right, and I think we
Speaker 5: spoke to most of the property owners at this point,
Speaker 5: and it just seems to come out of the blue
Speaker 5: at them.
Speaker 4: It's a very.
Speaker 7: Strange permission has never sought.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think one of them is suing the
Speaker 5: Border Patrol for it. But take months. But obviously it
Speaker 5: does have an impact on a landscape as well. People
Speaker 5: understand to be a coal so they're cutting down whatever
Speaker 5: they can to burn to make shelter, to make their
Speaker 5: experience a little bit less miserable.
Speaker 7: So that's the Yeah, that's that's kind of a bargaining
Speaker 7: tool that we try and use when trying to convince
Speaker 7: the property owners to allow us to build shelters over there.
Speaker 7: It's just to try and convince them that it'll be
Speaker 7: good for them to have migrants not be in a
Speaker 7: position to be forced to have to cut down the
Speaker 7: vegetation on their land and trash their land, and uh,
Speaker 7: you know, by allowing us to build shelters on their
Speaker 7: property and give firewood to the to the migrants that
Speaker 7: are being held on their property, it's better for them
Speaker 7: in the long run.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 16: And the first time we went out there, they had
Speaker 16: created these shelters by just ripping brush and creating these
Speaker 16: like semi circles that were maybe about a.
Speaker 7: Foot or some of them are very impressive.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 16: Yeah, we had two three feet high and it was nice,
Speaker 16: you know, and enclosed, so they had some sort of shelter.
Speaker 16: But yeah, they had to rip all that from the
Speaker 16: vegetation around the area, which just ruined the ecosystem there,
Speaker 16: I'm sure.
Speaker 5: Yeah. And it must tear up your hands as well,
Speaker 5: like those of slowny bushes and stuffy Yeah, it's not
Speaker 5: desirable for anyone talking of things aren't desirable. We unforced
Speaker 5: you have to take an advertising break, so we will
Speaker 5: do that. Hit some stuff that you don't need, all right,
Speaker 5: we're bank. Those are some products and services. Now we're
Speaker 5: going to talk about the way John being very local
Speaker 5: to hocumber right, how it is like organizing in a
Speaker 5: rural community, and the way that obviously you have people
Speaker 5: of very disparate political leanings in the area, and like
Speaker 5: how you've managed to like phrase what we're doing and
Speaker 5: to organize in such a way that the very least
Speaker 5: people aren't like actively pissed off at you.
Speaker 7: Yeah. So, first of all, I'm a Quaker, come from
Speaker 7: a Quaker family, and first and foremost I am doing
Speaker 7: this for religious reasons, and I like to try and
Speaker 7: remind people of that. So when people try and come
Speaker 7: at me with anti immigrants sentiment, I just try and
Speaker 7: remind them that you know, this is this is basically
Speaker 7: what you're supposed to do according to the Bible, and
Speaker 7: you know, to hate on any of these people is
Speaker 7: very Unchristian. And when I do so, it's very hard
Speaker 7: for them to come at me with any of that stuff.
Speaker 7: But still yes, for the most part, the community over
Speaker 7: here have not been very helpful towards They have not
Speaker 7: been very enthused with all these migrants coming in, and
Speaker 7: you know, they've been very regrettably misinformed about it all.
Speaker 7: They're still looking at various crazy sources for their news,
Speaker 7: like YouTube channels and stuff like that, and it's kind
Speaker 7: of kind of hard to believe. It's like, you guys
Speaker 7: live in the area. You can just drive straight out there.
Speaker 7: You can talk to me a person that you guys know,
Speaker 7: Yet you still choose to look up all these various
Speaker 7: whack jobs on YouTube.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we've had something of a problem with the YouTube people. Right,
Speaker 5: there's a whole info a whole ecosystem of right wing
Speaker 5: YouTubers that I think probably most folks don't know about,
Speaker 5: even if you take an interest in other like right
Speaker 5: wing conspiracy stuff, as a whole ecosystem of right wing
Speaker 5: border YouTubers who have been I.
Speaker 16: Mean, describe what you've seen, right, We've had like a
Speaker 16: new right wing fascist out every day. It seems there's
Speaker 16: Oreo Express, Anthony Aguero has been out here.
Speaker 7: JLR investigator JLR, Roger Ogden here the other day. Classic
Speaker 7: it's kind of calmed down though in the last couple
Speaker 7: of days. But there was a period in late February
Speaker 7: where it seemed like they were coming out every single day.
Speaker 5: Yeah, just a different guy in a different lifted jeep.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly just after that whole border what was it that.
Speaker 5: Take back our Border?
Speaker 16: Yeah, I got them all rouled up to come out.
Speaker 7: Actually, what really set them off to be aware of
Speaker 7: all of this is when Fox did their big piece
Speaker 7: out here and they were out here for multiple days. Yeah,
Speaker 7: that's what kind of like turned on the tap.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's very common anyway you go on the border,
Speaker 5: right Like Fox has a border reporter, Bill Malugan. People
Speaker 5: will be familiar with Bill Malugan from publishing a story
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty which suggested the police officer had a
Speaker 5: tampon used tampon put in his Starbucks coffee, which was
Speaker 5: demonstrably false and didn't really very much look like a tampon.
Speaker 5: You can google more about that if that's interesting to you.
Speaker 5: But like someone who preps should have lost a genalistic
Speaker 5: credibility at that point. It's now doing border reporting for
Speaker 5: and this is like when I speak to people all
Speaker 5: along the border right here, Arizona, Texas. Yeah, the stuff
Speaker 5: that Fox puts out very strongly correlates with anti migrant sentiment,
Speaker 5: both both locally and with like these these folks coming
Speaker 5: in and streaming and they're always asking for donations, right,
Speaker 5: Like it's not a then they're they're not like advert
Speaker 5: funded or like publicly funded like that, they're funded by
Speaker 5: donations for what.
Speaker 16: Yeah, well, I forget the channel there. Aguero is on
Speaker 16: that he's constantly asking for the nations and like, oh,
Speaker 16: thank you, you just dropped ten dollars, so thank you
Speaker 16: for the five spot.
Speaker 3: Other of like they're sitting.
Speaker 4: In his car.
Speaker 7: That's that's what they're grifters, That's that's what they're out
Speaker 7: there for. Every It seems like a third of their
Speaker 7: broadcast time is spent asking for donations, right yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like a like a charity stream, except it's
Speaker 5: the opposite of charity, I guess exactly, So pay me
Speaker 5: to do hateful things streams. Yeah, And I think like
Speaker 5: that as we get as we look between now and November,
Speaker 5: I think it's really important that like the border will
Speaker 5: be a topic that people who never come to the
Speaker 5: border will argue about constantly between now and November, right,
Speaker 5: Fox News will have reporting on it, NBC will have
Speaker 5: reporting on it, like and both of them will have
Speaker 5: reporting that isn't anchored on what we see every single
Speaker 5: day out here, which is whatever actual people from all
Speaker 5: over the world who are having a very difficult time
Speaker 5: right here and need a help, right and we're doing
Speaker 5: what we can to help them. So I guess what,
Speaker 5: Like people who are listening to this will in the
Speaker 5: next I don't know how long it is to November,
Speaker 5: what six months, seven eight months, they'll have conversations with
Speaker 5: their family members, with their friends, with people in bars, whatever,
Speaker 5: regarding the border. What do you think they should know about,
Speaker 5: like what we're seeing and like what the because there's
Speaker 5: this whole border invasion narrative, right, and then like this
Speaker 5: is not an invasion. We were just out joking with
Speaker 5: some people and helping them get the firewood prepped. Like
Speaker 5: these people know threat.
Speaker 7: I think people often make the mistake of considering this
Speaker 7: issue to be a political issue. It really is just
Speaker 7: a humanitarian issue. Vast majority of the people that I've
Speaker 7: talked to have very legitimate reasons for needing to come
Speaker 7: into this country, whether they're from Ecuador, you know, you
Speaker 7: know the situation over there recently there were gangsters that
Speaker 7: took over a TV station, Or in Guatemala, where I
Speaker 7: spoke to a man who told me that his children
Speaker 7: with college degrees can make enough family money to feed
Speaker 7: their families. Or even in Afghanistan where people have literally
Speaker 7: had the Taliban threatened their families lives.
Speaker 4: The same with and the Iatola escaping.
Speaker 7: A Kurdish people in Turkey. I mean, the list goes on.
Speaker 7: Or you know climate refugees like the Mauritanians that we
Speaker 7: just spoke with earlier. Yes, they're they're coming and they
Speaker 7: have really reasonable grounds for asylum over here.
Speaker 16: Yeah, and it wouldn't be such and then quote unquote
Speaker 16: invasion if they were just allowed to walk through the
Speaker 16: port of entry. This it's this process is so silly
Speaker 16: because they crossed. They could just do this all at
Speaker 16: the port of entry. They really could be the policies
Speaker 16: just choose not to do this.
Speaker 7: Yeah, but that's the part that really doesn't make sense,
Speaker 7: is like we're letting them in anyways, Why do we
Speaker 7: need to make their lives so uncomfortable you.
Speaker 5: Know and dangerous?
Speaker 10: Right?
Speaker 4: Dangerous?
Speaker 5: I mean, John, you and I were on a water
Speaker 5: drop maybe two months ago, now, six weeks ago in
Speaker 5: slightly west of here, right, Yeah, do you remember we
Speaker 5: were driving down to where we're going to get off
Speaker 5: and we met that family from Guinea. There was like,
Speaker 5: do you want to just describe what you saw because
Speaker 5: I think it was like, at least for me, that
Speaker 5: was like I've seen it a lot, but it still
Speaker 5: emotionally affected me.
Speaker 7: So that Yeah, there was a there was a Guinean
Speaker 7: woman and her kid. I think he might have been
Speaker 7: like what four or something three three? Yeah, and there
Speaker 7: was also a Nigerian woman and you know, Nigerian speak
Speaker 7: English and Guineans speak friend and they weren't really able
Speaker 7: to communicate with one another, and yet they were still
Speaker 7: traveling side by side because they they just teamed up
Speaker 7: because they were in a desperate situation together. One of
Speaker 7: them was was she and sandals.
Speaker 5: One of them didn't have shoes at all.
Speaker 7: Didn't have shoes at all. Right, Yeah, yeah, it's six
Speaker 7: weeks is a long time, you know what you're doing?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well you see horrible things every day.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's been a very eventful time. Yeah, every day
Speaker 7: feels like a news story. Yeah, And they just kind
Speaker 7: of sat on the side of the road and were
Speaker 7: out of breath, and they were just basically asking us
Speaker 7: to help them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I remember the little girl, but because we were
Speaker 5: obviously concerned with the lady who didn't have shoes and
Speaker 5: trying to help like bandage her feet and stuff. But
Speaker 5: then I remember the little girls wasn't saying anything, and
Speaker 5: I suddenly realized, Oh, this little girl is probably very cold.
Speaker 5: She was like, you know, early, like mildly hypotheromic. Yeah,
Speaker 5: so I had her wrapped up in a little mile
Speaker 5: blanket with me to warm her up. And it's just,
Speaker 5: I know it just for one reason or another, that
Speaker 5: was a moment where I was like, why on earth
Speaker 5: are we doing this to a three year old? Like
Speaker 5: what possible reason could there be? Yeah, this three year
Speaker 5: old girl to have hypothermia here in like the richest
Speaker 5: country in the world.
Speaker 7: Who could possibly agree that this is a good thing?
Speaker 5: Yes, and yeah.
Speaker 7: Or another experience I had in the beginning of February
Speaker 7: where there was this Colombian man who was in tears
Speaker 7: who approached me and told me that his daughter was
Speaker 7: very very ill, and he dragged me over to a
Speaker 7: porta potty and she was there bundled up with like
Speaker 7: nine blankets or something, not really responding to my questions.
Speaker 7: He was trying to contact nine to one one, but
Speaker 7: the responder on a nine to one one or the
Speaker 7: dispatcher didn't speak Spanish, so I had to communicate with
Speaker 7: them and navigate the whole situation. Turns out she did
Speaker 7: have hypothermia. Yeah, but the ambulance would not take him
Speaker 7: along with the mother and the child to the hospital.
Speaker 7: So again it's another case of family separation. Who knows
Speaker 7: what might have happened. They would have gotten processed separately.
Speaker 7: He could have ended up in Louisiana and she could
Speaker 7: have ended up in Riverside or somewhere.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And at that point, once again, it's not the
Speaker 5: government or your taxes that were pay for those people
Speaker 5: to be reunified. Right, that's work that's done by NGOs
Speaker 5: in modern tree organizations exactly. Yeah, despite the massive amount
Speaker 5: of money we spend on And we were just talking
Speaker 5: the other day about how they the architectural marvel of
Speaker 5: sections of the border wall right where they've poured concrete
Speaker 5: at like a forty five plus degree angle and spent
Speaker 5: millions of dollars for every yard of that, and we
Speaker 5: don't have enough money to give this three year old
Speaker 5: girl a blanket or to get that family back together.
Speaker 7: It's pathetic, it's it's yeah, it's mind boggling.
Speaker 4: Yeah, even today with that dude from Brazil.
Speaker 16: He came up to me when we first got here
Speaker 16: there was starving, wanted food, water, and he.
Speaker 4: Was like, I'm sick, I have a fever.
Speaker 16: So I hooked him up with some cold medicine that
Speaker 16: we had in our medkit, and then later when we
Speaker 16: went back to do the second round of feeding, he
Speaker 16: got more food and he was like, thank you so much.
Speaker 4: We're starving.
Speaker 16: We were told to when we were dropped off to
Speaker 16: wait in the mountains at six pm to six am,
Speaker 16: so they were just hadn't really I don't know if
Speaker 16: they were on the American side yet or how that worked.
Speaker 16: Didn't really describe it, but had to wait in the
Speaker 16: mountains before crossing, and so people are getting sick out there.
Speaker 16: We ran into that dude with the dog bite on
Speaker 16: at one seven seven. He was just so we we
Speaker 16: always go check this one camp because there hasn't been
Speaker 16: out since Squadi and Snal have put their camp on
Speaker 16: the other side, there hadn't been a whole lot of
Speaker 16: people crossing in this area, but we go check it periodically.
Speaker 16: In one morning, yeah, we saw this man hobbling towards
Speaker 16: us as we're driving down the road with a stick,
Speaker 16: and we're like, why is he walking like this? Pulled
Speaker 16: over and he was bitten by a dog. He said
Speaker 16: he went to take a drink of water and some
Speaker 16: dogs attacked him, two dogs, I think.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he'd described it to the wolf, right wolf. Yeah.
Speaker 16: Yeah, So we called the MS and they picked them
Speaker 16: up and took them to the hospitals.
Speaker 5: Right, big, you hadn't been there. It's a long way
Speaker 5: to walk with a dog bite your leg.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And who knows, Bordovich might not even have ems
Speaker 4: them out. They might have just tried to process them
Speaker 4: with the dog bite. Yeah, could have gotten infected or infectoris. Yeah.
Speaker 7: But just to go back on the mutual aid question
Speaker 7: that you had earlier, it hasn't all been negative. It's
Speaker 7: actually been a really great experience in which I've met
Speaker 7: really great people from all kinds of walks of life
Speaker 7: who have just joined together because they see a problem
Speaker 7: and know that they're the only they're the only ones
Speaker 7: that can make a difference. And it is a sure
Speaker 7: easy way to be really important and make a difference
Speaker 7: in other people's lives. You don't really need to have
Speaker 7: much more than a good heart and a willingness to work.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like, I think we should talk about that more
Speaker 5: because not that some of us had some prior life experience,
Speaker 5: right working with refugees or migration, But I think most
Speaker 5: of us just were people who were like, get, this
Speaker 5: isn't right, and I am able to help, and so
Speaker 5: I'm going to help. So can you talk about like
Speaker 5: how people can help? And then, like you said, I
Speaker 5: think I've actually got a lot out of this, and
Speaker 5: I feel more affirmed in my belief that we can
Speaker 5: look out after each other without the need to control
Speaker 5: each other, and like we don't necessarily need people with
Speaker 5: guns and badges to create a society that cares for
Speaker 5: people who need taken care of. And so perhaps you
Speaker 5: could describe like how people can help, and then what
Speaker 5: it is that you've got out of this that keeps
Speaker 5: you wanting to do this.
Speaker 7: Well. First of all, Yeah, we don't have a clear
Speaker 7: structure of authoritative structure over here. We take ideas as
Speaker 7: a collective. Different people have contributed different things. There's a
Speaker 7: woman that really nailed down the PB and J making system,
Speaker 7: and we've all just been following her lead. Some people
Speaker 7: came up with the idea of having a cell phone
Speaker 7: charging station that was you, and it's just the list
Speaker 7: goes on and if you wanted to help, you could
Speaker 7: just come by to the border, come to one of
Speaker 7: these sites and just start distributing food or teaming up
Speaker 7: with us somehow, or by donating to the GoFundMe.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what's the good fund me?
Speaker 7: John, So let's go fundme that was set up by
Speaker 7: my dad. I don't actually know what it's like.
Speaker 4: How Cumba Migrant Aid you.
Speaker 5: To go fund me? How Cumba Migrant Aid. It comes up.
Speaker 16: Samuel Schultz, I think isy Samuel Schultz.
Speaker 5: So you'll know because it has like fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 5: on it and like maybe seven woods as a description.
Speaker 5: That's like GOOGLEMBA because not much else is going down here,
Speaker 5: I guess. But yeah, people can help that way, and
Speaker 5: we've had people come who listened. We had two people
Speaker 5: this morning right who had heard about it on the
Speaker 5: podcast and it come and helped. Yeah, and it made
Speaker 5: a really really great difference.
Speaker 16: Yeah, they camped out at the Sliders and really held
Speaker 16: it down, which is really important. I mean for some
Speaker 16: of us, we you know, like John and I, we
Speaker 16: kind of do like a morning shift where we get
Speaker 16: up really early and make sure to do everything that
Speaker 16: we need to do, prepping sandwiches, checking on all the camps.
Speaker 16: But a lot of people come in in the middle
Speaker 16: of the night. Sliders had people come in what at
Speaker 16: midnight or one am?
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, all throughout. A group came at midnight, a
Speaker 7: group came at like one am, and then there were
Speaker 7: also more that came at four am.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 16: So like having someone on site camping, you know, making
Speaker 16: sure that people's needs are met and that if any
Speaker 16: emergencies take place, that they're taken care of, and it's
Speaker 16: just that smiling face when they get here.
Speaker 4: It makes a huge difference.
Speaker 16: Like that dude from Brazil, like earlier he was saying
Speaker 16: to me, he was like thank you so much, Like
Speaker 16: this is like this is humanity right here, Like I'm
Speaker 16: a human and I'm.
Speaker 4: Like, yes, we will treat you like humans here.
Speaker 7: Like at the end of the day, you know, these
Speaker 7: people coming through Central America and Mexico, they go through
Speaker 7: so much, you know, extortion, people ripping them off, just
Speaker 7: feeling unwelcome throughout that whole voyage. Yeah, just having a
Speaker 7: group of people welcome them into the country and treat
Speaker 7: them with dignity is worth more than any bottle of
Speaker 7: water sandwich that we can give them. And you know,
Speaker 7: that's that's the main thing that we're doing. I would say, I.
Speaker 5: Want to emphasize that people can help in so many
Speaker 5: ways that you can send us stuff, you can send
Speaker 5: us money, or you can just show up. If you
Speaker 5: just have a weekend, that's totally fine, or a day
Speaker 5: that's totally fine, or if you just want to come
Speaker 5: and make sandwiches, that's totally fine. Like it, We're a
Speaker 5: very diverse group of people, and some people have had
Speaker 5: more time than others. But yeah, everyone I think is valued,
Speaker 5: and like you said, I think like we're the way
Speaker 5: that we organize without anyone, like we organized horizontally, has
Speaker 5: allowed us to be so much better. Like do you
Speaker 5: remember the day there was a day when we ran
Speaker 5: out of plates and we were like down in Willow
Speaker 5: and it was just it was like chaos. And then
Speaker 5: someone who just arrived that day was like, oh, what
Speaker 5: if we put the beans in a sandwich? Bag and
Speaker 5: give people. That was actually Peter, who's back now after
Speaker 5: going on m Stringer for a while. But yeah, like
Speaker 5: if we had been like no, I mean we've been
Speaker 5: doing this for long and then those people wouldn't have
Speaker 5: got fed, right, But because we were willing to listen,
Speaker 5: then the people got fed, and like we were all
Speaker 5: happier because the people got fed, right, Like it worked
Speaker 5: better that way. So like as things change, because it
Speaker 5: like it. Border patrol have said explicitly that they're trying
Speaker 5: to push people west, right, what do you think, like,
Speaker 5: what do we need going forward? What do you see
Speaker 5: like the situation being and like it's it would be
Speaker 5: good to explain the context of like the changing seasons
Speaker 5: here as well.
Speaker 7: Yes, so I think what we're going to see more
Speaker 7: of is people that are crossing in unorthodox areas, more
Speaker 7: people that are hopping the fence, more people that are
Speaker 7: cutting holes in the walls, just popping up all over
Speaker 7: the place. So yeah, it would be great to have
Speaker 7: eyes along the border, people that are willing to travel
Speaker 7: up and down along the border to find out where
Speaker 7: these people are coming through, because for the most part,
Speaker 7: we don't know a lot of times where these people
Speaker 7: are coming through. There are a couple of new oads
Speaker 7: open air detention sites that are relatively close to us
Speaker 7: that we can't find even.
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, like maybe if we had a super fancy
Speaker 5: drone we could find them, or just boots on the ground.
Speaker 4: A nice off road vehicle.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, then these are all things that cost
Speaker 5: money that we don't have. But like we've all put
Speaker 5: lots of miles on our trucks and lots of miles
Speaker 5: on our boots trying to help out.
Speaker 4: My exhaust is falling off all these bumps.
Speaker 5: Yeah, my transfer case to coop beating. But like, yeah,
Speaker 5: if we had more people, some of us could focus
Speaker 5: on feeding people here because there was how many people
Speaker 5: were there when we just left, now one hundred and
Speaker 5: twenty something like that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, oh no, actually probably more if you count the
Speaker 7: new group. I think you know what a conservative estimate
Speaker 7: would have been maybe one hundred and forty.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's we'd made one hundred and forty sandwich
Speaker 5: used to feed them today, and we'd chopped firewood and
Speaker 5: taken that out and we'd be given all that out right.
Speaker 5: That was after the same thing at breakfast time. That
Speaker 5: doesn't leave much time to go meander along the border
Speaker 5: and look for another site. So if we have more people,
Speaker 5: we could do that and that would be really valuable.
Speaker 16: Also if you have connection to firewood, Yeah, if you're
Speaker 16: a person who can bring us a lot of firewood.
Speaker 4: We have one homie right now and he's breaking his
Speaker 4: back for us. So yeah, that's a definite big need
Speaker 4: out here. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Is there other stuff like that that people who maybe
Speaker 5: aren't here but have connections to or they could they
Speaker 5: could send that's particularly needed.
Speaker 7: A nice off road vehicle, got one lying around? Firewood
Speaker 7: is definitely a big thing. That's that's a huge need. Yeah,
Speaker 7: it's getting really cold up here, and especially in like
Speaker 7: sliders too. I think it's higher in elevation, so.
Speaker 5: So exposed to there's nothing between you and the wind.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's very cold out there.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 7: But and and just other things that are that are
Speaker 7: easier for us to get, but we just constantly need
Speaker 7: such as breads, blankets, bread.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, tent all these things. Right, The wind and
Speaker 5: the sun destroys everything that we've stokepiled after a while,
Speaker 5: and we have to keep reinventing the wheel. And then
Speaker 5: sometimes borter patrol destroys our stuff as well, or sometimes
Speaker 5: some chubs come and destroy our stuff, which which.
Speaker 4: Oh, the chads destroying our stuff.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we should talk about the destruction of the shelters
Speaker 5: before we finish, I guess, just to end on a
Speaker 5: sad note. What was happy not because we built them
Speaker 5: again and the fine. So there were some shelters I
Speaker 5: think mostly they were ones that had been built while
Speaker 5: they were ones that had been built volunteers and John,
Speaker 5: you saw what happened to the shelters, right.
Speaker 7: Yeah, So we built some shelters at one of the sites,
Speaker 7: at one of the main sites. You know, it was
Speaker 7: very simple just by having of plywood as the frame
Speaker 7: holding it up and then kneeling down some tarps on
Speaker 7: it with batons.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 7: It was a nice thing. It stood up to the
Speaker 7: heavy winds that we have here very well.
Speaker 5: It's incomparably better to not having a shelter out there.
Speaker 16: Oh yeah, it's a completely different They're instantly use once
Speaker 16: people cross, and it's awesome to see like adults that
Speaker 16: are alone will get out and force family shelters like yeah,
Speaker 16: you get it first for sure.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and yeah, we built those. It was working out
Speaker 7: good then one day, the Border Patrol showed up or
Speaker 7: a company that was subcontracted by them and demolished them
Speaker 7: all using skiploaders and bulldozers and such. We showed up
Speaker 7: the following day, we rebuilt all the shelters, and we're
Speaker 7: really happy about it.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 7: It was kind of a big fuck you to them.
Speaker 7: You can tear down our stuff, but we'll just come
Speaker 7: back and build more.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but then.
Speaker 7: What was it like a three four days later or
Speaker 7: the next day maybe i'm not the next day, two
Speaker 7: days it was close. Yeah, some guys just showed up
Speaker 7: and they tore it all up with hammers.
Speaker 4: They finishing a tiny little finishing.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Luckily they didn't really come equipped like maybe with the
Speaker 5: with the tools, they didn't really know what they Yeah,
Speaker 5: I think it's fair to say that. But still it's
Speaker 5: it's annoying when you've put the time into building it, right,
Speaker 5: and Border Patrol didn't destroy our contractors didn't destroy the shelters.
Speaker 5: At first, we were like, oh, maybe they're not using this,
Speaker 5: but there are one hundred and forty people there right now,
Speaker 5: like in the shelters that got rebuilt for a third time.
Speaker 5: So like, I guess even we do appreciate people donating,
Speaker 5: and we understand that people's resources are scarce, and like
Speaker 5: the economy is bad and the rent is too damn high,
Speaker 5: et cetera. But like every time we build up enough stuff,
Speaker 5: we have to like we're always running uphill because like
Speaker 5: stuff just gets destroyed either by the by the weather
Speaker 5: or by the border patrol or by volunteer Border patrol judge,
Speaker 5: Like we could, I guess, desperately need your help. And
Speaker 5: like at some point the news cycle will move on
Speaker 5: from the border, and that doesn't mean that we will
Speaker 5: be able to move on from having people to help here, right,
Speaker 5: because like John said, there were people and people always
Speaker 5: deserve to be treated with dignity. Is there anything else
Speaker 5: that you guys think that people should know about the situation?
Speaker 4: Here we wrap up, it's kind of chill.
Speaker 3: It is really nice, like being here.
Speaker 5: I come here because it makes me happy, and my
Speaker 5: friends are here.
Speaker 16: Yeah, And like the slider's location is located in a
Speaker 16: really awesome like you can see down just past the
Speaker 16: border wall there's like a nice little train track that
Speaker 16: used to go from US into Mexico, I guess, And
Speaker 16: just beyond that there's like sheep on a farm yea
Speaker 16: in the distance like rolling hills, the clouds come through,
Speaker 16: and like say, it's a really beautiful place to be
Speaker 16: and to hang out. And a lot of the locals
Speaker 16: that don't hate what we're doing are very nice. The
Speaker 16: people at the hotel are very supportive.
Speaker 7: And yeah, we're a great group, really good people. It's
Speaker 7: always really fun to do anything like this. People are
Speaker 7: generally enamored by our project and want to be involved
Speaker 7: and come back a second time. I mean we're kind
Speaker 7: of like cowboys. I mean we're doing this all on
Speaker 7: our own, driving up and down, looking at the sites,
Speaker 7: looking around, and that whole responsibility is on our shoulders.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it feels good to take responsibility.
Speaker 7: So definitely we're doing this.
Speaker 4: It's like no one else will, so yeah, we'll just
Speaker 4: do it.
Speaker 5: Like that's fine. It's very like it reminds me of
Speaker 5: the punk scene growing up, but like it's a big
Speaker 5: important thing. Get Like you said, every national news network
Speaker 5: has been down here, every drifting streamer has been down here.
Speaker 5: But the end of the day, it's a few dozen
Speaker 5: random people who are actually the ones making sure that
Speaker 5: people don't die here. For all the government attention, for
Speaker 5: all the millions of dollars spend it.
Speaker 7: It's just us, Yeah, working on a fraction of the butt.
Speaker 7: I mean it costs them more to fly a helicopter
Speaker 7: for a few hours than we ever.
Speaker 5: Spent in our entire go fund b Yeah, and yeah,
Speaker 5: like we get it done. We're very efficient, I guess
Speaker 5: in that sense. But yeah, we would love more people.
Speaker 5: People have come because I listen to podcasts, and that also,
Speaker 5: like just for me personally means the world to me.
Speaker 5: Like most of the time we just talk into a
Speaker 5: microphone and then you can't really see who you're talking
Speaker 5: to unless unless you go on like social media, and
Speaker 5: that's not always the best reflection of humanity. So like
Speaker 5: it really means the world to me, and that someone
Speaker 5: like listens to this when they're driving to work or
Speaker 5: you know, going on a job or whatever they're doing,
Speaker 5: and it's like, no, I will I will go and
Speaker 5: I will help, because I think that is how we
Speaker 5: solve so many of our problems. Like there is a
Speaker 5: massive problem with people not being able to afford rent
Speaker 5: living on the street in this country, and we solve
Speaker 5: it in the same way by just showing up for
Speaker 5: each other.
Speaker 16: And there's also different ways to get plugged in, Like
Speaker 16: if the desert's not your thing, it doesn't. I mean,
Speaker 16: this is like where the process starts as far as
Speaker 16: like the spectrum of the whole border crisis or not crisis,
Speaker 16: but the whole border humanitarian situation we have going on here.
Speaker 4: So this is what we're doing out here. But there's
Speaker 4: also airport runs.
Speaker 16: A lot of them get ditched in the airports, so
Speaker 16: I think we all we got SD and maybe M
Speaker 16: dev and center kind of hold down they do airport
Speaker 16: runs Border Patrol just I guess at night they don't
Speaker 16: drop them off like after ten or something.
Speaker 4: They don't drop them off at the IRIS station. They'll
Speaker 4: just drop them straight off at the airport.
Speaker 16: So they need help being fed. A lot of them
Speaker 16: don't have plane tickets. They need to kind of some
Speaker 16: you know, people need blankets because they have to sleep there.
Speaker 16: So well, I mean we all we got is great
Speaker 16: for that you can plug in with them, and I
Speaker 16: think Alochlado and who else is it M Deef as well,
Speaker 16: that's doing the IRIS street releases. So when the border
Speaker 16: patrol just releases them on the street, like a lot
Speaker 16: of people just getting a cab and go they have
Speaker 16: the resources, they can do that. They're already planned. But
Speaker 16: some people don't have any money, or they got robbed
Speaker 16: on the way here, so they have nothing. They need
Speaker 16: a lot of help. They need to figure out where
Speaker 16: to go. They need a place to stay. So there's
Speaker 16: the street releases, there's the airport, there's I think that's
Speaker 16: kind of.
Speaker 7: Or by just helping with shelters and organizations in whatever
Speaker 7: city you happen to be living in. You know, the
Speaker 7: majority of the migro well, not the majority, but a
Speaker 7: very typical answer migrants give me when I ask them
Speaker 7: where in the United States they're going to? Is New
Speaker 7: York City or Chicago or any of.
Speaker 5: These major Yeah, Lincoln, Nebraska the other day.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's gonna be Idaho. Have fun.
Speaker 7: It was beautiful.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 5: There was a guy have al and I met from
Speaker 5: a minority ethnic group in Russia. We met in September.
Speaker 5: I remember one of those first really cold nights and
Speaker 5: I was talking to this person and they were in
Speaker 5: Pennsylvania and I checked in with him a few weeks
Speaker 5: ago and they're like, happily living in Pennsylvania. Can't understand
Speaker 5: the word anyone else is saying. It's nice to see,
Speaker 5: and yeah, you can help those people live in whatever
Speaker 5: community you're in, And like if you're further along the border,
Speaker 5: there's paha Samaritans. There's no massive worthdays. There's humane borders
Speaker 5: to songs Samaritans as well. Right, yeah, all along the border,
Speaker 5: you know, there are the there are lots of good
Speaker 5: people in Texas, right it's a sidewalk school and Blintamoros,
Speaker 5: the people at the National Butterfly Center who are very
Speaker 5: nice people who we've heard from before, Like all along
Speaker 5: the border and like all around this country, there were
Speaker 5: there are things you can do to help, and I
Speaker 5: want to reinforce it. It's not like this penurious thing
Speaker 5: we do that's miserable and we all get together and
Speaker 5: cry every night. Like we do have a nice time,
Speaker 5: even though we have seen some really stressful things. Like
Speaker 5: we all look after one another and hold space when
Speaker 5: people do need help or extra time to process something.
Speaker 5: But it's a very supportive community and we support each
Speaker 5: other through lots of other things, like aside from this,
Speaker 5: and I think a lot of people in general in
Speaker 5: the twenty first century America struggle with isolation. And that's
Speaker 5: a thing that capitalism does to people, right, it isolates
Speaker 5: us from each other and so hopefully, like I think
Speaker 5: this is a solution for me. This has been a
Speaker 5: really positive thing, but like generally my sense of hope.
Speaker 16: Yeah, and like what we're doing this kind of does
Speaker 16: it's disaster humanitarian relief effort. It's kind of with the
Speaker 16: way the climate is going in the world in climate,
Speaker 16: climate are going.
Speaker 5: To get less common.
Speaker 16: Yeah, this will just be getting more common. And like
Speaker 16: this kind of like preparing and building community and like
Speaker 16: this disaster scenario is gonna yeah, definitely be more in commons.
Speaker 4: And it's not that easy to do.
Speaker 7: I mean, it's not that hard to do now, you know,
Speaker 7: you just got to have the intention and then you
Speaker 7: just got to get together and do it. That's all.
Speaker 7: That's all you really need to do.
Speaker 5: Don't think that it's like this. If someone had said
Speaker 5: to us, what plus or minus fifty thousand people probably
Speaker 5: have come through. I have no idea on the numbers,
Speaker 5: but somewhere around there.
Speaker 7: Yeah, probably more than that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, if we like I remember in May when we
Speaker 5: cleaned up the first o ads, when we were like
Speaker 5: when I first met your mum and dad, John, we
Speaker 5: were cleaning up the first o ads and we were like, wow,
Speaker 5: that was a horrible thing that happened. That was really fucked.
Speaker 5: If someone had said, right, well, between now and next March,
Speaker 5: fifty thousand people will come through here and it's mostly
Speaker 5: going to be you guys who are here picking up trash,
Speaker 5: and that's that's all.
Speaker 4: It's going to be.
Speaker 5: Like it's on you. It would have been it would
Speaker 5: have seemed overwhelming, right, But I don't think people should
Speaker 5: feel afraid to confront these big problems because like between
Speaker 5: the group of people who we've said would hear, we've
Speaker 5: been able to confront this problem and make it survivable
Speaker 5: and treat people with dignity and bring some dignity and
Speaker 5: humanity into a situation where there wasn't any, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And there's a role for everybody. No matter what
Speaker 4: you do.
Speaker 16: You can find your niche of what you know, you
Speaker 16: makes you feel good, or something that you're good at,
Speaker 16: you know. Yeah, it's finding the little fascists that destroyed
Speaker 16: our things online and doing all that online footwork, or
Speaker 16: it's building shelters, or it's making PB and J's or.
Speaker 5: Our friends made out website and made a really good
Speaker 5: website website, yeah, or even Yeah, just.
Speaker 16: Being someone that speaks multiple languages is a huge need
Speaker 16: out here, especially I mean Spanish is pretty common, but
Speaker 16: the harder languages, like I mean Mandarin.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, if you speak Mandarin and then you reach
Speaker 5: out to us and when we can call you, then
Speaker 5: that would be huge, right. They could make real in
Speaker 5: a medical emergency that could be a life or death thing.
Speaker 5: So there are a ton of ways to help and
Speaker 5: re encourage people to kind of go up to they can.
Speaker 5: Where can people follow along with YouTube? Do you have
Speaker 5: like social media or anything that you want to plug?
Speaker 10: I don't.
Speaker 7: I'm gonna keep mine frivving the world beautiful.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 16: One of the how I got involved in this is
Speaker 16: through members of a drum line that I am part of,
Speaker 16: so we show up for protests, have been since twenty
Speaker 16: twenty direct Action drum Line.
Speaker 4: On Instagram.
Speaker 16: We post a lot of different stuff from organizing for
Speaker 16: Palestine to you know, we were doing a lot of
Speaker 16: Black Lives Matter stuff early in twenty twenty and now
Speaker 16: it's you know, kind of cross mixed with border aids
Speaker 16: since I've been out here, So we occasionally will make
Speaker 16: posts so you can follow along there.
Speaker 4: Alo Gelato is a.
Speaker 16: Good one to follow on social media inco Paul Wellness
Speaker 16: on Instagram Borderlands Relief Collective.
Speaker 4: I'm sure a lot of the people listening already follow
Speaker 4: a lot of these people. But yeah, there's a network
Speaker 4: through all of that.
Speaker 16: And so once you start following one or the other,
Speaker 16: we all tag each other and we share each other's
Speaker 16: stuff so you can get involved and figure out what's
Speaker 16: going on.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the is it bored? What's the website for?
Speaker 5: That's a great resource? Order ay dot get help dot io.
Speaker 5: I think if you give it a Google somewhere or
Speaker 5: somewhere around that you'll find it. It is a good website.
Speaker 5: And like if you are facing similar issues in your
Speaker 5: community or wherever you are, whatever it is. Like, we've
Speaker 5: definitely made a lot of mistakes and we've learned a lot,
Speaker 5: and so we've tried to document the things that we've
Speaker 5: learned so that you guys don't have to reinvent the
Speaker 5: wheels somewhere else. Right, Like, you know, you can be
Speaker 5: an efficient PB and jamaker just like us.
Speaker 4: Right, learn Suirly's technique.
Speaker 5: All right, thank you so much, guys, I really appreciate
Speaker 5: your time that question.
Speaker 7: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Jeers Hey We'll be back Monday with more episodes every
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