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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, there's Chuck.

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Speaker 1: Ben's here two sitting in for Dave. It's a brain buster,

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Speaker 1: which we like to call short stuff.

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Speaker 2: That's right. This is when we tell the tale of

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Speaker 2: the Ramri Island crocodile massacre.

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Speaker 1: It was bizarre, boy, what just happened? So, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: mentioned the Ramri Island crocodile massacret that happens to be

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Speaker 1: the title of this episode. Let's talk about it.

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Speaker 2: Thank goodness. All right, here's the story. Nineteen forty five,

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Speaker 2: World War two is happening. The Allies had pinned down

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Speaker 2: one thousand Japanese soldier and a mangrove swamp off of

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Speaker 2: what is now Minamar. Back then it was Burma. I

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Speaker 2: imagine they weren't like me and thought, oh jeez, I

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Speaker 2: love mangroves. This is amazing. They were scared and it's

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Speaker 2: all they should have been, because only twenty of those

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Speaker 2: one thousand soldiers made it out alive. And as the

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Speaker 2: story goes, roughly nine hundred of them were eaten by

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Speaker 2: saltwater crocodiles.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and just an orgy of animal flesh eating horror.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which should be the first sign that. Hm, maybe

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Speaker 2: that's not quite right.

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Speaker 1: Well, you just kind of spoiled the whole thing for everybody.

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Speaker 2: Well, what else is there?

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Speaker 1: The idea that Crocodile's a nine hundred Japanese soldiers in

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Speaker 1: a single night in a mangrove swamp on Ramree Island

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Speaker 1: off of me and mar Yeah, well that's the story

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Speaker 1: that was basically generally believed back when people were I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say dumber, because we're pretty dumb now,

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Speaker 1: but maybe well a little more prone to listen to

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Speaker 1: the Guinness Book of World Records.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and maybe a little less access to good information,

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Speaker 2: even though you know the Internet give it and take

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Speaker 2: it away of course in that respect. But the origins

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Speaker 2: of the story are there was a Royal Canadian Lieutenant

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Speaker 2: command named Bruce Wright who little side note, he was

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Speaker 2: credited with being the guy who sort of invented the

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Speaker 2: idea of the frogman unit, when these scuba div ring

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Speaker 2: soldiers would scuba dive near something and spy or maybe

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Speaker 2: stick a bomb in the underside of a submarine or something.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what they do. But he was taking

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Speaker 2: part in a joint British and Indian mission there at

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Speaker 2: Ramary Island. He was a leader of the frogmen. He

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Speaker 2: was a reconnaissance guy. He was also a wildlife biologist

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Speaker 2: and author. And then later on in nineteen sixty two,

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Speaker 2: wrote a book called Wildlife Sketches Colon Near and Far

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Speaker 2: in which he detailed partially detailed the story of this

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Speaker 2: crocodile massacre.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And so he was a respected naturalist or respected

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Speaker 1: biologist by this time. And if he hadn't a been,

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Speaker 1: we probably wouldn't be talking about this story right now. Yeah, because,

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Speaker 1: like he said at the outsid is so fantastic that

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Speaker 1: it just defies sensibility. But because there was a respected naturalist,

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Speaker 1: Bruce Wright writing about this, it was picked up by

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Speaker 1: another scientist, a conservationist named Roger carus Or Karris, who

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Speaker 1: wrote a book a couple of years later called Dangerous

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Speaker 1: to Man. And even in his account of the Ramriy

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Speaker 1: Island massacre he says, like, if this had come from

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Speaker 1: somebody else, I would not be recounting it here. But

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Speaker 1: not only is Bruce Wright like very respected and a

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Speaker 1: trustworthy fellow, he was on Ramory Island when this happened.

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Speaker 1: So it happened.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But here's the deal, and I said he detailed it,

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Speaker 2: Right did in his book. It wasn't that detailed. It

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Speaker 2: was only a paragraph, so it wasn't super robust. I

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Speaker 2: think the more robust account came from Karris's book. But

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Speaker 2: here's the deal is that Right was at Ramriy, but

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Speaker 2: he did not witness this happen. He apparently, we found

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Speaker 2: out later, had picked up on this story second hand

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Speaker 2: from some of his We said that he was, you know,

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Speaker 2: working with the British military, from some of those British

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Speaker 2: soldiers who are patrolling the island. So he picks up

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Speaker 2: that passage second hand. And in the book, if you

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Speaker 2: read his passage, he never even claims to have personally

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Speaker 2: witnessed it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, can't touch this, that's right.

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Speaker 2: So that's another problem. We should probably talk a little

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Speaker 2: bit about the sea crocodiles though, huh? Or should we

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Speaker 2: take a break?

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Speaker 1: I think we should take a break and come back.

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Speaker 2: All right, we'll do that, and then she's you're gonna

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Speaker 2: hear so much about sea crocodiles you'll be crazy with it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Chuck, we're back. We're talking about the saltwater crocodile

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Speaker 1: Crocodilus porosis poof also known as the esturine. Esturine right, esturine.

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Speaker 1: M I just keep saying the same version over and

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Speaker 1: over again.

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Speaker 2: I know how to say estuary, but esturine. Maybe that

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Speaker 2: is it.

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Speaker 1: It's got to be it. Crocodile. There's only one of

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Speaker 1: two crocodile species that will prey on humans. And one

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Speaker 1: reason they prey on humans is because we're basically like

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Speaker 1: a a piece of gum to the compared to their guys.

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Speaker 1: Sure an amuse bouche.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're big. They can get up to twenty three feet,

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Speaker 2: they can weigh a ton. They are, like you said,

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Speaker 2: they're pretty aggressive. Like you know, we've done stuff on

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Speaker 2: crocodiles and alligators even they're not super aggressive animals. But

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Speaker 2: these saltwater crocs are pretty territorial, and I think they've

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Speaker 2: done some stats. The most recent I found was twenty

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Speaker 2: fifteen seventy nine fatal saltwater crocodile attacks out of one

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Speaker 2: hundred and eighty in one year in Southeast Asia and

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Speaker 2: coastal India and Oceania.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, which is where they live, so basically throughout

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Speaker 1: the world. That's how many people were.

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Speaker 2: Attacked, Yeah, exactly, But seventy nine fatalities in a year

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Speaker 2: is a lot for you know, talking about eating by crocodile,

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Speaker 2: but when you talk about nine hundred men being eate,

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Speaker 2: like eaten overnight, that doesn't sound possible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And there was a historian named Frank mclenn who

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Speaker 1: wrote a book on the Battle and the Pacific, specifically

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Speaker 1: on or the War in the Pacific is specifically the

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Speaker 1: battles in Burma, and he mentions this crocodile story and

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Speaker 1: he says that it quote offends every single canaan of

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Speaker 1: historical verifability.

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Speaker 2: Every single cannon.

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Speaker 1: Verifiability. What is going on?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. You didn't say battle was specific there,

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Speaker 2: so I was kind of proud of.

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Speaker 1: You, the Battle of Pisketti. Yeah, So Frank mclenn's onto something.

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Speaker 1: He's like, this doesn't even make sense, because seriously, by

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Speaker 1: this time, the story is that nine hundred Japanese soldiers

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Speaker 1: were eaten in a single horrific night in an island

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Speaker 1: off of Burma, in a mangrove swamp, and that the

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Speaker 1: British who were fighting them heard their horrific cries as

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Speaker 1: they perished. And finally, Frank mclan's like, this does not

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Speaker 1: make sense everybody, let's just stop and use our noodles

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Speaker 1: for a second.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole thing starts to kind of fall apart.

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Speaker 2: First of all, that neither one of the official either

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Speaker 2: Japanese or British military records mentioned this at all, so

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Speaker 2: that's a big one. Second of all, they didn't lose

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Speaker 2: nine hundred soldiers there at Ramrey. Apparently there were a

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Speaker 2: couple of investigations and about five hundred of the original

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Speaker 2: one thousand did get out alive. So I went on

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Speaker 2: to five hundred, that would still be too many, And

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Speaker 2: so apparently they did more investigating. They talked to Burmese

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Speaker 2: villagers who were alive during that time. Some of them

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Speaker 2: were actually conscripted by the military of Japan, and they said,

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Speaker 2: you know, most of them actually died from disease and

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Speaker 2: dehydration and exposure, and if any were eaten, it may

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Speaker 2: have been like a dozen or so.

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Speaker 1: Which is still significant. I mean, like, if one hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighty for a year across the world and only

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Speaker 1: seventy nine are killed, a dozen in a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks is pretty significant. The thing is, it's not like

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Speaker 1: this story is completely without merit. It's just it was

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Speaker 1: so ridiculously embellished that basically everybody's like, this isn't true,

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Speaker 1: but there's still Apparently were sounds, terrible sounds coming from

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Speaker 1: the Japanese soldiers that the British noticed. But there were

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Speaker 1: a couple of investigations into this. Herpetologist Stephen Platt investigated

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Speaker 1: in a national geographic show called Nazi World War Weird

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Speaker 1: also investigated, and I don't remember which one, but they

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Speaker 1: one of them looked into the British military records for

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Speaker 1: that battle, which again was weeks long, a single night

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Speaker 1: and on one particular night though February eighteenth, nineteen forty five,

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Speaker 1: which would coincide with the original story about the crocodile massacre,

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Speaker 1: the Allies were alerted by cries of Japanese soldiers, but

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Speaker 1: they weren't being attacked by crocodiles. They were drowning by

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Speaker 1: the dozens as they were trying to swim from Ramrie

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Speaker 1: Island to the Burmese mainland.

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Speaker 2: Equally as horrifying. But I also always thought, didn't we

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Speaker 2: even find out for research of drowning as a pretty

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Speaker 2: quiet affair.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So there were some other things that could have

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Speaker 1: accounted for this one. The British started mowing them down

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Speaker 1: with machine guns as they tried to swim away. That

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Speaker 1: was ultimately what accounted for the massacre at Ramree Island.

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Speaker 1: They were also being picked off by sharks and some

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Speaker 1: of them died as their boats were sinking. And if

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Speaker 1: your boat sinking, I'm sure that can probably get a

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Speaker 1: pretty good loud rise out of you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the next day at daybreak, there

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Speaker 2: were crocodiles feeding on bodies and they were just obviously

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of you know, crocodile food there

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, so there are a lot more

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Speaker 2: crocodiles in view, and so I think that it sort

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Speaker 2: of helped the story, or at least a legend build.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So if you take all that information, put it

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Speaker 1: into Bruce Wright, pick them up, shake them for a

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Speaker 1: little bit, turn them upside down, what pours out is

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Speaker 1: the Ramrie Island crocodile massacres story.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So there you go, myth busted way to go.

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Speaker 2: Adam Short stuff out?

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Speaker 1: Short stuff is that stuff you should know? Is a

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: For more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app

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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,