1 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Sebastian Rogers is still missing. The fifteen year old autistic 2 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: young man has been missing. 3 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 2: Since February twenty six. 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: My girl, Nancy Grace offered the stepdad a polygraph. Stepdad says, 5 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: name the place in time Nancy Grace did. 6 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 2: He's a no show yees, Cheryl. 7 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 3: I was putting up that money out of my own 8 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 3: pocket to get a very well respected polygrapher to do 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 3: the polygraph and to go to the Memphis area to 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 3: make it happen. All along Proudfoot had said he would 11 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 3: do it. Then when I got right down to it, 12 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 3: the whole thing blew up and he blames the TBI. Now, 13 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 3: as a long time prosecutor, I would not agree. I 14 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 3: would not stipulate, as you know we have to do 15 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 3: for a polygraph to come in in a criminal case 16 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 3: both side. In some jurisdictions, both sides have to stipulate, 17 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 3: agree to allow the polygraph in before the poly is taken, 18 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 3: all right, and then you're stuck with the results, whether 19 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 3: you like him or not. But I would never do 20 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 3: that because I didn't know what the outcome was going 21 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 3: to be and I wanted to make sure my evidence 22 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 3: was strong. Long story short, I still like to look 23 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 3: at polygraphs. If somebody passes a polygraph that gives them 24 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 3: the indisha of reliability, a veracity of truthfulness, just because 25 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 3: I don't bring it into court, it would still be 26 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 3: a tool for me to say, hey, this guy's telling 27 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 3: the truth. Maybe he's telling the truth about other things. 28 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 3: It's a very important tool. So why wouldn't take the polly? 29 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 3: He blames the TBI. My point is, why wouldn't the 30 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 3: TBI want an additional polly. 31 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: They're a fantastic investigative tool. And again, he can also 32 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: take one privately. 33 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 3: He can go do it. 34 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: He can set it up through his own attorney if 35 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: that's something he wanted to do to help clear his name. 36 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: You and I have talked so often about Mark Klass. 37 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: Let's eliminate me, so y'all can go find my child. 38 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 3: This is an opportunity for them to get past that 39 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 3: and on to what really happened to their boy. 40 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 2: But let's talk about it. 41 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: Nancy, you have told the story about when John David 42 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: went missing in the store for seven seconds and you 43 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: lost your complete mind. You made them shut the store down, 44 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: and he was just playing hide and seek. They have 45 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: left town. 46 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 3: I don't like it now in their defense, and don't 47 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 3: think defending anybody or prosecuting anybody. Here's how you win 48 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 3: a case. You anticipate, you think on what they are 49 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 3: going to do, then you destroy it. I've been thinking 50 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 3: of what they're saying. They said they left town because 51 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 3: he Proudfoot had to go to work. She went with him, 52 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 3: and they told me that they're getting a lot of 53 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 3: hate and people know where they live. Did they leave 54 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 3: because they're being harassed? Is she really afraid? That's what 55 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 3: they said to me. Now, that would be their defense 56 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 3: in leaving, So I have to take that into account. 57 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 3: I don't know that I believe it or don't believe it. 58 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 3: I really do, contrary with many people believe keep an 59 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 3: open mind. What if they are telling the truth. 60 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: I just want to throw some things around hit me. 61 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: If one of my children were missing, I could care 62 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: less about my own safety. 63 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: I'll tell you right now. 64 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: Second, the bio mom and stepdad are now no longer 65 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: talking to the bio dad. 66 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: That's not a good look either. 67 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: She is saying things like, well, we're getting threads, and 68 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: you know, people are driving by our house at all hours, 69 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: and our neighbors are upset. I'm going to tell you 70 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: again my child is missing. I could care less what 71 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: my neighbors think. I'm going to be a crazy person. 72 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: They are not searching for him. She keeps saying things like, quote, 73 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: when we find him, when we who? 74 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 2: You're not looking for your child. 75 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 3: Cheryl, I agree with you. If it were my child, 76 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 3: no way would I leave in case, in case he 77 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 3: somehow got back home, and I would be manning search 78 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 3: center and putting out flyers and laying on the police 79 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: station front steps, begging and screaming and going on TV 80 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 3: and begging, taking a Polly, take my DNA. Do whatever 81 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 3: you want. However, Cheryl McCollum, I'm also looking at it 82 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 3: as a trial lawyer. That's what i'd be doing. But 83 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 3: I'm looking at what they're saying, and I'm analyzing it 84 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 3: for its veracity. Are they acting like I would act? No, 85 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 3: they're not not at all, certainly not the way you 86 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 3: would act. And John David was gone more longer than 87 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 3: seven seconds. I'd put it up around five minutes, because 88 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 3: I know I had Lucy under my arm like a 89 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 3: football and I was running. I looked like a crazy person. 90 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 3: My hair was crazy. No makeup. I think I'd actually 91 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 3: been in the community pool with them morning. It just 92 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 3: it was insane, and those moments of thinking John David 93 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 3: had been taken was awful. Literally screaming, locked the doors, 94 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 3: I wouldn't let go of Lucy. It was just beyond 95 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 3: even tears. It was just cold fear of where is 96 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 3: my son? That's how I acted. I don't understand them, Cheryl, 97 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 3: I don't understand them. I think that a jury would 98 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 3: agree with you. However, I'm trying to figure out why, 99 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 3: why are they acting this way. I've been in a 100 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 3: lot of RV camps, you know, we like to RV 101 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 3: in camp, and I find it hard to believe when 102 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 3: your child's missing, your hold up in an RV camp 103 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 3: or anywhere not at the search location. 104 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: You know, here's the thing. 105 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: If you and I were sitting at our original Zone 106 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: seven and we had this case and I said to 107 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: you as a prosecutor, hey, Nancy, the mom said that 108 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: Sebastian took the trash out to the end of the driveway, 109 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: that was his chore. Then she says a flashlights missing. 110 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: Then there's a video that depicts maybe flashlights. But now 111 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: they're saying no it's a trash truck, and now law 112 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: enforcement is checking a landfilled I don't like that because 113 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: that looks like to me, your child is mission. 114 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 2: Do you notice a flashlight ain't there? 115 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: That sounds like somebody said to her, hey, look at 116 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: this video or those flashlights? Oh yeah, flashlights missing. And 117 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: then they asked the stepdad about it. And this is 118 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: a direct quote. I want you to tell me what 119 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: you think of this. As a prosecutor, everything that everybody 120 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: is trying to assume is a flashlight. I hate to 121 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: say this, but it's not as much. 122 00:07:55,560 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: As we would love it to be. It's not love 123 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 2: it to be a flashlight. 124 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: So you're telling me you would either love that to 125 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: be Sebastian out there at three eleven in the morning 126 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: with a flashlight and there's two flashlights, which means somebody 127 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: is with him, which means that seems coordinated. But there's 128 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: no evidence on his phone or computer or anything else 129 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: that he's met up with somebody, and he ain't got 130 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: no shoes on. You would love it to be a flashlight? 131 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: Like that is baffling to me. 132 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: All of these things. 133 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 3: Well, it's my understanding that law enforcement has told various 134 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 3: sources that those were not flashlights, So that whole theory 135 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 3: is a waste of my time. If they're saying it's 136 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 3: not a flashlight, it's not a flashlight, they have a 137 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 3: reason for saying that. They have probably digitally enhanced the 138 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 3: video and of determined it was not a flashlight. You 139 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 3: ever been sitting in your house and you see carl 140 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 3: lights turned somewhere. You can't quite make it out, you 141 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 3: don't know where it is. That's what I think it was. 142 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 3: At first, I was hoping that there was evidence that 143 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 3: he had snuck away from the house on his own, 144 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 3: but that's not what happened. Regarding those flashlights, they're not 145 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 3: flashlights if what we're being told is true, So that 146 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 3: debunks the whole theory. What really is bothering me the most, sheeryl, 147 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 3: because the lights could have been anything. It could have 148 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 3: been a neighbor pulling in or out, could have been 149 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 3: any number of things. What's disturbing me is the dogs. 150 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 3: The dogs you've known from the beginning. That's my problem 151 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 3: because she Katie Proudfoot said the dogs hit outside the house, 152 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 3: and no matter who I ask, I get different answers. 153 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 3: Because if the dogs did not hit outside the house. 154 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 3: Then he did not leave the house much less barefoot. 155 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: And you're talking about a child that's had no medicine 156 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: in six weeks, no food that we know of, no 157 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: way to get any food, no way to get any help. 158 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: Nobody has seen anything of him, not one legitimate sighting 159 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: of this child. 160 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 2: Now, let me ask you one other thing. You and 161 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: I are big on loyalty. 162 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: We are married to two people that we trust without question. 163 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 3: I heard on. 164 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: More than one video the. 165 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: Bio Dad talking about Sebastian was going to come and 166 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: live with him, and he had been talking to Chris 167 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: Proudfoot about getting Sebastian to come live with him, like 168 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: work on Katie about it. I cannot fathom an ex 169 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: husband and my current husband working together to get my 170 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: child away from me. 171 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 3: Oh hell no. I mean, you know, I love David, 172 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 3: but I've made it very clear. You know they're my 173 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 3: number one Amen. That's just and a lot of people say, hey, 174 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 3: that's wrong. They're my responsibility, it is my duty, and 175 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 3: I'll want to take care of them. They're my number 176 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 3: one priority on this earth anyway. And it would be 177 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 3: a cold day in hubl that David Lynch would try 178 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 3: to fanangle around to get the children away from me. Oh, 179 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 3: they'd be hell to pay. I can tell you that 180 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 3: much right now. But that said, I wouldn't like any 181 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 3: I mean, think about your best friend if you found 182 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 3: out your best friend was conniding against you, much less 183 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 3: your husband. It's important in that it gives me an 184 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 3: insight into the dynamic. And another thing, Cheryl, I don't 185 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 3: shoot from the hip. All of this evidence, all of 186 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 3: these thoughts, all of these observations we're discussing, is in 187 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 3: my stack of evidence. But I have to analyze it 188 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 3: and figure out what does it mean in the sense 189 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 3: of how could I use that at trial? Is it 190 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 3: something I could use or is it just something I 191 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 3: think or I feel? Because that's not going to carry 192 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 3: the day. It has to be hard evidence. That's why 193 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 3: I was asking initially of both of them, the Proud Foits, 194 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 3: what kind of car do you drive? What year is it? 195 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 3: I want to find out if they've got a NAV 196 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 3: system in it. I want to find if that has 197 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 3: been looked at. Remember how valuable that was in the 198 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 3: Alex Murdock trial. I mean his nap Murdoch's NAV system 199 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 3: nailed him, along with his digital phone. Evidence. I mean 200 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 3: it placed him at the scene of the murders at 201 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 3: the time of the murders. You know, it may maybe 202 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 3: thirty thirty seconds to a minute, and that just did 203 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 3: it didn't happen the way he said it happened. And 204 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 3: once somebody's caught to lie to me, that says something 205 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 3: nefarious is going on. Now, Cheryl, there are times people 206 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 3: a polygraph for more innocent reasons, like you take a 207 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 3: polly and you lie about smoking pot. Okay, I don't 208 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 3: care right now about issues like that. All I care 209 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 3: about is we're a Sebastian. So somebody can fill a 210 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 3: polly because they're covering up on some other tangential issue. 211 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 3: So you know, I have to weigh what they're saying. 212 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 3: Why would they lie about a flashlight? Why would they 213 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 3: lie about a dog hitting around the house. I can't 214 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 3: think of reasons that are not nefarious. 215 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: You know, just the way you're talking now, you're so 216 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: good and always just coming back. 217 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 2: To what the basics are, What evidence do we have? 218 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: Forget being emotional, forget how you might respond if it was. 219 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: Your child and all that. You're absolutely right. 220 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: So the facts that we know he has no medicine 221 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: no cash, no vehicle, no shoes, no cell phone, no 222 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: extra clothes. 223 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 2: This does not look like a child that ran away. 224 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: This does not sound at all to me like somebody 225 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: got in that house and got him. There's no forced entry. 226 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: The dogs didn't react. And the scary thing is when 227 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: she says I heard a thud, She says he responded 228 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: to her when she said, I don't know what you're 229 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: doing in there, but go to bed, He's like, yes, ma'am. 230 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 3: If I heard it, so said number one, I can 231 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 3: find out what it is. Yeah. 232 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 2: I don't like the word thud. 233 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, set on my rear end and wonder, hey is 234 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 3: John David is Lucy? Okay, go find out. Like last 235 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 3: night Cheryl McCollum, I went in Lucy's room. My mother, 236 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 3: you know, it's ninety two and lives with us. She 237 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 3: woke us, woke me up, and I'll happened. I thought, well, 238 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 3: I'm gonna check in on the twins. I peeked in 239 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 3: John David's room. He was out called. I peeked in 240 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 3: Lucy's and then I shut the door and I went, 241 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 3: wait a minute, did I I see a light at 242 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 3: this time? And I peeped back in there and little 243 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 3: miss thing was under almost under the covers, with her 244 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 3: cell phone on, looking at skincare regimens. Don't even you know. 245 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 3: And this was that quarter of twelve. I'm like, Lucy, 246 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 3: are you awake, sweetheart? She goes, yes, ma'am. She's so cute. 247 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 3: I can't even fussate. I'm like, don't you have a 248 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 3: US history test tomorrow? She's like, I studied. I'm like, 249 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 3: but you're not gonna you won't be able to keep 250 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 3: your eyes open, sweetheart, go to sleep. My point is, 251 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 3: when you think something's off, you go look, you check 252 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 3: on it. If I heard a big thud, you darn right, 253 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 3: O would be in just none of it's fitting together 254 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 3: because I wouldn't respond that way. But does that mean 255 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 3: that there was wrongdoing? I'm telling you it goes back 256 00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 3: to the dogs and to potential lies. Another thing disturbed me, 257 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 3: And when I look online, I see so much vitriol 258 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 3: and so much hate toward the Proud Foots. That does 259 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 3: not carry the day in finding Sebastian. Everybody better bring 260 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 3: it down a notch and think about what really happened 261 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 3: that night. The hard evidence, Cheryl. One thing that was 262 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 3: brought up that I found really interesting was what he 263 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 3: allegedly had on when he went out that evening for 264 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 3: dinner and bullying who was really there and compared to 265 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 3: what he was wearing when the mom said he disappeared. 266 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 3: I just don't see how you just disappear from your 267 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 3: house in the middle of the night and you don't 268 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 3: know anything that happened. 269 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely, now that's. 270 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 3: An issue right there. The clothing. Who saw the clothing? 271 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 3: Is there a picture of the clothing. That's something I'm 272 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 3: really interested in right now. 273 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 2: I can't agree more. 274 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: And you know, something else that stood out to me, 275 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: just as a side is if you look at the 276 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: original Amber alert, you know he's wearing a shirt that 277 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: literally says optimism. 278 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 2: I don't know. 279 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: It just kind of bugs me that, of all the 280 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: photographs of this child you could have picked, it's that, 281 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: because it's almost like you're subliminally trying to say something. 282 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: I just didn't like it. 283 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 3: It's just me, Okay, yeah, I can't use that at trial. 284 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 3: Next I know, next I know he had on an 285 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 3: optimism T shirt. Oh okay, no, no, I'm with you, and. 286 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: That we talked about some real evidence, and that's why 287 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: I love talking to you. Hey, why don't we switch 288 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: real quick and talk about Oklahoma real fast. We've got 289 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: two women missing, one twenty seven Veronica Butler, one thirty nine, 290 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: Julian Kelly, and police have now come out and said 291 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: evidence in the car indicates foul play. 292 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 3: I'm very concerned about you, Cheryl McCollum, because I have 293 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 3: a sneaking suspicion you are not watching our new program 294 00:17:55,480 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 3: on MSM Emma's and Mothers Sally m Mother in the 295 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 3: Atlanta jurisdiction where you are, it's channel sixty six, because 296 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 3: we just covered this last night, a full hour share 297 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 3: on my column that apparently you did not watch. 298 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: That's the reason I'm bringing it up because I know 299 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: you're up to speed. 300 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 3: I know you're in the new Doctor Phil. 301 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: Network, and congratulations, I'm proud to say I'm part of it. 302 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 3: Hey, will you come on with me? 303 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: I would love to come on with you, And let 304 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: me tell you something I loved more than anything, your banter. 305 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: You and Steve Harvey. The two of you were adorable. 306 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: I watched the video was a quick little video, but 307 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: y'all were just so cute. You were like, Hey, I'm 308 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: here with Doctor Phil, and here's Steve Harvey and he's like, hey, hey, 309 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: I'm not. 310 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 2: Supposed to be here, don't take my picture. It was 311 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: pretty funny. Y'all were great. 312 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 3: I really really like Harvey. We go back a long 313 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 3: way and he's a great guy. He works harder than 314 00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 3: anybody I know, really really hard worker. The two women, 315 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 3: the two women, Okay, there is a witness, get this, Cheryl. 316 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 3: They leave Elkhart and there's three jurisdictions. That's a problem 317 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 3: because you know, very often the jurisdictions don't have the 318 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 3: database of the other jurisdiction. They're not talking to the 319 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 3: other jurisdictions. No, ill will, They're just you know, that's 320 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 3: not what they're doing their own thing, right, Yeah, that's 321 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 3: even another state, Colorado, Oklahoma, Kansas. And they leave Elkhart 322 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 3: and they travel about forty five minutes, about sixteen miles. 323 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 3: I don't know why that took forty five minutes, but 324 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 3: it was a forty five minute drive at nine am. 325 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 3: They should have gotten there to get her two children 326 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 3: for a birthday party at the Four Corners Trading Company. 327 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 3: They never made it, so that's just the car is 328 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 3: spotted at ten three miles from the destination in one 329 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 3: hour over what hour they leave at nine. The car 330 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 3: is spot at a band at ten, and a witness 331 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 3: states that the on the driver's side, I don't know 332 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 3: if it's the front of the back on the driver's 333 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 3: side window was bashed in. It's a blue Kia or 334 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 3: Toyota suv, and law enforcement says evidence in the car 335 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 3: tells them it's foul play. That's what I know right now. 336 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 3: I also know that there was bad blood between one 337 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,719 Speaker 3: of the moms. One's a preacher wife, the other it's 338 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 3: the other one, the younger one, the twenty seven year 339 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 3: old that was going to have the birthday party with 340 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 3: the children that she had set up. There was bad 341 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 3: blood between her and her ex. And it was the 342 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:48,479 Speaker 3: ex's mother, a grandma, paternal grandma, was coming to meet her. 343 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 3: So I got to figure out, was this random ount 344 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 3: in the middle of the country like where we grew up, 345 00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 3: is you know, a carjacker there? Probably not, which means 346 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 3: this is somebody that knew them and knew they were 347 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 3: going to that birthday party. Sake that RaSE Cheryl McCallum. 348 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 3: That certainly narrows the suspect pool, right. 349 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: It narrows it greatly. And I mean to me again. 350 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: The obvious person to look at is the person that 351 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: she's having the issue with with custody, her eggs. She's 352 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: got four children. When law enforcement says, we have every 353 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: reason to believe they're in danger, there is something in 354 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: that car, whether it's. 355 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 3: If they're still if they're still alive, I've got the 356 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 3: polygrapher calling in. I love you, but I gotta go. 357 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 2: Love you, go, go, go bye, buddy. Just like a 358 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 2: rodeo roundup. 359 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,959 Speaker 1: Nancy is fast and furious, and when she says pull, 360 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: I mean she's got to go. So she got a 361 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: phone call from the polygrapher regarding the stepdad with Sebastian Rogers, 362 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: so she had to go. She is not going to 363 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: let any grass grow under her feet ever. So hopefully 364 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 1: we will have an update for y'all on Sebastian next Friday, 365 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: and we're going to be all week trying to put 366 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 1: information out about Veronica Butler and Jilly and Kelly, and 367 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: hopefully law enforcement is going to be able to track 368 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: some things down and locate where these two ladies are. 369 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 2: Y'all. 370 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: I appreciate y'all being with us another week with the 371 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: True Crime Roundup. 372 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 2: I'm Cheryl McCollum, and that was Nancy Grace