Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories, Dunner.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, welcome to That's messed Up. But I'm Kara Klank,
Speaker 1: I'm Lee's a trigger. We talk SVU crimes interviews. We've
Speaker 1: got it all.
Speaker 2: Baby LA's Hottest club and it truly is this town sucks.
Speaker 4: No's hottest club is That's messed up.
Speaker 2: We're so thrilled that we have another week jam packed episode.
Speaker 2: Am I scared for how you are going to react
Speaker 2: to this episode?
Speaker 4: I am. I can't not gonna lie. Everybody go easy
Speaker 4: on Lisa.
Speaker 1: She's really just trying to look at everything with a
Speaker 1: critical eye, and I respect that. Yeah, I would like
Speaker 1: everyone to know I have had dozens of you reach
Speaker 1: out to me telling me that it's okay to fire
Speaker 1: my therapist, and I want to let you know that
Speaker 1: I did do it.
Speaker 4: I did over texts.
Speaker 1: Tell my therapist, by the way, you missed my appointment
Speaker 1: yesterday and I think I'm gonna be pausing therapy for now.
Speaker 1: I didn't give her like a full rundown. She did
Speaker 1: try to come back and act like it was my fault.
Speaker 1: I did write her back and say, please look at
Speaker 1: the text messages above and you'll see that you're wrong,
Speaker 1: and she was like, oh my god, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: And then I just said thanks, thanks for understanding, and
Speaker 1: I just moved on. So I did not give full feedback,
Speaker 1: which a lot of you said I could do and
Speaker 1: would be the right thing to do. I couldn't do it,
Speaker 1: but I did not ghosts, so you know. And she
Speaker 1: wrote back and said here if you want to start it,
Speaker 1: here when you need me, or I'm here when you want.
Speaker 4: To start back up. So it was like a very clean, respectful.
Speaker 2: Break and you probably felt so free after. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was just talking to someone where it's like you
Speaker 2: can fuck up, but you have to just admit when
Speaker 2: you're wrong and apologize. And it seems like your therapist
Speaker 2: was not able to do that task, so should she
Speaker 2: be a therapist. I got a lot of people talking
Speaker 2: about my gluten. What I've learned is I have to
Speaker 2: stop talking about my physical and mental health ailments on
Speaker 2: the podcast because all of your advice is so lovely
Speaker 2: and great, but I will never do anything to improve
Speaker 2: my life.
Speaker 4: Okay. So I'm like, I.
Speaker 2: Have these issues and then I'm like, my have it
Speaker 2: and then you guys, well you can fix it, and
Speaker 2: I go, no, thank you.
Speaker 4: So I'm wasting your time. My time. So I think
Speaker 4: I have.
Speaker 2: To stop talking about because I'll go to the doctor.
Speaker 2: The doctor will give me what will help me, and
Speaker 2: then I won't do it. So, you know, one step
Speaker 2: at a time in personal growth, and one day I'll
Speaker 2: get to will you just put this lotion on?
Speaker 4: So but thank you?
Speaker 2: And then I'm eating croissants on Instagram Live. It's like
Speaker 2: I but I have cut back and I don't have bumps,
Speaker 2: so whatever. Okay, So someone tweeted this and I loved it,
Speaker 2: and I wish I just heard it down, but I
Speaker 2: want to give them credit. Maybe we'll post about it.
Speaker 2: But what would each detective order at Taco Bell SV?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I thought that was such a fun game. Did
Speaker 2: you see someone wrote that to us?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 4: I didn't. Maybe we'll play it at a later time.
Speaker 2: It's a lot to throw at you, Kara, and you're
Speaker 2: not even as familiar with the menu.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not. I heard so many.
Speaker 2: Options but I just we could also do a different
Speaker 2: type of place. But like, I like the idea of
Speaker 2: picking what our detectives would order at different fast food chains.
Speaker 4: No, that is fun. That is fun. I'm trying to think.
Speaker 4: I know it's too much, too soon. It is early.
Speaker 4: We're wild women. I mean, I'd love to hear a
Speaker 4: couple of throw a couple at me.
Speaker 1: I think I kind of understand the difference between like
Speaker 1: a Chimney Changa and a Gordita and like a Supreme
Speaker 1: run for sure.
Speaker 2: But I didn't even I wrote it down to talk about,
Speaker 2: but I didn't even plan. But right now I'm thinking
Speaker 2: Benson goes for a crun trap Supreme when she needs
Speaker 2: a real treat, like I think she goes for that.
Speaker 2: I think if it's quick on the go, she might
Speaker 2: do the protein menuo or get like a simple like
Speaker 2: a hard and like a soft shell hardshell taco with
Speaker 2: chicken meal, because I think she I think she keeps
Speaker 2: it tight. I think Marushika watches what she eats. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Rollins doesn't, because Rollins forgets to eat and then she
Speaker 2: just eats a giant chicken sandwich. That's Rollin's. That's why
Speaker 2: she's so erratic. We have friends like that where they're
Speaker 2: such a bitch and then they we realize they haven't
Speaker 2: eaten all day and it's like, okay, well see.
Speaker 1: And Rollin's at three am smoking a cig at a
Speaker 1: casino blackjack table go and hit me like, I mean.
Speaker 4: Yes, I had cigarettes?
Speaker 3: You No?
Speaker 1: Oh you did? Yeah?
Speaker 2: The moment you said it, I was like, Oh, I
Speaker 2: had two cigarettes?
Speaker 4: I shir did I s Did you probably have two cigarettes?
Speaker 4: Like a month?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 4: You don't smoke a lot?
Speaker 2: No, but I feel it like the actually don't feel
Speaker 2: it today. No, I just the moment.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. It's like, is it a moral failure?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 4: I loved it.
Speaker 2: I loved smoking the cigarettes. It felt so good. But
Speaker 2: when you're hanging out with someone late into the night,
Speaker 2: if they're smoking cigarettes, you're gonna smoke a cigarette.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I or not?
Speaker 1: Some of you you know I'm from I'm a I'm
Speaker 1: a former big smoker. I personally can't dabble because I
Speaker 1: know I'll slide right back into hiding packs from Jared
Speaker 1: like that that will happen within weeks.
Speaker 2: Did you quit when you started dating Jared or did
Speaker 2: you quit before you met I was quit.
Speaker 1: When I met Jared, I had quit, and then I
Speaker 1: started a little bit because he smoked, and I was like, oh.
Speaker 4: I mean, like, do you want to go outside? You know,
Speaker 4: like whatever.
Speaker 1: We were dating, and then I fully quit for five years.
Speaker 1: Soon into us dating, I quit for five years. And
Speaker 1: then my bachelorette party is where my friend started forcing
Speaker 1: me to smoke cigarettes.
Speaker 4: They were like, you've been quit for five years, who cares?
Speaker 1: And then I sloped down that slope pretty quick and
Speaker 1: I was buying packs, hiding them, sneaking out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very Carrie Bradshaw of you. Yeah you're Carrie and Misty.
Speaker 2: How do you feel that yet?
Speaker 4: But I'm quit now like years without really any cheating.
Speaker 1: Like I cheated at a bacherette party that you and
Speaker 1: I were both at, and I took two drags and
Speaker 1: I was like this was a mistake because I was
Speaker 1: extremely drunk, and I was like, this was a bad idea.
Speaker 4: And then I like, I really barely ever changed.
Speaker 2: I think we had the same thing at that bachelorette
Speaker 2: party where we went so hard Friday that Saturday, I
Speaker 2: could barely even look at liquor. Yeaike, I was mostly
Speaker 2: eating those little Munster Hawaiian bread.
Speaker 1: I remember having full conversations with you at like the
Speaker 1: club because you and I were like sober yea. And
Speaker 1: then I had to escort one of our friends home
Speaker 1: because she was too blacked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I procured the Mollie and then wouldn't take it,
Speaker 2: and I people did try to bully me into taking it,
Speaker 2: and I was like, no, I'm not in the mood
Speaker 2: for malli.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 2: Someone did write us a while ago saying that they
Speaker 2: don't like that we promote drug use. Well, get with it, bitch.
Speaker 2: How do you like that we do drugs here? We
Speaker 2: do drugs on this podcast in this house Lives Matter,
Speaker 2: and we.
Speaker 1: Do drugs, and this house Black Lives Matter, we do
Speaker 1: recreational drugs.
Speaker 4: Let's get one of those posters.
Speaker 2: See what else do we do?
Speaker 4: And we watch SVU.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I met someone new yesterday and they talked
Speaker 2: about SVU in a way I didn't like, to the
Speaker 2: point where I went, I don't think this is working.
Speaker 4: I don't like the vibe.
Speaker 1: And I.
Speaker 4: Ended the hangout very early.
Speaker 1: Ah.
Speaker 2: They were just talking about SVU in a way where
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I don't I don't think this
Speaker 2: is gonna work, just being like, isn't that funny, And
Speaker 2: it's like, no, it's actually heartbreaking. So I don't think
Speaker 2: we're gonna that's not funny at all.
Speaker 1: They were like talking about the show in like a
Speaker 1: flippant way kind.
Speaker 2: Of yeah, and it was like it was Careese's family
Speaker 2: and it was like, oh, Caresee's dumb sister and that
Speaker 2: fat brother in law and all of that. And he
Speaker 2: was like and she was like laughing, and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I care about Coreesy and his family, and yeah, like that.
Speaker 1: Brother in law was getting sexually assaulted and it's important
Speaker 1: that we tell stories about men getting sexually assaulted too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was wild. It was just like I'm out,
Speaker 2: I'm out. I can't have you talking about SVU in
Speaker 2: this way.
Speaker 4: Wasn't it Susan Sharon. It was Susan. It wasn't just
Speaker 4: another thing.
Speaker 2: It was like Susan Sharon gave us a performance and
Speaker 2: it was a great episode and it's about people trying
Speaker 2: their best and getting out of the system. And it
Speaker 2: wasn't funny, and there were funny moments in that episode.
Speaker 2: So I was just like, I gotta this isn't gonna work. Wow.
Speaker 1: If you are somebody who has also kicked someone out
Speaker 1: of your house or life because of their views on
Speaker 1: sv Please dm us.
Speaker 2: There were other moments, there were other like it was,
Speaker 2: and then that was the one that was like I
Speaker 2: gotta go, Yeah, you gotta go. And I think our
Speaker 2: listener we have to keep the short and I think
Speaker 2: our listeners will appreciate that outside shoes touched my bread
Speaker 2: spread and I had to go get your shoes off
Speaker 2: my bed, and that was a bit crazy. It's crazy.
Speaker 2: That's when I was like, that was the moment. It
Speaker 2: was just like a lot of mom.
Speaker 1: You've got to ask people if you're even allowed to
Speaker 1: wear shoes into their house to their floor.
Speaker 4: I know, but I love it. It's hard. I live
Speaker 4: in a room, so.
Speaker 1: Well sure, but you just in the bed. I'm just
Speaker 1: saying the bedspread is ten levels away from the floor
Speaker 1: and should never even be approached.
Speaker 2: It's a problem. Well, listen, let's get in there.
Speaker 1: We do have a super sized episode today, lots of info,
Speaker 1: so we're gonna I know, you guys are like talk
Speaker 1: as long as you want, but truly, this is a
Speaker 1: big one.
Speaker 4: So we're gonna keep that episode because we.
Speaker 2: Have a famous crime, we have an outstanding guest, and
Speaker 2: we have a classic episode that is a three hour trifecta.
Speaker 2: So yeah, love you guys.
Speaker 1: All right, this is Tragedy Season five, episode one, the
Speaker 1: season five opener.
Speaker 4: Everyone.
Speaker 1: The show is really hitting its stride, and I read
Speaker 1: that this episode marks svu's move to Tuesday nights at
Speaker 1: ten o'clock from Friday nights, and Friday nights is usually
Speaker 1: where they send TV shows to die. So I think
Speaker 1: they probably started SVU on Friday nights because of like
Speaker 1: the subject matter, and now season five it's kicking ass
Speaker 1: and they're moving it to Tuesday nights where it can
Speaker 1: really pick up some fans. And obviously I'm not talking
Speaker 1: about TGIF for Friday nights.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because if I was thinking that silently here, I
Speaker 2: know all of you were, yeah, excuse me, the teenage witch.
Speaker 4: No no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Like family programming obviously huge, but like if you have
Speaker 1: a show, a favorite show, and it moves to Fridays,
Speaker 1: starts saying you're goodbyes, it's it's probably getting canceled. So
Speaker 1: we open on a nine to one one operator taking
Speaker 1: a call. She can't really hear anyone on the other
Speaker 1: end of the line at first, but then she hears
Speaker 1: an altercation where a guy's like telling a woman to
Speaker 1: start the car.
Speaker 4: She's crying.
Speaker 1: They can tell that she's probably dropped her cell phone
Speaker 1: and that she's getting carjacked. And there's no location, only
Speaker 1: a cell phone number, and it is a nine one
Speaker 1: seven number. And I would just like to say that
Speaker 1: I always deeply coveted a nine one seven number when
Speaker 1: I moved to New York because that was the first
Speaker 1: exchange after two one two that you could get. And
Speaker 1: I got six four to six, which is, you know, set,
Speaker 1: it's the third one, it's just not the second one.
Speaker 1: And so we hear the guy say I'm not going
Speaker 1: to kill you. I've got something else in mind, and
Speaker 1: it's like okay, and then the operator goes, sweet mother
Speaker 1: of God, it's the carjack rapist. And that's credits. Maybe
Speaker 1: the fastest credits we've ever gotten to. It's one minute,
Speaker 1: one full minute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think the older ones were shorter. They've
Speaker 2: gotten longer and longer. Yeah yeah, yeah, Now you can
Speaker 2: go to four locations.
Speaker 1: I'm writing a page and a half of notes before
Speaker 1: we're hitting credits these days. Yeah, But then it's really
Speaker 1: great the end of these credits, it's like, such a
Speaker 1: good crew.
Speaker 4: It's the whole original crew.
Speaker 1: Plus I've count iced Tea as original uh and then
Speaker 1: in cabit, so it's a really fun, really fun crew.
Speaker 1: So Act one we open on our buddy Ruben Morales
Speaker 1: aka Terreu aka Joel de la Fuente, and he is
Speaker 1: playing the call for Benson and Stabler and they just
Speaker 1: are like bending us over and giving us the exposition
Speaker 1: as usual. They're like, we've been after this guy for
Speaker 1: a month. He blitzed his first four victims from behind,
Speaker 1: then he knocks them out, rapes him, and steals their car.
Speaker 1: Something must have gone wrong, like why does this? Why
Speaker 1: did we haven't found the woman or there hasn't been
Speaker 1: you know. So they're like, can we enhance the voice
Speaker 1: and it's like not really because that doesn't exist. But
Speaker 1: Terru's like, I'll try and see what I can do,
Speaker 1: and they're like what about location? And they're able to
Speaker 1: find a couple towers that pinged off of, but it
Speaker 1: only narrows it down to thirty blocks and Stabler's like, well,
Speaker 1: if the city had enhanced nine to one to one
Speaker 1: for cell phones, we know exactly where this happened, which
Speaker 1: is sort of shading NYC. But I'm also assuming that
Speaker 1: they get this, like at least it's season or two later,
Speaker 1: because we've seen hundreds of episodes where they track a
Speaker 1: cell phone as it's moving across the city. So anyway,
Speaker 1: they do find one good piece of information, which is
Speaker 1: that the cell phone belonging to the victim is one
Speaker 1: of eighteen cell phones.
Speaker 4: Least to the Studio Arts League.
Speaker 1: So on the next scene, we open up with the
Speaker 1: legend Magda from Sex and the City Lynn Cohen. Very
Speaker 1: exciting and yeah, and she's a wonderful actress who has
Speaker 1: been on two episodes of SVU and died right before
Speaker 1: the pandemic in February of twenty twenty. And honestly, I'm
Speaker 1: jealous of her anyway, take that back, just saying she
Speaker 1: got to miss out on COVID. That's kind of nice
Speaker 1: now she had.
Speaker 2: Her other SVU episode's iconic. She's like a meatball maven murderer. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so yeah, it's the best.
Speaker 1: But here she's like this fun, easy, breezy like art lady.
Speaker 1: Clearly has like a second home in Santa fe Like
Speaker 1: it's very fun, and she's got like long flowing hair,
Speaker 1: and she's explaining like what the artists collectives, what the
Speaker 1: artists in this whole collective do? And she tells them
Speaker 1: that the cell phone belongs to Anica Bergeron, who's a painter,
Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, we need her address, and she's like, okay,
Speaker 1: she lived by Thompson Square Park and then she drops
Speaker 1: the bomb that Anica is home on bed rest because
Speaker 1: she's pregnant and do in two weeks with a high
Speaker 1: risk pregnancy dunt dunn, pretty crazy, Okay.
Speaker 4: So they go to her.
Speaker 1: Apartment and the super is all vary when you're here
Speaker 1: your family, like, He's like, we all look out for
Speaker 1: each other. I checked on Onnica last night at nine o'clock.
Speaker 1: I've never heard of this building. I don't know where
Speaker 1: this building exists where everybody's looking out for each other
Speaker 1: and the super comes to check on you, but here
Speaker 1: we are. He also says she has a car. It's
Speaker 1: a big black Tahoe and I really hope they get
Speaker 1: to the bottom of that because that's an absolutely untenable
Speaker 1: car to have in New York City unless you drive
Speaker 1: for a car service. And Benson and Stable are like,
Speaker 1: why would she go out maybe she got a call
Speaker 1: dump the Luds. Could that have been an alternative name
Speaker 1: for our podcast, Dump the Luods? I just love the phrase,
Speaker 1: But what.
Speaker 4: Does luds mean? I don't get it the luds.
Speaker 1: I think luds, hold on, hold on luds stands for something.
Speaker 1: It stands for like local usage details that would fit
Speaker 1: our podcast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we talk about details all the time, local and global.
Speaker 1: Yeah, dump the Luds an SBU podcast. Okay, if anyone
Speaker 1: ever comes for our name. So the super SSS he
Speaker 1: hasn't seen any guy around the apartment since Daniel Lester
Speaker 1: moved out her ex boyfriend.
Speaker 4: He was a carpenter.
Speaker 1: And in true SVU fashion, this super knows exactly where
Speaker 1: his tenants ex boyfriend works and where that is located.
Speaker 1: So it's like, oh, he works at this place that's
Speaker 1: a fancy Granville construction whatever. So they go talk to Daniel.
Speaker 1: He looks concerned. He says him and on Agar are
Speaker 1: not in touch. Munch random emails like he knows nothing
Speaker 1: about a baby, and then in walks quite the pair.
Speaker 1: It's Kelly Martin of life goes on Fame, who I'm
Speaker 1: sure you've seen in something else. I mean, she's in
Speaker 1: tons of stuff and Shirley Knight, who has one hundred
Speaker 1: and eighty two fucking credits on IMTB.
Speaker 4: She's so prolific.
Speaker 1: You've seen her in something for sure, But what I
Speaker 1: recognize her from always it always is in my mind.
Speaker 1: For some reason, was a nineteen ninety five TV movie
Speaker 1: about the McMartin family called Indictment The McMartin Trial. Do
Speaker 1: you remember hearing about the McMartin family. No, I was
Speaker 1: just about to ask, what is that They ran a
Speaker 1: daycare and they got accused of molesting the children in
Speaker 1: the daycare and they didn't do anything. It was a
Speaker 1: full witch hunt. It was one of those things that
Speaker 1: svu's actually done it before where the kids were all
Speaker 1: just talking to their parents and picking up cues from
Speaker 1: their parents, and their parents were like, didn't something happen,
Speaker 1: and didn't this happen? And so all these kids started
Speaker 1: saying that something happened and nothing had happened. This was
Speaker 1: just like a family and their lives got ruined and
Speaker 1: it was like a full huge case. In the nineties,
Speaker 1: I think I think the movies were all in the nineties,
Speaker 1: like the TV movies about it.
Speaker 4: But she was a member very Children's Hour.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I remember her so well from this movie
Speaker 1: that I watched when I was, you know, like a kid.
Speaker 2: So anyway, this woman, surely Night I recognize from this
Speaker 2: episode because it is that iconic of a perforements and
Speaker 2: I just love that she looks wealthy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we have not mentioned that either.
Speaker 1: Like, this episode to me is like top ten iconic episodes,
Speaker 1: Like I always think of this episode. I've seen it
Speaker 1: probably at least ten times. But it was cool to
Speaker 1: rewatch it, especially now as someone who has given birth.
Speaker 4: So we'll get into that later.
Speaker 1: Anyway, these two blow in and they are clearly mother
Speaker 1: and daughter. They come into the room, the mom is
Speaker 1: blathering about flowers, so obviously there's some kind of wedding
Speaker 1: in the works, and that we are introduced to them
Speaker 1: as Rose and Melinda Granville. Melinda the younger is Kelly
Speaker 1: Martin is Daniel's fiance, and Rose Granville, the mother is
Speaker 1: his boss, so she owns this, you know, lucrative Construction
Speaker 1: Contracting Company or whatever it is. Daniel gives the cops
Speaker 1: that contact info for Laura, who is Anica's sister who
Speaker 1: lives in Jersey. Okay, now they're talking to Laura, and
Speaker 1: she's like, Anica doesn't own a car. The tahoe is mine,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, that makes much more sense that
Speaker 1: a person from New Jersey would own a tahoe, not
Speaker 1: a person living in Manhattan. And then here is where
Speaker 1: I pieced together that this sister Laura is played by
Speaker 1: an actress named Marissa Ryan, who plays Abby Bernstein, one
Speaker 1: of my all time favorite characters in Wet Hot American Summer.
Speaker 4: What a blessing.
Speaker 2: It's amazing. Yeah, one of the best movies ever. And
Speaker 2: I wonder if her and Maloney went down memory lane.
Speaker 4: You know that's so true. Yes, that's so true.
Speaker 2: I wonder if they hugged, if they ate some brown
Speaker 2: rice together during lunch, like.
Speaker 4: Yes, what the vibe was?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, okay, so Wet Hot would have come out
Speaker 1: two thousand and one. Ah okay, so two years later
Speaker 1: there were united. I wonder if he got her the job.
Speaker 1: I wonder if he's like, there's this great girl, Abby Burns.
Speaker 2: Sure that it was like a really bonding set like I,
Speaker 2: you know, and everyone was making each other laugh. It
Speaker 2: was so many like young people about to pop Elizabeth
Speaker 2: Banks pull right like I.
Speaker 4: It just was I bet they became friends.
Speaker 2: I'm yeah, I wish we could find out how they
Speaker 2: interacted on this set together.
Speaker 4: But it's exciting.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm I just like love this character in the
Speaker 1: movie so much like my sister and I and my
Speaker 1: friends from camp, like we always go don't go, Like
Speaker 1: it's like this line she has, like and like, you know,
Speaker 1: Ken Marino's always like wait for me, Abby Burnstein. So
Speaker 1: like this is if you watch that movie, this is
Speaker 1: a fun little easter egg for you. So basically Abby
Speaker 1: Burnstein slash. Anica's sister Laura is telling Benson and Stabler
Speaker 1: that the father of the baby is.
Speaker 4: A one night stand.
Speaker 1: He's not in the picture, and she's like, Anica's like
Speaker 1: so excited to be a mom. This baby's all she
Speaker 1: ever talks about. So yikes, we're not like this isn't
Speaker 1: like a great picture that's being painted here. Back at
Speaker 1: the precinct, Ice is definitely looking at the glass half dead.
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, maybe the guy freaked when she was pregnant,
Speaker 1: killed or dumped her body and took the car to
Speaker 1: a chop shop. And they're like, okay, Finn, let's proceed
Speaker 1: as if she's alive and then Anica's obigu I N
Speaker 1: shows up to like raise the stakes through the roof,
Speaker 1: and he's like, Honica cannot deliver that baby vaginally. She
Speaker 1: has placenta previa, which is where the placenta blocks the
Speaker 1: birth canal. This girl needs to have a c section
Speaker 1: and if she goes into labor it would basically kill
Speaker 1: both of them.
Speaker 4: Okay, so now the tension is high.
Speaker 1: This is one of those countdown episodes that I don't
Speaker 1: think you like, but this is where we are.
Speaker 4: I like them.
Speaker 2: I just the ones I hate are only when they
Speaker 2: go to talk to an old man who committed crime.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, to find versus secrets, you know, I don't like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, before he dies, before the statute delimitations runs out.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: A pregnant woman in distress my favorite.
Speaker 1: So they get a call that Morales got something off
Speaker 1: the tape and they are they rush to Taru and
Speaker 1: figure that out. He basically has isolated all the noises
Speaker 1: on the call and figured out from like the sounds
Speaker 1: of honks and the sounds of turn signals and noises
Speaker 1: that they are somewhere by the FDR, which is the
Speaker 1: highway that runs up the east side of Manhattan. So
Speaker 1: now they basically are at some area by the FDR
Speaker 1: that they think looks like a good place to ditch
Speaker 1: a car. Barnaby, the dog picks up a scent and
Speaker 1: there's track marks on the ground like there was another
Speaker 1: car there, But none of this matches them of the
Speaker 1: car jack rapist. And also where is the car, like
Speaker 1: if she was taken into another car, where is her car?
Speaker 1: And they're like, maybe it got towed. There's a towing
Speaker 1: sign right there that says no parking any time. So
Speaker 1: now yes, we're at the impound the car was towed,
Speaker 1: and Stabler's talking about how this might be a copycat as.
Speaker 4: He, you know, expertly.
Speaker 1: Jimmy's the window open because Stabler knows how to do everything.
Speaker 1: So Benson says, somebody targeted Anica, called her, lured her
Speaker 1: out of her apartment, kidnapped her. This was all planned.
Speaker 1: When they get into the car, the driver's seat sadly
Speaker 1: is soaked in blood, and CSU technician Judith Ciper is there,
Speaker 1: whose niece listens to our podcast What Up Girl, And
Speaker 1: she's walking us through all the forensics and she's basically like, okay,
Speaker 1: so what happened was Anica drove the car while the
Speaker 1: perp directed her from the passenger seat, so he put
Speaker 1: his hand on the back of her head rest, but
Speaker 1: he was wearing gloves. He's kind of smarter than your
Speaker 1: average dumb dumb And there are no prints, and she
Speaker 1: says she'll have more info in a couple of hours,
Speaker 1: but this can't wait. In walks CSU technician Bert Trevor
Speaker 1: aka Daniel Sunjada explaining that the blood is Anica's, that
Speaker 1: there's no amniotic fluid, so she's not in labor. But
Speaker 1: with the amount of blood that she has already lost,
Speaker 1: she's got thirty six hours until her and the baby
Speaker 1: both die. Put thirty six hours up on the clock.
Speaker 1: So tough news to hear out of such a hot mouth.
Speaker 1: But here we are moving.
Speaker 2: And I mean, Melinda Warner, all the CSU texts, their
Speaker 2: whole job is like to lead the case for like
Speaker 2: give a big clue. But his, for some reason or
Speaker 2: the most magical of all, I don't know. He's usually
Speaker 2: just comes in drops a bah I'm Lee's and maybe
Speaker 2: I'm paying closer attention because he's so hot, But like
Speaker 2: his scenes to me always seem like the news is
Speaker 2: always high stakes, exciting or a spin or I don't know.
Speaker 4: I like I like Burt.
Speaker 2: And remember, if you guys remember Joel de la Fuente,
Speaker 2: he said that when he joined the cast that he
Speaker 2: was supposed to play Bert Trevor, and they changed the
Speaker 2: name to accommodate his but somebody obviously still had a
Speaker 2: boner for the name Bert Trevor. Yeah, he brought in
Speaker 2: another guy to play Birt Trevor. So, which is Burt
Speaker 2: Trevor is a very like TV name, I feel like.
Speaker 2: But so the top of that two, Craigan's like, what's
Speaker 2: the motive? Like what's going on here?
Speaker 1: They're all like they're kind of teasing out, like what
Speaker 1: the story is. You're like, what could be going on?
Speaker 1: And Craigan goes, pregnancy elevates a woman's risk of intimate
Speaker 1: partner violence. Just in case you needed any more proof
Speaker 1: that being a woman is fucking awful. Everybody, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is the information that we're getting from Craigan that when
Speaker 1: you're pregnant.
Speaker 2: I thought people just like cheat on their pregnant wives.
Speaker 2: They didn't realize they start fucking hitting and murdering them.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I think so for sure.
Speaker 1: So liv suggests that maybe she got snatched for her baby,
Speaker 1: but like, still, there's no way that somebody who was
Speaker 1: on the prow for a baby just stumbled upon Anica
Speaker 1: on the street at three in the morning, you know.
Speaker 4: Ready to pop. So basically the luds have been dumped.
Speaker 1: And at three sixteen am, Anica got a call from
Speaker 1: a payphone a couple blocks from her apartment, and then
Speaker 1: that was fifteen minutes before the nine one one call,
Speaker 1: so this is all matching up. So then she made
Speaker 1: an outgoing call to a car service. They said they
Speaker 1: sent a car for her for an out of town fair,
Speaker 1: but that Anica never showed up. So she also signed
Speaker 1: online I went to map it now, which is an
Speaker 1: lol name for map quest, and then she looked up
Speaker 1: driving directions to Passic Hospital and Passaic, New Jerseys, where
Speaker 1: her sister lives.
Speaker 4: So she obviously called the car service.
Speaker 1: Then thought, oh, I could get there faster if I drove,
Speaker 1: and then just decided to like map quest it and
Speaker 1: head on out to Jersey yourself. So now they've brought
Speaker 1: the sister in. Abby Bernstein is back and she's like
Speaker 1: denying that she had anything to do with this, and
Speaker 1: she also confesses that she hasn't talked to Anica in
Speaker 1: a few weeks because they got into a fight, even
Speaker 1: though she had previously told them that she had just
Speaker 1: talked to her a few days ago. So it turns
Speaker 1: out Sissy's had some money troubles. Anica's been giving her
Speaker 1: half her paychecks. I love my sister, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: The credit cards are maxed out. Bankruptcy looks like it's
Speaker 1: definitely in the cards for this woman. And she says, look,
Speaker 1: my ex was a con artist. He ran up all
Speaker 1: these bills. Then he bounced. Why would I hurt Anica
Speaker 1: if Anica's like helping me? And she's like, maybe you're
Speaker 1: was like, oh, let's squeez a little bit more money
Speaker 1: out of Honica, and she's like, he's locked up in Arizona.
Speaker 1: It's not him, and then lives like, all right, Spilett,
Speaker 1: who's the father of the baby. And she's like, I
Speaker 1: promise I wouldn't tell. Okay, back and forth, Okay, it's
Speaker 1: Daniel Lester. All right, we're not casting Kelly Martin and
Speaker 1: Shirley Knight for no reason. Everyone they weren't just like
Speaker 1: gone in the first act of the show. They're back,
Speaker 1: So they go to talk to Daniel, who's walking around
Speaker 1: with an open robe, just shirtless in front of the cops,
Speaker 1: and he's like, I have an alibi.
Speaker 4: I was in Boston. Why would I kill her?
Speaker 1: And they're like, because she's carrying your child and you're
Speaker 1: about to marry another woman. And he's like, it's my baby.
Speaker 1: Like he has no idea, but you do believe him.
Speaker 1: So they're basically like, you guys broke up fourteen months ago.
Speaker 1: She's eight months pregnant. Clearly there was some post breakup dabbling,
Speaker 1: and he's like, I went over to pick up some
Speaker 1: tax receipts. We had a drink, then another drink. We
Speaker 1: fucked like it was like just whatever. We just laughed
Speaker 1: about it. The reason they broke up originally was that
Speaker 1: they fought about money. Thought he was selling out because
Speaker 1: she thought being a starving artist was cool, and he
Speaker 1: was like, peace, I want money, And they were like,
Speaker 1: so does your fiance know about this like one night
Speaker 1: indiscretion you had and he's like no, but I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have to tell her, and then cut to Melinda his
Speaker 1: fiance Kelly Martin in a full silk nightie and matching robe,
Speaker 1: and she's like, you don't have to tell me. So
Speaker 1: now back at the precinct, Benson his stabler are like,
Speaker 1: this dude could have easily used this Boston trip as
Speaker 1: an alibi and come back to New York.
Speaker 4: It's a four hour trip.
Speaker 1: He could have gotten rid Ofvonica so that she doesn't
Speaker 1: fuck up his plans to marry into a rich family.
Speaker 1: And Finn's like, guess who has a rap sheet? Daniel assaults,
Speaker 1: disorderly conduct, et cetera. This guy's oh yeah, crazy. So
Speaker 1: they walk into the precinct and there's like a full
Speaker 1: phone bank happening, and Kragan's in his like Sunday bests,
Speaker 1: like little pins and bobs with his navy suit, and
Speaker 1: he's like, one pp wants to go public. There's only
Speaker 1: twenty four five hours left save Anica. So we got
Speaker 1: twenty five hours on the clock. Now they're like, we're
Speaker 1: doing a press conference. We're putting her face on the media.
Speaker 1: Anica's sisters ready to go out and cry for the cameras.
Speaker 1: So there's a whole press conference going on. You know,
Speaker 1: car shows up, very reminiscent of Bully when.
Speaker 4: She shows up. I just love that scene so much.
Speaker 1: When she shows up and everyone's screaming at her, and
Speaker 1: a car rolls up and it's Rose Granville Shirley Night,
Speaker 1: and she shows up to speak to the reporters and
Speaker 1: she's like, Granville Developers wants to offer a one hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars reward, and she knows all about the baby
Speaker 1: and says, my daughter loves Daniel and that matters more
Speaker 1: to me than his one little you know, fuck up
Speaker 1: so well.
Speaker 2: And they're wasps, and I feel like wasps, very like
Speaker 2: the McDougall family and Sex in the City, like you
Speaker 2: can like, yeah, they slide problems under the room.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you can cheat.
Speaker 1: And also like a reunion hookup with an X eight
Speaker 1: months ago is different than like, oh, he was out
Speaker 1: patronizing sex workers or doing something that would bring more
Speaker 1: shame to the family, you know, in their words, not mine.
Speaker 1: So they're back at the precinct and Stablers goes, oh,
Speaker 1: they ripped a page from the OJ playbook posting a
Speaker 1: reward for the real killer. So he obviously thinks Daniel
Speaker 1: did it, and that this family's being like, we'll find
Speaker 1: the real killer. And I didn't even know that OJ
Speaker 1: did that. OJ probably put a reward up and was like,
Speaker 1: help me find the real killer even though I did it.
Speaker 1: So Finn gets a call from a guy, like a
Speaker 1: tip from this tip line. Everybody's answering phones and Finn
Speaker 1: gets a call from this guy and they're like, He's like,
Speaker 1: I think this is a legit tip.
Speaker 4: He knew Daniel Lester was the father.
Speaker 1: And they're like, did you set a meat And he's
Speaker 1: like two hours at the pedestrian island on sixth and
Speaker 1: fourth Avenue and the guy said Daniel has to bring
Speaker 1: the money, okay. So then they're strapping Daniel with a
Speaker 1: bulletproof vest telling him what to do. Rose brings the
Speaker 1: money in in a briefcase or whatever, and then Daniel
Speaker 1: is standing in the middle of the street like on
Speaker 1: the pedestrian island.
Speaker 4: And I don't.
Speaker 1: Understand why people always think the cops are not coming
Speaker 1: to a ransom drop, like you just you have to
Speaker 1: figure out a different way to hand off ransom money.
Speaker 1: There needs to be like wiring to an account in
Speaker 1: the Cayman or something like that, Like the cops are
Speaker 1: always going to be at the ransom drop. And so
Speaker 1: this random dude starts making his way to Daniel he's
Speaker 1: like generically sketchy looking. So he walks up to him
Speaker 1: and he goes give me the money, and Daniel's like,
Speaker 1: where's Anica. They have a full scuffle and then oopsie Daisy.
Speaker 1: He pushes this man into the street, where he proceeds
Speaker 1: to get fully mauled by a town car and pretty
Speaker 1: much dies right there on the street with Olivia Benson
Speaker 1: going Where'sonica, Where'sonica?
Speaker 4: And he's like, you know gone.
Speaker 2: So recently saw Ronnie Ching reposted this video and it
Speaker 2: was two guys in New York fighting on the subway
Speaker 2: platform and one guy fell into the tracks and the
Speaker 2: guy he was fighting with went picked him up.
Speaker 4: They like hugged.
Speaker 2: He was like thanks for saving me, and then they
Speaker 2: started fighting again, like in each other's faces, and he
Speaker 2: and Ronnie wrote like this is New York in a
Speaker 2: nutshell where it's like we might hate you, but I'll
Speaker 2: pull you out of this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna let you get run over by a
Speaker 1: subway car, but then I'm.
Speaker 4: Gonna don't care about that.
Speaker 2: We're fighting again, like it's just so beautiful place.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So basically at the top of back three, we're figuring
Speaker 1: out suck you Daniel.
Speaker 4: Yes, why did you do that? Let's send to the cops.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I think that they set up that he
Speaker 1: has a rap sheet to show you that he's got.
Speaker 4: Like a temper.
Speaker 1: You know that this is like because you before that
Speaker 1: you have this idea that this is just this like
Speaker 1: nice guy that works at like a construction company, and
Speaker 1: like you know, now he's like you get the temper
Speaker 1: thing because he just pushed a guy into fucking moving traffic.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: And the guy's name is Greg Jessic and he's basically
Speaker 1: muscle for hire. He like posts himself in like like
Speaker 1: crazy gun magazines being like hey, I'll do weird jobs
Speaker 1: for you, like kill people. And then he was obviously
Speaker 1: Paige paid to statch Anika.
Speaker 4: And now they've got nineteen hours.
Speaker 1: So they go to Jesse's apartment and Stabler's like what
Speaker 1: a dump And it is pretty gross, and there's tons
Speaker 1: of pictures of Onnica, like tons and tons, like he's
Speaker 1: been surveilling her. They find like meticulous records of what
Speaker 1: she does every day, like he's been clearly tailing her
Speaker 1: and writing down her every move, and they find records
Speaker 1: of two Western Union payments that came from a bank
Speaker 1: in the Caymans, and the Caymans unfortunately won't tell you
Speaker 1: shit about who owns accounts. They're very that's why people
Speaker 1: have accounts in the Caymans, because they're doing sketchy shit.
Speaker 1: So it turns out that Jessic they probably dumped the
Speaker 1: Luds again, and Jesic got a phone call from Sing Sing,
Speaker 1: which is where he had recently done time. So they
Speaker 1: go to This has a lot of locations in this
Speaker 1: episode too. It's like we're here, we're there, We're everywhere.
Speaker 4: So they go to Sing Sing.
Speaker 1: They're talking to the warden or whatever, and he's like
Speaker 1: the guy who called his name Sam Marlette. He hasn't
Speaker 1: had he hasn't had any visitors lately except for one
Speaker 1: Daniel Lester, And they go talk to Sam Marlette and
Speaker 1: he's like, Daniel always looked out for me. I'll die
Speaker 1: in jail before I say one word against him. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's how you want to go.
Speaker 4: He's the Roxy Andrews of Sings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so true. So now they're at Daniel and Melinda's
Speaker 1: apartment and she's defending him and Benson goes, stand by
Speaker 1: your man. Sounds a lot better when Tammy Wynette sings
Speaker 1: it okay, Benson, and they find brochures for the same
Speaker 1: Cayman bank where the payments to Jesset came from. And
Speaker 1: I'm just like, loll a brochure as evidence. It's just
Speaker 1: so funny to me, Like I don't know, I just
Speaker 1: don't know why you have like a bank brochure, Like
Speaker 1: you just open your account.
Speaker 4: Why do you have a brochure?
Speaker 1: But she tells them basically. They're like, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of evidence against your man here, Melinda, So where is he?
Speaker 1: And she's like, he's at the new building site. So
Speaker 1: they go to the new building site where they arrest
Speaker 1: Daniel in front of his future mother in law and
Speaker 1: boss and Rose is.
Speaker 4: Like, oh, call my lawyer.
Speaker 1: So now we're in the final act of this episode,
Speaker 1: where the fuck is Anica?
Speaker 4: Let's get going.
Speaker 1: So, what's up the dude you just killed by accident
Speaker 1: happens to be the excelmate of your best friend Sam Marlette?
Speaker 1: Is that a couincient? Like what's going on? And Daniel's like,
Speaker 1: I have no idea what you're talking about. And they're like, listen,
Speaker 1: you only paid Jesic ten thousand dollars. The reward from
Speaker 1: Granville was one hundred thousand. It was too tempting for Jesick.
Speaker 1: He wanted both payments. So Daniel's like, I never met
Speaker 1: this Jesic guy in my life. And they're like, what
Speaker 1: about these Cayman Island brochures And he's like, Okay, you're right,
Speaker 1: I did it.
Speaker 4: And it's really weird.
Speaker 1: It's like a very weird turn, Like he just gets
Speaker 1: kind of a look on his face and he's like,
Speaker 1: you're right, I did it. But he doesn't know where
Speaker 1: he took her. He doesn't know where Jesic took her.
Speaker 1: He's like, I hired Jesick, but I don't know where
Speaker 1: she is. And Stabler's like, I'm going to put the
Speaker 1: needle in you on myself. And then Rose Granville shows
Speaker 1: up and is vehemently defending Daniel and she says he
Speaker 1: loves Melinda and he isn't marrying her for her money,
Speaker 1: and he is incapable of violence. And Rose is going
Speaker 1: to try to use her connects to get Daniel off basis.
Speaker 1: She basically just says like, I'm going to call my
Speaker 1: friend who went to college with the DA. Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: so I'm rich, bitch, and so the crime lab has something,
Speaker 1: and we got Judith Cipher back on the case again
Speaker 1: and she has found a receipt in Jesic's pocket that
Speaker 1: is soaked in blood.
Speaker 4: But cocky CSU tech do not bring you around for nothing.
Speaker 1: She used uh she was able to unfold it, like
Speaker 1: it took her an hour to unfold it without like
Speaker 1: obliterating it. And then she used lasers to see what
Speaker 1: was on the receipt. So she just like fucks with
Speaker 1: all these nanos on the laser until she can see
Speaker 1: that it's a gas station receipt for the Rockaways.
Speaker 4: And Stabler's like, I know where that is.
Speaker 1: I just spent my summers up there because he is
Speaker 1: so fucking queens.
Speaker 4: It's ridiculous. And uh no, I follow a.
Speaker 2: Couple and they I think they could have afforded a
Speaker 2: house anywhere, but they got there's like summer weekend home
Speaker 2: in the Rockaways.
Speaker 4: And I think it's genius.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like while close sit in traffic to go to
Speaker 2: the Hampton's when you can take the fucking train if
Speaker 2: you really want.
Speaker 4: It's so smart.
Speaker 2: On the beach, you're close to the city, you could
Speaker 2: stay and still go to work.
Speaker 4: Like I just I really impressed with. I bet that's
Speaker 4: going to become bigger and bigger too.
Speaker 1: I bet you the Rockaways is going to be like
Speaker 1: blow up, yeah, because that's like like the Hampton sure whatever.
Speaker 4: It's like the traffic in and out is.
Speaker 1: Psychotic, like, yeah, you could take the subway to fucking yeah.
Speaker 2: Berkshire's as far, like all of people's summer homes seem
Speaker 2: like kind of annoying that I'm sure you know that.
Speaker 2: My Brooklyn Brighton Beach family, they would send all the
Speaker 2: kids with the grandparents to their pocono's house for the
Speaker 2: whole summer and only see.
Speaker 4: Them on the weekends. Oh that's great. Isn't that weird?
Speaker 1: Okay, so the gas station attendance is like yeah, he
Speaker 1: seems him, and he tells he tells them. They're like okay, well,
Speaker 1: like did you know which way he came from?
Speaker 4: And he's like nah.
Speaker 1: And then they're like, okay, well, if you wanted to
Speaker 1: do something sketchy and fucked up, where would you do
Speaker 1: it around here? And he's like there's some abandoned cottages
Speaker 1: out on the beach and they're like okay, great, and
Speaker 1: then as they're running away, he goes you won't make
Speaker 1: it in that car. Here, take my truck and like
Speaker 1: cat passes the his keys, which is I think so funny.
Speaker 2: It is, but someone that he I bet he loves.
Speaker 2: I bet he's a Blue Lives match.
Speaker 1: Blue Line flag for sure, hanging from his gas station. Way,
Speaker 1: no way, no day, he doesn't. Okay, yeah, so he
Speaker 1: They ride up to the cottages in this like fun
Speaker 1: red truck and then they hear somebody immediately yelling for help,
Speaker 1: and they bust into this abandoned cottage. They find Anica
Speaker 1: tied to a dirty mattress. Tied up on a dirty mattress,
Speaker 1: She's so bloody, it's really horrible. She's been in labor
Speaker 1: all day. She says, please save my baby, and she
Speaker 1: doesn't care if she dies. Basically, he tells her, like,
Speaker 1: you'll die if you give birth to this baby now,
Speaker 1: and she's like, just save my baby.
Speaker 4: It's like so tough to watch.
Speaker 1: And then Sabler goes into daddy delivery mode because he
Speaker 1: obviously has ninety children and has given birth to all
Speaker 1: of them himself. And Anka tells him that the baby's
Speaker 1: name is Celia, and she says, Melinda wasn't supposed to
Speaker 1: tell she came by to see me. So now we're
Speaker 1: getting some sketchy information. What does Melinda have to do
Speaker 1: with this? So Stabler delivers the baby, wraps it in newspaper,
Speaker 1: and it seems like everything's okay. The baby's like crying,
Speaker 1: she's cute, she's everything's good. She hands Anika the baby
Speaker 1: and she's like, I love you, baby girl. And I'm
Speaker 1: like tearing up because I'm like, giving birth is so
Speaker 1: fucking horrible as it is in a hospital with all
Speaker 1: the comforts that you can be afforded, drugs, et cetera.
Speaker 1: So I just can't imagine being chained in a fucking
Speaker 1: abandoned beach house like bleeding out while I'm giving birth.
Speaker 1: And then Stabler asks like, why did the guy bring
Speaker 1: you here? And she goes she paid him to and
Speaker 1: Stabler goes who. And then Anica starts passing out and
Speaker 1: Finn's like, I'm losing her pulse and they try to
Speaker 1: get her to hang on. We hear sirens and this
Speaker 1: is like really good Stabler work, Like you're loving Stabler here.
Speaker 1: He's doing everything to keep this woman alive. He's like
Speaker 1: he's invested. He really is like desperate. It's like his
Speaker 1: own wife is giving birth here. So in the next scene,
Speaker 1: they bring Daniel into the hospital and Benson's like, drop
Speaker 1: the act. You didn't do this, and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I did. And Benson's like, you're covering for Melinda. Anka
Speaker 1: told us everything before she died, and that just like
Speaker 1: crushed me. I was very sad that she died. Obviously,
Speaker 1: they toyed with us. They told me, I know, I've
Speaker 1: seen the episode ten times, but I think when you win,
Speaker 1: SVU gets to you, you live right like that, that's
Speaker 1: the agreement we have.
Speaker 4: You don't just die later.
Speaker 2: It made me sad, I know that, But also, why
Speaker 2: would you protect Melinda at this point she sucks, like
Speaker 2: you still want to be with her, like you would.
Speaker 4: Still go to jail for her?
Speaker 1: She like.
Speaker 4: Took the kid, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I know. So Benson goes Anica told us you didn't
Speaker 1: know about the baby, but Melinda did. And then they
Speaker 1: bring Daniel Celia, his daughter, and they're like, if you
Speaker 1: take the fall for Melinda, you go to jail. And
Speaker 1: this baby girl is alone with no one in the
Speaker 1: world to help her, even though there is the aunt,
Speaker 1: but she's got money problems.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I do you think that's how my sister and
Speaker 2: niece and nephews talk about, like.
Speaker 1: Well there's lee but she's so Stabler goes to talk
Speaker 1: to Melinda and questioning and she's like great, can we
Speaker 1: go now? And he's like, we got to talk to
Speaker 1: you a little bit, and she's like, listen, when I
Speaker 1: fell in love with Daniel, I was scared that he
Speaker 1: still had feelings for Anica. So I went to go
Speaker 1: see her, and when I saw she was pregnant, I
Speaker 1: just knew the baby was his.
Speaker 4: What were you going to go.
Speaker 1: See her for to see if she still had feelings
Speaker 1: for him? Like, I don't what was that? What was
Speaker 1: the plan? And then Stabler is like you did this,
Speaker 1: and she's like I did it. And then they bring
Speaker 1: Daniel in and she goes to like embrace him and
Speaker 1: he's like, don't touch me. And she's like They're like
Speaker 1: you did this and she's like it wasn't me, and
Speaker 1: they're like, well, Jessic said a woman hired him, and
Speaker 1: no one knew Daniel was the father except for you.
Speaker 1: And then Melinda gets this look in her I like,
Speaker 1: oh no, I did tell somebody else, and Live is
Speaker 1: like spill it, and she's like, I can't, and then
Speaker 1: lives like, I'm smart.
Speaker 4: You told your mother, and.
Speaker 1: She goes, she would have known Marlette from the mailroom
Speaker 1: at work, because he Daniel had gotten him a job
Speaker 1: at the mail room at work, and she probably put
Speaker 1: the brochures in your apartment. And then Melinda goes, I
Speaker 1: didn't know until this afternoon when we went to get
Speaker 1: the mail money and I was short on cash, and
Speaker 1: our business manager told me that Daniel doesn't have a
Speaker 1: Caman account, only mom does. And that's when she knew
Speaker 1: that her mom had planned this whole thing. And she
Speaker 1: said it was too late to help Anica. I guess
Speaker 1: because Anka was they had already found her when she
Speaker 1: figured it out, and she's like, she's my mother.
Speaker 4: I love her. I didn't know what to do.
Speaker 1: And then Daniel sees Rose on the way out and says,
Speaker 1: how could you do this? And he says like, I
Speaker 1: know I'm not the best, Like I know I'm not
Speaker 1: like a pure bread, but I would have loved your daughter,
Speaker 1: And the mom is like that baby would have ruined everything.
Speaker 1: You've always been so trusting. Daniel would have taken your
Speaker 1: money and gone back to her and the baby. I
Speaker 1: did this for you. That's what the mother says, this.
Speaker 4: Whole monologue to her daughter. And then they.
Speaker 1: Arrest Rose, who clearly will get off because she's very
Speaker 1: rich and powerful. And Melinda's like Daniel, and Daniel's like bye,
Speaker 1: and that's dick will baby.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's so tipsy turvy wild, And even though I've seen
Speaker 2: it a bunch, I'm always just like gripped by the mystery. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I never I'm always like, wait, which one of them did?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and they did.
Speaker 2: I think they fucked up on casting though, because Daniel
Speaker 2: does look like a rich guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he looks like.
Speaker 4: A Yale baby.
Speaker 1: And they maybe should have given him somebody with like
Speaker 1: more like a New York accent or something, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody that seemed a little bit more like poor, yeah,
Speaker 1: or like just yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: He looks like a hot rich He looks like James Marsfield. Man,
Speaker 2: what's the guy you know, twenty seven dresses James Marsden.
Speaker 4: Yes, that's the vibe I get from this guy, like
Speaker 4: a ha, you know, or that little swoop in his hair.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, this also tragedy is I think of trade.
Speaker 2: Trade is similar to this for me where it's like
Speaker 2: the coffee coffee one. The rich like it's similar where
Speaker 2: it's like intertwining rich families girlfriends like parent's doing crimes
Speaker 2: for Yeah. So those two are cannon to me, and
Speaker 2: let's get going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be right back after we tell you about
Speaker 1: some delightful products.
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is famous huge you've you know, if
Speaker 2: you're not fourteen, you know you were alive, you know this.
Speaker 4: It was a big deal.
Speaker 2: We're doing the Lacy and Scott Peterson case and it's
Speaker 2: not that connected to this episode, and I was like
Speaker 2: getting nervous, and then Kara reminded me this episode came
Speaker 2: out six months after.
Speaker 1: So yeah, six or nine were connecting after. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: you're definitely when you're doing a pregnant woman missing with
Speaker 1: a high risk pregnancy, when the hugest case of the
Speaker 1: decade is happening, they're connected.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I Also I do have to warn you guys,
Speaker 2: this is a big one. If you're commuting to work,
Speaker 2: this might take you three weeks, So get a bubble up.
Speaker 2: I will keep you uh entertained to and from work.
Speaker 2: I also have to give a kind of heads up
Speaker 2: that I don't think Scott Peterson should have been guilty.
Speaker 4: I know you might come for me.
Speaker 1: I am dying to hear how you get to this,
Speaker 1: So let's let's start.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's the casey anthony of it all.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying he did not do it. I am
Speaker 2: saying if you cannot tell me how, when and where
Speaker 2: the murder took place, you cannot sentence someone to death.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. That is fun.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, let's let's take us through it because I
Speaker 1: don't know, honestly, I don't know all the details of this.
Speaker 1: Like I remember this story generally and like some of
Speaker 1: the salacious, Like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was young, I was in high school. I
Speaker 2: wasn't paying attention. So this was exciting. And then a
Speaker 2: part of me is nervous because I did supplement with
Speaker 2: a lot of sources. But the docuseries I did mostly
Speaker 2: watch they think Scott's it's very Scott Peterson heavy.
Speaker 4: So maybe I got into the propaganda.
Speaker 2: But I will take you through this case and you
Speaker 2: you know, we'll see what happens. If I'm gonna be
Speaker 2: a prior not so. In two thousand and four, Scott
Speaker 2: Peterson was convicted of murdering his wife Lacy and their
Speaker 2: unborn child. She went missing on Christmas Eve, so pretty exciting,
Speaker 2: I mean sad. But and this was in Modesto, California,
Speaker 2: and it wants to be known as like this agriculture
Speaker 2: sleepy town, but all the citizens and interviews were like,
Speaker 2: uh no. So the slogan for the town is water, wealth, contentment, health,
Speaker 2: and the little nickname for it is murder, meth and
Speaker 2: auto theft. So there's two like you know, distinct parts
Speaker 2: of this town. They did live in like the nicest
Speaker 2: part of Modesto, but it was very close to high
Speaker 2: crime area.
Speaker 4: And that's how most cities are.
Speaker 2: You're like millionaires row and then projects are blocks away
Speaker 2: from each other, as you know in Chicago at least.
Speaker 2: And it was a sensation. This is one of the
Speaker 2: most famous crimes in history, not even yeah twenty four
Speaker 2: to seven. News is entertainment and there's a formula. So
Speaker 2: you want to find a defendant who is enviable, you know, wealthy, powerful,
Speaker 2: also someone that depends on their popularity for their livelihood.
Speaker 2: That is something that you know, hits the media by
Speaker 2: storm and most importantly, and this is where this kind
Speaker 2: of tracks is are they attractive.
Speaker 4: Is the victim attractive? That was them?
Speaker 2: We want attractive people, rich people people. We want people
Speaker 2: being brought down, you know, as a culture, not us personally.
Speaker 2: I prefer to be around hot people. Okay, so I
Speaker 2: want hot people to live. Yeah, so Scott and Lacy
Speaker 2: were very hot. Also, what added to this kind of
Speaker 2: case in the pandemonium is there was another woman, and
Speaker 2: so you want every day because you're angry and you
Speaker 2: have all these emotions and you want to know what happened.
Speaker 2: So that's why it kind of like gripped the nation.
Speaker 2: And also it was Christmas time. News is slow, TV
Speaker 2: shows are on reruns, like there's not much going on,
Speaker 2: and so it was like kind of this perfect formula
Speaker 2: where this could have just been a local newscase, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and Lacey there's not much about her, and this is
Speaker 2: it's like yeah, And I think it's because the documentary
Speaker 2: I watched was trying to free Scott Peterson. But I'm
Speaker 2: sure there's stories about Lacey. But she was twenty seven
Speaker 2: years old. She was a substitute teacher. She used to
Speaker 2: be a horticulture major. She liked being in dirt and
Speaker 2: plants and like that. Was her vibe. I just wanted
Speaker 2: to give you some information about her. Very smiley and
Speaker 2: fun and she liked the movie Superman. Okay, So Scott
Speaker 2: Peterson's account of what happened was they ate breakfast right
Speaker 2: away Christmas Eve morning. She got she got up a
Speaker 2: little earth. He waited like an hour or so, and
Speaker 2: then they watched her favorite show, Martha Stewart, which is
Speaker 2: funny to me for a young twenty seven year old
Speaker 2: woman to be watching Martha Stewart, like the number one show.
Speaker 4: But yeah, TV was different back then. Okay.
Speaker 2: Then he said that she mopped the kitchen floor and
Speaker 2: was cleaning, and it's like, why is your eight and
Speaker 2: a half month pregnant wife doing that?
Speaker 4: Why are you not mopping?
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, like you're trying to give us an alibi
Speaker 2: or like, you know, describe stuff. But in my head,
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'll fucking kill you. How dare she be mopping?
Speaker 2: So she went to take the dog for a walk
Speaker 2: and he decided to go phishing. To me, it's Christmas Eve,
Speaker 2: why are you going phishing?
Speaker 4: A lot?
Speaker 2: Like I just assume for Americans at least there's more
Speaker 2: kind of vibe, like you do more on Christmas. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so that is strange. So nine twenty to forty someone
Speaker 2: did see him load umbrellas into the car and go
Speaker 2: to his warehouse.
Speaker 4: At ten thirty to.
Speaker 2: Ten fifty six, he was at his computer at the
Speaker 2: warehouse doing stuff and that was easily tractable. Then he
Speaker 2: went to Berkeley to go fishing. And then so that's
Speaker 2: in Berkeley fishing.
Speaker 4: Scott.
Speaker 2: What was happening here with Lacey is at ten eighteen am,
Speaker 2: the neighbor saw the dog walking around outside the home
Speaker 2: with a leash and the collar, but no Lacey. So
Speaker 2: the dog, this Golden Retriever, very cute, had this leash,
Speaker 2: and so the neighbor took the dog and put the
Speaker 2: dog in the backyard. And then there's five sightings and
Speaker 2: witnesses remembering seeing a pregnant woman with a Golden retriever,
Speaker 2: and all of them had like a moment of why
Speaker 2: she caught their attention, Like she tripped one time.
Speaker 4: Someone was like, oh, she's so pregnant. Oh the oh
Speaker 4: that looks like our dog. That dog. You know, everyone
Speaker 4: had like a little moment.
Speaker 2: But as we know from SVU two, like witness accounts
Speaker 2: are not to be trusted.
Speaker 4: Because humanity is were fools.
Speaker 2: So this is going to become a huge part of
Speaker 2: the case, like who actually saw the dog? Are these
Speaker 2: sightings confirmed or not? So we we have all of
Speaker 2: these sightings of her. The sixth witness was a woman
Speaker 2: and she was having a smoke before her shift at
Speaker 2: the hospital. And I love medical workers smoking cigarettes and
Speaker 2: eating fast food.
Speaker 4: It's one of my favorite.
Speaker 2: Things because it just reminds us of like, of course,
Speaker 2: we all know the right things to do in life,
Speaker 2: but it is hard to complete these tasks and take
Speaker 2: care of ourselves, even when you're a fucking doctor.
Speaker 4: And I just like that.
Speaker 2: And she saw Lacy at the park by this creek,
Speaker 2: and she then saw two men yell at her to
Speaker 2: shut that dog up. So I guess this was a
Speaker 2: very badly behaved golden retriever. And again, we do not
Speaker 2: know if any of these witnesses are trustworthy. This is
Speaker 2: just the base account of what happened. Detective John, one
Speaker 2: of the detectives, like, I don't believe any of these people,
Speaker 2: and I believe that she was already dead by then.
Speaker 2: So there's like a couple of camps. There's a camp
Speaker 2: that thinks he killed her. On the twenty third, and
Speaker 2: then got rid of her body on the twenty fourth.
Speaker 2: Some say in the morning there was a murder. You
Speaker 2: know again, Wow, there are no answers. How do you
Speaker 2: set in.
Speaker 1: By this guy thinks that six people seeing a pregnant
Speaker 1: woman walking a dog were making it up. That's a
Speaker 1: lot of people.
Speaker 4: It is. It totally is.
Speaker 1: And you are like, you are memorable when you're eight
Speaker 1: and a half months pregnant. Your body looks like a
Speaker 1: body shouldn't look.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and well, and that's another thing where you're when
Speaker 2: I you know, I did give Kara heads up, I go,
Speaker 2: I think I'm on Scott Peterson's side.
Speaker 4: How do you think this will go? The thing with.
Speaker 2: This case, and we talk about this all the time
Speaker 2: in all other cases, is police fuck up all the time,
Speaker 2: so it wouldn't be that shocking and all of these witnesses,
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm getting ahead of myself, but it is
Speaker 2: a great question, Kara. The police never talk to these
Speaker 2: people again, all of these witnesses said that the police
Speaker 2: never contacted them for an interview. Ever, like there were
Speaker 2: tip lines, the cops did not listen because the cops
Speaker 2: had in mind what happened and they do lie to
Speaker 2: the press.
Speaker 4: They do a lot of fucked up shit.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing, Like, whether it's a likable or
Speaker 2: unlikable person, whether someone's guilty or not, we can all agree,
Speaker 2: the cops will find a way to fuck a case up,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: So that's the thing. They didn't even talk to any
Speaker 4: of these people. Wow, but maybe.
Speaker 2: They didn't follow up with them because they were like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you were all full of shit. We know the neighbor
Speaker 2: put the dog away at ten eighteen, so there's no
Speaker 2: way you could have seen it. And she actually physically
Speaker 2: touched the dog and put it in the yard, and
Speaker 2: she knew the time because she had an appointment that
Speaker 2: she left to right away. So to them, everyone else
Speaker 2: might have just been like seeing another pregnant woman or
Speaker 2: making it up for attention, or seeing something else because
Speaker 2: they believed the first neighbor witness and also those other
Speaker 2: witnesses would contradict this witness.
Speaker 1: So it's like there is definitely a thing two of
Speaker 1: people wanting to be part of something so huge like that,
Speaker 1: yes for sure, yes, Like oh did you know I'm
Speaker 1: part of the Lacy Peterson case, Like, yeah, I saw
Speaker 1: her I'm one of the last people to see her alive,
Speaker 1: you know, like people love that shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I can't say that I wouldn't be desperate,
Speaker 2: but I wouldn't. I don't think I would make something.
Speaker 2: I would hope I would not make to fuss out.
Speaker 4: So back to Scott.
Speaker 2: At twelve fifty four pm, he as a receipt from
Speaker 2: when he parked his truck at the marina and he
Speaker 2: was there till two pm. He did not catch anything
Speaker 2: and called Lacy as he left there to go home
Speaker 2: at two fifteen, and he left a very sweet voicemail
Speaker 2: for her. But then he goes, hey, and I forgot
Speaker 2: to pick up the basket for Papa, so can you
Speaker 2: go pick up the basket? And it's like pick up
Speaker 2: the basket. She's pregnant. I was like, she's mopping, she's
Speaker 2: doing errands. What the fuck. He got back to the
Speaker 2: warehouse at four thirty pm to clip the boat back
Speaker 2: in there and then went straight home. She was not there,
Speaker 2: and the dog was in the backyard with the leash
Speaker 2: and the door was unlocked. But he just assumed that
Speaker 2: she was at her mom's house. But the leash, that's weird.
Speaker 2: If she came home, she would have unclipped the leash.
Speaker 2: But then he threw his clothing in the water right away,
Speaker 2: and that to me is shady, Like you don't do
Speaker 2: laundry on Christmas Eve when you're rushing like you put it.
Speaker 2: I just would not throw a load in. So again
Speaker 2: I'm not on his side. He does lots of shady shit,
Speaker 2: but so there's you know, I'm trying to be Yeah,
Speaker 2: he showered, which I guess if you were fishing, maybe
Speaker 2: you got sweaty. But again, that's weird to do that.
Speaker 2: I think in the middle of the day he ate
Speaker 2: pizza and milk. Disgusting. We used to be arrested for that. Literally,
Speaker 2: grow up. Yeah, dairy on dairy.
Speaker 4: I just what.
Speaker 2: I'm just like having diarya thinking about what's happening. So
Speaker 2: he called Sharon, that is Lacey's mother at five seventeen pm.
Speaker 4: Again, wouldn't you be doing Christmas?
Speaker 2: He fills the mom in like, hey, her car's here,
Speaker 2: but she's not, so I'm assuming she's with you guys,
Speaker 2: did you pick her up?
Speaker 4: And they're like, she's not here.
Speaker 2: So at five forty seven PM, Lacey's stepfather calls nine
Speaker 2: one one.
Speaker 4: And it's two thousand and four. Do they have cell phones?
Speaker 4: I don't know. I know I had a Nokia.
Speaker 2: I definitely played snake in high school and I graduated
Speaker 2: in five, so like I I'm yeah, I had a Nokia.
Speaker 4: I had a phone. I had a phone and no
Speaker 4: four for sure.
Speaker 2: So but yeah, wait was a so no, he was
Speaker 2: just charged in O four. This happened in OH one
Speaker 2: and two thousand and four he was convicted.
Speaker 4: Oh I'm so sorry she went missing in O one.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah sorry, Oh okay, I didn't have a phone yet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, good. I love that.
Speaker 2: It's how you have a phone is how this case is.
Speaker 1: I got one. I actually may have gotten one like
Speaker 1: that Christmas for my first one, and I left it
Speaker 1: in my room and never took it out.
Speaker 4: It was like weird because.
Speaker 2: I'm also thinking like people and in nine to eleven
Speaker 2: were leaving voicemails to their loved ones.
Speaker 4: And the plane.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah that's true, so it might have been around.
Speaker 2: But you know, Carrie Bradshaw didn't have one for to
Speaker 2: like see.
Speaker 4: Right, so like not everybody had one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't like everyone has a cell phone thing yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So but I'm sorry, that I uptop said two
Speaker 2: thousand and four convicted. This is all place in two
Speaker 2: thousand and one and obviously takes years for the trials,
Speaker 2: so thank you for catching that.
Speaker 4: Yes, so al Borrokini.
Speaker 2: Is the detective, and everyone in this documentary series is like, oh,
Speaker 2: he's a bulldog, he's the best, he's beloved. This Broccini
Speaker 2: guy is a beloved detective. So the cops meet at
Speaker 2: the park and he's like, let's go to the house.
Speaker 2: We got to go to the house and they started
Speaker 2: going through all the stuff and there's no evidence of
Speaker 2: a forced entry or bloodshed or a struggle. She had
Speaker 2: plans for that afternoon and then she was just gone.
Speaker 2: So at midnight that night, they take Scott into the
Speaker 2: police station for a one hour interview and he was
Speaker 2: very cooperative to what they could see, like he was
Speaker 2: cooperating with them. So this is Christmas day. People are
Speaker 2: fucking working. It's kind of like a movie when you're.
Speaker 4: Like, no one would be working on.
Speaker 2: Christmas, this is bullshit, and it's like, nah, people are
Speaker 2: working on Christmas. So Alborkini then called another detective of
Speaker 2: the Medesto, ped John Bueler, and he was just wrapping
Speaker 2: up a double homicide on Christmas Day, so he was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'll work on this with you, Marie here and ignoring
Speaker 2: my family and again like I do want to fuck
Speaker 2: a detective.
Speaker 4: And it's so hard that they are cops. It's like.
Speaker 2: So attractive to solve a murder with evidence, and then
Speaker 2: it's like, uh, maybe a private okaybably no, private eyes
Speaker 2: didn't pass the police test, So I don't I have stand.
Speaker 1: But aren't there former cops that like leave the force
Speaker 1: and do private work?
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe that's your goal.
Speaker 2: Like they hated their I don't you I CA don't,
Speaker 2: but I wouldn't trust a PI.
Speaker 4: That's the thing. They're like lying too much. It's all
Speaker 4: a little tough for me.
Speaker 2: So so Scott's there to do this interview, and that's
Speaker 2: the first time John has seen Scott, and he was
Speaker 2: expecting Scott to be like, are you working on this?
Speaker 4: What's this about? How about this? Are you finding my wife?
Speaker 2: But his behavior was very different from other people that
Speaker 2: he's dealt with that have just like have a missing
Speaker 2: loved one. He wasn't that interested in what they were
Speaker 2: doing or in the case, and their goal was to
Speaker 2: clear him right away. Like it, let's clear him, so
Speaker 2: then we can get to work on other shit. Like
Speaker 2: they're not sitting around, you know, like they're like, okay,
Speaker 2: let's like let's get through this.
Speaker 4: Let's go find her. So it's Christmas even.
Speaker 2: He agreed to take the polygraph, but then he talked
Speaker 2: to his dad and the dad is like, don't take
Speaker 2: a polygraph.
Speaker 4: Anything you do, don't do it.
Speaker 2: So he said no, and to them that's like the
Speaker 2: cops are like annoyed because to that, but I.
Speaker 4: See why not to take it because they're unreliable of course,
Speaker 4: and so that's what the dad said to him.
Speaker 2: The dad was like, listen, if they if there's anything weird,
Speaker 2: they could get like it's not worth it, like I'm
Speaker 2: gonna call a lawyer. We'll get a lawyer, like don't
Speaker 2: do this. But to the cops, it was like, why
Speaker 2: don't you just do the things we're asking you to
Speaker 2: do so we can move on if you're innocent, Like
Speaker 2: what is the issue. So him refusing the polly made
Speaker 2: them suspicious. Other weird behavior that they took into account
Speaker 2: was he didn't remember the kind of bait he used
Speaker 2: that morning while fishing, So that's strange like, you fished
Speaker 2: just twelve hours ago. You have your own boat, you
Speaker 2: obviously like it, Like, why wouldn't you know that bait
Speaker 2: that you used. Yeah, Also, his main concerns weren't Lacey.
Speaker 2: His main major concerns were his car door got hit
Speaker 2: by another door in the driveway, or he was getting
Speaker 2: stressed out that they were taking pictures of his boat
Speaker 2: and wanted his receipts and stuff, and so they were
Speaker 2: like but on his side, they were like suspic They
Speaker 2: were suspicious of him because he had a receipt from
Speaker 2: the boat docking place, but then they were suspicious of
Speaker 2: him because he didn't have the receipt from the gas
Speaker 2: station he stopped in. So it's like you can't have
Speaker 2: both ways, like did he save the receipts or did
Speaker 2: he not care?
Speaker 4: Like it? But they didn't like they didn't like his vibe.
Speaker 2: So, like I said, December twenty sixth, not a lot
Speaker 2: of news going on, and it became kind of like ohja,
Speaker 2: where everyone wanted to watch it, and every single channel
Speaker 2: and every every paper, every everyone wanted this.
Speaker 1: Hey, you're like at home, it's Christmas. There's like no
Speaker 1: new shows are on. You're bored with your fucking family.
Speaker 1: You're probably just like, what's going on with this case,
Speaker 1: and like, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so because of the frenzy, he was assigned
Speaker 2: like a protector guy. So he was assigned Ed Steele,
Speaker 2: who was a former sergeant of the Medesto ped and
Speaker 2: at the time, he was assigned to be Scott's personal
Speaker 2: liaison for him and the family to the police to
Speaker 2: kind of like help out, and he spent a lot
Speaker 2: of time with Scott. First perception that Ed had of
Speaker 2: Scott was he was very charming. So anyways, so there's
Speaker 2: a pregnant woman, you know, local news people got interested,
Speaker 2: and then people turned out to help and search for her.
Speaker 2: And so everyone's showing up, everyone's searching, everyone's involved. People
Speaker 2: didn't even know her but heard it on the morning
Speaker 2: news and people started to search. There was a volunteer
Speaker 2: center at the hotel that popped up quick and it
Speaker 2: was opened twenty four hours a day. So Ed Steele
Speaker 2: and his handlers show up to this help center days
Speaker 2: after Lacy went missing, and Scott was already there. So
Speaker 2: that's a good sign. You know, he's like helping with
Speaker 2: the search. But he says it was shocking that Scott
Speaker 2: was eating ribs because local restaurants were donating food to
Speaker 2: the search so could like eat and work twenty four hours.
Speaker 2: So he's eating ribs and he looked up to Ed
Speaker 2: and held the rib up.
Speaker 4: That was like leaking, he said, of the sauces.
Speaker 2: And he was just like, oh, hey, look at this
Speaker 2: rib and he was just like talking about the ribs,
Speaker 2: and it rubbed ed the wrong way where it's like,
Speaker 2: what what, how are you eating ribs? Chatting about ribs
Speaker 2: your wife?
Speaker 1: Well, it kind of reminds it reminds me of Gone Girl,
Speaker 1: you know, of course. Yeah, like when they're in like
Speaker 1: the pop up like volunteer center and then that woman
Speaker 1: takes a selfie with him and it's like that's not
Speaker 1: even what he meant to be doing, but anything you
Speaker 1: do looks like you're fucking enjoying yourself or like fucking
Speaker 1: off when your wife is missing.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: A lot of this stuff about him and how he
Speaker 2: acts though, it's like he does so much shady shit,
Speaker 2: it's pretty wild. But I am like, maybe he has autisa,
Speaker 2: Like maybe he has panic attacks in front of cameras, Like,
Speaker 2: h you don't actually know. I mean, he's probably killed Lacey,
Speaker 2: but like, yeah, you know, I under but that's the
Speaker 2: whole thing where it's like, even if cameras stressed you out,
Speaker 2: you would do anything to find your wife. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: would do anything. And they didn't like that. They didn't
Speaker 2: like that. And then the big news that everyone kind
Speaker 2: of knew was he kept saying like he kept talking
Speaker 2: about her in past tense, I loved her as she's
Speaker 2: still alive. So eight hundred and fifty telephone tips came in.
Speaker 2: You know, Craigan would be pissed and munch of all
Speaker 2: these people.
Speaker 4: In the city.
Speaker 2: But again it was all about the morning walks and everything.
Speaker 2: But the cops were not using the community tips. And
Speaker 2: that's according to Scott's sister in law and this documentary.
Speaker 2: So like, I don't know, you know, we can't trust
Speaker 2: his family.
Speaker 4: It's tough.
Speaker 2: So the twenty sixth round five pm, they have a
Speaker 2: warrant to search his house. Now, Detective John says the
Speaker 2: search warrant isn't even about finding physical evidence. It's about
Speaker 2: they get info from the behavior of the accused. They
Speaker 2: were there to see how he would act if someone
Speaker 2: wanted to search the house. Scott did not give permission
Speaker 2: to do the house. That's a red flag to them.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He also hired a lawyer. Your wife went missing a
Speaker 2: few days ago, Why do you need a lawyer? Yeah,
Speaker 2: So that was shady to them. December twenty seventh, it's
Speaker 2: three days missing. It is now a full blown media frenzy.
Speaker 2: News broke that thing like that, things were taken out
Speaker 2: of the house with the search warrant and it was
Speaker 2: just like bam, everything was wild now. Ted Rowland is
Speaker 2: kind of a popular figure here. He was a local
Speaker 2: reporter who was like the first person on the scene
Speaker 2: days ago. He lived nearby, he had nothing to do.
Speaker 2: He was like, you know what, I'm gonna go camp out.
Speaker 2: He camped out there every fucking day for months months.
Speaker 2: There's another local reporter I'll mention, but like there's two
Speaker 2: local reporters that, like legit, were so involved in this
Speaker 2: case from the moment, and there's like facts that become
Speaker 2: really important about that. So he rang the doorbell one
Speaker 2: day and Scott and the dog actually came outside and
Speaker 2: he was just saying how like he didn't really like
Speaker 2: cameras or want to be on camera or anything like that.
Speaker 2: And that was weird to Ted because it's like, again,
Speaker 2: don't you want to know let people know what's up
Speaker 2: and ask for help, like why aren't you grieving and
Speaker 2: looking upset ted? Described it as very aloof So now
Speaker 2: day four, finally this news of this burglary comes out.
Speaker 2: This is kind of a shady situation. So there was
Speaker 2: a burglary across the street from the Peterson house on
Speaker 2: Christmas Eve. Okay, so basically that day, a witness it's
Speaker 2: a close neighborhood, like everyone kind of knows each other,
Speaker 2: drove by the residence and it was her friend's house.
Speaker 2: So she noticed that there was a van and three people,
Speaker 2: suspicious people in front of her friend's home at eleven
Speaker 2: forty am on that Tuesday morning. Then days later, she
Speaker 2: was talking with a friend who's who said their home
Speaker 2: was burglarized on the twenty fourth, and that's when she
Speaker 2: put it all together and she goes, wait, I saw
Speaker 2: the people. That person went missing. Holy shit, And her
Speaker 2: friend goes, you need to call the police. You need
Speaker 2: to call the police.
Speaker 4: So that was actually the.
Speaker 2: First time the family felt hope and like maybe there's
Speaker 2: an answer and like, let's look into this burglary. Within
Speaker 2: a day of arresting the guys that were involved in
Speaker 2: the burglary.
Speaker 4: They realized.
Speaker 2: They concluded that it was not connected to Lacy and
Speaker 2: that the burglary is solved in it. Whatever, and it
Speaker 2: actually happened on the twenty sixth, So the police made
Speaker 2: statements and there's articles that the burglary actually happened on
Speaker 2: the twenty sixth, not the twenty fourth, But local news
Speaker 2: reporter Ted Rowland goes absolutely not. I was on the
Speaker 2: pavement every single day. If there was something that happened
Speaker 2: on the twenty sixth, I was on that street and
Speaker 2: I would have gone and interviewed them because.
Speaker 4: I'm looking for anyone, and the streets were empty.
Speaker 2: So the police lied about the date of the burglary
Speaker 2: to get people off their back and legit to the
Speaker 2: press said it happened on the twenty sixth, but Ted
Speaker 2: can confirm that's absolutely not true. Wow, and the witness
Speaker 2: saw the van on the twenty fourth, So it's like,
Speaker 2: what's going on. December thirty first, a thousand people met
Speaker 2: up for a candlelight vigil and they were they hated
Speaker 2: him because he did not speak. He stood outside the
Speaker 2: camera area and people didn't like it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she wrote, gone girl, based on this, I think
Speaker 1: actually right one hundred yeah yeah oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, because I'm like, this is like fucking straight
Speaker 1: from it.
Speaker 2: Too, like no, no, gone oh yeah yeah, but Gone
Speaker 2: Girl for shirt, it's like the god like ben Affleck
Speaker 2: who has no effect or whatever. Obviously there's more twists
Speaker 2: to Gone Girl, but very Gone Girl. I thought about
Speaker 2: Gon Girl, and this vigil is going to become important soon,
Speaker 2: so keep that in your feather cap or whatever. But also,
Speaker 2: and you know we know this from SVU guilty people
Speaker 2: like to come to the vigils, so yes, you know
Speaker 2: they can't help it. Then from the vigil, a photo
Speaker 2: came out, like you mentioned earlier, like one little thing
Speaker 2: wrong of him smiling and having a good time. People
Speaker 2: didn't like that, and why aren't you crying? Why aren't
Speaker 2: you desperate? And so this photo of him smiling at
Speaker 2: his dead wife's vigil turned people against him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like why.
Speaker 2: Are you hiding at the vigil of your dead wife?
Speaker 2: Like what are missing wife? January second, nine days missing.
Speaker 2: There's a press conference and they show people the truck
Speaker 2: and the boat to see if there are any tips
Speaker 2: of anyone who saw these things. But also these are
Speaker 2: small town detectives, so I don't think they're media trained.
Speaker 2: And suddenly, you know, the camera's people press, everyone's asking
Speaker 2: these small town cops questions, and they released their biases
Speaker 2: and they deny talking about stuff, they imply things. It's
Speaker 2: like a hot fuzz movie, like these cops are kind
Speaker 2: of fools, and they are letting people know. He goes,
Speaker 2: I can't say anything, but we haven't eliminated Scott as
Speaker 2: a suspect, and it's like, well you've said a lot, sir.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: They also announced where he had gone fishing on the news,
Speaker 2: which I think is bad to announce the alibi. How
Speaker 2: are you announcing someone's alibi publicly when a body hasn't
Speaker 2: been found yet. If it is someone else, they know
Speaker 2: where to dump the body.
Speaker 4: Now, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: You can't announce the alibi publicly. And then he also
Speaker 2: said he's cooperated to an extent, and Nancy Grace jump
Speaker 2: jumped on it, and that blew it up even more.
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace was really bothered by him. She hated him
Speaker 2: so much and she was gonna dig. Now. Amber Fry
Speaker 2: surfaces and she is Scott's girlfriends kind of other woman. Okay,
Speaker 2: she's a massage six Chris mistress. Yes, she's a massage
Speaker 2: therapist who just finished massage school in two thousand and two,
Speaker 2: and she had an eighteen month old baby and she
Speaker 2: was living in Fresno. November two thousand and two, Amber's
Speaker 2: friend was talking about a guy who her friend said
Speaker 2: was perfect for her and she was looking for the one,
Speaker 2: and Scott told her that he was looking looking for
Speaker 2: one like his guy, and never told her that he
Speaker 2: was married. But then she invited him to a Christmas
Speaker 2: party and he was pumped to go with her. And
Speaker 2: there's all these photos of them canoodling at this Christmas party.
Speaker 4: But it's like you just met in November.
Speaker 2: That seems like it's moving very very fast, okay, but
Speaker 2: she likes the way that, you know, it was moving.
Speaker 4: But she felt uneasy about something, and something was odd.
Speaker 2: Because he had to talk to her, he said, and
Speaker 2: he admitted to lying to her that he was married
Speaker 2: but lost his wife and it would be the first
Speaker 2: holidays without her and it's going to be really hard
Speaker 2: for him. But he didn't get into details, and she
Speaker 2: didn't push any of the info.
Speaker 1: So this is this is a year after no, No, No, No,
Speaker 1: that's just Amber resurfaces into like during the investigation. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: so she reservices later, but she's she but.
Speaker 2: It's it's complicated because basically what happens is once she
Speaker 2: puts it together, she tells the police and then for
Speaker 2: months records all of their conversations, and then the news
Speaker 2: got the photos and we're gonna leak them. So then
Speaker 2: in January, I think it's twenty fourth, I'll get to it,
Speaker 2: they held a press conference with Amber. They met November
Speaker 2: two thousand and two, and he's telling her this is
Speaker 2: gonna be my first holiday without my wife. So all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, everyone goes, that's premata, so sketchy. And
Speaker 2: then weeks later she's missing. So to them, it's like
Speaker 2: you pre meded it. Then now it's moved into premeditated
Speaker 2: first degree murder, like you're telling your mistress this will
Speaker 2: be your first holiday without your wife. But it could
Speaker 2: also just be a lie in the moment. But yeah,
Speaker 2: so it's fucked up. So fifteen days later from that
Speaker 2: conversation that they had, the new story breaks. A few
Speaker 2: days after Christmas, she gets handed a newspaper from a
Speaker 2: friend and she recognized the truck and all the stuff
Speaker 2: and was in complete shock, which leads me to believe
Speaker 2: this Amber girl is one of the dumbest people alive.
Speaker 2: She did not watch the news, like she did not
Speaker 2: know at all what had happened. Her friend had to
Speaker 2: be like, this looks fucked. So now she puts it
Speaker 2: all together, and she was in complete shock. So December thirtieth,
Speaker 2: they get a call the police from the tip line
Speaker 2: and his expression changed like al picked up the phone
Speaker 2: and John just knew that there was something to say.
Speaker 2: So the detectives go to meet Amber and that gave
Speaker 2: us a lot of information because in that first Christmas
Speaker 2: Eve interview when they asked how is your marriage, he
Speaker 2: said absolutely fine, We have a perfect marriage. And it's like, well, no,
Speaker 2: you're cheating and you have a girlfriend, so at least
Speaker 2: let us know because now it's even you're hiding stuff. Basically,
Speaker 2: they're like, you are hiding stuff, and that's all we
Speaker 2: need because if he was like, listen, I am fucking someone,
Speaker 2: he probably thought that would be against him.
Speaker 4: But in all turn, he just proved that he has
Speaker 4: something to hide.
Speaker 2: Amber agrees to help the police department and get him,
Speaker 2: so they bought a device that attached her phone and
Speaker 2: they tape recorded all the conversations between her and Scott,
Speaker 2: and then Scott calls right away, like they set it
Speaker 2: up in Scott's calling, So she answered she's nervous and
Speaker 2: on the call.
Speaker 4: Remember this is December thirtieth.
Speaker 2: He goes, hey, babe, I'm going to Paris for New
Speaker 2: Year's tomorrow, and she has sacked, excited that she was
Speaker 2: gonna see him. She has to sack like nothing's going on.
Speaker 2: So remember that vigil on New Year's. He calls Amber
Speaker 2: from the vigil and goes, hey, babe, I'm in Paris.
Speaker 2: I'm here with my friends. We're by the Eiffel Tower.
Speaker 2: We're gonna meet my friend Pascal from Spain.
Speaker 4: At the bar.
Speaker 2: They are recording a conversation from his missing wife's vigil
Speaker 2: as he's lying to his girlfriend, talking to her, going
Speaker 2: I'm in Paris, honey.
Speaker 4: There's fireworks.
Speaker 2: Wow. So twisted and he's a great liar. January fourth,
Speaker 2: two thousand and three, there's a recorded message from him
Speaker 2: saying I miss you. They talk dozens of times after
Speaker 2: Lacy went missing, and Amber was trying to bait Scott
Speaker 2: into a confession. Unfortunately, he never did or fortunately, like
Speaker 2: he's always like I loved Lacy, I love Lacy, I
Speaker 2: would never goble, like he denied everything on these conversations,
Speaker 2: but his actions were still weird, like it's just.
Speaker 4: It's fucked up.
Speaker 2: January fifth, twenty three, twelve days missing, divers searched the
Speaker 2: water at the marina. They did twenty seven searches. They
Speaker 2: could not find a body. January fourteenth, they get word
Speaker 2: that the media had gotten a hold of photos from
Speaker 2: Amber and Scott together, but they hadn't told any of
Speaker 2: the family or like Lacy's family, so they're like, fuck,
Speaker 2: we have to get you know, a move on. So
Speaker 2: they told Lacey's mom, and Lacey's mom first reaction goes,
Speaker 2: why did he have to kill her? So that kind
Speaker 2: of turned because up until this point, up until the girlfriend,
Speaker 2: Lacey's family was had Scott's back. They defended Scott in
Speaker 2: every press conference, every interview, the brother everyone was like,
Speaker 2: we love Scott. And the moment they found out about
Speaker 2: this girlfriend, everything switched. Fuck Scott will like everything switch
Speaker 2: not of course, like So January twenty fourth, two thousand
Speaker 2: and three, there's a press conference. It's one month of
Speaker 2: the disappearance, breaking news on every station. And what's kind
Speaker 2: of something to keep in mind was the invasion of
Speaker 2: Iraq and bagged Afghanistan, Like all of that was happening
Speaker 2: during this and it was equal billing, like legit this case,
Speaker 2: Like they would be talking about the war in the
Speaker 2: Middle East and cut from it for breaking news on
Speaker 2: Scott and Lacy Peterson, Like the war and this case
Speaker 2: were fully together, like as importance in our nation, breaking
Speaker 2: news on every station. This blonde girl comes out and
Speaker 2: she comes to the center and she's shaking. She's so
Speaker 2: nervous and no one knows who this is. This is
Speaker 2: like a soap opera. And it was Amber Fry and
Speaker 2: she had been given a statement to read. She said
Speaker 2: she was so nervous and so scared, and like I said,
Speaker 2: game changer. Lacey's family turned on Scott immediately. Ted Rowland,
Speaker 2: the reporter from day one, was like, Oh, this guy
Speaker 2: wasn't hiding a dead wife. He's hiding a girlfriend. He's
Speaker 2: like a fucking idiot, but he's the only one that
Speaker 2: thinks that, Like he doesn't. He is someone that doesn't
Speaker 2: think Scott did it. So he was just like, oh,
Speaker 2: he was probably just hiding his girlfriend.
Speaker 4: But I don't know. Everyone was like fuck you, Ted.
Speaker 2: So January twenty fifth, Scott calls Amber and is like,
Speaker 2: so what you called them up and asked them to
Speaker 2: do a press conference?
Speaker 4: What the fuck?
Speaker 2: And she's like, no, CBS was hounding me and my
Speaker 2: businesses and showing up and that I had to get
Speaker 2: them to get away from me. He then said he
Speaker 2: was proud of her and impressed by her character and
Speaker 2: she was brave. He said he threw up when he
Speaker 2: listened to the press conference though, So I don't really
Speaker 2: get any of this.
Speaker 4: He's so dumb.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing, Like, he is really dumb,
Speaker 2: and that's what's hard for me to understand how he
Speaker 2: was able to get away with this crime with absolutely
Speaker 2: no physical evidence if he's this dumb, right, So then
Speaker 2: Scott goes, you know what, I'm gonna go talk to
Speaker 2: the press too, and his lawyer's like, please don't talk
Speaker 2: to the press, Please don't talk to the press.
Speaker 4: He goes, I'm talking to the press.
Speaker 2: So he called Gloria Gomez and she was one of
Speaker 2: the local reporters who became very famous during this case
Speaker 2: and was very involved there every day, and she talks
Speaker 2: a lot about like all these national medias were coming,
Speaker 2: but what they didn't have was connections and relationships with
Speaker 2: the police departments. She's been on the beat, so she
Speaker 2: was getting tips from the police, like she knew everything.
Speaker 2: She was involved with everyone, and so Gloria is like
Speaker 2: a big kind of person in this case.
Speaker 4: So he did an interview with her.
Speaker 2: He sat down with Diane Sawyer and did two other
Speaker 2: local interviews and with Ted Roland and she's going inside
Speaker 2: the house whatever.
Speaker 4: His eyes were shifty.
Speaker 2: There's nothing he could have done that would have been okay,
Speaker 2: Like everyone hated him.
Speaker 4: These interviews backfired, yeah, and.
Speaker 2: They were saying, Diane Sawyer is like one of the
Speaker 2: best like journalist interviewers for decades, like a top person
Speaker 2: in her career, and it's like, you think you can
Speaker 2: go toe to toe with Diane Sawyer, like bro oh.
Speaker 2: And then he told Diane Sawyer that he had told
Speaker 2: Lacey about his affair and she was okay with it.
Speaker 2: And everyone's like, your eight month pregnant wife was okay
Speaker 2: with your affair. We don't believe you, But there's nothing
Speaker 2: you could have said or done that would have changed everything.
Speaker 2: Now we're hopping up to April April fourteenth, two thousand
Speaker 2: and three, San Francisco Bay. Gloria Gomez gets a tip
Speaker 2: and they're like, you need to get to the bay. Now.
Speaker 2: They find a torso and the body of an infant
Speaker 2: was found as well. But like I said earlier, if
Speaker 2: someone else did kill her, they let everyone know with
Speaker 2: the alibi, so I don't know. And also, what's strange
Speaker 2: about this again, if this guy is dumb enough to
Speaker 2: let everyone know his alibi and then dump the body
Speaker 2: in his alibi, he's dumb enough to leave DNA evidence
Speaker 2: and there's not there's not even a fucking hair, you know.
Speaker 4: What I mean.
Speaker 2: Like, but anyways, but now they can't find Scott. So
Speaker 2: the body is found, and now Scott's missing, so it's like,
Speaker 2: clearly you're fucking guilty. So he's in San Diego Low
Speaker 2: apparently his family is there, and he was just like
Speaker 2: trying to like get away from the attention, and then
Speaker 2: he was being followed by a car that he thought
Speaker 2: he was media, so he was like trying to escape
Speaker 2: this media car, but it was actually law enforcement and
Speaker 2: they were like, yeah, it was weird. He was flicking
Speaker 2: us off and driving crazy, and so it's the cop,
Speaker 2: so they pulled him over. He was arrested at a
Speaker 2: golf course that was thirty miles away from the Mexican border.
Speaker 4: Not good.
Speaker 2: His hair was dyed blonde with a beard, not good.
Speaker 2: He had around ten to fifteen grand with him, camping gear,
Speaker 2: his brother's ID, and four cell phones.
Speaker 4: So I can't wait to get to how you think
Speaker 4: this guy didn't do it. I didn't say he didn't
Speaker 4: do it.
Speaker 1: Oh no, No, you didn't say that he didn't.
Speaker 4: I didn't say that.
Speaker 2: I believe if you cannot prove when, how, and where,
Speaker 2: you cannot charge someone guilty. Okay, I think Casey Anthony
Speaker 2: killed her baby.
Speaker 4: I have for Shuren. Casey Anthony murdered her baby.
Speaker 2: She was found innocent because you can't how do you
Speaker 2: sentence someone?
Speaker 4: And if you can't prove it, well, I think.
Speaker 1: You also incentivize people to get rid of bodies and
Speaker 1: evidence so that they cannot get there's enough circumstantial. But
Speaker 1: he's an idiot, like, yeah, but he told his fucking
Speaker 1: mistress that I'll be alone on Christmas without my wife.
Speaker 1: I mean, this shit's nuts again. If that wasn't a
Speaker 1: dumb ass, if that was a dumb ass line to
Speaker 1: his mistress.
Speaker 4: It's really fucking coincidental. But someone went and killed his mistress.
Speaker 2: But they also did twenty seven searches for that body
Speaker 2: in that body of water and did not d that's
Speaker 2: the same.
Speaker 1: So that's where his boat is. San Francisco Bay. Yeah wow, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so maybe it was dumped later. You say it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: He could be a guilty as fuck.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, like, the reason we have courtrooms is like, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: you're right, because one of those system will get to everything.
Speaker 4: Obviously, this is a giant case. I'm trying to make it.
Speaker 2: But like one of the jurors after the trial went
Speaker 2: on Larry King, and Larry King was like, so what happened?
Speaker 2: And the jur goes, can you clarify that question? And
Speaker 2: Larry goes, no, you're on the jury. You just sentenced
Speaker 2: a man to death. Tell me what happened. And the
Speaker 2: juror couldn't. And I'm sorry, Like that's just not you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like, yeah, I don't think he
Speaker 2: did not do it. I'm just saying the investigation was
Speaker 2: fucked and he didn't have a fair trial. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm not on his side, But I'm on the side
Speaker 2: of like the court system. I mean, the trial was
Speaker 2: fucked and like there's recently they took away his death
Speaker 2: sentence because the trial was so bad and the jury selection,
Speaker 2: but he was still found guilty of the crime. So
Speaker 2: like there is evidence that links him to it. It's
Speaker 2: just like sorry, Taylor Swift, nobody, no crime, Okay, anyways,
Speaker 2: legit no evidence found in the warehouse or at his
Speaker 2: house at all.
Speaker 4: There were media leaks.
Speaker 2: From cop friends to the reporters and leaking stories. So
Speaker 2: what the cops wanted to get out is what got out.
Speaker 2: His boat was tiny, like to conceal one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty pound body in his tiny boat is wild and
Speaker 2: it would capsize like they tried to. Like also in
Speaker 2: the midd like Dexter goes out at night for a reason. Okay,
Speaker 2: Like you're telling me this motherfucker on his tiny boat
Speaker 2: had a full on body and dumped it in the
Speaker 2: middle of the day in the bay. Like it just
Speaker 2: it just kind of doesn't make sense. But he's dumb,
Speaker 2: so he could have. So Mark Garagos becomes Scot's attorney,
Speaker 2: and he is the hot shot attorney of all attorneys
Speaker 2: every celebrity. He loved attention, he loved fame. He costs
Speaker 2: a million dollars and the family was able to like
Speaker 2: sell shit and pay for him. So he's a million dollars.
Speaker 2: But the thing is he's kind of a beloved guy
Speaker 2: because he did all these famous cases. He was always
Speaker 2: a talking head. He was on the news all the time,
Speaker 2: and his people told him like, bro, once you do this,
Speaker 2: you will not be liked ever again. But I bet
Speaker 2: he was like, I'm gonna be rich forever, Like I'm.
Speaker 4: Gonna you know.
Speaker 2: So he got the best attorney in the game. Matthew
Speaker 2: Dalton was the investigating defense attorney, and with the discovery law,
Speaker 2: the police had to turn over everything they had regarding
Speaker 2: the case, thirty thousand pages of documents, and he went
Speaker 2: through every single one. He spent over one hundred hours
Speaker 2: with the jail in jail with him, he got to
Speaker 2: know Scott very very well. But they made Scott and
Speaker 2: this attorney meet in interrogation rooms, and so they were
Speaker 2: scared that the detectives were listening in, and so they
Speaker 2: had to write down everything and they only communicated by
Speaker 2: writing things back and forth because they did not trust
Speaker 2: that they were not being spied on on the two
Speaker 2: way mirror. Oh, and then to test the theory, this
Speaker 2: guy started talking shit about one of the cops and
Speaker 2: when he left, his tires had been slashed. Now, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: but how do you make this trial non bias? He's
Speaker 2: the most hated man in America. He's on the cover
Speaker 2: of every tabloid magazine everywhere. But they only moved the
Speaker 2: trial fifteen minutes away, and it was closer to San
Speaker 2: Francisco where the body was found, so everyone knew, like,
Speaker 2: how are you gonna find someone that doesn't know about
Speaker 2: this case? So the trial took place in San Mateo County.
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't they have, like what the move it to Tennessee?
Speaker 2: Like what is happening? Like, you know, fifty percent of
Speaker 2: the people that came in to be jurors admitted that
Speaker 2: they thought he was guilty. They barely could find people
Speaker 2: that would be open to giving him.
Speaker 4: A fair trial.
Speaker 2: The jury was finally chosen after talking to hundreds and
Speaker 2: hundreds of people, but they weren't able to sequester the
Speaker 2: jury because it would have been too expensive because the
Speaker 2: case was going to be so long, and they actually like,
Speaker 2: this trial was such a zoo. They had a lottery
Speaker 2: for people to get in to watch the trial, Like
Speaker 2: people were lining up around like to get a fucking
Speaker 2: seat in that trial. So anyways, the trial went on
Speaker 2: for eight months, and so they asked everyone to please
Speaker 2: not talk about the case.
Speaker 4: But it's like, lol, okay.
Speaker 2: They were also not allowed to read newspapers or watch
Speaker 2: the news. But again, even if you tried, how are
Speaker 2: you avoiding the number one big thing in the case,
Speaker 2: I mean in the country. And then something that happened
Speaker 2: that I've never thought about in this A and E
Speaker 2: documentary was about how everyone walks in through one door.
Speaker 2: Every single person goes through security. So jurors, family members, everyone,
Speaker 2: and they were given permission the jury to say good
Speaker 2: morning and hello.
Speaker 4: But that was it.
Speaker 2: But I just never thought about that, like duh, they're
Speaker 2: all intermingling. But then one juror got dismissed because he
Speaker 2: said something to the brother of Lacy on the fourth
Speaker 2: week of the trial. All he said, but the camera
Speaker 2: a camera was nearby, was oh, I'm ruining the shot.
Speaker 2: I guess you won't be on the news today, And
Speaker 2: that's what got him dismissed.
Speaker 4: Huh, I don't know.
Speaker 2: He also was talking about the witnesses to other jurors
Speaker 2: and they're not allowed to discuss the trial at all,
Speaker 2: and he kept trying to talk about the case, and
Speaker 2: so another juror told on him and got him housted. Okay,
Speaker 2: so this is where shit becomes fucked. So the judge
Speaker 2: also during the selection ask people if you are against
Speaker 2: the death penalty and if they and if they were,
Speaker 2: they were not allowed to sit on the jury. So
Speaker 2: anyone that was on that jury was okay sentencing him
Speaker 2: to death, which is fucked up because the judge didn't
Speaker 2: ask like, are you even if you are against the
Speaker 2: death penalty, are you capable of like sentencing him to
Speaker 2: death if needed or like with the law, And the
Speaker 2: judge never asked that. He legit dismissed anyone that is
Speaker 2: not for the death penalty, which you can't fucking do.
Speaker 2: So basically he just turned the trial into, you know,
Speaker 2: just a death trial.
Speaker 4: The judge even made an.
Speaker 2: Announcement like, if there's circumstantial evidence that gives two possible outcomes,
Speaker 2: you must accept the one of innocence.
Speaker 4: You have to be proven guilty.
Speaker 2: He did say that, but he denied any mistrial even
Speaker 2: though the jurors were like blabbing and causing all this problem.
Speaker 2: And then one of the jurors started doing news and
Speaker 2: interviews and just blabbing to anyone that would let like
Speaker 2: listen to him. So Justin Faulkner, this juror who kept
Speaker 2: blab to all the media outlets, that's how everyone found
Speaker 2: out that the prosecution was like fucking up.
Speaker 4: The prosecution was doing a really bad job.
Speaker 2: And I talked to I mean, Casey Anthony was our pilot,
Speaker 2: so like it's not released and we're waiting till we
Speaker 2: get Hillary Duff one day.
Speaker 4: But a big thing with that is.
Speaker 2: And I talked about this with sports, where it's like
Speaker 2: if you think you have it in the bag, you're
Speaker 2: not gonna try as hard because you're cocky. So you're
Speaker 2: coming in so cocky that the defense is working so
Speaker 2: hard you can't pull that shit. And that's what happened
Speaker 2: with Casey Anthony, and it happened here too. The prosecution
Speaker 2: was like, oh, we got him, and they really really
Speaker 2: fucked up the case. They were getting like squashed in court.
Speaker 2: They were getting squashed. There's a time where it flips,
Speaker 2: and we'll get to it obviously, but like they just
Speaker 2: were really, really doing a bad job. And that's what
Speaker 2: I talk about with sports, like if you're playing the
Speaker 2: best team, they don't respect you, they might not try
Speaker 2: as hard. So if you come in playing basketball as
Speaker 2: hard as you can, you can win. So the crux
Speaker 2: of the prosecution's opening statement for motive is that Scott
Speaker 2: didn't want to be a dad and wanted to be out,
Speaker 2: like out fucking and free, and instead of divorce, he
Speaker 2: chose murder. The defensive opening statements on the second day
Speaker 2: of the trial was an aggressive, like Mars aggressive, and
Speaker 2: basically his whole thing is you might not like him,
Speaker 2: but he's not guilty, Like he might be a piece
Speaker 2: of shit and a cheater and a liar, but he's
Speaker 2: not guilty even if you don't like him. And he
Speaker 2: had a got you moment right away in the opening statements.
Speaker 2: The prosecution said that he lied about like the more
Speaker 2: watching Martha Stewart that morning because there was no meraingue
Speaker 2: mentioned in that episode, and then Mark's defense played the
Speaker 2: clip and the meringue was on in that episode.
Speaker 1: I cannot believe Martha's morangue was such a huge part
Speaker 1: of the opening.
Speaker 2: Yes, and to me, it's like, wait, you put that
Speaker 2: big of a mistake in your opening statements, prosecution, you
Speaker 2: didn't even watch the episode.
Speaker 4: That huge Yeah, that's bad.
Speaker 2: And the prosecution had all of these witnesses and expert people,
Speaker 2: and the defense just mopped the floor with all of
Speaker 2: them and pokesholes through every single one of the witnesses,
Speaker 2: like to the point like embarrassed the shit out of
Speaker 2: everything the prosecution did. And so they had this computer
Speaker 2: expert on and they didn't ask this, And then the
Speaker 2: defense asked questions and basically they got evidence that in
Speaker 2: the computer in the day in the house, someone was
Speaker 2: looking at umbrellas with a sunflower pattern and she loved
Speaker 2: sunflowers and had all of these sunflower outfits. So who
Speaker 2: was in who was on the computer? So the prosecution
Speaker 2: didn't even ask these questions of their own witness and
Speaker 2: the defense came up and was like, wait, with someone
Speaker 2: on the computer in the house, yes, who was it?
Speaker 2: No one knows, Like if he set up the computer
Speaker 2: sunflower thing and like went on the computer, then he
Speaker 2: would have tried to like push it into evidence or
Speaker 2: be like no, look, someone was on the co Like
Speaker 2: it was a surprise to him too. So I don't know,
Speaker 2: but there was just no solid evidence and there was
Speaker 2: a lot of back and forth situations and a lot
Speaker 2: of flops with.
Speaker 4: The prosecution.
Speaker 1: They were prosecutions a Floppiana.
Speaker 4: I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2: And it is tough, Like I know, the doc I
Speaker 2: watched is bias, like it's his family trying to free him,
Speaker 2: you know. But I but like the people that they
Speaker 2: interviewed throughout the dock, Like they asked one of the
Speaker 2: reporters Gloria, They're like, do you think he did it?
Speaker 4: And she goes, is that a real question?
Speaker 2: And then starts laughing, and she goes that jury should
Speaker 2: be sleeping well at night. So they did put in
Speaker 2: stuff where I don't know, it's just tough. I'm just
Speaker 2: like embarrassed, and I would love people to take me
Speaker 2: off this path, you know what I mean, Like I
Speaker 2: would like to not be on Scott.
Speaker 4: Petersons side here. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then our beloved detective on this on the stand,
Speaker 2: Al BROKINI he was caught in a lie. He said
Speaker 2: that Lacy had never been to the warehouse and didn't
Speaker 2: know he had a boat. But then there was a
Speaker 2: witness who said that she had seen Lacy there the
Speaker 2: night before, and like.
Speaker 1: Interesting, she was at the warehouse the night before she
Speaker 1: died or the night before she was disappeared.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that seems weird too.
Speaker 2: And then it was written and then al redacted it
Speaker 2: from the report, so that means he's concealing evidence by
Speaker 2: dropping a paragraph.
Speaker 4: And so Mark ripped into al and.
Speaker 2: People said that it was wild, like everyone that was
Speaker 2: there because you know what would happen is so everyone
Speaker 2: would do the lottery. All the press, everyone was fighting
Speaker 2: to watch this trial, and then during little breaks, the
Speaker 2: press would run out and do quick interviews and like
Speaker 2: all these legal like panel people were living it up,
Speaker 2: and so it was like people just like would run
Speaker 2: out and be like al Brokeini got.
Speaker 4: Smashed in core, you know.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was just like a sporting event. So
Speaker 2: I don't know, I guess he lied. He got caught
Speaker 2: in Alive. Back to the case after al Brokeini was humiliated. No,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it was it would be weird
Speaker 2: that she was there the night before, yes, doing word.
Speaker 1: At his warehouse. What's his warehouse for anyway?
Speaker 2: Well, he was a fertilizer salesman, So I think it's
Speaker 2: like his computer, he held his boat. It was like
Speaker 2: a work kind of thing. There was some concrete there,
Speaker 2: like basically they said that she put there. Yeah, there
Speaker 2: was loose concrete also, but it was circumstantial, like you,
Speaker 2: I don't know whatever. Yeah, I just like saying circumstantial.
Speaker 2: So I feel like I'm on the show. And then
Speaker 2: everyone said that Scott showed absolutely no emotion during the trial,
Speaker 2: even when the autopsy photos were shown of his dead
Speaker 2: wife and baby, like, no looking at him, no reaction, nothing, wow.
Speaker 4: And that's according to the jurors.
Speaker 2: And then one of the day one reporters, Ted, he
Speaker 2: said that he did have a reaction, it was just
Speaker 2: not reported. And it's like, Ted, I don't shut up.
Speaker 2: Dead's on Scott's side. His head is on Scott's side.
Speaker 2: I gotta find Ted. But then the big twist of
Speaker 2: the trial and the switch from the prosecution from like
Speaker 2: the defense winning to the prosecution came when Amber Fry's
Speaker 2: recordings came out in the trial.
Speaker 4: And once you hear them.
Speaker 2: It changed the dynamic because even the defense knew that
Speaker 2: they were screwed. His complete not caring about his wife
Speaker 2: and just flirting with Amber was chilling to listen to
Speaker 2: to like straight up you're at the like no emotion
Speaker 2: at all. So now one of the defense attorneys is like,
Speaker 2: you know, it was played out like this huge affair,
Speaker 2: but they actually only saw each other four times, so
Speaker 2: I don't know, it was just a few weeks. It
Speaker 2: was just a few week affair. But I don't know.
Speaker 1: He was obviously really into her or into the idea
Speaker 1: of leaving his family.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I just don't think. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't but I wonder if he ever felt anything ever,
Speaker 2: or if he is associated Like I wonder if he
Speaker 2: ever showed emotion or did anything of that sort. And
Speaker 2: Amber is a character witness, one legal analyst said, and
Speaker 2: had any nothing to actually do with the case, but
Speaker 2: it put his character into play. So oh, and then
Speaker 2: this is really fun with Amber. So Amber, you know,
Speaker 2: all this is happening, and she is in the limelay
Speaker 2: and her dad calls her and was like, hey, I
Speaker 2: just saw this lawyer on TV and I think you
Speaker 2: should contact her. And it was Gloria already, of course,
Speaker 2: so Gloria came to help Amber, and just it was
Speaker 2: pretty amazing because what Gloria was saying, like if she
Speaker 2: wanted to, and she was a shady character. She could
Speaker 2: have sold those photos to the press and made millions
Speaker 2: of dollars. This was the top case in the fucking nation. Like,
Speaker 2: if she was a nefarious and had like shady shit
Speaker 2: to do, she wouldn't have had to work undercover for
Speaker 2: the police.
Speaker 4: She could have just sold that shit.
Speaker 2: So you know, that was like bit Gloria's big push,
Speaker 2: like that she did the right thing, and then she
Speaker 2: was treated so poorly by the media, and the media
Speaker 2: was like, she's uglier than Lacey, She's dumber than Lacey.
Speaker 2: Fuck this slut it's and it was like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's actually doing the right thing. She's like trying to
Speaker 1: find out who did this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then racy photos came out of her and
Speaker 2: like sexy laundry and stuff, and people.
Speaker 4: Didn't like that.
Speaker 2: So August tenth, two thousand and four, it was Amber's
Speaker 2: turn to take the stand, and it was two years
Speaker 2: had passed from the first time that she'd even seen
Speaker 2: Scott face to face, and.
Speaker 4: She knocked it out of the park.
Speaker 2: She was working for the cops and did keep prodding
Speaker 2: and questioning him and bringing up Lacey and did you
Speaker 2: love her and did you do it? He never incriminated
Speaker 2: it himself, and he always just brought up finding her,
Speaker 2: like we need to find her. That was his big
Speaker 2: thing where it was like, why are you focused on me?
Speaker 2: Go find her? You're wasting time and I'm scared that
Speaker 2: this is going to stop the investigation to find her.
Speaker 4: But also then why didn't you let them.
Speaker 2: Just search your house and take the polygraph and like
Speaker 2: do all of these things that would help the investigation.
Speaker 2: He did come across as a creep and that it's
Speaker 2: easy to lie from him, and there was an anger
Speaker 2: at Scott from the jury and prosecution got some momentum
Speaker 2: and that was, like I said, the switch of the
Speaker 2: trial and then more evidence that I mentioned this earlier,
Speaker 2: like the defense did experiments with the boat and like
Speaker 2: putting in one hundred and fifty pounds and trying to
Speaker 2: like take it off the boat, and the boat would
Speaker 2: flip over, like the boat would capsize. There's no way
Speaker 2: off of such a tiny boat.
Speaker 1: It sounds like he had like literally like a little
Speaker 1: motor boat, like not like a.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, like a pontoon boat like this was not
Speaker 2: like a nice ass below deck style.
Speaker 4: No, I mean I didn't think it was a yacht.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't even sound like it's like a real
Speaker 1: like but it sounds like it's a motor boat where
Speaker 1: you go sit and like drink a beer and stick
Speaker 1: your little rod in the water and see what happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was like metal, yeah yeah, the metal, yeah.
Speaker 1: Like the kind of that's the kind of boat that
Speaker 1: I think takes people from the dock to their big boat.
Speaker 4: It's like the dinghy basically, yes, but that was his
Speaker 4: big thing. Oh and then this was this was wild.
Speaker 2: So the prosecution said that this dog tracked Lacey's sent
Speaker 2: all the way to the marina. And but then we
Speaker 2: find out this dog failed two tests to become certified.
Speaker 4: This was.
Speaker 1: It's a community college police dog.
Speaker 4: Oh no.
Speaker 2: So and then also they're just like if she was
Speaker 2: already dead and in the boat and bags and never
Speaker 2: on the like, how would the scent stay on this marina?
Speaker 4: You know what I mean. It was just kind of wild.
Speaker 2: But people loved the dog, and they interviewed jurors after,
Speaker 2: and the jurors were on the dog side, Like a
Speaker 2: lot of jurors decided their decision because of this dog.
Speaker 4: But the dog was a failure.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying the people that went to community
Speaker 1: college are a failure. Please don't come for me. I
Speaker 1: think it's funny that this dog like is basically like
Speaker 1: the girl who's the woman from fucking o C who's
Speaker 1: husband failed the bar seven times.
Speaker 4: That's this dog like.
Speaker 2: Emily and Emily, Emily and no Emily and oh god,
Speaker 2: he's horrible.
Speaker 4: What's his name? Shane, Shane.
Speaker 2: This dog is Shane, a different dog with a different handler.
Speaker 2: Did not scent Lacy on this dog, okay, But the
Speaker 2: jurors were hardcore on this dog. It was like one
Speaker 2: of the women being interviewed in this dog was just
Speaker 2: like they're like what what what made you choose him?
Speaker 2: And she, you know, say guilty and she was like
Speaker 2: the dog, absolutely the dog.
Speaker 4: And we'll get to this jury.
Speaker 2: This juror, she had a nickname called like they called
Speaker 2: her Strawberry Shortcake, and she was a backup jury.
Speaker 4: I mean, the jury stuff is really wild.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get through this evidence so we can
Speaker 2: fucking get in it, okay. And the big thing was
Speaker 2: like the body was found where he said he was
Speaker 2: gonna be so like if the body was found anywhere
Speaker 2: else he could have been easily like cleared of the crimes.
Speaker 4: It's just so many coincidences.
Speaker 1: If it's not him, it's a lot of fucking coincidences,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, absolutely so. Then closing arguments happened in November.
Speaker 2: I mean, what a fucking trial. The prosecution closing got
Speaker 2: the jury to cry. And basically, you know, some people
Speaker 2: say they subbed emotion for hardcore evidence, but they didn't
Speaker 2: have hardcore evidence.
Speaker 4: So this is what you do.
Speaker 2: The defense kind of bombed bad day to have a
Speaker 2: bad day, but the defense did not nail it and
Speaker 2: really just had terrible closing arguments. And I've said this
Speaker 2: is where I'm coming from, not that he didn't do it,
Speaker 2: but if he's dumb enough to dump the body where
Speaker 2: he said he was going to be, he was dumb
Speaker 2: enough to leave evidence somewhere, a hair, blood lumin like
Speaker 2: something should.
Speaker 4: Have caught something right like that. If you're that dumb,
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: But like let me, let me let me just say,
Speaker 1: like he he like he chokes her. Let's say maybe
Speaker 1: he doesn't hit her, maybe he chokes her to death.
Speaker 1: Like her hair being anywhere is not a red flag
Speaker 1: he's her white like he's her his wife. So it's
Speaker 1: like this is like this if he chokes her desk
Speaker 1: so that there's no blood and we don't know because
Speaker 1: her fucking head was missing, So I don't even know
Speaker 1: if they could determine cause of death. It's just like
Speaker 1: there is I'm not saying he's not not dumb.
Speaker 4: I think he is dumb, but.
Speaker 1: I think it's possible he lucked intill not leaving any evidence, lucked.
Speaker 4: Into for sure.
Speaker 2: It's just like because even the police that testified where
Speaker 2: their theory was that she he killed her the twenty third,
Speaker 2: but it's like she was seen the twenty four. You know,
Speaker 2: there just wasn't concrete evidence like unfortunately, like I but yeah, and.
Speaker 1: It is wild. It is wild to think what you said,
Speaker 1: like if she was seen the morning of Christmas Eve,
Speaker 1: and like them, by the evening of Christmas Eve, the
Speaker 1: police are being called when did he dump her? Like
Speaker 1: if he dumped her at eleven am when they found
Speaker 1: the dog wandering around, that's the middle of the fucking day.
Speaker 1: So yeah, how are you getting rid of a body
Speaker 1: in the middle of the day.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like you don't have a wood chipper. I don't.
Speaker 4: It just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2: And you're right, he could have just choked her out,
Speaker 2: but then what it's heavy. He does have a truck,
Speaker 2: he could have put the body on the truck.
Speaker 1: But then, like, I just think getting rid of her
Speaker 1: in the middle of the day on this bay would
Speaker 1: have been difficult with nobody seeing you.
Speaker 4: But I don't know the area. No, I agree with it.
Speaker 2: And also like who else is fishing on Christmas? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't think Jews really fish. If you're a Jew
Speaker 2: that goes fishing, let me know.
Speaker 4: I don't know how to Orthodox Jews, like what's that
Speaker 4: guy doing?
Speaker 2: But I have to be honest with myself the fact that,
Speaker 2: like I was pissed Casey Anthony wasn't found guilty, you know,
Speaker 2: like I understand the thing of like I don't I
Speaker 2: know you fucking killed that baby. I don't care if
Speaker 2: the evidence doesn't show it. So it is like I
Speaker 2: don't know why I feel kind of like I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just I just don't want to suddenly be like
Speaker 2: the cops did a great investigation.
Speaker 4: It's like, we know cops fuck up investigations.
Speaker 1: Well, and are you more mad that he was found
Speaker 1: guilty or found that or that he was sentenced to death,
Speaker 1: because I think we're also both just anti death penalty.
Speaker 2: I think it's wild to sentence someone to death without
Speaker 2: a creedo, I do.
Speaker 4: I think it's like really fucked up. Yeah, well now
Speaker 4: he's not getting death anywhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it could have been because of this doc. Honestly,
Speaker 2: it's around the same time, so whatever, let's get So
Speaker 2: jury started deliberating and they took an initial vote and
Speaker 2: it was ten to two. Then day five of deliberating,
Speaker 2: a jur confessed to doing their own research and was
Speaker 2: taken off the case and was replaced by.
Speaker 1: An alternate jur Are you an idiot?
Speaker 2: And so this alternate juror was watching the whole time,
Speaker 2: and from the beginning she cried the whole case like
Speaker 2: she was so emotional, so into it, and they called
Speaker 2: her Strawberry Shortcake, and I am obsessed with her. But
Speaker 2: she is the reason he's not getting sentenced to death
Speaker 2: because she did such fucked up shit.
Speaker 4: So they had to start.
Speaker 2: Over deliberating, and things got so wild, and they hated
Speaker 2: the foreman and needed to replace the foreman. And so
Speaker 2: there's gossip that a jur threatened him and there were
Speaker 2: just fights and everyone thought he was guilty, but the
Speaker 2: foreman was just focused on the facts. So they dismissed
Speaker 2: the foreman. What yeah, how is that possible? You're supposed
Speaker 2: to that's a hung jury. If the foreman won't change,
Speaker 2: then that's a hung jury.
Speaker 4: They didn't want to mistrial.
Speaker 2: I have no idea, but like the guy that they
Speaker 2: say threatened him and like physically assaulted him denies it.
Speaker 2: But there were just scuffles and the foreman was let go.
Speaker 2: They let go, So the guy that wanted to like
Speaker 2: go through the evidence was let go and the guy
Speaker 2: who threatened him got to stay. Like if why don't
Speaker 2: you get rid of both of them? Yeah, like, why
Speaker 2: aren't you getting rid of the one that threatened And
Speaker 2: they don't have Maybe they.
Speaker 1: Only have so many alternates that were there for the trial.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: And you're right, if he stuck around, it would have
Speaker 2: been a hung jury. So then listen to this. November eleventh,
Speaker 2: two thousand and four, another new replacement came in and
Speaker 2: the next day.
Speaker 4: They had their verdict.
Speaker 2: That's right, So the final vote was twelve zero. The
Speaker 2: verdict was in Friday morning and they only met up
Speaker 2: on Thursday afternoon with the new juror, so in nine
Speaker 2: hours and what so, like the defense attorney actually like
Speaker 2: when there was a new jur he goes, oh, I
Speaker 2: can go back to la for the weekend, and even
Speaker 2: Scott's sister was like, okay, cool, I'll go back to
Speaker 2: San Diego and come back next week.
Speaker 4: And then they all got called in the next day. Crazy.
Speaker 2: So then one of the jurors they come in to
Speaker 2: read the verdict and Gloria Gomez, the reporter, said that
Speaker 2: she saw one of the jurors wink at Lacey's mother before.
Speaker 4: The verdict was read.
Speaker 2: Oh no, but when the verdict was read inside they
Speaker 2: said they you can hear the cheering outside like people
Speaker 2: were they were partying. It was people were very, very
Speaker 2: excited for this Scot talk in this dock. No, oh,
Speaker 2: they're so in twenty seventeen. I mean, he's in San
Speaker 2: Quentin and so there's voice conversations, so there's just like
Speaker 2: voiceover and close captioning of what he said. But he's
Speaker 2: in jail, no video.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: I was just wondering if he was still like so unaffected.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's just like a cool.
Speaker 4: I think he's like Dexter.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I have dogs cheering for the verdict outside of
Speaker 1: my fucking place right now, if you can hear dogs.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he's still you know, he's he says he's innocent.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So then things got tricky.
Speaker 2: So after the jury, this legal expert who was doing
Speaker 2: a lot of press during the trial outside the court steps,
Speaker 2: said that a friend came up to her and said,
Speaker 2: a bunch of the jurors were hanging out at this
Speaker 2: bar and talking about the case and how they're gonna
Speaker 2: get Scott Peterson. And since she's an officer of the court,
Speaker 2: she had to say something, you know, because like you're
Speaker 2: deciding if someone lives or dies, like you follow the rules.
Speaker 4: So she did tell the judge.
Speaker 2: The judge brought the bartender in, who pled the fifth,
Speaker 2: and the juror got to stay on the case and
Speaker 2: everything stayed normal.
Speaker 1: Why would the bartender plead the fifth? What's the bartender
Speaker 1: gonna get like you please? He could have lied, oh okay.
Speaker 2: Or he didn't want to overturn this thing because everyone
Speaker 2: was so happy.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, you plead the fifth to not incriminate yourself.
Speaker 1: But I guess he's just trying to like keep the
Speaker 1: verdict upheld.
Speaker 2: But yeah, maybe he was just trying to be cool
Speaker 2: and like bragging to this woman who said, okay, well,
Speaker 2: I'm an officer of the court, Like you're putting me
Speaker 2: in a fucked up place. So during the sentencing hearing,
Speaker 2: Lacy's mom, Sharon did take the stand. Everybody cried. Press
Speaker 2: the Watcher's jury, everyone was crying. So then after this trial, though,
Speaker 2: they made celebrities out of these jurors, and the Strawberry
Speaker 2: Shortcake legit came out and called him an asshole, said,
Speaker 2: welcome to your new home, San Quentin, you asshole. Like
Speaker 2: people all these jurors were going all over television doing
Speaker 2: interviews and they became kind of like very popular for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was just okay to like outwardly hate
Speaker 1: this man like he was yes, oh yeah.
Speaker 4: Wow yeah.
Speaker 2: And like.
Speaker 4: Also, of course this jury's dumb.
Speaker 2: You had to find people who had no idea about
Speaker 2: this case and didn't have it, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like it is kind of wild. And at the end,
Speaker 2: so he was sentenced to you know, death by lethal injection.
Speaker 2: The thing is, to me, this case is not solved. Yeah,
Speaker 2: to me, Okay, I don't think this case is solved,
Speaker 2: like if he is guilty, like prove it.
Speaker 4: I don't know. Yeah, it was not proven to me.
Speaker 2: But if I was on that jury and it was
Speaker 2: two thousand and three or whatever, I don't know if
Speaker 2: I would have found him not guilt, I might have
Speaker 2: charged him.
Speaker 4: I think he absolutely did it.
Speaker 1: I just think did I agree with you that the
Speaker 1: police work is bad? I mean, this is very making
Speaker 1: a murderer. Like I for a while was like he's innocent,
Speaker 1: and then it was like people were like caro, like
Speaker 1: any I'm like, all right.
Speaker 4: You know, but I don't think they proved it. I
Speaker 4: didn't watch that one. Oh man, I was obsessed. I
Speaker 4: watched it twice.
Speaker 2: Should I watch it? Is that something I should go
Speaker 2: back and watch?
Speaker 1: I think so.
Speaker 4: I mean it was I was like obsessed.
Speaker 1: I think now, especially that you've researched cases like this
Speaker 1: and stuff, you would be so fascinated.
Speaker 4: Ooh okay.
Speaker 2: So Scott Peterson's appeal was filed in twenty twelve, and
Speaker 2: the biggest issues for the case, they said, was like
Speaker 2: the dog evidence. Oh and the hydrologists, like they study
Speaker 2: I guess water patterns that testified in the courtroom, like
Speaker 2: he was saying how the bodies would have shifted in
Speaker 2: all this. He had absolutely no expertise, never did a
Speaker 2: study and never practiced it, but he was allowed to testify.
Speaker 4: Whatever.
Speaker 2: There's just like all these issues with the appeal and
Speaker 2: they wanted to overturn the death penalty. So I don't
Speaker 2: you know whatever, There's lots of like this, this, this, this,
Speaker 2: I don't care. But where's doctor Michael Badden And why
Speaker 2: was he not involved in this case?
Speaker 4: I'm telling you, if.
Speaker 2: They fucking called him and he showed up, he would
Speaker 2: have found some motherfucking evidence.
Speaker 4: Okay, he would have found.
Speaker 1: Some other Yah, doctor Henry Lee, Let's get somebody in here.
Speaker 2: So then this is all just like grasping from straws,
Speaker 2: maybe from the Scott's side or.
Speaker 4: Things are real.
Speaker 2: There was a mailman that said that the dog barked
Speaker 2: at him every single day, and on Christmas Eve the
Speaker 2: dog did not bark.
Speaker 4: And he so the dog was not there. Okay.
Speaker 2: There's a tip from a correctional officer that the burglars
Speaker 2: were caught talking about Lacy on tape and I was
Speaker 2: sent to the police, but the police never got it.
Speaker 2: And the tape went missing, and that was that, Like
Speaker 2: the police didn't log it or use it.
Speaker 4: The burglars from across the street.
Speaker 2: Yeah okay, And they said when they were interrogating the burglars,
Speaker 2: one of the burglars went, I don't know anything about
Speaker 2: that pregnant woman, and the cop went, we're not here
Speaker 2: to talk about that, We're here to talk about the burglary,
Speaker 2: and then never brought it up again.
Speaker 4: But again, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: We don't know what's sitting outside reporting on it, so
Speaker 1: that could be why the guy brought it up.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, but if I was a good dete,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what it is to
Speaker 2: be a good detective or not. I don't do the job.
Speaker 2: But I feel if someone said that, you'd be like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: I never even mentioned it.
Speaker 4: What do you know about the pregnant woman?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like you wait until they hang themselves. Isn't
Speaker 2: that the whole point that we learn.
Speaker 4: It as.
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 2: So yeah, they say that maybe Lacy confronted the burglars,
Speaker 2: but then why would they keep their body.
Speaker 4: For so long?
Speaker 2: There's just like two fucking much jury drama whatever, and
Speaker 2: the one thing that the defense attorney said he he
Speaker 2: thinks Scott's innison.
Speaker 4: He keeps saying that, but he he.
Speaker 2: Said, you can't really judge people act during grief, and
Speaker 2: he's like, I've been doing this for decades and you
Speaker 2: really can't decide if someone did it or not by
Speaker 2: how they grieve and.
Speaker 1: No, same like did I have? I talked about this
Speaker 1: on the podcast how you know how? I was like
Speaker 1: on Dateline one time because the girl I went to
Speaker 1: college with her husband disappeared from the crew. Yeah, people
Speaker 1: were like being so sketchy about her because she was
Speaker 1: going on all these TV shows talking about her husband
Speaker 1: disappearing from the cruise, but she wasn't crying, and they
Speaker 1: were all like, what the fuck, this is sketchy. She
Speaker 1: had something to do.
Speaker 4: With it, And it's like, no, she's just not crying.
Speaker 1: Like everybody handles grief in a different way, like they
Speaker 1: just everybody just wants, especially from a woman. People just
Speaker 1: want to see a specific reaction of like hysteria, to
Speaker 1: know that you're like, you have nothing to do with it.
Speaker 4: Do you think your friend killed her husband? No, I
Speaker 4: don't think she had anything to do with it.
Speaker 2: So August twenty twenty, the Supreme Court did overturn the
Speaker 2: death penalty, but they upheld the convictions.
Speaker 4: So all those mistakes.
Speaker 1: So just like a year and a half ago, okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there were The juris election was the biggest flaw.
Speaker 2: But I don't know how you overturn the death sentence
Speaker 2: because of the jury selection, but not do a mistrial
Speaker 2: like another trial, Like if the jury is all the
Speaker 2: jury errors led to an unfair death conviction, how did
Speaker 2: it not lead to an unfair trial. I don't really
Speaker 2: understand that, but I guess there's evidence that obviously they
Speaker 2: upheld it for some some sort of reason. But the
Speaker 2: big errors were jury selection. So the big thing, you know,
Speaker 2: I mentioned Strawberry Shortcake earlier. Her big thing that fucked
Speaker 2: up this case is she lied on her questionnaire. So
Speaker 2: you know, they ask you all these questions, and they asked,
Speaker 2: have you ever been a victim of a crime or
Speaker 2: like yeah, in a legal battle, and she said no,
Speaker 2: and that is fully not true. So she failed to
Speaker 2: disclose that she was involved in legal proceedings and that
Speaker 2: she was a victim of a crime. Basically, she was
Speaker 2: granted a restraining order in two thousand against her boyfriends
Speaker 2: ex girlfriend for harassing her when she was pregnant. Oh wow,
Speaker 2: so you legit have someone on the jury who was
Speaker 2: attacked while they were pregnant.
Speaker 4: Yeah what okay, Yeah that seems like a bad move. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But December eighth, twenty twenty one, so even more recently,
Speaker 2: he was resentenced to life in prison.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, like a mother dodge. Yeow. So he's there.
Speaker 2: And then Sharon did show up to that hearing and
Speaker 2: she was like, you're a coward. You didn't want to
Speaker 2: be a dad, But Connor would have been eighteen by
Speaker 2: now and you would have been free of child support,
Speaker 2: So like what the fuck? And she's like, Lacy and
Speaker 2: Connor will always be dead and you will always be
Speaker 2: the murderer. So that is the final words from Lacy
Speaker 2: Peterson's mother, Sharon.
Speaker 4: So other things I liked.
Speaker 2: Scott's dad called Nancy Grace live on the air to
Speaker 2: tell him how he feels, and it got really heated
Speaker 2: and he's like, don't interrupt me.
Speaker 4: You've had your time to talk.
Speaker 2: And so the dad called and just like fought with
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace on the air. So I didn't hate that move.
Speaker 2: I was like very into it. Another thing I like
Speaker 2: is there's a club called SPA Scott Peterson's Appeal, and
Speaker 2: it's a group of like his family members and just
Speaker 2: like different women who believe that he is innocent, and
Speaker 2: they like work on the case. But it is all women,
Speaker 2: And I wonder if that's like the classic to Bundy,
Speaker 2: you know, love of it all eye whatever. And they
Speaker 2: miss Conner like they miss like they loved them too,
Speaker 2: So they like where they found Connor's body. They like
Speaker 2: always go put flowers down and like they miss you know,
Speaker 2: they're not just like fully like Scott's the victim here.
Speaker 2: They're pretty upset as well. That's not something I love, yea.
Speaker 2: So also there was rumors that the defense wanted to
Speaker 2: like spin about satanic sacrifices and cults and like, you know,
Speaker 2: I love a Satanic moment, satanic.
Speaker 1: Satanic panic if you're having a hard time making your
Speaker 1: defense work, yeah, And that's what Nancy Gray said.
Speaker 4: She was just like, okay, if like all of.
Speaker 2: These ludicrous ideas wouldn't be necessary if he was actually innocent,
Speaker 2: Like you guys are grasping at straws. And one of
Speaker 2: the defense investigators was like, yeah, but anything I looked
Speaker 2: into was written in the police report. I mean the
Speaker 2: police did investigate the satanic cults. Like that wasn't just
Speaker 2: you know what I but Okay, so now there's this
Speaker 2: is what I'm interested in, and I can't find.
Speaker 4: A lot of information.
Speaker 2: So that's why, Like I don't know if it's a
Speaker 2: lie or not, but from nineteen ninety nine to two
Speaker 2: thousand and two, seven pregnant women disappeared in the area,
Speaker 2: So like, I don't know if we need a dexter
Speaker 2: new blood, like people need to show up and find
Speaker 2: like maybe there is just a serial killer. Like six
Speaker 2: months prior, there were different pregnant women found dismembered in
Speaker 2: the bay, and Evelyn Hernandez was one of them. And
Speaker 2: she's the only one I can get any information about.
Speaker 2: And obviously it was really fuck up because she's Latino
Speaker 2: and got no attention.
Speaker 4: And then Lacey got all of this attention.
Speaker 2: But her body was in parts in the bay, in
Speaker 2: the exact same bay.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Evelyn Hernandez, she went missing in two thousand and
Speaker 2: two in May, a week before her due date. And
Speaker 2: that's same with Lacey. It was like a week or
Speaker 2: two before the do date. So I just think it's
Speaker 2: maybe it's coincidence, and maybe Evelyn's husband, like, well, Evelyn
Speaker 2: had a boyfriend who was married and had a full
Speaker 2: family and didn't want her to have a baby, so
Speaker 2: like it could have been this husband, but his alibi
Speaker 2: was cleared. And it's like, Okay, you're not even going
Speaker 2: to try to connect this other pregnant, dismembered woman in
Speaker 2: the bay that was snatched weeks before her due date. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just don't really understand that. And again, maybe it's
Speaker 2: because she wasn't white.
Speaker 1: And also where are the other five women? Where's the
Speaker 1: information on the other five women?
Speaker 2: I can't That's why I don't know if this is
Speaker 2: true or this documentary is just trying to like free
Speaker 2: Scott Peterson. But like I was, I was searching. I
Speaker 2: didn't search that long, Like I searched for like a
Speaker 2: half hour, and like I just couldn't really find anything
Speaker 2: outside of Evelyn Hernandez.
Speaker 4: Huh. So if anyone has inform and I looked up
Speaker 4: like Bay area, not.
Speaker 1: Just oh maybe because these women just went missing, their
Speaker 1: bodies were never found, right maybe, So so if you
Speaker 1: if people think that maybe they ran away or whatever,
Speaker 1: they don't always report on it the same way as
Speaker 1: like a body I don't.
Speaker 2: Know, and then people and then her wallet washed up
Speaker 2: as well because everyone was like, oh, she just went
Speaker 2: back to El Salvador and then her wallet washed up.
Speaker 2: But also the sources I found about Evelyn Hernandez are
Speaker 2: not credited. There's one CNN article, but the rest are all.
Speaker 1: Like weird weird blogs. Yeah, yeah, like it's not real.
Speaker 1: But it's just like so many articles.
Speaker 2: I mean, and we talk about a tale of two
Speaker 2: killings is like this big thing where it's like, why
Speaker 2: was this pregnant dismembered?
Speaker 4: No one cared about her, and it's one more tale
Speaker 4: of two victims.
Speaker 2: Oh and then one of the uh, there's a bailbonds
Speaker 2: guy for some reason in this documentary and they're talking
Speaker 2: to him about Satan and everything, and he just goes, whatever,
Speaker 2: we're a meth town. When you're on myth, of course
Speaker 2: you're gonna see Satan, like you think Satan's real when
Speaker 2: you're on meth.
Speaker 4: And I just loved the way he said it. Whatever.
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, no matter what the
Speaker 2: truth is, it is a tragedy. And what everyone can
Speaker 2: agree on is this is like really horrific and very
Speaker 2: very sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Liza, thank you for doing truly so much research
Speaker 1: on this. I knew maybe ten percent of what you
Speaker 1: talked about, So this was very informative for me.
Speaker 2: And well, yeah, because I think we were all so
Speaker 2: focused on the story and the vibe of everything that
Speaker 2: like the facts didn't matter.
Speaker 4: It was like, of course he did it, fuck him? Yeah, Well,
Speaker 4: sometimes it's Oukham's razor.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: I don't know what that means.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like the most obvious thing is that
Speaker 1: is the truth, Like, oh, for sure.
Speaker 4: For sure. But they should have brought in doctor Michael Badden. Yeah,
Speaker 4: why is every case not bringing him in? He should be.
Speaker 1: We have to work him until he dies. We're not
Speaker 1: gonna have him that much longer. All right, I'm excited
Speaker 1: for our interviews, so stay tuned for that.
Speaker 4: All right, guys.
Speaker 1: I personally was thrilled when we booked this guest. I
Speaker 1: have watched her basically my entire life. She was on
Speaker 1: a show called Life Goes On I watched as a
Speaker 1: young person er and you've heard her voice in.
Speaker 4: An iconic movie called a goofy movie.
Speaker 1: But today we are delighted to talk to her about
Speaker 1: her role as Melinda Granville. Please indulge in our conversation
Speaker 1: with the one and only Kelly Martin iconic episode.
Speaker 4: Oh is it?
Speaker 5: Oh yes, I love hearing that.
Speaker 1: Oh I've seen this one. I'd be surprised if it's
Speaker 1: less than a dozen times. Oh yeah, Well, I have
Speaker 1: to tell you.
Speaker 5: I had to rewatch it because I hadn't seen it
Speaker 5: since it I think it first aired, and I didn't
Speaker 5: remember if I had done it or not. Like, no,
Speaker 5: I don't remember anything about it except that I had
Speaker 5: blonde here. That's all I remember.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you didn't do it, but you didn't not do it.
Speaker 1: I mean you you didn't do it, but like you
Speaker 1: sort of at the end, you know, you saw what happened.
Speaker 2: When you read the script. Do you remember feeling, oh
Speaker 2: a twist? Were you shocked a little? I was.
Speaker 5: I was a little surprised, and I was also surprised
Speaker 5: on my second viewing on just a couple of days ago,
Speaker 5: still that I didn't do it, like really, like I'm
Speaker 5: in like what I thought was confessing. I'm like, I
Speaker 5: was really watching it, and I did not remember that
Speaker 5: it was my mom. I didn't remember until until she
Speaker 5: like recognized it, and I was like, oh, okay, so yeah,
Speaker 5: I just went along for the ride.
Speaker 1: It is a good episode.
Speaker 5: And I have to say this show, I mean, the
Speaker 5: show in general, it holds up in a way that
Speaker 5: other shows from that era don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were ahead of their time on a lot
Speaker 2: of issues.
Speaker 4: And what was going on in the world.
Speaker 1: Ye.
Speaker 2: So sadly it's all still relevant and still happening, but
Speaker 2: it does hold up for us pleasure.
Speaker 5: Even the pa scene, because I I mean, I like,
Speaker 5: actually I watched Life Goes on this show. I did
Speaker 5: like the pilot recently, and it was from the nineties,
Speaker 5: and I was like, oh my gosh, it is slow,
Speaker 5: Like it's slow, like it's a different pace of television.
Speaker 5: But spe you doesn't they really, It's like still the
Speaker 5: same pace. It's still very watchable television, even with our
Speaker 5: twenty twenty two eyes.
Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah, And I think the pace is one of
Speaker 1: the things when people say, like why are people so
Speaker 1: obsessed with the I'm like, the pace is like always
Speaker 1: the same, and like you always kind of know what
Speaker 1: you're gonna get at this mark, usually going to find
Speaker 1: out who the person is. I mean, some episodes mix
Speaker 1: it up, but you know you're usually going to find
Speaker 1: out and then there's a trial, like you know, it's
Speaker 1: the pace is comforting, soothing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I fall asleep to the rape and murder,
Speaker 2: but it is soothing and it's.
Speaker 4: Timing, it's soothing. Yeah.
Speaker 5: No, it's true, and there is some comforting kind of
Speaker 5: knowing what to expect in the format, but predictable, it's not.
Speaker 5: So that's that's the hard part of making good television,
Speaker 5: and they sure do it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of Life goes On, Kara just gave me
Speaker 2: the huge news.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, well, so for our listeners, Life goes
Speaker 1: On a show that Kelly was on in the in
Speaker 1: the early nineties and an amazing show that I watched
Speaker 1: and loved with Chad Lowe, a friend.
Speaker 4: Of the pod. He's been on our podcast. Oh good
Speaker 4: that you guys are.
Speaker 1: Rebooting Life goes On and it just found a home
Speaker 1: at NBC.
Speaker 5: Yes, So, I mean the thing that it's funny, like
Speaker 5: I'm not like so excited because this has been going
Speaker 5: on since twenty nineteen. Oh, Chad and I initially pitched
Speaker 5: the idea of revisiting Life goes On back then. So
Speaker 5: it's just been such a long process, and I am
Speaker 5: the most jaded person because I've been doing this so
Speaker 5: long that when I am on set and I am
Speaker 5: filming the new version of Life goes On.
Speaker 1: I will believe that we are doing it.
Speaker 5: But yeah, so Life goes On has found a home
Speaker 5: at NBC and we're super excited. So it's Warner Brothers
Speaker 5: the original studio and NBC being a new place.
Speaker 1: Not ABC where we were before.
Speaker 5: But it would be like the same kind of family
Speaker 5: drama tackling tough issues. And I think the thing that
Speaker 5: we're so committed to is making sure we satisfy the
Speaker 5: fans so that you know you have beca and quirky.
Speaker 4: And the core will still be there while.
Speaker 5: Still making it a new world that makes sense.
Speaker 4: And Patti Lapone is signed on.
Speaker 5: Patty Lapone is very much committed to doing it. Yes,
Speaker 5: another slum she is. She's like an everything along, Isn't
Speaker 5: she Like? You can't shoot anything in New York without
Speaker 5: including miss Lapon?
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 2: Well, have you seen Chad Lowe's episode of SVU?
Speaker 5: No, I haven't, but I have to tell you. Do
Speaker 5: you guys know that Neil Bear was the one I
Speaker 5: think he brought me, he brought.
Speaker 4: Chad Well, that was our question. We're like, hello er SVU.
Speaker 4: That's a Neil Bear connect.
Speaker 5: That's what it is. I mean, Neil called me and said,
Speaker 5: would you like to do an episode of this? And
Speaker 5: I think it was maybe the first thing I had
Speaker 5: done after Er maybe because I went back to college
Speaker 5: after I got killed on ear so it might have
Speaker 5: been my one of my first jobs back. Oh so yeah,
Speaker 5: that was Neil. And Neil brought Chad in too. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and we've had Neil on twice. Obviously a legend and
Speaker 5: a legend. It brilliant, like so brilliant and fascinating to
Speaker 5: talk to him. I'm endlessly interested in everything he has
Speaker 5: to say.
Speaker 2: You need to recommend you watching Chad Low's. He is
Speaker 2: a he like puts fingers in his mouth. There's blood,
Speaker 2: there's incess, there's murder with pins. I mean it's a
Speaker 2: really twisted episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're both in classics from like the first half
Speaker 1: of the series. Pattie's in a more recent one. But
Speaker 1: you guys are like in classic ups.
Speaker 5: I knew Chad had that in him, by the way,
Speaker 5: He's always one of those guys that you he's got
Speaker 5: some stuff underneath that.
Speaker 1: Cute face doesn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, have you been friends this whole time?
Speaker 4: Since Life Goes On?
Speaker 5: So Patty and I have actually been. Patty is truly
Speaker 5: my second mother, like for real, my second mother and
Speaker 5: I all of my important life events have included Patty
Speaker 5: ever since I met her on Life goes On? Because
Speaker 5: you were how old you were, like you were thirteen
Speaker 5: thirteen when I started Life goes On. So Pattie like
Speaker 5: she was at my college graduation, she sang at my wedding.
Speaker 5: She's just been She's been such an integral part of
Speaker 5: my life. Chad and I definitely drifted apart, but we
Speaker 5: kind of reconnected because I sought.
Speaker 4: Him out.
Speaker 5: Because I wanted to perhaps get Life goes On going again,
Speaker 5: and he was the first one I called, and I
Speaker 5: was like, had lunch with him and we just kind
Speaker 5: of reconnected it and now we've been very close ever since,
Speaker 5: and actually we have a podcast together. Yeah, we saw
Speaker 5: so like we've he's like my work husband all of
Speaker 5: a sudden, Now he's I talked to him every day,
Speaker 5: whereas I hadn't talked to him for many years. So
Speaker 5: it's it's actually amazing to have him back in my life.
Speaker 5: I love him so much.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 1: I love a full reconnect, a full circle moment. So
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about the podcast.
Speaker 5: So the podcast is called The Big Break, and it
Speaker 5: is about that magical moment that changes an actor's career
Speaker 5: and what we try to get into. We have one
Speaker 5: guest on per show, and we try to get into
Speaker 5: that surprising big break moment, not the one that you expect,
Speaker 5: not the you know, she did a vida and that
Speaker 5: was her big break, you know, because because an actor
Speaker 5: wouldn't normally, they wouldn't choose that as their big break.
Speaker 5: It's always like I ran into you know, a director
Speaker 5: I really admired and they finally saw me in a
Speaker 5: different way, or my mom said you got to keep
Speaker 5: going or whatever it is. So and so we talk
Speaker 5: about that moment, and then we also talk about the
Speaker 5: origins of someone's career. So like obviously it's really funny,
Speaker 5: like everyone we've talked to has had such strange origin stories,
Speaker 5: Like everyone has a different way of getting into show business.
Speaker 5: It's usually very serendipity. It's not usually like I planned
Speaker 5: this and this was my life's goal. Like it really
Speaker 5: was like I was spotted by a wedding photographer at
Speaker 5: you know, like whatever it is, it's just always very strange.
Speaker 5: So that's that's what the show's about. And we've done
Speaker 5: ten episodes. I think five have aired. Patty's on next week.
Speaker 2: I also want to know what she sang at your wedding,
Speaker 2: if that's okay?
Speaker 1: Yes, I was like, is this too intrusive? But what
Speaker 1: did she sing at your wedding?
Speaker 5: So she sang two songs during the ceremony, but afterwards
Speaker 5: at the reception. My girl, Patty likes to drink, which
Speaker 5: is part of why I love her so much. She
Speaker 5: drank a fair bit and then she got up to
Speaker 5: sing one song because my father in law requested that
Speaker 5: she sing I dreamed a dream from Le Miz Wow,
Speaker 5: And so she did for him.
Speaker 1: But then she proceeded.
Speaker 5: To sing eight more songs. He did a full concert.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, she sing Don't Cry for Me Argentina,
Speaker 5: she sing meadow Lark. She just did it so much
Speaker 5: so that I was like, is my wedding day.
Speaker 4: We're pulling focus little bit.
Speaker 5: They got married in Montana, and so half the people
Speaker 5: at the wedding had no idea who she was. They
Speaker 5: just you know, like I remember hearing one of the
Speaker 5: guests go, wow, she can she could sing like no idea,
Speaker 5: no idea.
Speaker 1: She could maybe make a career out of it. She tried, Wow,
Speaker 1: that's crazy. Well, your podcast sounds awesome and we would
Speaker 1: probably love it because we asked a lot of our
Speaker 1: guests like similar questions like when did you know that
Speaker 1: you didn't have to like that you that you were
Speaker 1: this was going to work out for you, or like,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of them are like, oh, when
Speaker 1: when I could quit the day job, or when you know,
Speaker 1: like totally Like we had a guy that was like
Speaker 1: discovered in a shopping mall the same thing and then
Speaker 1: had to like pressure a manager to take him on,
Speaker 1: or like you know, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4: So it's it's it's I love to hear those kind.
Speaker 5: Of stories for me.
Speaker 1: Do you want to hear mine?
Speaker 5: Yes, that was the next question, perfect, Well, I anticipated that.
Speaker 5: So my my aunt was a nanny for Michael Landon's children.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 5: So when I was I'm seven years old, I would
Speaker 5: often go visit my aunt at Michael Landon's very fancy
Speaker 5: home because that was a lot of fun and I
Speaker 5: was friends with his daughter Shauna who was I think
Speaker 5: like two years older than me. So Shawna and I
Speaker 5: were playing with our dolls one day and I said
Speaker 5: with her fancy dolls and I said, you know, I
Speaker 5: really I want to be on your dad's show. And
Speaker 5: she said okay, and so like she hooked it up,
Speaker 5: and my aunt kind of figured it out and they
Speaker 5: got me a meeting with Michael Landon at MGM in
Speaker 5: his office, and it was MGM was like the Lions
Speaker 5: out Front, like back in what was it, nineteen eighty two,
Speaker 5: the Lions out Front like it was old MGM. It
Speaker 5: was like MGM from the forties. Really, it hadn't changed.
Speaker 5: And so I had a meeting with him and he
Speaker 5: thought I was cute. So then he, like a couple
Speaker 5: weeks later, sent me a script and offered me a part,
Speaker 5: like a little part on his show that he was producing.
Speaker 5: And I didn't want to do it because it wasn't
Speaker 5: Little House on the Prairie, which was what I wanted
Speaker 5: to be on.
Speaker 1: It was called Father Murphy, but Little House in the
Speaker 1: Prairie wasn't.
Speaker 5: On the air anymore. I didn't understand that. So I
Speaker 5: was like, no, no, I don't want to do this.
Speaker 5: And my mom's like, we should try it. So I
Speaker 5: did that little part and was really good at it,
Speaker 5: and from there I got an agent and kind of
Speaker 5: just started working. And being a child actor is a
Speaker 5: very like at that time, it is a very small world.
Speaker 5: It was all the same kids. So I just started
Speaker 5: working like all the time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, who were your child actor kit pals? Coming up?
Speaker 5: My child actor pals. Jenny Lewis was a school pretty
Speaker 5: much every audition I went on, and she usually got.
Speaker 1: Like every job. And now she opens for Harry Styles.
Speaker 1: So everybody's road takes them to a different place.
Speaker 5: I know. And what's funny is I mean she was
Speaker 5: truly my nemesis, Like I was friends with her, but
Speaker 5: I was so jealous of her because she really got
Speaker 5: every part that like I kind of hated her, like
Speaker 5: I had this kind of competitive like heat for her.
Speaker 5: So that when I saw her not that long ago,
Speaker 5: I guess like maybe five years ago, I hadn't seen
Speaker 5: her in forever and I ran into her at a
Speaker 5: like a workout place, like a workout studio. I went
Speaker 5: up to her and I was like, hi, Jenny, and
Speaker 5: she was super sweet and friendly, and I'm like, I
Speaker 5: love your music so much, and I love that like
Speaker 5: we've gotten through like she's like and she'd been wailed,
Speaker 5: never hated me, right, it was always like from my side,
Speaker 5: So anyway, I'm I love her music. I'm super in
Speaker 5: awe of her, and so who else, uh like Amy Foster,
Speaker 5: Emily Schulman, Soli Moonfry. But then when I became a teenager,
Speaker 5: as all of them, it was Leod DiCaprio and like
Speaker 5: they Maggie Gillen Hall. I was an acting class with
Speaker 5: all of them because it was a tiny little world,
Speaker 5: so I pretty much knew everybody.
Speaker 2: And if your child wanted to do it, are you
Speaker 2: yeah or nay? On that.
Speaker 5: I'm a real on that, just because I feel like
Speaker 5: I got lucky with how I feel like I escaped
Speaker 5: with most of my sanity intact. But I do think
Speaker 5: it's a it's an adult world that I don't think children,
Speaker 5: my children certainly need to be exposed to. You know,
Speaker 5: you just hear and see things that kids aren't supposed
Speaker 5: to see, just because it's like it's an adult work environment.
Speaker 5: Even if a set tries to make it kid friendly,
Speaker 5: it's never truly kid friendly. So I I definitely would
Speaker 5: discourage my children from doing I have a fifteen year
Speaker 5: old and a five year old. My fifteen year old
Speaker 5: is zero interest. She wants to be a doctor, thank god.
Speaker 5: So the five year old is like, she's she's actually
Speaker 5: I call her like Patti Lapone and Kim Jong UN's
Speaker 5: love child. That's like she she would actually be a
Speaker 5: great little actor.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just went just to go back to
Speaker 1: your last story. Think it's so funny that at seven
Speaker 1: you were like networking on playdates. You were like making
Speaker 1: making it happen, And I need to get on your
Speaker 1: dad's show. What can we How can we work this out? Yes?
Speaker 5: I was. I was a much better networker back then
Speaker 5: than I am now, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Oh well, can we get to a little bit of
Speaker 1: more of your time on SVU because obviously your career
Speaker 1: is fascinating. We will get back to it, but we
Speaker 1: want to talk about the SVU episode a little bit
Speaker 1: more so. How was working with Shirley Knight? I mean,
Speaker 1: she's a wonderful, a legend astros. It was.
Speaker 5: It was great working with Shirley Night, though I think
Speaker 5: I just had like two scenes with her. I mean,
Speaker 5: that's the thing about these episodic shows, like you really
Speaker 5: don't have that much time with the guest stars, and
Speaker 5: especially like when you're in a family, like everybody's scenes
Speaker 5: are kind of spread out. So it was great working
Speaker 5: with her. I feel like, I don't know why. I
Speaker 5: feel like I remember one take, I feel like she
Speaker 5: slapped me in one, and then I was surprised when
Speaker 5: I watched it back that she didn't slap me.
Speaker 4: Oh, they may have done a take of that or
Speaker 4: something and then didn't use it.
Speaker 1: I think that might have happened.
Speaker 5: We definitely did like the chewing up the scenery version
Speaker 5: of you know that last scene where she's yelling at
Speaker 5: her mom or she's saying those things to her mom
Speaker 5: and then her fiance is going to the elevator, like
Speaker 5: I know, we did very different levels of that scene
Speaker 5: to see it kind of how big it needed to get.
Speaker 5: I think it got much bigger in some of our takes.
Speaker 5: So what I ended up watching was like definitely muted
Speaker 5: from what I remember, but surely was great. It was
Speaker 5: really nice to work with her. It's kind of crazy
Speaker 5: to work with such a legend.
Speaker 1: It really is.
Speaker 5: I mean, you think about like all the things she's
Speaker 5: done in her career, so it was it's an honor,
Speaker 5: you know, to work with her.
Speaker 4: For sure. Wow, what a shame. I would have loved
Speaker 4: to have seen that slab.
Speaker 5: By the way, that might have just been in my imagination.
Speaker 5: I don't know for sure. I cannot tell you I
Speaker 5: have such if.
Speaker 1: You imagine, surely Knight slapping you across the face, though
Speaker 1: it probably happened, right that happened, maybe a shove or
Speaker 1: something like that.
Speaker 2: Also, we love the wardrobe on this podcast, and that
Speaker 2: we think they do such a great job.
Speaker 4: We love the nighty moment.
Speaker 5: I love the night moment too. By the way, it
Speaker 5: was just a moment. It was the fastest because I
Speaker 5: remember them really wanting this sexy, beautiful nightgown and I'm
Speaker 5: sure they spent a very pretty pinny on it, and
Speaker 5: it was so quick. I wish they had a better
Speaker 5: like more of you know, more shots of me and
Speaker 5: that gorgeous nighty with a robe.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was like, I was like, who wakes
Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night to talk to
Speaker 1: police looking like this? It was very apparently what's her
Speaker 1: Melinda does? Linda does?
Speaker 4: Yeah, what's the key to playing a rich girl?
Speaker 1: Oh goodness?
Speaker 5: You know, I wish I knew I actually I found
Speaker 5: myself when I was watching it back. I was like,
Speaker 5: I felt like I was very one note. I would
Speaker 5: have definitely played that part a little differently now. I
Speaker 5: felt like the first moment you meet Melinda, when she
Speaker 5: comes in with the flowers with her mom, she's already upset,
Speaker 5: which I was like, I was watching it, going, why
Speaker 5: am I already playing? Like what happens later? Like, I
Speaker 5: really felt like I would do that differently. I would
Speaker 5: have come in with a little bit like a little aria,
Speaker 5: a little bit.
Speaker 4: Like oh the police are here, like no big deal.
Speaker 5: I feel like a rich girl would have been a
Speaker 5: little bit more like.
Speaker 1: Everything's fucking go wrong.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I really think that that is how I would
Speaker 5: have played it. Now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know how to.
Speaker 5: Play a rich girl. I've always been I've always been
Speaker 5: the poor girl next door.
Speaker 1: So so this episode, you know, our podcast is like
Speaker 1: we talk about the episode of the show, but then
Speaker 1: we also talk about the true crime was based on.
Speaker 1: We thought that this episode was loosely based on Lacy
Speaker 1: and Scott Peterson just because of the time that it
Speaker 1: came out, like that that case was like dominating the airwaves. Like,
Speaker 1: so I was wondering if you like remember like shooting
Speaker 1: this at that time with like the news happening about
Speaker 1: that or not really.
Speaker 5: You know, I definitely don't remember that. I think that
Speaker 5: all the medical aspects of it I totally credited to
Speaker 5: Neil bhar and how the whole like placent is gonna
Speaker 5: rip out like all that. I was like, that's so Neil.
Speaker 5: And the ticking clock of it all really I thought
Speaker 5: worked very very well in this episode.
Speaker 1: I love that Chris is like, we have nineteen hours left.
Speaker 5: And the other thing I loved about it was that
Speaker 5: Chrismal what's a stabler was like, just gonna deliver a baby?
Speaker 5: Here he goes.
Speaker 4: I was like, I just have my twelve of his own,
Speaker 4: so we thought, yeah.
Speaker 5: He's like, get me a newspaper. That's gonna be the swaddle.
Speaker 5: I'm rolling up my sleeves. This baby's coming. And I
Speaker 5: actually I was watching it going stable or just give
Speaker 5: her a couple minutes. I can hear the ambulance tell
Speaker 5: her not to push, don't push. I was like really
Speaker 5: kind of invested in it, and he's like, baby's coming.
Speaker 1: I'm delivering this baby, not the.
Speaker 4: Pars he gonna be the hero if he waits for
Speaker 4: the ambulance.
Speaker 5: Exactly because I could see the writers and the writers
Speaker 5: room going. But it's such a great moment to have
Speaker 5: him deliver the baby, even though he really should tell her.
Speaker 4: Not to push.
Speaker 1: And then I also like how they're like, tell us,
Speaker 1: who did it? Was it?
Speaker 5: Come on, talk to us, and she's like, you know, no,
Speaker 5: but but great moment. I also thought it was really
Speaker 5: great that Benson hands the baby to what's his face,
Speaker 5: Daniel Daniel Daniel Daniel Gables, Yeah, the guy who plays Daniel.
Speaker 5: So how he how she puts the baby in his
Speaker 5: arms and then it's like, this is your baby. You
Speaker 5: are all she has in the world. So I thought
Speaker 5: that was a really really good moment too.
Speaker 4: Do you think they did end up together?
Speaker 5: Oh no, no, no, no, no, oh no, not at all.
Speaker 5: And that guy Gabe weirdly apparently I went to call
Speaker 5: you with him, but I don't remember it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I wanted to ask you about that too, when
Speaker 1: you were talking about how like, you know, you escaped
Speaker 1: from the you know, pitfalls of child stardom. I feel
Speaker 1: like I can usually tell when somebody steps away and
Speaker 1: goes to college for a few years that they kind
Speaker 1: of have their head on a little bit straight about
Speaker 1: the whole fame and act like celebrity thing. So how
Speaker 1: did that.
Speaker 4: All come about?
Speaker 1: Were you did you always know you wanted to go
Speaker 1: to college? Did you do it a little bit like
Speaker 1: later or was there like a break in your acting?
Speaker 4: Like what was that situation?
Speaker 5: So my college was a real like, my college experience
Speaker 5: was a real journey. I decided when I was in
Speaker 5: ninth grade that I wanted to go to Yale because
Speaker 5: that is where Jody Foster went.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 5: That's all I knew about Yale. I didn't know that
Speaker 5: Yale was a great school. I didn't know anything about
Speaker 5: Yale except that Jody Foster went there.
Speaker 4: So that is.
Speaker 5: And Jody was a child actor like me. Not that
Speaker 5: I was like Jodie Foster, God knows. I mean Jody
Speaker 5: Foster Foster. But she was a child actor. She went
Speaker 5: away to school, she came back, she directs. She's an actor.
Speaker 5: I'm like, that's what I want to do that. So
Speaker 5: really I just patterned my life after her. So I
Speaker 5: worked really hard in school, even though I was on set.
Speaker 5: I went to high school on the set of Life
Speaker 5: Goes On. I never stepped foot in a real high
Speaker 5: school for four years. So I worked very, very hard
Speaker 5: with my tutor, and she knew I wanted to go
Speaker 5: to Yale, and she knew how hard it was to
Speaker 5: get in. I did not, so that was kind of
Speaker 5: my goal. And then I applied kind of right as
Speaker 5: Life goes On was ending, got in to got into Yale,
Speaker 5: and was going to go, but then I got another show,
Speaker 5: so I had to defer. So I deferred Yale for
Speaker 5: a year and a half, which they were not happy with.
Speaker 5: But I ended up going after I did this other
Speaker 5: series and I was there and I was not there,
Speaker 5: like i'd leave sometimes to work, but I left kind
Speaker 5: of for a big chunk of it.
Speaker 1: When I did R.
Speaker 5: I actually left between my junior and senior year to
Speaker 5: do AR and never thought I would go back. But
Speaker 5: then when I died on AR, I was like, I'm
Speaker 5: all done acting. This is awful. I never want to
Speaker 5: be an actor again. I'm going back to school. But
Speaker 5: I had been gone from college for so long that
Speaker 5: I had to reapply and get in again.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, how she did Okay? Great?
Speaker 5: I flat did another application and Ironically, my last year
Speaker 5: there was my best year there. I made straight a's
Speaker 5: because I was really invested in and I really wasn't
Speaker 5: going to be an actor anymore.
Speaker 1: I was going to be an art historian.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well I read that in your Wikipedia that you majored
Speaker 1: and was in art history. And so then what happened
Speaker 1: because I don't know that your art historian ing right now?
Speaker 5: Then I did a pilot that didn't go, but I
Speaker 5: was like, okay, like acting being an art historian's hard,
Speaker 5: Like I would have to Like I realized I would
Speaker 5: have to go to school for like I'd have to
Speaker 5: get my PhD for anyone to take me seriously in
Speaker 5: the world of art history. And that was a long
Speaker 5: long time and acting so much easier for me. So
Speaker 5: I just decided to go back to acting.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's cool that you did something
Speaker 1: a little bit off of your path. You know, Yale
Speaker 1: has a great drama school too, but you did something like,
Speaker 1: you know, totally different.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 5: I've been an actor for so long that I needed
Speaker 5: to do something completely different. And ironically, art history actually
Speaker 5: has a lot for me. It was it's easy to
Speaker 5: enter a painting or a photograph because I think of
Speaker 5: it as like if it's a portrait or like a
Speaker 5: scene with people in it, I definitely picture the scene
Speaker 5: and the character aspect of it. That's kind of how
Speaker 5: I come at it. I'm a very visual person. I'm
Speaker 5: so visual that I actually even when I'm learning my dialogue,
Speaker 5: I've like I have to see it in order to
Speaker 5: learn it. I can't hear it and learn it. So
Speaker 5: like when I'm repeating dialogue in a scene, I actually
Speaker 5: can visualize where my lines are on the page and
Speaker 5: how big they are. So being a visual person, like
Speaker 5: that's just kind of like part of the way my
Speaker 5: brain functions.
Speaker 1: So it kind of makes sense for me.
Speaker 5: And I'm obsessed with history, very obsessed with the Civil
Speaker 5: War right now, very very very into it.
Speaker 1: How do you soak up your new Civil War? Yeah, so.
Speaker 5: I think everybody understands right now. I'm a real big nerd.
Speaker 5: When we went into lockdown in March twenty twenty, I
Speaker 5: just decided to kind of like go back to school
Speaker 5: a little bit. Gale has a bunch of free courses online,
Speaker 5: so I like looked up some of my favorite professors,
Speaker 5: and there's just a bunch of courses, and there was
Speaker 5: I started with the American Revolution twenty four twenty five
Speaker 5: core like classes on the American Revolution that were recorded
Speaker 5: by this amazing professor Joanne Freeman, and then I started
Speaker 5: kind of going through and then I got to the
Speaker 5: Civil War and I'm like.
Speaker 1: Oh, hello, so here I am.
Speaker 5: I took the Civil War class that Yale offered for
Speaker 5: free online. And now I just finished a Frederick Douglas
Speaker 5: class and I'm reading his auto his biography right now.
Speaker 2: So is this for only former Yale students or anyone else?
Speaker 4: Just hit it?
Speaker 5: You can take it if you just go to like
Speaker 5: free Yale courses, Like just google that and there's just
Speaker 5: a list of courses that you can just watch from
Speaker 5: these incredible professors. And so that's kind of how I
Speaker 5: got through this like crazy lockdown COVID thing. Is I
Speaker 5: just pretended. I was like, Okay, well I'm not acting.
Speaker 5: I when I don't act, I go back to school.
Speaker 5: So that's kind of what I did.
Speaker 4: I mean, I hope I can do it.
Speaker 2: Knowing myself, I probably would never, but I love the
Speaker 2: idea of taking.
Speaker 1: A Yale course in my home chat. I want to
Speaker 1: do it. Well, another universe that you're in that.
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with Lifetime Death of a Cheerleader. That was
Speaker 2: a big movie for me. How does it feel being
Speaker 2: in the Lifetime? Oh?
Speaker 5: That was great. I was glad to be in the
Speaker 5: You know, Lifetime didn't make that movie that really. I
Speaker 5: think that was NBC actually, and then Lifetime bought it
Speaker 5: and basically acted.
Speaker 1: Like it was there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how I know about it.
Speaker 5: That's a true crime movie, Death of a Cheerleader. Hilariously,
Speaker 5: Tori and I have reconnected recently. She lives in my
Speaker 5: neighborhood now, which is so funny. But my whole motivation
Speaker 5: for that movie was I realized I was playing a
Speaker 5: real girl who was at the time when we shot it,
Speaker 5: she was locked up, but she I knew if she
Speaker 5: ever got out, I didn't want her coming to look
Speaker 5: for me because I portrayed portrayed her as a crazy bitch.
Speaker 5: So I very was very earnest in my portrayal of
Speaker 5: her and wanted you to really sympathize with her, an emphasize,
Speaker 5: you know, just really like try to figure out why
Speaker 5: she did what she did. You know, that was my
Speaker 5: whole goal was to make her not kill me when
Speaker 5: she came out.
Speaker 4: That's so good.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: And then another big kind of moment. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you've have you felt the resurfacing of the Goofy
Speaker 2: movie and the love of that, and just on the
Speaker 2: internet it seems like it's really having a moment again.
Speaker 1: Blah blah.
Speaker 5: Don't even know what to say to this. It's the
Speaker 5: weirdest thing. I have to tell you. I find it
Speaker 5: incredibly bizarre because I've spent many years not knowing that
Speaker 5: people love a Goofy movie as much as they do.
Speaker 5: Like people send me drawings all the time on Instagram
Speaker 5: of rock Sane and are really really into a Goofy movie.
Speaker 5: And I've been asked to do podcasts and interviews about
Speaker 5: the Goofy movie, and I always say to them, I'm like, truly,
Speaker 5: I have no recollection of doing the Goofy movie. Zero,
Speaker 5: like zero. I think I just went in into some
Speaker 5: recording sessions. It was like, no big deal, and then
Speaker 5: I moved on with my life. So I have nothing
Speaker 5: to say about the Goofy movie. And I am fascinated people.
Speaker 1: Who love it.
Speaker 5: Then, but then I watched it. I hadn't seen it,
Speaker 5: I think since it had come out since I like,
Speaker 5: I think went to the premiere or something when I
Speaker 5: was like fourteen. So I watched it and I was like,
Speaker 5: this is such a good movie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 5: It's unlike anything Disney's ever made. It's really like watching
Speaker 5: like Dawson's Creek.
Speaker 3: I don't know, like.
Speaker 5: It's like a teen drama like it's interested.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and rock Sanza babe. People love Roxanem Babe. What.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I had no idea, so I I find it
Speaker 5: on Instagram and Twitter to be absolutely fascinating how much
Speaker 5: people love a goofy movie.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 1: So besides the Life Goes On reboot, which we will
Speaker 1: obviously be awaiting with Baited Breath, what else do you
Speaker 1: have any other like projects or current things going on
Speaker 1: that you want our listeners to know about or well?
Speaker 5: I definitely so the podcast is ongoing, like those one
Speaker 5: will be coming out. I just actually directed a thing
Speaker 5: that just aired over the Christmas over December, and that's it. Actually,
Speaker 5: that is all I have going on aside why did
Speaker 5: you direct? I directed a movie called Mistletoe in Montana
Speaker 5: for Lifetime, starring Melissa Joanehart as a cattle rancher.
Speaker 1: Another SPU alum and an art collector. Do you know
Speaker 1: about Melissa Joonhart's art collection?
Speaker 5: I do.
Speaker 1: Melissa and I are very close.
Speaker 2: You guys are close, Okay, so maybe I'll get scooped
Speaker 2: from you. I just saw it once on tak Nataro's
Speaker 2: YouTube show, and I was like, wait, so we're going
Speaker 2: to the teenage witch has Dolly's and Picasso's.
Speaker 4: What is happened?
Speaker 5: She's so cool, she does. She has a lot of them. Actually,
Speaker 5: she has quite an art collection.
Speaker 4: I'm ablinsed.
Speaker 5: Melissa's not messing She's not messing around. You should have
Speaker 5: her on by the way. She's delightful. And we actually
Speaker 5: talk about her SPU episode on the podcast when I
Speaker 5: interviewed her. She's on the first episode of our podcast,
Speaker 5: and she talked about how it was so hard for
Speaker 5: her to cry in the app in the scene because
Speaker 5: she thinks she's such an ugly crier and she has
Speaker 5: trouble really connecting with that and she's more of a
Speaker 5: comedic actress whatever, but they really wanted her to cry
Speaker 5: and I and I actually found that to be the same.
Speaker 5: For me, is that in this scene where I'm supposed
Speaker 5: to when I'm being interviewed by Stabler and Benson. Marishka
Speaker 5: really wanted me to cry, and I did not want
Speaker 5: to cry. I decided I wasn't crying. And so when
Speaker 5: I decide I'm not crying because I'm a good crier,
Speaker 5: like I cry, I cried. Patty Lapone taught me to cry.
Speaker 5: I know how to do it. But because Marishka wanted
Speaker 5: me to cry, I think I just like I was like,
Speaker 5: forget it. So she kept trying to do things off
Speaker 5: camera to make me cry and I was just like
Speaker 5: not going to do it. And Melissa kind of felt
Speaker 5: the same way. She's like, they wanted me to cry
Speaker 5: and I wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1: Wow, because we've had a bunch of people, like younger
Speaker 1: actresses usually that have said I wanted to cry and
Speaker 1: I couldn't, and Marishka really helped me cry.
Speaker 5: I think Marishka sees that that sees that as her
Speaker 5: role and wants to deliver that so it's an option
Speaker 5: in the editing room if they haven't, which is very
Speaker 5: good of her. I found her attempts to help me
Speaker 5: cry did not help me. Infect pushed me the other way.
Speaker 2: So what was she doing to you off camera to
Speaker 2: make you cry.
Speaker 5: There's a thing actors do. There's a thing actors do
Speaker 5: off camera to help you cry. Either they cry, which
Speaker 5: maybe sometimes works for some people when they're doing their
Speaker 5: on camera to cry, or she yell like you will
Speaker 5: yell at you and try to startle you. And I
Speaker 5: was like, I know all these tricks.
Speaker 1: God lover.
Speaker 5: Honestly, I'm not saying anything against Marishka. It's totally on
Speaker 5: me because I was like, I've made a choice and
Speaker 5: I'm sticking to it, even though it's your show.
Speaker 1: Marishka, I'm okay with your choice. I think that Melinda
Speaker 1: was probably like I'll find another poor guy to marry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because wasps don't cry out or like in public.
Speaker 5: You know, I agree with that. I feel like she
Speaker 5: was a little bit I feel like she was a
Speaker 5: little bit kind of dead inside. I kind of that's
Speaker 5: what I went for. So, you know, sorry, Marushka.
Speaker 4: Kelly, we love you.
Speaker 1: My gosh, Like I told my husband about the Yale
Speaker 1: classes and we'll see do them.
Speaker 4: She's cool.
Speaker 2: I love people that love their work and I love
Speaker 2: people they work with.
Speaker 4: Yes, I love child actors that ended up normal, Like
Speaker 4: it's fun.
Speaker 2: It's like to college Patti La Pone singing at your wedding.
Speaker 4: And I love then you imagine.
Speaker 2: I just love the people that are like, wow, this
Speaker 2: kid's got it. Yeah, it's just like Miss Broadway. No,
Speaker 2: that's actually so insulting when after shows people are like,
Speaker 2: don't don't stop, you gotta keep going, and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: why would I stop? You think it's just you that's
Speaker 2: gonna keep me into this. It's like I've been I've
Speaker 2: been twelve years deep just to get to this half
Speaker 2: empty club in the middle of the country.
Speaker 4: What are you talking about?
Speaker 2: So obviously this episode is controversial. I'm taking a weird stance.
Speaker 2: Come at me, don't. Let's have a dialogue. Did I
Speaker 2: just become a youth pastor? So Kara? Did I got read? Well?
Speaker 4: See? Okay, listen, I will tell you something.
Speaker 1: I respect Lisa's feelings and thoughts and conclusions. I will
Speaker 1: say I did come across a book that was I
Speaker 1: think it was like written by someone else, but it's like,
Speaker 1: from the perspective of Scott Peterson's brother that's called Blood
Speaker 1: Brother thirty three Reasons, my brother Scott Peterson is guilty.
Speaker 1: So even his family is like, nah, he did it?
Speaker 4: But it's like, I mean, but.
Speaker 2: Not this podcaster, not this criminal podcaster SVU. Why can't
Speaker 2: we just have criminal podcast moment. We don't even have
Speaker 2: to act. Put us in your fucking show.
Speaker 4: I know, Well, can.
Speaker 2: You believe the surprise? Because we wouldn't tell anyone we
Speaker 2: were in the episode, and then we would everyone would
Speaker 2: go nuts on Thursday and on Tuesday, you know on
Speaker 2: Alice would have to edit hardcore quickly, quick turnaround.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it would be so excited.
Speaker 1: I would buy us also huffing and puffing in a
Speaker 1: workout class.
Speaker 4: In the park.
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, we're doing a workout class in the
Speaker 1: park and we're like fuck this, like.
Speaker 4: We hate it.
Speaker 1: We're slogging through it, and then there's some part where
Speaker 1: it's like run it, like run down these trails, and
Speaker 1: then we find a body that is good, that is good.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 2: I don't think I could top it. I was like,
Speaker 2: can we be at brunch? Are we walking? Argue, it's
Speaker 2: been no one's been in a world, very few workout
Speaker 2: classes actually out in the park, and we could kill that.
Speaker 4: We wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I went to a little outdoor birthday party
Speaker 1: the other day and there was just a full, like
Speaker 1: huge loud or outclass going on outside. I was like,
Speaker 1: I didn't realize you could turn anywhere you wanted into
Speaker 1: a gold gym if you wanted to. But I guess
Speaker 1: you can if you have a loud enough speaker.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 2: I love the person who tweeted being like, can't wait
Speaker 2: to hear Lisa talk about tomorrow's police outfit, and it's like,
Speaker 2: you guys really do know me?
Speaker 4: Well, I did definitely mention him in his outfit. Fucking
Speaker 4: hot piece of ass.
Speaker 2: Anyways, so rude, no wonder he's not coming on the podcast.
Speaker 2: You probably listened to one episode and was like, I
Speaker 2: don't think this is safe for me.
Speaker 4: Not a same space. It is tragic.
Speaker 2: You know, we do have fun on this show, but
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it is a track.
Speaker 4: Oh it's horrible. I can't believe how long ago it was.
Speaker 1: I can't believe that Connor the baby would be like,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty one now, Like that's horrible, but I think, uh,
Speaker 1: I don't know what we learned from this. Basically, it's
Speaker 1: always the husband and.
Speaker 4: Cops fuck up.
Speaker 2: Cops are bad at their jobs, and because of them,
Speaker 2: we have weird things. Yeah, there's like everything is cops
Speaker 2: fucking up.
Speaker 1: But I think this is also a really interesting look
Speaker 1: at what we're obsessed with, Like we're obsessed with pretty
Speaker 1: white pregnant women going missing. Whereas we talked about how
Speaker 1: the was it Wesson the case of the guy with
Speaker 1: all the kids that he killed, I mean that was
Speaker 1: happening at the same time and barely like made a blip.
Speaker 2: I feel like, you know, they're pregnant women had gone missing. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just annoying when people don't acknowledge that racism is real.
Speaker 4: But right not our listeners.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, all right, if you're let's let's move on.
Speaker 1: What would Sister Peg do this week? Our weekly segment
Speaker 1: where we tell you guys about organizations or direct you
Speaker 1: towards books or articles or something that will give you
Speaker 1: more info on this case or what we talked about
Speaker 1: in today's episode. So if you guys are interested in
Speaker 1: more info about Lacy and Scott.
Speaker 4: Some people are very taken with this case. Is a book, a.
Speaker 1: New York Times bestseller called A Deadly Game, The Untold
Speaker 1: Story of the Scott Peterson Investigation. It's written by a
Speaker 1: former judge Catherine Cryer. I love the idea that it's
Speaker 1: written by someone who knows the legal system up and down,
Speaker 1: and it draws from extensive interviews with key witnesses, lead investigators,
Speaker 1: as well as secret evidence files that never made it
Speaker 1: to trial to trace Scott Peterson's bizarre behavior. So if
Speaker 1: you're interested in that, we will have a link to
Speaker 1: it in our show notes and as always, all of
Speaker 1: our what would Sister peg Do segments are on our
Speaker 1: Instagram in the WWSPD highlight.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for that.
Speaker 2: We know that I will not be reading this book
Speaker 2: or any other book, but I but to all of
Speaker 2: you literate motherfuckers, have at it, and next week please
Speaker 2: join us. We will be doing the episode Justice, one
Speaker 2: of my favorites. I've wanted this one for a very
Speaker 2: long time. Season three, episode nineteen.
Speaker 4: A hot one.
Speaker 2: Watch it, keep up with us, never watch it. We're
Speaker 2: so lucky and see you next week.
Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up is an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at tho'ts Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram. At That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Karaklank and at Glittergy's.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Annalise Snelson.
Speaker 4: And to our mixing engineer RYO Baum Anton Henry Kaperski
Speaker 4: for our theme song.
Speaker 1: And to Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you
Speaker 1: to our executive producers Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer,
Speaker 1: and everyone at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Listen, subscribe, and leave us a review on Apple Podcast, Stitcher,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 5: Dun, dun,