WEBVTT - Ghost in the Machine, Part 1: Spooky Week #2

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<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to it could Happen. Here's Spooky Week special presentation.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Garrison Davis and earlier this year, I, along with

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<v Speaker 2>my friend Elane, attended the twenty twenty three organ Ghost

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<v Speaker 2>Conference in Seaside, organ the past few years, I've had

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<v Speaker 2>a growing interest in the occult, both for testing the

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<v Speaker 2>limits of manufacturing my own weird experiences as well as

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<v Speaker 2>looking at it as a vector of political extremism. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>it's useful to not just to look on from the outside,

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<v Speaker 2>but actually hop into other people's reality tunnels to gain

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<v Speaker 2>a more intimate understanding of how they interact with our world.

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<v Speaker 2>This was my primary motivation in attending the Ghost Conference,

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<v Speaker 2>to learn what metaphysical beliefs drive the attendees and how

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<v Speaker 2>said beliefs intersect with politics and our broader culture. My

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<v Speaker 2>experiences at the conference ranged from ghost hunting to being hypnotized,

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<v Speaker 2>to learning of the galactic Federation of Angels and abortion

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<v Speaker 2>hungry demons. So with that in mind, I hope you

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<v Speaker 2>enjoy my report back on the twenty twenty three Oregon

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<v Speaker 2>Ghost Conference. The first challenge we faced was simply getting

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<v Speaker 2>to the town of Seaside. The first day of the conference, Friday,

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<v Speaker 2>March twenty fourth, coincided with a massive snowstorm along Highway

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<v Speaker 2>twenty six from a Portland to Seaside. As we were

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<v Speaker 2>driving on the treacherous mountain roads, a white out completely

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<v Speaker 2>engulfed our view. When we emerged from the snowstorm, it

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<v Speaker 2>was as if we'd gone through a portal, transporting us

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<v Speaker 2>from the mountainous forest to the small coastal town of Seaside, Oregon,

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<v Speaker 2>into a world of ghosts, spirits, specters, and overpriced convention food. Seaside,

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<v Speaker 2>as the name suggests, is a beachfront town situated in

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<v Speaker 2>northern Oregon. It was founded in the late eighteen hundredths

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<v Speaker 2>after railroad baron Ben Holliday built his summer vacation quote

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<v Speaker 2>unquote Seaside house on the plot of land which is

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<v Speaker 2>now Seaside's golf course. It's always been a sort of

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<v Speaker 2>tourist resort town that people from Portland travel to for

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<v Speaker 2>beachfront entertainment. The conference is put on by a friendly

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<v Speaker 2>high school art teacher and Oregon City commissioner, Rocky Smith.

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<v Speaker 2>Smith has been doing ghost tours in Oregon since the

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<v Speaker 2>mid nineties and has been putting on the Oregon Ghost

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<v Speaker 2>Conference since twenty twelve. Originally, it was held in Smith's

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<v Speaker 2>hometown of Oregon City, an extremely haunted town often cited

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<v Speaker 2>as the end of the Oregon Trail. In twenty sixteen,

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<v Speaker 2>the conference outgrew its Oregon City venue and relocated to Seaside.

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<v Speaker 2>It's now the largest paranormal convention in the Pacific Northwest.

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<v Speaker 2>The conference features ghost tours, classes, guest speakers, vendors, tarra readings, seances,

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<v Speaker 2>ghost hunting, and paranormal investigations. The first big event I

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<v Speaker 2>marked on my schedule was a ghost tour to get

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<v Speaker 2>acquainted with Seaside's most haunted places. The tour began right

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<v Speaker 2>outside the convention center. Conference director Rocky Smith led this

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<v Speaker 2>one himself. He filled us in on some old ghost

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<v Speaker 2>conference lore. The Seaside Convention Center went through some extensive

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<v Speaker 2>renovations right before the pandemic, but the first year the

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<v Speaker 2>conference took place in the convention center, they had a

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<v Speaker 2>class for kids where a group of children explored around

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<v Speaker 2>the old building to find what they thought were the

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<v Speaker 2>most haunted places. There was one hallway on the west

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<v Speaker 2>side of the building where people routinely reported strange experiences

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<v Speaker 2>back in twenty sixteen, a child at the conference claimed

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<v Speaker 2>they saw a ghost down this hallway when exiting the bathroom. First,

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<v Speaker 2>they just saw something out of the corner of their eye,

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<v Speaker 2>and then when they turned to the left, they saw

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<v Speaker 2>a woman in an old dress staring at them. At first,

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<v Speaker 2>they weren't sure if the dress was long or short

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<v Speaker 2>because they were too scared to look down, but then

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<v Speaker 2>they noticed that the woman didn't have any legs and

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<v Speaker 2>was just floating in the air. Because of the new renovations,

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<v Speaker 2>that hallway is no longer accessible. Rocky Smith remarked that

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<v Speaker 2>he didn't know if that was intentional or not, but

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<v Speaker 2>said that a lot of times when they redo buildings,

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<v Speaker 2>they'll change the part of a building that used to

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<v Speaker 2>be kind of scary and uncomfortable, so that hallway is

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<v Speaker 2>now used for storage, although one of the convention staff

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<v Speaker 2>members claimed that a vacuum cleaner now held in the

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<v Speaker 2>hallway is possessed. So there's that. The convention Center was

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<v Speaker 2>originally built in the seventies and doesn't really have a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of notable hit history, but when looking into hauntings

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<v Speaker 2>or reports of ghosts, typically people try to learn the

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<v Speaker 2>history of the building or plot of land in question.

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<v Speaker 2>For Seaside. That's kind of hard because in nineteen twelve,

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<v Speaker 2>four blocks of downtown Seaside burned to the ground, destroying

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<v Speaker 2>most of the town's early history. The first stop on

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<v Speaker 2>the ghost tour after we left the Convention Center was

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<v Speaker 2>one of the reportedly most active sites of ghostly activity

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<v Speaker 2>in Seaside, the Bridge Tender Tavern. It was built in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen fourteen, so just a couple of years after the

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<v Speaker 2>Big Fire. I used to be called the Pastime Bar

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<v Speaker 2>and then suffered its own fire and was later renamed

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<v Speaker 2>the Bridge Tender. The previous owners of the bar claimed

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<v Speaker 2>that in the early twentieth century it was a brothel.

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<v Speaker 2>This is unconfirmed, but it relates to the tavern's most

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<v Speaker 2>frequent ghost, the Madam. Staff and patrons of the Bridge

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<v Speaker 2>Tender regularly addressed the Madam. If customers are being rude,

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<v Speaker 2>It's said that the Madam will spill drinks on them,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, stuff like that. The story I like the

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<v Speaker 2>most about the Madam has to do with the taverns

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<v Speaker 2>old CD jute box. If a specific song played on

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<v Speaker 2>the jukebox, something would go haywire, CDs would shoot out

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<v Speaker 2>of it or other weird things would reportedly happen in

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<v Speaker 2>the bar. Patrons would put the song on repeat just

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<v Speaker 2>to see what would happen. Eventually, the owners took the

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<v Speaker 2>CD with the song in question out of the jukebox

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<v Speaker 2>so that people would just stop playing the song. But

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<v Speaker 2>people are persistent bastards, so now people just play the

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<v Speaker 2>song on their phones or the new digital jukebox in

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<v Speaker 2>the Bridge Tender. Now the theory is is that the

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<v Speaker 2>Madam just really hates this song, so she gets mad

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<v Speaker 2>when it plays and then causes some commotion. The song

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<v Speaker 2>is Dancing Queen by Abba, So if you want to

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<v Speaker 2>go test this yourself, you can travel to the Bridge

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<v Speaker 2>Tender and play Dancing Queen and see what happens. Another

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<v Speaker 2>highlight from the ghost tour was learning about the old

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<v Speaker 2>Seasider Hotel at the end of the promenade. It was

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<v Speaker 2>purportedly haunted by multiple spirits, and it was believed that

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<v Speaker 2>when the hotel was torn down in the eighties, the

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<v Speaker 2>ghosts followed the hotel staff who got new jobs at

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<v Speaker 2>a restaurant in downtown called Girdles. New employees are said

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<v Speaker 2>to have recognized apparitions from the hotel and the restaurant

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<v Speaker 2>gained a haunted coffee pot that would either move on

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<v Speaker 2>its own or even fly across the room, depending on

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<v Speaker 2>who you would ask. I think it's nice that the

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<v Speaker 2>ghosts seem to have a pretty good job relocation program,

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<v Speaker 2>something that most of us do not so good for them.

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<v Speaker 2>As the ghost tour approached the beachfront promenade, that snowstorm

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<v Speaker 2>from the nearby mountains seemed to have caught up with us,

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<v Speaker 2>and a dreary mix of rain and snow began to descend.

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<v Speaker 2>Upon ceased, as if some otherworldly force was trying to

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<v Speaker 2>keep us from further exploring the hauntings of the town.

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<v Speaker 2>So as even my trench coat began soaking through, we

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<v Speaker 2>took refuge back indoors. The very first class my friend

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<v Speaker 2>Elaine and I took at the conference was titled Ghost Detectives. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>despite the silly, stounding name, it was probably the most

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<v Speaker 2>grounded class throughout the entire weekend, certainly the one with

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<v Speaker 2>the least amount of spiritual dogma. The class was focused

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<v Speaker 2>on best practices for conducting paranormal investigations, specifically to ensure

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<v Speaker 2>that the process and finding's mirror the evidentiary standards. Set

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<v Speaker 2>by the justice system for law enforcement investigations. The instructor,

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<v Speaker 2>doctor Nelson, is a supervisor for a crisis hotline with

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<v Speaker 2>degrees in mental health, metaphysics, and fine arts. He described

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<v Speaker 2>his methodology for investigating paranormal activity as quote unquote applied science.

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<v Speaker 2>He was definitely the most meticulous investigator of the whole

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<v Speaker 2>weekend and the least ghost hunter esque in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>advocating for strict investigative procedures and not just assuming that

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<v Speaker 2>every spooky noise was evidence of a ghost. Most of

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<v Speaker 2>his class was spent explaining very basic police investigative procedure,

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<v Speaker 2>proper ways to collect evidence, having a chain of evidence,

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<v Speaker 2>and not simply jumping to conclusions. It's a little foolhardy

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<v Speaker 2>to assume every single spike on an electromagnetic field or

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<v Speaker 2>EMF meter is actually a ghost trying to communicate. The

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<v Speaker 2>other unique thing about his class was the emphasis on

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<v Speaker 2>before pulling out your special ghost detecting tools, perhaps one

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<v Speaker 2>should conduct thorough interviews and collect witness statements. If the

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<v Speaker 2>people reporting the phenomenon, try to figure out what's going

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<v Speaker 2>on in their life, maybe even look into their own

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<v Speaker 2>mental health background. As much as you're able to if

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<v Speaker 2>they've had any sudden losses, past trauma, or history of

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<v Speaker 2>paranormal experiences. Asking thorough questions can give a much fuller

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<v Speaker 2>look at what someone might be going through. Some examples

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<v Speaker 2>of things to ask or look into were if the

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<v Speaker 2>phenomenon is related to a house, who owns the house,

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<v Speaker 2>who lives there, who has experienced the event? What led

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<v Speaker 2>to a paranormal investigator being called? What precipitated the phenomenon?

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<v Speaker 2>When it occurred? How often has it occurred? When was

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<v Speaker 2>it first noticed? Was there just one random strange experience?

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<v Speaker 2>Or is someone going through an event in their life

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<v Speaker 2>that has made an experience suddenly stick out as strange?

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<v Speaker 2>Has the person sought help, and has the phenomenon been

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<v Speaker 2>verified by more than one person. In terms of haunted houses,

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<v Speaker 2>figuring out if there's any issues in the house is

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<v Speaker 2>a great first step, because if there's a carbon monoxide leak,

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<v Speaker 2>that could explain a great many things, or if someone

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<v Speaker 2>claims ghost ectoplasm is leaking through the ceiling and walls,

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<v Speaker 2>perhaps the roof and water pipes should be inspected. Elene

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<v Speaker 2>and I did a little debrief after the conference, and

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<v Speaker 2>they reminded me of another good tip gleaned from the

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<v Speaker 2>ghost detective class.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, my favorite was when he was talking about, like,

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<v Speaker 3>if you're using an EMF detector and one wall just

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<v Speaker 3>keeps setting the EMF detector off, you might actually just

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<v Speaker 3>need to call an electriciity.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, yeah, No, he definitely was one of the more

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<v Speaker 4>reasonable people we spoke with in terms of Yeat knows.

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<v Speaker 4>He seems he seems pretty close to like consensus reality.

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<v Speaker 4>Like he also he also is like a part of

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<v Speaker 4>like the Portland Ghostbusters cosplay group, Like like he's he's

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<v Speaker 4>someone who like makes stuff with his hands. He's very

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<v Speaker 4>like he feels very grounded and like and like consent

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<v Speaker 4>this reality a lot in a lot of aspects, and

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<v Speaker 4>this is like a very fun hobby that combines his

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<v Speaker 4>two favorite things, well two of his favorite things, just

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<v Speaker 4>like Ghostbusters cosplays and also like parnimal investigation stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not actually sure if the instructor for the paranormal

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<v Speaker 2>investigation class really believed in ghosts or if you've just

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<v Speaker 2>had an interest in researching paranormal experiences. I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>I believe in ghosts the same way literally everyone else

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<v Speaker 2>at the conference did, but almost half of Americans do

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<v Speaker 2>believe in ghosts, and around one fifth are unsure if

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<v Speaker 2>their believers or not. The rate of belief in ghosts

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<v Speaker 2>is about the same as belief in demons. But the

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<v Speaker 2>interesting thing about that is although Americans belief in organized

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<v Speaker 2>religion has been decreasing, especially Christianity, belief in ghosts has

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<v Speaker 2>been and still is on the rise. In fact, it's

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<v Speaker 2>gone up by nearly four hundred percent since the nineteen seventies.

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<v Speaker 2>These last three years, for really the first time ever,

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<v Speaker 2>Gallup polls show that less than fifty percent of Americans

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<v Speaker 2>say they belong to a religious congregation. Alan Downe is

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<v Speaker 2>a computer scientist and professor at the Olin College of

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<v Speaker 2>Engineering in Massachusetts. His research suggests that the Internet is

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<v Speaker 2>a major cause, not just a correlating factor, in the

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<v Speaker 2>decrease of religious affiliation, and with the rise of the

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<v Speaker 2>Internet and reality TV, ghost hunting has become a relatively

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<v Speaker 2>popular niche hobby. But as religious belief has declined, belief

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<v Speaker 2>in the afterlife has remained the same about seventy percent

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<v Speaker 2>according to the General Social Survey. Gallup's polling suggests that

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<v Speaker 2>currently about three and four Americans have some sort of

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<v Speaker 2>paranormal belief Thomas Moen, a sociologist who's been conducting a

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<v Speaker 2>study on religion and paranormal belief at Bowling Green State University,

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<v Speaker 2>said that he's finding that quote atheists tend to report

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<v Speaker 2>higher belief in the paranormal than religious folk unquote. As

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<v Speaker 2>to why so many Americans believe in ghosts, Mohen says, quote,

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<v Speaker 2>people are looking to other things or non traditional things

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<v Speaker 2>to answer life big questions that don't necessarily include religion unquote.

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<v Speaker 2>Throughout the conference, the word ghost, spirit, and entity were

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<v Speaker 2>often used interchangeably. Each of those words kind of act

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<v Speaker 2>as an umbrella term for a broad swath of ontological concepts.

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<v Speaker 2>Ontology is the branch of metaphysics that relates to the

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<v Speaker 2>nature of being. Depending who you ask, a ghost or

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<v Speaker 2>a spirit can be anything from a wayward soul of

0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:45.280
<v Speaker 2>a deceased human, some otherworldly energy, an evil presence, or

0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:49.960
<v Speaker 2>even some sort of temporal loop. Historically, these terms have

0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.720
<v Speaker 2>never been very clear either, they've evolved with the times,

0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.240
<v Speaker 2>so Elene and I prepared a brief history of ghosts

0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.200
<v Speaker 2>to help give context for the rest of this episode

0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:06.360
<v Speaker 2>and the next. The idea of contacting spirits or interacting

0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:11.480
<v Speaker 2>with some sort of spirit world obviously isn't new. Worldwide,

0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:15.280
<v Speaker 2>people have traditions of interacting with ancestors that deceased and

0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.800
<v Speaker 2>a variety of non material beings. Ancestor veneration in China

0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.960
<v Speaker 2>goes back at least six thousand years, while the word shaman,

0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:25.320
<v Speaker 2>relating to someone who works with spirits and in the

0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:29.040
<v Speaker 2>spirit realm for healing and divination, comes from the Tungusic

0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.120
<v Speaker 2>language of Siberia and has practices that are at least

0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:36.520
<v Speaker 2>too millennia old. The term necromancy stems from a Greek

0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:40.720
<v Speaker 2>word meaning divination of the dead. In the Odyssey, Homer

0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:45.640
<v Speaker 2>writes of Odysseus learning necromantic rituals to summon the shade

0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:51.920
<v Speaker 2>or underworld ghost of Tyresius. While clerical necromantic traditions through

0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.120
<v Speaker 2>the medieval period made a clear distinction between the souls

0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:59.160
<v Speaker 2>of dead humans from other random spirits, that separation was

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.440
<v Speaker 2>not as ubiqui among folk beliefs of people who claimed

0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.280
<v Speaker 2>to interact with the spirit world. Emma Wilby describes in

0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 2>her book Cunning Folk and Familiar Spirits. How into the

0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:14.120
<v Speaker 2>early modern period, many cunning folk basically low level magicians

0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:18.640
<v Speaker 2>and conjurors had ghosts, fairies, and animal spirit companions, all

0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:23.320
<v Speaker 2>of which seemed to interact very similarly. The European concept

0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.720
<v Speaker 2>of ghosts being linked to evil or demonic forces is

0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.800
<v Speaker 2>a relatively new idea. It came to be as a

0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:34.280
<v Speaker 2>byproduct of the Reformation and rejection of the Catholic Church.

0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:39.280
<v Speaker 2>The Catholic doctrine of purgatory and limbo was rejected by

0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:44.360
<v Speaker 2>the new Protestants, which caused some cosmological problems when it

0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:49.240
<v Speaker 2>came to people's own experiences with ghosts and spirits. Catholics

0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:53.240
<v Speaker 2>held that ghosts were basically spirits of dead humans on

0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:58.600
<v Speaker 2>vacation from purgatory, But with Protestants rejecting purgatory for its

0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:02.440
<v Speaker 2>lack of biblical basis, they defined some other way to

0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:08.040
<v Speaker 2>explain the apparently fairly common phenomenon of ghostly encounters. A

0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:13.520
<v Speaker 2>Swiss theologian named Ludwig Lavater attempted to solve this cosmological

0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:19.480
<v Speaker 2>problem in his fifteen sixty nine book Despectus. I just

0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:21.800
<v Speaker 2>picked up my copy a few weeks ago and had

0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:24.119
<v Speaker 2>been going through it, and it's a lot of fun.

0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.720
<v Speaker 2>The full English title was quote of ghosts and spirits

0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:32.680
<v Speaker 2>walking by night and of strange noises, cracks, and sundry

0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.120
<v Speaker 2>fore warnings which commonly happened before the death of men,

0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:42.000
<v Speaker 2>great slaughters, and the alteration of kingdoms. Pretty cool stuff.

0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:46.719
<v Speaker 2>Two of my favorite consecutive chapter titles are quote what

0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:50.880
<v Speaker 2>hath followed this doctrine of the Papists concerning the appearing

0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.760
<v Speaker 2>of men's souls, followed by testimonies out of the Word

0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.200
<v Speaker 2>of God, that neither the souls of the faithful nor

0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.960
<v Speaker 2>infidels do walketh upon the earth after they are once

0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.520
<v Speaker 2>parted from their bodies. So that kind of gives you

0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:08.160
<v Speaker 2>a look at the writing style of this entire book.

0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Despecters became massively influential. It was widely translated. Shakespeare was

0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:17.679
<v Speaker 2>reading this as he was writing Hamlet. More importantly, the

0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:21.120
<v Speaker 2>text took off across many Protestant circles and became the

0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.359
<v Speaker 2>backbone of the cultural conception of ghosts in the soon

0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:28.959
<v Speaker 2>to be United States through such Protestant sects. Instead of

0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:33.000
<v Speaker 2>ghosts being wayward specters of dead humans who escaped from purgatory,

0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:39.040
<v Speaker 2>Lavater proposed a great many explanations for spectral experiences, including

0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:44.960
<v Speaker 2>many non mystical causes. He lists illness, insomnia, psychoactive substances,

0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:49.960
<v Speaker 2>sleep paralysis, and grief as being common causes of ghostly hallucinations,

0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:54.960
<v Speaker 2>an opinion now shared by many psychologists and doctors. Definitely,

0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.119
<v Speaker 2>the closest thing I've ever seen to a ghost was

0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:02.200
<v Speaker 2>during a sleep paralysis episode. Lavator writes, quote, Melancholic persons

0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.280
<v Speaker 2>and mad men imagine things which in very deed are

0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:10.040
<v Speaker 2>not fearful. Men imagine that they see and hear strange things.

0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.280
<v Speaker 2>Men which are dull of seeing and hearing imagine many

0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:17.560
<v Speaker 2>things which in very deed are not so. Unquote. He

0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:21.920
<v Speaker 2>also cites pranksters as another common cause of perceived spectral activity,

0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.840
<v Speaker 2>but most interestingly, in an attempt to bash the Catholics,

0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 2>the Protestant Lavater also lists low level clergy trained in

0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.600
<v Speaker 2>exorcistic magic to summon demonic spirits in an achromatic fashion

0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:42.000
<v Speaker 2>as possibly producing some supernatural phenomenon interpreted as ghosts. Now,

0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:45.560
<v Speaker 2>Lavater does believe in spirits, but his thesis is that

0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:50.080
<v Speaker 2>genuine ghosts spirits bumps in the night, those strange cracks

0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.840
<v Speaker 2>and noises which we now might refer to as politgeists

0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:58.800
<v Speaker 2>are almost always demons that are torturing people. He wrote

0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:02.240
<v Speaker 2>that devils can quote appear in different shapes, not only

0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:04.960
<v Speaker 2>of those which are alive, but also of dead men

0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:07.399
<v Speaker 2>as well as a peer in the likeness of a

0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:11.320
<v Speaker 2>black dog, a horse, an owl, and also are able

0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:16.119
<v Speaker 2>to bring incredible things to pass unquote. Levater did admit

0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.520
<v Speaker 2>that in the rarest of cases, God may send angels

0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:21.720
<v Speaker 2>or the spirit of a dead person to Earth for

0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:26.320
<v Speaker 2>a very specific task, but due to demons a nature trickery,

0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.360
<v Speaker 2>there's really no way to trust that a ghostly presence

0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:32.600
<v Speaker 2>may be from God. So he recommends that one should

0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:37.080
<v Speaker 2>always assume that a specter is demonic. God may even

0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:40.320
<v Speaker 2>allow demonic spirits to appear as a form of punishment

0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:45.200
<v Speaker 2>and a sign that one should repent for wrongdoing. Lavater's

0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:48.600
<v Speaker 2>theologic work on ghosts were part of a larger Protestant

0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:53.880
<v Speaker 2>Christian campaign to literally demonize all spirits. Right, the only

0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.399
<v Speaker 2>thing you can really talk to is Jesus or God.

0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.320
<v Speaker 2>Anything else is probably just a demon. This is the

0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.000
<v Speaker 2>version of ghosts that I grew up with as a kid,

0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.720
<v Speaker 2>the idea that basically, if a ghost appears, it's probably

0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:10.520
<v Speaker 2>a demon trying to scare or trick you. This concept

0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:15.000
<v Speaker 2>that spirits and spirit contact were predominantly demonic, changed the

0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:18.920
<v Speaker 2>nature of many witch trials, since when cunning folk listed

0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:23.359
<v Speaker 2>their familiar ghosts or fairies, they were basically admitting to

0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:28.040
<v Speaker 2>trafficking with demons. The next evolution in ghost lore came

0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:32.879
<v Speaker 2>in the form of Emmanuel Swedenborg, a Swedish theologian and scientist.

0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.520
<v Speaker 2>In fact, he was one of the first to postulate

0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.760
<v Speaker 2>the existence of the neuron. As Christians in Europe were

0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.880
<v Speaker 2>dealing with this messy assortment of spirits that you really

0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:45.159
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't try and interact with, but if you do, you

0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:48.640
<v Speaker 2>better make sure they're angels, Swedenborg was about to shake

0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:53.119
<v Speaker 2>up this whole entire cosmology. In the seventeen forties, he

0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:58.680
<v Speaker 2>started having quote intense mystical experiences, dreams, and visions unquote,

0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:01.600
<v Speaker 2>which led him to believe he was in contact with

0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:06.400
<v Speaker 2>a spirit world and entities that he described as angels, demons,

0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:12.000
<v Speaker 2>as well as other spirits, including ones from extraterrestrial planets.

0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:15.000
<v Speaker 2>This is like one of the first guys to do

0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:17.920
<v Speaker 2>the spirits I'm talking to are actually aliens, which is

0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:21.440
<v Speaker 2>pretty cool. In seventeen eighty five, he published a book

0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:26.880
<v Speaker 2>titled Heaven and Hell, based on his experiences of the afterlife.

0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:30.760
<v Speaker 2>According to Swedenburg, once humans on Earth pass on to

0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:35.160
<v Speaker 2>the spiritual world, they enter a intermediate realm in between

0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:40.600
<v Speaker 2>heaven and hell and eventually either become beautified into angels

0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:44.720
<v Speaker 2>or twisted into demons, and then respectively pass on into

0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:49.240
<v Speaker 2>either heaven or Hell proper. While his depiction of spirits

0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:53.119
<v Speaker 2>were obviously influenced by his Christian beliefs, the variety and

0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:57.600
<v Speaker 2>breadth of his spirit world was broader than just the undead.

0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:02.760
<v Speaker 2>Swedenburg's writing was one of the early influences on spiritualism.

0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:05.879
<v Speaker 2>Core tenants of which are there being multiple levels of

0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:10.680
<v Speaker 2>the afterlife and that an individual's awareness persists after death

0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:16.320
<v Speaker 2>and may be contacted by the living, which is pretty

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:20.200
<v Speaker 2>similar to what most people now would probably describe as

0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:22.960
<v Speaker 2>ghosts if you were to ask them what a ghost is.

0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:28.720
<v Speaker 2>While Swedenborg actually recommended against attempting to contact spirits, he

0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:32.360
<v Speaker 2>had a lasting influence on American spiritualism for creating an

0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:37.800
<v Speaker 2>explicitly Christian based system where spiritual entities worked as mediators

0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:42.040
<v Speaker 2>between humans and God. Coming out of Upstate New York

0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:44.760
<v Speaker 2>in the decade before the Civil War, spiritualism brought to

0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:48.200
<v Speaker 2>the other aspects of the Radical Quakers with Swedenberg's idea

0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:51.720
<v Speaker 2>of spirit intermediaries who could bring messages to the living.

0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:56.600
<v Speaker 2>The spiritualist movement formally began on March thirty first, eighteen

0:23:56.680 --> 0:24:00.000
<v Speaker 2>forty eight, when the Fox Sisters made their fraudulent clases

0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:04.040
<v Speaker 2>of contacting a spirit who could communicate through knocking noises.

0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:09.800
<v Speaker 2>Starting initially in Quaker communities, mediumship and seances immediately took

0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:12.680
<v Speaker 2>off across the United States, including the White House as

0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:15.919
<v Speaker 2>the Lincolns were graving the loss of their son, showing

0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:19.199
<v Speaker 2>that interest in ghosts and seances were not just a

0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:22.600
<v Speaker 2>parlor trick for commoners, they were also a parlor trick

0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:26.760
<v Speaker 2>for the president. The fact that the rise of spiritualism

0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:31.840
<v Speaker 2>coincided with Civil War deaths and gruesome battlefield photography certainly

0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:35.040
<v Speaker 2>helped fuel the drive to communicate and receive messages from

0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:39.920
<v Speaker 2>the recently deceased. Due to its Quaker roots, the spiritualist

0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:44.159
<v Speaker 2>movement was abolitionist, and its belief in an egalitarian afterlife

0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:47.800
<v Speaker 2>prompted its members to advocate for social change here on earth.

0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:51.760
<v Speaker 2>Even the messages that mediums claimed to relay from the

0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:56.840
<v Speaker 2>dead were often progressive. In eighteen fifty two, the medium

0:24:56.960 --> 0:25:02.000
<v Speaker 2>Isaac Post published a collection of messages supposedly channeled from

0:25:02.080 --> 0:25:06.600
<v Speaker 2>such people as Voltaire, Thomas Jefferson, and other famous figures

0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:11.359
<v Speaker 2>who urged the living to push for radical social change.

0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:14.800
<v Speaker 2>The book, entitled Voices from the Spirit World, included a

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:18.959
<v Speaker 2>passage claiming that the ghost of George Washington became an

0:25:19.040 --> 0:25:22.840
<v Speaker 2>abolitionist after death. And I don't know the idea that

0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:28.320
<v Speaker 2>the ghost of Jefferson and Washington suddenly became abolitionists after death.

0:25:29.119 --> 0:25:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Although I understand its utility at the time for trying

0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:36.000
<v Speaker 2>to push people towards becoming an abolitionist, it does kind

0:25:36.000 --> 0:25:38.919
<v Speaker 2>of read as a little bit gross, considering how that

0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:42.720
<v Speaker 2>was very much not their opinions when they were actually

0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:47.840
<v Speaker 2>living humans. New to the spiritualist development of ghosts was

0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:52.480
<v Speaker 2>not just the idea of regular spiritual contact, but evidence

0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:55.639
<v Speaker 2>that the spirit world could be shown to the physical

0:25:55.840 --> 0:26:01.639
<v Speaker 2>scientific world. Basically, the precursor to modern ghosts emerged between

0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:05.520
<v Speaker 2>the Civil War and World War One. In London. Multiple

0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:09.680
<v Speaker 2>ghost clubs and psychic or paranormal research groups were founded

0:26:09.800 --> 0:26:13.120
<v Speaker 2>in the mid to late eighteen hundreds aimed at scientifically

0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:19.600
<v Speaker 2>investigating ghosts, hauntings, and the claims of spiritualists. Similar groups

0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:23.240
<v Speaker 2>for investigation opened up in the United States, and around

0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:25.280
<v Speaker 2>this time is also when we start to see the

0:26:25.400 --> 0:26:30.520
<v Speaker 2>use of technology to assist in capturing alleged evidence of ghosts.

0:26:31.280 --> 0:26:35.760
<v Speaker 2>In eighteen sixty one, amateur photographer William Mumler was developing

0:26:35.840 --> 0:26:39.560
<v Speaker 2>a self portrait when a shattery apparition of a young

0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:44.119
<v Speaker 2>girl appeared on his developing plate. Mummler knew this to

0:26:44.160 --> 0:26:49.119
<v Speaker 2>be a simple mistake of reusing an improperly scrubbed photography plate,

0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:53.400
<v Speaker 2>what we now would call a double exposure, But upon

0:26:53.560 --> 0:26:57.280
<v Speaker 2>showing this photo to a very excited spiritualist friend of his,

0:26:58.000 --> 0:27:01.640
<v Speaker 2>he realized the lucrative opertune tunity that lay before him.

0:27:02.000 --> 0:27:06.160
<v Speaker 2>Thus was born the business of spirit photography. Sir Arthur

0:27:06.240 --> 0:27:09.320
<v Speaker 2>Conan Doyle of Sherlock Holmes's fame was a fan of

0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:13.240
<v Speaker 2>spirit photography. He became a member of London's Society for

0:27:13.280 --> 0:27:17.720
<v Speaker 2>Psychical Research and eventually became a spiritualist himself. The recent

0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:20.880
<v Speaker 2>inventions of the phonograph and telephone were hoped to be

0:27:21.000 --> 0:27:25.680
<v Speaker 2>utilized to create evidence of spirit contact. According to Ghosts

0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:29.440
<v Speaker 2>of Futures, Past Spiritualism and cultural politics of nineteenth century

0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:34.719
<v Speaker 2>America by Molly McGary. Thomas Watson, famed assistant to Alexander

0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:38.560
<v Speaker 2>Graham Bell, experimented with the telephone as an aid to

0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:43.240
<v Speaker 2>spiritual communication. Decades later, Thomas Edison sought to develop a

0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:47.800
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote spirit phone, telling American Magazine in nineteen twenty quote,

0:27:48.040 --> 0:27:51.040
<v Speaker 2>I've been at work for some time building an apparatus

0:27:51.280 --> 0:27:53.679
<v Speaker 2>to see if it is possible for personalities which have

0:27:53.800 --> 0:27:58.040
<v Speaker 2>left this earth to communicate with us, not by a cult, mystifying,

0:27:58.119 --> 0:28:04.280
<v Speaker 2>mysterious or weird means, but by scientific methods. Quote. Edison's

0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:07.440
<v Speaker 2>spirit phone never really turned out, and we have very

0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:12.080
<v Speaker 2>little information about it. It seems Edison thought that elements

0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:15.679
<v Speaker 2>of our personality or memories existed in a form of

0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:20.560
<v Speaker 2>like almost particles that could be measured and amplified by

0:28:20.920 --> 0:28:25.760
<v Speaker 2>vibrational sensing equipment, but not much is recorded of his

0:28:25.840 --> 0:28:29.600
<v Speaker 2>actual attempts to build this spirit phone. By the end

0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:32.520
<v Speaker 2>of the nineteenth century, newspaper is reported on ghosts and

0:28:32.560 --> 0:28:36.439
<v Speaker 2>hauntings along with other regular news. A twenty eighteen New

0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:39.120
<v Speaker 2>York Times article on the paper's own history of reporting

0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:43.080
<v Speaker 2>on ghosts said, quote Paulette D. Kilmer, a cultural historian

0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:47.240
<v Speaker 2>and professor at the University of Toledo scoured the paper's archives.

0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:50.840
<v Speaker 2>Her research turned up nearly three hundred ghost stories in

0:28:50.880 --> 0:28:54.080
<v Speaker 2>the times between the founding of the paper in eighteen

0:28:54.160 --> 0:28:59.160
<v Speaker 2>fifty one and the early twentieth century. Unquote. While news

0:28:59.160 --> 0:29:02.520
<v Speaker 2>coverage of hauntings dropped off during the twentieth century, the

0:29:02.560 --> 0:29:06.840
<v Speaker 2>ways in which people attempted to understand ghosts only got

0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:11.240
<v Speaker 2>more complex. The mediumship of the spiritualists has combined with

0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:15.040
<v Speaker 2>the ever growing field of paranormal research, New Age beliefs,

0:29:15.080 --> 0:29:19.320
<v Speaker 2>and pop culture fascination with poltergeist, spirits and UFOs, along

0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:23.360
<v Speaker 2>with the resurgence of Evangelical Protestantism into an overlap of

0:29:23.520 --> 0:29:27.440
<v Speaker 2>conflicting ghost cosmologies and what it means to contact the

0:29:27.480 --> 0:29:42.240
<v Speaker 2>spirit world. To cap off our first night at the conference,

0:29:42.600 --> 0:29:45.680
<v Speaker 2>we signed up for our very own ghost investigation at

0:29:45.720 --> 0:29:48.840
<v Speaker 2>the Starry Night Inn, a quaint little house just a

0:29:48.920 --> 0:29:52.280
<v Speaker 2>short walk from the convention center. We got to the

0:29:52.280 --> 0:29:56.680
<v Speaker 2>inn right before midnight on Friday evening before we ventured

0:29:56.680 --> 0:29:59.840
<v Speaker 2>out on our hunt for ghosts. We were split into

0:30:00.040 --> 0:30:02.880
<v Speaker 2>two groups of five, with one starting in the inn

0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:07.440
<v Speaker 2>and the other in the outdoor bathhouse. We got acquainted

0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:11.480
<v Speaker 2>with the ghost hunting tools we were going to be using. First,

0:30:11.520 --> 0:30:15.360
<v Speaker 2>we were given a popular EMF meter routinely used for

0:30:15.400 --> 0:30:19.680
<v Speaker 2>ghost detection, called a K two meter. It's supposed to

0:30:19.680 --> 0:30:25.280
<v Speaker 2>measure electromagnetic fields and features colorful light up LEDs. I'm

0:30:25.280 --> 0:30:27.920
<v Speaker 2>going to read a quote from the lead investigator we

0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:31.320
<v Speaker 2>were paired with. Quote. If a K two meter spikes

0:30:31.320 --> 0:30:35.320
<v Speaker 2>without reason, if it's not put next to anything powerfully electrical,

0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:39.920
<v Speaker 2>then we can consider that paranormal. Consider that a spirit.

0:30:40.640 --> 0:30:45.040
<v Speaker 2>When our body dies, we leave behind our energies. Our

0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:51.040
<v Speaker 2>energies is EMF, and this starts to pick it up. Unquote.

0:30:51.200 --> 0:30:55.239
<v Speaker 2>Among the paranormal skeptic community, the K two meter is

0:30:55.440 --> 0:30:59.960
<v Speaker 2>notorious for giving off false positives. With its unshielded sensor

0:31:00.160 --> 0:31:03.440
<v Speaker 2>is able to be set off by cell phones, radio waves,

0:31:03.480 --> 0:31:07.560
<v Speaker 2>and even nearby batteries. The other device we were using

0:31:07.720 --> 0:31:12.560
<v Speaker 2>is something called a rempod. Essentially, it's a small, horrible

0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:18.160
<v Speaker 2>sounding junior theoremy with some LEDs attached. An antenna creates

0:31:18.200 --> 0:31:22.280
<v Speaker 2>an electromagnetic field. If something conductive gets close to the antenna,

0:31:22.520 --> 0:31:25.520
<v Speaker 2>it forms a capacitor between the object and the antenna,

0:31:25.560 --> 0:31:27.920
<v Speaker 2>and the pod will light up and make some noise,

0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:31.880
<v Speaker 2>or if it's electromaenetic field gets disrupted by something like

0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:36.560
<v Speaker 2>say cellular or radio frequencies, it will also make a

0:31:36.600 --> 0:31:39.800
<v Speaker 2>horrible beeping noise and light up. I'm going to read

0:31:39.800 --> 0:31:43.680
<v Speaker 2>another quote from our lead investigator quote when our energies

0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:46.720
<v Speaker 2>are around, the pod will react to any energy field

0:31:46.760 --> 0:31:50.240
<v Speaker 2>that comes close to its antenna. So as we invite

0:31:50.280 --> 0:31:53.480
<v Speaker 2>spirits in, we can tell them how they can interact,

0:31:53.760 --> 0:31:56.800
<v Speaker 2>and we can tell them, hey, if you walk over

0:31:56.920 --> 0:31:59.760
<v Speaker 2>to that light over there and touch it, it'll light

0:31:59.840 --> 0:32:04.320
<v Speaker 2>up unquote. There is something funny to me about telling

0:32:04.320 --> 0:32:08.440
<v Speaker 2>a ghost to walk over somewhere, just a little it's

0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:13.240
<v Speaker 2>just a little amusing. My group of five intrepid investigators

0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:16.240
<v Speaker 2>were sent out to the bathhouse, which we were told

0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:19.680
<v Speaker 2>used to be a carriage house and horse stables that

0:32:19.720 --> 0:32:23.960
<v Speaker 2>got damaged in the nineteen twelve Seaside fire. The lead

0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:27.640
<v Speaker 2>investigator started by informing any possible spirits that we do

0:32:27.720 --> 0:32:31.240
<v Speaker 2>not mean them quote harm or intrusion, and that we

0:32:31.280 --> 0:32:35.480
<v Speaker 2>would just quote like to talk. He then informed any

0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:38.760
<v Speaker 2>ghosts in the vicinity that if they quote unquote walk

0:32:38.880 --> 0:32:41.680
<v Speaker 2>up to any of the devices with LED lights and

0:32:41.880 --> 0:32:47.440
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote touch it, it will light up. Quote, go ahead,

0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:50.600
<v Speaker 2>use your energy and touch all those lights for me.

0:32:51.240 --> 0:32:55.920
<v Speaker 2>That way we know you're here unquote. Potential specters were

0:32:55.920 --> 0:32:59.520
<v Speaker 2>also informed that if they speak into an electronic recording device,

0:33:00.080 --> 0:33:03.040
<v Speaker 2>us corporeal humans could hear their voice when we play

0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:08.120
<v Speaker 2>back the audio. This is called EVP, or electronic voice phenomenon.

0:33:08.560 --> 0:33:12.480
<v Speaker 2>More on that on the next episode. The lead investigator

0:33:12.520 --> 0:33:15.720
<v Speaker 2>then asked any nearby ghosts what their favorite food is,

0:33:16.600 --> 0:33:21.040
<v Speaker 2>which seems like a cruel question to ask a ghost

0:33:21.360 --> 0:33:25.360
<v Speaker 2>because they can't eat anyway. A barrage of questions then

0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:27.840
<v Speaker 2>flooded out, can you tell us your name? What are

0:33:27.840 --> 0:33:32.440
<v Speaker 2>you wearing? Who is the president? Not exactly all things

0:33:32.520 --> 0:33:36.040
<v Speaker 2>I would ask a spectral anomaly if I was given

0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:39.600
<v Speaker 2>the opportunity. But after a few minutes of silence, the

0:33:39.640 --> 0:33:42.920
<v Speaker 2>rempod is started to light up very faintly. The lead

0:33:42.920 --> 0:33:46.800
<v Speaker 2>investigator starts talking to the presumed ghost and suggests that

0:33:46.880 --> 0:33:49.320
<v Speaker 2>they play a game to find out what the ghost's

0:33:49.480 --> 0:33:52.680
<v Speaker 2>name is. This is how it works. Someone recites the

0:33:52.720 --> 0:33:55.600
<v Speaker 2>alphabet and if the rempod lights up on any of

0:33:55.600 --> 0:33:59.240
<v Speaker 2>the letters, that means the letter is in the ghost's name.

0:34:00.120 --> 0:34:02.400
<v Speaker 2>We first got the letter N and then the letters

0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:05.800
<v Speaker 2>O and D. Then I started going through the alphabet

0:34:05.840 --> 0:34:08.040
<v Speaker 2>and it lit up on the letter I. Then it

0:34:08.120 --> 0:34:10.319
<v Speaker 2>let up on the letter I again, and then the

0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:13.960
<v Speaker 2>letter R. At this point, the lead investigator decided that

0:34:14.120 --> 0:34:18.200
<v Speaker 2>the ghost's name was Ronnie. As we were about to

0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:20.799
<v Speaker 2>leave the bathhouse, someone who worked at the end came

0:34:20.840 --> 0:34:23.759
<v Speaker 2>in and told us that there was a stableman with

0:34:23.840 --> 0:34:27.920
<v Speaker 2>the last name Norris who died in the fire. So

0:34:28.040 --> 0:34:31.719
<v Speaker 2>now the ghost's name became Norris. Next we moved to

0:34:31.760 --> 0:34:34.320
<v Speaker 2>the basement. One person in our group was a little

0:34:34.360 --> 0:34:37.760
<v Speaker 2>spooked and elected to stay outside. None of the rempods

0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:40.280
<v Speaker 2>or anything lit up in the basement, but the person

0:34:40.320 --> 0:34:42.680
<v Speaker 2>from the inn, the one who told us about Norris,

0:34:43.239 --> 0:34:46.560
<v Speaker 2>joined us in the basement. When down there, they said

0:34:46.600 --> 0:34:49.520
<v Speaker 2>they saw a ghost that they were familiar with, named Cassandra.

0:34:50.320 --> 0:34:54.080
<v Speaker 2>They then turned to me and said that Cassandra likes me.

0:34:54.800 --> 0:34:57.799
<v Speaker 2>Cassandra was reportedly trying to give me a hug and

0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:01.560
<v Speaker 2>said that she wishes me quote all the well beings

0:35:01.600 --> 0:35:06.960
<v Speaker 2>in the world unquote. Now, Cassandra was also apparently trying

0:35:06.960 --> 0:35:10.919
<v Speaker 2>to tell me about a Grandpa John, which I don't have,

0:35:11.480 --> 0:35:13.879
<v Speaker 2>So if any of you have a Grandpa John who

0:35:13.920 --> 0:35:16.080
<v Speaker 2>needs to tell me something. Just let me know.

0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:22.040
<v Speaker 1>All right, back inside the house part of the inn,

0:35:22.560 --> 0:35:25.719
<v Speaker 1>and we're about to go tour upstairs. We just went

0:35:25.800 --> 0:35:33.279
<v Speaker 1>down into the basement and just got out of there. Yeah.

0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Once back inside the inn, we went into the upstairs bedrooms.

0:35:36.360 --> 0:35:39.560
<v Speaker 2>People set up their EMF detectors, but there was also

0:35:39.600 --> 0:35:42.480
<v Speaker 2>some new equipment. One of the rooms had a security

0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:46.120
<v Speaker 2>camera and a grid projector to record any irregular shadows.

0:35:46.719 --> 0:35:54.080
<v Speaker 2>And I was given a spirit box. A spirit box

0:35:54.160 --> 0:35:57.319
<v Speaker 2>is a handheld radio tuner that sweeps through AM or

0:35:57.440 --> 0:36:00.880
<v Speaker 2>FM frequencies at a high rate. You mostly hear a

0:36:00.920 --> 0:36:05.200
<v Speaker 2>sort of grating, staticky white noise with small bits of

0:36:05.280 --> 0:36:09.200
<v Speaker 2>words or music slipping through from radio stations. I guess

0:36:09.200 --> 0:36:13.040
<v Speaker 2>it's sort of the modern incarnation of the spirit phone.

0:36:13.120 --> 0:36:17.040
<v Speaker 2>The idea is that ghosts can somehow manipulate the radio

0:36:17.120 --> 0:36:21.120
<v Speaker 2>waves to speak complete words or sentences as the box

0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:26.120
<v Speaker 2>is cycling between frequencies. Basically, spirit boxes are supposed to

0:36:26.160 --> 0:36:30.520
<v Speaker 2>act as an electronic radio medium for spirits to communicate.

0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:35.360
<v Speaker 2>The lead investigator thought that the spirit box was telling

0:36:35.400 --> 0:36:39.560
<v Speaker 2>us to leave, but words weren't really clear in my opinion.

0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:42.160
<v Speaker 2>For example, here is a clip in question.

0:36:47.760 --> 0:36:48.160
<v Speaker 1>In the room.

0:36:48.239 --> 0:36:51.160
<v Speaker 2>There was also some flickering lights and high EMF ratings,

0:36:51.440 --> 0:36:55.360
<v Speaker 2>which mostly just got me concerned for this bedroom's electrical wiring.

0:36:56.320 --> 0:36:59.480
<v Speaker 2>The second half of the investigation was pretty uneventful, and

0:36:59.560 --> 0:37:02.120
<v Speaker 2>around two am we called it a night and I

0:37:02.200 --> 0:37:06.239
<v Speaker 2>recorded a little debrief on our way back to the hotel. No,

0:37:06.360 --> 0:37:09.960
<v Speaker 2>I do find it super interesting how people try to

0:37:10.400 --> 0:37:13.279
<v Speaker 2>like the way they interpret electual readings as you would

0:37:13.280 --> 0:37:17.120
<v Speaker 2>a conversation, and they they assert their reality on it,

0:37:17.200 --> 0:37:21.080
<v Speaker 2>being like if this happens, this means you say yes, right,

0:37:21.360 --> 0:37:23.640
<v Speaker 2>so then so then the abs of the thing also

0:37:23.680 --> 0:37:27.080
<v Speaker 2>becomes an answer. It's it's it is a very interesting

0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:31.200
<v Speaker 2>process of people like crafting their own reality as things

0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:31.760
<v Speaker 2>are happening.

0:37:32.400 --> 0:37:34.600
<v Speaker 5>No, it was definitely them crafting their own reality.

0:37:34.640 --> 0:37:40.160
<v Speaker 2>But also I'm like, like, probably some of it's like interesting,

0:37:40.480 --> 0:37:42.520
<v Speaker 2>but there's still a whole bunch of points where you

0:37:42.719 --> 0:37:44.799
<v Speaker 2>like make a decision, be like this is the thing

0:37:44.880 --> 0:37:47.160
<v Speaker 2>that I heard, right, Because like even when they were

0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:49.440
<v Speaker 2>doing the name game thing, a lot of times the

0:37:49.520 --> 0:37:51.200
<v Speaker 2>light would light up and they would like still kind

0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:52.000
<v Speaker 2>of keep moving on.

0:37:52.080 --> 0:37:54.440
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, like there was an f and and I

0:37:54.680 --> 0:38:00.280
<v Speaker 3>that it went off for the.

0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so there's this a whole bunch of very very

0:38:03.560 --> 0:38:07.719
<v Speaker 2>peculiar things that had that like go into crafting what

0:38:07.840 --> 0:38:10.440
<v Speaker 2>the idea of reality is going to be?

0:38:11.440 --> 0:38:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Stop making a thing? Then making a thing, and then

0:38:13.520 --> 0:38:14.480
<v Speaker 1>it starts again.

0:38:14.480 --> 0:38:15.640
<v Speaker 2>You're like, oh, no, you're not supposed to do that,

0:38:15.640 --> 0:38:18.560
<v Speaker 2>and it's like it's a very it's a very very bizarre,

0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:22.200
<v Speaker 2>bizarre process to watch when putting together these two episodes.

0:38:22.280 --> 0:38:25.880
<v Speaker 2>This last October, Elaine and I once again conversed to

0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:30.320
<v Speaker 2>share our thoughts on our first ghost hunting experience. Okay,

0:38:30.440 --> 0:38:34.160
<v Speaker 2>now that it has been over six months since you

0:38:34.200 --> 0:38:38.000
<v Speaker 2>and I were at the organ Ghost Conference, I'm curious

0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:41.560
<v Speaker 2>to see how our debrief now may kind of differ

0:38:41.719 --> 0:38:45.800
<v Speaker 2>or be expanded upon from our debrief literally minutes after

0:38:46.360 --> 0:38:50.840
<v Speaker 2>we left this investigation at the Story night in and

0:38:51.040 --> 0:38:53.680
<v Speaker 2>you know this this day was This day was interesting

0:38:53.760 --> 0:38:57.600
<v Speaker 2>because we had the ghost Detective class like right before

0:38:57.640 --> 0:39:02.000
<v Speaker 2>this investigation. We were able to have these two kind

0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:05.440
<v Speaker 2>of ideas of what a ghost investigation looks like kind

0:39:05.440 --> 0:39:09.680
<v Speaker 2>of play off each other, which I think led to

0:39:09.760 --> 0:39:14.640
<v Speaker 2>a pretty fun holistic experience in terms of the many

0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:17.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of diversity of investigators that were at this event.

0:39:18.320 --> 0:39:20.400
<v Speaker 5>I think just the most notable thing was they didn't

0:39:20.400 --> 0:39:24.400
<v Speaker 5>do a single thing that the forensic ghost Hunting class suggested,

0:39:24.560 --> 0:39:26.920
<v Speaker 5>just like literally, yeah, we could have gone down the

0:39:26.960 --> 0:39:29.680
<v Speaker 5>list of every single thing that the forensic ghost Hunting

0:39:29.719 --> 0:39:33.400
<v Speaker 5>class suggested to do, and not one of those.

0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:35.040
<v Speaker 2>Was done, like completely the opposite.

0:39:35.160 --> 0:39:39.080
<v Speaker 5>Record keeping of what phenomenon occurred did not happen.

0:39:39.239 --> 0:39:41.120
<v Speaker 2>Logging any data yeah.

0:39:41.000 --> 0:39:45.200
<v Speaker 5>Did not happen. Investigation of the structures, yeah, did not happen.

0:39:45.640 --> 0:39:49.680
<v Speaker 5>Doing a history of the structure didn't occur. The only

0:39:49.760 --> 0:39:53.080
<v Speaker 5>interviews we had with someone was the person who said

0:39:53.080 --> 0:39:54.680
<v Speaker 5>they were a medium who lived there.

0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:55.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:39:55.600 --> 0:39:59.200
<v Speaker 5>Even just like questions like how long have you seen

0:39:59.280 --> 0:40:00.880
<v Speaker 5>things here? Didn't occur.

0:40:01.360 --> 0:40:03.520
<v Speaker 2>No, it wasn't very interesting just in terms of how

0:40:03.680 --> 0:40:06.279
<v Speaker 2>like the ghost hunt at the end was literally just

0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:10.640
<v Speaker 2>the exact opposite of all of the sorts of procedures

0:40:10.760 --> 0:40:13.279
<v Speaker 2>that the ghost detective class was trying to lay out,

0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:16.040
<v Speaker 2>which we attended just like literally hours prior.

0:40:16.719 --> 0:40:20.600
<v Speaker 5>Well, I think one thing that you can really see

0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:25.000
<v Speaker 5>between the how to do a ghost Investigation class and

0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:29.200
<v Speaker 5>then the ghost investigation itself is the how to do

0:40:29.239 --> 0:40:34.840
<v Speaker 5>a paranormal investigation class doesn't assume you know what you're investigating,

0:40:35.120 --> 0:40:38.799
<v Speaker 5>and so it really is a lot about doing, you know,

0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:43.480
<v Speaker 5>background talks with people, like talking to sources what phenomena.

0:40:44.280 --> 0:40:48.480
<v Speaker 5>It's not assuming that there was anything paranormal in the

0:40:48.520 --> 0:40:51.200
<v Speaker 5>first place, and it's an investigation of whether or not

0:40:51.280 --> 0:40:55.680
<v Speaker 5>something paranormal has occurred. And when you go to the

0:40:55.719 --> 0:40:58.200
<v Speaker 5>ghost hunt, specifically the ghost hunt that we went to,

0:40:58.840 --> 0:41:03.800
<v Speaker 5>everyone there was a assuming that paranormal things were occurring

0:41:04.440 --> 0:41:05.600
<v Speaker 5>just as a baseline.

0:41:06.239 --> 0:41:11.280
<v Speaker 2>They were interpreting readings from their specialized ghost hunting equipment

0:41:11.680 --> 0:41:16.080
<v Speaker 2>as proof of communication with some kind of paranormal force.

0:41:16.960 --> 0:41:20.560
<v Speaker 5>There's a lot of implicit assumptions made. First off, if

0:41:20.560 --> 0:41:25.680
<v Speaker 5>you start talking to phenomenon, you're assuming that there's phenomenon.

0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:28.680
<v Speaker 5>You're assuming the phenomenon can hear you, You're assuming the

0:41:28.680 --> 0:41:32.880
<v Speaker 5>phenomenon wants to interact with you. And if you say,

0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:36.040
<v Speaker 5>if you can hear me, touch the light, all of

0:41:36.080 --> 0:41:40.960
<v Speaker 5>those are very implicit assumptions. It's not investigating what phenomenon

0:41:41.040 --> 0:41:45.080
<v Speaker 5>there is. You've already framed what you expect the encounter

0:41:45.239 --> 0:41:49.440
<v Speaker 5>to be and how whatever you're encountering will interact with

0:41:49.680 --> 0:41:52.880
<v Speaker 5>a whole mess of like ideas.

0:41:53.280 --> 0:41:56.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, my favorite thing about that from the experience at

0:41:56.280 --> 0:41:59.040
<v Speaker 2>the at the starting night in is like we were

0:41:59.080 --> 0:42:01.720
<v Speaker 2>basically with this like middle aged man who just kept

0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:06.880
<v Speaker 2>yelling at any like prospective ghosts that were around the vicinity,

0:42:07.200 --> 0:42:10.040
<v Speaker 2>And like, why would a ghost want to follow the

0:42:10.080 --> 0:42:12.239
<v Speaker 2>commands of like a middle aged man.

0:42:12.600 --> 0:42:14.480
<v Speaker 5>I mean I didn't want to follow the commands when

0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:16.800
<v Speaker 5>he would say everyone needs to be quiet. I wanted

0:42:16.840 --> 0:42:22.200
<v Speaker 5>to like start yelling or muttering just out of sheer obstinence.

0:42:22.360 --> 0:42:24.799
<v Speaker 5>Because of the way that he was instructing things, I

0:42:24.800 --> 0:42:28.080
<v Speaker 5>can't imagine a spiritual entity, if it was a ghost,

0:42:28.120 --> 0:42:31.040
<v Speaker 5>even the way he's conceiving of it, would somehow not.

0:42:31.440 --> 0:42:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I have this little exchange laid out here where

0:42:35.560 --> 0:42:38.880
<v Speaker 2>he was. He was addressing what I guess he assumed

0:42:39.440 --> 0:42:43.440
<v Speaker 2>was a ghost, saying, quote, make the lights stop, back away,

0:42:43.440 --> 0:42:47.600
<v Speaker 2>back away, good good. Now get closer, thank you, thank you,

0:42:48.280 --> 0:42:51.360
<v Speaker 2>one more time, get closer all right, now make the

0:42:51.440 --> 0:42:51.960
<v Speaker 2>light stop.

0:42:52.920 --> 0:42:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Ah.

0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:55.400
<v Speaker 2>I didn't tell you to get closer, back away, back away,

0:42:55.520 --> 0:42:59.880
<v Speaker 2>back a way good. Okay, now now get closer good good.

0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:02.680
<v Speaker 2>The only thing that was changing throught that back and

0:43:02.719 --> 0:43:07.120
<v Speaker 2>forth was that occasionally a little lightwood kind of go

0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:11.120
<v Speaker 2>on and that was it, right, like, but he's able

0:43:11.160 --> 0:43:13.919
<v Speaker 2>to weave this whole story in between this light going

0:43:13.960 --> 0:43:17.319
<v Speaker 2>on by saying back up and then the light turns off,

0:43:17.719 --> 0:43:19.759
<v Speaker 2>and then saying okay, now come closer. You wait like

0:43:19.880 --> 0:43:22.640
<v Speaker 2>ten fifteen seconds the light turns on. He's able. It's

0:43:22.680 --> 0:43:26.399
<v Speaker 2>it's it's crafting this whole like timeline of this ghost

0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:28.680
<v Speaker 2>like doing this thing when really this is just a

0:43:28.719 --> 0:43:32.440
<v Speaker 2>flickering light like that that, but through the way that

0:43:32.480 --> 0:43:36.520
<v Speaker 2>he has this like uh, this like commanding voice, it's

0:43:36.600 --> 0:43:39.279
<v Speaker 2>making it as if the ghost is like following these

0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:42.440
<v Speaker 2>instructions and then being being like rewarded for following these

0:43:42.440 --> 0:43:45.319
<v Speaker 2>instructions by saying like good, good, good good, or if

0:43:45.400 --> 0:43:48.200
<v Speaker 2>they don't follow instructions, then the ghost is like scolded.

0:43:48.640 --> 0:43:51.080
<v Speaker 2>So it's it's just a lot of a lot of

0:43:51.080 --> 0:43:52.040
<v Speaker 2>interactions like that.

0:43:52.680 --> 0:43:54.840
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I've gone through the same narration when I

0:43:54.880 --> 0:43:57.839
<v Speaker 5>stare at a candle flame like a little bit high like,

0:43:59.080 --> 0:44:02.160
<v Speaker 5>but it doesn't mean that the candle is necessarily responding

0:44:02.200 --> 0:44:02.440
<v Speaker 5>to me.

0:44:03.160 --> 0:44:06.960
<v Speaker 2>Both activity on the rempod and the lack of activity

0:44:07.200 --> 0:44:11.279
<v Speaker 2>are taken as a sign of spirit communication. Questions will

0:44:11.280 --> 0:44:13.920
<v Speaker 2>be framed as if you want us to leave you alone,

0:44:14.000 --> 0:44:17.400
<v Speaker 2>light up, so if nothing happens, that itself is taken

0:44:17.520 --> 0:44:21.360
<v Speaker 2>as an actionable answer. Whoever is leading the quote unquote

0:44:21.360 --> 0:44:26.799
<v Speaker 2>investigation gets to either intentionally or even unintentionally, craft the

0:44:26.920 --> 0:44:30.200
<v Speaker 2>meaning of the experience based on how the questions are framed,

0:44:30.440 --> 0:44:34.120
<v Speaker 2>when questions are asked, and how the group responds based

0:44:34.160 --> 0:44:37.719
<v Speaker 2>on the activity or lack thereof, of the EMF devices.

0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:43.720
<v Speaker 2>The rempods often go off erratically or in seemingly random intervals,

0:44:44.200 --> 0:44:48.040
<v Speaker 2>but when their activity happens after someone just asks twenty questions,

0:44:48.560 --> 0:44:51.200
<v Speaker 2>it's assumes to be related to whatever the most recent

0:44:51.320 --> 0:44:55.880
<v Speaker 2>line of inquiry was. It all operates on correlation versus causation,

0:44:56.120 --> 0:44:59.839
<v Speaker 2>with people mostly jumping on the ladder. No matter when

0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:02.319
<v Speaker 2>pods light up, the results can be turned into a

0:45:02.360 --> 0:45:07.120
<v Speaker 2>meaningful sign if the investigator is talking frequently enough. These

0:45:07.160 --> 0:45:10.560
<v Speaker 2>sorts of ghost hunts are primarily a form of entertainment.

0:45:10.719 --> 0:45:12.560
<v Speaker 2>It's a novel experience you can have with your friends

0:45:12.560 --> 0:45:15.759
<v Speaker 2>and family to have a fun time together over the

0:45:15.800 --> 0:45:19.120
<v Speaker 2>course of a few hours and maybe get a little spooked.

0:45:19.760 --> 0:45:24.279
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't expecting a rigorous scientific investigation at midnight and

0:45:24.400 --> 0:45:28.120
<v Speaker 2>seaside Oregon, nor do I think that's even a useful

0:45:28.160 --> 0:45:31.839
<v Speaker 2>way of getting at the heart of the phenomenon. Rather

0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:36.560
<v Speaker 2>than viewing ghost hunts as objective inquiries into paranormal activity,

0:45:37.160 --> 0:45:39.920
<v Speaker 2>I think for most people they operate more as a

0:45:39.960 --> 0:45:44.640
<v Speaker 2>way of inducing paranormal experiences, the same way occultism seeks

0:45:44.640 --> 0:45:48.160
<v Speaker 2>to induce mystical experiences, and religion strives for a connection

0:45:48.239 --> 0:45:52.280
<v Speaker 2>with God. All of these are practices of constructing meaning

0:45:52.320 --> 0:45:55.839
<v Speaker 2>and finding patterns, and that's not to discount them. They

0:45:55.880 --> 0:45:59.760
<v Speaker 2>only are a problem when they become exploitative and harmful

0:45:59.800 --> 0:46:03.160
<v Speaker 2>to yourself and others, which is what we'll be talking

0:46:03.239 --> 0:46:06.560
<v Speaker 2>about in the next episode. So stay tuned to hear

0:46:06.600 --> 0:46:12.040
<v Speaker 2>about warrior angels tasked with vanquishing demons, how mendel illness

0:46:12.120 --> 0:46:14.320
<v Speaker 2>is a sure sign you're possessed by an evil spirit,

0:46:14.840 --> 0:46:18.200
<v Speaker 2>and how abortions and the Internet are opening up portals

0:46:18.200 --> 0:46:22.160
<v Speaker 2>in our world to demonic forces. See you on the

0:46:22.200 --> 0:46:28.920
<v Speaker 2>other side. It could happen here as a production of

0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:31.879
<v Speaker 2>cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

0:46:31.960 --> 0:46:34.799
<v Speaker 2>visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

0:46:34.800 --> 0:46:37.719
<v Speaker 2>on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or Wherever you listen

0:46:37.800 --> 0:46:40.680
<v Speaker 2>to podcasts, you can find sources for it could happen here.

0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:44.240
<v Speaker 2>Updated monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources.

0:46:44.440 --> 0:46:45.280
<v Speaker 5>Thanks for listening.