1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 2: Welcome to it could Happen. Here's Spooky Week special presentation. 3 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 2: I'm Garrison Davis and earlier this year, I, along with 4 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 2: my friend Elane, attended the twenty twenty three organ Ghost 5 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: Conference in Seaside, organ the past few years, I've had 6 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: a growing interest in the occult, both for testing the 7 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 2: limits of manufacturing my own weird experiences as well as 8 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: looking at it as a vector of political extremism. Sometimes 9 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: it's useful to not just to look on from the outside, 10 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: but actually hop into other people's reality tunnels to gain 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 2: a more intimate understanding of how they interact with our world. 12 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: This was my primary motivation in attending the Ghost Conference, 13 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: to learn what metaphysical beliefs drive the attendees and how 14 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: said beliefs intersect with politics and our broader culture. My 15 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 2: experiences at the conference ranged from ghost hunting to being hypnotized, 16 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 2: to learning of the galactic Federation of Angels and abortion 17 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 2: hungry demons. So with that in mind, I hope you 18 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 2: enjoy my report back on the twenty twenty three Oregon 19 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 2: Ghost Conference. The first challenge we faced was simply getting 20 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 2: to the town of Seaside. The first day of the conference, Friday, 21 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: March twenty fourth, coincided with a massive snowstorm along Highway 22 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 2: twenty six from a Portland to Seaside. As we were 23 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: driving on the treacherous mountain roads, a white out completely 24 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: engulfed our view. When we emerged from the snowstorm, it 25 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: was as if we'd gone through a portal, transporting us 26 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 2: from the mountainous forest to the small coastal town of Seaside, Oregon, 27 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: into a world of ghosts, spirits, specters, and overpriced convention food. Seaside, 28 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 2: as the name suggests, is a beachfront town situated in 29 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: northern Oregon. It was founded in the late eighteen hundredths 30 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 2: after railroad baron Ben Holliday built his summer vacation quote 31 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 2: unquote Seaside house on the plot of land which is 32 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: now Seaside's golf course. It's always been a sort of 33 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 2: tourist resort town that people from Portland travel to for 34 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 2: beachfront entertainment. The conference is put on by a friendly 35 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: high school art teacher and Oregon City commissioner, Rocky Smith. 36 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 2: Smith has been doing ghost tours in Oregon since the 37 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: mid nineties and has been putting on the Oregon Ghost 38 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: Conference since twenty twelve. Originally, it was held in Smith's 39 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 2: hometown of Oregon City, an extremely haunted town often cited 40 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: as the end of the Oregon Trail. In twenty sixteen, 41 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 2: the conference outgrew its Oregon City venue and relocated to Seaside. 42 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 2: It's now the largest paranormal convention in the Pacific Northwest. 43 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 2: The conference features ghost tours, classes, guest speakers, vendors, tarra readings, seances, 44 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 2: ghost hunting, and paranormal investigations. The first big event I 45 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 2: marked on my schedule was a ghost tour to get 46 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: acquainted with Seaside's most haunted places. The tour began right 47 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: outside the convention center. Conference director Rocky Smith led this 48 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 2: one himself. He filled us in on some old ghost 49 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: conference lore. The Seaside Convention Center went through some extensive 50 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 2: renovations right before the pandemic, but the first year the 51 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: conference took place in the convention center, they had a 52 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: class for kids where a group of children explored around 53 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 2: the old building to find what they thought were the 54 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 2: most haunted places. There was one hallway on the west 55 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: side of the building where people routinely reported strange experiences 56 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: back in twenty sixteen, a child at the conference claimed 57 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: they saw a ghost down this hallway when exiting the bathroom. First, 58 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: they just saw something out of the corner of their eye, 59 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: and then when they turned to the left, they saw 60 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 2: a woman in an old dress staring at them. At first, 61 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 2: they weren't sure if the dress was long or short 62 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: because they were too scared to look down, but then 63 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 2: they noticed that the woman didn't have any legs and 64 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: was just floating in the air. Because of the new renovations, 65 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 2: that hallway is no longer accessible. Rocky Smith remarked that 66 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 2: he didn't know if that was intentional or not, but 67 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: said that a lot of times when they redo buildings, 68 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: they'll change the part of a building that used to 69 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 2: be kind of scary and uncomfortable, so that hallway is 70 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 2: now used for storage, although one of the convention staff 71 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 2: members claimed that a vacuum cleaner now held in the 72 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: hallway is possessed. So there's that. The convention Center was 73 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 2: originally built in the seventies and doesn't really have a 74 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 2: lot of notable hit history, but when looking into hauntings 75 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 2: or reports of ghosts, typically people try to learn the 76 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: history of the building or plot of land in question. 77 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 2: For Seaside. That's kind of hard because in nineteen twelve, 78 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 2: four blocks of downtown Seaside burned to the ground, destroying 79 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: most of the town's early history. The first stop on 80 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: the ghost tour after we left the Convention Center was 81 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: one of the reportedly most active sites of ghostly activity 82 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 2: in Seaside, the Bridge Tender Tavern. It was built in 83 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: nineteen fourteen, so just a couple of years after the 84 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 2: Big Fire. I used to be called the Pastime Bar 85 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 2: and then suffered its own fire and was later renamed 86 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: the Bridge Tender. The previous owners of the bar claimed 87 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 2: that in the early twentieth century it was a brothel. 88 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 2: This is unconfirmed, but it relates to the tavern's most 89 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 2: frequent ghost, the Madam. Staff and patrons of the Bridge 90 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 2: Tender regularly addressed the Madam. If customers are being rude, 91 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 2: It's said that the Madam will spill drinks on them, 92 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: you know, stuff like that. The story I like the 93 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 2: most about the Madam has to do with the taverns 94 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: old CD jute box. If a specific song played on 95 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 2: the jukebox, something would go haywire, CDs would shoot out 96 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 2: of it or other weird things would reportedly happen in 97 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: the bar. Patrons would put the song on repeat just 98 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 2: to see what would happen. Eventually, the owners took the 99 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: CD with the song in question out of the jukebox 100 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 2: so that people would just stop playing the song. But 101 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 2: people are persistent bastards, so now people just play the 102 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: song on their phones or the new digital jukebox in 103 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 2: the Bridge Tender. Now the theory is is that the 104 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: Madam just really hates this song, so she gets mad 105 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 2: when it plays and then causes some commotion. The song 106 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: is Dancing Queen by Abba, So if you want to 107 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 2: go test this yourself, you can travel to the Bridge 108 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 2: Tender and play Dancing Queen and see what happens. Another 109 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: highlight from the ghost tour was learning about the old 110 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 2: Seasider Hotel at the end of the promenade. It was 111 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 2: purportedly haunted by multiple spirits, and it was believed that 112 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: when the hotel was torn down in the eighties, the 113 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: ghosts followed the hotel staff who got new jobs at 114 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 2: a restaurant in downtown called Girdles. New employees are said 115 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 2: to have recognized apparitions from the hotel and the restaurant 116 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 2: gained a haunted coffee pot that would either move on 117 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: its own or even fly across the room, depending on 118 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: who you would ask. I think it's nice that the 119 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: ghosts seem to have a pretty good job relocation program, 120 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: something that most of us do not so good for them. 121 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 2: As the ghost tour approached the beachfront promenade, that snowstorm 122 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 2: from the nearby mountains seemed to have caught up with us, 123 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: and a dreary mix of rain and snow began to descend. 124 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 2: Upon ceased, as if some otherworldly force was trying to 125 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,559 Speaker 2: keep us from further exploring the hauntings of the town. 126 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 2: So as even my trench coat began soaking through, we 127 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 2: took refuge back indoors. The very first class my friend 128 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: Elaine and I took at the conference was titled Ghost Detectives. Now, 129 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: despite the silly, stounding name, it was probably the most 130 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 2: grounded class throughout the entire weekend, certainly the one with 131 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 2: the least amount of spiritual dogma. The class was focused 132 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 2: on best practices for conducting paranormal investigations, specifically to ensure 133 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 2: that the process and finding's mirror the evidentiary standards. Set 134 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:50,239 Speaker 2: by the justice system for law enforcement investigations. The instructor, 135 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: doctor Nelson, is a supervisor for a crisis hotline with 136 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: degrees in mental health, metaphysics, and fine arts. He described 137 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 2: his methodology for investigating paranormal activity as quote unquote applied science. 138 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: He was definitely the most meticulous investigator of the whole 139 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 2: weekend and the least ghost hunter esque in terms of 140 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: advocating for strict investigative procedures and not just assuming that 141 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: every spooky noise was evidence of a ghost. Most of 142 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 2: his class was spent explaining very basic police investigative procedure, 143 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 2: proper ways to collect evidence, having a chain of evidence, 144 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: and not simply jumping to conclusions. It's a little foolhardy 145 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 2: to assume every single spike on an electromagnetic field or 146 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 2: EMF meter is actually a ghost trying to communicate. The 147 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: other unique thing about his class was the emphasis on 148 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 2: before pulling out your special ghost detecting tools, perhaps one 149 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,719 Speaker 2: should conduct thorough interviews and collect witness statements. If the 150 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 2: people reporting the phenomenon, try to figure out what's going 151 00:09:58,040 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: on in their life, maybe even look into their own 152 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 2: mental health background. As much as you're able to if 153 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: they've had any sudden losses, past trauma, or history of 154 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: paranormal experiences. Asking thorough questions can give a much fuller 155 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: look at what someone might be going through. Some examples 156 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 2: of things to ask or look into were if the 157 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 2: phenomenon is related to a house, who owns the house, 158 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 2: who lives there, who has experienced the event? What led 159 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 2: to a paranormal investigator being called? What precipitated the phenomenon? 160 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 2: When it occurred? How often has it occurred? When was 161 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: it first noticed? Was there just one random strange experience? 162 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 2: Or is someone going through an event in their life 163 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: that has made an experience suddenly stick out as strange? 164 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 2: Has the person sought help, and has the phenomenon been 165 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 2: verified by more than one person. In terms of haunted houses, 166 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 2: figuring out if there's any issues in the house is 167 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 2: a great first step, because if there's a carbon monoxide leak, 168 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: that could explain a great many things, or if someone 169 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 2: claims ghost ectoplasm is leaking through the ceiling and walls, 170 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 2: perhaps the roof and water pipes should be inspected. Elene 171 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 2: and I did a little debrief after the conference, and 172 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 2: they reminded me of another good tip gleaned from the 173 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 2: ghost detective class. 174 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 3: I mean, my favorite was when he was talking about, like, 175 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 3: if you're using an EMF detector and one wall just 176 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 3: keeps setting the EMF detector off, you might actually just 177 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 3: need to call an electriciity. 178 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, No, he definitely was one of the more 179 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 4: reasonable people we spoke with in terms of Yeat knows. 180 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 4: He seems he seems pretty close to like consensus reality. 181 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 4: Like he also he also is like a part of 182 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 4: like the Portland Ghostbusters cosplay group, Like like he's he's 183 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 4: someone who like makes stuff with his hands. He's very 184 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 4: like he feels very grounded and like and like consent 185 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 4: this reality a lot in a lot of aspects, and 186 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 4: this is like a very fun hobby that combines his 187 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 4: two favorite things, well two of his favorite things, just 188 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 4: like Ghostbusters cosplays and also like parnimal investigation stuff. 189 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 2: I'm not actually sure if the instructor for the paranormal 190 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 2: investigation class really believed in ghosts or if you've just 191 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 2: had an interest in researching paranormal experiences. I don't think 192 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: I believe in ghosts the same way literally everyone else 193 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: at the conference did, but almost half of Americans do 194 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 2: believe in ghosts, and around one fifth are unsure if 195 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: their believers or not. The rate of belief in ghosts 196 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 2: is about the same as belief in demons. But the 197 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 2: interesting thing about that is although Americans belief in organized 198 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 2: religion has been decreasing, especially Christianity, belief in ghosts has 199 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 2: been and still is on the rise. In fact, it's 200 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: gone up by nearly four hundred percent since the nineteen seventies. 201 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 2: These last three years, for really the first time ever, 202 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: Gallup polls show that less than fifty percent of Americans 203 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 2: say they belong to a religious congregation. Alan Downe is 204 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 2: a computer scientist and professor at the Olin College of 205 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 2: Engineering in Massachusetts. His research suggests that the Internet is 206 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 2: a major cause, not just a correlating factor, in the 207 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 2: decrease of religious affiliation, and with the rise of the 208 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 2: Internet and reality TV, ghost hunting has become a relatively 209 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 2: popular niche hobby. But as religious belief has declined, belief 210 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 2: in the afterlife has remained the same about seventy percent 211 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 2: according to the General Social Survey. Gallup's polling suggests that 212 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 2: currently about three and four Americans have some sort of 213 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 2: paranormal belief Thomas Moen, a sociologist who's been conducting a 214 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 2: study on religion and paranormal belief at Bowling Green State University, 215 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: said that he's finding that quote atheists tend to report 216 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 2: higher belief in the paranormal than religious folk unquote. As 217 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 2: to why so many Americans believe in ghosts, Mohen says, quote, 218 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 2: people are looking to other things or non traditional things 219 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 2: to answer life big questions that don't necessarily include religion unquote. 220 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: Throughout the conference, the word ghost, spirit, and entity were 221 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 2: often used interchangeably. Each of those words kind of act 222 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 2: as an umbrella term for a broad swath of ontological concepts. 223 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 2: Ontology is the branch of metaphysics that relates to the 224 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: nature of being. Depending who you ask, a ghost or 225 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 2: a spirit can be anything from a wayward soul of 226 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 2: a deceased human, some otherworldly energy, an evil presence, or 227 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 2: even some sort of temporal loop. Historically, these terms have 228 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 2: never been very clear either, they've evolved with the times, 229 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 2: so Elene and I prepared a brief history of ghosts 230 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 2: to help give context for the rest of this episode 231 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 2: and the next. The idea of contacting spirits or interacting 232 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: with some sort of spirit world obviously isn't new. Worldwide, 233 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 2: people have traditions of interacting with ancestors that deceased and 234 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 2: a variety of non material beings. Ancestor veneration in China 235 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 2: goes back at least six thousand years, while the word shaman, 236 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 2: relating to someone who works with spirits and in the 237 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 2: spirit realm for healing and divination, comes from the Tungusic 238 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 2: language of Siberia and has practices that are at least 239 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: too millennia old. The term necromancy stems from a Greek 240 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 2: word meaning divination of the dead. In the Odyssey, Homer 241 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 2: writes of Odysseus learning necromantic rituals to summon the shade 242 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: or underworld ghost of Tyresius. While clerical necromantic traditions through 243 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 2: the medieval period made a clear distinction between the souls 244 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 2: of dead humans from other random spirits, that separation was 245 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: not as ubiqui among folk beliefs of people who claimed 246 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 2: to interact with the spirit world. Emma Wilby describes in 247 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 2: her book Cunning Folk and Familiar Spirits. How into the 248 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 2: early modern period, many cunning folk basically low level magicians 249 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 2: and conjurors had ghosts, fairies, and animal spirit companions, all 250 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 2: of which seemed to interact very similarly. The European concept 251 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: of ghosts being linked to evil or demonic forces is 252 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 2: a relatively new idea. It came to be as a 253 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: byproduct of the Reformation and rejection of the Catholic Church. 254 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 2: The Catholic doctrine of purgatory and limbo was rejected by 255 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 2: the new Protestants, which caused some cosmological problems when it 256 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 2: came to people's own experiences with ghosts and spirits. Catholics 257 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: held that ghosts were basically spirits of dead humans on 258 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: vacation from purgatory, But with Protestants rejecting purgatory for its 259 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 2: lack of biblical basis, they defined some other way to 260 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 2: explain the apparently fairly common phenomenon of ghostly encounters. A 261 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 2: Swiss theologian named Ludwig Lavater attempted to solve this cosmological 262 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 2: problem in his fifteen sixty nine book Despectus. I just 263 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 2: picked up my copy a few weeks ago and had 264 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 2: been going through it, and it's a lot of fun. 265 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 2: The full English title was quote of ghosts and spirits 266 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 2: walking by night and of strange noises, cracks, and sundry 267 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 2: fore warnings which commonly happened before the death of men, 268 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: great slaughters, and the alteration of kingdoms. Pretty cool stuff. 269 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,719 Speaker 2: Two of my favorite consecutive chapter titles are quote what 270 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 2: hath followed this doctrine of the Papists concerning the appearing 271 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 2: of men's souls, followed by testimonies out of the Word 272 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 2: of God, that neither the souls of the faithful nor 273 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 2: infidels do walketh upon the earth after they are once 274 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 2: parted from their bodies. So that kind of gives you 275 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 2: a look at the writing style of this entire book. 276 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 2: Despecters became massively influential. It was widely translated. Shakespeare was 277 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 2: reading this as he was writing Hamlet. More importantly, the 278 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 2: text took off across many Protestant circles and became the 279 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 2: backbone of the cultural conception of ghosts in the soon 280 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,959 Speaker 2: to be United States through such Protestant sects. Instead of 281 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 2: ghosts being wayward specters of dead humans who escaped from purgatory, 282 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 2: Lavater proposed a great many explanations for spectral experiences, including 283 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 2: many non mystical causes. He lists illness, insomnia, psychoactive substances, 284 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 2: sleep paralysis, and grief as being common causes of ghostly hallucinations, 285 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 2: an opinion now shared by many psychologists and doctors. Definitely, 286 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 2: the closest thing I've ever seen to a ghost was 287 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 2: during a sleep paralysis episode. Lavator writes, quote, Melancholic persons 288 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 2: and mad men imagine things which in very deed are 289 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 2: not fearful. Men imagine that they see and hear strange things. 290 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 2: Men which are dull of seeing and hearing imagine many 291 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 2: things which in very deed are not so. Unquote. He 292 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 2: also cites pranksters as another common cause of perceived spectral activity, 293 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 2: but most interestingly, in an attempt to bash the Catholics, 294 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 2: the Protestant Lavater also lists low level clergy trained in 295 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 2: exorcistic magic to summon demonic spirits in an achromatic fashion 296 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 2: as possibly producing some supernatural phenomenon interpreted as ghosts. Now, 297 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 2: Lavater does believe in spirits, but his thesis is that 298 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: genuine ghosts spirits bumps in the night, those strange cracks 299 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 2: and noises which we now might refer to as politgeists 300 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 2: are almost always demons that are torturing people. He wrote 301 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 2: that devils can quote appear in different shapes, not only 302 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 2: of those which are alive, but also of dead men 303 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 2: as well as a peer in the likeness of a 304 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 2: black dog, a horse, an owl, and also are able 305 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 2: to bring incredible things to pass unquote. Levater did admit 306 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 2: that in the rarest of cases, God may send angels 307 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 2: or the spirit of a dead person to Earth for 308 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 2: a very specific task, but due to demons a nature trickery, 309 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 2: there's really no way to trust that a ghostly presence 310 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: may be from God. So he recommends that one should 311 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 2: always assume that a specter is demonic. God may even 312 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 2: allow demonic spirits to appear as a form of punishment 313 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: and a sign that one should repent for wrongdoing. Lavater's 314 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 2: theologic work on ghosts were part of a larger Protestant 315 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 2: Christian campaign to literally demonize all spirits. Right, the only 316 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 2: thing you can really talk to is Jesus or God. 317 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 2: Anything else is probably just a demon. This is the 318 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 2: version of ghosts that I grew up with as a kid, 319 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 2: the idea that basically, if a ghost appears, it's probably 320 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 2: a demon trying to scare or trick you. This concept 321 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 2: that spirits and spirit contact were predominantly demonic, changed the 322 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 2: nature of many witch trials, since when cunning folk listed 323 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 2: their familiar ghosts or fairies, they were basically admitting to 324 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 2: trafficking with demons. The next evolution in ghost lore came 325 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 2: in the form of Emmanuel Swedenborg, a Swedish theologian and scientist. 326 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 2: In fact, he was one of the first to postulate 327 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 2: the existence of the neuron. As Christians in Europe were 328 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 2: dealing with this messy assortment of spirits that you really 329 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 2: shouldn't try and interact with, but if you do, you 330 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 2: better make sure they're angels, Swedenborg was about to shake 331 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 2: up this whole entire cosmology. In the seventeen forties, he 332 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 2: started having quote intense mystical experiences, dreams, and visions unquote, 333 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: which led him to believe he was in contact with 334 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 2: a spirit world and entities that he described as angels, demons, 335 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 2: as well as other spirits, including ones from extraterrestrial planets. 336 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 2: This is like one of the first guys to do 337 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 2: the spirits I'm talking to are actually aliens, which is 338 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 2: pretty cool. In seventeen eighty five, he published a book 339 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 2: titled Heaven and Hell, based on his experiences of the afterlife. 340 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 2: According to Swedenburg, once humans on Earth pass on to 341 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 2: the spiritual world, they enter a intermediate realm in between 342 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 2: heaven and hell and eventually either become beautified into angels 343 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 2: or twisted into demons, and then respectively pass on into 344 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 2: either heaven or Hell proper. While his depiction of spirits 345 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 2: were obviously influenced by his Christian beliefs, the variety and 346 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 2: breadth of his spirit world was broader than just the undead. 347 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 2: Swedenburg's writing was one of the early influences on spiritualism. 348 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 2: Core tenants of which are there being multiple levels of 349 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 2: the afterlife and that an individual's awareness persists after death 350 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 2: and may be contacted by the living, which is pretty 351 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 2: similar to what most people now would probably describe as 352 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 2: ghosts if you were to ask them what a ghost is. 353 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 2: While Swedenborg actually recommended against attempting to contact spirits, he 354 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 2: had a lasting influence on American spiritualism for creating an 355 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 2: explicitly Christian based system where spiritual entities worked as mediators 356 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 2: between humans and God. Coming out of Upstate New York 357 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 2: in the decade before the Civil War, spiritualism brought to 358 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 2: the other aspects of the Radical Quakers with Swedenberg's idea 359 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 2: of spirit intermediaries who could bring messages to the living. 360 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 2: The spiritualist movement formally began on March thirty first, eighteen 361 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: forty eight, when the Fox Sisters made their fraudulent clases 362 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 2: of contacting a spirit who could communicate through knocking noises. 363 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 2: Starting initially in Quaker communities, mediumship and seances immediately took 364 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 2: off across the United States, including the White House as 365 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 2: the Lincolns were graving the loss of their son, showing 366 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 2: that interest in ghosts and seances were not just a 367 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 2: parlor trick for commoners, they were also a parlor trick 368 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 2: for the president. The fact that the rise of spiritualism 369 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 2: coincided with Civil War deaths and gruesome battlefield photography certainly 370 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 2: helped fuel the drive to communicate and receive messages from 371 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 2: the recently deceased. Due to its Quaker roots, the spiritualist 372 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 2: movement was abolitionist, and its belief in an egalitarian afterlife 373 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 2: prompted its members to advocate for social change here on earth. 374 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 2: Even the messages that mediums claimed to relay from the 375 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 2: dead were often progressive. In eighteen fifty two, the medium 376 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 2: Isaac Post published a collection of messages supposedly channeled from 377 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: such people as Voltaire, Thomas Jefferson, and other famous figures 378 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 2: who urged the living to push for radical social change. 379 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 2: The book, entitled Voices from the Spirit World, included a 380 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,959 Speaker 2: passage claiming that the ghost of George Washington became an 381 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 2: abolitionist after death. And I don't know the idea that 382 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 2: the ghost of Jefferson and Washington suddenly became abolitionists after death. 383 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 2: Although I understand its utility at the time for trying 384 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 2: to push people towards becoming an abolitionist, it does kind 385 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 2: of read as a little bit gross, considering how that 386 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 2: was very much not their opinions when they were actually 387 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 2: living humans. New to the spiritualist development of ghosts was 388 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 2: not just the idea of regular spiritual contact, but evidence 389 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 2: that the spirit world could be shown to the physical 390 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 2: scientific world. Basically, the precursor to modern ghosts emerged between 391 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: the Civil War and World War One. In London. Multiple 392 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 2: ghost clubs and psychic or paranormal research groups were founded 393 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 2: in the mid to late eighteen hundreds aimed at scientifically 394 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 2: investigating ghosts, hauntings, and the claims of spiritualists. Similar groups 395 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 2: for investigation opened up in the United States, and around 396 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 2: this time is also when we start to see the 397 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 2: use of technology to assist in capturing alleged evidence of ghosts. 398 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 2: In eighteen sixty one, amateur photographer William Mumler was developing 399 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 2: a self portrait when a shattery apparition of a young 400 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 2: girl appeared on his developing plate. Mummler knew this to 401 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 2: be a simple mistake of reusing an improperly scrubbed photography plate, 402 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 2: what we now would call a double exposure, But upon 403 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 2: showing this photo to a very excited spiritualist friend of his, 404 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 2: he realized the lucrative opertune tunity that lay before him. 405 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 2: Thus was born the business of spirit photography. Sir Arthur 406 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: Conan Doyle of Sherlock Holmes's fame was a fan of 407 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 2: spirit photography. He became a member of London's Society for 408 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 2: Psychical Research and eventually became a spiritualist himself. The recent 409 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 2: inventions of the phonograph and telephone were hoped to be 410 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 2: utilized to create evidence of spirit contact. According to Ghosts 411 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 2: of Futures, Past Spiritualism and cultural politics of nineteenth century 412 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:34,719 Speaker 2: America by Molly McGary. Thomas Watson, famed assistant to Alexander 413 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 2: Graham Bell, experimented with the telephone as an aid to 414 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 2: spiritual communication. Decades later, Thomas Edison sought to develop a 415 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 2: quote unquote spirit phone, telling American Magazine in nineteen twenty quote, 416 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 2: I've been at work for some time building an apparatus 417 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 2: to see if it is possible for personalities which have 418 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 2: left this earth to communicate with us, not by a cult, mystifying, 419 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 2: mysterious or weird means, but by scientific methods. Quote. Edison's 420 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 2: spirit phone never really turned out, and we have very 421 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 2: little information about it. It seems Edison thought that elements 422 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 2: of our personality or memories existed in a form of 423 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 2: like almost particles that could be measured and amplified by 424 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 2: vibrational sensing equipment, but not much is recorded of his 425 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 2: actual attempts to build this spirit phone. By the end 426 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: of the nineteenth century, newspaper is reported on ghosts and 427 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 2: hauntings along with other regular news. A twenty eighteen New 428 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 2: York Times article on the paper's own history of reporting 429 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 2: on ghosts said, quote Paulette D. Kilmer, a cultural historian 430 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: and professor at the University of Toledo scoured the paper's archives. 431 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 2: Her research turned up nearly three hundred ghost stories in 432 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 2: the times between the founding of the paper in eighteen 433 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 2: fifty one and the early twentieth century. Unquote. While news 434 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 2: coverage of hauntings dropped off during the twentieth century, the 435 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 2: ways in which people attempted to understand ghosts only got 436 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 2: more complex. The mediumship of the spiritualists has combined with 437 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 2: the ever growing field of paranormal research, New Age beliefs, 438 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 2: and pop culture fascination with poltergeist, spirits and UFOs, along 439 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 2: with the resurgence of Evangelical Protestantism into an overlap of 440 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 2: conflicting ghost cosmologies and what it means to contact the 441 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 2: spirit world. To cap off our first night at the conference, 442 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 2: we signed up for our very own ghost investigation at 443 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 2: the Starry Night Inn, a quaint little house just a 444 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 2: short walk from the convention center. We got to the 445 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 2: inn right before midnight on Friday evening before we ventured 446 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 2: out on our hunt for ghosts. We were split into 447 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 2: two groups of five, with one starting in the inn 448 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: and the other in the outdoor bathhouse. We got acquainted 449 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 2: with the ghost hunting tools we were going to be using. First, 450 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 2: we were given a popular EMF meter routinely used for 451 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 2: ghost detection, called a K two meter. It's supposed to 452 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 2: measure electromagnetic fields and features colorful light up LEDs. I'm 453 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 2: going to read a quote from the lead investigator we 454 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 2: were paired with. Quote. If a K two meter spikes 455 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 2: without reason, if it's not put next to anything powerfully electrical, 456 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 2: then we can consider that paranormal. Consider that a spirit. 457 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: When our body dies, we leave behind our energies. Our 458 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 2: energies is EMF, and this starts to pick it up. Unquote. 459 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,239 Speaker 2: Among the paranormal skeptic community, the K two meter is 460 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 2: notorious for giving off false positives. With its unshielded sensor 461 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 2: is able to be set off by cell phones, radio waves, 462 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 2: and even nearby batteries. The other device we were using 463 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 2: is something called a rempod. Essentially, it's a small, horrible 464 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 2: sounding junior theoremy with some LEDs attached. An antenna creates 465 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 2: an electromagnetic field. If something conductive gets close to the antenna, 466 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 2: it forms a capacitor between the object and the antenna, 467 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 2: and the pod will light up and make some noise, 468 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 2: or if it's electromaenetic field gets disrupted by something like 469 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 2: say cellular or radio frequencies, it will also make a 470 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 2: horrible beeping noise and light up. I'm going to read 471 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 2: another quote from our lead investigator quote when our energies 472 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 2: are around, the pod will react to any energy field 473 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 2: that comes close to its antenna. So as we invite 474 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 2: spirits in, we can tell them how they can interact, 475 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 2: and we can tell them, hey, if you walk over 476 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 2: to that light over there and touch it, it'll light 477 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 2: up unquote. There is something funny to me about telling 478 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 2: a ghost to walk over somewhere, just a little it's 479 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 2: just a little amusing. My group of five intrepid investigators 480 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 2: were sent out to the bathhouse, which we were told 481 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 2: used to be a carriage house and horse stables that 482 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 2: got damaged in the nineteen twelve Seaside fire. The lead 483 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 2: investigator started by informing any possible spirits that we do 484 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 2: not mean them quote harm or intrusion, and that we 485 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 2: would just quote like to talk. He then informed any 486 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 2: ghosts in the vicinity that if they quote unquote walk 487 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 2: up to any of the devices with LED lights and 488 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 2: quote unquote touch it, it will light up. Quote, go ahead, 489 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 2: use your energy and touch all those lights for me. 490 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 2: That way we know you're here unquote. Potential specters were 491 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 2: also informed that if they speak into an electronic recording device, 492 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 2: us corporeal humans could hear their voice when we play 493 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 2: back the audio. This is called EVP, or electronic voice phenomenon. 494 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 2: More on that on the next episode. The lead investigator 495 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 2: then asked any nearby ghosts what their favorite food is, 496 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 2: which seems like a cruel question to ask a ghost 497 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 2: because they can't eat anyway. A barrage of questions then 498 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 2: flooded out, can you tell us your name? What are 499 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 2: you wearing? Who is the president? Not exactly all things 500 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 2: I would ask a spectral anomaly if I was given 501 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 2: the opportunity. But after a few minutes of silence, the 502 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 2: rempod is started to light up very faintly. The lead 503 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 2: investigator starts talking to the presumed ghost and suggests that 504 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 2: they play a game to find out what the ghost's 505 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 2: name is. This is how it works. Someone recites the 506 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 2: alphabet and if the rempod lights up on any of 507 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 2: the letters, that means the letter is in the ghost's name. 508 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 2: We first got the letter N and then the letters 509 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 2: O and D. Then I started going through the alphabet 510 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 2: and it lit up on the letter I. Then it 511 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 2: let up on the letter I again, and then the 512 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 2: letter R. At this point, the lead investigator decided that 513 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 2: the ghost's name was Ronnie. As we were about to 514 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 2: leave the bathhouse, someone who worked at the end came 515 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 2: in and told us that there was a stableman with 516 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 2: the last name Norris who died in the fire. So 517 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 2: now the ghost's name became Norris. Next we moved to 518 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 2: the basement. One person in our group was a little 519 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 2: spooked and elected to stay outside. None of the rempods 520 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 2: or anything lit up in the basement, but the person 521 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 2: from the inn, the one who told us about Norris, 522 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 2: joined us in the basement. When down there, they said 523 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 2: they saw a ghost that they were familiar with, named Cassandra. 524 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 2: They then turned to me and said that Cassandra likes me. 525 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 2: Cassandra was reportedly trying to give me a hug and 526 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 2: said that she wishes me quote all the well beings 527 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 2: in the world unquote. Now, Cassandra was also apparently trying 528 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,919 Speaker 2: to tell me about a Grandpa John, which I don't have, 529 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 2: So if any of you have a Grandpa John who 530 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 2: needs to tell me something. Just let me know. 531 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: All right, back inside the house part of the inn, 532 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: and we're about to go tour upstairs. We just went 533 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: down into the basement and just got out of there. Yeah. 534 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,280 Speaker 2: Once back inside the inn, we went into the upstairs bedrooms. 535 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 2: People set up their EMF detectors, but there was also 536 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 2: some new equipment. One of the rooms had a security 537 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 2: camera and a grid projector to record any irregular shadows. 538 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 2: And I was given a spirit box. A spirit box 539 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 2: is a handheld radio tuner that sweeps through AM or 540 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 2: FM frequencies at a high rate. You mostly hear a 541 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 2: sort of grating, staticky white noise with small bits of 542 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 2: words or music slipping through from radio stations. I guess 543 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 2: it's sort of the modern incarnation of the spirit phone. 544 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 2: The idea is that ghosts can somehow manipulate the radio 545 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 2: waves to speak complete words or sentences as the box 546 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 2: is cycling between frequencies. Basically, spirit boxes are supposed to 547 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 2: act as an electronic radio medium for spirits to communicate. 548 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 2: The lead investigator thought that the spirit box was telling 549 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 2: us to leave, but words weren't really clear in my opinion. 550 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 2: For example, here is a clip in question. 551 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: In the room. 552 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 2: There was also some flickering lights and high EMF ratings, 553 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 2: which mostly just got me concerned for this bedroom's electrical wiring. 554 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 2: The second half of the investigation was pretty uneventful, and 555 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 2: around two am we called it a night and I 556 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 2: recorded a little debrief on our way back to the hotel. No, 557 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 2: I do find it super interesting how people try to 558 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 2: like the way they interpret electual readings as you would 559 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 2: a conversation, and they they assert their reality on it, 560 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 2: being like if this happens, this means you say yes, right, 561 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 2: so then so then the abs of the thing also 562 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 2: becomes an answer. It's it's it is a very interesting 563 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 2: process of people like crafting their own reality as things 564 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:31,760 Speaker 2: are happening. 565 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 5: No, it was definitely them crafting their own reality. 566 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 2: But also I'm like, like, probably some of it's like interesting, 567 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 2: but there's still a whole bunch of points where you 568 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 2: like make a decision, be like this is the thing 569 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 2: that I heard, right, Because like even when they were 570 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 2: doing the name game thing, a lot of times the 571 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 2: light would light up and they would like still kind 572 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 2: of keep moving on. 573 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 3: So yeah, like there was an f and and I 574 00:37:54,680 --> 00:38:00,280 Speaker 3: that it went off for the. 575 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's this a whole bunch of very very 576 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 2: peculiar things that had that like go into crafting what 577 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 2: the idea of reality is going to be? 578 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: Stop making a thing? Then making a thing, and then 579 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: it starts again. 580 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 2: You're like, oh, no, you're not supposed to do that, 581 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 2: and it's like it's a very it's a very very bizarre, 582 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 2: bizarre process to watch when putting together these two episodes. 583 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 2: This last October, Elaine and I once again conversed to 584 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,320 Speaker 2: share our thoughts on our first ghost hunting experience. Okay, 585 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 2: now that it has been over six months since you 586 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 2: and I were at the organ Ghost Conference, I'm curious 587 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 2: to see how our debrief now may kind of differ 588 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,800 Speaker 2: or be expanded upon from our debrief literally minutes after 589 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 2: we left this investigation at the Story night in and 590 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 2: you know this this day was This day was interesting 591 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 2: because we had the ghost Detective class like right before 592 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 2: this investigation. We were able to have these two kind 593 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 2: of ideas of what a ghost investigation looks like kind 594 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 2: of play off each other, which I think led to 595 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 2: a pretty fun holistic experience in terms of the many 596 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 2: kind of diversity of investigators that were at this event. 597 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 5: I think just the most notable thing was they didn't 598 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 5: do a single thing that the forensic ghost Hunting class suggested, 599 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 5: just like literally, yeah, we could have gone down the 600 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 5: list of every single thing that the forensic ghost Hunting 601 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 5: class suggested to do, and not one of those. 602 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 2: Was done, like completely the opposite. 603 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 5: Record keeping of what phenomenon occurred did not happen. 604 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 2: Logging any data yeah. 605 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 5: Did not happen. Investigation of the structures, yeah, did not happen. 606 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 5: Doing a history of the structure didn't occur. The only 607 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 5: interviews we had with someone was the person who said 608 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 5: they were a medium who lived there. 609 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 610 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 5: Even just like questions like how long have you seen 611 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 5: things here? Didn't occur. 612 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 2: No, it wasn't very interesting just in terms of how 613 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 2: like the ghost hunt at the end was literally just 614 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 2: the exact opposite of all of the sorts of procedures 615 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 2: that the ghost detective class was trying to lay out, 616 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 2: which we attended just like literally hours prior. 617 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 5: Well, I think one thing that you can really see 618 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 5: between the how to do a ghost Investigation class and 619 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 5: then the ghost investigation itself is the how to do 620 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 5: a paranormal investigation class doesn't assume you know what you're investigating, 621 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 5: and so it really is a lot about doing, you know, 622 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 5: background talks with people, like talking to sources what phenomena. 623 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 5: It's not assuming that there was anything paranormal in the 624 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 5: first place, and it's an investigation of whether or not 625 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 5: something paranormal has occurred. And when you go to the 626 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 5: ghost hunt, specifically the ghost hunt that we went to, 627 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 5: everyone there was a assuming that paranormal things were occurring 628 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 5: just as a baseline. 629 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:11,280 Speaker 2: They were interpreting readings from their specialized ghost hunting equipment 630 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 2: as proof of communication with some kind of paranormal force. 631 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 5: There's a lot of implicit assumptions made. First off, if 632 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 5: you start talking to phenomenon, you're assuming that there's phenomenon. 633 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 5: You're assuming the phenomenon can hear you, You're assuming the 634 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,880 Speaker 5: phenomenon wants to interact with you. And if you say, 635 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 5: if you can hear me, touch the light, all of 636 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 5: those are very implicit assumptions. It's not investigating what phenomenon 637 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 5: there is. You've already framed what you expect the encounter 638 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 5: to be and how whatever you're encountering will interact with 639 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 5: a whole mess of like ideas. 640 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, my favorite thing about that from the experience at 641 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 2: the at the starting night in is like we were 642 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,720 Speaker 2: basically with this like middle aged man who just kept 643 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 2: yelling at any like prospective ghosts that were around the vicinity, 644 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 2: And like, why would a ghost want to follow the 645 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,239 Speaker 2: commands of like a middle aged man. 646 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 5: I mean I didn't want to follow the commands when 647 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,800 Speaker 5: he would say everyone needs to be quiet. I wanted 648 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 5: to like start yelling or muttering just out of sheer obstinence. 649 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 5: Because of the way that he was instructing things, I 650 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 5: can't imagine a spiritual entity, if it was a ghost, 651 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 5: even the way he's conceiving of it, would somehow not. 652 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have this little exchange laid out here where 653 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 2: he was. He was addressing what I guess he assumed 654 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 2: was a ghost, saying, quote, make the lights stop, back away, 655 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 2: back away, good good. Now get closer, thank you, thank you, 656 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 2: one more time, get closer all right, now make the 657 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 2: light stop. 658 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: Ah. 659 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 2: I didn't tell you to get closer, back away, back away, 660 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 2: back a way good. Okay, now now get closer good good. 661 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 2: The only thing that was changing throught that back and 662 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 2: forth was that occasionally a little lightwood kind of go 663 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 2: on and that was it, right, like, but he's able 664 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,919 Speaker 2: to weave this whole story in between this light going 665 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,319 Speaker 2: on by saying back up and then the light turns off, 666 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 2: and then saying okay, now come closer. You wait like 667 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 2: ten fifteen seconds the light turns on. He's able. It's 668 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,399 Speaker 2: it's it's crafting this whole like timeline of this ghost 669 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 2: like doing this thing when really this is just a 670 00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 2: flickering light like that that, but through the way that 671 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 2: he has this like uh, this like commanding voice, it's 672 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,279 Speaker 2: making it as if the ghost is like following these 673 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,440 Speaker 2: instructions and then being being like rewarded for following these 674 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 2: instructions by saying like good, good, good good, or if 675 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 2: they don't follow instructions, then the ghost is like scolded. 676 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 2: So it's it's just a lot of a lot of 677 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 2: interactions like that. 678 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 5: I mean, I've gone through the same narration when I 679 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,839 Speaker 5: stare at a candle flame like a little bit high like, 680 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 5: but it doesn't mean that the candle is necessarily responding 681 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:02,440 Speaker 5: to me. 682 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 2: Both activity on the rempod and the lack of activity 683 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 2: are taken as a sign of spirit communication. Questions will 684 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 2: be framed as if you want us to leave you alone, 685 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,400 Speaker 2: light up, so if nothing happens, that itself is taken 686 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,360 Speaker 2: as an actionable answer. Whoever is leading the quote unquote 687 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 2: investigation gets to either intentionally or even unintentionally, craft the 688 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,200 Speaker 2: meaning of the experience based on how the questions are framed, 689 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 2: when questions are asked, and how the group responds based 690 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 2: on the activity or lack thereof, of the EMF devices. 691 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:43,720 Speaker 2: The rempods often go off erratically or in seemingly random intervals, 692 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:48,040 Speaker 2: but when their activity happens after someone just asks twenty questions, 693 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 2: it's assumes to be related to whatever the most recent 694 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,880 Speaker 2: line of inquiry was. It all operates on correlation versus causation, 695 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,839 Speaker 2: with people mostly jumping on the ladder. No matter when 696 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,319 Speaker 2: pods light up, the results can be turned into a 697 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 2: meaningful sign if the investigator is talking frequently enough. These 698 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 2: sorts of ghost hunts are primarily a form of entertainment. 699 00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,560 Speaker 2: It's a novel experience you can have with your friends 700 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 2: and family to have a fun time together over the 701 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,120 Speaker 2: course of a few hours and maybe get a little spooked. 702 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,279 Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting a rigorous scientific investigation at midnight and 703 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 2: seaside Oregon, nor do I think that's even a useful 704 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,839 Speaker 2: way of getting at the heart of the phenomenon. Rather 705 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 2: than viewing ghost hunts as objective inquiries into paranormal activity, 706 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,920 Speaker 2: I think for most people they operate more as a 707 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 2: way of inducing paranormal experiences, the same way occultism seeks 708 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 2: to induce mystical experiences, and religion strives for a connection 709 00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:52,280 Speaker 2: with God. All of these are practices of constructing meaning 710 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,839 Speaker 2: and finding patterns, and that's not to discount them. They 711 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,760 Speaker 2: only are a problem when they become exploitative and harmful 712 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 2: to yourself and others, which is what we'll be talking 713 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,560 Speaker 2: about in the next episode. So stay tuned to hear 714 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:12,040 Speaker 2: about warrior angels tasked with vanquishing demons, how mendel illness 715 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,320 Speaker 2: is a sure sign you're possessed by an evil spirit, 716 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 2: and how abortions and the Internet are opening up portals 717 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:22,160 Speaker 2: in our world to demonic forces. See you on the 718 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:28,920 Speaker 2: other side. It could happen here as a production of 719 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,879 Speaker 2: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, 720 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,799 Speaker 2: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out 721 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,719 Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or Wherever you listen 722 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,680 Speaker 2: to podcasts, you can find sources for it could happen here. 723 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,240 Speaker 2: Updated monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. 724 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:45,280 Speaker 5: Thanks for listening.