1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: So true story. Four hundred years before crystal Ball Cologne 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: reached what he thought was India, I. 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 2: Mean Christopher Columbus. 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, crystal Ball, before he did reach this, for 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: centuries and centuries, there was a city with a population 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: similar in size to London right here in North America. 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 3: Say what, that's right, Kahokia, not to be confused with 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 3: the Kloika. 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: That's different, Yes. 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: Very very different, very different things. And that's our classic 11 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: episode for this evening, folks. Once upon a time, Kuika 12 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: was a enormously prosperous city, the largest of its sort 13 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 1: north of Mexico on this continent. And do you guys 14 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: remember this episode? 15 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 3: Well, I just remember that people seem to have abandoned 16 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 3: it and we're not really sure why. 17 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 4: It feels very mysterious to me, Like the entire episode 18 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 4: is one big mystery. 19 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: It's very Krakatoa thirteen fifty CE. This metropolis was largely abandoned. 20 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: What happened? 21 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 5: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 22 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 5: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 23 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 5: learn this stuff. They don't want you to know. A 24 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 5: production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works? 25 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 4: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 26 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:34,839 Speaker 4: my name is Nolan. 27 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our guest 28 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: super producer Tari So reach out and say hi. Most importantly, 29 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: you are you. You are here, and that makes this 30 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know, a bit of 31 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: a history episode for us. You guys, we have in 32 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: the past explored lost civilizations, and we've explored lost cities 33 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: spoiler alert by the way, there are tons and tons 34 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: of them around spoiler alert. 35 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 2: We've spoiled Lost and gotten yelled at about it. 36 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: It's true, that's true. 37 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: That's the thing that happened. 38 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 1: I think Loss spoils itself at the edge. I don't 39 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: want to throw pot shots at it. But it's a 40 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: great show. 41 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 4: It really is. But then they remade it into a 42 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 4: more fun version and now it's called The Good Place. 43 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 3: You know, you're right, man, never thought about that connection, 44 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 3: but it is kind of Not only is it more fun, it's. 45 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: Just like a better show. It knows where it's going. 46 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yes. 47 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: But they do still wrestle with some of the same 48 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: philosophical quandaries at the time. I think that's an excellent comparison. 49 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: One thing that the good Place does not have that 50 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: Lost does have. It is a collection of inexplicable ruins. 51 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? We all look. I'm gonna 52 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 1: spoil it because it's one of the coolest parts. Spoiler 53 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: countdown three, two, one, the foot, where's the body? Why? 54 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: Why are there only four toes? 55 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 2: Spoiler alert You never find out. 56 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 1: They will never tell you. But but it turns out 57 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: that they're cleaving the show careers of Lost, or cleaving 58 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: closer to the truth than you might imagine. The US 59 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: is often explained in the following way. In comparison to Europe. 60 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: They'll say, in Europe, two hundred miles is a long way. 61 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: In the US, two hundred years is a long time. 62 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: And we often think about this country in terms of 63 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: the beginning of migration across the ocean, right, So we 64 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: don't think of all the people who crossed over the 65 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: Bearing straight in ancient times. We don't think of the 66 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: pre Columbian cultures that rose and fell. We think of 67 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: you know, crystal Ball Colombo selling the Ocean blue. 68 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 4: He sold the Ocean blue. I completely agree. 69 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 3: Crystal Ball Colombo, Crystal bal columb Okay, hmm. 70 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: I was like, I am not aware of this pronunciation. 71 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 4: I like it. 72 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: It's it's a new series that Damon Lindtoff and I 73 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: and jj Abrams are working on. 74 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, And he's just a detective and he's going around 75 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 4: looking at land. He's like a he's a purveyor of land. 76 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 3: He looks at the land and he turns and walks away, 77 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 3: and then he says, actually more to this land than 78 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 3: meets the eye. 79 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 4: My wife and what Yeah, it's your wife and a 80 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 4: bunch of native people. 81 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: Right right in this in this idea, of course, Crystabal 82 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: Colombo is solving the crimes that he himself commits. 83 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 4: There we go easy. 84 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: It's it's essentially memento comparisons have been made. But right, 85 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: it would be it would be apt for this fictional 86 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: character to look at the land, turn around and come 87 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: back and say, actually, there's a lot more to it, 88 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: to your example, Noel, Because for a long long time, 89 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: we we were sold a myth in this country, we 90 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: being the people of what we call the United States, 91 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: we were told that there was this vast, sparsely populated 92 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: continent rich in all sorts of resources. You want timber boom, 93 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: you want salmon boom. 94 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 4: All you have to do is go out there in 95 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 4: the frontier and capture it. It's waiting for you. 96 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: Right right, manifest that destiny. For centuries, the history of 97 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: North America was largely ignored or actively suppressed by European 98 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: powers exploring and colonizing the continent. Nations on the eastern 99 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: side of the Atlantic overwhelmingly depicted North America this way, 100 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: a land of exoticism and opportunity, and they ardently and 101 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,239 Speaker 1: purposely suppressed the fact that this continent was already home 102 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: to a massive assortment of sophisticated, pre existing cultures who 103 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: would have been just fine without European intervention and all 104 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: the disease and degradation that it brought along with it. So, 105 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: if this myth of empty North America is indeed false, 106 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: what do we know about it? Like, what are the facts? 107 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 4: Oh sure? I mean, prior to any Europeans showing up 108 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 4: on North American land, there were one hundred and twelve 109 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 4: million people already living somewhere on the continent. And you know, 110 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 4: lower estimates do range to as little as eight million 111 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 4: people from that one hundred and twelve million, So there 112 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 4: is a range because it's not known the exact number 113 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 4: of people. There's no census, there's no any way of 114 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 4: telling how many different peoples. You can you can tell 115 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 4: how many different well, at least close to however, many 116 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 4: different cultures essentially exist just from finding things, but knowing 117 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 4: the exact number of people is very, very difficult. 118 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: Right right. The one thing we do know is that 119 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: there were millions of people, yes, and they weren't all 120 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: just sort of strolling around so as many one hundred 121 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: and twelve million people of fourteen ninety two, but by 122 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: sixteen fifty that population had already plummeted to less than 123 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: six million. The people living at the height of pre 124 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: European history had extensive trade networks, They had rich cultural lives, 125 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: they had cities, they had internal and external warfare, conflict cooperation, 126 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: all the things that Europe was doing. And they had 127 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: dense urban areas, which is something that may surprise a 128 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: lot of people listening right. Normally, when you think of 129 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: pre European populations, we think of people living a perhaps 130 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: nomadic existence in some areas of the continent. We think 131 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: of complex cave dwellings, perhaps, but we don't think of 132 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: a London, you know, or we don't think of a Berlin. 133 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 4: So at least, yeah, an early version of that with 134 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 4: structures and highly organized societ existing within these structures. 135 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: So we would like to introduce you to one of 136 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: the largest known pre European cities in the on the 137 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: continent at the time, a place called Kahokia. 138 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 3: So in its prime, about four centuries before our boy 139 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 3: Colombo stumbled onto the Western hemisphere, walked away, and then 140 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 3: decided to come back. 141 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 2: And you know, dig a little deeper. 142 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 3: Kahokia was a prosperous pre American city with a population 143 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 3: very similar to London. Archaeological data showed that agricultural settlements 144 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 3: first appear in the area around four hundred a d. 145 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 3: And then in ten fifty AD you had a boom 146 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: population boom at Cokiya, which became a major political and 147 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 3: cultural center, with the population booming into the tens of thousands. 148 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, when you think about something like this, 149 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 4: it's hard to imagine that it could exist anywhere near 150 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 4: current civilization, righty, Oh, that must be out in the 151 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 4: middle of nowhere somewhere, right, because we would know all 152 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 4: about that. We would people in the United States would 153 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 4: travel there to explore the remains or something, right, sure, 154 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 4: But no it was located very close to present day 155 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 4: Saint Louis. 156 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's about eight miles out of Saint Louis. It's 157 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: located in southern Illinois. This was, by all measures that 158 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: we can find, the largest North American city north of Mexico. 159 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: At the time. It had been built by a group 160 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: of people known as the Mississippians. These were native people 161 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: who occupied a large swath of the present day southeastern 162 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: US from the Mississippi River to the shores of the Atlantic. 163 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 1: This city, Gohokia, was sophisticated, it was cosmopolitan, but today 164 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: its history is virtually unknown, not to just most of 165 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: the current US residents, but even two people who live 166 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: in the area, present day residents of Illinois, Illinoisians. Illinoisians. 167 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: Oh no, I hope that's not Illinoising. Oh wow, not 168 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: worth it. 169 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 4: Just throw us in the trash. 170 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: It's this is one of those stories that was bypassed 171 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: in favor of that dominant narrative that we see reinforced 172 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: in literature, we see reinforced in in cinema. Yeah right, 173 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: And it's the idea that the people who lived here 174 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: before Europeans ever arrived were somehow less learned, which is 175 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: clearly not the case. And there's a guy named Thomas Emerson, 176 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: a professor of anthropology at the University of Illinois, who 177 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: had an interesting quote. A lot of the world, he says, 178 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: is still relating in terms of cowboys and you know, 179 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: quote unquote Indians with feathers and teepees and whatnot. But 180 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 1: in a D one thousand, from the beginning Cochy, it 181 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: was laid out to a specific plan. It doesn't grow 182 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: into a plan. It starts at as a plan with 183 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: a purpose. They created the most massive earthen mounds in 184 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: North America. Where does that come from? This is a 185 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: good question, It's a really good question. And weirdly enough, 186 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: we're looking for cities to compare this to. Well. Hear 187 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: that it bore some similarities to London, right, but in 188 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: some ways it was like Manhattan. 189 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. 190 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 3: It was home to multiple groups of people from across 191 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 3: the lands of the Mississippians. Groups included the Natchez, the Pensacola, 192 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 3: the Choctaw, the Ofo my personal favorite, I don't know 193 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 3: because I've never really heard the name before, and I 194 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 3: like saying Opho. 195 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 2: It's fun. 196 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 3: Archaeologists conducting strontium tests on the teeth of buried remains. 197 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 3: Have found that a third of the population was not 198 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 3: from Gokia but somewhere else. And this is according to Emerson, 199 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 3: who is the director of the Illinois State Archaeological Survey. 200 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, we know that the residents of this city, the 201 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: people who lived in the city center and the people 202 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: who lived on the outskirts, they did city people things. Yeah, 203 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: we have forensic traces, archaeological evidence really of their farming, trading, 204 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: and hunting efforts. And we know that they also had 205 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: urban planners. And these urban planners used astronomical alignments to 206 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: lay out a low scale metropolis that ranged, as you said, Matt, 207 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: from ten to twenty thousand people. And they planned it 208 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: again from the beginning. The cities between six and nine 209 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: square miles in area. Inside its borders. As close as 210 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: we can estimate, they're about one hundred and twenty earthen mounds. 211 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: And one thing we know for sure is the mound 212 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: building technology was pretty demanding. This was backbreaking work. We're 213 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: talking about stacking. We're digging first off, digging, hauling and stacking. 214 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 4: Because these mounds are underground dwellings or structures. Essentially, it's 215 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 4: like a place to go into. Right, it's a when 216 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 4: you imagine it, I guess in your head, I think 217 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 4: it is ben because of the growing up I guess 218 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 4: being shaped sometimes by these European ideas of what the 219 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 4: United States is. You don't even have a real understanding 220 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 4: of what a mound is when we're talking about them, 221 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 4: you know, like and just talking about how difficult it 222 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 4: is to create a single dwelling place or a building 223 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 4: that would be used for any kind of function, Like 224 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 4: it's You're absolutely right, how difficult that would be. 225 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: A lot of these are tombs as well, and by hand. 226 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: This community stacked fifty five million cubic feet of earth 227 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: and oh they as far as we know, they did 228 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: it just using woven baskets to transport it. The largest mound, 229 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: which is later called the Monks Mound after the French 230 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: trap is too tended to it in the eighteen hundreds, 231 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: was the site of a sizeable building where the city's 232 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: political and spiritual leaders met. It was surrounded by a 233 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: wooden palisade almost two miles in circumference. The town center 234 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: was where residents, pilgrims, and leaders worshiped and held ceremonies 235 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: which will be very important later on. Right now, if 236 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: we picture the city, think of it the way that 237 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of modern cities are there's a 238 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: downtown area and a lot of people will travel there 239 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: for work, for leisure lisiu or you know, maybe to 240 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: attend certain events, cultural events. 241 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 4: But just in a short term essentially. 242 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: Right, they won't live there, you know. So this city 243 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: is no different. Most of the Mississippians live on the 244 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: other side of this palisade in these single room homes 245 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: you were talking about, Matt the rectangular they're about fifteen 246 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: feet long, twelve feet wide. We know this based on 247 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: what we were able to to dig up that wooden 248 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: post walls covered with mats, thatched roofs. Far from being 249 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: a collection of villages or campsites, they were linked with 250 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: their own network of courtyards and pathways, kind of the 251 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: way streets are laid out. 252 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know there would be physical connections like 253 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 4: you're saying, that actually connect everything together. The different individual 254 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 4: homes have that feeling. It's again so uncharacteristic of the 255 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 4: way sometimes it's depicted, or a way maybe we imagine 256 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 4: in our minds of what a Native American city could 257 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 4: be like. 258 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: So we've laid out a bit of the architecture, we've 259 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: laid out a bit of this street planning, we've learned 260 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: a little bit about the inhabitants. This leads us to 261 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: the next question. Where is Kahokia now? Nowadays? There's nothing. 262 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: There's a series of mounds right. 263 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 4: Yep, and there's a I mean, that's about it. There's 264 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 4: some ruins and maybe a little bit of evidence left 265 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 4: that there was human activity that occurred in and around 266 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 4: these mounds. 267 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: Because you see the metropolis of Cohokia, thousands and thousands 268 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:20,359 Speaker 1: of people, as near as we can tell one day, 269 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: disappeared by thirteen fifty, was largely abandoned by its people, 270 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: and even today in twenty nineteen, no one knows why. 271 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 4: And we're going to find out, at least what we 272 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,359 Speaker 4: know at this point. After a quick word from our sponsor. 273 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. 274 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 4: Well, first of all, let's say, let's talk about what 275 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 4: we know. It wasn't that caused the disappearance of all 276 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 4: the humans at Hokia, not the usual suspects, things like 277 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 4: war or maybe a disease that came through, because some 278 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,959 Speaker 4: Europeans came through. Because we're talking thirteen fifty before fourteen 279 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 4: ninety two, right before some of the early early early landings, 280 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 4: So we don't we know, it's not that and European 281 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,479 Speaker 4: Conquest doesn't have anything with it. Nobody came through, like 282 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 4: you know, Hernando de Soto, because this guy was probably 283 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 4: the first person to actually make it to Kokia, right, 284 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 4: and he didn't arrive until fifteen forty that's crazy, almost 285 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 4: two hundred years after it had just been you know, disappeared. 286 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 2: He looks like he snoozed and he losed I guess. 287 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's true. By the time De Soto and Co. 288 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 1: Would have which is another show that we're pitching on, 289 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: this DeSoto and yeah, yeah, we're doing a shared universe 290 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: of European explorers and we're we're adapting, we're adapting it 291 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: to modern tastes. So we've got our detective show. M hmm, 292 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: Crystal Ball, Colombo, De Soto and Co. 293 00:17:58,640 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 4: Is what is that? 294 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 3: Just like a buddy comedy, I want to say, yeah, 295 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 3: and Co being like maybe his faithful man servants. 296 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: There we go, tell us who should play these roles? 297 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: By the way, you know, there's a lot of talent 298 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: out there. 299 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 2: I think Matt Barry would make a really good DeSoto. 300 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I could see that. 301 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 2: Who could be? Who could be? Faithful man servants? 302 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: M Well, let's let's give this the time it deserves. 303 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: Let's speak about that. 304 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's let it marinate a little bit more, and 305 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 2: let's make some T shirts. 306 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: And let's make some T shirts. Yes, yes, surely Matt 307 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: Barry will be fine with that. 308 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 2: I want Yeah. 309 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: Now I'm now I'm wondering, who's like a hot TV actor? 310 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 2: Now, I don't people like that show scandal a lot? 311 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 2: Who's in that? I don't know either. 312 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 4: I don't watch TV anymore. 313 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: Let us know. 314 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 2: Let us know who is on TV? 315 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: Who is on who is on TV? Today? And would 316 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: they be a good co for DeSoto and Co. It's strange, though, 317 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: because he would have seen this empire in decline. He 318 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: would not have seen the glory days, the vast parades right, 319 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: the grand ceremonies, the hunting parties. He would have instead 320 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: seen ruins and mounds. Many of the civilization's villages, the 321 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: Mississippians were established near trade routes or sources of water 322 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: and food, but Kahokia, like Atlanta, was different. It had 323 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: plenty of resources, but it was not built on ideal land. 324 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: What we mean when we say Kokia was similar to 325 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 1: Atlanta is the following picture. In your country or your 326 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,959 Speaker 1: neck of the global woods, the biggest cities, the biggest 327 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 1: cities in your area. In many cases, if you're talking 328 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: about the biggest cities in the country, they will be 329 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: built along sources of water. You know they'll be There 330 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: will be a city by the bay, there will be 331 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: a city by right, things like that, a city by 332 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: a gigantic lake or coast or a coast exactly. And 333 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: in the case of Atlanta, there is a river called 334 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: the Chattahoochee that is in the area. But our real transports, 335 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: our real sources of transit are man made. The world's 336 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: busiest airport, that's a river of people and goods. We 337 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: still have train lines those for a long time replace 338 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: the role of rivers. Kahokia did have a ton of resources, timber, fish, 339 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: that all that jazz, thanks to their position around these 340 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: two rivers in their area. But they were built on 341 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 1: land that was prone to flooding, which makes us wonder 342 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: why build something there at all, much less a teeming metropolis. 343 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 4: Well, there seems to be at least somewhat of an explanation, 344 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 4: and it has to do with being able to travel 345 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 4: from various places easily, especially if you were to get 346 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,479 Speaker 4: on the water to travel to this place, almost as 347 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 4: if it was meant to be a place to go 348 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 4: in the same way that the downtown was set up, 349 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,719 Speaker 4: almost like something that you temporarily go to and then 350 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 4: leave and go back home. Like the entire city. Was 351 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 4: that almost a pilgrimage city where all the Mississippians could 352 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 4: gather for big events. 353 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: A destination. Yeah right, yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. So 354 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: according to Emerson, again, it may have been a good 355 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: area to explore, but not so good to live in 356 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: because you know, flooding. 357 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, no, nobody likes that. 358 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: So something changed around a D one thousand. According to 359 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: Emerson's that boom we mentioned earlier, it becomes this major 360 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: city center. But most of the change doesn't have to 361 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 1: do with the economy, at least according to the experts. Now, 362 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: most of it has to do with what we could 363 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: in general call religion. So we don't know a lot 364 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: of the specifics, but we do know that the city 365 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: may have been built primarily for these sacred gatherings and ceremonies. 366 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: What do we mean when we say sacred gatherings and ceremonies, 367 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: we don't mean it's all pretty. 368 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 369 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 3: So, archaeological work has also uncovered a mound containing mass burials. 370 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 3: While the extent of this is still being debated, it 371 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 3: appears that the Mississippians may have conducted a little bit 372 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 3: of light ritual human sacrifice, just a touch a dash 373 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 3: of human sacrifice. And that is judging by what appears 374 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 3: to be Okay, it's not so light. Hundreds of people, 375 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 3: mostly young women, buried in these mass graves. Some of 376 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 3: them were likely strangled, others possibly were bled out. Four 377 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 3: men were found with their heads and hands cut off. 378 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 3: Another burial pit, mostly males, had been clubbed to death, 379 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 3: and researchers have found no specific evidence of any kind 380 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 3: of influence of warfare or invasion from outsiders. 381 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's that's rough. And that's again 382 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 4: why Ben was saying something we could consider religion. Right, 383 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 4: It's not necessarily a belief that was held by everyone, 384 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 4: but there was at least a group of people at 385 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 4: that Ciny center that was killing people. 386 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: Well into Nole's point there, it is crucial that we 387 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: recognize these were not nothing indicates that these were prisoners 388 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: of war. 389 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what I mean, like the hands, the 390 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 4: guys with their hands cut off and right and all that. 391 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing indicates that would be a situation similar to 392 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: Apocalypto or as Mesoamerican civilization is portrayed Apocalypto. Do you 393 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: guys remember that movie? 394 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 3: I remember it existed, I did not see it. I 395 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 3: think I already written off Mel Gibson at that point. 396 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 2: Oh, hadn't already had some weird racist outburst by then? 397 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: Let's see, I can't remember. 398 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 2: It's hard to keep track. 399 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: Which is sad? 400 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 4: Right he has he made a comeback. 401 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: I don't think so. No, I think he's just because 402 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: he is. 403 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 2: He still canceled. 404 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: I believe so, man, I believe so. He called some 405 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: he called some law enforcements some terrible things. He's pretty 406 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: virulently anti Semitic. 407 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 2: Does that mean Passion of the Christ is canceled too? 408 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: I don't know. I still you know that's Have you 409 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: guys seen it now? 410 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 4: I know I never wanted to. 411 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: I watched the Satan shows up, so I watched the 412 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: Satan clips predictably, but I haven't seen the whole thing. 413 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: And uh me and my ex used to sit around 414 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: and we'd have the DVD. This is back when DVD's 415 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: were a thing, and then we would always ask ourselves, 416 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: is tonight the night? You know, we were making dinner, 417 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: we want to watch him? Is this the night? Where 418 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: we watched Passion in the Christ not exactly a date film, 419 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: And we went for years asking ourselves if tonight was 420 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: the night? Eventually we had planned we said, you know what, 421 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 1: we're never going to watch this. We're going to get 422 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: a bunch of stickers that say is tonight the night, 423 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: and then we're going to go to Best Buy and 424 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: we're going to stick them on Passion of the Christ ds. 425 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: Pretty funny, I mean, is tonight the night? Is a 426 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: great sticker to put on stuff? 427 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 3: But you just specifically sought out the Satan scenes on YouTube. Yeah, 428 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 3: you didn't see the bludgeoning or the meaning or the anything. 429 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: I wanted to see how they handled infernal powers and 430 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: it was pretty spooky. 431 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 2: Isn't he just kind of like a grizzled old man. 432 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: It's if I remember correctly, it's a very very pale, hairless, 433 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: feminine looking That's pretty cool. I like that look for 434 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: the old devil spooky, spooky stuff. But Mel Gibson aside. 435 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: In Apocalypso you will see depictions of hunting parties gathering 436 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 1: people from different tribes outside of the city center, abducting 437 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: them and using them as victims of you know, in 438 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: a ritual sacrifice. This appears to be a situation where 439 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: in the government of the city was sacrificing its own people, 440 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: which you know, without it's tricky for us to ascribe 441 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: the motives there because we don't know why they were 442 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: doing it. You know, we don't know if it was 443 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: tied to maybe a seasonal or a turn of the seasons, 444 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: or a harvest cycle. We don't know if it was 445 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: meant to be an appeasement to some sort of divine force. 446 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: Maybe you're sacrificing people to the river, you know what 447 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 1: I mean, I just made that up. 448 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 4: I don't know. Well, yeah, again, like you could, you 449 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 4: could feasibly imagine that it would be to prevent the 450 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 4: rivers from flooding again, right from the land from flooding. 451 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 4: I can totally imagine. That. Doesn't mean it is real 452 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 4: or actually happened, but I can I can see why 453 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 4: you would want to do that or go to those 454 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 4: lengths to prevent a mass so flood from occurring. 455 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: There's another I think you pointed out earlier in that 456 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: these people did not all die in the same manner. 457 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: So there's another archaeologist, a guy named William I. Isminger, 458 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: who is the assistant manager at the Kokuia Mounds, who 459 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: posits that there must have, if not involved in sacrifice, 460 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 1: there must have been some sort of external threat, whether 461 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: it was from a local source or whether it was 462 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: from something very far away. Because the city was raised 463 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: and rebuilt four times between eleven seventy five and twelve 464 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 1: seventy five. So imagine the city, the biggest city close 465 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: to you as you're listening. Imagine that city collapsing and 466 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: being rebuilt four times over one hundred years. We don't 467 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: have a ton of cities like that here in the US. 468 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: We do have Atlanta, which was burned to the ground, 469 00:27:58,560 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: but that happened once. 470 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 2: Okay. 471 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 4: I don't want to keep harving on this, but is 472 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 4: it I just wonder if you guys think it's possible 473 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 4: that it was some kind of massive flooding though would occur, 474 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 4: because I can imagine that happening four times in one 475 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 4: hundred years, where the entire area of floods and you 476 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 4: have to rebuild everything. I mean, I can imagine it. 477 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: It's a good hypothesis, you know, because Asminger is not 478 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: definitive on his opinion on the mysterious collapse of Kahokia. 479 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: He says, maybe they were never attacked, but there was 480 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: a threat there, and then leaders felt the need to 481 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: expend a tremendous amount of time, labor, and material to 482 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: protect this central ceremonial area, you know what I mean. 483 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: And then, as we said, after reaching its population height 484 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: ten to twenty thousand people, in about eleven hundred, the 485 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: population shrinks and by thirteen fifty it's gone kaiser SoSE style, 486 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: did they sauce Land's resources? Were they victims of social 487 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: upheaval where they finally attacked? Where their droughts? Was their 488 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: climate change? Or to your point, Matt, did the waters rise? 489 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 4: We'll find out after a quick word from our sponsor. 490 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 2: Did the waters rise one time too many? That's the question. 491 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 3: So to uncover the clues to the city's fate, a 492 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 3: research team led by the University of Wisconsin Madison geographers 493 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 3: Samuel Munoz and Jack Williams performed laser diffraction particle size 494 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 3: analysis on sediment samples from Horsesoe Lake and Oxbow Lake 495 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 3: near Kahoka, and that is just a shape of a 496 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 3: type of lake. The samples yielded evidence of eight different 497 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 3: separate flood events over the past two thousand years. Drought, 498 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 3: over exploitation of these resources, and human conflict of all 499 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 3: been thrown in the mix as far as reasons are 500 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 3: concerned behind the end of Gohoikia, But an earlier study 501 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 3: of sediments from Horseshoe Lake suggested that major flooding had 502 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 3: occurred in the area around twelve hundred. 503 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: So that would be right around right after the peak population. 504 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, ooh, okay, okay. Now now I'm getting a bigger 505 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,239 Speaker 4: picture about just getting the peak of population and then 506 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 4: something coming by and it being that much more catastrophic. 507 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. The team analyzed sediments from another lake that was 508 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty miles or for the rest of 509 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: the world, one hundred and ninety kilometers downstream of Horseshoe Lake, 510 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: and they found that there was conformation of some sort 511 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: of catastrophic flood. The Mississippi River rose more than ten 512 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: meters that's thirty three feet, and they believe it played 513 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: a critical role in the total abandonment of Cohokia within 514 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty years. This kind of stuff is 515 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: happening in the modern day, you know what I mean, 516 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: on monsoon planes. There are people who are continually building 517 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: their houses, rebuilding them, evacuating when the waters rise. But 518 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: although that is a very strong set of clues, it's 519 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: not a definitive thing, you know what I mean. Oh yeah, 520 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: But we have to say, for all intents and purposes, 521 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: at this point, the mystery remains unsolved, and the strongest 522 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: indicator is probably flooding, that the city became flooded one 523 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: too many times. But whatever the case, Gohokio was largely 524 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: ignored by Europeans and later Americans because it didn't jibe 525 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: with that official narrative. It was physical proof of a sophisticated, rich, 526 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: dense urban culture existing for centuries before the arrival of Europeans, 527 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: and its existence was something that a lot of Europeans 528 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: didn't want people to know. And as a matter of fact, 529 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: when Europeans came, a lot of native people didn't know 530 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: what was going on. They would say, hey, what's that? 531 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: What is that? Gigantic, massive series of Mounds, and they 532 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: would shrug and say, I don't know, it's always been there. 533 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is ghosts of the past. Essentially, you guys. 534 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 3: Can interuper one second, ask a really important question. Yeah, 535 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 3: Almond Joy or Mounds? 536 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: Which one do? They both have? Coconut? 537 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 2: No coconut? What about you? I prefer Almond Joy. I 538 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 2: like to have a little crunch in my coconut chocolate bar. 539 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 2: What's the difference Mounds? Well, there's the song. 540 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 3: It's sometimes you feel like a nuts, sometimes you don't. 541 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 3: Almond Joy has gotten nuts. Mounds don't. 542 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 2: Oh, they just happened to have lots of bodies with 543 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 2: their hands and feed Come. 544 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I got there, you got there, you 545 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: got there. This also, this also inspires me. This has 546 00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: nothing to do with our episode, but it's a great question. 547 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: Should favorite candy bar least favorite? What? 548 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 4: And why? 549 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: I think zero was. 550 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:07,479 Speaker 2: About to say zero, that's the worst one. 551 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: It's the worst one. It's the worst candy bar. 552 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 3: White chocolate is pretty garbage in general on its son, 553 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 3: unless it's like used as an accent piece and another thing. 554 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: Sure, sure why white chocolate shouldn't be just on its own, 555 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: But also zero bars are somehow offensive to the palatine. 556 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: It's so funny. 557 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 2: I knew you were going to see bar. 558 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,479 Speaker 4: You know what's up man, I don't know that I've 559 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 4: ever had one of those. 560 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: Oh sweet summer child. 561 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: Must be nice for you two have yet not been tainted. 562 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: This explains why you're always so happy. 563 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 4: I know. Hey, I'm just eating hundred grands all the time. 564 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 3: Hundred grand is Now that's a top bar for me. 565 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 3: Hunder Grand's the top bars, quality bar. Big fan of 566 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 3: a what you might call it? 567 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I remember those? 568 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 3: Remember those had a coal commercial in the nineties too 569 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 3: that did Yeah, kind of a claimation situation. 570 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: Going on Tolboro and yes or no all day. 571 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 2: I like Toberon. I like the way it snaps. Yeah, 572 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 2: I don't know what's but I like it dark chocolate 573 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 2: to what is that? Is it toffee that's inside the. 574 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: Little I think? 575 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 4: Yeah? 576 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: Yeah so anyway, so yeah, yeah, let let us know. 577 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: Also shout out to Netli Crunch. It's it's it's pretty. 578 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 1: I think it's nostalgia that makes me like it. 579 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 4: You know, are we changing the what we're gonna start 580 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 4: doing on this show every week? 581 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: Just talk. 582 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 4: I'm enjoying this. 583 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: This is a good This is a good question. Also, 584 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: I have it on fairly solid authority that other countries 585 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: are absolutely smashing the US out of the water in 586 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: the candy bar game. No way, yes, way, Ted, all right, 587 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: but but yes, going back, it's true. We've seen this 588 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: time and time and time again. Long time listeners, you 589 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: know that despite what our species propagates about itself in 590 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: film and in literature, we're actually terrible at whole holding 591 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: on to anything or remembering anything. We lose entire civilizations. 592 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: We have no idea, We have no idea where why 593 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 1: some civilizations just stopped. We can guess, we can make 594 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 1: very good, educated guesses, but often we're coming to the 595 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: game very very late, because our predecessors did not want 596 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: to have the question answered. You know, we're talking about 597 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 1: explorers on the African continent who, when they were explorers 598 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: from Europe rather who would find these ornate ruins and 599 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: then say something like, well, clearly some other Europeans been 600 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: here before. 601 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, or there was some unknown race of humanity that 602 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 4: came down from the stars or from inside the earth 603 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 4: and created this. 604 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 2: It's definitely lizard people. 605 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,959 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean nine out of ten times you're looking 606 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: at lizards. 607 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 4: Yep, So let's jump to like, Okay, we've known humanity 608 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 4: has known about these mounds for quite a while. We've 609 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 4: known they have existed, these weird mounds. They're just out there. 610 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 4: But it wasn't until the nineteen sixties, the nineteen sixties 611 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 4: that the burial mounds there in the place of where 612 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 4: Khokia was got protected status. 613 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's correct. And before the nineteen sixties it 614 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: was the site of a lot of heavy development. Many 615 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: of the mounds were not all of them, but many 616 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: were destroyed. They were leveled for farming, right or to 617 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: become airfields. People built houses and highways on them. And 618 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: currently you can go see this place. It's about eight 619 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: miles out of Saint Louis. You can go visit this 620 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: ancient loss city and explore conjecture for yourself about what 621 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: led twenty thousand people to vanish from it, you know, 622 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: in a very short time span. 623 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 4: You can go to Kahokia dot org, which is c 624 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 4: A h O K I A M O U N 625 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 4: d S dot org if you want to learn more 626 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 4: specifically about how to get there and. 627 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: Everything, and this if this is for some of this, 628 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: this is our first time hearing about this, this sounds amazing. 629 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: A lost civilization in the heart of the United States. 630 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: Who wouldn't want to learn more about this story, Who 631 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: wouldn't want to lend a hand solving the mystery? It 632 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: might be surprised. Currently about two hundred and fifty thousand 633 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: people visit this site every year. In comparison, about four 634 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: million people visit the Gateway Arch in Saint Louis. So 635 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: there's probably not going to be a line. Yeah, you 636 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: should be okay, And that's that's the thing that leads 637 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: us to another another topic we don't have time to 638 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 1: explore on today's show. How many other things like this 639 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 1: are out here. So Georgia, the state in which our 640 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: podcast is base, has a rich pre Columbian history all 641 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: its own. A lot of people aren't aware of it. 642 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, the building in which we 643 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: record this show sits atop an ancient sacred spring. 644 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 2: You guys heard about this, right, I thought you were 645 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,439 Speaker 2: going to say Indian burial ground. 646 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: That would explain so much, right, Yeah, there's a there's 647 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,240 Speaker 1: a cistern hidden in the tower of the Pond City 648 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: Market building and it still collects water from an ancient 649 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 1: sacred spring that was driven underground. History is a palimpsest, 650 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: which I think we've said before on the show. So 651 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: a palump sest is palm sest is a weird thing, 652 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: but a great comparison. Back when paper was much much 653 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: more expensive and time consuming and rare, people wouldn't just 654 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: throw away a sheet of paper if they needed to 655 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: write something down. They would erase the previous information and 656 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,240 Speaker 1: right over it. But because of the way they wrote, 657 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,879 Speaker 1: we can still see what was there before because there 658 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: are indentations in the paper, And that's a lot like 659 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: studying history. We're not looking at the stuff written on top. 660 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: We're digging deeper. That's what the show is all about. 661 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: And the strangest thing is we never quite seem to 662 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: get to the bottom. 663 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 4: And we probably won't ever. We're gonna be making this 664 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 4: show for the next two hundred years. This whole studio 665 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 4: is gonna flood four times the next hundred years. 666 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 3: Well, thankfully, it's all sort of like a mini Noah's 667 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 3: Ark kind of situation. Yeah, keep you described it as 668 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 3: the shipping continna, but it really is. It probably would 669 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 3: just rise with the waters. Yeah, you can just continue 670 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 3: podcasting atop the high seas. 671 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 4: Tarry, Are you gonna be okay to just keep it 672 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 4: rolling while all that's happening? Yeah, she's yeah, she says. Uh. Oh, 673 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 4: she said, of course I got this. 674 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 2: A big yes. 675 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: Sorry. Is so cool, you guys. But she did not 676 00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: sign up for a catastrophic flood, right she could? 677 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:01,279 Speaker 4: Che can handle. 678 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:02,439 Speaker 1: I guess most people don't. 679 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. 680 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: There are very few people who are like, oh, man, 681 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: can't wait, I'm so I'm so. 682 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 4: Hype unless you live in Miami. 683 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, that's right, that's right, you have family there. 684 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: We hope that you enjoyed this brief exploration of the 685 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: mystery of Kohokia. As Matt said, you can visit their 686 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: website for more information. And we would like to hear 687 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 1: from you. What are the what are the forgotten monuments 688 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: or ruins in your neck of the woods. We talked 689 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,280 Speaker 1: a little bit about what was built upon ancient sites 690 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: here in Georgia. With just one example, I imagine there 691 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: are hundreds, if not thousands, of even better, more explicit examples, 692 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: and we want to know yours. 693 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, and have you ever been to Mississippian culture mound 694 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,800 Speaker 4: structure anywhere or a series of mounds anywhere. Have you 695 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,800 Speaker 4: been to some of the mounds in Georgia or just 696 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,839 Speaker 4: wherever you live? We want we want to know your 697 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,240 Speaker 4: experience and if you've heard anything else that we should 698 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 4: learn about, or a whole maybe a whole nother podcast 699 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 4: we should make about that specific culture or location. Please 700 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 4: find us on Facebook or Instagram, where we are Conspiracy 701 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 4: Stuff and Conspiracy Stuff Show. We're also on Twitter hanging 702 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,800 Speaker 4: out over there. But let's just, you know, everybody just 703 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,279 Speaker 4: try and be nice on Twitter. Okay, let's everybody be nice. 704 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:25,400 Speaker 4: Most of y'all are super. 705 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 2: Cool people not being nice on Twitter, Matt, I've. 706 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,600 Speaker 4: Just noticed on Twitter lately there's been a lot of 707 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 4: niceness really, just Twitter at large or our Twitter. It's 708 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,839 Speaker 4: just very opinionated, that's all I think. Okay, So if 709 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 4: you don't want to do that stuff, find us on 710 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 4: our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy, where we 711 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 4: have the best mods on the planet. Shout out to 712 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:43,919 Speaker 4: you guys. 713 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 2: People get cranky on there sometimes too, but it's. 714 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 4: Okay again, those mods hold us down. Let's see what 715 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 4: else we got. 716 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 3: You can check out me and Ben's Instagrammy's if you 717 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,879 Speaker 3: want to. I'm at Embryonic Insider. I'm at Ben Bolin, Matt, 718 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 3: I believe you are at Kim Kardashian. 719 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: Where is it, Kylie Jenner? 720 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 4: I don't know what it is this week. 721 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 2: You are at the Famous Egg. 722 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:09,320 Speaker 4: That's it. That's it. I'm an egg. Find me like 723 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 4: my posts, heart them whatever you do on Instagram. 724 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,479 Speaker 1: And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't 725 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: wait to hear your thoughts. We try to be easy 726 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: to find online. 727 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 3: Find this at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where we exist 728 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 3: on Facebook X and YouTube, on Instagram and TikTok. We're 729 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:26,720 Speaker 3: Conspiracy Stuff. 730 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 4: Show call our number. It's one eight three three st 731 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 4: d WYTK. 732 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 1: Leave a voicemail and if you have more to say, 733 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: we can't wait to hear from you at our good 734 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,439 Speaker 1: old fashioned email address where we are conspiracy at iHeartRadio 735 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 1: dot com. 736 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 4: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production 737 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,279 Speaker 4: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 738 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,280 Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.