WEBVTT - Superintendent Roundtable 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.560 I miss the green, for example, I'm already upset. 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:04.960 When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:06.320 And when I find my ball. 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:09.520 In a brid egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, fridagg, 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:11.960 Frida Egg, Frida Egg bride Egg. 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.120 Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the course. 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.720 Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to another edition of the 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:47.720 Frida Egg Podcast. Today we're doing our first ever live podcast, 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.720 and I'm lucky to be joined by a couple of 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:55.720 the brightest and youngest stars in the turf industry from Chicago. 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.320 We've got Brian Moore from the glen View Club, Brian 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:04.119 Palmer from Shore Acres, Scott Pavalco from the Babbelink Club, 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:08.800 and then I'm also joined by fellow golf nerd Jason Way. Guys, 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:10.600 welcome on, Thank. 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:12.520 You for having us, Thanks for having us. 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:15.679 So to kick things off, I'd love to hear from 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.200 each of you guys about how you guys got into 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:21.319 turf and how you got into golf. 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:27.399 More importantly, Yeah, I grew up around the game. My 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.399 father was superintendent, so I'm pretty sure all three of 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:34.920 us is the common theme right there. So just basically 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:38.520 every summer from probably the age of eleven or so 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:42.279 was spent on the golf course with my father. Helped 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.280 out where I could caddied, and just really developed my 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:48.720 love for the game through summers with him. 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.880 He was at an old. 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:53.800 Course in Elmsford, New York and Norwood Country Club, so 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:59.760 there's some pretty historical significance of that club and architecturally too, 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:04.280 I think Tailinghouse, rain Air, and then Banks took over 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.240 once Rayner died, so it's a pretty cool property where 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.760 you can see essentially, you know, tidbits of all three 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:12.920 of them. So it's kind of where my love for 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:15.119 golf and architecture stems from. 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.919 Nice and then you were at the Loop. 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.720 The Loop grew in the Loop in northern Michigan. 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:23.480 And then came too. 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:26.400 Yeah that's a little layover at Chicago Golf Club. 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:29.160 So yeah, yeah, not at it all not bad. 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.240 You got to see a lot of good architecture, how 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:32.919 about you, Brian. 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.320 I'm pretty pretty much like Brian over here. My dad 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.919 was a superintendent, so I used to go to work 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.600 with him on the weekends and I started working for 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:44.680 him full time, I guess on the payroll when I 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:50.400 was fifteen sixteen, and my grandfather played golf. He's the 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:54.320 one that taught me how to play. And at some point, 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.000 I guess I decided that I want to go do 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:57.840 it for a living and end up going to college 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:01.040 and just go to work at some clubs around the 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.960 Northeast and having some fun. And I guess the other 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.040 passion just kind of grew from more experience. 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:12.760 Yeah, my story is somewhat similar, but a little bit different. 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:17.600 My father was also superintendent at a little public course 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.280 in just outside of Youngstown, Ohio. I grew up. I 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:24.760 was born and raised in Ohio, and unlike these guys, 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.720 when I was fifteen, I thought the idea of getting 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.880 up for work at four am was ridiculous. So I 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:32.960 did other things at that time, but I grew up 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.960 around the game of golf. My grandfather retired from the 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.760 steel mills in Youngstown the year before I was born, 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.200 and I kind of grew up. He was kind of 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:42.800 my best friend as a little kid. He would take 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:44.880 me to the little Part three golf course and we 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:47.680 would chip around, and that's kind of I can ever 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:51.840 remember not being around golf. So fast forward to my twenties, 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.440 I started working for my father at his course, and 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.160 after about a season, I just knew it's what I 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.400 wanted to do. At that point, I didn't really know 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:02.480 what I wanted to do with my life, but after 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.040 working for him, I fell in love with being outdoors 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:08.760 every day. I love the game of golf, the problem solving. 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.160 And then I went to o Highest University got my 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.240 degree and I worked at Mierfield Village for eight years. 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:17.080 I was fortunate to be hired there, and then luckily 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:20.320 the Jeensic family took a chance on me. I was 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:22.520 a young kid and they hired me to run cog 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:24.960 Hill for three years, and then after that I went 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:25.640 up to Babblink. 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:30.160 So what's the best part about waking up at four 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:31.279 am every day. 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:34.839 For me living in the city, no traffic. 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:41.919 I'm not quite sure. I really like to watch the 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.120 other sunrise and I can't stand to wake up when 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:48.719 the sun has already risen. I really kind of feel 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:50.000 like I wasted a day at that point. 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.359 Yeah, it's that sort of that feeling of accomplishment. You know, 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.560 it's fun to be up and five hours later you 0:04:57.600 --> 0:04:59.760 see people driving to work and you're like, yeah, you know, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.200 and working for four or five hours, you know, and 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.560 wide awake. I like to joke that on my days off, 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:07.039 I like to sleep in until five point thirty. 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:14.520 So to kick things kind of off into the superintended talk, 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:19.080 I think there's a disconnect with your regular golfer and 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.000 what you guys do on a daily basis and for 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:26.400 a living. So what's one thing that you wish every 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.280 member at your club understood about your job? 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.320 I think, you know, what's interesting about our job is 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:43.000 that we strive to create a playing you know, a 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:47.400 place for recreation that's the same every day. But by definition, 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.560 it can't be the same every day because you have 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:53.560 so many different variables. You know, we're dealing with living things, 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:58.279 the weather, and so you know, the golfer is there 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.920 for a brief four hour window, you know, hopefully less, 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.159 hopefully three and a half, but sometimes four to five, 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.560 and you know, we do our best to make sure 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:13.400 everything's the same, but it's really not possible because of 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:15.039 all the variables. 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:17.440 Yeah, I think I'm with Scott there. 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.239 It's so hard to have a consistent product every day 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:23.760 given all the variables. But the one thing I wish 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.160 that that, Yeah, the members of all the clubs and 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.960 all the golfers in general. Really we're able to see 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:32.719 how large of a team we have and how many 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:34.800 things we're trying to accomplish in an eight to ten 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:39.400 hour day, and how much work is actually done long 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:43.040 before the sun rises, long before the first tea time at. 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:44.120 Eight o'clock or whatever it is. 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.159 I mean, there's there's a lot going into it. And 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.440 I really wish that some more golfers, some more members 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.159 would go out earlier, go ask the superintendent to go 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.040 cut cups or go to Corset, just go for a walk. 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:57.880 In the morning and see how much is actually happening. 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.440 It's like they should have a mandatory, uh, you know, 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:03.520 like you bring your kids to work day, it should 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:05.680 be bring your member to work day. 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:06.360 Yeah. 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:07.840 I've offered it up and I've had a couple of 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:10.880 coming cut cups and it'd be great if more did it. 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:11.320 It's fun. 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:15.000 Yeah, I just think it's the amount of time it 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:18.760 takes in the morning, kind of what Brian said. You 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.400 know how large your crew is, and you know how 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.760 much is actually going on in the day, and you 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.000 know how much time you'd really like to have in 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.840 the morning to get it set up, and you know, 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.320 probably for all of us, it's you know, getting get 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.800 it all done before play, stay in front, and the moment, 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.160 the moment you get caught, it kind of just you know, 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:39.679 throws a wrench and everything. 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:45.360 So so the three of you guys recently took a 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:50.480 trip to the British Islands. I'm interested, you know, when 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.000 I go to golf course, I'm always looking at the 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:58.160 architecture from a superintendent's lens. What do you guys look 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.600 at and what are kind of some cool things that 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:02.000 you took away from the trip. 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:08.360 I think it's how little they do over there, you know, 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.760 the perception of you know, the members over there and 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:17.800 what they expect, not condition wise, but just how much 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.280 they just let nature be over there. They don't try 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:26.360 to control and minimal, minimal inputs. That's what I always knew, 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.280 that's what they did, but to see it over there 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:33.320 and you know, you know, they just don't fertilize fair ways. 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:35.760 And for me, that's kind. 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.560 Of what I'm trying to do this year, and just 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:42.520 how little inputs they put into things. But I just 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.480 think it's, you know the perception of the members from 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.719 here to there, you know, what they expect at our 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:53.199 clubs are entirely different, you know, so it's a tough 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:57.080 balance to try to do little but make it look 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:57.880 like you're doing a lot. 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.360 So where do you think that we in our golf 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.640 culture here went off the rails with that, because that's 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.880 clearly not the way we are here about golf. And 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.160 you know what can people like Andy and I who 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.080 are out there trying to fight the good perception fight 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.600 for you do to help get us a little bit, 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.199 you know, more back in line with the spirit of 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:20.600 the game. 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.480 Well, I think that what's really interesting, even if it's 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:27.679 I mean, we're very fortunate to go to some of 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.520 the better clubs in the UK and Scotland and everything 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:32.240 is so simple from the moment that you step out 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.920 of your car. There isn't a ton of employees and 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:39.120 everyone coming to greet you, and the clubhouses aren't huge 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.000 and grand, and you can really walk on the best 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:44.000 golf courses in the world just been walking up to 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:48.440 the pro shop and the other courses are very simple. 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:50.240 Obviously a lot of them have been around for a 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.920 long time that in some cases they weren't shaped or 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:56.679 you know, built, they were just kind of there and 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:01.360 seeded or you know in mode, and yeah, I think 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.760 that there's a strong a connection between the course and 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:04.160 the town. 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:05.800 You know, every. 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.240 Course has a town or a village across the street, 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.000 and they're not trying to hide it with any fences 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.160 or anything like that, or green tarps or anything. It's 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:18.320 just it's there. Embrace it. It's all ye know, kind 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.079 of like we're doing at Canal Shores. It's all just 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.120 part of the community. 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:27.880 Yeah, I think, to echo what you said, Brian, the 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.360 biggest thing that I took away is that it's just 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:35.120 simple and accessible and fun and golf is a part 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.400 of the community, or at least that was my perception, 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:40.679 you know, spending two weeks there. I'm not going to 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:44.480 pretend like I'm an expert of what happens in England 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:48.040 and Scotland. But you know, the other thing I would 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:49.959 like to just say is when you go there and 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:55.560 you see the links land, you get it. It just 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.240 makes sense, like you can see why golf evolved there 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:04.040 and see why they're able to have great golf with 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:08.200 not high inputs. And you know, it's not to say 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.160 that we all, you know, as superintendents, we strive to 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:15.560 be minimal and you know, good with our budgets and 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.760 produce firm conditions. But when you go there and you 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.880 realize they're on sand, they can grow fescue, it doesn't 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:23.640 grow very much. They don't have to mow it, they 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.080 don't have to double cut things that you know, they 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.480 literally dig into the side of a dune for sand 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:32.960 to top dress. You know, these types of things. It 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.480 just makes sense. You know. I will reflect on one thing, 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.280 before we really saw a links golf course, or before 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.520 we walked one, we pulled up to this castle, Bambrea 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.560 Castle and Brian and are like, holy crap, look at 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:49.760 this freaking castle. It's been here like five hundred years. 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:51.440 And you turn around and you look toward the ocean 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:54.640 and there's just all this dune's land that's not a 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.240 golf course, but you just look at it and you're like, 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.520 that should be a golf course. You know, great terrain, 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.960 small level areas, features that look like bunkers that aren't bunkers. 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:09.400 They're just there. And so that's my biggest take home. 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:11.800 It just makes sense there. And we sort of impose 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.040 our American will on the game, and in some cases 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:16.440 I think we've made it a little bit less fun 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.360 and a little bit less accessible unfortunately. 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.720 So as you were tripping around over there, did you 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.080 stay incognito or did you actually reach out to the 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.160 greenkeepers the courses that you played and interact with them? 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.000 Yeah, we kind of. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.520 My trip was early and they saw the golf late, 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.880 so I wasn't with these guys. But for us, yeah, 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.040 we reached out to the course managers. 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:42.840 And at North Barrick and at St Andrews. 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.200 They gave us a tour around the facility and walked 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:46.400 the course with us. 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.920 And then when I was with Scott, we're just incognito 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:51.640 the whole time. 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.840 What was the coolest thing you saw over there? Whether 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.640 it be a hole, a you know, feature, or you know, 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.400 just something you picked up, like, what was like one 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:04.000 thing that will stick with you? 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.240 Well, the one cool thing is all the walls and 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.280 how they all on each course. There's a wall that'll 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.920 come into play, whether it's you know, out of bounds 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.240 or it's something that you have to go and hit 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.240 over to access a green. Another part of the fairway. 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.760 You know, it wasn't taken out, it was just there 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:22.200 was a wall that was about a hundred years old. 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:23.920 They just went and left it there and they go 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:26.880 and go and use it. I think that was cool. 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.960 And just a lot of small little bumps and things 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:33.200 like that that can go and add so much to 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:36.920 a hole. And it's a really simplistic approach. 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:43.360 Yeah, I think to echo what you said again, you know, 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.800 all the stuff, A lot of the things like at 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.200 North Barrack for instance, that make it so awesome is 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:54.960 the fact that they didn't have you know, Cat three 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:59.920 fifties and land levelers to completely smooth out the ground 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.520 and to remove anything that wasn't actually the golf course. 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.960 They just sort of incorporated what was there into the 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.120 golf course. So there's walls and big humps and bumps 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.840 that you would never expect. And you know, maybe with 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:18.480 the exception of sort of this renaissance of old school design, 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:21.400 you know, in the past fifteen twenty years or however 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.840 long it's been going on in the United States, we 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.560 see those as imperfections and we work really hard to 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.200 make everything smooth and perfect and a single plane. And 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.920 it's I realized after seeing the links Land golf courses 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.840 that that's really what gives them character and that you know, 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.480 it's just what makes it cool. The golf course is 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:42.840 just on the land that was there. 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.720 Yeah, And I just think, you know, with with the 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:52.200 modern architecture currently, I mean, what's going on over there 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.440 on those links land courses is kind of what they're 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:58.800 trying to emulate with the subtleties and the imperfections within 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.040 the fair ways, and you know, they just it just 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.880 happened there. And you know all the courses being built now, 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.720 you know that are primarily on sand is. You know 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.840 they're trying to duplicate that in one way or another. 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:12.160 It's pretty interesting. 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.840 But those those green complexes at North Barrick just blew 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.240 me away, Like I could play golf there every day 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:19.680 and never get bored of it. 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.160 That's what I hear from a lot of people. I 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:27.680 need to get over there, Jason, have you Ben? So 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:32.800 you guys have each taken significant undertaken it significant restoration 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.120 work at each of your club's golden age courses. So 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:40.320 Scott you're at a Allison course, Brian Palmer you're at 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:44.080 a Rainer course, and Brian Moore you're at a Flynt course, 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:49.160 some say Colt and Ross course. Many lots of speculation 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:53.080 as to what the true lineage is there, what's been 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:57.120 the most rewarding part of the work that you guys 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:59.880 have done getting it back towards what it was close 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:00.800 to opening day. 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:07.880 Like I mean, for me, you know, I'll first say that, 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:13.400 you know, I my career, it's it's only really recently 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.800 and since this project that I've really gotten interested in 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:21.320 golf architecture. I didn't grow up a architecture fanatic or anything. 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.600 I just played the courses that were there and you know, 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.480 didn't really think much of it. And what's really interesting 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:31.800 to me is to appreciate the history, but then just 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:37.520 how how much little details are so important. You know, 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:39.720 grass lines. I'm sure we'll talk about grass lines at 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:42.920 some point, but you know, just putting in the extra 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.360 effort to get the grass lines right for us made 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.000 a huge difference. And then really the to answer, to 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:53.000 truly answer your question, what's most rewarding, it's just having 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.040 people see the work, and not that it's all mine, 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.480 you know, it's our crew and Urbina and the shapers, 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.040 but and just to see their appreciation and for them 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.560 to not know why necessarily it's so much better, but 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.320 they see the new golf course or that, you know, 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.040 the renovated golf course versus what it was, and they 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.000 immediately find that it's more fun and they have more 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:15.639 fun playing and you know, they enjoy it. 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:20.520 So with you getting into architecture more recently, what have 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:24.440 you done to kind of like learn about Golden Age 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.119 architecture and how has it changed the way you do 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.200 your job on a daily basis. 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:32.480 Well, you know, quite honestly, I don't know that it 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:34.960 necessarily changes the way I do my job on a 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:39.080 daily basis, but it it It just I just try 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.320 to think about things in a different way. And you 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.440 know what I've done is I've you know, taking taken 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.000 the opportunity to go on trips like to the UK, 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:50.919 and I try to read you know, I'm not going 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.120 to say that I've read every architecture book, but websites 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.920 like Jason's and yours and Golf Club Atlasts and you know, 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.840 I just try to take in information and see how 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.600 it's applicable to what we do at Bobblink, you know, 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:06.840 because I think, you know, one thing we always say, 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.120 or I always say to our crew is we're either 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.560 getting better we're getting worse. There's no staying the same. 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.000 And you know, if we can use some of the information, 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:18.800 you know, we have, like there's so much information available 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:20.359 right now. You know, you don't have to go to 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.200 the library and dig to find out things about Golden 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:25.359 Age architects. It's it's everywhere. You just type it in 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.440 Google and you know there's information everywhere, so it's really 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.920 easy to learn things. 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.560 Yeah, I think that for the other restoration at Short Acres, 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:39.400 it was really just there wasn't one sort of as 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.919 like as a singular sort of moment, or if it 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:44.760 wasn't the bunkers or teas or anything like that. It's 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.720 really just when the members were able to see it 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:52.560 grown in and see how much it really resembles what 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:54.880 it looked like in the oldest aerial in nineteen thirty seven, 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:56.840 I think everyone just just kind of got it. It's the 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:01.359 aha moment that it's changed and it's changed for the better. 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.280 We Andy and I and people like us obviously love 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:12.159 to go down rabbit holes of geekery. I'm kind of 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.399 curious to know, I mean, just before and after shots 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.280 of the work that's been done at your respective courses. Obviously, 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.520 I would have to assume ninety nine people out of 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.760 one hundred think it's significantly better. 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:25.359 Do they care to know. 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.639 Why or are they just happy to know, Wow, this 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:31.439 is better than it was before. They What level of 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.560 interest do they have in the thinking that goes into 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:35.320 making decisions big and small. 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:38.960 I think it varies. I mean, you've got some people 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:41.240 that want to know why and other people that. 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:47.040 Don't. Really they're just there to play golf. But yeah, I. 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:50.680 Think you know, the people that maybe don't necessarily understand 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.600 why you did something, when you have that opportunity to 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:55.600 describe it to them and tell them why, you know, 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:57.960 it's kind of like that aha moment. Okay, yeah, I 0:19:58.000 --> 0:19:59.080 get it, it makes sense. 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:06.000 So yeah, I don't think that that there's a huge 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:09.560 part of the membership of any club that that really 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:11.200 we'll go and get into it like that, But there 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.280 is that handful that you know, you know, they'll ask 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:17.040 questions in quizya and being at short Akers, which is obviously, 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:18.480 like you said, a Rainer, and having a lot of 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.760 temple holes, and having a lot of members that will 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.199 go play other places. It's when they go and they 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.480 play another Rainer and come back and then they have questions, 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:28.840 and I think that's that's the best. You know, It's 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.600 when each year. We have interns and I take them 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:33.880 to Chicago Golf Club or go to Blue Mount. I'm 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:36.280 trying to teach them about template holes and all that 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:37.600 sort of stuff, and they kind of look at me 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:39.879 like I'm a crazy man, and then we go there 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:42.800 and by like the second te they're like, Okay, I 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.480 get it now. So I think that there's a little 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:46.840 bit of that too. 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:51.360 I would say buy and large. The typical golfer, typical 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:56.040 member or golfer in general does not, and hopefully it's changing. 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.000 But I don't think they really know or care that 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:00.960 much about really what makes it. Architects are good. They 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:04.359 just know that certain courses they play they have more fun, 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.280 and certain courses they play and it's not as much fun. 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:11.080 And so, you know, we have a very small percentage 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:17.119 I would say at Bobblink that really have gone down 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:19.520 a rabbit hole to learn about Alison or to learn 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:21.159 why we did what we did. They just know that 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:24.879 the conditions are much better. They have more fun when 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:27.480 they're out there. You know, their guests that they bring 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:30.440 are happier. You know, it's just they just want to 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.200 go and play, and that's that's cool. I think that's 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:35.719