WEBVTT - Snowflake Doppelganger 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.920 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:14.080 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to stuff Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.520 My name is Robert Lamps, and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.520 what crosses your mind when you look at a snowy landscape? 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.080 You know, whether we're talking an actual in person visit 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:25.759 to a winter wonderland or you just looking at say 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:28.639 an old Peter Brugle painting of a of a snow 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:33.000 colored medieval landscape. Oh, an old Pete medieval landscape. Um, 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.640 I think just obviously about the season. I don't think 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.000 about the collective power of the ice crystals within. I 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.520 just look at the the effect of the collective and 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:45.199 how beautiful it is. Yeah, the most you're probably gonna say, 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:46.879 look at all that snow. You're not gonna say, look 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.239 at those snow flakes. Imagine how many there are. Imagine 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:55.000 how many little bits of crystallized water have contributed to this, uh, 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.800 this overall picture before us. Yeah, particularly if you're in 0:00:57.840 --> 0:00:59.320 the Midwest right now and you're getting a bunch of 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:01.320 snow dumped on you and you have to shovel all that, 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:04.759 you're probably not thinking about the majesty of these tiny 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:09.160 little geometric crystal kingdoms within. Yeah, you're not celebrating the snowflake. 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.520 I feel like, yeah, here here in the South. I've 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.080 always lived in places where there's snow, but definitely in 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:17.000 the South and like Tennessee and Georgia, I've lived in 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.160 places where the snow is rare enough to where you 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.280 can get excited about it when it's not there and 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:25.280 also make little cardboard snowflakes that end up going on 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.080 the you know, the kindergarten wall. Yeah, I mean it's 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.000 something you're right in the South. It's like, you know, 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.840 whenever snowflake comes tumbling down from the sky. But we're 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:38.120 going to take this sort of powers of ten approach today. 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.120 We're gonna try to get um from the macro to 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.920 the micro and really get into snowflakes and whether or 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:48.480 not they are unique each snowflake, Is it unique? And 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:53.120 what if anything it has to do with ripparologists and 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.080 all sorts of other things. All Right, so it begs 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.200 a question what is a snowflake? Again, It's easy to 0:01:58.200 --> 0:01:59.920 take it for granted, to forget there there or did 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.440 not think about them at all. It's just this funny, 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:05.160 little beautiful shape that falls from the sky and it's 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:06.760 made out of ice, and it piles up and forms 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.320 a lot of snow. But but but when you stop 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:12.959 and ask yourself, how does it form, Well, it's a 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.600 little more complicated. Then it all begins with a little 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:18.680 tiny speck of dust. Yeah, this is a possible hexagon 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.839 based scenario. I mean, first, you have to have temperatures 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:25.160 at thirty two degrees fahrenheit or lower in a cloud 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:30.120 for water vapor to attach to that little dust grain. Yeah. 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:32.920 That's also known as a condensation nuclei because this is 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:35.400 going to form the heart of everything that grows out 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:38.320 from it, Yeah, which then crystallizes into ice. And once 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.639 it does this, a prism forms with six faces and 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:43.760 a top in the bottom. And if you guys can 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.320 sort of imagine all that in your brain, You've got 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:50.079 the top and the bottom and each has a side, 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.959 six sides right, and a cavity forms in each prism 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.320 face where ice grows fastest, and then six branches sprout, 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.919 forming that hexagon. Now, where it's going to go from 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:05.400 there depends again on the conditions in that cloud, because 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.360 the vapor content is really important in terms of how 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:13.239 that snowflake might grow. In size, in shape, and also 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:15.399 again the climate. So if it if you know, things 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.800 get warm, then you get a different shape from that 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.720 ice crystal. But if things freeze up, like say high 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:24.800 altitude sears cloud might produce, then you get that doily 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.920 effect that really intricate beautiful snowflake falling down. Yeah, I 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:30.440 was reading about when they when they fall through the 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.400 warmer air, their slower growth. But there's a there's a 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:36.520 there's widening that occurs. So and as we've discussed before, 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.160 I mean, you can even have red snow in some cases, 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.160 this blood snow that is that has been seen to 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:45.120 fall uh in various places throughout history. The idea being 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:46.680 here that little speck of dust at the center of 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.520 it all is red in color and therefore dictate the 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:53.640 overall color of the snow. That would be just wonderful 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.360 to have, like red snowflakes, wouldn't it be terrifying? But 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:04.040 red Christmas? Yeah, I'm dreaming bloody Christmas. All right. So 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:08.120 here's the thing. A tiny snowflake could actually affect the climate. 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:11.440 Not on a huge scale here, but Hands Berlin, Associate 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.360 Professor of Meteeralogy at Penn State, says that quote serious 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.040 clouds are known to play a large role in energy 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:23.080 budget enhanced climate. The molecular level processes determine the shape 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.599 of the ice crystals, which then determine the characteristics of 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:31.400 the clouds themselves, which control the radiative properties of clouds 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.720 and the role of serrus in climate. Yeah, I mean, 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:36.240 it's the And these guys should know. They have an 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.320 awesome job. They're snowflake designers. They use the Penn State 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:43.000 cloud chamber to to explore ice crystal growth in a 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.560 in this environment that's designed to mimic the conditions that 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.560 are similar to serious cloud environments. Yeah, and as she 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:54.720 said that the actual cloud chamber and they inject you know, 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:56.720 a little bit of vapor and there, and it's fascinating 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.280 to watch. Now, you know, the idea that little something 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.400 is insignificant seeming as a as a snow crystal could 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.080 and lead to fast changes in effect climate. It's interesting 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.080 because it's you know, very much that idea of the 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:11.760 butterfly effect. And of course the butterfly effect has its 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.520 heart in chaos theory, which actually stems for meteorology and 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.240 trying to figure out what is going to happen with 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.680 the weather at any given time, and as we look 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.920 into the future, there's so many factors in in our 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.400 in our weather, in our climate, in our atmosphere, and 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.960 the smallest thing does having enormous repercussions. Yeah, as the 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:33.760 butterfly wings in this butterfly effect theory would dictate. Right, 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.440 at least that's the idea behind it. But what we 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:40.400 really want to get to is is the snowflake unique? 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:42.760 Does it have a doppel gang or does it have 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:44.760 a double out there? When we hear about this all 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:48.080 the time, each snowflake is unique and beautiful. Yeah, it's 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.880 it's something we we hear growing up because the the 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:54.440 obvious analogy to grow to draw there is not only 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:58.080 is the snowflake unique and beautiful, but you are unique 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.880 and beautiful. You are one of a kind. You, darling child, 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.080 are unique and beautiful and there's no one else on 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.440 this world like you. And as we grow older, we 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.800 kind of realized that, yes, that is true, but it's 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.800 not as true as your your mom may have made 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:14.880 it out to be when you were younger. You're like, 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.400 I I am distinctive, I am unique, but I might 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.200 be a type. Yeah, if you've ever auditioned for for 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.280 any kind of an acting gig, or really, if you 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.040 if you've ever uh you know, gone after any job 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.520 and uh and and had a glimpse of the other 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:30.640 people going for the position, then you begin to realize, 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.840 all right, I may be a unique snowflake, but there 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.640 are similar snowflakes, and they are my enemies, right, and 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:40.679 I'm sure that other snowflakes look at each other like that. Um. 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:44.880 But yeah, on a molecular level, a snowflake, Verlin says, 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.120 could be unique. And he says, let's be specific here 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.719 and define a snowflake first of all as a single 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.160 vapor grim crystal. And then he says that he would 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:56.040 say with a great deal of confidence that all crystals 0:06:56.080 --> 0:07:00.240 are different on this molecular level purely because there are different, says, 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.039 in the atomic structure of the atoms making up the 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:07.720 water molecule, and hence in the water molecules themselves. Yeah, yeah, 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.120 very basic level. And it's it's the same as the 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.680 fact that me and the other person going after the 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:16.600 same job we're composed of different atoms, where we're different 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:20.160 things on a very physical, uh molecular level. But visually 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.280 Verylin would say no, because there are only so many 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:27.080 types of snowflakes out there or shapes. Yeah, and especially 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.400 the case when you look at snowflakes in the early 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:33.400 stages of their development. The earlier the snowflake is, the 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:37.080 younger the snowflake is, the more possibility that you're gonna 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.800 have repetition. And then as the snowflake develops over time, 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:45.240 you know, imagine again the branching occurring, and the and 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:47.640 the changes occurring as it goes through these the varying 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:53.239 degrees of heat and cold. As time passes, there's less 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.280 likelihood that you're gonna have deuvils. But there but but still, 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:58.320 they're gonna have snowflakes that look a lot alike, at 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.840 least to the macro level. Right, You're not gonna have 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:05.120 pentagon an octagon shaped snowflakes. First of all. Let's just 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.480 get that. Ever cut one of those out in a 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:11.240 class school project, it's a complete lie. Does don't exist? Yeah, pretty, 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.600 but don't exist. Um, And you will probably have the hexagon, right, 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.520 that's pretty much like the bass structure here. And there 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:21.160 are triangular snowflakes, and most people think about those is 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.680 more like trying to find a four leaf clover, but 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:25.480 they turned out to be more common than we thought. 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.720 In the study Aerodynamic Stability and the Growth of Triangular 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:33.280 snow Crystals, co authors Kenneth Librect and Hannah Arnold described 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:37.080 the process as tiny impurities such as dust particles, can 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:40.000 cause one edge of the falling snowflake to tilt up 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.600 as it falls. The snowflakes sides that are pointed down 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.720 grow faster as the wind blows by, leading to a 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:51.959 stable triangular pattern which remains triangular despite any later bumps 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.640 as it falls, which is kind of fascinating a little 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:57.880 bit of aerodynamics going on here. We were looking at 0:08:57.920 --> 0:08:59.880 some of the various shapes that these snowflakes take on 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.480 on and it's it's it's really a rich and very 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:06.400 uh the world of of snowflakes that we often take 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:09.280 completely for granted. I mean, because at heart we're talking 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.720 about crystal formation. And like in the world of crystals, 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.679 there's the human idea of crystals, the crystals that humans 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.800 carve naturally occurring crystals into so they can put it 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.040 on a ring or pinan or whatever, and then there 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.800 is that the rich world of actual crystal formation, which, 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:25.920 if you know, start doing a Google image search, you 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.000 just go down the rabbit hole at all these different forms. 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.240 And the same can be said at the snowflakes you see. 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.719 I mean some of them look more like like you're 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.120 looking at a bacteria or something, or some sort of 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:39.520 strange um tip for a medical device. Yeah, machine parts. 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.880 I love these. Most people think about their radiating dendrites. 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.480 Those are the ones that have the six branches with 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:48.600 tiny little branches coming off of it. But there are 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:52.240 some amazing things like the scrolls on plates is a 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.080 type of snowflake, and within that you see all sorts 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:58.120 of different variations. And then you see the piling on 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.400 of ice crystals, like the apped columns kind of look 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.360 like a I guess you like a bolt. And if 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.520 you look at like those big those big spools that 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:11.120 good wire comes on and that sometimes becomes a coffee 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.800 table and bachelors. My parents had one of this. But yeah, 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.920 you will see if you look under an electron microscope, 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.480 you will see the ice crystals on top of that 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:24.640 six sided plate on the very top, and it's just amazing. 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:29.120 They really are these crystal kingdoms of ice. Yeah, the 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:33.719 there's one that particular shape called capped bullets that if 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:36.440 you if you created this or drew this in you know, 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:38.920 like a second grade classroom, and called it a snowflake, 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:40.760 I have a feeling a lot of teachers would give 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.959 you an f. But because it looks like three crystal 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:48.080 shards joined at the point it does, it doesn't even 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:51.000 look real, you know. But but at the at the 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.160 at the micro level, this is how crystals formed together. 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.600 This is one of the many structures they can take on. Yeah, 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.840 and we'll try to um to post on this so 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:01.120 that you guys have a vision a little reference to this. 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:02.840 But if you wanted to look cut up, you could 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.440 just say electron microscopes snowflakes and you will see just 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:10.800 amazing imagery of this stuff. All Right, we're gonna break 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:20.840 and when we come back, more snowflakes. All right, we're back, 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.360 And I should point out that designer snowflakes are possible. Uh. 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.400 Cal Tech researchers have created flakes in the laboratory using 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:31.320 electric needles placed in a diffusion chamber. In this good situation, 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:35.200 the crystals grow on the needle's tip, and by altering 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.040 the conditions of scientists are able to create different sizes 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:42.880 and patterns of snowflakes, some uh, perhaps unnatural shapes for snowflakes. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:44.760 I mean, that's got to be one of the best 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:49.559 jobs ever then and just yeah, I make I make snowflakes. 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:53.200 That yeah. And and again, as we discussed earlier, when 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:56.640 we're talking about pen States cloud chamber. Um, when by 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:00.640 studying crystal formations in snowflakes, I mean we're we're getting 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:04.880 down to some of the fine details of the overwhelming 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.959 movements of climate. That's right, all these tiny little things 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.600 that make up climate. And we will discuss this in 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:14.280 a bit. There's also this idea that snowflakes can inform 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.080 us about the universe. But first we have got to 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:22.199 talk about what snowflakes have to do with rip parologists. Yes, now, 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.440 this is this is pretty fabulous stuff. And this idea 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:29.200 comes to us from Alan Moore, who who wrote the 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:33.560 amazing graphic novel from Hell Uh all black and white, 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.800 big thick graphic novel about the Ripper murders, and it's 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.600 it's really a great work of literature. If you haven't 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.720 read it, uh, it deals with a lot of feminist issues. 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.760 It deals with some of the grizzly details of the case, 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:51.360 and in the epilogue, Alan Moore talks about the idea 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.599 of the the Cox snowflake to illustrate his point about ripparologists. 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:00.880 That's right. He compares the multitude of increasingly outland ripper 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.199 theories to what is known as a cock snowflake, or 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.680 a finite fixed location event and error. In this case, 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:13.520 London late can have an infinite number of nooks and crannies. Yeah. 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:15.960 So with the with the actual fractal idea of the 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.160 cock snowflake, this is what happens. You start with a 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:20.640 triangle and then you remove the inner third of each side, 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:24.320 building another triangle at the location where the side was removed. 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:26.400 So now you have a star instead of a kind 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.679 of like a star of David exactly. Yeah, and then 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:32.400 you repeat this process indefinitely. The snowflake does not grow 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:36.160 in size, but it grows in complexity. So Moore's point 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.199 in all of this is that there's only so much 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.560 about the Ripper murders that we know. There's only so 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.760 much at this point that we will ever know for sure. 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.240 I mean, unless we actually develop a means of traveling 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:52.320 back in time and spying on what happened. Uh, that's 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:54.319 not going to happen, so that there's a set amount 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:59.200 of information. So the Ripper story as we know it 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:04.559 will never expand beyond a certain threshold, but the complexity 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:08.080 that we throw at it, that that can grow. So 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:09.520 so the idea is that there are only so many 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.200 facts that we have, and ripparologists those you know, they're 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.600 obsessed with figuring out exactly who did it, why they 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.679 did it, what kind of complex plots were involved, the 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.320 d crafting intricate theory after theory, while our actual knowledge 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.040 on the incident never expands beyond it, beyond what is 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.040 currently known. I was just thinking about that in terms 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.560 of conspiracy theory in general, and I was thinking about 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.480 big folts. We recently talked about Yetti and Bigfoot. In 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.080 the idea there is patterns, right, and seeing patterns, and 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.600 we've talked about this whole lot with cognitive bias and 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:41.840 all sorts of conspiracy theorists. But the overlaying of patterns 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.480 and the symmetry in the in the cock snowflake, this fractal. 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.680 But again, what you're doing is, you know, every time 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:53.880 you put on another equal lateral triangle, it yields another space, 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.560 and it's an infinite perimeter to just begin into putting 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.560 on that same pattern right, that layering of that same 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:04.040 equilateral triangle. So it's interesting, and I just want to 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:09.080 point out to that the Cox snowflake is actually named 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:14.360 after Swedish mathematician and his name is Niels Fabian von 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.640 Koch who identified one of the earliest NEWN fractals. Here. Yeah, 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:20.680 it's a ko c H if you want to check 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:24.040 that out. Um. Now, you're probably listening to that, and 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.120 you're you're thinking, well that you're also talking about a 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.800 creative process here. You sort of you have a set 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:32.400 amount of information and then you're just plowing forward with 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.040 all this complexity and making the existing information more and 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:36.720 more complex in the way it relates to each other. 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:41.920 And indeed you will find snowflake novel writing methods out 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:43.840 there on the internet, which I've always found interesting. I 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.040 haven't really ever tried to employ one, but I like 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.480 the idea. And the idea is you start with a 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.040 simple idea. You start with your your basic outline, you 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:54.120 know you're and then you expand it, you create a 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.040 snowflake out of it. Um. You know, you can think 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.720 of various novels that sort of occupy the same space 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.200 that if very basic level, I mean, how many fantasy, 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:04.680 epic fantasy novels sound more or less the same, how 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.320 many detective novels sound more or less the same. And 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.120 to a certain extent, it's all been done before, right 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.440 where it where stuff differentiates from the next book and 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:15.840 the next book is in the details, is in the 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:19.560 the the the intricate nature of the snowflake. Even if 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.320 our existing literature and it is really only only gonna 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.440 occupy the same space, It's not going to expand beyond 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.480 its current threshold. Well, you know, as a fiction writer 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:31.840 who comes to the blank page with a cacophony of ideas, 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.520 I find that really seductive, this idea that you just 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:38.840 create this triangle, this simple triangle of the plot, and 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:40.880 then you begin to just fill it out from there, 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:43.240 and that way you can sort of tame some of 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.840 the ideas, some of the thoughts and the characters that 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.880 are running around in your head. Yeah, you know, it 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.920 brings me back to the whole idea, right, what you know? Right, 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.800 so there's a fixed amount of what I know. It 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:57.760 comes down to how you implement what you know and 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.240 how you how you range it on the page and 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.960 how you create this snowflake. Uh, just to go off 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:06.440 on a tangent here for a second, I was thinking 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:07.840 about this. I was thinking, I wonder if you can 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:13.080 weave neuroscience into an actual writing class. And the reason 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:15.720 is is because as readers, we have all sorts of 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.960 neurons firing right mirror neurons as we read on the 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.240 page what the character is doing. So if the character 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.639 is weeping or playing baseball, then there are certain things 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:27.359 going on our heads that are connecting with that. And 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.480 I was thinking that one of the reasons why some 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.720 characters work in some don't is because they seem like 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:37.879 caricatures and we can't relate to them because it doesn't 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.840 feel real. It's outside of the writer's experience perhaps when 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:47.440 they're trying to render that character that's snowflake, so it's 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:49.679 you know, it would be nice to see if some 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:52.800 of the world of science could inform fiction writing. That 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.040 would be interesting, That would be interesting. Shower thoughts by 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.560 Julie Douglas. But anyway, let's get back to this, because 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.040 I think the interesting idea that um that you could 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:07.400 have this pattern making and in the sense of ripparologists 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.760 or conspiracy theories in the Coke snowflake, you'd always have 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:15.120 uncertainty no matter how much you layered it on. Yeah, 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.320 I mean, that's the remarkable thing about it is that 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:21.800 again we'll never be able to say with accuracy this 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.160 is what happened, and this is this is who is involved? 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.679 Uh we but we just keep learing on the the 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.760 complexity of our theories. I mean, you see a similar 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:35.280 thing with the assassination of jfk uh. We have the facts, 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.639 we have them arranged, and then we cannot help but 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:41.760 continue to go back and try and create a more 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:46.960 complex idea of what happened. Um. In large part I 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.560 believe is William Manchester room of this argument pointed out 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.280 that all right, we were pretty much know Oswald killed Kennedy, 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:54.639 like the end that it was just a lone gunman situation. 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:56.719 But when you compare the two, when you put them 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:01.159 on the scale, you have such a an insignificant and 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.480 easily person as Oswald on this level, and then you 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.080 have a figure like Kennedy on the other. They don't 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.480 balance out you and you would have to plut you 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.560 would have to throw more complexity onto the Oswald side 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:14.520 of the scale. To even things out to where it 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.920 kind of makes sense in a more epic sense of 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:22.000 the word, and then you're just further down the rabbit hole. Right. Yeah, 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.960 I want to make this sort of thread through snowflakes 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.760 and zen and joy, and I don't know if we'll 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.000 be able to fully get at this idea, but I 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.080 did think one of the things about snowflakes is that 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.800 when you pay attention to them, you really are paying 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.760 attention to the details of the world. You're slowing things down. 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.040 And we talked about this when we were discussing labyrinths 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:48.280 and many other topics, that you're it's a meditative process 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:51.200 and you're seeing things as they are as opposed to 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:55.080 that blueprint in your mind, just creating memory for you 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:59.439 and you know, creating your reality. Yeah, that's what I 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.480 like about this idea about snowflakes is particularly the electron 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.000 microscope when you're looking at them, because you really get 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:10.480 to see all of those nooks and crannies and that 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:14.680 that that snowflake, it is such an ephemeral object because 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.240 it's gone in seconds. Well you know, it gets frozen 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:20.919 into the uh, into a snowdrift, and then it's molecularly 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.560 changed anyway. Yeah, it's been in a state of change 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.439 its entire existence, and then it is and then it 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.280 changes again into into mire water. And so I thought, 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:33.600 this is really a good example of perhaps something called joy, 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:37.439 one of these emotions, uh that we try to figure 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.600 out and and categorize. And Zadie Smith, she's a writer. 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.520 She has a really great essay on joy, and she 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.480 goes through and she makes the distinction between pleasure and joy. 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.200 She's a pleasure is like you know, eating a popsicle 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:53.800 on a hot day and avoiding my work for seven 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:58.560 minutes while I eat the popsicle. And Joy is my 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:03.000 child who is a pleasure. Um, she says, though mostly 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:05.479 she's a joy, which means, in fact, she gives us 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:09.359 not much pleasure at all, but rather that strange admixture 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.240 of terror pain into light that have come to recognize 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.040 as joy and now must find some way to live 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.600 with daily. And I thought, that is that is a 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:22.200 in a sense of snowflake, because that's it's it's going 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:24.159 to be gone. And anyway, she goes on and on 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:30.040 about joy and parenting and uh, just the the existence 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:32.320 of life. Really that that is a beautiful way of 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:34.320 looking at it, and I can certainly relate to that, 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:37.080 having recently become a parent myself, that parenting is not 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:41.560 a a seven minute experience with a popsicle. It is. 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:44.920