Speaker 1: Every time I hear Peace Corps.
Speaker 2: I have no idea why, but I always think about
Speaker 2: Cat Stevens Peace Train.
Speaker 1: On the peace Train.
Speaker 3: I think of the Frank Zeppa song who Needs the
Speaker 3: Peace Corps?
Speaker 1: Oh, kind of relevant to what we're talking about today.
Speaker 2: Play the song. I'm investigative journalist Jason Leopold. I spend
Speaker 2: most of my days getting documents from the government.
Speaker 3: I'm attorney Matt Tapik, and I fight them in court
Speaker 3: to open their files when they don't want to. From
Speaker 3: Bloomberg and no smiling, this is Disclosure, a podcast about
Speaker 3: buying a loose government secrets, the Freedom of Information Act,
Speaker 3: and the unexpected places that takes us.
Speaker 2: So, man, I just want to give you a heads up.
Speaker 2: I'm in the office today, but we may be interrupted
Speaker 2: by a fire drill, which means that I will immediately
Speaker 2: have to exit the office. This is not like I'm
Speaker 2: in high school where I'm like fire drill, I'm gone,
Speaker 2: no need to return to school. Oh you just went home, then,
Speaker 2: I like it. Yeah, I went home. Here, I actually
Speaker 2: have to come back to the office. But in the meantime,
Speaker 2: we've got Peace Corps to talk about. So back in April,
Speaker 2: I saw a headline DOJE eyes cuts to Peace Corps
Speaker 2: with in person visit and records access, and I was
Speaker 2: like DOGE at the Peace Corps as far as I
Speaker 2: was concerned. Two months into the Trump administration, you can
Speaker 2: never ask too many questions about what DOGE was up to.
Speaker 2: Basically what I started out doing just I don't know.
Speaker 2: A week after Trump was sworn in as president, I
Speaker 2: immediately began covering Elon Musk and the Department of Government Efficiency.
Speaker 3: DOGE the government is just like the DMV that got big.
Speaker 2: When you say this's have the government do something something,
Speaker 2: you should think.
Speaker 1: Do you want the DMV to do it?
Speaker 3: I've instructed him to go check out education, to check
Speaker 3: out the Pentagon, which is the military.
Speaker 2: So I was following DOGE at this time, and also
Speaker 2: following the individuals who worked with DOGE, young men and
Speaker 2: women in tech, many who had work from US. And
Speaker 2: what they were doing was season control of these agencies
Speaker 2: to essentially dismantle the agencies under the banner of efficiency.
Speaker 3: The administration, and we believe, driven largely by Elen Musk's priorities,
Speaker 3: really took a sledgehamber to the work we're doing.
Speaker 1: This is the chainsaw of bureaucracy.
Speaker 2: Early targets were the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, Department of Education,
Speaker 2: the Department of Defense, and especially foreign aid programs programs
Speaker 2: like the US Agency for an International Development USAID. In February,
Speaker 2: DOGE went in there, and again, when I say Doze,
Speaker 2: you have to think of it as four or five kids.
Speaker 1: They called them the Doge kits. They were in their twenties,
Speaker 1: have zero experience working.
Speaker 2: In government, went into USAID, took over the agency, and
Speaker 2: they gained access to the data. They got a list
Speaker 2: of all the contracts, They fired staff, and essentially, piece
Speaker 2: by piece, just dismantled this entire agency that's been around
Speaker 2: for decades.
Speaker 1: DOSEE cut more.
Speaker 2: Than eighty percent of USAID programs, basically overnight, programs for
Speaker 2: HIV and AIDS, treatment and prevention, malaria, child healthcare gone.
Speaker 2: Thousands of grants and contracts were halted or completely terminated.
Speaker 2: And now we're getting an idea that these moves at
Speaker 2: USAID are already having a life and death.
Speaker 1: Impact around the world.
Speaker 2: One group Impact Counter estimates that the program cuts have
Speaker 2: already resulted in more than six hundred thousand deaths around
Speaker 2: the world, including more than four hundred thousand children, and
Speaker 2: this dismantling took place over weekends, right when no one
Speaker 2: was working at these agencies, and there's so much secrecy
Speaker 2: around DOGE. So I decided I want to find out
Speaker 2: what's going on behind the scenes. And then I saw
Speaker 2: this headline in the Guardian on April fourth. Think about it,
Speaker 2: it's the Piece Corps. It wasn't like DOGE is going
Speaker 2: into the NSA. It was just like really going into
Speaker 2: the Peace Corps, Like what's going on there?
Speaker 3: So the very next day, on April fifth, I filed
Speaker 3: this request with Peace Corps.
Speaker 1: And you have to remember, let's just go back to April.
Speaker 2: It seems like a long time ago, but the public
Speaker 2: really wasn't getting an opportunity to visualize what a visit
Speaker 2: from DOGE more or less entailed. I mean we kind
Speaker 2: of heard bits and pieces of it. You know, they
Speaker 2: were going into the agencies and demanding data, but really
Speaker 2: what was happening behind the scenes, and I kind of
Speaker 2: wanted to capture that through through documents.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and DOGE transparency is an issue that manifests itself
Speaker 3: in lots of different places. I mean, they were taking
Speaker 3: the position that they're not subject to FOYA because they're
Speaker 3: within the Executive Office the President, and you know that
Speaker 3: would largely let them operate in secret while having let's
Speaker 3: just call it, a significant impact on the federal government exactly.
Speaker 3: So I asked for a whole bunch of different records.
Speaker 2: I wanted to get a list of all the DOGE
Speaker 2: employees who are onboarded at Peace Corps. One reason for that,
Speaker 2: by the way, is that other than a few names,
Speaker 2: the identities of those who were connected to DOGE was
Speaker 2: a secret, so journalists were kind of scrambling to figure
Speaker 2: out who these people were. I asked for a list
Speaker 2: of all the words that were banned or prohibited or
Speaker 2: restricted from being used at Peace Corps in response to
Speaker 2: Trump's DEI executive order, any requests for data that DOGE
Speaker 2: had sought, all communications that reference DOGE.
Speaker 3: So what kind of records did you get?
Speaker 2: So it didn't take that long for the agency to respond,
Speaker 2: but I entered into a negotiation with them, something that
Speaker 2: I don't often do, Matt, as you know, because I
Speaker 2: wanted to get some records quickly, so I narrowed the
Speaker 2: request a bit. I told them that I would accept
Speaker 2: these rolling releases right where they can send me documents
Speaker 2: every month, and so the first batch of records I
Speaker 2: received there were fifty four pages of emails from about
Speaker 2: mid February to mid April. And what I got was
Speaker 2: a really great snapshot of what it's like to be
Speaker 2: inside of an agency waiting for Doge.
Speaker 3: Oh, waiting for Goo Doge. So where do we start.
Speaker 3: Let's go back to February.
Speaker 2: The Peace Corps headquarters in Washington, DC is a glassy
Speaker 2: mid rise in NOMA. Its facade or rippling curtain of
Speaker 2: windows inside. I imagine staffers who keep the organization's global
Speaker 2: volunteer programs running are following front page news closely as
Speaker 2: Doge descends on agencies all around them.
Speaker 3: Breaking news are the future of the US Agency for
Speaker 3: International Development.
Speaker 2: Less than two miles away. On February first, USAID's website
Speaker 2: goes dark and staff emails shut down. Staffers were told
Speaker 2: not to come into work today at the agency's DC headquarters.
Speaker 2: Nine days later, just down the street from USAID, professors.
Speaker 3: Gather outside the CFPB's headquarters in DC.
Speaker 2: DOSE shuttered the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau headquarters and demanded
Speaker 2: employees stay home.
Speaker 1: Do you hear everybody in the background? Let us LART
Speaker 1: Doge's engine closer. They're going to put an epa'll put.
Speaker 2: On February twelfth, landing at the Environmental Protection Agency, and
Speaker 2: now it's February fourteenth, Valentine's Day.
Speaker 1: An email goes out.
Speaker 2: To Peace Corps staffers, and for the first time, doche.
Speaker 1: Has entered inboxes at the Peace Corps.
Speaker 2: Not literally, this is just the first email about Doge
Speaker 2: according to my records. I mean, it kind of cracked
Speaker 2: me up a bit because the subject line says Matt,
Speaker 2: Welcome Team exercise, and it says team, we will be
Speaker 2: running an exercise of our Welcome Team SOP, meaning standard
Speaker 2: operating procedure. You will be contacted at some point during
Speaker 2: the exercise two simulate the convening of the team to
Speaker 2: welcome in simulated Doge team participants hold that hold that way.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I got to unpack this.
Speaker 3: So they know DOGE is going to come at some point, right,
Speaker 3: so they have like a designated welcome team. Okay, so
Speaker 3: not too strange. But then they're doing drills, drills.
Speaker 1: Like the fire drill that I have coming up here, Matt.
Speaker 3: It sounds like what would happen if like the head
Speaker 3: of state from another country was coming for a visit,
Speaker 3: you would have all these formal protocols and you would
Speaker 3: rehearse and all that. And that's what they're doing at
Speaker 3: the Peace Corps, getting ready for Doge to come visit.
Speaker 1: Right, that's it. I mean, it's remarkable.
Speaker 3: I guess it makes sense from the agency's perspective, like
Speaker 3: their future existence is on the line here, right, Doge
Speaker 3: maybe coming in and wiping them out, So I could
Speaker 3: see why they would be taking the visit very seriously.
Speaker 3: So who sends the email?
Speaker 1: Do we know?
Speaker 2: While all the recipients and the sender, their names are
Speaker 2: redacted under a privacy exemption, I'm not terribly interested in
Speaker 2: you in the names. But really, again, I wanted to
Speaker 2: get these records and I wanted to try to get
Speaker 2: them quickly.
Speaker 3: Okay, so you get the welcome DOGE team email. What
Speaker 3: else did you get?
Speaker 2: It's more emails about the build up to Doge's arrival.
Speaker 2: And so there's another email in here, subject line DOGE
Speaker 2: laptop preparation. I'm like, what's that about? Ooh, that's two
Speaker 2: weeks later. But this email says see below for the
Speaker 2: laptop preparation statements you requested and so there's a couple
Speaker 2: of scenarios here. It says scenario one that PC meaning
Speaker 2: Peace Corps, receives.
Speaker 3: DOGE names in advance, so if that happens, laptops will
Speaker 3: be immediately available to DOGE staff upon arrival at headquarters.
Speaker 3: All laptops will be pre configured with the identified software installed,
Speaker 3: accounts created, and acts.
Speaker 1: This is granted.
Speaker 2: Scenario two, DOJE arrives unannounced, four laptops have been set
Speaker 2: aside and pre imaged in preparation of doje's arrival. Upon
Speaker 2: receiving the names of the DOG staff, hosting services will
Speaker 2: manually create their accounts.
Speaker 1: Upon creation of their accounts, the service desk.
Speaker 2: Will immediately configure each laptop, load profiles, and install software.
Speaker 2: OCIO that's the Office of the Chief Information Officer, will
Speaker 2: require ninety minutes from a receipt of the DOGE team
Speaker 2: names to laptop prep completion.
Speaker 1: This is amazing.
Speaker 3: This is painting a picture for me not of an
Speaker 3: agency that's going to be confrontational with DOGE, but instead
Speaker 3: it's going to try to like be as accommodating as possible,
Speaker 3: I guess, presumably with the hopes that that will help
Speaker 3: them survive. Look how quick we look, we already have
Speaker 3: your laptops ready, sir.
Speaker 1: Right. To me, it's kind of a it seems like
Speaker 1: they're being compliant.
Speaker 3: This is fascinating to me because this is painting a
Speaker 3: very clear picture of the impact that DOGE is having
Speaker 3: on this particular agency. And I mean, there's whatever people
Speaker 3: say publicly, and there's there's a there's there's a line
Speaker 3: of FOYA like court decisions that sort of talk about
Speaker 3: the idea of like FOYA is really important for people
Speaker 3: to understand like what's really going on, to understand whether
Speaker 3: there's a difference between what the government is saying publicly
Speaker 3: and what the government is saying privately, and that is
Speaker 3: a core value that FOYA is supposed to be furthering.
Speaker 3: And what you've got here is, I mean, it's vividly
Speaker 3: clear how Peace Corps was viewing this, just by seeing
Speaker 3: behind the scenes, how they're preparing to deal with.
Speaker 2: It, right, and to be clear, they're not doing anything wrong,
Speaker 2: but it's like, wow, you know, look at what they
Speaker 2: are doing just to a prepare for their arrival.
Speaker 3: I think my own personal view is there is something
Speaker 3: wrong with the scenario in which agencies, instead of like
Speaker 3: doing their work, are having to obsess over these kinds
Speaker 3: of details for fear that they're just going to be
Speaker 3: promptly like wiped out. I mean, that's we ought to
Speaker 3: know that. I mean, that's a cost that is being paid.
Speaker 3: That's an agency that isn't fulfilling its mission. And you know,
Speaker 3: the people can dispute whether it's a mission that ought
Speaker 3: to be served or not, or whether it's obsolete, and
Speaker 3: whether they're doing a good job or not, or whether
Speaker 3: we should get rid of them. But the reality is
Speaker 3: that the work of Peace Corps was clearly impacted by
Speaker 3: having to deal with all this, which shouldn't be surprising,
Speaker 3: but it's very vivid to actually see that manifest itself totally.
Speaker 1: And so just about a week later, now we're in
Speaker 1: March third.
Speaker 3: Are the cherry blossoms out? This is this is the
Speaker 3: beginning of March. I think this is probably like cherry
Speaker 3: blossom time, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm visualizing it.
Speaker 2: So another email subject line DOGE Welcome Team meeting and
Speaker 2: again the sender and recipient of these emails those names
Speaker 2: are Redactive Peace Corps Welcome Team. The DOGE team has
Speaker 2: arrived at Peace Corps headquarters.
Speaker 1: This is not a drill. Please join this welcome team.
Speaker 1: Call now, Mac, this is not a drill.
Speaker 3: It's not a drill.
Speaker 1: It's not a drill. How many explanation points? No, no
Speaker 1: exclamation points, just a period.
Speaker 2: So I should say that's my emphasis, but I guess
Speaker 2: you could read it this way since there is no
Speaker 2: explanation one.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Well, by the way, speaking of drill, that is an
Speaker 3: actual fire drill that's happening right now.
Speaker 1: As this is not a drill, this is this is
Speaker 1: not a drill. I literally have to go. I gotta go.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be yelled out.
Speaker 3: Okay, I guess we're going to a break now, and
Speaker 3: he's back.
Speaker 1: Matt. Right before I had a quickly exit for a
Speaker 1: fire drill.
Speaker 2: We were talking about these emails, and I actually think
Speaker 2: the email that says this is not a drill is
Speaker 2: actually a drill because fast forwarding four days later, it
Speaker 2: says in the subject line exercise and there's like stars
Speaker 2: next to exercise.
Speaker 1: Doge team in the building.
Speaker 2: So also I said that like read I read this
Speaker 2: email as if it had exclamation points, right, and actually
Speaker 2: let me let me read it to you without the
Speaker 2: explanation points. Exercise. Exercise exercise Peace Corps Welcome Team. The
Speaker 2: DOGE team has arrived at Peace Corps headquarters. This is
Speaker 2: not a drill. Please joined this welcome team call. Now,
Speaker 2: I don't think they were ever going to be excited
Speaker 2: to have Doge. They're just like, hey, everyone, Dog is coming.
Speaker 1: This is not a drill. The leader is here. The
Speaker 1: leader is here. DOGE team is a run of the
Speaker 1: Police Corps headquarters. Okay, this is not a drill. Okay.
Speaker 2: So now we're going to jump to a March third email.
Speaker 2: This is the same day as This is not a
Speaker 2: drill email.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So the subject line of this email is DOGE access
Speaker 2: to PC systems. Now, this is just taking taking that
Speaker 2: subject line and you know, kind of building off that.
Speaker 2: That is really important because what has been presented as
Speaker 2: highly controversial is doge's access to agency data systems databases.
Speaker 2: Very is data systems. There have been stories published about
Speaker 2: dosh's access to IRS data, to data DHS and other agencies.
Speaker 2: So here is an email that says DOJE access to
Speaker 2: PC systems. The only name visible here is Joaquin Ferau.
Speaker 2: Joaquin is the Inspector General.
Speaker 1: Of the Peace Corps.
Speaker 3: The inspector, the Inspector General. He's the person, okay correct?
Speaker 2: Joaquin Ferau is the Inspector General, has worked at Peace
Speaker 2: Corps for nearly seventeen years, and the email says, Hi, Joaquin,
Speaker 2: we compile the list of PC systems and started prepping
Speaker 2: the procedures for providing access to them if and when requested.
Speaker 2: The question came up as to whether IG systems should
Speaker 2: be on that list, meaning the list of systems that
Speaker 2: DOGE can gain access to. Nonetheless, I wanted to reach
Speaker 2: out to you to determine if IG system should be
Speaker 2: included or not. To date, I have not received any
Speaker 2: guidance on how this is being handled at any agency.
Speaker 1: I appreciate your thoughts on this matter. And what so
Speaker 1: I mean?
Speaker 3: Inspectors General played, you know, a very important role, a
Speaker 3: role that is not unlike the role that DOGE was
Speaker 3: purportedly going to be playing, right, And the job of
Speaker 3: the OIG is to root out waste, fraud and corruption
Speaker 3: in the agencies that they're involved.
Speaker 1: With, right exactly.
Speaker 3: And they're the watchdogs within government agencies that investigate waste,
Speaker 3: fraud and abuse, retaliation, harassment, whistleblower complaints. So what in
Speaker 3: inspect in inspector general data sets, like what kind of
Speaker 3: stuff is going to be in there?
Speaker 1: All they're investigative files.
Speaker 2: So more than seventy government agencies have inspectors general and
Speaker 2: so they conduct investigations, they field various complaints, and they'll
Speaker 2: conduct interviews, and so the identities of whoever they conducted
Speaker 2: interviews with, or if there's any whistleblowers in there, those
Speaker 2: will be that will be part of IG files.
Speaker 3: So the concern may be that you're giving DOGE access
Speaker 3: to information about whistleblowers which might otherwise be protected or
Speaker 3: would otherwise be protected.
Speaker 1: Right exactly.
Speaker 2: But it's also important to note here that the Trump
Speaker 2: administration has fired many inspectors general since January, and the
Speaker 2: administration is no fan of oversight. They are trying to
Speaker 2: weaken IGS. So it's scrutiny for everyone else and essentially
Speaker 2: impunity for us. Right, we're going to come in and
Speaker 2: we're going to dissect everything that was happening, but for
Speaker 2: anything that happens going forward on our watch, there's no
Speaker 2: need for an inspector general to be nosed around causing trouble.
Speaker 1: Right, we can do that.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that that has any direct connection here
Speaker 2: because no response to that email, or at least if
Speaker 2: there is one, it wasn't included in our batch of records.
Speaker 2: So the next head of emails that we see March
Speaker 2: twenty fifth to twenty six, and it's the first time
Speaker 2: that we're seeing a thread from Safety and Security. The
Speaker 2: timing of this correspondence is interesting because of what's happening
Speaker 2: at the US Institute of Peace, three miles west of
Speaker 2: the Peace Corps. Dosh has been trying to take charge
Speaker 2: of another agency and one of the more unusual encounters
Speaker 2: breaking news about the Department of Government efficiency and the
Speaker 2: showdown with the US Institute of Peace. So the US
Speaker 2: Institute of Peace was created in nineteen eighty four as
Speaker 2: an independent nonprofit funded by Congress. It's sort of a
Speaker 2: nonpartisan agency for studying conflicts and how to resolve them.
Speaker 2: In the late February, an executive order branded the US
Speaker 2: Institute of Peace unnecessary and the administration wanted to dismantle it.
Speaker 1: And in mid March, around the time these Peace.
Speaker 2: Corpt emails are circulating, a bunch of board members at
Speaker 2: the US Institute of Peace are fired and there was
Speaker 2: a scuffle DOGE members accompanied by FBI agents to send
Speaker 2: on the US Peace building, but they can't get in.
Speaker 2: Two days later, FBI agents visit a security employee at
Speaker 2: home trying to get access to the US Institute of Piece.
Speaker 2: They still can't get in, and finally, on their third attempt.
Speaker 1: Doge enters the building by.
Speaker 3: Apparently threatening the federal contracts for.
Speaker 2: The outside private security firm that the Institute employees. According
Speaker 2: to Politico, and US Institute of Peace employees then call
Speaker 2: DC police.
Speaker 1: And report Doge members for unlawful entry.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this was a big deal.
Speaker 2: The cops show up and to ultimately help Doge take
Speaker 2: over the building. So this is sort of a cautionary
Speaker 2: tail for what happens to these agencies when they resist
Speaker 2: Doge's efforts.
Speaker 3: So Institute for Peace is involved in a exactly that's
Speaker 3: what it was. I love it, and this story more
Speaker 3: or less suggested it was a standoff. Well, because they
Speaker 3: they're like, no, you're not coming in, and they head right,
Speaker 3: they became the Institute of Confrontation right.
Speaker 2: And I should note I tried to reach the Institute
Speaker 2: for comment and didn't get any response because Doge effectively
Speaker 2: shut it down. So Matt these email exchanges are taking
Speaker 2: place on the heels of a very public confrontation between
Speaker 2: DOGE and the US Institute of Peace. So let's go
Speaker 2: back now to the email March twenty fifth from Peace
Speaker 2: Corps Safety and Security. And again, this email has a
Speaker 2: number of redacted names, but there are a couple that
Speaker 2: are unredacted, and those names are Karen Roberts and Nancy
Speaker 2: or Bolsheimer, So Matt. Both Nancy and Karen are Trump
Speaker 2: appointees from the first Trump administration and have decades of
Speaker 2: experience working in Republican administrations and now they're back at
Speaker 2: the Peace Corps for Trump two point zero.
Speaker 3: So there it sounds like like what some would call
Speaker 3: deep state.
Speaker 1: People borrowed, they burrowed in, they burrowed all right.
Speaker 2: Continue and the email says Nancy and Karen redacted reached
Speaker 2: out to let me know that you two should be
Speaker 2: added to the list of people that get notified in
Speaker 2: the event a DOSEE team comes to visit Peace Corps headquarters.
Speaker 2: I have the below contact information for you both. If
Speaker 2: a team does visit us, we will gather in the
Speaker 2: Harris Wafford Conference room on the second floor. I think
Speaker 2: this email is really interesting because of what it says
Speaker 2: here if a team does visit us, like, are they
Speaker 2: unsure if Doge is going to visit Peace Corps and
Speaker 2: has this planning that has taken place over the past
Speaker 2: month been in preparation for a potential visit. If in fact,
Speaker 2: this is just kind of preemptive on the part of
Speaker 2: Peace Corps Matt that they have now spent a month
Speaker 2: to kind of prepare for Doge's arrival. I mean, holy cow,
Speaker 2: look at how much time they're investing. They seem to
Speaker 2: be taking a very different approach from Institute for Peace,
Speaker 2: who's like, get out of here, your trespassing exactly.
Speaker 3: We don't want to be like us Institute of Fake
Speaker 3: Peace that gets into a confrontation with Doge. They're peace posers,
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, they are the hair metal of Peace.
Speaker 3: We are the true hardcore.
Speaker 1: Members of Peace. We're the slayer of peace. We're the
Speaker 1: slayer of peace.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're not the def Leppard of Peace.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the next email, now we're jumping table third,
Speaker 2: and here's where things start to ramp up. Subject line
Speaker 2: detail to the Peace Corps, and it says team I
Speaker 2: receive two phone calls within five minutes. I wanted to
Speaker 2: bring it to your attention. Here's what I know. Phone
Speaker 2: call number one names redacted. He is serving as a
Speaker 2: senior advice at the US Office of Personnel Management and
Speaker 2: introduced himself as a White House liaison. He advised me
Speaker 2: that redacted, so his person's name in an email address
Speaker 2: will be detailed to the Peace Corps. Phone call number
Speaker 2: two and then it says name redacted. Call to get
Speaker 2: more details on her onboarding. She expects to be onboarded
Speaker 2: tomorrow with a laptop, badge and cell phone, she stated,
Speaker 2: who works for GSA and was originally going to be
Speaker 2: detailed to USA. She stated, she has directives. I'll be
Speaker 2: working with the Peace Corps in a leadership position short term.
Speaker 2: But what's notable here is the mention of Office of
Speaker 2: Personnel Management and the GSA.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So the reason I mentioned that is Office Personal Management
Speaker 2: is like the government's human resources department, and so many
Speaker 2: of the DOGE folks when they were brought into government
Speaker 2: that became part of Office of Personal Management before they
Speaker 2: were sent out to various agencies, and then GSA was
Speaker 2: kind of like one of these first DAIS agencies where
Speaker 2: many of them went over to so I think that's
Speaker 2: a pretty notable email because it kind of gives us
Speaker 2: a sense of what's going on behind the scenes in
Speaker 2: the build up toward Doge arriving at.
Speaker 1: The Peace Corps.
Speaker 2: Importantly, it's dated April third, twenty twenty five, right, so
Speaker 2: this is what is it? A day or two before
Speaker 2: I followed my request, and then that evening Karen sends
Speaker 2: an email.
Speaker 1: You ready, Matt, I'm ready. I'm excited, Telly Jos's arriving tomorrow.
Speaker 2: It says Doge will arrive at Peace Corps tomorrow, most
Speaker 2: likely early afternoon, will need access to our systems and financials.
Speaker 2: She is being lent to Peace Corps, so she will
Speaker 2: not be paid by Peace Corps.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 2: We do not know how long she will be with us.
Speaker 2: She'll be working over the weekend. She will let Nancy
Speaker 2: or I know her arrival time and we will greet
Speaker 2: her on the first floor and take her to see
Speaker 2: another person whose name is redacted on the scene second
Speaker 2: floor to get her badge so she can get underway.
Speaker 2: She will need a computer with access and most likely
Speaker 2: will need an office or conference room to work out of.
Speaker 2: We gave Valves and a heads up that's Alison Green,
Speaker 2: the CEO, and she indicated we would huddle tomorrow morning
Speaker 2: to discuss the details and review the plan best Karen
Speaker 2: and Nancy, they're getting ready to review the plan.
Speaker 3: Does this start to have like an office space kind
Speaker 3: of feel to you like it's.
Speaker 2: Bob's Yes, it definitely feels that way, particularly like she
Speaker 2: will need a conference room. And it's funny because you
Speaker 2: know when I was reporting on CFPB, that's that's essentially
Speaker 2: where you know, the dog folks hold up like in
Speaker 2: a conference room. They papered over the windows in the
Speaker 2: conference room, make sure nobody could you know, could peek in.
Speaker 2: So then you know the rest of the emails in
Speaker 2: this kind of chain. The chief information officer says, I'm
Speaker 2: kicking off the support process now and be ready to go,
Speaker 2: looking forward to meeting with her, And then you know,
Speaker 2: another email thanks Karen. As you know, the office next
Speaker 2: to me is a bilbow exclamation point, probably the only
Speaker 2: exclamation point that I think we've seen thus far.
Speaker 3: Why would there be an exclamation point there?
Speaker 1: Like put her here?
Speaker 3: So now we're going to Friday, April fourth, I'm picturing
Speaker 3: like if this is a TV show, It's like the
Speaker 3: screen flash is like, now it's that date and then
Speaker 3: the next day begins.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the moment we've been training for. We've
Speaker 1: been training for this moment.
Speaker 3: Can they feel it coming in the air tonight or today?
Speaker 1: Oh? Give it, we need the drum roll, Matt, you
Speaker 1: gotta go over. You're going to Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: Can we call it like Peace Corps versus like Death Corps?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, DOJ the Death Corps.
Speaker 3: I'm eagerly awaiting how this goes. Friday, April fourth, the
Speaker 3: day DOJ's schedule to arrive, and around noon, the chief
Speaker 3: information officer sends around and know about Joj's arrival. Cooperation
Speaker 3: is key.
Speaker 2: The subject line of the email is system point of
Speaker 2: com intact access for DOGE team members. When if they arrive,
Speaker 2: good morning and happy Friday, Team Peace Corps. See that, Matt,
Speaker 2: like that they're embracing that Team Peace Corps or team piece. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we will be welcoming the DOGE folks this afternoon. We
Speaker 2: have been made aware that they intend to work on
Speaker 2: the weekends. You know, I have to do the lover
Speaker 2: boy reference.
Speaker 1: Everybody is working on the weekend.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well but that's you've you've completely inverted what that
Speaker 3: song is about the line is everybody's working for the weekend.
Speaker 3: Isn't it like you're getting your work done on Friday
Speaker 3: so you can party on weekend?
Speaker 1: Really? Is is that it? I think?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 2: Oh, you're right, Matt, everybody's working for the weekend. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so we have been made aware that they intend to
Speaker 2: work on the weekend, so we will need you on standby.
Speaker 2: It goes on to say, as discussed, you should be
Speaker 2: prepared to do the following to be as helpful as possible.
Speaker 2: There's a bulleted list of six very specific constructions, but
Speaker 2: this one stood out to me. Under all circumstances, ensure
Speaker 2: that clear records are kept on what is requested.
Speaker 1: What does that mean to you?
Speaker 2: Ensure that clear records are kept on what is requested
Speaker 2: and provided to your ad assistant director.
Speaker 1: And that says copying a couple of people. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: makes sense.
Speaker 3: I mean there, I think there's a lot of sensitivities
Speaker 3: around and there have been a lot of disputes about
Speaker 3: what is doge entitled to or not right, And this
Speaker 3: seems to be saying, if they ask for something, let's
Speaker 3: document exactly what they're asking for and let's make sure
Speaker 3: it goes up the chain so that they can get
Speaker 3: reviewed and approved, and if there's a dispute in the
Speaker 3: future about what they're asking for, they want to make
Speaker 3: sure that's documented, or if there's a dispute about what
Speaker 3: they did access that there's a record of that.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's what it sounds like to me.
Speaker 2: So again, they're probably reading the reporting around DOGE at
Speaker 2: other agencies gaining access to systems the controversies connected to that,
Speaker 2: and are kind of suggesting some proactive steps in the
Speaker 2: event that there's request access data systems. And that afternoon,
Speaker 2: the DOGE employee arrives a Peace Corps to suss out waste,
Speaker 2: fraud and abuse.
Speaker 3: All right, they're finally here.
Speaker 1: Here we go. So the emails don't.
Speaker 2: Say how the arrival actually went, but I'm imagining Nancy
Speaker 2: and Karen greet her on the first floor. They escored
Speaker 2: her to the second floor to get her badge, and
Speaker 2: then she settles into a conference room with her pre
Speaker 2: configured laptop with the identified software installed, just like they plan.
Speaker 2: And that evening, we're still on April fourth. Matt, the
Speaker 2: Chief Information Office, sends a message to the whole team,
Speaker 2: and this is sort of a debrief team. As you
Speaker 2: are probably aware, a DOGE employee visited Peace Corps today.
Speaker 2: She and a few of her colleagues will be working
Speaker 2: here with us over the coming weeks. They will be
Speaker 2: sitting in conference Room seventy to eighteen for the duration
Speaker 2: of their stay. During their stay with us, please observe
Speaker 2: the following. I'm cracking up that some of this are
Speaker 2: generalised Rioto Matt. Do not not is in all caps.
Speaker 2: Do not walk by the conference room to peek in.
Speaker 2: The location was selected for their privacy. Be mindful of
Speaker 2: your hallway conversations. Do not not, again in all caps,
Speaker 2: discuss their presence outside the agency. Do not share their
Speaker 2: names with anyone. Be courteous and respectful of their time.
Speaker 2: These folks are professionals with a big job to do
Speaker 2: and a narrow window in which to do it. We
Speaker 2: want them to be able to do their job safely
Speaker 2: and effectively. Your decorum and professionalism is expected. I mean,
Speaker 2: do not walk by the conference room to peek in.
Speaker 3: What I'd really like to hear is that read by
Speaker 3: the actor who played Tom Wamscan in succession? You back
Speaker 3: off this an executive level of business, Okay.
Speaker 2: You know I mean It's so funny because every time
Speaker 2: some kind of directive is handed down, you know, then
Speaker 2: the directive ends up being published by a media outlet.
Speaker 3: But you know, yeah, and this is a big deal,
Speaker 3: Like I mean, imposing secrecy and government officials, Like there
Speaker 3: is some First Amendment law around this, and you know,
Speaker 3: there is a lot the government can do. But like,
Speaker 3: these things are restricting government officials' ability to tell the
Speaker 3: public about what's going out in the government. Like, isn't
Speaker 3: really very democratic in my mind. I mean, there may
Speaker 3: be some legitimate reasons, but not to like save.
Speaker 1: Embarrassment or to minimize scrutiny.
Speaker 2: Well, what would be the legitimate reason to not disclose
Speaker 2: that there is a person from the Department of Government
Speaker 2: Efficiency there? Why why keep that from the public. We
Speaker 2: already know that Department of Government Efficiency exists. We already
Speaker 2: know from Trump's executive orders that they are being tasked
Speaker 2: with going into various agencies to basically check their books.
Speaker 1: So why the secrecy around them.
Speaker 3: I think they're just engaging what politicians forever engage in.
Speaker 3: But this is exactly what they'd be criticizing prior administrations
Speaker 3: for doing, like information blackouts, controlling the narrative spin. People
Speaker 3: are tired of this stuff. It's frustrating to people who
Speaker 3: want to understand what the government's up to, and then
Speaker 3: like they're trying to keep this kind of stuff secret exactly.
Speaker 2: And to be clear, I'm not weighing in at all
Speaker 2: on the partisan politics around this. For me, this is
Speaker 2: just about straight up transparency, just finding out what's going
Speaker 2: on in real time.
Speaker 3: And I think our record in messing with the Obama
Speaker 3: administration and messing with the Biden administration just as much.
Speaker 3: I think it speaks for itself, like, this isn't about partisanship,
Speaker 3: This isn't about politics. This is about you're the government
Speaker 3: and you work for us, And I don't care what
Speaker 3: party you're a member of. I don't care what policy
Speaker 3: you're trying to further. If you're not willing to do
Speaker 3: it in the open, then you don't deserve to be
Speaker 3: in government. Everyone should just imagine what would the world
Speaker 3: look like if the only thing that ever got reported
Speaker 3: in the press is what the government puts in press releases,
Speaker 3: in talking points. Nobody wants to live in that world, except,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe government officials. So these kinds of things,
Speaker 3: they really if they're followed, they have the ability to
Speaker 3: just shut down news coverage and make Jason's job more difficult.
Speaker 2: By the way, the emails I received don't name the
Speaker 2: DOGE employee, but by evening on April fourth, there was
Speaker 2: already a story naming a DOGE employee in The Guardian,
Speaker 2: thanks to two people at Peace Corps who anonymously spoke
Speaker 2: to her reporter there. They said her name was Bridget Young's.
Speaker 2: So much for do not discuss their presence outside of
Speaker 2: the agency, right. We don't know much about her, but
Speaker 2: it's since been reported that she's twenty nine years old.
Speaker 2: According to pro Publica's extensive database of DOGE members, Elon
Speaker 2: Musk's demolition crew, as pro Publica called.
Speaker 3: Them, it kind of reminds me of the Motorhead song
Speaker 3: We Are the Road Crew.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what else?
Speaker 2: She previously worked as a senior manager at Ramp Charging,
Speaker 2: a company that builds electric vehicle charging stations, and that's
Speaker 2: according to an archive of her deleted LinkedIn profile. That's
Speaker 2: another thing, By the way, many of these folks who
Speaker 2: came to work for DOGE just to erase their digital
Speaker 2: footprint deleted their social media accounts, and did so in
Speaker 2: a way where like you can't even find much of
Speaker 2: an archive. But before that she worked at New Energy Capital,
Speaker 2: a clean energy investment firm.
Speaker 1: So no government experience.
Speaker 2: That we know of, and now she's coming into the
Speaker 2: Peace Corps to you know, do her thing. She was
Speaker 2: only there a few hours, but would be back and
Speaker 2: there could be more people from DOGE next time.
Speaker 1: She'll be back. She'll be back.
Speaker 2: The following Monday, and email went around to some employees
Speaker 2: with a reminder, Hi, quick update. The DOGE team came
Speaker 2: in to do an assessment, which is ongoing. They have
Speaker 2: done the same at several other agencies that don't make
Speaker 2: the press. The only reminder is if we do receive
Speaker 2: media requests, to work with the communications team and not
Speaker 2: respond independently.
Speaker 1: Thanks.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry you're talking about that, but a STFU.
Speaker 1: Order, Yeah, have you ever received one of those?
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like standard government fair that I've seen,
Speaker 3: like both parties, all units of government the like. If
Speaker 3: there's a press inquiry, then make sure that it's the
Speaker 3: people at the top who can control what's being said.
Speaker 3: So you know, that's which is usually nothing right, which
Speaker 3: is usually nothing right.
Speaker 2: So what came of this in late April, the Guardian
Speaker 2: reported Peace Corps to undergo significant cuts after Doze review.
Speaker 2: It reported that the CEO, Alison Green, sent an email
Speaker 2: to staff offering them a second Fork in the Road buyout,
Speaker 2: the first one being offered by Musk to all government
Speaker 2: employees earlier this year. Employees had seven business days to decide.
Speaker 2: Then in August of this year, the Peace Corps announced
Speaker 2: a shuffle in senior leadership. CEO Alison Green, among others,
Speaker 2: step down to quote pave the way for a new
Speaker 2: leadership team and guide the organizational transformations that will make
Speaker 2: Peace Corps stronger and more efficient in the long run.
Speaker 2: Karen Roberts stepped up as the acting chief of staff
Speaker 2: until the administration selected someone else, which they did in September.
Speaker 1: So we know about some buyouts.
Speaker 2: And a staff shuffle, but we're still waiting to learn
Speaker 2: exactly how many cuts were made. So far, this doesn't
Speaker 2: look like it's as severe as the US Institute for
Speaker 2: Peace or US eight. I tried to reach Bridget Young's
Speaker 2: and didn't get a response, But right before we published,
Speaker 2: the Peace Corps sent us this comment about Doge's visit,
Speaker 2: which they said took place in April and may quote.
Speaker 2: Peace Corps and DOGE staff work together respectfully and professionally
Speaker 2: to complete the audits in a timely manner. They added
Speaker 2: this about the cuts. Following the review, the agency determined
Speaker 2: that certain positions could be reduced to carry out the
Speaker 2: mission more efficiently without any impact on volunteer safety and security, health,
Speaker 2: medical care, or quality of service. Peace Corps offered staff
Speaker 2: members a deferred resignation program option. In addition, the agency
Speaker 2: reduced oversees local higher contractors. The Peace Corps continues to
Speaker 2: support it's currently serving volunteers as health, safety and security,
Speaker 2: and effective service, and continues to recruit, place and train
Speaker 2: new volunteers.
Speaker 3: So, Jason, you said you wanted an opportunity to visualize
Speaker 3: what a visit from DOGE entailed and hope to capture
Speaker 3: that through documents. Did the documents answer your questions?
Speaker 1: Oh? Totally.
Speaker 2: These documents really gave us a behind the scenes look
Speaker 2: at the planning. In some cases, the fear, the anxiety
Speaker 2: that was circulating right before Dog's visit. And I do
Speaker 2: think that it gives us a visualization of what was
Speaker 2: happening inside Peace Corps right before DOJ was coming in.
Speaker 1: Was fascinating to me in obtaining.
Speaker 2: These records is the level of detail, the fact that
Speaker 2: they were planning for two months leading up to the
Speaker 2: arrival at Peace Corps, the drills that were taking place.
Speaker 2: I want the public to feel like they're a fly
Speaker 2: on the wall and are right there when all of
Speaker 2: this is taking place. So I think the documents are fascinating.
Speaker 2: I want more. I want more of these documents. And
Speaker 2: as I mentioned Matt, this is just the kind of
Speaker 2: first interim release that we received after I negotiated with
Speaker 2: the agency.
Speaker 3: And I think it shows the impact that DOGE, in
Speaker 3: the way it went about doing what it's doing, had
Speaker 3: on the operations of government. I think to some extent,
Speaker 3: it also shows how much the federal bureaucracy doesn't want
Speaker 3: to change. That it's resistant to anyone coming in and
Speaker 3: reviewing their operations and potentially finding that they're doing things
Speaker 3: that aren't consistent with policy directives of this administration, or
Speaker 3: that are inefficient, or whatever it may be. And so like,
Speaker 3: I don't want to leave the impression, at least for myself,
Speaker 3: that this is like DOGE is bad and the agencies
Speaker 3: are good. I think the idea of what DOGE was
Speaker 3: supposed to be doing is not a bad one. And
Speaker 3: I think that agencies, to the extent they weren't cooperating,
Speaker 3: were probably in many instances being motivated by their own
Speaker 3: self preservation, which isn't necessarily consistent with a broader public interest.
Speaker 2: True, and as I mentioned earlier, Matt, you know, this
Speaker 2: is the job that inspectors General would perform for the
Speaker 2: most part, looking into waste fraud and abuse, for example,
Speaker 2: labor mischarging. That is what the watchdogs, the internal watch
Speaker 2: dogs historically have done. But you can't get away from
Speaker 2: the fact that there's a political agenda here. And with
Speaker 2: agencies like USAID that were identified by Project twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: the reason was not so much much about waste fraud
Speaker 2: and abuse, but the political and ideological associations with the
Speaker 2: programs that, for example, USA Idea was funding. Project twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five was essentially trying to make the case that
Speaker 2: the US was funding abortion.
Speaker 3: So, you know, Jason, I feel like I haven't heard
Speaker 3: a ton lately about what's going on at DOGE, Like
Speaker 3: what is going on these days? Well, dog is largely
Speaker 3: faded from public view. Many of the DOJE employees, like
Speaker 3: Bridget Youngs, they either became permanent government employees. They are
Speaker 3: now attached to a specific agency or they left.
Speaker 2: I mean Elon Musk is gone. So the whole sort
Speaker 2: of idea of DOGE taking an act to these agencies,
Speaker 2: I mean they first six months of the year, that's
Speaker 2: what they did, but then it just completely faded. But
Speaker 2: they still exist US DOZE Service is still an entity,
Speaker 2: and as it relates to the Foyer, there's still a fight,
Speaker 2: you know, to get those records. But for the most
Speaker 2: part are those who were attached to DOGE are now
Speaker 2: part of the government bureaucracy within other agencies. But yeah,
Speaker 2: DOGE is not headline news the way it was for
Speaker 2: the first six months of the year.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, Jason, you know what they say about
Speaker 3: peace right.
Speaker 1: Peace sells, but who's buying peace? And but who's buying Oh.
Speaker 3: That's perfect, you put a price on piece. I think
Speaker 3: Megadeth is about to do like a final tour, right
Speaker 3: they are final tour with Iron Maiden. We're going we're
Speaker 3: getting backstage and we're going to interview Davi mis Staine.
Speaker 1: About all this. What do you think I'm broke?
Speaker 3: What a classic line? Better work biz Time from Bloomberg
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