WEBVTT - Bloomberg Law Brief: Former WH Ethics Head Walter Shaub (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I was time for our daily Bloomberg Lab Brief,

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<v Speaker 1>exploring legal issues in the news. And today, Bloomberg Law

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<v Speaker 1>host Greg Store speaks with Walter's Shops, senior director of

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<v Speaker 1>ethics at the Campaign Legal Center and former director of

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<v Speaker 1>the U S Office of Government Ethics, about his departure

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<v Speaker 1>from the Trump administration. What sort of great do you

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<v Speaker 1>give this administration on ethics issues? Well, I'm afraid I'd

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<v Speaker 1>have to give them a d teetering into f because

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<v Speaker 1>the tone from the top has trickled down, and you've

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<v Speaker 1>got government officials who seem to continue to advertise other

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<v Speaker 1>people's products or their own products from the government, and

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<v Speaker 1>you've got a White House Council who seems to be

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<v Speaker 1>sending a message to folks that anything goes and as

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<v Speaker 1>long as we can make an argument that it's legal,

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<v Speaker 1>it's okay. And so after I fought a battle with

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<v Speaker 1>them for a month to get some very routine ethics records,

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<v Speaker 1>the White House waivers, I got a hand in my

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<v Speaker 1>hands on those documents and saw that they were unsigned, undated,

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<v Speaker 1>and retroactive. And a retroactive waiver means you think somebody's

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<v Speaker 1>already violated a rule and you're saying to them after

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<v Speaker 1>the fact, it's okay. So when you were the Director

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<v Speaker 1>of GE you were in a rare position. You could

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<v Speaker 1>criticize the administration from the inside or at least, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>from an important government position. Uh, and you could uh

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<v Speaker 1>put some pressure on them to to comply with ethics rules. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>So why did you leave? Well, I truly felt I

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<v Speaker 1>had reached the end of what I could achieve from

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<v Speaker 1>the inside. And I think it wasn't the deciding factor,

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<v Speaker 1>but a factor was when I finally got my hands

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<v Speaker 1>on those waivers I mentioned, and they were unsigned, undated, retroactive,

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<v Speaker 1>and in fact, the Council to the President who issued

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<v Speaker 1>two of them was actually a member of the class

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<v Speaker 1>of the persons he issued them too. So here he's saying,

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<v Speaker 1>I hear by waiver for myself, which is absolutely incredible. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I started feeling like there wasn't more I

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<v Speaker 1>could do, and I started feeling like they were getting

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<v Speaker 1>more clever in their reactions to to O g E

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<v Speaker 1>by sharing less and less information with us, And so

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<v Speaker 1>I felt like leaving the government, I'd be freer to

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<v Speaker 1>speak out about it, and in fact, I wouldn't be

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<v Speaker 1>sitting here talking to you if I were still in

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<v Speaker 1>the government, because ultimately in that role, I may have

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<v Speaker 1>been a government watchdog, but my boss was the president,

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<v Speaker 1>and I had to limit how much I was able

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<v Speaker 1>to publicly express my concerns, and so I did them

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<v Speaker 1>through very limited channels. And I have a lot more

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<v Speaker 1>freedom now to talk about some of these issues. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's Walter Shob, Senior director of Ethics at the Campaign

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<v Speaker 1>Legal Center and former director of the U S Office

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<v Speaker 1>of Government Ethics, speaking with Bloomberg Law host Greg Store.

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<v Speaker 1>You can listen to Bloomberg Law weekdays at one pm

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<v Speaker 1>Wall Street Time here on Bloomberg Radio, and that's this

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<v Speaker 1>morning is Bloomberg Labrate. If you can find more legal

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<v Speaker 1>news at Bloomberg Law dot com and Bloomberg BNA dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>Attorneys will find exceptional legal research and business development to

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<v Speaker 1>a there as well. Visit Bloomberg Law dot com and

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