1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,200 Speaker 1: Well, I was time for our daily Bloomberg Lab Brief, 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: exploring legal issues in the news. And today, Bloomberg Law 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: host Greg Store speaks with Walter's Shops, senior director of 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: ethics at the Campaign Legal Center and former director of 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: the U S Office of Government Ethics, about his departure 6 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: from the Trump administration. What sort of great do you 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: give this administration on ethics issues? Well, I'm afraid I'd 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: have to give them a d teetering into f because 9 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: the tone from the top has trickled down, and you've 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: got government officials who seem to continue to advertise other 11 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: people's products or their own products from the government, and 12 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: you've got a White House Council who seems to be 13 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: sending a message to folks that anything goes and as 14 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: long as we can make an argument that it's legal, 15 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: it's okay. And so after I fought a battle with 16 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: them for a month to get some very routine ethics records, 17 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: the White House waivers, I got a hand in my 18 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: hands on those documents and saw that they were unsigned, undated, 19 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: and retroactive. And a retroactive waiver means you think somebody's 20 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: already violated a rule and you're saying to them after 21 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: the fact, it's okay. So when you were the Director 22 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: of GE you were in a rare position. You could 23 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: criticize the administration from the inside or at least, you know, 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: from an important government position. Uh, and you could uh 25 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: put some pressure on them to to comply with ethics rules. Um. 26 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: So why did you leave? Well, I truly felt I 27 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: had reached the end of what I could achieve from 28 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: the inside. And I think it wasn't the deciding factor, 29 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: but a factor was when I finally got my hands 30 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: on those waivers I mentioned, and they were unsigned, undated, retroactive, 31 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: and in fact, the Council to the President who issued 32 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: two of them was actually a member of the class 33 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: of the persons he issued them too. So here he's saying, 34 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: I hear by waiver for myself, which is absolutely incredible. Um. 35 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: And so I started feeling like there wasn't more I 36 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: could do, and I started feeling like they were getting 37 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: more clever in their reactions to to O g E 38 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: by sharing less and less information with us, And so 39 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: I felt like leaving the government, I'd be freer to 40 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: speak out about it, and in fact, I wouldn't be 41 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: sitting here talking to you if I were still in 42 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: the government, because ultimately in that role, I may have 43 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: been a government watchdog, but my boss was the president, 44 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: and I had to limit how much I was able 45 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 1: to publicly express my concerns, and so I did them 46 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: through very limited channels. And I have a lot more 47 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: freedom now to talk about some of these issues. And 48 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: that's Walter Shob, Senior director of Ethics at the Campaign 49 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: Legal Center and former director of the U S Office 50 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: of Government Ethics, speaking with Bloomberg Law host Greg Store. 51 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: You can listen to Bloomberg Law weekdays at one pm 52 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: Wall Street Time here on Bloomberg Radio, and that's this 53 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: morning is Bloomberg Labrate. If you can find more legal 54 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: news at Bloomberg Law dot com and Bloomberg BNA dot com. 55 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: Attorneys will find exceptional legal research and business development to 56 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: a there as well. Visit Bloomberg Law dot com and 57 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg b and A dot com for more information.