1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory File Territory Networks Cubs podcast. I've 2 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: Sadave Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic and Patrick. Last 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: week the Cubs missed out on Tatsuya and I we 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: were wondering what is the move? What this team has 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: been talking about. This organization has been talking about the 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: need for starting pitching, and they go out and claim 8 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: Ryan Rollison. Obviously, the big trade happens on Wednesday. 9 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: Edward Cabrera to the Cubs. 10 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: This is a name we've been talking about for what 11 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 1: six months now longer than that, basically a little bit 12 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: before the trade deadline, we've been hearing his name. I 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: think the Cubs really like this guy. Give up Owen Casey. 14 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: Obviously a big prospect. It's a hefty price. There's a 15 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: ton of risk because of the injury history. But there's 16 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: upside here, and it adds the type of picture, almost 17 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: exactly the type of picture that they're looking for. Someone 18 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: to under control, someone with stuff, someone that gets strikeouts, 19 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: and someone that has he's not up front of the 20 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: rotation picture yet not consistently has improven that. But he 21 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: has that potential and they're really desperately we're looking for that. 22 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean my only sort of concern here is 23 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 3: just the volume, the workload. Someone who has not come 24 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 3: close to making thirty starts in a year, not even 25 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,559 Speaker 3: made one hundred and fifty innings, accounted for one hundred 26 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 3: fifty innings in the season. I think that injury history 27 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 3: is going to be something we're going to be monitoring 28 00:01:54,760 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 3: over his entire time with the Cups. I know that 29 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 3: holds true for every pitcher. But as we've talked about, 30 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 3: Pebrera reported out this story, like you said, not just 31 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 3: for months, I mean going all the way back to 32 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 3: last offseason when the Cubs and Marlins almost came together 33 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 3: on another deal for pitching. I was a little surprised 34 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 3: that they circled back here just because of that injury part. 35 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 3: But I want to hear your thoughts on hot of 36 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 3: like why has this guy been like such a target? 37 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 3: Why are they so intrigued by him? What is it 38 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 3: about his potential that's so tantalizing. 39 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, so the fastballs are interesting in the 40 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: sense that you look at just the velocity, and this 41 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: is a guy that sits ninety seven with two types 42 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: of fastballs, you know, a four seamer and a sinker. 43 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 2: But they get pounded, they get hit hard. 44 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: That's not why he's he has like I mean, I 45 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: assume that the Cubs have some ideas on how to 46 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: better use his fastballs perhaps, But what's like he's he's 47 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: got this weird change up that sits at like ninety four, 48 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: so doesn't have it's not like it's like eighty eight right, 49 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: and has this ten mile per hour gap between his fastball. 50 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: It is. 51 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: It is a weird change up that bears in on righty's. 52 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: He's a right hand pitcher, bears in on righties, and 53 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: he uses against writies. From my understanding, just a weird pitch, 54 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: unique pitch. And I think Council likes to say this. 55 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: Anything that's different can be good, can be like when 56 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: hitters aren't used to see something. 57 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not used to. 58 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: Seeing it, so it's it's weird and it throws them off. 59 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: And his breaking balls are good. He's got good breaking balls, 60 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: So I believe he's one of like a handful of 61 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: pitchers that uses his change up more than any other pitch. 62 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: Very you know, unique way pitching we'll see how it 63 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: goes at the pitch usage. I'm very curious eager to 64 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: talk to the people that are going to be working 65 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: with them pitching wise, what the plans are. But they've 66 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: liked this guy for a while. This front office, multiple 67 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: people in the front office like Edward Cabrera quite a bit. 68 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: There's a reason that they were going after him hard 69 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: at the deadline. 70 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: Obviously it was a higher cost back then. 71 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: I try and get some confirmation on what the difference 72 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: was at some point we'll hopefully get exact names, but 73 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: we know that they were asked like the prices were 74 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: kind of hefty, and a lot of the deals that 75 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: they were looking at had at least one of the 76 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: guys on the big league roster attached their names attached. 77 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: I don't know if Edward Cabrera was one of those 78 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: names that was like Shaw or or I don't know. 79 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: We don't have that confirmed. Uh, But I assume Casey 80 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: was part of it back then too. 81 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 2: Uh. 82 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: And it was probably it had to have been a 83 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: bigger price, otherwise you don't not make it then and 84 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: make it now. 85 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 2: Uh. And also he got hurt. You know, it comes 86 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 2: out a little bit. 87 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: But yeah, this is this is the guy with a 88 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: ton of stuff. And and look when when Jed Hoyer 89 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: sat in front of us after the season ended, I 90 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: asked him, like, you need to add more stuff than 91 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: strikeouts to the rotation, and and he he, you know, 92 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: kind of didn't flat out say we have to because 93 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: he loves his defense and and it and it is 94 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: a huge benefit to this team and and helps their 95 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: pitchers a ton, But he also said, like it it's 96 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: just like everyone wants stuff in the strikeouts. Now that 97 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: the problem with that is that costs a ton of money. 98 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: They wanted to get that. They were in on Dylan Cees, 99 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: but not a what was it, two hundred and ten million, 100 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: not a rice, which none of us should be surprised 101 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: by with the way the Cubs behave with how they 102 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: spend money. But they want strikeouts, strikeouts number one and stuff. 103 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: Would be like, you know, secondary, that's good, you want stuff, 104 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: but like, the strikeouts is what matters most. 105 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 2: They have it. Now. 106 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: They have a guy that strikes out guys that sits 107 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: in the upper nineties with his fastball. 108 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 2: He's got stuff. They just don't have that in their rotation. 109 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 2: It's like, now. 110 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: Him and Kate Horton, and then you think about years 111 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: down the line, Jackson Wiggins, Like, if you can have 112 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 1: these guys like, you know, I don't want to sound 113 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: like Carter Hawkins and talk about twenty thirty two, but 114 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: you know, twenty twenty seven when all these guys, you know, 115 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: when you lose all these free agents, if you have 116 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: a rotation led by Horton, Edward Cabrera and Jackson Wiggins, 117 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 1: that's completely different looking rotation than than what the Cubs 118 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: have had and you know, probably twenty years. 119 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 3: I mean, you waited almost seven minutes before talking about 120 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 3: Jackson Wiggins. I like, he's been this mystery man. Yeah, 121 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 3: I get like, I get it. I think Cabrera will 122 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 3: probably be pretty good as long as long as he 123 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 3: stays healthy. If you see in recent years, Justin Steele 124 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 3: became an All Star, showed him, Monaga became an All Star, 125 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: Matthew Boyd became an All Star. The defense. If Wriggley 126 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 3: Field again plays like an extreme pitchers park, that would 127 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: probably help as well. I'm also curious just the going 128 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 3: from Miami in kind of a very sleepy baseball market 129 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 3: to you know, Wrigley Field with forty thousand every night, 130 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 3: and you know, a team with playoff expectations that usually 131 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 3: bodes well for the right type of pitchers. And you know, 132 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 3: I have no reason to think that won't help Cabrera. 133 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 3: But I think you're kind of getting at the other 134 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 3: kind of nagging thing about this trade that you know, 135 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 3: I wrote about in The Athletic and Ken Rosenthal did 136 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 3: as well on The Athletic of just like whyt to 137 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 3: just go sign a free agent, like there's roughly nine 138 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 3: eight to nine like pretty good to maybe great starting 139 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 3: pitchers out there, and I know all of them have 140 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 3: you know, certain awards, you know, the draft pick compensation stuff, 141 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 3: the the opt outs, all of those things, but it 142 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 3: just seems like, you know, the Cubs would rather trade 143 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 3: in the off season and you get that guy via 144 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 3: trade rather than just paying the going rate for the 145 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 3: best free agents. And this, all this maneuvering that they 146 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 3: have to do to stay within certain financial parameters is 147 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 3: seems like a lot when we're just talking about forty 148 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 3: thousand at Wrigley every single night, a team that won 149 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 3: ninety plus games and its first playoff round in several years. 150 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 3: They better be right about Cabrera and then We'll get 151 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 3: into this later, but they also got to go get 152 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 3: another hitter. And you know, I'm not saying Owen case 153 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 3: he's going to be a star. I think he's probably 154 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 3: gonna be better in that situation in Miami where they 155 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 3: should just give him six hundred at bats and see 156 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 3: what happens. I don't know exactly how patient the Cubs 157 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 3: would have been. Obviously, Craig Council is a very deliberate, 158 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 3: patient manager who's good with young talent. But would he 159 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 3: have gotten the same runway with the Cubs. Probably not. 160 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 3: And this all goes back to where did Owen Casey 161 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 3: come from? Oh, the U Darvish salary dump trade? And 162 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 3: now six seasons later, the Cubs should finally get some 163 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 3: sort of you know, tangible, real major league value from 164 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 3: that Darvish trade. 165 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I like going Casey. 166 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: I think this is so the risk on as far 167 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: as just purely Edward Cabrera. We talked about that. It's 168 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: the injury, right. I think he has a chance to 169 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: be great. I think he's just scratching the surface of 170 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: how good he can be. But that can all just 171 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: be derailed with one major injury, and then you know, 172 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 1: who you lose a picture for a year, a year 173 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: and a half. 174 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 2: This is that's not uncommon. 175 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: It feels like the risk is a little higher with 176 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: him because of what's happened recently. I think it's I 177 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: was looking at the injury history before, but plenty of 178 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: elbows up last year, shoulder stuff in years before that. 179 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 2: That's worrisome. 180 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: That's a legit concern, and it's why it didn't cost 181 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: them three of their top ten prospects. Right. That's that's 182 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: part of why you're seeing that Owen Casey. 183 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 2: It's scary to. 184 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: Give up a guy like that because extreme power from 185 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: the left side, crazy eggs of velocities, stuff like that. 186 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: Though those are hard to find that those attributes are 187 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: hard to find, they're sought after. The pictures with stuff 188 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: and lefty power bats, those are like great commodities. 189 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 2: And the Cubs gave up one of those. 190 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,119 Speaker 1: The Cubs gave up a guy that has the potential 191 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: to slug forty plus home maybe not four. I mean 192 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: he has the potential to slug forty plus. He does, 193 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: but I mean, you know, thirty plus is probably more realistic. 194 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: Just has a chance to be an impact power bat. 195 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: There's obviously risk with him too, with the swing and miss, 196 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: defensive value things like that. I'll say this about what 197 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: why why you take this risk? As the Cubs A 198 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: like the need for the picture by the one area 199 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: that they're deep in in their system is outfielders. There's 200 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: you know, you have Kevin ol Contra at the top, 201 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: and then look at this last draft. Ethan Conrad, Kane Kepley, 202 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: Cad Snell, Josiah harsh Heartshrom Hartshorn. I got to learn 203 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 1: how to say this kid's name, that that kid's a 204 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: high school's. 205 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 3: Good you can't even pronounce. 206 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: Remember that's that's four of their top six picks were outfielders. 207 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: Three of them college guys. I think two of them legit, 208 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: Kane Kepley looked really good, Ethan Conrad. They're really high 209 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: on this kid and the kid whose name I can't say, 210 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,479 Speaker 1: Josiah Hartshorn. Uh, he's a he's a high school prospect 211 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: that that fell that that that I think that they're 212 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: high on as well. So, I mean they have outfield prospects. 213 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: This is the it's the one area they're deep in, 214 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: Like that's the one place you can say, like, look 215 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: at the Cubs system, and it's a yeah, they gave 216 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,719 Speaker 1: up someone that you can say, like, this guy could 217 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: be really good, but they have outfield prospects. Uh, they 218 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: desperately need pitching after Wiggins, there's nothing in the system. 219 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: And then you have Jamison ty One, Matthew Boyd and 220 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: showeda in Minaga and Colin Ray all impending free agents 221 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: after this season. 222 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 2: Uh, you had to go get a starter. 223 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 3: Now. 224 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: The argument that you make and I agree with, would 225 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: then just go out and sign a guy that you 226 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: know is good, but like it? I think sometimes while 227 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: I agree with that and and like it, we should 228 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: bring that up every single time something like this happens 229 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: and and say, like, why don't the Cubs act like 230 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 1: a team that you know that, like they're in Chicago 231 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: and make a crap ton of money and fill up 232 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: Wrigley Field every summer. It's worth mentioning every single time 233 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: it is. But we also have to I think there's 234 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: a certain point where Okay, we talk about it, we 235 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: understand it, but also, okay, so how do they what 236 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: are the moves they make because they don't behave that way. 237 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: So that's why this deal makes sense, because they don't 238 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: behave that way, they don't spend two hundred and ten 239 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: millions on Dylan two hundred and ten million dollars on 240 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: Dylan C's. It's maddening because they should, but they're not 241 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: doing those things. So this is the path that they 242 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: have to take. I think this is less of a 243 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: risk than Kyle Tucker Kyle Tucker trade because it's not 244 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: one year, it's not three really like three legit like 245 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: two major leaguers and a top and your top prospect. 246 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: It's a top prospect and two lottery tickets, So it 247 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: feels very different. 248 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 2: The risk is different in the return. 249 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: As well, but it's just a I was surprised by 250 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: the return because of what Shane bas cost uh and 251 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: and just what starting pitching is going for. I just 252 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: thought it was going to be an unreasonable return. Obviously, 253 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: the risk of injuries mitigates the return here. 254 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to ask you about Christian Hernandez, one 255 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 3: of those lottery tickets in there. I feel like, you know, 256 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, he was what like a 257 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 3: three million dollar, you know, bonus signing. I think kind 258 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 3: of the industry and kind of the hype machine was saying, 259 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 3: like a little a rod Ish maybe ra shato ish, 260 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 3: like what could you give us some of the backstory 261 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 3: and maybe how he had sort of plateaued in the 262 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 3: CUB system, Like there is a lot a lot of 263 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 3: time for you know this to you know, look really 264 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 3: good for the Marlins, but it seems like they're buying 265 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 3: lo which probably makes sense for the situation that they're in. 266 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I would say that he came in 267 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: and really disappointed early christ Internet like he struggled. I 268 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: don't think he I think he could get by. I 269 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: think he thought he could get by on talent, a 270 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: ton of talent there. I think that attitude changed from 271 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: my understanding that attitude. The attitude got better, the work 272 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: ethic got better over the years, and that's not uncommon. 273 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: Think it was what seventeen or some whatever, sixteen when 274 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: he first came so like, I don't think anybody should 275 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: be shocked by that. But he wasn't this like crazy 276 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: work ethic guy and willing to put it like, willing 277 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: to make the changes needed to handle professional pitching. It 278 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: just doesn't seem to have clicked fully, Like this is 279 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: a guy that was, like you said, a rotten Manny 280 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: Machado comps. 281 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 2: I mean, that's crazy. 282 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: The offensive numbers are just like have been average at 283 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: best every level. I think he got to high a 284 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: last year. Just nothing, nothing jumps out at you, nobody. 285 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: When I talked to scouts, it's just like, you know, 286 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't look like someone that's going to shoot through 287 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 1: the system. I think it just kind of speaks to 288 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: the Cubs, like in general, they haven't gotten a lot 289 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 1: of return on investment on those big money those big 290 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: money if as we haven't seen a lot from them, 291 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: I guess we're seeing some of them moved in trades 292 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: and that's that's how you get the return on investment. 293 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: If you can't get them to the big leagues, this 294 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: is the best thing you can do. But I have 295 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: not the power never fully materialized. I think the contact 296 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: in the bat got a little bit better over the years, 297 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: but I never heard great things about Like people were 298 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: optimistic coming into this past season and he was fine. 299 00:17:58,920 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 2: He wasn't he was. 300 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: I think it ended up being a very league average bat. 301 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: So it never he never fully popped. And I've written about. 302 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 2: Him over the years like it. 303 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: You know, he's clearly ultra talented. The other kid, Edgardo 304 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: de Leone apparently. I mean, he put up some decent numbers. 305 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: It was its Arizona Complex League. I just don't trust 306 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: that stuff. It's hard to look at numbers of that 307 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: and be like, oh, yeah, this guy's legit. But apparently 308 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: he's got great eggs and velocities and bat speed. But yeah, 309 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you look at the data. These guys 310 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: get our data, darlings, and it's like, Okay, we'll take 311 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: a flyer on this guy. If they sounds like we're 312 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: talking to a scout the other day or yesterday, he 313 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: said it's a high effort swing. There's bat speed there, 314 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: but it's a type of bat speed that you worry like, 315 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: will he make enough contact to get like past double A? 316 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I mean I think we'll we'll get into 317 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 3: this more in our next episode. But I still think 318 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 3: the concluding thought that you and I and Ken Rosenthal 319 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 3: had as we're texting back and forth yesterday and going 320 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 3: over our different story angles and coverage plans, it's like, Okay, 321 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 3: now go get a hitter, and and I think everything 322 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 3: almost everything we've said, or a lot of what we've 323 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 3: said during this episode will sound a lot different if 324 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 3: they go out and get one of those big four 325 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 3: free agents. 326 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll dig into this more in our next episode. 327 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: But I think I think this is when you when 328 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: you map out the Cubs offseason, when I was thinking 329 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: about it, and we kind of understood, like as we 330 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 1: kind of the off season went along, and we kind 331 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: of understood it's like, Okay, they're not They're not going 332 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: to spend crazy money. It's just and I think we 333 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: knew that going in. I think we've said, like we 334 00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: just we need to get over this idea that the 335 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: Cubs are going to act like the Cubs. 336 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 2: This is they just they don't spend like that. 337 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: The only way to make this work, to get both 338 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: the bat and the pitcher was to trade for the picture. 339 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: You had to trade for the under control picture that 340 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: was a little cheaper, and even then it's gonna be tight. 341 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 3: You know. 342 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: Well, we can dig into numbers and look at the 343 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: payroll next episode, but you know, I think it makes 344 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: all the sense of the world. Like this is where 345 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: I think we get back to what we were talking 346 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: about before, and it's like, stop with all the hemming 347 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: and hawing about payroll. Stop with like, well, what about 348 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 1: you know, flexibility for the future, Like you have enough 349 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: of that, go out and get the bat. There are 350 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: multiple fits here. Go out and spend the money. Finish 351 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: this off, make a playoff run in twenty twenty six, 352 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 1: and see what happens beyond that. But I think it 353 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: makes all the sense in the world. It's your set 354 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: up for it right now. Your payroll isn't too high. 355 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: You haven't extended yourself. It's just it makes too much sense. 356 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: We'll see if they can get it done. But this 357 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: once again where we are. Remember Craig Council higher. Okay, 358 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: go make the big move, Kyle Tucker move, Okay, go 359 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: add a pitcher. Now you have the Edward Cabrera move, like, 360 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: go add that bat. Finish it off. You did a 361 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: great job with the bullpen. You added that starter. Then 362 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: go finish it off. Have a great offseason and enter 363 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: the season as the clear favorites in the NL Central 364 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: and just quiet all the haters and all the complainers 365 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: and just go out and win a division finally, you know, 366 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: against a small market club that just continually embarrasses you 367 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:46,719 Speaker 1: season after season. 368 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, that reminds me how to go look up the 369 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 3: exact quote. But wasn't Jed Hoyer's quote after the twenty 370 00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 3: one deadline something like no half measures, something along those lines. 371 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 3: And you know, these past several off seasons, as you 372 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 3: pointed out so well, have been a lot of kind 373 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 3: of one step forward but not going all the way, 374 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 3: you know, not taking full advantage of the opportunity in 375 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 3: front of them. And so I think we're going to 376 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 3: be in this holding pattern for a while unless say 377 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 3: somehow jump out and like sign the guy they want 378 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 3: to sort of what that guy wants to sign for. Otherwise, 379 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 3: like as each name comes off the board, you can 380 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 3: kind of picture the Cups just sort of hanging around, 381 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 3: hanging around, because all four of them, to varying degrees, 382 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 3: do fit what this team needs. Although I we'll get 383 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 3: into the rankings another time. I would probably put Kyle 384 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 3: Tucker towards the bottom of that that lits in terms 385 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 3: of like realistic expectations and fit. But who knows. I 386 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 3: mean that we've got we've gotten to this point and 387 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 3: it's still still unresolved exactly. 388 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: There's the fact that there are so many bats left 389 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: I think also sets up nicely for the Cubs. 390 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 2: We'll see if they can finish it off. 391 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: We'll talk more about that next episode This is north 392 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: Side Territory Foul Territory Networks Cubs podcast. Thanks so much 393 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: for listening. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe, subscribe to 394 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: the YouTube channel, and subscribe to The Athletic for Patrick 395 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: and Iron top of all Things Cubs. Thanks for listening 396 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: to everyone.