Speaker 1: Welcome to The Dougherty Gang, a production of I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio and Katie Studios. This is our final episode, episode
Speaker 1: twelve Round Table. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a crime producer at
Speaker 1: Katie Studios with Stephanie Lydecker. We've been working with producer
Speaker 1: Beth Greenwald on The Dockerty Gang for months now. This
Speaker 1: podcast is being made into a movie. Writer director Seawan
Speaker 1: McEwan as the filmmaker who took on the story of
Speaker 1: the Doughertys. He first met the siblings eight years ago,
Speaker 1: and today he sits down with the film's lead actors,
Speaker 1: India Eisley who plays Lee Grace, Emery Cohen who plays Dylan,
Speaker 1: and Sam Strike who plays Ryan. They talk about their
Speaker 1: roles in the film and the process of making the movie.
Speaker 1: Sean also spoke with podcast executive producer Joseph Morgan India
Speaker 1: Ladies for So, first of all, how did you find
Speaker 1: out about the movie? When did you read the script
Speaker 1: and what was your initial reaction to the story. The
Speaker 1: script was just sent to me like any other appointment,
Speaker 1: any other directors meeting, and I had not heard of
Speaker 1: the story before I got the script. So in the
Speaker 1: email package, I first I read the article, and then
Speaker 1: I read the script and what was your impression of
Speaker 1: the article? When I read the article, it was a
Speaker 1: very interesting read, especially because I hadn't heard of the
Speaker 1: story at all. I found it more heartbreaking than anything,
Speaker 1: especially that the extremely harsh sentencing that they that they
Speaker 1: were given. And as far as attracting me to the project,
Speaker 1: what attracted me? And when I heard that Sam and
Speaker 1: Emory were on board, I was found to both of
Speaker 1: their work Sound from mind Hunter, Emory from the OA,
Speaker 1: and he had worked with some that I know, and
Speaker 1: so I wanted to work with them, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was just honestly, the whole thing appealed to me.
Speaker 1: Oh so, Emory, I'm gonna shift it over to you
Speaker 1: and ask you the same. How did you find out
Speaker 1: about the movie? Yeah? I mean, like India, I didn't
Speaker 1: know about the story. And to me, it was like
Speaker 1: kind of a story about family and I found that
Speaker 1: to be that like struck me, you know, because it's
Speaker 1: hard to imagine doing certain things, but then you put
Speaker 1: yourself in a scenario of what you would need to
Speaker 1: do to you know, protect your family or keep your
Speaker 1: family safe, and that opened up a world of imagination
Speaker 1: that's amazing. So what is it about the real life
Speaker 1: character of Ryan that attracted you to the role and
Speaker 1: did you feel like you could relate with Ryan? Um?
Speaker 1: I was reading one Ryan in the script, but then
Speaker 1: talking to Ryan, I was getting quite different Ryan, and
Speaker 1: I felt overwhelmed already and I was up. I was
Speaker 1: having a crisis in the in the few days leading
Speaker 1: up to shooting, like who is this guy? Specifically because
Speaker 1: it all happened quite quickly for being cost to get
Speaker 1: in to getting into the States. What was attractive to
Speaker 1: me was that his perception of himself. I think it
Speaker 1: was quite different from how other people perceived them and
Speaker 1: for me, that helped create like an arc from start
Speaker 1: to finish. Yeah, that's great. So also I'll swing this
Speaker 1: over to UH to India the same thing. What is
Speaker 1: it about the real life character and the character that
Speaker 1: attracted you to the role? For me, I just without
Speaker 1: sounding you know, contrived or anything. When I work, I
Speaker 1: tend to just focus on the energy before I focus
Speaker 1: on details. And you know, like I didn't really want
Speaker 1: to judge her on the script or on the article,
Speaker 1: and I really was waiting for that first phone call
Speaker 1: with her, and then I kind of took it from
Speaker 1: there perfect and so everything to you. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: at first, there was a lot that was really foreign
Speaker 1: to me. You know, like I'm an only child, I'm
Speaker 1: from New York City and this is a story about
Speaker 1: the oldest brother the family trying to kind of be
Speaker 1: like the father of that family. But I did relate to,
Speaker 1: Like I remember, I know, like with my friends at times,
Speaker 1: I have this very protective quality about two of my
Speaker 1: best best friends in particular, where like if something happened,
Speaker 1: they're both actors, and like, if something happens to them
Speaker 1: or it goes wrong with them, like I immediately want
Speaker 1: to try to like save them. And I think Dylan,
Speaker 1: he's really trying to save the people he loves in
Speaker 1: this kind of way, almost like a martyr, you know,
Speaker 1: like you would sacrifice himself for his family. So Sam, here,
Speaker 1: you read the script, there's this Ryan character hopefully that's
Speaker 1: on the page to some extent. Then you connect with
Speaker 1: him in real life, and then you of course kind
Speaker 1: of put your own dynamic on it as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I remember we were all out for lunch Mayeve memory
Speaker 1: in India, and you got up for a second and
Speaker 1: you came back to the table and handed me the phone.
Speaker 1: I'm like, Ryan's Ryan, and I was I wasn't expecting that,
Speaker 1: and oh no, like drop it on me, and I
Speaker 1: met I've met all of you guys in an American
Speaker 1: accent because I was trying to maintain it. So I
Speaker 1: I've got to speak to this guy that I'm playing
Speaker 1: as a brit pretending to be American, like I'm waiting
Speaker 1: for him to for the holes to start showing. And
Speaker 1: I was really flustered. And he got say Sam Hayd
Speaker 1: And I said, I'm I'm a good brand. How are
Speaker 1: you doing? And he says, I'm sitting in jail. How
Speaker 1: do you think I'm doing? And it was I didn't
Speaker 1: know how to respond to that, you know, his perception
Speaker 1: of himself versus I think his brothers and sister's perception
Speaker 1: of him too. Um, because I spoke to Emory in
Speaker 1: India and like, you know, I what did Dylan and
Speaker 1: Lee Grace say to you? And tried to see if
Speaker 1: the story is matched. Um, and Ryan had said to
Speaker 1: me in a matter of words that you know, he
Speaker 1: felt he was the brains of the operation. And to me,
Speaker 1: from what I had pieced together, it seems like Dylan
Speaker 1: was and Ryan to me, Ryan really really looked up
Speaker 1: to so India. You know, we talked about I don't
Speaker 1: want to call the skill. It's not a skill obviously,
Speaker 1: but kind of in that category of certain things you
Speaker 1: have to take on something that has no skills. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I went very talented there. But there is you know,
Speaker 1: it's public record and also something that Lee Grace has
Speaker 1: openly shared both in her interviews and as most of
Speaker 1: us spoken to her about her drug use, and there
Speaker 1: is drug use in the film. That character has her
Speaker 1: own relationship to drugs. Shall we say, what does that
Speaker 1: mean to you as an actor? Did that come into
Speaker 1: play with any of your sort of being cognizant of
Speaker 1: the reality of etcetera. That was a big, big part
Speaker 1: of every aspect of how I played her because she
Speaker 1: is she you know, even on the phone, she is
Speaker 1: she is very much an addict, like she has that
Speaker 1: kind of personality and that really does bleed into every
Speaker 1: every aspect of someone's life. And you know, I think
Speaker 1: it all without getting too introspective and boring, it all
Speaker 1: does kind of go back to her childhood and feeling
Speaker 1: deprived of what she she needs. That extra kick there
Speaker 1: was definitely a kind of a frenetic kind of place
Speaker 1: that she was in where it was never enough. That's
Speaker 1: kind of what what I picked up on. And that
Speaker 1: was something that I didn't get until I spoke to
Speaker 1: her on the phone, that constant unrest that she always has,
Speaker 1: like she can't relax, she's incapable of relaxing, even when
Speaker 1: she thinks she is. I'm not glorifying it or anything,
Speaker 1: but I found it a very very helpful hook in
Speaker 1: playing her. It's a direct line to where she's damaged.
Speaker 1: Very well. Put Yeah, there was, wasn't There's always this
Speaker 1: underlying sadness and even in real life too, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was the main thing I got from her. Like
Speaker 1: she'd be on a high and too'd be talking and
Speaker 1: stuff and she and you know, and so excited about something.
Speaker 1: She was like, yeah, man, it was it was fucking great.
Speaker 1: No, no no, no, and so and suddenly there'd be a
Speaker 1: quite a silence with her, but she just go and
Speaker 1: it was like those silences really spoke volumes to what
Speaker 1: was going on with her as a human being, in
Speaker 1: the type of person she had become become. That's so great,
Speaker 1: Thank you very well. Put so Embery from an audience
Speaker 1: perspective at the docrites as being these anti heroes. You know,
Speaker 1: how do you view them? Do you view them as
Speaker 1: anti heroes? You view Dylan is that you know, he's
Speaker 1: a hero, his story, you know what I mean, he's
Speaker 1: a rebel, which I guess in from society's terms to
Speaker 1: make him an anti hero. I found him, you know,
Speaker 1: just it's just I don't know if this answer is
Speaker 1: the question, but I know that when I was creating Dylan,
Speaker 1: I was very aware that this for me, a lot
Speaker 1: of the journey was him wanting to be his brother
Speaker 1: and sister's hero and saving them from trauma, as India
Speaker 1: says that it already happened, that he couldn't have saved
Speaker 1: them from that he wasn't in the position to save
Speaker 1: them from when they were kids, and him recognizing that
Speaker 1: that he couldn't be their hero and that it wasn't
Speaker 1: necessarily his responsibility and trying to find an acceptance of
Speaker 1: that that. I saw that as kind of a whatever
Speaker 1: you call it arc or whatever. The character in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways for his journey is is him breaking,
Speaker 1: is this facade of him being able to be this
Speaker 1: hero breaking, cracking and breaking down, you know, in the
Speaker 1: failure of his plan for for him, like achieving the
Speaker 1: goal of getting out of the bank probberty and all
Speaker 1: that and getting his his family to safety. You know,
Speaker 1: was sort of a breakdown on this facade of himself
Speaker 1: as this hero. I think ever he hit the nile
Speaker 1: on the head. I think really is perspective, isn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I really think that's it. It's it's perspective in the
Speaker 1: sense that they are the heroes of their own story
Speaker 1: and they feel that they have strong enough motive too
Speaker 1: to take such a big step and make the decision
Speaker 1: that they made too, you know, go on the run.
Speaker 1: I think it seems sorrh it, doesn't it to do
Speaker 1: things for your family, Like Emery said, Dylan was doing
Speaker 1: it for Lee, Grace and Ryan, and I think Ryan
Speaker 1: was doing it for for his kid too. My perspective
Speaker 1: of it is that I think their hands were forced
Speaker 1: slightly considering their situation. If you're gonna there's a there's
Speaker 1: a risk and there's a reward, you know, and the
Speaker 1: reward would have been that they would have made it,
Speaker 1: and the risk is that they didn't and they didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, so India any take without for you. Also,
Speaker 1: in REGARDSS toly Grace, I think, you know, the entire
Speaker 1: situation kind of which sounds just kind of brought up
Speaker 1: a good point is that you know, Dylan was doing
Speaker 1: it for his siblings, Ryan, he was doing it for
Speaker 1: you know, his you know, his lady and his baby.
Speaker 1: And I think that that was a big part of
Speaker 1: the emptiness that I mentioned is Lee Grace didn't feel
Speaker 1: like she really had anything. There wasn't really like a
Speaker 1: singular thing that she was living for at that point
Speaker 1: other than you know, her drugs and you know, to
Speaker 1: just keep keep going, keep moving forward and having fun.
Speaker 1: At times, she didn't have an emotional, you know, thing
Speaker 1: to cling onto. So there's always a lost aspect with her.
Speaker 1: And so I think she went throughout this, throughout this
Speaker 1: entire thing, really with no solid trajectory. There was no
Speaker 1: solidity to what she was doing. She was very much
Speaker 1: just loved her brothers and was just like, fine, fuck it,
Speaker 1: we'll do it. I don't view it as good or bad.
Speaker 1: I think they were three human beings that were born
Speaker 1: into a very very unfortunate set of circumstances. Is there
Speaker 1: anything that you can recollect about your character that really
Speaker 1: helped you understand them or to be able to play them.
Speaker 1: I grew up around that kind of environment, more like
Speaker 1: blue collar, and there are certain things that I feel
Speaker 1: do translate across between the two countries, you know. And yeah,
Speaker 1: little things like the smoking, and it changes the way
Speaker 1: you walk and save there's shots of us driving. There's
Speaker 1: just some shots of us driving in the car, like
Speaker 1: you can be driving or you can be driving and smoking.
Speaker 1: And it, to me, does it changes things a little
Speaker 1: bit because you tend to smoke when your board sometimes
Speaker 1: or to pass the time, and you know, I'm time
Speaker 1: was running out for them. I don't know what I'm
Speaker 1: trying to say here, but you know what makes sense
Speaker 1: for me. I didn't have smoking as a as a thing,
Speaker 1: but like as a physical thing to use. I did
Speaker 1: pick up the phone calls though that she those silences
Speaker 1: that I mentioned, I just kind of you know, when
Speaker 1: you when you bring in the drugs, um, because she
Speaker 1: loved pills. That was her big thing. And um, as
Speaker 1: far as the behavioral thing, I imagined that her eyes
Speaker 1: would always be kind of darting because she's always looking
Speaker 1: for something, so like there's always something that she doesn't have.
Speaker 1: And so whether it's pills or a person or you
Speaker 1: know that there's always something that she's just like outwardly
Speaker 1: looking for. She's it's that unrest. So, yeah, Dylan explained
Speaker 1: his life to me in prison sentences and pro violations
Speaker 1: and arrests, you know, like it was like his I
Speaker 1: think he's the first thing he say, he was like, well,
Speaker 1: the first time I got picked up, you know. And
Speaker 1: and so he didn't explain his life to me in
Speaker 1: the way that you know, what is child was like
Speaker 1: this or that he explained it to me in like
Speaker 1: prison sentences and things like that. And I know that
Speaker 1: for me, he gave me this awareness that there was
Speaker 1: these two worlds going on for him. There was this
Speaker 1: outside world and there was the inside world, where there
Speaker 1: was the world on parole and the world off parole.
Speaker 1: And I didn't know that world, you know, And and
Speaker 1: I remember being very aware of that. But it didn't
Speaker 1: start until his first arrest. There is first parole violation.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be
Speaker 1: back in a moment. Ryan's character is really seems to
Speaker 1: be motivated by the love of his son. He was
Speaker 1: at the time. This was all happening in their flight.
Speaker 1: You know, his girlfriend at the time, Amber, who he
Speaker 1: called his wife, and was heavily pregnant, and there was that.
Speaker 1: Did the real Ryan as I call him, did he
Speaker 1: mention his son? That all? Was that every part of
Speaker 1: your conversations? And also do you ever mention anything about
Speaker 1: his own upbringing? Again, it was like quite a long
Speaker 1: time ago now, so I I don't know how much
Speaker 1: I actually remembering or how much I and potentially not
Speaker 1: making up. But you know that happens, he said. I
Speaker 1: got the impression from him that him and leg Grace
Speaker 1: were especially close. I don't know if it's that was
Speaker 1: a maternal thing he felt. I got the impression it
Speaker 1: was maybe a kind of a maternal thing, and about
Speaker 1: is some I do remember him saying something that really
Speaker 1: struck me, but I can't remember how we said it,
Speaker 1: But it was the way in which he said it
Speaker 1: that was so effective. It was something It was words
Speaker 1: to the effect of, I I feel so guilty that
Speaker 1: I left my kid without a dad, you know, like
Speaker 1: he uh, the main thing I could really feel to
Speaker 1: regret that that he wasn't there to raise his kid.
Speaker 1: I don't know how he said it, to me, but
Speaker 1: I remember that being in the message and I found
Speaker 1: out really upsetting. You know, Oh, absolutely, well, that's that's again,
Speaker 1: that's very touching and pactful. You've got the chaos of
Speaker 1: the story throughout the movie, and then the chaos at
Speaker 1: the end with the with like a shootout essentially between
Speaker 1: the cops. He will be over their heads. The whole
Speaker 1: thing has been with little bits of rest by chaos,
Speaker 1: And I don't know personally if that's how it had
Speaker 1: played out in real life, how cognizant he would have
Speaker 1: been of actually getting gone down, because you think of
Speaker 1: all the other really risky stuff that they've done along
Speaker 1: the way. It's like in for we say in England,
Speaker 1: like him for a penny, in for a pound, like
Speaker 1: you've you've gotten this far and somehow you are still
Speaker 1: being I think that his legs carried him. I don't
Speaker 1: think he had any saying a matter. So I've got
Speaker 1: to get back, you know, very very well, put India,
Speaker 1: Can you expand on anything else that really spoke to
Speaker 1: you about once you did connect with her in real life?
Speaker 1: You know, again, I hate to sound like a broken record,
Speaker 1: but it really was just her. Her personality was such
Speaker 1: a strong one. I mean, she's such a spitfire. She
Speaker 1: just came through the phone and immediately I just loved her,
Speaker 1: Like it was just like I'm like, gosh, she's a blast.
Speaker 1: There's an avoidant quality to her that I found was
Speaker 1: very interesting where she'll just and I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people who have experienced trauma have this where they'll
Speaker 1: just say it like very matter of fact ly, you
Speaker 1: know what's happened to them and did details that have
Speaker 1: happened in their lives, and they're very kind of heavy
Speaker 1: horrowing things. And like she would say something to me
Speaker 1: and like a really personal thing and I'd be like, wait, wait,
Speaker 1: wait what was that? What was that? And she she said,
Speaker 1: oh yeah and so and then she just like me
Speaker 1: say it again, and I was like okay, and inside
Speaker 1: and like that's a really upsetting thing, Like that's a
Speaker 1: really I don't really want to say it just out
Speaker 1: of respect to her, but just little things like that
Speaker 1: where it was more her demeanor towards these hardships that
Speaker 1: happened to her and how she handled it, and she
Speaker 1: was very kind of resilient in her way. So that's great. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna embarrass you, Sam, please forgive me as I recall.
Speaker 1: So here's the context and step. So, Ryan in particular
Speaker 1: is known to be and it's someone on public record
Speaker 1: quite the actual driver, like a very good driver, and
Speaker 1: was the driver for this. I think you know where
Speaker 1: I'm going with this. Can you expand on that a bit, um,
Speaker 1: what that was to you and what was unique about
Speaker 1: that for you in particular? Well, I found out that
Speaker 1: I was I was going to get to do the movie,
Speaker 1: and I was really excited. And then a few days
Speaker 1: later you and one of the producer's FaceTime and they're like,
Speaker 1: so you can drive right, and I'm like, long, oh,
Speaker 1: Ryan's the gataway driver. Oh. But luckily once we got
Speaker 1: to the South, our stunt coordinator took me out in
Speaker 1: a closed parking lot and gave me the basics, gave
Speaker 1: me to run down on how to drive, and I
Speaker 1: think we got through it okay, you know, um, And
Speaker 1: what I don't know what I really appreciated is, uh,
Speaker 1: the Emory and India were both extremely patient with me.
Speaker 1: I've got these two actors in the car like pressure
Speaker 1: on man, and I think Emory maybe had similar experiences
Speaker 1: to me in the past and memory you had some
Speaker 1: sort of mantra. There was something happened when we were
Speaker 1: driving and I, as Dylan, just said something like slow
Speaker 1: and steady or common rely and it I know what
Speaker 1: Sam's talking about, because like, you booked this job and
Speaker 1: you're like excited and you're ready to go, and you
Speaker 1: don't even read that stuff like Ryan's gotten or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: where's my dialogue? Where's where? Where do I get to
Speaker 1: say stuff? And then all of a sudden you're there
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh fuck, I have to like do this.
Speaker 1: So I knew exactly what he was going through and
Speaker 1: he was great. Man. He killed it with with all
Speaker 1: this stuff, especially with the driving. Yeah. Wait so so
Speaker 1: so just to say weren't hit anything, I've hit things
Speaker 1: like not like cars and like and you know I've
Speaker 1: done it. You know that's great anything. Let me just
Speaker 1: add let me just add to that. There was one
Speaker 1: day when we were filming in there in the used
Speaker 1: car lot and I was supposed to reverse into the
Speaker 1: parking spot, but the car wasn't driving, and the cameras
Speaker 1: right in front of me and stepped on the accelerator.
Speaker 1: It's gone forward a break. It's so good, it's so good.
Speaker 1: So that's just I love hearing this stuff. It's great.
Speaker 1: We did ask you that. It was like, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously Sam's probably used to driving on the other side
Speaker 1: the road. We're just gonna make sure it's comfortable. And
Speaker 1: then yes, we did find out that you want a
Speaker 1: driver like you didn't drive, so you had to pick
Speaker 1: up that skill with us, and you did a wonderful
Speaker 1: job with it. Like, I've never played a real person
Speaker 1: that hadn't passed. I played a real person but he
Speaker 1: died in like, so it's really strange to play a
Speaker 1: real person that was still alive and is going to
Speaker 1: have an opinion on this, you know, and it's his
Speaker 1: life and it's going to people are to say this
Speaker 1: and form their own opinions. There's a lot of pressure,
Speaker 1: and I think all of it, like working with Emory
Speaker 1: in India and and trying to stay in the accent
Speaker 1: and trying to do right by Ryan, the pressure was
Speaker 1: so on that, yeah, you you carry that in inevitably,
Speaker 1: But for me, like, I really felt like it kept
Speaker 1: me sharp because I think it could have been a
Speaker 1: hindrance where you just get too overwhelmed and you start
Speaker 1: and you know, falling apart, but I found it to
Speaker 1: be really good. I mean, it's one of my favorite
Speaker 1: experiences I've ever had them in. It was so great.
Speaker 1: So Emory, let me kick this over to you. You know,
Speaker 1: did a rig and had you tied and tethered into
Speaker 1: the car so you could really lean out and did
Speaker 1: that stunt and we did it in a practical sense
Speaker 1: of using you and you were wonderful. It looks amazing. Again,
Speaker 1: did that have an imprint or impressure on you? I
Speaker 1: think even still now, that was like one of the
Speaker 1: most extensive sort of stunt things that I've ever done.
Speaker 1: You know, there were of times we didn't free driving
Speaker 1: too and like, yeah, sure that I'm tied into something
Speaker 1: in the car, but I was hanging out of a car,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Just I was like thinking
Speaker 1: about the movie and I was like, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be really good for the movie. This is gonna make
Speaker 1: the movie look good because I was scared, but I
Speaker 1: was also really excited to kind of do it. And
Speaker 1: it's sometimes those things link up. Like obviously, for Dylan
Speaker 1: in the real life situation, getting his family into safety
Speaker 1: is a much different circumstance than being an actor in
Speaker 1: a movie trying to get a cool shot. Very few
Speaker 1: people in the entire existence of humanity who've hung outside
Speaker 1: of a car that's been chased by a cop and
Speaker 1: shot at a cop. Obviously that was the real story
Speaker 1: with the real Dylan. You had that experience obviously in
Speaker 1: a play setting, shall we say, you know, in a
Speaker 1: film setting, not reality. But you know, when you're experiencing that,
Speaker 1: are you in some way channeling that real experience that
Speaker 1: he might have had, or you thinking about a million
Speaker 1: other things, like just hold on tight, I mean, you
Speaker 1: want to be honest. I remember thinking like, I hope
Speaker 1: this looks really cool. I can't remember. I remember thinking
Speaker 1: like I read minded myself of watching movies like The
Speaker 1: Last Action Hero or right, you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: like all these fun like action movies and though as
Speaker 1: a kid, and I've never really done a proper action movie.
Speaker 1: And this was my opportunity to have, you know, my
Speaker 1: best Sylvester Stallowe moment. And I was like, I had
Speaker 1: an adrenaline rush. You know, there's a lot of adrenaline
Speaker 1: that kicks through you when you're gonna do something like that,
Speaker 1: and it and it excited me, and I wanted to
Speaker 1: look cool, so and I don't know, I look but
Speaker 1: you know that was that was that was the experience
Speaker 1: for me. Um that and being really scared. It was
Speaker 1: I'm really scared, but I want to look cool. Wait. Wait,
Speaker 1: that brings up a great a great point. There was
Speaker 1: a moment where the three of you are in the
Speaker 1: car right before the bank robbery and you were just
Speaker 1: riffing on that whole thing about Okay, this is how
Speaker 1: this is gonna go down, bang bang bang. You you said,
Speaker 1: in Dylan's voice, if you will, let's make it just
Speaker 1: like in the movies, and you put the masks on,
Speaker 1: you go and you where did you come up with that?
Speaker 1: Me and you and would talk about how Dylan was
Speaker 1: a movie buff. That that was a big part, like
Speaker 1: Dylan was a movie buff, Dylan new movies, Dylan loved movies.
Speaker 1: I know. I said to you that I couldn't figure
Speaker 1: out in the performance how much of it to make
Speaker 1: it super authentic and how much of it was performative.
Speaker 1: And then I think some of it was like you
Speaker 1: know again, like I've never shot at bank robbery scene
Speaker 1: and that you know, Bonnie and Clyde, it's my favorite
Speaker 1: dog Day afternoon you know, these there are iconic bank
Speaker 1: robbery scenes. And I think that there was a part
Speaker 1: of me, like the movie buff for me and the
Speaker 1: little boy, and me was really excited that we were
Speaker 1: shooting this kind of this thing, you know, where what
Speaker 1: we do is ma believe. And it's like when we're kids,
Speaker 1: where you're playing. You know, I'll be the cop, you'll
Speaker 1: be the robber. I'll be the robber, you'll be the cop,
Speaker 1: you know, And and I think I just that just
Speaker 1: kind of came over. These characters were aware that this
Speaker 1: was gonna make the five o'clock news or the six
Speaker 1: o'clock news. You know that that they had an awareness
Speaker 1: of that and that in some ways that it was
Speaker 1: performative what they were trying to do. You know, you absolutely,
Speaker 1: let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back
Speaker 1: at a moment. We again got lucky for the film
Speaker 1: to get the chance to shoot in a real bank.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously there's extras that are recreating being the
Speaker 1: real customers of the bank and with the bank tellers.
Speaker 1: What was that like for you and recreating that. I
Speaker 1: always get nervous about how loud it's gonna be, because
Speaker 1: you also have to look like because my characters anticipating
Speaker 1: that Lee Grace comes in and unloads these shows, so
Speaker 1: they know what's going on. And like we've said, like
Speaker 1: our characters are used to being around gunfire. The way
Speaker 1: that we shot that day, at least the way I
Speaker 1: remember it, we shot like the practical stunt elements and
Speaker 1: gunfire elements first and then shot my kind of little
Speaker 1: speech up there. It just helped me feel comfortable. The
Speaker 1: script opens with that scene, you know, So it was
Speaker 1: definitely something that when I saw it on the schedule,
Speaker 1: you start getting butterflies and and excited and nervous and
Speaker 1: all the rest. And I think part of it too
Speaker 1: is the whole make it look like the movies. I
Speaker 1: think we actually shot that after we had finished all
Speaker 1: the bank work, so there was kind of this I
Speaker 1: there was this kind of ease for me that that
Speaker 1: speech was out of the way and the gunfire was
Speaker 1: out of the way and we could just shoot the
Speaker 1: beginning bit. So India just swinging over to you on
Speaker 1: that once they went on the run, once they robbed
Speaker 1: a bank in some sort of control, this control that
Speaker 1: they never had, and your character in particular comes barging
Speaker 1: into the bank even though I will say that there
Speaker 1: were a couple of lines that, even though I knew
Speaker 1: that in post it would be fixed, my energy was
Speaker 1: the adrenaline. I like Emory was saying, like the butterflies,
Speaker 1: and the adrenaline was so for me anyway, was suddenly
Speaker 1: kicked into high get like right before we started filming,
Speaker 1: and so I started kind of not fully getting my
Speaker 1: line out, and I remember that making me even more frantic. Um.
Speaker 1: In regards to the control aspect for the characters, I think,
Speaker 1: I mean, it must have just been like an alternate
Speaker 1: reality for that moment where they kind of click into
Speaker 1: you know, it's a false sense of control, and at
Speaker 1: least the way that I approached it was. I think
Speaker 1: in that moment she wasn't really she did wasn't really
Speaker 1: cognizant of the of the reality of what she was
Speaker 1: doing or what they were doing. And so it did
Speaker 1: kind of Lincoln in a nice way because I was
Speaker 1: actually having a blast watching up where you do the speech,
Speaker 1: and then Sam had a gag with the shotgun and stuff,
Speaker 1: so I was actually enjoying watching both of them. But um,
Speaker 1: I think in a way as as the character as well,
Speaker 1: she was with her brothers, and it was like it
Speaker 1: was almost like playtime in a way. That was kind
Speaker 1: of how I treated it. So as far as you know,
Speaker 1: the energy of running in and doing all of that,
Speaker 1: it was more just like an adrenaline, like playing a game,
Speaker 1: and she wasn't really it was more like the that
Speaker 1: And then she doesn't really realize the weight of what
Speaker 1: she's doing fully, but she does, but she is. She
Speaker 1: kind of that the excitement of it overtakes the logic
Speaker 1: perfect and so everything to you, Um, what about the
Speaker 1: character in particular attracted you you to playing the role? Um?
Speaker 1: And and what was your impression of that. I remember
Speaker 1: when I read this script, you know, I found Dylan
Speaker 1: to be really charming, and when I spoke to him
Speaker 1: on the phone, he didn't he he was very very charming. Um.
Speaker 1: And there's also you know, there was kind of like
Speaker 1: a kindness of the way they went about doing what
Speaker 1: they did, and that you know, like in the scene
Speaker 1: where we robbed the bank, Uh, Dylan's he's like this
Speaker 1: elderly woman on the floor and he gets down eas
Speaker 1: his man, do you want to do you want to
Speaker 1: take a seat? You know, sit down? You know, And
Speaker 1: there was something that that interests me, and that you know,
Speaker 1: they come charging into this bank, guns drawn, everyone on
Speaker 1: the ground, and then he sees, you know, an elderly
Speaker 1: person and he's like, oh no, no, let's get this
Speaker 1: person a chair, you know, like you know, and so
Speaker 1: I found that to be kind of attractive. I remember
Speaker 1: the phone call I remember the most was actually the
Speaker 1: last phone call that I had with him, because it
Speaker 1: was this crazy thing that happened. It was the night
Speaker 1: we wrapped shooting and he called me, and I thought
Speaker 1: that either Sean or Cassidy, that someone had informed him
Speaker 1: that this was that that would be the last night,
Speaker 1: but it was it was just happenstance. He just, I
Speaker 1: don't know, he picked up the phone, you know, and
Speaker 1: we had this really cool talk because in the beginning,
Speaker 1: you know, I was learning from him and learning about him,
Speaker 1: and in this end talk, you know, we were I
Speaker 1: was just kind of talking to him about the movie
Speaker 1: and how like the experience was really good, and how
Speaker 1: I felt like everyone was really committed and that hopefully
Speaker 1: we would have made him proud, you know, and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and we kind of had this nice sort
Speaker 1: of goodbye that just happened really organically and I remember
Speaker 1: like that because the phone calls leading up, they're like
Speaker 1: mired with all this anxiety of like starting shooting, you know.
Speaker 1: And what I remember and what I don't remember is
Speaker 1: a little unclear, but I distinctly remember that last phone call,
Speaker 1: like calling him, calling and being like, oh, hey, Sean
Speaker 1: must have told you. He was like, no, Sean didn't
Speaker 1: tell me anything. What's going on? And I was like, oh, dude,
Speaker 1: we we wrapped, like we're we just finished. And so
Speaker 1: that was a really that was a crazy experience, but
Speaker 1: it was really nice. It was really nice to kind
Speaker 1: of for me to let the character go, but again,
Speaker 1: like there's that pressure, you know, we get to let
Speaker 1: these things go and move on. It was strange. I
Speaker 1: don't know if he felt it like he felt that
Speaker 1: that this because I felt Dylan sort of leaving me,
Speaker 1: you know, just in that actory way of whatever. And
Speaker 1: we finished shooting right before Thanksgiving, and I know, I
Speaker 1: was flying back to New York to see my family,
Speaker 1: and I had been on the road for a while shooting,
Speaker 1: and you know when you're shooting, especially something like this
Speaker 1: where it's like it was me, India and Sam and
Speaker 1: you of course and everyone else, but like there's a
Speaker 1: couple other actors came in and came out, but like
Speaker 1: it was me. India and Sam kind of lived together
Speaker 1: for like five weeks, and so they had become like
Speaker 1: a family to me during that time. And being away
Speaker 1: from home and away from people and stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: that time of year is always a shift for me.
Speaker 1: It's like because you're getting in the holidays and you're remembering,
Speaker 1: you know, the year that's passed and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So that that was what I remember the most about
Speaker 1: all that time and stuff. So so India, again, not
Speaker 1: to put you on the spot with that same question,
Speaker 1: but do you have a recollection of that final uh
Speaker 1: scene which is the goodbye and it was also the
Speaker 1: goodbye to the experience that we had for production. If
Speaker 1: I had to imagine what the three of them felt
Speaker 1: when they were finally separated and it was over and
Speaker 1: they were all being you know, going off on their
Speaker 1: own and and you know, knowing that they're probably never
Speaker 1: gonna you know that that that chapter of their lives
Speaker 1: are are done, is done. Like when the arrests were
Speaker 1: being filmed, when we were doing that, it was just
Speaker 1: a very kind of empty fear knowing that I had
Speaker 1: that I hadn't really had on a job before. It
Speaker 1: wasn't really like we did it kind of wrapped for
Speaker 1: me anyway, I kind of got very sensitive and I
Speaker 1: felt kind of depressed after the job ended. Where it
Speaker 1: was it was for the first time for me, it
Speaker 1: was kind of hard to leave the character behind because
Speaker 1: it was such a distinct vibe that the three of
Speaker 1: us had and that that was there during filming, and
Speaker 1: it was a very weighty energy. It was like it
Speaker 1: I loved working with everyone, but I wouldn't call it
Speaker 1: like a really happy shoot. There was a definite heaviness
Speaker 1: that and I think all three of us were aware
Speaker 1: of it at all times. And so Sam, same to you,
Speaker 1: do you have a recollection of that at that point?
Speaker 1: For me, like it was it has been a voyage
Speaker 1: because I feel like his siblings were his heroes for sure,
Speaker 1: but then he's got this perspective no family on the
Speaker 1: way split, you know, definitely, Yeah, you have this really
Speaker 1: wonderful moment there where it appears, And what we're trying
Speaker 1: to portray is that you know, the cops essentially, you know,
Speaker 1: catch up to you, and you know, we we took
Speaker 1: a little artistic license here um again for time, and
Speaker 1: they you know, ask you to put your weapon down
Speaker 1: and they do the takedown as opposed to in real life.
Speaker 1: It was actually a regular bystander that actually took Ryan down.
Speaker 1: Believe or not saw the chase happening. I got involved.
Speaker 1: That was a little more complex than we had the
Speaker 1: chance to get into. Well, guys, listen, we I am
Speaker 1: so grateful and thank you for letting me kind of
Speaker 1: rush to the finish line at the end. But you, guys,
Speaker 1: and I'm not just saying this, you were brilliant as always.
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised in the least, and I just really
Speaker 1: want to thank you for your time and anything else
Speaker 1: that you want to throw in or we feel great
Speaker 1: about this. Wanted to say that it really was a
Speaker 1: very special experience, and thank you Sean for you know,
Speaker 1: bringing me a board, because it was. It was a
Speaker 1: really special experience. That's it. That's awesome. And and we
Speaker 1: say the part about how you think I'm the most
Speaker 1: handsome director you've ever worked with, member, we practiced that earlier.
Speaker 1: Sean's the most director I ever worked I'm kidding, the
Speaker 1: most handsomest handsome exact totally teasing, um Okay, thank you
Speaker 1: guys so much. Please have a great rest of your evening.
Speaker 1: Get to say everyone so I'm nice. All the best
Speaker 1: to you guys. Thank you, thank you. This was absolutely
Speaker 1: I couldn't be more pleased. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Bye.
Speaker 1: Here Sean with podcast producer Joseph Morgan. You've known the
Speaker 1: story for quite some time, even close to it. If
Speaker 1: you had one thing that you want people to take
Speaker 1: away from it, what would that be? But for these kids,
Speaker 1: in particular, for every step they took in life, it's
Speaker 1: like they took four steps backwards. It's like no one
Speaker 1: ever truly dosed them with mercy and it it's isn't
Speaker 1: it interesting? How just that one that one simple act
Speaker 1: of kindness, of indulgence maybe for them, could have made
Speaker 1: all the difference in the world. But yet, you know,
Speaker 1: because you don't have a mailbox, we're gonna throw years
Speaker 1: in jail. We're gonna we're gonna put you in the deepest,
Speaker 1: darkest part of it. Yeah, you're gonna feel like you
Speaker 1: you're absent hope, any kind of hope that that there's
Speaker 1: any kind of light at the tunnel. And that is tragic,
Speaker 1: That is tragedy. Writer director Sean McEwen had some final
Speaker 1: thoughts on the Dougherty story. I think for me, the
Speaker 1: one thing that I would want people to take away
Speaker 1: from the story is being able to begin to understand
Speaker 1: that which is not understandable when I first heard the story.
Speaker 1: I think it's probably like most anybody who may have
Speaker 1: started this podcast, it's like, oh, crazy bells and whistles,
Speaker 1: the selaious belt and whistles. It's like a former stripper
Speaker 1: now tooting an a K forty seven and he's crazy easy.
Speaker 1: Two brothers and sister, Bonnie, Clyde and Clyde and there
Speaker 1: you know anything, shots with cops and Robbie Banks. And
Speaker 1: this is so unlike anything I've ever done or experienced,
Speaker 1: or probably the majority of the population is very unique.
Speaker 1: But the deeper you get into it, you realize how
Speaker 1: much this is like all of our stories in some
Speaker 1: way in a way, a couple of less and rights
Speaker 1: and this could have been me. I mean, it's similar
Speaker 1: in a way so many ways to again my background
Speaker 1: and that kind of hurl upbringing assault of earth and
Speaker 1: and you know their path led them this way, and
Speaker 1: some of it was they're responsible for this, were their choices,
Speaker 1: and some of it was truly circumstance. If you're over
Speaker 1: eighteen years old and want to see pictures of Lee
Speaker 1: Grace and Ryan Dougherty or find their addresses to write
Speaker 1: them in prison, go to our Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying this podcast, please listen and subscribe to
Speaker 1: Crazy and Love, Katie Studio's latest true crime podcast. The
Speaker 1: Dougherty Gang is executive produced by Stephanie lie Decker and
Speaker 1: me Courtney Armstrong, along with Beth Greenwald, Seaun McEwen, and
Speaker 1: Joseph Morgan. Editing and sound design is by Jeff Tis.
Speaker 1: Additional producing by Chris Graves and Jeff Shane. The Docritor
Speaker 1: Gang is a production of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.