WEBVTT - Former CIA Ops Chief: Trump's Iran Strike Was Big Win

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Penel Podcast. I'm Paul swing you,

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<v Speaker 1>along with my co host Lisa Brahma wits. Each day

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<v Speaker 1>we bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for

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<v Speaker 1>you and your money. Whether at the grocery store or

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<v Speaker 1>the trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple

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<v Speaker 1>podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as

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<v Speaker 1>at Bloomberg dot com. Well, we're back to green on

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<v Speaker 1>the screen risk on. It appears that the geopolitical risk

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<v Speaker 1>that have been royaling markets over the past couple days

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<v Speaker 1>seems to have abated here. We might be at the

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<v Speaker 1>tail end of that, but let's get some color on

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<v Speaker 1>the Middle East in general and what's going on between

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<v Speaker 1>us and around. There's nobody better to do that with

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<v Speaker 1>than our friend Jack Divine, Jack's founding partner and president

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<v Speaker 1>of the ark And Group, was also the former chief

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<v Speaker 1>of CIA's worldwide operations, and it's also the author of

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<v Speaker 1>a great book, Good Hunting, a Spymaster Story, which I

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<v Speaker 1>do recommend. Jack. Thanks so much for joining us here

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<v Speaker 1>in our Bloomberg Interact their Brokers studio. So the past

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<v Speaker 1>few days have been very event all the US, Iran

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<v Speaker 1>give us your sense of what President Trump tried to

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<v Speaker 1>do when he took out this general, right. I think

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<v Speaker 1>the first thing I would say is this is the

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<v Speaker 1>really the first real challenge in the foreign policy arended

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<v Speaker 1>that the president his face, the stakes were as high

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<v Speaker 1>as high as you got. Um. The other thing that

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<v Speaker 1>I would note is when you look at the decision

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<v Speaker 1>making process, there was a process where people did input,

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<v Speaker 1>He made a made a decision. I think the turning point,

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<v Speaker 1>and particularly for him, was when the embassy was charged.

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<v Speaker 1>Right now, whether the ronny has actually thought they were

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<v Speaker 1>going to get as far and they planned, but that

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<v Speaker 1>was where the red line was really covered. When I

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<v Speaker 1>saw that, I knew there was going to be a

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<v Speaker 1>major kinetic response by the president. And I think in

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<v Speaker 1>the end, so the money was just on the list

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<v Speaker 1>and he moved up for a long time. Many of

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<v Speaker 1>the people in intelligence military area, we're hoping somebody would

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<v Speaker 1>authorize his removal. Now he's been around a long time.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not that he's a bad guy. You're really talking

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<v Speaker 1>about the core of terrorism for Iran for the last

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five years. So that was a major blow. And um,

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<v Speaker 1>I think as I read the paper today, when they

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<v Speaker 1>went to the hill, Um the intelligence community, UM said

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<v Speaker 1>on the balance, take him out. When you were listening

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<v Speaker 1>to President Trump's announcement about the events and basically declaring victory,

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<v Speaker 1>although not doing a victory dance, his first comments were

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<v Speaker 1>about not having nuclear weapons in Iran. Why was that

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<v Speaker 1>so important to you? I think it's the most important

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<v Speaker 1>part of the speech because the time, by the time

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<v Speaker 1>he stood up on the podium, that we had already deescalated.

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<v Speaker 1>Ranny said this is the end of it. And once

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<v Speaker 1>they said that made it possible to move on. I

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<v Speaker 1>think the key point here, and if you're sitting in

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<v Speaker 1>to run, the key sentences you will not have a

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear weapon, all right. That is as hard of a

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<v Speaker 1>red line as you can get. So, as I mentioned offline,

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<v Speaker 1>and I have a lot of respect for the run

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<v Speaker 1>as I used to run around in operations in the

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<v Speaker 1>mid eighties, they are very very good, very smart at negotiationing,

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<v Speaker 1>finding the right line, and I think what they did

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<v Speaker 1>demonstrated their sensitivity to it. If I were in to

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<v Speaker 1>run and heard the first sentence, I think the conclusion

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<v Speaker 1>is would be, you know, we're not going to have

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear weapons, so how do we turn this into an advantage,

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<v Speaker 1>and that is why don't we act like we're getting

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<v Speaker 1>a nuclear weapon and get back to the table and

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<v Speaker 1>negotiate away something we're never going to have anyway. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's a real possibility here that in the

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<v Speaker 1>weeks ahead there will be some movement towards returning to

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<v Speaker 1>negotiations and a back off of this, because I think

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<v Speaker 1>at the end of the day, I think Trump did

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<v Speaker 1>demonstrate that, you know, we're not just looking to go

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<v Speaker 1>to the war. They're finding the cruise missiles should be

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<v Speaker 1>a reminder you know, this is not going to be

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<v Speaker 1>a bloodless event. So Jack, you know, part of the

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<v Speaker 1>administration's I guess reasoning for UH doing this operation against

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<v Speaker 1>this general was that there was evidence of an imminent attack.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that's accurate. I don't know if it

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<v Speaker 1>was accurate. I think it's the wrong question, not from you,

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<v Speaker 1>but from the world. I would have asked, is he

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<v Speaker 1>going to stop what he's been doing for twenty five years?

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<v Speaker 1>If you go back and taking down bombing our embassy,

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<v Speaker 1>kidnapping a CIA official torture, I mean, when was it

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<v Speaker 1>going to stop A thousand I think people ustimator that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of racist question, why now is it? Well, I

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<v Speaker 1>think the impeachment sitting there looks awful convenient, and we've

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<v Speaker 1>seen it before from presidents President Clinton. I think the

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<v Speaker 1>trigger was actually the assault on the embassy that okay,

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<v Speaker 1>they backed off with what happens tomorrow, and there was

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<v Speaker 1>not going to be Benghazi, so it was I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>saying this is a fact because I don't know, but

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<v Speaker 1>my assumption is the threat was considered so real that

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<v Speaker 1>we were vulnerable. The only way you back them off.

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<v Speaker 1>And I would make this this one point. We here

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<v Speaker 1>in the United States often underestimate, both in the policy

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<v Speaker 1>arena in the private community, what power means. In the

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<v Speaker 1>Middle East. You really have to exercise. And I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>saying you have forced issues, but it is very much

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<v Speaker 1>respected and it should be used audiciously. If you don't

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<v Speaker 1>use it, you also open up Pandora's box. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>question here. If this was a true de escalation that

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<v Speaker 1>we've seen and it's done, then it's being perceived by

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<v Speaker 1>yourself included as a big victory for President Trump. Some

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<v Speaker 1>people say, look over to North Korea, what message does

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<v Speaker 1>this send to Kim Jong un? It's a it's a

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<v Speaker 1>win for America, and I think we need to look

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<v Speaker 1>at that. I mean, this is a big setback for

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<v Speaker 1>terrorism and put a new red line down. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>this is important to us. The second thing is one

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<v Speaker 1>of the problems we have an international relation is how

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<v Speaker 1>we roll in the war is when we have misjudgments

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<v Speaker 1>about each other. That's why I like dialogue in private

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<v Speaker 1>as well as public, so that we never misjudge each other,

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<v Speaker 1>or we have read phones that we can communicate. But

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<v Speaker 1>in every capital of the world after this, there was

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<v Speaker 1>a recalibration, I promise you. In in in North Korea,

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<v Speaker 1>they're sitting there saying, okay, there there are new red lines.

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<v Speaker 1>And you should realize that America and this administration is

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<v Speaker 1>prepared to use power in ways that have not been

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<v Speaker 1>used for some time. What would you say to somebody

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<v Speaker 1>who said that that Kim Jong is actually emboldened to

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<v Speaker 1>create a nuclear weapon now in order to prevent a

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<v Speaker 1>drone from taking him out. Well, he has nuclear weapons.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the that's the challenge in this equation. Um, and

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<v Speaker 1>once you have one, uh, it put you a new

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<v Speaker 1>ball game. Was none of us Well, I'm just worldwide,

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<v Speaker 1>no one can withstand a single nuclear attack, it changes

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<v Speaker 1>the way the world will look at itself going forward.

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<v Speaker 1>So he has to be dealt with differently than UH

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<v Speaker 1>than Iran, and you have South Korea the neighbor. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think the challenge here is to get him to

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<v Speaker 1>not make any more and maybe over time to Amelia

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<v Speaker 1>to lesson ceful back off. I don't think he'll ever

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<v Speaker 1>give up the nuclear weapons, but we might be able

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<v Speaker 1>to freeze them, and that's basically what's been going on

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<v Speaker 1>in the past year. If we can hold that position,

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<v Speaker 1>that may be the best that we can hope for.

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<v Speaker 1>But I do promise you that he's going to calibrate.

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<v Speaker 1>If he fires a missile, better not be too near

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<v Speaker 1>an American chip or that one of our allies. It'll

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<v Speaker 1>he will calibrate them, do not. I mean, he and

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<v Speaker 1>the Koreans have been looking at us the way the

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<v Speaker 1>Uranians do. They study us day and night, and his

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<v Speaker 1>next move will be just like the assault by Iranians,

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<v Speaker 1>will be a calibrated one. But I think it's much

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<v Speaker 1>better for everybody around the world that's in a power

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<v Speaker 1>position to look at us as if we would use power.

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<v Speaker 1>It does it reduces tension. I mean reduces UH confrontation,

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<v Speaker 1>not increases them. Jack Divine, so great to have your perspective.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for being here with us. Jack

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<v Speaker 1>Divine is founding partner and president of the Arkan Group,

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<v Speaker 1>former chief of CIA's worldwide Operations who has personal experience

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<v Speaker 1>negotiating with a lot of it, a lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>nations that we're talking about, So really a pivotal perspective

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<v Speaker 1>here for us to be getting well. We speak to

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of economists here on this program, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think the consensus is that as it relates to US

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<v Speaker 1>GDP growth in maybe two ish, which is still growing obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>but slower than what we've become accustomed to. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>often good to talk to the folks in the corporate

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<v Speaker 1>c suite to get a sense of what their economic

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<v Speaker 1>outlook is. And our next guest does just that, Sandy Cockerell,

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<v Speaker 1>Global CFO program leader at Deloitte based in New York City. Sandy,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks so much for joining us. I know you guys

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<v Speaker 1>just came out with your fourth quarter CFO survey. What

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<v Speaker 1>are some of the key takeaways? So, Paul, thanks very much. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>our fourth quarter survey really kind of centered on three

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<v Speaker 1>themes that came across. Number one, Um, CFOs are are cautious.

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<v Speaker 1>Number two we saw a fair amount of pessimism, and

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<v Speaker 1>number three really some defensive posturing that's starting to happen. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>Of the CFOs expect a downturn to to to hit

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<v Speaker 1>US sometime by the end of But the silver lining

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<v Speaker 1>there is only three expect a technical recession. So that's

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<v Speaker 1>actually improved from when we asked this question back in

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<v Speaker 1>the first quarter. It's also buttressed by the fact when

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<v Speaker 1>we looked at growth metrics that are forecasted over the

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<v Speaker 1>next twelve months around revenue, earnings, capital spending, hiring, those

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<v Speaker 1>all those projections were down as well and sit really

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<v Speaker 1>at near low levels of our history of our survey.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm wondering whether if you were to do this survey now,

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<v Speaker 1>it would be different. Do you think so given a

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<v Speaker 1>fact that we've got some sort of trade truths between

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<v Speaker 1>the US and China, Uh, they might be feeling a

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<v Speaker 1>little more positive. Uh. Possibly in discussions I have with

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<v Speaker 1>clients and in the marketplace. Um, again, you really hit

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<v Speaker 1>the nail on the head. The real key is around

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<v Speaker 1>trade policy, and I think if we could get to

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<v Speaker 1>a point where we had a deal, especially with the

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<v Speaker 1>US China trade policy, you'd really see a tail wind

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<v Speaker 1>here pick up pretty quickly. So send it just to

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<v Speaker 1>be clear, think there's going to be a recession in

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<v Speaker 1>or just a slowing, a slow down, a downturn. So

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<v Speaker 1>and when we asked this question back in the first

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<v Speaker 1>quarter at that point expected a downturn by the end

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<v Speaker 1>of but fient, we're expecting an actual technical recession. That

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<v Speaker 1>number is now only three per sense, so certainly an improvement.

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<v Speaker 1>And what people were thinking nine months ago, did they

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<v Speaker 1>say anything about the rising costs of commodities for workers

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<v Speaker 1>as wages rise, how much that's sort of affecting their

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<v Speaker 1>outlook am paired with the opportunities for them to actually

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<v Speaker 1>increase profits. Yeah, so in terms of external concerns, trade

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<v Speaker 1>policies number one. But rising labor and input prices certainly

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<v Speaker 1>is something that they've gotten on. The labor type market

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<v Speaker 1>is just so tight, um and not only is it tight,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, what we're seeing is the you know kind

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<v Speaker 1>of really the revitalization the change in workforce for for

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<v Speaker 1>holly skilled labor. And that's really on the mind of CFOs,

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<v Speaker 1>is you really have to pay for that talent, So Sandy,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the things just thinking about CFOs and and

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<v Speaker 1>the c suite in general, it's not just the bottom

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<v Speaker 1>line and delivering results the shareholders, is also seemingly greater

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<v Speaker 1>demands upon you know, being a good corporate citizen, whether

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<v Speaker 1>it's the environment. What are CFOs saying about some of

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<v Speaker 1>the pressures or some of the responsibilities and demands that

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<v Speaker 1>are being placed upon them that maybe they didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>a generation to go right. So this this quarter we

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<v Speaker 1>ask some special questions around climate change UM and we

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<v Speaker 1>actually work together with our European colleagues and the surveys

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<v Speaker 1>that they execute very similar findings. But over seventy of

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<v Speaker 1>the CFOs have noted at least moderate pressure coming from employees, investors,

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<v Speaker 1>customers and boards in terms of dealing with climate change

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<v Speaker 1>as the CFO and what can the CFO do to help?

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<v Speaker 1>Over n of those CFOs have said they've taken at

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<v Speaker 1>least one action, and that typically has been to really

0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:47.840
<v Speaker 1>review energy footprints UM, how do they use energy efficiently

0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:52.000
<v Speaker 1>throughout their operations UH, and then looking to build those

0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.240
<v Speaker 1>kind of governance processes in place to make sure that

0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:59.960
<v Speaker 1>there's accountability around it going forward. I'm wondering how consider

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.480
<v Speaker 1>distant the view out of CFOs really was. I mean,

0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.840
<v Speaker 1>in other words, uh, was the disparity between CFOs and

0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.400
<v Speaker 1>different industries bigger than it has been in the past,

0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.920
<v Speaker 1>or was there more convergence. One thing that we noted

0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.880
<v Speaker 1>UM was was in terms of this coming year, over

0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.679
<v Speaker 1>two thirds of the CFOs expect m and a consolidation

0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:24.640
<v Speaker 1>in certain industries and technology and manufacturing led that. So

0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:28.800
<v Speaker 1>that should make the bankers happy. So, Sandy, I know

0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.440
<v Speaker 1>you're your surveys global. What are you hearing from some

0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.880
<v Speaker 1>other parts of the world as CFOs think about you know,

0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.439
<v Speaker 1>some of these global CFOs think about their global business. Yes,

0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.920
<v Speaker 1>So this survey was was primarily of North American CFOs,

0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.120
<v Speaker 1>but we did ask their views of the European and

0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.560
<v Speaker 1>Chinese economies. UM your Their view of the of the

0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:51.640
<v Speaker 1>European economy is predismal. Only seven percent felt like the

0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.199
<v Speaker 1>European economy was good at this point and only five

0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.720
<v Speaker 1>percent expected to improve in a year. UM. With respect

0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.920
<v Speaker 1>to China, a teen percent view it is good, but

0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.880
<v Speaker 1>only eleven expect an improvement in a year. And that's

0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:09.160
<v Speaker 1>pretty interesting because when we ask about where investment focus

0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.360
<v Speaker 1>is going to increase. North America really is kind of

0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.640
<v Speaker 1>the dominant the rough. It still has a s approval

0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.080
<v Speaker 1>writing in terms of being good at this point. But

0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.600
<v Speaker 1>one thing that was quite interesting, Uh, these companies thirty

0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 1>seven percent of them said that they were beginning to

0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:29.520
<v Speaker 1>look at increased investment focused in Asia but outside of China. Interesting.

0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.360
<v Speaker 1>Sandy Cockroll, thank you so much for being with us.

0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Sidney Cockroll is global CFO program leader at de Lloyd

0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.840
<v Speaker 1>in New York. Talking about their latest Q four CFO

0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:42.000
<v Speaker 1>Signals report on what all of those c suite executives

0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.320
<v Speaker 1>are thinking in a year had really interesting, how barish

0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.160
<v Speaker 1>they sound. It's interesting even as you think about Europe,

0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.840
<v Speaker 1>for example, we've seen the economic data coming out there

0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:53.480
<v Speaker 1>suggesting that, you know, perhaps it's stabilizing there and maybe

0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.400
<v Speaker 1>about to turn um. But you know, I guess the

0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.040
<v Speaker 1>folks in the C suite that are responsible reporting capital

0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.160
<v Speaker 1>or work, maybe they don't see it quite so much. Yea.

0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.800
<v Speaker 1>And we talked about how much more some of these

0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.600
<v Speaker 1>companies had to pay in wages. Taco bell Is evidently

0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:10.720
<v Speaker 1>offering a hundred thousand dollar salaries for restaurant managers. That

0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.040
<v Speaker 1>that really caught my eyes and just how much the

0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:15.400
<v Speaker 1>fast food industry in the US is changing in the

0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:32.920
<v Speaker 1>face of low unemployment rates. The hot take on Carlos

0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.600
<v Speaker 1>Gone and his press conference yesterday, Hell, hath no fury

0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.400
<v Speaker 1>like a CEO scorned. The pennment of those lots of

0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:42.600
<v Speaker 1>that particular line is Jonas Sarah, who's a calumnist for

0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.800
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Opinion, and he joins us at this time as

0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:50.440
<v Speaker 1>we normally do, get some insight from our Bloomberg Opinion colleagues. Joe, Uh,

0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:55.320
<v Speaker 1>you were watching yesterday, what was your impression of the Yeah, okay, okay,

0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.280
<v Speaker 1>you know I was I was going to call it

0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:02.880
<v Speaker 1>a cluster, but uh, you didn't aster risk on air

0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:08.920
<v Speaker 1>basically carry on, Okay, So um, I thought that he

0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 1>he was Carlos Gone. He was arrogant, he was condescending,

0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:18.320
<v Speaker 1>he was angry, he was um entitled the expressive eyebrows. Yes,

0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.080
<v Speaker 1>and hands too, I might have hands. And then you know,

0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.080
<v Speaker 1>then we got the Q and A and it's basically

0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.480
<v Speaker 1>the person who yelled aloud has got to ask the question.

0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.280
<v Speaker 1>It was kind of crazy, but you know, it was

0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:36.040
<v Speaker 1>a man who clearly viewed his job as getting revenge

0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.440
<v Speaker 1>on the prosecutors who had locked them up all that time,

0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.760
<v Speaker 1>and and a Nissan a company. He feels completely betrayed

0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.960
<v Speaker 1>by um. Whether that's justified or not. I mean, on

0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:50.240
<v Speaker 1>some level it is justified. On on some other level, uh,

0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, not very many people will get to escape

0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.640
<v Speaker 1>to another country, UM and avoid prosecution. One of the

0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:58.960
<v Speaker 1>things that I'm learning through this whole process is I'm

0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.640
<v Speaker 1>getting learning about the Japanese indicial system. And I was

0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.320
<v Speaker 1>unaware that they that the I guess the defendant has

0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:08.040
<v Speaker 1>seems like fewer rights than you have here in the US,

0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:12.200
<v Speaker 1>and that if you do get go to travelers conviction

0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.560
<v Speaker 1>level something crazy like that. So does he have some

0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:17.800
<v Speaker 1>legs to stand on here? His argument about it was

0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:21.280
<v Speaker 1>an unfair conspiracy. Ah, he Well, that's two different issues.

0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.040
<v Speaker 1>One one is how how do the Japanese treat people

0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:25.840
<v Speaker 1>that they put in prison? The answer is they call

0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.600
<v Speaker 1>it hostage They don't call it hostage justice for no reason.

0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.080
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the idea is that they're going to extract

0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:32.880
<v Speaker 1>the confession out of you one way or the other.

0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.159
<v Speaker 1>They make your life completely miserable. They put you in

0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.040
<v Speaker 1>solitary confinement, lights around all the time, eight hours of

0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.520
<v Speaker 1>interrogation a day, they can re arrest you and re

0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:42.679
<v Speaker 1>arrest you. And that's what happened to him. So on

0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:48.159
<v Speaker 1>that count absolutely, On the conspiracy count, we don't really no.

0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean, his view is that Nissan wanted to get

0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:53.639
<v Speaker 1>rid of them, and the way they did it was

0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 1>they went to the prosecutors and conspired with them to

0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.760
<v Speaker 1>to gin up a bunch of phony allegations. That's what

0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:03.919
<v Speaker 1>he says. Is that true? We don't no. But I

0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:05.439
<v Speaker 1>think one of the things that's gonna happen is we're

0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.119
<v Speaker 1>gonna find out because he's gonna put his facts out there,

0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:09.920
<v Speaker 1>Nissan is gonna put and it's gonna be a war

0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.840
<v Speaker 1>of words for the next six months to a year.

0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.640
<v Speaker 1>Why did Nissan do it this way? I mean, honestly,

0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:17.840
<v Speaker 1>couldn't they have just paid him to go away? That's

0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.239
<v Speaker 1>what I don't understand. It's that that's the nuttiest thing

0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.480
<v Speaker 1>of all. It's like there are a lot of See,

0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.959
<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of CEOs and chairman their companies

0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:28.600
<v Speaker 1>want to get rid of They get rid of them.

0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.000
<v Speaker 1>And by the way, if they think they have misappropriated money,

0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.520
<v Speaker 1>they clawback money or they sue them or whatever. They

0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:37.920
<v Speaker 1>don't throw them in jail for a hundred and thirty

0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:41.120
<v Speaker 1>days in salt theiry confinements. So what do you think

0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:43.280
<v Speaker 1>his next step are is? Is this gonna be a

0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.080
<v Speaker 1>just to hit every TV network, give all kinds of

0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.720
<v Speaker 1>interviews to get his story out there? Is that? How

0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.520
<v Speaker 1>do you think this might play out? Yes? I do,

0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.400
<v Speaker 1>And I also think he's gonna I also think he's

0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.680
<v Speaker 1>going to show some people some somewhere where he can

0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.520
<v Speaker 1>get some authority. He's gonna really lay out his case.

0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.440
<v Speaker 1>He's gonna show that the paperwork, and he's gonna he's

0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:07.640
<v Speaker 1>gonna dare Nissan to come up with counter facts. Uh

0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.879
<v Speaker 1>and and it's going to be this war of paper

0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.280
<v Speaker 1>It's gonna be a war of paperwork. You know, there's

0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.440
<v Speaker 1>a larger question here if I find fascinating the role

0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:21.439
<v Speaker 1>of the CEO as an entertainer, as a presenter and

0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:24.639
<v Speaker 1>as sort of an actor showman, because we've seen that

0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:28.480
<v Speaker 1>with you know, with a host of CEO is something

0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:34.840
<v Speaker 1>must thank you the late Steve Steve jobs. Um. You know, honestly,

0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:38.520
<v Speaker 1>even Alibaba's founder Jack Ma has come out in different

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.760
<v Speaker 1>kinds of outfits and tried to entertain. How important is

0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.720
<v Speaker 1>that the sort of charisma of one of these sort

0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.440
<v Speaker 1>of larger than life personalities leading companies. I think in

0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.679
<v Speaker 1>a lot of companies it's really important. And look at

0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.320
<v Speaker 1>Carlos Gone, he held he was like Marshall Peito. He