1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Today is the day. That 2 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: is the quote we have heard over and over and 3 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: over from Abbey and Liberty also known as Libby's family. 4 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: The Delphi murders forever ingrained in our memories. But today 5 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: a major turn in the case. Literally in the last hour, 6 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: murder charges have been announced. Take a listen to Superintendent 7 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: Doug Carter of the Indiana State Police. So do I 8 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: have the paring marks? But today is different because I 9 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: do not want to be there to be any confusion 10 00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: or ambiguity with what I will say. Today's hot to 11 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: day to celebrate. But the arrest of Richard him Allen 12 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: of Delphi or two Council murder ensure a major step 13 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: in leading a conclusion of this long term and complex investigation. 14 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: You heard it from the horse's mouth. A long term 15 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: and complex investigation has culminated in the arrest of Richard M. 16 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: Allen aka Rick Allen aka Ricky Allen, the overnight manager 17 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: some people say pharmacy tech at the local CVS. How 18 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: many times did Abbey and Liberty go into that CBS 19 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: while he was there? Reports he even created duplicated the 20 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: photos of Abbey and Libby for their funeral at no cost. 21 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: Hiding under in plain sight is one way to put it. 22 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: But believe me, the police, the sheriff's, the state police 23 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: had to exhaust every lead and that takes time. As 24 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: of right now, the probable cause, the warrant leading to 25 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: the arrest of Allen Ricky Allen is being kept under 26 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: sial and I find it very interesting that law enforcement 27 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: insists this investigation is not over and the tip line 28 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: remains open. I mean to see, Grace, this is crime Stories. 29 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation 30 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: in serious X one eleven with me an all start panel. 31 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: But I want you to hear another thing. This is 32 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: from Superintendent Doug Carter of the Indiana State Police our 33 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: cup fifty four. Listen. First, I'd like to speak directly 34 00:02:54,320 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: to Hannah, Mike put Kelsey, your extended families, along with 35 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: the entire Delphi community that certainly has grown and now 36 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: includes our nation and even many countries around the world. 37 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: I am proud to report to you today actually last Friday, 38 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: what's the day, and an arrest has been made straight 39 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: out to Cheryl McCullum, joining US forensics expert who has 40 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: investigated along with US the Delphi murders and is joining 41 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: us from Delphi. She is the founder of the Cold 42 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: Case Research Institute Cold Case Crimes dot org. Cheryl, tell 43 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: me everything that happened from the moment you sat down 44 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: to this moment right now. The moment you sat down 45 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: in the pressor, Nanthia was somble, it was hacked, It 46 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: was standing room only. There were folks there just from 47 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: all over the United States. And the minute that Superintendent 48 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: Doug Carter took the podium, I think that there was 49 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: just a unified feeling of we understand as them arrest, 50 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: which is a major major change in this case. But 51 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: we all know that today really the investigation in some 52 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: way begins, so it doesn't end in a rest. Today. Honey, 53 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: they are hot and they are fixing to go to work. 54 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: You know, I'm okay. This says it best. I'll let 55 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: Doug Carter with the Indiana State Police say it himself 56 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: instead of me. Take us in our cup fifty five. 57 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: We are going to continue a very methodical and committed 58 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: approach to ensure that if any other person had any 59 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: involvement in these murders in any way, that person or 60 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: persons will be held accountable since the murders of Abby 61 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:04,799 Speaker 1: and two thousand and eighty six days ago. The Daily 62 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: Investigator team is tirelessly straight out to jo Scott Morgan, 63 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My 64 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon, and star of a hit series Body 65 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: Bags with Joe Scott. Joe Scott, I also heard him 66 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: state that so many and I quote divisions of the 67 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: crime lab were involved. That tells me blood, blood spatter, 68 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: DNA touch, DNA, hair fiber, staging the puzzle evidence from 69 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: the bodies. But did you also hear that he said 70 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: the investigation is not over yet. If there's any person 71 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:57,119 Speaker 1: or persons out there, the tip line is still open. 72 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: What do you make of that? Joe Scott? Our minds 73 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: are one this morning, and that was my biggest takeaway today, Nancy. 74 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: When I heard him say that from the podium, For me, 75 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: I begin to think, you know about this other guy 76 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: that they've had incarcerated for some time. I'm thinking about 77 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: this fellow's family. Now what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking 78 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: that last thing you said, his family. Cheryl McCollum, you hear, 79 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, You're there all the scene agree, disagree, 80 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: because it's come to my attention that the police execute 81 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: search warrant on Richard Allen's home. Then they're back digging 82 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: around a fire pit where Alan had been burning something 83 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: in the backyard. Let me tell you it's never good 84 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: when you look out your window and the cops are 85 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: digging up your yard or going through your trash. Well, 86 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: I'm just going to jump right in it. As a wife. 87 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: He is never going to be able to convince me 88 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: he didn't recognize that gate, that walt both clothes and 89 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: that boy oh oh, I got southern. Cheryl McCollum. Jonathan 90 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: Lee Riches investigates and he has obtained whether it's on Facebook, 91 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: whether it's off YouTube, and posted this guy, purportedly, this 92 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: guy Richard Alan, walking in a pair of jeans, okay, 93 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: strikingly similar to the amount on the bridge jeans. All Right, Anyway, 94 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: I know it's going to be impossible to say it's 95 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: the same kindie jeans, but I want you to look 96 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: not at his jeans, but at his build and his gait. 97 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: Gai t kind of an ambling he's doing to Cheryl McCollum. 98 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure you also have seen that video. Yes, no, 99 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: I have not, But Nancy, let me tell you the 100 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: biggest takeaway from me pretty day when you love instead 101 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: of that press conference and over and over and over, 102 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: they put the tip line back up. They tell you 103 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: it's not over. They tell you if any other person 104 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: has had anything at all to do with it. We 105 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: now have a face, we now have a name. So 106 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: I believe they're gonna keep everything up, like the tip 107 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: line and everything, because they're gonna try to connect additional 108 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: Dot Time stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, can we talk 109 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: about the face just for a moment, and I go 110 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 1: to you on this one, to Dr Bethany Marshall. Everybody 111 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: again jump in. We've only got an hour to cover up, 112 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 1: which is the biggest development and the Delphi murders that 113 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: we've had so far. Dr Bethany Marshall joining me. He's 114 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: psychoanist in Beverly Hills and Dr Bethany mark dot com. 115 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: Speaking of a picture, there is a picture floating around 116 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: on the internet and it is I think taken Alan 117 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: and his wife at Jac's Bar and grill and twenty 118 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: twenty one. Now, I mean right behind him is a 119 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: composite sketch to my recollections the second composite sketch, and 120 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: I mean it's almost straight out of a movie, seeing 121 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: where the person turns and looks at him, and then 122 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: right behind him it's the composite sketch that looks like him. 123 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: But I'm talking about what Cheryl just said about the family. 124 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: Did they not suspect anything? Well, Nancy, let me go 125 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: back a second. Abby and Libby the data they were 126 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: hiking the day they went missing. They were on Snapchat 127 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: and they took a picture of this man. Your viewers 128 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: and listeners know this by now, so there was a 129 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: picture from the very beginning. This Alan is taking a 130 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: picture of himself to selfie with his wife with a 131 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: composite sketch behind them. This reminds me of so many 132 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: criminals who commit domestic homicide. Maybe they kill a wife 133 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: or a partner, and then they join the search, or 134 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: they pass out flyers, or they get involved in the 135 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: effort to find that person, when in fact they are 136 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: the perpetrators. So what they're doing is they're injecting themselves 137 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: back into the crime and reliving it again and again. 138 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: I also think he's triumphant. Quite a bit of time 139 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: has passed he's not been named as a suspect at 140 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 1: the time he takes this picture, and this guy thinks 141 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: he's going to walk scott free. But you know, Nancy, 142 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: he is not. Because you talked about connecting the dots. 143 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: If this guy is the perp, if he killed Abby 144 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 1: and Libby and he has an online pet presence as 145 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 1: a pedophile, he is going to have a little pentacles 146 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: spreading outward all over the Internet to other people where 147 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: he will have passed photos, memorability reminiscing about the crime. So, 148 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: of course the tip line, you know, I think, of 149 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: course it should stay active because I think more and 150 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: more people are going to be implicated in this crime. 151 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: Take listen our cut sixty. This is Nicholas McClellan, the 152 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: county prosecutor. This investigation is still very ongoing. We're keeping 153 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: the tip line open, the tip email open. We encourage 154 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: everybody to continue to call in tips, not only about 155 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: Richard Allen, but about any other person that you may have. 156 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: For that reason and for the nature of this case, 157 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: the probable cause and the charging information has been sealed 158 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: by the court. I've been very clear to everybody that 159 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 1: per the court order, we cannot talk about the evidence. 160 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: It's in the probable cause or the evidence. It's in 161 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: the charging information that will become evident to you at 162 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: some point and it will be released, but right now 163 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: is not that day too, just got more than what 164 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: were you saying? Yeah, one of the thinking about it 165 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: talking about the burn pit and going back to what 166 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: Bethany had said, this is one of the things I 167 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: think that they're going to zero in on Nancy if 168 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: there are any trophies that have been taken from this, 169 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: particularly exactly we know two items were taken from the scene, 170 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: right And also going back to remembrances, there have been 171 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: certain terms that have been thrown out over the months 172 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: the years, and that is posing. And if there is 173 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: posing going on in a case like this boy be specific. 174 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: For people that don't know what staging means, that means 175 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: that staging are posing. Posing is a little bit different 176 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: because posing goes to a fantasy level. Doctor Bethany can 177 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: address that. But if there is posing going on, that 178 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: means that there might be a photographic record of it. 179 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: Because this is something that these guys are all the 180 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 1: serial cases I've worked that get into this, they love 181 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: to reminisce about these things, and they would generally have 182 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: a hiding spot that they'll keep these things. BTK was 183 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: famous for this, and so I'm not saying this guy's 184 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: a serial perpetrator at this point, but these are very 185 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: bold things that have begun to kind of seep out 186 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: that it would give you an indication of potential practice here, 187 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: you know, Nancy, this is Wendy. One thing about the 188 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: emboldenness that we seem to have seen here is remember 189 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: we talked about who would have recognized the gates. We said, 190 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: sure family members would have This is a small town. 191 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: I would have thought anybody would have recognized the gate, 192 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: the voice, you know, if he works in this town, 193 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: if he has friends in this town, he has neighbors, 194 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: people know each other. This was a big case. Why 195 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 1: wouldn't anyone else have recognized him on that video? And 196 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: that's one of the other reasons he may have become 197 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 1: emboldened over time that maybe he figured, well, maybe they 198 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: did recognize me, but have chosen to protect me or 199 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: stay silent. And why didn't anybody recognize the clothing? You know, 200 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: in these small towns, it's not like there's a huge 201 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: shopping mall. Probably everybody buys their clothing from similar places. 202 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: They don't buy a lot of new clothing. They recognize 203 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: each other's clothing at good morning, end and again. And 204 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: speaking of the clothing, guys, you were just hearing Wendy Patrick, 205 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: California prosecutor and author of Red Flag. She's the host 206 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: of Today with Doctor Wendy KCBQ San Diego, as well 207 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: as doctor Bethny Marshall, Alexa's Terestia Crimeline dot Com investigative reporter. 208 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: I'm coming right to you. But speaking of the clothing, 209 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: this was on Richard Allen's wife's Facebook post, and it 210 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: shows her kind of sneaking up on him. You know 211 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: when you try to surprise somebody and you're videoing them. 212 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: He's sitting in the car reading something. I think he's 213 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: reading a tablet. Isn't he Jackie like an iPad? Maybe 214 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: she sneaks up on him. He jumps and closes the tablet. 215 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: I didn't get a look at what he was reading, 216 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: but he's wearing a blue jacket identical from what we 217 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: can tell, to the one the MB man on the 218 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: bridge was wearing. Cheryl McCollum, yep. Absolutely, But Nancy, I 219 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: gotta jump back into the fire pit of me, because 220 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: I think this is crucial. It's been five and a 221 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: half years since this murder murders, and the fact that 222 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: he would be burning something now tells me he knew 223 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: they were closed and he knew the police were coming. Well, Cheryl, 224 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: what about the timeline. It's been projected that the police 225 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: came into the search, then he went out into the 226 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: fire pit, and then police were digging around the fire pit. 227 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the correct order, but that 228 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: certainly changes things, does it not? It does, but it 229 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: also means he kept things pertinent to what Joe Scott 230 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: was talking about, these souvenirs. Potentially, it also means he 231 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: knew they were coming back. He knew he had to 232 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: get rid of that stuff. So whatever it was, he 233 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: kept it five and a half years. But again, the 234 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: most important thing to me, he knew they were coming back. 235 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: That is not an innocent man action. For those of 236 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: you just joining us, a major break and the Delphi 237 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: and murders of Libby and Abbey joining me crime online 238 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: dot Com Alexis terres Chuck, Alexis recap Lyddy and Abbie 239 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: thirteen and fourteen years old in twenty seventeen February thirteen, 240 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: day before Valentine's sick. They don't have school. They're in 241 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: the afternoon. Their sister drops them off just to hang 242 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: out on the bridge. Teenage girls. They're not doing anything. 243 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: They're taking silly snapchat videos of each other. Here I 244 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: am on the bridge, exactly what teenagers do. Then the 245 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: family can't find them. They're supposed to be picked up 246 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: at the bridge around four o'clocks. They want still day 247 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: like this is the dead of winter. No one can 248 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: find them. They keep calling the girls, their phone ring 249 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: and ring and ring, and then it goes straight to voicemail. 250 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: They have no word from them. The family is searching. 251 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: There's this finally called the sheriff at night. The sheriff thinks, well, 252 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: maybe they're going to show up. The next day. Their 253 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: bodies are found, and along with their bodies are a 254 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: cell phone. And this cell phone has been the most 255 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: valuable piece of evidence in this entire investigation. On this 256 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: cell phone. On Liddy's cellphone, she took a video of 257 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: a man approaching them. It is a forty three second video. 258 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: We have only seen about three seconds of this video. 259 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: There's a lot more evidence that the police have that 260 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 1: they have never shown us. And in this video, the 261 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: man says, go down the hill, and you can see 262 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: that he's leaning to his left, he's coming towards them, 263 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: and they obviously thought that something was very suspect. You 264 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: don't record just random people walking towards you on the 265 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: street normally, but this was so scary to them that 266 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: they made sure they captured it on videos. You know, 267 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: Cheryl mccollumb, you've got a theory on that that he 268 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: had actually passed him and was coming back. Explained, Yes, 269 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: my theory is they came from let's just say, the 270 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: north end of the bridge. I believe he met them 271 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: coming from the south side. I think he passed them, 272 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: and I think if you look closely at the photograph 273 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: that everybody has come to know as the bridge guy, 274 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: it looks to me like he's coming back into the 275 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: center of the bridge, which would be indicative of him 276 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: turning around. I think they had some type of interaction, 277 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: whether he said something or did something. It alerted everything 278 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: in Liberty German that this is not right. And Nancy, 279 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: for every woman and young person listening to your show 280 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: right now, every girl has had somebody makes them feel weird. 281 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: Some guy brushed up against them, said something inappropriate, maybe 282 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: even tucked them in some way, but they didn't video him. 283 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: For Liberty German from a distance to know that she 284 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: needed to get this person on videotape tells me there 285 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 1: was some overt action from him, and I think when 286 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: he turned around and met them, that when he had 287 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: control to push them in the direction that he wanted 288 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: them to go down the hill up a half a 289 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: mile to where he already had a place scaped out. 290 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: That's what I believe. I'm hold on Cheryl McCollum. I 291 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: just want to show everybody what she's talking about. I'm 292 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: holding up and everybody on the panel is exactly what 293 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: I'm holding up. Man on the bridge, bridge guy, aka 294 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: is it Richard Alan? When Charyl's saying, he's turning around, 295 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: That's why she's saying it. Do you see how he's 296 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 1: tilted off to the left like he's going one way, 297 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: he turns around that he's in the middle of the turn, 298 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: coming back toward the girls. And then later on in 299 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: that same I wish I could show it to you better. 300 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: Here here we go. Then he straightens up right beside it. 301 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: You see what Charyl is talking about which when he 302 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: passed him the first time show. I think what you're 303 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: saying is that something he said or did gave them 304 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: the creeps. They get out their phone when he turns 305 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: around and starts coming back toward them. It makes perfect 306 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: sense where you say, Joe Scott. Yeah. Interestingly enough, Mac 307 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: and I had a discussion. I guess it's probably two 308 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 1: weeks ago now, Mac, where you know, I you know, 309 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: I've always held it. Whoever did this had knowledge of 310 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: the school schedule, Okay, they would have like an intimate 311 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,160 Speaker 1: knowledge of when the kids were going to be out, 312 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: that sort of thing for timing. And to max point 313 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: about a pre prepared area down there, I think that 314 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 1: that's significant. When you look at that bridge and you 315 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: see the height of this thing, it's almost like what 316 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: they would refer to in the military as at choke point. 317 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: That means you can funnel people into an area and 318 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: there's nowhere for them to go at that point in time, 319 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: and indicates familiarity. It also indicates potentially preparation. I think 320 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: to a great degree that you have no doubt actually 321 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: picked out an area, you have dates and times in mind, okay, 322 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: and then you have a specific area, you have a 323 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: choke point where you can kind of corral whoever the 324 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: victim or victims are going to be, and then you 325 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: get them go down the hill at that point. And 326 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: addition to the familiarity issue, you know, Nancy, it strikes 327 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: me that we talk about everybody recognizing the gag. You know, 328 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: these girls probably knew him too, and perhaps it wasn't 329 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,239 Speaker 1: the first time that thought something was odd about him, 330 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: which would explain why that the videotape and audiotape is 331 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: just maybe wasn't a stranger to them either, such a 332 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: small town. I was thinking that as well, this guy 333 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: had a relationship with them, possibly for a long long time. 334 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: He was working in the local CBS processing their pictures. 335 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: When we think of serial killers, predators and victims selection, 336 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: somehow they fit some profile of two victims that he 337 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: was already contemplating. The fact that he posed them after 338 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: their death meant that the relationship with them continued after 339 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: they died, and then keeping the trophies and potentially burning 340 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 1: them in the burn pit. He you know, these predators, 341 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 1: their rape fantasies, their seats and fantasies, their relationships with 342 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: their victims live on and on. They have prolific fantasy lives. Well, 343 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: we're learning a lot, Bethany, and from just simple research 344 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: we've learned, we believe we've learned anyway, that this guy 345 00:21:55,240 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: Rick Allen worked CBS as a pharmacy tech and ports 346 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: an overnight manager. What does that tell me that he's 347 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 1: free during the day, during the day when Liberty Libby 348 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: and Abigail Abbey were there on the Maman Heights Bridge, 349 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: So he would have been off that day. And I 350 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: guarantee you right now they haven't already done it. Anybody 351 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: on the panel jump in. They are getting his working records. 352 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 1: Was he off that day? Was he working at the time? 353 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: His cell phone records? Nanpia's Alexis. I also want to 354 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: tell you in twenty nineteen, they the Delphi Police Department, 355 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: they sent the DNA that they had to not only 356 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: to the FBI, but to all of the ancestry dot Com, 357 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: all the family tree tracking places, because they had enough evidence. 358 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: They had enough DNA that they wanted to see if 359 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: they could track it that way to track him through 360 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,959 Speaker 1: his family as well. So they have been putting the 361 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 1: fuelers out to send this evidence everywhere to see if 362 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: some way connect with somebody. Yeah, you're right, Alexis, and 363 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: that was in two thousand and nine. Team, So that 364 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: tells us that there was DNA taken from the scene. 365 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: How could there not be based on what we learned 366 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: a while back, copious amounts of blood. There are suggestions, 367 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've heard them there on the ground shrel McCollum, 368 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: that the girl's throats were slashed. We don't know that yet, 369 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: but we do know there was a lot of blood, 370 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: which means he had to get some blood on himself. 371 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: I mean, we saw what the killer was wearing, sure, 372 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: and I think there's also it would appear I think 373 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: to most criminologists this was probably sexually generated. So bill 374 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: was probably seminal fluid. There might have been sweat, There 375 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: might have been a fingerprint, there might have been other 376 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: things that they were using. But again, if you get 377 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: the ancestral piece of it, I mean that can take 378 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: a while to connect those dots as well. I mean 379 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 1: you have to go back generations and generations. I'm not 380 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: talking about your grandmother or your grandfather. I'm talking about 381 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: great great, great, great great great, And then it might 382 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: be DNA pops up belonging to a third cousin that 383 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: lives in New York City, and then you got a 384 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: trace and trace and trace until you get back to 385 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: someone that may have been in and Delphi. I believe 386 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: everybody on this panel said at the get go that 387 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: we did not think this was a transient, although he 388 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: did explore it. Just who would know to go to 389 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: Momon Heights, trustle Bridge, and you'd have to know where 390 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: you were going to get to that. I'm very interested 391 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: in that forty three second sound and video audio and 392 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: video on the girl's cell phone. We've only heard a 393 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: few brief seconds of it down the hill, and that 394 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 1: was looped down the hill, down the hill. There are 395 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: reports the rest has not been played just got Morgan 396 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: because it is too disturbing. Yeah, and I would I 397 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: don't know that I want to hear it. It could 398 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: be one of the most horrific things that we've covered. 399 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: And that's just from Look, we've been at this for 400 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: a long time now relative to this case, and there's 401 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: been a lot of stuff obviously that's floated by our way, 402 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 1: you know, Cromalan and with you, Nancy, and people want 403 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: to tell us things. And for me, when I have 404 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: heard this, and I've heard other people say this. What's 405 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: on the rest of the tape. I think that at 406 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: the end of the day, when we finally do know, 407 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: it's going to be something we probably wish that we 408 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 1: could unhear. At that point time. Keep this in your 409 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: mind while you're talking the facial beard. Remember that long goatee. 410 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,959 Speaker 1: He's sports sometimes he's sporting in his mud shot for one. 411 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: Remember the bridge guy, the man on the bridge, how 412 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: he has his chin check down like that so you 413 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: can't see his chin. It's all tucked under. See that, Jackie. Okay, 414 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: that's just food for thought. Jump in Wendy. Yeah, you know, 415 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: we may not want to hear the tape, but the 416 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: reason we have to is this teaches us what in 417 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: the world to look for. You know, you talk about 418 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: red flags, the turtle of my last book, the things 419 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 1: that people say, the things they think, the types of 420 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: pickup lines they think are going to entice different age groups. 421 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: I mean, we may think these things are just crazy 422 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,719 Speaker 1: and it hard to listen to. But knowledge is power. 423 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: So that would be one reason I would want to 424 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: hear the end of the tape, just to figure out 425 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: how in the world did a man like this gain 426 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: compliance in that scenario. I'll tell I've got another question. 427 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: How did he manage to put one hundred and forty 428 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: thousand dollars cash down on a house? I want to 429 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: know that too. I mean, he's an overnight manager. And 430 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: the CVS, which interesting, Cheryl McCollum. The CVS is kind 431 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: of like, as you described it once at the center 432 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: of the wagon wheel and everything going out. You probably 433 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: got a CVS, a Burger King and McDonald's, a Walmart. 434 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: I'm judging based on my hometown what's there and CBS 435 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: is right in the middle of it, right right in 436 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: the middle. So how did he get one hundred and 437 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: forty grand to put down on a house in cash? 438 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: And that's the question. I mean, I think there's going 439 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: to be so many things that come from you know 440 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: what they're investigating now, and some of the dots they're 441 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: going to connect, I think are gonna blow people's mind. 442 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 1: But Nancy, I want to piggyback on something Wendy Patrick 443 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: was just saying. I think early in my career, when 444 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: I was in my twenties, I believe that when somebody 445 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: got to the point they were going to murder somebody 446 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: it was in a frenzy, like they were just out 447 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: of control. Well then I learned, you know, through experience, 448 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: that's not the case. If you listen to that voice, 449 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: he's calm, he's not angry, he's not out of his mind, 450 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: he's not in some type of murdering, you know, chaotic state. 451 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: He simply says, guys down the hill. So I think, 452 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: to Wendy's point, we can all learn things from hearing 453 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: the totality of what happened there. And it's gonna be horrific, 454 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: there's no question about that. Well, I gotta say something. 455 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 1: I'm like this terrestre joining me crme online dot com 456 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: investigate a reporter. When I first heard the name Richard 457 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: Alan connected with CBS, I got in touch with CBS 458 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: there in Delphi, and I swear alexis the woman that 459 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: picked up the line when I told her I was. 460 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: When I asked if Richard Allen worked there, I thought 461 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: she's going to break down and start crying. There's this 462 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: long pause and her voice cracked and she said, I 463 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: can't comment, I can't give a comment. Well after that, 464 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: she didn't need to. But this is a shot I'm 465 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: sure to people that he worked with, that were side 466 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: by side with him every day, and if anybody did 467 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: anything to cover this up, they're looking at jail time, 468 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: alexis Herz Chuck. Well, that's the thing. That's why the 469 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: police have said this investigation is not over. And also 470 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: people could have seen him, they could have helped. How 471 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,239 Speaker 1: did they How did he dispose of its closed? How 472 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: do you come home from a murder scene that the 473 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: state superintendent has said is the worst one that he 474 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: has ever seen in his decades of his career, and 475 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: police officers have seen a lot, and he says this 476 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: one is by far the worst. So he has a daughter, 477 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: he has a white How are people in town that 478 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: the people sitting next to him at that restaurant? Where's 479 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: the picture right? Because nobody's seen the pictures right behind him? 480 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace Cheryl McCollum. You want to 481 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: tell him about the photo of Alan's daughter on the 482 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: same trestle bridge. It looked like her senior high school 483 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: picture was taken on the trestle bridge where Libby and 484 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: Abbey were taken. It looks just like a senior picture 485 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: and she's literally sitting on the bridge and the first 486 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: thing that struck me is how much she favors liberty 487 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: dermot she does. They could look like family members. And 488 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: you know, again the bridge, we can prove was not 489 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: unfamiliar to him. There's a connection to that bridge. We 490 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: have been living there for many, many years. At least 491 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: sixteen years he's been married. I believe I found twenty 492 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: five years. And I don't know if any of you 493 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: guys have looked up the wife's post. She interestingly took 494 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: down almost all the two thousand and seventeen Facebook posts. 495 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: There's two sixteen, eighteen, nineteen, and so on, but the 496 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: two thousand and seventeens have been taken down. Yeah, she's 497 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: getting rid of that timeline. And then to let me 498 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: go back to the guy on the bridge. I've been 499 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: to that bridge. It is when they say seventy two 500 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: feet high, it feels a lot higher year on it. 501 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: And there's some of the you know, boards are missing it. 502 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: It's kind of I don't know, it just doesn't seem 503 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: stable when you're trying to cross it. And when you 504 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: look at him, his hands are in his pocket. There's 505 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: no way you would traverse that bridge without your hands. 506 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: Out Number one for balloty and number two that try 507 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: to kick yourself if you stumbled or tripped on one 508 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: of these boards that's uneven or missing, so that there 509 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: was nowhere for them to run. They couldn't go either 510 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: way because they were nearly one hundred feet up in 511 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: the air. Was that you Bethany jump in? Yeah, Well, 512 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: so I was going to say. You know, Charyl McCollum 513 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: talked about the calm demeanor. Well, of course he was calm. 514 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: He was in charge. He chose this trestle bit bridge, 515 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: which was quite precarious, probably familiar to everybody in the town. 516 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: But still he had the upper hand, the advantage. And 517 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: I want to say about these serial rapist murders, predators, 518 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: whatever we find out, whatever we assess him to be 519 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: at the end of this investigation, they always hide them 520 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,239 Speaker 1: plain sight. There's research into these kinds of perpetrators, like 521 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: the BTK killer. Usually they're middle aged white men. They 522 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: often have they drive a family van, they usually have 523 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: two children. They're often Caucasian, and they wear what we 524 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: call the mask of sanity, which is they know how 525 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: to live in normal society and act normal, all the 526 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: while knowing that they are not normal at all, and 527 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: he probably worked at the CBS so he could be 528 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: at the center of the hubs, so he could engage 529 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: in victims selection. It was probably part of a sexual, 530 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: sadistic masturbatory ritual that he incorporated into his work life, 531 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: that he could he couldtrol for victims all the while 532 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: that he was working. I'm sure everything in his life 533 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: was organized around his paraphilias, his sexual devanc patterns. Go ahead, 534 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: Jess Scott. Yeah, one other thing I wanted to bring 535 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: out something you mentioned a few moments ago about drug stores. 536 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: CBS is essentially, unless there's a small mom and pop, 537 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: CBS is essentially the only drug store there. You know, 538 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: the closest Walmart supercenter, which is where a lot of 539 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,719 Speaker 1: people use for the farms he now is almost fourteen 540 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: point five miles away. So going to this idea of 541 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: this being kind of a hub area, you're going to know, 542 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: you know, people just for the sake of convenience are 543 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: going to arrive at this location. And back to what 544 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: Mac was saying about him with his hands in his 545 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: pockets on this bridge, I think in my mind at 546 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: least that the reason he was so smooth and confident 547 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: up there is not only because he was actually in control. 548 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: There's still this disarming thing. It's almost like they're familiar 549 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: with him. You know that he can be that casual 550 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: walking toward them on this bridge. I wouldn't want to 551 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: be up on top of the thing because it's monstrous, 552 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,239 Speaker 1: it's huge. I'd be terrified I'd fall off. But he 553 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: was smooth. He was smooth as he's kind of ambulating 554 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: toward them, and he's in control in that sense too. 555 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: Amble that's a really good word because that's how I 556 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: described how he's walking in that video the wife posted 557 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: of him setting off frrecrackers, he turns around and kind 558 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: of ambols, you know, can I ask something? Yes? Jump in. 559 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: So you talk about being on the same page, Joe Scott, 560 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: I was thinking the same thing with a little bit 561 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: of a twist. So if there's only one game in 562 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,280 Speaker 1: town for drug stores like the DBS, that's a position 563 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: of power. We may not think the same thing if 564 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: we come from large jurisdictions, but in the place where 565 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: everyone has to go there, that's a great equal either. 566 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 1: It's like looking at the DMV, everybody has to come in. 567 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: So in terms of this personality profile, he may have 568 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 1: been emboldened and confident simply by the fact that he 569 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: was really in charge of something that everybody in the 570 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: town needed. And that may also explain his cavalier, casual, 571 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: but confident attitude that you hear on that tape. I 572 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: just find it really interesting that the cops were literally 573 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: digging near a fire pit in his backyard for what 574 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: We also know that he has been moved from one facility, 575 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: from the Carroll County Jail to the White County Jail. 576 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 1: We also know that there has already been a preliminary hearing. 577 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut sixty one. The local prosecutor, 578 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: mister Allen has had his initial hearing. Is in it 579 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: a preliminary plea of not guilty. Matter has been set 580 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: for a pre trial in January thirteenth at nine am, 581 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, at a trial date of March twentieth, 582 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,760 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three at nine am. He has presumed innocent. 583 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: We will have an opportunity and day in court when 584 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,399 Speaker 1: we could present the evidence that we had against him, 585 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,919 Speaker 1: But until that day, he's presumed innocent. So much they're 586 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:39,879 Speaker 1: keeping sealed the details of why he was arrested being 587 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 1: kept secret. And I understand because they are saying this 588 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: is an ongoing investigation. Let's look back at the man 589 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 1: on the bridge, the bridge guy. If this were your husband, 590 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: would you not know he had that kind of hat? 591 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 1: Is that a newsboy's hat? Is that what you would 592 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: call that? And he is wearing a looks like a 593 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:09,839 Speaker 1: blue sweat hoodie underneath the blue jacket, very similar to 594 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 1: the jacket Alan is wearing in that car where his 595 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:18,280 Speaker 1: wife surprised him. How would you not know your husband 596 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: had an outfit like that? Hold that thought? But to 597 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: you Alexa's rst Chuck. He has already had an initial 598 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: hearing and entered a plea of not guilty. He did. 599 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: He appeared in court on Friday the twenty eighth, and 600 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: he has said he is not guilty. But one thing 601 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about. We've been talking about the 602 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: evidence that he may have been burning. So there with 603 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: us an arrest, a search warrant issued for someone else, 604 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: the man Ron Logan's property where the girls were found. 605 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: This was about it a year ago. He died. He 606 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: was on He was considered a suspect for a little while. 607 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: But in that arrest wurrant they there was no mention 608 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: of what they were looking for. What they did say 609 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: was that the rest of the girl's clothing was recovered, 610 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: which implied that it was a piece of clothing that 611 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: the person the murderer took of the girls and that's 612 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 1: what they were looking for. So a piece of clothing 613 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: could burn much easier than if they took a body 614 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: part or anything like that. But it seems to imprivate 615 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: that is what they have taken, or he has taken. 616 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: Whinney Pastrick, what do you make of the fact that 617 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: he's already been moved to a second facility for his 618 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: own safety. Yeah, I'm not surprised given the notoriety of 619 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,359 Speaker 1: this case. I mean, you've covered it on your show, 620 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: other outlets have been following it for years. You know, 621 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 1: Partially this is a small town and there's a concern 622 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: that when the state House is an individual, they have 623 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,240 Speaker 1: a duty to make sure they keep that person safe. 624 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: So I'm really not surprised. You know, I know that 625 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: people have been moved were far less than this, And 626 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: especially concerning is the fact that investigation is ongoing, So 627 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: I think they're taking every opportunity they can to keep 628 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: everybody safe. Just got Morgan's my understanding, two items were 629 00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: taken from the scene, one apparently close thing. What do 630 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,760 Speaker 1: you make of it? What do you know about reports 631 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: that their clothing was misput like for instance, Abbey's clothing 632 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,399 Speaker 1: some of it was put on Libby and vice versa. Yeah, 633 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: it's called redressing, and this happens. I've actually worked a 634 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: serial case involving redressing where the perpetrator would undress and 635 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: redress the bodies post mortem. It falls into a category 636 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: of necrophilic behavior, that is after death where there is 637 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: a strong sexual attraction to the dead, and it goes 638 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: to posing Nancy specifically, it's almost like they're in a 639 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: state of a doll like inanimate state that the individual 640 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: can do anything that they wish to do with them, 641 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: and they can interchange things with them. And so that 642 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: again goes back to this idea of trophies. When we 643 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: process these scenes, were very careful. If we have something 644 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,879 Speaker 1: that indicates to us that it is kind of an 645 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 1: over the top, maybe sexually fueled event. You're looking for 646 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: items that they can go back and fantasize about, and 647 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 1: you know from their profilers develop a profile and I 648 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: can bet you dollars to donuts. They have got a 649 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: rather rather rich profile on this. Fellow doctor Bethany Marshall 650 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 1: the difference between staging and posing, explain well, I mean 651 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: to me, staging is for the audience, the imagined or 652 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: real audience, or whoever's going to come across the scene, 653 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: to show that you're in charge. Posing, as Jo Scott 654 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: Morgan said, more has the doll like quality. I have 655 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,839 Speaker 1: control over you. You now belong to me. I can 656 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: stay in at of sexual excitement for as long as 657 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: I want because I have ultimate control over you, you 658 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: belong to me. To Cheryl McCollum, what are they looking 659 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: for to prove this case? Cell phone records, DNA, GPS 660 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: on the car the day he was off. What else 661 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: could they be looking for. They're gonna grab his computer. 662 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: They's gonna they're gonna grab things like the you know, 663 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: visitation book at the funeral home. Did he go there? 664 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: They're gonna look at was he part of the search parties. 665 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,440 Speaker 1: They're gonna look for blood, sweat, simul fluid. They're going 666 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 1: to compare the two composites. They're probably gonna merge it 667 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: and you know, make one and show Yet this is 668 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,879 Speaker 1: definitely him they're going to do a voice analysis. Now 669 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: that they have him, they're gonna go back and try 670 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: to gather some of this video showing him walking in 671 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: and out of CBS. They're gonna go back and get 672 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,879 Speaker 1: all his employment clock in times. They're gonna see when 673 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: he interacted with a family, because again, now that we 674 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: have a face and a name, people are gonna be 675 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: able to come forward, just like the family has and 676 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 1: said he did the photographs for us and looked quite 677 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: at us and said no charge, like they renewber him. 678 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: So he's not unfamiliar with a lot of people that 679 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: I think they're going to be able to come out 680 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: and say, you know, whether the cell phone data shows 681 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: that are his computer searches, the things that he's you know, 682 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 1: collected in tens and then of course our kit going 683 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: to be a money tree. Honey. Look, do you remember 684 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: when the superintendent remember the last the last pressor that 685 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,720 Speaker 1: they had, Remember when he stood up on that podium 686 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 1: and he looked at everybody and he said specifically, I 687 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,479 Speaker 1: know you're here, you might be here in this room 688 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: right now. I know you're listening. Do you remember that? Yes? 689 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: I do, And I just wonder if he was in 690 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,760 Speaker 1: the room and what kind of reaction he had. Wendy Passion, 691 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: what were you saying? You know, it seems to me 692 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: like I love Cheryl's laundry list of what needs to 693 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 1: be done. I think a lot of that has been 694 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: done because I remember the super same superintendent when he 695 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: was when he was talking about, you know, we got 696 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,879 Speaker 1: you were close. Don't be surprised that we'd come today 697 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: or tomorrow. To that effect, he already had a lot 698 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: of the information that we're talking about, because that's how 699 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,399 Speaker 1: he was so sure and confident that he had his man. 700 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 1: Now here's the thing. There is a husband wife privilege, 701 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:07,360 Speaker 1: but there is no father child privilege, or father cousin 702 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: or father brother privilege. I just wonder what his family 703 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,440 Speaker 1: may know they could help this investigation. Alexus torres Chuck, 704 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,760 Speaker 1: what's next? Well, we have a hearing in January January thirteenth, 705 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: and then the prosecutor announced today he said, we have 706 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: a trial, So we want to start this trial in 707 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: March twentieth of twenty twenty three, which is a very 708 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: short amount of time. And the fact that they are 709 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,319 Speaker 1: keeping everything so secret much that they have they're ready 710 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,400 Speaker 1: to go. It seems like they have a case that 711 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 1: they are very feel, very strong about. They're ready to go. 712 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: Scott to be DNA, Alexus to us, Chuck gotta be DNA. 713 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: We wait, as justice unfals and as always our prayers 714 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: to the families of Abbey and Libby. Now our friends, goodbye,