WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 107

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<v Speaker 1>A zone media. Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to let you know. This is a compilation episode.

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<v Speaker 1>So every episode of the week that just happened is

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<v Speaker 1>here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package

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<v Speaker 1>for you to listen to in a long stretch if

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<v Speaker 1>you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every

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<v Speaker 1>day this week, there's going to be nothing new here

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<v Speaker 1>for you, But you can make your own decisions.

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<v Speaker 2>This could be a giant disaster. Those were the words

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<v Speaker 2>that Elon Musk texted biographer Walter Isaacson on a Friday

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<v Speaker 2>evening in September twenty twenty two, claiming that the Ukrainian

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<v Speaker 2>military was attempting a sneak attack on the Russian naval

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<v Speaker 2>fleet in Sebastopol. In the annexed region of Crimea must

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<v Speaker 2>have been providing Starlink Internet to the Ukrainian military for

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<v Speaker 2>months as part of their ongoing conflict against Russia's invasion,

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<v Speaker 2>and the resourceful Ukrainians began using Stalink as a way

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<v Speaker 2>to remotely control the Kamikazi drones. Musk, having spoken to

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<v Speaker 2>a Russian ambassador, saw Crimea as a red line that,

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<v Speaker 2>when crossed, would escalate the conflict, potentially even provoking a

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<v Speaker 2>nuclear retaliation, and so he acted disabling or depending on

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<v Speaker 2>who you ask, refusing to enable styling access in the

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<v Speaker 2>Crimea region. When the Ukrainian drone serbs approached their targets,

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<v Speaker 2>they suddenly stopped communicating with their operators and eventually washed

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<v Speaker 2>up ashore, harmless and impotent. While the specific details of

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<v Speaker 2>this episode are hazy, the core truth is unambiguously clear.

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<v Speaker 2>Elon Musk is a supremely powerful individual and through action

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<v Speaker 2>or inaction, has the ability to influence the outcome of

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<v Speaker 2>combat operations in the bloodiest war inflicted upon European generations.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a level of power typically only reserved for nation

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<v Speaker 2>state actors, not tech company CEOs. Throughout history, we've seen

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<v Speaker 2>plenty of examples of individuals and companies with outsized country

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<v Speaker 2>like power and influence. Musk isn't unique in that regard,

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<v Speaker 2>nor is he the sole cautionary tale about why this

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't be allowed to happen. As a private individual operating

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<v Speaker 2>within his capacities as CEO, he's unconstrained by democratic accountability,

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<v Speaker 2>and as a private businessman, he has his own conflicts

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<v Speaker 2>of interest from Tesla's long history of sourcing aluminum from

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<v Speaker 2>Russian companies to his contacts with the highest echelons of

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<v Speaker 2>Russian leadership, including Vladimir Putin himself. Historically, the only real

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<v Speaker 2>accountability mechanism for people like muscusbeed in the media, and

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<v Speaker 2>yet in this case, the media is chosen instead to

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<v Speaker 2>fate the Elon musk creation myth that he's a trailblazing

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<v Speaker 2>real life Tony Stark that will take humanity to the stars,

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<v Speaker 2>rather than asking him many hard questions of any kind.

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<v Speaker 2>This situation is the product of a media industry dominated

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<v Speaker 2>by journalists seeking access to popular public figures, pulling their

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<v Speaker 2>punches in the process. The most notable access journalist is

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<v Speaker 2>Kara Swisher, who has spent decades covering the tech industry

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<v Speaker 2>with a pantomime like aggression, asking the quote unquote hard

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<v Speaker 2>questions without ever really pushing the level of discover that

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<v Speaker 2>might make a source um willing to pus aarticipate. Swisher famously,

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<v Speaker 2>in an interview during the All Things Digital conference in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty ten, convinced Meta CEO then called Facebook Mark Zuckerberg

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<v Speaker 2>to take off his hoodie after asking him a challenging

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<v Speaker 2>question about Facebook's invasion of privacy, only to be distracted

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<v Speaker 2>by the design of the inside of what he was wearing,

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<v Speaker 2>effectively objecting to her own line of questioning for entertainment purposes.

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<v Speaker 2>Eight years later, Swisher would interview Zuckerberg about Cambridge Analytica

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<v Speaker 2>and Russian interference in the twenty sixteen elections, lobbing softball

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<v Speaker 2>questions like make a case for keeping info wars on

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<v Speaker 2>Facebook and responding to Zuckerberg outrights saying he wouldn't ban

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<v Speaker 2>Holocaust and Sandy Hook deniers by asking how it made

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<v Speaker 2>Zuckerberg feel when people said Facebook killed people Nyanmar. The

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<v Speaker 2>Swisher house style is simple, ask a big meeting question,

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<v Speaker 2>and then failed to interrogate a single answer in any way,

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<v Speaker 2>shape or form a round. A month later, Swisher would

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<v Speaker 2>interview Elon Musk, who at that point had aided harassment

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<v Speaker 2>campaigns against reporters, called a man saving children a pedo file,

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<v Speaker 2>and had his companies faced multiple allegations of sexual harassment

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<v Speaker 2>and racism. When asked about his fights with the press

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<v Speaker 2>over Twitter must claim that the Wall Street Journal, whose

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<v Speaker 2>Wisher used to work for, outright lied about investigation into

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<v Speaker 2>Tesla's production figures, to which Swisher asked him if he

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<v Speaker 2>realized the dangers of him saying such things about the press,

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<v Speaker 2>and proceeded to help Must paper over his claims, saying

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<v Speaker 2>that he quote just doesn't like falsehoods. One of the

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<v Speaker 2>richest and most powerful men in the world sat before Swisher,

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<v Speaker 2>and her interrogation involved asking him simple questions about why

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<v Speaker 2>he was doing things, lightly teasing him, and saying that

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<v Speaker 2>he looks and I quote rested in calm. To be clear,

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<v Speaker 2>this is an ultra powerful billionaire, and this is a

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<v Speaker 2>was at the time enterprising journalist who everyone looked to.

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<v Speaker 2>In April twenty twenty two, the week that Must announced

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<v Speaker 2>the Twitter acquisition, Swusher gave a strange interview to James D.

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<v Speaker 2>Walsh of The New Yorker, defending Musk, who had of

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<v Speaker 2>course waived you diligence on the acquisition, did not seem

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<v Speaker 2>to have a single clear plan about how he might

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<v Speaker 2>run the same. She claimed that you couldn't pin Musk down,

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<v Speaker 2>that he was quite complex, and that we would be

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<v Speaker 2>surprised about what he likes and doesn't like. Musk, who

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<v Speaker 2>has invented none of the core products that make him rich,

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<v Speaker 2>is a quote visionary that gave Swish a genuine answers

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<v Speaker 2>and arguably the most damning thing she could have said,

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<v Speaker 2>would call her back. That was her litmus test that

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<v Speaker 2>he would return her calls. Her ultimate defense of Musk

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<v Speaker 2>was that and I quote inventors were very difficult, problematic people,

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<v Speaker 2>and the moderation on Twitter was not working at the

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<v Speaker 2>time of acquisition. These are all, of course, demonstrably force

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<v Speaker 2>based on the events that followed, the growth of hate speech,

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<v Speaker 2>the lack of accountability, the biggest face on the platform,

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<v Speaker 2>and the fact that every third post seems to be

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<v Speaker 2>some kind of spambot, either selling T shirts or pornography

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<v Speaker 2>or cryptocurrency scams. Swisher only turned on Musk when he

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<v Speaker 2>emailed her calling her an asshole in November twenty twenty two,

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<v Speaker 2>including a screenshot where, according to Swisher, she was actually

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<v Speaker 2>defending him, saying that the US government should pay Elon

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<v Speaker 2>Musk for starling. Since then, Musk has gone from a

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<v Speaker 2>difficult to pin down visionary to carver Swisher calling his

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<v Speaker 2>social network a and this is agonizingly horribly written a

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<v Speaker 2>thunderdome of toxic asininity. Swisher, it appears, only worried about

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<v Speaker 2>what she called Musk's price of cocktail of ignorance and

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<v Speaker 2>big ego until he was rude to her. One of

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<v Speaker 2>the most famous tech journalists in the world who has

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<v Speaker 2>failed to take any real shot at any of the

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<v Speaker 2>people she's questioned across decades of doing this has now

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<v Speaker 2>been reduced to making epic dunks that sound like a

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<v Speaker 2>twenty one year old Harry Potter fan trying to cast

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<v Speaker 2>a spell. It's embarrassing. Swisher isn't the sole media figure

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<v Speaker 2>guilty of having treated Elon Musk with kid gloves or

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<v Speaker 2>treating his bloviating with otherwise on ducrid duity. This is

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<v Speaker 2>a problem that affects almost every news outlet and reporter

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<v Speaker 2>that covers billionaires. The assumption is always the billionaires will

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<v Speaker 2>act with empathy, patience, and grace, three things that Musk, Bezo, Zuckerberg,

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<v Speaker 2>and their ilk totally lack. Failing that, one would suppose

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<v Speaker 2>they'd act like a normal person, a losing proposition. If

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<v Speaker 2>you've ever read Jeff Bezos's texts, these people are not

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<v Speaker 2>like us. They do not experience human struggle. They don't

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<v Speaker 2>have bills or bosses or fear of anything, let alone authority.

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<v Speaker 2>Each and every billionaire is effectively above the law, and

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<v Speaker 2>that is the place that you must start to understand them.

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<v Speaker 2>It's deeply frustrating, especially when you consider the myriad of

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<v Speaker 2>opportunities where the media could have taken must task and

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<v Speaker 2>held him accountable. Take high Poop, for example, Musk's concept

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<v Speaker 2>for a high speed mass transit system where pressurized capsules

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<v Speaker 2>would hurtle between cities through vacuum tubes at speeds as

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<v Speaker 2>fast as seven hundred and sixty miles an hour. Hyperloop

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<v Speaker 2>Musk promise would allow commuters to travel between San Francisco

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<v Speaker 2>and Los Angeles in as little as thirty minutes, and

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<v Speaker 2>with the network powered primarily by solar power, with no

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<v Speaker 2>real environmental impact. If anything, this could have been a

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<v Speaker 2>much bigger deal than Tesla. High speed transit that doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>burn fossil fuels could truly have changed the world. So

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<v Speaker 2>what do you think happened? Do you think that Must

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<v Speaker 2>delivered on this on this product that helped play a

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<v Speaker 2>vital role in cementing his image as a real life

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<v Speaker 2>Tony Stark. Not only would it be faster and cheaper

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<v Speaker 2>than anything currently in existence, but it'd be greener too.

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<v Speaker 2>What followed was a gushing or at least gredulous flow

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<v Speaker 2>of media coverage, including from The Washington Post and The

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<v Speaker 2>New York Times, both papers of record. It wasn't until

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<v Speaker 2>the hype gradually died down that people began asking serious

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<v Speaker 2>questions about hyperloop's viability. An exhaustive report published by the

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<v Speaker 2>Transportation Research Laboratory earlier this year raised a serious questions

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<v Speaker 2>about the feasibility of hyperloop, particularly when it comes to

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<v Speaker 2>passenger transportation. Riders, it noted, would be exposed to extreme

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<v Speaker 2>physical and mental stress, with the noise, vibrations, and rapid

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<v Speaker 2>acceleration and deceleration inflicting an unknowable toll on the human body.

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<v Speaker 2>Questions about safety still linger, and then there's the thorny

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<v Speaker 2>issue of cost, with high bloop requiring an all new infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 2>Even the shortest routes would involve a multi billion dollar

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<v Speaker 2>upfront investment. These points were for the most part absent

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<v Speaker 2>entirely from the earliest coverage of high ploop. The media

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<v Speaker 2>also missed the fact that hypeloop wasn't even a new idea.

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<v Speaker 2>In the nineteenth century, countless invetors toyed with the notion

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<v Speaker 2>of an atmospheric railway where vehicles traveled through a near

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<v Speaker 2>vacuum environment on the momentum of pressurized air. A small

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<v Speaker 2>demonstrator route was even built by Ismbard Kingdom Brunel, the

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<v Speaker 2>legendary British engineer who designed the first transatlantic steamship. While

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<v Speaker 2>Highpoloop differed in some meaningful ways, it was still nonetheless

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<v Speaker 2>much like many Musk products, a derivative of an earlier idea,

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<v Speaker 2>The Boring Company. Musk's hilariously named Tunnel Boring startup earned

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<v Speaker 2>similar credulous coverage upon its inception, driven in no small

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<v Speaker 2>part due to Musk's decision to raise working capital by

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<v Speaker 2>selling branded flamethrowers dubbed the not a flame Thrower to

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<v Speaker 2>anyone that paid five hundred dollars. This stunt, aside, the

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<v Speaker 2>Boring Company one praise due to its stated mission to

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<v Speaker 2>reduce the cost of digging tunnels, which are often an

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<v Speaker 2>inevitable and expensive part of road and mass transportation development.

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<v Speaker 2>Like hyperloop, The Boring Company fed into the Tony Stark

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<v Speaker 2>image of a billionaire that could, through sheer force of will,

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<v Speaker 2>change the world and fix once intractable problems. I quote

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<v Speaker 2>Meashable when they said, Musk build machines to travel more

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<v Speaker 2>efficiently on the Earth and above it, so traveling through

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<v Speaker 2>Earth seems within the realm of his capabilities. If anyone

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<v Speaker 2>can transform the seemingly absent minded half joke into world

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<v Speaker 2>changing technology, it's Elon Musk, said The Guardian, And then

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<v Speaker 2>reality here. The Boring Company's first commercial project, a one

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<v Speaker 2>point seven mile tunnel in Las Vegas, where I in

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<v Speaker 2>fact live, wasn't a traditional road tunnel or part of

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<v Speaker 2>an underground metro system. It was, in fact far less impressive,

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<v Speaker 2>a single lane loop where human driven tests, there's varied

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<v Speaker 2>passengers between points of interest in the Las Vegas Convention Center,

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<v Speaker 2>and where traffic jams are a routine frustration for passengers.

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<v Speaker 2>Other projects in other cities, most notably Chicago and Los Angeles,

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<v Speaker 2>have either been canceled or are on indefinite hiatus. There

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<v Speaker 2>is nothing that the Boring Company has done. The tunnel

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<v Speaker 2>in Vegas is useless. It's claustrophobic, it's ugly, feels like

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<v Speaker 2>being in an airport lounge, except there's no food. It's strange.

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't feel like it solves a problem other than

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<v Speaker 2>how can Elon must get more attention? And that really

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<v Speaker 2>is what he craves Musk's wafer thin skin, his volatility,

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<v Speaker 2>and his propensity to overpromise an under deliver has never

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<v Speaker 2>been a secret. While he's been able with some success

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<v Speaker 2>to obfiscate a misdirect through a well crafted media persona,

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<v Speaker 2>the clues have always been there. Musk's reality distortion field

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<v Speaker 2>goes some way to explaining how he has managed to

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<v Speaker 2>amass the extent of the power he has and how

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<v Speaker 2>he cemented himself into our nation's most vital industries like transportation, communications, infrastructure,

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<v Speaker 2>and social media. He has a fairly consistent battle plan.

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<v Speaker 2>He makes a big promise, he delivers enough to make

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<v Speaker 2>the media believe he's for real, and then he relies

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<v Speaker 2>upon the fact that very few parts of the media

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<v Speaker 2>will ever follow up with him. There is no challenging

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<v Speaker 2>Elon Musk in the media. The thinnest amounts of criticism

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<v Speaker 2>are usually meant by a horde of crazed Tesla fans

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<v Speaker 2>or at times Elon Musk himself. He's created a paper

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<v Speaker 2>thin media image built on the smallest, thinnest s structures

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<v Speaker 2>of reality. He has found a way to manipulate the

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<v Speaker 2>media using his large amounts of power, money, and his

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<v Speaker 2>few friends. Elon Musk is a danger to society. He's

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<v Speaker 2>a capricious demagogue desperate for more power and attention, and

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<v Speaker 2>he will do whatever he wants, whereever he wants, wherever

0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.960
<v Speaker 2>he wants, because we are societally unprepared for billionaires. It's

0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.240
<v Speaker 2>no longer healthy, or safe or honest to see Elon

0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Musk as a dorky charlatan, carrying sinks into offices or

0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:36.160
<v Speaker 2>destroying social networks to settle insular beefs. Elon Musk is

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.280
<v Speaker 2>a nation state level actor with a net worth larger

0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:43.439
<v Speaker 2>than the GDP of Ukraine. He associates only with equally

0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 2>spurious reactionaries like Bill Maher, Ronda Santis and David Sachs,

0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.880
<v Speaker 2>and he's easily influenced by anyone who agrees with his

0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:55.920
<v Speaker 2>thinly backed beliefs. Musk isn't polarizing, He's polarization given life,

0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.360
<v Speaker 2>an empty man made of contrarianism and grievances, and he'll

0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.960
<v Speaker 2>happily change the world based on his own personal beliefs.

0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.319
<v Speaker 2>As a result of our market driven government and compliant media,

0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.439
<v Speaker 2>Musk has caused and will continue to cause human suffering.

0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:14.120
<v Speaker 2>An actual death in his pursuit of fame, power and capital.

0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.040
<v Speaker 2>It's time to stop treating him as just an entrepreneur,

0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:22.000
<v Speaker 2>an investor, an executive, or an industry blow hard. As

0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:25.600
<v Speaker 2>a result of our market driven government and compliant media,

0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.440
<v Speaker 2>Musk has caused and will continue to cause human suffering

0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:33.120
<v Speaker 2>an actual death in his pursuit of fame, power and capital.

0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:37.920
<v Speaker 2>It's time to stop treating him as just an entrepreneur,

0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.640
<v Speaker 2>an investor, an executive, or an industry blow hard and

0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.560
<v Speaker 2>see him as a man who has used his incredible

0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.760
<v Speaker 2>wealth and status to twist the world to his petty, ignorant,

0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:52.880
<v Speaker 2>and selfish desires. It's important to realize with complete clarity

0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.520
<v Speaker 2>that Musk makes electric cars that are sold around the

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.720
<v Speaker 2>world and sells rockets to NASA. He runs Twitter x

0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.720
<v Speaker 2>or whatever it's called these days, one of the largest

0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.560
<v Speaker 2>communication networks in the world, and of course Starlink, the

0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:09.320
<v Speaker 2>satellite isp used throughout the world that is specifically marketed

0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 2>to places that are otherwise inaccessible to traditional broadband. This

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.160
<v Speaker 2>is not just the goofy redditor posting epic means and

0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.720
<v Speaker 2>saying exactly anymore. Elon Musk has chosen to and will

0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.560
<v Speaker 2>continue to choose to use his influence over these networks

0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:26.840
<v Speaker 2>to interfere with global events, and because the media and

0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.400
<v Speaker 2>the government has been so utterly tepid in their approach

0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.520
<v Speaker 2>to him, he's accumulated such power and influence that he

0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:37.520
<v Speaker 2>is on some level unstoppable. Since his acquisition of Twitter

0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.920
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty two and the subsequent layoffs of six

0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.120
<v Speaker 2>thousand people, Musk has revealed to the world his deep

0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:49.080
<v Speaker 2>seated reactionary beliefs and his noxious, pathetic victim complex. He

0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.160
<v Speaker 2>has become obsessed with the woke mind virus, a term

0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.680
<v Speaker 2>that he uses to vaguely refer to everything from progressive

0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:58.560
<v Speaker 2>education on college campuses to San Francisco's growing homeless problem.

0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.960
<v Speaker 2>He's made Twitter's box prob one that he tried to

0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:06.600
<v Speaker 2>use to cancel the original acquisition, significantly worse, littering replies

0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:08.400
<v Speaker 2>with bots trying to sell your t shirts or make

0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.280
<v Speaker 2>you join the latest script ocurrency scam, some of which

0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:16.080
<v Speaker 2>even include elon Musk's face. He took Twitter's verification system,

0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:18.960
<v Speaker 2>a flawed yet workable solution to verifying whether a tweet

0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:20.920
<v Speaker 2>came from the person who actually sent it, and turned

0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:22.960
<v Speaker 2>it into an eight dollars a month premium account that

0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.320
<v Speaker 2>verifies nothing other than whether someone is capable of completing

0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:30.000
<v Speaker 2>a credit card transaction, and by destroying Twitter's trust and

0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.520
<v Speaker 2>safety team, Musk has allowed the world's real time communications

0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.680
<v Speaker 2>channel to become one rife with racism and other hate speech,

0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.400
<v Speaker 2>leading to Fortune five hundred advertisers worrying that the network

0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:44.400
<v Speaker 2>and I quote perpetuates racism, which was raised in a

0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.400
<v Speaker 2>Semaphore story from earlier in this year, Musk has shown

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.280
<v Speaker 2>he is more than willing to do things based on

0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.000
<v Speaker 2>not what's good for the world, his businesses, or his users,

0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.600
<v Speaker 2>but on what will confirm his biases and protect his

0:16:55.680 --> 0:17:00.000
<v Speaker 2>financial interests. As a result of these moronic and malicious choices,

0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Twitter's valuation is tanked less than a third of the

0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.640
<v Speaker 2>forty four billion dollars he paid for it, losing half

0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.560
<v Speaker 2>of their advertising revenue and changing their name to X,

0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.120
<v Speaker 2>which some have argued killed further billions of the original

0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:17.440
<v Speaker 2>company's brand value. Being a selfish, ignorant, and gormous Charlatan,

0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:21.080
<v Speaker 2>Musk has now blamed Jewish nonprofit the Anti Defamation League

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.159
<v Speaker 2>for ruining his company, claiming that the ADL had pressured

0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.920
<v Speaker 2>advertisers into killing X slash Twitter. Musk had previously sued

0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:32.040
<v Speaker 2>the Center for Countering Digital Hate, another nonprofit that published

0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:35.320
<v Speaker 2>research showing the growth and hate speech on the platform.

0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.080
<v Speaker 2>Musk is now fine with the ADL because they resumed

0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:43.399
<v Speaker 2>advertising a deeply confused and utterly pointless exercise that only

0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.679
<v Speaker 2>sought to further increase bigotry on his website. For all

0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.520
<v Speaker 2>his statements around freedom of speech, Musk is the ultimate

0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.560
<v Speaker 2>capitalist dictator, willing to use his money to intimidate and

0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.880
<v Speaker 2>censor those who dared to criticize him. He's already done

0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 2>so on Twitter, banning an account that tracked publicly available

0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.480
<v Speaker 2>records of private jet flights, censoring over four hundred tweets

0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.480
<v Speaker 2>critical of Turkish President Erdigan in the week's running up

0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 2>to an election, suppress accounts critical of Indian Prime Minister

0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.399
<v Speaker 2>Nearendra Modi, and cut access to links to newsletter platform

0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:17.360
<v Speaker 2>Substack when they launched a network competitive to Twitter. Musk

0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:20.200
<v Speaker 2>is a propagandist willing to work with any fellow reactionaries

0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:24.240
<v Speaker 2>who feel scorned by progressivism, personally helping Republican presidential candidate

0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.600
<v Speaker 2>Ron DeSantis launch his campaign on Twitter and funneling money

0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:31.560
<v Speaker 2>to alleged sex trafficker Andrew Tate through Twitter's Creator program

0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:35.800
<v Speaker 2>on our nation's roads. Muscus created another problem. In March

0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.000
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three, According to The Washington Post, a seventeen

0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.120
<v Speaker 2>year old stepped off of a school bus on North

0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.680
<v Speaker 2>Carolina Highway five point sixty one. As he stepped off

0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:49.400
<v Speaker 2>a testa Model y allegedly with Tesla's autonomous autopilot engaged

0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:51.880
<v Speaker 2>hit him at forty five miles an hour, throwing him

0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.159
<v Speaker 2>into the windshield and leaving him lying face down on

0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:58.080
<v Speaker 2>the pavement. He thankfully survived, but broke and fractured his

0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:02.679
<v Speaker 2>leg in the process. Incident, which the National Highway Traffic

0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Safety Administration is still investigating, is part of a growing

0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.639
<v Speaker 2>list of victims of Tesla's open beta test of quote

0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:13.480
<v Speaker 2>full self driving, a buggy dangerous software available on hundreds

0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.800
<v Speaker 2>of thousands of Tesla vehicles allowing users to let the

0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:20.000
<v Speaker 2>car drive, which has resulted in the deaths of seventeen

0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.760
<v Speaker 2>people and led to seven one hundred and thirty six

0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:27.440
<v Speaker 2>other injuries and crashes. In theory, activating Tesla's full self

0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.240
<v Speaker 2>driving lets your Tesla take the wheel, making turns, avoiding

0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:34.040
<v Speaker 2>other vehicles, maintaining speed avoiding objects and theoretically helping you

0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:37.719
<v Speaker 2>arrive safely at your destination. The problem is that this

0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.720
<v Speaker 2>has only ever been a beta, meaning that every new

0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.040
<v Speaker 2>release involves some sort of new bug, such as the

0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:48.240
<v Speaker 2>one that Electric Car blog editor Fred Lambert claimed tried

0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.640
<v Speaker 2>to kill him in September twenty twenty three by trying

0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.080
<v Speaker 2>to veer at highway speed into the median strip on

0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:57.520
<v Speaker 2>the road. One might imagine that such a thing is illegal.

0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Effectively unleashing beta software onto the world's road without sufficiently

0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.879
<v Speaker 2>testing it would for any normal person lead to imprisonment

0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.119
<v Speaker 2>and a lifetime of fines. Musk, thanks to his incredible

0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:10.840
<v Speaker 2>wealth and power equivalent to that of a small nation,

0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:14.399
<v Speaker 2>has managed to avoid much scrutiny with the occasional government

0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:18.040
<v Speaker 2>investigations that never seem to go anywhere, and despite a

0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:22.200
<v Speaker 2>well documented culture of racism and sexism, very little seems

0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:25.639
<v Speaker 2>to happen to test the at all. This is because

0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:29.080
<v Speaker 2>our society, in its government, its media, and its citizen

0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:33.600
<v Speaker 2>try is woefully unprepared to deal with billionaires. Musk is

0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.560
<v Speaker 2>able to operate as a noxious, abusive, and reckless monster

0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.560
<v Speaker 2>in public, using his companies as vehicles to lend himself,

0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:43.719
<v Speaker 2>money and political weapons with little scrutiny or punishment on

0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:46.720
<v Speaker 2>their own. One might fob off these concerns as one

0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:50.080
<v Speaker 2>time things, but the reality is there's a pattern of

0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:54.800
<v Speaker 2>malicious and capricious acts or one after another, again and again,

0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:58.919
<v Speaker 2>done in broad daylight for all to see. Musk has

0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.680
<v Speaker 2>shown he will push what ever envelope he sees fit,

0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.919
<v Speaker 2>and as Ronan Pharaoh's New York Magazine piece shows, there

0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:08.639
<v Speaker 2>are very few people in the government, former and otherwise

0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.360
<v Speaker 2>anywhere really, not investors, not other members of the Silicon

0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:16.520
<v Speaker 2>Valley elite, who are willing or able to get in

0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:21.159
<v Speaker 2>the way. Musk is so unbelievably rich, well connected, and

0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:24.800
<v Speaker 2>powerful that he can push around just about anybody, even

0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.439
<v Speaker 2>if they work for the Pentagon. Yet Musk's desperation for

0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:30.600
<v Speaker 2>attention and adulation mean that he can be pulled in

0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:34.199
<v Speaker 2>any direction that feels like it scorns his critics, And

0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:36.480
<v Speaker 2>when his critics are pretty much anyone who isn't a

0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.480
<v Speaker 2>right wing lunatic, it almost guarantees he will continue to

0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:44.680
<v Speaker 2>power around with authoritarian regimes that will influence his remarkably

0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:49.760
<v Speaker 2>malleable brain. The actual solution will be to treat Musk

0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:53.359
<v Speaker 2>as what he is, a dangerous entity with a higher

0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:57.080
<v Speaker 2>GDP than Ukraine and an ego that rivals their invaders

0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:01.680
<v Speaker 2>president regardless of what happened in crimea Musk is the

0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.520
<v Speaker 2>ability to know when attacks are happening and influence their

0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:07.639
<v Speaker 2>outcome as a result of his for profit, privately held

0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:11.760
<v Speaker 2>satellite internet communications firm that the US government is paying for.

0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:16.920
<v Speaker 2>Elon Musk is a nation state global threat and must

0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.880
<v Speaker 2>be treated as such. He must be treated as if

0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:23.560
<v Speaker 2>he will make decisions based only on what he believes

0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:27.040
<v Speaker 2>will benefit or amuse him. He's the wish dot Com

0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:32.520
<v Speaker 2>version of Bond's earned stavro Blofeld, an offensive, charmless, and

0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.720
<v Speaker 2>boorish monster that has successfully bought his way into the

0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:38.160
<v Speaker 2>elite and found that no matter what he does, their

0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:42.359
<v Speaker 2>patience is unlimited and their scruples are few. Musk, like

0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:46.080
<v Speaker 2>another high profile narcissist, the former President Donald Trump, routinely

0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:50.400
<v Speaker 2>finds himself ensnared in litigation, both in regulators and private individuals,

0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:53.399
<v Speaker 2>even though the government never really seems to actually do

0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:56.600
<v Speaker 2>anything to him. The SEC is currently investigating Musk for

0:22:56.640 --> 0:23:01.040
<v Speaker 2>securities violations concerning his acquisition of Twitter. This would be

0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:03.800
<v Speaker 2>his third tryst with the Commission, the first in twenty eighteen,

0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:09.160
<v Speaker 2>the second in twenty nineteen. In both cases, very little happen. However,

0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:13.200
<v Speaker 2>at the same time, he faces actions from former employees

0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:16.000
<v Speaker 2>stiffed on severance pay and from those who allege age

0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:19.080
<v Speaker 2>and gender discrimination with factors in their dismissal from Twitter.

0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:22.880
<v Speaker 2>For Musk, these lawsuits are unlikely to be anything other

0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:25.800
<v Speaker 2>than the minor annoyance rather than any kind of existential

0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:29.400
<v Speaker 2>throat or something that otherwise curbs is most egregious of behaviors.

0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:33.600
<v Speaker 2>There are people who could help. There are people that

0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:34.680
<v Speaker 2>could sway.

0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:35.040
<v Speaker 3>You on Musk.

0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:39.800
<v Speaker 2>You know, people as rich as him, Tim Cook, Mark Benioff,

0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:42.320
<v Speaker 2>Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and the rest of the world's

0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:46.040
<v Speaker 2>billionaires feel no need to correct Musk's behavior. They don't

0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:48.520
<v Speaker 2>need to interfere or even chide him for his disgraceful

0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:51.440
<v Speaker 2>acts because doing so would potentially make their actions and

0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:54.760
<v Speaker 2>wealth more conspicuous, which is far more important to protect

0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:58.639
<v Speaker 2>than free speech or human lives really, anything that normal

0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:01.800
<v Speaker 2>people face. They may act as if they have civic

0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:04.840
<v Speaker 2>responsibility for the few people we have that could actually

0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:07.520
<v Speaker 2>change things. The ones with the war chest to box

0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:10.360
<v Speaker 2>out Musk. Blocking X from app stores and excluding him

0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:13.920
<v Speaker 2>from their circles are sitting on their hands. One approach

0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:17.840
<v Speaker 2>proposed by Stephen Feldstein in The Atlantic is to treat

0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:21.800
<v Speaker 2>Musks businesses as they are vital to national security, and

0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:24.440
<v Speaker 2>as a result, take them into public control when necessary.

0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:28.560
<v Speaker 2>This wouldn't be without precedent. The legislation that allows this,

0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:31.920
<v Speaker 2>the Defense Production Act, has been invoked fifty times since

0:24:31.960 --> 0:24:35.320
<v Speaker 2>its inception, both in times of war and civil necessity

0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:39.480
<v Speaker 2>like the twenty twenty two infant formula shortage. While Stalink

0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:42.080
<v Speaker 2>would remain a privately held company, it would be obliged

0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:46.200
<v Speaker 2>to prioritize the national need. Full nationalization, Falsteine noted, would

0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:50.120
<v Speaker 2>also be a possibility if Musk failed to cooperate. Full

0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:53.640
<v Speaker 2>nationalization would be a drastic measure. But at this point,

0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:58.200
<v Speaker 2>what other options exist for Elon Musk? What other options

0:24:58.280 --> 0:25:02.040
<v Speaker 2>exist for someone that is so reckless, so dangerous, so selfish,

0:25:02.080 --> 0:25:06.439
<v Speaker 2>and so capricious. What options exist to deal with someone

0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:09.440
<v Speaker 2>who has inserted himself into the most vital aspects of

0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:15.639
<v Speaker 2>the American economy, making himself billions of dollars off of governments, subsidies,

0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:20.240
<v Speaker 2>and contracts. How the hell do you handle someone who

0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:24.359
<v Speaker 2>has insulated himself from media scrutiny despite holding immense nation

0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:28.159
<v Speaker 2>state power. Musk is not a goofy weirdow or the

0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:32.200
<v Speaker 2>real life Tony Stark. He's a fragile, meanhearted ogre one

0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:34.640
<v Speaker 2>hell bent on seeing his whims brought to life at

0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:38.119
<v Speaker 2>any cost. The only way to write about this man,

0:25:38.359 --> 0:25:42.639
<v Speaker 2>the only fair coverage of Elon Musk, the only clear

0:25:42.720 --> 0:25:46.280
<v Speaker 2>perception of this man, is to frame him as a villain,

0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:49.479
<v Speaker 2>a bigot, a bully, and a crook. But what do

0:25:49.520 --> 0:25:51.920
<v Speaker 2>you do about the man who has everything?

0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:06.280
<v Speaker 4>Hello? Everyone, it's me James, and I am joining you

0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:10.720
<v Speaker 4>today for another and long series of the little recordings

0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:13.800
<v Speaker 4>where I ask you to give us your money. Once again,

0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:15.800
<v Speaker 4>I am asking you to support the mutual aid work

0:26:15.880 --> 0:26:18.920
<v Speaker 4>being done at the border. I'm recording this in November,

0:26:19.440 --> 0:26:23.040
<v Speaker 4>and this week we have terrible weather forecasts that will

0:26:23.600 --> 0:26:26.920
<v Speaker 4>make conditions in her Cumba extremely dangerous for people who

0:26:26.920 --> 0:26:29.920
<v Speaker 4>are detained out there by the Department of Homeland Security.

0:26:30.400 --> 0:26:33.119
<v Speaker 4>It will mean that it's no exaggeration to say that

0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:35.760
<v Speaker 4>people's lives will be at risk and that the important

0:26:35.840 --> 0:26:38.840
<v Speaker 4>mutual aid work that's already been done will only become

0:26:38.840 --> 0:26:41.520
<v Speaker 4>more important as we get rain, we get snow, and

0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:44.080
<v Speaker 4>we get cold temperatures, and people continue to be detained

0:26:44.080 --> 0:26:48.440
<v Speaker 4>without shelter, food, water, or adequate clothing. If you would

0:26:48.480 --> 0:26:50.840
<v Speaker 4>like to support those efforts, you can find the way

0:26:50.840 --> 0:26:56.000
<v Speaker 4>to do so at link tree slash Border Kindness. There's

0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:59.000
<v Speaker 4>a dot before the ee, so it's l I NK

0:26:59.359 --> 0:27:04.080
<v Speaker 4>tr ee slash Border Kindness. I'll also post a link

0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:05.880
<v Speaker 4>on my Twitter if you'd like to find it there.

0:27:06.119 --> 0:27:14.440
<v Speaker 5>Thank you, Hello, everybody, Welcome to It could happen here.

0:27:14.920 --> 0:27:18.639
<v Speaker 5>This is Sharene. I'm back to talk about Palestine because

0:27:18.720 --> 0:27:21.480
<v Speaker 5>it's important, But when it comes to the history of

0:27:21.520 --> 0:27:24.399
<v Speaker 5>the creation of Israel and the subsequent ethnic cleansing and

0:27:24.480 --> 0:27:27.480
<v Speaker 5>mass expulsion of the Palestinian people, I feel like there's

0:27:27.520 --> 0:27:31.560
<v Speaker 5>a part of history that often gets overlooked. People usually

0:27:31.560 --> 0:27:34.359
<v Speaker 5>say Israel was created in nineteen forty eight, but the

0:27:34.440 --> 0:27:38.560
<v Speaker 5>intent to create it actually started decades before that. We're

0:27:38.600 --> 0:27:41.840
<v Speaker 5>going to be talking about the Balfour Declaration, which resulted

0:27:41.920 --> 0:27:44.840
<v Speaker 5>in a significant upheaval in the lives of Palestinians and

0:27:45.000 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 5>was issued over a century ago. On November two, nineteen seventeen.

0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:53.359
<v Speaker 5>The declaration turned the Zionist aim of establishing a Jewish

0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:57.200
<v Speaker 5>state in Palestine into a reality. The pledge is generally

0:27:57.320 --> 0:27:59.879
<v Speaker 5>viewed as one of the main catalysts of the Nekba,

0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:02.879
<v Speaker 5>the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in nineteen forty eight, and

0:28:02.960 --> 0:28:06.119
<v Speaker 5>the conflict that ensued with the zion Estate of Israel.

0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:09.720
<v Speaker 5>The Balfour Declaration is regarded as one of the most

0:28:09.760 --> 0:28:12.960
<v Speaker 5>controversial and contested documents in the modern history of the

0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:17.280
<v Speaker 5>Arab world. So what is it the Balfour Declaration It

0:28:17.400 --> 0:28:21.000
<v Speaker 5>means or is translated to Balfour's Promise in Arabic. It

0:28:21.080 --> 0:28:24.160
<v Speaker 5>was a public pledge by Britain in nineteen seventeen, declaring

0:28:24.200 --> 0:28:27.560
<v Speaker 5>its aim to quote establish a national home for the

0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:31.680
<v Speaker 5>Jewish people in Palestine. The declaration came in the form

0:28:31.720 --> 0:28:34.920
<v Speaker 5>of a letter from Britain's then Foreign Secretary, Arthur Balfour,

0:28:35.200 --> 0:28:39.200
<v Speaker 5>addressed to Lionel Walter Rothschild, a figurehead of the British

0:28:39.320 --> 0:28:42.800
<v Speaker 5>Jewish community at the time. The declaration was made during

0:28:42.800 --> 0:28:45.720
<v Speaker 5>World War One, which was just a reminder from nineteen

0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:49.720
<v Speaker 5>fourteen to nineteen eighteen, and this declaration was included in

0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:52.640
<v Speaker 5>the terms of the British mandate for Palestine after the

0:28:52.680 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 5>dissolution of the Ottoman Empire. So on November two, nineteen seventeen,

0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:01.480
<v Speaker 5>the Balfour Declaration became the basis for the movement to

0:29:01.560 --> 0:29:05.280
<v Speaker 5>create a Jewish state in Palestine. A week later, the

0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:08.240
<v Speaker 5>declaration was published in the Times of London for all

0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:11.400
<v Speaker 5>the public to see. The content of the letter is

0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:13.280
<v Speaker 5>rather short, so I'm just going to read some of

0:29:13.320 --> 0:29:18.320
<v Speaker 5>it right now. It goes, Dear Lord Rothschild, I have

0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:20.800
<v Speaker 5>much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His

0:29:20.880 --> 0:29:24.840
<v Speaker 5>Majesty's Government, the following Declaration of Sympathy with the Jewish

0:29:25.000 --> 0:29:28.800
<v Speaker 5>Zionist Aspirations, which has been submitted to and approved by

0:29:29.000 --> 0:29:33.720
<v Speaker 5>the Cabinet. His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment

0:29:33.760 --> 0:29:36.280
<v Speaker 5>in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,

0:29:36.560 --> 0:29:39.720
<v Speaker 5>and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement

0:29:39.880 --> 0:29:43.160
<v Speaker 5>of this object. Keep in mind, at this time the

0:29:43.200 --> 0:29:46.360
<v Speaker 5>British had no control over Palestine. It was still under

0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:49.160
<v Speaker 5>the Ottoman Empire, but in this letter Britain was essentially

0:29:49.240 --> 0:29:51.640
<v Speaker 5>preparing to take it over in the very near future.

0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:54.560
<v Speaker 5>I also want to include that at this time Jewish

0:29:54.600 --> 0:29:58.040
<v Speaker 5>people only made up six percent of the Palestinian population.

0:29:59.000 --> 0:30:01.360
<v Speaker 5>I'm going to play audio from a video posted by

0:30:01.400 --> 0:30:04.400
<v Speaker 5>former guests of the show The Amazing Sim Kern, where

0:30:04.400 --> 0:30:07.600
<v Speaker 5>they break down the last part of the declaration. Sim

0:30:07.640 --> 0:30:11.080
<v Speaker 5>is referencing in this audio Rashid Khalidi's book The one

0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:14.600
<v Speaker 5>Hundred Years War on Palestine, A History of Settler Colonialism

0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:17.480
<v Speaker 5>and Resistance nineteen seventeen to twenty seventeen.

0:30:18.000 --> 0:30:20.920
<v Speaker 6>It being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which

0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:24.000
<v Speaker 6>may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non

0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:27.640
<v Speaker 6>Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights in political status

0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:30.600
<v Speaker 6>enjoyed by Jews in any other country. That last bit

0:30:30.640 --> 0:30:32.840
<v Speaker 6>sounds like, all right, well, he's saying we were not

0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:35.720
<v Speaker 6>going to tread on the civil and religious rights of Palestinians.

0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:36.760
<v Speaker 7>That's pretty good, right.

0:30:37.080 --> 0:30:39.320
<v Speaker 6>But in The One hundred Years War on Palestine, the

0:30:39.320 --> 0:30:41.920
<v Speaker 6>book by Rashid Khalidi that I am encouraging you all

0:30:42.040 --> 0:30:45.240
<v Speaker 6>to keep reading along with me this week, Khalidi does

0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:48.360
<v Speaker 6>a great job breaking down the rhetoric of this declaration

0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:51.240
<v Speaker 6>and why it was actually a declaration of war upon

0:30:51.280 --> 0:30:55.160
<v Speaker 6>the Palestinian people. Yes, they were promised civil and religious rights,

0:30:55.440 --> 0:30:59.040
<v Speaker 6>but they were not granted political or national rights, and

0:30:59.120 --> 0:31:01.960
<v Speaker 6>this meant that for the next fifteen years, as people

0:31:02.000 --> 0:31:05.440
<v Speaker 6>in Palestine tried to resist the establishment of a zion

0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:07.920
<v Speaker 6>Est state within their country, the takeover of all their

0:31:08.000 --> 0:31:11.880
<v Speaker 6>land by Zionist groups, they were unable to find any

0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:15.040
<v Speaker 6>audience in the halls of power because Balfour had declared

0:31:15.080 --> 0:31:17.720
<v Speaker 6>them to not have these rights and to not really

0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:21.240
<v Speaker 6>be people. They weren't even referred to as Arabs or

0:31:21.280 --> 0:31:26.000
<v Speaker 6>Palestinians in the Declaration, just non Jewish. Ninety four percent

0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:28.680
<v Speaker 6>of the people of this land had just been written

0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:31.640
<v Speaker 6>out of existence as far as the Western powers were concerned.

0:31:31.960 --> 0:31:35.400
<v Speaker 6>Kalidi describes how between nineteen seventeen and nineteen thirty six,

0:31:35.440 --> 0:31:39.760
<v Speaker 6>almost all of the organized Palestinian resistance to Zionism was

0:31:40.000 --> 0:31:43.280
<v Speaker 6>peaceful and legalistic. They would form political committees, but the

0:31:43.280 --> 0:31:45.640
<v Speaker 6>British said, you're not allowed to have political activity and

0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:48.680
<v Speaker 6>shut those down harshly. They would send delegations to the

0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:50.800
<v Speaker 6>League of Nations, to other countries to try to get

0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:53.280
<v Speaker 6>to support to Britain, but they would not even be

0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:55.400
<v Speaker 6>seen in the halls of power. They would not even

0:31:55.400 --> 0:31:58.840
<v Speaker 6>get audiences because they were told basically, as Palestinians, you

0:31:58.920 --> 0:32:02.480
<v Speaker 6>have no rights allowed to have nationalistic interests.

0:32:03.200 --> 0:32:06.360
<v Speaker 5>As I mentioned, the declaration was included in the terms

0:32:06.440 --> 0:32:09.920
<v Speaker 5>of the British Mandate for Palestine. The so called mandate

0:32:10.000 --> 0:32:13.040
<v Speaker 5>system set up by the Allied powers was a thinly

0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:17.600
<v Speaker 5>veiled form of colonialism and occupation. In retrospective course, it's

0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:21.120
<v Speaker 5>not a very thin veil at all. The mandate system

0:32:21.160 --> 0:32:24.400
<v Speaker 5>transferred rule from the territories that were previously controlled by

0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:28.280
<v Speaker 5>the powers defeated in the war Germany, Austria, Hungary, the

0:32:28.280 --> 0:32:31.720
<v Speaker 5>Ottoman Empire in Bulgaria to those who were victorious in

0:32:31.760 --> 0:32:35.360
<v Speaker 5>the war. The declared aim of the mandate system was

0:32:35.400 --> 0:32:37.680
<v Speaker 5>to allow the winners of the war to administer the

0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:42.000
<v Speaker 5>newly emerging states until they could become independent. The case

0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:45.840
<v Speaker 5>of Palestine, however, was unique. Unlike the rest of the

0:32:45.920 --> 0:32:48.720
<v Speaker 5>post war mandates. The main goal of the British mandate

0:32:48.760 --> 0:32:51.680
<v Speaker 5>there was to create the conditions for the establishment of

0:32:51.720 --> 0:32:55.560
<v Speaker 5>a Jewish national home, even though Jews, again at the time,

0:32:55.920 --> 0:32:59.800
<v Speaker 5>constituted only six percent of the population. Upon the start

0:32:59.840 --> 0:33:02.720
<v Speaker 5>of the mandate, the British began to facilitate immigration of

0:33:02.760 --> 0:33:07.160
<v Speaker 5>European Jews to Palestine, between nineteen twenty two and nineteen

0:33:07.200 --> 0:33:10.720
<v Speaker 5>thirty five, the Jewish population rose to nearly twenty seven

0:33:10.760 --> 0:33:14.320
<v Speaker 5>percent of the total population. And even though the Balfour

0:33:14.400 --> 0:33:18.040
<v Speaker 5>Declaration included the caveat that quote nothing shall be done

0:33:18.320 --> 0:33:21.480
<v Speaker 5>which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of the

0:33:21.520 --> 0:33:25.120
<v Speaker 5>existing non Jewish communities in Palestine, the British Mandate was

0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:27.160
<v Speaker 5>set up in a way to equip Jews with the

0:33:27.160 --> 0:33:30.280
<v Speaker 5>tools to establish self rule at the expense of the

0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:35.480
<v Speaker 5>Palestinian Arabs. Understandably enough, the document is seen as controversial

0:33:35.520 --> 0:33:38.880
<v Speaker 5>for several reasons. First, it was, in the words of

0:33:38.920 --> 0:33:43.360
<v Speaker 5>the late Palestine American academic Edward Zaid, quote made by

0:33:43.440 --> 0:33:47.400
<v Speaker 5>European power about a non European territory in a flat

0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:50.600
<v Speaker 5>disregard of both the presence and wishes of the native

0:33:50.640 --> 0:33:55.120
<v Speaker 5>majority resident in that territory. In essence, the Balfour Declaration

0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:57.920
<v Speaker 5>promised Jews a land where the natives made up more

0:33:57.960 --> 0:34:03.040
<v Speaker 5>than ninety percent of the populace. Second, the declaration was

0:34:03.080 --> 0:34:07.520
<v Speaker 5>one of three conflicting wartime promises made by the British.

0:34:07.720 --> 0:34:11.720
<v Speaker 5>Surprise surprise, when the declaration was released, Britain had already

0:34:11.800 --> 0:34:14.600
<v Speaker 5>promised the Arab's independence from the Ottoman Empire in the

0:34:14.680 --> 0:34:20.240
<v Speaker 5>nineteen fifteen Hussein McMahon Correspondents. However, the British also promised

0:34:20.239 --> 0:34:22.800
<v Speaker 5>the French and a separate treaty known as the nineteen

0:34:22.840 --> 0:34:26.439
<v Speaker 5>sixteen psychs Pico Agreement, that the majority of Palestine would

0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:29.800
<v Speaker 5>be under international administration, while the rest of the region

0:34:29.880 --> 0:34:32.759
<v Speaker 5>would be split between the two colonial powers after the war.

0:34:33.520 --> 0:34:36.880
<v Speaker 5>This Hussain McMahon correspondence was a series of letters exchanged

0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:40.040
<v Speaker 5>in nineteen fifteen to nineteen sixteen during World War One

0:34:40.280 --> 0:34:43.040
<v Speaker 5>between Hussain and Beinnati, who was the Emir of Mecca,

0:34:43.160 --> 0:34:46.600
<v Speaker 5>and Sir Henry McMahon, the British High Commissioner in Egypt.

0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:51.160
<v Speaker 5>In general terms, the correspondence effectively traded British support of

0:34:51.160 --> 0:34:54.560
<v Speaker 5>an independent Arab state for the Arab assistance in opposing

0:34:54.600 --> 0:34:59.080
<v Speaker 5>the Ottoman Empire. However, the correspondence was later contradicted by

0:34:59.080 --> 0:35:02.520
<v Speaker 5>two things, the incompatible terms of the sex Peco Agreement,

0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:05.440
<v Speaker 5>which was secretly concluded between Britain and France in May

0:35:05.480 --> 0:35:11.880
<v Speaker 5>nineteen sixteen, and Britain's Balfour Declaration in nineteen seventeen. The declaration, however,

0:35:12.080 --> 0:35:15.520
<v Speaker 5>meant that Palestine would come under British occupation, that the

0:35:15.520 --> 0:35:19.919
<v Speaker 5>Palestinian Arabs who lived there would not gain independence. Third,

0:35:20.200 --> 0:35:24.040
<v Speaker 5>the declaration introduced a notion that was reportedly unprecedented in

0:35:24.120 --> 0:35:29.000
<v Speaker 5>international law, that of a quote national home. The use

0:35:29.040 --> 0:35:31.960
<v Speaker 5>of the vague term national home for the Jewish people

0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:35.960
<v Speaker 5>as opposed to state left the meaning open to interpretation.

0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:40.000
<v Speaker 5>Earlier drafts of the document used the phrase quote the

0:35:40.120 --> 0:35:43.840
<v Speaker 5>reconstitution of Palestine as a Jewish state, but that was

0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:47.879
<v Speaker 5>later changed. However, in a meeting with Zionist leader Heim

0:35:47.920 --> 0:35:51.319
<v Speaker 5>Wizman in nineteen twenty two, Arthur Balfour and then Prime

0:35:51.360 --> 0:35:55.360
<v Speaker 5>Minister David Lloyd George reportedly said that the Balfour Declaration

0:35:55.520 --> 0:35:59.880
<v Speaker 5>was quote always meant to be an eventual Jewish state. Okay,

0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:02.560
<v Speaker 5>let's take our first break here because.

0:36:02.280 --> 0:36:02.719
<v Speaker 4>I have to.

0:36:03.520 --> 0:36:07.120
<v Speaker 5>Okay, bye, and we're back. So we're talking about the

0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:12.240
<v Speaker 5>Balfour Declaration. But who exactly is Arthur Balfour. Sim Kern

0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:14.880
<v Speaker 5>in that same video that I played earlier, explains that

0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:17.600
<v Speaker 5>he can be seen as the person most responsible for

0:36:17.719 --> 0:36:21.280
<v Speaker 5>violence in the Middle East for the past century because

0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:24.719
<v Speaker 5>when he wrote his declaration in nineteen seventeen, he effectively

0:36:24.760 --> 0:36:28.759
<v Speaker 5>wrote Palestinian rights out of existence and surprising no one.

0:36:29.000 --> 0:36:32.359
<v Speaker 5>Arthur Balfour was a terrible guy. He was a white supremacist,

0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:37.040
<v Speaker 5>a racist, and an anti Semite. The Balfour Declaration is

0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:41.040
<v Speaker 5>a statement that can fit into two tweets. As we mentioned,

0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:44.480
<v Speaker 5>Arthur Balfour, the British Foreign Secretary at the time, announced

0:36:44.520 --> 0:36:48.080
<v Speaker 5>that the British government would support establishing a national home

0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:51.080
<v Speaker 5>for the Jewish people in Palestine, and more than one

0:36:51.160 --> 0:36:54.480
<v Speaker 5>hundred years later, those written words continue to define the

0:36:54.560 --> 0:36:59.080
<v Speaker 5>dynamic between Israelis and Palestinians. In twenty seventeen, marking one

0:36:59.120 --> 0:37:03.200
<v Speaker 5>hundred years the declaration, Little Bitch Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin

0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:06.840
<v Speaker 5>and Yahoo went to London to commemorate the centennial occasion

0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:10.280
<v Speaker 5>with Theresa May. I hope you know by now, though,

0:37:10.719 --> 0:37:14.719
<v Speaker 5>that the declaration is really nothing worth celebrating, And though

0:37:14.760 --> 0:37:17.440
<v Speaker 5>he may be most known for aiding the Zionist cause

0:37:17.480 --> 0:37:21.440
<v Speaker 5>in nineteen seventeen, it's crucial to remember that Arthur Balfour

0:37:21.800 --> 0:37:25.160
<v Speaker 5>was a white supremacist. He made that much clear in

0:37:25.200 --> 0:37:28.279
<v Speaker 5>his own words. In nineteen o six, the British House

0:37:28.320 --> 0:37:31.000
<v Speaker 5>of Commons was engaged in a debate about the Native

0:37:31.040 --> 0:37:34.800
<v Speaker 5>blacks in South Africa. Nearly all the members of Parliament

0:37:34.840 --> 0:37:39.440
<v Speaker 5>agreed that the disenfranchisement of the blacks was evil, but

0:37:39.480 --> 0:37:44.600
<v Speaker 5>not Balfour, who almost alone argued against it. When talking

0:37:44.640 --> 0:37:47.840
<v Speaker 5>about the black people in South Africa, he said, we

0:37:47.960 --> 0:37:51.040
<v Speaker 5>have to face the facts. Men are not born equal

0:37:51.640 --> 0:37:53.920
<v Speaker 5>the white in the black races are not born with

0:37:54.000 --> 0:37:57.880
<v Speaker 5>equal capacities. They are born with different capacities which education

0:37:58.160 --> 0:38:02.560
<v Speaker 5>cannot and will not change. But Balfour's troubling views were

0:38:02.600 --> 0:38:06.320
<v Speaker 5>not limited to Africa. In fact, despite his now iconic

0:38:06.360 --> 0:38:09.719
<v Speaker 5>support for Zionism that celebrated by Zionists everywhere, he was

0:38:09.760 --> 0:38:12.640
<v Speaker 5>not exactly a friend to the Jews. In the late

0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:16.760
<v Speaker 5>nineteenth century, Pagram's targeting Jews in the Pale of Settlement

0:38:17.080 --> 0:38:20.400
<v Speaker 5>had led to waves of Jewish flight westward to England

0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:24.040
<v Speaker 5>and the United States. Little insert here that the Pale

0:38:24.080 --> 0:38:27.040
<v Speaker 5>of Settlement was a western region of the Russian Empire

0:38:27.280 --> 0:38:30.319
<v Speaker 5>with varying borders that existed from seventeen ninety one to

0:38:30.440 --> 0:38:34.440
<v Speaker 5>nineteen seventeen, in which permanent residency by Jews was allowed,

0:38:34.760 --> 0:38:39.360
<v Speaker 5>and beyond which Jewish residency permanent or temporary was mostly forbidden.

0:38:39.760 --> 0:38:43.160
<v Speaker 5>So created by imperial decree. The Jewish pale of Settlement

0:38:43.400 --> 0:38:46.400
<v Speaker 5>was that part of the Russian Empire within which Russia's

0:38:46.440 --> 0:38:49.520
<v Speaker 5>Jewish population was required to live and work for more

0:38:49.520 --> 0:38:52.200
<v Speaker 5>than one hundred thirty years between the late eighteenth and

0:38:52.239 --> 0:38:56.080
<v Speaker 5>the early twentieth century. Although it was initially intended to

0:38:56.120 --> 0:38:59.640
<v Speaker 5>forestall commerce between Jews and the general population of Russia,

0:39:00.040 --> 0:39:03.719
<v Speaker 5>the restrictions imposed by the pale fostered the development of

0:39:03.760 --> 0:39:06.880
<v Speaker 5>a distinctive religious and ethnic culture in an area covering

0:39:07.200 --> 0:39:11.000
<v Speaker 5>roughly three hundred eighty six thousand square miles or one

0:39:11.040 --> 0:39:15.360
<v Speaker 5>million square kilometers between the Baltic and Black Seas. The

0:39:15.360 --> 0:39:18.200
<v Speaker 5>word pale as used in this sense, comes from the

0:39:18.239 --> 0:39:21.680
<v Speaker 5>Latin polus or stake, one that might be used to

0:39:21.800 --> 0:39:26.280
<v Speaker 5>indicate a boundary. A pale is thus a district separated

0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:30.480
<v Speaker 5>from the surrounding country. It may be defined by physical boundaries,

0:39:30.600 --> 0:39:33.400
<v Speaker 5>or it may be distinguished by a different administrative or

0:39:33.480 --> 0:39:37.040
<v Speaker 5>legal system. The Jewish pale off Settlement was both a

0:39:37.080 --> 0:39:40.560
<v Speaker 5>defined area within the Russian Empire and a legal entity

0:39:40.920 --> 0:39:43.640
<v Speaker 5>regulated by laws that did not apply to the Russian

0:39:43.640 --> 0:39:46.440
<v Speaker 5>Empire as a whole. So back to the main narrative,

0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:49.480
<v Speaker 5>the targeting of Jews in the pale of settlement led

0:39:49.520 --> 0:39:52.280
<v Speaker 5>to immigration of many Jews to the West, to England

0:39:52.320 --> 0:39:55.880
<v Speaker 5>and the US. This influx of refugees led to an

0:39:55.960 --> 0:40:00.240
<v Speaker 5>increase in British anti immigrant racism and outright anti Semitism,

0:40:00.560 --> 0:40:04.960
<v Speaker 5>themes not unfamiliar to US today. Support for political action

0:40:05.080 --> 0:40:08.960
<v Speaker 5>against immigrants grew as the English public demanded immigration control

0:40:09.160 --> 0:40:12.880
<v Speaker 5>to keep certain immigrants, particularly Jews, out of the country.

0:40:13.840 --> 0:40:18.000
<v Speaker 5>So this scared and xenophobic public found a sympathetic ear

0:40:18.080 --> 0:40:21.760
<v Speaker 5>in Balfour. In nineteen oh five, while serving as Prime Minister,

0:40:22.320 --> 0:40:26.040
<v Speaker 5>Balfour presided over the passage of the Aliens Act. This

0:40:26.200 --> 0:40:30.480
<v Speaker 5>legislation put the first restrictions on immigration into Great Britain,

0:40:30.760 --> 0:40:34.880
<v Speaker 5>and it was primarily aimed at restricting Jewish immigration. According

0:40:34.880 --> 0:40:38.920
<v Speaker 5>to historians, Balfour had personally delivered passionate speeches about the

0:40:38.960 --> 0:40:42.600
<v Speaker 5>imperative to restrict the waves of Jews fleeing the Russian

0:40:42.640 --> 0:40:47.160
<v Speaker 5>Empire from entering Britain. So maybe it's not as astonishing

0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:50.000
<v Speaker 5>as you would think that Balfour, whose support of the

0:40:50.120 --> 0:40:53.640
<v Speaker 5>Zionist cause has made him a hero among Zionists, would

0:40:53.680 --> 0:40:57.680
<v Speaker 5>have implemented anti Jewish laws. But the truth is his

0:40:57.760 --> 0:41:01.000
<v Speaker 5>support of Zionism stemmed from the exis exact same source

0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:05.360
<v Speaker 5>as his desire to limit Jewish immigration to Britain. Both

0:41:05.400 --> 0:41:07.440
<v Speaker 5>of these things can be traced back to his white

0:41:07.480 --> 0:41:11.799
<v Speaker 5>supremacist beliefs. Balfour lived in an area of stirring nationalism

0:41:12.040 --> 0:41:17.200
<v Speaker 5>highly defined by ethno religious identity. Because of these sentiments.

0:41:17.320 --> 0:41:20.760
<v Speaker 5>The early twentieth century was a time when seemingly liberal

0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:25.200
<v Speaker 5>Western nations struggled with the challenge of incorporating Jewish citizens.

0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:28.800
<v Speaker 5>Balfour wanted to keep the UK as a white Christian

0:41:28.840 --> 0:41:32.680
<v Speaker 5>ethno state. What the Zionists provided Balfour with was a

0:41:32.719 --> 0:41:36.720
<v Speaker 5>solution to the challenges Jewish citizens posed to his ethno

0:41:36.840 --> 0:41:40.160
<v Speaker 5>nationalist vision, a solution that didn't force him to reckon

0:41:40.200 --> 0:41:44.640
<v Speaker 5>with them. Instead of insisting that societies except all citizens

0:41:44.640 --> 0:41:48.960
<v Speaker 5>as equals, regardless of racial or religious background, the Zionist's

0:41:49.000 --> 0:41:54.360
<v Speaker 5>movement offered a different answer, separation. Balfour saw in Zionism

0:41:54.520 --> 0:41:57.080
<v Speaker 5>not just a blessing for Jews, but for the West

0:41:57.120 --> 0:42:00.880
<v Speaker 5>as well. In nineteen nineteen, he wrote the introduction to

0:42:01.000 --> 0:42:06.000
<v Speaker 5>Nahem Sokolo's History of Zionism. In this introduction, Balfour wrote

0:42:06.040 --> 0:42:09.479
<v Speaker 5>that the Zionist movement would quote mitigate the age long

0:42:09.560 --> 0:42:13.200
<v Speaker 5>miseries created for Western civilization by the presence in its

0:42:13.280 --> 0:42:16.279
<v Speaker 5>midst of a body which it too long regarded as

0:42:16.360 --> 0:42:20.239
<v Speaker 5>alien and even hostile, but which it was equally unable

0:42:20.360 --> 0:42:24.600
<v Speaker 5>to expel or to absorb. By both giving Jews a

0:42:24.640 --> 0:42:28.440
<v Speaker 5>place to go and a place to leave, Zionism seemingly

0:42:28.480 --> 0:42:33.080
<v Speaker 5>solved two problems at once in Balfour's mind. In other words,

0:42:33.120 --> 0:42:36.440
<v Speaker 5>his support of Zionism was motivated by his desire to

0:42:36.480 --> 0:42:39.920
<v Speaker 5>protect Britain from the negative effects or the miseries, as

0:42:39.920 --> 0:42:44.120
<v Speaker 5>he said, of having Jews in its population. Rather than

0:42:44.200 --> 0:42:47.279
<v Speaker 5>protecting the rights of one of its minorities, Britain could

0:42:47.280 --> 0:42:52.200
<v Speaker 5>simply export them, or at least not import anymore. This

0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:56.360
<v Speaker 5>is one of the many reasons Zionism itself is anti Semitic.

0:42:56.920 --> 0:42:59.160
<v Speaker 5>We can even fast forward to now and see how

0:42:59.239 --> 0:43:02.200
<v Speaker 5>Zionists are telling telling anti Zionist Jewish people that they're

0:43:02.239 --> 0:43:06.800
<v Speaker 5>no longer Jewish for supporting Palestine. That belief and statement

0:43:06.960 --> 0:43:11.680
<v Speaker 5>in itself is extremely anti Semitic. Criticizing Israel on the

0:43:11.719 --> 0:43:15.160
<v Speaker 5>Israeli government, however, is not but putting that aside. We

0:43:15.239 --> 0:43:18.120
<v Speaker 5>can see that from the very beginning, even in its origin,

0:43:18.560 --> 0:43:22.520
<v Speaker 5>Zionists associated and allied themselves with the worst kinds of people,

0:43:23.160 --> 0:43:25.960
<v Speaker 5>like people who believed that Jewish people are quote an

0:43:26.000 --> 0:43:30.799
<v Speaker 5>alien and hostile body among them. Needless to say, Balfour's

0:43:30.880 --> 0:43:33.480
<v Speaker 5>view of Zionism is steeped in the same kind of

0:43:33.480 --> 0:43:37.640
<v Speaker 5>white supremacy as Balfour's view of South Africa's blacks, But

0:43:37.719 --> 0:43:41.880
<v Speaker 5>his support of the Zionist dream had another problem. Rather

0:43:41.960 --> 0:43:44.520
<v Speaker 5>than solving the problem of how to handle a minority

0:43:44.560 --> 0:43:48.239
<v Speaker 5>living in a white majority country, the Balfour Declaration just

0:43:48.360 --> 0:43:52.760
<v Speaker 5>shifted the same problem into a different geography. The tension

0:43:52.760 --> 0:43:57.480
<v Speaker 5>between ethno nationalism and equality is definitely and equally present

0:43:57.520 --> 0:44:00.480
<v Speaker 5>today between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean, and see

0:44:00.680 --> 0:44:03.520
<v Speaker 5>where the Israeli state rules over the fate of millions

0:44:03.520 --> 0:44:06.560
<v Speaker 5>of Palestinians who either have no right to vote, are

0:44:06.600 --> 0:44:10.640
<v Speaker 5>treated as second class citizens, or our refugees denied repatriation.

0:44:11.560 --> 0:44:15.800
<v Speaker 5>Today it is Israel that views Palestinians as demographic threats

0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:18.640
<v Speaker 5>and sees the quote presence in its midst of a

0:44:18.640 --> 0:44:21.960
<v Speaker 5>body which is too long regarded as alien and even hostile,

0:44:22.320 --> 0:44:25.239
<v Speaker 5>by which it was equally unable to expel or to

0:44:25.360 --> 0:44:29.319
<v Speaker 5>absorb let's take our second break here again because I

0:44:29.360 --> 0:44:34.120
<v Speaker 5>have to so see you later and we are back.

0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:39.120
<v Speaker 5>So that Balfour's legacy of supremacy persists as much as

0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:43.000
<v Speaker 5>British support for Israel does is no accident. We have

0:44:43.200 --> 0:44:47.239
<v Speaker 5>arrived at this point today because the white supremacist attitudes

0:44:47.239 --> 0:44:52.000
<v Speaker 5>of Balfour informed policy lending imperial right to a project

0:44:52.040 --> 0:44:55.680
<v Speaker 5>in pursuit of national self determination for Jews by trampling

0:44:55.719 --> 0:45:00.400
<v Speaker 5>on the rights of native non Jews. Remarkably, by Telfour

0:45:00.520 --> 0:45:04.080
<v Speaker 5>was unabashedly aware of the hypocrisy in his stance. In

0:45:04.200 --> 0:45:07.160
<v Speaker 5>nineteen nineteen, he wrote a letter that said this to

0:45:07.200 --> 0:45:10.560
<v Speaker 5>the British Prime Minister. The weak point of our position,

0:45:10.640 --> 0:45:13.360
<v Speaker 5>of course, is that in the case of Palestine, we

0:45:13.440 --> 0:45:17.680
<v Speaker 5>deliberately and rightly declined to accept the principle of self determination.

0:45:18.760 --> 0:45:21.520
<v Speaker 5>We do not propose even to go through the form

0:45:21.560 --> 0:45:24.720
<v Speaker 5>of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country,

0:45:25.080 --> 0:45:28.800
<v Speaker 5>the seven hundred thousand Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land.

0:45:29.440 --> 0:45:32.160
<v Speaker 5>Those are his words and a letter that he wrote

0:45:32.480 --> 0:45:36.000
<v Speaker 5>to the British Prime Minister. So there's no misconstruing that

0:45:36.120 --> 0:45:40.719
<v Speaker 5>there those seven hundred thousand Arabs, of course, made up

0:45:40.760 --> 0:45:46.160
<v Speaker 5>approximately ninety percent of the population of Palestine. Again bears

0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:49.879
<v Speaker 5>repeating that Jewish people, before this declaration was implemented, made

0:45:49.960 --> 0:45:54.200
<v Speaker 5>up only six percent of the population, and therein lies

0:45:54.239 --> 0:45:57.560
<v Speaker 5>the fundamental problem that continues through this day, more than

0:45:57.560 --> 0:46:01.120
<v Speaker 5>one hundred years later. Palestinians are denied the right to

0:46:01.239 --> 0:46:04.800
<v Speaker 5>have rights because from the outset their views, their human

0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:09.040
<v Speaker 5>rights and by extension, their very humanity, were consistently seen

0:46:09.160 --> 0:46:12.960
<v Speaker 5>as inferior to those of others. That was clear in

0:46:13.000 --> 0:46:17.400
<v Speaker 5>Balfour's perspective and the British Mandate's policy, and it persists

0:46:17.440 --> 0:46:20.240
<v Speaker 5>in one form or another in many, if not most,

0:46:20.280 --> 0:46:23.359
<v Speaker 5>of the policies of the Zionist State of Israel through

0:46:23.440 --> 0:46:27.360
<v Speaker 5>this day. In modern times, as much as in nineteen seventeen,

0:46:27.760 --> 0:46:31.840
<v Speaker 5>the battle between ethno nationalism and equality has risen to

0:46:31.880 --> 0:46:34.719
<v Speaker 5>the foreground. We saw this in Donald Trump's rise in

0:46:34.800 --> 0:46:39.800
<v Speaker 5>America and in Theresa Mays brexited Britain. Rather than resolving

0:46:39.840 --> 0:46:44.719
<v Speaker 5>this tension, Balfour's support for Zionism merely exported it to Palestine,

0:46:45.440 --> 0:46:49.960
<v Speaker 5>and resisting the legacy of Balfour's racism is absolutely necessary.

0:46:50.040 --> 0:46:53.720
<v Speaker 5>If there is ever to be peace in Palestine and beyond.

0:46:54.520 --> 0:46:57.239
<v Speaker 5>A little bit more history here about why this declaration

0:46:57.400 --> 0:47:00.719
<v Speaker 5>was issued. The question of why has been subject of

0:47:01.040 --> 0:47:05.560
<v Speaker 5>debate for historians for decades, with historians using different sources

0:47:05.640 --> 0:47:09.480
<v Speaker 5>to suggest various explanations. Some argue that many in the

0:47:09.480 --> 0:47:13.520
<v Speaker 5>British government at the time were Zionists themselves. Others say

0:47:13.600 --> 0:47:16.520
<v Speaker 5>the declaration was issued out of an anti Semitic reasoning

0:47:16.840 --> 0:47:19.320
<v Speaker 5>that giving Palestine to the Jews would be a solution

0:47:19.680 --> 0:47:25.200
<v Speaker 5>to the quote unquote Jewish problem. In mainstream academia, however,

0:47:25.560 --> 0:47:27.600
<v Speaker 5>there are a set of reasons over which there is

0:47:27.640 --> 0:47:32.440
<v Speaker 5>a general consensus. One, control over Palestine was a strategic

0:47:32.480 --> 0:47:35.839
<v Speaker 5>imperial interest to keep Egypt and the Suez Canal within

0:47:35.880 --> 0:47:40.040
<v Speaker 5>Britain's sphere of influence. Two, Britain had to side with

0:47:40.200 --> 0:47:43.319
<v Speaker 5>Zionists to rally support among the Jews in the United

0:47:43.360 --> 0:47:46.400
<v Speaker 5>States and Russia, hoping they could encourage their governments to

0:47:46.440 --> 0:47:50.440
<v Speaker 5>stay in the war until victory. Three, there was intense

0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:54.160
<v Speaker 5>Zionist lobbying and strong connections between the Zionist community in

0:47:54.200 --> 0:47:57.040
<v Speaker 5>Britain and the British government, as well as some of

0:47:57.040 --> 0:48:01.440
<v Speaker 5>the officials in the government being Zionists themselves, for Jews

0:48:01.440 --> 0:48:04.040
<v Speaker 5>were being persecuted in Europe and the British government was

0:48:04.080 --> 0:48:07.799
<v Speaker 5>sympathetic to their suffering. I think that last point is

0:48:07.920 --> 0:48:11.160
<v Speaker 5>usually used as a validation to why Israel exists today,

0:48:11.880 --> 0:48:16.680
<v Speaker 5>but feeling sorry for a people and giving them someone

0:48:16.680 --> 0:48:19.840
<v Speaker 5>else's land is really not a solution in my opinion.

0:48:20.800 --> 0:48:23.959
<v Speaker 5>Of course, the Balfour Declaration was also not received well

0:48:24.000 --> 0:48:28.440
<v Speaker 5>by Palestinians and Arabs. In nineteen nineteen, then US President

0:48:28.520 --> 0:48:32.080
<v Speaker 5>Woodrow Wilson appointed a commission to look into public opinion

0:48:32.120 --> 0:48:36.279
<v Speaker 5>on the mandatory system in Syria and Palestine. The investigation

0:48:36.440 --> 0:48:39.799
<v Speaker 5>was known as the King Krane Commission. It found that

0:48:39.840 --> 0:48:43.719
<v Speaker 5>the majority of Palestinians expressed a strong opposition to Zionism,

0:48:44.200 --> 0:48:47.480
<v Speaker 5>leading the conductors of the commission to advise a modification

0:48:47.640 --> 0:48:51.200
<v Speaker 5>of the mandate's goal. The late Anni Ebba Adhadi, a

0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:55.280
<v Speaker 5>Palestinian political figure, condemned the Balfour Declaration in his memoirs,

0:48:55.640 --> 0:48:58.439
<v Speaker 5>saying it was made by an English foreigner who had

0:48:58.480 --> 0:49:01.759
<v Speaker 5>no claim to Palestine, to a foreign Jew who had

0:49:01.800 --> 0:49:05.719
<v Speaker 5>no right to it. However, it's very important to mention

0:49:05.840 --> 0:49:09.439
<v Speaker 5>here that the other vital important source for insight into

0:49:09.520 --> 0:49:12.520
<v Speaker 5>Palestine opinion on the declaration at the time. AKA the

0:49:12.600 --> 0:49:15.560
<v Speaker 5>press was closed down by the Ottomans at the start

0:49:15.560 --> 0:49:18.040
<v Speaker 5>of the war in nineteen fourteen and only began to

0:49:18.040 --> 0:49:21.480
<v Speaker 5>reappear in nineteen nineteen, but it was under British military

0:49:21.520 --> 0:49:26.520
<v Speaker 5>censorship in November nineteen nineteen when the Alisti La Da Laivi,

0:49:27.040 --> 0:49:31.080
<v Speaker 5>the Arab independence newspaper based in Damascus, was reopened. One

0:49:31.200 --> 0:49:34.239
<v Speaker 5>article had a response to a public speech given by

0:49:34.239 --> 0:49:37.719
<v Speaker 5>Herbert Samuel, a Jewish Cabinet minister in London, on the

0:49:37.760 --> 0:49:41.880
<v Speaker 5>second anniversary of the Balfour Declaration. The article said quote

0:49:42.640 --> 0:49:46.359
<v Speaker 5>our country is Arab, Palestine is Arab, and Palestine must

0:49:46.360 --> 0:49:51.000
<v Speaker 5>remain Arab. In nineteen twenty, the Third Palestine Congress and

0:49:51.080 --> 0:49:54.560
<v Speaker 5>Haifa decried the British government's plans to support the Zionist

0:49:54.640 --> 0:49:58.400
<v Speaker 5>project and rejected the declaration as a violation of international

0:49:58.520 --> 0:50:02.480
<v Speaker 5>law and the rights of the indigenous population. I'm gonna

0:50:02.480 --> 0:50:06.080
<v Speaker 5>pull audio from Sim's video here again. They kind of

0:50:06.080 --> 0:50:08.560
<v Speaker 5>summarize in a really good way what happened in the

0:50:08.640 --> 0:50:10.240
<v Speaker 5>years leading up to the Nukaba.

0:50:10.520 --> 0:50:14.680
<v Speaker 6>So here is Sim and even still until nineteen thirty six,

0:50:14.760 --> 0:50:21.360
<v Speaker 6>Palestinians are trying to peacefully, legalistically resist decolonization, which, unfortunately

0:50:21.520 --> 0:50:26.480
<v Speaker 6>history teaches us doesn't work that great usually. However, inspired

0:50:26.520 --> 0:50:29.600
<v Speaker 6>by the examples of Iraq and Syria, which had managed

0:50:29.640 --> 0:50:34.240
<v Speaker 6>to overthrow their colonizers starting with a general strike, Palestinians

0:50:34.360 --> 0:50:38.200
<v Speaker 6>organize a strike in nineteen thirty six. Again, this starts

0:50:38.200 --> 0:50:40.760
<v Speaker 6>out as just a peaceful strike, but it is brutally

0:50:40.800 --> 0:50:42.719
<v Speaker 6>repressed by the British overlords.

0:50:42.719 --> 0:50:43.520
<v Speaker 7>We're like, no, you're not.

0:50:43.480 --> 0:50:47.480
<v Speaker 6>Allowed to strike. You are our captive wage slavery labor

0:50:47.520 --> 0:50:47.799
<v Speaker 6>for us.

0:50:47.880 --> 0:50:49.120
<v Speaker 7>You have to go do your work.

0:50:49.719 --> 0:50:53.960
<v Speaker 6>Khaleedi shows how Britain was also very strategically sowing internal

0:50:54.000 --> 0:50:57.920
<v Speaker 6>divisions within the Palestinian leadership, turning people certain to their

0:50:58.000 --> 0:51:01.120
<v Speaker 6>side by bribing them to work again one another. And

0:51:01.160 --> 0:51:03.520
<v Speaker 6>so the strike fell apart in nineteen thirty six. But

0:51:03.560 --> 0:51:05.840
<v Speaker 6>then only then in nineteen thirty seven.

0:51:05.680 --> 0:51:07.360
<v Speaker 7>Did an armed revolt breakout.

0:51:07.960 --> 0:51:10.560
<v Speaker 6>Much is made by Zionists about this Arab revolt and

0:51:10.600 --> 0:51:13.480
<v Speaker 6>how this was justification for the Knukba, which would ultimately

0:51:13.600 --> 0:51:17.879
<v Speaker 6>kill fifteen thousand Palestinians and displace hundreds of thousands more.

0:51:18.320 --> 0:51:20.960
<v Speaker 6>But this was no religious massacre, and that's reflected in

0:51:21.000 --> 0:51:24.120
<v Speaker 6>the casualties. Yes, several hundred Jews died during the revolt,

0:51:24.160 --> 0:51:27.240
<v Speaker 6>but it took one hundred thousand British troops to suppress

0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:29.800
<v Speaker 6>the revolt, and the fighting was mostly between the Arabs

0:51:29.840 --> 0:51:32.920
<v Speaker 6>and the British. And it's estimated that between fourteen and

0:51:33.000 --> 0:51:36.520
<v Speaker 6>seventeen percent of the adult male Arab population was killed.

0:51:36.320 --> 0:51:37.960
<v Speaker 7>Wounded, imprisoned, or exiled.

0:51:38.160 --> 0:51:41.319
<v Speaker 6>So the population of Palestinians was absolutely devastated by this

0:51:41.400 --> 0:51:43.759
<v Speaker 6>revolt by the end of it. What struck me a

0:51:43.760 --> 0:51:46.000
<v Speaker 6>lot reading the conclusion of this chapter was, you know,

0:51:46.040 --> 0:51:49.560
<v Speaker 6>the Western media, which is so Islamophobic, portrays Palestinians as

0:51:49.600 --> 0:51:52.799
<v Speaker 6>like inherently violent and bloodthirsty and anti Semitic, but that

0:51:52.880 --> 0:51:55.239
<v Speaker 6>just isn't reflected in this history at all. In fact,

0:51:55.320 --> 0:51:58.080
<v Speaker 6>as Khaldi mentioned, several scholars argue that, you know, the

0:51:58.120 --> 0:52:01.440
<v Speaker 6>Palestinians really should have organized an armed revolt earlier. It

0:52:01.520 --> 0:52:03.319
<v Speaker 6>was too late by the time they did, but they

0:52:03.360 --> 0:52:07.440
<v Speaker 6>had spent fifteen years since the Balfour Declaration trying peacefully

0:52:07.440 --> 0:52:10.800
<v Speaker 6>and legalistically to earn their rights, and that was ultimately

0:52:10.840 --> 0:52:14.359
<v Speaker 6>a dead end. But Palestinians really clearly did not want

0:52:14.400 --> 0:52:16.759
<v Speaker 6>to fight a war. It wasn't until they'd exhausted every

0:52:16.840 --> 0:52:19.960
<v Speaker 6>single other option to them. They tried legal routes, they

0:52:20.040 --> 0:52:23.160
<v Speaker 6>tried organizing, they tried a strike. You know, they had

0:52:23.200 --> 0:52:26.640
<v Speaker 6>done everything they could. And this was a population that

0:52:26.680 --> 0:52:29.200
<v Speaker 6>had been stripped of huge amounts of its land, that

0:52:29.280 --> 0:52:31.920
<v Speaker 6>was destitute, that was impoverished, that was starving, that was

0:52:31.960 --> 0:52:35.839
<v Speaker 6>shut out from any economic opportunity in the land they

0:52:35.920 --> 0:52:39.879
<v Speaker 6>had lived on for millennia. They were farmers. They didn't

0:52:39.920 --> 0:52:42.560
<v Speaker 6>want to wage a war. They wanted to make olive oil.

0:52:43.200 --> 0:52:46.839
<v Speaker 6>But because this guy didn't want Jews moving to the UK,

0:52:48.000 --> 0:52:49.960
<v Speaker 6>they didn't get to have their country anymore.

0:52:50.560 --> 0:52:53.600
<v Speaker 5>Even prior to the Balfour Declaration in the British Mandate,

0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:57.720
<v Speaker 5>Pan Arab newspapers warned against the motives of the Zionist

0:52:57.800 --> 0:53:02.120
<v Speaker 5>movement and its potential outcomes displacing Palestinians from their land.

0:53:03.000 --> 0:53:08.040
<v Speaker 5>Khalil Sakakini, a jerusalemit writer and teacher, described Palestine in

0:53:08.120 --> 0:53:11.879
<v Speaker 5>the immediate aftermath of the war as follows. A nation

0:53:12.200 --> 0:53:15.040
<v Speaker 5>which has long been in the depths of sleep, only

0:53:15.120 --> 0:53:18.800
<v Speaker 5>wakes if it is rudely shaken by events, only arises

0:53:18.840 --> 0:53:22.959
<v Speaker 5>little by little. This was the situation of Palestine, which

0:53:22.960 --> 0:53:26.000
<v Speaker 5>for many centuries has been in the deepest sleep until

0:53:26.040 --> 0:53:28.759
<v Speaker 5>it was shaken by the Great War, shocked by the

0:53:28.880 --> 0:53:32.960
<v Speaker 5>Zionist movement and violated by the illegal policy of the British,

0:53:33.400 --> 0:53:38.240
<v Speaker 5>and awoke little by little. And while Britain is generally

0:53:38.320 --> 0:53:41.960
<v Speaker 5>and understandably held responsible for the Balfour Declaration, it is

0:53:42.000 --> 0:53:44.239
<v Speaker 5>important to note that the statement would not have been

0:53:44.280 --> 0:53:47.880
<v Speaker 5>made without prior approval from the other Allied powers. During

0:53:47.920 --> 0:53:51.400
<v Speaker 5>World War One, in a war cabinet meeting on September

0:53:51.520 --> 0:53:55.360
<v Speaker 5>nineteen seventeen, British ministers decided that the quote views of

0:53:55.400 --> 0:53:58.960
<v Speaker 5>President Wilson should be obtained before any declaration was made,

0:54:00.080 --> 0:54:03.480
<v Speaker 5>and indeed, according to the Cabinet's minutes on October fourth,

0:54:03.520 --> 0:54:07.840
<v Speaker 5>the ministers recalled Arthur Balfour, confirming that Wilson was quote

0:54:08.000 --> 0:54:12.560
<v Speaker 5>extremely favorable to the movement. France, surprise, surprise, maybe to

0:54:12.600 --> 0:54:16.360
<v Speaker 5>no one, was also involved and announced its support prior

0:54:16.400 --> 0:54:20.200
<v Speaker 5>to the issuing of the Balfour Declaration. A May nineteen

0:54:20.280 --> 0:54:25.360
<v Speaker 5>seventeen letter from Jules Cambon, a French diplomat, to Nahem Sokolo,

0:54:25.719 --> 0:54:30.080
<v Speaker 5>the Polish Zionist, expressed the sympathetic views of the French

0:54:30.120 --> 0:54:35.840
<v Speaker 5>government towards a quote Jewish colonization in Palestine. This letter,

0:54:36.040 --> 0:54:40.400
<v Speaker 5>again the precursor to the Balfour Declaration, says it would

0:54:40.400 --> 0:54:43.840
<v Speaker 5>be a deed of justice and of reparation to assist,

0:54:44.000 --> 0:54:47.440
<v Speaker 5>by the protection of the Allied powers in the renaissance

0:54:47.520 --> 0:54:50.680
<v Speaker 5>of the Jewish nationality in that land from which the

0:54:50.719 --> 0:54:54.840
<v Speaker 5>people of Israel were exiled so many centuries ago. The

0:54:54.880 --> 0:54:59.000
<v Speaker 5>Balfour Declaration again is widely seen as the precursor to

0:54:59.040 --> 0:55:03.200
<v Speaker 5>the nineteen forty eight Palestinian Nekba, when Zionist armed groups

0:55:03.400 --> 0:55:06.799
<v Speaker 5>who were trained by the British forcibly expelled more than

0:55:06.840 --> 0:55:10.480
<v Speaker 5>seven hundred and fifty thousand Palestinians from their homeland, and

0:55:10.560 --> 0:55:16.239
<v Speaker 5>they massacred fifteen thousand Palestinians. Despite some opposition within the

0:55:16.239 --> 0:55:20.040
<v Speaker 5>war cabinet predicting such an outcome was probable, the British

0:55:20.040 --> 0:55:23.440
<v Speaker 5>government still chose to issue the declaration, and there is

0:55:23.520 --> 0:55:26.040
<v Speaker 5>no doubt that the British mandate created the conditions for

0:55:26.120 --> 0:55:29.959
<v Speaker 5>the Jewish minority to gain superiority in Palestine and build

0:55:29.960 --> 0:55:33.240
<v Speaker 5>a state for themselves at the expense of the Palestinian Arabs.

0:55:34.120 --> 0:55:36.920
<v Speaker 5>When the British decided to terminate their mandate in nineteen

0:55:36.960 --> 0:55:40.360
<v Speaker 5>forty seven and transfer the question of Palestine to the

0:55:40.480 --> 0:55:44.040
<v Speaker 5>United Nations. The Jews already had an army that was

0:55:44.160 --> 0:55:48.040
<v Speaker 5>formed out of the armed paramilitary groups trained and created

0:55:48.239 --> 0:55:50.879
<v Speaker 5>to fight side by side with the British in World

0:55:50.960 --> 0:55:54.880
<v Speaker 5>War II. More importantly, the British allowed the Jews to

0:55:55.040 --> 0:55:59.680
<v Speaker 5>establish self governing institutions such as the Jewish Agency, to

0:55:59.719 --> 0:56:02.359
<v Speaker 5>prepare themselves for a state when it came to it,

0:56:02.640 --> 0:56:06.400
<v Speaker 5>while the Palestinians were forbidden from doing so, paving the

0:56:06.400 --> 0:56:11.440
<v Speaker 5>way for the nineteen forty eight ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

0:56:11.520 --> 0:56:13.640
<v Speaker 5>We're going to end the episode with one more audio

0:56:13.680 --> 0:56:16.960
<v Speaker 5>clip from Sim's video. I just think it really describes

0:56:17.440 --> 0:56:22.000
<v Speaker 5>and summarizes why exactly Arthur Balfour is an extremely evil person.

0:56:22.560 --> 0:56:26.240
<v Speaker 6>So here is Sim and the violence that has sprung

0:56:26.280 --> 0:56:28.560
<v Speaker 6>from the creation of Israel goes so much further beyond

0:56:28.560 --> 0:56:30.560
<v Speaker 6>its borders. I mean, the whole history of the Middle

0:56:30.600 --> 0:56:33.560
<v Speaker 6>East and a Western imperial conquest in the Middle East

0:56:33.640 --> 0:56:37.000
<v Speaker 6>hinges on Israel being there, all of US imperialism, the

0:56:37.000 --> 0:56:39.120
<v Speaker 6>wars in Iraq and in Afghanistan, I mean, all of

0:56:39.120 --> 0:56:41.640
<v Speaker 6>that would have been impossible without the existence of Israel.

0:56:41.960 --> 0:56:45.040
<v Speaker 6>So add Arthur Balfour to your list of the greatest

0:56:45.080 --> 0:56:46.359
<v Speaker 6>war criminals of all time.

0:56:47.120 --> 0:56:50.799
<v Speaker 5>It truly feels silly to be talking about anything else

0:56:50.880 --> 0:56:53.600
<v Speaker 5>at this time. So I do want to mention here

0:56:53.800 --> 0:56:56.640
<v Speaker 5>that at the time of this recording, there are over

0:56:56.719 --> 0:57:01.840
<v Speaker 5>eleven thousand Palestinians who have been by the settler colony

0:57:01.880 --> 0:57:05.480
<v Speaker 5>of Israel in their genocide that is currently happening. Nearly

0:57:05.520 --> 0:57:11.920
<v Speaker 5>five thousand children are gone, have been slaughtered. Every time

0:57:11.960 --> 0:57:13.520
<v Speaker 5>I open my phone, I see the worst thing I've

0:57:13.520 --> 0:57:16.040
<v Speaker 5>ever seen in my life. And there are images that

0:57:16.040 --> 0:57:19.960
<v Speaker 5>we're seeing of. I mean, you've seen them, children under

0:57:19.960 --> 0:57:25.080
<v Speaker 5>the rubble, crying for help, parents losing their babies, and

0:57:25.960 --> 0:57:28.560
<v Speaker 5>it doesn't make sense for me to describe the images.

0:57:28.640 --> 0:57:32.400
<v Speaker 5>But my point is we have never seen a genocide

0:57:32.920 --> 0:57:36.960
<v Speaker 5>take place right before our eyes. All the proof is there.

0:57:38.040 --> 0:57:42.600
<v Speaker 5>Israeli leaders have been very clear in their intention for genocide.

0:57:43.560 --> 0:57:48.560
<v Speaker 5>Just for example, Israeli Cabinet member Avidijkter. I don't care

0:57:48.600 --> 0:57:51.040
<v Speaker 5>if I said his name wrong, but he said that

0:57:51.120 --> 0:57:55.720
<v Speaker 5>they are rolling out Nekba twenty twenty three. That's one

0:57:55.800 --> 0:58:00.480
<v Speaker 5>example of extremely genocidal language as being used by not

0:58:00.520 --> 0:58:04.200
<v Speaker 5>just Israel but also American politicians as well. There are

0:58:04.240 --> 0:58:07.480
<v Speaker 5>photos side by side of the nineteen forty eight Nekba

0:58:07.600 --> 0:58:11.640
<v Speaker 5>to what's happening right now. It's happening again. The mass

0:58:11.680 --> 0:58:16.240
<v Speaker 5>expulsion of Palestinians is happening right before our eyes. There

0:58:16.240 --> 0:58:19.120
<v Speaker 5>are Palestinians who have experienced the Nekaba in nineteen forty

0:58:19.120 --> 0:58:24.200
<v Speaker 5>eight who are experiencing it again, being displaced so many

0:58:24.280 --> 0:58:28.600
<v Speaker 5>times in their own country, and right now over a

0:58:28.680 --> 0:58:33.480
<v Speaker 5>million Palestinians have been displaced. We are also just being

0:58:33.600 --> 0:58:37.880
<v Speaker 5>inundated with the most bizarre propaganda from the IOF. I've

0:58:37.920 --> 0:58:40.360
<v Speaker 5>decided to call them the IOF from now on instead

0:58:40.400 --> 0:58:43.360
<v Speaker 5>of the IDF because they are not defending anything. They

0:58:43.400 --> 0:58:47.200
<v Speaker 5>are the Israeli offensive forces, not defensive. So just a

0:58:47.240 --> 0:58:52.120
<v Speaker 5>disclaimer there over my choice of words. But it's strange

0:58:52.600 --> 0:58:56.959
<v Speaker 5>they post photos of Arabic text saying it's something else.

0:58:57.200 --> 0:58:59.400
<v Speaker 5>Just recently I saw that they posted a calendar that

0:58:59.440 --> 0:59:02.680
<v Speaker 5>they found in a house that they say are a

0:59:02.760 --> 0:59:07.080
<v Speaker 5>list of Hamas hostages. It's literally just a calendar with

0:59:07.240 --> 0:59:11.320
<v Speaker 5>the words of the week written in Arabic. And that

0:59:11.400 --> 0:59:14.840
<v Speaker 5>is just one example of many. And I feel like

0:59:14.880 --> 0:59:17.600
<v Speaker 5>if I keep talking about this that will never stop.

0:59:17.880 --> 0:59:20.760
<v Speaker 5>But my point in bringing us back to modern times

0:59:21.040 --> 0:59:25.240
<v Speaker 5>is that this all started with a decision made by

0:59:25.320 --> 0:59:29.520
<v Speaker 5>men who had no business making a decision. Arthur Balfour

0:59:29.680 --> 0:59:33.680
<v Speaker 5>had no fucking business handing over a piece of land

0:59:33.920 --> 0:59:36.560
<v Speaker 5>that had nothing to do with him. It was never

0:59:36.640 --> 0:59:40.920
<v Speaker 5>his place. And what galaxy does that make sense to anybody?

0:59:41.800 --> 0:59:47.400
<v Speaker 5>Zionism and Jewishness and Judaism are not equivalent, and I

0:59:47.480 --> 0:59:50.720
<v Speaker 5>hope at this point in time people are realizing that.

0:59:51.200 --> 0:59:54.200
<v Speaker 5>I hope that this episode sheds some light on how

0:59:54.440 --> 0:59:58.200
<v Speaker 5>the roots of Zionism itself are rooted in anti Semitism.

0:59:58.800 --> 1:00:03.400
<v Speaker 5>It's nobody's place to decide to play god and just

1:00:04.280 --> 1:00:07.120
<v Speaker 5>pretend people don't exist in a place that you want.

1:00:07.920 --> 1:00:12.520
<v Speaker 5>It doesn't work like that. That's not human. So I

1:00:12.560 --> 1:00:16.080
<v Speaker 5>think it's important to remember history like this because something

1:00:16.160 --> 1:00:18.840
<v Speaker 5>like this does not happen overnight. It did not happen

1:00:19.040 --> 1:00:22.360
<v Speaker 5>or start on October seventh. This is something that has

1:00:22.400 --> 1:00:26.120
<v Speaker 5>been decades in the making, and it all started with

1:00:26.280 --> 1:00:30.080
<v Speaker 5>one stupid man making a decision with other stupid men

1:00:30.640 --> 1:00:35.040
<v Speaker 5>that have way too much power that resulted in the suffering,

1:00:35.480 --> 1:00:40.640
<v Speaker 5>the continued suffering of an entire people, the dehumanization of

1:00:40.680 --> 1:00:43.560
<v Speaker 5>an entire people, We're seeing it play out right now.

1:00:44.200 --> 1:00:46.200
<v Speaker 5>So I think as you learn about history, as to

1:00:46.240 --> 1:00:48.080
<v Speaker 5>learn about things like this that maybe seem like they

1:00:48.120 --> 1:00:52.400
<v Speaker 5>happen so far away, they really didn't. We are experiencing

1:00:52.440 --> 1:00:56.920
<v Speaker 5>the ripples of those decisions. And that's the episode for today.

1:00:57.800 --> 1:01:01.520
<v Speaker 5>I hope it was informative, and I hope the genocide

1:01:01.560 --> 1:01:05.360
<v Speaker 5>of the Palestinian people comes to an end. So in

1:01:05.400 --> 1:01:33.720
<v Speaker 5>the meantime, Free Palestine, No no dot Com.

1:01:57.880 --> 1:02:00.000
<v Speaker 4>In the week since the end of October, the confie

1:02:00.200 --> 1:02:03.520
<v Speaker 4>landscape in the AMMA has significantly changed. The Hunter and

1:02:03.560 --> 1:02:07.520
<v Speaker 4>its alignment issues have taken unprecedented losses, and the PDF,

1:02:07.560 --> 1:02:10.880
<v Speaker 4>as well as several ethnic revolutionary organizations, have swept across

1:02:10.920 --> 1:02:15.040
<v Speaker 4>the country, seizing bases, weapons, tanks, and even towns and cities.

1:02:15.920 --> 1:02:19.360
<v Speaker 4>As the offensive was ongoing, I spoke to Sire montine

1:02:19.520 --> 1:02:22.360
<v Speaker 4>a leader in the madelid PDF, and Billy Ford of

1:02:22.360 --> 1:02:25.680
<v Speaker 4>the United States Institute for Peace. What follows is my

1:02:25.720 --> 1:02:28.400
<v Speaker 4>conversation with Billy and some insights on a situation on

1:02:28.440 --> 1:02:31.760
<v Speaker 4>the ground with the Madelai PDF. You'll hear more from

1:02:31.800 --> 1:02:34.960
<v Speaker 4>Sire Montiney in another episode that we're working on, but

1:02:35.200 --> 1:02:37.200
<v Speaker 4>I wanted you to hear his personal on the ground

1:02:37.200 --> 1:02:40.840
<v Speaker 4>perspective now as well. First, I let nine nine, the

1:02:40.880 --> 1:02:43.720
<v Speaker 4>translator from Mandel a PDF, introduce our guest.

1:02:44.240 --> 1:02:49.840
<v Speaker 8>Oh yeah, Layes, he is the leader of the Commanding

1:02:49.960 --> 1:02:54.760
<v Speaker 8>and Cohesion team, and you can also say that he

1:02:55.040 --> 1:02:57.320
<v Speaker 8>the leader of our organization.

1:02:57.960 --> 1:03:00.120
<v Speaker 4>To start with, I asked Billy to explain for you

1:03:00.160 --> 1:03:02.600
<v Speaker 4>the developments in the conflict in the last few weeks.

1:03:02.920 --> 1:03:05.520
<v Speaker 9>I mean, it's really been just the past what is

1:03:05.560 --> 1:03:09.760
<v Speaker 9>it since the twenty seventh, so thirteen days kind of

1:03:09.960 --> 1:03:14.280
<v Speaker 9>a level change in the conflict trajectory, Whereas I'd say,

1:03:14.360 --> 1:03:17.000
<v Speaker 9>I mean, you got coup February first, twenty twenty one,

1:03:17.280 --> 1:03:21.720
<v Speaker 9>major military operate resistance operations began September seventh, twenty twenty one,

1:03:22.120 --> 1:03:26.760
<v Speaker 9>and frankly since then it's been more or less incremental change.

1:03:27.040 --> 1:03:29.960
<v Speaker 9>You can, I wouldn't characterize it as a stalemate as

1:03:30.000 --> 1:03:35.160
<v Speaker 9>many have, but there's there's essentially been, you know, small

1:03:35.520 --> 1:03:39.000
<v Speaker 9>pockets of progress where the resistance is capturing territory, but

1:03:39.160 --> 1:03:44.960
<v Speaker 9>all almost exclusively rural areas of the country. And then

1:03:45.200 --> 1:03:52.080
<v Speaker 9>things changed radically on October twenty seventh, when whereas Before

1:03:52.240 --> 1:03:56.600
<v Speaker 9>the twenty seventh, you had a range of armed stakeholders

1:03:56.640 --> 1:04:00.800
<v Speaker 9>involved in the conflicts, some under the deposed National Unity government,

1:04:01.680 --> 1:04:04.040
<v Speaker 9>as well as what's called the K three C, which

1:04:04.080 --> 1:04:08.400
<v Speaker 9>is four of the biggest ethnic armed organizations. But a lot,

1:04:08.400 --> 1:04:10.880
<v Speaker 9>a lot of the reason why we hadn't seen the

1:04:11.040 --> 1:04:15.040
<v Speaker 9>level change in the military balance of power was because

1:04:15.040 --> 1:04:17.200
<v Speaker 9>of the absence of some of the biggest and most

1:04:17.200 --> 1:04:20.600
<v Speaker 9>powerful armed organizations that had more or less state on

1:04:20.640 --> 1:04:21.240
<v Speaker 9>the sidelines.

1:04:21.280 --> 1:04:22.560
<v Speaker 7>I mean, they were.

1:04:22.520 --> 1:04:27.520
<v Speaker 9>Arming and training resistance forces that were engaged in active combat,

1:04:28.000 --> 1:04:30.640
<v Speaker 9>but they hadn't themselves in a meaningful way.

1:04:31.080 --> 1:04:33.760
<v Speaker 7>But on the twenty seventh that totally changed.

1:04:34.920 --> 1:04:38.240
<v Speaker 9>This alliance called the Brotherhood Alliance that involves three of

1:04:38.280 --> 1:04:43.480
<v Speaker 9>the biggest armed organizations, initiated coordinated attacks in Northern Shan

1:04:43.520 --> 1:04:48.520
<v Speaker 9>State on the border with China, and have since the

1:04:48.560 --> 1:04:49.400
<v Speaker 9>twenty seventh.

1:04:49.880 --> 1:04:50.400
<v Speaker 7>We're talking to.

1:04:50.400 --> 1:04:54.360
<v Speaker 9>You on the tenth here of November, one hundred and

1:04:54.400 --> 1:04:59.000
<v Speaker 9>fifty posts have been taken. Seven towns are now under

1:04:59.440 --> 1:05:03.720
<v Speaker 9>full z distance control, seven others by my counter under

1:05:03.800 --> 1:05:08.880
<v Speaker 9>partial resistance control. And the operation in Northern Shan State

1:05:08.960 --> 1:05:14.760
<v Speaker 9>on the border has effectively spurred resistance operations in other

1:05:14.800 --> 1:05:18.200
<v Speaker 9>parts of the country, and so now you essentially have

1:05:19.000 --> 1:05:24.320
<v Speaker 9>operations in all corners of the country. I mean, you've

1:05:24.320 --> 1:05:28.960
<v Speaker 9>seen PDFs taking towns in sagain along the Indian border.

1:05:29.400 --> 1:05:33.560
<v Speaker 9>You've seen the kN you taking important towns on the

1:05:33.600 --> 1:05:37.840
<v Speaker 9>logistics corridor on the Thai border. Kareni groups have moved

1:05:37.880 --> 1:05:41.880
<v Speaker 9>into Meyse on the Thai border with Kareni State. The

1:05:41.960 --> 1:05:45.840
<v Speaker 9>Chin National Front has initiated attacks in Balatwa and Southern

1:05:46.320 --> 1:05:48.760
<v Speaker 9>Chin State near the Bangladesh India border.

1:05:50.200 --> 1:05:50.400
<v Speaker 10>Yees.

1:05:50.440 --> 1:05:54.200
<v Speaker 9>So it's really just the trajectory of conflict has gone

1:05:54.240 --> 1:05:57.560
<v Speaker 9>from an incremental trajectory where it's like this is a

1:05:57.600 --> 1:06:00.880
<v Speaker 9>slow burn that could last a long time, to a

1:06:01.680 --> 1:06:06.040
<v Speaker 9>we need to start thinking about potentially day after. I mean,

1:06:06.080 --> 1:06:10.240
<v Speaker 9>nothing is a given, and the minamoral military has been

1:06:10.280 --> 1:06:12.560
<v Speaker 9>resilient in the past, but it does feel like this

1:06:12.600 --> 1:06:15.160
<v Speaker 9>is a historic moment in a lot of ways, and

1:06:15.240 --> 1:06:18.800
<v Speaker 9>the military is weakened in a way that we've really

1:06:18.840 --> 1:06:21.200
<v Speaker 9>never seen in the history of the country.

1:06:22.040 --> 1:06:24.760
<v Speaker 4>I asked Montiney to explain a little about how he

1:06:24.840 --> 1:06:28.200
<v Speaker 4>got to a point where his force, who hadn't fought

1:06:28.200 --> 1:06:31.200
<v Speaker 4>it all in twenty twenty one, we're able to fight

1:06:31.200 --> 1:06:34.280
<v Speaker 4>alongside the Eros and deal a serious defeat to the junta.

1:06:34.840 --> 1:06:41.800
<v Speaker 8>So in twenty one March he decided to go for

1:06:42.000 --> 1:06:45.080
<v Speaker 8>the unrevolutions. And then he started reading the books about

1:06:45.120 --> 1:06:49.800
<v Speaker 8>the military and tactics and then warfare things. And then

1:06:49.880 --> 1:06:53.400
<v Speaker 8>he said that he is still learning and reading from

1:06:53.480 --> 1:06:59.680
<v Speaker 8>the books about the military tactics till now. And one

1:06:59.680 --> 1:07:04.360
<v Speaker 8>more thing is we we are having some problems about

1:07:04.560 --> 1:07:09.720
<v Speaker 8>the other reverse Defense Force perdief that they don't have

1:07:09.880 --> 1:07:15.520
<v Speaker 8>the well forming and then they don't follow the code

1:07:15.520 --> 1:07:20.360
<v Speaker 8>of context or something like that. So we organize world

1:07:20.480 --> 1:07:26.840
<v Speaker 8>that we won't become a blood dirsty organization, but just

1:07:26.920 --> 1:07:32.240
<v Speaker 8>to fight for the military pool. And one more thing

1:07:32.400 --> 1:07:36.800
<v Speaker 8>is we are following the two CEOC, which is a

1:07:37.000 --> 1:07:43.680
<v Speaker 8>code of context and then chain of commands before we

1:07:42.640 --> 1:07:47.320
<v Speaker 8>form up as these military organizations.

1:07:47.760 --> 1:07:50.280
<v Speaker 4>A number of the Eros rightconas you won't have heard before,

1:07:50.360 --> 1:07:52.640
<v Speaker 4>and that's because they haven't been part of the conflict before.

1:07:52.920 --> 1:07:55.200
<v Speaker 4>So I asked Billy to explain who the Eros in

1:07:55.240 --> 1:07:58.120
<v Speaker 4>the north were and how and why are they identityfied now?

1:07:58.720 --> 1:08:05.040
<v Speaker 9>Sure, So, the Arakan Army is a Recine ethnic based

1:08:06.000 --> 1:08:10.280
<v Speaker 9>armed organization. They're based on the China border, but for

1:08:10.320 --> 1:08:12.800
<v Speaker 9>those who know MEMMR geography, Rakine State is actually on

1:08:12.840 --> 1:08:15.440
<v Speaker 9>the complete other side of the country. But this like

1:08:15.520 --> 1:08:19.440
<v Speaker 9>many were Like many newer armed organizations, they were essentially

1:08:19.800 --> 1:08:24.519
<v Speaker 9>incubated by some of the longer term armed organizations. In

1:08:24.520 --> 1:08:29.320
<v Speaker 9>this case, the Kachin Independence Army helped for the emergence

1:08:29.400 --> 1:08:33.240
<v Speaker 9>of the Arakan Army, which has really grown in the

1:08:33.280 --> 1:08:38.480
<v Speaker 9>past ten years into one of the strongest armed stakeholders

1:08:38.479 --> 1:08:42.680
<v Speaker 9>in the country. Before the coup, under the on Sansuchil

1:08:42.840 --> 1:08:48.320
<v Speaker 9>National League for Democracy government, they were in intense fighting

1:08:48.400 --> 1:08:53.600
<v Speaker 9>with the MR military and on Sansuchi strongly supported the

1:08:53.640 --> 1:08:56.960
<v Speaker 9>MEMR military's operations against the AA, and that kind of

1:08:57.000 --> 1:08:59.360
<v Speaker 9>built some bad blood, as you might be might imagine,

1:08:59.400 --> 1:09:02.960
<v Speaker 9>between the AA in the National League for Democracy and

1:09:02.960 --> 1:09:05.280
<v Speaker 9>and that bad blood has made it difficult to build

1:09:05.360 --> 1:09:10.800
<v Speaker 9>alliance across ethnic lines and with those resistant organizations that

1:09:10.920 --> 1:09:13.840
<v Speaker 9>involve n l D folks. But the key point here

1:09:13.960 --> 1:09:16.080
<v Speaker 9>is that the AA is operating in two places were

1:09:16.160 --> 1:09:19.240
<v Speaker 9>kind State and in Northern Shan State on the and

1:09:19.680 --> 1:09:23.720
<v Speaker 9>Kachin State also actually it's the GUY now, but and

1:09:23.800 --> 1:09:28.680
<v Speaker 9>they're an extremely powerful armed organization, highly disciplined, highly effective.

1:09:28.320 --> 1:09:28.880
<v Speaker 7>Well armed.

1:09:30.120 --> 1:09:34.160
<v Speaker 9>The The second group is the Ta'ang National Liberation Army.

1:09:34.200 --> 1:09:37.479
<v Speaker 9>This is a an ethnic based army in northern Shan

1:09:37.479 --> 1:09:42.360
<v Speaker 9>State that also is a relatively a newer armed organization.

1:09:44.560 --> 1:09:51.519
<v Speaker 9>They it's it's a pretty complex military environment in Northern

1:09:51.520 --> 1:09:54.280
<v Speaker 9>Shan State because the t n l A are often

1:09:54.920 --> 1:09:59.240
<v Speaker 9>in tension with other shn ethnic groups that are in

1:09:59.280 --> 1:10:02.719
<v Speaker 9>Shan State and footing the RCSS or the Shan State

1:10:02.840 --> 1:10:06.559
<v Speaker 9>Army South, which is competing for control in other parts

1:10:06.920 --> 1:10:10.360
<v Speaker 9>of Shan State. We've also seen some tension between the

1:10:10.479 --> 1:10:13.479
<v Speaker 9>t n l A and the s SPP, which is

1:10:13.520 --> 1:10:18.639
<v Speaker 9>another Northern Shan army that's closely aligned with the Wah

1:10:18.840 --> 1:10:23.719
<v Speaker 9>and Chinese. So that's a that's a pretty complex array

1:10:23.760 --> 1:10:27.080
<v Speaker 9>of relationships there. But the TNLA is also an increasingly

1:10:27.120 --> 1:10:33.000
<v Speaker 9>powerful armed organization, one that administer administers territory and has

1:10:33.080 --> 1:10:35.800
<v Speaker 9>also been locked in conflict with the Memory military for

1:10:35.880 --> 1:10:39.400
<v Speaker 9>some time. The last group is the m n d

1:10:39.520 --> 1:10:43.439
<v Speaker 9>a A the MEMR National Democratic Alliance Army UH. This

1:10:43.600 --> 1:10:49.599
<v Speaker 9>is a Ko Kong ethnic based armed organization that for

1:10:49.680 --> 1:10:56.479
<v Speaker 9>a long time controlled territory along the China border. In

1:10:56.760 --> 1:10:59.640
<v Speaker 9>two thousand and nine, Men Online, who is now the

1:10:59.680 --> 1:11:01.400
<v Speaker 9>commit ender in chief and the head of.

1:11:02.960 --> 1:11:04.120
<v Speaker 7>The sac.

1:11:06.360 --> 1:11:09.680
<v Speaker 9>He essentially was leading commands in north, in the northeast

1:11:09.720 --> 1:11:12.559
<v Speaker 9>and led operations to push the m n d a

1:11:12.560 --> 1:11:16.360
<v Speaker 9>A out of that territory and replace it with a

1:11:16.479 --> 1:11:18.559
<v Speaker 9>border guard force of.

1:11:18.479 --> 1:11:23.280
<v Speaker 7>Another ethnic Ko Kong ethnic army.

1:11:23.920 --> 1:11:26.519
<v Speaker 9>And we can get back to that, but that ethnic

1:11:26.600 --> 1:11:30.320
<v Speaker 9>army became or is a criminal enterprise that's now operating

1:11:30.800 --> 1:11:35.400
<v Speaker 9>massive scam and human trafficking operations with the support of

1:11:35.439 --> 1:11:38.760
<v Speaker 9>the m R Military. They're commissioned under the MEMR Military.

1:11:39.720 --> 1:11:42.280
<v Speaker 9>But I think a key point here is that there's

1:11:42.600 --> 1:11:44.840
<v Speaker 9>it's very personal with the m n d a A

1:11:45.479 --> 1:11:46.719
<v Speaker 9>and this border guard.

1:11:46.520 --> 1:11:49.440
<v Speaker 7>Force and and men online.

1:11:49.240 --> 1:11:51.320
<v Speaker 9>And so this is really the m n d a

1:11:51.320 --> 1:11:53.479
<v Speaker 9>A is an organization that has been pushing for a

1:11:53.600 --> 1:11:57.760
<v Speaker 9>very long time to retake this territory and particularly this

1:11:57.960 --> 1:12:01.839
<v Speaker 9>city of Lau Kai. And so that that that three

1:12:01.960 --> 1:12:07.559
<v Speaker 9>constitutes the Brotherhood Alliance. There's other stakeholders in this region,

1:12:07.680 --> 1:12:11.559
<v Speaker 9>including the United Waw State Army, which is the largest

1:12:11.640 --> 1:12:18.760
<v Speaker 9>armed organization in Meanmar, or non state armed organization as well,

1:12:18.960 --> 1:12:22.760
<v Speaker 9>which is very closely tied with the Chinese. I mean

1:12:22.800 --> 1:12:28.360
<v Speaker 9>they use Chinese currency, they speak Chinese they fully administer

1:12:28.400 --> 1:12:34.200
<v Speaker 9>their territory and autonomously. And then the other organizations that

1:12:34.200 --> 1:12:36.400
<v Speaker 9>are relevant here is the National Democratic Alliance Army and

1:12:36.520 --> 1:12:38.920
<v Speaker 9>d a A, which is essentially you can think of

1:12:38.960 --> 1:12:40.439
<v Speaker 9>it as a closely tied.

1:12:40.280 --> 1:12:42.600
<v Speaker 7>With the law and the Chinese.

1:12:42.880 --> 1:12:45.880
<v Speaker 9>And then the Kachin Independence Army, which is a Kachin

1:12:46.200 --> 1:12:52.559
<v Speaker 9>ethnic based armed organization very much founded as a social

1:12:52.680 --> 1:12:54.839
<v Speaker 9>services I mean, it's it's kind of got a different

1:12:54.880 --> 1:12:57.200
<v Speaker 9>identity from some of these other groups. It's very much

1:12:57.200 --> 1:13:03.479
<v Speaker 9>like a revolutionary organization with political intentions. There's kind of

1:13:03.560 --> 1:13:06.480
<v Speaker 9>Christian beliefs that are embedded within the organization.

1:13:07.960 --> 1:13:09.160
<v Speaker 7>So yeah, all to.

1:13:09.080 --> 1:13:11.639
<v Speaker 9>Say, it's a highly complex array of actors with different

1:13:11.640 --> 1:13:15.559
<v Speaker 9>intentions and motivations. But in this particular case, they came

1:13:15.600 --> 1:13:19.439
<v Speaker 9>together to at least the Brotherhood Alliance came together to

1:13:19.520 --> 1:13:21.400
<v Speaker 9>launch this coordinated attack.

1:13:22.120 --> 1:13:25.479
<v Speaker 4>The T'ang National Liberation Army the group who received many

1:13:25.520 --> 1:13:27.840
<v Speaker 4>of the young people of Mandalay who went on to

1:13:27.840 --> 1:13:31.680
<v Speaker 4>form the Mandalaid PDF. Those young people started out as

1:13:31.720 --> 1:13:34.240
<v Speaker 4>a strikeforce within Mandleay, but there are only weapons on

1:13:34.240 --> 1:13:36.720
<v Speaker 4>Molotov cocktails, and every action they took with the risk

1:13:36.760 --> 1:13:39.840
<v Speaker 4>of their whole families if they were caught by march.

1:13:40.520 --> 1:13:44.040
<v Speaker 4>A few weeks into the revolution, Montenay and others took

1:13:44.080 --> 1:13:46.960
<v Speaker 4>to the mountains with the Tang National Liberation Army to

1:13:47.040 --> 1:13:50.559
<v Speaker 4>learn to fight. Before the revolution, he said he had

1:13:50.560 --> 1:13:53.640
<v Speaker 4>no experience and he didn't even play fighting video games.

1:13:54.280 --> 1:13:56.120
<v Speaker 4>I asked him how it felt to be joining a

1:13:56.160 --> 1:13:58.799
<v Speaker 4>group he'd been raised to hate and how he got there.

1:13:59.200 --> 1:14:02.160
<v Speaker 10>If all, we we formed many peria.

1:14:02.880 --> 1:14:08.000
<v Speaker 8>We started as an mst which is a manually special

1:14:08.160 --> 1:14:08.880
<v Speaker 8>task Force.

1:14:10.120 --> 1:14:16.120
<v Speaker 10>It was the first training for our organizations and H.

1:14:16.360 --> 1:14:20.440
<v Speaker 8>At the time we only have a SAM handmade weapons

1:14:20.479 --> 1:14:25.760
<v Speaker 8>like Molotov, but we really don't use like handmade guns.

1:14:26.320 --> 1:14:30.679
<v Speaker 8>But the after the support of T and L, we

1:14:30.680 --> 1:14:34.120
<v Speaker 8>we got the automatic rifles with the help of our

1:14:34.560 --> 1:14:40.320
<v Speaker 8>lines and UH. At first, when we act as a

1:14:40.439 --> 1:14:46.360
<v Speaker 8>MSTF manally special tax force, we restrict the rooms for

1:14:46.600 --> 1:14:51.080
<v Speaker 8>not attaching to the schools or hospitals or the civilians,

1:14:51.520 --> 1:14:55.120
<v Speaker 8>and then after that we start using the handmade weapons

1:14:55.160 --> 1:14:56.960
<v Speaker 8>like just like Molotov.

1:14:57.640 --> 1:14:59.840
<v Speaker 10>We didn't use any handguns at the.

1:14:59.840 --> 1:15:04.920
<v Speaker 8>Time, but after that we trained UH and we contact

1:15:04.960 --> 1:15:08.120
<v Speaker 8>with the tn L. We have a We now have

1:15:08.160 --> 1:15:12.960
<v Speaker 8>the automotic rifles and then others, uh, missiles or something

1:15:13.000 --> 1:15:13.280
<v Speaker 8>like that.

1:15:13.800 --> 1:15:14.040
<v Speaker 10>Now.

1:15:14.640 --> 1:15:19.240
<v Speaker 8>So when he decided to contact with the T and

1:15:19.360 --> 1:15:26.160
<v Speaker 8>L and the End National what he expected were nothing

1:15:26.240 --> 1:15:31.160
<v Speaker 8>else but some few problems that about the racists because

1:15:31.280 --> 1:15:36.040
<v Speaker 8>of most of the ethnic groups, they most of them

1:15:36.120 --> 1:15:41.479
<v Speaker 8>they hate Bumbis people and they even called the Bummy's army.

1:15:42.200 --> 1:15:45.840
<v Speaker 8>So he was explaining that we will be having a

1:15:46.040 --> 1:15:52.320
<v Speaker 8>racist problem. But when he actually reached to the End region, uh,

1:15:52.520 --> 1:15:55.160
<v Speaker 8>he found out that there is no hatred to the

1:15:55.240 --> 1:15:59.000
<v Speaker 8>Bombish people, and then there was no problem about the

1:15:59.080 --> 1:16:00.960
<v Speaker 8>racist problem.

1:16:01.040 --> 1:16:03.559
<v Speaker 10>Yeah. He also thought that it's because of the.

1:16:03.520 --> 1:16:10.120
<v Speaker 8>Community condication between the bombies people and the plan racist Uh.

1:16:10.240 --> 1:16:14.479
<v Speaker 8>Because Palan people they provide tea, leaves and the other

1:16:16.920 --> 1:16:21.360
<v Speaker 8>things to eat bambished people and then they make some

1:16:21.560 --> 1:16:26.439
<v Speaker 8>tradings and then some they do some business with barbised people.

1:16:27.320 --> 1:16:31.439
<v Speaker 8>So that there was no problem about that. But the

1:16:31.479 --> 1:16:35.840
<v Speaker 8>only other thing was about the weather. Because of the

1:16:36.320 --> 1:16:41.519
<v Speaker 8>rough weather in the mountains, it's a very different weather

1:16:41.600 --> 1:16:45.680
<v Speaker 8>from the like Manulee region. It's very cool for the

1:16:45.760 --> 1:16:52.560
<v Speaker 8>people from the Manley region because Manley's yeah, and in

1:16:52.720 --> 1:16:56.799
<v Speaker 8>mountains it's very cold in here. So we stay having

1:16:57.800 --> 1:17:02.040
<v Speaker 8>problems about the weather problem, but now we are getting

1:17:02.120 --> 1:17:04.639
<v Speaker 8>used to it. And he said that he is also

1:17:05.479 --> 1:17:11.160
<v Speaker 8>surprised that TNLA, the a National Libation Army is a

1:17:11.200 --> 1:17:15.519
<v Speaker 8>wealth am military and then they are also following the

1:17:15.560 --> 1:17:20.080
<v Speaker 8>code of conduct and then the following the democracy way,

1:17:20.360 --> 1:17:23.880
<v Speaker 8>and then most of the leaders from the TNLA of

1:17:24.040 --> 1:17:27.920
<v Speaker 8>the liberal ideas and then they also one we work

1:17:27.960 --> 1:17:32.720
<v Speaker 8>on to the young leaders from the Revolution Force US.

1:17:33.040 --> 1:17:35.479
<v Speaker 10>So see, he was surprised about that.

1:17:36.160 --> 1:17:38.599
<v Speaker 4>Billy told me that this same dynamic could occurred all

1:17:38.640 --> 1:17:40.800
<v Speaker 4>over the country. And this is probably a good time

1:17:40.840 --> 1:17:43.240
<v Speaker 4>to remind listeners that we've covered the formation of the

1:17:43.240 --> 1:17:46.599
<v Speaker 4>PDFs and our two previous series about Membar and if

1:17:46.600 --> 1:17:48.000
<v Speaker 4>he hasn't had the time to listen to those, I

1:17:48.040 --> 1:17:49.840
<v Speaker 4>really hope you do because it'll make this one a

1:17:49.880 --> 1:17:52.400
<v Speaker 4>lot more interesting and this one probably won't make much

1:17:52.400 --> 1:17:53.160
<v Speaker 4>sense without it.

1:17:53.360 --> 1:17:55.960
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, and I think this is really a key dynamic.

1:17:56.240 --> 1:17:58.679
<v Speaker 9>And we can come back to the conversation maybe about

1:17:59.240 --> 1:18:02.879
<v Speaker 9>day after or the political dimensions of the conflict.

1:18:02.960 --> 1:18:10.720
<v Speaker 11>But there's frankly, before the coup, these sorts of coordinations

1:18:10.760 --> 1:18:13.680
<v Speaker 11>would be uh like incomprehensible.

1:18:13.760 --> 1:18:18.240
<v Speaker 9>I mean, you'd see the Arakan Army, the Kachin Independence Army,

1:18:18.680 --> 1:18:23.639
<v Speaker 9>the T'ang National Liberation Army, all of them have deep

1:18:24.560 --> 1:18:31.559
<v Speaker 9>connections with mostly Bamar ethnic pds, some of whom work

1:18:32.080 --> 1:18:34.840
<v Speaker 9>in coordination with the National Unity Government, some which are

1:18:34.840 --> 1:18:39.759
<v Speaker 9>slightly more independent. But the this is an inter ethnic

1:18:40.040 --> 1:18:47.760
<v Speaker 9>collaboration that's that's very novel and demonstrates a shift and

1:18:48.560 --> 1:18:51.519
<v Speaker 9>inter ethnic and intercommunal dynamics in the country that are

1:18:51.600 --> 1:18:56.439
<v Speaker 9>is very positive in a lot of ways. So yeah,

1:18:56.439 --> 1:19:00.559
<v Speaker 9>the t n l A, the has been provided weapons

1:19:00.560 --> 1:19:03.840
<v Speaker 9>and training for PDFs in Mandalay, the k i O,

1:19:04.080 --> 1:19:06.599
<v Speaker 9>the k i A has been providing weapons and training

1:19:06.680 --> 1:19:11.200
<v Speaker 9>and tactical and strategic support to PDFs and sagain, the

1:19:11.320 --> 1:19:15.120
<v Speaker 9>Arakan Army has been maybe more than any group, providing

1:19:15.200 --> 1:19:20.720
<v Speaker 9>tactical UH support and weapons and training to PDFs in Bogo, Arowadi,

1:19:21.120 --> 1:19:25.120
<v Speaker 9>Maguay and now more recently in Segaine, so really the

1:19:25.120 --> 1:19:28.479
<v Speaker 9>the Burman heartland of the country. So yeah, all of

1:19:28.520 --> 1:19:35.879
<v Speaker 9>these ethnic minority based armed organizations are now collaborating, sharing

1:19:36.000 --> 1:19:42.800
<v Speaker 9>resources and knowledge with UH, with with Bamar ethnic PDFs.

1:19:44.000 --> 1:19:46.360
<v Speaker 9>There's a so that I think the main question here

1:19:46.479 --> 1:19:49.840
<v Speaker 9>is like what does this mean for intercommunal relations, What

1:19:49.880 --> 1:19:53.200
<v Speaker 9>does this mean for the future uh of you know,

1:19:53.240 --> 1:19:56.200
<v Speaker 9>of the country is there? Does this indicate there's potential

1:19:56.280 --> 1:19:59.639
<v Speaker 9>for greater national solidarity in the absence of the MEMR

1:19:59.680 --> 1:20:04.280
<v Speaker 9>militi very fracturing communities and so on. But yeah, it's

1:20:04.560 --> 1:20:06.680
<v Speaker 9>a radical shift in those relationships.

1:20:07.080 --> 1:20:09.679
<v Speaker 4>But he also shared that as we've heard from every

1:20:09.720 --> 1:20:13.080
<v Speaker 4>single PDF fighter we've talked to, their time alongside the

1:20:13.080 --> 1:20:15.600
<v Speaker 4>eros IS comrades in arms has changed the way they

1:20:15.640 --> 1:20:17.559
<v Speaker 4>see ethnicity in the future of their country.

1:20:17.880 --> 1:20:20.479
<v Speaker 9>And I think this is also manifesting a lot of

1:20:21.000 --> 1:20:23.639
<v Speaker 9>the research that my organization, the US Institute of Piece

1:20:23.680 --> 1:20:26.640
<v Speaker 9>has been doing at the among the general public. I mean,

1:20:26.680 --> 1:20:30.600
<v Speaker 9>we've done three different studies over the past year to

1:20:30.680 --> 1:20:33.720
<v Speaker 9>assess intercreminal relations in the post couperiod and to kind

1:20:33.720 --> 1:20:38.320
<v Speaker 9>of see how relations have shifted, because there's a really

1:20:38.360 --> 1:20:44.639
<v Speaker 9>dominant narrative that MEMR is kind of irreconcilably fractured and

1:20:44.880 --> 1:20:48.880
<v Speaker 9>that the communities are loyal to their ethnic identities not

1:20:48.920 --> 1:20:50.320
<v Speaker 9>their national identities and.

1:20:50.280 --> 1:20:51.479
<v Speaker 7>So on, and.

1:20:53.280 --> 1:20:55.640
<v Speaker 9>Frankly, all of our research has has pointed to a

1:20:55.680 --> 1:21:01.559
<v Speaker 9>similar trend, which is one of inter ethnic relations are

1:21:01.600 --> 1:21:02.719
<v Speaker 9>considerably better.

1:21:03.160 --> 1:21:06.600
<v Speaker 7>There's a there's greater solidarity.

1:21:07.720 --> 1:21:12.120
<v Speaker 9>There's actually one of the serv the experimental research studies

1:21:12.160 --> 1:21:15.559
<v Speaker 9>that we did found that national identity, as in being

1:21:15.600 --> 1:21:20.240
<v Speaker 9>from MEMMR was more was more important to respondence than

1:21:20.360 --> 1:21:28.080
<v Speaker 9>ethnic identity, which totally cuts against narratives about MEMMAR. And Yeah,

1:21:28.120 --> 1:21:31.120
<v Speaker 9>I mean, I think there's been considerable gains and inter

1:21:31.200 --> 1:21:35.320
<v Speaker 9>ethnic relations, and it's you know, it's hard to determine,

1:21:36.080 --> 1:21:39.720
<v Speaker 9>you know, the causal linkages here, whether you know, the

1:21:39.880 --> 1:21:43.439
<v Speaker 9>improved inter ethnic relations are spurring greater military collaboration and

1:21:43.520 --> 1:21:46.360
<v Speaker 9>collaboration on humanitarian assistants and governance and so on. But

1:21:47.800 --> 1:21:51.719
<v Speaker 9>it does feel like there's a major shift and social

1:21:51.800 --> 1:21:55.479
<v Speaker 9>dynamics in addition to these kind of military shifts that

1:21:55.479 --> 1:21:58.160
<v Speaker 9>are taking place. I mean, I think that the research

1:21:58.200 --> 1:22:03.640
<v Speaker 9>we've done has found there to be sort of extremist

1:22:03.760 --> 1:22:10.120
<v Speaker 9>national perspectives still remain, but that they're they're the likelihood

1:22:10.120 --> 1:22:12.920
<v Speaker 9>of them escalating to violence is reduced, in large part

1:22:13.000 --> 1:22:19.719
<v Speaker 9>because the public's vulnerability to UH incitement or to highly

1:22:19.720 --> 1:22:20.960
<v Speaker 9>devisive political speech.

1:22:21.120 --> 1:22:22.200
<v Speaker 7>Most of what came.

1:22:22.040 --> 1:22:28.240
<v Speaker 9>From Mailmar military run troll farms is is much I mean,

1:22:28.240 --> 1:22:30.960
<v Speaker 9>there's much more resilience to those that that form of

1:22:31.000 --> 1:22:34.479
<v Speaker 9>political violence, So you know, I think there's still a

1:22:34.479 --> 1:22:39.160
<v Speaker 9>lot of work obviously to do to build intercommunal cohesion

1:22:39.600 --> 1:22:44.320
<v Speaker 9>and understanding, but that the likelihood, you know, for example,

1:22:44.360 --> 1:22:48.320
<v Speaker 9>in a post sac world, that you will be you know,

1:22:48.640 --> 1:22:54.000
<v Speaker 9>see mass intercommunal violence, it seems much lower than a

1:22:54.000 --> 1:22:57.680
<v Speaker 9>lot of people are presuming that it would be that

1:22:57.800 --> 1:23:01.439
<v Speaker 9>the that the actual horizontal relationships across communities are not

1:23:02.040 --> 1:23:05.280
<v Speaker 9>are not as bad as many presume. Actually, one of

1:23:05.320 --> 1:23:09.120
<v Speaker 9>the surveys that we did found that Memar's intercommunal relations

1:23:09.160 --> 1:23:13.280
<v Speaker 9>are no worse than countries with much lower levels of violence,

1:23:13.680 --> 1:23:16.280
<v Speaker 9>which is kind of an indication of the fact that

1:23:16.640 --> 1:23:22.040
<v Speaker 9>it's really vertical dynamics like violent political speech, highly exclusionary

1:23:22.040 --> 1:23:27.360
<v Speaker 9>governance structures that are driving intercommunal violence, and so that

1:23:27.520 --> 1:23:29.880
<v Speaker 9>those on that dimension at least that the person to

1:23:29.960 --> 1:23:34.639
<v Speaker 9>person intercommunal relation or relationships, I think there's a lot

1:23:34.680 --> 1:23:35.000
<v Speaker 9>to be.

1:23:36.680 --> 1:23:38.960
<v Speaker 7>A lot of positive narratives there.

1:23:39.600 --> 1:23:42.799
<v Speaker 4>Talking of positive narratives, here's some positive narratives about products

1:23:42.800 --> 1:23:46.240
<v Speaker 4>and or services. Another aspect of the conflict that has

1:23:46.280 --> 1:23:48.400
<v Speaker 4>played out in Operation ten twenty seven, it's the role

1:23:48.439 --> 1:23:51.320
<v Speaker 4>of China and the massive crime empires that the junta

1:23:51.320 --> 1:23:54.439
<v Speaker 4>has facilitated along the country's borders in recent years. I

1:23:54.479 --> 1:23:56.160
<v Speaker 4>asked Billy to explain some of those.

1:23:56.680 --> 1:24:02.639
<v Speaker 9>So this has become the major political dynamic between China

1:24:02.680 --> 1:24:05.200
<v Speaker 9>and the SAC over the past year.

1:24:05.400 --> 1:24:06.880
<v Speaker 7>Frankly, I mean, it's.

1:24:08.160 --> 1:24:10.879
<v Speaker 9>Essentially what we've seen is the emergence of these massive

1:24:10.960 --> 1:24:16.759
<v Speaker 9>scam operations that use foreign labor that's trafficked into MEMR

1:24:17.080 --> 1:24:23.120
<v Speaker 9>into areas controlled primarily by MEMMR military commissioned border guard forces.

1:24:23.560 --> 1:24:25.800
<v Speaker 9>So these are commissioned under the MEMR military, which is

1:24:25.800 --> 1:24:29.960
<v Speaker 9>a very key point in most cases, and they are

1:24:30.080 --> 1:24:34.759
<v Speaker 9>running scam operations at a global level that are scamming

1:24:34.800 --> 1:24:39.040
<v Speaker 9>people using a scheme called pig butchering, which is long

1:24:39.160 --> 1:24:40.360
<v Speaker 9>term relationship building.

1:24:40.479 --> 1:24:41.440
<v Speaker 7>And then.

1:24:42.960 --> 1:24:46.040
<v Speaker 9>You're yeah, theft at a large scale. This is like,

1:24:46.920 --> 1:24:51.000
<v Speaker 9>these are sizable losses from individuals. So last year, for example,

1:24:51.040 --> 1:24:54.400
<v Speaker 9>to give you a sense of that scale, China lost

1:24:54.439 --> 1:24:57.160
<v Speaker 9>twenty billion dollars to these scam operations.

1:24:57.200 --> 1:24:57.920
<v Speaker 7>Twenty billion.

1:24:58.920 --> 1:24:59.200
<v Speaker 10>Yeah.

1:24:59.280 --> 1:25:02.559
<v Speaker 9>In the United State it's lost two billion dollars on

1:25:02.840 --> 1:25:06.479
<v Speaker 9>scam operations emerging from Meanmar. I mean, the scale of

1:25:06.479 --> 1:25:09.000
<v Speaker 9>this is wild. I mean there's more than there's more

1:25:09.040 --> 1:25:13.040
<v Speaker 9>than one hundred thousand people being held in scam zones

1:25:13.200 --> 1:25:17.639
<v Speaker 9>in Meanmar from forty six different countries. I mean it's

1:25:17.680 --> 1:25:20.200
<v Speaker 9>a it's this is a total global operation because I

1:25:20.240 --> 1:25:23.960
<v Speaker 9>mean this emerged actually before COVID, I mean in sia Hanookville,

1:25:24.080 --> 1:25:26.880
<v Speaker 9>Cambodia and other places where there's you know, rule of

1:25:26.960 --> 1:25:31.120
<v Speaker 9>laws is dubious. They have have the initiated kind of

1:25:31.160 --> 1:25:35.679
<v Speaker 9>casino operations which are illegal in China and really targeting

1:25:35.760 --> 1:25:39.920
<v Speaker 9>Chinese public. And during COVID, when China a lot of

1:25:39.960 --> 1:25:44.240
<v Speaker 9>Chinese nationals were forced back to mainland China, these criminal

1:25:44.320 --> 1:25:48.719
<v Speaker 9>enterprises were short on labor and so they shifted their approach.

1:25:48.840 --> 1:25:53.280
<v Speaker 9>I mean they shifted to trafficking people into their zones

1:25:53.400 --> 1:25:57.000
<v Speaker 9>and then operating out a global scale finding labor from

1:25:57.120 --> 1:26:01.519
<v Speaker 9>around the world, you know, using not not low skilled labor.

1:26:01.520 --> 1:26:05.400
<v Speaker 9>I mean this is these are high skilled kind of

1:26:05.520 --> 1:26:09.600
<v Speaker 9>middle class workers seeking employment in the tech industry or

1:26:09.640 --> 1:26:13.040
<v Speaker 9>some other scheme that they you know, eventually they're you know,

1:26:13.080 --> 1:26:16.800
<v Speaker 9>held at gunpoint and forced to scam their co nationals.

1:26:18.160 --> 1:26:19.439
<v Speaker 7>So that's a little bit of background.

1:26:19.520 --> 1:26:24.360
<v Speaker 9>So this is happening in Ko Kong along the Chinese border,

1:26:24.560 --> 1:26:27.280
<v Speaker 9>also in the Waw territories and in the n d

1:26:27.439 --> 1:26:31.200
<v Speaker 9>A A territories. The largest areas are actually on the

1:26:31.320 --> 1:26:35.559
<v Speaker 9>Thai Burma border with the Kren Border Guard Force and

1:26:35.720 --> 1:26:43.360
<v Speaker 9>affiliated criminal organizations. So essentially, over the past year, the

1:26:43.479 --> 1:26:47.680
<v Speaker 9>Chinese have have noticed not only the financial losses but

1:26:47.720 --> 1:26:52.800
<v Speaker 9>the potential for social instability because as youth unemployment has

1:26:52.840 --> 1:26:57.000
<v Speaker 9>grown in China, you know, these young people are seeking

1:26:57.160 --> 1:27:02.000
<v Speaker 9>new employment opportunities, crossing the border in memr for high

1:27:02.040 --> 1:27:04.360
<v Speaker 9>paying tech jobs and then being held at gunpoints. So

1:27:04.400 --> 1:27:07.800
<v Speaker 9>you have you know, mothers on social media saying I

1:27:07.840 --> 1:27:10.400
<v Speaker 9>haven't seen my son in three weeks, and you know

1:27:10.520 --> 1:27:13.280
<v Speaker 9>he's being held in a scam operation. So you know

1:27:13.360 --> 1:27:16.240
<v Speaker 9>this is this is diletarious at two levels, you know,

1:27:16.280 --> 1:27:20.280
<v Speaker 9>the financial scam losses and the trafficking, and it's all

1:27:20.360 --> 1:27:24.599
<v Speaker 9>being run by border guard forces that are commissioned by

1:27:24.640 --> 1:27:28.679
<v Speaker 9>the Malamar military. And yet you see countries around the world,

1:27:28.720 --> 1:27:32.280
<v Speaker 9>including China, going to the Malamar military and saying please

1:27:32.320 --> 1:27:35.960
<v Speaker 9>shut this down. And of course the Malmur military has

1:27:35.960 --> 1:27:39.759
<v Speaker 9>no intention to shut this down because these these scam

1:27:39.800 --> 1:27:43.280
<v Speaker 9>operations are financing the border guard forces that are their

1:27:43.439 --> 1:27:47.760
<v Speaker 9>key weapon against the resistance. So they need the border

1:27:47.800 --> 1:27:50.680
<v Speaker 9>guard forces and so they will never shut down the

1:27:50.720 --> 1:27:56.120
<v Speaker 9>scam operations, and so what what ensued was essentially earlier

1:27:56.160 --> 1:27:58.439
<v Speaker 9>this year. I mean the Chinese came to the Malmour

1:27:58.520 --> 1:28:01.200
<v Speaker 9>military and said, we will suppor you at every level.

1:28:01.320 --> 1:28:03.439
<v Speaker 9>We will prop you up, provide you weapons, to provide

1:28:03.439 --> 1:28:06.400
<v Speaker 9>you assistance if you can demonstrate the capacity to govern,

1:28:06.760 --> 1:28:10.120
<v Speaker 9>the capacity to provide stability on our border, the capacity

1:28:10.200 --> 1:28:16.040
<v Speaker 9>to provide to allow us to pursue our economic interests.

1:28:16.080 --> 1:28:20.120
<v Speaker 9>And the SAC has completely failed this test. Scam operations

1:28:20.120 --> 1:28:25.800
<v Speaker 9>have exploded China's economic interests. The Chupu Especial Economic Zone

1:28:25.920 --> 1:28:30.360
<v Speaker 9>remains in a impact assessment phase. The Lepidon copper mind

1:28:30.439 --> 1:28:33.920
<v Speaker 9>is non functional, the Mitzo dam is non functional. They're

1:28:33.960 --> 1:28:36.240
<v Speaker 9>just not getting out of the SAC what they wanted.

1:28:37.520 --> 1:28:42.800
<v Speaker 9>And so there was a meaningful shift recently, it appears,

1:28:44.080 --> 1:28:48.800
<v Speaker 9>and I think by all indicators that we can see

1:28:48.920 --> 1:28:53.880
<v Speaker 9>the Chinese greenlit Operation ten twenty seven that they at

1:28:53.960 --> 1:28:55.719
<v Speaker 9>least did not stand in their way.

1:28:57.840 --> 1:28:59.439
<v Speaker 7>And you'll see from.

1:28:59.320 --> 1:29:03.240
<v Speaker 9>The MND, I mean they really were the leaders of

1:29:03.280 --> 1:29:06.439
<v Speaker 9>the operation that in the statements that they issued about

1:29:06.720 --> 1:29:11.160
<v Speaker 9>the operation itself and when they articulated their objectives, the

1:29:11.200 --> 1:29:14.519
<v Speaker 9>first objective was to shut down scam operations. I mean,

1:29:14.520 --> 1:29:16.720
<v Speaker 9>you can see that this is they're speaking to a

1:29:16.840 --> 1:29:23.600
<v Speaker 9>Chinese public and the government indicating that we're a responsible,

1:29:23.600 --> 1:29:27.960
<v Speaker 9>good faith actor that will shut down these enterprises that

1:29:28.000 --> 1:29:32.040
<v Speaker 9>are trafficking your citizens and scamming the public.

1:29:31.960 --> 1:29:33.200
<v Speaker 7>Out of billions of dollars.

1:29:34.120 --> 1:29:38.920
<v Speaker 9>So this has become a really dominant dynamic in the

1:29:39.000 --> 1:29:45.280
<v Speaker 9>relationship between the Chinese and the SAC, and it's it

1:29:45.360 --> 1:29:49.760
<v Speaker 9>leads to a really weakened position for the SAC if

1:29:49.760 --> 1:29:52.120
<v Speaker 9>they're not being propped up in the way that they

1:29:52.160 --> 1:29:54.960
<v Speaker 9>have been for so long by the Chinese. So we'll

1:29:54.960 --> 1:30:00.240
<v Speaker 9>have to see how this kind of unfolds, but it's

1:30:00.280 --> 1:30:01.679
<v Speaker 9>not looking good for the military.

1:30:02.400 --> 1:30:05.080
<v Speaker 4>When we do see how this unfolds, it'll be people

1:30:05.120 --> 1:30:07.320
<v Speaker 4>like the mandol A PDF who we see leading the

1:30:07.400 --> 1:30:11.479
<v Speaker 4>charge for a new and democratic MEANDMA. We don't exactly

1:30:11.600 --> 1:30:14.840
<v Speaker 4>know what that means, but I asked them, if the

1:30:14.840 --> 1:30:17.120
<v Speaker 4>weapons see is in operation ten twenty seven, we'd allow

1:30:17.200 --> 1:30:19.320
<v Speaker 4>them to arm more fighters and get there faster.

1:30:19.800 --> 1:30:24.400
<v Speaker 8>We are also now recruiting a new recruits, but we

1:30:24.600 --> 1:30:30.519
<v Speaker 8>will we will have to recruit until the genter is gone.

1:30:30.880 --> 1:30:35.640
<v Speaker 8>And we also need more soldiers to form up the

1:30:36.520 --> 1:30:41.479
<v Speaker 8>better army than the gener after we want, even after

1:30:41.560 --> 1:30:44.559
<v Speaker 8>we want, we are going to need some more human

1:30:44.640 --> 1:30:50.479
<v Speaker 8>resources to form up the better army than the Malei Army,

1:30:50.560 --> 1:30:55.599
<v Speaker 8>you know. And for the arms and ammunitions, we got

1:30:55.800 --> 1:30:59.800
<v Speaker 8>a lot of arm and ammunitions from the Male like

1:31:00.880 --> 1:31:06.840
<v Speaker 8>but we it's they use a different type of the ammunitions.

1:31:06.880 --> 1:31:10.640
<v Speaker 8>And then because we for example, we use like a

1:31:10.800 --> 1:31:15.760
<v Speaker 8>K types, we have the different So it is not

1:31:16.040 --> 1:31:22.040
<v Speaker 8>very possible to arm the better weapons from the the

1:31:22.240 --> 1:31:27.880
<v Speaker 8>Mali army. We only used some of the weapons, like

1:31:28.080 --> 1:31:32.800
<v Speaker 8>for the artillery or something like that, but that's only

1:31:32.880 --> 1:31:37.080
<v Speaker 8>a few we got from them. What we really need

1:31:37.400 --> 1:31:41.760
<v Speaker 8>is about the better artillery or s A M or

1:31:41.800 --> 1:31:44.120
<v Speaker 8>something like that for the a strights.

1:31:44.600 --> 1:31:49.000
<v Speaker 10>So yeah, it's not very usedful for us.

1:31:48.760 --> 1:31:52.679
<v Speaker 8>From the anthem ammunition we got from the Male army.

1:31:53.320 --> 1:31:57.799
<v Speaker 8>He said that the main points in the arm revolution

1:31:58.000 --> 1:32:02.880
<v Speaker 8>is it's about to catch up important points, not to

1:32:03.000 --> 1:32:07.679
<v Speaker 8>catcha all the CDs or something like that, like to

1:32:07.760 --> 1:32:14.360
<v Speaker 8>catchure the enemy sec quartas or the important places. We

1:32:14.960 --> 1:32:17.840
<v Speaker 8>are going to need more plants, and then he say

1:32:17.920 --> 1:32:20.280
<v Speaker 8>that he's unclear about that.

1:32:21.280 --> 1:32:23.760
<v Speaker 4>I asked Billy what he thought we could expect in

1:32:23.760 --> 1:32:27.320
<v Speaker 4>the new Mianma. I see points out here. Everything every

1:32:27.320 --> 1:32:30.400
<v Speaker 4>Circled analyst has said has been proven wrong by the revolution.

1:32:31.080 --> 1:32:35.000
<v Speaker 4>They've exceeded the wildest expectations of experts in London and Washington, DC.

1:32:35.840 --> 1:32:38.000
<v Speaker 4>And where they go next is really up to them.

1:32:38.280 --> 1:32:40.240
<v Speaker 9>Good question, and frankly, I don't have a lot of

1:32:41.680 --> 1:32:44.240
<v Speaker 9>information about that. I mean, you've seen pictures over the

1:32:44.280 --> 1:32:47.920
<v Speaker 9>past twelve days of the as the resistance has taken

1:32:48.080 --> 1:32:48.759
<v Speaker 9>one hundred.

1:32:48.560 --> 1:32:49.520
<v Speaker 7>And fifty posts.

1:32:49.640 --> 1:32:55.040
<v Speaker 9>They've definitely captured a lot of heavy munitions and artillery,

1:32:55.479 --> 1:32:59.120
<v Speaker 9>but yeah, I'm not sure service to air capabilities. I mean,

1:32:59.160 --> 1:33:01.920
<v Speaker 9>I think the the fact that the meanmaur military is

1:33:02.800 --> 1:33:07.320
<v Speaker 9>not able to push the resistance out of urban areas.

1:33:07.320 --> 1:33:09.000
<v Speaker 9>I mean, this is the first time really that the

1:33:09.040 --> 1:33:12.920
<v Speaker 9>resistance moved into urban areas and held them, including into

1:33:12.960 --> 1:33:15.720
<v Speaker 9>guy and I mean Colon has been they're holding it,

1:33:17.160 --> 1:33:19.920
<v Speaker 9>and so I mean that seems to be an indication

1:33:19.960 --> 1:33:25.000
<v Speaker 9>to me that the essay c's capability is weakening. I mean, yeah,

1:33:25.040 --> 1:33:30.160
<v Speaker 9>their their access to foreign currency and to purchase weapons

1:33:30.560 --> 1:33:35.879
<v Speaker 9>is highly constrained now. I mean their primary providers Russia

1:33:35.920 --> 1:33:38.600
<v Speaker 9>and China, you know, ones fighting their own war and

1:33:38.640 --> 1:33:40.720
<v Speaker 9>the other is kind of is a little bit more

1:33:40.720 --> 1:33:44.559
<v Speaker 9>skeptical as to whether they deserve their support. I mean

1:33:44.600 --> 1:33:49.000
<v Speaker 9>they just last week the US initiated new sanctions on

1:33:49.080 --> 1:33:51.680
<v Speaker 9>the Meanoma oil and Gas enterprise that provided half a

1:33:51.680 --> 1:33:57.040
<v Speaker 9>billion dollars in revenue for the junta per year. Yeah,

1:33:57.080 --> 1:34:00.240
<v Speaker 9>that's a major that's a major issue for them accessing

1:34:00.479 --> 1:34:04.000
<v Speaker 9>US dollars which they need to buy weapons. I mean,

1:34:04.040 --> 1:34:08.800
<v Speaker 9>the Ties can no longer pay the Memoir military and

1:34:09.160 --> 1:34:13.360
<v Speaker 9>USD and the Memor military doesn't want bought. So they're

1:34:13.400 --> 1:34:17.920
<v Speaker 9>literally negotiating barter agreements where they you know, sell gas

1:34:18.000 --> 1:34:22.800
<v Speaker 9>for material goods. But now you have the Resistance controlling

1:34:23.200 --> 1:34:25.960
<v Speaker 9>you know, part of Cocker Rig on the Asia Highway

1:34:25.960 --> 1:34:28.840
<v Speaker 9>into Thailand. I mean, they control the borders, are the

1:34:28.960 --> 1:34:30.960
<v Speaker 9>starting to in a way they hadn't before, So even

1:34:31.600 --> 1:34:36.080
<v Speaker 9>this sort of bartering or material trade is is less viable.

1:34:37.520 --> 1:34:41.400
<v Speaker 9>So yeah, I mean, I think they're just really asset constrained,

1:34:42.760 --> 1:34:44.760
<v Speaker 9>and it does I mean just the fact that they

1:34:44.760 --> 1:34:49.200
<v Speaker 9>haven't been able to retake these critical logistic coups. I

1:34:49.240 --> 1:34:52.920
<v Speaker 9>mean the border crossings that the Resistance has have controlled

1:34:53.000 --> 1:34:57.640
<v Speaker 9>constitute forty percent of the of the of the overland

1:34:57.680 --> 1:35:00.920
<v Speaker 9>trade between China and Memar. It's you know, it's like

1:35:00.960 --> 1:35:04.280
<v Speaker 9>four billion dollars in value that's being you know, that

1:35:04.479 --> 1:35:09.040
<v Speaker 9>tax loss for the SAC it's considerable. It's considerable losses

1:35:09.080 --> 1:35:11.479
<v Speaker 9>there as well. And how long they can really hold

1:35:11.520 --> 1:35:16.840
<v Speaker 9>out and maintain their air assets is really questionable, particularly

1:35:16.880 --> 1:35:21.599
<v Speaker 9>since they've had to massively diversify their air asset purchase,

1:35:21.760 --> 1:35:25.880
<v Speaker 9>which really makes it more complex to service points. And

1:35:26.640 --> 1:35:29.120
<v Speaker 9>so yeah, I mean, I think I'm not sure that

1:35:29.120 --> 1:35:31.920
<v Speaker 9>the Resistance has much more capacity in service to air

1:35:32.000 --> 1:35:36.200
<v Speaker 9>or air defense, but it does seem like there the

1:35:36.320 --> 1:35:39.639
<v Speaker 9>SACS capacity to inflict atrocities in this way has also

1:35:39.680 --> 1:35:40.360
<v Speaker 9>been constrained.

1:35:40.479 --> 1:35:42.599
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it sort of flies in the face of every

1:35:42.760 --> 1:35:46.519
<v Speaker 4>sort of like analytical idea about the assets that you

1:35:46.560 --> 1:35:49.080
<v Speaker 4>need to have in order to be successful in one

1:35:49.120 --> 1:35:51.120
<v Speaker 4>of these Like they they've really proved a lot of

1:35:51.120 --> 1:35:55.320
<v Speaker 4>people wrong in a really impressive way. I know, you

1:35:55.320 --> 1:35:57.800
<v Speaker 4>have to go, I want to ask one more real

1:35:57.880 --> 1:36:04.120
<v Speaker 4>quick the uh did these towns did the SAC pull

1:36:04.160 --> 1:36:07.800
<v Speaker 4>out of the towns or did they like fight house

1:36:07.800 --> 1:36:11.839
<v Speaker 4>to house or like how did they very across.

1:36:11.840 --> 1:36:15.760
<v Speaker 9>Well, the I mean, the SAC was you know, in

1:36:15.840 --> 1:36:18.160
<v Speaker 9>their barracks themselves.

1:36:18.200 --> 1:36:19.040
<v Speaker 7>I mean, in these.

1:36:18.840 --> 1:36:22.200
<v Speaker 9>Towns it's a national uprising. The public is you know,

1:36:22.280 --> 1:36:27.080
<v Speaker 9>opposed to the presence this is an occupying force, and

1:36:27.520 --> 1:36:31.240
<v Speaker 9>so yeah, it's just moving in and capturing military posts.

1:36:31.520 --> 1:36:36.439
<v Speaker 9>And as one person, resistance fighter indicated, essentially you fire

1:36:36.479 --> 1:36:38.679
<v Speaker 9>your gun in the air and they lay down their weapons,

1:36:38.840 --> 1:36:41.760
<v Speaker 9>which is more you know, an indication of of where

1:36:41.800 --> 1:36:46.360
<v Speaker 9>the military stands and the support that these these highly

1:36:46.400 --> 1:36:49.000
<v Speaker 9>isolated I mean, this is a fractured light infantry force

1:36:49.080 --> 1:36:54.720
<v Speaker 9>that's dispersed a posts all over the country, and you

1:36:54.760 --> 1:36:59.559
<v Speaker 9>know they're resupplying from the Northwest Command in Monuoas to

1:36:59.560 --> 1:37:03.040
<v Speaker 9>towns within thirty minutes drive by helicopter because they can't

1:37:03.479 --> 1:37:07.880
<v Speaker 9>they can't move, so there's just not logistics support to

1:37:07.960 --> 1:37:12.519
<v Speaker 9>these posts. And so yeah, you've got folks in there

1:37:12.600 --> 1:37:16.879
<v Speaker 9>that just the will to fight is pretty small. Morale

1:37:17.040 --> 1:37:21.240
<v Speaker 9>is shrinking from a very low base, and so I

1:37:21.240 --> 1:37:24.440
<v Speaker 9>think there was the the general pattern is just resistance

1:37:24.479 --> 1:37:27.680
<v Speaker 9>taking military barracks and posts.

1:37:28.479 --> 1:37:30.840
<v Speaker 7>Rather than having to go house to house.

1:37:31.640 --> 1:37:34.360
<v Speaker 9>I mean there's villages in towns where there's these groups

1:37:34.400 --> 1:37:39.960
<v Speaker 9>called pew Sawtee that are like military aligned militias, but yeah,

1:37:40.120 --> 1:37:45.280
<v Speaker 9>that's not really you know, a nationwide fighting force, and

1:37:45.320 --> 1:37:47.800
<v Speaker 9>it's in most cases it really is just the resistance

1:37:47.880 --> 1:37:54.080
<v Speaker 9>capturing posts and pushing out you know, or military personnel.

1:37:54.200 --> 1:37:57.240
<v Speaker 9>And I mean there was a they're also using drones

1:37:57.280 --> 1:37:59.200
<v Speaker 9>to a high degree of effectiveness.

1:37:59.200 --> 1:38:01.639
<v Speaker 7>They recently killed a colonel who.

1:38:01.560 --> 1:38:06.920
<v Speaker 9>Is on He was about to be become a brigadier general,

1:38:07.600 --> 1:38:09.759
<v Speaker 9>the highest ranking person to have been killed in battle

1:38:10.080 --> 1:38:13.320
<v Speaker 9>from the menmoral military through a drone strike in northern

1:38:14.120 --> 1:38:18.840
<v Speaker 9>Shun State, I believe for kit Chen, and I think that, yeah,

1:38:18.880 --> 1:38:23.760
<v Speaker 9>the resistance drone capabilities have also increased considerably.

1:38:23.800 --> 1:38:24.519
<v Speaker 7>And this is also an.

1:38:24.439 --> 1:38:28.160
<v Speaker 9>Area where you see nug collaborating a lot with the ROS.

1:38:29.360 --> 1:38:36.160
<v Speaker 9>So yeah, it's it's it's just yeah, it's embarracked, you know,

1:38:36.400 --> 1:38:41.160
<v Speaker 9>menomour military personnel and they just in many cases just

1:38:41.240 --> 1:38:44.760
<v Speaker 9>lay down their arms because it's just moral so low.

1:38:44.800 --> 1:38:46.639
<v Speaker 9>And the probability of them to be able to fend

1:38:46.640 --> 1:38:50.400
<v Speaker 9>off indefinitely is when they have the public against them

1:38:50.439 --> 1:38:53.040
<v Speaker 9>and a resistance movement against them. It's just really a

1:38:53.120 --> 1:38:54.519
<v Speaker 9>challenging set of conditions for them.

1:38:55.360 --> 1:38:57.920
<v Speaker 4>We don't know exactly what the future of MEA. Murray is,

1:38:58.280 --> 1:39:00.840
<v Speaker 4>but it took an interesting turn the last few weeks

1:39:00.880 --> 1:39:04.960
<v Speaker 4>with the k NDF the Saquareni National Defense Force Fish

1:39:05.040 --> 1:39:08.280
<v Speaker 4>Battalion issuing a statement of solidarity with the people of

1:39:08.360 --> 1:39:11.519
<v Speaker 4>Rejava and the people of Java in the form of

1:39:11.520 --> 1:39:14.320
<v Speaker 4>the YPG and the YPGA, their defense units of men

1:39:14.360 --> 1:39:18.160
<v Speaker 4>and women respectively, recording a response a great risk during

1:39:18.200 --> 1:39:21.680
<v Speaker 4>the ongoing grown campaign expressing their solidarity and support for

1:39:21.720 --> 1:39:25.479
<v Speaker 4>the revolutionary people of Myanmar, something will cover in greater

1:39:25.560 --> 1:39:28.640
<v Speaker 4>detail on another episode, but it's yet another illustration of

1:39:28.640 --> 1:39:31.679
<v Speaker 4>how the revolutionary people of Mianma have continued to defy

1:39:31.840 --> 1:39:36.559
<v Speaker 4>everyone's expectations about how and where they will go next,

1:39:37.080 --> 1:39:39.439
<v Speaker 4>and how they've managed to dream up a vision from

1:39:39.560 --> 1:39:42.240
<v Speaker 4>more equal and just future, even as they face the

1:39:42.280 --> 1:39:45.439
<v Speaker 4>injustice and inequality of fighting a war the world doesn't

1:39:45.439 --> 1:39:48.360
<v Speaker 4>seem to care about. Without a single dollar of international

1:39:48.360 --> 1:39:51.840
<v Speaker 4>military aid, little support other than strongly worded letters from

1:39:51.840 --> 1:39:54.880
<v Speaker 4>the UN at sporadic intervals have come. To the end

1:39:54.880 --> 1:39:58.240
<v Speaker 4>of the episode, I asked Sya Montine if he had

1:39:58.280 --> 1:39:59.800
<v Speaker 4>anything else he would like to share with.

1:39:59.800 --> 1:40:07.000
<v Speaker 8>Our Okay, he said that if he is able to talk,

1:40:07.720 --> 1:40:12.519
<v Speaker 8>he wants them to know that we are not the

1:40:12.720 --> 1:40:18.160
<v Speaker 8>white people. We most of them are educated we are

1:40:18.200 --> 1:40:24.200
<v Speaker 8>only fighting for the democrats. But in some international news

1:40:24.800 --> 1:40:30.960
<v Speaker 8>there will be some news that like pdf revolution forces

1:40:31.040 --> 1:40:35.160
<v Speaker 8>are killing each other or something like that, but it's

1:40:35.200 --> 1:40:40.439
<v Speaker 8>like not fully correct. Maybe some a few will be

1:40:40.600 --> 1:40:45.200
<v Speaker 8>doing that, but most of us are not doing that way.

1:40:45.960 --> 1:40:48.760
<v Speaker 10>It's just a propagona from the male.

1:40:48.920 --> 1:40:53.720
<v Speaker 8>Like you know, we also say that we are no

1:40:53.880 --> 1:40:58.880
<v Speaker 8>more expecting for the help from the other countries. We

1:40:59.000 --> 1:41:03.680
<v Speaker 8>will be fighting our own and then with our spiritatively

1:41:03.800 --> 1:41:08.080
<v Speaker 8>in And he also wanted to say that to the

1:41:08.200 --> 1:41:13.160
<v Speaker 8>US government or the King of England or the other

1:41:13.840 --> 1:41:21.440
<v Speaker 8>countries authorities that we are not wild ones. We are educated,

1:41:21.840 --> 1:41:25.640
<v Speaker 8>and then we are just fighting to get the democracy

1:41:25.720 --> 1:41:29.320
<v Speaker 8>back to our country. He's a little bit from words,

1:41:29.400 --> 1:41:35.519
<v Speaker 8>you know, say that if other governments are not helping

1:41:35.720 --> 1:41:40.439
<v Speaker 8>us because they can't get any benefits from helping us,

1:41:40.880 --> 1:41:44.599
<v Speaker 8>even if they don't want to help us, just don't

1:41:45.000 --> 1:41:48.800
<v Speaker 8>look as like we are the wild ones. We will

1:41:48.800 --> 1:41:53.760
<v Speaker 8>be trying to get the level of the other countries.

1:41:54.320 --> 1:41:56.160
<v Speaker 10>We will always be trying for that.

1:41:57.400 --> 1:42:01.000
<v Speaker 8>If you have any chance to speak out in a

1:42:01.200 --> 1:42:06.680
<v Speaker 8>seminar or the workshops or any other things or any meetings,

1:42:07.360 --> 1:42:12.960
<v Speaker 8>he wants you to tell the news about killings. Each

1:42:13.000 --> 1:42:19.559
<v Speaker 8>other of our revolution process is just a propagunnas of SAC.

1:42:20.720 --> 1:42:25.040
<v Speaker 8>If there is no more SAC, there will be no

1:42:25.240 --> 1:42:30.040
<v Speaker 8>issues like the anymore. Most of some issues are just

1:42:30.120 --> 1:42:34.040
<v Speaker 8>because of SAC and then they spread in some rumors

1:42:34.080 --> 1:42:37.559
<v Speaker 8>about that and then take news. You know, if you

1:42:37.640 --> 1:42:40.479
<v Speaker 8>guys can can come and visit us, and then you

1:42:40.560 --> 1:42:44.559
<v Speaker 8>can see how we treat people, and then how we

1:42:44.640 --> 1:42:49.120
<v Speaker 8>respect the civilians, and then how we follow put of

1:42:49.200 --> 1:42:50.839
<v Speaker 8>contexts in person.

1:42:51.600 --> 1:42:53.479
<v Speaker 4>Do you want to follow the medal APDF? You can

1:42:53.520 --> 1:42:56.280
<v Speaker 4>search them on Facebook where they post regular updates. We'll

1:42:56.320 --> 1:42:58.720
<v Speaker 4>include the link in the show notes for you. If

1:42:58.720 --> 1:43:00.519
<v Speaker 4>you want to hear more from Billy, I'll let him

1:43:00.520 --> 1:43:01.000
<v Speaker 4>tell you how.

1:43:01.520 --> 1:43:01.760
<v Speaker 10>Sure.

1:43:01.880 --> 1:43:04.599
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, I mean, we put out a paper at USIP

1:43:04.760 --> 1:43:09.960
<v Speaker 9>dot org yesterday on the relationship between the scam operations

1:43:10.040 --> 1:43:10.519
<v Speaker 9>and the.

1:43:12.120 --> 1:43:13.000
<v Speaker 7>Conflict dynamics.

1:43:13.000 --> 1:43:16.280
<v Speaker 9>I'm putting one out probably next week on the day

1:43:16.320 --> 1:43:21.200
<v Speaker 9>after quote unquote dynamics, summarizing some of our research.

1:43:22.240 --> 1:43:25.920
<v Speaker 7>I'm on Twitter at b I L L E E.

1:43:25.840 --> 1:43:28.639
<v Speaker 9>The number four, the letter D, so you can try

1:43:28.640 --> 1:43:31.160
<v Speaker 9>to stay up on some of the conflict dynamics there.

1:43:32.240 --> 1:43:35.160
<v Speaker 7>But yeah, the USIP websites where we published most of

1:43:35.200 --> 1:43:36.320
<v Speaker 7>our most of our stuff.

1:43:37.080 --> 1:43:39.880
<v Speaker 4>In closing, I just want to share how much hope

1:43:39.880 --> 1:43:42.240
<v Speaker 4>I found in the conflict in the MR in recent weeks.

1:43:42.640 --> 1:43:45.040
<v Speaker 4>At a time when the world seems so full of cruelty,

1:43:45.680 --> 1:43:49.760
<v Speaker 4>it's inspiring to see people relatively unified, committed to respecting

1:43:49.800 --> 1:43:53.920
<v Speaker 4>life and civilians and succeeding against all the odds. This

1:43:54.000 --> 1:43:57.639
<v Speaker 4>doesn't mean they don't need help. They do desperately, and

1:43:58.000 --> 1:43:59.840
<v Speaker 4>I hope that this people continue to advocate to us

1:44:00.000 --> 1:44:03.559
<v Speaker 4>millions in Gaza. They can include civillions and revolutionaries from

1:44:03.560 --> 1:44:05.599
<v Speaker 4>me and Mark in their demands going forward.

1:44:21.960 --> 1:44:25.759
<v Speaker 3>Welcome, Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Andrew Siege

1:44:25.760 --> 1:44:28.920
<v Speaker 3>from YouTube channel Andrewism, joined today.

1:44:28.720 --> 1:44:33.639
<v Speaker 4>By James Hi. Sorry, I'm doing my own track hire.

1:44:33.760 --> 1:44:33.920
<v Speaker 10>Yeah.

1:44:33.960 --> 1:44:37.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I'm excited to hear about something. I don't know

1:44:37.000 --> 1:44:39.639
<v Speaker 4>what yet, So this should be a fun adventure.

1:44:39.760 --> 1:44:41.760
<v Speaker 3>Yes, Well, today we are doing a little bit of

1:44:41.800 --> 1:44:45.680
<v Speaker 3>time travel. Then we're gonna embark on a journey to

1:44:45.960 --> 1:44:50.080
<v Speaker 3>explode movements of about two hundred years ago that I

1:44:50.080 --> 1:44:54.000
<v Speaker 3>think is still quite relevant even today, particularly in our

1:44:54.680 --> 1:44:59.760
<v Speaker 3>very technological, fast paced world. So when we put a

1:44:59.800 --> 1:45:04.679
<v Speaker 3>new games in the early nineteenth century in England great,

1:45:05.080 --> 1:45:07.960
<v Speaker 3>which you know, is a time of great change, of evil,

1:45:08.080 --> 1:45:09.519
<v Speaker 3>disease or that jazz.

1:45:10.600 --> 1:45:15.439
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think I had thrived as a person with diabetes,

1:45:15.479 --> 1:45:17.719
<v Speaker 4>that would have made it approximately, you know, a couple

1:45:17.760 --> 1:45:18.200
<v Speaker 4>of weeks.

1:45:21.200 --> 1:45:24.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. The Industrial Revolution was in full swing. It hadn't

1:45:24.360 --> 1:45:27.240
<v Speaker 3>quite reached that point yet as far as I know,

1:45:28.439 --> 1:45:31.000
<v Speaker 3>but it was transforming the way that people lived and worked.

1:45:31.600 --> 1:45:34.040
<v Speaker 3>It was a time of innovation, was also a time

1:45:34.080 --> 1:45:38.479
<v Speaker 3>of great uncertainty, and amidst the classroom looms and rise

1:45:38.479 --> 1:45:41.800
<v Speaker 3>of organization, a group of workers emerged to became known

1:45:41.840 --> 1:45:47.240
<v Speaker 3>as the Latites. They were, you know, some early adopters. Ah, Yes,

1:45:47.479 --> 1:45:51.280
<v Speaker 3>of resistance, Yes, resistance to the changes of the Industrial Revolution.

1:45:51.960 --> 1:45:55.400
<v Speaker 3>And you know, for that cardinal sin they've been missing

1:45:55.439 --> 1:45:58.880
<v Speaker 3>too preton ever since. So today we're going to be

1:45:58.880 --> 1:46:02.720
<v Speaker 3>explaining exactly who who the Lights were and why their

1:46:02.720 --> 1:46:06.280
<v Speaker 3>actions resonate with us today in the twenty first century.

1:46:06.560 --> 1:46:10.920
<v Speaker 3>We'll talk about their history and their motivations and their

1:46:11.040 --> 1:46:14.320
<v Speaker 3>brave stand against the relentless march of capitalist progress. We're

1:46:14.320 --> 1:46:17.920
<v Speaker 3>also such on some figures, some of their tactics, and

1:46:18.040 --> 1:46:20.880
<v Speaker 3>the last impact they left on history. But most importantly,

1:46:21.200 --> 1:46:24.680
<v Speaker 3>we'll be covering why they struggle Somatus today. So here

1:46:24.720 --> 1:46:27.360
<v Speaker 3>we are. You know, in the nineteenth century indust Revolution

1:46:27.479 --> 1:46:31.240
<v Speaker 3>souping through England, British working families were going through some

1:46:31.520 --> 1:46:34.400
<v Speaker 3>very tough times as the economy was in turmoil and

1:46:34.520 --> 1:46:38.519
<v Speaker 3>unemployment was spreading like wildfire. It really wasn't a good

1:46:38.520 --> 1:46:41.639
<v Speaker 3>situation to be in. There was this never ending war

1:46:41.640 --> 1:46:45.080
<v Speaker 3>with Napoleon's France, there was Drian resources and causing what

1:46:45.240 --> 1:46:51.320
<v Speaker 3>Yorkshire historian Frank Peel described as the hard pinch of poverty.

1:46:52.400 --> 1:46:55.320
<v Speaker 3>And to make matters worse, food was in short supply

1:46:55.520 --> 1:46:58.800
<v Speaker 3>and the prices were shooting up. Not only were jobs

1:46:58.800 --> 1:47:01.240
<v Speaker 3>hard to come by, but even putting basic food on

1:47:01.280 --> 1:47:03.519
<v Speaker 3>the table was becoming a serious challenge. So it's a

1:47:03.560 --> 1:47:05.759
<v Speaker 3>really tough period for these families and they were feeling

1:47:05.800 --> 1:47:10.200
<v Speaker 3>that squeeze in every way possible. So that Light emerged

1:47:10.439 --> 1:47:13.759
<v Speaker 3>as a response to these seismic shifts as a loosely

1:47:13.840 --> 1:47:17.240
<v Speaker 3>organized group of textile workers and weavers who healed primarily

1:47:17.280 --> 1:47:22.920
<v Speaker 3>but not exclusively, from the nottingham Shire region of England.

1:47:23.760 --> 1:47:26.479
<v Speaker 3>At the heart of their struggle was the mechanization of

1:47:26.520 --> 1:47:31.479
<v Speaker 3>the textile industry. Factories powered by steam engines and intricate

1:47:31.560 --> 1:47:36.640
<v Speaker 3>machinery were replacing traditional cottage industries, leading to unemployment and

1:47:36.680 --> 1:47:40.080
<v Speaker 3>a decline in working conditions. In the place of a

1:47:40.400 --> 1:47:44.000
<v Speaker 3>cottage industry where cloth workers could work as many or

1:47:44.040 --> 1:47:47.080
<v Speaker 3>as few hours and days suited them, the factory had

1:47:47.080 --> 1:47:50.720
<v Speaker 3>a reseren where workers would work long hours at dangerous machinery,

1:47:51.040 --> 1:47:54.240
<v Speaker 3>be fed meager meals, and submit to the punitive authority

1:47:54.240 --> 1:47:59.240
<v Speaker 3>of the foremant Factory owners were winning. As I alluded

1:47:59.240 --> 1:48:02.840
<v Speaker 3>to earlier, the rights were not blindly opposed to this

1:48:02.920 --> 1:48:06.360
<v Speaker 3>idea of progress, as they've been misinterpreted, but they were

1:48:06.360 --> 1:48:10.160
<v Speaker 3>seeking to protect their livelihoods and the quality of their craftsmanship.

1:48:10.880 --> 1:48:13.640
<v Speaker 3>Many of the original rights were actually quite savvy when

1:48:13.680 --> 1:48:17.519
<v Speaker 3>it came to technology. In fact, some were highly skilled

1:48:17.560 --> 1:48:21.559
<v Speaker 3>machine operators that ended up smashing the very machines that

1:48:22.160 --> 1:48:27.240
<v Speaker 3>they were accustomed to use in They had no issue

1:48:27.280 --> 1:48:31.839
<v Speaker 3>with welcoming innovations that made their lives and their jobs easier,

1:48:32.680 --> 1:48:34.080
<v Speaker 3>but they had an issue with the way that the

1:48:34.160 --> 1:48:36.479
<v Speaker 3>new machinery is being used by the factory owners to

1:48:36.560 --> 1:48:39.920
<v Speaker 3>reduce them to mare cogs in the industrial machine. And

1:48:39.960 --> 1:48:42.120
<v Speaker 3>they didn't like that factory owners were using the machinery

1:48:42.160 --> 1:48:45.200
<v Speaker 3>to kick out the trained and skilled cloth workers in

1:48:45.240 --> 1:48:48.679
<v Speaker 3>fear of child laborers and other lower skilled workers would

1:48:48.720 --> 1:48:53.559
<v Speaker 3>be easier to exploit. The cloth for these machines produced

1:48:53.760 --> 1:48:56.400
<v Speaker 3>was of lower quality, but because it was so cheap

1:48:56.439 --> 1:48:57.920
<v Speaker 3>to churn out and there was so much of it,

1:48:58.360 --> 1:49:01.160
<v Speaker 3>the factory owners were still ted inner profit and so

1:49:01.200 --> 1:49:03.120
<v Speaker 3>that you know, that sucks for them, which is why

1:49:04.040 --> 1:49:08.920
<v Speaker 3>the rights to resist these changes embraced a distinctive form

1:49:09.040 --> 1:49:13.439
<v Speaker 3>of protest. At the time, labor organizing was labor organizing

1:49:13.560 --> 1:49:18.719
<v Speaker 3>was illegal, so they chose a suppose even more drastic

1:49:18.760 --> 1:49:23.160
<v Speaker 3>method of targets in the newly introduced machines for destruction. Yeah,

1:49:23.240 --> 1:49:23.559
<v Speaker 3>they were.

1:49:24.479 --> 1:49:26.960
<v Speaker 4>Is it E. P. Thompson who called it collective bargaining

1:49:27.000 --> 1:49:27.559
<v Speaker 4>by riot?

1:49:28.800 --> 1:49:30.439
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, I believe so.

1:49:30.920 --> 1:49:33.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think that's an excellent way to understand it.

1:49:33.560 --> 1:49:35.680
<v Speaker 4>I'm sure we'll get there, but it's yeah, it's a

1:49:36.400 --> 1:49:40.040
<v Speaker 4>means of labor organizing when labor organizing is illegal.

1:49:40.560 --> 1:49:43.879
<v Speaker 3>Indeed, indeed, and then if no other options are available

1:49:43.960 --> 1:49:45.920
<v Speaker 3>to you, you know, you're pressed against the wall. They

1:49:45.920 --> 1:49:47.160
<v Speaker 3>have no other choice.

1:49:47.479 --> 1:49:52.479
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, So these uh, these loot rights would gather together

1:49:52.520 --> 1:49:55.720
<v Speaker 12>in the dead of the night, usually in secluded areas

1:49:55.760 --> 1:49:58.520
<v Speaker 12>like forests or hillsides to plan their actions.

1:49:59.439 --> 1:50:04.439
<v Speaker 3>To maintain secrecy, the Rights adopted a strict code of silence,

1:50:04.479 --> 1:50:08.040
<v Speaker 3>making it very difficult for authorities to infiltrate their ranks.

1:50:08.640 --> 1:50:13.000
<v Speaker 3>That secrecy was crucial to their survival and their ability

1:50:13.040 --> 1:50:16.439
<v Speaker 3>to outwit the authorities, and so under this code they'd

1:50:16.520 --> 1:50:19.640
<v Speaker 3>go on and break into the factories and smash the machinery,

1:50:20.280 --> 1:50:24.320
<v Speaker 3>and occasionally leave an etching of the infamous ned Luod

1:50:24.880 --> 1:50:30.000
<v Speaker 3>as a mark of their presence. Ned Luod, by the way,

1:50:30.240 --> 1:50:34.120
<v Speaker 3>was a symbol, not their actual leader. He was a

1:50:34.200 --> 1:50:37.320
<v Speaker 3>legendary weaver who was said to have been whipped for idleness,

1:50:37.680 --> 1:50:39.599
<v Speaker 3>so he smashed two knit in frames in a fit

1:50:39.640 --> 1:50:44.880
<v Speaker 3>of passion. More likely, Nedlood didn't exist. He was more

1:50:44.880 --> 1:50:49.000
<v Speaker 3>of like a folkloric character, but the Rights named themselves

1:50:49.040 --> 1:50:51.719
<v Speaker 3>after him and would call them King Lood and General Luod.

1:50:52.840 --> 1:50:55.800
<v Speaker 3>Funny enough, the authorities actually thought he was the ringleader

1:50:56.000 --> 1:50:59.560
<v Speaker 3>of the whole operation, so they tried to hunt him down. Meanwhile,

1:50:59.640 --> 1:51:02.920
<v Speaker 3>of course, the Ludites jokingly referring to the Lud's office

1:51:02.960 --> 1:51:06.679
<v Speaker 3>and Shewood Forest, and some of the Luodites would actually

1:51:06.680 --> 1:51:10.080
<v Speaker 3>cross dress as luds wives during their protests.

1:51:13.439 --> 1:51:16.439
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I do, like every time you find an instance

1:51:16.520 --> 1:51:20.200
<v Speaker 4>of like cross dressing in history. So it was just

1:51:20.240 --> 1:51:22.559
<v Speaker 4>amusing to note that. I guess some people have decided

1:51:22.560 --> 1:51:26.639
<v Speaker 4>that like either either like cross dressing or trans people

1:51:26.640 --> 1:51:29.720
<v Speaker 4>were invented in like twenty sixteen, not that those two

1:51:29.720 --> 1:51:32.200
<v Speaker 4>things are the same, but like, we can find literally

1:51:32.280 --> 1:51:35.960
<v Speaker 4>thousands of instances of of course trans people and also crossdressing,

1:51:36.920 --> 1:51:41.120
<v Speaker 4>like as a form of like deliberate sometimes it's transgression.

1:51:41.200 --> 1:51:44.840
<v Speaker 4>Sometimes the thing that just people did. But yeah, you

1:51:44.880 --> 1:51:47.240
<v Speaker 4>can see it in depictions of the Luddites, Like people

1:51:47.320 --> 1:51:49.880
<v Speaker 4>even took the time to paint it into their paintings

1:51:51.080 --> 1:51:52.040
<v Speaker 4>exactly exactly.

1:51:53.560 --> 1:51:58.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but yees, so I mean the leader wasn't ned loud,

1:51:59.040 --> 1:52:02.400
<v Speaker 3>the leader, well, it really was a lead less movement.

1:52:02.960 --> 1:52:06.320
<v Speaker 3>The real instigators were just regular on the ground weavers

1:52:06.360 --> 1:52:10.639
<v Speaker 3>and craftsmen, folks like, for example, George Mellow, a weaver

1:52:10.720 --> 1:52:14.320
<v Speaker 3>from Huddersfield who played a pivotal role in organizing the

1:52:14.439 --> 1:52:17.320
<v Speaker 3>right actions in the West Riding of Yorkshire, best known

1:52:17.360 --> 1:52:21.200
<v Speaker 3>for the time that he fatally shot a mill owner

1:52:22.080 --> 1:52:33.559
<v Speaker 3>in the balls. Yeah, chad move indeed, indeed, But these

1:52:33.600 --> 1:52:36.320
<v Speaker 3>actions were not just you know, random acts of vandalism

1:52:36.360 --> 1:52:39.760
<v Speaker 3>and violence. They were a desperate plea for change. In fact,

1:52:40.080 --> 1:52:43.519
<v Speaker 3>they mainly confined their attacks to manufacturers who specifically use

1:52:43.600 --> 1:52:47.439
<v Speaker 3>machines in what they called a fraudulent and sitful manner

1:52:47.479 --> 1:52:51.719
<v Speaker 3>to get around standard labor practices. The lights wanted machines

1:52:51.760 --> 1:52:54.639
<v Speaker 3>that made high quality goods, and they wanted these machines

1:52:54.640 --> 1:52:56.320
<v Speaker 3>to be run by workers who had gone through an

1:52:56.320 --> 1:53:01.760
<v Speaker 3>apprenticeship and got paid decent wages. Those were really their

1:53:01.840 --> 1:53:06.840
<v Speaker 3>main concerns. And besides the raids and the smashing, they

1:53:06.880 --> 1:53:09.920
<v Speaker 3>also had a couple other tricks up their sleeves. They

1:53:10.000 --> 1:53:14.240
<v Speaker 3>organized public demonstrations, They sent out letters to local industrialists

1:53:14.280 --> 1:53:17.160
<v Speaker 3>and government officials to lay out their reasons for wrecking

1:53:17.200 --> 1:53:20.799
<v Speaker 3>the machinery. They were just smashing flow reason with no messaging.

1:53:23.240 --> 1:53:25.200
<v Speaker 3>And in different parts of England, you know, you had

1:53:25.240 --> 1:53:31.639
<v Speaker 3>different approaches, different stances and different material conditions. So, for example,

1:53:31.760 --> 1:53:35.120
<v Speaker 3>in the Midlands of England, the rights had the Company

1:53:35.240 --> 1:53:38.880
<v Speaker 3>of Framework Knitters, which was this recognized public body that

1:53:39.000 --> 1:53:41.960
<v Speaker 3>could talk to the capitalists through named representatives, and so

1:53:42.000 --> 1:53:45.439
<v Speaker 3>they used that legitimacy as a recognized institution to back

1:53:45.479 --> 1:53:48.639
<v Speaker 3>up their demands. But up in the northwest of England,

1:53:49.040 --> 1:53:52.840
<v Speaker 3>textile workers didn't have these established trade institutions, so they

1:53:52.920 --> 1:53:55.600
<v Speaker 3>used their letters to push for official recognition as a

1:53:55.720 --> 1:53:57.880
<v Speaker 3>united group of trades people. You know, it's like an

1:53:57.880 --> 1:54:02.000
<v Speaker 3>early union. The demands and just of course about smash machines.

1:54:02.040 --> 1:54:05.800
<v Speaker 3>They also wanted high min on wages and again an

1:54:05.920 --> 1:54:09.760
<v Speaker 3>end to child labor. They were playing the long game,

1:54:11.560 --> 1:54:14.000
<v Speaker 3>and in Yorkshire, you know the tone shifts of it.

1:54:14.720 --> 1:54:18.000
<v Speaker 3>They were going from letter writ into making more direct

1:54:18.120 --> 1:54:21.719
<v Speaker 3>and violent threats against local authorities who they saw support

1:54:21.800 --> 1:54:25.080
<v Speaker 3>in these nasty machines that messed with the job market

1:54:25.240 --> 1:54:30.160
<v Speaker 3>the Yorkshire that writes meant business. In fact, they carried

1:54:30.160 --> 1:54:34.120
<v Speaker 3>around these sledgehammers that they call the Great Enoch, named

1:54:34.160 --> 1:54:38.400
<v Speaker 3>after local blacksmith who had manufactured both the hammers and

1:54:38.480 --> 1:54:41.560
<v Speaker 3>also many of the machines they intended to destroy. As

1:54:41.600 --> 1:54:46.840
<v Speaker 3>they declared Enoch made them, Enoch shall break them, which

1:54:46.880 --> 1:54:50.320
<v Speaker 3>I think is just the division that gives me is like,

1:54:50.480 --> 1:54:53.280
<v Speaker 3>you know, God of War style, you know, swinging around

1:54:53.320 --> 1:54:55.360
<v Speaker 3>this sledgehammer smash of the machines.

1:54:55.880 --> 1:54:58.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, Like I mean they broke some big things, right,

1:54:59.040 --> 1:55:02.800
<v Speaker 4>Like they weren't. Uh, this wasn't like, I know, like

1:55:02.840 --> 1:55:06.720
<v Speaker 4>some sort of trivial sabotage like frame breaking is. It's

1:55:06.760 --> 1:55:08.920
<v Speaker 4>still a capital crime in the UK, but it's also

1:55:09.000 --> 1:55:10.320
<v Speaker 4>a serious feet of strength.

1:55:10.440 --> 1:55:12.840
<v Speaker 3>Yes, and I'm going to get into that.

1:55:12.880 --> 1:55:15.240
<v Speaker 4>Excellent good. Yeah, I love coming from a country with

1:55:15.320 --> 1:55:16.440
<v Speaker 4>normal laws.

1:55:18.880 --> 1:55:23.680
<v Speaker 3>There's so many. Don't even get me started on strange

1:55:23.720 --> 1:55:26.040
<v Speaker 3>laws around the world. I mean, yeah, you're ensuring that

1:55:26.080 --> 1:55:28.720
<v Speaker 3>there are some really strange, strange laws. But yeah, yeah,

1:55:28.840 --> 1:55:30.680
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure that could be a whole topic for a

1:55:30.680 --> 1:55:32.000
<v Speaker 3>whole episode.

1:55:32.200 --> 1:55:34.520
<v Speaker 4>It could be you could suggest that they're not connected

1:55:34.520 --> 1:55:38.680
<v Speaker 4>to morality. Perhaps maybe maybe the law and right and

1:55:38.680 --> 1:55:39.720
<v Speaker 4>wrong is not the same thing.

1:55:40.720 --> 1:55:45.120
<v Speaker 3>M you might be onto something there, Yeah, ponder something

1:55:45.160 --> 1:55:46.120
<v Speaker 3>to think about for sure.

1:55:46.400 --> 1:55:48.200
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1:55:48.320 --> 1:55:51.000
<v Speaker 3>So a lot of these differences and approaches like I mentioned,

1:55:51.080 --> 1:55:53.840
<v Speaker 3>really depending on their material conditions. It also depended on

1:55:53.880 --> 1:55:56.400
<v Speaker 3>the background of the workers. Some of them were frameworkers,

1:55:56.720 --> 1:55:58.640
<v Speaker 3>some of them were weavers, some of them were spinners,

1:55:58.880 --> 1:56:02.960
<v Speaker 3>and so they conduferent tactics and styles depending on what

1:56:03.040 --> 1:56:07.400
<v Speaker 3>they were experienced with and where you found them. Of course,

1:56:07.400 --> 1:56:10.120
<v Speaker 3>they were sending out death threats to some industrialists as well,

1:56:10.800 --> 1:56:13.080
<v Speaker 3>and in fact Some of these industrialists were so worried

1:56:13.080 --> 1:56:16.520
<v Speaker 3>about let light attacks that they had secret chambers built

1:56:16.520 --> 1:56:19.600
<v Speaker 3>into their buildings as escape plans in case things went

1:56:19.680 --> 1:56:23.920
<v Speaker 3>south during an attack. Yeah, you could imagine them cowering

1:56:24.000 --> 1:56:28.480
<v Speaker 3>in their holes. Yeah, just like as were outside.

1:56:28.880 --> 1:56:32.080
<v Speaker 4>Imagine being like, yeah, I'm making excellent choices in life.

1:56:32.280 --> 1:56:34.880
<v Speaker 4>I employ hundreds of people, and I've built a secret

1:56:34.920 --> 1:56:36.800
<v Speaker 4>hole to hiding when They'll never be trying to kill

1:56:36.800 --> 1:56:38.360
<v Speaker 4>me because I've made their lives so shit.

1:56:39.080 --> 1:56:42.680
<v Speaker 3>Yes, like I am going to create conditions that are

1:56:42.720 --> 1:56:46.600
<v Speaker 3>so terrible. These people are going to get so angry

1:56:46.600 --> 1:56:49.680
<v Speaker 3>at me, and then I'm just going to make a

1:56:49.760 --> 1:56:52.840
<v Speaker 3>place to hide, you know. Yeah, so of actually rectifying

1:56:53.240 --> 1:56:54.600
<v Speaker 3>the reasons they're angry.

1:56:55.280 --> 1:56:58.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, exactly. Like you could simply take the money you

1:56:58.120 --> 1:57:02.040
<v Speaker 4>spent on your secret escape hatch and distributed to people

1:57:02.080 --> 1:57:04.760
<v Speaker 4>who are literally struggling to put food in their children's mouths.

1:57:04.800 --> 1:57:07.200
<v Speaker 4>But I guess that's not the logic of capitalism, is it.

1:57:07.880 --> 1:57:10.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that'll be too that'll be too humane.

1:57:10.560 --> 1:57:13.240
<v Speaker 4>Yes, yeah, yeah, you can't let them get you know,

1:57:13.360 --> 1:57:15.400
<v Speaker 4>realize that you're afraid of them.

1:57:15.720 --> 1:57:19.880
<v Speaker 3>Indeed, for all these tactics, the rights were truly fights

1:57:20.000 --> 1:57:22.840
<v Speaker 3>not only for their own jobs, but also for us, say,

1:57:22.920 --> 1:57:26.640
<v Speaker 3>in the future of their industry and their communities. Like

1:57:26.840 --> 1:57:29.080
<v Speaker 3>regular people of today, they were just trying to provide

1:57:29.080 --> 1:57:33.160
<v Speaker 3>for their families and defend themselves against the ever expanding

1:57:33.280 --> 1:57:39.600
<v Speaker 3>incursions of the capitalists. I don't know, James, how do

1:57:39.680 --> 1:57:44.840
<v Speaker 3>you think the government and factor and has responded to

1:57:44.920 --> 1:57:52.680
<v Speaker 3>these ordinary people and their desperate and fair please for change. Yeah,

1:57:52.760 --> 1:57:54.680
<v Speaker 3>surely it was a human response right.

1:57:55.160 --> 1:57:57.720
<v Speaker 4>From Yeah, that's what I would expect as a British person.

1:57:58.280 --> 1:58:00.880
<v Speaker 4>Throughout history of our government has really shown of humanity

1:58:01.680 --> 1:58:04.280
<v Speaker 4>and compassion for people, so i'd expect they did something

1:58:04.320 --> 1:58:05.960
<v Speaker 4>similar here. That's what I learned it.

1:58:06.840 --> 1:58:12.720
<v Speaker 3>They're so compassionate that they created an empire that the

1:58:12.760 --> 1:58:16.400
<v Speaker 3>sun would never set on m hm. And the reason

1:58:16.480 --> 1:58:18.280
<v Speaker 3>is so considerate, you know, for people who are afraid

1:58:18.320 --> 1:58:18.720
<v Speaker 3>of the dark.

1:58:20.880 --> 1:58:23.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, that's the real reason.

1:58:23.680 --> 1:58:23.880
<v Speaker 10>Yeah.

1:58:23.880 --> 1:58:25.960
<v Speaker 4>And of course they were doing it to uplift, civilize

1:58:25.960 --> 1:58:28.840
<v Speaker 4>and christianize the other peoples of the world, and for

1:58:28.920 --> 1:58:30.080
<v Speaker 4>their other reasons.

1:58:31.000 --> 1:58:34.960
<v Speaker 3>Such philanthropists, such philanthropists.

1:58:35.160 --> 1:58:38.200
<v Speaker 4>Kind people who bought tea and SCons to to the

1:58:38.240 --> 1:58:41.040
<v Speaker 4>rest of the world. The British Empire and the British government.

1:58:41.120 --> 1:58:41.280
<v Speaker 10>Yeah.

1:58:42.080 --> 1:58:44.800
<v Speaker 4>Never am I going to learn something bad about them?

1:58:45.000 --> 1:58:49.879
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I hate to let you down, but the government

1:58:50.040 --> 1:58:53.720
<v Speaker 3>and the factory and I was responded with, you know,

1:58:54.040 --> 1:58:58.160
<v Speaker 3>deploying troops to quell the Lights uprisings and firing against

1:58:58.160 --> 1:59:02.320
<v Speaker 3>the protesters. In one of the bloodiest incidents, in April

1:59:02.360 --> 1:59:06.920
<v Speaker 3>eighteen twelve, some two thousand protesters marbed a mill there Manchester,

1:59:07.400 --> 1:59:10.919
<v Speaker 3>and the owner ordered his men because in addition to soldiers,

1:59:10.920 --> 1:59:13.880
<v Speaker 3>you also have these, you know, private militias that capitalists

1:59:13.880 --> 1:59:17.040
<v Speaker 3>would hire. So the owner ordered his men to fire

1:59:17.080 --> 1:59:20.320
<v Speaker 3>into the crowd, killing at least three and wound in

1:59:20.440 --> 1:59:23.800
<v Speaker 3>eighteen and then soldiers killed at least five more the

1:59:23.880 --> 1:59:24.320
<v Speaker 3>next day.

1:59:25.840 --> 1:59:27.840
<v Speaker 4>Okay, Yeah, that's that's not quite what we'd hope for,

1:59:27.960 --> 1:59:28.200
<v Speaker 4>is it.

1:59:29.000 --> 1:59:29.240
<v Speaker 9>Yeah?

1:59:29.320 --> 1:59:33.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah. Many of the Lights were arrested, many were tortured,

1:59:34.080 --> 1:59:42.400
<v Speaker 3>some even faced execution or even worse, exile to Australia.

1:59:42.560 --> 1:59:47.120
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. They're ultimate the ultimate crime, the ultimn penalty. Rather, Yeah,

1:59:47.240 --> 1:59:49.960
<v Speaker 4>it's sent to the land of kangaroos and where they

1:59:49.960 --> 1:59:55.040
<v Speaker 4>put mashed potatoes inside their pies. What Yeah, have you

1:59:55.080 --> 1:59:56.720
<v Speaker 4>not seen this? This is it's terrible.

1:59:57.040 --> 1:59:59.800
<v Speaker 3>But unfortunately are you talking about like shepherd's pie or.

2:00:00.200 --> 2:00:02.400
<v Speaker 4>No, they'll they'll take a meat pie like a normal

2:00:02.440 --> 2:00:05.280
<v Speaker 4>meat pie, and then they'll cut a bit and then

2:00:05.280 --> 2:00:10.200
<v Speaker 4>put mashed potatoes like into in the top of it.

2:00:10.320 --> 2:00:12.040
<v Speaker 3>Just to what is called.

2:00:13.040 --> 2:00:16.040
<v Speaker 4>I'd have to look now, like I've seen it on

2:00:16.120 --> 2:00:20.360
<v Speaker 4>YouTube meat pie mashed potato Australia. You can get it

2:00:20.400 --> 2:00:22.080
<v Speaker 4>like it in like you know, like like it's like

2:00:22.160 --> 2:00:25.160
<v Speaker 4>instead of having fish and chips. You can get it

2:00:25.160 --> 2:00:27.360
<v Speaker 4>at a van. Like someone will bring it to you.

2:00:28.240 --> 2:00:29.120
<v Speaker 3>I think I'm seeing it.

2:00:29.760 --> 2:00:31.920
<v Speaker 4>You found it and then they put like gravy as well.

2:00:32.640 --> 2:00:33.240
<v Speaker 3>Oh man.

2:00:33.800 --> 2:00:37.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's like I've come from a country that does

2:00:37.640 --> 2:00:41.000
<v Speaker 4>terrible things to food. But yeah, it's this one is

2:00:41.040 --> 2:00:45.600
<v Speaker 4>really something else. You can see why people where it

2:00:45.760 --> 2:00:47.120
<v Speaker 4>was the word.

2:00:47.120 --> 2:00:50.200
<v Speaker 3>I have to say though, I do admire that it

2:00:50.280 --> 2:00:52.440
<v Speaker 3>seems to be a very balanced you know, you get

2:00:52.440 --> 2:00:54.720
<v Speaker 3>in the cobs, the fats and the proteins in it.

2:00:54.800 --> 2:00:57.520
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's like, yeah, and it's all in one.

2:00:57.720 --> 2:00:59.760
<v Speaker 3>That's that's the gym bro and meats talking of course,

2:00:59.800 --> 2:01:02.640
<v Speaker 3>but it seems like a very efficient meal.

2:01:03.320 --> 2:01:06.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. It's like it's not that the Cornish pasty is

2:01:06.840 --> 2:01:11.040
<v Speaker 4>the truly the most efficient working man's power bar because

2:01:11.080 --> 2:01:14.680
<v Speaker 4>you can you can hold onto the crust and eat

2:01:14.720 --> 2:01:16.760
<v Speaker 4>the pasty and even if you have like dirty hands

2:01:16.800 --> 2:01:20.040
<v Speaker 4>from working in a factory, you still get your lunch.

2:01:21.240 --> 2:01:25.080
<v Speaker 3>Hmm. Yeah, but we're getting a little bit side.

2:01:25.400 --> 2:01:28.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, we have. We've traveled a long way.

2:01:28.040 --> 2:01:34.920
<v Speaker 3>From the exiles Australia. I shut out the thought, but

2:01:35.520 --> 2:01:38.920
<v Speaker 3>some of them, despite that, kept their fighting spirit to

2:01:38.920 --> 2:01:43.320
<v Speaker 3>the bitter end, like for example, John Booth and no

2:01:43.400 --> 2:01:46.920
<v Speaker 3>offense to you, James. But you know, a lot of

2:01:46.920 --> 2:01:51.600
<v Speaker 3>the names I read, like British history are the most

2:01:51.680 --> 2:01:56.400
<v Speaker 3>generic sound in names. You just casually find someone in

2:01:56.400 --> 2:02:00.560
<v Speaker 3>British named like John Doe.

2:02:00.760 --> 2:02:03.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we do. We're choosing from a limited palette. Like

2:02:04.000 --> 2:02:10.440
<v Speaker 4>until very recently, we were really pretty pretty like pretty

2:02:10.440 --> 2:02:12.280
<v Speaker 4>stodgy on the names, you know, Like.

2:02:12.560 --> 2:02:16.600
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I mean, it's it's iconic, but at the

2:02:16.600 --> 2:02:20.120
<v Speaker 3>same time it's also hilarious that you like everybody from

2:02:20.120 --> 2:02:24.040
<v Speaker 3>like regular people to like some of the movers and cheapers,

2:02:25.240 --> 2:02:29.440
<v Speaker 3>the leaders in the military and you know, politicians and stuff,

2:02:29.480 --> 2:02:30.400
<v Speaker 3>just all of them.

2:02:31.560 --> 2:02:37.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah yeah, it's like they had yeah yeah, yeah, just

2:02:37.280 --> 2:02:40.360
<v Speaker 4>some guy. Occasionally you'll get like a Cornelius or a

2:02:40.400 --> 2:02:43.080
<v Speaker 4>Mama duke or just some absolute nons with like a

2:02:43.120 --> 2:02:47.160
<v Speaker 4>really posh name. But yeah, otherwise, yeah, it's.

2:02:47.200 --> 2:02:49.480
<v Speaker 3>Well apparently like an Enoch, you know.

2:02:50.080 --> 2:02:52.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, you got to respect Enoch. Like once you

2:02:52.920 --> 2:02:56.520
<v Speaker 4>go outside of England you get some good names. But like, yeah,

2:02:56.600 --> 2:02:59.960
<v Speaker 4>we were moving with a pretty pretty pretty playing with

2:03:00.280 --> 2:03:02.200
<v Speaker 4>playing with a small deck. I guess when it came

2:03:02.240 --> 2:03:03.200
<v Speaker 4>to names for a while there.

2:03:03.400 --> 2:03:05.400
<v Speaker 3>For I mean, I can't even talk. My name is Andrews,

2:03:05.440 --> 2:03:07.280
<v Speaker 3>so I think.

2:03:07.160 --> 2:03:09.560
<v Speaker 4>My name is the most popular name for boys born

2:03:09.600 --> 2:03:12.000
<v Speaker 4>in the year I was born. So I can't really

2:03:12.320 --> 2:03:13.040
<v Speaker 4>can't really say much.

2:03:15.640 --> 2:03:18.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh God, we're going off track again, right yeah. John

2:03:18.040 --> 2:03:18.880
<v Speaker 3>Booth Right?

2:03:19.280 --> 2:03:19.360
<v Speaker 10>So?

2:03:19.480 --> 2:03:22.800
<v Speaker 3>John Booth was this nineteen year old apprentice who joined

2:03:22.840 --> 2:03:26.440
<v Speaker 3>one of the light attacks. He was injured, detained, and

2:03:26.720 --> 2:03:29.880
<v Speaker 3>died after being tortured to give up the identity of

2:03:29.880 --> 2:03:33.600
<v Speaker 3>his fellow thelites. A local priest was in the room

2:03:33.600 --> 2:03:38.160
<v Speaker 3>when he was passing, and his dying words became legendary.

2:03:38.320 --> 2:03:44.400
<v Speaker 3>So John was like, can you keep a secret? And

2:03:44.440 --> 2:03:48.400
<v Speaker 3>the priest was like, yes, my child, and then Booth

2:03:48.520 --> 2:03:51.480
<v Speaker 3>was like, so can I and then he died.

2:03:53.720 --> 2:03:55.360
<v Speaker 4>There you go, what a hero.

2:03:55.360 --> 2:03:57.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, iconic, iconic.

2:03:57.760 --> 2:03:58.520
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

2:03:58.560 --> 2:04:01.720
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, government officials by eighteen th eighteen, we're trying

2:04:01.760 --> 2:04:04.840
<v Speaker 3>to quash the light movement by any means necessary, so

2:04:04.880 --> 2:04:08.760
<v Speaker 3>they organize this massive trial in York after the attack

2:04:08.800 --> 2:04:12.440
<v Speaker 3>on Cartwright's mill. A Rawford's near Clakheaton.

2:04:13.480 --> 2:04:16.040
<v Speaker 4>I've got a right, yeah, clak Heaton. I think that

2:04:16.080 --> 2:04:19.040
<v Speaker 4>seems about right. Where are we in the Yeah, yeah,

2:04:19.080 --> 2:04:21.760
<v Speaker 4>we're in I'm signing it on the map, okay, in

2:04:21.800 --> 2:04:25.800
<v Speaker 4>Ellits Yeah, yeah, Bradford. I've not actually spent much time

2:04:25.800 --> 2:04:26.960
<v Speaker 4>in that part of the world, but if I had

2:04:27.000 --> 2:04:32.440
<v Speaker 4>to guess, raw folds something like that. We do, like

2:04:32.480 --> 2:04:35.520
<v Speaker 4>one of our ano Another great tradition in Britain is

2:04:35.520 --> 2:04:38.840
<v Speaker 4>having names which don't bear any relation to the way

2:04:38.840 --> 2:04:40.720
<v Speaker 4>they're spelled. We just write them like that. Actually can

2:04:40.720 --> 2:04:41.680
<v Speaker 4>tell if you're local or not.

2:04:42.320 --> 2:04:47.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I mean we primarily use British spelling conventions.

2:04:49.080 --> 2:04:53.400
<v Speaker 3>Internet in English, so I know all about your center

2:04:54.480 --> 2:04:56.360
<v Speaker 3>with the R and then the E.

2:04:57.720 --> 2:05:01.200
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, defense and yeah. I'm working on a book at

2:05:01.200 --> 2:05:04.760
<v Speaker 4>the moment and my American Microsoft word is fighting me

2:05:04.840 --> 2:05:06.640
<v Speaker 4>every step of the way on my spelling.

2:05:07.800 --> 2:05:11.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, can't they see that the U is

2:05:11.320 --> 2:05:13.280
<v Speaker 3>absolutely essential in the word color.

2:05:13.400 --> 2:05:15.320
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, and without it we wouldn't know what it meant.

2:05:15.360 --> 2:05:17.120
<v Speaker 4>And that's what language does.

2:05:19.880 --> 2:05:22.880
<v Speaker 3>So yeah. So, after this attack on Cartwright's Miller Ruffles

2:05:22.960 --> 2:05:29.160
<v Speaker 3>mayor Clakheaton, the government accused over sixty men, including Mellow

2:05:29.280 --> 2:05:33.040
<v Speaker 3>and his associates, of various crimes related to the Lights activities.

2:05:34.000 --> 2:05:36.520
<v Speaker 3>It's important to note that not all of these charged

2:05:36.720 --> 2:05:40.120
<v Speaker 3>men were actually the Lightes. Some had no connection to

2:05:40.160 --> 2:05:44.800
<v Speaker 3>the movement, and while these trials were technically legitimateury trials,

2:05:45.520 --> 2:05:48.240
<v Speaker 3>many were abandoned due to a lack of evidence laid

2:05:48.280 --> 2:05:51.000
<v Speaker 3>in the acquittal of thirty of those sixty men, and

2:05:51.040 --> 2:05:54.520
<v Speaker 3>it's evident that these trials were primarily intended as show

2:05:54.640 --> 2:05:58.240
<v Speaker 3>trials to discourage other the Lights from continuing the activities.

2:05:59.560 --> 2:06:02.320
<v Speaker 3>And then here's where we get to the important bit.

2:06:03.400 --> 2:06:06.120
<v Speaker 3>Parliament went on to make a machine breaking I eat,

2:06:06.160 --> 2:06:11.080
<v Speaker 3>industrial sabotage a capital crime with the Frame Breaking Act

2:06:11.200 --> 2:06:12.160
<v Speaker 3>of eighteen twelve.

2:06:13.560 --> 2:06:16.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, what a normal thing. And they've never repealed it,

2:06:16.200 --> 2:06:16.600
<v Speaker 4>is that right?

2:06:17.240 --> 2:06:17.480
<v Speaker 11>Yeah?

2:06:17.720 --> 2:06:20.920
<v Speaker 3>I believe I don't think so. Ye're still in the books.

2:06:21.360 --> 2:06:26.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, listen if you're listening. Since it was yeah, I

2:06:26.200 --> 2:06:27.760
<v Speaker 4>was gonna say if someone's listening in the UK, just

2:06:27.760 --> 2:06:31.600
<v Speaker 4>give it a try and see what happened. Stakes stakes

2:06:31.600 --> 2:06:34.240
<v Speaker 4>are quite high, but yeah, you know, you never know,

2:06:34.400 --> 2:06:35.960
<v Speaker 4>they might be might be able to get the Machine

2:06:36.000 --> 2:06:37.280
<v Speaker 4>Breaking Act struck down.

2:06:37.320 --> 2:06:40.760
<v Speaker 3>A frame brankingly. I wouldn't be surprised if, you know,

2:06:40.880 --> 2:06:44.160
<v Speaker 3>since it was established in eighteen twelve, if by now

2:06:46.000 --> 2:06:49.160
<v Speaker 3>a lot of the British colonies you know, might still

2:06:49.200 --> 2:06:52.080
<v Speaker 3>have it in their books as well. Yeah, yeah, have

2:06:52.160 --> 2:06:55.680
<v Speaker 3>inherited that common though and stuff. Yeah, and I'm not

2:06:55.760 --> 2:06:57.320
<v Speaker 3>like a legal score. I don't know all the deeds

2:06:57.360 --> 2:06:57.520
<v Speaker 3>on that.

2:06:58.000 --> 2:07:00.280
<v Speaker 4>No, I can see Liz trust incorporating it to her

2:07:00.320 --> 2:07:04.560
<v Speaker 4>platform to return to our leadership position. It's like a

2:07:04.760 --> 2:07:08.200
<v Speaker 4>very insane kind of Tory position, Like there's there's still

2:07:08.320 --> 2:07:12.040
<v Speaker 4>this bizarre British like any time we have a protest

2:07:12.120 --> 2:07:14.320
<v Speaker 4>movement in the streets in the UK, you can like

2:07:14.800 --> 2:07:18.400
<v Speaker 4>log onto like meta on Facebook or whatever and see

2:07:18.520 --> 2:07:21.480
<v Speaker 4>like a certain type of British person being like sending

2:07:21.560 --> 2:07:26.000
<v Speaker 4>the army. Like it's like a like there are people

2:07:26.080 --> 2:07:29.120
<v Speaker 4>who have not reconstructed their opinions on labor organizing since

2:07:29.160 --> 2:07:30.000
<v Speaker 4>the LA that period.

2:07:31.440 --> 2:07:36.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, indeed, indeed they are the Conservative Party picture them

2:07:36.880 --> 2:07:42.400
<v Speaker 3>like smoking cigars with top hats, except I know they

2:07:42.440 --> 2:07:44.480
<v Speaker 3>were not capitalists. A lot of them are just like

2:07:44.640 --> 2:07:46.840
<v Speaker 3>regular workers, just like what are you even doing?

2:07:47.200 --> 2:07:50.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah yeah, yeah, like you've like, don't you understand that

2:07:50.840 --> 2:07:53.920
<v Speaker 4>your economic interests line up with these people and not

2:07:54.080 --> 2:07:57.320
<v Speaker 4>with like the Boris Johnson's of this world, and your

2:07:57.360 --> 2:07:59.240
<v Speaker 4>social social interest too of course.

2:07:59.080 --> 2:08:02.760
<v Speaker 3>But I mean speaking of of you know, interests aligning,

2:08:04.280 --> 2:08:08.600
<v Speaker 3>there was actually a politician who did stand against that legislation,

2:08:09.440 --> 2:08:11.800
<v Speaker 3>and that is you know, the well known English poet

2:08:12.040 --> 2:08:15.000
<v Speaker 3>Lord Byron. Yeah, he was actually one of the few

2:08:15.280 --> 2:08:19.320
<v Speaker 3>prominent defenders that it's especially after witnessing how the defendants

2:08:19.360 --> 2:08:20.760
<v Speaker 3>were treated during the York trial.

2:08:22.400 --> 2:08:26.240
<v Speaker 4>I mean, go ahead, bar Byron has some surprisingly like

2:08:27.000 --> 2:08:29.640
<v Speaker 4>good and then he was part of this romantic movement, right,

2:08:29.720 --> 2:08:33.280
<v Speaker 4>like the idea that the industrial revolution spoiled the innocence

2:08:33.360 --> 2:08:37.600
<v Speaker 4>of the rural working people, which it's it's paternalist at

2:08:37.640 --> 2:08:41.400
<v Speaker 4>its core, but like when at least he's not paying

2:08:41.520 --> 2:08:42.120
<v Speaker 4>for their blood.

2:08:42.880 --> 2:08:47.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, yeah, Actually that attitude reminds me of Van

2:08:47.800 --> 2:08:53.240
<v Speaker 3>go She was another all of his art was very

2:08:53.520 --> 2:08:55.800
<v Speaker 3>obsessed with the peasants because he just saw it like

2:08:55.840 --> 2:08:59.960
<v Speaker 3>a better way of life. Yeah, real romanticization of the person.

2:09:01.040 --> 2:09:02.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it was. I think it was a thing that's

2:09:02.720 --> 2:09:05.800
<v Speaker 4>sort of spread around Europe in their late nineteenth early

2:09:05.920 --> 2:09:10.160
<v Speaker 4>twentieth century maybe like in the eighteenth centuries, no, they yeah,

2:09:10.240 --> 2:09:13.480
<v Speaker 4>nineteen to twentieth century, like this idea that yeah, like

2:09:13.600 --> 2:09:16.400
<v Speaker 4>the innocence of the rural peasants have been broken, and

2:09:16.520 --> 2:09:18.760
<v Speaker 4>like it's just so reflected in so much art from

2:09:18.800 --> 2:09:19.320
<v Speaker 4>that period.

2:09:19.360 --> 2:09:26.240
<v Speaker 3>That is, that's literally just like the evolution of nostalgia. Yeah,

2:09:26.240 --> 2:09:27.120
<v Speaker 3>fully think about it.

2:09:27.240 --> 2:09:27.360
<v Speaker 9>You know.

2:09:27.480 --> 2:09:29.760
<v Speaker 3>It's like it's kind of like our people today are like, oh,

2:09:29.920 --> 2:09:32.720
<v Speaker 3>the nineties was so much better. Oh, the two thousands

2:09:32.760 --> 2:09:35.640
<v Speaker 3>were so much better. Oh the eighties or the seventies.

2:09:35.680 --> 2:09:42.280
<v Speaker 3>It's just that but with peasants. Yeah yeah, like disco whatever. Yeah, yeah,

2:09:42.360 --> 2:09:45.160
<v Speaker 3>you're right, Like, yeah, it is. It's like doing like

2:09:46.120 --> 2:09:50.280
<v Speaker 3>doing a ironic wearing a fanny pack, but with a peasant.

2:09:50.480 --> 2:09:53.360
<v Speaker 3>Not even just in fashion. It's also like the angel

2:09:53.400 --> 2:09:57.200
<v Speaker 3>like material reasons people feel nostalgic. Nostalgic as well. Yeah,

2:09:57.480 --> 2:10:00.000
<v Speaker 3>like when think about you know, safety, when you think

2:10:00.120 --> 2:10:03.680
<v Speaker 3>about the ways that our cities have changed, think about

2:10:03.800 --> 2:10:07.720
<v Speaker 3>you know, all of the material realities that have changed

2:10:07.760 --> 2:10:10.800
<v Speaker 3>in these decades, and it makes sense. But just like

2:10:10.920 --> 2:10:13.760
<v Speaker 3>I wished for the simpler life of the present, our

2:10:13.800 --> 2:10:17.320
<v Speaker 3>people now wish, you know, go back to these simpler

2:10:17.400 --> 2:10:17.920
<v Speaker 3>times of.

2:10:19.720 --> 2:10:21.280
<v Speaker 4>You have the minus strike when.

2:10:21.360 --> 2:10:27.080
<v Speaker 3>The media posts gym through and colonial independent inspience.

2:10:27.880 --> 2:10:30.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, I mean it's uh I think also we

2:10:31.160 --> 2:10:33.440
<v Speaker 4>forget the hardships. But yeah, like it's a way, and

2:10:33.600 --> 2:10:38.400
<v Speaker 4>change accelerates so much quicker now because we've raally fucked

2:10:38.400 --> 2:10:41.120
<v Speaker 4>the whole planet, and climate change accelerating and obviously to

2:10:41.400 --> 2:10:44.560
<v Speaker 4>technological change accelerating, so our nostalgia cycles are much shorter.

2:10:44.720 --> 2:10:47.120
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, this is just like when I had an

2:10:47.240 --> 2:10:50.680
<v Speaker 4>estate and I could direct the peasants to trim my

2:10:50.800 --> 2:10:52.920
<v Speaker 4>trees in a certain shape, life was better for them

2:10:53.640 --> 2:10:57.440
<v Speaker 4>kind of, but like in a meaningful sense, right, Like

2:10:57.560 --> 2:11:00.760
<v Speaker 4>the lives of working class people were not improved. Right

2:11:00.800 --> 2:11:04.720
<v Speaker 4>we see, like the like GDP, which is a useless

2:11:05.120 --> 2:11:08.280
<v Speaker 4>metric that, like the amount of of like value of

2:11:08.320 --> 2:11:10.760
<v Speaker 4>goods the country produces an industrial revolution goes up and

2:11:10.840 --> 2:11:12.480
<v Speaker 4>up and up, but the quality of life and even

2:11:12.600 --> 2:11:17.520
<v Speaker 4>life expectancy does not, right, Like people are dying earlier

2:11:17.720 --> 2:11:21.840
<v Speaker 4>and certainly like and chiefly life expectancy is dropping because

2:11:21.920 --> 2:11:25.240
<v Speaker 4>children are dying, right, either from the industrial conditions or

2:11:25.280 --> 2:11:29.480
<v Speaker 4>conditions in cities, and so like, in a meaningful sense,

2:11:29.560 --> 2:11:31.720
<v Speaker 4>those people's life was not improved. The life of the

2:11:31.760 --> 2:11:33.040
<v Speaker 4>bourgeoisis was improved.

2:11:33.160 --> 2:11:33.480
<v Speaker 3>And like.

2:11:35.200 --> 2:11:37.440
<v Speaker 4>We see that later in Britain with things like the

2:11:38.400 --> 2:11:41.840
<v Speaker 4>Britain's forced to incorporate the bourgeoisi into into its politics, right,

2:11:41.880 --> 2:11:44.680
<v Speaker 4>so that doesn't have a bigger revolution, that's what it

2:11:44.720 --> 2:11:48.560
<v Speaker 4>does in the Great Reform Act. But like the working

2:11:48.600 --> 2:11:53.200
<v Speaker 4>class people, it continues to suppress. Like after this, you know,

2:11:53.280 --> 2:11:56.520
<v Speaker 4>we look, we see it with the chartists and like

2:11:56.800 --> 2:12:01.760
<v Speaker 4>the violent suppression of chartism. But yeah, this nostalgia isn't

2:12:02.200 --> 2:12:04.760
<v Speaker 4>it helps them, but I guess it's not really invested

2:12:04.920 --> 2:12:09.120
<v Speaker 4>in their agency. It's more of a paternalist like it's

2:12:09.320 --> 2:12:11.080
<v Speaker 4>I guess not dissimilar to the way Britain treated its

2:12:11.120 --> 2:12:12.160
<v Speaker 4>colonies in many ways.

2:12:13.440 --> 2:12:16.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I think another aspect of it as well is,

2:12:16.800 --> 2:12:18.600
<v Speaker 3>you know, when we look at this sort of nostalgia,

2:12:19.240 --> 2:12:22.160
<v Speaker 3>whether it's talking about this romantic nostalgia for the simple

2:12:22.200 --> 2:12:24.880
<v Speaker 3>life of the peasant, always talking about the nostalgia of

2:12:25.320 --> 2:12:31.680
<v Speaker 3>for example, an example from Trinidad, the oil boom period

2:12:31.840 --> 2:12:37.080
<v Speaker 3>in the seventies and eighties, right, Yeah, we gain independence

2:12:37.160 --> 2:12:40.640
<v Speaker 3>nineteen sixty two, and in the seventies and eighties we

2:12:40.720 --> 2:12:42.880
<v Speaker 3>got this oil boom, and you know, a lot people

2:12:42.880 --> 2:12:46.600
<v Speaker 3>who live in lavish But whether you talk either of

2:12:46.600 --> 2:12:48.400
<v Speaker 3>those cases, when you look at the reality of the

2:12:48.480 --> 2:12:51.880
<v Speaker 3>situation on the ground, it's like, oh, you actually go

2:12:51.920 --> 2:12:54.320
<v Speaker 3>back to that time, it wasn't also on Shannon Russ,

2:12:54.680 --> 2:12:57.280
<v Speaker 3>you know, like it actually was not good to be

2:12:57.320 --> 2:13:00.760
<v Speaker 3>a peasant. Actually, I mean there are certain things that

2:13:01.160 --> 2:13:03.200
<v Speaker 3>you know a lot better than now in terms of

2:13:03.320 --> 2:13:10.000
<v Speaker 3>perhaps the vibrants of culture or the ability to lean

2:13:10.120 --> 2:13:13.040
<v Speaker 3>on a community for support and that sort of thing.

2:13:14.120 --> 2:13:16.960
<v Speaker 3>But or take for example, this oil boom situation talking

2:13:16.960 --> 2:13:20.920
<v Speaker 3>about with Trinidad. Yeah, like there was this massive influx

2:13:21.000 --> 2:13:23.320
<v Speaker 3>of wealth and stuff, but there's also you know, a

2:13:23.320 --> 2:13:25.560
<v Speaker 3>whole bunch of corruption. And also we had the whole

2:13:25.640 --> 2:13:32.000
<v Speaker 3>nineteen seventy Black Power revolution that was born out of

2:13:32.160 --> 2:13:34.680
<v Speaker 3>the frustration of the people at the time. There's an

2:13:34.680 --> 2:13:36.360
<v Speaker 3>all sunshine and rainbows, you.

2:13:36.360 --> 2:13:39.160
<v Speaker 4>Know, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's just always this sense like

2:13:39.240 --> 2:13:42.120
<v Speaker 4>you see it in like nostalgia as well, right, Like

2:13:42.200 --> 2:13:44.960
<v Speaker 4>the nostalgia for East Germany that German people will talk

2:13:45.000 --> 2:13:50.280
<v Speaker 4>about like you also had the starz e Like, yeah, exactly.

2:13:50.440 --> 2:13:54.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean I get it when I look at

2:13:54.000 --> 2:13:56.200
<v Speaker 3>some of the maps of like like they're talking about

2:13:56.200 --> 2:14:01.040
<v Speaker 3>with Germany, some of the data related maps sociological data

2:14:01.120 --> 2:14:05.640
<v Speaker 3>of things like religiosity or things. Yeah, current with some

2:14:05.680 --> 2:14:08.400
<v Speaker 3>other examples, but there's some like stark differences between the

2:14:08.400 --> 2:14:11.800
<v Speaker 3>two sides of the country. Yes, yeah, yeah, very much so,

2:14:12.000 --> 2:14:14.920
<v Speaker 3>so I completely understand people would feel like, oh, we

2:14:15.080 --> 2:14:20.000
<v Speaker 3>feel so separate and distinct from you know, West Germany

2:14:20.600 --> 2:14:21.520
<v Speaker 3>and all that stuff.

2:14:21.640 --> 2:14:25.600
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, and when you've become like they went from

2:14:25.720 --> 2:14:28.240
<v Speaker 4>being like a I guess, like a nation within the

2:14:28.360 --> 2:14:32.120
<v Speaker 4>USSR to like the often the less economically advantage parts

2:14:32.160 --> 2:14:34.040
<v Speaker 4>of a nation which is near liberal and capitalist, and

2:14:34.280 --> 2:14:38.200
<v Speaker 4>like neoliberal capitalism is not kind to the less economically

2:14:38.520 --> 2:14:42.800
<v Speaker 4>ad advantage people. It wasn't a great situation before either,

2:14:43.080 --> 2:14:45.640
<v Speaker 4>to be clear, but like I can see how suddenly

2:14:45.720 --> 2:14:49.280
<v Speaker 4>being incorporated into like not everyone's going through this, but

2:14:49.400 --> 2:14:51.200
<v Speaker 4>you are are, and the state's not going to do

2:14:51.240 --> 2:14:53.320
<v Speaker 4>fuck all to help you. It's like I can see

2:14:53.360 --> 2:14:55.080
<v Speaker 4>how that might promote some nostalgia.

2:14:56.640 --> 2:15:02.600
<v Speaker 3>Definitely, definitely, And I mean speaking of states doing nothing.

2:15:04.520 --> 2:15:09.640
<v Speaker 3>At this time, Byron is making his speech before the lords,

2:15:10.680 --> 2:15:16.000
<v Speaker 3>and in that speech last with sarcasm, of course, he

2:15:16.160 --> 2:15:19.720
<v Speaker 3>was highlighting the benefits of automation, which he believe led

2:15:19.760 --> 2:15:24.600
<v Speaker 3>to the production of inferior goods and unemployment. He concluded

2:15:24.680 --> 2:15:28.280
<v Speaker 3>that the proposed law, the Frame Breaking Act of eighteen twelve,

2:15:29.160 --> 2:15:34.600
<v Speaker 3>was only missing two crucial elements to be effective twelve

2:15:34.760 --> 2:15:38.200
<v Speaker 3>butchers for a jury and a Jeffries for a judge,

2:15:38.760 --> 2:15:42.440
<v Speaker 3>which was a reference to George Jeffries, an infamous hanging

2:15:42.560 --> 2:15:45.360
<v Speaker 3>judge known for his very harsh judgments.

2:15:45.760 --> 2:15:49.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's also mad that, like, but also not uncommon

2:15:50.000 --> 2:15:54.640
<v Speaker 4>in this period that you are seeing like the leftmost

2:15:54.800 --> 2:15:58.040
<v Speaker 4>political opinion being advanced within Parliament being advanced in the

2:15:58.120 --> 2:16:01.680
<v Speaker 4>hereditary chamber, like the House of Law, Like.

2:16:02.040 --> 2:16:11.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly, as soon the the what's the word, the aristocratic, Yeah,

2:16:12.200 --> 2:16:16.400
<v Speaker 3>the aristocratic realm is still you know, having to deal

2:16:16.480 --> 2:16:16.640
<v Speaker 3>with this.

2:16:17.520 --> 2:16:20.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's very much tied to like a paternalism and

2:16:20.760 --> 2:16:23.040
<v Speaker 4>a sort of feudal attitude. But it's just it's just

2:16:23.120 --> 2:16:28.080
<v Speaker 4>fascinating to see, like, and it does happen especially and

2:16:28.160 --> 2:16:32.440
<v Speaker 4>I think also there's this a deep, deep disdain for

2:16:32.640 --> 2:16:37.160
<v Speaker 4>new money. That is a powerfully British vibe that that

2:16:37.360 --> 2:16:39.440
<v Speaker 4>comes especially from the House of Lords, right, like like this,

2:16:39.920 --> 2:16:42.920
<v Speaker 4>like they don't identify with the bourgeoisie at all and

2:16:43.200 --> 2:16:45.640
<v Speaker 4>fucking hate them because they're they're they're turning up at

2:16:45.680 --> 2:16:47.720
<v Speaker 4>the country club or whatever.

2:16:49.560 --> 2:16:51.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and it's so it's so funny about a lot

2:16:51.640 --> 2:16:54.160
<v Speaker 3>of old money. And I'm gonna say this, and I'm gonna,

2:16:54.240 --> 2:16:56.840
<v Speaker 3>you know, give her contrack. What's so funny about the

2:16:56.879 --> 2:16:58.800
<v Speaker 3>old money folks is that a lot of a lot

2:16:58.800 --> 2:17:01.480
<v Speaker 3>of cases they don't even have of like as much

2:17:01.560 --> 2:17:04.360
<v Speaker 3>money as the new money people. Yes, yeah, about money

2:17:04.440 --> 2:17:07.560
<v Speaker 3>for them at this point, it's really just about linear

2:17:07.720 --> 2:17:09.840
<v Speaker 3>and culture and whatever.

2:17:10.560 --> 2:17:10.800
<v Speaker 10>Yeah.

2:17:10.920 --> 2:17:14.400
<v Speaker 4>Like Britain's class thing is like it's almost like a

2:17:14.560 --> 2:17:17.560
<v Speaker 4>caste system, Like your cast is your class is inherited

2:17:17.600 --> 2:17:21.720
<v Speaker 4>regardless of your actual financial means. Like they're like lord

2:17:21.800 --> 2:17:24.080
<v Speaker 4>living in a castle that he can't afford to heat is.

2:17:24.120 --> 2:17:26.840
<v Speaker 4>It's like a it's like a it's a trope for

2:17:26.920 --> 2:17:28.279
<v Speaker 4>a reason in Britain, I guess.

2:17:28.800 --> 2:17:29.560
<v Speaker 3>Indeed indeed.

2:17:31.720 --> 2:17:31.920
<v Speaker 10>Yeah.

2:17:32.280 --> 2:17:34.560
<v Speaker 3>But the passing of that Act, and in the years

2:17:34.600 --> 2:17:38.480
<v Speaker 3>had followed, the Light Movement came to an end, but

2:17:38.959 --> 2:17:43.720
<v Speaker 3>the actions left a lasting mark on the labor movement.

2:17:44.879 --> 2:17:48.640
<v Speaker 3>There's tactics of collective action even though Clandestine laid the

2:17:48.760 --> 2:17:53.560
<v Speaker 3>groundwork for future labor unions, demonstrating the power of organized resistance,

2:17:54.959 --> 2:17:59.240
<v Speaker 3>defenders of their way of life. Reminders the technology, while

2:17:59.320 --> 2:18:03.640
<v Speaker 3>transforming to it, can also disrupt lives and communities. The

2:18:03.840 --> 2:18:09.800
<v Speaker 3>lights experiences, the lights experiences echo even today, you know,

2:18:10.200 --> 2:18:14.200
<v Speaker 3>in an era with the fear of technological unemployment, with

2:18:14.320 --> 2:18:17.119
<v Speaker 3>discussions and the impact of automation and AI.

2:18:18.959 --> 2:18:21.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you know.

2:18:21.480 --> 2:18:25.680
<v Speaker 3>Before he had said his infamous last words, John Booth

2:18:26.080 --> 2:18:30.360
<v Speaker 3>also said that the new machinery might be man's chief

2:18:30.560 --> 2:18:36.199
<v Speaker 3>lesson instead of his curse, if society were differently constituted.

2:18:37.400 --> 2:18:39.880
<v Speaker 3>In other ways, technology can either help common food or

2:18:39.959 --> 2:18:43.360
<v Speaker 3>harm them, depending on not just what the technology is,

2:18:44.080 --> 2:18:46.920
<v Speaker 3>but also what society the technology develops with it.

2:18:49.400 --> 2:18:50.680
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's very true.

2:18:52.120 --> 2:18:54.720
<v Speaker 3>So I'll leave you all with that for now, and

2:18:55.240 --> 2:18:57.680
<v Speaker 3>next time will be shifting our focus to the present

2:18:57.760 --> 2:19:04.480
<v Speaker 3>day and examining how Bloodism's principles have been applied by

2:19:05.640 --> 2:19:08.879
<v Speaker 3>movements of the twentieth and twenty first century.

2:19:09.760 --> 2:19:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Cool.

2:19:10.360 --> 2:19:14.560
<v Speaker 3>Nice, that's all for me. You can find me on YouTube.

2:19:14.600 --> 2:19:18.280
<v Speaker 3>Dot com slash Andrewism and support on Patreon dot com

2:19:18.400 --> 2:19:38.440
<v Speaker 3>slash Saint Drew this husband, it could happen here. Welcome

2:19:38.480 --> 2:19:41.120
<v Speaker 3>back to it could happen here. I'm Andrew Sage and

2:19:41.160 --> 2:19:43.959
<v Speaker 3>you can find my stuff on my YouTube channel, Andrewism.

2:19:44.640 --> 2:19:45.959
<v Speaker 3>I'm joined once again.

2:19:46.320 --> 2:19:50.960
<v Speaker 4>By James getting no less aw quid as we go

2:19:51.400 --> 2:19:54.520
<v Speaker 4>behind Andrew, I'm excited to learn about what we're going

2:19:54.560 --> 2:19:55.320
<v Speaker 4>to learn about today.

2:19:56.040 --> 2:19:59.080
<v Speaker 3>Yes, we're picking up where we left off by tackling

2:19:59.760 --> 2:20:03.680
<v Speaker 3>the bloodites of today. In our previous episode, we unravel

2:20:03.720 --> 2:20:06.240
<v Speaker 3>the story of the Floodites who stood against the encroaching

2:20:06.360 --> 2:20:10.560
<v Speaker 3>forces of the industrial revolution and more specifically, the abuses

2:20:10.720 --> 2:20:14.120
<v Speaker 3>of workers by profit seeking capitalists. They were challenging the

2:20:14.160 --> 2:20:16.880
<v Speaker 3>world view of lazier fair capitalism with this increase in

2:20:16.959 --> 2:20:21.160
<v Speaker 3>amalgamation of power, resources, and wealth, rationalized by its emphasis

2:20:21.360 --> 2:20:24.640
<v Speaker 3>on progress. Today, it seems this history as we have

2:20:24.640 --> 2:20:27.360
<v Speaker 3>of repeating itself as we face a similar struggle against

2:20:27.400 --> 2:20:30.880
<v Speaker 3>technological changes that come about to the detriment of workers.

2:20:31.280 --> 2:20:33.520
<v Speaker 3>As some tech has been used by tech companies in

2:20:33.640 --> 2:20:37.640
<v Speaker 3>various industries to drive down wages and worsen conditions for

2:20:37.920 --> 2:20:43.920
<v Speaker 3>common workers. Say, for example, technological unemployment. Theladites who once

2:20:43.959 --> 2:20:47.080
<v Speaker 3>resisted the encroachment her machines would find their concerns reflected

2:20:47.120 --> 2:20:50.360
<v Speaker 3>in our modern world. As a technological advancements often come

2:20:50.400 --> 2:20:53.760
<v Speaker 3>with the cost of those whose jobs can be automated away.

2:20:55.080 --> 2:20:59.119
<v Speaker 3>For instance, in the manufacturing industry, robots and automated assembly

2:20:59.200 --> 2:21:02.680
<v Speaker 3>lines of streamline in production lead into increased efficiency and

2:21:02.800 --> 2:21:06.280
<v Speaker 3>lower costs for companies, but these efficiencies often meant the

2:21:06.320 --> 2:21:10.600
<v Speaker 3>displacement of human workers, and such as in manufacturing, the

2:21:10.720 --> 2:21:15.440
<v Speaker 3>ripple effects extend to various sectors like customer service, transportation,

2:21:16.040 --> 2:21:20.039
<v Speaker 3>and data analysis, and so there's this fear of job

2:21:20.160 --> 2:21:27.320
<v Speaker 3>displacement looms large. However, technological unemployment, which is the belief

2:21:27.400 --> 2:21:31.520
<v Speaker 3>that as technology advances, human jobs are at risk potentially

2:21:31.760 --> 2:21:37.560
<v Speaker 3>into widespread unemployment, has been described by some economists as

2:21:37.720 --> 2:21:41.720
<v Speaker 3>a fallacy. Back in the early days of the Industrial Revolution,

2:21:41.959 --> 2:21:45.800
<v Speaker 3>when the advance of mechanization began transforming various industries, and

2:21:45.959 --> 2:21:48.560
<v Speaker 3>with workers fear and automation would render them job less

2:21:48.920 --> 2:21:53.200
<v Speaker 3>and devalue their labor, the people took a stand, but

2:21:53.280 --> 2:21:57.200
<v Speaker 3>as time passed, new industries and job opportunities emerged to

2:21:57.320 --> 2:22:01.279
<v Speaker 3>replace some of the old ones. Ultimately absorbing that workforce.

2:22:02.360 --> 2:22:04.880
<v Speaker 3>Fast forward to the twentieth century and the rise of

2:22:04.959 --> 2:22:10.240
<v Speaker 3>computers and automation technology reignited concerns about technological unemployment, but again,

2:22:10.560 --> 2:22:14.000
<v Speaker 3>new jobs were created in new industries. Today, the debate

2:22:14.120 --> 2:22:17.760
<v Speaker 3>continues as artificial intelligence, robotics, and automation advance at an

2:22:17.879 --> 2:22:21.520
<v Speaker 3>unprecedented pace, and it remains to be seen what the

2:22:21.680 --> 2:22:26.000
<v Speaker 3>long term consequences of those technologies may be. My position

2:22:26.200 --> 2:22:29.080
<v Speaker 3>has really always been that we should be working less anyway,

2:22:29.400 --> 2:22:32.280
<v Speaker 3>but instead people are obsessed with creating new jobs, even

2:22:32.280 --> 2:22:35.720
<v Speaker 3>when they're unnecessary. See you know, of course, David Graber's

2:22:35.800 --> 2:22:39.640
<v Speaker 3>bullshit jobs. But you know, even if the idea of

2:22:39.840 --> 2:22:43.520
<v Speaker 3>mass unemployment due to tech is not true, if we

2:22:43.720 --> 2:22:46.400
<v Speaker 3>end up replacing the jobs that are eraised with new jobs,

2:22:46.440 --> 2:22:50.120
<v Speaker 3>whatever the case may be, tech is nevertheless quite capable

2:22:50.120 --> 2:22:56.280
<v Speaker 3>of destroying livelihoods, creating unintended consequences, and further concentrating power

2:22:56.440 --> 2:23:00.640
<v Speaker 3>in the hands of fewer and fewer people. Tech advance

2:23:00.680 --> 2:23:04.360
<v Speaker 3>when it makes a job more fulfilling and enjoyable. They

2:23:04.400 --> 2:23:06.640
<v Speaker 3>are also those who make it more tea us and grinding,

2:23:07.320 --> 2:23:10.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean, yes, tech and free us from some tasks.

2:23:10.440 --> 2:23:13.200
<v Speaker 3>You know, accountants have digital spreadsheets to make their lives

2:23:13.280 --> 2:23:16.640
<v Speaker 3>much easier. For example, writing is way easier now that

2:23:16.720 --> 2:23:22.320
<v Speaker 3>the personal computers is more common. But while technological progress

2:23:22.480 --> 2:23:26.320
<v Speaker 3>can produce prosperity, there's really no guarantee that the prosperity

2:23:26.400 --> 2:23:29.920
<v Speaker 3>will reach the workers. In most cases on the capitalism,

2:23:30.320 --> 2:23:34.040
<v Speaker 3>it very clearly doesn't. In fact, many of the benefits

2:23:34.640 --> 2:23:37.920
<v Speaker 3>of the industrial revolution were really not felt by the

2:23:38.000 --> 2:23:42.200
<v Speaker 3>workers until decades later, after many of them had been

2:23:42.320 --> 2:23:45.800
<v Speaker 3>you know, crushed or poisoned or killed or you know,

2:23:46.160 --> 2:23:48.760
<v Speaker 3>died in a factory fire or whatever they shut down

2:23:48.959 --> 2:23:51.400
<v Speaker 3>when protesting, you know, like that, they didn't see the

2:23:51.400 --> 2:23:54.400
<v Speaker 3>benefits until much later on. You know, it's not like

2:23:55.000 --> 2:23:57.600
<v Speaker 3>you know, these things introduced and boom, everybody benefits. I

2:23:57.680 --> 2:24:02.400
<v Speaker 3>mean even now, not everybody in the world is benefiting

2:24:02.560 --> 2:24:07.039
<v Speaker 3>from you know, the computer age. There are still many people,

2:24:07.720 --> 2:24:13.560
<v Speaker 3>like for example, in the Congo, who are endurance slavery

2:24:14.040 --> 2:24:17.560
<v Speaker 3>and slave like conditions in order to you know, procure

2:24:17.560 --> 2:24:21.200
<v Speaker 3>the materials necessary for the computer age totally, and yet

2:24:22.040 --> 2:24:24.760
<v Speaker 3>they're not seeing those benefits and arranged we're scene when

2:24:24.800 --> 2:24:28.200
<v Speaker 3>they'll see the benefits that many of us enjoy in

2:24:28.320 --> 2:24:31.560
<v Speaker 3>various parts of the world, and particularly that there was

2:24:31.680 --> 2:24:36.440
<v Speaker 3>enjoy in the global North. In our relentless pursuit of

2:24:36.760 --> 2:24:41.959
<v Speaker 3>progress and technological advancement as defined by capitalism, we also

2:24:42.040 --> 2:24:45.920
<v Speaker 3>end up losing our nature, our community, and in many

2:24:46.000 --> 2:24:50.240
<v Speaker 3>cases are craftsmanship. I mean, I remember John Booth, the

2:24:50.320 --> 2:24:52.440
<v Speaker 3>one who had said can you keep a secret? Or

2:24:52.560 --> 2:24:55.840
<v Speaker 3>so can I? Yes? Other words, you know that the

2:24:55.879 --> 2:24:59.600
<v Speaker 3>new machinery, right, Beman's chief blessing in Surface Curse. It's

2:24:59.640 --> 2:25:02.600
<v Speaker 3>a side he were differently constituted. That's where I have

2:25:02.680 --> 2:25:06.600
<v Speaker 3>to bring in the one and only the ls I've

2:25:06.600 --> 2:25:09.880
<v Speaker 3>spoken about him before, of course, the Austrian philosopher, the

2:25:09.920 --> 2:25:13.720
<v Speaker 3>theologia and the sort of everything Guy ivan Ilich.

2:25:14.720 --> 2:25:16.800
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, fun times, fun times.

2:25:16.879 --> 2:25:19.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. He was a thinker ahead of his time. You know,

2:25:19.800 --> 2:25:22.160
<v Speaker 3>it's really strange in some of his positions, I think,

2:25:23.879 --> 2:25:28.480
<v Speaker 3>but a lot of his concepts resonate today in various movements.

2:25:29.240 --> 2:25:33.200
<v Speaker 3>In fact, one of the foundational concepts in the modern

2:25:33.280 --> 2:25:37.240
<v Speaker 3>movement of the growth is the concept of conviviality, which

2:25:37.400 --> 2:25:43.640
<v Speaker 3>was redefined and introduced in the context of our tools

2:25:44.440 --> 2:25:50.279
<v Speaker 3>in Elisio's book Tools of Conviviality. Eligious vision as explored

2:25:50.280 --> 2:25:53.280
<v Speaker 3>by the book is one in which technology sales humanity,

2:25:53.720 --> 2:25:58.960
<v Speaker 3>not supplant it. We had convivial tools empowered individuals and communities,

2:25:59.440 --> 2:26:02.920
<v Speaker 3>fostering creativity and autonomy while preventing the concentration of power

2:26:03.000 --> 2:26:06.879
<v Speaker 3>in the hands of the few. According to Ilig, conviviality

2:26:07.760 --> 2:26:13.080
<v Speaker 3>is individual freedom realized in personal interdependence. It's basically the

2:26:13.120 --> 2:26:17.480
<v Speaker 3>ability of individuals to interact and to interact creatively and

2:26:17.560 --> 2:26:21.280
<v Speaker 3>autonomously with others and the environment to satisfy their individual

2:26:21.400 --> 2:26:25.560
<v Speaker 3>and collective needs. Convivial tools, or those which are robust

2:26:25.640 --> 2:26:30.359
<v Speaker 3>and durable, preserve or enhance ecosystems, level unequal power relationships,

2:26:30.640 --> 2:26:33.560
<v Speaker 3>and give each person who uses them the greatest opportunity

2:26:33.600 --> 2:26:36.080
<v Speaker 3>to enrich the environment with the fruits of their vision.

2:26:36.600 --> 2:26:39.920
<v Speaker 3>And a convivial society is one in which tools, which

2:26:40.040 --> 2:26:44.959
<v Speaker 3>according to Lag includes physical hardware, productive institutions, and productive systems,

2:26:45.520 --> 2:26:52.600
<v Speaker 3>so tools will be factories, hospitals, schools, farms. All of

2:26:52.720 --> 2:26:55.160
<v Speaker 3>those things are being included in his definition of tools,

2:26:55.840 --> 2:26:57.959
<v Speaker 3>and a convivial society is one of which those tools

2:26:58.040 --> 2:27:01.720
<v Speaker 3>operate on the humans scale and save the people instead

2:27:01.920 --> 2:27:06.240
<v Speaker 3>of rulers. The idea of configual tools really challenges us

2:27:06.320 --> 2:27:08.440
<v Speaker 3>to a few technology as a means to enhance our

2:27:08.560 --> 2:27:11.920
<v Speaker 3>lives rather than displace our livelihoods. It's a call to

2:27:12.200 --> 2:27:15.240
<v Speaker 3>harness innovation for the bettend of society instead of the

2:27:15.280 --> 2:27:20.760
<v Speaker 3>perpetuation of radical monopolies, which I spoke about in a

2:27:20.840 --> 2:27:24.480
<v Speaker 3>previous it could happen here episode. I think a Lodites

2:27:24.680 --> 2:27:29.440
<v Speaker 3>like John Booth would have certainly appreciated that message.

2:27:29.840 --> 2:27:31.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and to the rights of.

2:27:31.840 --> 2:27:36.560
<v Speaker 3>Today certainly do because yeah, I'm not the first nor

2:27:36.640 --> 2:27:39.360
<v Speaker 3>the only person to see lessons to be learned from

2:27:39.400 --> 2:27:43.320
<v Speaker 3>the La Lite movement. The concept of a Neolodite movement

2:27:43.640 --> 2:27:46.200
<v Speaker 3>has been embraced by a variety of folks who may

2:27:46.480 --> 2:27:50.560
<v Speaker 3>or may not understand what the original Ledite movement was about. Like,

2:27:50.800 --> 2:27:53.560
<v Speaker 3>you know, you have these primitivists who embrace the Neoloodite

2:27:53.600 --> 2:27:56.320
<v Speaker 3>cause because I think it means hate and technology, and

2:27:56.440 --> 2:27:59.759
<v Speaker 3>you have the anarchists and the trade unionists and the environmentalists.

2:28:00.160 --> 2:28:02.280
<v Speaker 3>We're looking more at the label, organized and roots of

2:28:02.280 --> 2:28:06.000
<v Speaker 3>the original Latite movement, and of course even see echoes

2:28:06.080 --> 2:28:11.320
<v Speaker 3>of Ogloodite action in the vandalism against self driving cars.

2:28:12.160 --> 2:28:12.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

2:28:14.040 --> 2:28:19.280
<v Speaker 3>The Neolodite movement is composed of activists, workers, scholars, and

2:28:19.360 --> 2:28:22.959
<v Speaker 3>social critics who stand against the predominant worldview that unbridled

2:28:23.040 --> 2:28:27.400
<v Speaker 3>technology represents progress, point ins key, then critiques, and in

2:28:27.520 --> 2:28:31.200
<v Speaker 3>some cases actual action against technologies and tech companies that

2:28:31.320 --> 2:28:36.360
<v Speaker 3>desecrate our planet and our society. Philosopher Lewis Mumford, who

2:28:36.520 --> 2:28:39.760
<v Speaker 3>had written the Myth of the Machine Pentagonic Power, reminds

2:28:39.879 --> 2:28:43.880
<v Speaker 3>us that technology and compasses more than just physical objects.

2:28:44.360 --> 2:28:47.240
<v Speaker 3>It also includes the techniques of operation and the social

2:28:47.360 --> 2:28:53.320
<v Speaker 3>organizations that make up particular technology work. Technology reflects our worldview.

2:28:54.280 --> 2:28:57.200
<v Speaker 3>The forms of technology we embrace, whether they be machines, techniques,

2:28:57.240 --> 2:29:01.080
<v Speaker 3>or social structures, are seeply roots in our perception of life, death,

2:29:01.400 --> 2:29:05.560
<v Speaker 3>human potential, and the relationships between humans and nature. Our

2:29:05.680 --> 2:29:09.560
<v Speaker 3>choice of technology, in many ways, mirrors our outlook on

2:29:09.640 --> 2:29:13.080
<v Speaker 3>the world. That outlook in the modern world is shaped

2:29:13.120 --> 2:29:19.759
<v Speaker 3>by a rather mechanistic approach to life, characterized by rational thinking, efficiency, utilitarianism,

2:29:20.160 --> 2:29:24.000
<v Speaker 3>scientific detachment, and a belief in humanities, ownership and supremacy

2:29:24.120 --> 2:29:26.680
<v Speaker 3>over nature. That's how the end of getting texts like

2:29:26.720 --> 2:29:32.240
<v Speaker 3>the Military Industrial Complex and they were and sprawl. Honestly,

2:29:32.680 --> 2:29:36.640
<v Speaker 3>in a sense, the old lites kind of had it easy.

2:29:38.480 --> 2:29:38.520
<v Speaker 8>Not.

2:29:38.840 --> 2:29:42.480
<v Speaker 3>I mean, obviously their conditions were horrible. When I say

2:29:42.600 --> 2:29:44.080
<v Speaker 3>they had it easy, I mean it's in the sense

2:29:44.160 --> 2:29:47.439
<v Speaker 3>that their machines could be destroyed by their sledgehammers.

2:29:47.959 --> 2:29:48.400
<v Speaker 4>Right. Yeah.

2:29:48.640 --> 2:29:52.800
<v Speaker 3>Our technology is a lot more ephemoral. You know, it's

2:29:52.840 --> 2:29:57.279
<v Speaker 3>in the cloud. It's as nebulous as microplastics in the soil,

2:29:57.360 --> 2:29:59.959
<v Speaker 3>the water, and the breast milk. I mean, it's everywhere,

2:30:00.160 --> 2:30:02.040
<v Speaker 3>and it's integrated into everything. It's like, where do you

2:30:02.040 --> 2:30:02.520
<v Speaker 3>even begin?

2:30:03.280 --> 2:30:03.480
<v Speaker 6>Yeah?

2:30:03.560 --> 2:30:03.760
<v Speaker 4>Wow.

2:30:05.959 --> 2:30:10.080
<v Speaker 3>In the book When Technology Wounds by Psychologists Chellish Clendening

2:30:10.720 --> 2:30:16.800
<v Speaker 3>by psychologists Chellis Clendening, she studied technology survivors, people who

2:30:16.879 --> 2:30:19.800
<v Speaker 3>had suffered injury or illness in recent years after being

2:30:19.879 --> 2:30:23.840
<v Speaker 3>exposed to various toxic technologies in their homes and workplaces,

2:30:24.360 --> 2:30:30.040
<v Speaker 3>whether nuclear radiation, pesticides, asbestos, both control devices, or drugs,

2:30:30.600 --> 2:30:32.440
<v Speaker 3>and covered how they had begun to question not only

2:30:32.520 --> 2:30:36.880
<v Speaker 3>the processes that maimed them, but the world that indifferently

2:30:37.080 --> 2:30:40.920
<v Speaker 3>forced those processes on them under the guise of progress.

2:30:43.080 --> 2:30:45.560
<v Speaker 3>Glendening saw these victims as the basis of a new

2:30:45.640 --> 2:30:49.160
<v Speaker 3>Bloodite movement struggling against what has been called the Second

2:30:49.280 --> 2:30:53.879
<v Speaker 3>Industrial What has been called the Second Industrial Revolution alongside

2:30:53.879 --> 2:30:58.280
<v Speaker 3>thinkers like Lewis Mumford and Ivan Ilich. Those survivors have

2:30:58.360 --> 2:31:00.680
<v Speaker 3>gone on to create groups such as as Those Victims

2:31:00.720 --> 2:31:03.440
<v Speaker 3>of America as part of ME, Victims of Their Friends,

2:31:03.879 --> 2:31:08.680
<v Speaker 3>Citizens Against Pesticide Misuse, DALK and Shield Information Network, des Action,

2:31:08.800 --> 2:31:13.000
<v Speaker 3>and National National Association of Atomic Veterans, National Committee for

2:31:13.080 --> 2:31:17.879
<v Speaker 3>Victims of Human Research, National Toxics Campaign, and the VDT Coalition.

2:31:18.560 --> 2:31:20.360
<v Speaker 3>All of these, of course are based in the US,

2:31:21.400 --> 2:31:23.480
<v Speaker 3>and there are also actives groups like earth First that

2:31:23.680 --> 2:31:28.560
<v Speaker 3>could have been classified under the Neololte cause and Earthful

2:31:28.600 --> 2:31:32.039
<v Speaker 3>strategy was to stop environmental intrusions by any means available,

2:31:32.440 --> 2:31:36.320
<v Speaker 3>legal and otherwise. So they will be slashing engines, slashing tires,

2:31:36.400 --> 2:31:41.359
<v Speaker 3>disabling engines, blocking roads. Most famously, they would drilled spikes

2:31:41.360 --> 2:31:44.240
<v Speaker 3>into trees and wilderness forests to prevent them from being

2:31:44.320 --> 2:31:45.599
<v Speaker 3>logged by chainsaws.

2:31:45.879 --> 2:31:46.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

2:31:49.040 --> 2:31:51.640
<v Speaker 3>But you know, while all these movements and organizations are

2:31:51.640 --> 2:31:53.840
<v Speaker 3>happening in the Western world, it really wasn't just the

2:31:53.920 --> 2:31:57.600
<v Speaker 3>Western world where this has happening. A positive undercurrent of

2:31:57.640 --> 2:32:01.400
<v Speaker 3>the right spirit has surged where indigenous peoples have led

2:32:01.440 --> 2:32:04.959
<v Speaker 3>the charges against the incursions of industrialism. Quncies of mainly

2:32:05.040 --> 2:32:08.600
<v Speaker 3>resisting the machines and projects for industrialization, but also pushing

2:32:08.640 --> 2:32:12.800
<v Speaker 3>back against its cultural impact. Peasants and farmers staunchly rejecting

2:32:12.879 --> 2:32:16.720
<v Speaker 3>participation in the various development initiatives imposed upon them by

2:32:16.760 --> 2:32:21.200
<v Speaker 3>compliant governments, often under the influence of entities like the

2:32:21.280 --> 2:32:25.800
<v Speaker 3>World Bank or the US State Department. For example, during

2:32:25.840 --> 2:32:28.880
<v Speaker 3>the early nineteen eighties, some farmers in Mali took a

2:32:29.000 --> 2:32:32.000
<v Speaker 3>stand against the construction of dams and dykes for a

2:32:32.080 --> 2:32:35.680
<v Speaker 3>rice growing program that they wanted no part of. Other

2:32:35.760 --> 2:32:39.039
<v Speaker 3>communities elsewhere have rallied to hold dam projects that threatened

2:32:39.040 --> 2:32:42.519
<v Speaker 3>to submerge the ancestral lands, and some of them successful,

2:32:42.920 --> 2:32:46.119
<v Speaker 3>as seen of the villagers who protested the Narmada Dam

2:32:46.240 --> 2:32:49.080
<v Speaker 3>in India and the early nineteen nineties, and others have

2:32:49.200 --> 2:32:52.640
<v Speaker 3>faced more daunting challenges, like the people of eastern Java

2:32:52.680 --> 2:32:56.520
<v Speaker 3>who protested against the Neper Irrigation Dam and faced deadly

2:32:56.680 --> 2:33:00.360
<v Speaker 3>consequences at the hands of Indonesian security forces in nineteen

2:33:00.400 --> 2:33:06.120
<v Speaker 3>ninety three. Yeah interous tribes have also organized to combat

2:33:06.200 --> 2:33:09.959
<v Speaker 3>deforestation and road building projects that encroached upon their territories.

2:33:10.600 --> 2:33:13.400
<v Speaker 3>The Chipco tree Huggan movement in India during the nineteen

2:33:13.440 --> 2:33:17.440
<v Speaker 3>seventies and eighties famously succeeded in stopping government clear cutting efforts,

2:33:17.959 --> 2:33:20.960
<v Speaker 3>and similar projects have echoed across the globe, from Malaysia

2:33:21.040 --> 2:33:25.160
<v Speaker 3>to Australia, Brazil to Costa Rica, Solomon Islands, Indonesia and beyond.

2:33:26.760 --> 2:33:31.480
<v Speaker 3>Traditional fishermen in many regions, such as the Indians of continent, Malaysia, Indonesia,

2:33:31.840 --> 2:33:34.240
<v Speaker 3>and multiple ports along the Pacific coast of South America,

2:33:34.560 --> 2:33:37.960
<v Speaker 3>including Ecuador and Columbia, have also taken action against industrial

2:33:38.000 --> 2:33:41.640
<v Speaker 3>fishing fleets encroaching on their waters and jeopardizing their livelihoods.

2:33:42.240 --> 2:33:44.440
<v Speaker 3>In some cases, these protests may have involved the destruction

2:33:44.520 --> 2:33:47.680
<v Speaker 3>of machinery, but sabotage, you know, is not unheard of,

2:33:47.959 --> 2:33:49.800
<v Speaker 3>like in the case of a high tech chemical plant

2:33:49.879 --> 2:33:54.280
<v Speaker 3>in Thailand in nineteen eighty six. The driving force behind

2:33:54.360 --> 2:33:58.080
<v Speaker 3>these actions really mirrors to ethos you know, as they

2:33:58.080 --> 2:34:00.520
<v Speaker 3>share this full un desire to preserve the ways of

2:34:00.560 --> 2:34:04.080
<v Speaker 3>life and livelihood in the face of industrial capitalisms, relentless

2:34:04.160 --> 2:34:07.920
<v Speaker 3>pull towards a wage and market system. And then, of course,

2:34:08.440 --> 2:34:12.440
<v Speaker 3>outside these movers and shakers, these onderground activists, there are

2:34:12.520 --> 2:34:16.560
<v Speaker 3>also you know, the philosophical litites like the aforementioned illage.

2:34:18.280 --> 2:34:23.040
<v Speaker 3>The neololite spectrum is more diverse and intriguing than one

2:34:23.080 --> 2:34:26.600
<v Speaker 3>might imagine. While it may not have crystallized into a

2:34:26.720 --> 2:34:30.560
<v Speaker 3>more formal movement with clear representatives, as is expected of

2:34:30.600 --> 2:34:34.560
<v Speaker 3>movements these days, it unites a wide array of individuals

2:34:34.600 --> 2:34:38.400
<v Speaker 3>to share common awakening from the allure of unchecked technology

2:34:38.879 --> 2:34:44.880
<v Speaker 3>and resist various aspects of the industrial monoculture. Perhaps of

2:34:44.920 --> 2:34:47.440
<v Speaker 3>the connections between these separate groups strengthen we'd see a

2:34:47.480 --> 2:34:52.280
<v Speaker 3>greater recognition of the interconnected challenges in this grand tapestry

2:34:52.320 --> 2:34:55.560
<v Speaker 3>of all evolving world. But the thing is to address

2:34:55.600 --> 2:34:58.520
<v Speaker 3>the challenges posed by these technologies. It's not enough to

2:34:58.560 --> 2:35:03.000
<v Speaker 3>merely regulate orti vidual items like pesticides or nuclear weapons.

2:35:03.879 --> 2:35:06.160
<v Speaker 3>What's required is a profound shift in our thinking about

2:35:06.240 --> 2:35:10.600
<v Speaker 3>humanity and in our relationship to life itself. We need

2:35:10.680 --> 2:35:14.560
<v Speaker 3>to craft a new worldview that paves the way for

2:35:14.640 --> 2:35:17.359
<v Speaker 3>a different way of interacting with our world, our technologies,

2:35:17.680 --> 2:35:21.720
<v Speaker 3>and our felt human beings. We need to reconsider our

2:35:21.800 --> 2:35:23.680
<v Speaker 3>place in the ground scheme of things and to imagine

2:35:23.720 --> 2:35:28.000
<v Speaker 3>a world where harmony and balance take precedence of predomination

2:35:28.160 --> 2:35:33.440
<v Speaker 3>and control. In notes toward a Neulrite Manifesto written in

2:35:33.520 --> 2:35:37.840
<v Speaker 3>nineteen ninety, also by Chelli's Clendoning. The author outlines three

2:35:38.120 --> 2:35:42.240
<v Speaker 3>core principles and four prescriptions that could drive the Neulrite movement.

2:35:43.120 --> 2:35:45.880
<v Speaker 3>In terms of principles, firstly, and I suppose most essentially

2:35:45.920 --> 2:35:52.080
<v Speaker 3>to addressing the misconception, Neulorites are not anti technology. Actually

2:35:52.080 --> 2:35:56.160
<v Speaker 3>says technology is intrinsic to human creativity and culture. But

2:35:56.280 --> 2:35:58.400
<v Speaker 3>what they oppose are the kinds of technologies that are

2:35:58.480 --> 2:36:03.720
<v Speaker 3>at root destructive of human lives and communities. The next

2:36:03.760 --> 2:36:09.200
<v Speaker 3>principle two is that all technologies are political. Quote a

2:36:09.280 --> 2:36:13.360
<v Speaker 3>social critic Gerrymander rights in four argumented Elimination of Television,

2:36:14.000 --> 2:36:15.880
<v Speaker 3>a book I read some years ago, by the way

2:36:15.920 --> 2:36:20.200
<v Speaker 3>that a premedians revisit. But continuing the quote, technologies are

2:36:20.280 --> 2:36:22.560
<v Speaker 3>not neutral tools that can be used for good or

2:36:22.640 --> 2:36:25.640
<v Speaker 3>evil dependent on who uses them. They are entities that

2:36:25.720 --> 2:36:29.320
<v Speaker 3>have been consciously structured to reflect and serve specific, powerful

2:36:29.360 --> 2:36:33.720
<v Speaker 3>interests in specific historical situations. The technology is created by

2:36:33.760 --> 2:36:37.080
<v Speaker 3>mass technological society. Are those that serve the perpetuation of

2:36:37.160 --> 2:36:39.920
<v Speaker 3>mass technological society. They tend to be structured for short

2:36:39.959 --> 2:36:44.760
<v Speaker 3>term efficiency ease of production, distribution, marketing and profit potential,

2:36:45.320 --> 2:36:48.240
<v Speaker 3>or for warmaking. As a result, they tend to create

2:36:48.320 --> 2:36:51.879
<v Speaker 3>rigid social systems and institutions that people do not understand

2:36:52.400 --> 2:36:57.600
<v Speaker 3>and cannot change or control. The last principle three is

2:36:57.640 --> 2:37:02.520
<v Speaker 3>that the poisonal view of technology is dangers limited. Glendoning

2:37:02.680 --> 2:37:05.880
<v Speaker 3>argues that the often hood message, but I couldn't live

2:37:05.959 --> 2:37:10.000
<v Speaker 3>without my word processor, because of course she's writing this,

2:37:10.400 --> 2:37:12.000
<v Speaker 3>you know, years and years ago.

2:37:12.200 --> 2:37:15.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, I have my word my automatic typewriter.

2:37:16.360 --> 2:37:19.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. But this oftenhood message that I couldn't live up

2:37:19.800 --> 2:37:21.880
<v Speaker 3>my word processor, and I guess you could substitute that

2:37:22.000 --> 2:37:27.679
<v Speaker 3>for smartphone or computer. That message denies the wider consequences

2:37:27.720 --> 2:37:31.600
<v Speaker 3>of widespread use of computers, for example, the toxic contamination

2:37:31.680 --> 2:37:35.199
<v Speaker 3>of workers electronic plants, or the certifying of corporate power

2:37:35.280 --> 2:37:39.600
<v Speaker 3>through exclusive access to new information and databases. As Manda

2:37:39.879 --> 2:37:44.840
<v Speaker 3>points out, producers and disseminators of technologies tend to introduce

2:37:44.879 --> 2:37:50.240
<v Speaker 3>their creations and upbeat utopian terms. You know, pesticides will

2:37:50.280 --> 2:37:53.480
<v Speaker 3>increase yields to feed a hungry planet, nuclear energy will

2:37:53.480 --> 2:37:56.960
<v Speaker 3>be too deep, too cheap to meter, et cetera. And

2:37:57.080 --> 2:37:58.440
<v Speaker 3>of course you know you have to throw in that

2:37:59.600 --> 2:38:04.160
<v Speaker 3>that potshot at nuclear energy. It's very very twentieth century

2:38:04.240 --> 2:38:10.039
<v Speaker 3>coded text. Yeah, however, quote learning to critique technology demands

2:38:10.080 --> 2:38:14.680
<v Speaker 3>fully examining its sociological context, economic gratifications, and political meanings.

2:38:15.320 --> 2:38:17.840
<v Speaker 3>It involves asking not just what is gained, for what

2:38:18.000 --> 2:38:20.360
<v Speaker 3>is lost and by whom. It involves looking at the

2:38:20.400 --> 2:38:23.040
<v Speaker 3>instruct introduction of technologies from the perspective not only a

2:38:23.080 --> 2:38:25.959
<v Speaker 3>few in use, but of the impact in other living beings,

2:38:26.360 --> 2:38:32.200
<v Speaker 3>natural systems, and the environment. And then there's the neolodide program,

2:38:32.320 --> 2:38:34.720
<v Speaker 3>which loses me a bit at some points, even where

2:38:34.720 --> 2:38:38.240
<v Speaker 3>I may agree with some of their principles, and you know,

2:38:38.680 --> 2:38:41.160
<v Speaker 3>you might say that's a sign of my propagandized mind

2:38:41.280 --> 2:38:45.440
<v Speaker 3>in our technological society. But I'll leave you to be

2:38:45.480 --> 2:38:51.080
<v Speaker 3>the judge of that. Here's what Glendening explicitly proposes one

2:38:51.800 --> 2:38:54.040
<v Speaker 3>as I moved toward dealing with the consequences of modern

2:38:54.080 --> 2:38:57.360
<v Speaker 3>technologies and preventing further destruction of life, the New Lotte

2:38:57.360 --> 2:39:01.879
<v Speaker 3>movement should favor the dismantling of nuclear technology, chemical technologies,

2:39:02.320 --> 2:39:10.440
<v Speaker 3>genetic engineering technologies, television, electuro wagnetic technologies, and computer technologies, which,

2:39:10.520 --> 2:39:13.440
<v Speaker 3>according to them, you know, according to her course, disease

2:39:13.480 --> 2:39:17.520
<v Speaker 3>and death, create dangerous me to gens in case of television,

2:39:17.640 --> 2:39:23.720
<v Speaker 3>functions as a centralized mind, controlling force, poisons the environment,

2:39:23.800 --> 2:39:25.360
<v Speaker 3>all these different things. And I mean I gets some

2:39:25.400 --> 2:39:27.960
<v Speaker 3>of the justifications for some of these technologies, right, yeah,

2:39:28.320 --> 2:39:34.960
<v Speaker 3>of course, disease, death, you know, pollution, social issues, right yeah,

2:39:35.080 --> 2:39:37.119
<v Speaker 3>But I at same time, I don't believe in through

2:39:37.160 --> 2:39:40.400
<v Speaker 3>and out entire sciences and technologies. Who will see like that,

2:39:40.560 --> 2:39:43.440
<v Speaker 3>you know, it feels like it feels like a very

2:39:43.720 --> 2:39:46.200
<v Speaker 3>myopic view being presented on some of these texts.

2:39:46.800 --> 2:39:50.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean, I guess this was before really the

2:39:50.160 --> 2:39:54.000
<v Speaker 4>decentralization of some of the means of dissemination of information

2:39:54.400 --> 2:39:57.320
<v Speaker 4>that happened kind of later on with things like some

2:39:57.480 --> 2:39:59.000
<v Speaker 4>parts of the Internet. I don't want to say by

2:39:59.040 --> 2:40:02.880
<v Speaker 4>any means of the Internet decentralized, but at least the

2:40:03.000 --> 2:40:06.080
<v Speaker 4>promise of that which we occasionally see deliver as well. Right,

2:40:06.280 --> 2:40:09.480
<v Speaker 4>Like if you saw today that I was just watching

2:40:09.520 --> 2:40:12.800
<v Speaker 4>a video of the Yeppe Gay in Syria that the

2:40:12.959 --> 2:40:17.680
<v Speaker 4>people in Rojaba like talking about the importance of women

2:40:17.720 --> 2:40:22.000
<v Speaker 4>in the revolution in Myanmar, and like just occasionally the

2:40:22.120 --> 2:40:24.640
<v Speaker 4>internet or technology gives us the thing they were supposed

2:40:24.640 --> 2:40:29.000
<v Speaker 4>to give us this ability to connect without barriers. Absolutely,

2:40:30.280 --> 2:40:33.080
<v Speaker 4>but yeah, like you said that that's the computer or

2:40:33.120 --> 2:40:34.920
<v Speaker 4>the cell phone and that was recorded on or whatever

2:40:35.000 --> 2:40:39.280
<v Speaker 4>happened because somebody, somebody in the congo and in horrific

2:40:39.360 --> 2:40:43.039
<v Speaker 4>conditions and the DC had to dig out some rare

2:40:43.080 --> 2:40:45.520
<v Speaker 4>earth chemical and then got paid next to nothing and

2:40:46.440 --> 2:40:50.400
<v Speaker 4>their ancestral homeland was ruined by some rabid company that

2:40:50.640 --> 2:40:52.680
<v Speaker 4>makes billions of dollars and pays people like shit.

2:40:53.840 --> 2:40:57.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, So, I mean, I absolutely agree that the

2:40:57.400 --> 2:41:01.760
<v Speaker 3>supply side of a lot of these technologies to change drastically,

2:41:02.520 --> 2:41:04.720
<v Speaker 3>and also the you know, just the supply chain as

2:41:04.720 --> 2:41:07.800
<v Speaker 3>a whole, you know, from the raw materials to the

2:41:07.840 --> 2:41:11.560
<v Speaker 3>finished product and how it gets to us. I mean,

2:41:11.640 --> 2:41:14.400
<v Speaker 3>that might mean no more of certain technologies, or it

2:41:14.480 --> 2:41:17.240
<v Speaker 3>might mean a different approach, but it really remains to

2:41:17.280 --> 2:41:21.600
<v Speaker 3>be seen. We really haven't tried other approaches because you know,

2:41:21.680 --> 2:41:25.360
<v Speaker 3>we live under this capitalist hegemony. The next step in

2:41:25.400 --> 2:41:29.480
<v Speaker 3>the program to the New Write movement should favor a

2:41:29.520 --> 2:41:32.760
<v Speaker 3>search for new technological forms and the creation of technologies

2:41:32.800 --> 2:41:36.640
<v Speaker 3>by the people directly involved in their use, not by scientists,

2:41:36.760 --> 2:41:40.680
<v Speaker 3>engineers and entrepreneurs who gain financially from mass production and

2:41:40.720 --> 2:41:43.280
<v Speaker 3>distribution of the inventions, and who know little about the

2:41:43.320 --> 2:41:47.119
<v Speaker 3>context in which their technologies are used. I don't necessarily

2:41:47.160 --> 2:41:49.680
<v Speaker 3>believe in, you know, splitting it down the middle like that,

2:41:49.920 --> 2:41:52.920
<v Speaker 3>as if you know, scientists and engineers are not going

2:41:52.959 --> 2:41:54.520
<v Speaker 3>to be the people that are directly involved in their use.

2:41:54.520 --> 2:41:58.080
<v Speaker 3>And in some cases that's true. But another case is,

2:41:58.879 --> 2:42:01.000
<v Speaker 3>you know, you know, people who are using the pros

2:42:01.080 --> 2:42:03.800
<v Speaker 3>sometimes the people who invented it, yeah, iterated on it

2:42:03.879 --> 2:42:04.360
<v Speaker 3>and whatnot.

2:42:04.720 --> 2:42:07.920
<v Speaker 4>Like when I think about before there were three D

2:42:08.000 --> 2:42:10.600
<v Speaker 4>printing weapons in the revolution in the amber, they were

2:42:10.640 --> 2:42:15.320
<v Speaker 4>three D printing presteses because land minds are so common there, right,

2:42:15.680 --> 2:42:17.960
<v Speaker 4>and so like for those people where the engineer is

2:42:18.000 --> 2:42:21.000
<v Speaker 4>a person whose brother or sister or non binary sibling

2:42:21.160 --> 2:42:24.120
<v Speaker 4>or what have you needs a leg and so they

2:42:24.160 --> 2:42:27.039
<v Speaker 4>have iterated or designed a leg, and like that person

2:42:27.240 --> 2:42:30.280
<v Speaker 4>is very much both like benefiting from the end use

2:42:30.480 --> 2:42:32.840
<v Speaker 4>and doing the engineering exactly.

2:42:33.120 --> 2:42:35.200
<v Speaker 3>I get this is kind of like, you know, a

2:42:35.320 --> 2:42:38.840
<v Speaker 3>screed against the Ivory tower types. But yes, I don't

2:42:38.879 --> 2:42:42.560
<v Speaker 3>think that reflects on you know, all of the or

2:42:42.600 --> 2:42:46.360
<v Speaker 3>even most of the scientists and engineers. A lot of

2:42:46.440 --> 2:42:51.400
<v Speaker 3>engineers on the ground a lot of you know, barefoot scientists,

2:42:52.400 --> 2:42:53.400
<v Speaker 3>as the expression is.

2:42:53.920 --> 2:42:56.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, Nick, when we talk about things like permaculture

2:42:57.080 --> 2:42:59.520
<v Speaker 4>or the things we talked about before, like, some of

2:42:59.600 --> 2:43:02.000
<v Speaker 4>that is a science too, right. We have a thesis

2:43:02.040 --> 2:43:03.880
<v Speaker 4>and we test it and we prove it, and then

2:43:04.120 --> 2:43:06.920
<v Speaker 4>we keep iterating on it like it's a hypothesis, I

2:43:06.959 --> 2:43:09.880
<v Speaker 4>should say, Like, and that's certainly a science which is

2:43:09.959 --> 2:43:13.000
<v Speaker 4>rooted in a place and people and respect for the environment.

2:43:13.879 --> 2:43:18.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, the manifesto goes a little bit further

2:43:18.480 --> 2:43:21.640
<v Speaker 3>on this particular point. You know, she's advocating for the

2:43:21.680 --> 2:43:24.080
<v Speaker 3>creation of technologies that are of a scale and structure

2:43:24.120 --> 2:43:26.360
<v Speaker 3>that makes them understandable to the people who use them

2:43:26.400 --> 2:43:29.200
<v Speaker 3>and are affected by them. She's advocating for the creation

2:43:29.240 --> 2:43:31.599
<v Speaker 3>of technology is built with a high degree of flexibility,

2:43:32.000 --> 2:43:33.640
<v Speaker 3>so that you do want to impose a rigid and

2:43:33.720 --> 2:43:36.880
<v Speaker 3>irrasible imprint on their users. And she's advocating for the

2:43:36.920 --> 2:43:40.840
<v Speaker 3>creation technologies are foster independence from technological addiction and promise

2:43:40.879 --> 2:43:47.720
<v Speaker 3>political freedom, economic justice, and ecological balance. They are I can't.

2:43:47.520 --> 2:43:50.280
<v Speaker 4>Disagree, you know, Yeah, I know, I'm down with that.

2:43:51.160 --> 2:43:56.200
<v Speaker 3>I'm absolutely down with advocating for that. Yeah, the third

2:43:56.240 --> 2:44:00.560
<v Speaker 3>point in the program, She says, we feel creation of

2:44:00.600 --> 2:44:06.280
<v Speaker 3>technologies in which politics, morality, ecology, and technics are merged

2:44:06.320 --> 2:44:09.800
<v Speaker 3>for the benefits of life on Earth. For example, community

2:44:09.840 --> 2:44:14.560
<v Speaker 3>based energy sources utilizing solar, wind and waters technologies, organic

2:44:14.760 --> 2:44:20.160
<v Speaker 3>biological technologies and agriculture, engineering, architecture, art, medicine, transportation and defense,

2:44:20.879 --> 2:44:26.040
<v Speaker 3>conflict resolution technologies which emphasize cooperation, understanding, and continuity of relationship.

2:44:26.480 --> 2:44:31.280
<v Speaker 3>And decentralized social technologies which encourage participation, responsibility, and empowerment.

2:44:32.840 --> 2:44:36.840
<v Speaker 3>Now you know, I'm the solar punk guy. I'm the

2:44:37.360 --> 2:44:41.360
<v Speaker 3>you know, the anarchists on YouTube. Whatever he got me

2:44:41.440 --> 2:44:45.039
<v Speaker 3>on these. You know, I agree with all of these obviously,

2:44:45.840 --> 2:44:48.440
<v Speaker 3>But what I find interest in is that this list

2:44:49.200 --> 2:44:53.120
<v Speaker 3>seems to ignore how, you know, the technology is being

2:44:53.160 --> 2:44:57.120
<v Speaker 3>advocated here are linked to the previous technologies that would

2:44:57.160 --> 2:45:00.920
<v Speaker 3>just be in decride. You know, like in one section

2:45:01.160 --> 2:45:04.040
<v Speaker 3>she's talking about, you know, a fan of these chemical technologies,

2:45:05.000 --> 2:45:09.200
<v Speaker 3>but chemistry is an inevitable component of the biological technology

2:45:09.280 --> 2:45:12.440
<v Speaker 3>such you're advocating for. Are you saying that you don't

2:45:12.480 --> 2:45:17.199
<v Speaker 3>like computer technologies, But when you're talking about like solar

2:45:17.320 --> 2:45:19.880
<v Speaker 3>wind and water energy, which to be fair can be

2:45:19.959 --> 2:45:24.000
<v Speaker 3>low tech too. Yeah, there is usually some involvement of

2:45:24.120 --> 2:45:30.400
<v Speaker 3>a computer in those energy systems. So I think it's

2:45:30.440 --> 2:45:36.840
<v Speaker 3>you know, sight inconsistency there. But I don't know, what

2:45:36.879 --> 2:45:37.280
<v Speaker 3>do you think?

2:45:37.720 --> 2:45:42.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think yeah, like we can't sort of yeah, yeah,

2:45:43.080 --> 2:45:45.400
<v Speaker 4>some times we can't say that to like you say,

2:45:45.440 --> 2:45:48.279
<v Speaker 4>to a degree, all of these systems will require a technology,

2:45:48.680 --> 2:45:51.520
<v Speaker 4>and like I suppose we start to get into like

2:45:51.600 --> 2:45:54.000
<v Speaker 4>what is the technology right before we get too far,

2:45:54.680 --> 2:45:58.120
<v Speaker 4>and then I think that's probably a question worth asking.

2:45:58.520 --> 2:46:01.600
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, I think it's easy to throw to maybe

2:46:01.600 --> 2:46:02.680
<v Speaker 4>out of bar water, I suppose.

2:46:03.760 --> 2:46:09.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I mean, like, like Momford said, technology is more

2:46:09.160 --> 2:46:14.039
<v Speaker 3>than just physical objects, it's also techniques of operation organizations

2:46:15.320 --> 2:46:16.439
<v Speaker 3>that reflects a worldview.

2:46:17.600 --> 2:46:20.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, so I suppose, as you said before, right,

2:46:21.080 --> 2:46:24.680
<v Speaker 4>Like it's what I think about often, it's like what

2:46:24.800 --> 2:46:26.520
<v Speaker 4>we need to change is the way we see the world,

2:46:27.400 --> 2:46:28.760
<v Speaker 4>and then the other stuff.

2:46:29.120 --> 2:46:31.720
<v Speaker 3>Well we can change in a midbe will fall into place.

2:46:32.200 --> 2:46:36.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think again, I'm gonna get back. So I

2:46:36.320 --> 2:46:38.680
<v Speaker 4>was just in Rojabo for the last few weeks. But

2:46:40.720 --> 2:46:42.840
<v Speaker 4>one of the things that I heard from everyone there,

2:46:42.920 --> 2:46:44.800
<v Speaker 4>right from like and not just from like people in

2:46:44.840 --> 2:46:48.360
<v Speaker 4>the women's movement, but also from like random guy in

2:46:48.440 --> 2:46:52.560
<v Speaker 4>the market who I'm having tea with, is like that

2:46:52.720 --> 2:46:56.160
<v Speaker 4>this idea that we can't can't decolonize the country until

2:46:56.160 --> 2:46:58.560
<v Speaker 4>we declonize our family, and the notion that like women

2:46:58.640 --> 2:47:03.120
<v Speaker 4>were the first colonized group of people, which and so

2:47:03.320 --> 2:47:05.360
<v Speaker 4>like if we can't do gender equality, what you know,

2:47:05.440 --> 2:47:07.480
<v Speaker 4>what are we doing what we can't where where we

2:47:07.560 --> 2:47:10.280
<v Speaker 4>find this revolution to liberate our country when we can't

2:47:10.320 --> 2:47:16.520
<v Speaker 4>liberate our spouse, daughter or what have you. So definitely, yeah,

2:47:16.600 --> 2:47:18.720
<v Speaker 4>it's just it's a very powerful I know it's not

2:47:18.879 --> 2:47:22.880
<v Speaker 4>like as fun as taking a sledgehammer to a cotton mill,

2:47:23.240 --> 2:47:29.480
<v Speaker 4>but like if we if we replicate that kind of

2:47:29.600 --> 2:47:34.440
<v Speaker 4>extractive extractive capitalism is what makes the supply side of

2:47:34.480 --> 2:47:36.879
<v Speaker 4>these things so bad, and it's what also leads us

2:47:36.920 --> 2:47:38.400
<v Speaker 4>to think about using them in a way that can

2:47:38.480 --> 2:47:43.720
<v Speaker 4>extract the most value from the worker. So I would

2:47:43.720 --> 2:47:47.800
<v Speaker 4>absolutely say that you know, the break the frame in

2:47:47.879 --> 2:47:48.280
<v Speaker 4>your mind.

2:47:48.400 --> 2:47:53.360
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, that's a good point. And it's funny,

2:47:53.360 --> 2:47:55.640
<v Speaker 3>as you mentioned, you know, as going to be as

2:47:55.680 --> 2:47:59.039
<v Speaker 3>fun as you know, smashing a cotton a cotton mill

2:47:59.120 --> 2:48:01.920
<v Speaker 3>or whatever. It made me think that you know, perhaps

2:48:02.000 --> 2:48:06.760
<v Speaker 3>in a revolutionary society. In guess society, you may see

2:48:08.400 --> 2:48:11.840
<v Speaker 3>therapeutic rage rooms where people can smash out some of

2:48:11.879 --> 2:48:17.480
<v Speaker 3>their last frustrations against the capitalist system. Yeah, consequences they

2:48:17.480 --> 2:48:18.440
<v Speaker 3>have left for them to fix.

2:48:19.400 --> 2:48:22.039
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, to get that out before you you take

2:48:22.080 --> 2:48:22.760
<v Speaker 4>that out on other.

2:48:23.040 --> 2:48:24.800
<v Speaker 3>Go and rewild or something. You know, you have to

2:48:25.200 --> 2:48:26.400
<v Speaker 3>get that energy outfit.

2:48:26.600 --> 2:48:28.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, remove the toxicity.

2:48:28.920 --> 2:48:29.360
<v Speaker 10>I like that.

2:48:30.840 --> 2:48:33.160
<v Speaker 4>Place where you can take that anger out.

2:48:34.360 --> 2:48:39.920
<v Speaker 3>Right. So finally, the fourth and final element of the program,

2:48:41.080 --> 2:48:43.400
<v Speaker 3>she says that we favor the development of a life

2:48:43.480 --> 2:48:48.080
<v Speaker 3>enhancing worldview in Western technological societies. We open in still

2:48:48.080 --> 2:48:50.560
<v Speaker 3>a perception of life, death, and human potential, and technological

2:48:50.600 --> 2:48:53.560
<v Speaker 3>societies they will integrate the human need for creative expression,

2:48:53.840 --> 2:48:57.040
<v Speaker 3>spiritual experience in community with the capacity for rational thought

2:48:57.080 --> 2:48:59.879
<v Speaker 3>and functionality. We perceive the human role not as them

2:49:00.240 --> 2:49:03.160
<v Speaker 3>of other species and planetary biology, but as integrated to

2:49:03.240 --> 2:49:06.200
<v Speaker 3>the natural world with appreciation for the sacredness of all life.

2:49:06.720 --> 2:49:09.320
<v Speaker 3>We foresee a sustainable future of humanity if and when

2:49:09.640 --> 2:49:13.600
<v Speaker 3>Western technological societies restructure their mechanistic projections and foster the

2:49:13.640 --> 2:49:17.320
<v Speaker 3>creation of machines, techniques, and social organizations to respect both

2:49:17.640 --> 2:49:21.720
<v Speaker 3>human dignity and the nature's wholeness, and progressing towards such

2:49:21.720 --> 2:49:24.240
<v Speaker 3>a transition. We are aware that we have nothing to

2:49:24.360 --> 2:49:26.840
<v Speaker 3>lose except a way of living that leads the destruction

2:49:27.120 --> 2:49:32.240
<v Speaker 3>of all life. We have a world to gain. Quote

2:49:33.280 --> 2:49:35.200
<v Speaker 3>word that was.

2:49:36.440 --> 2:49:39.879
<v Speaker 4>That was a nice, nice, a nice, very rhetorical flare

2:49:39.920 --> 2:49:40.320
<v Speaker 4>at the end.

2:49:41.160 --> 2:49:41.920
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, that's.

2:49:45.640 --> 2:49:49.400
<v Speaker 3>I mean, in my opinion, coming to a close here,

2:49:50.240 --> 2:49:55.720
<v Speaker 3>the neololites hits and a miss. They hit a lot

2:49:55.760 --> 2:49:58.240
<v Speaker 3>more than they miss. There's things I have some slight

2:49:58.320 --> 2:50:01.400
<v Speaker 3>quibbles with, and I really, of course I have to

2:50:01.440 --> 2:50:04.560
<v Speaker 3>give them credit for doing a lot more to investigate

2:50:04.680 --> 2:50:08.520
<v Speaker 3>and confront technology than the vast majority of people. I mean,

2:50:08.520 --> 2:50:12.720
<v Speaker 3>they're asking the right questions, questions that you don't see

2:50:12.800 --> 2:50:14.680
<v Speaker 3>being asked at all. You know, you see you get

2:50:14.680 --> 2:50:19.080
<v Speaker 3>these announcements for new technologies, new innovations, new techniques, new whatever.

2:50:19.760 --> 2:50:22.240
<v Speaker 3>It's always just like you know, marketing and advertising, and

2:50:22.320 --> 2:50:27.080
<v Speaker 3>then it's just implemented. There's no say of people, there's

2:50:27.120 --> 2:50:30.240
<v Speaker 3>no raising questions about what are the consequences of this?

2:50:30.400 --> 2:50:32.240
<v Speaker 3>Be ten years on the line, twenty years on the line,

2:50:32.240 --> 2:50:34.080
<v Speaker 3>fifty years on the line, hundred years on the line,

2:50:34.080 --> 2:50:37.039
<v Speaker 3>you know. Yeah, yeah, and the lessons of letters are

2:50:37.120 --> 2:50:41.240
<v Speaker 3>very clear. Technology should serve humanity, not the other way around.

2:50:43.280 --> 2:50:46.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. I think that's that's a key take home, Like, Yeah,

2:50:46.959 --> 2:50:49.200
<v Speaker 4>it's there to make our lives better. We don't have

2:50:49.320 --> 2:50:52.080
<v Speaker 4>to not to allow us lands more exploited.

2:50:53.160 --> 2:50:58.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, landscape is vast and it's constantly evolving. But the

2:50:58.280 --> 2:51:01.400
<v Speaker 3>principles of the lights and the vision of contiviual tools,

2:51:02.080 --> 2:51:05.480
<v Speaker 3>I think they can offer us some guide once and

2:51:05.680 --> 2:51:08.440
<v Speaker 3>I hope you'll be able to take that away from

2:51:08.879 --> 2:51:12.039
<v Speaker 3>this two parts. Yeah, and that's all I have for today.

2:51:12.520 --> 2:51:12.720
<v Speaker 10>Great.

2:51:12.760 --> 2:51:17.039
<v Speaker 3>Thanks, follow me on YouTube, Andraism support and Petreon, slash

2:51:17.120 --> 2:51:21.280
<v Speaker 3>sent Drew, Thanks James for being parts of this and

2:51:21.400 --> 2:51:21.720
<v Speaker 3>I thank you.

2:51:21.879 --> 2:51:22.840
<v Speaker 4>That was good. I enjoyed it.

2:51:23.480 --> 2:51:24.760
<v Speaker 3>This has been It could happen here.

2:51:25.400 --> 2:51:25.680
<v Speaker 12>Peace.

2:51:29.240 --> 2:51:29.400
<v Speaker 10>Hey.

2:51:29.560 --> 2:51:32.640
<v Speaker 1>We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from

2:51:32.680 --> 2:51:34.359
<v Speaker 1>now until the heat death of the universe.

2:51:34.959 --> 2:51:37.320
<v Speaker 5>It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

2:51:37.560 --> 2:51:40.200
<v Speaker 5>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

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<v Speaker 5>You can find sources for it could happen here. Updated

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<v Speaker 5>monthly at cool zonemedia dot com, slash sources. Thanks for listening,