Speaker 1: Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership
Speaker 1: with Resent Choice Media.
Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Well come, well come, well come, welcome.
Speaker 1: Hey, fam, We hope you had an amazing Christmas and
Speaker 1: also happy Kwansa and just happy holidays, but whatever you're
Speaker 1: celebrating during this time of year. For this week's episode,
Speaker 1: we're going to do something a little different. We're broadcasting
Speaker 1: a very special holiday segment and a couple of our
Speaker 1: favorite mini pods from throughout the year that will help
Speaker 1: you get through these times that can be challenging for
Speaker 1: some of you for many reasons. Maybe you've lost somebody,
Speaker 1: maybe you're going through a breakup. Maybe you have political
Speaker 1: strife and disagreement in your family, maybe you have a
Speaker 1: beef with friends. Whatever you're going through, you are welcome
Speaker 1: home here. You have a seat at our table always,
Speaker 1: and so we just wanted to get into a little
Speaker 1: conversation and talk about how to manage those challenging times
Speaker 1: and take a look back at some of our favorite
Speaker 1: conversations from the year.
Speaker 3: So pull up a chair and join us.
Speaker 1: All right, I know, I'll be honest. For me, the
Speaker 1: holidays are definitely challenging, but for a lot of people.
Speaker 1: It's a very joyful times. I don't want to act
Speaker 1: like it's all doom and gloom for everybody. This year
Speaker 1: maybe felt a little different for a lot of people.
Speaker 1: But Andrew, what about you?
Speaker 3: Are you? You have little ones?
Speaker 4: Though?
Speaker 1: I feel like little ones always bring an element of
Speaker 1: joy to the holidays.
Speaker 5: Yeah, bring an element of something. I broke empty wallet,
Speaker 5: you know, you know the exactly except I'm calling all
Speaker 5: three of them by name, likely the wrong ones, but anyway,
Speaker 5: you know, the holidays absolutely shifted for me with and
Speaker 5: I think Jay would reflect the same with kids, because
Speaker 5: it went from being about what I was going to
Speaker 5: get her and what she was going to get me,
Speaker 5: and what we were getting our parents and siblings and whatnot,
Speaker 5: to like, how do we make this very special for
Speaker 5: the kids? I mean, we've created our own set of
Speaker 5: traditions around it, right like the day after Thanksgiving, the
Speaker 5: kids are like on me Ddy, the tree, the lights,
Speaker 5: the you know, and we spend all day doing that.
Speaker 5: And they are as much a part of it as
Speaker 5: as I am. In fact, they're more a part of it,
Speaker 5: and they take great pride in that. So so much
Speaker 5: of it for our household has shifted to be you know,
Speaker 5: the kids centerfold. But you know I'd be lying if
Speaker 5: I didn't, you know, also say that, you know, I
Speaker 5: have real strong thoughts about my family members who aren't
Speaker 5: with us, My brother Eric, who passed away actually the
Speaker 5: year that my twins were born in a in an accident,
Speaker 5: my father who passed away, you know, a month and
Speaker 5: a half after my loss, and the and the governor's race,
Speaker 5: and I have you know, regrets that are visited upon
Speaker 5: me during that time. I also am challenged typically as
Speaker 5: we approach the new year around like taking stock of
Speaker 5: what I did the last year, and like, am I
Speaker 5: proud of it? Am I let down by it? Did
Speaker 5: I let myself down? Other people around me let down?
Speaker 5: Am I inspired by it? Did I do so much
Speaker 5: that I think? How am I going to top this
Speaker 5: in the coming year? Actually, I have to say I'm
Speaker 5: probably more triggered about the new year than I am
Speaker 5: about you know, the sort of Christmas kwansa. You know,
Speaker 5: you know that part of the season, that part for
Speaker 5: me is more joyous the beginning. But as I start
Speaker 5: to turn toward the next year, and because I am
Speaker 5: very self critical, almost always my reflection is about how
Speaker 5: I want to do more and better and really get
Speaker 5: this thing done. It really hit that goal, really organize
Speaker 5: myself differently, really pay attention to myself, or really pay
Speaker 5: attention to my partner. That that gives me a lot
Speaker 5: of strain, and it's probably why I don't make resolutions anymore.
Speaker 5: Jay approaches the new year with a theme of like,
Speaker 5: you want to center myself more or something like that.
Speaker 5: I find those a little challenging and I absolutely find,
Speaker 5: you know, the resolutions like just untenable for me, and
Speaker 5: it puts me in a real kind of awkward state.
Speaker 5: In fact, almost every New Year's evens sort of weird.
Speaker 5: I'm either trying to get mad at something, trying to
Speaker 5: get upset about something as an excuse for not having
Speaker 5: to deepen into like what I'm really afraid and terrified of,
Speaker 5: which is like a reflection and then a projecting forward
Speaker 5: about how to be better, or.
Speaker 6: The police is coming down the street right now for somebody.
Speaker 5: Oh lord, not in my house.
Speaker 6: Ten years always anyway, I've never heard it before.
Speaker 3: The whole podcast has been going.
Speaker 4: I just heard it now. Maybe Joe Biden is going
Speaker 4: to free some people. But let us, let us pray
Speaker 4: I am. You know, the holidays shifted for me. My
Speaker 4: grandmother it was one hundred and five and her birthday
Speaker 4: is on Christmas and she passed away a couple of
Speaker 4: years ago. And my mom last year said she wanted
Speaker 4: to have a really big Christmas because she was just
Speaker 4: on the other side of a triple negative breast cancer diagnosis,
Speaker 4: and so we did a huge Christmas.
Speaker 6: I was exhausted for three days. I didn't want.
Speaker 4: To feed her and everything. We cook so much food
Speaker 4: and order to pajamas for sixty five people. It was fun,
Speaker 4: but it was a lot. And so this year, with
Speaker 4: my mom wrestling with cancer again, you know, I've just
Speaker 4: been talking to her about, you know, what she wants
Speaker 4: to do, and she's just like, I don't know.
Speaker 6: So we're gonna do something.
Speaker 4: I know this is after Christmas, but just being full disclosure,
Speaker 4: we record this before Christmas because we weren't gonna give
Speaker 4: that to y'all too. But I just, you know, I'm
Speaker 4: wrestling with what we're gonna do and wanting to make
Speaker 4: sure that it's her way, you know. But it is hard,
Speaker 4: and I think some of it is like aging Tip
Speaker 4: was talking about little ones. I wanted I want little ones,
Speaker 4: and to not have them still to be doing stuff
Speaker 4: for Christmas is hard. But I'm so grateful for the
Speaker 4: kids who are in my life and for the many
Speaker 4: ways that you all make this holiday special.
Speaker 6: And it's just time to.
Speaker 4: Celebrate in my religion, my my faith, the coming of
Speaker 4: the save y'all, and so I'm always happy about that.
Speaker 4: Christmas Carols is going, lights getting put up, trees getting
Speaker 4: put up.
Speaker 6: You guys. I ordered a black tree. I love it.
Speaker 6: I was very here.
Speaker 4: Being black everything black. IM wear black uniform instead of gene.
Speaker 4: I'm just I'm feeling real black right now. So I
Speaker 4: even got a black tree with black ornaments. It's white lights,
Speaker 4: but it's all black everything on that damn tree.
Speaker 5: I love that.
Speaker 6: I don't know what that had to do with tips question,
Speaker 6: but I felt like that was a good time to
Speaker 6: tell you I got with the.
Speaker 5: Question, are y'all a white are y'all white lights or
Speaker 5: a colored lights?
Speaker 1: I have no tree in my house. I used to
Speaker 1: get a real tree and I would have my friend Mail.
Speaker 1: He would help me carrying my tree up and decorate.
Speaker 1: And then I'm like, why am I doing this?
Speaker 6: Every year?
Speaker 3: I got pines all over my floor and I got a.
Speaker 6: Clean im not doing it.
Speaker 3: It does, but it just became too much work.
Speaker 6: Right, So now I don't decree water so the pine
Speaker 6: needles don't fall as much.
Speaker 1: No, they hurt, yeah, but even carrying it in and
Speaker 1: out and it's just too much. And it's like I
Speaker 1: don't have kids, Like why am I doing this? So
Speaker 1: I really don't do any of the Christmas Day is
Speaker 1: the day where I can binge, watch whatever I want.
Speaker 1: I don't have the expectation that I got to respond
Speaker 1: to somebody's text. You know, I hate being on my phone,
Speaker 1: So it's just a day of relaxation and relief for me.
Speaker 1: I think the sadness comes from there was a time
Speaker 1: where I was young and innocent to everything, and I
Speaker 1: was like surrounded by family and doing things, and I
Speaker 1: think that Christmas magic kind of left me and lost
Speaker 1: with my Maybe I was around eleven or twelve when
Speaker 1: things just happening in my family and it just didn't
Speaker 1: feel right, you know, it didn't feel Christmas anymore. And
Speaker 1: so I entered adulthood way before I was an actual adult.
Speaker 1: And of course you have all these I can go
Speaker 1: anywhere I want on Christmas, I have so many invitations,
Speaker 1: but it's like, you know, I'm just gonna take the
Speaker 1: day and chill. And sometimes I'll stop by people's house
Speaker 1: and get a plate, but I really just binge, watch
Speaker 1: movies and relax. So I get that there's some heavy
Speaker 1: It could be heaviness to be by yourself. It could
Speaker 1: be heaviness to be around people. I protect my peace.
Speaker 1: That is the mode I'm in. I'm instituting boundaries and
Speaker 1: protecting my peace and being by myself feels right. When
Speaker 1: I say by myself, I mean like I'm not with
Speaker 1: my family.
Speaker 3: You know, you know I'm not.
Speaker 5: Family.
Speaker 6: Yeah, when was the last time year with your family?
Speaker 1: Andrew asked, oh, oh god, how honestly?
Speaker 3: Probably the nineties?
Speaker 6: Wow? Probably.
Speaker 4: And I was just getting ready to say when you
Speaker 4: were saying, oh I binge watched it, I was, okay, Tip,
Speaker 4: you've been saying, an invitation to Seattle is about to
Speaker 4: be like you ain't got to be by yourself.
Speaker 6: But she's like, I ain't.
Speaker 5: Got to be around Florida.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I have so many people who are like
Speaker 1: come over like friends and like people. You know, your
Speaker 1: friends become your family, and it's like people who in
Speaker 1: close parks and like come over, come over. But then
Speaker 1: that becomes a thing, and like I got to pull
Speaker 1: myself together and it's like, no, I ain't got to
Speaker 1: put no braw on today. I could put on my
Speaker 1: q ol plannel pajama. I can eat whatever I want.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I order like from Joe's, like three hundred dollars
Speaker 1: of stone cold crabs, and I'm just like, you know,
Speaker 1: so I can enjoy myself in that way. But I
Speaker 1: totally empathize because I'm not. I'm not sad on Christmas
Speaker 1: and so, but I do think about people who are sad,
Speaker 1: you know, who are like I'm sad because I got
Speaker 1: to be around somebody, or I'm sad because there is
Speaker 1: there are no invitations for me, like there is nowhere
Speaker 1: for me to go, and so I honor like what
Speaker 1: those people must you know, what it must feel like
Speaker 1: for them.
Speaker 3: And they again, y'all have a home here.
Speaker 5: Well, who's cooking? Since this is home?
Speaker 3: I shook for myself.
Speaker 1: The thing I make the best when it comes to
Speaker 1: Christmas stuff is mac and cheese.
Speaker 3: I will battle anybody on mac and cheese. If you don't.
Speaker 1: Like like my mac and cheese, well you don't like truffle.
Speaker 1: You might not like it, but my mac and cheese,
Speaker 1: I like, I would have said dressing Angela, but I yes,
Speaker 1: but made it this seafood dressing. And she was telling
Speaker 1: us about it in our our group chat. So I
Speaker 1: don't even want to compete for that. I'm like, just
Speaker 1: you just make me the seafood dressing, and I do
Speaker 1: a really good apple cobbler.
Speaker 3: Those are the things that I do.
Speaker 4: I think we should have an NLP pop look because
Speaker 4: I wanted to try to show down.
Speaker 3: I'm so down.
Speaker 5: I'm to volunteer J.
Speaker 1: J cooking, But you talk about your mother in law's
Speaker 1: cooking like.
Speaker 5: My mother in law and my mother all and guess
Speaker 5: what we're hosting and both of all of them going
Speaker 5: to be here, and so everybody's making something and I eat.
Speaker 5: You know, my contribution is I do breakfast, you know,
Speaker 5: not quite the holiday and give pancakes, eggs, bacon.
Speaker 6: You make pancake better from scratch or it's out the box?
Speaker 5: Hell no from the box?
Speaker 4: Okay, well let's move right along for this, say everybody,
Speaker 4: everybody's pancakes from the box don't taste good.
Speaker 3: Nick telling us we got a racket, but good.
Speaker 5: That's why I didn't volunteer. That's why I didn't volunteer
Speaker 5: any of my dishes right.
Speaker 6: Because I still want to try them, Andrew.
Speaker 4: But before the space becomes unsafe, we want to talk
Speaker 4: to you all about is this space really safe? And
Speaker 4: that is a many probably did earlier this year, and
Speaker 4: that conversation, y'all got pretty heated, which we don't love those,
Speaker 4: but it was important for us to engage and to
Speaker 4: speak our truth. We took an opportunity to ask ourselves
Speaker 4: how do we create a safe space? Given our pledge
Speaker 4: to you all every week to make sure Native Lampod
Speaker 4: is a safe space. We hope that you enjoy this
Speaker 4: particular segment and maybe take away some tips for how
Speaker 4: you make a safe space for you and yours all.
Speaker 1: Right, Welcome home, everybody. This is Tiffany Cross, Andrew Gailam
Speaker 1: and Angela Rai and you are tuned into this week's
Speaker 1: mini pop Welcome home again. Home is not enthusiastic enough.
Speaker 6: We mean it.
Speaker 3: We mean it.
Speaker 5: I mean it. I don't have to yell to be.
Speaker 6: We mean it.
Speaker 3: Welcome home.
Speaker 1: This is our home and this is your home, and
Speaker 1: just like any family, we have disagreements sometimes, and so
Speaker 1: we thought it was important to share one of those
Speaker 1: more heated, intense discussions that we had last week with
Speaker 1: you all, and to know that right after that podcast
Speaker 1: was over, maybe ten minutes after everybody was good, we
Speaker 1: were all all back, because that's how.
Speaker 3: It works with family. Will you skip some steps, but
Speaker 3: I'll let you have it? Well, do you we can
Speaker 3: say what we want to say about it? And Andrew,
Speaker 3: do you want me to say the whole thing or
Speaker 3: do you want me to say.
Speaker 5: I'll say this is I knew that in the moment
Speaker 5: while we had already had a long day, and then
Speaker 5: of course we got to the subject of what value
Speaker 5: each of us puts on what we choose and desire
Speaker 5: to platform. And that does feel a little personal because
Speaker 5: you're now asking me what lens, what vet do I
Speaker 5: put on on on what I think we should be
Speaker 5: talking about on this show, and to the extent that
Speaker 5: we scrutinize each other's you know, vetting, it can feel
Speaker 5: real personal. So I completely got that. But I will
Speaker 5: sell you this and I think I said this Angelou tip.
Speaker 5: I can't remember who one of y'all that what I
Speaker 5: knew in that moment, although it was very tense, and
Speaker 5: and whatnot was that that we were not going to
Speaker 5: leave New York without resolution, which is not something that
Speaker 5: I would bet on in many relationships that I know of. Friendships,
Speaker 5: romantic relationships are otherwise, where you have confidence that there's
Speaker 5: enough love and respect in this space that before we
Speaker 5: leave this place we will be reconciled, even if it
Speaker 5: is we still disagree. But guess what, it was never
Speaker 5: my intention to hurt you and not I'm really sorry
Speaker 5: that you were hurt by what I say, like that
Speaker 5: backhanded thing, right fact, that's not going to happen because
Speaker 5: that's not who we are. That's not who we are
Speaker 5: at this stage in our lives. And the other thing
Speaker 5: that I appreciate about who we are and not who
Speaker 5: we are about this stage in our lives is that
Speaker 5: I don't think either of us feel like we've got
Speaker 5: to beast one another, like we got to one up end.
Speaker 5: I don't feel like I have anything to prove to
Speaker 5: either one of you. What I felt like I want
Speaker 5: to do is to show up as my best self
Speaker 5: every time, and even in those moments where I can't,
Speaker 5: I want to be able to count on the fact
Speaker 5: that y'all know me well enough that you and love
Speaker 5: me and care for me enough that you'll have grace
Speaker 5: and those moments where we can't. And so I just
Speaker 5: I know y'all have more to say about this because
Speaker 5: you had some after conversation. I just felt like, I
Speaker 5: know it's heated right now, but you know what, keep
Speaker 5: it pushing, because we're not leaving this space without feeling complete.
Speaker 6: I love that.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 4: I was feeling really defensive, and I was telling Tiff
Speaker 4: when we walked out of the room, like we were
Speaker 4: all walking down the stairs quietly we recorded some other
Speaker 4: evergreen content that honestly it might end up being trash
Speaker 4: because my energy was completely off.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't even hardly.
Speaker 6: Look at it.
Speaker 4: And I was like looking silently talking to Andrew. Feels
Speaker 4: like he was talking to which doesn't just happen when
Speaker 4: we're mad. Sometimes Andrew to preach it anywhere by himself.
Speaker 4: He'd be like, somebody gonna get it, hello, lights.
Speaker 6: But the bottom line is I literally walked out the room.
Speaker 4: I turned around ativity I was like, you heard my feelings,
Speaker 4: and I was in tears, and then she was like, don't cry,
Speaker 4: You're gonna make me cry, and that is I mean,
Speaker 4: that's it.
Speaker 3: I think that part of.
Speaker 4: I think part of what happened is, you know, a
Speaker 4: lot of times in life people aren't in tune with
Speaker 4: where they are on their journeys, and so I think
Speaker 4: I've done a lot of work from a therapy perspective
Speaker 4: to like, no, oh, this person was rising up because
Speaker 4: sixth grade Angela showed up.
Speaker 6: I was feeling bullied. Nobody was saying anything to bully me,
Speaker 6: but I was feeling it.
Speaker 4: And Tiff give it. Being the media strategy she is,
Speaker 4: she was like, oh my god, I could see that
Speaker 4: because you were literally sandwich between me and Andrew and
Speaker 4: we were on the same side. You were in the middle,
Speaker 4: so you're like squished. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 4: I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 3: So there's that.
Speaker 4: Plus I'm not sleeping where work really hard on Marilyn
Speaker 4: Moseby's petition, like there's so many things happening, I'm waking
Speaker 4: up at tiffany hours, and for any of you all
Speaker 4: that know me, no, like I'm a night out, so
Speaker 4: that means I'm sleeping like three or four hours right now.
Speaker 4: So I think I was uniquely tender from that just
Speaker 4: like when you have a little kid with if it's
Speaker 4: your child, you know, it's like, oh no, you need
Speaker 4: to go to bed. It was one of those sleepy
Speaker 4: you're not thinking clearly, you're you know, you're delirious, and
Speaker 4: I just I was feeling tender, and so I thank
Speaker 4: God for this safe podspace that we've created where I
Speaker 4: could say I'm feeling tender. And when Tiff said you
Speaker 4: think I said that, how I heard it was very
Speaker 4: different than her intention because she started feeling defensive, like
Speaker 4: how could you possibly think I was saying that? And
Speaker 4: then I was like, why would you talk to me
Speaker 4: in that tone?
Speaker 6: And then we were crying.
Speaker 4: And then Andrew missed all the tears, but I think
Speaker 4: deep down somewhere he probably had one single thug tear,
Speaker 4: because I think every now and then not the glory
Speaker 4: tier too. But I will also just say I think
Speaker 4: one of the things at that moment for me, you guys,
Speaker 4: is it made me connect to what our listeners may
Speaker 4: have felt when they talked about how we answer questions.
Speaker 4: And so the question I have today really is, in
Speaker 4: this space that we created, our pod, our unique little bubble,
Speaker 4: our safety bubble, what is our obligation to each other
Speaker 4: and then to our broader audience to hold that safe space,
Speaker 4: to ensure that people don't feel over attacked, that they
Speaker 4: don't feel like they're being put on the defensive, that
Speaker 4: they don't feel like we're trivializing what they say, and
Speaker 4: certainly that we're not doing that to each other. And
Speaker 4: then what is our responsibility when somebody may have a
Speaker 4: trigger that maybe we're not even aware of, Like, how
Speaker 4: do you navigate that space? I think this is one
Speaker 4: thing that will help us not only be a better podcast,
Speaker 4: but better people to be in relationship with, whether it's
Speaker 4: your church, community, your family, your friends, whomever. Like, what
Speaker 4: is our responsibility collect and as individuals to create safety?
Speaker 6: Sure?
Speaker 1: Well, I will give my assessment and answering that question.
Speaker 3: I think you know, Angela, you carry.
Speaker 1: A lot, and we're all Type A personnet like extreme
Speaker 1: Type A personalities, and it's very few people being a
Speaker 1: Type A personality. It's very few people. I'm gonna trust
Speaker 1: that you have it all together, But Angela is definitely
Speaker 1: one of those people. If Angel's like I'm taking lead
Speaker 1: on this, I trust that you have it all together.
Speaker 1: So my takeaway might be a little different from both
Speaker 1: you guys. My takeaway is just because there are people
Speaker 1: in your life and your circle who are always on
Speaker 1: top of things, who always have it together, we have
Speaker 1: to also caution ourselves that we're not doing the superwoman
Speaker 1: myths on these people, you know, because honestly, the way
Speaker 1: I thought, I expected this to be a brawl in
Speaker 1: how we cover, but not a brawl in the way
Speaker 1: that it was. But that Angel's gonna feel really strong
Speaker 1: and come back and say, well, let me tell you
Speaker 1: why you and Andrew are wrong. And I think I did
Speaker 1: not in that moment hold space for everything Angela was
Speaker 1: feeling and going through and doing. And so the lesson
Speaker 1: I think as a takeaway is don't assume because the
Speaker 1: person in your life that's always juggling everything, is always
Speaker 1: on top of it, is always that person. Like we
Speaker 1: all have a right to, you know, have a moment.
Speaker 1: You know, Angeli, you are always quick to take ownership
Speaker 1: of things, And I'm like, I don't think it's all
Speaker 1: on anybody, you know. I think it's in how we
Speaker 1: all collectively hold space for each other. I'm giving sometimes,
Speaker 1: you know, Andrew was, you know, saying we needn't be
Speaker 1: so highbrow or whatever, like Andrew says said that to
Speaker 1: me sometimes, and I wanted him to say it on
Speaker 1: air that day because I'm like, they're probably people out
Speaker 1: there who feel that way, you know. I like highlighting
Speaker 1: our different perspectives and disagreement because we you know, we
Speaker 1: get to do that here. We didn't get to do
Speaker 1: that in other spaces because we were like under the
Speaker 1: umbrella of like black commentators. But the the we're not
Speaker 1: homogenous in our community, and so we get to have
Speaker 1: these nuanced disagreements and what we cover. I thought it
Speaker 1: was a really robust conversation that one I don't like
Speaker 1: when things escalate to that level, but the comfort in
Speaker 1: being friends with people for multiple decades, as you know,
Speaker 1: business family, and it's going where we wanted to be
Speaker 1: good and not we're going to be good, you know,
Speaker 1: and we communicate spoken and unspoken, you know. And so
Speaker 1: I wish Andrew had been on his job and had
Speaker 1: been cutoutowing me and behind the scenes footage and.
Speaker 3: Getting us hugging in the alley whatever.
Speaker 1: But it it just I thought, it's a different lesson,
Speaker 1: I know, But then you should have been out there
Speaker 1: on camera with your camera phone.
Speaker 6: No, I shouldn't have not loving hip hop to.
Speaker 3: Like our vts.
Speaker 5: And I think we all deal with like these things differently, right,
Speaker 5: So Angela at a different point may have needed us
Speaker 5: to lean in or to pull out. But you, you,
Speaker 5: and I may have a different relationship with conflict or
Speaker 5: with the way in which conflict is handled. So, for instance,
Speaker 5: if things get too emotional for a long time, for me,
Speaker 5: if things got really emotional, my first comment was, and
Speaker 5: Jay is gonna like, amen, this was you're not a victim.
Speaker 5: We both have our grievances here, this is you, This
Speaker 5: is where I am da da, but noither of us
Speaker 5: are victims here. And it was now that in reflection,
Speaker 5: I'm thinking what a harsh insense it is, and like
Speaker 5: non loving way to approach a conflict is to say
Speaker 5: like you're not a victim. That is like the worst
Speaker 5: place to go with it. And thank God for Angela
Speaker 5: introducing me to therapy in a way that I had
Speaker 5: never been before really helped me to get outside of
Speaker 5: it because the only thing I needed to hear was
Speaker 5: how are you feeling? And whether I feel like I
Speaker 5: did something to necessitate that or not. The truth is
Speaker 5: is that a person who I love and care deeply
Speaker 5: about about reacted to a thing that I did or
Speaker 5: said in this way, and that isn't what I want
Speaker 5: to happen. I want you to hear me clearly, but
Speaker 5: I certainly don't want to level you in the process.
Speaker 5: I don't want you to walk away feeling like you're
Speaker 5: less intelligent, or you have less to contribute, or that
Speaker 5: your voices and as important or as valued. And I'll
Speaker 5: just disclose. You know, Angelina, I had a conversation yesterday
Speaker 5: after our Don Lemit interview, and I was, you know,
Speaker 5: saying to her that, you know, I've sort of gotten
Speaker 5: used to, at least in some ways in our podcast,
Speaker 5: like not really fighting for the space in every conversation.
Speaker 5: Like if comments are being had or being said and
Speaker 5: either I'm not invited directly into it, or the conversation
Speaker 5: takes place and I've not made a contribution, my default
Speaker 5: position might be like, Okay, I'm not of value at
Speaker 5: this space and in this time, And the the adjustment
Speaker 5: or the compromise I made with myself is like, Okay,
Speaker 5: just accept that in some spaces and at certain times,
Speaker 5: you won't be of value. And what Angela was pointing
Speaker 5: out was that may be an incident where you might
Speaker 5: not feel that way, but to the point that that
Speaker 5: becomes now your conduct, You've negotiated yourself into a space
Speaker 5: where every week you now feel like you have to
Speaker 5: just sort of sit with it, be quiet, keep it moving.
Speaker 5: Time is going. I don't know how to shut up.
Speaker 5: Whatever the thing is that the self talk that I'm
Speaker 5: telling myself now we are completely disrupting the very environment
Speaker 5: we're trying to create for ourselves. The very environment we're
Speaker 5: trying to create is that I don't have to be
Speaker 5: curated through the world's lens. That if this conversation takes
Speaker 5: me away from one about politics and one about the
Speaker 5: fact that, gosh, I feel no real worth in this moment,
Speaker 5: and I don't want to be in a I have
Speaker 5: too much respect for myself. I'd like to think that
Speaker 5: I don't want to be anywhere where my contribution isn't valued,
Speaker 5: where I'm not making a contribution at all. And to
Speaker 5: your point, Angela, about where we have to be respectful
Speaker 5: and where do our listeners show up? They show up
Speaker 5: all the way through this.
Speaker 6: It breaks.
Speaker 5: I can't tell y'all if you're on the listening side
Speaker 5: of this what it did to Angela and Tiffany when
Speaker 5: we got some comments about from some of the listeners
Speaker 5: who said, I felt like you all disrespected the questioner here,
Speaker 5: like you just completely. I'm sitting on the I'm sitting
Speaker 5: here with them on a you know, on the telephone,
Speaker 5: and they're like, I can't believe that. I just I
Speaker 5: can't believe I wasn't aware of that and this, and
Speaker 5: they're going back and forth. I'm like, y'all you want
Speaker 5: to call them on three? Ay, y'all want to FaceTime?
Speaker 5: I mean, like, what are we.
Speaker 6: Going to do?
Speaker 5: No, I was saying.
Speaker 3: He was genuine. That's the scary part. He really wanted
Speaker 3: to FaceTime these people.
Speaker 5: Absolutely was serious. I was like, we have to unburden
Speaker 5: this and I'm really sick of this. I can't believe
Speaker 5: we said that. And I got to go back and
Speaker 5: look at our the veal and all that. I'm like, look,
Speaker 5: which I want to do about it? And so just
Speaker 5: know that it isn't anyone's intention to go that way.
Speaker 5: And I think in our apology the following week, I
Speaker 5: mentioned that sometimes we're not even responding directly to what
Speaker 5: the question is, which is part of our obligation to
Speaker 5: respond to what the question is because you posed it
Speaker 5: and we respect you enough to give you an answer.
Speaker 5: But we're responding to all of the clouds, the layers
Speaker 5: of stuff that we've had to dig through all week,
Speaker 5: and all of everybody else's misimpressions about that thing. And
Speaker 5: now we feel like, oh, this is the window to
Speaker 5: correct the rest of the world, not you the questioner,
Speaker 5: but the rest of the world on that perspective. And
Speaker 5: so I have nothing but love and respect for our audience.
Speaker 5: And that has to mean more than our words. That
Speaker 5: it has to be manifest in our actions, not just
Speaker 5: in the way that we experience it, but also the
Speaker 5: way that you, our listeners, experience it. And that's just
Speaker 5: the work in progress. But know our heart.
Speaker 1: Please all right, job, We're gonna take a quick break,
Speaker 1: but don't go anywhere, because we still want to talk
Speaker 1: more about how to create safe spaces, not just for us,
Speaker 1: but for you as well.
Speaker 3: We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: I even like having this conversation and putting it out
Speaker 1: there for our viewers because I want the audience to
Speaker 1: feel like they are part of the conversation. And I
Speaker 1: think what they appreciated about the mini pod last week
Speaker 1: is they felt like they were eavesdropping on a private
Speaker 1: disagreement with all of us. And I think all of
Speaker 1: us maintain how we feel. I don't think Angela you
Speaker 1: feel any different. I don't think Andrew you feeling different.
Speaker 1: I don't feel any different. And it's like, yeah, we
Speaker 1: can have these three opposing points of view and still
Speaker 1: come together as family, as friends and you know, spend
Speaker 1: time with Yether and laugh and you know, nothing changes.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what we're the society we're trying
Speaker 1: to build and go for in terms of our audience
Speaker 1: and the things that we platform here and creating a
Speaker 1: safe space for our viewers and for each other. I
Speaker 1: just want to make this plea to our audience and say,
Speaker 1: even when we disagree with you, we love you.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: I think that I often say this to Angela, and
Speaker 1: I probably said this you too, Andrew, Like I think
Speaker 1: it's black people. We don't have the privilege to dislike
Speaker 1: each other nobody, you know, right, But but there are
Speaker 1: people who, you know, they're not my favorite people, you know,
Speaker 1: so among us, I'm like, I don't really rock with him,
Speaker 1: I don't really rock with her, but out here in
Speaker 1: this world if something were happening, then I got to
Speaker 1: be a part of the army defending that person, you know.
Speaker 3: And so we feel that way.
Speaker 1: Even when you give a comment that I feel is
Speaker 1: a little disrespectful to the w NBA, we still welcome you, brother,
Speaker 1: We welcome you a comment, you know, like you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to get some.
Speaker 3: Of the smoke.
Speaker 5: Although I did think it was a hoax.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well either way, you know, I hope it wasn't.
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope he had more respect for us
Speaker 1: giving hope, But who knows. Even when we disagree that
Speaker 1: we want you to pull up a seat to this table.
Speaker 1: You know, we've all come from spaces where we didn't
Speaker 1: feel welcome. For twenty four years, I didn't feel welcome
Speaker 1: in you know, mostly white run newsrooms that constantly dismiss
Speaker 1: my input and value and opinions. So I don't ever
Speaker 1: want either of my co hosts to feel like they
Speaker 1: don't have value. And I certainly don't want our audience,
Speaker 1: who shows up to us every week twice a week
Speaker 1: to hear us, to not feel like they have value.
Speaker 1: So we thank y'all for rocking with us, for tuning
Speaker 1: in every week. I thank you Angela for inviting me
Speaker 1: and Andrew to be part of this podcast and build
Speaker 1: this thing brick by brick with you. I thank you
Speaker 1: Andrew for the times that we have on this podcast.
Speaker 1: But honestly, my favorite time is when we're not on
Speaker 1: the podcast, and it's just when Andrew and I get
Speaker 1: one on one time. I feel like it's so calming.
Speaker 1: I'm always telling you some personal drama I have or something,
Speaker 1: you know, Andela off doing something, she's on a flight,
Speaker 1: she doing something else, and I'm all about, like, where's
Speaker 1: where's a good restaurant? So Andrew and I'll go eat sometimes.
Speaker 1: But Angela and I also spend a lot of time.
Speaker 3: Too as the ladies.
Speaker 1: Uh, we have a whole girl group, so I get
Speaker 1: my alone time with each of them, but with with Andrew,
Speaker 1: I just I truly value you, both personally and professionally.
Speaker 1: So I just I love y'all for having the space,
Speaker 1: and just thank y'all for for for dealing on the
Speaker 1: days when I'm giving whatever I'm giving.
Speaker 3: When I'm giving highbrow to Andrew.
Speaker 6: You an.
Speaker 3: When we were walking.
Speaker 1: In Sancho Park, he was so like smooth jazz when
Speaker 1: you know how he does Angela and he was like,
Speaker 1: I had I was a bit elevated at the time.
Speaker 1: And sometimes when I'm like that, I it means I
Speaker 1: go inward.
Speaker 3: Okay, I just get mute.
Speaker 1: What does that mean to It means that I had
Speaker 1: a mood ordering substance that sent me on a flight. Okay,
Speaker 1: and it's a good, beautiful day. I've rolled it to
Speaker 1: the Sangraal Park. And Andrew was talking to me, and
Speaker 1: I hear it. But sometimes your thoughts are like they
Speaker 1: run away and you're like no, no, no, no, wait, and
Speaker 1: the thought is gone. And Andrew was like, you know,
Speaker 1: when you get like this, you just have this judgmental
Speaker 1: look on your face.
Speaker 5: And I don't care for it's just exuding judgment.
Speaker 3: No, but I have it's not even judgment.
Speaker 1: But I was laughing so hard because he said it
Speaker 1: was just so funny to me.
Speaker 3: I'm like, see this is yes, I don't care for it.
Speaker 3: I don't care for it. It's just it's so proper.
Speaker 5: That in most places I wouldn't have two words to
Speaker 5: say to the other person about how they look or
Speaker 5: what they're giving.
Speaker 4: Andrew, you give the craziest cuss outs with no cuss
Speaker 4: words and big words. Sometimes you make up the words as.
Speaker 6: Well, but yeah, like, yes, hilarious.
Speaker 3: All right, do we feel complete with this conversation or
Speaker 3: do we.
Speaker 6: Well, we didn't read the comment I wanted to read.
Speaker 4: I believe it's Janice Paris right, and it says I
Speaker 4: have been listening to your podcast since episode one. Just
Speaker 4: so y'all know, we are not going to make a
Speaker 4: practice of reading these comments. We expect for you to
Speaker 4: send in videos. But just because it was on point
Speaker 4: since episode one, I share the podcast a few times.
Speaker 4: I believe in what you are doing because it is
Speaker 4: imperative and needed. After listening to your last mini pod,
Speaker 4: I resonate with all your viewpoints because they are valid.
Speaker 4: I must say I lean toward Angela as I too
Speaker 4: was blindsided, as I would have never imagined millions on
Speaker 4: millions of people could ever be scammed by Trump. I
Speaker 4: am from NYC, and my very arrogance thought people knew
Speaker 4: he was deplorable in every aspect of being empty, nothing
Speaker 4: good and possibly evil. Keep going and know that you're
Speaker 4: valuable information is appreciated. Keep fighting for the good, and
Speaker 4: as you know, great things start small. Sometimes I love
Speaker 4: the podcast.
Speaker 3: I love that comment.
Speaker 1: I love it too.
Speaker 3: Sure, I'm sure you love it. Angela. No, no, no,
Speaker 3: I didn't.
Speaker 4: I really think like she was like, I agree with
Speaker 4: her screaming on the podcast she was saying she agreed
Speaker 4: with like being blindsided by like y'all really think you
Speaker 4: could vote for this?
Speaker 3: That was knocking? Get it? Yeah?
Speaker 6: So not that part. But yes, I do appreciate them.
Speaker 1: But you know, I appreciate that no matter how we
Speaker 1: feel or what we say, we're three intelligent people with
Speaker 1: people out there who will reflect back, like yes you
Speaker 1: had a good point, or yes I agree with you,
Speaker 1: or yes I agree with all three of you all.
Speaker 3: I think that's what it's for.
Speaker 1: So I like that we You don't want all three
Speaker 1: of us having the same perspective coming up with the
Speaker 1: same ideas, you know, yeah, we don't.
Speaker 4: But the one thing I would love to ask our listeners,
Speaker 4: if you guys don't mind, is we didn't dive enough
Speaker 4: into what it looks like to create a safe space.
Speaker 4: And since we are so lacking and safety in so
Speaker 4: many places, some people at home don't have safety, some
Speaker 4: people at work don't have safety, Some people in their
Speaker 4: neighborhoods don't have safety.
Speaker 6: What does it look like?
Speaker 3: What does it look like to create safety.
Speaker 6: On this podcast? For you?
Speaker 4: What would it what would it look like to be
Speaker 4: in this bubble with us and to feel like you
Speaker 4: have a safe place to process your political gripes, to
Speaker 4: get talking points to take back to your families, into
Speaker 4: your communities.
Speaker 6: What does it look like to create safety here?
Speaker 3: Do we want that on video or in comments or both?
Speaker 4: I would love the videos I love because I want
Speaker 4: to play them and see that I want I want
Speaker 4: the video responses. We have a video on our Instagram
Speaker 4: page at Native Lampard where you can see how to
Speaker 4: submit a video. We will repost that in our stories
Speaker 4: when this air, so you all can send in your
Speaker 4: videos and let us know what safety looks like to
Speaker 4: you on and that.
Speaker 5: I like that. We love the money that jingles, but.
Speaker 1: We prefer the We did a whole Broadway routine in
Speaker 1: Central Park.
Speaker 3: We and our movies. We did a whole thing. Anyway,
Speaker 3: stay tuned for me and Nan.
Speaker 6: I'm excited that he's got some movie lines.
Speaker 1: I'm all right, we'll do that'll do. Thanks for listening,
Speaker 1: y'all home.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so this is one of my favorite episodes. In fact, ladies.
Speaker 5: I don't know if you'll remember, but it came up
Speaker 5: because we were at the DNC convention and uh, Angela
Speaker 5: may have said something. I think I responded, it's safer there,
Speaker 5: and that spawned you like, this is a mini pod.
Speaker 5: Is it safer in the shallow or the deep? And
Speaker 5: all of us have relationships close and otherwise where we're
Speaker 5: constantly asking ourselves a question like how much do we reveal?
Speaker 5: Is it safe if I reveal this? Do I hold back?
Speaker 5: Is it better to keep it superficial with niceties and
Speaker 5: positive encounters? Every time? And we debate the question, and
Speaker 5: I am still trying to answer for myself. Take a listen.
Speaker 5: I love to love to hear what you all think.
Speaker 5: Is it safer in the shallow with the deep?
Speaker 4: So I don't remember how this question came about Miami.
Speaker 4: I know it was in Miami, and somehow we started
Speaker 4: talking about the shallow end and the deep, and I
Speaker 4: think Andrew said that it was safer in the shallow. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I wonder if that indeed is the case.
Speaker 6: And so.
Speaker 4: I am hoping that we can discuss some of these
Speaker 4: I have some questions that I that I want to
Speaker 4: ask y'all I think the first thing is to talk
Speaker 4: about like it is frowned upon for someone to be
Speaker 4: deemed as shallow, right, Like if someone is like, oh
Speaker 4: there's a shallow what is that? What does that mean? Like,
Speaker 4: what does it mean for someone to be shallow to you?
Speaker 6: Tif? What does it mean You're like, oh, this person
Speaker 6: is shallow? What does that mean?
Speaker 3: That everything is surfaced?
Speaker 1: I guess it's like if you you can't even have
Speaker 1: a philical sophical.
Speaker 3: Yes, if you if you can be.
Speaker 4: Philosophical, I think that tip might be shallowed today.
Speaker 1: They cannot have a philosophical discussion, Like they couldn't even participate.
Speaker 3: That, we cannot have a serious making laughing, you're not.
Speaker 6: Doing anything.
Speaker 1: It's just like they can't have a philosophical discussion. I'm
Speaker 1: not looking at you all and when you like, they're
Speaker 1: not engaged on anything beyond what I would consider like
Speaker 1: be issue. Even if we're talking about like celebrity gossip,
Speaker 1: like it's stays at.
Speaker 3: You know, celebrity gossip.
Speaker 1: If we're talking about rap lyrics, you know, like everything
Speaker 1: is just kind of who cares? But can I say
Speaker 1: though I have a friend who doesn't read any news,
Speaker 1: all of her information comes from like Instagram. You know,
Speaker 1: she is a mother, but she's like the embodiment of love.
Speaker 1: And I think these two things are related because I
Speaker 1: think it's easy to go through the day and maybe
Speaker 1: through life being joyful when you're oblivious to all the
Speaker 1: misery happening. And I've read this in a book somewhere,
Speaker 1: and they said that humanity does not function on human kindness.
Speaker 1: It actually functions on human callousness. Because if any of
Speaker 1: us ever truly confronted the monstrosities that happen every day
Speaker 1: as human beings, we would not be able to function.
Speaker 1: So there is some safety perhaps in staying in the shallow.
Speaker 4: But even your friend who reads who doesn't read papers,
Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily mean that she's shallow. Are we talking about
Speaker 4: substantively show shallow, Like, yeah, she's joy like intim actually shallow?
Speaker 6: Or are we saying that there is there more than
Speaker 6: one way to be shallow?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think people who find it difficult to choose
Speaker 5: not to or don't have the ability to see or
Speaker 5: understand subtexts. Yeah, like beyond what is said and what
Speaker 5: is obvious, that there's a refusal, either deliberately or an
Speaker 5: absence of ability to see beneath. And there's some people,
Speaker 5: I think who use the tool of shallowness simply as that.
Speaker 6: A tool, Yeah, like a defense mechanism.
Speaker 5: Or I would get you coming the other way. It's
Speaker 5: sort of like you won't see me coming. It's sort
Speaker 5: of like you won't see me coming. So you've ever
Speaker 5: been in community with people who you may have relegated
Speaker 5: to the category of shallow, not deep, not the person
Speaker 5: you're going to go to for a real conversation, and
Speaker 5: then in an instance, you happen to listen or you
Speaker 5: happen to hear them in something that they have said
Speaker 5: really prickture consciousness, because it isn't on the superficial it
Speaker 5: is they sort of had a moment where they revealed
Speaker 5: that I'm as deep as you. I can go there
Speaker 5: if I want to. I choose to keep this relationship
Speaker 5: where it is so that I don't have to do
Speaker 5: this is that And the third with view and I
Speaker 5: think that I have experienced people who have used the
Speaker 5: veneer of superficiality as a way to cover for what
Speaker 5: I've come to learn as a much deeper thinker, analyzer,
Speaker 5: and quite frankly.
Speaker 6: Operator, Yeah, you know, and.
Speaker 5: An operator to their benefit, right in their interests.
Speaker 4: One of the things I'm thinking about now because it's
Speaker 4: like if you contrast between somebody who is shallow and
Speaker 4: someone who is deep, at least theoretically, or maybe they
Speaker 4: vacillate between the two. The person who I was just
Speaker 4: thinking about is Congressman Bennie Thompson. He is not shallow
Speaker 4: at all, but he says things that feel sometimes that
Speaker 4: feel very surface, like he can reach you at USA
Speaker 4: today and it has, you know, some shakespeare like meaning
Speaker 4: and it doesn't even sink in like that until later.
Speaker 4: We were having a conversation recently, and I'll speak more vaguely,
Speaker 4: but I was in trouble because he felt like I
Speaker 4: wasn't reaching out the way that I should, and he
Speaker 4: was right, and he was just like something like you know.
Speaker 4: I was like, So I called him the next or
Speaker 4: a couple days later, and I said, I'm just calling
Speaker 4: to check in. I don't want anything. I just wanted
Speaker 4: to make sure you knew that I was here. And
Speaker 4: he was like, yeah, I'm just telling you to just
Speaker 4: check in every now and then.
Speaker 6: And he was like he was making fun of me.
Speaker 6: He's like, I talked to your dad more than you.
Speaker 6: My dad calls all of them all the time.
Speaker 4: On a surface level, on a shallow level, it sounds
Speaker 4: like just tapping in every now and then is a
Speaker 4: very shallow point.
Speaker 3: But it is.
Speaker 6: It actually isn't like it.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 6: There's a ton of depth attached to it.
Speaker 4: When you check in with someone, it creates attachment, it
Speaker 4: creates relationship, and it ensures that people know just what's
Speaker 4: going on in people's everyday lives. When you don't check
Speaker 4: in with someone, you don't necessarily know they need surgery,
Speaker 4: or you don't necessarily know that someone in their family's struggling,
Speaker 4: or you know there are all of these different layers
Speaker 4: that you miss from what feels like a relatively shallow touch.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Also, I find with those shallow touches, it might appear,
Speaker 5: if you want to categorize it that way, that those
Speaker 5: touch ins also provide just that nugget, like something happens
Speaker 5: in the course of that exchange. Yeah, that again might
Speaker 5: transform the battle that you might be in. He may
Speaker 5: not be as clueless about the battle as you're fighting
Speaker 5: as you think. He is, maybe more tuned in. He
Speaker 5: never is, And where you choose to check in, Yeah,
Speaker 5: he may be the South, and something that he says
Speaker 5: may be the South that you've been looking for and
Speaker 5: you just didn't know it. I found with my father
Speaker 5: that while he didn't talk a lot to us right
Speaker 5: unless it was a directive, that when he did choose
Speaker 5: to say something, he was really saying somethings, and I
Speaker 5: didn't always get it. He'd say, he'd have to say,
Speaker 5: don't take no wood Nickels off nobody now Nickel, Well,
Speaker 5: you're right, they don't exist. There is no wood Nickel, right,
Speaker 5: it didn't spend And in other words, it's like, don't
Speaker 5: be tricked, don't be fooled, don't be you know whatever.
Speaker 5: I've shared this when I talked about my own testimony,
Speaker 5: where he says, you know, son, don't believe the hype
Speaker 5: like the hype music. Yeah, if you believe what they
Speaker 5: say good about you, you believe what they say bad,
Speaker 5: and you'll be a slave to them both. And I
Speaker 5: had no way to see that properly at the time.
Speaker 5: But his advice then was as prescient, you know, as ever,
Speaker 5: and if I would have applied it properly, Sometimes you
Speaker 5: need the experience, you know, of what not to do
Speaker 5: before you appreciate that, you know, the advice. But but
Speaker 5: it had I known, man, it would have been. But
Speaker 5: most people would have thought my daddy was just his
Speaker 5: nickname was Sonny, you know, almost like you know, you know,
Speaker 5: bright and cheery. He never met a stranger. In fact,
Speaker 5: that my graduation is like two little times. So many
Speaker 5: people you know, can get around to your dad, right,
Speaker 5: get around and touching me and meet everybody. So you
Speaker 5: just thought it was just happy, happy, you know, good,
Speaker 5: go lucky and and truth. He was an observer, very
Speaker 5: perceptive of people, incredibly aged and wise, you know, advice
Speaker 5: and so even in this conversation about what's deep and
Speaker 5: what's superficial, a lot of people who think they're deep
Speaker 5: ancient at all.
Speaker 3: Exact exactly the point. Confused, Yeah, very confused makes a
Speaker 3: good point.
Speaker 1: She's like when she was around all these like heads
Speaker 1: of state and that, you know, high profile people, it's.
Speaker 3: Like some of y'all ain't that smart. And I used
Speaker 3: to have that.
Speaker 1: I mean, we say imposter syndrome, but I think imposter
Speaker 1: syndrome is when a white man came along and told
Speaker 1: you weren't good enough to do something, and it stuck
Speaker 1: with you because you don't you're not born with that.
Speaker 1: And I remember feeling like everyone around me must know
Speaker 1: something that I don't until you start talking to folks
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, I actually.
Speaker 5: No more than yeah, what I don't know.
Speaker 1: I can learn, but you ain't gonna learn what I know.
Speaker 1: You know, some things that we know is just by osmosis.
Speaker 1: I think I choose to be shallow on something. I
Speaker 1: have to go out of my way to force myself
Speaker 1: because I have to be honest on days. It might
Speaker 1: be a random Saturday where I don't read anything. I
Speaker 1: might read like a book of work of fiction, but
Speaker 1: my spirit does feel a little lighter when I don't.
Speaker 4: Do you just here's the question, because this is the
Speaker 4: second time now when referencing deep or shallow you go
Speaker 4: right into like, yeah, and well reading something. So your
Speaker 4: friend who you said is so loving, but you're like,
Speaker 4: she doesn't read anything.
Speaker 3: She's not shallow, she's really deep, right.
Speaker 4: But then you said on your shallow days, you're not
Speaker 4: reading something. I wonder how we then define that's good? Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know depth, like it's just book knowledge.
Speaker 3: That's true. How far we defined.
Speaker 5: That's because I couldn't get to the knowledge place because
Speaker 5: I thought, I don't know that it is. Oh, I
Speaker 5: don't know that it is about our degrees or what
Speaker 5: we real or how much information that sort of thing.
Speaker 5: I think it's like what you see is not the
Speaker 5: ability to sort of discern what you see isn't what
Speaker 5: it really is, And that applies across you know, the
Speaker 5: range of subject matter so on and so forth, that
Speaker 5: it takes work to investigate a subtext. It takes effort.
Speaker 5: You have to put energy, the expenditure of energy into
Speaker 5: trying to figure out what somebody's trying to communicate to
Speaker 5: you or what they're saying without saying it. So I
Speaker 5: think a lot of us really do choose in different
Speaker 5: relationships at different moments, whether or not we just want
Speaker 5: to keep this there or if we're willing to go
Speaker 5: the layers beneath, and so maybe we're not perpetually any
Speaker 5: of it.
Speaker 4: That I think is so true because when I consider
Speaker 4: the people who are like vulnerable off top, to me,
Speaker 4: that's deeper than someone who is like, hey.
Speaker 6: How you doing you good?
Speaker 3: You look goods good?
Speaker 4: That's very surface. But someone who can say, man, you
Speaker 4: know I've been going through a lot. You know, behind
Speaker 4: all my taxis I got my kid is struggling like
Speaker 4: they're they're putting it all on the surface, but they've
Speaker 4: done the work for that stuff to come out.
Speaker 6: I think that's so different, and that is a form
Speaker 6: of depth.
Speaker 4: And so that is my question when we consider the
Speaker 4: space that we're creating on this podcast or the people
Speaker 4: that we want to be in the world, is it
Speaker 4: really safer on the shallow end? Is it safer in
Speaker 4: the shallow for us than in the deep?
Speaker 6: Where you know?
Speaker 4: On the shallow end, are you really known? Can you
Speaker 4: really be yourself in the shallow when you know your
Speaker 4: multi dimensional and have all these layers, Like, is that
Speaker 4: really safe where you're not yourself?
Speaker 3: Is it safer for you Angela in the shallow?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 6: No, I'm a scorpiogre.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I need you to stareing to see my soul, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, and I want.
Speaker 6: To see yours.
Speaker 4: And I would prefer if I didn't have to navigate
Speaker 4: through some crazy forests and some booby traps and stuff
Speaker 4: to get there.
Speaker 1: I think for people who I know and love, I'm
Speaker 1: like you, I want to be known. But I have
Speaker 1: to say that is fairly new for me. You said
Speaker 1: this to me a while ago, Angela and I had
Speaker 1: two fights. We had one fight, No, we had to
Speaker 1: who was the second one? The second one we aired
Speaker 1: the one y'all know that.
Speaker 6: Andrew was like, can't we all just get along?
Speaker 1: People in the comments fundy on Andrew, they like, I
Speaker 1: love the way Andrew handles Angela and Tiffany's they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: I don't have literally on Our first one was over
Speaker 1: a guy, and you remember we were at lunch and
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 4: It wasn't my potential booth that sounds like you like Monica.
Speaker 3: Was he don't deserve your ass.
Speaker 1: Yes that Angela's point was, he doesn't deserve you, not
Speaker 1: even to breathe your air.
Speaker 3: Yes, she was right for the record, but imagine that listener.
Speaker 1: But what no much offensive but me. I said it
Speaker 1: and I echo it now. But what you said to me,
Speaker 1: which I hear this message, I'm Tiffany crist and I
Speaker 1: approved that message. But what you said to me at
Speaker 1: the time I had not heard before. The question hadn't
Speaker 1: been posed to me before. And you said, I wonder
Speaker 1: when you come home to yourself dot dot dot. There
Speaker 1: was some other stuff after that, but I thought about that,
Speaker 1: what does that mean? To come home to myself because
Speaker 1: I had been in a shallow with myself for a
Speaker 1: long time. But when you go deep. Our other sister
Speaker 1: for Latasha Brown, said this to me. I'll go over
Speaker 1: laughing to cry and I'm like, it's good.
Speaker 3: Latasha said this to me.
Speaker 1: Latasha Brown, she was telling me when I was just
Speaker 1: going through a lot, and she said, you know you
Speaker 1: this sounds mean, but she is a body of love.
Speaker 1: And she said, it's like you have a bowl of
Speaker 1: shit and you have put flowers on top, you spray
Speaker 1: perfume on top, and you present that to the world.
Speaker 1: But this is like, this is okay, and you present
Speaker 1: that to people who you want to get to know.
Speaker 1: But the thing about shit, you can't cover up shit.
Speaker 1: And until you deal with that shit deep inside, you
Speaker 1: have to clean that out first for those flowers to
Speaker 1: really bloom. And I hope this encourages somebody today because
Speaker 1: that is when I realized, oh, this is the journey
Speaker 1: home to myself.
Speaker 3: It's not this happened to me and I'm moving on.
Speaker 1: It's like, no feel your feelings, sit in your feelings,
Speaker 1: be self, your friends, the people around you reflect back
Speaker 1: to you who you are. See that ugly reflection and
Speaker 1: work on it and clean it out and come home
Speaker 1: to yourself because you leave home and you go out
Speaker 1: there and work throughout your trauma that your parents in
Speaker 1: childhood unintentionally, and then on that journey home back to yourself,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, let me get rid of this, get
Speaker 1: rid of this shit, and let flowers boom. So I'm
Speaker 1: recently in deep with myself, but for a long time,
Speaker 1: even unbeknownst to myself, I was in the shallow.
Speaker 3: I ain't even expay to get bad.
Speaker 5: I appreciate the trust. All right, y'all, we're going to
Speaker 5: take a quick break and be right back. I think
Speaker 5: for me, I I definitely took a long way round
Speaker 5: to the invitation for people to know me more deeply,
Speaker 5: and one because I didn't think people were that interested
Speaker 5: and right it was, you know, I sort of saw
Speaker 5: myself as a production wheel. What can you put out,
Speaker 5: what can you put out? Give me more? You know,
Speaker 5: you know that sort of thing, and therapy largely thanks
Speaker 5: to Angela, you know, and our Jay's insistence of sitting
Speaker 5: down and just sort of figuring out how to come
Speaker 5: home to myself and that when you do that, you
Speaker 5: are a lot less concerned about people's thoughts, perceptions, feelings
Speaker 5: about you. Not in a disrespectful way, but just in
Speaker 5: a way that you know what, I'm gonna do this thing,
Speaker 5: and I'm going to do it because it's in my pleasure,
Speaker 5: not because this is what your expectation is of me,
Speaker 5: this is what you want from me, or I'm not
Speaker 5: in a performative state, but rather, if I come up
Speaker 5: to you and you and I engage in something at
Speaker 5: a deeper level, it's simply because it was in my
Speaker 5: pleasure at the time. Yeah, And if we don't get
Speaker 5: to that, I'm not being superficial with you. I'm just saying,
Speaker 5: what's up, how you doing? I hope all this well
Speaker 5: and I'm moving on, and you should as well. We
Speaker 5: had a positive encounter because we did, and I do
Speaker 5: wish you well, But I didn't open an invitation to
Speaker 5: know that the world was upside down for you, partly
Speaker 5: because everybody doesn't deserve that. Have me earned that from you?
Speaker 5: Everyone it shouldn't be treated to that. And I don't
Speaker 5: think that is a denial of yourself. I don't think
Speaker 5: that is a departure from who you are. I don't
Speaker 5: think that is putting on. Certainly, if you're acting without expectation,
Speaker 5: I'm not doing this thing because I want this thing
Speaker 5: to be said back to me in return. I didn't
Speaker 5: do that thing for you to compliment me. I didn't
Speaker 5: give that speech for you to be wild bowed over
Speaker 5: and say, oh, you're an excellent speaker. I did it,
Speaker 5: and I said it, and it came out that way
Speaker 5: because it was in my pleasure, it was in my truth.
Speaker 5: I stood there and if you get something from it, good,
Speaker 5: And if you didn't, that's okay too, because I did
Speaker 5: it not in service to that, but in service to me,
Speaker 5: and by being in service to me that God knows it,
Speaker 5: I believe it will bless beyond Yeah. Otherwise, there was
Speaker 5: no intention of doing it that way, or doing it
Speaker 5: at all, and therefore it wouldn't have happened. So I
Speaker 5: think we choose the moment at which we have our reveals,
Speaker 5: whatever those reveals may be. And I don't want to
Speaker 5: judge them those reveals. It's just that's where you and
Speaker 5: I are each other, and we might encounter each other
Speaker 5: on another day and we may be someplace different, because
Speaker 5: you may be someplace different, and your expectation of me
Speaker 5: may be different at that time. But what I like
Speaker 5: about this conversation is I think what we're going to
Speaker 5: get leading to is that we're taking the value judgment
Speaker 5: off of the the shallow from the depth, yeah.
Speaker 3: And exploring what it means.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you saying, is it the second time you
Speaker 1: brought up reading something or like knowledge and what I
Speaker 1: perceive it to be. But that's not really the shallow
Speaker 1: or the deep like that's just you know, it's the
Speaker 1: form of it.
Speaker 6: It's intellectual depth.
Speaker 4: But is there there's there's another kind that I think
Speaker 4: results in real human connection, right like intimacy people will say,
Speaker 4: means into me see and can.
Speaker 6: You do that?
Speaker 4: If there's a shell or there's a layer, or there's
Speaker 4: a that really you know, maybe came as a result
Speaker 4: of a very deep, deeply wounded place, but it's created
Speaker 4: a barrier that feels very shallow. We talk about creating
Speaker 4: a safe space here, we can't create a safe space
Speaker 4: here for our podcast if we're not safe spaces for
Speaker 4: ourselves as co hosts and also as individuals, and that
Speaker 4: is a regular journey or a return home to yourselves.
Speaker 4: I also don't want to take credit for that that's
Speaker 4: a yachty saying to return yadi home to ourselves, but
Speaker 4: it is a regular return. Like you think about going
Speaker 4: home every single day, you have to go and check
Speaker 4: back in every single day, sometimes multiple times a day,
Speaker 4: like where am I?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 6: Am I still? Who I say? I am? Am? I?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 6: Where are my conflicts? Where are my flat sides?
Speaker 4: Every single week on this podcast, I feel like there's
Speaker 4: something glaring where I'm like, oh my god, I see
Speaker 4: my hypocrisy here, and I'm going to call it out
Speaker 4: so I can be accountable to y'all, our listeners and
Speaker 4: keep growing. That is also a return home to myself.
Speaker 4: And you were talking about the reveal.
Speaker 6: We're revealing we literally are shedding layers.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, every every day, probably multiple hours in
Speaker 4: a day, we're shedding these layers. And so my hope
Speaker 4: is that in this conversation that will never end because
Speaker 4: we're constantly waiting a little bit deeper. We hope that
Speaker 4: you all will consider what depth really means and how
Speaker 4: you can wait in and out of the shallow, but
Speaker 4: making sure that you know how to create safety for yourself.
Speaker 5: So that's safety.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Can I just say one more thing? When you
Speaker 1: were talking about creating safe space for co hosts. To me,
Speaker 1: that's the easier part. Creating the individual part is the
Speaker 1: hardest part, like being at peace internally and seeing your hypocrisy.
Speaker 1: You know when you watch yourself, when you hear yourself,
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, that is something that I have
Speaker 1: to sit in, that I have to address, I have
Speaker 1: to deal with. I have to unpack and come out
Speaker 1: better on the other side. And I don't know that
Speaker 1: we have an answer to the question. It might not
Speaker 1: be safer in the deep end, but you have to
Speaker 1: learn to be comfortable in the deep end with yourself
Speaker 1: because that's your home.
Speaker 6: That is your home.
Speaker 3: Yeah, welcome home, y'all.
Speaker 5: Welcome y'all.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for tuning into this very
Speaker 1: special episode of Native Land Pod our holiday season edition,
Speaker 1: and we're so happy that you pulled up a chair
Speaker 1: and joined us at our table. You got some good
Speaker 1: recipe ideas and also some good philosophical exchange from us
Speaker 1: from our mini pods over the years. So stay tuned
Speaker 1: for that Native Land pot luck because we may be
Speaker 1: revisiting that. As always, we do want to remind you
Speaker 1: to leave us a review. What'd you think about this episode.
Speaker 1: This you got time to leave us a review, so
Speaker 1: leave us a review and let us know what you
Speaker 1: thought about this episode.
Speaker 3: Also be sure to subscribe.
Speaker 1: We're available on all platforms in YouTube, and don't forget
Speaker 1: to check out our mini pods. You got a clip
Speaker 1: of what some of those mini pods are going forward.
Speaker 1: Be sure to check them out there every Monday and
Speaker 1: follow us on social media. We are your hosts, Tiffany Cross,
Speaker 1: Angela Rai, and Andrew Gillham.
Speaker 3: Happy holidays everyone, Happy holidays. He's a truth for the
Speaker 3: last morning see.
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining the Natives attentional with the info
Speaker 2: and all of the latest Roy Gilim and Cross connected
Speaker 2: to the statements that you leave on our socials. Thank
Speaker 2: you sincerely for the patients. Reason for your choice is clear,
Speaker 2: so grateful it took the to execute roads. Thank you
Speaker 2: for serve, defending and protect the truth. Even if paint
Speaker 2: for Welcome home.
Speaker 6: To all of the Natives wait, thank you, Welcome y'all.
Speaker 5: Welcome.
Speaker 1: Native Landpod is a production of iHeart Radio in partnership
Speaker 1: with Reason Choice Media. For more podcasts myheart Radio, visit
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows,