1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: It's that time, time, Time, Time, Luck and Load from 2 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Michael Very Show is. 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 2: On the air, disturbing allegations about a Q sex trafficker 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein and members of his social circle. Those allegations 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 2: come from newly unsealed documents from a now settled court 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: case against Epstein associate Elaine Maxwell. A woman claims that 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: Maxwell groomed her to be a sex slave to Epstein 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 2: and was trafficked to some of his most powerful associates. 9 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 3: The training started immediately, give Jeffrey what he wants. A 10 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 3: lot of his training came from Helen herself and being 11 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 3: a woman. It kind of surprises you that a woman 12 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 3: could actually let stuff like that happen, but only let 13 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 3: it happen. But so groom you into doing. 14 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: These power players a priority for us right now? Can 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: we even touch them? 16 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 3: No? 17 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 4: It's like everything you know, it hides in plane site. 18 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: Epstein was hiding in plane side. 19 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 4: We all knew about him, we all knew what he 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 4: was doing, but we had no one that would. 21 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: Go after him. They were afraid of him. For whatever reason, 22 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: they were afraid. 23 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 5: The airplane that we flew on for this humanitarian mission 24 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 5: was owned by Jeffrey Epstein and to then learn, oh, 25 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 5: he was actually on some of those flights, and this 26 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 5: Maxwell woman was on some of those flights. 27 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: I didn't know him. I've never spent any time with him. 28 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 5: I was with the Clinton Foundation people, That's who I 29 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 5: was with. 30 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 6: She told me everything, she had pictures, she had everything. 31 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: She wasn't hiding for twelve years. 32 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 5: We convinced her to come out. 33 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: We convinced her to talk to us. 34 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 3: It was unbelievable what we had Clinton, We had everything. 35 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 6: There's no question executives ABC protected Jeffrey Epstein. 36 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: Why do you think they did that? 37 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 4: Well because their star anchor's name is George Stepanopolis. And 38 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 4: of course George Stepanopolis worked as Bill Clinton's communications director 39 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 4: at the White House. And when was all of this 40 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 4: information being given to Amy Orbak at ABC? When did 41 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 4: she bring all of this to her executives to say 42 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 4: we should put this on the air. Oh, right before 43 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 4: a twenty sixteen presidential election, when Hillary Clinton was running 44 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 4: on the Democratic ticket. 45 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: At the time. 46 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 6: Amy Robach took this story to her superiors and they said, 47 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 6: I don't know who Jeffrey Epstein is. His name was 48 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 6: already all over the News is a convicted sexophone. 49 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 50 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 7: One of the things you've been talking about on your 51 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 7: show is your allegation that government officials are eighteen in 52 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 7: paraphia child trafficking. 53 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: From the degree of Jodren right by me, like what 54 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein did, Clo. I love this country so much, 55 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: and like you, I will passionately argue for the best 56 00:02:54,560 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: policies for it. You know, sometimes I'm probably like the 57 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: dad in the stands at the little league game my 58 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: kids pitching. I think every pitch is a strike, and 59 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: when the ump doesn't call it, I'm mad at him. 60 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: But when my kid's batting and takes a pitch, I 61 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: think every pitch is outside And why on earth what 62 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: you call that a strike? What are you blind? I'm 63 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 1: sure I get it wrong. I'm not Rush. He was 64 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: not a nine point six. Sometimes you go up to 65 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: nine nine point eight. I'm not Rush, but I do worry. 66 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: I worry that there are people There were some mistakes 67 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: made in Trump's first administration that were against his better judgment. 68 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: But the president, this guy's seventy nine years old, and 69 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: yet he keeps a tougher schedule than anybody I know. 70 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: President works his tail off, but he can't do everything. 71 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: There are very powerful, very influential, very rich, and not 72 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: just Americans, people who have the ear of other people 73 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: who have Donald Trump's ear. You know, if a guy 74 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,799 Speaker 1: is trying to cut a deal because he knows Trump 75 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: won't be present forever and he wants to get hired 76 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: by this company or this country afterwards, he's not going 77 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: to say, mister President, and I'm for this because I 78 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: want to make money as soon as I leave out 79 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: of here. I want to cut a deal now. But 80 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: he's going to do it. And it worries me because 81 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: every king, every prime minister, every CEO needs good counselors, 82 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: good conciliaries, good advisors, trusted advisors. And I worry we 83 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: have some folks who have insinuated themselves into Trump's inner circle, 84 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: just as we had folks who did that in the 85 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: first administration. That's how we ended up with Operation Warp Speed. 86 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: That's how we ended up with Jacqueline Burk's That's how 87 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: Fauci was kept when he should have been fired. That's 88 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: how Christopher Ray was kept when he should have been fired. 89 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: And you can say, oh, Michael, you're speaking ill of Trump. 90 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: Wait a minute. When I spoke ill of Christopher Ray 91 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: when he was Trump's FBI direct I had people who said, 92 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: you have never liked Trump. You hide it well, but 93 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: you're just and I said, that's not true. I didn't 94 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: like Trump when he was running. I think he's done 95 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: an amazing job. His own lawyer, Michael Cohen turned against him. 96 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: I didn't. I am a big supporter. I think he's 97 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,559 Speaker 1: doing a great job. But I don't think that whether 98 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 1: a decision that is made personnel or policy is good 99 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: or bad simply based on what Trump says and a 100 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: lot of people do well. Trump said, it's got to 101 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: be true, but you have to understand there were mistakes 102 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: made in the first term, and they were against Trump's gut. 103 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: He trusted people as you have to do. I'm saying 104 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: there are some snakes that come out at night. As 105 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: Charlie Pride said, I'm gonna play you this clip. I 106 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: thought we were going to deport, right, I thought we 107 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: were going to deport I want you to listen to 108 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: this clip from over the weekend and you decide maybe 109 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: I'm at fault. This is five oh for Jim. 110 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 8: And we're working on legislation right now. 111 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: Susie right. 112 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 8: We're working on legislation right now where farmers look ain't 113 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 8: no better. 114 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: They work with him for years. He had cases that 115 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: were not here. 116 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 8: But just even over the years where people have worked 117 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 8: for a farm on a farm for fourteen fifteen years 118 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 8: and they get thrown out pretty viciously, and we can't 119 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 8: do it. We got to work with the farmers and 120 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 8: people that have hotels and leisure properties to We're gonna 121 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 8: work with them, and we're gonna very. 122 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: Strong and smart, and we're going to put you in charge. 123 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: We're going to make you responsible. 124 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 8: And I think that that's going to make a lot 125 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 8: of people happy. Now, serious radical right people who I 126 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 8: also happen to like a lot. They may not be 127 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 8: quite as happy, but they'll understand, won't they. Do you 128 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 8: think so, Madame Secretary, to look at you with a 129 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 8: white hat on, do you think they'll understand that you're. 130 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: The one that brought this whole situation up. 131 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 8: We're going to be changing the name of the Gulf 132 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 8: of Mexico. 133 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: To the Gulf of Ritt and Michael Berry. 134 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 9: Which has a beautiful lay. 135 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: On a Sunday back in May, I was sitting out 136 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: in the afternoon with my wife. We were having coffee 137 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: and I came across I don't remember which paper was 138 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, New York. It was Wall Street Johnale. 139 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: I came across a piece entitled Perfect Communities Review the 140 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: Abundant Life in Levittown. It was a book review of 141 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: a book by a fellow named Edward Berenson, and the 142 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: book is called Perfect Communities. Levitt Levittown town named after him, 143 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: types of town named after him, and the dream of 144 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: white suburbia caught my attention. The subheading was to build 145 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: affordable homes on a mass scale. William Levitt sought cost 146 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: cutting measures and fought political battles. And it was written 147 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: by Edward Glazer at Harvard University. I reached out to him. 148 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: Our schedules haven't meshed, but today they have, and I 149 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: am delighted to have him with us. I thought it 150 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: was a very very interesting piece because it covers something 151 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: that I am quite interested in, and that is, in 152 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: today's world, you will see a lot of folks talking 153 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: about the myth of home ownership, home ownership slipping outside 154 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: the grasp of the average American blackrock buying up homes 155 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 1: or building homes only for the sake of renting. You've 156 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: got interest rates in the mid to high sixes, but 157 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: on your credit could be higher, whereas I'm locked in 158 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: low twos. Makes a big difference on the same house. 159 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: All of these things conspiring together to make home ownership, 160 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: which we all agree is is good for society. Every 161 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: data point will tell you lower crime, higher performance, better 162 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: nuclear stability, all nuclear family stability. Home ownership is great. 163 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: Why can't we build homes that are affordable? I don't 164 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: mean affordable housing as a governmental subsidy. I mean why 165 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: can't we build homes that people can own that are affordable? 166 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 1: And this fellow tried to do it. There was a 167 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: book written about it, and Edward Glazer has written a 168 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: review of that. I've asked him to join us to 169 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: discuss Edward Glazer, welcome to the program. 170 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 9: Thank you so much for having me on. And I'm 171 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 9: always happy to discuss housing. 172 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fascinating subject. I was reading about you 173 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: and you seem to be a proponent of something that 174 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,599 Speaker 1: I have argued in favor of, which, considering I'm a 175 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: right wing nut, surprises people. That is an urban density. 176 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: I was the mayor pro tim in the City of 177 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: Houston during the two thousands, and my great frustration was 178 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: people wanted public transit, they wanted a rail system, they 179 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: wanted everything that requires density. But every time a single 180 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: family home in one of the historic neighborhoods, not a 181 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: historic home, but a single family home was torn down 182 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: and three town homes put on that five thousand square 183 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 1: foot lot, they said, it's ruining the neighborhood. And I said, 184 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: you want things that require density, but you do everything 185 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: you can to regulate against density. And so your seeming 186 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: advocacy of greater density in the urban environment as a 187 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: better use of space seemed to me very interesting. So 188 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: I've diverged a little, but there you go. Absolutely. 189 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 9: So let me rephrase what you're in favor of to 190 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 9: make it clear that it is, in fact a perfectly 191 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 9: reasonable right wing thing to be in favor of, which 192 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 9: is your in favor of freedom. You're in favor of 193 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 9: someone who owns a plot of land in downtown Houston 194 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 9: being able to densify that land if she or he 195 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 9: feels like they want to do that, And that's always 196 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,599 Speaker 9: what I've advocated. I mean, I do see lots of 197 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 9: positive things about density. There are lots of great things 198 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 9: about it, but I don't see any reason why the 199 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 9: public sector needs to artificially subsidize it. What I think 200 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 9: is that people should be able to add density to 201 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 9: their lots. You know, I wrote an article almost twenty 202 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 9: years ago called Houston, New York has a Problem two 203 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 9: thousand and eight City Journals, where I held up your 204 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 9: Houston if you're talking about the problems there, which from 205 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 9: a national perspective, Houston is like an affordable housing dream, 206 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 9: and I like, you mean, affordable is just the market 207 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 9: rate being low enough so that ordinary people can buy, 208 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 9: not some extra government program. But you know, in two 209 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 9: thousand and eight and two thousand and seven, I just 210 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 9: went through I just wanted to make New Yorkers understand, right, 211 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 9: why so many people were moving to Texas, why so 212 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 9: many people were moving to Houston, and the difference in 213 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 9: quality of life, right for a young couple doing kind 214 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 9: of thing more things, earning a bit more in New York, 215 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 9: but the housing costs just ate up everything, and they 216 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 9: were sort of scraping by right in New York. Right, 217 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 9: they were living this sort of perilous life of trying 218 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 9: to figure out a three hour commute to get something, 219 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 9: Whereas in Houston they were living solidly middle class lives. 220 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 9: There's kids were going to decent schools, they were eating 221 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 9: out at decent but affordable restaurants, and you know, it 222 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 9: was just night and day. I must say I came 223 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 9: away from that more amazed why everyone had moved to 224 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 9: Texas rather than why so many people had. But Texas 225 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 9: is really still the national leader in terms of making 226 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 9: it relatively easy to build. And you know, when you 227 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 9: think about the past thirty years, I just wrote a 228 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 9: paper with my long term colleague Joe Jerko on this 229 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 9: for Brookings. You know, many of your sundalt competitors that 230 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 9: were housing supply superstars, like Atlanta and Miami and Phoenix, 231 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,719 Speaker 9: all of them have started to fall down on the 232 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 9: job right. All of them started to make it harder 233 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 9: and harder to build in medium density areas, and as 234 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 9: a con quint, they'd become. 235 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 1: Far less affordable. 236 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 9: Texas has slowed down, but it's slowed down by left. 237 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: You know. Professor Edward Glazer of Harvard University as our guest. 238 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: He wrote a review of the book Perfect Communities, levitt 239 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: Levittown and The Dream of Dream of White Suburbia and 240 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: I promise we will get to the book in case 241 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: anyone was wonder if there was going to be a payoff, 242 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: just a quick anecdote. So I came out of law school. 243 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: I got two law degrees because I thought I would 244 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: want to teach law. After I practiced, and I realized 245 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: that I wanted to do deals. I didn't want to 246 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: write the paper for them, So I went out and 247 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: started buying apartment complexes on on credit, owner financed. I 248 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: had no cash. I was just cobbling together deals and 249 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: to pay the bills. I started a real estate brokerage 250 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: for him, and having been a lawyer, all my clients 251 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: came from law school classmates who had gone to other places, 252 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: and then when they had somebody that was moving to Houston, 253 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: that'd go, oh, I have a buddy who's a real 254 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: estate broker there. And it was amazing to me to 255 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: see the look on the face of people from particularly 256 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: San Francisco, New York, and Boston. Those were the big three, 257 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: and they would come to town. Now, this was the 258 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: late nineties, so that this number sounds bigger than was 259 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: bigger than than it is today. But they would have 260 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: between four and six hundred thousand dollars, and I'd say, 261 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: all right, I'll take you out to view seven to 262 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: ten different properties in that price range, some townhomes, some 263 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: single families, some inner loops, some out and they couldn't 264 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: believe that they could live right next to downtown in 265 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: a two year old town home, absolutely outfitted with everything. 266 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: And they'd say, you know, in San fran Boston, New York, 267 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: I'd have an eighth floor walk up, which means, for 268 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: those of you who don't know, means you don't have 269 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: an elevator, an eighth floor walk up of four hundred 270 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: feet a peer to tear, and I can have all 271 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: this here. They couldn't believe it, And that's a game changer. 272 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: That's a life changer for people completely. 273 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 9: I came to write my book Trying for the City 274 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 9: about fourteen years ago, where where we all I also 275 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 9: discussed thee I have a whole chapter that's basically about 276 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 9: the Woodlands that just walks through sort of the amazing 277 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 9: transformation that sort of actually being able to build that 278 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 9: scale means in terms of your ability to just deliver 279 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 9: both house and community to ordinary people. 280 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: For Edward Glazer is our guest from Harvard University. We're 281 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: going to talk about this book, Perfect Communities, Levitt, Levittown 282 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: and the Dream of White Suburbia. I don't care if 283 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: somebody decy strikes shoe. You can't shoot Michael. It's been 284 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: booked off us are Edward Glazier of Harvard University. Writes 285 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: on things related to housing, particularly the free market of 286 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: housing and how housing is priced and where we live 287 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: and density and things like this, which is one of 288 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: along with transportation, and they go, they go hand in 289 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: glove is one of my great interests in life when 290 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: it comes to policy. He has written a review of 291 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: a book called Perfect Communities, Levitt, Levittown in the Dream 292 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: of White Suburbia by Edward Berenson, and you talk in 293 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: the in your review, Professor Glazer treat home building like 294 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: any other form of manufacturing, which gets cheaper with vertical integration, 295 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: mechanization and assembly lines. Typically, mister Berenson writes, a middleman bought, say, 296 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: lumber from a lumber mill and then sold it to 297 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: the builder, marking up the price along the way. But 298 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: Levitt had a vertical integration. Why have we not been able? 299 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: I mean I looked to boxable, I had their Ceo 300 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: Taramini on some time ago, and know, if you know 301 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: about them, it's a manufactured home. Everybody's trying to get 302 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: into a truly made I don't mean a trailer, a 303 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: mobile home. A manufactured home that can be plopped down 304 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: and then you plummet and tie into to the electrical lines. 305 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: Why has no one been able to do that? Professor Glazer. 306 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 9: So, I fundamentally think this is about local land use regulation. 307 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 9: I you know, in other work of mine with Leo Demico, 308 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 9: Joe Jericho, Bill Kerr, and JACKI mal Ponsetto, we've traveled 309 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 9: the last one hundred and thirty years and try to 310 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 9: look at housing productivity in the US, and what you 311 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 9: see is kind of a stagnant period nineteen hundred to 312 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 9: nineteen forty, and then nineteen forty to nineteen seventy, the 313 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 9: age of Bill Levit, the age in which like we 314 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 9: were starting, we're building massive projects and there was real 315 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 9: technological innovation. Like productivity went way up. Since the nineteen seventies, 316 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 9: it's gone way down. And you know, if you compare 317 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 9: houses and cars, like. 318 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: We could do a lot more cars per worker. 319 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 9: Now than we were able to in the nineteen seventies, 320 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 9: but we're doing fewer houses per per worker. And I 321 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 9: think this is all about projects getting smaller and smaller, 322 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 9: the firms getting smaller and sptant. You know, more than 323 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 9: fifty percent of America's employment that's working on residential construction 324 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 9: is in firms with fewer than ten workers. Just just 325 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 9: let that think in fewer than ten workers, right, as 326 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 9: opposed to sort of every other major industry where the 327 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 9: majority of workers are in establishments with more than five 328 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 9: hundred workers. You know what firms with seven workers don't have. 329 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 9: They don't have research and development departments. They don't have 330 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 9: the kind of scale that would enable you to invent 331 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 9: the technologies that would remake the future. And it's precisely 332 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 9: because every community has decided they want to micro manage 333 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 9: every little project, right that we don't have the ability 334 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 9: to sort of just build at scale. And I think, 335 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 9: you know, you could imagine lots of things that would 336 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 9: break that, one of which we would be state wide 337 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 9: as of right zoning for particular models and manufactured house. Right. 338 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 9: The more that you created that process, the more individual 339 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 9: producers would say, oh, I'm going to come up with 340 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 9: something great, because they can put these down all over 341 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 9: Texas if I managed to get the state wide approval 342 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 9: to put in my manufacturer home, my modular home. 343 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: So there was a lot of highbrow academic wordage verbiage 344 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: there that I want to make sure that we cut 345 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,479 Speaker 1: through to the guide driving home from work. I think 346 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: it is very important, and that is you know why 347 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: if you want to especially in this, I know you 348 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: probably want to stay away from from political ideology. But 349 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: for the white liberal urban intellectual who says, you know, 350 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: housing is not affordable inside the urban core anymore, well, 351 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: damn it. That's mostly the part of the government. And 352 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: that's the part that frustrates me so much, is that 353 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: you cannot convince people of this having served on city 354 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: council as a mayor pro tem of a city, the 355 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: largest city that doesn't have zoning, although we do have 356 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: a lot of deed restrictions and we do have a 357 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: lot of regulations and more now than we did when 358 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: I was there, But dead gummet, it's the government that's 359 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: actually it's a local government that's actually causing the problem, 360 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: and that you cannot get people to understand. 361 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 9: It's you know, it's been I've been fighting on this 362 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 9: for twenty five years. Twenty five years, I've been fighting 363 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 9: for the cause of helping people to understand that the 364 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 9: ultimate villaineer is local land use regulation. And you know, 365 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 9: one of the points I think of Levitt, the reason 366 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 9: why the Levit story is interesting. He's not really the 367 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 9: nicest guy in the world. But you know that doesn't 368 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 9: matter because, like you know, as Adam Smith said tw 369 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 9: hundred and fifty years ago, you know, we depend on 370 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 9: self interest to make things work. And you know, he 371 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 9: was just a businessman. He did great stuff, and he 372 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 9: managed to pull the price of the price of housing down, 373 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 9: whereas all of the people who seem kind of saintly 374 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 9: were saying, oh, let's protect this thing, let's protect that 375 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 9: preservation thing, right, all of them. You know what they are, 376 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 9: They're the architects of scarcity because they're working through regulation, 377 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 9: they're stopping down the forces of competition and greed. Quite honestly, 378 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 9: that actually lead to the construction of large scale affordable housing. 379 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: You have a very interesting delivery style where I'd love 380 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: to be Do you teach in the classroom? You back, Okay, 381 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: I didn't know. If it was pure scholarship, it would 382 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: be fascinating to sit through your courses because you have 383 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: this interesting elocution where you race and then you completely 384 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: punctuate to a stop. It's halting. It's interesting. It would 385 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,479 Speaker 1: be I need to read more of your writing because 386 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 1: you have great discipline. You can kind of turn on 387 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: a dime. You probably didn't ask for an elocution review, 388 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: but that's what you're getting now. It is very interesting, 389 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: Professor Glazer, that we can't seem to accomplish this, and yet, 390 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: you know, to his credit, George W. Bush tried. It 391 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: ended up being a bust. You ended up having a 392 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: bunch of liar loans, and you ended up giving tax 393 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: benefits to people to own who had no business owning, 394 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: and you had people with terrible credit trying to own, 395 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: and then people buying multiple homes, and you had the 396 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight mortgage bust. But what is the answer. 397 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: I'm going to make you king for the day. There 398 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: are no political implications. You don't need anyone else's sign on. 399 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: How do we create an environment where the private market 400 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: creates housing that is plentiful and affordable in the urban 401 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: core of our major cities. 402 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 9: Clarity, simplicity, you know, everything being as of right, right, 403 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 9: so you know, and making sure the as of right 404 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 9: density levels are sufficiently high, so you know. You want 405 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,479 Speaker 9: something where developments can come in and can know I 406 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 9: can start building like tomorrow if my building conforms to 407 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 9: the following free thing. It's the delays, it's the lawsuits, 408 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 9: it's all that stuff that makes it so difficult to 409 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 9: build and leads developers to both build only for the 410 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 9: rich and build much smaller projects. So you really want 411 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 9: to make sure that whatever your code is is incredibly clear, 412 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 9: incredibly simple, and targeted towards smart things right, which means 413 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 9: you want to make sure the buildings are reasonably safe, 414 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 9: and you want to make sure you know the uses 415 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 9: aren't deeply harmful for the people of living you by. 416 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 9: But that's a really small set of things that would 417 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 9: would fall if out of those those rules. Just make 418 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 9: it simple, make it fast, make it dense. 419 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: You do realize that every listener is now carefully studying 420 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: your delivery and your halting pattern as punctuation to see 421 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: if there was any merit to what I said. Professor 422 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: Edward Laser of Harvard University is our guest. He happens 423 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: to be an expert in something that is a great 424 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: academic interest of mine, and that is the housing market. 425 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: How we build, where we build, how much it costs. 426 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: Will continue our conversation, which I don't know if you 427 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 1: folks are enjoying it, but I should grease your job. 428 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 1: Would use that tone to me, not a joe. 429 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 8: That's sarcastic, contemptuous tone that means you know everything because 430 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 8: you're a man. 431 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 1: Then I know nothing because I'm a woman. 432 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 9: That is not a joke. 433 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: That is a natural fact. The Michael Very Show. This 434 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: is kind of a Kevin Bacon multiple degree removed. Professor 435 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: Edward Glazier is a professor and scholar at Harvard University 436 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: who writes about housing. He wrote a review in The 437 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,479 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal back in May which I thoroughly enjoyed 438 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: on a Sunday afternoon. The review was of a book 439 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: by Edward Berenson about a fellow named Levitt? Did you 440 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: keep up with all that? The book is called Perfect Communities? 441 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: Should you want to buy it? Levitt? Levitt Town, Levittown 442 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: and the Dream of White Suburbia? Professor Glazer, what do 443 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: you take from all this? This man like Edison? You know, 444 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,199 Speaker 1: the great failure as I see it, of Thomas Edison 445 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: was the thing he really wanted to accomplish was these 446 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: homes that he could, you know, take with a and 447 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: drop down. He just didn't have the delivery mechanism. Could 448 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: he could create it. What do you take of this effort? 449 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: I don't know if you're aware of Teramini's company Boxable 450 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: to create a unit that you could build and then 451 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: drop on site. I love it. 452 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 9: I think that would be tremendous, right, I mean, I 453 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 9: think the more that we can use the magic of 454 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 9: mass production to make things cheaper, more fish and more beautiful, right, 455 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 9: the better off we are. So the delivery is a 456 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 9: big issue, right, These all houses are big. Boxable seems 457 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 9: to be very creative in terms of the way that 458 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 9: they smooth it down so they can move it over space. 459 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 9: But the delivery is a big challenge. But you know, 460 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 9: I would love it if in fifty years people naturally 461 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 9: thought that all of our houses were going to be 462 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 9: built on a factory. And you know, there are great 463 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 9: examples from elsewhere. Japan, which has a much more sensible 464 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 9: zoning structure for the US than the US. They basically 465 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 9: have nine different kinds of zones throughout the entire country 466 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 9: and you know you're one of those not so it 467 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 9: gives you a great deal of sort of predictability, uniformity, 468 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 9: and unsurprisingly, in a world with much simpler zoning, you 469 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 9: see a lot more mass produced housing. And it's beautiful. 470 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 9: It's beautiful, it's nice, and it's cool, and no one 471 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 9: to think it's bad. And I'm sure somebody thinks that, 472 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 9: but many people think it's great. And so I think, really, 473 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 9: this is the dream is to do for housing what 474 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 9: Henry Ford did for cars, and that was in some 475 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 9: sense what Bill Levitt's dream was too. But when it 476 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 9: looked like he was making it happen in the fifties 477 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 9: and sixties, he then run and then into the buzzsaw 478 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 9: of increasingly regulated local spaces that just made it very, 479 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 9: very different from mass produce anything locally. 480 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I will say two things inform the following statement. 481 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: We went to Japan, first time i'd been my wife 482 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: and kids at Christmas, and I am in love with Japan. 483 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: There's so many things I love. I love their nationalism, 484 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 1: I love their pride, I love their efficiency, I love 485 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: their hard work and diligence and so many things. But 486 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: I did not find the architecture to be inspiring. And 487 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: I did a separate law degree in England, in Nottingham, 488 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 1: northeast of London, and I found that, particularly as you 489 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: leave London, you find this uniformity of row houses that 490 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: look like public housing in the United States. You know, 491 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: it's just a brick with anybody's ever seen an English sitcom? Upstairs, downstairs, 492 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: you name it. They all look the same. And I 493 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: find that kind of Eastern European Soviet Bloc fifties Hungary depressing. 494 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: I like to see more design, and I love the 495 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: creativity of the individual. To me, that's an important part 496 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 1: of life is seeing people's creative expression through their architecture. 497 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 1: I understand I'm speaking out of both sides of my 498 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: mouth because we're talking about housing thats affordable, but. 499 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 9: Still so I'm the side of an architecture with historians, 500 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 9: so like you know, I also believe that our beautiful 501 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 9: buildings are some of our greatest treasures. But I also 502 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 9: have my doubts about local governments being the right people 503 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 9: to decide what beauty is. I tend to think that 504 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 9: sort of it's individuals. It's individual geniuses who make stuff 505 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 9: that's beautiful, and often the government gets then it just 506 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 9: gets in the way. I don't have a problem with 507 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 9: a limited amount of historic preservation that is well targeted, 508 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 9: ideally justified to some kind of cost benefit analysis. But 509 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 9: I'm going to push back on the notion that it's 510 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 9: through regulation that we're going to get nicer stuff of 511 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 9: uture UK example was one in which it was government 512 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 9: architecture that led to the problem. And you know, if 513 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 9: you're building a large scale development, if you're building the woodlands, 514 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 9: if you're building the leave of town stuff, you've got 515 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 9: to attract customers. You want to create a you know, 516 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 9: it's in the sort of core capitalistic interest to create 517 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 9: a community that gets people excited, that gives people joy. 518 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 9: And I would much rather trust to that than I 519 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 9: would to a local regulatory body to actually produce something 520 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 9: that people will love. So I think you get both 521 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 9: and it is so easy. I mean, think about, like 522 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 9: all the things you can do with sort of you know, 523 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 9: modern modern manufacturing, to create different facades, to make all 524 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 9: the houses look kind of different. You have different colors, 525 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 9: a slightly different shapes. They don't have to look all 526 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 9: the same, even if they're manufactured not after all, not 527 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 9: all the products that come out of general motors look identical, 528 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 9: so I think the housing doesn't have to look identically either, 529 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 9: and it can be really nice. 530 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: It's an interesting concept, you know, the urban, the urban 531 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: implementation versus a more rural. What we're seeing a lot 532 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: of outside of Houston is we're seeing some of the 533 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: biggest developments we've ever seen at one time, the Howard 534 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: Hughes Corporation and several others that are you know, you're 535 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: building thousands of units because you've got cheap dirt, low crime, 536 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,959 Speaker 1: good local schools, decent infrastructure. You know, people don't need 537 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: to work near, don't need to live near where they 538 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: work as much anymore. And you've seen a lot of 539 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: manufacturing and these sorts of things, the retails following the rooftops, 540 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: so you've got a lot more to do out in 541 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: those communities, and it's very exciting to watch. They're not 542 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: manufactured per se, but boy, they've got these these these 543 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: stick homes down to such a process that they get 544 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: in and out of there that they're able to drive 545 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: the price down well below one hundred thousand dollars in 546 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: some cases, including for dirt, and that's pretty impressive. It 547 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: is pretty amazing. 548 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 9: I mean, I'm a big fan of how it's Hughes 549 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 9: and it's CEO J Cross, who used to used to 550 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 9: run related Hudson Yard, So it used to be a 551 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 9: very urban builder. And I think it's not surprising that, 552 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 9: you know, you move from New York to Texas if 553 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 9: you really want to be on the cutting edge of 554 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 9: building in America. But yeah, they're they're at scale and 555 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 9: they can get the prices down. And I look around 556 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 9: me in you know, Massachusetts, and everything's a one off 557 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 9: project and it's massively more expensive because of that. 558 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: It's an exciting day because even including incorporating inflation, you're 559 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: seeing some elements of building construction, particularly because of composites 560 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: and the like. I saw a home the other day 561 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: online that was built by a three D machine. And 562 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: you think about, now, the guy who hammers, and the 563 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,719 Speaker 1: guy who travels, and the guy the guy who lays 564 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: tile and these sorts of things. It may be frightening 565 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: to that guy. But the idea that you could you 566 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: could standardize construction and create a systematized process like this, 567 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: and how that would drive down cost for the consumer, 568 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: much as AI has done in many ways. From the 569 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: consumer's perspective, that's very exciting. 570 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 9: It is very Excitingolutely it's innovation, and you know, normally 571 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 9: American businesses innovating. I mean, housing has been a rare 572 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 9: exception much of the country, and you know, it's it's 573 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 9: nice to see housing doing what every every sensible industry 574 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 9: does and the ultimate where it's absolutely going to be. 575 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,959 Speaker 1: The consumed Professor, Edward Blazer, you're here about. You're herebout 576 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: deputized as the housing expert for the Michael Berry Show. 577 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: Here Toofore, you are great. I am up against a break. 578 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: I would love to have you back as as issues 579 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: arise around the country. You are charming, you are brilliant, 580 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: are a lot of thank you and good night.