1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here, 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election. 4 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent. 6 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible. 7 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means 8 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that, 9 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 2: let's get to the show. 10 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: So today is primary day in New York and also Colorado. Actually, 11 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Lauren Bobert is going to be on the ballot, maybe 12 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: losing her primary, but the one that most people are 13 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: focused on is in New York. Jamal Bowman versus Westchester 14 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: County Executive George Latimer. We can put this up on 15 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: the screen. A lot of this race hinges on Jabal 16 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: Bowman's pro Palestinian stances, his increasingly vocal stance, which is 17 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: interesting I'll get into in a moment, and the massive 18 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,639 Speaker 1: flood of money into this race, which is making it 19 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: literally the most expensive congressional primary in history. Dan Maren's 20 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: has a look at some of the underlying dynamics here. 21 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: That's an interesting read. He says, it's not just a 22 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: pack out. Jamal Bowman alienated voters who once supported him. So, 23 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: you guys may recall the way Jamal Bowman originally was 24 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: able to win the seat was also in a Democratic primary, 25 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: took out Elliott Engle. Now, Ingle had been a stalwart 26 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: ally of the pro Israel crowd. He was a top 27 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: recipient of a pack funding. He was, you know, really 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: staunched on that point. And Jamal Bowman at that point 29 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: was trying to take sort of the liberal Zionist position, 30 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: the sort of more more moderate J Street style positioning there. 31 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: I think perhaps he hadn't really thought all that much 32 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: about the issue, was trying to just say the things 33 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: that Democrats typically say to try to appease everyone. He 34 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: wins that seat. It was in the context of the 35 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter protest. Elliott Ingle had gotten caught on 36 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: a hot mike, you remember the soccer saying basically like 37 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: the only reason I'm hers because I'm up for election. 38 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: He was never in the district. He took it for granted. 39 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: And so Jamal Bowman is able to win the district 40 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: has always been a little bit difficult for him because 41 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: it is a combination of there's a part of the 42 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: bronx in there that's very like diverse working class. There 43 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: are other diverse working class neighborhoods in the district. There's 44 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: also a significant area of like affluent suburban liberals and 45 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: a significant Jewish vote as well. So there were a 46 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: lot of lingering bad feelings among those for whom Israel 47 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: is their number one issue about Jamal Bowman taking out 48 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: Ellie and Engel. And then post October seventh, when Jamal 49 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: Bowman emerges as one of the most vocal Congress people 50 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: in service of the Palestinian cause and you know, not 51 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: going along with all of these resolutions that are being 52 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: passed through Congress, et cetera, he ends up with a 53 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: giant target on his back and his opponent, Westchester County 54 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: Executive George Latimer, who is you know, very like centrist 55 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: right laying he doesn't want to raise He's really running 56 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: on like I won't raise anyone's taxes, including the billionaires. 57 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: He's taking one hundred percent of the APAC line, et cetera. 58 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: He's also a really well known figure in Westchester County 59 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: because he's been a local politician there. So those are 60 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: some of the dynamics we can go ahead and put 61 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: this or what do we have next? Is the terroristiat 62 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: or the thought that we have next. 63 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 4: We've got a little. 64 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: Taste of some of how Jamal Bowman has been talking 65 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: about the funding that's been going into this race. He 66 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: and George Latimer in one of their debates. He's talking 67 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: about how Apak has been funding his opponent, et cetera. 68 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to how that exchange went. 69 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 5: The wealthy and particularly from my opponent's campaign, billionaire Republicans 70 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 5: are buying our democracy. The reason why our democracy doesn't 71 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 5: work for working class people and the majority of the 72 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 5: American people is because of big money in politics. He 73 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 5: is running a big money campaign. They're spending more money 74 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 5: in this race to get me out than they have 75 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 5: ever spent in their history, meaning Apak more money than 76 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 5: they have ever spent. The house dog. 77 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 3: Is one issue, one issue, special interest. Their issue, according 78 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 3: to Politico, is Israel. 79 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 5: Correct, So let me I think I still had time 80 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 5: on the clock. Good. So their one issue is Israel, 81 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 5: not Mount Vernon, not the Bronx, not New Rochelle, not Portchester, 82 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 5: not White Plains, not Tuckahoe, Israel. And they recruited him 83 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 5: to run against me, and they're spending more money in 84 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 5: this race than they have ever spent in their history. 85 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 5: Why because I'm fighting against the genocide in Gaza and 86 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 5: because I'm speaking up for black and brown people here. 87 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 5: We should not be sending billions of dollars to another 88 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 5: country to commit genocide while we are struggling to live 89 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 5: day to day right here in this district. 90 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 3: Thank you. 91 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I agree with him, but you can see 92 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: there he doesn't. He doesn't have She calls it a genocide. 93 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: And there's a lot that's interesting about this doger. So, 94 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 1: first of all, Apak has put in some fifteen million 95 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: dollars into this race, which is astonishing. And most of 96 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:12,559 Speaker 1: the ads they're running, by the way, don't have anything 97 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,679 Speaker 1: to do with Israel, but they obviously prefer George Latimer 98 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: over Jamal Bowman. So what they've gone with, and what 99 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: Latimer has gone with, is this idea that Jamal Bowman 100 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: is all talk and no substance. In Latimer's this like 101 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: technocratic executive who's going to be actually able to, you know, 102 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: work the levers of power and deliver for the district. 103 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: So that's you know, that's the dynamics of the campaign. 104 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: One of the things that's really interesting with Jamal Bowman is, 105 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 1: as I was saying before, when he was first running, 106 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: it seems like I don't know that he had a 107 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: really well formed opinion on the issue. 108 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: You know, he had, Yeah, you and I interviewed him 109 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 2: at the time. He was yeah, he was kind of 110 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 2: all over the place. 111 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: I mean, he just you know, it was sort of 112 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: like very typical. And there's a lot of new politicians 113 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: who are like this. 114 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 4: They just haven't thought all that much about it, They 115 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 4: don't know all that much about it. 116 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: So he gets into office and he agrees to go 117 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: on a trip to Israel that was sponsored by J Street. 118 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,679 Speaker 1: Now J Street is meant to be the like liberal 119 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: Zionist alternative to APAC, so they're not as hardline, they're 120 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: not his right wing. They're in favor of a two 121 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: state solution, but they're still Zionists. So he decides to 122 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: go on this trip. And actually, at the time it 123 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: was a big thing on the left. The DSA was 124 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: very upset about the fact he was going on this trip, 125 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: et cetera. But as it turns out, according to his 126 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: own telling, actually going to Israel and seeing the reality 127 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: and meeting with Palestinian these young Palestinian students actually visualizing 128 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: and experiencing the reality of the apartheid system there, and 129 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: how some places are just you know, off limits if 130 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: you're not Jeoish, off limits certainly if you're Palestinian. That 131 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: actually really changed his view and even made him feel like, 132 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: you know, this this nonsense we've been fed about the 133 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: two states solution, how this is an ongoing process, like 134 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: this is a fantasy. 135 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 4: So the more that he. 136 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: Came in contact with the reality of what Israel is today, 137 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: not just the sort of like top line talking points 138 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: that liberals have been speaking to for years and years 139 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: and years in the absence of like an actual desire 140 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: among the Israeli government to pursue any sort of a piece. 141 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: Once he actually had exposure to that, it hardened him 142 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: in terms of his pro Palestinian positions and made it 143 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,239 Speaker 1: so he's not just a liberal Zionist now. It's shifted 144 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: him to really being an anti Zionist, and he speaks 145 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: about that now and has a lot of sort of 146 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: moral force. So you know, the bottom line here is 147 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: he's very very very likely to lose. 148 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 4: Today. 149 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: We've got the new York Times article we can put 150 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: up on the screen here. APAC on leash's record fourteen 151 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: point five million dollars in a bid to defeat Jamal Bowman, 152 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: critic of Israel. The delusion outside spending, they say, also 153 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: includes another one million from a different pro Israel group. 154 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: There have been some other groups that have come in 155 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: on Jamal Bowman's side, but obviously can't even come close 156 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: to matching that amount of money. This is a PAC 157 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: also making good on their promise to unleash one hundred 158 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: million dollars to take out and punish anyone who is 159 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: a critic of their pro Israel policies. So you know, 160 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: they really want to make an example of him, and 161 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: I think they have a very good chance to do it. 162 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: Let's put this up on the screen from Ryan. This 163 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: is the latest poll and it has Jamal Bowman losing 164 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: badly to George Latimer forty eight to thirty one, and 165 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: that polling has shifted. There's limited polling in the context 166 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: of a primary, but what we've seen it is shifted 167 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: dramatically since that APAC money has come in. 168 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 2: Definitely friend of the show. Dan Marins in the Huffington 169 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 2: Post in his ride up, though he did say that 170 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 2: Bowman has kind of been not at odds with the district, 171 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,599 Speaker 2: but he gave himself an opening that October seventh was 172 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: going to be exploited. So they talk about that vote 173 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: against the bipartisan Infrastructure Bill back in twenty twenty one, 174 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 2: which is very important to people in New York because 175 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 2: of various tax breaks hidden. 176 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 3: Within there thanks to Chuck Schumer. 177 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 2: They also talk apparently here about that pulling of the 178 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 2: fire alarm. 179 00:08:58,040 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 3: A lot of people were very. 180 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 2: Rist about that entire situation, they say, And this is 181 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 2: a He has a quote here from a chair of 182 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: the Democratic Committee who actually was a Bowman donor as 183 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,239 Speaker 2: recently as January, and he said he had been frustrated 184 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 2: with Bowman's failure to follow through on efforts apparently to 185 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: arrange conversations quote with her rabbi and other Jewish friends, 186 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 2: as well as his July twenty twenty three decision not 187 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: to attend Israeli President Isaac Herzok's speech to Congress, which Bowman, 188 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: as you said, cited his previous Israeli visit as reason 189 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 2: for not doing something. 190 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 4: I think I was the one who said there were 191 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 4: no uninvolved civilians. 192 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 2: With the Madi Hassen interview, which was after October seventh. 193 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 2: What Maren's rights in the piece is basically, you have 194 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 2: the fire alarm thing. You already had some previous just 195 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: like annoyance with these like normy liberal Democrats, and then 196 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 2: Israel toured gasoline on the fire and gave all the 197 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 2: money in the world to anybody who wanted. 198 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 3: To exploit that. 199 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 2: You put all of that together, and you've got the 200 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 2: perfect storm to be able to kick him out of office. 201 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I always appreciate Dan's writing, and I think 202 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: the piece is worth reading. But I will say that, 203 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: you know, if you just look at the polling and 204 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: the way it's moved since the money came in, Like 205 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: clearly the APAC money has been very significant. 206 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 4: Part of this race. 207 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: And it's also really clear, I mean from the way 208 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: APAC has positioned itself and some of the races they've 209 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: got involved in. Dan seems to suggest that if Jamal 210 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: Bowman had just moderated a little bit on Israel, he 211 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: may have playcated them. And I just don't buy that 212 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: because we saw them come in, for example, to a 213 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: race in California where the person who was running whose 214 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: name I'm blanking on. He hadn't even he'd been a 215 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: little bit critical of Benjamin Nett Yahoo. But he was 216 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: pro Israel, like he was on all of the talking points. 217 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: But they still, because they're worried about him dissenting even 218 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: a little bit, they still put millions into that race 219 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: to try to defeat him. And so Jamal Bowman had 220 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: already said enough that I think there was if you 221 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: don't go along with every single thing that they want. 222 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 4: They know George Latimer is. 223 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: Going to do everything, you know, and they already were 224 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: upset that he had taken out Elliott Ingle. So I 225 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: don't think that there was a space for him to 226 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: position himself. There just isn't, you know, at this point, 227 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: the sort of positioning of a quote unquote liberal Zionist, 228 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: It really isn't possible anymore. It's just that that space 229 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:23,719 Speaker 1: is gone because we've all been faced with too much 230 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: of the reality of what Israel is, what it does, 231 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: the way it lies, the way that processes the occupation, 232 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: the way the occupation has expanded under every Israeli administration, 233 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: whether they were right wing or quote unquote moderate or not. 234 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: So you know, to me, what was interesting is that 235 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: Jamal Bowman, the more that he came in contact with 236 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: that reality, the more his position shifted against, you know, 237 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: what had been the liberal Zionist sort of standard talking points. 238 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: And you see this, you know, the stance with Joe 239 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: Biden where he's kind of a no man's land, still 240 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: trying to pair it the liberal Zionist position when it 241 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 1: makes it doesn't really make sense to anyone. It's become 242 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: very binary. You're either, you know, against the what I 243 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: see in what Jamal Bowman anothers see is a genocide, 244 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: or you're not. So I don't know that there was 245 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: like a middle ground that he could have occupied that 246 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: would have kept a pack out of this race, which 247 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: is why people like John Fetterman, when he was looking 248 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: to keep a pack in their affiliated or allied super 249 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: PACs out of the race, he just went to them 250 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: and was like, tell me what I need to say. Literally, 251 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: according to Ryan Graham, and that's the only way that 252 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: you can get away with it is you're just literally like, 253 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: I will, I will sub out my Israel policy to you. 254 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: I will do one hundred percent of what you say. 255 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: If there's even like a hint of independent thinking or daylight. 256 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 4: Forget it. They want you gone. 257 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 2: I don't think it's Yeah, I mean it's a smart 258 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 2: political strategy here obviously, especially with the constituents that you've got. 259 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 2: It's like the perfect storm. And yeah, I mean look 260 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 2: in general it was a problem for him. It always 261 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 2: was we'll see how things go. But it's not looking good. Yeah, 262 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 2: it's not looking good. 263 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I think it's would be a massive crazy 264 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: things have happened, but I think it would. 265 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 3: Be It would be crazy if he wins. 266 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: I will say, what you want a blow to a pack? 267 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 5: Would that? 268 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 3: It would be shocking? Yeah, I will say. I was 269 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: telling you, guys, I was. 270 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: I was at the gym yesterday and somebody random asked 271 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: me to go, hey, who is that congressman who can 272 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 2: bench four oh five? 273 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 3: That is Jamal Bowman. So maybe he is winning over. 274 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 2: The critical bodybuilder demographic. They're like, that's all I need 275 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 2: to know about it. 276 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 4: Look crazy. 277 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: I'm just saying, there are a lot of bros out 278 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 2: there who are impressed. He did three reps, four or 279 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 2: five decent form. That's I'm impressed. 280 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, impressed, we completely I mean I don't know that 281 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: much about I know that that's a lot of weight. 282 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 4: But people were saying, this is. 283 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: Like the you know, he's like the top point five 284 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: percent yea. 285 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 4: Of like powerlisters. 286 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 2: I would put it this way, if you're not juicing 287 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,239 Speaker 2: and you're able to do that naturally, that is shocking. 288 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 2: So you know, I always thought, no offense, I thought 289 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 2: he was fat, But now after seeing that, I'm like, no, 290 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 2: he's got that that power lifting body. Yeah, he's got 291 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: like the he's got the meat and he's got the muscles. 292 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 3: So respect where it's deserved. 293 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 294 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: Last thing I'll say on this before we move on 295 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: to what's going on in Ukraine is just you know, 296 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: Jamal Bowman is not stupid. I'm sure he knew that 297 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: this was going to be an issue for him in 298 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: this race. He knows his district, he knows I think 299 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,319 Speaker 1: there's about one hundred and fifty thousand Jeish people. Not 300 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: Jewish people aren't a monolith, right, they'd all all see 301 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: the things that the way that Apak does. However, and 302 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: there's also classified among Jewish people that we've seen as well. However, 303 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: the Jewish people in his district are predominantly relatively affluent, 304 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: and he knew this was an issue, right, and he 305 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: said genocide, and he you know, called in question some 306 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: of the lies in the propaganda, and he's been very outspoke. 307 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: He's taken votes that I'm sure he knew were going 308 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: to be a problem for him, and he deserves quite 309 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: like that is actual political courage. 310 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 4: I'm sure he. 311 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: Knew he was risking his seat when he was taking 312 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: those votes. And so I just want to say I 313 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: appreciate that, I respect it, and we'll see what happens 314 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: for him tonight. 315 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 4: For a pack. 316 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: If they lose, oh boy, I was devastating for them. 317 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: If they win, you know, it's there successfully demonstrating once 318 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: again that you are punished if you dissent from their 319 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: line on Israel. And that's really their goal here, is 320 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: to you know, put a target on his back, to 321 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: make an example of him, to show they've got the 322 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: muscle to prevail in you know, at least in certain. 323 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 4: Places in the country. So we'll see what happens, right, all. 324 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: Right, So we wanted to bring you an update on 325 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: this protest that happened in Los Angeles. So the protests, 326 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: which no one in media will apparently tell you, was 327 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: in the context of a real estate event at a 328 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: synagogue where they were selling off stolen land in the 329 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: West Bank, exclusively available by the way to Jewish people. Now, 330 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: in America, restrictive covenants are illegal. You can't say this 331 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: neighborhood is for whites oldly anymore. But in Israel you 332 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: can say this neighborhood is for Jews only. And so 333 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: there's been a series of these real estate events. There 334 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: was one in t Neck, New Jersey. There have been 335 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: some in Canada. This was the latest happening in la 336 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: and so protesters showed up to protest this event. Counter 337 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: protesters also showed up. And the whole thing, as the 338 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: cops are just standing by and letting it happen, devolves 339 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: into chaos and violence, would be a little bit of 340 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: a taste of. 341 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 4: That, you know, you've got. 342 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: I don't know who's who, who's instigating, et cetera. I 343 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: can tell you there were journalists who had their one 344 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,479 Speaker 1: journalist who had his phone stolen by a pro Israel protester. 345 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: I also want to mention that there were protests outside 346 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: of that t Neck, New Jersey, synagogue real estate event 347 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: as well, and those remained peaceful because the cops kept 348 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: the two sides separated. So there have been This isn't 349 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: even the first time that protests have erupted at this thing. Okay, 350 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: so that is what it looked like. Let me show 351 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: you the poster of the real estate event that was, 352 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: you know, for what was occurring at this synagogue. They say, 353 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: come and meet representatives of housing projects and all the 354 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: best Anglo neighborhoods in Israel. And again this group, the 355 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: my Home in Israel real estate company. They offer properties 356 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: that are for sale in the occupied West Bank. And 357 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: you know, this is illegal by international law, probably illegal 358 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: in US law too, certainly against US policy, et cetera. 359 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: The way this was covered in the press was so 360 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 1: incredibly dishonest. 361 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 4: It was unbelievable. Unbelievable. 362 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: Well, actually it's totally believable, and part of the course, 363 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: honestly the way that they oay that. 364 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 2: They approach it, because as you so, I check in, 365 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 2: I log in, I was like, okay, wow, it was 366 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 2: like some crazy stuff went down in Los Angeles, and 367 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 2: so I look into it and I'm like, by the way, 368 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 2: as people know, I'm I'm pretty neutral on this. 369 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 3: I'm open to it. 370 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 2: A bunch of Palestine Caffea Maski's you know, beaten people up. 371 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 3: It's possible, skeptical. 372 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 2: So we look into it and they're like, oh yeah, 373 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 2: it doesn't seem good. Now all of this, all these 374 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 2: politicians start condemning the act. Everyone's like, oh my god, 375 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,719 Speaker 2: this is terrible. There was a pogrom in Los Angeles. 376 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: Now I'm starting to get suspicious because any someone starts 377 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 2: to see that language come. 378 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 4: Out like wait a second. 379 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 2: So then you know, our producer is like, well, you 380 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 2: know it was in response to a real estate event, 381 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 2: And I said, what what are you talking about? So 382 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 2: then we start to look and we checked it. We 383 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 2: had to check that flyer. We confirmed it. We go 384 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 2: to the Los Angeles Times and we read, you know, 385 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 2: the local paper about what happened, and you have to read, 386 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 2: I want to say, twenty paragraphs. 387 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 4: Now we had this input it up on the screen. 388 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, we can put D three please guys up on 389 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 2: the screen. And it takes scrolling and scrolling and scrolling 390 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 2: and scrolling to discover the context of the real estate event. 391 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 2: And in my opinion, that kind of does change everything though, 392 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 2: because all the rhetoric that I see online is everyone's like, 393 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 2: why are they protesting? 394 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 3: And synagogue. This is disgusting. 395 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 2: This is a religious temple, Like, how can they do 396 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 2: this out of all the places to choose. I'm like, okay, Well, 397 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 2: if you're a host in a real estate event auction 398 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 2: and off land in the West Bank and it says 399 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 2: Anglo neighborhoods early, that's a little bit crazy. 400 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:00,120 Speaker 3: Can we all agree with that? 401 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 2: All? 402 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 5: Right? 403 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 4: Now? 404 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 2: I'm not saying anybody gets deserved violence. You know, I 405 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 2: don't think there should be any violence. Oh good ah, 406 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 2: this side agree, but you know, legitimate I think around 407 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 2: for a protest, So I mean, this is what I mean. 408 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 3: Let's flip it around. So I'm Indian. 409 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 2: Let's say that there is a Hindu temple like the 410 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 2: one I used to go to where I was growing up, 411 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 2: and there was an event there where they were auctioning 412 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 2: off land in Kashmir. That'd be a little bit crazy, yeah, 413 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,239 Speaker 2: And we said it was only for Hindus, and then 414 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 2: a bunch of Pakistani showed up and we were and 415 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 2: then there was like a clash or whatever, and people 416 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 2: said that they had unprovoked attacked. 417 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 3: But be even me. 418 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 2: I'd be like, come on, guys like this, look they're 419 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 2: within their rights. You know to show up. This is 420 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 2: America last time I checked. None of that is in 421 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 2: the public sphere. The way people are talking about it, 422 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 2: it's as if it was totally unprovoked, and I just think, 423 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 2: look again, I condemn violence. I don't think should have happened. 424 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 2: I think the police should have kept them separate, et cetera. 425 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: That said, if you don't report that, you are just 426 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: being a platon dishonest. 427 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 3: So, because that's the issue. 428 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 4: Here's the way to be honest with you. 429 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: The LA Times, the fact they even mentioned that there 430 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: was a quote unquote real estate event with none of 431 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,719 Speaker 1: the like, oh and by the way, they're selling you know, 432 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: I legal stolen land, et cetera, and it's for Jews only. 433 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: The fact they even mentioned that puts them better than 434 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: like ninety five percent of mainstream coverage, which all portrayed 435 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: this as like people just hate Jews. So they were 436 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: protesting a synagogue with none of the context. Now listen, 437 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: I think it's fair if people want to say, listen, 438 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: I don't care what they were doing in a synagogue. 439 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: I think that a house of worship should be off 440 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: limits parent you shouldn't protest. I don't agree, but I 441 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: think that's a reasonable position you could take. 442 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 4: Okay, if you want to say, you. 443 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: Know, certainly you could say there shouldn't be violent, Okay, 444 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: that's fine. I don't agree with the nature of the protest. 445 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: I think also you could say, from a tactical perspective, 446 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: was it wise to go and protest isn't knowing the 447 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,959 Speaker 1: way the media may portray it, et cetera. So I 448 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: think that's a legitimate point of view to make that 449 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: argument as well. To pretend people just showed up because 450 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: they hate Jews and they wanted to protest a synagogue 451 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: is so incredibly dishonest, and this turns into, of course, 452 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: a whole thing. 453 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 4: Joe Biden puts out. 454 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: A statement condemning the anti semitism, Gavin Newsom, the mayor 455 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: of La Karen Bass, none of them acknowledging that. By 456 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: the way, also, you know, selling occupied land in the 457 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: West make that is supposed to be counter to US 458 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: policy as well, So in theory they should be on 459 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 1: the same ideological side of the protesters. And then there's 460 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: also just the double standard of every time a Palestinian 461 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: protester pro Palestine protester does anything that the media can 462 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: spin and lie about and colorably make a pear like 463 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: it's all about anti Semitism. The president's got to put 464 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: on a freaking statement. Well, there was an incident alleged 465 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: in Texas where some unhinged woman asked a mom who's 466 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: Palasaidian American? Where she was from, and then tried to 467 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: drown her kids. But when she learned that they were 468 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: Palestinian American, where's the statement on that, where's the statement 469 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 1: on the the you know Bezaliel's smoochurch Israeli minister a 470 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: speech just came out where he said, hey, we're going 471 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: to annex the whole West West Bank or you know 472 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: the video we showed you yesterday where they tied an 473 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: injured Palestinian to the hood of an IDF vehicle and 474 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 1: are using him as a literal human shield. Like, where's 475 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: the outrage and the statements over that? But so this one, 476 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: this drove me absolutely insane. Just to give you a 477 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: little bit more background, here's D four can put this 478 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: up on the screen. As I mentioned before, this wasn't 479 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: the first of these events. This has been a series 480 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 1: of events across our country and also in Canada. This 481 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: one is focused on the Teneck, New Jersey, event they 482 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: described as the disastrous Gret Israeli real estate event and 483 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: most of the events, they say was a company called 484 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: my Home in Israel, which also was involved in this 485 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: one in La brought along to showcase available properties in 486 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: both Israel and the Palestinian territories. It occupies multiple and 487 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: it's in a building in East Jerusalem, East Jerusalem townhouses 488 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: in the heart of the West Bank, and a five 489 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: bedroom villa with a pool in the luxury enclave of 490 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: a frat south of Bethlehem. From the first stop, they say, 491 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: in Montreal, protesters have shown up to condemn the sale 492 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: of houses built on settlements illegally expropriated from palest means. 493 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: In the West Bank and in Teaneck. I believe we 494 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: actually covered here. There was a Jewish man who showed 495 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: up at a community meeting and said, you know, this 496 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: is outrageous, it's illegal, it's in Worl. 497 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 4: It shouldn't be happening here. 498 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: And he's in his words he said, and there's going 499 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,439 Speaker 1: to be a protest because I'm going to lead it. 500 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: This was a Jewish man in that community. So that's 501 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: the truth of what happened. Here, But maybe the most 502 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: outrageous and dishonest coverage came from where else, CNN, where 503 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: they had Van Jones joined to call it a pogrims 504 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: As you rightly said, Sager, just listen to this insanity 505 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: in the way that he portrays this. 506 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 6: If you don't like what's happening in Gaza, it's your 507 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 6: right to protest. That's not a problem. But you protest 508 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 6: a policy. You don't protest a people. When you protest 509 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 6: a policy, you go to city hall and you protest, 510 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 6: You go to the Israeli consulate peacefully, you protest, maybe 511 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 6: you go to your elected representative. 512 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 3: Your protest. 513 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 6: You don't bum rush a Jewish neighborhood and run up 514 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 6: on a synagogue. 515 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 3: That's not protesting a policy. 516 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 6: That's protesting a people, and that is across any line 517 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 6: in America, and it has to be called out. You 518 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 6: cannot protest a people. That is not a protest, that's 519 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 6: a program, and that has to stop. 520 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 3: Let's talk about the policy. 521 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 2: Let's talk about how the Biden administration, how the president's 522 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 2: handling the policy. 523 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 3: Van, how do you see it? Where does he need 524 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 3: to improve on this? 525 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,719 Speaker 6: Well, listen, I think that the president is in a 526 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 6: tough position because the base of the party is very 527 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 6: concerned about these images that we keep seeing from Gaza, 528 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 6: and he wants to take a strong stand on behalf 529 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 6: of human rights for everybody. That's Joe Biden. At the 530 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 6: same time, I think it's a little bit naive for 531 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 6: some of the people that think that if it's Rael 532 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 6: were just to suddenly just stop doing what it's doing, 533 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 6: that rainbows and bunnies and sunshine would break out over 534 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 6: the Middle East and it would all be, you know, be fine. 535 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 6: The hostages have to be returned. If you can call 536 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 6: for a cease fire, call for a seas fire on 537 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 6: both sides, a mass is still firing its rockets. They 538 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 6: still have hostages kidnapped. So this is a complex issue. 539 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 6: But here's what's not complicated. Politics can be complicated, geopolitics 540 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 6: can be really complicated. How you treat your neighbors, how 541 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 6: you treat people in your community, is not complicated. You 542 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 6: don't run up I haven't seen any Jewish people running 543 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 6: up on mosques with Israeli flags. If they did that, 544 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 6: I'd be denouncing that too. There's certain things you don't do. 545 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 6: It is a red line. Don't if you want to 546 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 6: be a part of a protest, and they say, we're 547 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 6: going to go to a Jewish community center, We're going 548 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 6: to go to a mosque, we're going to go to 549 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 6: a Jewish restaurant. That's not a protest, that's a program. 550 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 4: Oh my god. 551 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: So if you done that whole segment, you would never 552 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 1: know why the protesters were there. It's not just because 553 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: they hate Jews and they wanted to protest in a 554 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: Jewish neighborhood outside of a synagogue. It's so dishonest. He says, 555 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: you protested policy, not a people. They literally were protesting 556 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: a policy. That's why they were there. But you are 557 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: too dumb or too much of a liar to actually 558 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: inform your audience about what was going on. And like 559 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: I was saying, listen, if you've got an issue, you 560 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: don't think that that's acceptable. Okay, lay that out, but 561 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: give people the facts of why they were actually there. 562 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: They weren't just quote quote quote unquote bum rushing a 563 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: Jewish neighborhood and running up on a synagogue. Disgusting, disgusting, 564 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: such liars, it's unbelievable. 565 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 3: What about the contexts? 566 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 2: Say whatever you want, but it's like when you put 567 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 2: it out of the context. That's what really pisses me off. 568 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 2: And why is it that me as a news professional 569 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 2: has to glg deep just to figure out the most basics. 570 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 2: And at the same time, I'm like, yeah, that's why 571 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 2: I even have a job, right, Like, in a perfect world, 572 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 2: you don't even need to exist. But this is exactly 573 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 2: what the issue is. So regardless of where you are, 574 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 2: Like you know, some of the rhetoric here, it's like 575 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 2: what are you going to do? Like are you going 576 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 2: to send in the National Guard? I'm like, Yo, this 577 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 2: is nuts. You're allowing foreign sales to happen in houses 578 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 2: of worship. I mean, first of all, shouldn't you have 579 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 2: your tax status poll if you're going to be doing 580 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 2: stuff like that. 581 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 3: I don't think that should be allowed in American soil. 582 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 2: Maybe just me, I don't think you should be having 583 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 2: foreign sale you know, foreign sales going down in houses 584 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 2: of worship and stuff like this, which are official events. 585 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 3: So anyways and. 586 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: Close off, but to exclusionary too. Literally it means you 587 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: can't go in and buy that real estate. I mean, 588 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: that's not how we do things in America. It's you know, 589 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 1: since Civil Rights Act, the Fairhousing Act. You have to 590 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: allow people of all backgrounds, racist genders, et cetera to 591 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: be able to So you're having this exclusionary event that 592 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: is in contrary, that is counter to international law, and 593 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: you're saying people are not allowed to protest that, and 594 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: the only reason that they possibly could have been protesting 595 00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: that is because of anti Semitism. 596 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly can't stand it all right, Crystal, what do 597 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:03,640 Speaker 2: you taking a look at. 598 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: More than forty thousand dead majority women and children, more 599 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: devastation than Dresden, Hamburg and London combined, Bertal siege which 600 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: has led to dozens of stardivation deaths and an entire 601 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: population on the brink of famine, and all on AsSalt 602 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: that has left nothing sacred, from schools mas to hospitals, cemeteries. 603 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 4: And refugee camps. 604 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: There's no world in which these atrocities committed by Israel 605 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: and Gaza are justifiable, let alone righteous. But according to 606 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: the Israeli government and our own, they are acceptable to 607 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 1: be celebrated, even because they've been committed in service of 608 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:41,239 Speaker 1: a noble war aim eliminating Hamas. That's the logic that 609 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: the Israeli public and a decent portion of our own 610 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: has bought. Yes, the civilian deaths are bad, but it's 611 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: a price we must accept in order to get the 612 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: Hamas bad guys. But a new analysis in Foreign Affairs 613 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,719 Speaker 1: by political scientists and international security expert Robert Pape reveals 614 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: that not only has Israel's genocide and Gaza been morally outrageous, 615 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: it has actually strengthened Hamas. Israel isn't just falling short 616 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: in their war objectives. They have bolstered the very group 617 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: they are supposedly seeking to destroy. They have murdered countless 618 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: civilians in service of making Hamas vastly stronger, incredible. But also, 619 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: let's be honest, predictable turns out, death and destruction are not. 620 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 4: The same as victory. 621 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: So here is Paithe in that article headlined Hamas is 622 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: winning quote. The central flaw in Israel's strategy is not 623 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: a failure of tactics or the imposition of constraints on 624 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: military force, just as the failure of the US's military 625 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: strategy in Vietnam had little to do with the technical 626 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: proficiency of its troops or political and moral limits on 627 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: the uses of military power. Rather, the overarching failure has 628 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: been a gross misunderstanding of the sources of Hamas's power. 629 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: To its great detriment, Israel has failed to realize that 630 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: the carnage and devastation it has unleashed in Gaza has 631 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: only made its enemy stronger. So essentially, Israel and the 632 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: US have focused on how many Hamas fighters have been 633 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: killed as a measure of the success of the war. 634 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: That is entirely the wrong metric. It almost doesn't matter 635 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: how many fighters Hamas has today. What matters is its 636 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: recruitment potential for the future, how many new recruits can 637 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: they pull from the next generation. Media reports and local 638 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: pollings suggest that number has surged massively. Here's the Jerusalem 639 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: Post reportedly Hamas is already looking to capitalize on this 640 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: IDF enabled surge in popularity. Now, this is a right 641 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: wing outlet, so you've got to sort through the propagandabout 642 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: quote unquote Gaza youths, which appears to be an attempt 643 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: to legitimize killing children and their credulous acceptance of Israeli 644 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: lies about how many Hamas fighters they've actually killed. But 645 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: the basics of the reporting are that Hamas is holding 646 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: recruitment camps and training sessions to replace the fighters they've 647 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: lost to death, injury, and arrest. They claim that Hamas 648 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: is looking to add some twenty thousand new members to 649 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: their ranks. But even this biased outlet has a pretty 650 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: straightforward accounting of the landscape. Potential Hamas recruits face quote, 651 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: eighteen year olds choosing whether to join Hamas or not. 652 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: On the one hand, face the reality that so many 653 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: who have joined Hamas have been beaten and killed by 654 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: the IDF. On the other hand, they currently have no 655 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: horizon for finding work or doing much of anything other 656 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: than sitting around in refugee camps, since no one has 657 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: even started planning the rebuilding Gaza process, which is likely 658 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: to take many years. What they don't note is that 659 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: those eighteen year olds face potential death in torture by 660 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: the IDF whether or not they join Hamas, since the 661 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: Israeli government has so indiscriminately slaughtered civilians and has operated 662 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: under a presumption that all men and boys are to 663 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: be assumed Hamas. Now, going back to Pape, Israel's actions 664 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: have created ripe conditions for Hamas propaganda, according to him, 665 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: which has been received favorably by many Palestinians. He points 666 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: out the polls have found HAMAS support and support for 667 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: violence against Israeli civilians, both surging after October seventh. In addition, 668 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: Israeli atrocities have fueled what he describes as a quote 669 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: cult of martyrdom, increasing the allure of HAMAS members. 670 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 3: Quote. 671 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: People are less likely to volunteer for high risk missions 672 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: if their sacrifices go unnoticed. A community that honors the 673 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: fallen fighters of a terrorist group helps sustain it. Martyrdom, 674 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: legitimizes terrorist actions, and encourages new recruits. Terrorists will act 675 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: as they see fit, but it is the community that 676 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: ultimately decides where an individual's sacrifice is accorded high status 677 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: or whether it is broadly viewed as irrational, criminal, and 678 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: worthy of content. The community support for HAMAS has also 679 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: directly hindered the IDF's ability to successfully target HAMAS leadership 680 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: and locate hostages to additional supposed war aims. After all, 681 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: what Palestinian with a shred of integrity would collaborate with 682 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: the genocidal IDF YEP turns out. Indiscriminately murdering civilians while 683 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: blocking peaceful pathways to negotiated settlement is a great way 684 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: to search support for violent resistance. If you create massive 685 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: amounts of grief, despair, and rage and block all nonviolent 686 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: political processes, don't be surprised when that rage finds an 687 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: expression in violence. In the words of security analyst Internet 688 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: hippo quote, I'm not a political expert, but if you 689 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: eliminate Hamas but killed my whole family in the process, 690 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: my first move would be to start Hammas two point zero. 691 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: The truth is, just as we would have been better 692 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: off if we had done literally nothing in response to 693 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: nine to eleven, Israel would have been better off if 694 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: they had done literally nothing in response to October seventh. 695 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: Now that's to say nothing, of course, of the Iraqi 696 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: innocence and Palestinian innocence who were sacrificed on the altar 697 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: of personal political interest masquerading as counter terror. For my part, 698 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: got enough respect for Biebe to reject the notion that 699 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: he was too dung to operate at the intellectual level 700 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: of Internet hippo. They knew their campaign wasn't going to 701 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: eliminate Hamas, But in a sixth sense, strengthening Hamas actually 702 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: serves Bbe's political interests. After all, he has consistently worked 703 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: to bolster Hamas in order to block a potential peace 704 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: deal and to maintain division between Gaza and the West Bank. 705 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: I don't see why that logic would be any different today. 706 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: So long as Hamas remains, the IDF has endless justification 707 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: for ras bombings and occupation, endlessly prolonging war that BIB 708 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: wants to be endlessly prolonged. He can proclaim to gradualist 709 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 1: international leaders that they have no partner for peace, even 710 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: if he makes it clear he has absolutely no interest 711 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 1: in a two state solution or any other long term piece. 712 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: The brutality of that annihilation campaign can satiate the post 713 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: October seventh of bloodless from the Israeli public and begin 714 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 1: to rebuild Netnyahu's political standing that's been working all while 715 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: accomplishing BB's stated goal of quote finning out the Gaza population, 716 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: which is the constant ethno state imperative. After all, if 717 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: the whole logic of your state is that it must 718 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: be controlled by a Jewish majority, then the very existence 719 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: of non Jewish children is a looming threat to the 720 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: entire national project. Eliminating Hamas is a convenient pretext for 721 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: neutralizing that demographic threat through the mass laughter of Palestinian 722 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: children and mothers, in particular now in Gaza, Bibe and 723 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: the IDEF have seemingly destroyed everything but Hamas, and that 724 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,959 Speaker 1: may well have been the point. It's a great piece 725 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 1: from Robert Papa. I know you took a look at 726 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,280 Speaker 1: it as well. He talks about, you know, the body 727 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: count figures in terms of the number of Hamas fighters 728 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 1: they've killed or are very disputed. Israeli say somewhere around 729 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 1: fifteen thousand. US Intelligence says ten thousand, Hamas says more 730 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,240 Speaker 1: like five to six thousand. In any case, the amount 731 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: of support for Hamas has been predictably dramatically surged. There 732 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: has not been they were betting or there was some 733 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: analysis of like, oh, if we, you know, make this 734 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: really horrible for them, people will turn on Hamas. The 735 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: opposite has happened. There's been a like rally around the 736 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 1: flag effect. Again, very predictable and very consistent with what 737 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: we've seen historically in terms of bombed and besieged civilian populations, 738 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: and so in spite of the technological military vast superiority 739 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: in terms of the actual stated war aims, it's been 740 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: a total and complete failure on every level. 741 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I keep coming back to North Vietnam, and I 742 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 2: really recommend people need to go and read Robert Pape. 743 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 3: He is incredibly smart. 744 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 2: He's a scholar, he's a long studied air power, civilian populations, 745 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 2: World War Two. I've read stuff for a long time, 746 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 2: and since the October seven conflict, he's been doing amazing work. 747 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 2: This is a very well reasoned piece. There's nothing emotional 748 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 2: within it. It's just pointing to data. You're looking in 749 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 2: your point look together the recruitment numbers, and look, if 750 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 2: bombs could solve things, then we would have won the 751 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 2: Vietnam War. If bombs could solve things, we would have 752 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 2: won the Iraq War and Afghanistan. Guess what happened in 753 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 2: every single case is that it was counterproductive, usually unless 754 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 2: it was for a direct military purpose, and in the 755 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 2: long run, they outlasted us and they won. 756 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,240 Speaker 3: I think in the same. 757 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 2: Case, they have the will, they have the ability to 758 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 2: stay forever and to operate in the shadows, and to 759 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 2: now fundraise both and fundraise and recruit for the people 760 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 2: who have been victimized as a result of the policy. 761 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 2: All they have to do is survive. Israel is warring 762 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 2: against a quote unquote ideology good luck. Have seen people 763 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 2: try before, they always lose. 764 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: It is not just it's not just that they're not defeated, 765 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: it's that they actively Like Our operations in Iraq and 766 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 1: the you know, attacks on civilians led to a surge 767 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 1: in popularity for Iraqi resistance groups and you know, helped 768 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: to create ISIS. Our operations in Afghanistan led to a 769 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: star the Taliban was like down to almost nothing, and 770 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: they were able to rebuild and you know, be such 771 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: a formidable force that they just immediately take take back 772 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: over when we leave. Because our occupation and our atrocities 773 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: provided the moral justification and searched the support for these groups. 774 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: So our actions and now it's you know, obviously what's 775 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: happening with Israel and Gaza have actually searched support for 776 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: that group. Again, it's entirely predictable. This is something that 777 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: we've been saying from the beginning. We highlighted those Jocko 778 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,359 Speaker 1: comments from the beginning of like this is not. 779 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 4: The way you go. 780 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: If you are actually serious about taking out Hamas leadership, 781 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: getting the hostages back, you have to win over the population. 782 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,320 Speaker 1: You need them to collaborate with, You need to provide 783 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: them a different path that isn't Hamas. None of that 784 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: was done, And I don't think it's because they just 785 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 1: didn't understand and they were stupid and foolish. I think 786 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: it's because the goal was never really eliminated Hamas, especially 787 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,799 Speaker 1: from BB's perspective. Again, he's always supported Hamas. I think 788 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,240 Speaker 1: he still finds Hamas to be very useful there because 789 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: it gives him the pretext to do whatever the hell 790 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: he wants. Prolong the war as long as he wants 791 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: to be as brutal as he wants, you know, maintain 792 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,360 Speaker 1: his position of power, continue to block a two states 793 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 1: illusion by saying there's no partner for peace. All that 794 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: logic still remains. So I can't be so naive as 795 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: to think that he doesn't also understand what's going on 796 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,760 Speaker 1: here and how the idea of eliminating Hamas was always 797 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:43,919 Speaker 1: doomed to fail from the job