1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: This is now around and find out right. So like 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: so it's like, you know, you can like that's what 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: it is, like it is, you know, and you can 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: take that any which way you want. You can be like, 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: you know, you're not going to disrupt my piece because 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna suk around and find out right. There are 7 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet. As a production of I 8 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Unboss Creative, I'm Bridget Todd and this 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. So we 10 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: talked a lot about media on this podcast, The Good, 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: the Bad, and the Ugly, and it's really important to 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: me because I think that everyone deserves access to thoughtful, 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: accurate media that tells them the truth. And when people 14 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: are not nourished by good stories, it creates a gap 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: that gripters and bad actors are more than happy to 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: fill with lies and junk. And this is especially bad 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: for people that are already marginalized, like women and communities 18 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: of color. It's a real problem, and it's something that 19 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: Daniel Moody has spent her entire life trying to combat 20 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: through creating digital content that meaningfully centers the kinds of 21 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: people who are traditionally left out in ways that are thoughtful, nuanced, 22 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: and most importantly honest. I am Danielle Moody. I am 23 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: the host of Woke f and co host of Democracy Ish. 24 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: Both our political podcast one is daily and one is 25 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: weekly that I do with a co host. I'm also 26 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: a columnist for Zora magazine, which is a property of 27 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: medium Um and of political commentator using the I don't 28 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: know the Internet to try and make some sense out 29 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: of nonsense. I like, I like how you put that. 30 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: I mean, that's actually a great place to start. You know, 31 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: I'm so familiar with your work just as a as 32 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: a dynamic person who has interesting opinions, particularly about politics, 33 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: and I guess I wonder what has the intersection of 34 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: technology and the Internet and politics looked like for you? Like, 35 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: I know that you're someone who, both on your podcast 36 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: and on social media, really do a lot of the 37 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: work of breaking down making sense of the world, uh 38 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: and the people who are, you know, making decisions around 39 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: it on the Internet. What does that look like for you? 40 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: You know, It's really interesting because I think that I 41 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: have had a different vantage point into politics by virtue 42 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: of my age and when I came into doing the 43 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: work that I was doing and you know, it was 44 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: before we used to just have you know, three news sites, 45 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: three news stations right that the world was paying attention 46 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: to ABC, CBS, uh AN, NBC, and you had these 47 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: reputable um or at the time, we thought neutral, reputable 48 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: you know, white men that were delivering the news to us. 49 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: And you know, the advent of the Internet and creating 50 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: an entire social universe, creating the you know, the metaverse, 51 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: um allowed for us to take you know, the power 52 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: away from these institutions and actually create a more democratic 53 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: understanding and make up of who is reporting on politics 54 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: and what kind of analysis that they're offering. Like it 55 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: democratized politics in a lot of ways, um that I 56 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 1: think I have seen through you know, my origination of 57 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: my first podcast, which was like in the early two 58 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: thousands too. Now, um, it's it's incredible the amount of people, 59 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: the amount of diverse voices, and the the amount of 60 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: eyewitness reporting that we that we use, and we use 61 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: firsthand accounts as opposed to just putting all of our um, 62 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: all of our belief system into these institutions that have 63 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: kind of been the gatekeepers. The gates have been able 64 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: to open up wider for people that look like me 65 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: because and look like us because of the Internet. Yeah, 66 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: that's something that I've really seen a lot of, and 67 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: I think, you know, you and I are probably very 68 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: much aligned on this. But when you see people, typically 69 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: white men, who are saying things like, oh, you know, 70 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: you know these days you can't say anything, cancel culture, 71 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: all of that nonsense, I've always thought that what they're 72 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: actually responding to is this new paradigm where actually marginalized 73 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: people can have platforms that they build themselves. Actually marginalized 74 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: people can put their ideas, in their opinions, and their 75 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: their perspectives out into the world, and those perspectives will, 76 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 1: you know, people will have to contend with those perspectives. 77 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: I think that you know, traditionally, marginalized folks have always 78 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: pad We've always had our perspectives. But because of the Internet, 79 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: those perspectives are are you able to have a platform 80 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: that that you built yourself or you know, or have 81 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: have conditions were like, folks have to take what you're 82 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: saying seriously or have there has to be some repercussions 83 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: for what you're saying, as opposed to just being ignored. 84 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: And so I think that when people respond to to 85 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: you know, oh, these days you can't say anything without 86 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: being canceled. What they're actually responding to is like, no, 87 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: just more voices are part of the conversation, and that's new. Yeah. 88 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: I think that they're responding to, you know, something crazy 89 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: called accountability. That they are actually going to be people 90 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: that are going to push pushed back against the things 91 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: that you're saying. And that while we have become so 92 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: accustomed and so ingrained with centering whiteness in the way 93 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: that we see the world, that when you have diverse 94 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: voices that are here, we have a totally different articulated 95 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: narrative right than the one that has been force spent 96 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: to us. And I think that in this state where 97 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: we are right now, you know, people I've heard white 98 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 1: men say like, oh, I'm just scared, and I'm like, 99 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: you have no reason to be scared. If you're not 100 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: if you're not a creed, you have no reason to 101 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: be scared, if you not a racist, if you're not 102 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: a misogynist. You know, like, you should you should not 103 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: be worried. You should have wanted things like this um 104 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: to exist. And the fact that people are being held 105 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: accountable for the things that come out of their mouths Um, 106 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: it is not risk free right to to offer up 107 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 1: your opinions. And I think that people need to be 108 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: aware of that. And just because you are sis and white, 109 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: uh and straight does not mean that you are neutral. 110 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: And I think that we are finally at a place 111 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: where we're moving moving away from that perceived uh, that 112 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: perceived norm like, oh it because I'm a black lesbian, 113 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: then that means that like I can't be neutral, and 114 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: I'm like neutral, neutrality is false. No one is neutral, right, 115 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: And so that's that's the thing that we need to 116 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: understand from the jump, and then we can have real 117 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: honest conversations about cancel culture and accountability. Oh my god, 118 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: this comes up on the show. I'm time and time 119 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: again time again, this idea of the lie that we 120 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: tell our selves, particularly in journalism. But I think across 121 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: media that that that anybody is neutral, and I think 122 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: that neutrality is really just code for like a white 123 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: male cis heterosexual perspective, and so anybody who falls outside 124 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: of that, and I would also saying like middle class, 125 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: able bodied like like that is considered to be quote neutral, 126 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: and anybody who happens to fall out of that perspective there, 127 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: the idea is that they can't write about their own 128 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: experiences or their own communities because they're going to be biased, 129 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: when in fact, there is no such thing as neutrality. 130 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: We have just coded coded the idea along these like 131 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: incredibly like racialized gendered lines and had that dictate who 132 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: gets to have a voice for a very long time 133 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: in our in our media. Yeah, and I think that, 134 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's problematic because again, what we are saying 135 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: is that they are the default, right, that white sis 136 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: men are the default, and everyone else falls outside of 137 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: the quote unquote norm. And it's like, why do we 138 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: have this understanding of what is normal and what is not? 139 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: Why is it that when you're seeing you know, you're 140 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: listening to broadcasters and you're watching shows and they're talking about, oh, 141 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: a man was shot today, but you know that by 142 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: virtue of how they said that that it was a 143 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: white man, right, because they don't say white right. So 144 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: but if it was a black man, or a an 145 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: Asian man or a Latino, they would articulate that fact. 146 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: And so we have to move And we saw this, 147 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: and I think I saw it in a really um 148 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: disheartening way, but we saw out loud what black people 149 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: have known for so long and people of color have known. 150 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 1: As the war in Ukraine broke, you had journalists on 151 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: a multitude of of stations and network saying, oh my god, 152 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: you know, we've never seen something like this in you know, 153 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: in Europe. This is this is so heartbreaking. It's not 154 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: I mean, they have Starbucks and Instagram. It's not like 155 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: this is serial or Afghanistan. And you're just like, so, 156 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: your assumption is that the people in the countries that 157 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: you just named do not are are, shouldn't have safety 158 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: right that they that there, we should have expectations of 159 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: violence in these areas. Yet your who was the perpetuator 160 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: of violence around the globe, colonization and chattel slavery which 161 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: originated in these places, and the Hundred Year War and 162 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: all of these things, like somehow the fleeing of blonde 163 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: hair and blue eyed people should invoke more empathy than 164 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: the fleeing of brown hair and brown eyed people in 165 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: various parts of the world. And it just it was 166 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: that moment where it's just like you need to be 167 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: really careful about the language that you use and what 168 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 1: you were saying, right with saying what you said, and 169 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 1: with not right like where used to and have been 170 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: sensitized to violence in certain areas of the world because 171 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: we sell it that way, right, um, And I think 172 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: that that is incredibly problematic, and that's why I like, 173 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm so grateful to be a part of this kind 174 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: of wave of you know, podcasting and technology and how 175 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 1: technology mixes with media to move outside of the quote 176 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: unquote mainstream. Yeah, I'm so glad that you brought that 177 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: up and and a lot of my work both on 178 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: the podcast in my focuses around things like um, media 179 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: accountability and media trust, and I think you just really 180 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: nailed it, right. I think that there are so like 181 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: it pains me when I see people who fall prey 182 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: to things like conspiracy theories or disinformation or misinformation online. 183 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: But the reality is people have, particularly black and brown folks, 184 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: have legitimate reasons to be very skeptical of some of 185 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: our media, media that constantly otherwises us, media that constantly 186 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: you know, shows us every day. That the Ukraine example 187 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: that you just gave about the way that they were 188 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: speaking about you know, how folks in uk Rain have 189 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: Starbucks and their quote just like us, and how that 190 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: was different than you know, sets up this this this 191 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: dynamic where it's different than other countries. It's like very 192 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: clear to me what they're trying to say. I think 193 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: that we have not fully contended with how deeply, how 194 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 1: deeply unserved so many traditionally marginalized communities are by institutions 195 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: like traditional media, and that because that is true, because 196 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: these institutions fail us every day. It sets folks up 197 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: to be susceptible to disinformation, conspiracy theories, bad actors, people 198 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: who are selling them, you know, nonsense, because it feels 199 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: like that are our only other option. It's also not 200 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: serving us in a meaningful way, not centering us in 201 00:11:44,640 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: a meaningful way. Let's take a quick break at our back. 202 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: We already know that bad actors and provocateurs intentionally weaponize 203 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: and spread lies online and in media to stoke and 204 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: inflame tensions. But what's sometimes harder to see are the 205 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: ways that traditional media outlets, the kind of places that 206 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: you would expect to be better, add fuel to the 207 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: fire by spreading and normalizing inaccurate and inflammatory narratives as well. 208 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 1: For instance, you probably might have heard that, according to 209 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: a judge Tucker Carlson's show on Fox News doesn't actually 210 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: have to include any actual you know news. The judge's 211 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: opinion said that the general tenor of the show should 212 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: inform a viewer that Carlson is not quote stating actual 213 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: facts about the topics he discusses, and is instead engaging 214 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: in quote exaggeration and non literal commentary. Daniel says that 215 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: making our own media like she does can be a 216 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: means of creating more authentic, not to mention, truthful information ecosystem, 217 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: I would argue that, and I and I have said 218 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: many times on on my own show, that we have 219 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: an FCC, right we we we have an FCC that 220 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: is supposed to regulate the airwaves and supposed to regulate 221 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: television and radio. Um. And yet you have outlets like 222 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 1: Fox News who outwardly promote lies. Right And and while 223 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: we want to put up notations on on Netflix and 224 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: on Amazon and on Hulu that says nudity, violence, smoking, 225 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: all of these things, you know, age thirteen and up, 226 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: we don't put the same notifiers on news outlets that 227 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: are spreading dangerous lives that have cost people their lives. Right, 228 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: And so it isn't just like looking at mainstream and saying, oh, 229 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 1: my god, they're bad, but the people that are supposed 230 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: to be in charge of regulating them have decided not to, 231 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: and then they hide behind the Constitution and saying that, oh, 232 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: it's freedom of speech. And it's just like, I'm not 233 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 1: saying not to say what you're saying, but I'm saying 234 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,439 Speaker 1: that there should be a warning sign that comes with 235 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson. There should be a warning sign that comes 236 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,839 Speaker 1: with Laura Ingram. There should be a moment before their 237 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: shows go on and midway through and when they close 238 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: out that says that it is dangerous, that says that 239 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: this is for entertainment purposes only, that it is not 240 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: to be perceived as education. Right, And so by virtue 241 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: of how we have allowed these entities to survive, it's 242 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: the reason why podcasting in all of its form, talking 243 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: about a range of themes has become so popular because 244 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: you can't rely on mainstream media anymore to provide you 245 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: with the information that you need. And we saw that 246 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: readily apparent during UH during the beginning of COVID, right 247 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: like you have all of these outlets saying, chirping and 248 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: imparting what Donald Trump was saying, that it was a hoax. 249 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: Hundreds of thousands of lives were lost because of that line, 250 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: and not once again was there any lawsuit against Fox News, 251 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: oh A, n any of these places to say that 252 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: what they were saying was violent and crossing people their 253 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: lives and that they were a national threat. Nothing. So 254 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: I you know, I love the rise of kind of 255 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: this um, this form of media because it's necessary, and 256 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: I think that you're going to see more and more 257 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: of it as people just move away from television altogether, right, um, 258 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: because you're getting your information, you're streaming it in so 259 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: many different ways. I know that you have are are 260 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: a long time podcast or a long time person who's 261 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: been using the Internet to build platforms that can really 262 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: tell a different story. I feel the same way. You know. 263 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: I've worked in podcasting in some capacity behind the mic 264 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: in front of the mic since like two thousand nine, right, 265 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: And so I was doing it back in the day 266 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: when we didn't know what the heck we were doing, 267 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: Like it was like the Wild World West. I was 268 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: like learning everything that I was doing on on my 269 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: like as I was doing it. And I think it's 270 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: so interesting now to look around the space and just 271 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: see a different a different, a different vibe, right, like 272 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: it's it's I guess that that's one of the reasons 273 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: why I love podcasting and the Internet as a place 274 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: to build your own media platforms and tell a different 275 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: kind of like media story because it does feel very inclusive. 276 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: There are queer folks, black folks, brown folks, women, people 277 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: with disabilities, you know, trans folks. Thanks to the Internet 278 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: and technology, I believe we've been able to really build 279 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: these platforms that center ourselves and just allow us to 280 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: be seen in different lights. And that's that's so important 281 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: because we deserve you know, thoughtful depictions of ourselves and media. 282 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: We deserve media that that meaningfully centers and serves our communities. 283 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: You know, I had a really interesting conversation over you know, 284 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago with friends of mine because 285 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: they were talking about how their jobs are using the metaverse, 286 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: right that they are having the the what are they 287 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: the oculus, the the you know, the the oculus eyewear, 288 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: and that they are their organizations and their companies have 289 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: created alternate universes within and camp and digital campuses to 290 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: create community because they have gone virtual that they are 291 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: still roughly of workers in the United states are still 292 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: virtual and will remain that way, um because because of 293 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: COVID and how it is just transformed the way that 294 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: we were. And I thought to myself, wow, that that 295 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: is really fascinating also terrifying, right because you I'm like, 296 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, the thing about um, you know, television, and 297 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: the thing about like not being so like being in 298 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: social media, which you are addicted to your phone and 299 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: your swiping and the democratization of it all is that 300 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: we actually don't we actually carry the transphobia, the able ism, 301 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: the racism into all of these spaces. So a while 302 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: we have seen an expansion of representation in terms of 303 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: who is holding the mike. What we are seeing though, 304 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: as technology develops and we become more immersed with having 305 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: our you know, quote unquote in real life, but then 306 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: having our avatar having this other alternative metaverse, that what 307 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: we're realizing is how those issues are just being reimagined 308 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: in different spaces. And so it's like, how do we 309 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: have a conversation that is about the excitement around how 310 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: inclusive technology can be. But if we are not mindful 311 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: about how it is being used and who is using it, 312 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: that all we're doing is changing spaces, but not actually 313 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: changing hearts in mind. Oh absolutely, I mean I completely agree, 314 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: and I think you know, it doesn't matter if we're 315 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: talking about the podcast space, the metaverse, web three. If 316 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: if you are not intentional, and if you are not 317 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: really mindful from the very beginning, it doesn't matter what 318 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: revolutionary technology or revolutionary thing that you had that's going 319 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: to democratized tech or democratize democratized media. You will just 320 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: be rein like reinventing those same isms, racism, sexes, and 321 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: all of them in this new space unless you are 322 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: intentional from the very beginning. And that's why I think 323 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: that it's I will always be like a tech optimist. 324 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: I will always be excited and hopeful about the about 325 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: the promises that new technology will bring. But I'm also 326 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: a realist because I do know that we can People 327 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: can get so starry eyed and excited about new technology 328 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: and they think, you know, we won't need to have 329 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: like these considerations won't be a problem in this in 330 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: this new realm and the metaverse or in Web three. 331 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: But then I know that is not true, because racism, 332 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: like that train is never late, it's it shows up forever. 333 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: That never always time it's always odd time. My god, 334 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: it's never run off schedule. But that it's totally true. 335 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: And I think you know, I had watched UM the 336 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: documentary quoted bias uh a while back, and it blew 337 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: my mind. I was just like, my god, not even 338 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: can we think about relieving ourselves of racism? No, it's 339 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: president algorithms. I'm not like Jesus Christ, you know. So 340 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: it's like, if you're not tackling these issues, if you're 341 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: not talking about them, if you're not trying to reach 342 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: and break through the noise um, which is what I 343 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: try and do on a day to day basis with 344 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: with Woka app, It's like, if you're not trying to 345 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: reach these people, were just transferring, right, We're not changing anything. 346 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: And so, you know, we watched it with the whole 347 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: debaffle around Spotify and Joe Rogan and the fact that 348 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: oh okay, well Spotify decides okay, they get called out 349 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: for some boarding racism by virtue of supporting him, and 350 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: then they say, oh, well, we're gonna give uh fifty 351 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: black people a hundred million, Like they're gonna get to 352 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: share the pot of a hundred million dollars that we're 353 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: gonna distribute that we have given one white sisman, And 354 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: I said, who the hell was doing your pr and 355 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: thought that that was gonna be a good look that 356 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: basically you said that every podcaster of Color Right is 357 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: worth one white man. I hated that. Yeah, yeah, it 358 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,719 Speaker 1: was just it was just disgusting. But you know, you listen, 359 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: you know uh when we see uh TikTok and we 360 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: see black creators on TikTok, you know, pushing back and saying, okay, 361 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 1: So now these white creators come in, they bite our videos, 362 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: they bite our work, they slap on their name to it, 363 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden they've got millions of 364 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,239 Speaker 1: followers and millions of dollars worth of endorsements, right, And 365 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: so it's like, yes, we have all of these platforms 366 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: that we can readily access, but it's like who's able 367 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: to monetize, who's able to break through? There's still the 368 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: gatekeepers that are largely white men that I get to say, yea, 369 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: and they that's such a good point. And I think 370 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: it goes back to I mean, something that's like a 371 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: mentor once told me, is that you should always be 372 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: really careful building your house on someone else's land. And 373 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: I guess when I think about, you know, the platforms 374 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: that I that I think of as platforms that I have, 375 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, built myself, and in a lot of ways 376 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: I have, but you know, the powers that be at 377 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 1: Apple could decide that I don't belong there and kick 378 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: me off tomorrow. You know, if if you have have 379 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: lots of lots of Instagram followers or TikTok followers, it's 380 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: like it can feel like something that you have ownership over. 381 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: But while our tech platforms and Internet platforms are all 382 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: so you know, in the hands of you know, powerful 383 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: tech leaders who all kind of happened to be white men, 384 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: you really don't own as much as you think, I guess, 385 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: I would say, And so I've always tried to be 386 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: very mindful of that. That, Like, as as cool as 387 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: it is to to try to build your own platforms 388 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: to tell your own stories um yourself, it is a 389 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: good reminder that while so much of the owning class 390 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: is you know, white, straight tech leaders and tech bros 391 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: and all of that, you know, what can you what 392 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,479 Speaker 1: can you really own? What can you really have that's yours? 393 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: You know? And that's and that's one of the reasons 394 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: you know why I became independent, right, Like, for the 395 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: longest time I was doing the tap dance and the 396 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: jig for networks for you know, to see me, see me, 397 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: see me, and like show my work by virtue of 398 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: how many hits on television that I could get, right, 399 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: how many people were calling into my show when it 400 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: was still on serious exam right, And so one of 401 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: the reasons why it was important as a black we're 402 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: woman to go to a podcast company that is run 403 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: by black people, right, um, was because one, I did 404 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: not want to have my voice um uh shrunken right, 405 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't. I didn't want to have to 406 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: shrink myself to fit into other people's ideas of me. 407 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: But then realizing that even in being independent, I still 408 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: need the Apples and the Spotify's and you know this 409 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: this stitchers and all of those places to put my 410 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 1: independent work on. Right. So it goes back to what 411 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: your mentor said about building your house on other people's land, 412 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: because it's like, yes, I built this house, right, but 413 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: I still have to put it someplace and I don't 414 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: get like by you know, unfortunately don't own the apples 415 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: and the and the Spotify's and those places. So you're 416 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: still going to be behold in to those people who 417 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: get to determine your worth in your value more. After 418 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: a quick break, let's get right back and do it. 419 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: I really identified with what you just said about going independent. 420 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: And there was a time in my life where this 421 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: was several years ago, where I thought the path for me, 422 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,199 Speaker 1: the path to be where I wanted to be in 423 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: my career and in my life was sort of quote 424 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: being seen by a big traditional media outlet. And I 425 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: worked for a big news network whose name you definitely 426 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: have heard of it. I'm not gonna say here, and 427 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: so much of you know that I remember you from there. Yeah, 428 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure I don't know it. I'm I'm It's like 429 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: I don't. It's no big secret like people can people 430 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, and and no shape to them, like like 431 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: I have no paid for them at all. But like 432 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: I thought, I had really bought into this idea that 433 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: the path forward was somebody at that network like liking 434 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: me or seeing me. And so I was sort of 435 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: always auditioning, even for a job I I already had. 436 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: And when I when I look back at all of 437 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: the work I had to do, to sort of not 438 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: just let go of that job and let go of 439 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: that mindset, but do a lot of like internal work. 440 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: I'm saying, you know, I know that I have value. 441 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: I know that I have something to say. I know 442 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: that I have a perspective. It doesn't matter how many views, 443 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 1: how many clicks my content or my piece makes for 444 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: somebody else. My worth is not tied to that. And really, 445 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: you know, you described it as like doing the dance. 446 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: That was all I was doing in that part of 447 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: my life, and it didn't get me anywhere. And I 448 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: look back and I think all of these things that 449 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: would have been that would have been for me like 450 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 1: the height of success. I don't even need them anymore, 451 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: let alone want them. I don't even need them anymore. 452 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 1: The height of success to me is is having a 453 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: platform to say what I want to say and feeling 454 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: good about it and and not having to have the 455 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: pressure of like, oh, I hope they like it. I 456 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: hope it goes viral. I hope this. I hope that 457 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: you know how exhausting that was and how much myself 458 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 1: I spent on that on that dance. I guess I 459 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: really identified with what you just said. Bridget I was like, 460 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: you know it, I felt like I was on a 461 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: hamster wheel for like ten years, right, just you know, 462 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: my entree into media was around, uh, same sex marriage 463 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: was in you know, the you know the tents, right, 464 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: and you know, doing everything for those outlets, just trying 465 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: to get on television, chasing the producers, chasing these things, 466 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: making sure that you know, my social media was you know, 467 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: just right, because I didn't want to be too offensive 468 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 1: and to this and to that and too much right, 469 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: and then finally realizing that what the hell am I doing? 470 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: I have contorted myself into a water down version of 471 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: myself so that I would make myself digestible to the 472 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: white C suite and I and I just decided, I 473 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: don't want this right. What I want is to share 474 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: my thoughts and my message unfiltered, right. And if you 475 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: don't like that unfilteredness, if you need your politics with 476 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: more sugar than I am not the one right, because 477 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to give it to you straight. So it 478 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: was you know, the recognition for me. And again this 479 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: came really through the pandemic of looking around and realizing 480 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: that everything was shifting. Everything that you thought I was 481 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: was no longer and saying that this was an opportunity 482 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: for those of us in a privileged space, This was 483 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: an opportunity to reinvent and to say, you know what, 484 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: I'm dropping all of the precursors, I'm dropping all of 485 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: the caveats. I'm actually just gonna say what the funk 486 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: I want to say and how I want to say it, 487 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: And if you want me on air, book me. If 488 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: you don't, I ain't chasing you. And I'm good right 489 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: because I'm gonna say what I want to say, how 490 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: I want to say it, and miss me, you know, 491 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: with everybody else's interpretation of how it should be. Oh, 492 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: I'm so I love how you put that, and I 493 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: think I had the same thing. And for me, it 494 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: went back to this idea of stopping this dance of 495 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: trying to be everything for everybody and just realizing that, like, 496 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: what I have to say is not going to hit 497 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: with everybody, and that's okay, and that actually is helpful 498 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: because it allows me to spend time really leading into 499 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: my people and my and like who I am for 500 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: and so rather than spending all that energy trying to 501 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: be you know, exactly the right curated version of myself. 502 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: I'm it's going to be who I actually am, and 503 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: the people who are with that that will resonate with them, 504 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: and the people who are not with that who cares 505 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: like like I'm not for them, I'm not for everybody. 506 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: I am who I'm for and not who I should 507 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: be concerned about people who I'm not for. It's not 508 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: really my business what they think about me. You know. 509 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: One of the things that I still do a bit of, 510 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: and this is only for you know, organizations who align 511 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: with my with my value set and my missions, is 512 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: that I do media trainings and executive coaching for underrepresented 513 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: CEOs and executive directors. And I remember that when I 514 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: started doing media trainings many years ago, you know, it 515 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: was always about trying to present people's best version of themselves, right, 516 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: but it was also about making them palpable, watering them down. 517 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: What about thinking about what what will margin Middle America think? Right? Like, 518 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: what will this person think? Now? When I do media trainings, 519 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: I say, tell the truth? What what what is the 520 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: truth that you want to be offering up to you know, 521 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: to the to the people. Do you understand your audience? 522 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: Do you know where they are? Right? And then we 523 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: can craft whatever message that you want, but at the 524 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: end of the day, this is about telling the truth. 525 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: This is not about watering things down. We are past 526 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: the water down version um of of of America and 527 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: what we need to be seeing and doing. People need 528 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: to be activated. And I think that, you know, one 529 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: of the purposes of mainstream media is pacification, because if 530 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: they actually wanted people to be you know, riled up, 531 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: to be knowledgeable, then we wouldn't see the kind of 532 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: news that we see right like there, It wouldn't just 533 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: be you know, the three stories that all of the 534 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: networks are going to cover for a week and that's 535 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: gonna be it, right, There would be more substance that 536 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: is there. And so you know, we also have to 537 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: recognize that we're not going to be able to get 538 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: our education through the people who are trying to actually 539 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: remain in power and continue to oppress people. What wasn't 540 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: it Audrey Lord that says the master's tools are not 541 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: going to dismantle the master's house. Then that is like 542 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: to me, how I look at mainstream media versus you know, 543 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: podcasting and the new age of technology and media is 544 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: that we are using different tools to still try and 545 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: dismantle this house, but then recognizing that the house that 546 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: we have built is still on somebody else's land. And 547 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: so what is the next step? What does the next 548 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: iteration of that look like? Well, I guess I have 549 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: to send that question back to you. What does that 550 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: look like? What does the next step look like? In 551 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: your mind? You know? I just I realized for for me, 552 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: just recently, I went on TikTok, right. I I literally 553 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: just joined TikTok like a month ago, and I was 554 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: totally against it because I'm like, I ain't going on 555 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: this children's site, right like in my head, that's why 556 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: I said, I'm not going on this children's site. And 557 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: then I started to realize that, you know, it used 558 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: to be that to be considered credible, you needed to write, 559 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: right then people do. Then we we realized people don't 560 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: actually like to read. Then it was oh well, then 561 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: go on television, and then you realize like, oh well, 562 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: people's attention attention span has actually shrucked. Now I need 563 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: to figure out a way that I'm shrinking down my 564 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: forty minutes show that I do daily into just one minute, 565 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: just sixty seconds of content, because that's how people are 566 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: getting their information. So I couldn't just pooh pooh like 567 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: this this medium that felt uncomfortable to me because I 568 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: wasn't the age target demographic for it. But then recognize that, 569 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: like we as content creators need to be adapting to 570 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: where people are getting their content and how they are 571 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: consuming that content. So for me, the next iteration is 572 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: just meeting people where they are and making sure that 573 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,239 Speaker 1: I am as nimble as possible and that there is 574 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: no no right, like, no, I don't want to do this, 575 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: No it doesn't feel right. If it doesn't feel right, great, 576 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: But I don't want to close myself out of different 577 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: ways to communicate with people, because that is always going 578 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: to evolve. And for a content creator and somebody that 579 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: wants to wake people up needing to evolve with where 580 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: people are, that's such a smart way to think about it. 581 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: Like that's why, that's why I started out as a podcaster, 582 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: because it was like an emerging this is you know, 583 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: back in the day, it was like an emerging new medium, 584 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: and I was just like, I'm so excited to see 585 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,239 Speaker 1: what people do with this, and people were doing like 586 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: weird out off the wall stuff with it, and so 587 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 1: I think, like being willing to be nimble and saying 588 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: yes to new places where it feels right for your 589 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: voice to be, where it feels like like there's alignment. 590 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: I think it's really is really key, Yeah, because I'm 591 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: not trying to fit where I don't you know, I'm 592 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: not trying to make And I think that that to 593 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: just going back really quickly to UM to mainstream media, 594 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: that was the thing, is that I was trying to 595 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: fit myself into a space that did not want me 596 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,919 Speaker 1: and actually was very clear about the fact that they 597 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: did not want me, right, But I kept trying to 598 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 1: fit in, fit in. And I think that, you know, 599 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: by virtue of just having been in this podcasting space, 600 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: been in this new media space for you know, a 601 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 1: decade now, UM, it is it's really interesting to decide 602 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 1: to to follow your own beat, right, to create your 603 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: own like to figure out what works for you and 604 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: then just keep pushing it out right and you know, 605 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: and people will buy like they do. You know, people 606 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 1: people will buy, but you have to be really steadfast 607 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: and what it is that you're creating and delivering UM 608 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: and then figure out where to put it. Yeah, And 609 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,479 Speaker 1: it's like I've definitely gotten to a place again over 610 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: years of internal work and sort of like figuring out 611 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,720 Speaker 1: where my perspective. I don't want to be in any 612 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: rooms where it's clear that I am not welcome. I 613 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: don't want to be anywhere where my presence is not 614 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: a gift of value. You know, people don't like I 615 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: just have no interest. Maybe it's comes with getting older, 616 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: but yeah, but it's it's true, but it'sn't true. It's 617 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: just like you know, And I think it's because the 618 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: generations that came before us thought so hard to get 619 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: into those rooms, right, they fought so hard to get 620 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: a seat at the table. And I think that the 621 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: generations that are coming now are just like, yeah, fuck 622 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: that room. I don't need it. Like I'll create, literally, 623 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: I will create my own space, like I'm good. You know, 624 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: you continue to do you over there, and I'm going 625 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 1: to create something over here. And you know that That 626 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: is what gives me hope about about new media, about 627 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: these the ways in which we're all adapting to these 628 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: different spaces, is that it's an opportunity for us to 629 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: show up as our most authentic selves. Right, It's the 630 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: opportunity to say, like, no, I'm not gonna do you 631 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: know I remember when I locked my hair, right, this 632 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: is you know, twenty years ago I locked my hair 633 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: and people were just like, and you're gonna work in politics. 634 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,760 Speaker 1: I don't think that that's a good idea, right because 635 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: unless I was going to present some Eurocentric form version 636 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: of myself, some perm pressed form version of myself, then 637 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: apparently what was going to come out of my mouth 638 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: didn't matter, right. So I think that we are still 639 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: in a place. I mean, we just passed the Crown Act, 640 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 1: but we're still in a place where like we're still 641 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: having to justify how we look, how we sound. But 642 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 1: I think that it's a better place used to be 643 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 1: in when we're the ones that are owning and creating 644 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: the spaces and deciding where and when and how we 645 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: want to be involved, right, and like how and where 646 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: and when we want to show up. It's a different 647 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,359 Speaker 1: form of power. M h. I love that. And think 648 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: about this, like I never thought I'd either day where 649 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: we have Judge Jackson about to make history as first 650 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: black woman on Spreme Court with braids. I never thought 651 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: I see the day and here we are, And so 652 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: I think it goes to show you that, you know, 653 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: we've come to a different place where I think that 654 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: we have we're setting the standard for how we want 655 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: to show up, and I think that standard is being 656 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: dictated by us and and and not not external forces. 657 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: And I love that for us. I hope that we 658 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 1: all hope that that this is like a new a 659 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: new normal where we just accept that we are going 660 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: to show up as ourselves, our most authentic selves, and 661 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: folks can accept that or not accept that. You know, 662 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: one of the funniest things that came out of the 663 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: funniest memes that I saw that came out of the Oscars, 664 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: you know, debacle, was this is now sunk around and 665 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,879 Speaker 1: find out right. So like so it's like, you know, 666 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: you can like that's what it is, like it is, 667 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: you know, and you can take that any which way 668 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: you want. You can be like, you know, you're not 669 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: gonna disrupt my piece because you're gonna look around and 670 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: find out, right, like I'm going to continue telling the truth, 671 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: or you're gonna work around and find out Like I 672 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: think that whatever that means for you, but it is 673 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: it's saying like, yeah, I'm not trying to fit myself 674 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:39,280 Speaker 1: into your standards, right, I'm going to make my own um. 675 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: And the more like that you try and uh place 676 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,879 Speaker 1: people into boxes, the more that you're going to see 677 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,439 Speaker 1: people want to burst out of them. And I think 678 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: that if we can embrace you know, this new season 679 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: of life and expectations that we have for our self, right, 680 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: and the brands that we are building and creating, then 681 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: you know, we it will be a a new it 682 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: will be a new dawn, right, And I think that 683 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: every day is the beginning of a new dawn. Every 684 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: season offers us an opportunity to try to be better, 685 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: do things that are bolder, right, And I think that 686 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: that's what podcasting allows us to really do, is to 687 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: be bold, to be big, um, and to exist outside 688 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: of the box. Mm hmm. I love that, Danielle. I 689 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: have one last question for a little bit of a 690 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: curveball question. So one of your podcasts is called Woke 691 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,839 Speaker 1: a f what do you And it's fantastic. People should 692 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 1: definitely listen to it as well as democracy ish um, 693 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 1: But what is it like? You know? The e this 694 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 1: idea of being woke, you know, definitely started in black vernacular, 695 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 1: like that was our term, and now I feel that 696 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: it's almost become a dog whistle right, like, you know, 697 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: speaking of Judge Jackson, I remember before, even before she 698 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: was named as the Supreme Court nominee, and Biden was 699 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: just like, oh, I'm planning on picking a black woman. Uh. 700 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,319 Speaker 1: One of the arguments I heard about this hypothetical black 701 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,319 Speaker 1: woman who wasn't even named yet was that she was 702 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 1: going to be the woke choice for the Subpreme Court. 703 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: How do we get to this place where the term 704 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,240 Speaker 1: woke is now almost like a just like a coded 705 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 1: dog whistle for black And what do you what do 706 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: you make of that as someone who you know has 707 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 1: a show that that is you know, the word that 708 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: you used to describe your your own um, you know, 709 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: your your own politics and ideology. I mean, for me, 710 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: being woke is about being uh conscious and aware of 711 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: the world around you, right, living and like what does 712 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,239 Speaker 1: it mean to live consciously? Right? Not as ostriches that 713 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 1: are burying our heads in the sand uh and and 714 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: waiting for the time to turn right? And I think 715 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,240 Speaker 1: that you know what the what progressives and and folks 716 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: on the left have allowed once again is for the 717 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,839 Speaker 1: right to co op the language uh and and turn 718 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 1: it into turn something that is very positive which is 719 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 1: about you know what, what is what is the opposite 720 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: of being woke? And that's the thing that I say 721 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 1: to folks, like, why is there no pushback when they're like, oh, 722 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 1: they're gonna be the world kind? So what is your 723 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: preference for somebody to be asleep? What is your what 724 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: is your preference for us to be unconscious? Right? And 725 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 1: because what does that allow you to do if the 726 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 1: rest of us are in slumber? Right? It allows for 727 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 1: you to run rough shot and have no accountability and 728 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,919 Speaker 1: no responsibility for the things that you do because they're 729 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: nobody paying attention. So like, I think that you know, you, 730 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 1: we have to reclaim um words that we allow the 731 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: radical right to take over. And then but what people do, 732 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: like what you know white moderates want to do, uh, 733 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: and democrats want to do, is that they want to 734 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,839 Speaker 1: run from it. Oh we're not woke, you know, we're 735 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,600 Speaker 1: just like everybody else. No I'm not, No, I am 736 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,799 Speaker 1: not And that is okay, right, Like I don't want 737 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,279 Speaker 1: to go through my life asleep, and neither should you, 738 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 1: because I don't know what good comes to anybody um 739 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 1: when they don't live their lives consciously and on their 740 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,440 Speaker 1: own terms. So I think that there needs to be 741 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: consistent pushed back to that, to um the negative connotation 742 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 1: that folks have allowed um uh, white supremacists on on 743 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,799 Speaker 1: the right to to attribute to a word that was 744 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: birthed out of black people deciding right and recognizing that, like, 745 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,439 Speaker 1: you know, we live consciously. So what about the rest 746 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: of you, Because while the rest of you get to 747 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 1: walk around and pretend that like, ain't nothing going on, 748 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: we're the ones that have to look around and make 749 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,799 Speaker 1: sure that, like we're as safe as we can possibly be. 750 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 1: If black people were to walk around their lives in 751 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: a slumber, we would all be dead, right, like, so 752 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,320 Speaker 1: let let us you know, I think that it's important 753 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: to push back against against those against those negative connotations. 754 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 1: And you do it every week and every day with 755 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 1: both of your shows, And I'm so grateful for your 756 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 1: work and grateful for your voice. Danielle. Where can folks 757 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: keep up with all of the amazing stuff that you've 758 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:58,359 Speaker 1: got going on? Thank you? Um, yes, folks can keep 759 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: up with me. Woke a app is my Day through Friday. 760 00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,840 Speaker 1: You can get that on anywhere that you get your podcast, 761 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 1: whether it is on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, if you want 762 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,439 Speaker 1: the video version of that daily show, you can get 763 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 1: that at Patreon dot com, slash wi g f UM, 764 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 1: where the video show is up every single day uh. 765 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: And then you can follow me on Twitter where I'm 766 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,920 Speaker 1: extraordinarily active at D two spend E, t w O 767 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:28,040 Speaker 1: C and t F and newly to taktok uh Danielle 768 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 1: Moody Underscore, so you can check me out there to 769 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:38,879 Speaker 1: where I am getting very very little. Got a story 770 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 1: about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to 771 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: say hi, you can be just at Hello at tangdi 772 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,800 Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode 773 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 1: at tangdi dot com. There Are No Girls on the 774 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 1: Internet was created by me bridgetad. It's a production of 775 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Stricklands our executive producer. 776 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: Tara Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michaelmato is 777 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: our contributing producer. I'm your host to Bridget Dodd. If 778 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 1: you want to help us grow, rate and review us 779 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,879 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, check 780 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: out the i heeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever 781 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. H