1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics. Well, 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: best minds, and George Floyd's family has filed a two 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: and fifty million dollar lawsuit against Kanye West. What a 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: great show we have today, covers Woman Mickey Sharrell, who 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: represents New Jersey's eleventh congressional district, stops by to talk 7 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: to us about a host of issues that will speak 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: to Rachel bad and Karen Demursim. We're gonna discuss their 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: new book Unchecked, the untold story behind Congress's botched impeachments 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump. But first we have MSNBC anchor Laurence o'donald. 11 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to fask Politics, Laurence so o'donald, great to be here. 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: I am so excited. I know it's weird to be 13 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,639 Speaker 1: interviewed when you interview, but you know, it's just very 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: exciting for me. I might be more comfortable with it 15 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: this way. I find the interviewer position unnatural. I guess 16 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: that is extremely interesting. I've written to you and talked 17 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: to you about this. I'm like so stuck on this 18 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: idea that American politics seems to be getting worse. Yeah, 19 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: well you're stuck on the correct idea. Congratulations, stay stuck there, 20 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: and it's much much worse. And what's odd about it 21 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: is unlike cancer, this stuff is supposed to get better 22 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: over time. When I was growing up in a thoroughly 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: racist environment in Boston, you know, in the nineteen sixties, 24 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: you could watch, you know, from the beginning of that 25 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: decade to the end of that decade something you would 26 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: call progress, I mean real progress, but it was it 27 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: was still terrible by the way. You know, by the 28 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: end of the decade, it was still terrible. But then 29 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: you moved through the next decade, the seventies, and you know, 30 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: things were rough and they were ugly. There was a 31 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: lot of ugly stuff in there, but it was getting 32 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: better and enlightenment was either taking over or dominating. And 33 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: I just mean that, for example, just in the vocabulary 34 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: of the way the world was, which is which may 35 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: be hard for people to believe, but you know, in 36 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties and seventies, racist language was the norm 37 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: in white America. Anti Semitic language was the norm. I 38 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: don't think they even felt mean in any way when 39 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: they were using the N word. That was the word. 40 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: There was no other word, you know, for a very 41 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: long time. And I watched people who were stuck in 42 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: that language move out of that language over a you know, 43 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: fifteen twenty year period, and I watched life get more liberal. 44 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: I watched Row versus way it happened. And so I 45 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: was a kid, so I didn't really, you know, think 46 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: about in real terms the way life was before Row 47 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: versus Way. But but I understood as soon as it happened, 48 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: you know that it was a big deal, and it 49 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: seemed inevitable. It's it seemed absolutely inevitable. And you have 50 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: to know ro versus way it is as you know, 51 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: early nineteen seventies, just a couple of year years before that, 52 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: it was ill legal, illegal to sell contraception in the 53 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: state of Massachusetts. Okay, the place that everyone thinks is 54 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: the most liberal place in the planet, And maybe it is, 55 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: and maybe it was generally more liberal than the rest 56 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: of the country then, but you know, right up until 57 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: the late nineteen sixties, it was illegal to sell a condom. 58 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: Having lived through all that and watched all that, and 59 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: watched these kind of I wouldn't call them roadblocks to progress, 60 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: but slow downs, you know, like the Reagan election. In 61 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: the Reagan years become a kind of slow down to 62 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: what would have been happening if Democrats were in office, 63 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: but really just to slow down, you know. I mean, 64 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: they weren't trying to reverse anything really that had happened 65 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: in the progressive Enlightenment era. And so it's always been 66 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: moving through my whole lifetime. It's always been moving towards 67 00:03:54,440 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: this area of more enlightenment and more liberal freedom on 68 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: things like you know, reproductive rights and all up. And 69 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: to see it stopped and to see it reversed is 70 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: just stunning. And so, yes, it is worse. It is 71 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: worse right now than it was ten years ago. Yeah. 72 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: I can't figure out if this is like my personal 73 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: failing or if it's like a larger failing on the 74 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: part of all of us. But I do believe that 75 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: after Trump got defeated, I really thought, Okay, now we 76 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: can start to put things back together. But the message 77 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: that the Republican Party got was if you double down, 78 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: the base will let you get away with anything. Well, 79 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: of course, because the kind of elections that are decisive 80 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: and decisive in the thinking of the losing party are 81 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: like the nineteen sixty four election. You know, when LBJ 82 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: just crushes the Republican Barry gold Water on a combination 83 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:00,559 Speaker 1: of factors including a massive kind of UH sympathy after 84 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: the jfk assassination. You know, Ronald Reagan four Reagan one 85 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: forty nine states, Richard Nixon won forty nine states on 86 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: the Republican side, and Democrats, you know, had to seriously 87 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: rethink what they were doing and how they were approaching it. 88 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: When it's close, nobody rethinks anything, you know, and it's 89 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: like what it's what it's like, Oh, if you flip 90 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: sixty thousand votes in Ohio, John Kerry is president. What 91 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: that tells you is the Democrats didn't do anything wrong 92 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: in that election. They didn't do anything wrong at all. 93 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: They got, you know, basically the same thing as the 94 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: other side got, but the other side got the presidency. 95 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: There was no lesson for Republicans in the last election 96 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: that they've got to change everything. You know, they came 97 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: pretty close, and Trump is a tremendous turnout machine for 98 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: their vote, and so you would have had to see 99 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: kind of a giant repudiation and you you would have 100 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: had to see something like you know, Texas flip Democrat. 101 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: You know, things like that have to happen if they're 102 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: going to happen to pull the Republicans off the track 103 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: there on that. I have a friend, David from who 104 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: has this theory, and I'm not sure that it is, 105 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: but it's this theory that if you lose three elections 106 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: in a row, your party starts to really rethink things 107 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: that would be this election. I mean, do you think 108 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: that's fantasyland? I don't think any of our previous formulations 109 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: work now. And so I get what David is saying. 110 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: In the pre Trump era, you could certainly plot that, 111 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: you know, you could. You could say, look, the Democrats 112 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: lost three in a row, and then they went with 113 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: this other concept, which was Bill Clinton. That might be 114 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: hard for people to realize this, but he was outside 115 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: of the main stream of the Democratic Party at the time. 116 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: He was certainly outside of what had felt like the 117 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: dominant Kennedy version of the Democratic Party, and he was 118 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: presenting himself as a conservative Democrat. And that was just 119 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: Betham amatically considered unlikely to succeed in the primaries. And 120 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: it did. And that happened according to David's theory, after 121 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: three losses in a row. But I think the Trump 122 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: era changes all all predictability. And you know, the predictability 123 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: of politics used to be like being the local weatherman 124 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: in San Diego. It was just, you know, there's never 125 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: gonna be a hurricane, there's never gonna be it's gonna 126 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: be sunny. It's gonna be in the eighties. And that's 127 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: the story for three hundred days a year. And there's 128 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: gonna be a couple of days of rain here and there, 129 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: and that's it, you know. And so we've gone from 130 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: politics being like meteorology in San Diego to it being 131 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: absolute and utter chaos, and none of the predictive tools 132 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: work in the era of Trump. So that's a really 133 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: good point and something I want to talk to you 134 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: about because so we have all these polls. Now we're 135 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: in this like anxiety provoking lead up to the election, 136 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: to this midterm election. You know how much anxiety I'm 137 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: feeling about the midterm election? How much we why as 138 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: I I simply don't allow it. It's it's an active 139 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: will and um because um it's maddening. You can't figure 140 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: it out. So you know it's you know, a month 141 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: ago you're going to get these poles sales at the 142 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: Democrats have this advantage, and then you're gonna get one 143 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: that says Republicans have. It's way too complex an electoral 144 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: you know, chessboard to ever figure out, So I just 145 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: ignore it until the election happens. It's it's just, you know, 146 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: it's one of those things that you can, as I think, 147 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: I suspect you do, spend most of your day agonizing 148 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: about it if you allow it, or there's the sanity choice, 149 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: which is ignore it and vote and hope everyone else 150 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: does know. It's true. Historically there were times when you 151 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: really could trust polls. That is not now. Well, look, 152 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: the most shocking congressional election in history, by far, much 153 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: more shocking than anything we've seen in this century, was, 154 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: you know, Bill Clinton had been president for two years. 155 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: The House of Representatives had a Democratic margin that was gigantic. 156 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: I mean just you never even wondered about any votes 157 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: in the House Representative. You had, you had a bunch 158 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: of Democrats who you didn't need, you know, to vote. 159 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 1: We had fifty seven Democrats in the Senate and there 160 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: were very few clothes votes. You've rarely needed sixty votes for. 161 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: And so we went into that election night, you know, 162 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: with fifty seven Democrats in the Senate, a massive House 163 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: majority of Democrats, which by the way, had been the 164 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: House majority for my entire lifetime at the time. Okay, 165 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: my entire lifetime. You hadn't had a Republican Speaker of 166 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: the House since the nineteen fifties. There were no predictions 167 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: about the Republicans winning anything. And the Republicans won the 168 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: Senate and the House. They won the House of Representatives 169 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: for the first time in my lifetime. And it's impossible 170 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: for me to describe the shock to you of of 171 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: what that was. I was working in the Senator time, 172 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: and the way I found out was Bob Dole's chief staff, 173 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: who was he was the Republican leader of the Senate 174 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: at the time, called me up in the middle of 175 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: the afternoon saying, we won the Senate. And I was 176 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: absolutely stunned because no one had predicted it. There's no 177 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: pundit who can raise his or her hand and say 178 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: I predicted n So I lived through that. Okay. That 179 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: is the reason why I have never once, never, once 180 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: thought about congressional elections since ever, because it's just way 181 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: too complex. And I saw this, I saw you know, 182 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: a snowstorm in Hawaii in like the Republicans won the 183 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 1: House of Representatives. That was it was just a commandment 184 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: that I was not allowed to happen. And so you know, 185 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: nothing that happens now is nearly as shocking as that 186 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 1: in terms of surprising electoral results. No, and I that 187 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: is a really good point, and I think important. And 188 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: one of my favorite things about you is that you 189 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: and I tried to do this too. Though I don't 190 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: have the same kind of like command of history, but 191 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: you do have this really important historical perspective which always 192 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: bring in which is incredibly important because it's you know, 193 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 1: you know, it's how we got here. But I'm curious, 194 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: like with Marjorie Taylor Green, she was first a sort 195 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: of I know, I hate talking about her because she's 196 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 1: just not a person worthy of wasting time on because 197 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: but she does show where the Republican Party is right now. 198 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: Is sort of making overtures to McCarthy already that if 199 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: Republicans win the House, she's gonna want to be on 200 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: the judiciary. She's gonna want she you know, she is 201 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: going to want to be a major player. She's owed that. 202 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: How do you think that plays out, and more importantly, 203 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: I mean, what does that say. It says that the Republicans, 204 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: Congressional Republicans are the Yippies of the twenty one century. 205 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: This is as if you know, Abby Hoffman was Speaker 206 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: of the House, and you know Jerry Ruben was majority 207 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: of the you know, because they were just wonderfully fun 208 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, protesters of the Vietnam War, and they were 209 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: not the organized They weren't going for the organized, careful 210 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: demonstrations that would make a point and change people's minds. 211 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: They were going for chaos, like the camera will be 212 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: attracted to chaos. We will. We will give them chaos. 213 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: And so they tried to outdo each other all the time. 214 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: You know, the Hippies were always trying to updo what 215 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: they had just done. You know, their version of a 216 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: peace protest was to levitate surround the Pentagon and levitate it, 217 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: and they insisted at work that it went up like 218 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: an inch or something. So arth Telly Green, It's that 219 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,719 Speaker 1: stuff was never permissible in politics. You know, in politics, 220 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: you were doomed if they could ever attach the phrase 221 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: flip flop to you, if it's ever like well, you know, 222 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: he was in favor of this, and then he voted 223 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: the other way. And with Republicans, you know, since Trump, 224 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: it has just become this kind of circus act of 225 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: being outrageous. The reward and the money, the contributions come 226 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: from being outrageous and outrageous was what Rush Limbaugh discovered. 227 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: A pot of golden Trump discovered an electoral pot of 228 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: gold with Republican voters in being outrageous. And the mission 229 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: of being outrageous is to outrage you. It is to 230 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: outrage you know, the Manhattan Liberal Democrat. It is to 231 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: outrage all liberals. Is to outrage all Democrats, and so 232 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: it works for them. If Marjorie Taylor Green says some 233 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: anti Semitic thing and she has done, and you know 234 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: the Democrats condemned her, that actually works for her and 235 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: she fundraises of that. Yeah, sadly, that's the poison that 236 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: centered the system, is that, you know, one of the 237 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: parties has an electorate. And by the way, it's entirely 238 00:13:54,960 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: the electorate's fault. Okay, Marjorie Taylor Green did not create herself. Okay, 239 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: the voters of that district said, we want a dangerous lunatic. 240 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: We think that will be fun. Kelly McCarthy is the 241 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: most cowardly human being who has ever taken an oath 242 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: of office, and he's doing what his voters want him to. 243 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: And so the problem is you've got these seventy million 244 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: or so American voters who think outrage and Trump is 245 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: the thing that they want, and that is a disaster 246 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: and that is unfixable. The problem is the voters. No, 247 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: but that's not if we We've had this conversation before. 248 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: The problem is the voters, yes, but now what, Well, 249 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: you have to win at the margins. That's the problem. 250 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: So the struggle becomes you know you're gonna win by 251 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: one point. There's never gonna be you know, one of 252 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: these landslide things again. You know that's never gonna happen. 253 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: So you have to go and win by one point 254 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: everywhere you can. And you have to go and win 255 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: by one point in every congressional district that you can. 256 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: And very importantly, and this is the part that the 257 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: media ignores, you have to go and win at the 258 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: state legislature level by one point in every district that 259 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: you can. There are some districts in Pennsylvania this year, 260 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: you know, state legislative districts that can be won by 261 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: Democrats by one point. If they do, you know, that 262 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: has a remarkable effect in the country, which it should 263 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: not have, right, but the effect that it has is 264 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: it kind of assures that Pennsylvania won't go insane at 265 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: some level and try to flip its electoral votes, you know, 266 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: to a Republican through a legislative action down the road somewhere. 267 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: It's just gonna be, you know, clinging to the wreckage 268 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: that Trump has created for the foreseeable decades and trying 269 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: to win by one point. Okay, does Donald Trump go 270 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: to jail? No, Donald Trump will not go to jail 271 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: because you cannot practically jail a former president. If you 272 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: sentence a former president to jail, you're sentencing a minimum 273 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: of twelve Secret Service agents a day to jail. So 274 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: they're not going to do that. What will happen is 275 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: if he has given a criminal sentence that includes a fine, 276 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: and the confinement part of the sentence will be home confinement, 277 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: which simply means he can't go do rallies. He basically 278 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: has been living in home confinement, you know, since the 279 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: president and he they would also say pick a home 280 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: you know, because you can't go back and forth to 281 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: New Jersey and stuff, and so to be home confinement 282 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: and the Secret Service would then in effect become both 283 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: his protectors and his jailers. Jesus, you know he'll have 284 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: to spend summers in Florida. Yes, that's that is prison 285 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: to Trump. That is correct, that's it exactly, Laurence o'donnald, 286 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. This is really great, 287 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: my pleasure. Congresswoman Mikey Sharrell represents New Jersey's eleventh district. 288 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to fast Politics, Mikey cheryld Well, it is great 289 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: to be a fast politics. I really appreciate you have 290 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: a me Molly. Yeah, you have to talk really fast. 291 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: We do this all at wanted to help speeding to go. 292 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. I'm always being taught, 293 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: you know. I'm from Jersey, so I'm always being told 294 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: to slow down. So first I want to talk to 295 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: you about I'm going to congratulate you for having your 296 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: district shift to safe democratic. Thank you very much. Not 297 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: taking anything for granted here, But no, it doesn't feel 298 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,239 Speaker 1: like that kind of cycle. It just feels like so 299 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: much is still up in the air. In a way, 300 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: that my other races did not feel like this, like 301 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: so much was still so unsettled with less than a 302 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: month to the election. Yeah, it does feel like that. 303 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: I mean, do you feel anxiety at all about like 304 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: what happened in in the gubernatorial in New Jersey? Oh? Yeah, 305 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: I think everyone in New Jersey is a little less 306 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: scarred from that. Yeah, a point where you know, there 307 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: are people in districts that are far more blue than 308 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: mine that are spending quite a bit of money. And 309 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: I was on the floor with them on the house 310 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: and some somebody from California was like, well, turned to 311 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: him and said, well, you're fine, right, And he's like, no, 312 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: I'm spending millions. Like we're all we we all are 313 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: really concerned that. You know, the electorate feels very uneasy. 314 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: People feel oh like that they I mean, let's face it, 315 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: families have had a really tough couple of years. I 316 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: have four kids for school aged kids. We've had a 317 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: rough couple of years. And I think we're still um, 318 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: we're still finding our footing even after COVID and then 319 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: of course to come out of COVID and then have 320 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: the economy and the economic problems we're having and then 321 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: as a woman, and I don't think it's just women, 322 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: you know, as we talked to people across my districts, 323 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: it's really everyone. But to really feel like the protections 324 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: and the freedoms that you've enjoyed for fifty years now 325 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: just suddenly have gone up in smoke. And these weren't 326 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,719 Speaker 1: just sort of laws, but but constitutional protections. The feeling 327 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: that your rights were and should be embedded in our 328 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: constitution and to see that that's now just gone and 329 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: your children aren't going to be able to rely on that. 330 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: And I have, you know, a daughter in high school, 331 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: you know where is it okay for her to go 332 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: to college? Now? I I talked to women, what if 333 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: you get a you know what if you're doing great 334 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: at your job here in Jersey and you get a 335 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: great promotion and they want you to move out to Ohio? 336 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: Is that okay? I have a ten year old daughter. 337 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: Do I want to raise a ten year old girl 338 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: in Ohio? Right now? After we saw the horrible, horrible 339 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: situation where a ten year old was raped and impregnated 340 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: and the state basically said the response was that that 341 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: child had to bear a pregnancy to term. I mean, 342 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: I mean these are the things that people are sort 343 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: of grappling with. Yeah, it's interesting to me because the 344 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: thing that I don't think Republicans saw coming when they 345 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: were so hot to take away or bodily autonomy was 346 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: that doctors would not treat women. And you're seeing this 347 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: in these red states. Yeah, and yet they're not addressing it. 348 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: I mean, this is you know, I remember there was 349 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: a program I was listening to about a woman who 350 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: two times had a pregnancy that unfortunately fairly late in 351 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: the pregnancy, they couldn't find a heartbeat. And I think 352 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: anyone who's had a child, and many people have had miscarriages, 353 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 1: you just know that that devastation and that fear. And 354 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 1: so she she had that experience twice, once before the 355 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: protections under row were lifted in the dab's decision, and 356 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: once after. And the treatment at the hospital was night 357 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: and day between being admitted and being cared for and 358 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: given pain medication and mental health support. And then the 359 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: difference was the second time being based sickly sent home 360 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: and her husband was afraid that she might bleed out 361 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 1: and die, and almost no sympathy for that at the hospital. 362 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: And it's just shocking and and yet when you talk 363 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: to Texas legislature, you know you hear story from Texas 364 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: Texas legislators. Well, that wasn't the attention. I'm sure it'll 365 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 1: work itself out. I mean, can you imagine if you're 366 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,239 Speaker 1: pregnant right now in Texas thinking, oh, okay, just wait 367 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: till it works itself out, and let's pray to God 368 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 1: I don't die in anytime. Yeah, no, I can. And 369 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: in fact, we're seeing this in Alabama. We're seeing this 370 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: in lots of red states where doctors are refusing to 371 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: treat because they're worried about losing losing their licenses, which, 372 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: if you go back to seventy three, was the reason 373 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: that ultimately Row was decided so broadly was because you 374 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: had doctors who were afraid to trade. You had Republican 375 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: politicians deciding women's health. So I do think it is 376 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: a really important subject. But I even want to get 377 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: like further into this with you, because you have that, 378 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: but then you also have like there are some like 379 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: there are some real extremists in the Republican Party. In fact, 380 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: forty eight out of fifties states have election deniers running 381 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: in the Republican Party. I mean how do you like 382 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: just talk to me about this, like terrifying precipice we're on. 383 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, you know, I'm so sarcastic usually, And when 384 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: you said there are extremists in the Republican Party, I 385 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: wanted to say something snarky, but I didn't because it's 386 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: so scary. It's just not something that you can poke 387 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 1: fun at, because it's really really threatening to our country, 388 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: is really threatening to what we believe in. I think 389 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: what people are missing here. And I've been thinking, as 390 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: you can imagine, because I was on the floor of 391 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: the house on January six, and I was in the 392 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: group in the balcony and the gallery we call it, 393 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: and when that was the last group to be evacuated 394 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: because on that floor we could not find a safe 395 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: route out for a while. And and so I've been thinking, 396 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: you know, so much about that day and the aftermath, 397 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 1: and then watching the hearings and and how intentional all 398 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: this was and thinking about it, and I think what 399 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: people are missing, this critical piece that people are maybe 400 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: taking for granted, is this idea of why democracy is 401 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: so critically important. It's and and the reason we respect 402 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: our founding father so much for for bringing our democracy 403 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: into being is because for the first time in hundreds 404 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: of years, there's a group of people putting that much 405 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: faith in human individuals, saying your voice is important, your 406 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: thoughts are important, and you, each and every one of 407 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: you can decide what kind of government you want, who 408 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: you want in government, what you want to do with 409 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: your life, the job you want, you know. After after 410 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: they came from places and their ancestors came from places 411 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: with some monarch that was supposedly chosen by God and 412 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: was better than everybody else in leadership, they decided, no, 413 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna put our faith in humans with the understanding 414 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: that they're equal and they each have a voice and 415 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: a right to speak and a right to you know, 416 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: engage in the marketplace of ideas, so together we can 417 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: all come up with a path forward here. And what 418 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: people seem to me to be sort of indiscriminately willing 419 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: to throw away is that idea. And and I think 420 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: people feel in some of these places and on the 421 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: far right, that they're willing to do it because they're 422 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: going to get their guy into power, and their guy 423 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: is never going to leave, and it's going to be 424 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: some autocracy that that we have to suffer under But 425 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 1: I would just direct you to what life is like 426 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: under Putin. I would direct you to consider what it's 427 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: like when you don't like what the government's doing and 428 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: if you speak out on it, you could go to 429 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: jail for years, or what it's like when you you 430 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: don't get to have a free economy. Everything is filter 431 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: it up to the top to the oligarchs and they 432 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,719 Speaker 1: take everything and you you can't have any sort of 433 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 1: robust economy or middle class. I just I think people 434 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: are not taking into accounts sometimes. And this is really 435 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: a struggle because I grew up during the Cold War 436 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: and it was so obvious when you looked at the 437 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: Soviet Union. But people are not understanding what sets democracies 438 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,199 Speaker 1: apart and why it is worth everything we have to 439 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: protect it. Yeah. I want to talk to you about 440 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: January six for a minute, because one of the things 441 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: you said early on that actually came back, has come 442 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: back many times, is that you saw a member of 443 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: Congress giving a reconnaissance tour. Can we talk about that 444 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: for a minute. Sure, you have a background in national security, 445 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: you know what you're talking about. Can you expand on 446 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: this a little bit? I entered into the military basically 447 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: when I started at the Naval Academy when I was eighteen. 448 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: I went to the Naval Academy for four years and 449 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 1: then served in the Navy for almost ten years. And 450 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: I served in places all over the world, and we 451 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: would always have security briefings, even you know, in Pencil Caul, Florida, 452 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: I remember getting a security briefing and, um, you know, 453 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: you talk about seem strange things if if they're the 454 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: same person is sort of loitering at the gate for 455 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: no reason and maybe taking pictures of odd stuff. Report that, 456 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: you know that look for the thing that sticks out 457 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: and seems odd to you and don't assume that it's nothing. 458 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: You know, you have a duty to report to protect 459 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: in this case when I was in the military, that 460 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: you know, national security. And so on January five, the 461 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: Capitol which had been closed to visitors, and I I 462 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: don't you know, I think people kind of hear that, 463 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: but maybe don't get it. You know. Ben mccadams, who 464 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: was a member from Utah, had his daughter and my 465 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: daughter who were the same age, and he was showing 466 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: them around the capital and he was stopped and told 467 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: that he could be in the capital. But the two 468 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: girls couldn't and they were fifteen, they were, you know, 469 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 1: not adults, you know, they were they were and Archise said, 470 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: you know this, this is my kid, this is representative 471 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: shows and they said, no, it's closed, so they had 472 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 1: to leave. So it's really notable on January five to 473 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: see these tour groups and to see them going in 474 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 1: weird places and the tunnels, you know, and really kind 475 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: of you know, quite frankly boring places when everything shut, 476 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 1: the offices weren't open, and wandering around in these kind 477 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: of odd places where you don't normally see these kind 478 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: of groups of tourists, So especially when the capital was closed, 479 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: and I, you know, I noted it and I thought 480 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: it was odd. And then the next day the attacks happened, 481 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: the attack on the Capitol happened, and people then started reporting, 482 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: um like I just remember Jim Clyburn saying, and I 483 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: remember it because it was true. He goes and they 484 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: came right up to my office, right they knew where 485 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: the offices were, and you guys don't even know where 486 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: his office is and where my office is, and you 487 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: guys can never even find my office. I remember thinking 488 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: to myself that's right. I don't know where his office, 489 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: so I know he was right, and they found it 490 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: right away, and they had had prior intelligence. So I reported, 491 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: and I said, and I simply said, I want to 492 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: know who let those groups into the capital and what 493 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: they were doing. And because of that, some representatives filed 494 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: an ethics complaint against me and the thirty other members 495 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: who had filed that request, saying we were impugning the 496 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: reputation of the House for simply asking what those groups 497 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: were doing in the Capitol the day before it was attacked. 498 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: And you never named who that congress person was right, 499 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: because I, to be frank with you saw congress people 500 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: and saw groups. And I know full well that if 501 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: I saw a group of possibly buying supporters, I might say, hey, 502 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: how are all of you doing today? You know, exciting 503 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: to see you here? So I wanted an investigation. Sure enough, 504 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: the investigation happened with the January six Committee. And then 505 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: it turns out that one of the people, and this 506 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: is what just shakes your faith in what's going on 507 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: in some quarters of the far right, one of the 508 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: people that was caught on tape giving a tour and 509 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: one of the members of his tour actually attacked the 510 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: Capitol the next day. One of those people was Representative 511 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: louder Milk, who filed an ethics complain against me. Very 512 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: louder Milk, that's the shamelessness that you see in certain quarters. 513 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: Well it makes sense. I mean, that's the thing with 514 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: these Republicans is like they do stuff like that. I mean, 515 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: remember Biden gave the speech about election deniers, and immediately 516 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: they were like, Biden is a Nazi, you know. I mean, 517 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,239 Speaker 1: this is just the way they're doing it now. By 518 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: the way, louder Milk, I mean, these backbenchers who you 519 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: would never know existed if it wasn't for the fact 520 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: that they're involved in trying to overthrow the United States government. 521 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: Has there been any punishment for any of the people 522 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: not as of yet. Um, we've seen I think the 523 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: January six Committee doing a really great job getting to 524 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: the bottom of this. This is why we have to 525 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: all work so hard to bring people together, because right 526 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: now what's troubling is I think that's disqualifying. I think 527 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: somebody lying about what he was doing in an investigation 528 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: into why our capital building was being attacked. To me, 529 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: that would disqualify you from serving in Congress, and certainly 530 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: seems to be a violation of your constitutional duty, and 531 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: so you would think the punishment at the least would 532 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: be that he would be voted out of office. I 533 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: don't get a sense that's necessarily going to happen, and 534 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: so we will have to see going forward, as we 535 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: continue to gather more information what the repercussions might be. 536 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: But certainly it is troubling that some of the things 537 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: we're seeing now are being weighed very differently in different 538 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: districts across the nation. So talk to me a little 539 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: bit about your opponent. He looks like a standard issue 540 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: white guy, but tell me more he does, yeah, that 541 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: very short hair. He's sort of not just sort of 542 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: a standard issue white guy. He's a standard issue Republican 543 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: right now. And that I mean, his positions are all 544 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: over the map. He doesn't share the values of my 545 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: district and New Jersey, you know, despite the fact that 546 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: he says he is. He's in favor of the court 547 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: overturning Row, and he's in favor of allowing states to 548 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: ban abortion with no exceptions. That he is in fact 549 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: per choice. How does that work? It sort of reminds 550 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: me of the Supreme Court justices and their Senate hearing 551 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: saying that Roe is settled law right, and then getting 552 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: into office and and just you know, doing whatever they wanted. 553 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: I mean, he seems to me to be somebody who 554 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: will whatever he thinks it takes to get into office, 555 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: and then we'll vote in lockstep with Republicans in Washington. 556 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: So you know, here in my district, we were impacted 557 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: worse by the state and local tax deduction cap, worse 558 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: than almost any district in the nation. And you know, 559 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: it really impacts our schools, our ability to fund a 560 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: public school system. It impacts some of our communities have 561 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: a real commitment to diversity in my district, and they're 562 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: very concerned because they're seeing more people of color move 563 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: out of their district than move in, in large part 564 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: because retirees can't afford some of their taxes. Right now, Um, 565 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: we're seeing it hit middle class families. Affordability is and 566 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: always an issue here. And so he has complained about 567 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: UM the state and local tax deduction cap, but then 568 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: said he's in lockstep with Republicans and said that he 569 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: doesn't think the federal government should pay state taxes UM 570 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: in support of salt. So he really seems as if 571 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: whichever audience or whatever you know, people are telling him, 572 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: or if he's he's seeing that he's not got a 573 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: good pathway to win on one issue, he changes what 574 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: he's saying. I just want to back up on salt here, 575 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: because this is a very dumb issue that's near and 576 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: dear to my heart. Salt was originally crafted by Republicans 577 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: to punish blue states. Yes, and I'm glad it's near 578 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: and dear toar heart because I love to talk about 579 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: salt because I have a bone to pick with anyone 580 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: who doesn't think that it's a progressive value. Because here's 581 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: that there are very few states in the nation. I 582 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: think about six that run a progressive taxation system, and 583 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: New Jersey is one of them. And the way we 584 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: do that is through state and local taxes, which we 585 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: invest in some of the nation's best public schools, are infrastructure, 586 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: remediating pollution sites, headstart programs, pensions, um, you name it. 587 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: We are working hard in New Jersey to make sure 588 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: that people have a secure economic future and also have 589 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: a great pathway for their kids and their families here. 590 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: And we do that through state, local taxes. So this 591 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: is taxed income. And because of it, and because our 592 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: economy is one of the economies that really fuels the nation, 593 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: we often pay more into the federal system than we 594 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: get back, unlike states like Kentucky where Mitch McConnell lives, 595 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: which are always taking a lot of federal support to 596 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: run the state, or states across the South like Mississippi 597 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: and Alabama, who take a lot of federal funding to 598 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: run their states. So this was, yeah, an attack on 599 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: blue states, an attack on states that run these systems. 600 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: And now you're double taxing people. And my favorite thing 601 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: is how supposedly if we ran our states better, we 602 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't need assault deduction. You know, yeah, if you spend 603 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 1: less money on education, you wouldn't need it exactly. Well 604 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: that's what I say. I say, Well, look, if you 605 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,919 Speaker 1: want to send your kids to school in Oklahoma, where 606 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: sometimes the public schools are only going four days a 607 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: week because they don't have the money, if that's how 608 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: you want to run your state, then you know there 609 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,439 Speaker 1: are states that would do that for you. I mean, 610 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 1: even the blue states that don't spend on education have 611 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: really bad education. And I just think, you know, here's 612 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: the thing. And here's part of the reason we fund 613 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: the rest of the nation in places like New Jersey, 614 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: because we put so much money into education. And so 615 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 1: we have wonderful companies here, but I often ask them 616 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: because there it is, you know there, it's a high 617 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 1: cost of living to be here, And I say, you know, 618 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: why did you locate your headquarters here in New Jersey? 619 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 1: And company after company after company has told me it's 620 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: because they can't get an educated workforce like they find here. 621 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: They simply can't find the talented workforce that we have 622 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 1: here in New Jersey. And believe me, we have had 623 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: companies that have been lured away, you know, by states 624 00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: that have offered them the world because they pay on 625 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 1: the snow taxes, because they don't support education, and they 626 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,359 Speaker 1: don't support um a lot of the things we do 627 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: here in their infrastructure. And those companies often come back 628 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: because they just find that the grass is not always greener. 629 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. This was really great. Well, 630 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: I really appreciate. I did not know I was going 631 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: to get to end up on my in my constant 632 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: desire to defend salt. Rachel Bade and carn Diversion are 633 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: the authors of Unchecked, the Untold Story beyond Congresses Botched 634 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: Impeachments of Donald Trump. Welcome to Fast Politics. Rachel, Hello, 635 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: Happy to be on, Molly and Karen, Yeah, Hi, nice 636 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: to be with you. The book is Unchecked, and it's 637 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: the untold story of Congresses botched, impeachment of Donald Trump, 638 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: bodged impeachments. So when you guys started this book, did 639 00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: you think you're just writing about one impeachment. Yeah. I 640 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: was literally sitting on my couch on January six, finishing 641 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: Part three, one of the final chapters of the book, 642 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: when the instruction started, and it was just like shocking, 643 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 1: and it was like, oh my gosh, there's going to 644 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 1: be impeachment talk about this, And of course that's what happened. 645 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: We had to reopen our book and add a part four. 646 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: But it actually worked out well. Not to say January 647 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: six was good by any means. It was horrible, but 648 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: the story it continued from what we were sort of 649 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,280 Speaker 1: the story we were telling before, which is this notion 650 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: of like Democrats sort of not going all the way 651 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: to take down Trump, Republicans putting their fealty to the 652 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,839 Speaker 1: president then former president above their scruples before their scruples, 653 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: and the same characters that we had been sort of 654 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: writing about for a long time. Jamie Raskin Pelosi shift, McConnell, 655 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: you know their relevant once again, McCarthy, Yes, McCarthy, pential 656 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: future speaker. I'm curious. There's so much in this book, 657 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 1: and they're so oh many scoops. Uh. I think that 658 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,240 Speaker 1: the first thing we should talk about is this scoop 659 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: about the first impeachment and the kind of strom and 660 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 1: drum on Nancy Pelosi's side. Can you talk to us 661 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: about that? Either of you are welcome to take that question. Well, um, yeah. 662 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: We chronicle how basically Pelosi tried to be this block 663 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: and bulwark against impeachment for our about nine months really 664 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: really from the start of that Congress the being of 665 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, when Rashida Sili said, We're going to impeach 666 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: the deep mother. I don't know how much I can 667 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: say on the air, but an expletive welcome to expletive land, 668 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: you can do it. When she basically told all the 669 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: crowd of support as We're gonna impeach the motherfucker. Plus 670 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 1: you had to squish that out. Then the Mulla report 671 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: comes out, it has all these insinuations of potential obstruction 672 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: of justice, and all of a sudden at that point, 673 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 1: because part is constitutional lawlines and Congress say wait a second. 674 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,280 Speaker 1: And that's the moment when we start chronicling and following 675 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,439 Speaker 1: Jamie Raskin a group of his friends who are also 676 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: lawyers in Congress, most of them fairly new members of Congress, 677 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,479 Speaker 1: saying we've got to do something about this, and going 678 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: to Jerry Nadler and expecting that he's going to be like, yeah, 679 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: let's go, and he's like, Pelosi won't go for this. 680 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,720 Speaker 1: She's so against impeachment. You're going to have to figure 681 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: out a way to basically orchestrate a careful mutiny to 682 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: make it such a strong majority of the Democratic Party 683 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,760 Speaker 1: that she has no choice but to actually go ahead 684 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: with this. And we chronicle how there is basically a 685 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: fight that occurs over several months. It's a political fight 686 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 1: that occurs over you know, statements in the airwaves. It's 687 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: a legal fight that occurs over the filings that the 688 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,399 Speaker 1: Democrats are trying to put before the courts to get 689 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: information from redacted Muller Report, evidence that they think is 690 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: going to help them create impeachment charges and Pelosi just 691 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,879 Speaker 1: trying to stop it, stop it, stop it, until it's 692 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: too overwhelming and she can't anymore. And it's one of 693 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: several episodes where Pelosi, you know, has politics on her mind, 694 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: is worried about doing something that might be boomerang, worried 695 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: about doing something that's hard votes for her moderate members 696 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: to take and might jeopardize her majority over what her 697 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: many people and her conference were telling her is doing 698 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: the right thing. Yeah, you can't really overstate how much 699 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 1: Pelosi's fear of impeachment really sort of impacted and sort 700 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 1: of crippled these two impeachments of Donald Trump. I mean, 701 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: it was something that as reporters who have covered her 702 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: for a long time, and at the time of these impeachments, 703 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 1: Karen and I were both you know, covering the Hill 704 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: at this time. You know, we all sort of knew 705 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: Pelosi at her office hated the idea of impeachment. They 706 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 1: were worried again again, like Karen was just saying that 707 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: it was going to really hurt the Democratic Party, that 708 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: they could lose their majority, and they just didn't want 709 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: to do it. But like we didn't realize at the time. 710 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: I don't think how that influenced the entire strategy that 711 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,919 Speaker 1: we saw in terms of oversight of Trump, in terms 712 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: of pulling punches after she was sort of pushed into 713 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: impeachment and we can talk about this more on the pod. 714 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: You know, she put it on a very quick timeline 715 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: to have everything done by cool smiths so that her 716 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: frontliners could pivot back to talking about legislation instead of 717 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: investigating Trump. You know, she wouldn't let investigators dig deep 718 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 1: during the impeachment inquiry on a bunch of allegations against 719 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,360 Speaker 1: the president, like that he was profiting off the Oval 720 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: office or campaign finance volations for those hush payments. It 721 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 1: was only allowed to be on Ukraine. And because of 722 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: that fear again, she made a lot of these choices 723 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 1: that we would later learn had significant impact on repelling 724 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: moderate Republicans who you know, were privately concerned about what 725 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: Trump was doing, but also they just didn't convince the public. 726 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: Trump came out stronger after the first impeachment. How how 727 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: did that happen? Well, we tell people how So do 728 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: you think that that if she had made it a 729 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: wider impeachment and not just about Ukraine, that it's possible 730 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: he would have actually been removed. Well, we'll never know, obviously, 731 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,880 Speaker 1: because you can't sort of predict what never happened. But 732 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,880 Speaker 1: we do show in the book multiple examples of various 733 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: shortcuts that Democrats took and how they impacted key Republicans 734 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,799 Speaker 1: during the first impeachment. For example, Jamie Herrera Butler, who 735 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 1: just lost her primary for voting to impeach the second 736 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: time around, she was really concerned about what Trump was 737 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,440 Speaker 1: doing in Ukraine, and she actually in the book we 738 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: show the scene where she stands up and she pushes 739 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,439 Speaker 1: back on her leadership and says, why shouldn't I vote 740 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: for an impeachment inquiry? Like she believed what he had 741 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,240 Speaker 1: done was wrong, And we show how the leaders McCarthy 742 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: very much spin her up on all these sort of 743 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: process issues that the Democrats had. Due process was a 744 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,760 Speaker 1: big concern. Uh. They weren't allowing you know, the president's 745 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: lawyers to come in and cross examined witnesses. They were 746 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: not going to get right, which would have ultimately made 747 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: him more If you don't allow to process, it means 748 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: that ultimately it can't work right. Well, it just made 749 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, it gave a sense for Republicans to argue 750 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: amongst their fretting members that this unfair process, and so 751 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,319 Speaker 1: they were able to keep together. Um. And you know, 752 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 1: I think in terms of would it have been different, 753 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: we current and I have talked about this a lot. 754 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: We think the second one. You know, if there had 755 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,879 Speaker 1: been different decisions in the second impeachment, potentially that would 756 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,759 Speaker 1: have been the one where you saw a conviction more 757 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,320 Speaker 1: so than the first. It was always going to be 758 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 1: a long shot in the first, but you could have 759 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,239 Speaker 1: had more Republicans turning against the president and that's what 760 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 1: they could have done if they couldn't have secured a 761 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,400 Speaker 1: conviction at least. But remember it's not just about whether 762 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: it results in sixty seven votes to convict at the end. 763 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 1: It's also in what shape do you leave impeachment after 764 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,360 Speaker 1: you're done with it? Right, So you know, if you 765 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,040 Speaker 1: go through an impeachment where don't fight for your subpoenas 766 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,520 Speaker 1: in court, where you don't have any buy in from 767 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 1: the other side of the high aisle on the initial moves, 768 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,960 Speaker 1: right where where you rushed through the calendar because not 769 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 1: that you know, it's it's that you don't need the 770 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 1: time to actually investigate all the different leads what you're 771 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: trying to get it done. By Christmas, you don't have 772 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,719 Speaker 1: to worry about talking about impeachment anymore when they head 773 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 1: into the next campaign season. That creates a precedent for 774 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,400 Speaker 1: the next time of how it's gonna be done. It 775 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 1: creates present for cut corners and for pulled puncheons for 776 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 1: not using the full weight of Congress's oversight power and 777 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: their investigative power. If you don't use it, you lose it. 778 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: And that's kind of the argument that we're making is 779 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 1: that with both of these examples, especially, we're in a 780 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 1: state where they've just kind of written the playbook for 781 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,400 Speaker 1: how to do impeachment light, and that's what people who 782 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 1: want to exploit that in the future will be able 783 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: to do. The only thing, just to play Devil's advocate 784 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,440 Speaker 1: here is I mean, there was a moment before the 785 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,759 Speaker 1: second impeachment where they were like, wow, he just tried 786 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,879 Speaker 1: to have us all killed, where they might have been 787 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,160 Speaker 1: willing to, but I mean the first time, like you know, 788 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,360 Speaker 1: I mean the moment there there were not a ton 789 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 1: of reasonable Republicans out there totally agree. You know this. 790 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: This goes to though you know, do you even try though, right, 791 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 1: do you try to get any of the reason of Republicans. 792 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 1: Let's say you go after John Bolton and you have 793 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: some sort of first hand witness testimony against the president. 794 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if we could actually say that there 795 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 1: would have been zero House Republicans that would have gotten 796 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: on board with that sort of a thing, you know, 797 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 1: or that it wouldn't have made you know, Lisa Murkowski 798 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 1: so upset about it, or Susan Collins that they wouldn't 799 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,320 Speaker 1: have added to the mit Romney vote. Right, But also 800 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 1: remember it's not it's not just about you know, are 801 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 1: you going to turn a single Republican or not a 802 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,399 Speaker 1: single Republican on that. If you're a Democrat and you think, look, 803 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 1: the Republicans are all in the bag for Trump, they 804 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 1: are never going to come across to our side of 805 00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,799 Speaker 1: the aisle, you have a choice, right, do you do 806 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,200 Speaker 1: impeachment fast because you don't believe you're gonna win anyway, 807 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,799 Speaker 1: and do it or do you say, well, we're at 808 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: least going to do it right even if we lose, 809 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,400 Speaker 1: so that like the structure and the system and the 810 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 1: tool is completely you know, at fighting strength for the 811 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,399 Speaker 1: next time if we get another shot, and they made 812 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,719 Speaker 1: the former decision which tended to compromise the strength that 813 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,399 Speaker 1: they had going forward or or the president, that will 814 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 1: exist for people to actually point to and say, well, 815 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,440 Speaker 1: if they did it that way, why can't I, for 816 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: a less good reason, just making a case to the public. 817 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,959 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, with Nixon, they never actually got 818 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,560 Speaker 1: to the impeachment vote because they did such a thorough 819 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 1: job of fact finding. It took months, It took court fights, 820 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,279 Speaker 1: it took the chilens of hours of hearings to get 821 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 1: those Nixon supporters to turn against the president. I mean, like, 822 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 1: it's not easy stuff. But Democrats didn't even bother trying. So, 823 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 1: I mean that's a problem that I think is a 824 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: really good point I want to talk to you about. 825 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:27,080 Speaker 1: John Bolton. John Bolton is a really important witness explained 826 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: to us what happens here. Democrats, they sort of came 827 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: to a crossroads. They had done, you know, in the 828 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: fall of twenty nineteen, they had called in all these 829 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,480 Speaker 1: sort of lower level witnesses who had testified that Trump 830 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,680 Speaker 1: was aware and was actually orchestrating this quid pro quo 831 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,480 Speaker 1: with Ukraine to try to get you know, leverage taxpayer 832 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,279 Speaker 1: money to go after Biden, his political adversary, etcetera. But 833 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,320 Speaker 1: they wanted to get again somebody a firsthand witness, someone 834 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 1: from Trump's inner circle who could sort of put the 835 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 1: quid pro quo in Trump's mouth. And there had been 836 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,880 Speaker 1: sort of this testimony by other official Fiona Hill, you 837 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,759 Speaker 1: guys remember her. She said that Bolton knew about this 838 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:05,920 Speaker 1: and called it a quote drug deal, and he was 839 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,120 Speaker 1: really concerned about it. And so just knowing John Bolton, 840 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,360 Speaker 1: Fox News personality sort of the godfather of you know, 841 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,920 Speaker 1: this very arch conservative, sort of thinking, arch conservative being 842 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,839 Speaker 1: in the yokon, etcetera. If they had gone after him 843 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,880 Speaker 1: and put him on the stands, they could have really 844 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,400 Speaker 1: turned some heads in terms of the public, Republicans voters 845 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,799 Speaker 1: to lean Republican, maybe some Republican lawmakers. So they're at 846 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,000 Speaker 1: this crossroads and they decide not to go after him, 847 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,799 Speaker 1: And the reason they gave publicly was that, oh, look, 848 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,640 Speaker 1: Trump's trying to steal an election. We have to move fast. Well, 849 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,320 Speaker 1: we have reporting in the book that there's this meeting, 850 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,920 Speaker 1: a series of meetings, really and the real reason they 851 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,320 Speaker 1: didn't want to do it is because of Pelosi's calendar, 852 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,480 Speaker 1: you know, she wanted impeachment done by December nineteenth, and 853 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,040 Speaker 1: they decided that there was not enough time to go 854 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 1: to court to fight for people like John Bolton because 855 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,720 Speaker 1: of you know, Pelosi's decision to move quickly. They also 856 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 1: thought if they actually fought in court for testimony, that 857 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,400 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be able to impeach Trump for obstructing Congress, 858 00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 1: and that was something they really wanted to do. Can 859 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,520 Speaker 1: you explain that a little bit? So they're thinking on 860 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,960 Speaker 1: that was obviously Trump had stonewalled Congress over and over again, 861 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,240 Speaker 1: something he had done that no other president had ever done. 862 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,520 Speaker 1: Would say he was going to ignore quote all the subpoenas, 863 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,200 Speaker 1: and he did. He gave them nothing. And so Democrats 864 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:28,680 Speaker 1: wanted to charge him during impeachment with obstruction of Congress, 865 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,000 Speaker 1: that they have a right to these documents and he 866 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 1: wasn't giving them to them. But the problem they saw, though, 867 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,759 Speaker 1: was if they actually tried to enforce one of their 868 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,879 Speaker 1: subpoenas that you know, had been blocked, that there would 869 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:45,040 Speaker 1: be this lengthy court fight, and that basically moderate Democrats 870 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:48,040 Speaker 1: and all the Republicans would point to this ongoing court 871 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,359 Speaker 1: battle and say Look, this is still being litigated at 872 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,160 Speaker 1: the federal judge level, like we there's until a judge 873 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,000 Speaker 1: rules that Trump has to turn over documents. It's still 874 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,920 Speaker 1: up in the air. So therefore we won't impeach him, 875 00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,600 Speaker 1: vote to impeach him on obstruction of Congress. That was 876 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,640 Speaker 1: a big concern. So Democrats didn't want to give people 877 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,719 Speaker 1: that off ramp, so they said, forget the court fight. Um, 878 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,880 Speaker 1: I want to ask you, I have another question about Bolton, um, 879 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:21,840 Speaker 1: which is which is this strange story, uh that Senate 880 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,080 Speaker 1: Republicans knew Trump was trying to leverage you coin aid 881 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,200 Speaker 1: and uh, can you tell us a little bit about 882 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,319 Speaker 1: this story because this is super interesting. I mean sure, Look, 883 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,120 Speaker 1: John Bolton is somebody who's got a lot of relationships 884 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,000 Speaker 1: with people in capital health and so remember at the time, 885 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,040 Speaker 1: there was a lot of stuff going off the rails 886 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,400 Speaker 1: on the foreign policy front, and he was talking with 887 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,719 Speaker 1: various members of the Senate, especially about Trump wanting to 888 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,439 Speaker 1: pull troops out of Afghanistan early, and they were doing 889 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,239 Speaker 1: everything they could to try to, you know, hold him 890 00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,160 Speaker 1: back from doing that. And as they were having those conversations, 891 00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 1: Bolton is also telling them about, hey, there's this other 892 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,400 Speaker 1: of going on with Kray that you might want to 893 00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,839 Speaker 1: look at too, which meant that figures like you know, 894 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,920 Speaker 1: Lindsey Graham were clued in early to stuff that was happening. 895 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:12,200 Speaker 1: And Ron and On right, and and Ron john too. Yeah, 896 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,120 Speaker 1: so they had this early heads up and thought that 897 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,200 Speaker 1: you know that that is part of what motivated their 898 00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:22,240 Speaker 1: initial maneuvers to try to undo it before it became really, really, 899 00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,880 Speaker 1: really bad. At one point when Ron Johnson goes to 900 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,640 Speaker 1: you know, his Democratic counterparts on the Senate Flori to 901 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,560 Speaker 1: basically be like, I need your help. You need to 902 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,319 Speaker 1: do something in the appropriations bill because I'm not getting 903 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,640 Speaker 1: anywhere with the White House. And so it just shows 904 00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,920 Speaker 1: you that like this was not that surprising, and it 905 00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaker 1: was also it shocked and repulsed a lot of Republicans 906 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,000 Speaker 1: or key Republicans that then would later, you know, excuse 907 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,880 Speaker 1: and dismiss it. This bit of data is fascinating to 908 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,040 Speaker 1: me because a it makes me think Ron and On 909 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,680 Speaker 1: is not an abject moron. And then he's actually, I 910 00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:56,640 Speaker 1: know you guys are nonpartisans, so I'm not going to 911 00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,920 Speaker 1: ask you. You can just listen to me safe partisan thing. 912 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,160 Speaker 1: That's shocking to me like he really was sort of 913 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,839 Speaker 1: trying to get Trump to do the right thing. I mean, look, 914 00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,000 Speaker 1: Ron Johnson has always been somebody who's paid a lot 915 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,719 Speaker 1: of attention to Ukraine. He was in that little he 916 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,759 Speaker 1: was the only member of Congress I think, in that 917 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,600 Speaker 1: group that went to Zelenski's inauguration, and so, you know, 918 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,160 Speaker 1: before he became fully in the bag for defending Trump 919 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,799 Speaker 1: and protecting him from all accusations of any ill will 920 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,560 Speaker 1: or doing, he was somebody was pretty active about making 921 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,080 Speaker 1: sure that Ukrainians got recognized and trying to change Trump, 922 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,799 Speaker 1: change Trump's mind about it. So I think in that 923 00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,000 Speaker 1: scene that you're pointing out, you're seeing kind of the 924 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,359 Speaker 1: last gasps of Ron Johnson trying to make the right 925 00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,680 Speaker 1: thing happen before it's going to become such a political 926 00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:39,960 Speaker 1: thing that he's going to flip and go to the 927 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,160 Speaker 1: other side. Yeah, but we should also mention, though, in 928 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,320 Speaker 1: that same anecdote we have in the book, he's too 929 00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,640 Speaker 1: chicken to call foul publicly himself. You know, he goes 930 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:54,440 Speaker 1: to Democrats and we've got a problem, and you call foul. 931 00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,600 Speaker 1: So I mean, yes, he was concerned, but did he 932 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,040 Speaker 1: he could have done more publicly, I doted to return, 933 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:08,239 Speaker 1: that's Charlie Sykes's name for him, not mine, by the way, okay, Um, 934 00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,120 Speaker 1: I wanted to say one more thing about your question 935 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,840 Speaker 1: about Bolton and Republicans. I mean, we have reporting in 936 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,960 Speaker 1: the book that shows and indicates that the real reason 937 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,200 Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell did not want to call witnesses was because 938 00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,200 Speaker 1: of a fear of what John Bolton would say. I mean, 939 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,080 Speaker 1: there was um, you know, he privately him and his 940 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,040 Speaker 1: staff had been asking the White House like, what do 941 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,640 Speaker 1: you know about what John Bolton says like or what 942 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,759 Speaker 1: he knows and what he could say, like is does 943 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,480 Speaker 1: he have any damaging information that could change the outcome 944 00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,200 Speaker 1: of this trial? And over and over again we showed 945 00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,280 Speaker 1: that Patsy Baloney sort of like dismissed him, don't worry, 946 00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,200 Speaker 1: like there's nothing there, blah blah blah. And then when 947 00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,480 Speaker 1: that New York Times story breaks in the middle of 948 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:54,239 Speaker 1: the impeachment, first impeachment trial, there was this total scramble 949 00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,359 Speaker 1: by Mitch McConnell to sort of right the ship when 950 00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,920 Speaker 1: he was starting to lose his members, who are like, 951 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,359 Speaker 1: how can we not call John Bolton? Well, he knew 952 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,640 Speaker 1: if John Bolton came in, they would be in big trouble. 953 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,120 Speaker 1: So he did his utmost and we have like a 954 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,760 Speaker 1: thorough TikTok in the book about how he got people 955 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,160 Speaker 1: on line to vote against witnesses. This is so interesting. 956 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,719 Speaker 1: Tell me something in this book that you were like, 957 00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,800 Speaker 1: holy shit, I think. I mean, we've been talking a 958 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,319 Speaker 1: lot about impeachment one. I think that one of my 959 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:22,600 Speaker 1: more holy ship moments really comes from the end of 960 00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,480 Speaker 1: impeachment to you know, we wek chronicle and minute by 961 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,600 Speaker 1: minute detail about how there was this moment where the 962 00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,480 Speaker 1: Democrats who were prosecuting Trump in the second impeachment trial, 963 00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,040 Speaker 1: got the Senate to vote for them, said saying that 964 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,120 Speaker 1: they could have witnesses called witnesses to the trial. And 965 00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,920 Speaker 1: it's like this tale of you know, lost hours basically 966 00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,040 Speaker 1: that could have made everything go in a different direction, 967 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,719 Speaker 1: where you know, Jamie Harry Butler wakes up on the 968 00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,040 Speaker 1: West Coast to find out, Oh my goodness, yes, I 969 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,799 Speaker 1: told the world about the conversation Kevin McCarthy had with 970 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:53,560 Speaker 1: Trump where he said, well, Kevin, I guess they care 971 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:55,400 Speaker 1: a lot about more more about me than you do 972 00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,360 Speaker 1: about on January six, right, But and she knows that 973 00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,960 Speaker 1: people are trying to call her to get her to testify, 974 00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,080 Speaker 1: and maybe she'll be the opening domino that makes all 975 00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,480 Speaker 1: these other GOP witnesses come forward and fall right. But 976 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,719 Speaker 1: she calls the House Counsel Doug Letter, the person Pelosi's 977 00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,120 Speaker 1: handpicked to be the lawyer for the House, asks for advice. 978 00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:13,719 Speaker 1: He won't give it to her. He never passes on 979 00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,680 Speaker 1: the message. Jamie Raskin, she's trying to find a lawyer 980 00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,560 Speaker 1: to help her figure out what she should do. And 981 00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,040 Speaker 1: then they fold their cards two hours later, and it's like, oh, 982 00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,360 Speaker 1: my goodness, if you'd waited even just twenty four more hours, 983 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,040 Speaker 1: could things have been totally different? And there's moment and 984 00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, and and had those all those Republicans come forward, 985 00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:34,160 Speaker 1: the same Republican witnesses that are coming forward now for 986 00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,440 Speaker 1: the January six committee hearings, you know, would that have 987 00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,480 Speaker 1: been enough to change Mr McConnell's mind. And had you 988 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,080 Speaker 1: changed his mind, wouldn't have many more Republicans followed. So 989 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:48,160 Speaker 1: just these moments where like human failings and and misscommunications 990 00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:51,120 Speaker 1: and letters that were like romance novel stuff right where 991 00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,400 Speaker 1: it all kind of rides and falls on that, and 992 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,279 Speaker 1: that's what ends up leading you with a second impeachment 993 00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:00,040 Speaker 1: precedent for doing it without taking all these measures, it 994 00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,480 Speaker 1: leaves you in a second situation where Trump is acquitted 995 00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,320 Speaker 1: for a second time, And how different could that impeachment 996 00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,840 Speaker 1: have been? And then just like the setup precedent for 997 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,080 Speaker 1: the rest of the history of impeachment had been at things, 998 00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,759 Speaker 1: just had there not been those miss connections. That was 999 00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,600 Speaker 1: my holy ship moment too. I mean, like, I remember 1000 00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,120 Speaker 1: watching the final day of the trial from my house, 1001 00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,680 Speaker 1: and when Jamie Raskin walked on the floor and called 1002 00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,600 Speaker 1: witnesses and shocked everybody who thought he was going to 1003 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,800 Speaker 1: just give his closing arguments. I remember running around my 1004 00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:29,280 Speaker 1: house screaming like, oh my gosh, I saw this coming. 1005 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:33,000 Speaker 1: I saw the coming. Jamie Watkin is a huge, huge 1006 00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,279 Speaker 1: character in our book. He's the guy who's always like, 1007 00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,759 Speaker 1: we cannot leave a single stone unturned. We have to 1008 00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,640 Speaker 1: do our duty, we have to we have to investigate Trump. 1009 00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,120 Speaker 1: I'll pull all the threads and I you know, I 1010 00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,000 Speaker 1: was not surprised when he did that, But then like 1011 00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,440 Speaker 1: two hours later, all of a sudden, there folding and 1012 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,560 Speaker 1: our reporting indicates that and we have this in the book, 1013 00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,359 Speaker 1: Like there was a lot of pressure on him from 1014 00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,320 Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer and Truck Schumer's counsel, who the previous weeks 1015 00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,759 Speaker 1: had been basically like outbeating Raskin and his team not 1016 00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,280 Speaker 1: to call witnesses and to do it in a certain 1017 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,720 Speaker 1: way that McConnell wanted the trial to go. The White 1018 00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,160 Speaker 1: House turned away and snubbed Raskin's team when they were 1019 00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,719 Speaker 1: trying to get, you know, information about whether they could 1020 00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,360 Speaker 1: subpoena the Secret Service and would the Biden White House 1021 00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:20,080 Speaker 1: allow that, would they waive executive privileged so they could 1022 00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,520 Speaker 1: call in, you know, these Trump folks to testify in 1023 00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:26,720 Speaker 1: the trial, to try to turn Republicans away from Trump 1024 00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,160 Speaker 1: in his most vulnerable moment. And again they got snubbed 1025 00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:32,319 Speaker 1: by the White House. So that was just it's just 1026 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,920 Speaker 1: so surprising because Democrats they talked about January six and 1027 00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,239 Speaker 1: how terrible it was for the country, and like it was, 1028 00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:40,720 Speaker 1: it was horrible, and yet when it came to actually 1029 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,680 Speaker 1: trying to do something about it, they folded their cards 1030 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,000 Speaker 1: too early. What about the night of January six, you know, 1031 00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,440 Speaker 1: there was there was Jamie Raskin and his friends had 1032 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,960 Speaker 1: impeachment articles ready to go. They took them to Senny 1033 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,799 Speaker 1: Lawyer and Nancy Pelosi on the House where we document this. 1034 00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:57,279 Speaker 1: What if she had said, instead of no, I'm not 1035 00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:59,560 Speaker 1: going to do that, said okay, let's do this now, 1036 00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:02,879 Speaker 1: when Kevin McCarthy was still angry, when all the Republicans 1037 00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,319 Speaker 1: were still hurt, before they had a chance to have 1038 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,040 Speaker 1: Trump and his machine pulled them back from that brink. 1039 00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,080 Speaker 1: What if that had been the opening domino. Everything could 1040 00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:15,120 Speaker 1: have been different after that point to so interesting. Thank 1041 00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,840 Speaker 1: you both so much. That was great. Thank you, thanks 1042 00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:27,880 Speaker 1: for having us on, Molly Molly, John Fast, Jesse Cannon. 1043 00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,720 Speaker 1: I think we were an early canary in the coal 1044 00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:34,680 Speaker 1: mine of saying that if the House GOP retakes the 1045 00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,400 Speaker 1: House in the mid terms, the looney squad, Marjorie Taylor Green, 1046 00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,280 Speaker 1: bow Bert and all those freaks are gonna be running things. 1047 00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:47,880 Speaker 1: Certainly they think so. Marjorie Taylor Green, Polly math scientist, 1048 00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:58,800 Speaker 1: spokes stateswoman, Barrel hogs hog hunter, athlete, scholar, has decided 1049 00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:03,000 Speaker 1: that she leaves that she is the future of the 1050 00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:10,760 Speaker 1: Republican Party, and she has told one Kevin McCarthy that 1051 00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:15,600 Speaker 1: she's gonna have a big job in the Republican Congress 1052 00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:19,640 Speaker 1: if that comes to pass, and she considers herself, she 1053 00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,680 Speaker 1: thinks she should be on the judiciary. She feels that 1054 00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,240 Speaker 1: people have been quite mean to her, and so she's 1055 00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,840 Speaker 1: owed that by the way, I love these people. She 1056 00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:32,200 Speaker 1: feels she's owed that. She has decided that she is 1057 00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,480 Speaker 1: going to get hers. So this is the moment of Fuccory. 1058 00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:39,439 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy, a coward and a moron, will have to 1059 00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:43,440 Speaker 1: stand up to Marjorie Taylor Green, who is just a moron. 1060 00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,240 Speaker 1: We'll see how this plays out. I mean, good luck 1061 00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,320 Speaker 1: to both of them. It's a hard to pick a 1062 00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,240 Speaker 1: side here. Did you see in her debate the other 1063 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,640 Speaker 1: night with Marcus Flowers that she said her husband has 1064 00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:58,040 Speaker 1: all the proof of voter fraud in the election that 1065 00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:00,760 Speaker 1: could overturn the election for Mr tru Is that the 1066 00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,560 Speaker 1: husband she allegedly cheated on. That would be him as 1067 00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:09,520 Speaker 1: opposed to her tantric sex guru. Right, congratulations, Marjorie Taylor Green, 1068 00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:14,720 Speaker 1: you earned it again. That's it for this episode of 1069 00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:18,560 Speaker 1: Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to 1070 00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,439 Speaker 1: your the best minds and politics makes sense of all 1071 00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:25,080 Speaker 1: this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard. Please send 1072 00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,800 Speaker 1: it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And 1073 00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:29,400 Speaker 1: again thanks for listening.