1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye. 2 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank 3 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: you so much for tuning in. We're glad to have you. 4 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: But before you listen to this episode, if you have 5 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: not yet listened to part one of the Exploits of 6 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: mad Jack Churchill, please go ahead and listen to that 7 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: part before you listen to this episode so you know 8 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: what's going on totally. You might be asking yourself, why 9 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: did you make it two parts? Guys, Well, we gotta 10 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: do two of these a week, and sometimes we just 11 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: have to do ourselves a favor and make the occasional 12 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: two partner. But I think this one is perfect for 13 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: it because there's a lot to it, a lot to unpack, 14 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: lots of cool details and Quentin Tarantino esque blood bathy 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: scenarios involved in this man's life, so absolutely worthy of 16 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: a two parter. We bless you, mad Jack with a 17 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: two parter. We had to learn about the bagpipe too, 18 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: so that took a second last episode. I'm Ben, I'm Nolan. 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: We were both pretty good. Now we're all right. Yeah, 20 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 1: I think the coffee is kicking in. That's our super 21 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram on the ones and zeros, Casey, how 22 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: you doing doing great? So good? Great? I mean you 23 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: could be you know, here in the States, it's weird 24 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: because a lot of my friends who are from different 25 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: parts of the world always asked me about the American, 26 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: especially the Southern American habit of asking people how they're doing, 27 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: because in a lot of countries and a lot of cultures, 28 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: you you don't ask people that unless you really want 29 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: to know. And here the correct answer is like what 30 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: you just say, case like great? Fine? Yeah? Do you 31 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 1: ever say like not so great? It could be better? 32 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: I don't want to borre you with the details, but 33 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: I will Well, we live in corporate America to where 34 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: we record this stuff, so it's amazing what you can 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: get away within the break room. I'm a big fan 36 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: of just uh, you know, someone's given up on the 37 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: day if you say, hey, how's it going and they say, oh, 38 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: you know, living the dream or like Mondays, got a 39 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: bad case of the Mondays? You know. I gotta say, though, Ben, 40 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: starting off record this peek behind the curtain, we do 41 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: these back to back, um, so it's still Monday, just 42 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: like it was when we did part one. Of mad Jack, 43 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: And we don't typically record Mondays at ten am, but 44 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: you've been out of town for a bit and we're 45 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: kind of playing a little catch up, um. And it's 46 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: a nice way to set the tone for the day, 47 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: being here in the shipping container, the sweltering, smelly shipping 48 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: container with you, uh and super producer Casey Pegram out 49 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: there peering through the glass. It warms my heart. It 50 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 1: really gives me a good way to kick off a Monday. 51 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: So I don't have a case of the Mondays awesome uh. 52 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 1: And if I do, it's a good thing. It's a 53 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: disease that I relish. Time zones are so messed up 54 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: for me right now. Man, it's probably gonna be like 55 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: four thirty am on a Saturday for me for most 56 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: of the week. Mad Jack, though, this is a guy 57 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: who lives in the moment. When we last left off 58 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: with the Adventures of Lieutenant Colonel Churchill, he was in 59 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: his prime. He was seen as a living icon for 60 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: the Allied forces, especially the British, and he was in 61 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: charge of the Number two Commando and the Number two 62 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: Commando they were literally, I think I can say this 63 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: on this show. They were badasses. I could say badasses 64 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: on the show, right, and you don't have to ask 65 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: permission for me to say badasses. I mean, we just 66 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: the science teachers that we earlier built such a great 67 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: relationship with During the Mopemba effect, when I said science 68 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: was a sham, we were obviously We're obviously joking. I 69 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: think we were obviously joking. Oh, we were absolutely obviously. 70 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: I think we're both big fans of science. Yeah, it's 71 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: it's the reason podcast can happen. So anyway, mad Jack Churchill, 72 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: he is as much of a symbol as he is 73 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: a soldier and a leader. And as you mentioned in 74 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: our previous episode NOL, this comes to a head at 75 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: the Battle of Salerno in nineteen forty three. The Number 76 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: two Commando group is tasked with stopping Germans from placing 77 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:27,799 Speaker 1: artillery fire on the western half of the bay, and surprise, surprise, 78 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: mad Jack is the man in charge of the final 79 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: counter attack. We we set up this episode with a 80 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: question at the end of part one. Here's the thing. 81 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: Mad Jack told his forces to shout something when they attacked, 82 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,119 Speaker 1: and it was part of this big, this big strategy 83 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: that he came up with. It that he's still sort 84 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: of famous for because you know, launching a counter attack 85 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: is tough. Someone else's all ready sort of controlling the field. 86 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: So what did he do well? He did quite a lot. 87 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:10,119 Speaker 1: Ben Uh. Here at the Battle of Salerno. He had 88 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: a strategy in mind. He cut his men up into 89 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: sit not not cut them up literally with his broad sword. 90 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: Split them up is probably a more appropriate word, into 91 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: six columns flanks, right, parallel columns under the cover of night. 92 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: And the part of the field in which they were 93 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: fighting was really densely overgrown. So his counter attack was 94 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: very unlikely to catch the Germans off guard because of 95 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: all the crunching and you know, chopping through foliage they 96 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: would have had to do to to get to them, right, 97 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: So he needed an edge, didn't he? Yes, this is 98 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: the great this is the greatest part. Uh. This was 99 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: cracking me up over the weekend. Here's what Majack does. 100 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: He says, all right, we can't go in there quietly, 101 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: we can't be subtle. So guy, I want you to 102 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: get a running start, and when you attack, I want 103 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: you all to scream commando. I'm sorry, what just scream commando? 104 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: Which is what? What is that film? I think it's 105 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: with Wolf Farrell where he's doing Parker but yelling Parker 106 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,239 Speaker 1: while he does it. Well, that's also in the office, 107 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: doesn't office. That's what I'm thinking, like, yeah, yeah, he 108 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: basically makes them yell commando while they're doing commandos, and 109 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: also not wearing underpants. As it turns out, they're going 110 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: commando yelling. I never understood that. Why Why is going 111 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: commando wearing no underpants? I don't know, man, It's just 112 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: sometimes life gets too real. You don't have time to 113 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: wash your unmentionable government issued skivvy's. Yeah work, you don't 114 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: you just uh yeah, you gotta cut down to the essential, 115 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: that's right. I think it has to do with maneuverability. Perhaps, 116 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: you know, if you're not wearing any breeze, you can 117 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: you got a little more wiggle room. Well, okay, that 118 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: sounds funny. I don't know if that, but I would 119 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: I would think the opposite though, because you know, if 120 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: you've got if you got your Australia just going willy 121 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: nilly everywhere, you might have some maneuverability, but you're also 122 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: gonna be more vulnerable. Right. How do you think the 123 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: science teachers are going to feel about this talk? Well, 124 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: the geography teachers might have a problem with Little Australia. Yeah, 125 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: not geographically accurate. Uh no, but it's true they yelled commando. 126 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: It really is like the braveheart freedom kind of thing, 127 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, so again, like they know that 128 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: they're not going to be they're not going to be 129 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: able to do a covert kind of approach, so let's 130 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: just take it all the way in the other direction, 131 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: right and just freak them out. It's really a kind 132 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: of a theater of the mind almost right, where you're 133 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: catching them off guard in a different way by like 134 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: surprising them literally by screaming this thing. Well, who would 135 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: do that? What's going on? And think think about this too. 136 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: There are some practical things. A lot of these guys 137 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: in the German forces don't speak English, so they may 138 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: not know the word commando exactly. It sounds like an 139 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: English word. But then also this keeps the Allied forces 140 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: from shooting each other. They can't see each other, so 141 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: they know not to shoot in the direction of someone 142 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: yelling command So are they yelling at just like repeatedly? 143 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: Is it just the one time I think on the 144 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: initial charge that I think they might all be yelling 145 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: commando the whole time, but it works, so they actually 146 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: take almost a hundred and forty prisoners, and during this 147 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: time is still not enough for Churchill. He decides to 148 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: sneak out from camp one night with his corporal. And 149 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: this is the next Tarantino moment, casey, if you do 150 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: the honors. Churchill and his corporal walk towards the town. 151 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: They hope they're just going to catch a straight German 152 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: or two that will be enough for their blood lust. 153 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: But then they hear Germans digging all around them, and 154 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: so they have a cigarette lit that's the only source 155 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: of light. They sneak up on two Germans and picture this, 156 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: Churchill is coming out of the darkness. All you see 157 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: is like the faint life from the cigarette, the ember 158 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: of the cigarette, which kind of like you know, illuminates 159 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: and then dims with each drag, right perfect, what do 160 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: they see? What they see is, for all intents and purposes, 161 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: an insane man coming out of the darkness, sword aloft, 162 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: swinging it hither and thither um. And then he ordered 163 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: the men who were obviously peeing their pants um to 164 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: you know, put their hands up, and of course they complied, 165 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: because what else are you gonna do it was it 166 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: was a stick up with a sword. It's they didn't 167 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,719 Speaker 1: even fight at that time. They eye conjecture that they 168 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: had already uh that they already knew about matt Jack. 169 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: Perhaps his reputation preceded him and they thought, this is 170 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: like being on the night shift of a construction crew 171 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: and then Batman comes to confront you. I have to 172 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: wonder if the character and glorious Bastard's played by Eli Roth, 173 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 1: the bear Jew was in some way based on mad Jack, 174 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: because again, you know just that because the deal with 175 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: that character was he used in an achronistic weapon. It's 176 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: a baseball bat, right, and this is very similar to 177 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: mad Jack. We don't really have any accounts of him 178 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: like unceremoniously murdering Nazis and hacking them to bits with 179 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,719 Speaker 1: his sword, but I'd like to believe that happened a 180 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: time or two. Yeah, that's the thing. We have to 181 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: remember that a lot of the reporting of Churchill's adventures 182 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: came from Allied sources that we're going to definitely spin 183 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: the narrative to serve their proper because it's still a 184 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: war crime if you murder, even if it's a Nazi. 185 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: You know, you're supposed to take prisoners. That's sort of 186 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: the rules. I hope it's not a hot take, but 187 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: I was always under the impression that murder in general 188 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: was not not a good look. Oh no, it's true. Agreed, agreed, 189 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: But but you're right, you're right there. There's probably a 190 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: bit of um, a bit of embellishment, and maybe maybe 191 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: we're suppressing some of the uglier deeds. But war as 192 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: war and war as hell. So we know that he 193 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: did take prisoners in this case, he didn't kill either 194 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: of those guys. He left one prisoner with his corporal 195 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: and he took the other with him, using him as 196 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: a human shield, which I think is is actually a 197 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: war crime. I think it is. Yeah, well, if it's 198 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: a civilian, it's a war crime. So this guy was 199 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: an approved human shield, I guess. So, yeah, he was 200 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: a soldier. So we should say we are not experts 201 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: on the Geneva conventions. So Churchill takes his prisoner, turns 202 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: human shield and goes to the other Germans who are digging, 203 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: and again they're they're just these guys are not expecting 204 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: a war. They're they're digging like trenches or something. What 205 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: are they digging trenches? Fortifications? Probably something even Yeah, this 206 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: wasn't the most glorious job. And then he still again 207 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: he does not have a gun. He just has this 208 00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: sword and he's walking around taking prisoner is kind of 209 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: on a one by one or group by group basis. 210 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: By the end of it, he has forty two prisoners. Again, 211 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: he does not have a gun. He has one person 212 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: with a sword, albeit a large sword, and he's scaring 213 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: forty two prisoners. He marches them all back carrying their 214 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: own weapons. They had weapons, by the way, it's kind 215 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: of had a momentary lapse of reason, as Pink Floyd 216 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: would like to say, where they just forgot because of 217 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: the giant sword and the scary man. Yeah, I love 218 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: this detail. Their wounded. Uh, they dragged them and like 219 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: bring out your dead Monty Python ask cart behind them. 220 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 1: He's making them do all the work. He's one man 221 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 1: marching them in all. I don't understand that this does 222 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: almost sound like propaganda. This is almost too good to 223 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 1: be true. Forty two people with guns, they have rifles. 224 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: He later says something like, well, I always make my 225 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: prisoners carry their own weapons. Slows them down for me. 226 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: Come on, man, Yeah, it's a bit much, but gosh, 227 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: I love this character and I can't believe there hasn't 228 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: been some kind of, you know, dramatization of this guy's 229 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: exploits because it is. It is good stuff, good fodder 230 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: for cinema. I often think, I feel like we're doing 231 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: so much leg work for studios these days. It's probably 232 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: about once a month I run into a story of 233 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: ridiculous history that I think should be a film. Agreed, Right, Yeah, 234 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: it's weird how many are not films. I mean, Hollywood 235 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: is thirsty for stories. You know, maybe we should reach 236 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: out to some folks and see and get EP credits. Yeah, 237 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: and they're finally they're finally being less gun shy about 238 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: original stories, you know, Agreed, Ben, I don't know if you. 239 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: I don't think he pointed this out, but they were 240 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: carrying their own weapons, but he made sure to pull 241 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: the firing pins or the bolts or whatever. Important yes, 242 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: important detail. I did not mention that he did have 243 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: them take the rifle bolts out. But still, oh no, 244 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: a gun is a gun. I mean, I'm not using 245 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: that to demand ish, uh, the impact of this story 246 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: at all, And it did, in fact earn him UM 247 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:10,559 Speaker 1: the first of two Distinguished Service Orders that he received 248 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: during his his military career, and he ended up with 249 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: forty two prisoners that he captured using only a sword 250 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: and his pure, unadulterated bravado. It wasn't all glory, uh 251 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: trumpets and angel farts. However, in nineteen forty four he 252 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: was sent to assist Tito's forces in Yugoslavia yosip Bras Tito, 253 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: and he led a full frontal assault on a tower 254 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: that was very well defended. Churchill put together a motley crew. 255 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: He had partisans, people fighting their native land. Uh. He 256 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: had the group the forty three Commando, and then he 257 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: had one troop from forty Commando and he led the 258 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: commando forces while partisans stayed at the landing area. But 259 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: only Churchill and six other men made it to the objective. 260 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: And Churchill himself was actually playing a bagpipe song. It's 261 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: a song called will he had no comeback again? And 262 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: while he was playing this, a mortar shell killed the 263 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: other six men with him. He was the only person 264 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: who survived. He was knocked unconscious and he was captured. Ben, 265 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: were you taking some some pronunciation licenses with that? Son, Tyler, 266 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: Is it actually spelled in such a way that you 267 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: would say it like that? It is? Yeah, I didn't 268 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: got it. I love that. Um No, it's true. I 269 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: mean this guy was, in fact, like a real life superhero. 270 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you could call it happenstance, you 271 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: call it being in the right place at the right time, 272 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: having good luck or whatever. But I mean this guy 273 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: seemed to have been blessed in some way by the 274 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: gods of war. I mean, and really, you know, cheated 275 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: death multiple times again. I can't get away from the 276 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: whole marching, screaming in the battle, waving his sword, and 277 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: his reliance on this sword and bow and arrow. And 278 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: he never even me. I'm sure he had weapons, you know, firearms, 279 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: but you don't really hear much about him him leaning 280 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: too hard on those. Yeah, he reminds me. I've been 281 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: reading a lot of Conan the Barbarian. There's some great 282 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: comics and graphic novels there, and this guy is like 283 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: a World War two Conan the Barbarian. Conan worships, by 284 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: the way, a god called crom who sits on a 285 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: mountaintop and just judges people when they die. So maybe 286 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: maybe there was some sort of divine force of war 287 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: at work in the life of mad Jack Churchill, because 288 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: something unusual happens when he gets captured. The Nazi forces 289 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: have a standing order to kill this man immediately whenever 290 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: the opportunity presents, but the officers who capture him ignore 291 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: the order to kill him out of get this respect. 292 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: They also assumed he was related to Winston Churchill, and 293 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: so they said, okay, Churchill, let's send him to Berlin 294 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: and let's interrogate him. When we first started researching this, 295 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: I may or may not have made that same mistake myself. 296 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: It's super understandable, right, yeah, it is. But again, this 297 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: guy's reputation preceded him. He was legendary even amongst his enemies. 298 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: You know, I mean to have your enemies respect you 299 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: to that degree, that takes a lot of hutzpah, It's true. 300 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: So when they interrogated him, they found not only did 301 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 1: he have no valuable information to offer them, but he 302 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: was a huge problem prisoner. He started trash fires. He 303 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: was raised in Kine with the other prisoners and with 304 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: the guards. Eventually he was sent to the Sault Sinhausen 305 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: concentration camp, where of course, many many people would die, 306 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: but he did not. He escaped the camp pretty quickly 307 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: after being interned there, along with an officer from the 308 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: Royal Air Force. Yeah, they joined forces and shimmied under 309 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: a wire fence um and left through an abandoned storm drain, 310 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: and then they walked a hundred and twenty five miles 311 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: by some accounts, closer to ninety by others, right through 312 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: Nazi territory straight to the Baltic Sea. Um and then 313 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 1: they were captured a few miles from the shore, and 314 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: then they were transferred to another camp in Italy. But 315 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: once again Churchill escaped that one too, where he snuck 316 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: away during a blackout, uh and walked another hundred miles 317 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: using a rusty can to cook things that he pilfered, 318 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: you know, the vegetables and such that he stole from 319 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: these fields, literally stealing crops um that Nazis had kind 320 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: of common deered. Right. Yeah, he was of an a 321 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: hobo life for a second, and eventually he finds an 322 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: American regiment and Verona, and he's able to convince them 323 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: I'm a British officer. He's probably you know, he's probably 324 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: had a bit of a loss without his broadsword. But 325 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: he's saying something like, it's me broadsword guy, hand me 326 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: some bagpipes. I'll prove it to you. You know what 327 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: I mean? Don't you want to hear? Will ye know? 328 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: Come again? And uh he convinces them. So there's one 329 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: other note here that that's that's pretty important. Comes to 330 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: us from the Vintage News dot com. He actually wanted 331 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 1: to compliment one of the Germans that had held him 332 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: as a prisoner, guy named Captain Hans Thorner. Here's what 333 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: Churchill wrote about him. He wrote a letter to Captain 334 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: Thorner actually, and he said, you've treated us well. If 335 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: after the war you are ever in England and Scotland, 336 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: come and have dinner with my wife and myself. Pretty weird, right, 337 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of prisoners right that kind 338 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: of stuff to their prison guards and their wardens. Uh. 339 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, this note later saved Thorner's life. He was 340 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,239 Speaker 1: going to be executed in Yugoslavia for war crimes. And 341 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: then someone said, well, if mad Jack likes him, he 342 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: can't be all bad exactly. I mean, he really was 343 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: kind of a man of the people. And uh, like 344 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,239 Speaker 1: we said at the top, kind of the born. Uh. 345 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: You know, I used the term wreck on tour because 346 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: I just feel like that's someone who tells great stories 347 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: and can kind of engender people's old people's attention, you know. 348 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it takes a lot of that storytelling ability 349 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: to really rally people around you, because you kind of 350 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: have to control the narrative right and and and get 351 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: people to kind of get behind you and and trust 352 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: you in that way. I think that was a skill 353 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: that he definitely possessed. He also remains in the army. 354 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: A lot of people when they when they escaped like that, 355 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: the government would be completely fine with them retiring right 356 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: or being discharged, but not Churchill. As a matter of fact, 357 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: in just a few months after he had met that 358 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: up with the American forces, he was sent to Burma 359 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: and he was going to be in the Pacific theater 360 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: fighting battles on land against Japan. But by the time 361 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: he finally got there, the war was wrapping up. Nagasaki 362 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: and Hiroshima had been bombed, and Churchill was not happy. 363 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: He was He wasn't upset about the nuclear deployment. He 364 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: was upset because he thought the war was ending too soon, 365 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: and reportedly said, if it wasn't this is true. If 366 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't for those damn Yanks, we could have kept 367 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: the war going another ten years. Oh wow, that's a 368 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: hot take right there. That's uh, that's not what you 369 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: would call on No, it's definitely not on um. But 370 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: he this was this was the life that he was 371 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 1: obviously best suited for. I can't imagine what his acclamation 372 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: back into civilian life must have been like. You can't 373 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 1: just go brandishing your sword into the old corner bakery, 374 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, you can't try to timidate your uber 375 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: driver with bagpipes. No, I bet someone's tried. So he 376 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: wants to continue this lifestyle with which he is so 377 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 1: well acquainted. He qualifies as a parachutist. He's in his 378 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: forties at this point, and he joins the Highland Light 379 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: Infantry where he moves to Palestine, which is occupied by 380 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: British forces at this time, and he trains with the 381 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: British Army to fight Arab forces. And while he's there, 382 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 1: he's also coordinating rescue efforts and evacuation efforts for civilians 383 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: that are under attack. Yeah, he actually was a multiple hero. 384 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: He saved five hundred patients. Um and some of the 385 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: staff at the Adasa Hospital which was near Jerusalem. Um. 386 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: And then he eventually went back to England. He refurbished steamboats. 387 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: I mean, like this guy was just an absolute gem. 388 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: Uh continued his his his motorcycling career and I imagine 389 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: you know, kept shooting arrows, just not so much the Nazis. Yeah, yea. 390 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: His love of arrows follows him throughout his life. He 391 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 1: also eventually decides to move away from the UK and 392 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: he says, you know what, my battling days are done. 393 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: What's next? What's my third act in life? What is 394 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: the what is the epilogue from Matt Jack Churchill? And 395 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: he thinks about it and he says, you know what, 396 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to move to Australia. So moves to Australia. 397 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: He teaches Land air warfare, but spends most of his 398 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: free time becoming a surfer. So he goes to Australia. 399 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: He surfs for a while and he's a teacher. He 400 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: later goes back to England and he designs his own 401 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: surfboards and he becomes the first person to surf the 402 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: five foot title bore of the River Severn. While he's 403 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: working a dust stop, and then he started the famous 404 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: Ron John surf shop, um known the world over, mainly 405 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: in Panama City, right as well? Yeah, pretty much? Is it? 406 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: Is it an East Coast thing? I think it is? Well? 407 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: Is it? I don't know, I don't know. What do 408 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: you know about Ron John? I feel like it's yeah, 409 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: I've I've only encountered it on the East Coast, but 410 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: that's because I've mostly been on the East coasts, like 411 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: Myrtle Beach and stuff like totally Myrtle Beach. Thou Yeah, 412 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 1: all right, Well, we'll solve the mystery of Ron John 413 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: for another episode. By the time mad Jack retires from 414 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: the Army, it's ninety nine, he is fifty three years old, 415 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 1: and he spends the last she lives for a while. 416 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: He spends the last almost forty years, thirty seven years 417 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: of his life sailing ships along the Thames and piloting 418 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: radio controlled model warships, which is weird but seems seems 419 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: like a happy ending for such a violent life. It's 420 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: on brand that he was able to take a little 421 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: bit of that warlike instinct and blood lust and and 422 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: is turn it into a nice hobby, you know, piloting 423 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: remote control ships. That's that's nice, and his son said 424 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: it was super chill. Did you see that part? No? 425 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: I didn't. His son said, uh, since that you know. Actually, 426 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: my dad was very unassuming man, and he always told 427 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 1: me people are less likely to shoot you if you 428 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: smile at them. So the propaganda machine that we mentioned 429 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: earlier is still going by the way, uh mad Jack 430 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: Churchill becomes the protagonist of a comic strip. There are 431 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: books written about him, uh and he is called one of, 432 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: if not the most inspirational impressive people that the Norwegian 433 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: Royal Explorers Club has ever researched. There's a great quote 434 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: on Churchill from espen Lazarus, who was the co founder 435 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: of the Norwegian Royal Explorers Club, and he said of 436 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: Jack Churchill that he was quote one of, if not 437 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 1: the most inspirational and impressive people we ever searched in 438 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: relation to this book. And that book in question was 439 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: sort of a compilation volume of accounts of various historical 440 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: explorers and UM adventurers that that this this organization put 441 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: together UM and and you know, Churchill continued on um 442 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: in his kind of eccentric marching to the beat of 443 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: his own drummer. Kind of ways. Uh, he would. There's 444 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: an there's an article from all That's Interesting All that 445 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: is Interesting dot com about mad Jack. I'm talking about 446 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: how he would take the train um from the city 447 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: to where he lived out in the country, and he 448 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 1: would often toss his briefcase out the window. And then 449 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 1: he was asked why he would do that. He told 450 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: the conductor that he was simply throwing his briefcase into 451 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: his own backyard so he wouldn't have to carry it 452 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: home from the station, which I kind of get if 453 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 1: you've ever if you've ever ridden train system regularly, there's 454 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: this weird thing where you'll pass by your own house, 455 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: but you can't get off because you to go to 456 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: the station. So I I could see the efficiency there. 457 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: Weird thing about Jack Churchill and always reminds me of 458 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: how close we all are to history. The weird thing 459 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: about this guy is that he didn't pass away until 460 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: the same year the Olympics were in Atlanta. Just to 461 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 1: ground this in modern history. He was eighty nine years 462 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: old and his legacy remains pretty popular. But there's there's 463 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: one thing we have to mention. Let's let's drill into 464 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: this just just a little bit we talked about his 465 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: anachronistic weapon choice, and we also talked about whether he 466 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: deserves to be worshiped or lionized the way he is. Um. 467 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: And we have we have a little bit of the 468 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: we have we have a little bit of perspective from 469 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: an historian named Mike Loads about how useful this longbow 470 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: and this claymore this broad store may have been during war. Yeah. 471 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: So based on some images of Churchill that were kind 472 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: of analyzed, Um, this gentleman, a historian by the name 473 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: of Mike Loads, just decided that both were incredibly effective 474 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: potentially of maiming and killing people. Um. The bow that 475 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: he used was lightweight, Uh, was under forty pounds versus 476 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: those medieval bows. You might know that we're quite tall, um, 477 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: and that we're almost a hundred pounds each, and then 478 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: a hundred and eighty pound modern bows used used in war, 479 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: which would have you know, had more of a compound 480 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: kind of situation, right. Um. And again, like we mentioned before, 481 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: the bow was a silent killer. You know, you would 482 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: never you'd never hear it coming except for maybe a 483 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: little whoosh right right. And uh, Loads says that Churchill 484 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: wasn't really one for stealth outside of the quiet, deadly, 485 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: silent bow. After all, he was a guy known to 486 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: scream commando when he ran at people. Historians think this was, 487 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: like we had said, uh, sort of a psychological tactic. 488 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: He was meant to intimidate the enemy into fearing that charge. 489 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: But this probably wasn't the most efficient tactic because the 490 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: clatter and clutter of a sword wouldn't be helpful. This 491 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: led historians, again like Mike Loads, to say his tendency 492 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: to love the sword was probably an affectation of sorts. 493 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: His survival, in fact, may have had just as much 494 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: to do with his his image as an insane person 495 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: as it did with his skill. Like German forces who 496 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: saw him on the beach remember the day, and later 497 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: some of those German forces were taken prisoner, and prisoners 498 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: who remembered seeing Churchill playing the pipes on the beaches 499 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: of Normandy said that they didn't fire at him because 500 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: they thought he was crazy. They felt are for him. 501 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: So there was maybe there was intimidation on the axis side, 502 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: but there was also pity and confusion when it came 503 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: to mad Jack. And then again we have to come 504 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: back to it. There's that one quote that gives us 505 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: a troubling look into his mind where he says, we 506 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: could have kept the war going for another ten years. 507 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: Who wants war to keep going? Right? I don't know 508 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: someone who's skill set is particularly suited for a perpetual 509 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: state of war. Um, but it was nice to know 510 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: that he did kind of mellow out on his old 511 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: age and then play with, you know, model boats. It's true. 512 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: Happy endings are often all too rare in the stories 513 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: of war. And so with that we bid ad to 514 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: Lieutenant Colonel John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming Churchill, also known as 515 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: Mad Jack. What do you think, Nold? Do we play 516 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: this out with some bagpipes? Or do we just should 517 00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: we just let it go? I've heard a lot of 518 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: bad pipes today. I think we absolutely have to play 519 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: at with some bagpipes. Ben right, Huge thanks to Matt 520 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: Jack for being one of history's most fascinating badasses, um, 521 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: I don't mind saying, and equal thanks for being one 522 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: of history's most badass producers. Super producer Casey Pegram Alex Williams, 523 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: who did not compose this bagpipe, did he? But he 524 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: did compose our theme, which will probably be returning to 525 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: at a later date, we're going to play out on 526 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: this whole bagpipe situation. I think Christopher hasciots here in spirit. 527 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: Gabe Losuer for all of his research jobs. Big thanks 528 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: to Jonathan Strickling Dak the Quister, as well as Eve's 529 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: Jeff cot. This concludes our episode, but not our show. 530 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. Tell us some more 531 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: about little known heroes, villains or plain old eccentrics from 532 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: the days of your You can find us on Instagram. 533 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,239 Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook. You can find us 534 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: on Twitter. I especially like to recommend our Facebook group page, 535 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. All you have to do to sign up 536 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: is named me or my trustee co host or Casey 537 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: or honestly, you know, honestly, just drop a terrible joke 538 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: in there and if it's if it's chuckle worthy, I'll 539 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: let you in. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean we're pretty easily amused, 540 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: so it doesn't take much. But just let us know 541 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: that you're not a Russian boss, because they like to 542 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: say on our other show stuff they don't want you 543 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: to know what. You can also check out on the 544 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: Internet and on the Facebook. If you want to check 545 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: Ben and I out as individual human people. You can 546 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: do so at your leisure. I am on Instagram exclusively 547 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: at how Now Noel Brown, and I am on Instagram 548 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: Inniverse of Creativity at Ben Boland. I am also on 549 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: Twitter as at Ben Bolan h s W. Thank you, 550 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: you know, Casey, I just have to say you you're 551 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,719 Speaker 1: just killing it with the music today, man. And and 552 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: before we go out, I think maybe we need to 553 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: give you the last word because you have an update 554 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: on our surf shop question. Yeah. This we we could 555 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: not let this episode go by without clarifying this very 556 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: very important point. Where is the Ron John Surf Shop 557 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: franchise centered, Well, it is mostly in Florida, but there 558 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: are also a couple of shops in South Carolina, the 559 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: aforementioned Myrtle Beach, Alabama, Maryland, New Jersey. They also have 560 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: so many airports. They have some in Cosmo, in Mexico, 561 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: they have one on Grand Turk and the Turks and Caicos. 562 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: They have one in Las Vegas. They also have the 563 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: Ron John Surf School and the Ron John Kite School. 564 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: Who saw that one coming? Not I I'll tell you 565 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: who did, though, Casey on the case. We'll see you 566 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: next time. Folks. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 567 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 568 00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.