1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Senate Democrats have called for Justice 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas to recuse himself from the Trump immunity case. 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: I don't think he will do that, but sure, why not. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you Today. Congresswoman 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: Summerlee talks to us about how we achieve a more 8 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: democratic America. Then we'll talk to Democracy Dockets Mark Elias 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: about the latest court cases he is battling to protect democracy. 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: But first we have the host of Think Lake, an 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: economist podcast, University of Michigan Professor Justin Wolfers. Welcome back 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: to Fast Politics. Justin Wolfers, happy to talk. Oh my god, 13 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: to be an economist trying to explain this anonymy. 14 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 2: It's fun and it's easy. 15 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: All right, let's go explain it to me like I 16 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: don't understand what you're talking about, which full disclosure, I 17 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: only mildly understand what you're talking about. 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 2: Okay, here's the simple truth. It's good, thank you for 19 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: coming to my ted talk. Years of study went into that. 20 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: Oh nice, So tell me what's happening the landing has 21 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: been soft. 22 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: Yes, Molly, we just met. 23 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: It's not even true we know each other. 24 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 2: Well, I know, I'm just blessing you. Look, here's another 25 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 2: way of talking about the economy. We'll talk about a 26 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: soft landing. But what I want you to do, Molly, 27 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: is tell me what you care about, and I'll tell 28 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 2: you how we're doing. And tell me, as a person, 29 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:49,919 Speaker 2: what you care about. 30 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: Well, I know what voters care about, because I've been 31 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: told many, many times that all voters care about as inflations. 32 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: Okay, so that's not true. There's a long industry of 33 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: people who analyze election results from the United States and 34 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 2: around the world, and I'm in that industry, and they 35 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 2: relate it to economic conditions. And this is where you 36 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: get the old expression it's the economy stupid. That What 37 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: we've learned is economic conditions, broadly defined, have a big 38 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 2: impact on whether the incumbent party gets re elected. And 39 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: when we say economic conditions, usually it means two things. 40 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 2: One means the real economy, by which I mean real 41 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,119 Speaker 2: things that happen. Do people really have jobs? Is unemployment 42 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: really low? Are we producing lots of real thing? And 43 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,119 Speaker 2: the answer on that is unemployment's near a fifty year low. 44 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: We have employment rates up near their post. They're twenty 45 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 2: first century high and possibly not too far off an 46 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 2: all time high, certainly above pre pandemic lows and above 47 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:58,399 Speaker 2: pre pandemic trends. And I know it gets very exciting 48 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 2: when I say gross domestic product, but that's another real 49 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 2: indicator of what's really happening. How much we make, how 50 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: much we earn, how much we're spending, also strong and growing. 51 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 2: So that's one side of what's really happening. The other 52 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 2: side is, yes, inflation also matters, but it's not the 53 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: only thing that matters. Inflation was a year and a 54 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: half ago running at rates of nine percent, and there 55 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: was a bunch of people who said, don't worry, it's transitory, 56 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: including myself. People in Washington think transitory means it'll be 57 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: done by the end of the week. 58 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a rough one. 59 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: Right, so it didn't happen. Now in economics we move 60 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: a little slower, and so a year and a half later, 61 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: inflation's down too, as of this morning, three point one percent. 62 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 2: So it was transitory. Where by the word transitory we 63 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 2: mean not quite as quick as your hope, but not 64 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: quite as slow as you feared. So the two things 65 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: we care about how much stuff's getting made, people getting jobs, 66 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: stuff like that. All good inflation, what's the price tag 67 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 2: on stuff? Not all good? But the bad stuff's behind us. 68 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: And we're on the way down to two points something 69 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: percent inflation. Wow, and that's normal. That's the reason you 70 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 2: and I never talked about inflation prior to the year 71 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 2: twenty twenty. It's, first of all, we'd never met. And secondly, 72 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: because the preceding thirty years it had been two points 73 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 2: something percent and it was so boring, no one cared. 74 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: Guess what real Soon now maybe even today, it's so boring, 75 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 2: we're going to stop caring. 76 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: I was helping you could explain why you can't have 77 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: radical deflation and why it needs to go back. Deflation 78 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: has to happen slowly. 79 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 2: Right, we can have radical deflation. Here's how you do it. 80 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 2: You stop the economy. Just hit the brakes as hard 81 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 2: as you can. I've done that in the car before 82 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: everyone jerks forward. Someone's head goes through the screen, the windscreen, 83 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: and they're miserable. And that's how it works. In economics. 84 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 2: We could have a recession in ducer recession. Maybe by 85 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,799 Speaker 2: the government cutting back on spending on the FED, raising 86 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: rates to unbelievable levels, and they could induce a recession. 87 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 2: This is what Paul Volker did in the early nineteen eighties, 88 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 2: and it caused inflation to fall from fifteen percent down 89 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 2: to more normal rates of three four five. So that 90 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 2: kind of feels like it would get the job done. 91 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 2: But guess what we got inflation from nine down to 92 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 2: three without a recession. Even better. So what people were 93 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: talking about previously is let's have what they called a 94 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 2: soft landing. The hope a year ago was that we 95 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 2: would be able to slow the economy just a little bit, 96 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 2: just enough it wouldn't throw millions out of work, but 97 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 2: still enough that it would cause inflation to go down. 98 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: My friend Jason Furman ran a survey of economists back 99 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: then a year ago, and they gave it a one 100 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 2: and six chance that we would achieve a soft. 101 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: Landing, right one in sex. Wow. 102 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: Now, guess what. We didn't just get a soft landing, 103 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 2: We got better. Inflation has basically come all the way down. 104 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 2: It's over the last six months, core inflation's run at 105 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 2: two point nine percent, so two point something. That's where 106 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 2: we want to maybe wanted a little bit lower half 107 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: a point, and the unemployment rate is still within a 108 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 2: quarter point of it's fifty year low. So it's an 109 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 2: extra soft landing. It's not even really a landing. It's 110 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: some economists are calling it an immaculate disinflation. 111 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: So let's talk about an immaculate disinflation. I'm going to 112 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: guess that some of what happened was that the American 113 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: rescue plan helped this immaculate immaculism be immaculate, and that 114 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: the ways in which like for example, the aid to 115 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: Ukraine was funneled through building weapons in the United States, 116 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: those kind of things actually pumped up the economy. Yes, 117 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: no discuss. 118 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 2: Those things pumped up the economy, that's what we're calling 119 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 2: the real stuff before. But they likely also had an 120 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: effect on inflation, which would be to raise it. So, Molly, 121 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: I'm going to ask your permission, can we do economic 122 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 2: theory on this show? 123 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: Please? I know, okay, ys always. 124 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: But I want your listeners to really understand this. In economics, 125 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: of course, we talk a lot about demand and supply, 126 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: and so all those folks who were terribly worried about 127 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: inflation a year ago were worried the problem was demand. Basically, 128 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: their view a year ago was that we had unemployment 129 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: too low, we had incomes too high, we had too 130 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 2: much of a good thing, and so too many dollar 131 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 2: bills in our wallets chasing too few goods, causing inflation. 132 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: And if you thought that it was too much demand 133 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: and too much of a good thing causing inflation, what 134 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 2: you would want is to crush the extra demand and 135 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: bring us back to a normal amount of a good thing, 136 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: and that would crush inflation, which we didn't do. The 137 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 2: other story is it was supply. Supply is basically look, 138 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: business went crazy. It was a weird time to do business. 139 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: Global shipping routes were jammed. Energy prices went through the 140 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: roof because Putin invaded Ukraine, so did some food prices. 141 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: We saw bird flu raise egg prices, but more importantly, 142 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: we just saw the pandemic do what pandemics do, which 143 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: is cause infinite disruption in all of our workplaces. And 144 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: all of your listeners can recognize that whatever business you 145 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 2: work in, it was turned utterly upside down. Now, the 146 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: thing about a supply disruption is once that disruption passes, 147 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: once global shipping routes are back to normal. Once factories 148 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 2: can open without worrying about every sneeze, then business goes 149 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 2: back to normal. And I think that's basically what happened 150 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 2: that we had this weird period. Let's call it the pandemic. 151 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: I had to put too fine a point on it, yes. 152 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 2: Which made it really hard to do business, and that 153 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: led to all sorts of very unexpected price rises. And 154 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 2: that pandemic passed. Business went back to normal, and with 155 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 2: it so did inflation. So look, I know, Molly, you 156 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: have a tendency to want to put things in partisan terms, 157 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 2: so mean by this story. It's not really that Joe 158 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 2: Biden did one thing or another, although there is one 159 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 2: thing that actually believe it or not, I think it's 160 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: Donald Trump deserves a lot of credit for interesting He 161 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 2: appointed Jay Powell to head the FARED and the FED 162 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 2: has been very patient and very careful, and it resisted 163 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 2: all of the calls from conservatives to engineer or recession 164 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 2: to get rid of inflation. And that patience has paid off, 165 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: as we've seen, you didn't need a recession to get 166 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: rid of inflation. Now, I'll bring it back to your 167 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 2: partisan terms. Conservative economists with their hard money doctrines and 168 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 2: their calls for the next recession were exactly wrong. And 169 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 2: those of US counseling a little more patients because we 170 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 2: really care about keeping people in work and we're a 171 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 2: little more cautious and said, let's just wait and see, 172 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 2: this might just be supply. 173 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: We were right, So ultimate Lea really was supply. I 174 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: can't believe you just call me partisan, you monster. 175 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 2: I sorry, I'm. 176 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: Very mad at you, But let me ask you. When 177 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 1: we look back on this is now we're going to 178 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: get really boring. So everyone you can put us up 179 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: at two point oh speed. Actually I think this is 180 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 1: quite interesting. 181 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: But that's just me, Molly, I mean, thank you. There's 182 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 2: no greater introduction I could have hoped forul than like 183 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 2: I'm about to go to my guest. He's an economist. 184 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 2: Tune out to exit to exit. 185 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: Baby. 186 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 2: Is that just because I called you patisan? 187 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much. 188 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: We're I'm sorry you are in Manhattan, for Manhattan, you're 189 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 2: a swing voter. 190 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: Right, yes, exactly. So I want to ask you, like 191 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: what percentage of this inflation was caused by modern monetary theory? 192 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: Which is I'm sorry to do this, but. 193 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 2: This is such like don't go too, ks through this 194 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 2: is that way you learn your swear words listeners, Molly's 195 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 2: had some nonsense whispered in her ear. My professional bullshit is. 196 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: Okay. Modern monetary theory quickly is that you can just 197 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: print as much money as you want. It doesn't matter. 198 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 2: Go. Modern monetary theory is either original or it's right, 199 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 2: but it's not both. Look, I don't know, Like it's 200 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 2: a subtribe of economists who believe that they've understood the 201 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 2: economy and the rest of us don't. Look, their criticism 202 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 2: is none of us do. They're right, none of us do. 203 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 2: But if their claim is they and they alone do. 204 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 2: I'm generally against messianic figures who by themselves have discovered truth. 205 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 2: But I really have tried a good faith attempt to 206 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:50,479 Speaker 2: engage these folks, and either they're saying something totally absurd, 207 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: and then I argue and I'm like, hey, that sounds crazy, 208 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 2: and they're like, oh no, no, no, no, we're not saying that 209 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 2: at all. And then they say something totally obvious. So 210 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 2: either they're saying something that mainstream I must have understood 211 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 2: all along, which is the real constraints on being able 212 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 2: to just keep spending more money is eventually that will 213 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 2: cause inflation, or they're saying something really absurd, which is 214 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 2: there's no constraint and the government should just keep buying 215 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 2: stuff forever. I don't know which it is, my friends 216 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 2: in modern monetary theory. I apologize for not understanding you. 217 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 2: There is a point in my career I figured I 218 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 2: got old enough that if I don't understand what you're saying, 219 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 2: it's your fault, not mine. When I was young, I 220 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 2: used to think it was me. 221 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: This is realm. We've hit real niche humor. Here, niche 222 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: niche humor. 223 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 2: It's just you and me, mate, just you. 224 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: And me finding this hilarious. So let's talk about what 225 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: it looks like now. We still have a very tight 226 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: labor market. Will you talk about that for a minute. 227 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it's good to know we'll never fix the 228 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: citizenship problem. So these jobs will luckily, we'll find children 229 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: who have come over the board to work in these jobs. Right. 230 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: I mean, that's what the Republicans want, not to seem 231 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: partisan writing. 232 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 2: Democrats want robots to do them right. And look, Molly, 233 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 2: go back. You spoke economics. I want you to speak 234 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 2: like a person. You said, we have a very tight 235 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 2: labor market. Yes, but don't you mean good? 236 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: I mean good, except that you need people to work 237 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: these jobs. 238 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: Oh so you're saying poor employers are sometimes finding it 239 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 2: hard to find workers when they're offering measly wages. So 240 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,719 Speaker 2: workers who are looking for work and find it. I 241 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 2: don't know about you, Molly. It makes me really happy. 242 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 2: And then I know in New York you've got like 243 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: lots of fancy people you hang with and they're like, 244 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 2: it must be hard to find people these days. And 245 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 2: the answer is when you pay very little, it is. 246 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 2: And the thing is, those of who are truly liberal, Molly, 247 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 2: think that's wonderful. And I know it's harder to get 248 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 2: your house clean for not much money. But here's the thing. 249 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 2: If you want it cleans, just pay a little more. 250 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's Wolfer's out of control. He's out 251 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: of control. No, But I mean, ultimately, you need people 252 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: to pay into Social Security for the economy to keep going, 253 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: you need to add workers, right or Am I confused here? 254 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 2: Look? Am I pro immigration? Yes? I believe it's wonderful 255 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 2: for the United States, and I believe it's wonderful for 256 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 2: the immigrant which is an important fact that shouldn't be lost. 257 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: Where is that accent from just Carriot? 258 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 2: Sorry, go on, Yes, this is Michigan. I know you 259 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 2: people call me fly over country, but this is how 260 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: we speak out here. 261 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: I feel like that is not how you speak in Michigan. 262 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 2: But some people say, actually, the United States get some 263 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 2: of the best and the brightest as a result of 264 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 2: its immigration policies. But I still just want to go back. 265 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 2: What do you care about in the labor market. Look, 266 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 2: here's the other thing. One of the big talking points 267 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 2: out there is real wages aren't growing, prices were growing, 268 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 2: wages weren't keeping up. Not true. What's actually happening is 269 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: wages are out growing prices. I want to go a 270 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 2: step further. Wages are growing the fastest for those who 271 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 2: need it most. Those are the to end of the 272 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: instruction really important. There's this sort of vibe session debate, 273 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 2: which is interminable discussion, which is the economic statistics say 274 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: that things are going well, and infinite column inches have 275 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 2: been devoted to the fact that public opinion polls suggest 276 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 2: people aren't so happy about it. Now, it turns out 277 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 2: all of those column inches are being written by people 278 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 2: in the upper middle class the upper middle class are 279 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 2: not getting pay rises right now, the working class are, 280 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 2: and the middle class are, and so the reality is 281 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 2: life is getting quite a lot better for the folks 282 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 2: that those of us a somewhat liberal persuasion actually care about. 283 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 2: But the whining is coming from folks who are profoundly 284 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: out of touch with reality. And the reality is that 285 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 2: working class jobs wages are rising a lot. So, yes, 286 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: it's hard to get someone to clean your house cheaply, 287 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: but some of us think that's fabulous. 288 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: I personally have had very good success in my life 289 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: with the people that I have work in relationship with. 290 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: But I'm more just talking about this sort of larger 291 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: sense in which you know, how we keep it moving. 292 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, so you're like, how do we maintain an 293 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: economy with really low unemployment? Right, bloody great question, I 294 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 2: reckon it's worth finding out. But it's happened before. It's 295 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: happened before in the United States fifty years ago, and 296 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 2: it's happened in a handful of other countries. Japan for 297 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 2: many years had two percent unemployment. New Zealand, which is 298 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 2: a small, uninteresting country near a large and vibrant, terrific country. 299 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: I feel like you have some bias here. 300 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 2: No, I'm an economist. New Zealand its official unemployment count 301 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 2: at one point was like two hundred and seventeen people. Wow. 302 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 2: The labor ad minister at the time joked that he 303 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 2: knew all the unemployed people. Look, maybe it's impossible to 304 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: run a labor market that tide, but maybe it's possible. 305 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: We haven't run that experiment in the United States in 306 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 2: several generations. So yes, immigration may well help if low 307 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 2: unemployment causes higher inflation, but right now it's not right. 308 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: It's a good point, And I think it's interesting as 309 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: we're talking about this because you really do see how 310 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: and this is so counterintuitive. But ultimately what you're saying 311 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: is that the president doesn't have that much control over 312 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: the economy. 313 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 2: It's an interminable debate. You and I can go back 314 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 2: and forward. The general view when you ask Washington pundits 315 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: is the president can do whatever he wants to win 316 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 2: the economic indicator with the click of a finger, click 317 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 2: of his fingers. And the general view when you ask 318 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 2: economists is how and there's a great suspicion that presidents 319 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 2: have a great effect on things. Probably a truth somewhere 320 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 2: between those two views. I do think it worth that 321 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 2: it's interesting that one of the most unremarked but remarkable 322 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 2: thing that's happened is inequality has declined through the Biden presidency, 323 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 2: and it just so happens to be a Democrat in 324 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 2: the White House, and one wonders whether somehow the emphasis 325 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 2: of the president on lifting up working class Americans is 326 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 2: actually finding its way through to the lives of working 327 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 2: in middle class Americans. 328 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: That's a little bit of partisanship. I'll take it. Thank 329 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: you so much, justin I hope you'll come back. 330 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 2: Oh, it's a great joy, Molly. 331 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: Congresswoman Summerly represents Pennsylvania's twelfth district. Welcome back to Fast Politics. 332 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: Congresswoman Summerly, thanks so much for having me. 333 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 3: I'm always excited to be here. 334 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: Well, it's very mutual. So let us talk about the 335 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: Freedom to Vote Act and what is happening in Congress. 336 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: It's weird to talk about something in Congress that is 337 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: like an actual normal congressional thing after the last couple 338 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: of weeks before we talk about what you're doing, which 339 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: is so important and so crucial. Is it weird to 340 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: be in Congress right now? 341 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 3: Goodness. 342 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 4: Yes, actually, let's just start there. Yeah, it's a strange place. 343 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 4: It's probably one of the least productive congressional sessions ever. 344 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 4: And you know, I think the weirdest part about it 345 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 4: is that Republicans are saying this, like hardcore right winging 346 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 4: Republicans are the leading voice is saying that everything that's 347 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 4: happening right now is ridiculous. So you know, if they're 348 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 4: saying it, then it's absolutely true. It's absolutely that absurd. 349 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 4: We've done very little this Congress except for cinsure the 350 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 4: leading progressive black and brown voices. We found time for that, 351 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 4: but we hadn't seemingly found time to pass any bills 352 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 4: or to pass a budget, which is obviously our basic responsibility. 353 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 3: You know, I don't bound time for anything else. 354 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 4: But we are silencing and punishing black and brown members. 355 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: Let's talk about They kicked out Kevin McCarthy. Now he's 356 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: leaving for good. They got had three weeks no speaker, 357 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: panicked and picked a speaker that nobody knew. That's what 358 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: it looks like from the outside you are inside Congress. 359 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: Is that what it looks like from the inside. 360 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 4: I hate to say it, but that's what it looks 361 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 4: like to me, I did not know that man. Sorry 362 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 4: to that man, but I had never heard him either. 363 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 4: So it was as much as a shock to me, 364 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 4: but it was also very telling that you know, when 365 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 4: we talk about it, you know, you say, we didn't 366 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 4: have a speaker for three weeks. Essentially, it took the 367 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 4: Republican Party one year to pick a speaker because the 368 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 4: election was in last November, so they had his last 369 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 4: November to decide who they wanted to lead our Congress. 370 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 4: We knew on January third that Kevin McCarthy was a placeholder. 371 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 3: That was very clear. 372 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 4: By the end of the twelve line right, we then go, 373 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 4: he fills his placewoader seat. They start over again in 374 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 4: the end of the you know, in the fall, and 375 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 4: then it takes more weeks after that, so it took 376 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 4: a year for them to pick even a speaker. So yeah, 377 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 4: it looks as observed from the inset as I imagine 378 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 4: it looks from the outset. 379 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: One of the things that Republicans have done is they've 380 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: been sort of putting these bills up in order to 381 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: try to get liberals to have to vote against them, 382 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: to try to prove that liberals are anti Semitic. So 383 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: you voted yes on reaffirming Israel the States right to exist. 384 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: You voted yes on calling on Hamas to immediately release 385 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: hostages taken during October twenty twenty three. So these are 386 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: like the two larger bills. Now they have more bills 387 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: that say all sorts of vague stuff, explain to us 388 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: what's happening here. 389 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 4: I don't know that I can explain necessarily what's happening 390 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 4: aside from what it feels like to me. I imagine 391 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 4: what it feels like to many Americans is that the 392 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 4: Republican Party is distracting from their inability to advance an agenda, 393 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 4: from their inability to pass a budget, and they are 394 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 4: using the very real pain, the very raal fears of 395 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 4: our Jewish communities as a wedge as a weapon. And 396 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 4: I think it is every bit as racist as they 397 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 4: always are. 398 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 3: Is every bit as racist as they always are. 399 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,719 Speaker 4: Here we're talking about the a party that contains people 400 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 4: who unapologetically have said Jews will not replace us, with 401 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 4: unapologetically pushed you know theories such as the Great Replacement theory, 402 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 4: who unapologetically marginalized and oppressed black and brown people who 403 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 4: are horrible to immigrants of all, well, I won't say all, 404 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 4: but unapologically horrible to immigrants who don't look like them, 405 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 4: who don't share their religion. They have not stopped or 406 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 4: seed any of this in the midst of these bills. 407 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 4: They still continue on their path. They still continue on 408 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 4: their crusade to harm all Americans who aren't them, don't 409 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 4: look like them, who are not wealthy, white man of 410 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 4: a certain age range of demographic The fact that they're 411 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 4: leaning so hard into this is for me, the saying 412 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 4: that the activation is a confession here. 413 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: That's right, it feels to me anyway. We're in the 414 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: cusp of a multi racial democracy for the first time ever, 415 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 1: and that is what's making Republicans so scared slash angry. 416 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 3: Let me just say that, I mean, yeah, I mean 417 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 3: I think we are at a crossroads. 418 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 4: I think we're at a critical crossroads in our democracy. 419 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 4: We can see it as we are at the cusp 420 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 4: of this multi racial democracy, this wild car a reflective 421 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 4: representative democracy, or or we are at the cusp of 422 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 4: an eroding democracy, one that doesn't survive into the future 423 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 4: and two decades into the future because we've not. 424 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 3: Papped the holes that are becoming more and more uncontainable. 425 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 4: If you can see the holes and the cracks and democracy, 426 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 4: we're already in a world of trouble. So that brings 427 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 4: us to you know, this piece of legislation, which is 428 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 4: a direct response to further attacks on Section two of 429 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 4: the Voting Rights Act. 430 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: Tell us about Section two for those who are playing 431 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: along at home. 432 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's the last bit of reports that voters, private 433 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 4: voters have against discriminatory attacks on their access to voting 434 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 4: right whether or not, you know, particularly black and brown 435 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 4: voters can bring suit when they're being or when there 436 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 4: are laws that have a disproportionate burden on their access 437 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 4: to voting. So what we saw and what we have seen, right, 438 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 4: for instance, we've seen you know, states, and we know 439 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 4: that voting looks different from not just state the state, 440 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 4: but it looks different from municipality the municipality, county to councy. 441 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 4: But where we saw we see some states, right, they'll 442 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 4: have some counties that will have expanded access to voting 443 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 4: to poles and others that have more limited access. That 444 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 4: was the situation that we've seen in one case where 445 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 4: all of the voters that had a higher burden to 446 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 4: figure out how to vote, to have access to early 447 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 4: voting or you know, drop boxes or things of that nature, 448 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 4: whereas their white chunter parts and counties next to them 449 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 4: didn't share those same impediments. Right, and Section two has 450 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 4: for decades protected these voters to be able to not 451 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 4: just bring suit, but proof that there was a disproportion 452 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 4: in a disperate impact on them. The courts are now 453 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 4: attempting and have said that that burden has to be 454 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 4: substantially higher, which essentially makes us so that black and 455 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 4: brown voters who are being discriminated against, they don't have 456 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 4: any your ecourse to fairness or to corrective measures when 457 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 4: they're discriminated against at the polls. 458 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: Right, that sounds very much like the Supreme Court. 459 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 4: We know, the Supreme Court that has been intentioned built, 460 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 4: And as we talk about the erosion of voting rights, 461 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 4: you know, we can go back to the Supreme Court 462 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 4: seat that they stole. 463 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 3: Everything that we've been seeing has been an escalation. 464 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 4: So you know, way back in twenty thirteen when they 465 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 4: eroded Section five, and in twenty twenty one when they 466 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 4: are starting to erode Section two, when we saw them 467 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 4: still a Supreme Court case that helped them build one 468 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 4: of the most conservative and reactionary courts that we are 469 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 4: dealing with right now. Then we can directly tie those 470 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 4: actions to our loss of abortion care, we can tie 471 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 4: those actions to our loss of affirmative action. We can 472 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 4: tie that to so much more, and then we can 473 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 4: tie directly to the insurrection, right, because that's the next 474 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 4: frontier is making sure that certain people never get to 475 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 4: vote again. 476 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's sort of the goal there. I mean, it's 477 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: not even sort of, it is the goal. 478 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 3: It is absolutely goal. 479 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: They were able to somehow get the cr passed. I mean, 480 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: is there a way to get these people to get 481 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: at all interested. 482 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 4: In this seeing anything in this commers pass. I think 483 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 4: that the last twelve months have shown us to maybe 484 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 4: not hold our breath right, but it's also reminded us 485 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 4: that we have to fight that much harder to reclaim 486 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 4: the gabbles, to alert the American population to the threats 487 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 4: that it's facing from a radicalized, extremist right wing Republican Party. 488 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 3: It was not a one off thing. Donald Chalk was 489 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 3: not a one off. 490 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 4: That man said he wants to be a dictator on 491 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 4: day one so that he can get through everything that 492 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 4: he would have to otherwise go through the democratic processes 493 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 4: if he was a dictator for one day, he just 494 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 4: do all these terrible things. Right that a presidential candidate 495 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 4: and former president could even joke about being a dictator 496 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 4: in our society, well. 497 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: Especially one who really does want to be a dictator. 498 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 4: That man is telling you precisely what he is in 499 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 4: the Democratic Party. If we are the Party of democracy, 500 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 4: of democratic values, then we have a responsibility of not 501 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 4: equivocating with Republicans who are fascists, not pretending that there 502 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 4: are another side of the coin, and not pretending that 503 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 4: our democracy isn't under attack. We're not going to fortify 504 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 4: our democracy by pretending that the threats and the risks 505 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 4: to it are understated somehow. So that's what we need 506 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 4: to do. When we still present legislation. We have a 507 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 4: responsibility to still present the solutions to legislative policy issues 508 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 4: that our constituents and our country have. And we have 509 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 4: a responsibility to still protect democracy whether or not we 510 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 4: have the gabble. So we like to hope that and 511 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 4: we would wish that democracy and protecting democracy is a 512 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 4: bipartisan issue. If it's not, then we need to take 513 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 4: this to the polls, and we need to remind Americans 514 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 4: that one party doesn't just want democracy to end, they're 515 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 4: actively working towards it. 516 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: No agreed, And I think that's right. You're being targeted 517 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: right now by apec Ape Well. I was going to say, 518 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: a nefarious billionaire who also funds the right wing attack 519 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: on the Supreme Court. They're putting pictures of you next 520 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: to Trump and MTG explain this to. 521 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 4: Us, So yeah, they you know what they did that 522 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 4: to me in my first election. I think that's really important, 523 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 4: right because even as people are talking about whether or not, 524 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 4: you know, corporate packs such as the ones that an 525 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 4: organization like a PAC ones, whether or not they are 526 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 4: or should be allowed to operate in our political system 527 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 4: like this because they're a single issue organization and a 528 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 4: single issue that is important to many American voters. But 529 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 4: the reality is is that a one hundred million dollars 530 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 4: to spend against five people is objectively absurd. That is 531 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 4: objectively an existential threat to our democracy. And particularly when 532 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 4: we look at where they spend the money and how 533 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 4: they spend the money, we can really kind of hone 534 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 4: in on the ways in which not only is it 535 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 4: a threat to democracy. But the people who are going 536 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 4: to be harmed those strets with democracies are black and 537 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 4: brown communities like the ones that I represent, the ones 538 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 4: that Jamal Bowman represents, or Chlory Bush, which is where 539 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 4: they are exclusively focusing. These are communities that aren't rich, right, 540 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 4: These are working class communities that don't have one hundred 541 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 4: million dollars to counter at that. But if you don't 542 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 4: have one hundred million dollars, does that mean that you 543 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 4: don't get to have a representative of democracy. Doesn't mean 544 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 4: that you don't get to pick your own politicians. When 545 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 4: they ran against me last year, they never mentioned Israel once, 546 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 4: not one time, not one time in any race across 547 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 4: the country. 548 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 3: They called me a trunk supporter. They imply that I 549 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 3: was a Republican. 550 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: I also think that it's important you actually were the 551 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: co sponsor of this bill condemning Hamas. 552 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, because actually, what we're trying to do is we're 553 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 4: trying to kill any distinct So even when we not 554 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 4: just co sponsor, but we champion, we advocate vocally against 555 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 4: the wars of Hamas and war when we say on 556 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 4: equivocally that we believe that Israelis and Palestinians deserve and 557 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 4: that it is worth fighting for their right to live 558 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 4: peacefully and safely. We are labeled enemies, we are labeled 559 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 4: terrorist sympathizers, and it brings harm to us. They know 560 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 4: that when they tweet at me, they know that they 561 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 4: are unleashing upon me, people who are going to be 562 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 4: racist against me, people who are going to threaten our lives. 563 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 4: They know that we get death threats and so much 564 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 4: hate from their targeting, and their targeting is never in 565 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 4: good faith. They are attempting to blatantly squash conversation. But 566 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 4: right now, desperately, we need to actually be embracing a 567 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 4: nuanced conversation around what is happening in Israel and Palace 568 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 4: that not run away from it. But we can't do that, 569 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 4: and anyone who thinks about doing it or threatened with 570 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 4: millions and millions of dollars against them. They said that 571 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 4: they will spend one hundred million dollars this cycle just 572 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 4: to silence and ensure that progressive black and brown voters 573 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 4: in this country do not have the representation that they 574 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 4: called for, that they fought for. But it also means 575 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 4: that I have to raise money. It means now that 576 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 4: we have to find a way to fight back. Because 577 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 4: my constituents, all of mike is are Jewish constituents, and 578 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 4: our black constituents, they voted for representation that focuses not 579 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 4: just on our differences, but on our similarities. On climate justice, 580 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 4: on healthcare for everyone, on infrastructure, on equitable schools, and 581 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 4: making sure that all of our workers have a living 582 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 4: wage in the union. Those were concepts and ideas and 583 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 4: values that unified all of my districts and so many 584 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 4: other districts. And when this type of money comes in 585 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 4: to osi scate, to distract and to expread this information, 586 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 4: it keeps us from having those unifying conversations. It keeps 587 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 4: us from having conversations about the representation that people in 588 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 4: PA twelve one to have, that the people in other 589 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 4: districts like Minnesota or Saint Louis or New York one 590 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 4: to have. And that's why we are fighting back. I'm 591 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 4: not a famous representatives. I'm not you know, God blessed 592 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 4: the members of this blog, okay before me right. They 593 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 4: have access to a lot of money because of their notoriety. 594 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 4: I don't have it, and that's why I'm APEX number 595 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 4: one target because they think I'm the most vulnerable. So 596 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 4: we need folks who believe in this type of courageous 597 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 4: representation and advocacy. 598 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 3: If you do, we need the support. 599 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 4: If we lose these seats, it will send a message 600 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 4: that you can't be pro our Jewish siblings and pro Palestinians, 601 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 4: pro life, pro peace. You can't be pro peace in 602 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 4: this Congress if they defeat me, and if they defeat 603 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 4: all of the black members of the squad, just the 604 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 4: black members of the squad. 605 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 3: So please give what you can. 606 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 4: Go Yeah, more about me, learn more about our movement 607 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 4: at SUMMERFPA dot com. But we want to expand, not 608 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 4: shrink our movement summerly. 609 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. Mark Elias is the founder of 610 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: Democracy Doted. Welcome Mark to Fast Politics. 611 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 5: Thanks for having me. 612 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: I am really delighted to have you. You're one of 613 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: the people that makes me feel better knowing that you're 614 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: out there. That's so terrible. I'm sorry, but it's true. 615 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 5: If I'm your source of optimism, you need a source 616 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 5: of optimism. 617 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,439 Speaker 1: Let's be honest, I do need a source. Look, all 618 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: I have is me and my giant mug. But so 619 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: let's talk about what the election landscape looks like, I mean, 620 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: Republicans just want to make it harder to vote because 621 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 1: they know they are losing, right, I mean, that's the 622 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: net net of this whole fiasco, right. 623 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,439 Speaker 5: Yeah, So, look, the Republican plan is pretty out there, 624 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 5: like they're not hiding it, right. They want to make 625 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 5: it harder to vote and easier to cheat. So the 626 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 5: harder to vote part is the voter suppression. The easier 627 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,399 Speaker 5: to cheat is all of the things that they want 628 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 5: to do to make it easier to overturn free and 629 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 5: fair elections the next time and have a more successful 630 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 5: you know, January sixth, Right. 631 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: So let's talk about harder to vote, because that's sort 632 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,439 Speaker 1: of where you come in. I mean, you probably also 633 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: come in in the latter. But the former has been 634 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: telling the Republicans have been working for a long time, Right, 635 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: It's just that as they continually lose the demographic battle, 636 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,959 Speaker 1: it takes on more urgency. 637 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 5: Yeah. So I think that to understand where the Republican 638 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 5: psychology is, you have to actually go back in time 639 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,959 Speaker 5: to the election of Barack Obama in two thousand and eight. 640 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 5: At that time, you know, it was not clear where 641 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 5: the demographics of America would shake out electorally. As you 642 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 5: may remember, George Bush made a real push, for example, 643 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 5: for Hispanic voters to join the Republican Party. But after 644 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 5: Obama put together what became known as the Obama Coalition, 645 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 5: Republicans realized they had a problem. After the twenty twelve election, 646 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 5: you'll remember, they did this very very famous autopsy report, 647 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 5: and what came out of that autopsy report were a 648 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 5: series of recommendations from the Republican Party, from the RNC 649 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 5: that said, we need to moderate on immigration, we need 650 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 5: to moderate on abortion, we need to find other ways 651 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 5: to reach out to young voters and minority voters. And 652 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 5: that was, in a nutshell molly supposed to be the 653 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 5: candidacy of Jeb Bush. People don't remember Jeb Bush was 654 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 5: supposed to be the front runner in the twenty sixteen campaign, 655 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 5: but he got steamrolled by the opposite of that, which 656 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 5: was Donald Trump. And so since the Donald Trump era, 657 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 5: Republicans no longer aspire to having a majority of the vote. 658 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 5: They don't try to win majorities. They try to rig 659 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 5: the rules to be able to effectuate the ruling of 660 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 5: the public without a majority coalition. So that's why in 661 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 5: two thousand when George Bush loses the popular vote but 662 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,280 Speaker 5: wins the electoral college. It was such a traumatic event 663 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 5: even for him and Republicans, Whereas by the time you 664 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 5: get to twenty twenty, Republicans are trying to scheme to 665 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 5: figure out how to lose the popular vote and still 666 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 5: win the presidency. And in twenty twenty for it'll be 667 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 5: even more. 668 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: I think that's a really salient point. The thing that 669 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: makes me sleep at night, and I don't sleep that well. 670 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,800 Speaker 1: So it sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. 671 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 5: But maybe you need to move out of New York 672 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 5: City and into the suburbs. It could be like street. 673 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,760 Speaker 1: Noise, you know, that'll do it. But is the idea 674 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: that there's a certain amount of voter protection that comes 675 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 1: from the governors right in states like Wisconmsin and Michigan. 676 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: And Wisconsin lasts probably because the governor has much less power, 677 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: but Michigan, Pennsylvania where governors have made it a little 678 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 1: bit easier to vote, or have they been able to 679 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,240 Speaker 1: protect voting as it is? Is that true? Am I wrong? 680 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: And talk me through that? 681 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 5: Look, it's largely true. But we have two phenomena that 682 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,760 Speaker 5: we have to account for. The First is that most 683 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 5: of our elections in this country are administered at the 684 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 5: local level, at the county and subcounty life. So as 685 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 5: much as governors can do and secretaries of state can 686 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 5: do on a statewide level, we still see these bad 687 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 5: actors at the local level, these election deniers taking over 688 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 5: local election offices, and that's really hard. That's really hard 689 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 5: for our system, which counts on those election officials to 690 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,800 Speaker 5: be doing the honest thing. The second thing is, of course, 691 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 5: that you have the increase in Republican election vigilanteism. So 692 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 5: we used to think about the threat of to our 693 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 5: elections coming mostly from state actors, legislatures passing bad laws, 694 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 5: governor Republican governors implementing bad laws, Republican secretary of states 695 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 5: or ags. What we have seen in the last couple 696 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,320 Speaker 5: of years, though, is the growth of a vigilante culture 697 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 5: among Republicans and Conservatives, where small groups of non state 698 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 5: actors these sort of think about Molly the imageges of 699 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 5: Conservatives in Maricopa Counties staking out dropboxes in body armor, right, 700 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 5: And that is very hard even for governors to do 701 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 5: much about at a systemic level, And that's part of 702 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 5: the reason why my team and I remain so busy 703 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 5: in court because when you deal at the local level 704 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 5: with election deniers, you deal with these election vigilantes, oftentimes 705 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 5: the courts are your best options. 706 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: And that's what Trump wants, right, I mean, that's when 707 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 1: Trump says, you've got to watch them vote every vote, right, 708 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 1: That's what Trump wants. 709 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's a really important point, Molly that you 710 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 5: just made. When he says we've got to guard the 711 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 5: vote or watch them vote. He's not talking about getting 712 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:50,319 Speaker 5: you know, uniformed police or election officials to watch. He 713 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 5: is encouraging the same kind of activity that we saw 714 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 5: on January sixth. He's trying to get his supporters to 715 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 5: engage in vigilante and that is what is so dangerous 716 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 5: and I've been sounding the alarm about for twenty twenty four. 717 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 5: Is that that is the dog whistle or maybe not 718 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 5: even dog whistle, maybe it's a bullhorn that he is saying, 719 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 5: is for groups of his supporters. 720 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 2: To do this. 721 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's going to be bad. I mean that seems 722 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: pretty fucking bad. Excuse my friend. So let's talk about 723 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 1: where you're seeing this sort of most egregious voter defranchising. 724 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, So I think it comes in a couple of 725 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 5: varieties and a lot of different geographies. So we know 726 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 5: that Kleta Mitchell, who is a well known conservative lawyer, 727 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 5: she was on the tape that Brad Rosenberger made with 728 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,799 Speaker 5: Donald Trump. She was one of the people on the 729 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 5: Trump side of that conversation, and she was not that 730 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 5: long ago caught on a released tape encouraging Republicans to 731 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 5: target young voters, particularly college voters, in trying to disenfranchise them. 732 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 5: So I think one stream of this will be wherever 733 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 5: there are college campuses and you have concentration of young voters, 734 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 5: we should expect to see targeted voter suppression, election visulanteism. 735 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 1: So what does that look like. 736 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 5: It is a few things. One of the big tactics 737 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 5: that they are touting is voter challenges. Now, you know, 738 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 5: again you and I have talked about voter challenges in 739 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 5: past opportunities. But just to put a little perspective in 740 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 5: the runoff in twenty twenty one in Georgia, when there 741 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,919 Speaker 5: were the two Senate seats in January of twenty twenty 742 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 5: one that led to the Democrats taking control of the Senate. 743 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 5: The Republican Party and their allies challenged the eligibility of 744 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,120 Speaker 5: three hundred and sixty four thousand Georgians. They tried to 745 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,880 Speaker 5: disenfranchise that many Georgians. Now my team went to court, 746 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 5: we prevented it, and then Republicans changed the law in 747 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,800 Speaker 5: Georgia to make it harder to block challenges and easier 748 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 5: to make mass challenges. So we so on another one 749 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 5: hundred thousand challenges. When Rafael Warnock had his election in 750 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 5: twenty twenty two, CBS News just did a profile of 751 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 5: these voter challenge efforts that are moving from state to state. 752 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 5: I think they identified eleven states now where conserners have 753 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 5: plans to challenge the voting rights or the ability to 754 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 5: vote on a mass basis. They're building AI tools to 755 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 5: do this, and so those tools will be targeted at 756 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,120 Speaker 5: young voters, they'll be targeted at more transient voters, they'll 757 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,799 Speaker 5: be targeted, I believe, at minority voters. And so we 758 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,799 Speaker 5: need to wake up and realize this is going on, 759 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 5: and we need to tackle this as a political matter, 760 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,439 Speaker 5: an organizing matter, and a legal matter. 761 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: That is really fucking scary. But I also want to 762 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:50,719 Speaker 1: ask you about this sort of jerrymanderd voting. You know 763 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 1: the congressional this the congressional seat voting. There have been 764 00:42:56,280 --> 00:43:01,280 Speaker 1: efforts on the part of even this incredible conservative Supreme 765 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 1: Court to sort of throw out some of the jerrymandering 766 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about Alabama. Can you talk to me about 767 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 1: where that is and what you see and what is 768 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: making you hopeful or worried or whatever it looks like there? 769 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 5: Yeah, Molly again, I think you go back to our 770 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,399 Speaker 5: basic frame here, which is that Republicans want to make 771 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 5: it harder to vote and easier to cheat because they 772 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 5: don't command majorities. So one of the ways they make 773 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 5: it easier to cheat is by rigging the districts. Right, 774 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,240 Speaker 5: Rigging districts is just another way of saying you're rigging 775 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,799 Speaker 5: the rules of voting. And so in Alabama, and in 776 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 5: Georgia and in Louisiana, my law firm is suing the 777 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:44,359 Speaker 5: Republican states because they failed to abide by the Voting 778 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 5: Rights Act. The Voting Rights Act has a very very 779 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,880 Speaker 5: specific requirement that says that under some circlement that you 780 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 5: cannot dilute minority voting strengths. So we suit Alabama, and 781 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,719 Speaker 5: Alabama lost. They went to the US Court, and as 782 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 5: you point out, to many people surprise, including Alabamas, the 783 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 5: Supreme Court rejected their challenge. 784 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: Were you shocked by that, by the way, you know, 785 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:09,719 Speaker 1: I was not. 786 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,200 Speaker 5: We had two cases in twenty twenty three that went 787 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,319 Speaker 5: to the US Supreme Court that were voting cases, the 788 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 5: Alabama case and then the so called independent state Legislature 789 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 5: theory case. 790 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: Both of which the Supreme Court took your side on. 791 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, we won both of them. And that's not to 792 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,239 Speaker 5: say the Supreme Court is not trouble. It is in 793 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,839 Speaker 5: a lot of respects. But I do think that the 794 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:36,839 Speaker 5: Supreme Court when it comes to these existential democracy questions, 795 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,160 Speaker 5: not the incremental democracy questions, but the existential democracy. 796 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: Incremental they love, but existential they don't like so much. 797 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, which is the reason why Molly, I'll say here, 798 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,480 Speaker 5: I think Jack Smith is going to win the immunity 799 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,279 Speaker 5: case against Donald Trump because that falls in the existential Now, 800 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 5: will the court down the road, you know, narrowly construe 801 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 5: the statutes that he's charged under and you know, maybe 802 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,919 Speaker 5: give a wink and now there maybe, But on these 803 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,439 Speaker 5: big democracy questions, they're not ready to take that lead. 804 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,120 Speaker 5: And so in Alabama we won. Alabama refused to then 805 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 5: draw awful map, so we had the court do it. 806 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,799 Speaker 5: Now black voters will have two rather than one black 807 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,440 Speaker 5: opportunity district. We have won a case in Louisiana, we 808 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,760 Speaker 5: have one a case in Georgia, same theory, same results. 809 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 5: Both of those states are traveling the road that Alabama did, 810 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 5: which is they're refusing to comply with the law. And 811 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,680 Speaker 5: in both of those cases, we are going to be 812 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 5: pushing the courts to draw new maps in time for 813 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 5: twenty twenty four. So you know, again, the courts continue 814 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,800 Speaker 5: to be imperfect in many respects, but they are still 815 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,880 Speaker 5: among the strongest bulwarks to protect democracy. 816 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: Do you find it? I mean, I know that we 817 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,280 Speaker 1: shouldn't think, you know, when we think about this country, 818 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,440 Speaker 1: we shouldn't be so surprised. But are you surprised that 819 00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 1: you have these state legislatures saying no to the Supreme Court? 820 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:01,239 Speaker 4: No? 821 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,840 Speaker 5: I mean, the same impulse that led the governor of 822 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:10,320 Speaker 5: Alabama to stand at the schoolhouse doors is what's leading 823 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 5: this here. And I want to make clear what that 824 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,279 Speaker 5: is because it's a bit of a twist on the Oh, 825 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 5: they're racist. This is not to say they're not racist, 826 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,440 Speaker 5: but I think it's actually in some ways more pernicious 827 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,839 Speaker 5: than that, Molly, which is that they would rather not 828 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 5: they would rather be seen defying a court order than 829 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:34,279 Speaker 5: complying with You know that image of George Wallace at 830 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,919 Speaker 5: the schoolhouse doors. He knew, he knew that those black 831 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,200 Speaker 5: students were going to get registered, he knew it, but 832 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,160 Speaker 5: he wanted the political theater of it being done over 833 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,160 Speaker 5: his objection. And so one of the things that has 834 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,840 Speaker 5: returned in the era of Trump is the Republican need 835 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,719 Speaker 5: for the political theater of being oppositional to the rule 836 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 5: of law, oppositional to voting rights, oppositional to democracy, and 837 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,240 Speaker 5: that's really really dangerous. But not on resident I'm. 838 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 1: Glad you talked about that, because it's so important to 839 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,239 Speaker 1: remember where we came from as a country, and that 840 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,640 Speaker 1: Trump is not I mean, yes, he's an outliar for now, 841 00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,560 Speaker 1: and yes he's an enormous step backwards, but he's not 842 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,479 Speaker 1: such a huge deviation from some of the many sort 843 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 1: of sinister figures we've had in early American days. And 844 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,240 Speaker 1: I think that's a really a good point. 845 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,879 Speaker 5: He also, by the way, Molly could not be accomplishing 846 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:32,279 Speaker 5: what he is accomplishing in the Republican Party without a 847 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,120 Speaker 5: party of collaborators. Oh yes, I mean Mike Johnson is 848 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,000 Speaker 5: a collaborator for January six Will you talk. 849 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,880 Speaker 1: About Mike Johnson because he was He's sort of got 850 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 1: on Trump's radar by trying overturn the election, right, Yeah, 851 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:45,320 Speaker 1: So I wrote. 852 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,560 Speaker 5: A piece on Democracy Docket that said that Mike Johnson, 853 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,960 Speaker 5: other than Donald Trump, is the most culpable federal elected 854 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,200 Speaker 5: official in the events of January sixth. Say more right, 855 00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:56,760 Speaker 5: So if you take Donald Trump out of the equation 856 00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,920 Speaker 5: and you just say who was elected, who was in 857 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,040 Speaker 5: federal office that was most culpable for January sixth, I 858 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 5: think there's no question it's the now speaker, Mike Johnson. 859 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,839 Speaker 5: And that's because when he was just Congressman Johnson, he 860 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:13,800 Speaker 5: organized the Amicus brief whereby one hundred and twenty six 861 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:18,719 Speaker 5: House Republicans supported a frivolous lawsuit that Texas filed in 862 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,720 Speaker 5: December to throw out the election results in four states. 863 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,279 Speaker 5: You may remember that in December of twenty twenty, when 864 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,600 Speaker 5: it was clear that all of their litigation options were collapsing. 865 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,680 Speaker 5: They were losing cases around the country on a state 866 00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,000 Speaker 5: by state basis, Texas went to the US Supreme Court 867 00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 5: and asked the Supreme Court to throw out the results 868 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 5: in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan. 869 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:47,640 Speaker 1: Crazy even for these Republicans, I have to say, right. 870 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:52,360 Speaker 5: And Mike Johnson, his job was to get Republicans in 871 00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 5: the House to sign onto that brief. And so why 872 00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 5: do I say he was the most culpable because that 873 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,600 Speaker 5: was the organizing tool. If you look at who signed 874 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,759 Speaker 5: onto that brief, that became the organizing effort of what 875 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:12,400 Speaker 5: eventually turned into the protests, that their effort to not 876 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,759 Speaker 5: certify the electors on the night of January six, and 877 00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,080 Speaker 5: we know now there were communications between him and Donald 878 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:23,680 Speaker 5: Trump in which he is conveying to the Republican members 879 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,200 Speaker 5: that Donald Trump has a list of which members are 880 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,680 Speaker 5: on and which members are not on that brief. That is, 881 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:33,120 Speaker 5: as far as we know, the first and most significant 882 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:37,520 Speaker 5: effort to organize Republicans in Congress to try to overturn 883 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,399 Speaker 5: the free and fair election on January six. 884 00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:44,319 Speaker 1: Do you think that Johnson really thought he had a 885 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,320 Speaker 1: shot with us or do you think he just thought 886 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,520 Speaker 1: that he would help him with Trump and the Republican Party. 887 00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:56,239 Speaker 5: I think we underestimate Republicans when we think that they 888 00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:57,680 Speaker 5: are in on it. It's one of the things I 889 00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,440 Speaker 5: worry about. Sometimes I'll hear, you know, democratic elected officials 890 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,800 Speaker 5: or pundits say, oh, you know, Republicans, they understand what 891 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,160 Speaker 5: they're doing and they're just humoring Trump, or you know, 892 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,040 Speaker 5: Mitt Romney will say, oh, he's just saying those things 893 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,200 Speaker 5: like this is deadly serious. You know, Mike Johnson was 894 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,520 Speaker 5: a backbench member of the House. He is a true believer. 895 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,840 Speaker 5: I believe he believed that Donald Trump should stay in office. 896 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,480 Speaker 5: I believe that he was not concerned about the voters 897 00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,400 Speaker 5: in four states. I think he was not concerned about democracy. 898 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,799 Speaker 5: And I think that we make a real mistake on 899 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,719 Speaker 5: our side if we think that Stephen Miller is just 900 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,840 Speaker 5: doing shtick, that Steve Bannon is just doing theater. 901 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,400 Speaker 1: No, they want a result, Yeah, they want a result, 902 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,279 Speaker 1: but just sort of more specifically, do you think they 903 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,560 Speaker 1: thought there was a legal mechanism for this or you 904 00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,320 Speaker 1: thought that You think they thought we'll just try anyway 905 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:53,080 Speaker 1: and maybe it works. 906 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:57,719 Speaker 5: I think that he organized them in that instance, not 907 00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,440 Speaker 5: because they thought they were going to win in the 908 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:04,200 Speaker 5: Supreme Court, but because Donald Trump needed a way to 909 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 5: solidify all of the House Republican and so Molly, here 910 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,560 Speaker 5: is here is the thing. Mike Johnson gets one hundred 911 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,160 Speaker 5: and twenty six of them in December. By the time 912 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,040 Speaker 5: you get to January sixth, the number of Republicans in 913 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 5: the House who opposed certification jumps one hundred and thirty nine. 914 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,440 Speaker 5: That brief was the thing that started to create the 915 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,640 Speaker 5: blacklist or the white list for Republicans. He makes clear 916 00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,160 Speaker 5: to his colleagues, if you're not on this brief, Donald 917 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,799 Speaker 5: Trump will know he's looking at the names. And so 918 00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,640 Speaker 5: that's why I say he was so culpable. 919 00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:38,759 Speaker 1: Mark Haunting as always, thank you for joining us, Thank you. 920 00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:45,719 Speaker 5: For having me no moment, Oh fuck only Jesse Cannon, 921 00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,200 Speaker 5: Molly john Fast the vibes impeachment hearing. 922 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:51,160 Speaker 1: It's got bad vibes. 923 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:52,040 Speaker 2: If you're asking me. 924 00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:56,600 Speaker 1: It's got bad vibes for Republicans. Dozens and dozens of Republicans, 925 00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,840 Speaker 1: even Fox News hosts let that sink in have bluntly 926 00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:04,640 Speaker 1: admitted there's no evidence to support impeaching President Biden. This 927 00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:09,120 Speaker 1: is a waste of time. Congressman McGovern he said it 928 00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:15,319 Speaker 1: not me, poor, poor, poor, never mind, fuck them, they 929 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,600 Speaker 1: are our moment of fuckery. That's it for this episode 930 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,240 Speaker 1: of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday 931 00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,040 Speaker 1: to hear the best minds in politics makes sense of 932 00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:29,760 Speaker 1: all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please 933 00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,280 Speaker 1: send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 934 00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:34,360 Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.