1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: The Favorite podcast is presented by FanDuel sports Book. Football 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: season is coming and there is no better place to 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: start making every moment more than with FanDuel. I love 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: betting with fandul because they've got great odds and markets 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: for NFL futures, MLB PG eight two or tennis and more. 6 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: Plus their app is safe, easy to use, and when 7 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: I win, I get paid out fast. If you're new, 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: just download the vandel sports Book app to get started 9 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: now and sign up with promo code Favorites so they 10 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: know I sent you. You must be twenty one and 11 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: over and present in select states only. Gambling problem called 12 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: one next Step or text next step to five two 13 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: in Arizona called one Gambler. Or visit FanDuel dot com 14 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: slash r G in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, 15 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: Virginia one eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven 16 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: seven seven or visit CCPG dot org slash chat in 17 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: Connecticut one eight hundred nine with it in Indiana one 18 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: eight seven seven seven seven zero stop in the Louis 19 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: Anna one eight seven seven Hope and Why or text 20 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: Hope and Why four seven three six nine in New York, Tennessee. 21 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: Redline is one eight eight nine nine one eight hundred 22 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: five to two four seven zero zero in Wyoming, or 23 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: visit one eight hundred gambler dot net in West Virginia. 24 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites the Podcast from the Volume and 25 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: Podcast Network. I am Shad Mellman, Chief Content Officer of 26 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: the Action Network. I am joined as always by my bff, 27 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: my companion, my compadre professional better from the Fighting City 28 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: of Philadelphia, South Jersey's finest, Simon Hunter. How did I 29 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: not ask you about your vacation? I took a couple 30 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: of a couple of people, reached out to He said, 31 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: how did you not ask Chad about Italy? So real quick? 32 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: Well what was Italy? Brother? Simon? Let me tell you something. 33 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: I don't expect anybody to ask me questions about myself. 34 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 1: That is the burden I've placed on myself as a leader. 35 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: All I can do is show interest in the people 36 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: that I work with, care about them as deeply as 37 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: I can, and if I don't get it back, it's fine. 38 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: I don't take it personally, it doesn't matter. My job 39 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,839 Speaker 1: is to make sure that everybody that I work with 40 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: is lifted up so I'm not offended by it. Chad 41 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: Millman is proud of himself. Italy was so shamefully, obnoxiously excellent. 42 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: I almost hesitate to talk about it in a public 43 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: forum because the rest of us are never going to 44 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: go there, so you're just you don't want to rather 45 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: than our faces. But I get it. I don't know 46 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: that you'll go there and do it the way that 47 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: I did it, you know, being the mogul that I am. Yeah, 48 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: probably not gonna sell a company worth two millions, so 49 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: I'm probably not gonna do it. Lucky you did. It 50 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: was truly extraordinary. I will say this that we got 51 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: very lucky. There were nine of us. It was me 52 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: and my wife and our two boys, and my sister 53 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: and her husband and their three kids. It's amazing to 54 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: go away. You're lucky if you can get to go away. 55 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: It was amazing to experience a lot of things in Italy. 56 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: The Colosseum, which I sent you in mitchell a picture 57 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: of it, was spectacular, it totally. My wife described it 58 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: yesterday to a friend like it was just a special, 59 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: wonderful trip. We're lucky to have done it. You'd recommend it, though, 60 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: someone ask you, what should I spend a bunch of 61 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: money go to Italy? You would say, yeah, alright, Simon. 62 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: One of the hardest things about coming back is mentally transitioning. 63 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: One of the hardest things about being a professional better. 64 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: Being a better generally generally is mentally fighting through the 65 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: mock You and I talked about this all last year. 66 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: We will be influenced by what we see, we will 67 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: be influenced by what here. Last year, it probably took 68 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: us four or five weeks to get into a zone 69 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: where we got out of the trash and just started 70 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: focusing on what we know is right and staying true 71 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: to that course no matter what, because we understand like 72 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: how we can be at our best. There is nobody, 73 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: nobody who is a better expert at understanding performance the 74 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: mental aspects of performance than our guest today. If you 75 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: listen to the show, you're probably a sports better. And 76 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: whether you do it recreationally or professionally, As I said, 77 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: it's no secret that sports betting can be one of 78 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: the toughest, most mentally exhausting activities around. Simon. We brought 79 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: in an expert who's exploring the science behind toughness and 80 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: by the way, this. This timing couldn't be better, because 81 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: we're getting into the point where we're all going to 82 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: have to start making hard decisions as better. Today's guest, 83 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: Steve Magnus, is a perform him, an expert and author 84 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: as well as the coach to some of the top 85 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: distant runners in the world, literally writing the book on 86 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: the subject the science running. But today he's got a 87 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: new book, folks. We'll be talking to him about that book, 88 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: Do Hard Things. It re examines how we perceive the 89 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: traditional model of toughness and it's mentality of fear, false 90 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: bravado hiding weaknesses. In the sports betting world, we see 91 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: plenty of this. Steve, You're going to have a captive 92 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: audience today, and as someone who is an avid peloton 93 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: or rower exerciser, I'm gonna have a lot of questions. Welcome. Oh, 94 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: thanks so much for having me. I'm so thrilled to 95 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: be here, especially after your Italy vacation. I'm now jealous 96 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: as well as thrilled to be here. But you know, listen, 97 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: you're you're a bestselling author. I'm sure you could find 98 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: a way to get there. You know that. I've been 99 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: to Italy once, but it was unfortunately to watch a 100 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: track meet that I had people competing at, and I 101 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: had like three hours to tour all of Rome. So 102 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: I may or may not have snuck into the Colosseum 103 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 1: instead of waiting on all those lines, but it in 104 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: those three hours, it was. It was a great place. 105 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: So the Colosseum is a good transition to what we're 106 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: talking about because it was sort of, you know, a 107 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: spectacle to perform in the Colosseum. I mean everything in 108 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: the Colosseum basically ended in death. It would be a 109 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: day of death. But the idea of sport, the idea 110 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: of being mentally tough. Do you are an expert on this? 111 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: So before we even get into how you become an 112 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: expert or what you tell people or how people fight 113 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: through it, give me a time recently when you haven't 114 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: been mentally tough and you had to fight your way 115 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: out of it. Oh man, that's a good question. Um, 116 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: so i'll give it. I'll give it in that actually 117 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: the exercise realm because at one point I was a 118 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: really good athlete, but as often happens with most of us, 119 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: as we get older and a job and family and 120 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: real life, our fitness starts to decline, and recently I've 121 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: been through about of like injuries and then just I'll 122 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: just say it. It's been like a hundred degrees in 123 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: my hometown of Houston, Texas, so it's miserable to be outside. 124 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: So I haven't been exercising as much. So you know what, 125 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: I was like, all right, I'm gonna get back on it. 126 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: I go out first day after coming back, not in 127 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: the best shape, but still have that mentality as if 128 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: I am. So I go out for a run as 129 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: if I am, you know, my younger in shape, fast self. 130 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: And it was miserable and I quit. I was like this, 131 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: this sucks. And for me as an athlete, that's like, 132 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's an anathma to who I am. 133 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: But it just shows you that like that mental muscle 134 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: to handle difficult things, it is a skill that we 135 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: can develop and that will also decrease and go away 136 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: if we don't flex that muscle enough, even in those 137 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: who of us who have like a lifetime experience of it. God, 138 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: that's so interesting that you say that, because I'm not 139 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: saying it to sounds like a jerk. I will exercise 140 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: a lot. Went to Italy for two weeks, actually worked 141 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: out in the gym in the hotel, went running a 142 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: couple of times outside even though it was close to 143 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: a hundred degrees even at like eight in the morning. 144 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: But I came back and like mentally could not get 145 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: myself into it. In my workouts since I got back 146 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: had been terrible, like shorter, not as high performance, not 147 00:08:55,040 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: as hard, and like mentally cannot breakthrough I think of 148 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: it because I just wasn't performing it sort of the 149 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: same level and intervals and intensity as I was before. 150 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: How do you retrain yourself? How do you get your 151 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: mind to be exercising as a muscle like that? Yeah, 152 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: so a lot of it is being in that experience 153 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: and then um being able to like sit with it 154 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: experience and then navigate through it because you have to 155 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: look at it this way. Our brain is a protective machine. 156 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: So the reason it tells you, hey, don't go out 157 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: and exercise, don't do that, is because it's something that 158 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 1: is outside of your norm. It's the same experience when 159 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: maybe you know you're making a risky bet or like 160 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: thinking about it, your brain is sitting there like, don't 161 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: do this, don't take this risk. Why because it's it 162 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: wants to be safe and comfortable, so that anything that 163 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: stretches that, you know, that safety or comfort or pushes 164 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: us out of that zone are kind of security mind 165 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: comes about on and sounds that alarm and tells us 166 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: to like freak out, stop escape. The way that we 167 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: get used to it again is often not to like, hey, 168 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna like ignore that push through it, but 169 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: to realize and recognize, Okay, why is this happening in 170 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: this moment. So for you coming back from Italy, it's 171 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: a great thing, all that good stuff. You just said, 172 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 1: your intensity, your intervals were a little bit worse, right, Well, 173 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: what does that send? That sends a message that, oh, 174 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: this isn't worth it anymore. We're not making progress, Like 175 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: we're not getting better. We are motivated when we think 176 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: we are getting better. When we don't have a shot, 177 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: or we feel like we're going the wrong way or 178 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: we're losing and our bets or whatever have you, that 179 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: motivation is gonna plumb in. So you have to kind 180 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: of figure out, Okay, how do I reframe things and 181 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: get myself back in the state where I see progress, 182 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: where maybe I'm not at my best self but I 183 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: can start where I am and say, Okay, you know, 184 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: maybe a month ago I was doing acts, but let's 185 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: forget about that and let's focus on where I am 186 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: now and figure out how to get that motivation back 187 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 1: by giving your yourself a path and route towards progress. 188 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: One more question before I left, Simon jump in. As 189 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: an athlete, what made you have the confidence to say, 190 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: wait a second, I feel like I can be an 191 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: expert in telling people how to be mentally stronger. So 192 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: I think that took a very long time, and I 193 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: think it was on it honestly from my own struggles 194 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: in the places where I didn't succeed. So briefly, i'll 195 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: give you an example is, as I said, I was 196 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: a really good athlete in high school. I ran a 197 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: mile in four minutes in one second, which was just 198 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: shy of that four minute barrier, and the fastest high 199 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: schooler in the nation at that point. So in my 200 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: mind I saw like, oh, I'm gonna like go to 201 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: the Olympics do all this crazy stuff. Well, I never 202 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: got better, So part of that push me towards evaluating 203 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: why that happened and why I couldn't get through this 204 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: this kind of moment or breakthrough that I so desperately 205 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: wanted and that pushed me down this search to be like, Okay, well, 206 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: a lot of that is the psychological game. It's that 207 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: mental muscle we're talking about. So a lot of it, 208 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: like where do you get that confidence from being able 209 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: to tell people how to get stronger, tougher, whatever? It 210 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: is a lot of it comes from my own failings 211 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: and my own struggle in that situation to figure out, Okay, 212 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: what would I do differently if I was, you know whatever, 213 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: eighteen year old Steve, How could I now handle this 214 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: situation to be able to get on the other side 215 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: of it instead of being stuck in that that that barrier. 216 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: I think you touched on a little bit like something 217 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: that I attribute a lot to sports, Like I learned 218 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,719 Speaker 1: very young that losing is a part of life. Right 219 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: you don't play sports, You're not really losing a lot 220 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: in life, right, like, unless you're playing video games against 221 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: other people. But I do think it's good that one 222 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: of the best parts of sports is losing and learning 223 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: early on that if you want to win, you want 224 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: to do better, you literally just have to put the 225 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: work in. And I've carried that over to sports betting, 226 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: where my job is bouncing back from losing, like I'm 227 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: gonna lose and I'm gonna lose a lot of money, 228 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: and it's like one of these stressors where that's probably 229 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: the hardest part of my job. I tell people all 230 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: the time, you can build a model. Anyone in the 231 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: world can go online, find a model, build it. In 232 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: no world does that make you a sports better because 233 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: there's just so many other pillars that go into it, 234 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: and one of them is money management. And how do 235 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: you affect after loss? Is like I could tell you 236 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: every loss I've ever had, I can't tell you, but 237 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: every win. Right, it's just like human nature, right, we 238 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: remember survival instincts. Remember the loss is not so much 239 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 1: to wins. And I would just love to hear a 240 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: perspective a guy that you know, you've been around sports, 241 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: you get how everything is kind of a marathon, it's 242 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: not a sprit, and what is your view on sports, 243 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: but and how gods can use that in that field 244 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: where it's like you're gonna lose. That's just part of 245 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: life and part of sports betting. Yeah, So I'm so 246 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: glad you brought this up because I think it In 247 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: the US, often what happens is we learn how to 248 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: lose very poorly, which is we almost linger on it 249 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: and think that we should, you know, feel like it's 250 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: the end of the world, and like really experience that emotion. 251 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: You see this with like football coaches all the all 252 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: the time, where they're just like, you should despise losing, 253 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: and I get it, losing isn't fun. But if we 254 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: constantly ingrain that negative view of losing, what it does 255 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: is it puts us in a fear, in an avoidance state. 256 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: So if I sit there and I'm like, you know, 257 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: I make a bet and I lose a lot if 258 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: I linger in it, all I'm doing is training my 259 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: brain to say, this state really sucks, I should do 260 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: everything possible to avoid it, which isn't the place to 261 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: perform out. You want to perform out of what we'd 262 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: call a pro ng or like you know, being proactive 263 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: and playing to win versus playing not to lose. And 264 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: actually there's some fascinating research in the sports world that 265 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: shows that. For example, after a tough loss, there was 266 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: a study on professional rugby players, some of the toughest 267 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: guys ever that showed that you know, if a coach 268 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: just like kept berating them after a loss and said, hey, 269 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: this is where you messed up. This is how you 270 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: screwed up, Like, look at this game film and see 271 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: everything you did wrong. Right afterwards, what happened is they 272 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: experienced this this stress response, They experience a high level 273 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: of stress hormone cortisol. And then what happens is a 274 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: week later in their next game, those who went through 275 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: that tough loss and like had their coaches berating them, 276 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: they were stressed more before the next game and they 277 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: played worse. On the flip side, the players who said, hey, 278 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: that loss sucked, the coaches are like, that lost sucks, 279 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: here's what we can learn from it, but let's move on. 280 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: Before the next game that week later, they had an 281 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: increase in testosterone, a positive stress hormone, and they were 282 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: able to like have confidence and take on that game 283 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: and they played better. So often, like, how we handle 284 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: those losses impacts us, not just in that moment, but 285 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: in impacts how we're going to bounce back and be 286 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: ready to do the thing again. What do you do 287 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: if you're like Simon, if you're a better you're going 288 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: through a season, You're not going to have that that 289 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: that sort of external motivation or de motivator. It's all 290 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: got to be internal. What are the hard things that 291 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: you need to sort of steal yourself for when you're 292 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: the only machine that's powering it. It's like it's like 293 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: a marathon, right, Like you're not gonna have someone yelling 294 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: at you in the middle of a race. How do 295 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: you get through two miles? How do you get through 296 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: a seventeen week andfl season with internally having to get 297 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: through hard things? Yeah, it's it's incredibly difficult. And I 298 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: think one of the things, especially when it's you know, 299 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: I almost equate betting to like individual sports where you 300 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: don't have that support group around you, where it's just 301 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: kind of you alone in your head and you're trying 302 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: to navigate that and that makes it ten x you know, 303 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: more difficult. And one of the reasons is because what 304 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: happens is we essentially internalize everything. So it's not just 305 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: that oh, I lost this bet or I wasn't successful 306 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,479 Speaker 1: betting on this game. Your brain almost internalizes it as 307 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: like I am a loser, like it is my character 308 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: that is like at fault here. We're in games, team games, 309 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: like you can blame it on someone else. You can 310 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: like you have this external that you can say, oh 311 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: is the coach, it was the ref, it was someone 312 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: else's in in betting. When it's just you making those bets, 313 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: you can't do that. So a couple of things that 314 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: really help getting through that is almost creating your own 315 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: like support and structure to make it where you realize that, 316 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: like betting is the thing that you do and it's 317 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: really important, but it is not your soul defining like 318 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: reason and and being on this world. There are other 319 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: aspects or other parts of your life that like you 320 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: can get meaning and value and whatever have you. Not 321 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: saying make it less important. I'm just saying, like, have 322 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: some diversity of sources of meaning to go to. And 323 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: then the other thing that I think is really important 324 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: is having a clarity, having clarity on like the purpose 325 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: and what betting brings to the table, because like success 326 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: and failure can pull us towards like you know, almost 327 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: being a little delusional on those external things, and we 328 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: need to have reminders of like, well, why do I 329 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,959 Speaker 1: choose to do this? Why do I choose to go 330 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: through this? You know, sevent team game season that can 331 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: cause me to go a little bit crazy. Having those 332 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: reminders that like center you allows you to get through 333 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: that that that marathon without you know, having your motivation 334 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: completely go haywire. You mentioned something really interesting before that 335 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: if you're only doing something to improve performance, it can 336 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: be demotivating. And I think that gamblers can teach us 337 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: a lot about decision making, the way they approach bets, 338 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: the way they approach managing consequences and making decisions when 339 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: a lot of money is at stake, when risk, and 340 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: then how gamblers tend to sleep relatively well, win or 341 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: lose because they've gone through a process that allows them 342 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: to feel comfortable with the decision, and that process will 343 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: allow them to make the same decision the next time 344 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: if all those circumstances are lining up. What's interesting to 345 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: me is that, and I don't know how you translate 346 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: this to high performance athletes, but the best betters in 347 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 1: the world, signment is one of them. If they're winning 348 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: five point three times out of ten, they're superheroes, which 349 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: isn't very good like in the grand scheme of things 350 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: you want to perform at, but is that reality for anybody? Yeah, 351 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: what I would translate this to sport is actually you see, 352 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 1: the best athletes are almost like hyper real on embracing 353 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: the reality of the situation they they experience. So we 354 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: often think that athletes are like the best athletes are 355 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: like the ones who are like super overconfident and like 356 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: have all this bravado and all that stuff. But what 357 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: the research actually shows and what the experience of the 358 00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: best athlete shows that they can like disting ish like 359 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: the task that they have at hand versus their ability 360 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: to handle that or their capabilities, and they match that 361 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: up in aligne that very you know, concretely, And I 362 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: think that's what you're getting at here, is that with 363 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: gamblers and betters, it's not hey, I need to think 364 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: that I need to you know, win every bet. It's 365 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: being realistic on the sense that if I win, you know, 366 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: five point three out of ten times, that's realistic and 367 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: that sets you up more for success and maybe not 368 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: having that like negative emotional arousal where you think like, oh, 369 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: I should win all the time or I should win 370 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: most of the time, because that negative stress and arousal 371 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: can get in the way of your decision making. The 372 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 1: NFL Week one odds are out, and now is the 373 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: time to try Vandual Sports Book if you haven't already 374 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: get in on the action early this season. Right now, 375 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: Vandal Sports Book customers can get a no sweat first 376 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: bet to one thousand dollars. Personally, my favorite NFL bet 377 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: right now is the Atlanta Falcons over their win total 378 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: of four and a half this season. Just sign up 379 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: using promo code favorites, place your first bet, and Fandal 380 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: would give you up to one thousand dollars back in 381 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: free bets if you don't win. There's no better place 382 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: to get ready for the football season than on FanDuel, 383 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: America's number one sports book, an official sports betting partner 384 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: of the NFL. Download the FanDuel Sports Book app and 385 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: sign up using promo code Favorites to get started with 386 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: your no sweat first bet up to one thousand dollars. 387 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: You must be twenty one or over and present in Arizona, Connecticut, Iowa, Illinois, 388 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: Louisiana in permitted parish is only, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, 389 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: West Virginia, or Wyoming. First online real money wager only 390 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: refund issued as non withdraw able free bets that expire 391 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: fourteen days after receipt. Restrictions apply. Gambon problem called one 392 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: eight hundred next step or text next step to five 393 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: three three four two in Arizona one eight hundred gambler 394 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: or visit vanduel dot com slash RG in Colorado, Indiana, 395 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: New Jersey. In Virginia one eight eight eight seven eight 396 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: nine seven seven seven seven, or visit CCPG dot org 397 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: slash chat in Connecticut. One eight hundred to seven zero 398 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: seven one seven for confidential help in Michigan called the 399 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: Tennessee Redline one eight hundred eight eight nine nine seven 400 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: eight nine, or visit one eight hundred gambler dot net 401 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: in West Virginia. Yeah, I talked on her all the 402 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: time about like I'm human as much as I want 403 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: to come on here and be like I'm living the dream, 404 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: like I try to to rub it on people's faces 405 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: on here, but I'm literally a guy in my early thirties, 406 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: no wife, for kids, tons of money, worked really hard 407 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: in the industry, and now it's like, you know, it's stressful, 408 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: but the stressful days are kind of behind me a 409 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: little bit, where like, yeah, I'm stressing about football, but 410 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: am I hungry? Am I like worried about health insurance 411 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: like all that stuff. No, So I think what you 412 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: said is good about perspect that where it's like I 413 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: hate sometimes doing this show chat. I'm not gonna lie 414 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: to you, Like there's sometimes where I'll lose big money 415 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: and I gotta come on this podcast and talk about 416 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: losing that big money and it's like literally like reopening 417 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: up a wound, right, like I've already done the surgery. Basically, 418 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: my rule is I can drink, I can smoke, do whatever. 419 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: Sunday night, Monday morning, it's a new week, right, I 420 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: dive into the new data, it's a new week for football. 421 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: But then I come on the show and say we 422 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 1: do it on Tuesday, and it's like I gotta relive 423 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: a horror. So I would say that was probably something 424 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 1: I did just to where as a normal better that's 425 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: that's not normal, Like you just you you would never 426 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: talk about again being killed on a Sunday and you 427 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: have to re talk about it on Tuesday, where it's 428 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 1: like that's part of the gig. So I would love 429 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: to hear perspective of the failure because to me, that's 430 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 1: just such an important thing in life for people like 431 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: you said, about I think that's an American thing, the 432 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: failure thing, where it's like I love failing, Like I 433 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: just I have all these memories of my life of 434 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: these risk I've taken and have I failed, And it 435 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: was like who cares? Like, like literally, I tell people 436 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: the time about talking to girls if she says no 437 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: to you, Like if you go up to ask her 438 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: buy a drink or even talk to her and she 439 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: says no, who cares. It's literally, you just took ten 440 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: seconds of your life. You already know the answer. It's 441 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: on you move to the next one. And that's just 442 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: my perspective of sports betting where it's like it hurts man, 443 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: like losing a lot of money on a stupid football game. 444 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: It really hurts. But just like you talked about these 445 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: sports athletes, I'm kind of bread for it, Like I 446 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 1: I think one of my things, I'm like, I'm best 447 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: that I've had something weird in my brain where it's 448 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: like I am unfazed by like I just know you 449 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: put the work in, the winning comes. And I feel 450 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: like you just talked about that with athletes, like they 451 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: have the same way of thinking. Yeah, no, you're probably 452 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 1: wired in the same way that elite athletes are um 453 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: and actually there's some fascinating work on neuroscience in the 454 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: brain that shows how this occurs, which essentially we have 455 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: think of it as we have this like sensitivity of 456 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: an alarm. And for some people it's like they fail 457 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: and it's like the alarm goes off and it's like 458 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: life or death. My my life is over. For other people, 459 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: it's like a blip where it's like, yeah, this sucks, 460 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: I'm experiencing this, but like that blip is gonna get 461 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: turned down and I'm guessing if like we could look 462 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: in your brain, that's how your brain is simon, Like 463 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: you have done that. And what's interesting is you just 464 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: got out there is okay. People hear that and they're like, 465 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: oh am I born with that or not. Well, the 466 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: research is again clear, is like yeah, some people are 467 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: better at it than others, but we all can train 468 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: to improve that that kind of alarm sensitivity. How do 469 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: you do that? Two main things is, and you just 470 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: describe this, you inoculate yourself. If you put yourself in 471 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: situations that like make that alarm kind of go off 472 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: where you're a little uncertain and then realize, okay, what's 473 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: the big deal? Like I went, I went and talked 474 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,719 Speaker 1: to that girl, got rejected, Like is my what my 475 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: life over? No, I'm just moving on to the next thing. 476 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: The more you do things like that in your life, like, 477 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: the more that tells your brain that hey, I'm okay 478 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 1: with failure. And the other thing that is really important 479 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: here is also your mindset and approach, which we can 480 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: all control. And there was some wonderful research in the 481 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: world of Special Forces and Navy Navy Seals that found 482 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: that they tend to have a stress is enhancing or 483 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: like failure is positive mindset because they realize, oh, yeah, 484 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: this is gonna be really difficult. But this is also 485 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: where the growth comes from. If I fail, I often 486 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: learned something about myself that I don't learn when I succeeded, 487 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: so it can be this positive. And they found that 488 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: again most of the Navy Seals have this just subtle 489 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: mindset shift that other people often don't. So to me, 490 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: it it's pretty simple. It's like put yourself in the 491 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: right mindset and then allow yourself to explore and take 492 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,479 Speaker 1: risks and bail And sometimes that means like starting with 493 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: really simple things before you jump to the big thing. 494 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: What's a simple thing? I mean it could be as 495 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: simple as you know. The example Simon said there is like, 496 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: you know, are you scared to talk to women at bars? 497 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: Will go force yourself to go talk to two or three? 498 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: Like make that decision? Or it could be something and 499 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: you're I guess the What I would say is anything 500 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: that puts you in a in a mindset where you're like, oh, 501 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: I should avoid doing this, go towards it, embrace it, 502 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: or on the flip side, anything that like feels like 503 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: a struggle to avoid, such as I don't know, um, 504 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: picking up your phone all the time while you're doing 505 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: stuff right because the phone calls you to pick it 506 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: up and you feel anxiety. If you say, oh, I'm 507 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: just gonna let that phone like sit there and buzz 508 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: and beep and what have you, that's another opportunity to 509 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: train that mental muscle, because your alarm is essentially saying, hey, 510 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: my phone is buzzing and beeping. I should pick it up, 511 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: Like this could be like life or death calling me. 512 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: And if you just like learn to sit with it 513 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: for a minute, you'll feel that sensation and that alarm dissipation, 514 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: and your brain will realize, oh I'm I'm in control. 515 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: I get to make the decision. So even the simplest 516 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: things like that are opportunities where you can train that 517 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: mental muscle. As my favorite Peloton instructor and a love 518 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: Well might say, change is inevitable, growth is optional. You know, 519 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: I think maybe you should write a book about that. 520 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: There you go, I'll give you the royalties on the 521 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: next book. But I think that is a very astute point. 522 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: Is we're all going to change in different areas, but 523 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: it's our It depends on like whether we're adapting in 524 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: a positive direction or not, and we're in charge of 525 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: like putting ourselves in position to do those things. Often 526 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: it's like do we want to avoid the difficult thing 527 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: and stay in that this comfort zone or do we 528 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: want to embrace it? And the other reasons. You know. 529 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: The other thing I'd be remiss if I didn't say, 530 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: because it ties into betting, is if you look at 531 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: gamblers investment bankers, which is you know, essentially gambling is 532 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: the psychology shows they are much better at being in 533 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: tune and dealing with their emotions instead of avoiding it 534 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: because they know when to listen and when to say 535 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: you know what I'm I'm I'm gonna block this out 536 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: and just move forward with my process and my decision. 537 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: So one of the things that's it's really interesting you 538 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: say that because another thing that I think gamblers do 539 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: very well, and I wonder if this is something that 540 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: you tell your athletes to do and if you talk 541 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: about um a sort of a regular part of the practice, 542 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: is how much introspection do you have to do about 543 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: previous performance. Yeah, so it's it's really important because I 544 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: get again, I think what happens here is when you 545 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: enter respect, what you're doing is two things. Is A 546 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: you're shifting to this like I'm gonna learn from the 547 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: failure mindset, and then be you're also making the success 548 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: or failure. You're translating it from an emotional thing to 549 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: essentially analytical thing where it's like, Okay, regardless of what happens, 550 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to process this and figure this out. And 551 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: you see this difference between amateur and professional athletes all 552 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: the time. Amateur athletes often like will flip out when 553 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: you review an introspect. Professionals see it as part of 554 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: the job, and it's like, this is part of it. 555 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: I need to get better. It's why quarterbacks like Tom 556 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: Brady are obsessive of watching game teap They're introspecting, they're learning, 557 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: they're growing all that good stuff, and we can either 558 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: use that to our advantage or it can be this 559 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: thing that we we fear if we avoid it. So 560 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: I think going towards that is a is a very 561 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: important strategy. The people asking that all the time, they're like, 562 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: how do you not freak out? Or like, you know, 563 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: Reugh Free blows a game and I lose a bunch 564 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: of money, Like why don't you go on Twitter or 565 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: going the podcasts and freak out, And it's just I'm 566 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: just so used to her. It's like they're literally it's 567 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: just a waste of energy. You just described it. It's 568 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: like instead of freaking out and blaming, it's like, no, 569 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: I mean a mistake. Need to go back, look at myself, 570 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,719 Speaker 1: Look what I did wrong, Look what I looked overlooked. 571 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: And I feel like that's when the healthiest things for 572 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: sports bettors, where it's like, mean Jack could come on 573 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: every Tuesday and talk about how bad the refs were, 574 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: Like we try not to because but sometimes we can't 575 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: help because we're just so mad but like that's one 576 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: of the things I've really learned where it's just like 577 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: it's just I think you talked about it. It's like 578 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: a waste of your mental energy. You're you're literally not 579 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,479 Speaker 1: improving your life. You're just venting about something that's already happened. 580 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: So I do think that's just you just talked about 581 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: where it's like I I catch myself a lot trying 582 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: to do that, where it's like, don't focus so hard 583 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: on the past of things you can't control instead of 584 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: focus on the future of things you can control. Exactly. 585 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: And again, I you know, maybe to illustrate this point 586 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: for your listeners, again, I'm gonna turn to the research. 587 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: But they they there was this one study that compared 588 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: essentially Eastern expert meditators versus Joe blow American on the 589 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: street when experiencing something that's like really stressful, and the 590 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: typical American gets a triple dose of stress. They're freaking 591 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: out going into the stressful thing, they're freaking out during 592 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: the stressful thing, and then that that stress is lingering after. 593 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: Just like Simon said, you look at expert meditators, their 594 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: stress levels both in their body and brain only went 595 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: up once during the difficult thing when it's supposed to 596 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: go up. So I think that lesson applies to the 597 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: rest of us. Is if we're freaking out afterwards after 598 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: something stressful already occurred, like what good is that going 599 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: to do? It's just gonna cause us to kind of 600 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: linger and be in a state where we can't process 601 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: and deal with the thing and improve upon it. So 602 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: how do we learn to turn that off and get 603 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: back to kind of you know state Simon just talked about, 604 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: which is you know, process, deal with it, analyze what 605 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: I can do better, and then move on to the 606 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:16,760 Speaker 1: next one. Do you think this kind of thinking leads 607 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: to good karma? I I do. I'm gonna give you 608 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: a science answer, not surprisingly to a karma question. Psychology 609 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:31,720 Speaker 1: shows that emotions are contagious. So if we are putting 610 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: out negative emotions and energy into the world, that's going 611 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: to translate to those who are around, to the people 612 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,879 Speaker 1: were leading. There's actually fascinating psychology on coaches, like when 613 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: we when coaches flip out and freak out during a 614 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: game because I don't know, ref blew the call, it 615 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: actually leads to players like feeling more stress and performing 616 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: worth so I think the same applies to everybody else, 617 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: is like, are we putting this like positive emotional experience 618 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: into the world. And if we do, like good karma 619 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 1: will come back on us. And if we're not, then 620 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: I think that will last and linger and the next 621 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: go round. We might be slightly biased in a negative state, 622 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: or slightly biased to be like betting out of fear 623 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: or worrying about losing, which isn't the attitude we want 624 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: to take towards performance. I think optimism wins, and I 625 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: feel a hundred more optimistic Steve after talking to you 626 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: on this podcast. I want everybody to go by do 627 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 1: hard things. I want everyone to listen and re listen 628 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: to this podcast. This is an amazing insight, and I 629 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: think it's super helpful for anybody who's about to enter 630 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: the slog of betting over four or five six months 631 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: in the NFL, which can be whether you bet five bucks, 632 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: fifty bucks, five hundred bucks, five thousand bucks. It's an 633 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: emotional roller coaster because so much of it feels out 634 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: of your control. So all of the mental exercises that 635 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: you just talked about today are going to be invaluable 636 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 1: for people. Thank you, Thanks so much. Really enjoyed this conversation. 637 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 1: The book is Too Hard Things. The author is Steve Agnus. 638 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: I am Chad Millman. He is Simon Hunter for Matt Mitchell. 639 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 1: This has been the favorite podcast from the Volume podcast network. 640 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: Downloaded from Spotify, Apple Podcast. Whenever you get your podcast 641 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: rate reviews, subscribe, leave us five stars, say whatever you 642 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: want feedback as a gift until next time. I love you.