Speaker 1: Fran the fucking no one can no one can hit
Speaker 1: it the elf bar down.
Speaker 2: Look, it's just it's just getting me through. I thought
Speaker 2: you were throwing it away. I am gonna throw it away.
Speaker 2: She's sheen.
Speaker 3: I'm me no, ma, not hone yo no no, what
Speaker 3: is your childhood trauma? I am a uk.
Speaker 4: You what's going down the floor?
Speaker 2: Like round?
Speaker 5: Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we give
Speaker 5: yesterday's pop culture today's takes.
Speaker 2: I'm Rose Domin and I'm Fran Dorado.
Speaker 1: Fran, are you an allergy Girlie?
Speaker 2: No, I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not, but I know that you are, as a
Speaker 1: Caucasian constantly suffering through this.
Speaker 2: I am suffering. I just want to show you.
Speaker 5: I have this little like decorative bowl here that I
Speaker 5: usually keep fruit in, and during allergy season it has
Speaker 5: instead become home to hills eye drops. Ooh, nasal spray. Yeah,
Speaker 5: we need to get some real there and I beuprofen
Speaker 5: and then also make up.
Speaker 2: But I did buy some fruit this morning. We love that.
Speaker 5: I'm going to try to fill it in again, because
Speaker 5: it's not as aesthetic when it's full of pill.
Speaker 1: Bobby, I actually if you could argue that it's more
Speaker 1: even more aesthetic when filled with allergy medications, it's more ownable.
Speaker 1: It's a stylistic choice rose your culture.
Speaker 5: I don't know, but I am down bad with allergies.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 5: I do think it says a lot about me as
Speaker 5: a person that the more beautiful it becomes outside, the
Speaker 5: more miserable I become, and the more.
Speaker 2: My body attacks me. But you know, I am, I am.
Speaker 5: I'm fighting it, and I'm going to spend the afternoon
Speaker 5: in Fort Green Park.
Speaker 2: Yes, oh, what are you doing there?
Speaker 5: Peyton and I are meeting up and we're just gonna
Speaker 5: read and eat snacks.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's so day, Yes it is. What are you
Speaker 2: reading right now? Oh?
Speaker 5: Well so I as I said a couple of months ago.
Speaker 5: You know, so we have officially moved Ros's book Club
Speaker 5: over to the Patreon Yes, patreon dot com slash like
Speaker 5: a virgin if you're not already a patron. And the
Speaker 5: book that I said was going to be our next
Speaker 5: discussion topic is Fingersmith by Sarah Waters, and I it's
Speaker 5: been it's been hard for me to get started on
Speaker 5: that because it's very dense, it's historical fiction, and so
Speaker 5: it's really been sitting on the back burner for me.
Speaker 5: And so actually this weekend I read something that I
Speaker 5: think you would like, Frand and I kind of want
Speaker 5: to like pitch you on it and convince you to
Speaker 5: read it. Okay, so we can talk about it on
Speaker 5: the Patreon.
Speaker 2: First of all, how long is it? It's very short.
Speaker 5: I was going to run errands on Saturday and I
Speaker 5: looked at Fingersmith and I was like, Okay, I don't
Speaker 5: want to carry this heavyest book with me, and you
Speaker 5: need something like short that I can read very quickly.
Speaker 5: So I went to my shelf where I keep all
Speaker 5: the books that I haven't read, and there's a lot
Speaker 5: of them. Because I really love to buy books.
Speaker 2: I just bought.
Speaker 1: I just bought two books literally like in a haze
Speaker 1: yesterday with like you know points, and I was like,
Speaker 1: the audacity to buy two more books.
Speaker 2: We're going to make it free.
Speaker 5: Actually, I will lend you this book so the book
Speaker 5: can get a copy. The book is The Sluts by
Speaker 5: Dennis Cooper, and it is a dark, twisted, perverted, sickening
Speaker 5: terrible book that I loved and read in one day.
Speaker 5: It takes place entirely on a website where men review
Speaker 5: gay male escorts, and it's all set in two thousand
Speaker 5: and one, two and two, and it starts off with
Speaker 5: someone reviewing this escort named Brad, and he sort of
Speaker 5: kicks off all of the like fantasies of the men
Speaker 5: who were on the message board, and other men leave
Speaker 5: reviews of him that you're not sure if they're true
Speaker 5: or not. And he is involved in this like horrific
Speaker 5: relationship with this man named Brian who wants to kill him,
Speaker 5: and he kind of wants to be killed, and so
Speaker 5: the book is all told killed wants to be killed.
Speaker 5: So the book is all told through these reviews, through
Speaker 5: emails and faxes, and it all spirals and it you know,
Speaker 5: it takes place when the Internet was first like a thing,
Speaker 5: really And it actually ended up being a very nice
Speaker 5: pairing with a movie that I watched last week, Videodrome,
Speaker 5: the David Cronenberg movie, which is also sort of about
Speaker 5: this idea of like the intersection between sex and violence
Speaker 5: in media, and like the Chicken or the Egg kind
Speaker 5: of question about that, which is like, did media create
Speaker 5: this violence that in that in consuming it made us
Speaker 5: more violent? Or did we create violent media in our
Speaker 5: own image? Because you know in these reviews that these
Speaker 5: men leave there like spinning these really horrific, violent, sexually deviant,
Speaker 5: pedophilic fantasies, and you're realizing that the freedom to share
Speaker 5: them has like made these fantasies even worse than they
Speaker 5: might have been otherwise. But obviously they were like still
Speaker 5: already there and in some way, and they're like it's
Speaker 5: very funny, it's very disgusting, and there's so much about
Speaker 5: like who's lying, who's telling the truth, lots of unreliable narration,
Speaker 5: and like I finished the book thinking I probably didn't
Speaker 5: ever want to read it again, or like read anything
Speaker 5: else the author had written, but I loved the experience
Speaker 5: of reading it.
Speaker 1: Okay, I have three follow up questions. Okay, so it's
Speaker 1: an epistolatory novel, like it's told one hundred percent through
Speaker 1: these messages. Yes, okay, cool, So in that it's kind
Speaker 1: of you said, it's like at the dawn of the Internet.
Speaker 1: So is it kind of like you've got mail coded
Speaker 1: a little bit?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got mail coded.
Speaker 5: If Tom Hanks murdered Meg Ryan and then like.
Speaker 2: Raped her corpse.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, I've forgotten my third question.
Speaker 5: Oh my God, as I said, I read this the
Speaker 5: same week that I watched Video Drome for the first time.
Speaker 5: And I watched Video Drome because on your recommendation. I've
Speaker 5: been watching Dead Ringers on Amazon and I haven't finished
Speaker 5: it yet, but when I do, we'll we'll talk about it.
Speaker 5: And Dead Ringers is based off of a David Cronenberg
Speaker 5: movie called Dead Ringers. In that movie, the twins that
Speaker 5: Rachel Weiss plays are men, so like the TV show
Speaker 5: is a.
Speaker 2: Version of that.
Speaker 5: And before Video Drome, I had only seen one other
Speaker 5: David Cronenberg movie, Crimes of the Future, which I saw
Speaker 5: last year and hated. I think I talked about it
Speaker 5: here at the time Video Drome, however, I loved. It's
Speaker 5: so fucking weird and a young James Woods is in
Speaker 5: it and he's really hot in it, and also Blondie's
Speaker 5: in it and she's really hot in it. It's likedy,
Speaker 5: so good, so fucked up, and also very much about
Speaker 5: like you know, violence, and like snuff films are a
Speaker 5: big part of it. And it's really gross. There's like
Speaker 5: body horror, and it just like sick and twisted, and
Speaker 5: I loved every second of it. Okay, all right, I
Speaker 5: don't know if I'm a Cronenberg early, but I'm definitely
Speaker 5: gonna try and read that book.
Speaker 1: So reading Fundamental. Do you know what else is fundamental?
Speaker 1: Suck session as you called it to me yesterday when
Speaker 1: we were on the.
Speaker 5: Yes a joke which I had definitely made before and
Speaker 5: when even when the first time I made it, I thought,
Speaker 5: this is very obvious, and I'm sure many other people.
Speaker 2: Have made it, and it got like ten thousand lies. No.
Speaker 1: Last night's succession was another banger episode, you know, all
Speaker 1: around this tailgate party that was happening at Tom and
Speaker 1: shives in the inside the episode thing that they do
Speaker 1: after the episodes on HBO. Sarah Snook said that the
Speaker 1: creator kind of said that the vibe of the episode
Speaker 1: was Who's afraid of Virginia Wolf? You know, this is
Speaker 1: having a party at their house and like hate each other.
Speaker 1: Good reference, and that really was.
Speaker 2: The vibe of it.
Speaker 5: Like there, I loved how they started the episode like flirty,
Speaker 5: but also like angry at each other when Tom gave
Speaker 5: Shiv the scorpion. But then they're still sending each other
Speaker 5: these texts where she was like, sorry if I broke
Speaker 5: your dick last night and then by the end of
Speaker 5: the episode, they finally have this knockdown, drag out brawl
Speaker 5: where they bring up basically all of the ship that
Speaker 5: they've been holding on through throughout the entire show, and
Speaker 5: especially everything that happened at the end of last season.
Speaker 2: I loved it.
Speaker 5: And I mean, Sarah snook emmy campaign is is.
Speaker 2: She's She's She's taking it.
Speaker 1: I mean, she is a character that has ascended on
Speaker 1: the power rankings for sure. I yeah, the shive Tom thing,
Speaker 1: now that I have heard this Who's afraid of Virginia
Speaker 1: Wolf kind of parallel like that, it makes perfect sense
Speaker 1: to me. You can see everything that has gone on
Speaker 1: said for the you know years that they've been kind
Speaker 1: of in a relationship together. Have you ever been in
Speaker 1: a relationship like that where like there was something going
Speaker 1: on in the relationship, like it was a bit of
Speaker 1: a situationship kind of and it was never spoken about
Speaker 1: until like some explosion moment.
Speaker 5: Never a romantic relationship. But I definitely have had close
Speaker 5: friendships where there have been things that we were both
Speaker 5: avoiding and they came out in some explosive moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I have definitely had at least one situationship
Speaker 1: like this where there was a somewhat verbal, somewhat nonverbal
Speaker 1: agreement that like we were just kind of let the
Speaker 1: relationship be the what it was, right, and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, all the things that you've been feeling
Speaker 1: come out.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: And when Tom when they were out on the patio
Speaker 1: and Tom was like, Tom was like, can we just
Speaker 1: have a real conversation? It was like it was such
Speaker 1: a like mind fuck because you're like, damn, like what
Speaker 1: have they what kind of conversations have they been having
Speaker 1: up into this point? And when Schiff says I don't
Speaker 1: care about you and I've never cared about you something
Speaker 1: that I don't know how you feel about that roast,
Speaker 1: But I, as of you personally think that's true based
Speaker 1: on everything we've seen in the three seasons, Like I
Speaker 1: think that Shiv might have a shred of care for
Speaker 1: Tom for the most part, he is an accessory or
Speaker 1: a pawn in everything she does. Like, I think that's
Speaker 1: totally true.
Speaker 2: I actually disagree.
Speaker 5: I think that was the only part in that fight
Speaker 5: where she was being dishonest, and I really believe that
Speaker 5: the reason that Tom was able to betray her so
Speaker 5: much when he sold the kids out to Logan at
Speaker 5: the end of season three, like proved to Shive for
Speaker 5: the first time that Tom was someone who.
Speaker 2: Could hurt her.
Speaker 5: And I almost think we've been seeing this season her
Speaker 5: finally opening up to him in a way she never
Speaker 5: had before, like even in last night's episode, I think
Speaker 5: a season or two ago. So she never would have
Speaker 5: let him in on what was going on with Madsen.
Speaker 5: She would have like kept it all very close to
Speaker 5: the chest, and in trying out their relationship for a
Speaker 5: second time, she to me it least seemed like she
Speaker 5: was opening up to him in a way she never
Speaker 5: had before and was really letting herself trust him and
Speaker 5: care about him because like realizing that she was fucking
Speaker 5: over her family and like Tom might be the only.
Speaker 2: Person in her corner.
Speaker 5: And after that happened, so yeah, I feel like she
Speaker 5: was lying in that moment and just trying to hurt
Speaker 5: him TBD.
Speaker 1: But like truth is a rather the thing that we
Speaker 1: both know is that Tom is about to fuck shit up,
Speaker 1: like you could when he was laying in bed in
Speaker 1: that final frame, like the mechanations going on, like he
Speaker 1: is one thousand percent about to make a big move
Speaker 1: and I'm very excited about that because he's so delightfully slippery, spineless, ethicless,
Speaker 1: like so good he is.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was listening to the Succession podcast this morning.
Speaker 2: Oh you listened to the Succession podcast?
Speaker 5: Yeah, so good, And Matthew, who plays Tom, was on
Speaker 5: it this week and he was saying that one of
Speaker 5: the ways he plays Tom is like Tom is basically
Speaker 5: a different character depending on who he's talking to, and
Speaker 5: he really like he has kind of no agenda other
Speaker 5: than survival and advancement and success, and so that I
Speaker 5: think is what makes him very dangerous, is like he's
Speaker 5: willing to do anything. And so now he came on
Speaker 5: this bitch mad as hell, like he's at his lowest,
Speaker 5: you know, because he this whole party, like everyone was
Speaker 5: talking about how he's going to get fired, and now
Speaker 5: he's lost Shiv, who was like his one tether into
Speaker 5: the family, So who knows what he'll do. The last
Speaker 5: time that he was in a similar position was when
Speaker 5: he betrayed Shiv and went to Team Logan. So yeah,
Speaker 5: he really could do anything. But I have kind of
Speaker 5: come around to.
Speaker 2: Be like a Tomshive girl and like.
Speaker 5: Their kind of end game for me and one thing
Speaker 5: I really loved is that she never, like, even when
Speaker 5: he said I don't think you'd be a good person
Speaker 5: to be a mother, I love that she didn't say, well,
Speaker 5: I'm carrying your baby. I think a lot of people
Speaker 5: expect that kind of revelation to come in that moment,
Speaker 5: and on a different TV show, that would have been
Speaker 5: the moment where Shiv said, well, I'm pregnant. But this
Speaker 5: is Succession and she's not gonna say that. And I
Speaker 5: wouldn't be surprised if that admission happened like off screen,
Speaker 5: or like in the very last episode in a sort
Speaker 5: of inconsequential way, or if she like miscarries or something like.
Speaker 5: That's not what Succession is about.
Speaker 2: So I don't know. I'm just like, there's only three
Speaker 2: episodes left.
Speaker 1: Can I confide something in you to you in this
Speaker 1: unsafe space?
Speaker 2: Yes, I have never been a shive girl.
Speaker 1: I've never like Want, I've never rooted for her as
Speaker 1: a character. I'm not quite sure why, and I've never
Speaker 1: necessarily rooted for Tom in past seasons. But this season
Speaker 1: I'm rooting for Tom, and I'm also rooting for Jerry.
Speaker 1: I'm definitely rooting for Roman, but I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: just like really curious to see who will end up,
Speaker 1: who will end up on top, or if they will
Speaker 1: all just get fucked over because of this thing, this
Speaker 1: India thing, which I think is also a plausibility where
Speaker 1: they just all end up fat, nasty and broke.
Speaker 5: You know who I'm rooting for and who is the
Speaker 5: best horse to bet on? Willa Roy. Willa to me
Speaker 5: was the MVP of this episode. She said, I'm not
Speaker 5: fucking going wherever you're sending me off to to be
Speaker 5: an ambassador's wife. I am Connor's wife now, and I'm
Speaker 5: telling my man, what's what?
Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm extremely caffeinated.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, like that truly, like the fact that they
Speaker 1: were like calling him asking him to withdraw h Like
Speaker 1: what was it like liaison to the UN, and like
Speaker 1: this has like international implications whatever, And that Willa is
Speaker 1: the person that actually made the call at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, something that has international implications, like sex
Speaker 1: workers be making.
Speaker 2: The calls sometimes, and I think that is dope.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't necessarily root for anyone. These are all
Speaker 5: bad people, you know, as this episode specifically pointed out,
Speaker 5: These are all people who like are back channeling shaping
Speaker 5: the future of our country and of politics, and like
Speaker 5: none of them really care about whatever it is they
Speaker 5: stand for. But if I had to root for anyone,
Speaker 5: it definitely would would be Willa.
Speaker 2: It would be Willa. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting to watch this become the most
Speaker 1: popular show on TV right now and to also know
Speaker 1: that it is in some ways a critique of capitalism
Speaker 1: and power.
Speaker 2: But like.
Speaker 1: All the kind of like eat the Rich media that's
Speaker 1: been coming out, whether it's like The Menu, which, to
Speaker 1: be honest thinking about it, didn't really love triangle sentence
Speaker 1: is great. I think it was a perfect balance. White Lotus,
Speaker 1: like all these other things following a kind of trend
Speaker 1: are doing so with a very ham fisted execution, right,
Speaker 1: Like they're really nitche like trying to nail down this
Speaker 1: eat the Rich idea, and Succession doesn't do that. Like
Speaker 1: it's subtle and it doesn't need to say what it
Speaker 1: needs to say explicitly in order to get it to
Speaker 1: message across.
Speaker 2: And it's not necessarily.
Speaker 1: Even telling you who's right and wrong, so to speak,
Speaker 1: because obviously they're all wrong. I just yeah, the complexity
Speaker 1: is like what we need. We don't need a message,
Speaker 1: We need complication, and that's what I.
Speaker 2: Love about the show absolutely.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Survival, as you said earlier, h M, I
Speaker 1: finally I had fallen off of not fallen off of
Speaker 1: Yellow Jackets, but I like quite a few episodes rack
Speaker 1: Up before I finally got caught up.
Speaker 2: Are you all caught up?
Speaker 5: I am all caught up. I've been in a similar
Speaker 5: scenar as you. I will say that I think mostly
Speaker 5: because of it being programmed on Friday nights, I just
Speaker 5: haven't been driven to watch it as consistently as I
Speaker 5: was in season one. Also, there's been it's had some
Speaker 5: weeks recently where it hasn't aired, so I was kind
Speaker 5: of confused about that. But this past week's episode was amazing,
Speaker 5: and I do think I didn't realize it until the
Speaker 5: very end of this week's episode when all of the
Speaker 5: women were together that I think that has been the
Speaker 5: problem for me with this season is that in the
Speaker 5: present day storyline, the women have all been off doing
Speaker 5: their own things, and last season I loved that they
Speaker 5: were all together, and I think that's why it's been
Speaker 5: a little slower for me. But this season, between when
Speaker 5: Shauna giving birth in the past and the women's storylines
Speaker 5: finally converging in the future.
Speaker 2: I'm all in. I'm ready to like ride this thing
Speaker 2: through till the end. The next episode's gonna be banger.
Speaker 1: I have been like thinking so hard about what will
Speaker 1: happen when future Shauna meets future Lottie, because, as we're
Speaker 1: seeing more and more, their past relationship in the Wilderness
Speaker 1: was so overwrought and it seems like they truly truly
Speaker 1: hate each other, or at the very least have a
Speaker 1: past that's like way more complicated than we've seen yet.
Speaker 1: But Melanie Lynsky delivering her monologue in the kind of
Speaker 1: interrogation room with the police.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I think it was like maybe my favorite Melanie Linsky
Speaker 1: performance since the series has started. Like it was like
Speaker 1: she was on It felt like something that as an
Speaker 1: actor she had really really worked on, Like it looked
Speaker 1: like it took so much work, and yet it felt
Speaker 1: completely natural, like there was no reason for her to
Speaker 1: confess what she confessed, but it happened because of what.
Speaker 2: Was happening with the character. It was just so good.
Speaker 5: Also, young Shauna played by Sophia Elise I thought was
Speaker 5: so incredible in this episode. You know, in the birthing
Speaker 5: scene and then her what turned out to be fantasies
Speaker 5: of her child surviving and then finding out the child
Speaker 5: had died.
Speaker 2: Just she was so good.
Speaker 5: Jasmine Savoy Brown is incredible also, like I mean, just
Speaker 5: really great acting across the board. Also, this was the
Speaker 5: first time that I kind of liked Shauna's.
Speaker 2: Daughter, Callie's like who I hate. But when she.
Speaker 5: Told me the detective that the that the other cop
Speaker 5: that she had sex with him, I was finally like, Okay,
Speaker 5: you were like living up to, you know, your mother,
Speaker 5: the example set by your mother in the worst way
Speaker 5: possible but also the best way.
Speaker 1: Poppas so smart. But also wait, so they didn't have
Speaker 1: sex though, correct?
Speaker 2: No, wow damn.
Speaker 5: But I think the thing that she said about his balls,
Speaker 5: Like I think he said something to her about his balls,
Speaker 5: so that's why.
Speaker 2: She knows that. Oh my god, I missed that. Okay, yeah, No.
Speaker 1: This was also the first time that I liked the daughter,
Speaker 1: and it was like a very and honestly you and
Speaker 1: I called it like when we were complaining about her,
Speaker 1: like in previous episodes, something that we both said is
Speaker 1: just like she needs to either get on Melanie Lensky's
Speaker 1: side and like help be an evil person or she needs.
Speaker 2: To die, like it's one or the other. And look
Speaker 2: here she is, she's showing up. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I saw someone on Twitter saying that they fast forward
Speaker 5: through all of the present day scenes and Yellow Jackets
Speaker 5: and was like, why are you watching this show?
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I would love to watch the show
Speaker 1: just with the wilderness scenes, Like, yes, I would watch
Speaker 1: that version of the show, but I I don't know
Speaker 1: how it would make sense if you're skipping all the
Speaker 1: other stuff, which I think enriches the story, you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, especially in this episode because Shanna her confession at
Speaker 5: the police station is so unearned if you're not seeing
Speaker 5: what happened when she was giving birth in the past
Speaker 5: and vice versa, like, it's not as devastating if you're
Speaker 5: not seeing how it ended up. So yeah, something that
Speaker 5: we're also seeing in the future montages is this further
Speaker 5: investigation of the supernatural elements of the show. And last
Speaker 5: time we talked about Yellowjackets, you had basically said that
Speaker 5: you're still not convinced that Lottie's magic or that there's
Speaker 5: kind of magic going on. But in this most recent episode,
Speaker 5: in the therapy scene with Lottie, we got like a
Speaker 5: lot more information about around what quote unquote it is
Speaker 5: and this kind of demon ghost that is purported to
Speaker 5: be inhabiting some of these girls and making their lives worse. Like,
Speaker 5: what's your thinking since we are, you know, a Byelo
Speaker 5: Jackets Conspiracy Theory podcast, what's some of your kind of
Speaker 5: thinking on that?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 5: Well, what I liked in that therapy session that Lottie
Speaker 5: has is she's saying she.
Speaker 2: Kind of needed.
Speaker 5: It to be part of her delusion because then it
Speaker 5: wasn't real, and now she is questioning whether she like
Speaker 5: actually is crazy and maybe it was real. It really
Speaker 5: has kind of solidified for me this season that I
Speaker 5: really don't want there to be something supernatural going on.
Speaker 5: I think it's much more interesting if it's all just
Speaker 5: reality and this is about these people who a really
Speaker 5: fucked up thing happened to and they're just dealing with
Speaker 5: a lot of trauma.
Speaker 2: They're all fucked up. I think.
Speaker 5: The show really wants to have it both ways a
Speaker 5: little and wants to keep us guessing, and I don't
Speaker 5: think they can do that forever. Yeah, at some point
Speaker 5: they're going to have to commit either way, And like
Speaker 5: I think I will be slightly disappointed if there's a
Speaker 5: supernatural thing going on, but at least I'll like be
Speaker 5: happy to know, rather than them trying to keep us guessing.
Speaker 5: I don't think that's sustainable. Yeah, what do you think?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I kind of agree with that. It does mix up
Speaker 1: the genre quite a bit. I mean, supernatural stuff has
Speaker 1: kind of been here since season one, but it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily the show I wanted to see, the show you
Speaker 1: wanted to see. But I'm appreciative of how it's like
Speaker 1: coming down, like it's moving the action forward, and I
Speaker 1: don't mind that. Are you watching the other two? Because
Speaker 1: there's a kind of a tonal disstonance. I was catching
Speaker 1: up on the other two, which just released new episodes.
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of virgins watch this like now
Speaker 1: on HBO show that used to be on Comedy Central.
Speaker 1: Show about a gay guy and a sister who has
Speaker 1: a brother, a Justin Bieber esque brother that blows up
Speaker 1: in popularity. The show's very funny, but I'm frustrated now
Speaker 1: because the show wants to be a pie in the
Speaker 1: sky absurdist comedy, like the most absolutely deranged things that
Speaker 1: would never happen in real life. Happening in the show,
Speaker 1: which I love very like broad City esque, but also
Speaker 1: it's now and it's third season, really writing emotional realism,
Speaker 1: like it wants to have serious conversations and like emotional
Speaker 1: like you know, diatribes about like what these characters going through.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I was like, I can take
Speaker 1: a comedy with heart, but not this, like all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, it's trying.
Speaker 2: To be a drama, like truly a drama.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, dramedies have been so in vogue in the
Speaker 5: past years, and like I've never watched the other two,
Speaker 5: so I can't really speak to that, but I do
Speaker 5: think to introduce that element season in h is off putting.
Speaker 5: If that's if that's the kind of show you're going
Speaker 5: to be, that's the kind of show you're going to be.
Speaker 5: But I think it kind of has to be in
Speaker 5: the DNA of your show from the beginning. Well, I
Speaker 5: just wanted to get that off my chest, because I did.
Speaker 5: I did watch it this week. Thank you for getting
Speaker 5: off your breasts and dress. I think since we're talking,
Speaker 5: we've been talking about TV, we should say that we
Speaker 5: stand in solidarity with the writer's Gil absolutely and WGA
Speaker 5: strong even though.
Speaker 2: Neither of us are in it.
Speaker 1: Not neither of us are in it, but we did
Speaker 1: post an amazing Nicole Kiinman meme on the feed in
Speaker 1: solidarity with the writers strikes.
Speaker 5: Yes, give those girlies what they would deserve. Well, we
Speaker 5: have a very exciting guest today, Tommy Dorfman, who is
Speaker 5: an actress, IT girl director soon to be, so she
Speaker 5: is here to talk about Spring Awakening, which, if you
Speaker 5: aren't familiar, is a musical based on a German play
Speaker 5: of the same name that's all about teens in the
Speaker 5: old he Haw Germany discovering their sexuality, my sexuality, as
Speaker 5: Jenna Moroni would say. It was famously on Broadway, originated
Speaker 5: by the likes of Liam Michelle and Jonathan Groff. I
Speaker 5: saw it many times in its original run, and both
Speaker 5: of us are very familiar with the soundtrack. We also
Speaker 5: went on a couple of tangents about things like friends
Speaker 5: and I don't know, some other stuff. It's been a
Speaker 5: while since we recorded the episode, but Alexa play Mama
Speaker 5: who Bore Me by Liam Michelle. Now she's actually doing it,
Speaker 5: Alexa stop.
Speaker 4: There was like a brief overlap of Spring Awakening musical.
Speaker 3: The bunke Ching musical og Lea Michelle Broadway cast and
Speaker 3: I think Friends still being maybe on air.
Speaker 5: Because what year did Friends? I think it ended when
Speaker 5: I was still in high school. And I saw the
Speaker 5: original run of Spring Awakening off Broadway this summer before
Speaker 5: I went to college.
Speaker 2: So summer of two thousand and six. Wow. Original Yeah,
Speaker 2: Lea Michelle sat next to me on stage.
Speaker 1: Oh, because that was the station where like folks were
Speaker 1: on stage.
Speaker 2: I mean they did that on Broadway too, but it
Speaker 2: was a little more intimate.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think at which theater the Atlantic? Oh slive
Speaker 4: off Broadway work.
Speaker 3: No, the first time I saw Spring Working was on
Speaker 3: tour at the Fox Theater in Atlanta, Georgia in high school.
Speaker 2: And were you a musical theater? I was gurly, of course, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that tracks. And how old were you?
Speaker 4: I think I was a sophomore.
Speaker 2: How old were you rose?
Speaker 5: It was the summer before I went to college. My
Speaker 5: friends and I all went on a trip together to
Speaker 5: New York City the summer before we went to college,
Speaker 5: and I was going to college in New York, so
Speaker 5: it was more like a preview for me, and we
Speaker 5: saw Spring Awakening. So one of us had heard about it.
Speaker 5: It was kind of getting buzzy, and we saw it
Speaker 5: off Broadway and I was gagged. I was like, this
Speaker 5: is this is it? Because up until up until then,
Speaker 5: I had only seen kind of the big musicals, right,
Speaker 5: and this was I didn't know that a musical could.
Speaker 2: Be like this.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, I feel that way too, although I had seen
Speaker 3: a touring production of Rent, which I guess was like.
Speaker 2: In a lot of ways.
Speaker 3: But I think, like for Spring Awakening, I came at
Speaker 3: it having drowned myself in the soundtrack. So I remember
Speaker 3: going to see it and knowing every single like word harmony.
Speaker 3: We sang song of Purple Summer. At high school graduation
Speaker 3: a couple of years later, we would do these musical
Speaker 3: reviews that were student directed, and.
Speaker 2: Everybody picked Spring Awakening.
Speaker 3: Well, we would we would do like songs from different
Speaker 3: musicals and then like weave them together in some very
Speaker 3: unfashionable way.
Speaker 5: It's actually so good that Spring Awakening didn't come out
Speaker 5: until after I was out of high school. Otherwise I
Speaker 5: would have been insufferable. Every theater competition would have been
Speaker 5: a bitch of living. As I'm sure it was.
Speaker 3: After I graduated, I still would sorry, like in college
Speaker 3: sing some Spring Awakening.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Spring Awakening I think is like responsible for a generation
Speaker 1: of insufferable adolescence for sure, I certainly.
Speaker 2: I feel like so I saw it in high school
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: I had one of my friends in my like group
Speaker 1: was like very wealthy and took like her whole friend
Speaker 1: group to see Spring Awakening for her birthday.
Speaker 2: Wow, And I was.
Speaker 5: Like, yeah, flu they got flued out.
Speaker 1: No, actually it was it was the traveling. It was
Speaker 1: the traveling. It was the touring production.
Speaker 4: It was the traveling circus.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it was in Chicago, So yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: I remember just being like fully, I mean, we all
Speaker 1: were listening to the soundtrack just as you were, like,
Speaker 1: all the way like up to the performance.
Speaker 2: So by the time we were there were like screaming.
Speaker 5: Okay, So of the three of us, I'm the only
Speaker 5: one who seen Jonathan Groff spit on Leah.
Speaker 4: Michelle in person, did you guys?
Speaker 5: Context, So why why did Spring Wakening sort of you know,
Speaker 5: catch your imagination?
Speaker 3: I think the sheer fagotry of it and being like
Speaker 3: a self harm teenage drug addict, like all of those
Speaker 3: things wrapped up in a little black silk dystopian.
Speaker 4: Bow for me.
Speaker 3: I also my entry point into it was like a
Speaker 3: boy I had a crush on who was a couple
Speaker 3: of years older than me, was going to Northwestern and
Speaker 3: he was like, do you know this musical?
Speaker 2: And you were like, yeah, of course I know. Yeah
Speaker 2: I would.
Speaker 3: I still to this day will say if I don't
Speaker 3: know something, but I will learn it. Yeah, I will
Speaker 3: learn it expediently. At the time for Dick, yeah white
Speaker 3: lie occasion.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't lie.
Speaker 3: I said I didn't know it, but then I learned
Speaker 3: it immediately, and I was like, yes, okay, I'm on this.
Speaker 4: I'm on the same page as you.
Speaker 3: He was named after a vegetable I won't say which one,
Speaker 3: which I always thought was weird rude beiga, but before
Speaker 3: the vegetable became really popular rise.
Speaker 2: Tail, so Russell sprouts.
Speaker 4: I know. I think I think all of those things.
Speaker 3: I think, like any musical opening with like boobies was
Speaker 3: so exciting to be as a kid, and just the
Speaker 3: sexualization of that particular story and just the feeling. I
Speaker 3: think I can't imagine a queer person of our generation
Speaker 3: who wouldn't have been obsessed with Spring Awakening in some capacity.
Speaker 2: You're very right.
Speaker 5: And also I think is this litmus test within musical
Speaker 5: theater of like are you a cool musical theater nerd
Speaker 5: or are you a nerd musical theater right, because it
Speaker 5: made like uncool theater kids feel like we had rock stars. True.
Speaker 4: Yeah, were you a theater kid? Girl? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I was. We are.
Speaker 1: Our high school was, like, I had a very robust
Speaker 1: theater program. We did twelve shows a year, so many,
Speaker 1: way too many.
Speaker 2: And that is like the school year summer stock we.
Speaker 3: Did too, It was we did too. We did we
Speaker 3: did to main stage production. Yeah, like no, we just
Speaker 3: had one main stage.
Speaker 4: But I went to a really small school.
Speaker 1: I went to a big public school and we had
Speaker 1: a big theater program. And so I you know, became
Speaker 1: a workaholic at a high school age and was working
Speaker 1: on multiple productions at a time during my school year,
Speaker 1: like whether that was like assistant directing or like stage
Speaker 1: managing or being a part of the crew or whatever.
Speaker 1: Doing social yeah, doing doing yeah, so doing social media management,
Speaker 1: spring and waginning. I think it's just like there's something
Speaker 1: about it that I like, I was listening to it
Speaker 1: again this morning. I hadn't listened to it in Ages,
Speaker 1: and I was like, it just is it perfectly encapsulates
Speaker 1: all this angst that we wanted to channel when we
Speaker 1: were like fifteen sixteen, I know, like the characters I
Speaker 1: think are like fourteen in the original play. Leah Michelle
Speaker 1: was fourteen when she started workshopping this. Yeah, which is
Speaker 1: Kuckoo Bananas.
Speaker 2: She's too young, Yeah, very young, but.
Speaker 4: She was very, very perfect.
Speaker 1: And I think Leah and Jonathan Groff were like two
Speaker 1: of the most prevalent voices of that generation of Broadway
Speaker 1: and so but.
Speaker 3: Also like perfectly streamlined into the Glee obsession of my
Speaker 3: high school.
Speaker 2: Oh you're a gleek. I was a gleek.
Speaker 3: Of course I was a gleek. Of course I was
Speaker 3: a gleek. And I think just the shared history and
Speaker 3: admiration of both of those things, and like knowing where
Speaker 3: Leah Michelle came from.
Speaker 4: Was sort of like a cool card to play, right.
Speaker 3: Watching that audition over and over and over again where
Speaker 3: she like slaps the producer of Glee in the face
Speaker 3: when she's auditioning for Rachel Barry.
Speaker 4: Have you seen this? No, please watch this later, Please
Speaker 4: somebody describe it.
Speaker 3: Okay, Leah Michelle is doing on my own, Okay, this
Speaker 3: is a song. And then she's doing a scene with
Speaker 3: what I think would have been like, yeah, the late
Speaker 3: great Coreymntee's character, but she it's like a chemistry. Read
Speaker 3: the story goes that on her way to this like
Speaker 3: final audition for Glee, she got into a car accident
Speaker 3: and there was a glass still in her hair and
Speaker 3: like in her body and face when she showed up,
Speaker 3: didn't tell anybody, and then like away through the scene.
Speaker 3: In the scene, she slaps Corey in the face and
Speaker 3: she walks past camera and you just hear her go
Speaker 3: to whoever's reading with her, and the whole room like
Speaker 3: erupted in laughter. And then she she iconically is like
Speaker 3: that wasn't supposed to be funny, funny, but it was
Speaker 3: very Rachel, Barry, Lea, Michelle merging together as one. I
Speaker 3: also think it's really crazy that like she ever had
Speaker 3: to audition for this. I understand it, I guess, but
Speaker 3: it felt so clear to me that like Ryan Murphy
Speaker 3: had written this part for her, and like has always
Speaker 3: been inspired by Broadway and like finding ways to bring
Speaker 3: the theater into like film and television.
Speaker 2: For better or worse.
Speaker 4: And I also remember.
Speaker 3: That pilot just being like one of the best still
Speaker 3: I think, like one of the best TV pilots.
Speaker 2: Of all time. It's an incredible I used to have.
Speaker 4: It was supposed to not be a network show.
Speaker 3: I think it was like an FX show originally or something,
Speaker 3: so it was cable and it was supposed to be
Speaker 3: much darker.
Speaker 5: I would have liked the darker version because I think
Speaker 5: I think that's what that's what hooked me right at
Speaker 5: the beginning. It was a very different show than what
Speaker 5: it eventually became, and I really liked that first season
Speaker 5: and then when it started being about like bullying and
Speaker 5: then I.
Speaker 3: School shooting by oh my god, I forgot about that
Speaker 3: school shooting.
Speaker 1: Yes in the Glee and season two or three. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that was the same thing with Pose too. It's
Speaker 1: like when Ryan got the script, the pilot that Steve
Speaker 1: had written was like dark and angsty and like did
Speaker 1: not leave a lot of hope. And I think that
Speaker 1: like Ryan is really like attracted to that like dichotomy
Speaker 1: of something that's like dark and angsty but like still
Speaker 1: has this like campy levity to it. And so that's
Speaker 1: why I pose is you know, they they rewrote it
Speaker 1: obviously over and over again, as you do with every pilot.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I feel like, so I don't know what
Speaker 1: you know. If you know this about me, tell me.
Speaker 1: But I grew up super religious. I was like in
Speaker 1: a super duper sheltered like family. Every one of the ever,
Speaker 1: all the virgins at home are like, yes, yes, we
Speaker 1: know Fran, like they've heard the story over and over again.
Speaker 1: But like that what there was not a more perfect
Speaker 1: musical to like comment too my periphery at the time
Speaker 1: in my life where I was like, oh, I don't
Speaker 1: think I believe in God anymore.
Speaker 2: And that's literally exactly like I was probably like sixteen.
Speaker 4: So so to sum it up spring awakening major an atheists, you.
Speaker 2: Know, I had read I had to read God is
Speaker 2: totally fucked.
Speaker 1: I was on the cusp of atheism at the time.
Speaker 1: I think I still kind of had a light belief
Speaker 1: in God that was like wavering. And at the time
Speaker 1: I was also experiencing high school relationship, like a cooi
Speaker 1: relationship with a boy in my school, and it was
Speaker 1: so everything about it felt hidden. It felt like something
Speaker 1: that you know, was at odds with you know, my family,
Speaker 1: with my belief systems and like this show like really
Speaker 1: encapsulated everything that I was feeling, even though it's like
Speaker 1: obviously it's so stupid to think about like high schoolers
Speaker 1: trying to relate to something that's like so extreme and
Speaker 1: so dark, but it is kind of like Skins or
Speaker 1: you know, like all these it.
Speaker 3: Is the teenage experience like totally, and there's also something
Speaker 3: really like private about it because it was like we
Speaker 3: had iPods or a version of we had like MB
Speaker 3: three priors with most kids that like of our generation
Speaker 3: had some access to a laptop or like a computer
Speaker 3: with some private time, and I remember like it felt
Speaker 3: like a shared secret or something like it wasn't supposed
Speaker 3: to necessarily. I mean I grew very differently in a
Speaker 3: household that was like incredibly I.
Speaker 4: Would say, like like two funerals. So I remember when
Speaker 4: I went to see it.
Speaker 3: I remember like getting drunk like with my friends, and
Speaker 3: I think like my mom before seeing it or something like,
Speaker 3: and I remember being like very very very tipsy in
Speaker 3: the theater like in high school, but still like this
Speaker 3: auditory exclusively like auditory experience of like having this music
Speaker 3: to like lean back on and rely on and like
Speaker 3: walk to school with or whatever felt really intimate.
Speaker 2: Favorite song totally.
Speaker 1: It was totally fucked for me, just because like just
Speaker 1: like the everything that was like repressed about me, like
Speaker 1: got let out in that song, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like we were We've talked before about like when during
Speaker 1: the Panic of the disco era, where like you know,
Speaker 1: we as high school high schoolers, us as like teenagers,
Speaker 1: we were like waiting for the moment to say like harror,
Speaker 1: you know, just scream hohorror along with the song. And
Speaker 1: with this it was like, of course we're all like waiting, waiting,
Speaker 1: waiting to say totally fucked, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like because.
Speaker 2: We got to getting away with something bad.
Speaker 1: Yes, we got to scream along to a song where
Speaker 1: like fuck was in the chorus and that was like.
Speaker 2: That was crazy. That was crazy to me. I could
Speaker 2: not fathom it, And yeah, it was. It was really liberating.
Speaker 2: My favorite is the Dark I know.
Speaker 5: Well, of course as a you know, traumatized little pre
Speaker 5: girl really latched onto that. What about you, Tommy, she's
Speaker 5: scanning the track player, you know, I think it has
Speaker 5: to be Don't Do Sadness, Slash Blue Wind so good.
Speaker 2: Oh that girl with the braids.
Speaker 1: Remind me that song again. What's like the kind of
Speaker 1: emotional cooks of that of that song.
Speaker 2: It's the one where Moritz Moritz.
Speaker 3: Is singing basically like before death he himself, before he
Speaker 3: unlives himself and runs into that weld. Wendla runs into
Speaker 3: when La and she's like, come play with me, and
Speaker 3: he's like, I got business.
Speaker 1: He's like, I got business to a tint too. The
Speaker 1: names in this musical, I mean, it's amazing. Something that
Speaker 1: must be said is that because this show was like
Speaker 1: adapted from like a German stage play in the late
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, they all have crazy archaic names like they have.
Speaker 1: They're all named like melchi Or and Moritz, and like
Speaker 1: I'm just like, what are these kids names?
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 5: We should we should bring back trans little baby Trance
Speaker 5: is out there when you're picking those chosen names.
Speaker 2: Yeah, go back to the old tech. Yeah, awesome, Tommy
Speaker 2: Lease whole auto.
Speaker 5: You you saying unlive yourselves is just making me think
Speaker 5: of like this. I know that's like TikTok speak because
Speaker 5: it's like, you know, people have started talking that way
Speaker 5: because they don't want to get like their you know content,
Speaker 5: you know, Shadow Band by the body.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is.
Speaker 5: Like I do feel like the the the prudification of
Speaker 5: gen z is like indirect opposition to what we were growing.
Speaker 3: When we would just like the word and everybody like
Speaker 3: watch Pretty Awakening and like didn't have We weren't worried
Speaker 3: about that type of censorship because we didn't have like well,
Speaker 3: we had photos that were posted like by the dozen,
Speaker 3: for me at least on Facebook, Like I still have
Speaker 3: my Facebook history from before I deleted my Facebook. I
Speaker 3: like downloaded it, and it's like it's crazy to me
Speaker 3: because I would post like hundreds of photos at a time,
Speaker 3: but uh, they were all super inappropriate though to your point,
Speaker 3: Like it was like I had like two cigarettes in
Speaker 3: my mouth and like it was like like biting on
Speaker 3: someone's Tit like.
Speaker 4: Like like as you should have been like high school
Speaker 4: party chaos.
Speaker 3: And we didn't have the sort of globalization of social media.
Speaker 3: We had like the intimacy of it between friends and
Speaker 3: friends of friends and it was very like am I
Speaker 3: going to accept your friend request or not? It hadn't
Speaker 3: there was no this idea of like followers didn't exist,
Speaker 3: like this idea of uh sort of gratification via likes comments,
Speaker 3: et cetera wasn't at all developed in the way that
Speaker 3: it is now, and I don't think like Instagram didn't
Speaker 3: come into my life until college.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm I'm grateful that we.
Speaker 3: Didn't have that sort of purification if as you phrased
Speaker 3: it so beautifully like when I'm on TikTok, I do
Speaker 3: feel for some of the ways in which like these
Speaker 3: kids have had to create as a militial to I've
Speaker 3: like picked it up this unlived but I do think
Speaker 3: I think because I went through so much like pr
Speaker 3: training around thirteen reasons why and like how to talk
Speaker 3: about suicide and alive actually just feels like a a
Speaker 3: cleaner way of saying died by suicide to me or like,
Speaker 3: and I understand the sort of protocols have at all.
Speaker 3: But I ultimately, yeah, I definitely have picked up some
Speaker 3: like stupid jargon.
Speaker 2: I mean, we all have, it's ingrained in us now.
Speaker 2: I don't think hold, I don't think it's stupid.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's like a euphemism to to not
Speaker 1: glamor and also like reframe the ways that you know,
Speaker 1: we think about suicide, and it's like I think it's
Speaker 1: better than just like not talking about it at all
Speaker 1: because we're all kids.
Speaker 2: Thinking about this stuff.
Speaker 1: And and unfortunately, like musicals and other cultural objects like
Speaker 1: Spring Awakening, we're glamorizing it for a lack of a
Speaker 1: better way of putting it, like maybe not glamorizing, but
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 5: There's any but there's a romanticism to it in certain
Speaker 5: theater in movies.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I watched Romeo.
Speaker 5: Plus Juliet and watched Leo and Claire kill themselves, and
Speaker 5: I was like, I want to do it too, and saying.
Speaker 2: I've tried Tommy like a Romeo plus Juliet. Wait, you
Speaker 2: said Romeo plus Julia bad, Well you haven't got me. Yes,
Speaker 2: you're I'm rubbing up.
Speaker 4: That is the poster.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you watch that? Were you a fig of
Speaker 2: course as Learmon?
Speaker 4: Of course I was and am.
Speaker 3: Of course I had boyfriends that I would like scream onwards.
Speaker 4: The musical movie.
Speaker 3: Songs with like speeding down Peachtree Street in Atlanta where
Speaker 3: I grew up actually referenced stills from Romeo plus Juliet.
Speaker 3: And for my movie, my first movie that I just
Speaker 3: finished making, and there's like that the scene with all
Speaker 3: the candle light like the sex can't.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 3: I was like, that's there's some of the most beautiful
Speaker 3: imagery in that film, in particular, like the fish tang, the.
Speaker 2: Mish tang, like come on piercing you.
Speaker 4: Bas Lehman's a trans icon.
Speaker 2: I don't know why, but I don't think a little
Speaker 2: bit like it away.
Speaker 5: Elvis is kind of as a little trans mass Marcutio.
Speaker 5: I would say Leo is trans mass obviously literally obviously
Speaker 5: RuPaul brought you know, not trans at all.
Speaker 3: Sorry drag queens to mainstream media. But I would say
Speaker 3: bas Learmon was maybe doing it first, yeah, like actors,
Speaker 3: And I was like thinking, I love when actors do drag,
Speaker 3: like really beautiful character work that also is like cinematic
Speaker 3: drag like Housi Gucci.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure it's all beautiful character work.
Speaker 3: What I will say is like everyone in that movie,
Speaker 3: except for Adam Driver, is a drag quean.
Speaker 4: And the best way possible can.
Speaker 5: We all do a father son house of Gucci one, two, three, five.
Speaker 2: Gucci? We all did that forehead shoulder shoulder.
Speaker 5: At you actually give us two topics for today, and
Speaker 5: I think we should discuss.
Speaker 2: Okay, so we've done a second one I.
Speaker 4: Did all my album.
Speaker 2: We'll vacillate between the two.
Speaker 5: And now we're going to talk about friends, my personal
Speaker 5: arch nemesis, and I want to give that some context
Speaker 5: to that by talking about why so my brother and
Speaker 5: his wife, who are like the straightest straight people who
Speaker 5: have ever lived, love friends, Like they just watch friends
Speaker 5: all the time, and in fact, at their wedding both
Speaker 5: of them mentioned friends in.
Speaker 2: Their vows, and that is sis culture.
Speaker 5: My sister in law, sister who was the maid of honor,
Speaker 5: in her speech at the reception, you know how every
Speaker 5: friend's episode is like the one where something something, So
Speaker 5: her speech was split up into sections and they were
Speaker 5: things like the one where my sister. No, it's like
Speaker 5: the one where my sister met the man of her dreams.
Speaker 2: Oh no, we will let me love that.
Speaker 1: That's so, that's like if that you can love.
Speaker 2: I'm a hater.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm a hater with you. Honestly, that's really cheesy.
Speaker 3: Sorry you heard it here? Why not first?
Speaker 2: I'm sure, but when you said friends, I like my
Speaker 2: jaw dropped. Tommy.
Speaker 1: I was like yes, yes and yes and yes, Like
Speaker 1: that is so perfect. It's something that has it's kind
Speaker 1: of bizarre now that when you go to hot topic,
Speaker 1: it's not like you know, Timburton paraphernalia. It's like T
Speaker 1: shirts with the Friends.
Speaker 2: Central Perk like logo T shirt.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it has this like nostalgic quality that has
Speaker 1: been re enlivened by gen Z but like as omnipotent
Speaker 1: in our generation, you know, like that's really interesting.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: Also, they did the Central Park thing in the city
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, and it was on the
Speaker 3: street that I was living on with Kaya, and it
Speaker 3: was like we would leave and it would just be
Speaker 3: like chaos Central Perk all the time. But I always,
Speaker 3: like very very much wanted to experience that, but I couldn't.
Speaker 3: I couldn't fathom doing it in those circumstances. Just felt
Speaker 3: like very stressful. And I also feel like again Friends
Speaker 3: for me was a communal thing, but it was also
Speaker 3: it's still a very like private and personal thing because
Speaker 3: for many many many years instill to this day, it's
Speaker 3: like what I put.
Speaker 4: On to help me fall asleep.
Speaker 3: If I can't say it's your comfort show, it's so comfortable,
Speaker 3: I know it's so.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: And then also because it's sort of like I was
Speaker 3: talking to someone who was in the original class of Hamilton,
Speaker 3: and I was like, how is it You're on your
Speaker 3: like thirtieth year and he was like, I literally forgot
Speaker 3: my lines the other night, Like this was a couple
Speaker 3: of years ago, when he was still doing the show.
Speaker 3: He was like, I've been doing this for so long
Speaker 3: that I forgot the show. Like in a way like
Speaker 3: it's been It's like I've gone through so many phases
Speaker 3: of like and to me with Friends, it's like I
Speaker 3: know that show like the back of my hand, and
Speaker 3: yet like I also would struggle to like bring up
Speaker 3: every single detail of it because I've watched it so.
Speaker 4: Many times in and out of niousness, like bec.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a trans character on the trans character, let's
Speaker 3: Chandler's dad, Tadler's Daddler's or if Chandler's dad's anything like
Speaker 3: Caitlyn Jenner and Chandler's dad.
Speaker 2: The one on My Friends is like Coco Melon for adults.
Speaker 5: What is Coco Cocomelan is like one of those shows
Speaker 5: that they put on for kids that.
Speaker 3: Oh, my niece the other night and was like it
Speaker 3: was three am. Crawled in the bed with me in Colorado,
Speaker 3: was with my family obviously, and she woke me up
Speaker 3: and she's like, I can't sleep.
Speaker 4: She's like four, She's like, I can't sleep. Can we
Speaker 4: watch Blue?
Speaker 3: And I didn't know what Blue he was, but Blue
Speaker 3: sounds like one of those shows too. It's like the
Speaker 3: show like the kids watch. It's these like micro eight
Speaker 3: minute episodes.
Speaker 2: It's for them to associate too. It's like it's like
Speaker 2: Visual Academy's.
Speaker 5: Okay, can you remind me of the storyline around Chandler's
Speaker 5: was like a.
Speaker 3: Parent I really wanted to it was a performer who
Speaker 3: then ultimately I think, did transition, like was a drag
Speaker 3: queen turn transfeme maybe like in Vegas.
Speaker 4: I just remember them going to that show at some point.
Speaker 2: Played by assist woman.
Speaker 4: No no, no, no, play by assist man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: It was the nineties after all.
Speaker 1: I think because it was the nineties, there was there's
Speaker 1: lack of clarity in the obviously and how it's written
Speaker 1: and how they were probably thinking about the character about
Speaker 1: about Chandler's quote unquote mom, Dad's like gender because like
Speaker 1: you know, in theory, like Chandler's quote unquote dad could
Speaker 1: be a cross dresser and not a trans person. Totally
Speaker 1: trans Yeah, that's kind of the way they frame it.
Speaker 1: But also like we we have no way of knowing
Speaker 1: right how good we know?
Speaker 2: Some things are better left on said that's true, which
Speaker 2: which friend would you say that you are?
Speaker 4: M question? Would say, because I'm Baby, I'm Rachel.
Speaker 2: You are Rachel. I don't think there's any other answer.
Speaker 3: I know, I think like I'm definitely not Ross. I'm
Speaker 3: definitely not Chandler. I have Monica tendencies at home around
Speaker 3: like doing the dishes, for example, and like the cleanliness
Speaker 3: of things at times. But I would say overall, I
Speaker 3: have the like very I have at my core, I'm
Speaker 3: a Rachel.
Speaker 5: Okay, who do you think we are? Because I don't.
Speaker 5: I'm not like well versed. I know, I think, Okay,
Speaker 5: who are you are here?
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm Monica Crystal Clear. I'm Monica. Unfortunately I wish
Speaker 1: I wasn't. But I've done a lot of searching and
Speaker 1: it was like Monica or like Ross, I might be Chandler.
Speaker 4: You actually are Chandler of Chandler.
Speaker 3: I actually think you are Chandler, Like if you had
Speaker 3: that kind of nine to five, because it like you
Speaker 3: would I have. Yeah, and you come in with the
Speaker 3: singers and singer. Yeah, I think like you're my dad's.
Speaker 4: If I can really, I don't know version if I
Speaker 4: think about my introduction.
Speaker 3: To yours was like Twitter and like you're really and
Speaker 3: you're an incredible tweeter and that Chandler would have a.
Speaker 2: Fire fire.
Speaker 4: Could I Could I be any more? Trip?
Speaker 2: Could I be anymore? So? I don't know, I'd be
Speaker 2: like Chandler.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like was just this like really there was something
Speaker 1: really dark about him because he was so out of
Speaker 1: step with his like own emotions and that was something
Speaker 1: he was constantly like coming up against. It's like he
Speaker 1: used comedy to deflect and.
Speaker 5: He was a smoker and he was the last time
Speaker 5: you could smoke in a sitcom.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean in many ways, that show like solidified my
Speaker 3: knee to move to New York or a version of
Speaker 3: New York like.
Speaker 2: That with the LA version of New York.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I didn't know any better.
Speaker 3: Like that with the Sex and the City sort of
Speaker 3: like came together and made me feel lots of feelings
Speaker 3: about the city in particular growing up in Georgia. But God,
Speaker 3: it's like I'm trying, I'm struggling to think who my
Speaker 3: Phoebe is in my life.
Speaker 4: I was thinking about that.
Speaker 1: Everyone has like a Phoebe, this kind of like person
Speaker 1: that pops in and out and does completely random things.
Speaker 2: They're like spacey friend who is.
Speaker 3: Tons of past lives, a many vibes, many past lives,
Speaker 3: has somehow like survived everything.
Speaker 2: As an evil twin for some reason.
Speaker 5: Has named I remind my remembering all this friend stuff
Speaker 5: because I all know friends against It was always this
Speaker 5: is the thing with friends. It's because like I grew
Speaker 5: up in the nineties, it was always on in the background.
Speaker 5: I never actively watched it because I was never into it.
Speaker 5: I was a Will and Grace girl.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I like Dwell and Grace a lot.
Speaker 2: I was not a Seinfeld girl.
Speaker 4: I was not a Seinfeld girl either, But for.
Speaker 5: Friends was always around. I watched a lot of it,
Speaker 5: but it was never my thing. I'm just dipping if
Speaker 5: you can hear that. It's just my bag and I'm
Speaker 5: grabbing some glass game.
Speaker 2: Can you do some as Mr Ring for the Virgin.
Speaker 4: Bomb dot com Swiss miss bomb dot com.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry, Swiss Miss Flavor. I'm judging you. You
Speaker 2: like this out of every flavor you picked, Swiss miss.
Speaker 3: To be fair, they've gifted me all of them. So
Speaker 3: it's just a matter of like what's in what bag?
Speaker 3: Got not to be Rachel about.
Speaker 2: It, but you are Rachel, and eventually you will get
Speaker 2: the Rachel haircut at some point.
Speaker 3: Naturally I will have to, especially when I have like
Speaker 3: kids or something. I think also like I was a
Speaker 3: retail girly. I was a fashion girly. Like still am
Speaker 3: a sort of fashion file in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3: But before acting and working in entertainment, I was working
Speaker 3: in retail.
Speaker 5: And what was her job? She worked at Rolph Lauren. Yeah,
Speaker 5: she was like a buyer. How did she get there?
Speaker 5: From the show when the show started?
Speaker 2: When the show.
Speaker 3: Started, saying, so there's like a certain amount of like
Speaker 3: jenness a Quah and privilege and looking like Jennifer Anistander.
Speaker 2: Certain amount of Elgebuqua and.
Speaker 3: Also like the delusions of her, like the ability to
Speaker 3: just be like.
Speaker 5: El if you have that haircut, you can and you
Speaker 5: can kind of make shit happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think like, if you look good in clothes,
Speaker 3: you can work in fashion.
Speaker 4: Actually, Like that's literally like so you.
Speaker 3: Know, and I don't think I think for her, she
Speaker 3: she as I think.
Speaker 4: She was like as a shop beer, I know what
Speaker 4: people want to buy.
Speaker 3: I'm sure that's what she said in her interview and
Speaker 3: the guy was just drooling over her. Do you remember
Speaker 3: when Chandler was briefly dating Rachel's boss and then got
Speaker 3: like locked in her office like naked with handcuffs on,
Speaker 3: like a like a sexy lunch date. Oh yea, because
Speaker 3: the boss was like it was like a kinky, perpetually
Speaker 3: single like girl boss in her like late forties.
Speaker 2: I forgot about that, honestly.
Speaker 1: I feel like that all of the episodes kind of
Speaker 1: like meshed together in your head and you're like, what happened?
Speaker 2: That was the one where the that was season six
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 5: I love I love Chandla Ross Handler.
Speaker 1: Ever present a question in the culture as a Rachel
Speaker 1: do you think that Rachel, you know, was meant to
Speaker 1: be with Ross? Do you think that when she got
Speaker 1: with Joey was totally like wedged in Like a lot
Speaker 1: of people feel like when she got with Joey it
Speaker 1: made no sense.
Speaker 2: But do you think that who who is Rachel's sole me?
Speaker 4: I think getting with I think Ross is Rachel sow
Speaker 4: me for better or worse? For her her cell mat
Speaker 4: for her sell Ma.
Speaker 3: I think Joey makes a lot of sense because in
Speaker 3: so many ways he's the opposite. He plays the opposite
Speaker 3: of Ross, right, and like that's why they work in
Speaker 3: a room, and that's why their humor works, because Ross
Speaker 3: is like hyper intellectual and intelligence and Joey's like a
Speaker 3: little like duf this goofball. He was so hot in
Speaker 3: the early season, and I think, like, I think it
Speaker 3: makes a lot of sense that we child would sort
Speaker 3: of rebound with Joey and then find him really like
Speaker 3: endearing and find some love there. Like it wouldn't just
Speaker 3: be like a one off thing, like if you're getting
Speaker 3: fucked like that, presumably Joy was fucking very well. Oh yeah, Oh,
Speaker 3: I had a reputation going, you know, and then eventually
Speaker 3: like she sort of meanders back into stability with Ross.
Speaker 4: We were on upbreak and his kid col Dylan's Prouse.
Speaker 2: Wait is that who played it? Really? Yeah? Star of
Speaker 2: your upcoming movie.
Speaker 3: Col Dylan'sprosse plays Ross's kid.
Speaker 5: Oh and also Ross's ex wife was a lesbian, Yeah,
Speaker 5: and that was very you know, and in the.
Speaker 3: Beginning it's like kind of a cool lesbian, like not
Speaker 3: it wasn't like I mean, there was some definitely homophobic remarks,
Speaker 3: but like, oh absolutely very truthful to like what a
Speaker 3: straight man would have said at that time.
Speaker 5: It was I mean, I listen, I'm not going to
Speaker 5: say The Friends was surprisingly queer, but like it was,
Speaker 5: it was a more honest depiction of I think what
Speaker 5: what like metropolitan life would have been for these people?
Speaker 5: Then we would have gotten on like a CBS sitcom.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, are there characters that you so obviously these
Speaker 1: characters are like the siss straightest characters all except for
Speaker 1: Chandler's dad. Except for Chandler's dad. But of the six,
Speaker 1: do you do you think or maybe if there's anybody
Speaker 1: else in this like ensemble, do.
Speaker 2: You think any of these folks were eventually queer after
Speaker 2: the show ended.
Speaker 5: I mean maybe had to have babe right, but also.
Speaker 2: Happily married to a man.
Speaker 3: But I do think she's definitely like scissored a few
Speaker 3: girls in her life.
Speaker 5: Sure, But I also have found that it is like
Speaker 5: the crunchiest like sis straight girls in your life who
Speaker 5: you think will be so down, who are actually like
Speaker 5: the most tied to the heteropatriarchy, yeah, and have never
Speaker 5: done anything.
Speaker 3: Literally, I actually feel like Monica is the repress lesbian
Speaker 3: maybe out of.
Speaker 2: All Yes, I could.
Speaker 3: Yes, Rachel's certainly straight. Phoebe I could see being like
Speaker 3: a really like very very like Anti five g or
Speaker 3: right now, very straight with like seventeen kids with that
Speaker 3: hot guy who I think is also in se right,
Speaker 3: the same guy who plays Aiden plays her?
Speaker 4: Is that true? I don't know, actually.
Speaker 2: Does end up with Paul Rudd?
Speaker 3: Is Paul which has this Paul Rudd has a similar
Speaker 3: energy to the guy who plays Aiden, So I think that's.
Speaker 2: Where John Confused would suck.
Speaker 1: I also feel I mean, there's a world I think
Speaker 1: where if there's like a Friend's reboot or whatever, I
Speaker 1: feel like Phoebe would be the one that was like transamorous,
Speaker 1: Like she gets like a like a sexy trans but
Speaker 1: you're like no, Tommy's like no, no, no, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think she's a terf.
Speaker 5: Actually Phoebe's a term.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't see it. From Phoebe's evil. I couldn't
Speaker 2: see Ursula. No, I could see Ursula.
Speaker 4: With a trans man.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe maybe Ursula film Phoebe's fraternal twin who transitions.
Speaker 4: Oh, and that's why Phoebe hates her so much. No
Speaker 4: smelly cats.
Speaker 2: I think Chandler is By.
Speaker 4: Maybe I could see by energy.
Speaker 1: For think Chandler sucked to Dick in college. I don't
Speaker 1: know if he is By personally.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 2: I think he's been in a dark room in his
Speaker 2: life or two.
Speaker 3: I actually think Joey is probably By in some capacity,
Speaker 3: and like fluid.
Speaker 1: I'm also just remembering now, Okay, we said earlier that
Speaker 1: Chandler's quote unquote dad was played by a man, which
Speaker 1: which he was for some of which they was a
Speaker 1: woman sis woman at the end, and like the last season,
Speaker 1: I think a sis woman came in and played Chandler's
Speaker 1: quote unquote dad, because.
Speaker 5: That was the thing with any sort of Transish characters,
Speaker 5: you know, they would always be played by sis women
Speaker 5: to like heighten the joke of like you used to
Speaker 5: be a man.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, it's very ugly, Betty. Yeah, it's very ugly, Betty.
Speaker 2: Yeah right oheut of its time. Did you have a
Speaker 2: favorite episode?
Speaker 3: Well, I love when they go on vacation, like the
Speaker 3: London for Ross's London wedding.
Speaker 2: It's like we.
Speaker 4: Look for the first It's such a fun little moment
Speaker 4: I think there's an episode.
Speaker 3: I don't know why it's coming to my head, but
Speaker 3: like I love all the present day stuff with Monica
Speaker 3: and Ross's parents, like whenever they're in the picture, I
Speaker 3: just think they're really funny. And there's an episode where,
Speaker 3: like Monica Cater's is invited to cater something for the
Speaker 3: first time for her parents, and she loses a fingernail
Speaker 3: in like one of the Shepherd's pies or whatever she's making,
Speaker 3: which is really funny, Like she it's a fake fingernails.
Speaker 3: She really wants to impress her mom, so she's wearing
Speaker 3: like press ons.
Speaker 5: Friends always makes me think of Thanksgiving because they always
Speaker 5: did thinks.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like the Turkey Head.
Speaker 3: Well they all those shows used to do these every
Speaker 3: they cool they were, they were on every week. I
Speaker 3: also used to watch it with my family every week.
Speaker 3: So really like it was like we must see tea.
Speaker 3: We went from Seventh Heaven to Friends weekly basically Seventh Heaven,
Speaker 3: I know, and I was not religion, We were not religious,
Speaker 3: but Jessica Bill.
Speaker 2: Forever we were not allowed to watch Friends.
Speaker 3: Jessca Bill is actually the archetype for me, Like she's
Speaker 3: like she's the blueprint She's the blueprint. Jessca Bill is
Speaker 3: like the rebellious Christian daughter on Seventh Heaven who then
Speaker 3: did eventually leave the show because she was like, onto,
Speaker 3: bigger and better.
Speaker 2: Were you allowed to watch Seventh Heaven?
Speaker 1: We were, We were allowed to watch Seventh Heaven, but
Speaker 1: we didn't as a family, We didn't really watch it, like,
Speaker 1: you know, religiously, even though we were religiously emphasis on religious.
Speaker 2: We were not allowed to watch Friends. Forbidden in my household.
Speaker 1: And when I was like, you know, I would say
Speaker 1: in my like late like preteen years or maybe like yeah,
Speaker 1: preteen years, still in high school. Though I remember like
Speaker 1: at this point I was starting to make choices for
Speaker 1: myself about like what I could watch and what I
Speaker 1: couldn't watch. Still wasn't allowed to watch Friends, but like
Speaker 1: you know, I was, I was becoming an adult, and
Speaker 1: I knew that my mom watched Friends as a comfort show,
Speaker 1: Like I knew that she would engage in it even
Speaker 1: though she was she wouldn't allow us to watch it,
Speaker 1: like it was her kind of quote unquote guilty pleasure
Speaker 1: or whatever. And so one Christmas, a Christmas that we
Speaker 1: spent with my mom's family in Colorado, I found a
Speaker 1: box set of Friends. I don't even remember what season,
Speaker 1: but I found a box set of Friends at like
Speaker 1: Borders or whatever, and I got it from my mom
Speaker 1: for Christmas. And I was like I thought I was
Speaker 1: being thoughtful and like just being like, hey, like I
Speaker 1: you know, especially when you're when you're that age, just
Speaker 1: like you're learning how to give gifts, You're learning how
Speaker 1: to like express love. I'm a big giver. And my mom,
Speaker 1: who was opening this present in front of like our
Speaker 1: entire family, saw like a peak of like the friend's
Speaker 1: logo or whatever, and she just kind of like immediately
Speaker 1: left the room. Yes, and she and I remember, and
Speaker 1: I like what I remember, like just kind of being
Speaker 1: like oh, and she was just.
Speaker 2: Like I just don't want I don't want my sisters
Speaker 2: to see. And she like put it in her bag
Speaker 2: and she was like, thank you for the gift. Oh wow.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: It was such an intense moment and it actually speaks,
Speaker 1: it speaks volumes about like the relationship I had with
Speaker 1: my mom.
Speaker 2: But like it was her shame. Oh my gosh. That
Speaker 2: isn't yes, it's not even that controversial. I honestly think
Speaker 2: you people should be ashamed of liking friends.
Speaker 3: Were like, I think, wow, that's really interesting.
Speaker 4: I feel like, do you have a relationship their mom?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I do. My parents were we're cool now yeah,
Speaker 2: and they're chill. They're very very chill. Now they'll watch friends,
Speaker 2: will watch Friends together. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 4: Great. Yeah, so now you're allowed to watch Friends.
Speaker 2: I'm fine at that stage of my life, we're not
Speaker 2: allowed to watch. When HBO Max bought it, you were
Speaker 2: allowed to watch it.
Speaker 4: Bought it back. I think.
Speaker 2: I'm like, was it controversial?
Speaker 3: I guess there were some themes around it that would
Speaker 3: have been inappropriate to watch as a kid. It's literally
Speaker 3: but it was all like in the windows though, right
Speaker 3: a little bit.
Speaker 4: I yeah, maybe.
Speaker 1: Anything that anything that referenced sex, that sex that depicted
Speaker 1: like two naked bodies and a bed waking up in
Speaker 1: the way that they do, and.
Speaker 2: Sitcoms are like, well what do we just do?
Speaker 1: Which is like the Chandler Moniker, I wake up every
Speaker 1: morning every another naked body.
Speaker 2: You're like, what the what? Yeah? Yeah, oh no.
Speaker 5: Yeah that was a gasp awake every morning, Like I'm
Speaker 5: Phoebe and charmed having a premonition.
Speaker 2: In my household, in my household, the things that were forbidden.
Speaker 2: It was not.
Speaker 1: I mean sometimes it was about swearing, but it wasn't
Speaker 1: about like violencer guns. It was about sex, and sex
Speaker 1: was what they were protecting me from. And that's why,
Speaker 1: you know, Spring Awakening was so radical to me too.
Speaker 1: It's like I was, you know, these these set things,
Speaker 1: sexual things, like you know Romeo plus Julia bas Lerman Rent,
Speaker 1: which we were talking about before we started recording, about
Speaker 1: this kind of predecessor to Spring Awakening, Like I wasn't.
Speaker 4: That the pop rock musical.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Rent really is the blueprint for Spring Awakening. And
Speaker 5: you know, I'm not a Rent girly. I never was,
Speaker 5: but I am a Spring Awakening girly.
Speaker 2: Really. Yeah, why Spring Awakening and not Rent? I don't know.
Speaker 5: And like the thing is, I'm extremely literate when it
Speaker 5: comes to Rent, you know, like I've seen it, I
Speaker 5: know the music.
Speaker 4: I had that.
Speaker 2: Double CD box set, we know, But it wasn't.
Speaker 5: Like I was always when it came to musical theater,
Speaker 5: I was like more fabulous in what I was seeking out,
Speaker 5: Like Phantom of the Opera is my favorite show, Like
Speaker 5: I like.
Speaker 2: A big musical spectacle.
Speaker 5: And then I don't know, I guess Spring Awakening like
Speaker 5: hit me at the right time where I was looking
Speaker 5: for the intimacy that it provided. And I think it's
Speaker 5: also like the dunk and cheek of it all. It
Speaker 5: like is good, you know indie rock community. It's really
Speaker 5: good music and I love.
Speaker 4: Very good lyrics.
Speaker 2: What else did Duncan do?
Speaker 5: He wrote that song Barely Breathing from the nineties where
Speaker 5: that is in the episode of Girls where booth Jonathan
Speaker 5: traps Marnie and the thing with all the TVs and
Speaker 5: it plays on a loop.
Speaker 4: Do you like Girls?
Speaker 2: I love Girls too? It is I.
Speaker 5: I have revisited it so many times after it came
Speaker 5: off the air, and every time I watch it, I
Speaker 5: like it more and more. I think, I think it
Speaker 5: is just fine and like so it was so ahead
Speaker 5: of its time, but also so talk.
Speaker 3: About it like Lena really redefined television and like what
Speaker 3: you could do with television, and like the intimacy and
Speaker 3: the groundedness of like bringing indie movies into television and
Speaker 3: like table television spaces.
Speaker 1: A Sprouse is in one in your in an upcoming
Speaker 1: filed Tommy, what can you what can you tell the virgins?
Speaker 3: In this very early stage, I mean, Cole Sprousse is
Speaker 3: in my movie. He plays this like small sort of
Speaker 3: not small, and he plays a substantive supporting role.
Speaker 4: Great role for him.
Speaker 3: You know, all of the names in this movie are
Speaker 3: really in support of Ben, the lead of our movie.
Speaker 3: And like so I feel really grateful for the actors
Speaker 3: that like showed up for to do this, who like
Speaker 3: I didn't need to, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Like, I feel really really grateful for like friends of
Speaker 3: mine or acquaintances of mine who kind of came in
Speaker 3: and helped get this movie made. Because if you're making
Speaker 3: projects like you need like financiable attributes to those for
Speaker 3: the most part, right and for me, it was with
Speaker 3: this kind of film in particular because it's it was
Speaker 3: sort of like an intimate coming of age film. It's
Speaker 3: not like a big broad you know, comedy or anything.
Speaker 3: Like I really like I needed to have some of
Speaker 3: the support of.
Speaker 4: Certain types of.
Speaker 3: People who are also really talented actors and who really
Speaker 3: believed in like this story and lending their artistry to
Speaker 3: it and also their their their cachet if you will.
Speaker 2: And I've seen it.
Speaker 3: I know we can't go such an early ca so crazy,
Speaker 3: but I'm so grateful because I feel like you gave
Speaker 3: me such really just such such really god feedback.
Speaker 2: Oh thank you. Man is very good at feedback, I
Speaker 2: am to an extent.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I seeing him in that role is this
Speaker 1: kind of supportive, like you know, father figure.
Speaker 2: I was like, we've never seen him in a role
Speaker 2: like this. No, that's cool.
Speaker 3: It was f I mean, looks like Cole's thirty thirty
Speaker 3: one this year. Alex Sadario is also in her mid thirties, Like,
Speaker 3: is this mom like thinking of these two people who
Speaker 3: are like of child bearing rearing age, like getting to
Speaker 3: sort of for coal like step out of a high
Speaker 3: school project or even college project and into like a
Speaker 3: proper like adult thing. Was it was really nice and
Speaker 3: like I'm grateful that like it. It's really nice to
Speaker 3: see him play like a human being again that makes sense?
Speaker 3: Like no, true, not that like they're not human beings
Speaker 3: on Riverdale, but I sort of feel like, I mean,
Speaker 3: I feel like again, drag it is.
Speaker 4: It is drag drag, right, They're always doing some version
Speaker 4: of drag on that show.
Speaker 1: We did an episode about Disney Channel original movies and shows, Wow,
Speaker 1: and we that I think that, you know, the sweet
Speaker 1: like Life of Zack and Cody falls into this like
Speaker 1: it's fabulousm It's like not real life there, And that's
Speaker 1: what you're saying, is like to see him inhabit like
Speaker 1: a real character, I think is incredible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think like, I mean, I'll never forget
Speaker 3: both of them in Big Daddy, right, Like that was
Speaker 3: like sad Adam Chandler movie. You have to watch that tonight,
Speaker 3: Oh my got if you haven't. Yeah, they're the kid
Speaker 3: in Big Daddy. And like the first time I remember
Speaker 3: crying in a movie theater. Wow, or like watching a
Speaker 3: movie like sobbing at the end when when the sun's
Speaker 3: almost like it is like me is like they're going
Speaker 3: to take the sun away from Big Daddy.
Speaker 4: Adam Sandler. I don't know why that really shook me
Speaker 4: to my core.
Speaker 1: Adam Sandler loves like a kind of serious kind of
Speaker 1: like comedy that has a little serious job in it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think especially during that time like he was
Speaker 3: he was peak comedy, like peak theater, like theatrical release
Speaker 3: like game as an actor and still is like such
Speaker 3: a fucking cool, interesting, like genre heavy movie star.
Speaker 1: What's that movie where Adam Sandler can like control his
Speaker 1: family with a control.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Everyone talks about Click. Everyone's like Click was the best movie.
Speaker 2: It was beautiful.
Speaker 5: All those weird like supernatural comedies like Click, Bruce Almighty.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, these are really like there was a
Speaker 3: period where like subgenre genre films were like all that
Speaker 3: was being made, and I feel like maybe are coming
Speaker 3: back into that a little bit.
Speaker 2: I would love that.
Speaker 5: You know what's one of my favorites The Dazzle Uh yeah,
Speaker 5: be Dazzled, Dazzled with with Elizabeth Hurley and the Devil and.
Speaker 2: He sells, he sells his soul.
Speaker 5: He gets seven wishes. It's incredible. And Elizabeth Hurley as
Speaker 5: the Devil.
Speaker 4: Or Shrink Shrink the honeye shrunk the cat, Yes, or.
Speaker 2: Like I loved all of those Look Who's talking? Look
Speaker 2: Who's talking? You know the one where the baby the
Speaker 2: babies talk.
Speaker 4: I loved that.
Speaker 3: Jamie Lee when she was like winning her career Oscar,
Speaker 3: she was like talking about how she's basically only done
Speaker 3: genre movies, and I think that's like such a like
Speaker 3: a specific cool way to be an actor is like
Speaker 3: like you can be like Meryl Streep, or you can
Speaker 3: be like Mariska Haggerty or you can be just like
Speaker 3: genre only like very like and I and I love that.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm like she's really for forty years,
Speaker 3: made such a career out of doing like iconic genre film.
Speaker 2: And especially since the genre girlies are never at the Oscar.
Speaker 2: They never are.
Speaker 3: I mean Mia Goth would talk about this on the
Speaker 3: podcast right now. I'm sure it's like this idea that
Speaker 3: like certain types of films aren't taken sered.
Speaker 2: Are you a me? Are you a Mia Gothstan?
Speaker 4: I love me a Goth?
Speaker 2: Are you friends? Are you know?
Speaker 4: I don't know her? I don't you.
Speaker 2: Seem like you would?
Speaker 4: I thank you again, Like I think I'm not that cool. Well,
Speaker 4: she seems so cool to me.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna catch you. I'm gonna catch you, like in
Speaker 1: a photo with her, like weeks from now.
Speaker 3: I mean so like I'm arising Leo. So I think
Speaker 3: people think of me a lot as like someone who's
Speaker 3: like friends with everybody, and like I'm definitely like well
Speaker 3: acquainted and like very friendly and like end up in
Speaker 3: certain whether it's like through manifestation or like sheer will
Speaker 3: or like luck, I don't really know, but like, especially
Speaker 3: when I was living in La I was just sort
Speaker 3: of like always like finding myself in like these rooms
Speaker 3: with certain types of people, and now that I'm back
Speaker 3: in New York that feels very like far away.
Speaker 4: But I do have I do have this.
Speaker 3: Thing where it's like I think there's a period on
Speaker 3: twin before like I had any work come out where
Speaker 3: I was just like known as like the faggot who
Speaker 3: was friends with all the Alis celebrities for no reason
Speaker 3: or something. Yeah yeah right, yeah, no, no, no, for sure,
Speaker 3: everyone's just like, wow, I think that's accurate.
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: I know, I know, I know what's being said, but
Speaker 3: in my head, I'm like I'm so much more than
Speaker 3: that you are.
Speaker 2: I'm working on all these things.
Speaker 3: She's not her, and I'm finally happy to like be
Speaker 3: like three years later, like I'm finally like starting to
Speaker 3: like announce and release and shoot stuff that I've been
Speaker 3: working on for so long, because there was just like
Speaker 3: I'm not the type of girl who will like talk
Speaker 3: about stuff before it's more more or less baked.
Speaker 4: So and you're just not even to.
Speaker 3: Friends, really like to close friends, but like or like
Speaker 3: in work meetings. But I wasn't like going around town
Speaker 3: being like I've sold like this many projects on this
Speaker 3: many things like until I had like like ink had
Speaker 3: dried and like things were going and even still I'm very,
Speaker 3: very very uh may be superstitious and also just trepidacious
Speaker 3: about the way in which I discussed work and what
Speaker 3: I choose to talk about or not talk about, as
Speaker 3: you should be, because I've also especially in how I
Speaker 3: would like so many people will be like they'll like
Speaker 3: have had like a callback or producer session, and like
Speaker 3: I'll hear them being like I booked this role and
Speaker 3: I'm like.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, you literally don't have that job, Like you're.
Speaker 3: Just so stressful, Like I really hope you get that,
Speaker 3: and then like nine percent of the time, like they
Speaker 3: don't get the job, and I'm like that gives me
Speaker 3: like the most anxiety ever.
Speaker 4: So I'm just really careful.
Speaker 3: But but yeah, there was definitely a period of time
Speaker 3: like a little bit pre pandemic pandemic, like I just I, yeah,
Speaker 3: I have a lot of close friends who are really
Speaker 3: successful in their field and like significantly more successful.
Speaker 4: Than I have been in mine.
Speaker 3: Lena talked about this. Okay, there's a piece in the
Speaker 3: cut that Brock wrote about me. It was basically talked
Speaker 3: a little bit about that, and I think like she
Speaker 3: she called Lena about it, and Lena was like, Lena
Speaker 3: very graciously said that I'm a person that you just
Speaker 3: want to be around, which I thought that was very sweet,
Speaker 3: because I'm not sure that's entirely well, I don't always
Speaker 3: want to be around me, but I do think like
Speaker 3: I'm a pretty good friend and like a good listener,
Speaker 3: and like I'm good at like I pick up the
Speaker 3: phone when you're calling kind of person and like so,
Speaker 3: and I'm good at like keeping secrets as well. So
Speaker 3: I feel like I've just I don't know, but my
Speaker 3: hair hasn't gott any bigger from that.
Speaker 2: Unfortunate honestly, Well, when it does, you can get the Rachel.
Speaker 4: I can't the fucking Rachel cut.
Speaker 2: Would you ever get the race Rachel cut.
Speaker 3: I'm currently in the stage of trying to grow my
Speaker 3: hair out, but curly girls, no, like, it just takes
Speaker 3: so much longer. But I'm trying to. I think I'm
Speaker 3: trying to just like just just below the collar bone.
Speaker 3: I feel like the Rachel cut in my forties, so
Speaker 3: like in ten years feels appropriate.
Speaker 2: Okay, and see you then then right, let's do it, Tommy.
Speaker 1: I do see you entering like an era in your
Speaker 1: career that is kind of like the Lena or the
Speaker 1: Miya Goth moment where you're like, I'm going to do
Speaker 1: you know your writer, You're gonna get on your writer director,
Speaker 1: like you know what I mean? Like, and I honestly
Speaker 1: I love that you're I honestly, when when I heard
Speaker 1: the film announced, I thought that you were going to
Speaker 1: be in it as well, and you You're not.
Speaker 2: No, You're entering you want to be a true girl boss.
Speaker 3: Well, I no, I think I want to act too,
Speaker 3: Like I'm gonna undition for something after this today, like
Speaker 3: I'm I'm gonna go home and put myself on tape
Speaker 3: or something like. I'm still looking for that. But I'm
Speaker 3: very because I have like multiple streams of revenue and
Speaker 3: creative outlets, like I'm I'm not. I'm just no longer
Speaker 3: going to like do the bad acting job because I
Speaker 3: feel like I have to do it right now, which
Speaker 3: feels good.
Speaker 4: But I do miss it and at some point I'll
Speaker 4: get back to it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm definitely in my like producorial bag at
Speaker 3: the moment, proudusorial.
Speaker 2: Maybe you'll play Rachel in the Friends.
Speaker 4: Ah.
Speaker 2: Okay, that is the I want to make.
Speaker 3: I want to make a sun Dance film that's about
Speaker 3: trans Rachel, about a trans girl who wakes up from
Speaker 3: a coma thinking that she's Rachel from friends who.
Speaker 2: Sort of like that Rebel Wilson movie where she wakes
Speaker 2: up Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, So it's a version of it. I feel pretty,
Speaker 4: but she's a doll in like Tennessee.
Speaker 2: Wait, would would absolutely watch Okay, cool.
Speaker 4: Green Lan write it already, got somebody do it? I can't.
Speaker 5: Next week we will be back with an episode that
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Speaker 5: our dm sot Like a Virgin four twenty sixty nine
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Speaker 5: Our producer is Phoebe Unter with support from Lindsay Hoffman
Speaker 5: and Nikki tour until next week.
Speaker 2: Later Visions