WEBVTT - Defining Love for Yourself + Soul Contracts: with Cleo Wade 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:08.119 Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever, 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:12.320 pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:13.800 and I have conversations that. 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:18.880 Put a new spin on pretty. This is pretty smart. 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.960 We talk a lot about self love lately on podcasts, 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.960 on TikTok and in our own heart to heart conversations. 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:32.240 We're all really rooting for everyone to love themselves more. 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:37.199 But have you ever flipped the question on yourself? Do 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.840 you love you? Really? 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:41.240 Truly? 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:42.440 Do you love yourself? 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:47.839 The act of really deeply embracing yourself is not as 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:51.280 easy as it may seem. Five years ago, I was 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.480 on the phone with an older, wiser, married, successful friend 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:58.440 whose opinion I trust. He was at the airport waiting 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.320 for his flight at the I could hear all the 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.040 noise in the background, but we hadn't spoken in a 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:08.000 while and I wanted to catch up, so he started 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:10.639 asking me questions, how is my work? How is life? 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.679 He knew my ex boyfriend and said, are you dating? 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.520 Tell me about the new men in your life, and 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.800 I'm gonna be honest with you. I was really acutely 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.800 depressed at the time, and I was on my couch 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.240 and it took everything in me to muster up some optimistic, 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:31.080 even borderline fake answers for him. He was about to 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.080 ask me another question when he paused and he said, Danielle, 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:39.480 do you love yourself? I said, of course, I feel confident. 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.560 I have always felt confident. He said, no, I know 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.640 you feel confident, but do you love yourself? Can you 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:47.160 say it out loud? Try it? 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:49.480 I was like, I'm absolutely not. 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:50.320 Doing that with you. 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.000 That's like what you do in the bathroom in the 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.000 mirror to yourself. He goes, no, try it, say it 0:01:56.040 --> 0:02:00.600 out loud, say it and mean it. I tried, but 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.280 I could not get the words out, and I started crying, 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:05.280 which shocked me. 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:07.680 Did I not love myself? 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:10.280 Or was I just so depressed that I couldn't muster 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.040 up the energy for this exercise he was putting me through. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:15.880 I still to this day can't believe that I couldn't 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:20.560 get the words out. But five years later and I 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:25.920 can say it loudly, proudly, I love myself, and I 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:31.840 gotta tell you, authentically, truly, sincerely. Loving myself has allowed 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:35.280 me to give so much more love to my friends, 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:40.600 to my family, to somebody that annoys me, to everybody. 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:41.720 You know. 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.720 If there was a masterclass on this topic of self 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:48.440 love or love in general, our guests today could teach it. 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:55.520 Cleo Wade is a poet, author, speaker, and the New 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.960 York Times best selling author of Heart Talk. Cleo has 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:03.400 a new book out, Remember Love, Words for Tender Times 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:08.080 and Aren't We Living in Tender Times? I love Cleo's 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.480 writing because she just gets to it. She says the 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.120 things we are all feeling. You can open one of 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:16.360 her books, shuffle the pages like a deck of cards, 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.920 and whichever poem you land on feels like the words 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.000 you needed to hear that day. And lucky for us, 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:25.080 so much of the wisdom you can find in her 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.440 books she was generous enough to share with us in 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:29.320 this conversation. 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:32.280 Truth's about heartbreak. 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.960 I think that love is aligned within, and once it's crossed, 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:37.640 you will just live on the other side. 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:39.720 I think you want things more than you want the 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:42.360 person that you're in love with. You have to always 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:43.200 ask yourself. 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.560 I think when you're going through a breakup, to keep 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.240 yourself from calling or going back, what do I want 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:51.960 more than I want this person who is not going to. 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:52.680 Give me what I need? 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.840 Loneliness when you put on your pajamas and you go 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.520 to bed and your head hits the pillow and you're 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.080 not falling asleep right away. You are alone with your 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.920 feelings and no one else is feeling exactly what you're 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:12.200 feeling but you. And there's such incredible loneliness to feel 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.360 alone in this very tender. 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:15.760 Tough thing. 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.560 And why the next time we're struggling, she suggests we 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:22.000 put all those emotions on the page. 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:24.719 I mean, I always say that poetry. 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.919 Was my therapy before I could afford a therapist, because 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.279 I couldn't afford a therapist, but there was no way 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.080 I could possibly understand what was going on within me 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:36.719 unless I moved it outside of my body and put 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:38.040 it on a page. 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:41.960 Speaking of therapy, I usually feel like these episodes are 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.159 a mix of interviews and therapy with our guests. But 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:49.440 for the first time ever, the roles were reversed. I 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:52.240 think Cleo took me to therapy. I don't want to 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:54.920 hold up this conversation anymore, but I want to share 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.840 one last thing. In twenty twenty, I got my first 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:03.080 and only tattoo. It says on my fingers, think prayer hands. 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.760 L on one pointer finger and ve on the other. 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.240 And I got it for a few reasons. But one 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.360 of those reasons is that it was a reminder to 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:17.279 me to remember love, remember love when I was feeling hurt, sad, angry, 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:21.640 anything other than loving. To remember love because it's always 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:25.360 the answer. We never go wrong when we lead with love. 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.279 And that's what today is all about. Love of others 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.520 and love of self, sacred love. 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:37.080 You are from New. 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:40.440 Orleans am the best place ever. I'm sorry to all 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:44.240 other places. I love it too. There is a mysticism 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.760 about it. Yeah, And the first time I was there, I. 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.080 Took like a walking tour. They have these things called 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.400 free tours by foot in every city. But I wrote 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:55.400 this down from my tour years ago. He said, it's 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:59.600 a city where the dead refused to rest, and literally right, 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:01.960 because so many of the coffins are above ground. 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.400 They all are because the city is below sea level, 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.520 so if we buried people, they'd all float, Oh my god. 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:09.479 And so everyone is above ground. 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:15.360 But there's also this like third eye feeling of the city. 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.279 Yeah, but you know, I haven't friend anyone said ghosts 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.880 don't swim and said that's why New Orleans is such 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.040 a spooky place because everyone's kind of trapped in this 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:26.960 little kind of space surrounded by water. Yeah, but I 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:32.760 think also New Orleans is a really truly bohemian city 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.840 in America, and it really does culturally live by its 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:37.640 own rules. 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.560 So but there's sort of when I say, I want 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:42.760 to be clear, when I say mysticism, I mean it 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.960 in a positive way. Yeah, Like I feel like there's 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:49.400 a mysticism to your work, and I was wondering if 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:52.919 you felt like it came from the feel of the 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:53.560 city at all. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:58.200 I think definitely New Orleans is a deeply spiritual place. 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.919 I mean, it's a really for a small place, it 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:03.479 is very dense. 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:04.599 In the culture of spirit. 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.479 But I think, more than anything, one of the most 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.440 spiritual things on earth, which is why I think people. 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:12.840 Die trying to have it. 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.200 As freedom, I think it's a very free place, and 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.360 so I think the freedom of the city is what 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:19.440 I've always felt the. 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:21.280 Most inspired by. 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:26.600 And I think in that this idea of like non 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:31.320 judgmentalism in pursuit of freedom is really the heart of 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.720 my work. Can I let go of this self judgment 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.920 I have so that I can be free to field 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:38.920 so I can be free to be okay with where 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.320 I am or what I'm going through or what I 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:44.080 want for my life. And so I think if I 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.400 hadn't have grown up in a place where I saw 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:52.840 people saying, well, I want to, like, you know, dress 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.400 in a wig and glitter and whatever. 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.240 Four times a year, or I want to get dressed up. 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.000 I mean, if you go to Marti Grass, every single 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.400 person has a boa on or this or that, and 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:04.000 it is very weird. 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.840 To not cover your face and glitter and it's not 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:07.400 like this. 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:09.480 I know a lot of people, I think get this 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:14.120 from Burning Man. But imagine if that essence of that 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:18.400 kind of really controlled thing existed in some way in 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:21.160 a city all year round, in some capacity. 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:25.960 That's well said. So I've always felt like writing as 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:28.680 a form of therapy. I don't know if that resonates 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.120 with you. Yeah, I know, it's your work. 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.280 So I think especially poetry, because I mean, I always 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.680 say that poetry was my therapy before I could afford 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:41.280 a therapist, because I couldn't afford a therapist, but there 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.200 was no way I could possibly understand what was going 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.920 on within me unless I've moved it outside of my 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.600 body and put it on a page. And I always 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.080 say to people that, like whether you're a writer or not, 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:55.120 or you think about writing, like move it out of 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.800 your body and put it on the page. Because when 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.480 your feelings or your experiences are only living inside of you, 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.080 every thought you have, you're trying to bribe or rush 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:05.280 or move or do or. 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:07.120 Judge or whatever. 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.439 Whereas when you put it on the page, you can 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.520 see your story and you can say, wow, this is real. 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.200 I really feel this way, but this isn't necessarily true, 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.280 and wow, I can really notice that like this is 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.920 the fifth time I've done this, or like why do 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:23.840 I feel this way? 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.760 Like you can really question, I think what goes on 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:29.720 within you when you see it in front of you. 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.920 I do this really weird thing to admit, but if 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.000 I don't know what advice to give myself, I think 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:40.960 about the situation on stage as a play and I say, like, 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:42.839 what would I tell my character to do? 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.720 Yes, And it's such amazing advice. Well it's the same 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:46.280 with writing. 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:52.040 Yeah, Well, and like you'd also if you were an 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.160 actor who is going to take on a role, you 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:58.000 would like study the character and so that you so 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.000 that as you even if you've got on that staf 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:04.560 to be them. You felt like you embodied them by 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.840 really studying them, so that if you cried, it came 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.480 from a really sincere and high integrity place of why 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.360 the character's crying. And so the thing is is that, yes, 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:18.360 like directing your life is so powerful and also studying 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:19.800 your life is so powerful. 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.160 You mentioned feelings, big feelings. 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:28.640 As a person who is so good with big feelings, 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:30.760 how do you not get stuck in them? 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.560 I do, you know? I think we all do. 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:39.120 I think some of us just I think over time 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:43.559 you just developed different tools in different ways to. 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:44.480 Catch something as it's building. 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.920 Because like, some big feelings come in they are just 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:50.000 a big feeling, but most big feelings are the accumulation 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.800 of a lot of unacknowledged small feelings. So it really 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:58.640 does kind of snowball into this bigger snowball. And so 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.480 I think that part of the kind of heart work 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.959 you do for yourself, spiritual work, therapeutic work, community work 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.080 where you have friends that help you acknowledge things in 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:12.600 you is saying like, well, I have all these small things. 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.760 I kind of catch them before they become one big thing. Right, 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.440 So like instead of you know, allowing for all of 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:24.160 my unacknowledged feelings to become a resentment, which is the biggest, hardest, 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.600 a big hard feeling to deal with. I can catch 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:32.560 the unacknowledged feelings as they're coming, or I can catch 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.800 them sooner, or I can say, like, damn, I got 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:36.760 to really like nip this in the bud before. 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:38.360 And that's a practice. 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:40.720 So obviously you don't get it right every time. I 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:45.760 certainly don't, but even knowing what you need to attempt 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:51.199 to do to just have a kind of more peaceful 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:53.760 inside is helpful. 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.880 I've never heard anybody say that, and it's really poignant. 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.720 It is because I've heard resentment is an un spoken no. 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.320 But it's the same thing. It's not acknowledging. 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:09.360 Yeah, it's a need that that went unfulfilled and unacknowledged. 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.880 Yeah, so you've said that you named your new book 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.000 remember Love, because there are no two words that you 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.280 have said to yourself more in the past three years. 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.120 Tell me where remember Love was born? 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:27.800 Okay, So I am in postpartum, my postpartum period where 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:32.080 I was experiencing some pretty incredible depression with Memphis. 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:33.480 I think it was with me. 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.000 Yeah, I mean I had postpartum depression with both of 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:40.640 my kids, but there was what so hard, Oh, it's 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.439 so hard. I don't wish it on myself. I don't 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.160 wish I would have gone through it. But I also 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:50.720 respect that, like my body needed to do something in 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.360 order for me to know something. I think. 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:56.400 I mean, I hope, but I. 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:00.920 Think something that's really interesting is if your body's going 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:03.960 through a funky time. Part of how you know that 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:06.840 is if your usual stuff that helps you isn't helping. 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:09.800 So for me, it's like if I'm having a hard day, 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:11.800 or I'm feeling a little low, or I'm feeling a 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.720 little anxious, it's like I get in the bathtub, I 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.480 listen to Tara Brock and he's this meditation teacher I've 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:22.640 listened to for fifteen years, and so I get in 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.320 and I'm kind of like, ugh, like I'm just foggy. 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.720 I'm like I'm kind of listening, I'm kind of not 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:30.320 I'm just like in that kind of you know that 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.520 days of like that. I mean, I'm sure so many 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.000 people feel it, especially in our world right now, it's 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:41.160 like so hard to break the fog. And all of 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.640 a sudden, she's speaking and I just hear her say 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.679 remember love in a sentence. I don't even think it 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:48.439 was the point of the sentence. I couldn't even tell 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:50.400 you the episode, but I heard her say it, yeah, 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.680 and it just shifted something in me, like it didn't 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:58.319 cure my postpartum depression by any means, but it told 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.040 me like it just it. 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:00.240 It did. 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:02.120 It was as if someone had grabbed my shirt and 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:06.360 pulled me out to say, like, something's going on. And 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.240 I think, I mean, obviously, I believe in the power 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.040 of words. Words saved me every time I needed saving, 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.360 like I read Rumy poems or Maya Angelou poems or 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.640 Lngston Hughes poems or Mary Alliver poems that truly, like 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.280 you know, when like Mary Oliver said joy is not 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.560 meant to be a crumb, that changed my life. That 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:31.760 changed the way I understood and sought after joy and 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.760 made space for joy. And so I know that I 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.760 know that power and I feel so lucky that I, 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:41.920 you know, get to work in that power where I 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.720 know that words have really helped so many people in 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:46.640 my community through a hard time. 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:51.840 And so when I heard those two words, they kind 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:52.760 of became my mantra. 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.040 I remember. I got a post it note and I 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.200 wrote on it please remember love, and I put it 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:02.320 on the top of a board. And I think there 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:08.440 was something about those words that helped me find where 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.000 I was not being kind to myself, which is what 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:15.360 actually created like the stuckness of my postpart and depression. 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.600 So like, I think, when you're moving slowly, you're kind 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.160 of mean to yourself. So I think that that's whether 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.320 you're a runner and you sprained, you know, you have 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:25.600 a pulled muscle, and you're just like. 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:27.320 Oh, my body, my body, I'm mad at my. 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.080 Body when your body is actually just saying slow down 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.160 so I can heal, and you're saying, no, this is 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:33.240 what I want to be doing, and this is what 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:34.800 I think you should be doing, and you're making me 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.080 feel like I'm broken, and that's making me feel like 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:41.720 my life is like ending instead of you know, beginning 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.360 or plateauing. And so I think for me, when I 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:47.960 was I didn't realize that I had so much wrapped 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:52.360 into productivity and getting things done and being able to 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.640 be that person for so many people and do and 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:59.480 do and do and do that I was mad at myself. 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.200 I had shame in not being able to do and so, 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.320 and I didn't even know. I actually realized that I 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.360 didn't really know how to love myself as a non doer, 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:13.240 as just a simple as a beer and so in 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:16.440 that when I I could when I heard the words 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.520 remember love, I kept being like, okay, could can I 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:20.400 remember love? 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:23.040 When I talk to myself? 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:25.680 Like what would would the way would would what I'm 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:27.960 hearing inside be something I would say to somebody I 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.360 love because I am someone I love. 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.920 Too, And so it was it was it hard to 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:37.800 say that ever to myself. Yeah, there's I have like 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:42.960 five copies of Heart Talk like that, and I love 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.840 books because I love words, and I keep I have 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:47.840 a whole bookshelf, but I keep a few in my 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.240 room and I keep Heart Talk in my room by 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.400 my bed, and so much of. 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.600 It is about love and heartbreak. 0:16:56.400 --> 0:17:00.920 And I was reading Remember Love and thinking this is 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.119 love to But this book is about self love? Is 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:05.520 that how you felt writing it? 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:08.080 You know? I remember even when hart Talk came out, 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.960 people were like surprised I wrote about because I think 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.320 at the time it was kind of right, you know. 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:18.439 Around the twenty sixteen twenty seventeen elections in America was 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.520 having such a politically charged time, and so many of 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.000 my words and writings had been. 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:27.679 Used in the kind of political sphere, And so. 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.199 Did you intend for that or did it because your 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:31.720 words became activism in a. 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:32.320 Lot of ways. 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:34.679 I don't know that it was an intention, but I 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:39.880 wasn't really surprised by it, because I certainly was inspired 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:45.360 by the ways in which poets and writers like Alice 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:50.400 Walker or Angela Davis or Gloria Steinem how they did 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.240 create words that activated people, even if it was just 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.960 through a poem or Lucille Clifton like. And so I think, 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.199 for me, Tony Morrison at my Angela like, I think 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.520 there were so many ways in which, like you know 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:09.159 how and still I rise is in themic to the 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:14.879 human experience and the political kind of or the human 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.359 endurance needed to kind of survive our political systems and 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:22.600 their injustice and inequities. And so I'm never surprised when 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:24.639 poetry is kind of brought into the mixed, you know, 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:27.560 I don't think it's like, I think it makes total sense. 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.720 And ave every you know, presidential inauguration since Kennedy, there's 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.720 a poet there. Do you know, because I think poetry 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:39.639 really does bring to life our you know, most interior wants, 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.879 desires and stories and creates a space for us to 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:47.720 imagine because it brings art to our emotional life. And 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:49.800 I think when we can or it turns our emotional 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.240 life into an art that can be shared. 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.399 And so I wasn't surprised, but you know, at the 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:57.160 time when I was. 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.520 Writing hard Talk, they were like, well, should this be 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.439 a like people really thought I think thought I would 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.240 kind of have created a work that was more specific 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:09.080 to words for a political time rather than words for 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:11.920 the heart. I think they thought it would be more 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.439 like words for the world. And I would always say, like, 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.080 you can't think about how to be a good citizen 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.480 until you've figured out how to be a person you're 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.119 proud of, Like you can't figure out like how to 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:26.600 be kind to your neighbor without self kindness, without knowing 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:28.679 how to give yourself a pep talk, without knowing how 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:29.639 to be your own friend. 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:32.719 And so Heart Talk was really this book that was like, 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:34.080 this is. 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.000 About building yourself up, like just a building and a 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.960 building and a building. And I think remember love is 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:44.879 about like a true like investigation into the self. And 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.320 so it is as if I mean, I remember when 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:48.920 I was writing it, I was kind of going through 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.000 some of my toughest moments, and I was like, gosh, 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.960 if I every time, and in various ways that there 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:58.240 was through heartbreak, whether it was through disappointment and work, 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:02.240 whether it's through disappointment in my family, myself and relationships. 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:04.399 Every time I felt like I was lost in the 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:06.520 dark and I was looking for the light, and I'm 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:08.639 searching and I'm searching and I'm searching until I realize 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:10.399 I can only turn it on within, and that I 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.399 was the light the whole damn time. How could I 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:17.159 retrace that? And so for me remember love is like 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:20.040 truly a trail of breadcrumbs of like getting back to 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:20.800 your light within. 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:23.640 There's I don't want to butcher what you said because 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:25.440 I don't have it in my notes, but I remember 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.280 listening to you on a podcast and you were talking 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:32.320 about how you were going through a really kind of 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.160 tough relationship. This guy was not being kind to you, 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.280 he didn't like feel your soul, and you had a 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.400 friend call you and she said something like, this has 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.480 nothing to do with him. Why do you feel like 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.040 this is what you Yeah, she said, I'll never forget 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.280 my friend Shatah and. 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:52.320 One of my best friends. 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.080