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Speaker 1: Native Lampod is a production of iHeart Radio in partnership

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Speaker 1: with Reason Choice Media. Welcome home, y'all. This is episode

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Speaker 1: one seventeen of Native Lampod, where we give you our

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Speaker 1: breakdown of all things politics and culture. I am your

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Speaker 1: host today, Bacari Sellers, and I'm joined by my co host,

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Speaker 1: none other than Angela Raie and Andrew Gillham. And I'm

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Speaker 1: excited to actually have a better host than both of

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Speaker 1: them joining us today. To a Mika Mollory, what's going.

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Speaker 2: On, Well, we'll take family. I'm so excited to be

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Speaker 2: here with you all. Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Welcome home, says we welcome home. This is going to

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Speaker 3: be the youngest looking woman in the.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's putting no respect on her name.

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Speaker 4: This is the incredible co host of TMI podcast. She's

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Speaker 4: a legendary activist, a best selling author, not of one,

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Speaker 4: but two books. She is our dear sister, friend and

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Speaker 4: comrade who's known forever. We're thrilled to have her join

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Speaker 4: us as a co host today, but is to South Carolina.

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Speaker 3: For me, I don't know was going to mention with

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Speaker 3: her two books that he also is a two times.

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Speaker 1: I was not going to do that. I only do

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Speaker 1: that to you and thank you for putting thank you

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Speaker 1: for putting some respect on that. I also think that

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Speaker 1: sometimes like the work that you do speak for you.

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Speaker 1: There's no doubt that Tamika is a heroine of our day.

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Speaker 1: And we appreciate all the.

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Speaker 5: Work that you do, and so you for sure, and

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Speaker 5: especially my sister, you know how much I love you.

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Speaker 5: I work for Angela Rye regularly, just so everyone knows

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Speaker 5: y'all work.

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Speaker 2: I just I'm so grateful that you all feel called.

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Speaker 1: Yes, passion, You're grateful, grateful you call us off. Look, Tomika,

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Speaker 1: we still we're still smoothing this out, but we actually

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Speaker 1: had this new part of our show that we love.

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Speaker 1: It's called for your Situational Awareness y F y A.

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Speaker 1: I've been messing up the acronym for a long period

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Speaker 1: of time, but we like to run down. It's n

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Speaker 1: s f W not safe for work. That's what I

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Speaker 1: call it. I don't know these acronyms be bothering me,

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Speaker 1: but that's.

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Speaker 2: How you know, be up to no good, not safe

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Speaker 2: for work.

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Speaker 1: That's how No, that's not how you catch the case.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes when you're watching something in a little virus

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Speaker 1: screen pop up. I don't care about that virus. Go ahead,

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Speaker 1: they can watch it with me anyway. Oh, anyway, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna get started because this past weekend we had the Grammys.

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Speaker 1: I think everybody watched the Grammys. The Grammys were so dope.

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Speaker 1: It was represented with diversity. We needed it. Our good

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Speaker 1: friend Jelly Roll actually won some Grammys and was.

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Speaker 2: Damn good friend.

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Speaker 1: I mean during the South, we say our good I mean,

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Speaker 1: first of all, he.

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Speaker 3: Did the reverse in the South. Whatever you say, they mean.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, bless your bless your heart, bless you, bless y'all.

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Speaker 1: But he was up the Bible thump in Jesus, Jesus,

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Speaker 1: Jesus in his acceptance speech, and then they asked him

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Speaker 1: a question about ice, and he forgot all about Jesus.

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Speaker 1: We were all the class.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: I know they're gonna try to kick me off here,

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Speaker 6: so just let me try to get this out. First

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Speaker 6: of all, Jesus, I hear you, and I'm listening, Lord,

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Speaker 6: I am listening Lord. Second of all, I want to

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Speaker 6: thank my beautiful wife. I would have never changed my

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Speaker 6: life without you. I'd ended up dead or in jail.

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Speaker 6: I'd have killed myself if it wasn't for you and Jesus.

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Speaker 6: I thank you for that. I thank you for my label.

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Speaker 6: Broken Boat a country radio.

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Speaker 7: Baby.

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Speaker 3: What's up y'all?

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Speaker 8: All Republic John and Neely, we did it.

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Speaker 1: Baby.

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Speaker 6: There was a time in my life y'all that I

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Speaker 6: was I was broken. That's why I wrote this album.

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Speaker 6: I didn't think I had a chance, y'all. There was

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Speaker 6: days that I thought the darkest things. I was a

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Speaker 6: horrible human. There was a moment in my life that

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Speaker 6: all I had was a Bible this big in a

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Speaker 6: radio the same size, and a six by eight foot

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Speaker 6: sell And I believe that those two things could change

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Speaker 6: my life. I believe that music had the power to

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Speaker 6: change my life, and God had the power to change

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Speaker 6: my life.

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Speaker 1: And I want to.

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Speaker 8: Tell y'all right now, Jesus is for everybody. Jesus is

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Speaker 8: not on by one political party. Jesus is not owned

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Speaker 8: by no music label. Jesus is Jesus, and anybody can

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Speaker 8: have a relationship with him.

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Speaker 3: I love you, Lord.

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Speaker 1: And so that was the Bible thumping on stage. It

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Speaker 1: was a lot of Jesus, and I was with him.

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Speaker 1: I clap, you know. I like to be sanctified every

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Speaker 1: now and then, but this was him afterwards talking about

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Speaker 1: ice right.

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Speaker 6: Every now and then, you're so judgment I can tell

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Speaker 6: you that people shouldn't care to hear my opinion. Man,

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Speaker 6: you know, I'm a dumb redneck. I haven't watched enough.

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Speaker 6: I didn't have a phone for eighteen months. I've had

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Speaker 6: one for four months and don't have social media. I

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Speaker 6: hate to be the artist in static aloof but I

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Speaker 6: just I've come so disconnected from what's happening, and I'm

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Speaker 6: just not a I grew up in a house of

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Speaker 6: like insane pandemonium and like like I didn't even know

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Speaker 6: politics were fucking real until I was in my mid

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Speaker 6: twenties in jail. Like that's how disconnected when you grow

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Speaker 6: up in a drug addict household. You think we like

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Speaker 6: have common calls about what's happening in world politics, Like

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Speaker 6: we're just trying to find a way to survive. Man,

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Speaker 6: you know, And I have a lot to say about it.

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Speaker 6: I'm going to in the next week and everybody's gonna

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Speaker 6: hear exactly what I have to say about it in

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Speaker 6: the most loud and clear way I've ever spoke in

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Speaker 6: my life. So I look forward to it. Thank you

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Speaker 6: for bringing it up.

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Speaker 3: What was the question to him.

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Speaker 2: Comment about Ice.

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Speaker 1: They asked about Ice and ice attention and what he's

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Speaker 1: seeing in the streets, and that was his response.

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Speaker 5: Can I just say his was jelly rolling. He was

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Speaker 5: yelling all around, here's my thing.

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Speaker 4: I just don't understand how he's like, I only had

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Speaker 4: a fall for four months.

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Speaker 2: Friends.

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Speaker 4: In the last four months, Ice has wage war on

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Speaker 4: this country.

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Speaker 2: So you should absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Know what's good in.

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Speaker 2: Minnesota and in Tennessee. They in Tennessee.

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Speaker 4: This dude lives in Tennessee with Bunny Hopper, his wife

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Speaker 4: or whatever her name is.

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Speaker 2: So he ought to know.

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Speaker 4: He ought to know what's happening with Ice, and he

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Speaker 4: ought to know something about it since he probably since

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Speaker 4: he said he was in detention, he should know what

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Speaker 4: he should know what it means to have your rights

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Speaker 4: protected or violated.

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Speaker 2: He should have a thought. He does know. He does

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Speaker 2: know for sure, So he said, clears a lot he lies.

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Speaker 5: And furthermore, he's in pictures and videos with Trump and

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Speaker 5: MAGA stuff, and like they have now exposed him on

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Speaker 5: social media that he's actually hanging out with these folks.

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Speaker 2: So his phone was working somehow.

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Speaker 5: To get him these other events that he went to

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Speaker 5: so cut it, cut it.

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Speaker 2: He was jelly rolling.

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Speaker 1: He was he was, he was jelly rolling. I'm actually

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Speaker 1: a jelly row fan. I listened to him while I run.

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Speaker 1: I love his music, and I actually go back to

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Speaker 1: jelly roll.

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Speaker 2: We just started a boy off.

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Speaker 1: He used to he used to, He used to wrap.

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Speaker 1: He started out wrapping with three six months in them.

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Speaker 1: Now they check them stats in Tennessee. We're gonna We're

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Speaker 1: gonna move right along to the Secretary of War, Secretary

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Speaker 1: of Defense, whatever y'all want to call him. And this

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Speaker 1: is a unique thing because it ties into the movie Milania. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, last yeah, last week Keg's breath, but

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Speaker 1: Pete's head's gaff actually met with he actually I can't

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Speaker 1: even say, it don't matter to mean And the black

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Speaker 1: guy had to be overly qualified and he had to

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Speaker 1: be Pete. So yeah, so anyway, then you know, we

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Speaker 1: know Jeff Bezos spent seventy million dollars on Milania to

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Speaker 1: buy the rights and to advertise it, and then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, the next week, Blue Origin, Jeff Bezos,

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Speaker 1: Pete Hesgeth are having a meeting about defense contracts. Take

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Speaker 1: a look at this clip Jerry, it's so much reportant.

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Speaker 7: It's great to see you.

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Speaker 3: Are you doing all right?

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Speaker 6: Well, Dave Limm, Jeff, thank you for being here.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Welcome. The grift continues. What do y'all

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Speaker 1: think about Milania and watching this grift play out in

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Speaker 1: real life?

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Speaker 2: Well, first, first, let's just acknowledge what happened.

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Speaker 4: Pete Haig Seth and Jeff Bezos are shaking hands, They're

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Speaker 4: greeting one another.

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Speaker 2: It's looking real friendly and like.

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Speaker 3: At at Bezos's.

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Speaker 1: It's at Blue Origin. It's at Bezos in California, in California. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's at Blue Origin. And the cop purpose of the

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Speaker 1: conversation was to talk about Blue Origins defense contracts with

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Speaker 1: the United States military and others.

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Speaker 4: I think that the point here is that we have

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Speaker 4: to understand whether or not him paying so much money

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Speaker 4: for a documentary that only made seven million dollars, Right,

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Speaker 4: seven million dollars.

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Speaker 2: It's debut week, and it cost how much.

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Speaker 1: Makari they paid for They paid forty for the rights

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Speaker 1: directly to Milania, which are a lot for documentary rights,

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Speaker 1: and then they paid thirty five million for marketing.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so that's a whopping seventy five million dollars and

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Speaker 4: it got back seven million as.

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Speaker 3: The market only on truth Social Well.

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Speaker 4: I mean Amazon was responsible for marketing, not Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: So you're just saying what they spent.

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Speaker 1: Apparently, though, let me say this now, they did buy

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Speaker 1: a lot of seats. They bought seats in bulk, and

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Speaker 1: it is this is a weird thing. But it's the

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Speaker 1: highest selling opening weekend for documentary in ten years. But

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Speaker 1: it's still only sold seven million dollars.

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Speaker 4: Well, how many documentaries have a seventy five million dollar

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Speaker 4: price tag, so it's not really apples apples one two.

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Speaker 4: I think the point here for those who might be

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Speaker 4: having a slower day is that they may have spent

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Speaker 4: seventy five million dollars as an investment into Blue Origin.

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Speaker 4: I think one other thing that was brought to our attention,

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Speaker 4: and I should have pulled this headline for you, Nick,

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Speaker 4: but I didn't. Washington Posts, in the midst of this

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Speaker 4: seventy five million dollar Amazon spend just laid off their

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Speaker 4: entire sports department.

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Speaker 2: They just laid off.

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Speaker 4: I have a friend of mine who was laid off

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Speaker 4: from Amazon just a couple of days ago. So Amazon

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Speaker 4: has money to spend on Milanya, but they don't have

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Speaker 4: money to spend on keeping their employees or at the

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Speaker 4: Washington Post, which as you all know, hopefully Jeff Bezos

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Speaker 4: now owns.

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Speaker 5: And keep in mind that there have been issues with

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Speaker 5: Amazon even before this, labor issues that have been going

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Speaker 5: on for a long time. And you know, at some

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Speaker 5: point we've got to unravel ourselves from these companies that

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Speaker 5: just don't respect our communities, you know, and I know

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Speaker 5: Amazon is a hard one because everybody is into convenience.

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Speaker 2: But nevertheless, such as we've done.

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Speaker 5: Target, we have to show these CEOs and these companies

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Speaker 5: that we're not just gonna let you take our money

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Speaker 5: and then mistreat our communities and our people on the

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Speaker 5: backside or on the front side.

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Speaker 3: Really yeah, yeah, you know, to me, God, we didn't

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Speaker 3: acknowledge it, the leadership you've taken and help you move

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Speaker 3: our community away from dependency on you know, on Target

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Speaker 3: accepting of course Bacari, the online ordering of your wife's line. Right.

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Speaker 3: But the truth is is for those of us who

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Speaker 3: may draw conclusion, and it's because of the loss of money,

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Speaker 3: the you know, the you know, just sort of bleeding

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Speaker 3: money away from from companies. This man, the wealthiest in

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Speaker 3: the world. He could probably keep every one of these

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Speaker 3: enterprises going. All two hundred of those employees at the

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Speaker 3: Washington Post had just got the notice, the fact that

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Speaker 3: he just set, you know, close nearly seventy brick and

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Speaker 3: mortar stores, these Amazon stops and Amazon stores around the

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Speaker 3: country and only announced it last month. At the end

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Speaker 3: of last month, these people lost their jobs February one,

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Speaker 3: the start of Black History Month. So no notice, no respect,

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Speaker 3: no respect for workers' rights, no concern for what happens

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Speaker 3: to regular, everyday people who are slaving for him to

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Speaker 3: buy Italy for a weekend or whatever it is that

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Speaker 3: he chooses to spend his you know, his money on.

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Speaker 3: I just hate the fact that the disrespect is just

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Speaker 3: so obvious, it's so in our face, and it comes

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Speaker 3: without apology. The grift is loud and clear for everybody

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Speaker 3: to see.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, listen, they spent seventy five million dollars

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Speaker 1: on the film Malania, paying that to Donald Trump and

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Speaker 1: his family to curry favor for defense contracts. Today, just

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Speaker 1: as we're taping this, there is a reporter, Lizzie Johnson,

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Speaker 1: who is actually in Kiev in a war zone, and

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Speaker 1: she was laid off as we are writing this live

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Speaker 1: from a war zone. Let's think about that.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy.

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Speaker 1: Uh, you know, Tamika, I love you to death. We

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Speaker 1: don't have a good track record over the past seven

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Speaker 1: days with our guest hosts and our guests on the show.

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Speaker 1: But we love Georgia Ford, we love Don Lemmon. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you have to laugh not to cry. But both of

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Speaker 1: them found themselves in the peril and the and the

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Speaker 1: bullseye of the Department of Justice for some utter bullshit.

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Speaker 1: And we hope and we pray that bullshit doesn't befollow

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Speaker 1: anybody that we love or door like it did Don

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Speaker 1: Lemon or Georgia Ford. Uh, talk about this for a minute.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to let he says that to say.

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Speaker 5: By the way, I'm just trying to think to jail

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Speaker 5: right he I was first.

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Speaker 3: I was so said, they tried to get me to girls.

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Speaker 5: You know, at some point it becomes a badger out here,

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Speaker 5: like you.

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Speaker 1: Know, but can I ask you a question about it,

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Speaker 1: like can you talk about that? I mean, we don't

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Speaker 1: really have a clip during this period or graphic per se,

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Speaker 1: but I did think it was necessary. And Andrew actually

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Speaker 1: brought this up in our meeting, it was necessary to

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Speaker 1: talk about it, but talk about the sacrifice briefly that

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Speaker 1: it takes to be on the front lines of the movements,

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Speaker 1: because people say, oh, I want to be a part

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Speaker 1: of it, but they don't understand the sacrifice on family.

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Speaker 1: Talk about that brief you know.

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Speaker 5: What, It kind of made me a little emotional just now,

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Speaker 5: just because I was trying to take myself back to

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Speaker 5: those moments where I have been arrested and I have claustophobia.

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Speaker 5: You know, being in a patty wagon is not something

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Speaker 5: that I ever want to do.

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Speaker 2: And if you know anything about me, some of the

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Speaker 2: folks who've been in the paddywagon with me, when they

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Speaker 2: put you between where.

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Speaker 5: You're on one side of a little I don't know

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Speaker 5: what that divider is, which makes it even the partition,

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Speaker 5: which makes it tighter, and then they close a game

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Speaker 5: and then they closed the door. The folks who've been

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Speaker 5: in there with me have had to help sing me through,

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Speaker 5: you know, help get me through that experience, because it's

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Speaker 5: not something that I ever wanted to do to myself,

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Speaker 5: but I've had to in order to really be a

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Speaker 5: part of the sacrifice that it takes to bring awareness

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Speaker 5: to certain causes. And when I was watching the video

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Speaker 5: of Georgia for and the way that DEA offices, which

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Speaker 5: I meant to call you, Angela and say, help me

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Speaker 5: understand that, because I've not ever witnessed DEA agents going

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Speaker 5: to fulfill a warrant about this issue, Like, it just

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Speaker 5: didn't make sense to me. I'm from the hood. When

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Speaker 5: DEA agents show up. Somebody was killed, you know what

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Speaker 5: I'm saying. It was drugs somebody, right, it's something big

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Speaker 5: has happened. And watching the experience of what was going

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Speaker 5: on in her home then her daughter speaking afterwards, it

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Speaker 5: traumatized me so much because even when my family knows

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Speaker 5: that I'm going out there and they aware I've made

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Speaker 5: everyone aware of what's happening, they still are traumatized every

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Speaker 5: single time because you never know what can happen once

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Speaker 5: a person is put into police custody. And so I

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Speaker 5: felt really for her, and of course for Don. I know,

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Speaker 5: Don Lemon in his good suit did not need to

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Speaker 5: be in the back of a police cargo to be

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Speaker 5: in a precinct, you know, or wherever they were overnight,

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Speaker 5: and it's just unfortunate. And I think the last thing

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Speaker 5: I'll say, is that what it really did was crystallized

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Speaker 5: for me how dangerous this moment is. That even though

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Speaker 5: the killing of Renee Good is terrible, terrible, the killing

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Speaker 5: of Keith Porter and the names go on.

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Speaker 2: Alex pretty is terrible.

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Speaker 5: And then when you add and compound the issue of

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Speaker 5: journalists being arrested that are trying to tell the stories,

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Speaker 5: we know that we have entered the real, real phases

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Speaker 5: of fascism in this country.

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Speaker 2: And I just hope everybody.

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Speaker 3: Is paying attention.

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Speaker 1: That's real.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing to me.

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Speaker 4: Next time you hold your mic up, just hold the

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Speaker 4: mic part up so it's still out there. You go,

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Speaker 4: and then Bokar, you're still in the middle of your clips.

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Speaker 4: I just want to remind you took a significant detour.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna cut to mik Off. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what you think over here, but were gonna keep it

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Speaker 1: moving because because because one of the other things that

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Speaker 1: has been going on for the past week is the

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Speaker 1: release of the Epstein files, they finally got around there

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Speaker 1: releasing the Epstein files. Ironically enough, they released a lot

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Speaker 1: of pictures, they released a lot of emails. Did this

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Speaker 1: man ever text anything? I mean, he emailed like he texted,

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Speaker 1: like we text. It was kind of wild to see.

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Speaker 1: Some of the things that came out, though, were mind boggling,

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Speaker 1: and they actually released some things about Donald Trump. He's

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Speaker 1: mentioned over a thousand times that they then went back

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Speaker 1: and tried to pull back, but they couldn't. Somebody else

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Speaker 1: that was mentioned was Bill Gates. Listen to this clip

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Speaker 1: about Melinda French Gates and some of the things she

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Speaker 1: went through allegedly with her husband, Bill Gates, who we

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Speaker 1: all know.

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Speaker 9: The emails in the files suggest that Bill Gates had

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Speaker 9: additional affairs, and that he tried to get me dedication

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Speaker 9: to treat a sexually transmitted infection, and that he was

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Speaker 9: going to give you the medicine without you knowing. His

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Speaker 9: representative has said all of this is false. It is

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Speaker 9: not on you to have to respond to the details

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Speaker 9: of that alleged behavior. But I wonder what your dominant

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Speaker 9: emotion is when you read these news articles with these details.

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Speaker 10: Sad just unbelievable sadness. Unbelievable sadness.

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Speaker 11: Right, and again I'm able to take my own sadness

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Speaker 11: those young girls and say, my god, how did they

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Speaker 11: how did that happen to those girls, right, And so

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Speaker 11: for me, it's just sadness. Sadness for you know, I've left,

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Speaker 11: I had, I left my marriage, I had to leave

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Speaker 11: my marriage. I wanted to leave my marriage.

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Speaker 10: And so it's just sad. That's the truth, right, And

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Speaker 10: it's kind of like, uh, at least for me, I've.

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Speaker 11: Been able to move on in life. And I hope

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Speaker 11: there's some justice for those now women. Right we see

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Speaker 11: them standing up in front of microphones in DC. What

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Speaker 11: they went through is just unimaginable.

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Speaker 12: I think.

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Speaker 1: Angela T. Andrew, I mean what I like the way

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Speaker 1: that the first of all that question came from PBS,

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Speaker 1: which I thought in itself was bold. Second, I love

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Speaker 1: the way she framed it by saying dominant emotion. What

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Speaker 1: do you think about seeing some of these Epstein files

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Speaker 1: with the most powerful men in the world even talking

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Speaker 1: to him about getting antibiotics for std STI.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this one, this is clearly a world that

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Speaker 3: we don't know about like that does this this? I

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Speaker 3: mean when you look at the the scale, the size,

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Speaker 3: the impact of the men from the highest individuals in

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Speaker 3: banking and education and politics, finance, shit, you know, global royalty.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this man had a reach that I mean,

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Speaker 3: I just again, it's clearly a world that we're not

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Speaker 3: necessarily privy to. You mentioned the number of mentions Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump had in these emails. It is worth note that

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Speaker 3: his name, aside from Epstein itself, is the second highest

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Speaker 3: set of mentions in this second release of three million documents. Again,

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Speaker 3: I understand the association that you can be mentioned and

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Speaker 3: there not be any criminal liability connected to you. But

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Speaker 3: also in some ways, you know, you get to uh

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Speaker 3: measure measure me by what you know, what I do,

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Speaker 3: what I've done. This man is clearly proven. He's a criminal.

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Speaker 3: He's clearly proven, and courts have agreed that he has

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Speaker 3: sexually assaulted whomen and certainly have found him liable for

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Speaker 3: having done so in the further slandering of these individuals.

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Speaker 3: But the I'm still upset at the fact that what

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Speaker 3: we have now is only half of the government's total

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Speaker 3: collected two minutes, and if we got privy to this much,

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Speaker 3: the carelessness by which they released the names of previously unknown,

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Speaker 3: undisclosed victims to this heinous set of crimes, the fact

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Speaker 3: that they took better care to blackout Trump's names and

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Speaker 3: Trump's friends than they did the women who were the

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Speaker 3: girls at the time, kids who were victimized here. I mean,

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Speaker 3: the Justice Department had one job after that legislation passed,

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Speaker 3: and it was to protect the victims. And they and

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Speaker 3: they did everything but protect the victims. One of those victims,

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Speaker 3: who was previously unknown, wrote to them, please delete my name,

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Speaker 3: Please delete my name. I mean, this is I don't

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Speaker 3: know if you can take action. I know we have

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Speaker 3: two lawyers to me. I gonna know if you want to,

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Speaker 3: but I play one in the streets. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if there is a the ability to sue the federal government,

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Speaker 3: but what they've done. But God knows, those people deserve

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Speaker 3: to be able to get some modicum of justice or

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Speaker 3: reckoning for their full out disrespect of what they've gone

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Speaker 3: through from frankly learning it to the point where we're

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Speaker 3: at right now, this has been a continuing travesty.

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Speaker 1: Look, they took care to try to redact and bring

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Speaker 1: and put bring back some of the things they put

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Speaker 1: out about Donald Trump without any care for the victims

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Speaker 1: in this matter. That's how Gloria already talking about that recently.

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Speaker 1: But those victims have had courage, they're speaking with courage.

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Speaker 1: Somebody else who's been speaking with courage. We just heard

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Speaker 1: testimony from Aliah Rochman, who I just think was so powerful.

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Speaker 1: She was a disabled Minnesota excuse me, Minneapolis, Minnesota resident.

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Speaker 1: We saw her being detained pull out her car on

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Speaker 1: a way to a doctor's appointment by ice. She testified

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Speaker 1: on the heel. And as we bring this Fyisa moment

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Speaker 1: in our show to a close, we have one more

440
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 1: comment after this. I wanted to play this just so

441
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: we could talk about some of the things we're seeing

442
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: around us.

443
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 13: On January thirteenth, on the way to my thirty ninth

444
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 13: appointment at Hennepin County's Traumatic Brain Injury Center, I encountered

445
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 13: a traffic jam caused by ice vehicles and no signs

446
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 13: indicating how to get around it. I had not wanted

447
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 13: to pull into a blocked, chaotic intersection, but verbally agreed

448
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 13: to do so and rolled down my window after an

449
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 13: agent yelled.

450
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 3: Move, I will break your effing window his first instruction.

451
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 13: Agents on all sides of my vehicle yelled conflicting threats

452
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 13: and instructions that I could not process while watching for pedestrians.

453
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 13: Then the glass of the passenger side window flew across

454
00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 13: my face. I yelled, I'm disabled at the hands grabbing

455
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 13: at me, and an agent said too late. I felt

456
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 13: immersed in a pattern, and I thought of Genoa Donald,

457
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 13: an autistic black man killed by police during a traffic

458
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 13: stop in twenty twenty one. I remembered mister Siberio Gonzalez,

459
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 13: who was killed by ice in his vehicle last year.

460
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 13: An agent pulled a large combat knife in front of

461
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 13: my face, which I thought was for cutting me and

462
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 13: later learned was used to cut off my seat belt.

463
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 13: Shooting pain went through my head, neck and wrists. When

464
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 13: I hit the ground face first and people leaned on

465
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 13: my back, I felt the pattern, and I thought of

466
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 13: mister George Floyd, who was killed four blocks away. I

467
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 13: was carried face down through the street by my cuffed

468
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 13: arms and legs while yelling that I had a brain

469
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 13: injury and was disabled. I now cannot lift my arms normally.

470
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 13: I was never asked for ID, never told I was

471
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 13: under arrest, never read my riots, and never charged with

472
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 13: a crime. Approaching the Whipple Center, I saw black and

473
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 13: brown bodies shackled together, chained together, being marched by yelling agents. Outdoors,

474
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 13: I continue to hear the word bodies, because that is

475
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 13: how agents refer to us.

476
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: I just wanted to play it just because of the

477
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 1: I just I sometimes I just felt the emotion and

478
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: the volume in her voice.

479
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, Angie, her voice is chilling, and I think

480
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 4: part of the reason why it's chilling is because you

481
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 4: can tell that she's speaking so powerfully through her fears.

482
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 4: I want to let the audience know that. In addition

483
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 4: to Alia Rahman, Renee Goods to Brothers also testified this

484
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 4: is about trying to find some way to hold ICE accountable,

485
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 4: CBP accountable, which, again, as we said on multiple shows,

486
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 4: has no place in Minnesota, way outside of their jurisdiction,

487
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 4: given it's not a border and a port of entry

488
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 4: in that regard for this country. I will just also

489
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 4: say that Tom Holman has said that they are going

490
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 4: to draw down seven hundred ICE agents from the streets

491
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 4: of Minnesota, and I think the challenge for many is

492
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 4: it appears that only about one hundred and fifty.

493
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 2: Are roaming at any given time.

494
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 4: So you're talking about drawing down numbers that for the

495
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 4: most part, people haven't seen all at once, and so

496
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 4: I wonder what impact it will actually have.

497
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 2: But this is not light.

498
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 4: I mean, even when we were just there Tamika, we

499
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 4: had security to every door.

500
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 2: We wouldn't leave and go to the store separately.

501
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 4: We were like, we're gonna be from point to point

502
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,239
Speaker 4: and back to the airport. And you know, it's just

503
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 4: there are so many people in Minnesota other parts of

504
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 4: the country that can't do that, that have to make

505
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 4: calculated decisions every day about going to school, about going

506
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 4: to work, about going to the grocery store. You know,

507
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 4: things that are liberties that we shouldn't have to talk

508
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 4: about taking for granted because they just are ours that

509
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 4: in this day and age of terror, they would rather

510
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 4: people live in this type of fear just for power's sake.

511
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 4: And it's not the good kind of power's the abuse

512
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 4: of power anyway.

513
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, And now that they're pulling the seven hundred agents,

514
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 5: if you will, I really don't like calling them agents.

515
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 5: But now that they're pulling the vigilant vigilantes, the seven

516
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 5: hundred of them, where are they going. When you talk

517
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 5: about people being in their homes and afraid to come out,

518
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 5: that's the same thing that's happening in Portland. I got

519
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 5: a report from a young lady who's an activist there.

520
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 5: People are locked in their homes, afraid to go to work,

521
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 5: afraid to go to school. And so these seven hundred

522
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 5: agents aren't going back home. They're going somewhere, and we've

523
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 5: got to, you know, keep our eyes open. But I

524
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 5: know one thing I saw is that they haven't received

525
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 5: the fifty thousand dollars that they were promised to sign

526
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 5: on to ICE. In fact, the contract, our sister Elizabeth

527
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 5: was laying it out that the contract actually says you

528
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 5: get ten thousand dollars per year over five years, and

529
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 5: if for some reason you have to separate from ICE,

530
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 5: you got to pay back the original money or whatever

531
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,959
Speaker 5: money you've already received. And they play these games with people,

532
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 5: and I don't understand for the life of me, why

533
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 5: do people still believe them when they lie?

534
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 3: They you lie, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I talk of

535
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 3: that to me. I saw that they they uh with

536
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 3: these federal that we were talking about the recruitment. I

537
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 3: think that's what you referring to, the fifty thousand bonus

538
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 3: that is being offered for the recruitment. I just noticed

539
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 3: now this morning that they're now ICE is now running

540
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 3: ads talking about this is the work that ICE does,

541
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 3: and it's this real slick you know, Madison Avenue, and

542
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 3: you know, talking about this is the real work we do.

543
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 3: We're locking up criminals. We're da da da, And I'm like, nah,

544
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 3: you're trying to psych us out, like we're not seeing

545
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: what you actually do. We have watched for weeks, for

546
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 3: months now, the job that Ice does, and ain't nobody

547
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 3: making it up. We've heard your words. We see how

548
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 3: you treat women. We see how you treat people with disabilities,

549
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 3: and pregnant folks and innocent men by standers who are

550
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 3: simply trying to help the women up who you have assaulted,

551
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 3: and then they find themselves dead, lying in the street,

552
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 3: a mother and father without their child, right co workers

553
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 3: without fellow you know, workers, people with bright futures that

554
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 3: are snuffed out. You don't have to you don't. We

555
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 3: don't need your slick ass to tell us what you do.

556
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 3: We have eyes. We've been listening, we've been watching, and

557
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 3: we know the kind of terror that you can rain

558
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,239
Speaker 3: down on our you know, on our communities. You know

559
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 3: the question around what next, y'all. It's been rumored that

560
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 3: Ohio is the next destination, and part of that has

561
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 3: to do with the fact that outside of the state

562
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 3: of Florida, frankly, I think between them in Massachusetts that

563
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 3: they've got we got the largest next concentration of Haitians.

564
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 3: The government tried to remove the temporary protective status much

565
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 3: of us know it as GPS from Haitians last week,

566
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 3: and a judge overnight said no, you can't make these

567
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 3: folks out of compliance and ship them off the next day,

568
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 3: no notice on And so far we don't know it's

569
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 3: still going to make his way through the court system

570
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,479
Speaker 3: that there may be another judge who may you know,

571
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 3: reverse that ruling. But we just got to keep our

572
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 3: eyes wide open because in spite of all the terror

573
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 3: that's been raining down on those folks, these people are

574
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 3: still showing these block captains and their neighbors are still

575
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 3: showing up, delivering meals, walking kids and immigrants to to

576
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 3: local schools and so on and so forth. So their

577
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 3: courage and their bravery just stands to be you know,

578
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: just noted again, it's not it's not easy. I was

579
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 3: exhausted and we were, like Angela said it, going point

580
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 3: to point. But you know, weigh in the chairs of

581
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 3: my family were like, do you really need to be

582
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 3: there right now, you know, against what these people are

583
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 3: doing putting their bodies in the way, and by the way,

584
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 3: there is no innocent way. There is no safe way

585
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 3: of putting your body. And between victims and the aggressor,

586
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 3: there is no safe way because you can die just

587
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: helping a woman up.

588
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 5: And shout out to you for providing relief also on

589
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 5: the ground. I don't know if that was stated, but

590
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 5: there was, you know, an assistant Dwana Thompson helped to

591
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 5: coordinate real relief and resources for the community. So you

592
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 5: didn't just show up, but you showed up with something

593
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 5: in the hand to help the people.

594
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: Indeed, you know, Angela was really big on not taking

595
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: from the community, making sure we give I want to

596
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: get to this next question, Tamiko. One of the things

597
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: that I've always I think I said it on this

598
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: show till I was bluing the faces, that nothing happens

599
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: in a vacuum. I say that literally every episode. The

600
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: one Big Beautiful Bill we talked about that, we railed

601
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: about that this time last year. That's the reason that

602
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: the ICE still has its funding running ads. The fact

603
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: that white people were killed in the middle of the

604
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: street is the reason that we're having this testimony and

605
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: all those things, all those you know, Tom Herman pulling

606
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: people out the street. There are other things that are

607
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: going on as well around us, because nothing happens in

608
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: a vaccine. I do want to go right now to

609
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: a quick question. We're going to throw an audience question

610
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: up here, but it's from Rashad Robinson because I think

611
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: it fits in perfectly before we get to our guests,

612
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: which is going to go down a path that Angela

613
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: likes to talk about a lot, which is the role

614
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: of religiosity in our society today. But let's listen to

615
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: Rashad's question and then cham in on the other side.

616
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 7: Hey, y'all, this is Rashad Robinson, civil rights leader, strategist activists.

617
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit of strategy with

618
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: you all.

619
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 7: Bill Ackman, the anti DEI activist and investor. You know,

620
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 7: Bill makes his money by investing other people's money, kind

621
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 7: of simply put endowments, pensions, rich people's money, and so

622
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 7: he invests that money. Oftentimes when he gets involved those

623
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 7: companies restructure, they do all sorts of things so that

624
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 7: the folks at the top make a lot more money.

625
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 7: But I'm here to actually talk about Bill Ackman giving

626
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 7: ten thousand dollars to Jonathan Ross. Jonathan Ross is the

627
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 7: ice agent that shot and killed Renee Good in Minneapolis

628
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 7: then called her a bitch. Right, if those are the

629
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 7: type of people that Bill Ackman wants to give money to,

630
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 7: he has every right. But we have every right to

631
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 7: ask ourselves to ask the institutions we're associated with, where

632
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 7: they be the colleges with endowments, whether they be the

633
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 7: places we work or are associated with that have pensions,

634
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 7: the foundations that we may be connected to, do we

635
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 7: allow Bill Ackman to invest our money. Those are the

636
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 7: questions we should be asking this moment. Bill Ackman's anti

637
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 7: DEI work was all about closing the door to education opportunities,

638
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,959
Speaker 7: closing the door to government contrast closing the door to

639
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 7: job opportunities. It was about a strategy that profiteers engage

640
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 7: in with making sure that some people can have opportunities

641
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 7: to succeed, while privilege and unearned opportunity becomes the reward

642
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 7: structure for those that don't deserve it. That is part

643
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 7: of the strategy behind what Bill Ackman does is doing,

644
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 7: and it's absolutely connected behind putting money behind this ice

645
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 7: agent and what he's done. He has a right to

646
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 7: do what he is doing, but we have a responsibility

647
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 7: to not mistake the visibility, the virility of this story,

648
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 7: the presence of this story, for the power to actually

649
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 7: do something about it. So we've got an opportunity to

650
00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 7: something about it, and we should take it.

651
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,959
Speaker 1: Can I chime in on this real quick, guys, just

652
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: on the Bill Ackman piece, because Bill Ackman and Elon

653
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: Musk have this really weird, i would say, perverse outlook

654
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 1: on society and that the browning of America is something

655
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: that terrifies them. It's a world outlook that shows a

656
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 1: level of fear and intimidation by of things such as diversity,

657
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: because they view people of diverse backgrounds as somehow not

658
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: earning it. And then they go from a level of

659
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: not earning it because of the color of their skin

660
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 1: to the fact that they're taking something from us that

661
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,439
Speaker 1: would otherwise be ours, which on its face is how

662
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: I somewhat define white supremacy, right. And I look at

663
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 1: Elon Musk and Bill Ackman's kind of cut from the

664
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: same cloth. They come from pretty much the same cultural community,

665
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: cultural background, and they also are people who were born

666
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: on third base and believe they hit a home run.

667
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: And so the fascinating part about talking about them is Rashad,

668
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: who I think is I believe that we all play

669
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: our separate roles. Some people are in the streets, some

670
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: people are in boardrooms. But everybody's necessary. You need it,

671
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: Julian Bond, and you needed Stokely Carmichael, right. We need

672
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: to make a Mallory and we need Rashad Robinson right,

673
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: and Ben Crump, and I think it's all necessary. Rashad

674
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: does amazing work and highlighted something so important because we

675
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 1: have these institutions, we have some places of privilege and

676
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: we just acquiesce to the norms, and we have these

677
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: institutions where we have control, and we're still giving Bill

678
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: Ackman our money. And it makes no actual sense to

679
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: me for someone who goes and gets these little returns

680
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: plays ball in these rooms. And then there was a

681
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: person who shot a woman in the face, and your

682
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: political instincts are inclined to say, man, let me, let

683
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: me rte that dude a ten thousand dollars check. So

684
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: it just shows you the level of humanity. And my

685
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: biggest fear is that Bill Ackman will be successful, Steven

686
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: Miller will be success, Elon Musk will be successful. And

687
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: the classes that we see attaining higher education, the boardrooms

688
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: that we see, the people teaching our children, our nurses,

689
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: our doctors, our professionals are going to be whiter. And

690
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: that's what they want.

691
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 3: There's no doubt about it. And by the way, Elon

692
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 3: Musk's worldview is carved out of the fact that the

693
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 3: man was raised in aparthe in South Africa. He was

694
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 3: raised in a society where black people were written into

695
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 3: the law, in every rule spoken and unspoken, written and

696
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 3: unwritten of society where he didn't have to compete with blacks.

697
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 3: And then when the competition started, now it's a problem.

698
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: Now you can't.

699
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 3: You know, y'all got to go somewhere. I just want

700
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 3: to double down on this one point, which is we've

701
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 3: got elected officials black and otherwise, and folks who sympathize,

702
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 3: who serve on city council's, county boards, are mayors all

703
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 3: across the entire United States. All of your pension money,

704
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 3: your citizens' retirement money, the workers for government are being

705
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 3: managed by somebody. And I would advise that you'd be

706
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 3: asking you who you hire and on contract for your

707
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 3: city governments and your city employees and your government employees

708
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 3: to make sure that there is no business being done

709
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 3: with Bill Ackman. The Republicans do it all the time

710
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 3: when they take their money out and they say it

711
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 3: can't be used for this, and can't be used for that,

712
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 3: and no anti semitism, and this is that in the

713
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,280
Speaker 3: third and all that is whatever. But now you also

714
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 3: sit at the place of opportunity where you can introduce

715
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 3: components of legislation writers to bills that say we're not

716
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 3: doing business with this man, and if you are divesting.

717
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: Out, listen. I think that's a good point, you know.

718
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 1: One of the things that I wanted to do was

719
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: talk about the fact that we're in these rooms and

720
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: talk about the fact that sometimes we need to bring

721
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: people in the folk, people that are doing work on

722
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 1: other sides, people that may have their ear when they're

723
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: having this conversation, which kind of folds into a larger

724
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: conversation that we've had on the show. One larger conversation

725
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: I want to have, particularly with you here, Tamika, is

726
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: what role do wan white males play? What role do

727
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: white male evangelicals play? One of the blessings we have

728
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: about this show is we get to talk about it,

729
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 1: all right, And so we have Reverend Shank here joining

730
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: us on the show. We're going to bring them in.

731
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: Its kind of like a fifth will.

732
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 12: Nobody knows.

733
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: This is the way I wanted to introduce you, Reverend.

734
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: We found a video of you actually testifying, and I

735
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: wanted to play that clip right here. It's testifying to

736
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: Congress about your work influencing the Supreme Court of these

737
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: United States of America. And then I got a question

738
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: about Clarence Thomas on the other side. I'm just joking,

739
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:41,720
Speaker 1: go ahead and rote a clip.

740
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 12: I am here to present facts as I know of

741
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 12: them about Operation Higher Court, a Christian mission that I

742
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 12: directed as part of Faith into Action for twenty years

743
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 12: to bolster conservative Supreme Court justices in the views they

744
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 12: already held. Operation Higher Court involved my recruitment of wealthy

745
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 12: donors as stealth missionaries who befriended justices that shared our

746
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 12: conservative social and religious sensibilities. In this way, I aimed

747
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:21,280
Speaker 12: to show these justices that Americans supported them and thanked

748
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 12: God for their presence on the Court and the opinions

749
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 12: they rendered. Our overarching goals were to gain insights into

750
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 12: the conservative justices thinking and to shore up their resolve

751
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 12: to render solid, unapologetic opinions, particularly against abortion. I called

752
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 12: this our ministry of emboldenment. I believe we pushed the

753
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 12: boundaries of Christian ethics and compromised the High Court's promise

754
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 12: to administer equal justice. But I'm also conscious we were

755
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 12: never admonished for the type of work our missionaries did.

756
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 12: To the contrary. In one instance, Justice Thomas commended me,

757
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 12: saying something like, keep up what you're doing. It's making

758
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 12: a difference.

759
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: So the right Reverend Robert Shank, did I pronounce your

760
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: last name correctly?

761
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 12: Yes? But sometimes I am the wrong reverence, And that's

762
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 12: what that was all.

763
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: About, I understand. So I just wanted to start the

764
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 1: conversation with I think the two most important words in

765
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: the English language, other words, thank you, And then I

766
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: nearly said enough. So thank you for your time, and

767
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: thank you for the work that you are now doing.

768
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: Ain't the work you used to do, but thank you

769
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: for the work that you're now doing. What role do

770
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: white male evangelicals play in changing culture, changing society? We

771
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: talked about ice, we talked about jelly, roll earlier, and

772
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: sometimes you see a muted voice. I think it all

773
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: ties in together. What can we expect, what should we expect?

774
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 1: And what are we not seeing?

775
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 12: Well, what we're not saying is some of the change

776
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 12: that's happening right now, and a lot of it because

777
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 12: of Minneapolis. I just read a report from Christianity Today,

778
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 12: which has historically been the journal of record for American

779
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 12: white evangelicals, and there's a lot of a lot of

780
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 12: disruption in the in the positions of evangelicals in Minnesota

781
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 12: right now because of what they're seeing playing out in

782
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 12: the streets. H you know, I hate to say it,

783
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 12: but you asked about, you know, white evangelicals. I think

784
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 12: white males in general get a little more attention from

785
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 12: white evangelical leader's keen sense of the obvious. They are

786
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 12: been happening for a long time. But the reason I

787
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 12: mention it is because, of course, the killing of Alex

788
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 12: pretty as compared to even the killing of Renee Good.

789
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 12: Renee Good was white, she would normally command attention, but

790
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 12: discounted by the fact that she's gay. That she was gay.

791
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 12: So but here we go, white male of a certain

792
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 12: age and a gun owner gets the attention that others

793
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 12: don't get, so I think that's part of the reason,

794
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 12: but not the whole reason. I think a fair number

795
00:42:55,600 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 12: of white evangelical leaders are now feeling uncomfortfter bowl with

796
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 12: the violence, the threats, with the behavior after the shootings,

797
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 12: with the abduction of children and their imprisonment in cages.

798
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 12: It's starting to trouble the conscience. Not enough to tip

799
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 12: the scales, not anywhere near, but it's changing. And I'm

800
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 12: sorry for such a long answer to your short question,

801
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 12: but I'll just add this. I do think it's critically

802
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 12: important now that white male evangelical leaders start airing their

803
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 12: conscience and their descent. And I know there are many

804
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 12: of them, but they are silenced by fear. But they

805
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 12: have to find their courage. And the reason they do

806
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 12: is because this administration will pay attention to that in

807
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 12: a way they won't pay attention to anyone else. They'll

808
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 12: write everybody else off. They're black, they're socialists, they're leftists,

809
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 12: they're communists, their nutcases. But suddenly, when when white males

810
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 12: like me start speaking. I know from my contacts in

811
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 12: the administration, I maintain friends who are working for Trump

812
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,280
Speaker 12: right now in the White House, and they will say

813
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 12: that got a little attention here. That bothered some people,

814
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 12: not for the right reasons, but it bothered them.

815
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 4: So if I could ask you, you know, there's a

816
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 4: conversion moment biblically speaking, where Saul is converted to Paul.

817
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 4: You're talking about finding your courage. I want to know

818
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 4: what helped you to find your courage. And in this

819
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 4: moment where you're talking about having friends in the White House,

820
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 4: knowing now what you understand to be their agenda, how

821
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 4: they whoo to move forward, how are you maintaining those friendships,

822
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 4: and how do you intend to help them to convert

823
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 4: from Saul to Paul.

824
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:12,439
Speaker 12: Yeah, well, thanks for framing it that way. I talk

825
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 12: about three conversions in my own life. My initial conversion

826
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 12: to the christ I saw in the Sermon on the Mount,

827
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 12: who blessed the poor, who blessed the forgotten, the margin lies,

828
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 12: the lonely, the grieving. Then in the eighties I was

829
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 12: converted to what I now call Ronald Reagan Republican religion,

830
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 12: which is distinctly different from Christianity. And I spent thirty

831
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 12: five years in that religious stream, doing the kind of

832
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 12: work and am now repenting from. Then I had a

833
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 12: third conversion reading the work of church leaders in nineteen

834
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 12: thirties Germany during the rise of Adolf Hitler and his

835
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 12: racial life dictatorship, and that was the first crack. There

836
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 12: were a few little, tiny threads before that, but it

837
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 12: was really confronting that history and seeing that what I

838
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 12: was engaged in for thirty years was identical to what

839
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 12: the Ivan Gaelic Schekerche, the Evangelical Church of Germany was

840
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 12: doing in that era. In fact, it would be evangelical

841
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 12: leaders who declared Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party a

842
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 12: gifted miracle from God. Well, I was seeing the same,

843
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 12: and so that was part of it. The other substantial

844
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 12: part of my third conversion out of that right wing

845
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 12: cult was my wife, who made a late in life

846
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 12: professional change from being an occupational therapist to a psychotherapist.

847
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 12: And when you're married to a psychotherapist, you can't escape

848
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 12: the therapy no matter how hard you try, and that

849
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 12: was a huge, huge help for me, and I would

850
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 12: enter my own period of therapy which helped me face

851
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 12: myself in a way I ever had and the realities

852
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 12: of what was going on around me. So that was

853
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 12: a lot of it. There was more. It was a

854
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 12: long and complex formula equation that got me to the

855
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 12: other side. But I'm so glad it did.

856
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 3: When you think about the dates. I was just trying

857
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 3: to help me understand some of the time periods of

858
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 3: your third conversion, just so I understand where where to

859
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 3: sort of place my question.

860
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 12: Well, it's been a kind of ten year progression for me.

861
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 12: Those versed cracks appeared in oh nine, ten, twenty ten.

862
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 12: It was particularly jarring when when I attended the eightieth

863
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 12: birthday party for the now late televangelist Pat Robertson, who's

864
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 12: built a right winging religious empire that continues to this moment,

865
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 12: and his guest of honor at this big banish where

866
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 12: virtually every e white evangelical luminary in this country was

867
00:48:55,040 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 12: in the ballroom celebrating with Pat, and his guest of

868
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 12: honor in twenty eleven was none other than Donald Trump,

869
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 12: And I was shocked by that. I didn't think of

870
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 12: Trump as part of our our culture. In fact, when

871
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:16,439
Speaker 12: I was in Bible.

872
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 14: Yes exactly, and when I was in Bible College what

873
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 14: we call our seminaries to prepare for ministry way back

874
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 14: in the early eighties.

875
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 12: I was told that Donald Trump was the classic example

876
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 12: of everything it meant not to live that say Christian,

877
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 12: and that he makes a great sermon illustration for that.

878
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 12: And I had used him as that over the years.

879
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 12: But there he was at Pat's birthday party, and I

880
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 12: asked one of my colleagues, a name well known in

881
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 12: the white evangelical world, why is he here? And the

882
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 12: the answer was because he and Pattern now part of

883
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 12: the same billionaires club. Pat had just sold the Family Channel,

884
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 12: his family became billion airs in the process, and now

885
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 12: they were billionaire pals, and that was distressing to me.

886
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 12: And it would be at the twenty sixteen Republican National

887
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 12: Convention that I finally made the break left the movement. Theoretically,

888
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 12: it took me two more years to extract myself legally

889
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 12: and financially.

890
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 2: But weaky, I'm sorry. Can you say more about the

891
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 2: financial piece. You said to extract yourself financially to what

892
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 2: does that mean?

893
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 12: Yeah? Well, first, I was running an organization I had

894
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 12: spent thirty five years building, which had fifty thousand donors

895
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 12: spread across the United States, hundreds of churches. We were

896
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 12: raising millions, millions of dollars, and I had legal obligations,

897
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 12: and you know, I lose nothing by being candid and

898
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 12: completely honest these days, and that's what I was trying

899
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 12: to do in Minneapolis. But I wasn't. I wasn't fully

900
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 12: courageous all at once, and and I'm not even at

901
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 12: this moment. I was afraid of donor lawsuits. I was

902
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 12: afraid of contractors suing me. So I carefully deconstructed that operation.

903
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 12: It took two years to do it, and to safely

904
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 12: extract myself once I did, I left all of that behind,

905
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 12: every bit of it. For a little while I was

906
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 12: driving uber to pay my bills all the cost of it.

907
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:55,959
Speaker 2: That's right.

908
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 12: You know.

909
00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 3: I'm am appreciative of your transparency, even with us now

910
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 3: and our audience. And we didn't get to say welcome

911
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 3: home at the start of this interview, but but that's

912
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 3: something we say to our guests when when they make

913
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 3: themselves available to this community. I am. I work for

914
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 3: a long time on the other side of some of

915
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 3: your court work at People for the American Way, which

916
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 3: is also known as the House of Bork, because we

917
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 3: led the effort to defeat Robert Bork's nomination to the

918
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 3: to the High Court. So I understand that that space

919
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 3: very well, I am. I don't understand as well the

920
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 3: space of white evangelism, mostly because if we subscribe to

921
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 3: the same Jesus, the same God, the same scripture, and

922
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 3: I know scripture can be used creatively by whoever wills it,

923
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 3: but we miss each other at that intersection of what

924
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 3: scripture seems to say to white evangelicals and then what

925
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 3: it says in the Black tradition, the Christian faith, and

926
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 3: it absolutely shows up differently in our politics, certainly in

927
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 3: American and society and culture. I just wonder, on the

928
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 3: other side of this of of your evolution, where you

929
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 3: now where and how you now carry the message to

930
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 3: other white evangelicals around, how they see the lights come

931
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 3: to evolution, come to transition, because by and large we're

932
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 3: kind of we're kind of on the right track on

933
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 3: our side, and they're still fighting and stay on the

934
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 3: what we believe to be the right track. Yet a

935
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 3: lot of our brothers and sisters on in the Christian

936
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 3: evangelical side still tolerate outrageous forms of hate and terror

937
00:53:55,840 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 3: and cruelty by the administration and what their politics often produces.

938
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 3: How do you how do you sort of theorize the

939
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 3: best way to move other white male evangelicals closer to

940
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 3: the truth of the faith and away I think from

941
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 3: some of the cruelty in devastating, destructive politics of the

942
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 3: far right.

943
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 12: Well, it's not easy, although I did retain thousands of

944
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 12: just those sorts of folks on my social media platforms,

945
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 12: which I use as my pulpit these days, and I

946
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 12: remind them of their conversions, what drew them to Christ.

947
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 12: And you know, there's a passage in the New Testament

948
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 12: Book of Revelation where the resurrect at Christ is speaking

949
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 12: to the te from the heavenlys if you read it

950
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 12: that way, and he says, to a particular church in

951
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 12: a particular place, you're doing everything right, but I have

952
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 12: this one thing against you. You have left your first love.

953
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 12: So I try to remind evangelicals of their first love, Jesus,

954
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 12: who I regularly reintroduce as the dark complexed Middle Eastern

955
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 12: man of the Levant, who had very dark skin and

956
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 12: afro textured hair, wool hair exactly. And I put him

957
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 12: out there and I just let them sit with him,

958
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 12: and then I remind them of what he said. And

959
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:59,879
Speaker 12: I do get folks, small numbers, but regularly who come,

960
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 12: usually through a direct message because they're afraid to go

961
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 12: on the page, and they'll say, you know you've got

962
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 12: me on that, You've got me thinking, and yes, that

963
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 12: was the reason I gave my heart to Jesus all

964
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 12: those years ago. It's still small numbers. The other task

965
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 12: I have, which is the larger one, is to expose

966
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 12: this as not just un Christian, but anti Christian. So

967
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 12: I try to do that through my writing, through you know,

968
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 12: on social media platforms and elsewhere, and then in conversation

969
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 12: with leaders. I just invited a unabashed self identified Christian

970
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 12: nationalist leader he heads a small denomination in the United

971
00:56:55,680 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 12: States to a meeting with progressive leaders up in Boston

972
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 12: in two weeks. He accepted the invitation to a dialogue

973
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 12: with them. We'll see what happens. But I want to

974
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 12: do more and more of that. That's part of the

975
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 12: repair work. There's far more than that, and it's much

976
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 12: closer to people who have suffered because of what I did.

977
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 12: But that's some of the work that I that I

978
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 12: try to do.

979
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 3: Appreciate that.

980
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 5: Ramonshane, can I ask you, you know you talked about

981
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 5: some of these folks that you're in relationship with, and

982
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 5: how they have looking at all that's going on, and

983
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 5: particularly Minneapolis, they've changed, their hearts have changed in some ways.

984
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 5: Do you think that that means they're going to show

985
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 5: up at the polls differently? Are they going to vote

986
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 5: different are they talking about that or do you think

987
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 5: because you know, one of the challenges that I have

988
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 5: faced in working with white women, you know, I was

989
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 5: one of the leaders of the Women's March. I have

990
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 5: been on the of America organizing, marching with galvanizing thousands,

991
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 5: hundreds of thousands, millions of women, and oftentimes the numbers,

992
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 5: the math doesn't math. As we say that, you know,

993
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 5: they will say we're with you, We're with you, We're

994
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 5: with you. And then when we look at the numbers

995
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 5: after an election, it is very clear that some people

996
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 5: either weren't telling the truth or they definitely didn't go

997
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 5: and do the work at home of organizing not just

998
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 5: us out in the community, but being there to organize

999
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 5: their mothers, their aunts, their sisters, their friends, their you know,

1000
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 5: their family members. So how do you see this translating

1001
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 5: to as we are approaching the midterm elections.

1002
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's a great point and It reminds me of

1003
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 12: the work I have yet to do to organize white

1004
00:58:52,400 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 12: evangelicals of conscience as I call them, or dissenters. I'm

1005
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 12: hopeful that a fair number of them are troubled enough

1006
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 12: that they just simply won't vote. That they they'll just

1007
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 12: sit it out. Hoping they'll vote for a Democrat is

1008
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 12: probably too great of a leap of faith for me.

1009
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 12: But maybe they'll We'll take them sit at home. Well,

1010
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 12: they can stay home, and I think that's more likely

1011
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 12: what they'll do, and it would be a good choice.

1012
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 12: And I will be saying that to them. I'll say,

1013
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 12: if if you just can't, here's one way you can

1014
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 12: preserve your conscience in this sit it out. So that's possibility.

1015
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 12: I do know of some already who in the last

1016
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 12: election voted for a Democrat for the first time in

1017
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 12: their electoral lives. I voted for Joe Biden, first vote

1018
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 12: for a Democratic candidate in how many years was it?

1019
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 12: Because the last time I voted for a Democrat before

1020
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 12: Biden was nineteen seventy six, so it was a long time.

1021
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 12: Is that forty four at Carter's for Carter? Yeah, so

1022
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 12: it was forty four years and there are others. I'm

1023
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 12: not unique. I am not unique. There's a lot. I

1024
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 12: didn't vote for Trump either time. By the way, I

1025
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 12: voted for other Republican, for another Republican in twenty sixteen.

1026
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 4: I if I can ask you, Reverend, there was just

1027
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 4: an arrest several ors made of nine individuals who the

1028
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 4: Department of Justice is calling defendants on the other side

1029
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 4: of a protest at a church city church in fact

1030
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 4: in Saint Paul, Minnesota, where one of the pastors, David Easterwood,

1031
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 4: serves as an icefield director. And I'm curious to know

1032
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 4: if you think there's ever an appropriate time to protest

1033
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 4: in church one and two, if you think that journalists

1034
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 4: should be exempt from any type of criminal indictment for

1035
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 4: covering said protests, Well, I did it.

1036
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 12: I did it at the Washington National Cathedral back when

1037
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 12: I was a leader in the national pro life anti

1038
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 12: abortion movement. Wow, I confronted Bill Clinton in the sanctuary

1039
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 12: during a communion service, and I was applauded for that.

1040
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 12: I was made a hero in the conservative Christian world

1041
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 12: for my disruption of a communion service on Christmas Eve.

1042
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 12: By the way, on Christmas Eve, so I'd like to say,

1043
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 12: I did one better that these folks did on a

1044
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 12: comment Sunday morning, and I was made a hero for it.

1045
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 12: I'm reminding people of that. You want to denounce this.

1046
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 12: You applauded me when I did it, and that was

1047
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 12: I guess about nineteen ninety six ish something like that.

1048
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 12: Don't have to go back and records. But in any case,

1049
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 12: and ironically, the administration is using a law that we

1050
01:02:56,840 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 12: decried and that anti abortion activists and other white evangelical

1051
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 12: champions of religious liberty regularly denounce, and that is the

1052
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 12: Face Act, the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act,

1053
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 12: which we decried. We fought it in court, we raised

1054
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 12: tens of millions of dollars to oppose it, and now

1055
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 12: they're using it against Don Lemon, against the others. It's

1056
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 12: and I'm reminding my folks of that too, and hoping

1057
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 12: it will give some pause, say wait a minute, what

1058
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 12: what are we doing here? And incidentally, this is a

1059
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 12: family issue in the church, and you know family's routine

1060
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 12: disrupt one another's Thanksgiving dinners and Christmas celebrations with their differences,

1061
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 12: and that's what's happened here. So again it shows the

1062
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 12: hypocrisy that that I'm confronting my my.

1063
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 3: Family with got it, But Cary, I know we have

1064
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 3: to push. I did just want to ask this final

1065
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 3: question for me and that that's on Rev. Just sort

1066
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 3: of how in your in your most connected way, as you,

1067
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 3: as you as you consider how some of your former

1068
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 3: compadreis and maybe even still compadres might think about this,

1069
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:47,919
Speaker 3: but just the hierarchy of threat that white evangelical men

1070
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 3: sort of consider when considering their politics. So for instance,

1071
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 3: if if we, if they, if if the other side wins,

1072
01:04:57,920 --> 01:04:59,919
Speaker 3: and in there, if I'm them, the other side would

1073
01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 3: be Democrats. I guess what is is it? Is it

1074
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 3: that they're going to promote black people above us and

1075
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 3: our sons and our children. Is it that they're going

1076
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:14,479
Speaker 3: to make abortion free and available everywhere? Is it? Where

1077
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 3: do you when you get to the real crux of

1078
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 3: what barrier sits in the way of me being able

1079
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 3: to get over what coalition or alignment or agreement looks

1080
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 3: like with the other side. I mean, you can see

1081
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,880
Speaker 3: bodies strown in the streets, You can see protesters mishandled disrupted.

1082
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 3: You can see even women who are approaching abortion clinics

1083
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 3: be railed against and cried and insulted and made to

1084
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 3: feel in fear to watch children even put in cages.

1085
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 3: Because this isn't the first time the Trump administration has

1086
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 3: done that. They've done that before. But there's still these

1087
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 3: walls that exist that keep otherwise decent people from being

1088
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 3: able to make the leap to set godly. That just

1089
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 3: isn't right. And it is not just right because it

1090
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 3: happened to my wife. It's not right because it happened

1091
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 3: to another fellow family member of the human you know race,

1092
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 3: and it's indecent. What do I always try to think about,

1093
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 3: what's the thing that's keeping you? Is your fear of me?

1094
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 3: That big? Have you made me out to be that

1095
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 3: much of a threat? That that's keeping you from being

1096
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 3: a better human? But what is it? As you think

1097
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 3: about what the hierarchy of either threat or fear dislike,

1098
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 3: I don't even know what to call it because I

1099
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 3: don't know what it is.

1100
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:44,320
Speaker 12: Well, I think fear is the best or at least

1101
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 12: principle way of understanding of understanding it. And I don't

1102
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 12: want to beat Maudlin, and I don't want to turn

1103
01:06:55,520 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 12: your quality podcast into my confessional book, but I.

1104
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 1: Think it is yeah, we got the wine.

1105
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 14: Okay, okay, Well, no reason for you to associate in

1106
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 14: the first place.

1107
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 12: But you know, I'll confess that for thirty years I

1108
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 12: did business with fundraisers who created millions of messages that

1109
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 12: went out across the United States. And I was a small,

1110
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 12: a bit player. I would send out five to ten

1111
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 12: million communic case a year. Uh. Many of my friends

1112
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 12: that I kept company with in those days would send

1113
01:07:53,440 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 12: out hundreds of millions of messages, mostly connected to fundraising platforms.

1114
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:04,480
Speaker 12: And I'll describe those to you this way. In one

1115
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 12: exchange that I've thought about many times and I've written about,

1116
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 12: with one of my contracted fundraisers, he sat at a

1117
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 12: conference room table and he told me in nineteen he said, look,

1118
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 12: let me put it this way. The more fear and

1119
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:27,600
Speaker 12: the more anger you give me, the more money I

1120
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 12: will raise for you. You give me a lot of

1121
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:34,639
Speaker 12: fear and anger, I'll raise a lot of money for you.

1122
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 12: You give me a little fear and anger, I'll raise

1123
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,639
Speaker 12: a little bit of money for you. So you decide.

1124
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 12: But let me tell you this, he said. I want

1125
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 12: you to think of Helen. She lives on a rural

1126
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:50,559
Speaker 12: root in Kansas, her nearest neighbor is three miles away.

1127
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 12: Her husband's been dead for several years. She rarely ever

1128
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 12: sees her kids or her grandkids. They all live in

1129
01:08:56,840 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 12: other states. The biggest moment in her day is when

1130
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 12: she goes to her rural mailbox on the roadside, pulls

1131
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 12: out a letter from you, and reads through those eleven

1132
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 12: pages with multiple underlines and exclamation points. And when she's

1133
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 12: done reading, she is terrified of the world her children

1134
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 12: will inhabit. And you're going to tell her the only

1135
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:29,599
Speaker 12: way that she can solve that problem is to send

1136
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 12: your organization one hundred dollars, and you're going to get

1137
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 12: that hundred and probably two hundred. Every single time I

1138
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 12: fired him, I canceled, but I acquiesce just enough to

1139
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:53,400
Speaker 12: hire another group. Almost at that level, that's being done

1140
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 12: and has been done now for forty or fifty years.

1141
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 12: People have been shaped and formed in that year, and

1142
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 12: now they've taken the reins of government power, and they

1143
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:12,839
Speaker 12: are also afraid, but they're more cynical when they are afraid.

1144
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 12: But the people who are giving them that power and

1145
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:22,760
Speaker 12: that money are terrified of the world as they imagine it.

1146
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 12: And this has to do with what I call the

1147
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:30,880
Speaker 12: southernization of American evangelicalism, who were once the leaders in

1148
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:36,640
Speaker 12: the abolitionist movement. The first women's rights a conference was

1149
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 12: held at an evangelical church in Seneca Falls, New York

1150
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:43,759
Speaker 12: in what was that eighteen forty But in any case,

1151
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:51,280
Speaker 12: evangelicals were once the leaders of social progress and innovation.

1152
01:10:52,640 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 12: They were champions of minority rights, and they were overrun

1153
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 12: by the Southern churches that wanted to preserve the Confederacy,

1154
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 12: and they did it. Anybody wants to read some really

1155
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 12: revelatory work on that. Charles Reagan Wilson, American Southern historian,

1156
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 12: writes on the religion of the Lost Cause in a book,

1157
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:27,599
Speaker 12: his principal book, which is very readable, only about two

1158
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 12: hundred and fifty pages, Baptized in blood. It's really worth

1159
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:37,680
Speaker 12: reading it. It helps you to understand the white evangelical

1160
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 12: mind as it's been formed over the last one hundred

1161
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 12: and fifty years. Appreciate that.

1162
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:45,519
Speaker 3: Appreciate reverse.

1163
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:49,599
Speaker 1: I mean, I just first of all, I just kind

1164
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:51,760
Speaker 1: of want to want to wrap this up by where

1165
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 1: I began, which is to say thank you for coming on,

1166
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:56,080
Speaker 1: thank you for your journey, thank you for sharing your

1167
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:58,600
Speaker 1: journey and thank you for being what we what I

1168
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 1: believe to be the most powerful thing can be in

1169
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:02,920
Speaker 1: this country, which is an example. So I think we

1170
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:05,519
Speaker 1: all say on this show Native Lampard, I'm the newest

1171
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:07,480
Speaker 1: member here, but welcome.

1172
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:13,680
Speaker 12: Home, welcome, welcome home. We feel very undeserving of that.

1173
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:17,680
Speaker 2: Thank you, praying for you, praying for you, Robert, thank you.

1174
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 1: Thank you. That, ladies and gentlemen, was the Reverend Robert Shank,

1175
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:26,840
Speaker 1: former right wing activist turn dissenting evangelical organizer, and right

1176
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 1: here on the other side, we will do our calls

1177
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 1: to action, get us on out of here. Thank you, vers, thank.

1178
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 3: You, appreciate your time.

1179
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 1: Who cares about truth?

1180
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 15: In the last Morning.

1181
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 1: It man, we've had a powerful show to that. I

1182
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 1: think that interview with Reverend Robert Shank was something that

1183
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 1: we all need to sit with for a little while,

1184
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 1: and I think I call to actions are going to

1185
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:58,919
Speaker 1: reflect that. So I want to start with our special

1186
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:04,040
Speaker 1: guest co host today, the just amazing, amazing, awesome in

1187
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:05,719
Speaker 1: the truest sense of the word, to make a maleori.

1188
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 1: What you got for us?

1189
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:08,720
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, thank you all again, this has

1190
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 5: really been a pleasure and that was such an incredible

1191
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:13,000
Speaker 5: conversation that I'm glad I was able to be a

1192
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 5: part of. From my call to action today, you know,

1193
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:18,680
Speaker 5: I want to remind folks that as we celebrate the

1194
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 5: one month of Black History Month, because the whole year

1195
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 5: is Black History Month, but this February, as many of

1196
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 5: us are celebrating, I also want us to remember to

1197
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:32,840
Speaker 5: remember some of the fallen soldiers in our movement. And

1198
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:35,719
Speaker 5: you know, just to name a few. On February second

1199
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:39,519
Speaker 5: of twenty twelve, for Marley Graham was shot and killed

1200
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:41,519
Speaker 5: in his house in the Bronx, and it sparked the

1201
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,120
Speaker 5: movement not just in New York but across the country.

1202
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:46,600
Speaker 5: He was a young teenager and the police ran in

1203
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:49,679
Speaker 5: his excuse me in his home behind him and shot

1204
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 5: him while his elderly grandmother was at home. Then on

1205
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 5: February fourth and nineteen ninety nine, twenty seven years ago,

1206
01:13:56,920 --> 01:14:00,360
Speaker 5: I'm gonna dou Diallo was shot forty one time with

1207
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 5: a cell phone in his hands. It is a story

1208
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 5: that we will never ever forget. And then on February

1209
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 5: twenty six, twenty and twelve, Trayvon Martin was killed.

1210
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:11,799
Speaker 2: Fourteen years ago.

1211
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:17,639
Speaker 5: I just attended the annual celebration in honor of his life,

1212
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:21,680
Speaker 5: his birthday, where his family for fourteen years have been

1213
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:25,000
Speaker 5: holding down the fort of remembrance for their son, but

1214
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:28,839
Speaker 5: also the movement that we are all engaged in for justice,

1215
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:31,720
Speaker 5: for freedom, and for our rights. And you know, it

1216
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:34,799
Speaker 5: makes me think about so many people who've been saying

1217
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 5: ice has been police for us, right, so what.

1218
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:41,080
Speaker 2: Ices to other communities?

1219
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 5: Police officers around this country have been that that our

1220
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:48,760
Speaker 5: communities have been under sieged by law enforcement for a

1221
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 5: long time, and that it is not public safety, it's

1222
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:56,479
Speaker 5: actually state sanctioned violence. We see the connection. We know

1223
01:14:56,560 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 5: that these are just different, multiple uniform arms that are

1224
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:05,640
Speaker 5: performing the same terror on our communities. And so this February,

1225
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 5: let's also remember those folks who have been taken from

1226
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 5: our communities in this act of terror by law enforcement

1227
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 5: across the nation.

1228
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:18,760
Speaker 1: Powerful, powerful as always, Angela.

1229
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 4: Thank you so much Tamika for sharing that. Mine is

1230
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 4: a lot lighter. I just need my Seahawks to win

1231
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 4: the super Bowl. It's very plain, it's very easy. I

1232
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:33,719
Speaker 4: need us not to relive the trauma from the last

1233
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:35,680
Speaker 4: Super Bowl. We made it to my dad and I

1234
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:38,920
Speaker 4: vented about it. We retraumatize each other on my live

1235
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:41,040
Speaker 4: show on Tuesday in case y'all want to see that.

1236
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:45,599
Speaker 4: And I also would just encourage you all to have

1237
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 4: fun this weekend, watch all the Super Bowl commercials, cheer

1238
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 4: on bad Bunny, pray that he does something to make

1239
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 4: some real upset, and posting all caps on truth social

1240
01:15:54,439 --> 01:15:56,599
Speaker 4: that's my cause action, my call to action, and check

1241
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 4: out our mini pod because it will be about what

1242
01:15:58,560 --> 01:15:59,400
Speaker 4: bad Bunny might do.

1243
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 1: Mayor gillim uh I actually I'm gonna make this recognidation

1244
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 1: without having read it, but I'm.

1245
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 3: Gonna take the passes word baptized in blood if those

1246
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:16,200
Speaker 3: if we're curious about maybe understanding a little bit better

1247
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 3: the psyche, because it confounds me. That's probably why I

1248
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 3: couldn't put a question together right, but it confounds me

1249
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 3: what exists and what moves and motivates the other side.

1250
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:28,559
Speaker 3: But to the extent that it could become a little

1251
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:31,840
Speaker 3: bit of a crack in the window for how we

1252
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 3: might reach some of our coworkers and people who we

1253
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:38,360
Speaker 3: find ourselves in relationship with but have a wall on

1254
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 3: our politics, we might be able to maybe learn something.

1255
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:43,760
Speaker 3: Peep peep, peep through the window and see if there's

1256
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 3: something there for us, So I'm gonna I'm gonna go

1257
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:48,760
Speaker 3: ahead and order it and take a re join me.

1258
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:52,760
Speaker 1: Mine's along the same lines. Just my call to action

1259
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:55,760
Speaker 1: is I want people to take a deep breath when

1260
01:16:56,120 --> 01:17:00,679
Speaker 1: we are evaluating people that we perceive to be our

1261
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:04,719
Speaker 1: political opposite. This week we saw Andrew Schultz have somewhat

1262
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:06,320
Speaker 1: of a come to Jesus moment for lack of a

1263
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:10,200
Speaker 1: better term, saying that you know, I regret platforming Trump.

1264
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:12,599
Speaker 1: You know this, that, and the third I now see

1265
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:15,200
Speaker 1: that you all were right. We're seeing a lot of

1266
01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 1: young people. I've seen articles in the Washington Post talking

1267
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:20,840
Speaker 1: about the young generation saying that they regret voting for Trump.

1268
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:25,360
Speaker 1: You see a lot of Hispanic men in particular, regret

1269
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:28,439
Speaker 1: voting for Donald Trump. You see the change that the

1270
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:32,800
Speaker 1: right Reverend Robert Shank has made. And so I guess

1271
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:38,680
Speaker 1: my point is before we reflexively say we've told you so,

1272
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,599
Speaker 1: take a deep breath and think about ways in which

1273
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 1: they can be a positive impact to the movement, because

1274
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:47,640
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it's my belief that

1275
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:49,839
Speaker 1: we need them to if we're going to have any change.

1276
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:53,200
Speaker 1: So that's my call to action. This has been a

1277
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 1: great show, y'all. I love to Meeka Mallory. I hope

1278
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 1: she comes back as often as she possibly can, even

1279
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 1: at replace Andrews ever she can. So as always, we

1280
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 1: want to remind everyone to leave us a review and

1281
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 1: subscribe to Native lamp Pod. We're available on all podcast

1282
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:11,639
Speaker 1: platforms and YouTube. If you're looking for more shows like ours,

1283
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:14,639
Speaker 1: check out the other shows on our reason Choice Media Networks,

1284
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 1: Politics with Jamil Hill, Off, The Cup with Si Cup,

1285
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:21,679
Speaker 1: and Now you Know with Noah Debra. Fuck his name.

1286
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:26,240
Speaker 4: As you would think an attorney that went to Morehouse

1287
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:28,599
Speaker 4: could read that's red.

1288
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:35,360
Speaker 1: It's not phonetically spelled. Noah, thank you. Just do that, Nick,

1289
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:38,759
Speaker 1: Thank you, Noah Debrosa. Be sure to give those a follow,

1290
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 1: and don't forget to follow us too on social media

1291
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:44,120
Speaker 1: and subscribe to our text or email list on Native

1292
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 1: lampod dot com and substacks for all of those who

1293
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:50,960
Speaker 1: have substacks, including The Moment dot Com Withcari Sellers, we

1294
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:55,960
Speaker 1: are Angela Rye, Andrew gillim Me Macari Sellers. But even

1295
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Speaker 1: more importantly, I just want to give a huge prayer,

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Speaker 1: not for what she has has done or what she

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Speaker 1: is doing, but a prayer for what she will do.

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Speaker 1: May God cover you and order all your steps to

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Speaker 1: Mika Mallory. Welcome home, y'all. Have you one hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy seven days until midterm elections. Welcome home to.

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Speaker 15: The Natives landing on the podcast space. That's a for greatness.

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Speaker 15: Sixty minutes is so hit, not too long for the

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Speaker 15: grave shit, high level combo politics in a way that

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Speaker 15: you could taste it then digest it. Politics touches you

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Speaker 15: even if you don't touch it. So get invested. Across

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Speaker 15: the t's and doctor I kill them, got them ass sellers,

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Speaker 15: staying on business or why you could have been anywhere,

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Speaker 15: but you trust us. Native lampod is the prayer that

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Speaker 15: you can trusty.

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Speaker 1: Native Lampard is a production of iHeart Radio and partnership

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Speaker 1: with Reason Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to

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Speaker 1: your favorite shows. And with that we out