WEBVTT - US to Revoke AI Diffusion Rule, The Future of High-Speed Travel 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:09.720 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:15.480 where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:40.120 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.400 Live from San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology. 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:38.919 Coming up. 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:43.120 The Trump administration moves to rescind the AI diffusion rule 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:47.360 launched by President Biden, looking to draft its own approach. Plus, 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:49.920 the US is clearing a path for Saudi Arabia and 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.600 the UAE to pursue their AI ambitions, with Nvideo and 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.240 AMD winning multi billion dollar deals in the region, and 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.840 a ban on supersonic commercial flights over the US land 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.920 could soon be history. Let's get to financial markets, the 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.440 technology sector and AI infrastructure. These are the big movers 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:10.800 to the upside. We talked about in the last twenty 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:13.360 four hours. The deals that in VideA and AMD one 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.920 to sell their cutting edge processors or AI accelerators to 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.959 Saudi Arabia. Note the outperformance of AMD up around five percent. 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.760 They also are doing a six billion dollar additional share buyback. 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.759 They already had four billion dollars of buy back outstanding. 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.360 Super Micro, with its own twenty billion dollar deal for 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:31.320 data center. 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:32.680 Infrastructure in the Kingdom. 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:37.320 Then there's the rethink on rules about technology export controls 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:41.080 to the Gulf and other nations. The US has formally 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.360 moved to rescind the AI diffusion rule and made it 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:47.400 clear it would no longer be enforced, while the bureaucratic 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:51.440 process of revoking the rule unfolds, Bluemogs Mike Sheppard joins 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.760 US now for more. We're making progress towards a place 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:59.680 where America's biggest technology companies can sell that tech into 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:03.400 read like the Gulf, But China is an outstanding question. 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.240 China is the outstanding question, and we're getting no signal 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.560 from the Trump administration that there will be any relaxation 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.840 of restrictions when it comes to China, especially not in 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:17.920 the wake of deep Seek's breakthrough. We did see just 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.880 about a month ago the Trump administration moved the bar 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:24.120 and Video from selling its H twenty chip to China. 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.720 This is a device that was designed for the Chinese market, 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.120 and that is out of concern that the startups in 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.720 China could use this chip as part of the inference 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:38.400 model that could achieve AI breakthroughs. And the same thing 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:41.600 applies to AMD's MII three to eight chips, so we 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.560 are not seeing any relaxation of standards there. And while 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:48.400 the administration is moving away from the AI diffusion rule, 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.400 which set up, as you remember ed, these three broad 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:55.240 tiers of countries governing their ability and their access to 0:02:55.320 --> 0:03:00.919 buy AI chips from amdm from Nvidio especially, they. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:01.760 Are replacing them with something else. 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:05.520 So this will be we expect a more bilateral approach, 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.480 that each nation would forge its own agreement with the 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:12.799 US and achieve some sort of security understanding whereby China 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:17.960 would be prevented from acquiring the technology either physically or perhaps. 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:18.400 Via the cloud. 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.040 They would need to show security arrangements and standards before 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.400 they'd be able to get through the door and acquire 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:24.880 those chips. 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:28.320 At the state of play of the last twenty four hours, 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:31.840 is Nvidia, the most important US technology company right now, 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.240 has a deal with Saudi Arabia. AMD has a deal 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:37.800 with Saudi Arabia. But in terms of what comes next 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:41.800 you alluded to it. We expect bilateral agreements between the 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:46.280 United States, Saudi Arabia, and potentially the UAE at a 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:47.520 nation to nation level. 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.440 Well, that's right, and we were expecting to see some 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:54.240 of that even during this trip, the president is still 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.040 in the region. He has left realities and cutter right 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:01.040 now accepting the perhaps new area one that we've heard 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.280 about so much this week, and then as next up 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.120 will be in the United Arab Emirates, and they also 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.480 have a huge stake in the AI game, and they have, 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.880 like Saudi Arabia, big ambitions in this area. Their G 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.200 forty two company is really looking to leave a mark 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.320 in the region. And one deal that our colleague Mackenzie 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:25.080 Hawkins broke the news on would be perhaps allowing G 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.919 forty two to buy hundreds of thousands of these AI 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:32.880 processors from Nvidia over the next several years, and that 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.719 would be a key breakthrough for the company and for 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.640 the Emirate, which has these ambitions of expanding into AI 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.359 and into advanced technology as way of diversifying its economy. 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.479 Yet it's really critical for them to expand beyond just 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:49.480 oil and gas that has made them so rich. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:49.960 Over the years. 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.280 Bloembags Michael Sheppard out of Washington, d C. Thank you 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.120 very much. Let's get more in the market. 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:55.560 Reaction. 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.760 Bank of America came out saying that Nvidia and AMD 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:03.360 have a multi billion dollar opportunity related to AI infrastructure projects, 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.080 specifically in Saudi Arabia, and there's a lot of bullishness 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.400 out there about the prospects of the deal announced in 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.200 the last twenty four hours. Nancy Tegler is CEO and 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:17.440 CIO of Laffatengler Investments, and those were deals between American companies, 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:21.359 leading American technology companies and those that Golf Nation of 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.039 Saudi Arabia is an investor. How did you react and 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:25.120 respond to that news? 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.120 Well, thanks for having me ed. I mean, of course 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:35.919 it's optimistic, rhetoric and potentially super beneficial to the ultimate 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:38.360 earnings of the companies. We need to see when these 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:42.159 investments come in and the timing and the volume. But 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:46.040 I think just on an overall basis, what it does 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:50.839 is it replaces the lost revenue from China. And it 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:54.240 may not dollar for dollar, but it does psychologically. And 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.479 so we were in buying these names. I've been on 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.560 with you many times. We were buying in January, February, March, 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:03.479 not just in Nvidia, but a number of the software 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.800 related companies around AI and then of course Tesla. And 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.120 I think that's a lesson to everyone that this trade 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:14.039 is not over Wall Street tends to be very short 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:18.320 term focused. Investors like me tend to be longer term focused. 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:21.760 And what we learned yesterday is that is confirmation that 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:25.920 were early innings in this AI buildout and it is 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:30.320 potentially the fourth Industrial Revolution, and it is similar to 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.599 what we saw in the nineties in terms of productivity enhancements. 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:36.520 Nancy, stay with us and bear with me. We have 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.800 some news crossing the Bloomberg terminal. E Toro Group's US 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:43.000 shares are indicated to open at sixty three dollars and 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.160 fifty cents each. This is pending trading on an IPO 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:49.320 that priced at fifty two dollars a share, so priced 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.720 at fifty two but indicated to open at sixty three 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.160 dollars and fifty cents. The marketed range was forty six 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.960 to fifty. E Toro basically a rival to robin Hood, 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:05.200 the trading and investment platform Israel based company, and this 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:09.200 is a IPO that would give the company at its 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.920 fifty two dollars IPO price and market cap of about 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.880 four point three billion dollars. Nancy Tanglo, while you're with us, 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:17.720 I see some green shoots. Is that one way to 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.080 put it in this US IPO market. 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:22.440 Yeah, I do think you're right, ed. I mean, this 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.760 one makes me just a little bit nervous because it's 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:30.000 piling on today trading. I think in many regards, however, 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.080 I love seeing the retail investor engaged, in fact much 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.200 more so than the institutional investor. And I do think 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:41.240 that we'll continue to see acquisitions at M and A 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.960 in general. We just launched a MidCap strategy for that 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:49.160 very reason. So I do think this is bullish for 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.200 the economy and the overall market, and you know, I 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:54.160 commend them on their day one of trading. 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:56.680 Let's go back to the big story, which I think 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.920 is AI infrastructure in the relationship between the United States 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.560 the golf. What we're trying to understand is what happens next. 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:08.160 Our colleagues at Bloomberg Intelligence did the analysis on how 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.960 much revenue in Nvidia and AMD will derive from that 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:14.880 golf region. So ten to fifteen billion dollars in annual 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.640 sales for Nvidia through twenty twenty seven, just one to 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.240 two billion dollars for AMD in the same region. 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:21.240 But here's the key bit. 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:26.360 Cushioning the blow from unchanged China export perves. We open 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.680 this program saying that the diffusion rule has been rescinded, 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:33.240 but a new, specific Trump era rule will come. How 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:34.720 do you think they will approach China? 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:35.559 Yeah? 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:37.640 I do think that is the good news in all this. 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.680 As I said earlier, the difficulty for investors in Nvidia 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:43.920 was what were they going to do if China was 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:47.120 taken off the table as a potential customer. So I 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.800 think you'll I still think we'll see chips sold to China. 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:53.680 The question is in what form? And then the question 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:58.360 is how much does Nvidia and AMD need that revenue 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.480 if they're opening up, if they have opened up new 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.520 markets for distributions. So I think what the Trump administration 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:12.360 has done is isolate certain adversaries, So think Iran, Russia, 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:17.080 China by going on this goodwill trip to the Middle East. 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.040 Let me show you a chart, and this chart shows 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.319 that as of today's market open, Nvidia jumped above Apple 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:29.440 as the world's second most valuable company. Microsoft remains in 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:34.040 place as the world's most valuable company. Given everything that 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.280 we've discussed and the events of the last twenty four hours, 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:39.079 where do you need to be right now? 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:39.560 Nancy? 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.760 In the infrastructure play or in the software Hyperscala play 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:44.800 with Microsoft. 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:47.280 So I do think at the margin you want to 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.440 be adding to the software play, which is you know, 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:54.000 we added to Nvidia twice this year, but we also 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.720 added to Microsoft and Palanteer and then some of the 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:00.840 cyber names Oracle as well on the software side. So 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.160 I think that is going to be the next stage 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.520 of build out. And we took the proceeds from names 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:10.880 like Dell that we felt like had had a nice run, 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.560 and you know, on evaluation basis relative to growth and 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.920 margins was probably mostly worked out. It's you know, that's 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.440 been a good call so far. But I think you 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.160 want to if you have to pick, I think you 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:25.920 want to pick software over hardware. 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.960 Nancy Tangler of laf for Tengler Investments, thank you very much. 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:41.920 Ten cents or revenue grow at its fastest pay since 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.280 twenty twenty one, posting a thirteen percent jump in sales 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.120 to twenty five billion dollars in the March Cores. The 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:52.680 results giving confidence to investors that China's most valuable company 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.920 could weather a potential global downturn in twenty twenty five. 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.000 For more, bloombergs Henry Wren joins us and Henry. I mean, 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.599 what are the main factor is the drive growth in 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:03.000 ten cents business right now? 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:08.199 Yeah, two growth engines to mention one, the most important 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.559 one is the domestic gaming business and that has been 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:13.680 the key driver for the quarter, and the company said 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.960 that it's evergreen games such as Owner of Kings has 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:20.520 registered record high levels of gross receipts in the quarter 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.400 and that has been the most important driver. And some 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:28.280 neurogames also shine as well. For example, the twenty twenty 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.280 four release game called the Delta Force also has become 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.880 one of the most played games in China. Another driver 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.680 has been about the advertising revenue, which grew by about 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.600 twenty percent in the first quarter, and that's down to 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:44.640 the Wichat app, the short form video platform embedded in 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.480 Wichat that has impressed as well. 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.760 This is a company that's heavily investing in AI research 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.400 and ways to monetize to create products with AI. 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:56.640 What do we learn about that? 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.319 Yeah, A lot of focus you can imagine, probably on 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.240 the analysts core is about, you know, whether what's your 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.600 plan about AI investments and how do you look about 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:12.559 the recent band on restrictions on AI chips in China 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.240 and the company gave a very long but pretty honest 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.840 answer in terms of restrictions, and first, in terms of investments, 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.360 the company is still investing hard. In terms of CAPEX, 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.000 we are talking about the company doubling. 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.720 Its capex versus versus. 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:29.680 A year earlier, although easing of slightly from the four 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:33.400 Q levels. But in terms of restrictions, the company said well, 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:37.480 in terms of the key businesses, for example, the promotion 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.320 of advertising as well as the gaming business, and the 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:44.680 current backlog of AI chips is probably enough, but in 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:48.400 terms of AI training, the company needs more powerful AI chips, 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:53.200 the more powerful cluster of chips. However, the focus for 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.760 now is to improve on the software side given the restraint. 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.160 Blue Legs Henry Ren on all things ten Cent, thank 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.319 you very much. Another story, we're tracking no fee banking 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.880 startup Chime filed publicly for an IPO resuming plans. It 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.200 is placed on pause when Trump's tariff plans world markets 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:14.200 last month. It's the latest company fast tracking its public 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.439 offering prospects. More on the IPO outlook. Bloomber's Katie Roof 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:19.760 joins us and Katie. You know, we're tracking so many 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:21.880 names at once now, which is interesting of itself. 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:23.280 Tell me about Chime. 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.360 What we know about this, the mechanism at which they 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:27.160 want to go to market. 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:32.760 Yeah, so we saw Chimes IPO filing yesterday. You know, 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:37.360 they're the no fee bank that was valued at twenty 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:41.360 five billion in the twenty twenty one boom. They've raised 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:46.880 a lot of money from many different investors, including Memlo 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:51.440 Adventures and Iconic. They usually when there's a filing, you 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.280 want to go public a couple of weeks after you 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.680 start your roadshow, so usually within a month, although recently 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.720 the tariffs had delayed, so all the ones that had 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:05.320 filings flop public. But you know, we're starting to see 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.000 IPOs again with e Toro. 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.000 With Etro. If you're just joining the program. 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.000 Just before we came on air, e Toro's US shares 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.960 were indicated to open Kadie at sixty three dollars fifty 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:20.280 cents each. Sixty three dollars fifty cents each. The IPO 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.280 priced at fifty two. We're waiting for that start of trading. 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.720 E Toro is an interesting one Israel based trading platform. 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.760 Kind of arrival to Robin Hood. Tell me about this IPO. 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.080 Sure, well, it was a long time coming, not just 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.800 you know, with IPOs getting delayed repeatedly the last few years, 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.800 but also this is a startup that's been around for 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.640 more than fifteen years and you know they're finally going 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.960 through with their IPO. If you look at a comp Robinhood, 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:53.000 Robinhood's been surging you to date. So it actually makes 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.240 a lot of sense that e Toro would want to 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:56.480 go public in a market like this. 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.480 Bloomers, Katie Roof and all things IPO, thank you very much. Now, 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.960 coming up on Bloomberg Technology, we're going to hear from 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.920 the Twilio CEO Cozmer Ship Chandlers. The company kicks off 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:10.160 its Signal Developers conference back in person for the first 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:11.720 time since twenty nineteen. 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:13.400 This is Bloomberg Technology. 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.760 I caught up with Twilio CEO kozmer Ship Chandler as 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.640 the company's bringing back it's Signal Developers conference to San 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:35.720 Francisco in person for the first time since twenty nineteen, 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:37.840 and that kicks off today and as a part of that, 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:41.080 they announced a new multi year partnership with Microsoft. 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.960 So with respect to Microsoft, we announced a multi year 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:50.360 strategic partnership. Obviously they're an incredible brand that they've got 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:54.240 great enterprise scale. We really view it as two great 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.840 companies coming together to be able to deliver on the 0:15:57.920 --> 0:15:58.480 vision that. 0:15:58.400 --> 0:15:59.120 We've laid out. 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.960 In particular, we're going to use them for their amazing 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.360 AI technology. I think they've done some really interesting things 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:10.240 with respect to as youre AI workloads. Again, we're going 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:14.600 to bring that together with our contextual data capabilities plus 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:19.280 our communications all in one platform. I think importantly, we're 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.880 increasingly going to market as an infrastructure layer, one that 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:28.240 unlocks the customer experience layer of the Internet, if you will, 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.000 and I think Microsoft's can be a big part of 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:30.480 that story. 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.240 So do we view this as kind of a sales 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:37.760 channel move? You know, there's an argument that working with 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.920 Microsoft in this way on a shared common platform helps 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.840 Twilio go after a much larger addressable market in which 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:47.400 it hasn't historically played. 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:49.880 I think that's. 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.960 Definitely a possibility as time goes on. But we're really 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.880 starting from the foundations as a technology partnership. You know, 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:02.480 we both pride ourselves on delivering technologies for Builders. As 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.000 I mentioned a moment ago, you know, Builder is very 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.080 much in the ethos of the company, their technology conference, 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.800 which is in a week is labeled Build and so 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.359 I think that just fits nicely together, and. 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.600 I think we'll see how things go there. 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.960 We're very proud of some of the abilities that we're 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.680 launching together, and I think it does open the door 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.560 for commercial relationship down the road that. 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:29.920 Was Twilio's CEO Kozma Ship Chandler, from partnerships to team sports. 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.040 That's what Bench Capital has always been a bit of. 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.119 But now we're seeing the rise of the solo general 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:40.120 partner where just one person raises the money and makes 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:44.640 investing decisions. Joshua Browder is one such solo GP. His firm, 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.639 Browder Capital, just announced a thirty million dollar raise for 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.959 its fourth fund. Joshua is with me in the studio 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.240 and in those watching. Probably know you best is the 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:57.679 CEO of Do Not Pay, which short description is an 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.360 AI powered lawyer chatbot that originally helps you get out 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.399 of parking tickets. Why do you want to raise that 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:07.640 much money and invest it on your own without any partners? 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:12.040 So I specialize in backing young founders. I'm an investor 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:15.120 in more Tiel fellows than anyone else, and I think 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:19.719 young undiscovered talent is really a great investment opportunity. I 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:21.639 was lucky to be the first investor in a company 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:25.240 called Owner, which yesterday announced around a one billion valuation. 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.520 Right, So you took them from basically precede when you 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:32.439 made your investment to unicorn status. So you're now saying 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:34.040 you think you can do this. 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:38.680 I think that everyone is chasing hype, but young founders 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.720 are really the future. And I love undiscovered people that 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:45.600 everyone is passing on, and I go all in. I 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:47.680 have one staying with me right now in my apartment. 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:49.280 I put there, what do you mean by that? So 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:52.480 you've invited someone you've invested in, given them. 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.840 A home, Yeah, give them a home, give them their 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.240 first check, and really put them on the circuit. And 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:59.920 I love to relive my own founder journey and founders 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:01.199 working with other founders. 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.120 So the core question here is why is that more 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.120 beneficial to the founder than them taking a check from 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:08.480 one of the giant firms. 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:11.879 They're not even ready to take one from the giant funds. 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:16.359 I catch them on day one, and everyone is chasing hype. 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.280 I think the way to winners actually create your own 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.240 hype and create your own winners. 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.760 It's interesting where you raise the money from. So one 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.840 of the anchors of fund for is Sequoia, a very 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:28.400 large firm. 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.119 We will have a partner from Sequoia on later in 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:30.800 the program. 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:34.439 But Mark and Dreason also contributed to the fund personally 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:35.800 with his own money. 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:37.400 Why might he do that? 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:40.960 I think he has a tradition of putting first fund 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.840 managers in business, and this is my first institutional fund. 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.680 I should mention he's also the first investor. 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:47.000 And do not pay. 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.119 But he did that through Endres and Horowitz. That's a 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:52.640 giant firm. So now he's giving money to you personally 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.239 out of his own pocket because he feels that you 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:59.919 can what get to founders earlier than Andresen Horowitz can. 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:01.400 At this stage, I. 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.120 Would just say, it's about helping the ecosystem. 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:08.080 What's the strategy here, what kind of size checks where 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.520 you write, what cadence of deals you want to do 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:12.480 because we're talking early stage. 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.720 So there's so much noise right now. People are doing 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.200 dozens or even hundreds of deals a year. I want 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.200 to take the opposite approach. I take one person every 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.920 month or every other month and go all in for them, 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:24.879 and that can be a two hundred K check and 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:26.399 it can be as high as a million dollars? 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.479 Is it like more akin to an incubator than it 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.199 is to sort of traditional. 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:32.800 Seed series A series B round. 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.120 It's really up to the founder to build their business, 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:37.760 but it's almost like an incubator. I feel like I'm 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.160 a railroad conductor putting them on the right track. 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:43.040 You also have a job at Do Not Pay. How 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.480 are you going to manage that? You know, leading your 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:49.240 own startup as well as backing others finding the. 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.399 Next Do not Pay founders really love to work with 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.560 other founders, and I think it's an unfair advantage being 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:58.119 a founder and investor. No one likes to work with 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:01.119 a money manager or a professional investor. And because I 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:05.200 can give that founder energy and share solutions to problems 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.840 that I've overcome, founders really appreciate that. 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:10.840 What are the learnings you're taking from the Do Not 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:14.480 Pay story in how you want to approach this? Like 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:17.400 I recall a story where you had breakfast with Mark 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:20.080 and recent in twenty sixteen, and at that time Do 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:21.679 Not Pay was going to be a not for profit, 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:23.760 but you were convinced otherwise by him. 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:30.040 Yes, and the tiniest moment or strategy. Change can change everything, 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.400 and I want to be that for my founders. I've 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:35.840 dealt with problems that I can help them uniquely with. 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:38.879 So for example, how to get that app classified so 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:41.320 that they're not paying thirty percent to Apple, which is 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:42.520 something that we always deal with. 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:46.000 The Do Not Pay Joshua Browder, CEO Do Not Pay 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.480 plus the solo GP and founder of Browder Capital. 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:50.400 Thank you very much. 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:03.320 Apple is investing five hundred billion dollars, the video is investing, 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:06.199 and I see my friend is here, Jensen. That's very 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:08.760 good wherever you may be. I thank you very much 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:12.520