Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of
Speaker 1: where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2: Live from San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 3: Coming up.
Speaker 2: The Trump administration moves to rescind the AI diffusion rule
Speaker 2: launched by President Biden, looking to draft its own approach. Plus,
Speaker 2: the US is clearing a path for Saudi Arabia and
Speaker 2: the UAE to pursue their AI ambitions, with Nvideo and
Speaker 2: AMD winning multi billion dollar deals in the region, and
Speaker 2: a ban on supersonic commercial flights over the US land
Speaker 2: could soon be history. Let's get to financial markets, the
Speaker 2: technology sector and AI infrastructure. These are the big movers
Speaker 2: to the upside. We talked about in the last twenty
Speaker 2: four hours. The deals that in VideA and AMD one
Speaker 2: to sell their cutting edge processors or AI accelerators to
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia. Note the outperformance of AMD up around five percent.
Speaker 2: They also are doing a six billion dollar additional share buyback.
Speaker 2: They already had four billion dollars of buy back outstanding.
Speaker 2: Super Micro, with its own twenty billion dollar deal for
Speaker 2: data center.
Speaker 3: Infrastructure in the Kingdom.
Speaker 2: Then there's the rethink on rules about technology export controls
Speaker 2: to the Gulf and other nations. The US has formally
Speaker 2: moved to rescind the AI diffusion rule and made it
Speaker 2: clear it would no longer be enforced, while the bureaucratic
Speaker 2: process of revoking the rule unfolds, Bluemogs Mike Sheppard joins
Speaker 2: US now for more. We're making progress towards a place
Speaker 2: where America's biggest technology companies can sell that tech into
Speaker 2: read like the Gulf, But China is an outstanding question.
Speaker 4: China is the outstanding question, and we're getting no signal
Speaker 4: from the Trump administration that there will be any relaxation
Speaker 4: of restrictions when it comes to China, especially not in
Speaker 4: the wake of deep Seek's breakthrough. We did see just
Speaker 4: about a month ago the Trump administration moved the bar
Speaker 4: and Video from selling its H twenty chip to China.
Speaker 4: This is a device that was designed for the Chinese market,
Speaker 4: and that is out of concern that the startups in
Speaker 4: China could use this chip as part of the inference
Speaker 4: model that could achieve AI breakthroughs. And the same thing
Speaker 4: applies to AMD's MII three to eight chips, so we
Speaker 4: are not seeing any relaxation of standards there. And while
Speaker 4: the administration is moving away from the AI diffusion rule,
Speaker 4: which set up, as you remember ed, these three broad
Speaker 4: tiers of countries governing their ability and their access to
Speaker 4: buy AI chips from amdm from Nvidio especially, they.
Speaker 3: Are replacing them with something else.
Speaker 4: So this will be we expect a more bilateral approach,
Speaker 4: that each nation would forge its own agreement with the
Speaker 4: US and achieve some sort of security understanding whereby China
Speaker 4: would be prevented from acquiring the technology either physically or perhaps.
Speaker 3: Via the cloud.
Speaker 4: They would need to show security arrangements and standards before
Speaker 4: they'd be able to get through the door and acquire
Speaker 4: those chips.
Speaker 2: At the state of play of the last twenty four hours,
Speaker 2: is Nvidia, the most important US technology company right now,
Speaker 2: has a deal with Saudi Arabia. AMD has a deal
Speaker 2: with Saudi Arabia. But in terms of what comes next
Speaker 2: you alluded to it. We expect bilateral agreements between the
Speaker 2: United States, Saudi Arabia, and potentially the UAE at a
Speaker 2: nation to nation level.
Speaker 4: Well, that's right, and we were expecting to see some
Speaker 4: of that even during this trip, the president is still
Speaker 4: in the region. He has left realities and cutter right
Speaker 4: now accepting the perhaps new area one that we've heard
Speaker 4: about so much this week, and then as next up
Speaker 4: will be in the United Arab Emirates, and they also
Speaker 4: have a huge stake in the AI game, and they have,
Speaker 4: like Saudi Arabia, big ambitions in this area. Their G
Speaker 4: forty two company is really looking to leave a mark
Speaker 4: in the region. And one deal that our colleague Mackenzie
Speaker 4: Hawkins broke the news on would be perhaps allowing G
Speaker 4: forty two to buy hundreds of thousands of these AI
Speaker 4: processors from Nvidia over the next several years, and that
Speaker 4: would be a key breakthrough for the company and for
Speaker 4: the Emirate, which has these ambitions of expanding into AI
Speaker 4: and into advanced technology as way of diversifying its economy.
Speaker 4: Yet it's really critical for them to expand beyond just
Speaker 4: oil and gas that has made them so rich.
Speaker 3: Over the years.
Speaker 2: Bloembags Michael Sheppard out of Washington, d C. Thank you
Speaker 2: very much. Let's get more in the market.
Speaker 3: Reaction.
Speaker 2: Bank of America came out saying that Nvidia and AMD
Speaker 2: have a multi billion dollar opportunity related to AI infrastructure projects,
Speaker 2: specifically in Saudi Arabia, and there's a lot of bullishness
Speaker 2: out there about the prospects of the deal announced in
Speaker 2: the last twenty four hours. Nancy Tegler is CEO and
Speaker 2: CIO of Laffatengler Investments, and those were deals between American companies,
Speaker 2: leading American technology companies and those that Golf Nation of
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia is an investor. How did you react and
Speaker 2: respond to that news?
Speaker 5: Well, thanks for having me ed. I mean, of course
Speaker 5: it's optimistic, rhetoric and potentially super beneficial to the ultimate
Speaker 5: earnings of the companies. We need to see when these
Speaker 5: investments come in and the timing and the volume. But
Speaker 5: I think just on an overall basis, what it does
Speaker 5: is it replaces the lost revenue from China. And it
Speaker 5: may not dollar for dollar, but it does psychologically. And
Speaker 5: so we were in buying these names. I've been on
Speaker 5: with you many times. We were buying in January, February, March,
Speaker 5: not just in Nvidia, but a number of the software
Speaker 5: related companies around AI and then of course Tesla. And
Speaker 5: I think that's a lesson to everyone that this trade
Speaker 5: is not over Wall Street tends to be very short
Speaker 5: term focused. Investors like me tend to be longer term focused.
Speaker 5: And what we learned yesterday is that is confirmation that
Speaker 5: were early innings in this AI buildout and it is
Speaker 5: potentially the fourth Industrial Revolution, and it is similar to
Speaker 5: what we saw in the nineties in terms of productivity enhancements.
Speaker 2: Nancy, stay with us and bear with me. We have
Speaker 2: some news crossing the Bloomberg terminal. E Toro Group's US
Speaker 2: shares are indicated to open at sixty three dollars and
Speaker 2: fifty cents each. This is pending trading on an IPO
Speaker 2: that priced at fifty two dollars a share, so priced
Speaker 2: at fifty two but indicated to open at sixty three
Speaker 2: dollars and fifty cents. The marketed range was forty six
Speaker 2: to fifty. E Toro basically a rival to robin Hood,
Speaker 2: the trading and investment platform Israel based company, and this
Speaker 2: is a IPO that would give the company at its
Speaker 2: fifty two dollars IPO price and market cap of about
Speaker 2: four point three billion dollars. Nancy Tanglo, while you're with us,
Speaker 2: I see some green shoots. Is that one way to
Speaker 2: put it in this US IPO market.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do think you're right, ed. I mean, this
Speaker 5: one makes me just a little bit nervous because it's
Speaker 5: piling on today trading. I think in many regards, however,
Speaker 5: I love seeing the retail investor engaged, in fact much
Speaker 5: more so than the institutional investor. And I do think
Speaker 5: that we'll continue to see acquisitions at M and A
Speaker 5: in general. We just launched a MidCap strategy for that
Speaker 5: very reason. So I do think this is bullish for
Speaker 5: the economy and the overall market, and you know, I
Speaker 5: commend them on their day one of trading.
Speaker 2: Let's go back to the big story, which I think
Speaker 2: is AI infrastructure in the relationship between the United States
Speaker 2: the golf. What we're trying to understand is what happens next.
Speaker 2: Our colleagues at Bloomberg Intelligence did the analysis on how
Speaker 2: much revenue in Nvidia and AMD will derive from that
Speaker 2: golf region. So ten to fifteen billion dollars in annual
Speaker 2: sales for Nvidia through twenty twenty seven, just one to
Speaker 2: two billion dollars for AMD in the same region.
Speaker 3: But here's the key bit.
Speaker 2: Cushioning the blow from unchanged China export perves. We open
Speaker 2: this program saying that the diffusion rule has been rescinded,
Speaker 2: but a new, specific Trump era rule will come. How
Speaker 2: do you think they will approach China?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I do think that is the good news in all this.
Speaker 5: As I said earlier, the difficulty for investors in Nvidia
Speaker 5: was what were they going to do if China was
Speaker 5: taken off the table as a potential customer. So I
Speaker 5: think you'll I still think we'll see chips sold to China.
Speaker 5: The question is in what form? And then the question
Speaker 5: is how much does Nvidia and AMD need that revenue
Speaker 5: if they're opening up, if they have opened up new
Speaker 5: markets for distributions. So I think what the Trump administration
Speaker 5: has done is isolate certain adversaries, So think Iran, Russia,
Speaker 5: China by going on this goodwill trip to the Middle East.
Speaker 2: Let me show you a chart, and this chart shows
Speaker 2: that as of today's market open, Nvidia jumped above Apple
Speaker 2: as the world's second most valuable company. Microsoft remains in
Speaker 2: place as the world's most valuable company. Given everything that
Speaker 2: we've discussed and the events of the last twenty four hours,
Speaker 2: where do you need to be right now?
Speaker 3: Nancy?
Speaker 2: In the infrastructure play or in the software Hyperscala play
Speaker 2: with Microsoft.
Speaker 5: So I do think at the margin you want to
Speaker 5: be adding to the software play, which is you know,
Speaker 5: we added to Nvidia twice this year, but we also
Speaker 5: added to Microsoft and Palanteer and then some of the
Speaker 5: cyber names Oracle as well on the software side. So
Speaker 5: I think that is going to be the next stage
Speaker 5: of build out. And we took the proceeds from names
Speaker 5: like Dell that we felt like had had a nice run,
Speaker 5: and you know, on evaluation basis relative to growth and
Speaker 5: margins was probably mostly worked out. It's you know, that's
Speaker 5: been a good call so far. But I think you
Speaker 5: want to if you have to pick, I think you
Speaker 5: want to pick software over hardware.
Speaker 2: Nancy Tangler of laf for Tengler Investments, thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Ten cents or revenue grow at its fastest pay since
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, posting a thirteen percent jump in sales
Speaker 2: to twenty five billion dollars in the March Cores. The
Speaker 2: results giving confidence to investors that China's most valuable company
Speaker 2: could weather a potential global downturn in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: For more, bloombergs Henry Wren joins us and Henry. I mean,
Speaker 2: what are the main factor is the drive growth in
Speaker 2: ten cents business right now?
Speaker 6: Yeah, two growth engines to mention one, the most important
Speaker 6: one is the domestic gaming business and that has been
Speaker 6: the key driver for the quarter, and the company said
Speaker 6: that it's evergreen games such as Owner of Kings has
Speaker 6: registered record high levels of gross receipts in the quarter
Speaker 6: and that has been the most important driver. And some
Speaker 6: neurogames also shine as well. For example, the twenty twenty
Speaker 6: four release game called the Delta Force also has become
Speaker 6: one of the most played games in China. Another driver
Speaker 6: has been about the advertising revenue, which grew by about
Speaker 6: twenty percent in the first quarter, and that's down to
Speaker 6: the Wichat app, the short form video platform embedded in
Speaker 6: Wichat that has impressed as well.
Speaker 2: This is a company that's heavily investing in AI research
Speaker 2: and ways to monetize to create products with AI.
Speaker 3: What do we learn about that?
Speaker 6: Yeah, A lot of focus you can imagine, probably on
Speaker 6: the analysts core is about, you know, whether what's your
Speaker 6: plan about AI investments and how do you look about
Speaker 6: the recent band on restrictions on AI chips in China
Speaker 6: and the company gave a very long but pretty honest
Speaker 6: answer in terms of restrictions, and first, in terms of investments,
Speaker 6: the company is still investing hard. In terms of CAPEX,
Speaker 6: we are talking about the company doubling.
Speaker 3: Its capex versus versus.
Speaker 6: A year earlier, although easing of slightly from the four
Speaker 6: Q levels. But in terms of restrictions, the company said well,
Speaker 6: in terms of the key businesses, for example, the promotion
Speaker 6: of advertising as well as the gaming business, and the
Speaker 6: current backlog of AI chips is probably enough, but in
Speaker 6: terms of AI training, the company needs more powerful AI chips,
Speaker 6: the more powerful cluster of chips. However, the focus for
Speaker 6: now is to improve on the software side given the restraint.
Speaker 2: Blue Legs Henry Ren on all things ten Cent, thank
Speaker 2: you very much. Another story, we're tracking no fee banking
Speaker 2: startup Chime filed publicly for an IPO resuming plans. It
Speaker 2: is placed on pause when Trump's tariff plans world markets
Speaker 2: last month. It's the latest company fast tracking its public
Speaker 2: offering prospects. More on the IPO outlook. Bloomber's Katie Roof
Speaker 2: joins us and Katie. You know, we're tracking so many
Speaker 2: names at once now, which is interesting of itself.
Speaker 3: Tell me about Chime.
Speaker 2: What we know about this, the mechanism at which they
Speaker 2: want to go to market.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so we saw Chimes IPO filing yesterday. You know,
Speaker 7: they're the no fee bank that was valued at twenty
Speaker 7: five billion in the twenty twenty one boom. They've raised
Speaker 7: a lot of money from many different investors, including Memlo
Speaker 7: Adventures and Iconic. They usually when there's a filing, you
Speaker 7: want to go public a couple of weeks after you
Speaker 7: start your roadshow, so usually within a month, although recently
Speaker 7: the tariffs had delayed, so all the ones that had
Speaker 7: filings flop public. But you know, we're starting to see
Speaker 7: IPOs again with e Toro.
Speaker 3: With Etro. If you're just joining the program.
Speaker 2: Just before we came on air, e Toro's US shares
Speaker 2: were indicated to open Kadie at sixty three dollars fifty
Speaker 2: cents each. Sixty three dollars fifty cents each. The IPO
Speaker 2: priced at fifty two. We're waiting for that start of trading.
Speaker 2: E Toro is an interesting one Israel based trading platform.
Speaker 2: Kind of arrival to Robin Hood. Tell me about this IPO.
Speaker 7: Sure, well, it was a long time coming, not just
Speaker 7: you know, with IPOs getting delayed repeatedly the last few years,
Speaker 7: but also this is a startup that's been around for
Speaker 7: more than fifteen years and you know they're finally going
Speaker 7: through with their IPO. If you look at a comp Robinhood,
Speaker 7: Robinhood's been surging you to date. So it actually makes
Speaker 7: a lot of sense that e Toro would want to
Speaker 7: go public in a market like this.
Speaker 2: Bloomers, Katie Roof and all things IPO, thank you very much. Now,
Speaker 2: coming up on Bloomberg Technology, we're going to hear from
Speaker 2: the Twilio CEO Cozmer Ship Chandlers. The company kicks off
Speaker 2: its Signal Developers conference back in person for the first
Speaker 2: time since twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 2: I caught up with Twilio CEO kozmer Ship Chandler as
Speaker 2: the company's bringing back it's Signal Developers conference to San
Speaker 2: Francisco in person for the first time since twenty nineteen,
Speaker 2: and that kicks off today and as a part of that,
Speaker 2: they announced a new multi year partnership with Microsoft.
Speaker 8: So with respect to Microsoft, we announced a multi year
Speaker 8: strategic partnership. Obviously they're an incredible brand that they've got
Speaker 8: great enterprise scale. We really view it as two great
Speaker 8: companies coming together to be able to deliver on the
Speaker 8: vision that.
Speaker 3: We've laid out.
Speaker 8: In particular, we're going to use them for their amazing
Speaker 8: AI technology. I think they've done some really interesting things
Speaker 8: with respect to as youre AI workloads. Again, we're going
Speaker 8: to bring that together with our contextual data capabilities plus
Speaker 8: our communications all in one platform. I think importantly, we're
Speaker 8: increasingly going to market as an infrastructure layer, one that
Speaker 8: unlocks the customer experience layer of the Internet, if you will,
Speaker 8: and I think Microsoft's can be a big part of
Speaker 8: that story.
Speaker 2: So do we view this as kind of a sales
Speaker 2: channel move? You know, there's an argument that working with
Speaker 2: Microsoft in this way on a shared common platform helps
Speaker 2: Twilio go after a much larger addressable market in which
Speaker 2: it hasn't historically played.
Speaker 3: I think that's.
Speaker 8: Definitely a possibility as time goes on. But we're really
Speaker 8: starting from the foundations as a technology partnership. You know,
Speaker 8: we both pride ourselves on delivering technologies for Builders. As
Speaker 8: I mentioned a moment ago, you know, Builder is very
Speaker 8: much in the ethos of the company, their technology conference,
Speaker 8: which is in a week is labeled Build and so
Speaker 8: I think that just fits nicely together, and.
Speaker 3: I think we'll see how things go there.
Speaker 8: We're very proud of some of the abilities that we're
Speaker 8: launching together, and I think it does open the door
Speaker 8: for commercial relationship down the road that.
Speaker 2: Was Twilio's CEO Kozma Ship Chandler, from partnerships to team sports.
Speaker 3: That's what Bench Capital has always been a bit of.
Speaker 2: But now we're seeing the rise of the solo general
Speaker 2: partner where just one person raises the money and makes
Speaker 2: investing decisions. Joshua Browder is one such solo GP. His firm,
Speaker 2: Browder Capital, just announced a thirty million dollar raise for
Speaker 2: its fourth fund. Joshua is with me in the studio
Speaker 2: and in those watching. Probably know you best is the
Speaker 2: CEO of Do Not Pay, which short description is an
Speaker 2: AI powered lawyer chatbot that originally helps you get out
Speaker 2: of parking tickets. Why do you want to raise that
Speaker 2: much money and invest it on your own without any partners?
Speaker 9: So I specialize in backing young founders. I'm an investor
Speaker 9: in more Tiel fellows than anyone else, and I think
Speaker 9: young undiscovered talent is really a great investment opportunity. I
Speaker 9: was lucky to be the first investor in a company
Speaker 9: called Owner, which yesterday announced around a one billion valuation.
Speaker 2: Right, So you took them from basically precede when you
Speaker 2: made your investment to unicorn status. So you're now saying
Speaker 2: you think you can do this.
Speaker 9: I think that everyone is chasing hype, but young founders
Speaker 9: are really the future. And I love undiscovered people that
Speaker 9: everyone is passing on, and I go all in. I
Speaker 9: have one staying with me right now in my apartment.
Speaker 2: I put there, what do you mean by that? So
Speaker 2: you've invited someone you've invested in, given them.
Speaker 9: A home, Yeah, give them a home, give them their
Speaker 9: first check, and really put them on the circuit. And
Speaker 9: I love to relive my own founder journey and founders
Speaker 9: working with other founders.
Speaker 2: So the core question here is why is that more
Speaker 2: beneficial to the founder than them taking a check from
Speaker 2: one of the giant firms.
Speaker 9: They're not even ready to take one from the giant funds.
Speaker 9: I catch them on day one, and everyone is chasing hype.
Speaker 9: I think the way to winners actually create your own
Speaker 9: hype and create your own winners.
Speaker 2: It's interesting where you raise the money from. So one
Speaker 2: of the anchors of fund for is Sequoia, a very
Speaker 2: large firm.
Speaker 3: We will have a partner from Sequoia on later in
Speaker 3: the program.
Speaker 2: But Mark and Dreason also contributed to the fund personally
Speaker 2: with his own money.
Speaker 3: Why might he do that?
Speaker 9: I think he has a tradition of putting first fund
Speaker 9: managers in business, and this is my first institutional fund.
Speaker 9: I should mention he's also the first investor.
Speaker 3: And do not pay.
Speaker 2: But he did that through Endres and Horowitz. That's a
Speaker 2: giant firm. So now he's giving money to you personally
Speaker 2: out of his own pocket because he feels that you
Speaker 2: can what get to founders earlier than Andresen Horowitz can.
Speaker 3: At this stage, I.
Speaker 9: Would just say, it's about helping the ecosystem.
Speaker 2: What's the strategy here, what kind of size checks where
Speaker 2: you write, what cadence of deals you want to do
Speaker 2: because we're talking early stage.
Speaker 9: So there's so much noise right now. People are doing
Speaker 9: dozens or even hundreds of deals a year. I want
Speaker 9: to take the opposite approach. I take one person every
Speaker 9: month or every other month and go all in for them,
Speaker 9: and that can be a two hundred K check and
Speaker 9: it can be as high as a million dollars?
Speaker 2: Is it like more akin to an incubator than it
Speaker 2: is to sort of traditional.
Speaker 3: Seed series A series B round.
Speaker 9: It's really up to the founder to build their business,
Speaker 9: but it's almost like an incubator. I feel like I'm
Speaker 9: a railroad conductor putting them on the right track.
Speaker 2: You also have a job at Do Not Pay. How
Speaker 2: are you going to manage that? You know, leading your
Speaker 2: own startup as well as backing others finding the.
Speaker 9: Next Do not Pay founders really love to work with
Speaker 9: other founders, and I think it's an unfair advantage being
Speaker 9: a founder and investor. No one likes to work with
Speaker 9: a money manager or a professional investor. And because I
Speaker 9: can give that founder energy and share solutions to problems
Speaker 9: that I've overcome, founders really appreciate that.
Speaker 2: What are the learnings you're taking from the Do Not
Speaker 2: Pay story in how you want to approach this? Like
Speaker 2: I recall a story where you had breakfast with Mark
Speaker 2: and recent in twenty sixteen, and at that time Do
Speaker 2: Not Pay was going to be a not for profit,
Speaker 2: but you were convinced otherwise by him.
Speaker 9: Yes, and the tiniest moment or strategy. Change can change everything,
Speaker 9: and I want to be that for my founders. I've
Speaker 9: dealt with problems that I can help them uniquely with.
Speaker 9: So for example, how to get that app classified so
Speaker 9: that they're not paying thirty percent to Apple, which is
Speaker 9: something that we always deal with.
Speaker 2: The Do Not Pay Joshua Browder, CEO Do Not Pay
Speaker 2: plus the solo GP and founder of Browder Capital.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much.
Speaker 10: Apple is investing five hundred billion dollars, the video is investing,
Speaker 10: and I see my friend is here, Jensen. That's very
Speaker 10: good wherever you may be. I thank you very much
Speaker 10: because he's putting in five hundred billion dollars. TSMC is
Speaker 10: investing two hundred billion, and with this trip we're adding
Speaker 10: over one trillion dollars more in terms of investment.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology, Imed Ludlow in San Francisco,
Speaker 2: and that was President Trump there in Riad yesterday talking
Speaker 2: up all of the deals that have taken place in
Speaker 2: the last twenty four hours, largely in AI infrastructure. When
Speaker 2: it comes to financial markets, there's like a bit of
Speaker 2: fatigue out there, although up basically half a percentage point.
Speaker 2: Then as that one hundred is out performing other major innesses.
Speaker 2: What the President also said on Air Force one last
Speaker 2: night is that he wants America to lead in both
Speaker 2: the theaters of AI and crypto, although bitcoin under a
Speaker 2: bit of pressure one hundred and three thousand or so
Speaker 2: US dollars per token. These are the single names that
Speaker 2: we're really focused on in tech stocks right now, and
Speaker 2: they are printedly the chip makers and Video and AMD
Speaker 2: both securing multi year, multi billion dollar deals to ship
Speaker 2: their latest generation AI accelerators to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia,
Speaker 2: and Bloomberg also reporting citing sources that a deal with
Speaker 2: UAE is coming as well. Bloomberg's Amri Horden is in
Speaker 2: the golf and has been following the latest on President
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's visit to the Middle East and joins US
Speaker 2: now at AMH. The centerpiece of all of this is
Speaker 2: the deal between two leading or maybe more than two
Speaker 2: leading American technology companies and their access to markets in
Speaker 2: the golf.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 11: Absolutely, ed. This is really one of the standout pillars
Speaker 11: of the President's trip, and it's transformational for a lot
Speaker 11: of these golf countries, which traditionally have relied upon their
Speaker 11: influence their wealth being from natural resources to now they're
Speaker 11: thinking about the future, and to have that future, to
Speaker 11: have data centers, they need to get their hands on
Speaker 11: advanced semiconductors. And you know, as well as anyone else.
Speaker 11: Under the Biden administration, and there was frustration with these
Speaker 11: geopolitical swing states on getting access to those advanced technologies.
Speaker 3: There was something called the diffusion role.
Speaker 11: The Trump administration decided they were going to cancel it. And
Speaker 11: I actually quickly had a conversation with Jensen Wang last
Speaker 11: night as he was walking into this honorary dinner with
Speaker 11: the President in riod and I said, what do you
Speaker 11: think they rescinded.
Speaker 3: The diffusion role? And he looked at me and said, rescinded, canceled.
Speaker 11: AMD and VideA are elated about this new marketplace they
Speaker 11: can come to when it comes to advanced technology. But Ed,
Speaker 11: you know, there is still this China question that is
Speaker 11: looming over all of these deals.
Speaker 2: Right the business in the golf, Jensen can take potentially
Speaker 2: like market opportunity lost in China and make much of
Speaker 2: it back in the golf based on the research I've
Speaker 2: seen this morning, the business of geopolitics, those outstanding questions
Speaker 2: on China and there are more deals to be done
Speaker 2: between the United States and the nations that the president's visiting.
Speaker 2: What happens next amh.
Speaker 11: Yeah, He's going to go to UAE, And we have
Speaker 11: a report that potentially the UE is going to buy
Speaker 11: one hundred million of Nvidia's high tech, these advanced semiconductor chips.
Speaker 11: No surprise in the sense that Sheik Tawnun was in
Speaker 11: the White House just a few weeks ago and he
Speaker 11: then left and the UE announced one point four trillion
Speaker 11: dollar investment they would like to make. But an asterisk
Speaker 11: a part of that deal, of course, is that to
Speaker 11: make that kind of investment, they need access to these chips.
Speaker 11: But ed you talk about Nvidia and this potential new
Speaker 11: market share they can get in the golf. When I
Speaker 11: talk about China though, and the conversations that are happening
Speaker 11: in the region, especially bilateral conversations, and probably some of
Speaker 11: these conversations still to be had because they're working this out,
Speaker 11: is that if these countries get access to these chips,
Speaker 11: how do they make sure the tech does not leak
Speaker 11: to China. That is still a national security concern that
Speaker 11: has bipartsed and support in Washington, d C. These golf
Speaker 11: States want to work with the United States to make
Speaker 11: sure they can do that. But potentially you can see
Speaker 11: almost these AI data centers hubs where they're on these lands,
Speaker 11: whether it's in the United Arab Emirates or whether it's
Speaker 11: in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. But the US, and
Speaker 11: this is a story I had reporting on, but the
Speaker 11: US would control the access to that tech. Is they
Speaker 11: want to make sure that that technology does not get
Speaker 11: into the hands of Beijing.
Speaker 2: The US controlling access to the technology. Bloomberg Zamorine Hordon
Speaker 2: in Doha, Kata, thank you very much. Let's pivot from
Speaker 2: the geopolitics of AI to the investing side and bring
Speaker 2: in someone who's been involved in the sector for a
Speaker 2: long time. Constantin Bula specialized in AI machine learning investments.
Speaker 3: He's a partner at Saquoa.
Speaker 2: Capital where last year nearly seventy percent of the startups
Speaker 2: the firm invested in.
Speaker 3: Were AI companies.
Speaker 2: Let's start with just simply your reaction to the AI
Speaker 2: infrastructure deals of the last twenty four hours. US technology
Speaker 2: going to the golf and setting up data centers and
Speaker 2: AI development in that nation.
Speaker 12: Well, thank you, Ered, It's always great to be here,
Speaker 12: and these new deals are testaments to the fact that
Speaker 12: AI artificial intelligence is not just a matter of corporate success,
Speaker 12: it is a matter of national imperative. It is a
Speaker 12: great sign of the importance of this industry. I think
Speaker 12: back to a decade ago, and we had concerns about
Speaker 12: the US staying ahead of AI. There are really four
Speaker 12: key pillars to AI strength. There's the compute, there's the power,
Speaker 12: there's the data, and there's the algorithms. Thinking back to
Speaker 12: that last wave of AI, the reason why the United
Speaker 12: States has been so far ahead is that fourth pillar,
Speaker 12: those algorithms. So as we develop new technological allies around
Speaker 12: the world for compute, for power, for data, it's really
Speaker 12: important that we stay on the absolute forefront when it
Speaker 12: comes to algorithmic advancement.
Speaker 3: We have the best researchers in the world. We have
Speaker 3: the best engineers in the world. Okay, I'm sorry to interrupt.
Speaker 2: Seequensanteam with some breaking news crossing the termino from the
Speaker 2: White House. President Trump has secured one point two trillion
Speaker 2: dollars in economic commitments in Katar. The Katar commitment is
Speaker 2: one point two trillion dollars according to the White House.
Speaker 2: There are economic deals worth two hundred and forty.
Speaker 3: Three zero point five billion.
Speaker 2: This is something the president is announced on the ground
Speaker 2: in Doha. We were just speaking with Bloomberg's Amri Horden,
Speaker 2: who is in Doha, Katar, and she noted that this
Speaker 2: is what's pending. We don't have the specifics in terms
Speaker 2: of sector, in terms of companies involved, but as we
Speaker 2: get that, we'll bring it to you. And right now
Speaker 2: we'll go back to the conversation we were having, which
Speaker 2: is there is US leadership in the field of AI infrastructure.
Speaker 3: You basically break down the four categories.
Speaker 2: One that is increasingly crossing my desk is AI memory.
Speaker 2: In the context of agentic AI, this is something that
Speaker 2: people say, we need to invest in this and solve it.
Speaker 2: I personally don't have the expertise or academic grounding to
Speaker 2: understand it. Why is your industry talking about it?
Speaker 3: You're exactly right, AD.
Speaker 12: So there's compute, there's obviously the data, there's obviously the
Speaker 12: power and the algorithms. But another important component is memory
Speaker 12: because when you interface with an agent, you wanted to
Speaker 12: remember you, of course, but it also has to remember itself.
Speaker 12: Think about a physician, for example, every time they interface
Speaker 12: with a patient, an agent is going to be able
Speaker 12: to help them think back to previous interactions, not just
Speaker 12: what the patient said, not just their vitals, not just
Speaker 12: data about the patient, but over time, using tools and
Speaker 12: companies like open Evidence, the physician's going to be able
Speaker 12: to remember exactly what the interaction was like, how to
Speaker 12: communicate to the patient, and memory is going to become
Speaker 12: more and more important.
Speaker 3: The question is where does all of this activity take place? Right?
Speaker 2: The subject to today's Bloomberg Big Take is Deep Seek Right,
Speaker 2: and the Big Take presents the hypothesis that the company's
Speaker 2: sudden emergence last month illustrated how China's industry is striving
Speaker 2: irrespective of US political policy. Jensenmong told me in March,
Speaker 2: more than fifty percent of AI researchers are in China.
Speaker 2: When you think about the issues you've outlined, do you
Speaker 2: agree with that hypothesis presented that China's AI industry is
Speaker 2: thriving but also looking at the same issues that your
Speaker 2: industry is looking at H Well, it is true.
Speaker 12: That they have amazing researchers there, but it's also true
Speaker 12: that we have some of the most creative, brilliant researchers
Speaker 12: on the planet. Here's an example. Just recently, we hosted
Speaker 12: our annual AI conference, Sequoia AI Assent. We brought together
Speaker 12: one hundred and fifty of the top minds in the industry.
Speaker 12: This is everyone from Jensen h Wang and Sam Altman
Speaker 12: to the young up and comers, and the number one
Speaker 12: technical topic of the conference was a concept called tool use.
Speaker 12: Tool use is all about ais working with each other.
Speaker 3: We're teaching the computer how to use the computer.
Speaker 12: And there was fortunately a big advancement in our industry
Speaker 12: over the past few months a new protocol called Model
Speaker 12: Context Protocol. Think about each AI agent as an expert.
Speaker 12: Think about every piece of software as an expert. Your
Speaker 12: CRM is really good at remembering your previous interactions with customers,
Speaker 12: for example. The issue is that those experts don't necessarily
Speaker 12: speak the same language. What this new protocol allows is
Speaker 12: a universal translation mechanism so that all these AI agents
Speaker 12: and all these softwares can communicate. That is pivotal to
Speaker 12: us as the United States staying ahead. We have to
Speaker 12: be working together. I'll give an example of what this
Speaker 12: protocol could do for us. We have a portfolio company
Speaker 12: called Rocks. It helps the best sellers do really great
Speaker 12: research before meeting with a potential buyer. They can not
Speaker 12: only do that research now they use MCP to connect
Speaker 12: and actually make a pitch deck directly on the specific needs.
Speaker 3: Of that user.
Speaker 12: They can even plug into cognition or cloud code and
Speaker 12: write an entire demo. That's how we stay ahead of
Speaker 12: the curve. An AI collaboration and working together as researchers
Speaker 12: and engineers.
Speaker 3: Sequoiapon Team Dealer.
Speaker 2: Great to have you back here on Bloomberg Technology, Thank
Speaker 2: you very much. Now coming up, the sleep fitness startup
Speaker 2: eight Sleep joins us to discuss its growth strategy and
Speaker 2: its new product line up by conversations the next This
Speaker 2: is Bloomberg Technology. Sleep fitness startup eight Sleep is launching
Speaker 2: an expanded suite of products today. The company makes high
Speaker 2: tech temperature control mattress covers and systems, and it's also
Speaker 2: expanding into new markets. While talking up a potential IPO,
Speaker 2: eight Sleep CEO Mattheo friend Chesketti joins us from New York.
Speaker 2: This is interesting. In my world, everyone around me tracks
Speaker 2: the data so carefully, maybe through a wearable and other means.
Speaker 3: In sleep.
Speaker 2: Let's start with what's new What is the actual proprietary
Speaker 2: technology you're offering and how it helps consumer?
Speaker 13: Yeah, of course we develop our latest technology, it's called
Speaker 13: POD five. At eight Sleep, we develop technologies to improve
Speaker 13: your sleep performance, and POD five is a modular sleep
Speaker 13: system that controls your body temperature, your elevation, and sound
Speaker 13: to maximize your sleep. It does everything based on your biometrics,
Speaker 13: so we're also able to track everything about your sleep
Speaker 13: and your health in real time, and then we adjust
Speaker 13: the environment for you to improve your net of sleep.
Speaker 2: These technologies and products that a consumer can get access
Speaker 2: to via the health insurance. Are you part of a
Speaker 2: broader sort of health network or system that to go
Speaker 2: to market channel for you?
Speaker 13: No yet right now we just sell direct to consumers,
Speaker 13: but it's part of our vision. At the end of
Speaker 13: the day, we see a future where the POD will
Speaker 13: be remborsed by insurance companies because we have hard data
Speaker 13: proving that we can improve your sleep by up to
Speaker 13: thirty four percent.
Speaker 2: The reason I ask is you've had incredible growth, right
Speaker 2: Revenue is ten x since twenty twenty a five year
Speaker 2: kegre sixty percent and you know those are numbers, but
Speaker 2: what is it that's driving the growth, like what is
Speaker 2: it geographically, the demographic of the consumer, the sales channel
Speaker 2: that's helping you.
Speaker 13: Well, First of all, I think our results. People really
Speaker 13: love the product and they see the benefits. Some of
Speaker 13: our customers sometimes they also use wearables and they can
Speaker 13: see the difference in their own wearables of when they
Speaker 13: use the pod or when they don't. But what is
Speaker 13: really driving our growth, which is connected to this is
Speaker 13: world of mouth. A very large part of our revenue
Speaker 13: is just because our customers recommend the product to other people.
Speaker 13: At the same time, we keep expanding. We're right now
Speaker 13: in thirty countries and we expect to open Asia by
Speaker 13: the end of the year.
Speaker 2: I think you're also looking at Saudi Arabia given the
Speaker 2: news of the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 3: How did that come about?
Speaker 10: Yeah?
Speaker 13: Right, We were so lucky. We didn't know obviously about that,
Speaker 13: and we are announcing Saudia Rabio today, which we expect
Speaker 13: to be a very large market. We were already in
Speaker 13: UAE and the fact that the president and so many
Speaker 13: other key CEOs are there is amazing.
Speaker 2: You're also evaluating China. How realistic is it from a
Speaker 2: market perspective at the end user? But also supply chain
Speaker 2: for you to go into that market.
Speaker 13: Yeah, we expect to launch in China by the end
Speaker 13: of the year. Is a market that we know really well.
Speaker 13: We have been manufacturing in China since twenty fourteen when
Speaker 13: I moved there to really kick off the manufacturing of
Speaker 13: eight slip, and we expect to start selling in that market.
Speaker 13: As I said before the end of the year in
Speaker 13: Q one of the latest, will.
Speaker 2: You support your growth with an IPO mateo?
Speaker 13: I think as part of our strategy absolutely. I think
Speaker 13: great hartwore companies like Tesla and Apple, they all went
Speaker 13: public fairly early. I think it will give us a
Speaker 13: discipline and it will also prove that we are here
Speaker 13: to stay. We are very ambitious about what we can
Speaker 13: do for humanity to improve their health and their sleep materia.
Speaker 2: We're running short on time, but whatever you want to
Speaker 2: get to is your core competencies. Have you got brilliant
Speaker 2: software engineers, brilliant hardware engineers.
Speaker 3: What is your biggest advantage?
Speaker 13: I mean is really I right, all our engineers, they
Speaker 13: come from the biggest companies in the world. In terms
Speaker 13: of AI. We really apply AI and hardcore technologies to
Speaker 13: your sleep and your health I think there is no
Speaker 13: other company in the world improving your sleep in the
Speaker 13: way we do with software technology ANDII and.
Speaker 2: Out Mateo FRANCISCTTI, CEO of Eights Sleep. Great to have
Speaker 2: you here on Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: A ban on supersonic commercial flights over US Land could
Speaker 2: soon be history. Bipartisan group of lawmakers are looking to
Speaker 2: lift restrictions over civil jets flying over land at supersonic speeds,
Speaker 2: potentially opening the skies to a new era of high
Speaker 2: speed travel. At the center of that effort is Boom Supersonic,
Speaker 2: which is developing the next generation of supersonic jets. Joining
Speaker 2: us now is Boom CEO Blake shol And. Look, this
Speaker 2: legislative pathway is absolutely critical to whether or not you're
Speaker 2: going to be able to achieve what you want to achieve.
Speaker 2: What is the path from here and will it happen?
Speaker 2: Because without the legislation, you can't get your business off
Speaker 2: the ground.
Speaker 3: Pardon the pun.
Speaker 14: Yeah, Well, hey, good morning, Ed, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 14: No, we've had one of the dumbest regulations ever in aviation.
Speaker 14: In nineteen seventy three, we put a speed limit in
Speaker 14: place over land and what that means is we can
Speaker 14: fly supersonic from the US to Europe or from US
Speaker 14: to Asia, but we can't fly supersonic right here in
Speaker 14: the US. And with our test flights in January and February,
Speaker 14: we prove we can fly supersonic with no audible sonic boom.
Speaker 14: And I think this is just common sense. If we
Speaker 14: can fly coast to coast supersonic without any sonic boom
Speaker 14: that anybody hears in the ground, obviously that should be allowed.
Speaker 2: The big political point here for those laws is that
Speaker 2: your competitors pursuing this field on the technology side are
Speaker 2: in China, are they not?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 14: I think you know, we really are watching a slow
Speaker 14: motion train crash here right now. China is shipping a
Speaker 14: seven thirty seven Clone. They're working on a Boeing seven
Speaker 14: eighty seven Clone. Boeing has not made an all new
Speaker 14: airliner in over twenty years now, and China announced earlier
Speaker 14: this year they've entered the supersonic race. We still have
Speaker 14: the opportunity to maintain American leadership in aviation, but we've
Speaker 14: got to get out of our own way. We've got
Speaker 14: to cut the red tape that's been holding back progress
Speaker 14: in flight for fifty two years, Blake.
Speaker 2: This administration, the Trump administration has been quite engaged in
Speaker 2: the field of autonomous driving in ev toll for example,
Speaker 2: have you spoken with Transport Secretary Duffy or indeed met
Speaker 2: with the President to discuss America's efforts in supersonic The.
Speaker 14: President has a model of the overture airliner that I
Speaker 14: think he keeps outside of the Oval Office. We've had
Speaker 14: great conversation with multiple cabinet members, including Secretary Duffy. It's
Speaker 14: really hard to find anybody who wants to continue to
Speaker 14: hold flight back. And now that we've proven that we
Speaker 14: can have supersonic flights to an audible boom, Really, this
Speaker 14: is something that I think everybody can be behind.
Speaker 2: Your technology is in the design of the wings, but
Speaker 2: mostly in this engine. Right where are you at in
Speaker 2: agreements to build the plane the engine at commercial scale?
Speaker 14: You know, the surprising thing about boomless cruise is actually
Speaker 14: a software fix. It's not about the wings or the
Speaker 14: engine exactly. It's actually about how you fly the airplane
Speaker 14: such the boom never reaches the ground. And that's a
Speaker 14: software innovation that's actually pretty easy to deploy.
Speaker 3: And as we speak today, we.
Speaker 14: Prove when we can build a supersonic jet. With the
Speaker 14: XB one, we're building the first full scale symphony engine.
Speaker 14: That's the first independently developed supersonic jet engine. It's going
Speaker 14: to be running on a test stand around the end
Speaker 14: of the year, and we're looking forward to start building
Speaker 14: the first airliner on our factory in North Carolina next year.
Speaker 2: What I recognize in some an now I guess fields
Speaker 2: like ev Toll, for example, is a pivot or shift
Speaker 2: away from consumer passenger model to looking at defense applications.
Speaker 2: Is that in Boom Supersonic's future, Blake.
Speaker 14: Well, the factory that we're building, all the infrastructure are building.
Speaker 14: You know, if if worse came to worse in wartime,
Speaker 14: we could pivot from building civil products to building defense products.
Speaker 14: I think that's an important sort of rebirth in the
Speaker 14: defense industrial base. However, the most important thing, you know,
Speaker 14: I think we could do for the US government has
Speaker 14: provide fashion transportation for the most important people. We'd love
Speaker 14: to replace the rusty old seven fifty sevens and seven
Speaker 14: forty sevens that carry around our VIPs today with airplanes
Speaker 14: that could help them arrive in half the time.
Speaker 3: I never flew on Concorde.
Speaker 2: You know, I kind of have this peripheral knowledge of
Speaker 2: it from when I was a kid, But I think
Speaker 2: about what XB one did in January, right, and that
Speaker 2: you reached MAC one point one two two a thirty
Speaker 2: five thousand feet. How are you going to sort of
Speaker 2: self assess your next milestones? What are the next milestones?
Speaker 14: Yeah, what's a matter of scaling up. XB one was
Speaker 14: the first airliner that was actually built out of proven
Speaker 14: airliner technology that scales up to build a supersonic airliner,
Speaker 14: and so we're just scaling up. So next next milestone
Speaker 14: is a full scale engine around the end of this year.
Speaker 14: Next milestone after that is construction of the first full
Speaker 14: scale airliner. That's next year. We want to roll it
Speaker 14: out in twenty seven, flight in twenty eight, conduct extensive testing,
Speaker 14: and be ready for passengers by the end of twenty nine.
Speaker 2: Blake, before we let you go, how capital intensive is
Speaker 2: this view and what are your capitol requirements in terms
Speaker 2: of raising new funds?
Speaker 14: Building airplanes is certainly capital intensive, But what we've found
Speaker 14: is a small, focused team, enabled with great people AI
Speaker 14: design tools can do this about ten times more efficiently
Speaker 14: than the big guys can. XB one was designed, built
Speaker 14: and flown by a team of about just fifty people
Speaker 14: with about a tenth of the capital ever used before
Speaker 14: to create a supersonic aircraft. So we will continue to
Speaker 14: need capital, but it's a shockingly small amount compared to
Speaker 14: it you would see.
Speaker 2: At a bow In or Earbus Boom Supersonic CEO Blake Show,
Speaker 2: Great to have you here on Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. Don't
Speaker 2: forget check out the podcast. So many of you listen
Speaker 2: to this show as a podcast. You know where to
Speaker 2: find it on Apple, Spotify, iHeart and of course on
Speaker 2: all the Bloomberg platforms. Big, big focus on AI infrastructure
Speaker 2: as the President makes his way through the Middle East,
Speaker 2: but from San Francisco, this is Bloomberg Technology.