WEBVTT - The What Ifs 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:07.360 UM. So we've we've had some discussions on the topic 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:11.040 of if if, and you know what that has, you 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:13.680 know what impact that has on on on a career, 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.599 and you know, if certain things had happened, how wold 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.400 things have potentially turned out. I know that you're a 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.079 firm believer in the fact that at the end of 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:27.200 the day, the record book is what's written down on 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.720 paper and not what could have happened if something else 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.080 had not happened. And I think that that's very true 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:36.680 for certain golfers. I mean, you know, if we talk 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.800 about Tiger Woods, UM, you know, if he had one, 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:42.320 if he had not had the injuries he'd had and 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:44.640 any of the indiscretions, he may have gone on to 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.559 in twenty plus majors, but as the record stands, he's 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:53.800 got fifteen. So on that point, UM, And one of 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:55.960 the IF talking points that I thought we should cover 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:01.120 was you had a very special relationship with Hogan. UM. 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:04.479 I think from what from what I understand, he wasn't 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.480 the most friendly or inviting human being around. UM. So 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.000 if you had any of his affection, it was it 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:13.600 was it was rare. And I know you've got some 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.240 stories about that. UM. But the first talking point I 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:21.520 want to talk about was, like I said, Hogan was 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:23.920 was was was hard to get through too. And his 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:27.880 he had started the bed Hogan Equipment Company, and he 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.240 had made an offer to you to to endorse and 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:36.280 play his his his his clubs and equipment, and you 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:38.480 turned that down at a time where you needed a 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:44.200 bit more money. But in hindsight that often may have 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.080 had bigger impacts on your game. And if you had 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:51.640 signed with Hogan, what do you think would have happened. Well, 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:55.200 first of all, James, let's uh, but a little bit 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:58.320 more emphasis on ifs. You know people that have been 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.080 married and are unhappy and they had had a girlfriend 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.000 to choose from, and they say, if only I'd chosen 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:08.920 the other girl, I'd be happy today. Businesses, if I 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.639 had made the right decision, I wouldn't have lost all 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.959 this abount of money, if I had taken the right 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.920 club at the twelfth Hold of Augusta. As we know 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:20.840 that hold has prevented a lot of people from winning. 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:26.320 If that, if it's you know, if it's the dreaded word, 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.400 because it's the bottom line in any business accounts. You 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:32.919 can't go along and tell me what a great business 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:35.440 you had. If I've done that, you look at it. 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:39.160 It's the bottom line in life. And talking about Ben Hogan, 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.760 who I sincerely believe, I mean I played with a 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.800 man like Tommy Armore, which is almost I don't know 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:51.000 seventy years ago, played with Gene Sarah's and sat with 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:55.440 Bobby Jones. Many of the great players of the past 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:58.320 that are young people today don't realize quite how great 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:01.280 they were. But be that as it may, ben Hogan, 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:05.760 having watched him and played with him, and watching him 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:09.520 use the lazy equipment and LaSIE ball spike marks on 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.760 the green fairway mower is not good green mowers, bunk 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.800 is not raped like they are today, no prize money. 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.200 Traveling by car and watching him play golf, I never 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:22.200 saw anybody that could hit the ball like he did. 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.720 It was absolutely remarkable. He knew more about the swing 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.760 than anybody I'd ever met in my life. I met 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:31.079 a lot of people that are very knowledgeable, but he's 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.520 the only man I met that knows a swing from 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:37.000 A to Z A lot, no from A to yuh. 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:38.720 And I'm gonna come back to the the ifs, but 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:41.880 it's important to make you understand how great he was. 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.080 I hear people talking about the swing, and I hear 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:48.760 so much nonsense about the swing. It's quite unbelievable. But 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.720 now take Hogan. He wins nine major championships in his career, 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:57.800 but the war breaks out and he and Sam Snead 0:03:57.840 --> 0:03:59.600 and a host of others have got to go to war. 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:05.920 So Hogan now doesn't play for five years and majors 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.640 and then comes back and has the most dreadful accident, 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:14.440 a life threatening accident, and he basically doesn't play in 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:19.360 a major championship, uh, approximately thirty two, and he's pride, 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.360 and he's pride. Now everybody, you know, we said, if 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:26.360 only he never had that accident. Well, it's unfortunate that 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.080 he had the accident, but it will always be remembered 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.280 that he won nine majors. A lot of people won't 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.440 even know that he went to war. Imagine telling Tiger 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:36.520 Woods that he had to go to war. Would he 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.320 had one x amount of majors? And you know, you 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:43.040 can't imagine that. So all these ifs, I mean, if 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:48.480 you look at the Grand Slam, Sam sneed, he if 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.640 only he'd made a part, if only he had made 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:56.200 a bogey in Pennsylvania to win the US Open. They 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.080 didn't have scoreboards in those days like now, so he 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.080 thought he need at a birdie to win the US Open, 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.200 and all he needed was a bogey. So then you 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:07.720 go and you're long, and you see if Tom Watson 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.520 had only won the p G A of Arnold Palmer, 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.160 the only one that p G A. Uh, you can 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.839 go on with all these people that's so close to 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:21.760 winning the Grand Slam. Their players today, Rory McIlory needs 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.719 it about for Michaels And there's a great if if 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.479 any second five times in the US Open, if only 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:31.160 he had won one time, but he never and so 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.359 it doesn't go down in the record book as a 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:37.080 Grand Slam. There are so many ifs in this sport. 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.880 It's unbelievable. And one has got to try and train 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.600 your mind to realize when you first start, no, if, no, 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:50.160 if they don't count. So the first thing I did 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:51.960 want to ask was maybe you can give a bit 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:56.440 of light on when you first met Hogan Um and 0:05:56.440 --> 0:06:00.320 and how that came about. I played in the US Opened, 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:04.480 my first US Open ever. It's Southern Hills in Oklahoma, 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:10.400 very hot. The rough was the highest rough I've ever 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:14.400 seen in a major that and in Alabama when we 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:20.880 played the p GA there. But I played with him 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:25.640 the first dis holes and I was a bit nervous, obviously, 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:28.440 and I went on to the first heat. I said 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.320 good morning, sir, and I took my head. He said 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:36.400 morning fella. Uh. And then on the thirty six hole, 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:38.799 I was lying sick into Tommy Bolt at that stage, 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.479 and I played very well. He said, well played, son. 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.960 So he said five words basically in thirty six holes. 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.599 And somebody said, well, why was he so talkative? He 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.359 normally doesn't say anything. But I was sitting in the 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:55.920 locker room and his back towards to me. He tapped 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:57.359 me on the shoulder and I turned around in his 0:06:57.440 --> 0:06:59.800 face was right here against mine, and he said, you 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:02.560 go and be a great player one day's son. And 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:04.599 I said, Mr Hogan, you don't know what that means 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:06.920 to me. And then he was going into the locker 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.479 into the dining room from the locker room, and he 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:12.800 was cambly dressed, and he had his jacket half on 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.720 his shoulders and half off. And Nicholas always loves the 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:19.160 story because Nicholas knows that I hit more balls than 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.960 any human being ever. And Hogan turned around. He said, 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.280 you you practice hard, son. I wanted to say, just 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.040 as hard as you do, and I just said yes, sir, 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:30.160 and he says, double it, and he walked into the 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.880 dining room. Now, it's not possible to have doubled what 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:36.840 I did, but he was a very unusual man. He 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:41.120 then sent one of his representatives to ask me if 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.040 i'd sign up with the Ben Hogan Company at two 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.840 thousand dollars a year. Remember this is this is sixty 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.480 years ago, so if you look at inflation, it's not 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:55.360 that bad. At the time, it wasn't that bad. But Vivian, 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.200 my wife, and I were traveling back and forth to 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:01.760 South Africa and around the world. We needed money to travel, 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:05.600 and that same day first light man called Jack Hawkins 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.840 offered me nine thousand, and I pondered and pondered, and 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.720 I took the nine thousand. Did I do the right thing? 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:16.480 I don't know. If I'd taken the two thousand, I 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.920 would have probably ended up living in America, having a 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:24.040 house next to Hogan, and he would have put me 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:28.360 under my wing and with his knowledge things that I 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.239 found out that he did at the age of seventy, 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.120 I might have one, not might have a definitely would 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.680 have won more majors because I wouldn't have had to 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.480 do all the exhausting travel with no jets, forty hours 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:46.280 from here to South Africa, no earphones, no TV, with 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:50.600 all those children, six children traveling. Would have made a 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.280 big difference in my life. But you can't go back 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.839 and say if it didn't happen, it was such an 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.280 honor that Hogan because he didn't have anybody else, he 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.520 didn't sign up, he didn't believe in it at that stage, 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.160 and what an honor for him to offer me. My 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:08.800 goodness me and I look back in retrospect and say, well, 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.640 if I'd sided with him, what would have happened? But 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:16.120 I've had a wonderful life, very happy life, great family, 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:21.720 great wife, and hundred and sixty five tournaments and also 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:23.679 to be the early man in the world to win 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:25.959 the Grand Slam on both to it, How much more 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:30.319 success could I have? Well, I mean, Hogan always spoke, well, 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.760 the rumor is that he'd found the secret to the swing, 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.960 you know, he'd and he never did divulge that information 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.559 to to anyone um, you know, So whether he'd found 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.880 the secret, and maybe you can shed some lights on 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.520 on on on what you think that secret might have been. 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:52.040 But had he say in his early we need signed 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.480 you up, and he'd spoken in your prime about what 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.960 may have been the secret that may have had, you know, 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.440 it's hard to quantify the impact of that might have 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.439 had on your game. Well, that's right, and he uh, 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:09.320 he did a story in a Life magazine where he 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:11.640 had the club face very open at the top of 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:16.640 the back swing, and he had the great rotation of 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:20.520 his left side into the ball. But you see what 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:24.439 he did have as a thing called it um. I've 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:28.240 only seen about in my seventy years of playing, about 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.880 fifteen players plus minus that have got it. Now, what 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:36.439 is it? Iicon describe it? You watch your man like 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.720 Lee Trevino, he aims a hundred yards left at the 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:46.440 target and next to Hogan from t to green, he 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.920 was the finest striker of a ball that I saw. 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:55.400 So there's so many different theories. But but Hogan definitely 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.800 had a secret. And you've got to have a swing 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.000 that works under pressure. Now, it's one thing to play 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:05.800 arounds in practice and score low and even go as 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.840 far as winning a few majors. But you've got to 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.120 have a swing that's going to work under pressure. And 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.240 there's certain things and the golf thing that allow you 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:19.400 to work under pressure. And wouldn't like to get into that. 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.679 Now that's a long thing, a long story. But I've 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.600 learned so much of the swing, you know, having hit 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:29.160 more balls and being around all these top players, and 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.920 I've learned so much about the swing that my goodness 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.199 me Hogan he was the genius of all times. But 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.240 you're talking about Trevina. If if he'd won the Masters, 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:41.800 you know, you can have Arnold Palmer won the p 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:45.000 g A. There must be fifty ifs that I can 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.360 give you in my career. There's so many potential ifs. 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:53.080 If you if you consider how the Augusta Nationals prepared 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.240 these days, and the quality of the greens and the 0:11:55.280 --> 0:12:00.320 quality of the bankers um and just generally golf torn months. 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:02.960 You know, when Hogan was in his prime, there were 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.559 times where you couldn't fix pitchmarks on the green um. 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.440 You know, now people are tapping down spike marks. So 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:14.679 had had Hogan played in this era, what you know, 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.240 if he had played, what would how many majors would 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.920 he have one. That's a very good point. I remember 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.240 Wotherdy playing golf. When you're ball buried in the green, 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:28.840 you had to play it. I remember my brother in law, 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:34.120 Bobby Verwait playing at that at the Open, the British 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.360 Open and at Birkedale, and he hit his in the 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:39.640 very first hole he had. He's bought his third wedge 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.719 shot and had buried in the green fifteen foot from 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.080 the flag. And he called for a ruling. Can I 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.599 get relief? And the RNA man came out and said, no, 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:49.240 you've got to play it was buried in the green. 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.560 He took out his sad wedge and two inches behind, 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.120 took a big swipe, came out of a hundred miles 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:56.720 and now hit the flag and went in the hole. 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.679 From then on they realized we've got to change that. 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.600 There were some prehistoric rules in golf. If you tip 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.079 the sand as you were going back and the back 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:08.559 string and the bunk, it was a two short penalty 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.160 you hit the ball out of bounds. He had to 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.800 play three from the tea and get a man standing 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.120 next to you. He whipped the ball and he played two. 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.480 You had a great shot and luckily it bounced out 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:20.679 of bounds and another man with the ball, and he 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.640 was better off than you are. So thank goodness to 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:25.240 the R and A and the U. S. T. A. 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.920 In the PGA. They've come to the conclusion they've had 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.960 a continuously changed rules. Think about putting the spike marks 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:33.960 on the green. I mean there were two hundred spiker 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.439 They didn't have lowers to cut the green. I mean 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.920 the fairways that Augusta were terrible. I remember the thirteenth hold. 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.200 I could easily have gone. I played Arnold Palmer in 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.600 the playoffs and the thirteenth hold we were almost even. 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:50.240 No I was still I was ahead of him at 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:54.120 that stage and I had to lay up. I couldn't 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.560 go for the green. It was allows he led. The 0:13:56.640 --> 0:14:00.840 greens were slow and roughish, rough. How you've got greens 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:03.680 that are well. I never dreamt I would ever see 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:05.719 a green like that. Hogan never dreamt he would see 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.640 a green like it. The fairway is impeccable, not a wee. 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:13.800 Bunker's absolutely raked with a machine. And they the same 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:19.600 depth in Timber two in South Africa, Australian America. She 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.920 was I just think the advancements that that have been 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:36.280 made in the game. It's remarkable and it's great. What 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.040 is new today is the ball goes fifty yards further 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.440 and the clubs. I mean, here I am if I 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.320 missed one fairway a day, I'm upset. I couldn't do 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.280 that in my prime. Golf is so much easier today. 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:51.960 It's a joke. I'd love to have seen what had 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:56.440 happened if Sam's need Lee, Trevina, Tom Watson. But do 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.880 you not do you not think that you know, obviously 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.520 it's easy to look back and say, well, if these 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.960 guys had had this, this technology, what they would have done. 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.600 But the fact that the game was so difficult because 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.800 of the equipment that Hogan and you know, Bobby Jones 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.960 and those kind of those guys played with. Don't you 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.440 think that that kind of you know, took them to 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:21.920 a level where they had to figure things out because, 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.920 for example, the secret, you know what, whatever whatever Hogan's 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.200 secret was to the game, he had to figure it 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.080 out because he had to understand the swing to on 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.360 a level that was um that was required of him 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.560 because the equipment was so difficult. You had to swing 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:39.360 almost perfectly to to to be able to play exactly. 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.920 I see players today, and I've seen them playing and 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.040 they would in golf dourments and I see three faults 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:47.320 and they're swing three faults in their swing, and yet 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.080 they continue to win golf. If you had that three 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.440 faults when you played with the equipment, then the old 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:54.720 days you certainly wouldn't be able to win golf tournaments. 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:59.640 Of course they can recover. You know today some players 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.840 are geniuses from fifty yards and might not be in 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.800 the top fifty on the turn striking the ball. I 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:07.560 can think of a player on the tour now he's 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:11.360 not He probably is probably the worst player from t 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.600 to green on the tour, but he's a phenomenal player 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.640 from fifty yards in so you can get away with it. 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.560 So the short game, it was never forget. The short 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:25.280 game is what wins golf torments. If you you talk 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:30.760 about at the tourment and Revera, you talk about Arnold 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:35.760 Partner's tournament, well, particularly Arnold's Partners tourment in Orlando, they 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.040 were talking about the Golf channel. All they spoke about 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:43.640 was the great distance that the shambro was hitting the ball. 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.920 I love Deschambre. He's a gentleman, he's a smart, smart, 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.520 smarter than anybody playing golf today. He's a very very 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:57.560 highly intelligent man, and he's worked out things that are phenomenal. 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.720 But they spoke about all they spoke about the long driving, 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.240 and there that he was playing with the Westward and 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.800 Lee Westward lost by one shot and he put his 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:08.720 ball in a divot on the last hole and couldn't 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:11.239 even shoot for the flag. The thing that won the 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:15.679 tourment for deschambro he padded like Tarzan. They've admitted to 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:19.720 say during the tournament the reason deschambro one was because 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:24.159 he putted like Tarzan. All they spoke about, well, he 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.040 was out driving Westward by ninety yards, so over the 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.720 entire week, the way they were talking, you would have 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.919 thought he would have beaten Westward by fifteen shots. No, 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.840 he beat him by one shot, and Westwood made a 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:38.879 five on a par five with a seven iron in 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:40.800 his hand and hitting the ball in a divot on 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.840 the last hole. Putting is what wins golf tourments, and 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.480 the great mind, the thing called it, and not many 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.760 people have blessed with that thing called it can on 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.600 that point, and you can, you obviously can speak further 0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:02.359 to this point. But Hogan was an incredible ball striker. 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:04.440 I mean, you've got stories of you know what Sam 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.720 Seed was saying about him hitting the ball in the 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.640 same to it that he played the day before, and 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.560 I think you mentioned was it continusity where he was 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.679 hitting his his drive between the bunker and and the 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.919 out of barsteak And you can hopefully can tell us 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:25.479 so stories. Um. But from the books I've read on Hogan, 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.800 he his putting wasn't his his strength, and in his 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:35.159 book The Five Fundamentals, apparently he doesn't even talk about putting. Um, 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.520 how do you think he was so successful without, you know, 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.159 on the fact that his putting actually wasn't his strength. 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.439 To the contrary, when he was a young man and 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.240 Plague his best, he was a very good pattern but 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.239 he got the yips quite early in his career and 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.480 he was very much engaged putting that he believed that 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:55.600 a green you should hit a green and it should 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.280 be like a final and run into the hole. Well, 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.480 you know that's too extreme. But to give you an 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.879 idea of how well he hit the ball, card Noosti, 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:08.840 which is one of the toughest golf courses in the world. 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.439 The six holes of our five is out of bounds 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:15.200 on the left and pot bunkers just to the right, 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:19.840 and the width of the fairway is probably yards. And 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.440 he put the ball between the outer bounds and that bunker. 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:27.240 Every day in the torment, nobody tried it. They all 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:29.400 have the ball well to the right and the banker, 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:34.120 uh and never even thought about doing that. Now, this man, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.680 the shots that he played, and the way he swung 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.359 the club. If you, if anybody wants to see the 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:46.160 greatest swring ever, just get Hogan swinging at the British Open, 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:52.280 the Open, and and you'll realize just what an incredible 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:56.119 swing he had. And and and you have a story 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:04.120 about Sneed and and what our Sneed fells about. Um, 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.200 he was always quite I don't know where it is. 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.400 Word is jealous or envious or irritated. And I think 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.440 that the word was irritated because when Sneed and Hogan 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.959 went met in playoffs, Steed always beat him, except Hogan 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.920 beat him at Houston and in a match TV match. 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:25.040 But they said to Sneed, you know, Sam, that Ben 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.600 Hogan hits the ball so straight that he puts his 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:30.920 drive and the same divant he was yesterday, he said, 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:33.119 if only, if he's that straight, why doesn't he hit 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.440 to the right or the left of the divot? And 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:39.320 you know he irritated him quite a lot that But 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.399 Sam Snead was the greatest athlete they've ever played golf. 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:45.480 And those days they didn't have gyms that you're on 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.840 the tour where you could conveniently go to after your 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.280 round of golf. At sixty five, he would kicked the 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:55.400 door in the locker room. He would walk in and 0:20:55.640 --> 0:21:01.159 touch the ground flat handed. He would uh, he'd be 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.120 able to take a ball out of the cup. He'd 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:05.240 take the ball out of a cup with his legs straight. 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.000 This man was a piece of rubber and he was strong. 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.520 And if it wasn't there again, if it wasn't for 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:13.879 the war, he would have definitely won the Grand Slam, 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.600 not not even a question about it. But it's it's 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:21.560 the it's actually if equals said, if equals said, but 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:25.240 it's a reality, isn't isn't that? Isn't that part of 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.720 a life? I mean, you've got gifts of your own. Um. 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.439 You know, at the end of the day, a lot 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:33.840 of yts um. And it is it is sad because 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:35.200 you know it would be nice if they weren't. In 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:39.360 years things that, regardless of you are in your life, 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:43.280 there will always been if the rules of life. If 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:47.560 I traveled from South Africa to America five six times 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:51.440 a year in those non jets, and I lived in America, 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:53.960 I would have definitely one more majors, not even a 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:57.600 question about it. But I wanted to be with my family, 0:21:57.640 --> 0:21:59.680 and it was tough traveling. I mean, can you imagine 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:05.880 you're granny traveling with six children's taking forty hours and 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:09.679 traveling at two D thirty miles. So, I mean, there 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:11.959 are a lot of ifs about it. If I mean right, 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.639 that applies so, and you know, I think about it 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:18.120 all the time, all these ifs that occurred in in 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:24.600 my seventy years as a professional golfer. It's quite remarkable. Um, 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:27.480 I wanted to ask. The one thing I found quite 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:29.960 interesting about Hogan was how long it took him to 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:35.400 actually become a winner. You know, he took a long time, 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:37.840 and he struggled. He didn't do particularly well for the 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:40.960 first I don't know, probably decade of his career, and 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:44.280 then you know, once he started winning, he became more prolific. 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:47.800 Why you know, for someone who was so talented and 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:51.240 had worked so hard. What do you think, what do 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:52.720 you think was the reason that it took him so 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:55.840 long to win? And why did it start happening, and 0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:59.400 why was he then so unbeatable when it did start happening. Well, 0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:02.159 first of all, all he played golf with quite a 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:09.400