1 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and 2 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Thursday, March twenty sixth, 3 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am 4 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: co editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm 5 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: in LA He's in New York, and Variety has reporters 6 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: around the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode, 7 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: we'll hear from Variety's Todd Spangler and Gene Modis as 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: we unpack the story behind open AI's decision to pull 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: the plug on its Sora generative AI video service. That 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: decision led to a huge sigh of relief within Disney. 11 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: The Mouse House had planned to do a big character 12 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: licensing deal with open Ai, but now that's all a 13 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: big nevermind. We try to make sense of it all 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: and figure out where Disney stands on generative AI video tools. 15 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: But before we get to that, here are a few 16 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: headlines just in this morning that you need to know. 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: The oscars are on the move. The Academy of Motion 18 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: Picture Arts and Sciences has struck a deal with the 19 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: Peacock Theater in the downtown La Live Complex. To bring 20 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: the Big Show there starting in twenty twenty nine for 21 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: a ten year run. That means goodbye Dolby Theater. After 22 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: two more ceremonies, Warner Brothers Discovery has set the date 23 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: April twenty third for its shareholder vote on the sale. 24 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: To Paramount's guidance, it's hard to see a scenario in 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: which they don't approve this transaction, but you never know. 26 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: It ain't over till it's over. Macafans like me can 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: rejoice today. Paul McCartney has dropped a new song titled 28 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: Days We Left Behind. It's coming out ahead of his 29 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: first new album in six years, The Boys of Dungeon Lane, 30 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: which is out May twenty ninth. My great colleague Chris 31 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: Wilman reports that the song days We Left Behind is 32 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: packed with all kinds of Easter eggs about the Beatles 33 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: and Liverpool and other good things. And here's some news 34 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: that would make merv Griffin smile. Jeopardy is launching a 35 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: new incarnation of the show on YouTube. The first episode 36 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: of the Jeopardy YouTube edition will drop March thirty first 37 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: and feature contestants drawn from the Creator verse. This version 38 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: will be hosted by Ken Jennings, and the first batch 39 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: of contestants are Monet Exchange, Becca Black, and Brennan Lee Mulligan. 40 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: My colleague Stephen Horowitz published a great story today about 41 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: the trend of clipping in music marketing. It's all about 42 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: driving impressions and buzz for new tunes. It's detailed and fascinating. 43 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: All of these stories and so much more can be 44 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: found on Variety dot com Right now. 45 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: Some breaking news from the Walt Disney Company and OpenAI. 46 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: The two reaching what they're calling a landmark agreement to 47 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 2: bring more than two hundred characters to the Open Ai 48 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: Sora platform. 49 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 1: It started with a lot of fanfare in December, Disney 50 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: inksteeal with Open Ai. That is a sign of future 51 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: times for Hollywood in the age of Ai, except that 52 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: it wasn't. On Tuesday of this week, OpenAI pulled the 53 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: plug on its video Pandora's box named Sora. It turns 54 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: out that SOA was proving to be a big distraction 55 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: for open am, which is busy preparing for an IPO 56 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: that is expected later this year. Gene Modis, Variety's head 57 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: legal writer and business editor, Todd Spangler, joined me now 58 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: to dive into what's behind the surprising move by Sam 59 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: Altman's Ai Bamuth and y sag after it deserves to 60 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: take a victory lap. Todd Spangler and Gene Madis, thank 61 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: you for putting your heads together with me and trying 62 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: to help sort out what is happening with open Ai 63 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: and Sora and Disney, or I guess we should really 64 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: ask what is not happening? Todd, you wrote our breaking 65 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: news coverage of this as it all went down on Tuesday. 66 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: Catch us up on what went down, and then we'll 67 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: talk about what we've learned in the last thirty six hours. 68 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 3: Was really a surprise Open Ai rather said seemingly out 69 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 3: of nowhere that the Sora app was going to be 70 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 3: shut down, and that was that they didn't really provide 71 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 3: any explanation for that. Disney had gotten some heads up 72 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 3: that this was happening, and they had a statement ready 73 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 3: to go saying they support the decision by Opening Eye 74 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 3: to step away from video generation, but that they were 75 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 3: still keeping their options open in terms of what they 76 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 3: would do next in terms of AI platforms. 77 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: So basically a big never mind from open Ai, which 78 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: absolutely does not compute. I mean, obviously they had to 79 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: put resources and time into launching this thing. We all 80 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: remember the impact that Sarah made. It launched a thousand 81 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: think pieces about what does this mean for the future 82 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: of content creation? Gene, You've covered a lot of this 83 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: from the legal, from the regulatory, and from the union perspective. 84 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: What was the mood in your feed after this news 85 00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: broke Well, I. 86 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 4: Guess confusion would be. You know, AI has been such 87 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 4: a central issue in labor negotiations, certainly in the strikes 88 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 4: even now they're currently in negotiations with both WGA and SAG, 89 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 4: and AI is a key part of both of those negotiations. 90 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 4: And Sora really was like exhibit A in terms of 91 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 4: this threat being made manifest Like here, it's not just 92 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 4: a theoretical thing anymore. Here they're actually doing it. And 93 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 4: now to hear well, never mind is sort of disorienting 94 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 4: and confusing, and maybe these rules that we're trying to 95 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 4: draft up aren't relevant in the same way anymore. It's 96 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 4: very destabilizing, just disorienting. 97 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: Does Soora going away at least for now, does that 98 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: at all make it easier? Does that take any of 99 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: the tension away from this issue, especially for SAG after. 100 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 4: I think because of the way it happened. It's sort 101 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 4: of like catching your boyfriend trying to cheat on you. 102 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 4: You know, the fact that he didn't actually successfully do 103 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 4: it is not that relevant. The fact is that he 104 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 4: wanted to. And so the fact that open ai basically 105 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 4: unilaterally shut down doesn't mean Disney doesn't want to do this. 106 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 4: It just means that this version of it didn't pan out. 107 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 4: So you know, maybe they want to do it with 108 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 4: you know, Byte Dance or something next, So who knows. 109 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 4: I think the threat is still there. It's just still 110 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 4: a little confusing as to what actually is going to happen. 111 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: But interesting when the surprise headline from open ai came out, 112 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: there was immediate speculation that Disney must have had something 113 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: to do with it, and from the reporting that I've done, 114 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: it really seems to be indicative of some larger issues 115 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: that open ai, more so than Disney saying, wait, this 116 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: isn't going to work. And I think the depth of 117 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: open AI's problems and the challenges that it has from 118 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: Anthropic and other upstart competitors in the core business of 119 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: its AI models, of its chat prompts, of the AI 120 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: agents that are now really coming into focus as the 121 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: things that are going to further push this technology ahead. 122 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: All of that, the senses that open ai has become 123 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: so in the fish bowl that they have lost their 124 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: focus and that the video project was a distraction. 125 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 3: Think about it. One of the main things here is 126 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 3: that this type of generative AI for video is extremely 127 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 3: compute intensive. It takes a lot of processing power. So 128 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 3: I think what happened was open aie. As you said, 129 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 3: they looked at their business prospects. They're reportedly looking at 130 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 3: doing an IPO in twenty twenty six, and so they'll 131 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,679 Speaker 3: have to show investors what they're spending on and what's 132 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 3: actually making money. So here was this very high cost 133 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 3: product that had, as you already mentioned, you know, these 134 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 3: sort of rights issues involved in it that maybe weren't 135 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 3: going to be cleared up very cleanly. There wasn't necessarily 136 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 3: a clear path to monetizing it either, so I think 137 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 3: they refocused on something, you know, the parts of the 138 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 3: business that they see what will make the most money. 139 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: Open ai and Anthropic have been out in the marketplace 140 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: raising money, and it does seem like that the AI boom, 141 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: the debate around it is crystallizing that need that these 142 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: companies this cannot be the dot com bus. These companies 143 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: need to show a path to making money, and Anthropic 144 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: has been in the headlines with its battles with the Pentagon, 145 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: but one of the issues that OpenAI is facing is 146 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: that there have been a lot of people moving to Anthropic. 147 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: And one todbit that I do know on good authority 148 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: was that the one big hiccup in the idea of 149 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: licensing all these classic Disney characters for use in Sora 150 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: was the voices. They licensed Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker 151 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: and Buzz Lightyear and and other iconic characters that were 152 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: not associated with a human likeness. And they said at 153 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: the time it wouldn't involve voices, but I guess as 154 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: it got into the practical use, it became clear that 155 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: it was, as somebody described to me, a pretty cheesy 156 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: experience to have a Darth Vader authorized image but not 157 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: have the voice of James Earl Jones doing the Darth Vader. 158 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: And I'm told that in their very earliest discussions with 159 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: estates of famous people and the stars like the Frozen characters, 160 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: that's Kristen Bell and Adina Menzel and those folks and 161 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: their representatives were not in any way rushing to do 162 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: a deal. So I think from Disney's perspective, there was 163 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: a realization even before SA went away that this could 164 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: really be more on the cheesy side than the good side, 165 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: and so there was no love for this. And also 166 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: now Disney has a spare billion dollars to. 167 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 3: Your point about the user experience, who was asking for this? 168 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 3: How many people were raising their hands to say, hey, 169 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 3: we want to make Mickey Mouse say and do specific things. 170 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 3: What is the economic value of that or is it 171 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 3: just for fun? And given a legal and licensing headaches 172 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 3: a tenant in this thing, I think this is Disney 173 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 3: dodging a bullet at this time. 174 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 4: The other thing I want to point out, there's a 175 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 4: sort of consensus around you know, what AI is actually 176 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 4: going to be good for in Hollywood is reducing costs. Right, 177 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 4: You'll be able to do so much more for so 178 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 4: much less. And I think this is sort of an 179 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 4: argument that it can be quite costly to do this, 180 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 4: and it might not pencil out. And just because you 181 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 4: say AI, that is not a magic wand that just 182 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 4: eliminates costs from the equation. 183 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: I think there had to be concerns at Disney, What 184 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: does it mean when all of this user generated content 185 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: gets into the groundwater in five years time, in ten 186 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: years time, how do you note what's a legit lucasfilm 187 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: produced short versus something that was produced by somebody in 188 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: twenty minutes in their basement. 189 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 3: Clearly, the line here that Disney was trying to dance 190 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 3: was how do they control the experience and keep it 191 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 3: in a sandbox where the brands are safe and they're 192 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 3: not doing weird or strange things or dropping f bombs 193 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 3: things like that, but also make it fun and interesting 194 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 3: for people to use. And I don't know where that 195 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 3: line might be or if it exists, but now they 196 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 3: get another chance to examine that. 197 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: Somebody else point out to me that the Sore deal 198 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: also came the same day that Disney got aggressive in 199 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: its copyright infringement litigation against Google and it's various AI 200 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: and just general online programs gene. Where does it stand. 201 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: There's a lot of copyright related litigation against some of 202 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: the bigger AI firms. Getty Images has been part of 203 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: a big case. Is there anything that is ripe to 204 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: come to court or anything that you're watching for a 205 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: ruling that you think is also going to be significant 206 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: around these issues. 207 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 4: I think we're still in very early innings on that question. 208 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 4: There have been a couple of federal rulings just at 209 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 4: the district court level saying you know, broadly that you 210 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 4: know it doesn't look like training is infringement, but it's 211 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,719 Speaker 4: a very sort of fact specific type inquiry and there 212 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 4: could be situations where it is. So that's still very uncertain. 213 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 4: That is a key provision that both SAG and the 214 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 4: WGA are trying to get into their labor contracts is 215 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 4: that if the studios are you know, feeding their scripts 216 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 4: into an AI model, then they want to be paid 217 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 4: for that. And same with zag Aftra. Is something that 218 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 4: people are striving for is this idea of like, if 219 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 4: you're going to put all my creative output into a 220 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 4: big soup, then I should be paid for that. And 221 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 4: in a way, the open Ai deal was sort of 222 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 4: because open Ai, with entering into a licensing agreement for 223 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 4: the Disney characters, at least set down the little bit 224 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 4: of a precedent that this is something that you have 225 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 4: to license through an actual contractual agreement and not something 226 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 4: you can just steal. So I think people were taking 227 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 4: that as a positive step in the right direction and 228 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 4: some level, but even in that deal, Disney was not 229 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 4: granting open AI, you know, an unlimited right to mash 230 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 4: up all of their IP into a model and feed 231 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 4: it out willy nilly, like they served the right to 232 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 4: sue over that. So it's very confused at the moment, 233 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 4: I think is the key word in terms of like 234 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 4: what is actually allowed before we even get to the 235 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 4: question of what would people want to use this for 236 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 4: and would that use be profitable? 237 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: And in terms of what allowed The twenty twenty three 238 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: cycle of Hollywood union contracts that we know was hard fought, 239 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: many months of strike, but that cycle that what emerged 240 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: from that were some rules of the road in terms 241 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: of consent and compensation that influenced this situation. Fact that 242 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: the performers in question needed to give their express consent 243 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: that came from the SAG after union agreement correct. 244 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 4: Indeed, I mean you know SAG After it should be said, 245 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 4: took a lot of internal blowback for even you know, 246 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 4: countenancing the existence of AI or like agreeing that in 247 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 4: certain circumstances it might be beneficial. But what they did 248 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 4: really in hindsight now seems very prescient in terms of 249 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 4: establishing this per project consent so that, like you know, 250 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 4: James Earl Jones, for instance, just because he agreed to 251 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 4: appear in Star Wars fifty years ago, that does not 252 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 4: mean you can use his voice today in an AI 253 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 4: regeneration of Darth Vader, and SAG is the one that 254 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 4: made that a reality, so you know their role in 255 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 4: this is very important. 256 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: Todd, do you think there's any world where Disney is 257 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: trying to build its own proprietary, walled garden version of Sora. 258 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 3: I think they have probably contemplated that and may even 259 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 3: be trying to build it themselves. But again, what is 260 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 3: the business case for this and how does it jump 261 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 3: to the bottom line? I think those are questions that 262 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 3: they were trying to get the answer to in working 263 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 3: with Open AI on this project really was a trial 264 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 3: balloon to see if they could play offense in AI 265 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 3: in addition to playing defense on the legal front. 266 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: We could talk for another hour about this. It is 267 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: fascinating stuff, and I'm just going to close with a 268 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: plug for it's not a Disney product, It's actually a 269 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: focus feature from Universal. I saw earlier this week the 270 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: AI doc or how I became an apocaly optimist, and 271 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: it did a great job of just laying out what's 272 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: at stake, the parameters, the pros, and the cons of 273 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: what's going on here. Found it very, very helpful for 274 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: interpreting the headlines. And this is certainly not the last 275 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: that we're going to hear about open AI and anthropic 276 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: and changing the game for entertainment. So so appreciate having 277 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: you two veteran, thoughtful reporters on the case for us. 278 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 3: Thanks Civia, Happy doing. 279 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: As we close out today's episode, here's a few things 280 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: we're watching for On Friday, please look out for my 281 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: Strictly Business podcast conversation with Brad Simpson and Nina Jacobson, 282 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: who are executive producers with Ryan Murphy of FX's Love Story. 283 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: The series tracking the love story of John F. Kennedy 284 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: Junior and Carolyn Bassett, comes to a close on Thursday 285 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: night with the show's powerful finale. We all know how 286 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: the story ended, but you've never seen it quite like this. 287 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: Simpson and Jacobson also talk about the business of producing 288 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: limited series and high end content in the age of contraction. 289 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: It's a good conversation, so please tune in, but fair 290 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: warning There will be spoilers related to the final episode 291 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: of Love Story, so don't listen until you've watched. If 292 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: you're in New York next week, don't miss the Museum 293 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: of Modern Arts tribute to avant garde director and writer 294 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: Amos Poe, who died in December. A group of his 295 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: friends and colleagues will pay tribute to Poe at the 296 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: Museum on April first, as part of its Film at 297 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: MoMA program. And a happy opening day of Major League 298 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: Baseball to all who celebrate, Go Dodgers. We love to 299 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: hear from our listeners, so please send thought, scripes and 300 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: other feedback about Daily Variety to podcasts at Variety dot 301 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: com before we go. Congrats to Attiyah Henry. She's been 302 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: promoted to executive vice president of Production for Disney branded Television. 303 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: She comes to Disney after spending the past seven years 304 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: at Netflix's working in physical production for the drama division. 305 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: Henry also had senior roles in production at Annapurna Pictures 306 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: and b E t Thanks for listening. This episode was 307 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: written and reported by me Cynthia Littleton, with contrabys from 308 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: Todd Spangler and Gene Mattis. Stick Snicks hick picks. Please 309 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: leave us a review at the podcast platform of your choice, 310 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 1: and please tune in Monday for another episode of Daily Variety.