1 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: Well, folks, friends and neighbors. Fellow would be apiarist. You 2 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: have heard the buzz, and the rumors are true. This 3 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: is ridiculous history. My name is Ben, my name is Knowl. 4 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: Not the bees, not the bees. They're in my eyes brown? 5 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: What is that? What is that? What is that? But 6 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: not the bears, not the bears. And we are of 7 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: course joined with our super producer, Casey Pegram Casey, thank you. 8 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: He just did a a lovely looking sparkling water in 9 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: our direction. And I'm a fan of toast and I've 10 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: got a weird anecdote to start this off. Coast. Yeah, yeah, toast, 11 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: both the prepared bread item and the act. I thought 12 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: you were like toast with honey. I get it toasts 13 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: like I like a like a cheers kind of motion. 14 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: I got you. I'm glad that you mentioned honey. Funny story. 15 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: There was a middle aged couple once upon a time 16 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: who decided to improve their sex life in two thousand eight. 17 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: They decided to do this and they spent a week 18 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: eating raw honey gathered from an area in your Turkey's 19 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: Black Sea, and it did not have the results that 20 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: they had hoped for. Not only raw honey, In fact, 21 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: in the abstract for this study UM entitled mad honey 22 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: sexual activity and acute inferior mio cardio in farctions in 23 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: a married couple, you see the you were there is 24 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: mad honey. That's because this particular honey is produced from 25 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: the nectar of the rhododendron flower or Rhododendron ponticum, which 26 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: is native to areas of Japan, Nepal, parts of North America, Europe, 27 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: and Brazil and as you mentioned then the Eastern Black 28 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: Sea region of Turkey, and this honey has some pretty 29 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: interesting qualities, right, Yeah, To go back to the story there, 30 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: the couple from the Black Sea did not have the 31 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: improved sex life that they felt they would. Instead, they 32 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: ended up in the hospital with symptoms mimicking heart attacks. 33 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: Due to its relatively obscure destroyer nol is introduced mad honey, 34 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: specifically mad honey poisoning this syrup. This substance is naturally 35 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: toxic and it does have a different taste, reportedly taste 36 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: more bitter than normal honey, and the toxicity UH varies 37 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: the ending upon when you gather it. It's higher when 38 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: you gather fresh honey in the springtime because that's when 39 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: those rhododendrons are among the first plants to bloom, so 40 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: bees are more likely to interact with those Some of 41 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: those interesting characteristics I mentioned, though, one of them is 42 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: that it apparently is used to treat erectile dysfunction, and 43 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: it's that particular reason is one of the big ones 44 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: that causes you know, folks in the age range of 45 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: these patients um to buy the stuff. And it's pretty 46 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: easy to buy online. But let's let's rewind the story 47 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: way back to when we first started hearing reports of 48 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: the effects of this type of honey. Right, this is 49 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: something that's easily purchased today, but it does have a 50 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: a razor's edge. It can go from intoxicating the lethal 51 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: with just a small variance of dose, and people have 52 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: been aware of it for a long long time. The 53 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: ancient Greek commander Xenophon, who led his army of ten 54 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: thousand soldiers from Persia back to Greece and four one BC, 55 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: prided himself on being the best, the utter last word, 56 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: when it came to finding healthy and safe campsites and 57 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: enemy territory. This is according to research scholar in classics 58 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: and history of science at Stanford named Adrian Mayor. She's 59 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: also luckily for our purposes. The author of a book 60 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: called The Poison King and a survey of ancient warfare 61 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: called Greek Fire, Poisoned Arrows and scorpion bombs, And according 62 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: to Professor Mayer, Xenophon noticed nothing unusual about the campsite 63 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: that he had chosen, in a place called Pontus on 64 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: the Black Sea coast in northeast Turkey. But he did 65 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: note an extraordinary number of swarming bees, and he said 66 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: that his men soon discovered the hives and went nuts 67 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: and bananas. They gorged on that sweet, sweet wild honey. 68 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: And then Xenophon, who was noted for his meticulous record keeping, 69 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that's true, but he definitely kept 70 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: them coarded. His observations of the way his troops behaved, 71 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: and the author Adrian mayer Um describes them as such. 72 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: He was appalled when his soldiers suddenly began to behave 73 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: like crazed madmen, and they collapsed on mass I'm assuming 74 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: in some sort of Greek heap. His entire army was 75 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: paralyzed and incapacitated for days, totally vulnerable to enemy attacks. So, 76 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: in other words, they were wasted and utter sitting ducks. 77 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: And with the benefit of modern science, we can crack 78 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: a little bit of the case. Here the honey they 79 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: were consuming, it was dark, reddish mad honeting appearance in Turkey. 80 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: It's called deli ball, and we can trace the act 81 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: of ingredient that's harming people. It's called grayanotoxin. Grannotoxins can 82 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: be found in honey produced from the nectar plants like 83 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: this specific sort of rhododendron, because they contain alkaloids that 84 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: are poisonous to humans. But as we're jumping back in time, Uh, Noel, 85 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: you said you had another example from a little bit 86 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: later in the timeline I do. In sixty seven b c. E. M. 87 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 1: Rome invaded the Black Sea region under the command of 88 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: General Pompey, new relation to the town No no Um. 89 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: But the the opposition forces, which were headed up by 90 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: the reigning king myth thread ats Um, they knew about 91 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: the area and the indigenous wildlife and flora and fauna, 92 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: and so they kind of pulled a little bit of 93 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: a trick on the Romans by lining their paths with 94 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: these very enticing pieces of this mad honeycomb. And a 95 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: similar scenario took place as to the Greek situation, they 96 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: started vomiting and became intoxicated uh and just hallucinating wildly, 97 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: and they became easy prey z for the pickens. Yes, 98 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: they also were experiencing the dizziness, hypotension, the heart problems, 99 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: the weird simulation, the feeling of you know, incoming death. 100 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: It's very painful, strange feeling. And this isn't the only 101 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: time that somebody weaponized mad honey uh. It's also been 102 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: used in mead as a way of stalling approaching forces. 103 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,679 Speaker 1: We have an excellent article called Ancient Armies Waged War 104 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: with Hallucinogenic honey by our recurring contributor laur L. Dove, 105 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: And in this you can find more information about these 106 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: various instances. And it turned out this stuff worked really well. 107 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: If you used this honey uh, this Deli ball to 108 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: make mead or a k honey wine, then you can 109 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: still have similar effects in a D nine four six 110 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: this happened. It had a little extra kick to it. 111 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: I guess right, yeah, yeah, not like a Heinz fifty 112 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: seven versus catchup kick, a more dangerous one. I'm more 113 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: of a Worcestershire sauceman myself, and the story of Worcestershire, 114 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: by the way itself, is just really weird. Can we 115 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: do that one? Yeah, let's do that one in Do 116 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: you want to do it in a later episode? I 117 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: think we do in a later episode in the New Year. Okay, 118 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: sounds good. So there was someone named Olga of Kiev, 119 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: and Olga of Kiev had Russian foes, and Olga went 120 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: through some proxies and had some allies offered these Russians 121 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: several tons of mead, and five thousand Russians ingested this 122 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: mead and they collapsed, reeling and delirious, and they were 123 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: summarily massacred. Then in fourteen eighty nine, in the same area, 124 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: a Russian army absolutely slaughtered ten thousand Totters to a 125 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: drunk too many casks of this kind of me that 126 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: the Russians had left behind once again, and that kind 127 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: of sneaky honey trap. And they've called that kind of 128 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: a honey trap. That's a term, but that's actually what 129 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: it was. And by the way, Totters just kind of 130 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: into this um are a Turkish people from living in 131 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: around and around Eurasia. And Eastern Europe and northern Asia, 132 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: and so folks, we can begin to see the shape 133 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: of the moral for today's episode. If this moral would 134 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: exist as a honeycomb shaped it is a honeycomb hive 135 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: shaped moral, and it is the following if someone you 136 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: don't trust offers you something to eat or drink, or 137 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: if you are walking on the way to a clear battle, 138 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: I just don't eat stuff you see on the side 139 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: of the road. It's very true. And we also have 140 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,959 Speaker 1: good news for anybody who loves rhododendrons and says, wait, 141 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: am I in dangering my friends, family and my foes 142 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: by having these plants? The answer is no, only one 143 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: or two, maybe three of rhododendron and carry this stuff, 144 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: So generally you should be safe and it's not all bad. 145 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: In Turkish culture, deli ball as seen as a kind 146 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: of medicine and it's used in very small amounts to 147 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: treat various medical conditions. Yeah, it's true. The couple that 148 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: we talked about at the top of the show, we're 149 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: trying to use this stuff for a a medicinal reason. 150 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: They weren't just trying to get messed up. We mentioned 151 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: the idea of it being used to treat erectile dysfunction. 152 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: But Ben, have you heard of the Guron people of 153 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: Nepal briefly, but I'd love to hear more. Yeah, So 154 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: they to this day carry on the tradition of they 155 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: call it hunting for this honey. We'll talk about what 156 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: that process is like in a minute. It's pretty insane, um. 157 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: But they use it to treat like joint pains, things 158 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: like arthritis, or mild stomach aches or I believe I 159 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: read somewhere even um, you know, hypertension, which is interesting 160 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: considering that in the medical study that we talked about, 161 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: part of the side effects of taking too much of 162 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: the stuff is that it can increase um your heart 163 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: rate significantly and cause your blood pressure to drop dangerously, 164 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: like the old saw about alcohol. Mad honey, maybe to 165 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: cure some of the problems it causes. Indeed, But these 166 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: Guran people are a fascinating bunch. Um. They live in 167 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: villages and they are entirely self sufficient. They share wool 168 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: from from goats that they have, They grind their own flower, 169 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: they make their own clothes, and what they have left 170 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: over they sell at local markets. Um. But every year 171 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: they carry on this tradition of going on an expedition 172 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: out to these incredible cliffs where they get this honey 173 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: because the areas where these particular bees which are actually 174 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if we mentioned the largest bees in 175 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, the Himalayan rock b is gigantic honey bee, 176 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: and they make their nests in their hives on these steep, 177 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: steep cliffs. So in order to access this, these folks 178 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: make these rope ladders out of kind of twisted bamboo 179 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 1: and then they it looks like a giant rope, and 180 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: then they insert these pieces of wood in between to 181 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: create rungs, and then they like well, you know, rope 182 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 1: it down to like a root or some kind of tree, 183 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: and then they repel down the side of these cliffs. 184 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: And he used these giant sticks to kind of poke 185 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: at the combs and knock them into a basket that's 186 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: also being lowered down independently, and in order to kind 187 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: of protect themselves. You might see this been with traditional beekeeping, 188 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: or to get the bees to kind of leave so 189 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: you can get this the goods, they smoke them out 190 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: of their holes basically with burning leaves, um and stuff. 191 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: But still even still these folks get stung constantly, and 192 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: it's a real almost right of passage to do this, 193 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: and there have been cases where people have fallen to 194 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: their death. There's a great quote in this article from 195 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: Vice Hunting for Hallucinogenic Honey in Nepal by David Capara, 196 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: who actually went on this expedition, and he's speaking firsthand, 197 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: and he spoke to one of the men that he 198 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: went on the expedition with, and this is what this man, 199 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: Tulsi Gurung said, And all of these folks have the 200 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: surname of Gurum, everyone that lives in the village. I 201 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: think it's interesting um quote. At first, I'm very scared 202 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: going down the ladder, but when I see the hives, 203 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: I get filled with power and become fearless. And this 204 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: right of passage, this arduous collection process results in what 205 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: the locals call pagal maha or mad honey. You can 206 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: find accounts of people who have tried this, both medicinally 207 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: and recreationally, like backpackers in Nepal. For example. We did 208 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 1: say it was it is available, you can buy it, 209 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: likely from the comfort of your own computer, but we 210 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: were a little bit misleading because although you can obtain 211 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: it easily. You cannot really obtain it cheaply. In some places, 212 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: this stuff allegedly sells for a hundred and sixty six 213 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: dollars a pound exactly. Then, and I actually found um 214 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: an article talking about kind of procuring some of this 215 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: Turkish variety of deli ball at a shop. And this 216 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: piece was written by Emma Bryce for Modern Farmer, called 217 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: the Strange History of Mad Honey. And Bryce actually makes 218 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: her way to a shop that specializes in honey, and 219 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: the shopkeeper had a jar um, and she describes it 220 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: as kind of a frothy honey that's very bright orange, 221 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: almost looks like clarified butter um. But the shopkeeper called 222 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: it rows of the forest honey or armand Kamar Bali 223 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: and Emma got a sense that they weren't really trying 224 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: to promote this stuff because they didn't want tourists completely 225 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: losing their minds by eating too much um. In every 226 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: account that I've read, someone tasting this or trying it, 227 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: it's usually been a couple of tea spoons, and it's 228 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: described as having almost a cooling effect on the throat 229 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: um a little bit of a burn. But then the 230 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: kind of is replaced by kind of almost ah, I 231 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: see hot kind of effect, that kind of then you know, 232 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: goes down your spine and almost comparable to a cannabis high. 233 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: I guess M yeah. I think again, it really depends 234 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: on the amount of the dose, because you could read 235 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: accounts from people who clearly took way too much of 236 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: this stuff and talk about laying awake at night and 237 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: pain terrified by the sound of their own heartbeat. A 238 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: lot of hallucin genic experts will tell you that if 239 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: you're going for something recreational, not that we would ever 240 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: legally recommend considering that on our show, but if you 241 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: are attempting to use some hallucinogens for recreational purposes, biologists 242 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: Sean McCanns says, the compounds involved in mad honey are 243 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: not super fun and not something I would recommend. They're 244 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: far better and safer hallucinogenic compounds that you can use. 245 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: Speaking of legally acquiring this stuff, I just wanted to 246 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: point out this may have maybe stating the obvious, but 247 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: it is legal in Turkey, so you can buy it, 248 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: you know, completely free and clear. But again there is 249 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: a sense, probably like the way Amsterdam has done business 250 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: for a long time, where even though you know um 251 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: cannabis and you know edible versions of that are legal there, 252 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: they kind of tuck it away a little bit. They 253 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to promote it right up front. And 254 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: there is that sense that dummy American tourists are going 255 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: to swoop in and like take away too much and 256 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: be a liability. And there are some other fascinating things here. Uh. First, 257 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: Adrian Mayer says that mad honey could still be used 258 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: as a ruse and war today for us the same 259 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: reason that we pointed out, people could do a much 260 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: better job in general of accepting things from strangers. You 261 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: got to have some critical thinking. We also, you know, 262 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: I had I had heard about biological or chemical warfare 263 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: throughout history before, but it wasn't familiar with food. And 264 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: I wanted to see if there were any other examples, 265 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: and I found some stuff that's at best vaguely related. 266 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: There was a war between Brazil and Uruguay in the 267 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: eighteen sixties and during one maritime battle, Uruguayans ship ran 268 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: out of cannonballs and the captain ordered his men to 269 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: fire stale balls of cheese instead. That's a that's thinking 270 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: on your feet, right there though, and how stale was 271 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: this cheese man because one of the cheese is shattered 272 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: the main mass of the enemy ship and people died 273 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: by cheese shrapnel, which I know every human death is tragic, 274 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: but that's kind of that's kind of amusing, that's it's 275 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of ridiculous. Um. You know, I could picture, uh, cheese. 276 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: Have you ever had a real hard cheese, ben, I 277 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 1: could picture if it was cut thin enough and that 278 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: flew at a fast enough you know of speed, and 279 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: the trajectory was just right, I could picture getting garrotted 280 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: by one of those things, right, Because it seems I 281 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,199 Speaker 1: think that's a very interesting point, Noel, Because you know, 282 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: we've been around a cheese wheel or two. We we've 283 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: seen some dangerous cheese. I've never thought it we could 284 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: be lethal dangerous cheese. And one time, apparently in the 285 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: Pacific Ocean during World War Two, a Japanese submarine was 286 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: sunk using potatoes. I'm just gonna let that one hang 287 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: in the air. Were these like regular potatoes or these 288 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: like you know, super mutant potatoes. Were They're just a 289 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: whole bunch of potatoes tied together to make a giant 290 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: battering right. I don't know, I just just my imagination 291 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: is going wild. These are all great ideas, These are 292 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 1: all great ideas. Uh. The US S. O Bannon came 293 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: across a surfaced Japanese submarine and they had surfaced because 294 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: they had a malfunctioning periscope, and they blasted enough holes 295 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: in the submarine to prevent it from safely submerging again, 296 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: but not not enough damage to sink it. And so 297 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 1: they pulled directly along the sub and the submariners you know, 298 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: are of course pe oed and angry. Uh. And before 299 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: they could start firing, the crew of the USS O'Bannon 300 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: began throwing potatoes at them because for some reason, there 301 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: were no guns on the USS O'Bannon, and the Japanese 302 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: forces thought the potatoes were grenades. You know, with a 303 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: name like O'Bannon, you think they would be more concerned 304 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: with conserving their potatoes. Oh you know, no, I think 305 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: we have to wonder what the what the namesake of 306 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 1: the U S S o Bannon would have thought about it. 307 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: But surprisingly enough to to us, it turns out that 308 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: it is not well, it's uncommon, but it's not unreasonable 309 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: for food to be used as a weapon of war. Typically, 310 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: when I thought of this sort of stuff, I thought 311 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: food as a weapon of war would have been a 312 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: matter of resource restriction, right, like you starve a city, 313 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: you're seeching. I didn't know that you could shoot cheese 314 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: at people, and you know that's on me. I gotta 315 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: I gotta think outside the box. Yeah, I think some 316 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: time outside the box would do us both a world 317 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: of good. Um, And thankfully we have all these fun 318 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: topics to help us do that. Agreed. And I would 319 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: have asked, you know, does this does this curious case 320 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: of mad honey which persists today? Uh? Does this inspiring 321 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: any questions for you? Would you ever try it if 322 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: you found yourself near the Black Sea or Nepal? Yeah? 323 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: I think so. I mean again, it's not illegal, um 324 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: if if I know enough about it that I certainly wouldn't. 325 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: You know, spread it on toast and just go to town. 326 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: But I try a little taste because it sounds like 327 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: in small doses it almost has just a slight euphoric 328 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: like maybe almost like having a beer or something kind 329 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: of vibe. But when you start kind of piling it on, 330 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 1: it turns much darker. Yeah, you know, I think that's 331 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: a that's a reasonable way to look at it. Let's 332 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: see if we get a yea or name from super 333 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: producer Casey pegram Casey. What do you think? All right, 334 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 1: we have a Casey's all four, Noel's all four. I 335 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: think it's reasonable. I am impulsive. I probably would try it. 336 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: But what about you, friends and neighbors. Would you take 337 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: a dose of the infamous mad honey, the substance that 338 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: toppled armies. Would you be up to the task? Why 339 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: or why not? Or have you already tried it? Yeah? 340 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: Right into us, Any and trepid travelers out there that 341 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: have scaled the rocky cliffs of Nepal in search of 342 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: this um intoxicating nectar. We are ridiculous at how stuff 343 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 1: works dot com. You can also find and us on 344 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: social media in various forms, including Facebook and Instagram. Well 345 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: not not. Those are the only ones. Yep, those are 346 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: the main ones. We do not have a LinkedIn uh, 347 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: nor do we have a Farmer's only. We don't use 348 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: the P word anymore either. No, that's true. It is 349 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: in a It's a large sign directly by this humongous 350 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: timer we still have in the office from a previous episode. Unfortunately, today, 351 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: time is not on our side, but we hope that 352 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: you will join us next time for another episode of 353 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: ridiculous history.