1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Wilson. And so every spring, I guess for 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: two springs. Now, since we've just crossed the one year 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: mark of the two of us being on this podcast, 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: requests roll in for us to talk about the Shroud 7 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: of Turin at Easter time. So last year, because we 8 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,319 Speaker 1: had basically just come onto the podcast as hosts, it 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: was way too soon. It was like three days before 10 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: Easter or something that we couldn't know what did it 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: in right, it would not have worked. So this year, 12 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: because so many people have asked, I started on research 13 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: way way way in advance, and it's still failed. Um, Basically, 14 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: there is so much research and study about the Shroud 15 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: of Turin, but equality of that research is vastly inconsistent. 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: And as I started going through it, I realized that 17 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: confirming and fact checking everything was going to be this 18 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: herculean effort, and it was going to be the kind 19 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: of effort that would need to yield a book, not 20 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: a thirty minute episode of a podcast. So I am 21 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: sad to say we do not have a Shroud of 22 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: Touring episode this year, but I really didn't want to 23 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: skip Easter entirely because I know how important it is 24 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: to a lot of people who listen to this podcast, 25 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: and because we've gotten so many requests related to it 26 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: that we have not been able to do anything about before, 27 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: And that is what led me to dive into researching 28 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: the historical context of crucifixion. So we're going to talk 29 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: about the Crucifixion of Jesus in this episode, but the 30 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: biggest focus is really crucifixion as a practice, and crucifixion 31 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: was really simultaneously very common and very taboo all over 32 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: the Greco Roman world for almost a thousand years, which 33 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: is a unique combo. Yeah, you don't usually get a 34 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: thing that is taboo and just right. So yes, we're 35 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: going we're going to talk about crucifixion as a practice 36 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: today and the history of this thing that is now 37 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: such a huge part of the consciousness of a lot 38 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: of people. So the historical documents mentioning crucifixion referred to 39 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: it as an act carried out by so called quote 40 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: barbarian people's living in southern and western Asia, and the 41 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: people's described this way included Indians, Assyrians, Scythians, who were 42 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: nomadic people from iran Uh. The Greek historian Herodotus also 43 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: makes many references to crucifixion among the Persians. So the 44 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: Greek and Roman writers alike, who were writing disparagingly about 45 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: these so called barbarian uses of crucifixion, we're also kind 46 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: of defending it among Greeks and Romans themselves. So, based 47 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,399 Speaker 1: on kind of reconstructing all of the different references and timelines, 48 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: it seems as though the practice eventually spread from Asia 49 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: to Carthage and then to Rome, and then from the 50 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: Romans to German, Germanic and Britannic people's who used it 51 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: as a method of religious sacrifice. But it was really 52 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: in Greece in Rome that crucifixion became a commonplace method 53 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: of execution. And this was true from about the sixth 54 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 1: century b c. Until the fourth century c e U, 55 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: such a very long span of time, and bodies of 56 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: people who were already dead were also displayed in crucifixion 57 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: like poses as a sort of posthumous humiliation, and whether 58 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: someone was dying on across or was being placed there 59 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: after death, crucifixion was regarded as just extremely shameful and horrible. Uh. 60 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: People kind of write to us sometimes about applying modern 61 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: sensibilities to things that were commonplace at the past in 62 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: the past, but no, really. In Greece and Rome, the 63 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly prevailing sentiment was that crucifixion was a really, really 64 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: shameful and horrifying thing. Yet crucifixions were carried out anyway, 65 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: and Greek and Roman writers and historians simultaneously wrote about 66 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: how it was extremely horrific and also defended its use. 67 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: So what they were not really writing about was exactly 68 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: how crucifixion was performed. Uh, it was so horrifying and 69 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: shameful that people living at the time seem like they 70 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: didn't really want to go into detail about what actually 71 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: happened in the process. Even the four Gospel accounts of 72 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: the crucifixion of Jesus just say that they crucified him. 73 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: They don't really describe the act of crucifixion. So there's 74 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: some debate today about whether all the historical executions that 75 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: are described as crucifixions were actually carried out in the 76 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: way that we envision crucifixion in modern times. It's simultaneously 77 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: a question of whether the modern unders ending of the 78 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: crucifixion of Jesus applies to all the other crucifixions, or 79 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: if there were various methodologies to it right, So the 80 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: dictionary definition and the mental image that comes to mind 81 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: for most people, and the Christian tradition involves being nailed 82 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: to a cross which has both an upright part and 83 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: a crossbar. The person being crucified is also stripped, beaten, 84 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: and mocked, and the cross itself is marked with a 85 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: sign that details that person's name and the crime that 86 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: they are being crucified for committing. And a lot of 87 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: that common knowledge about the death of Jesus and consequently 88 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: crucifixion in general comes from early Christian art and writings 89 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: that were created about two hundred years after the events, 90 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: so they weren't really contemporary accounts, right. Even the Gospels 91 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: are were written down significantly later Priss actually lived. One 92 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: of the earliest known visual depictions is the Alexamenos Graffito, 93 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: which is a derogatory and mocking etching on a wall 94 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: in Rome that dates to roughly two hundred years after 95 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: the crucifixion of Jesus. Another etching dates from about the 96 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: same time period and has some visual similarities. These visually 97 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: look like what we think of today as crucifixion, with 98 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: the it's a cross shaped cross basically with a person 99 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: nailed to it. But because all of these accounts, whether 100 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: they are written or visual, were created so long after 101 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: the crucifixion of Jesus took place, it's a little unclear 102 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: how well they match up with what actually happened, And 103 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 1: it's also unclear whether those accounts of the crucifixion of 104 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: Jesus can be just applied wholesale to all the other 105 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: crucifixions in history. There are some common themes that can 106 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 1: be gleaned from existing texts about crucifixion, though so. The 107 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: first is that before being crucified, the person who was 108 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: being executed was generally stripped and then beaten, flagged, or 109 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: otherwise tortured. The execution itself involved being tied or nailed 110 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: to some kind of vertical steak, and it may or 111 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: may not have had a horizontal crossbar. The person being 112 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: executed also generally had to carry one of the implements 113 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: of their death to the side of the execution, although 114 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: whether this was the vertical stake or the crossbar, or 115 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: something else hasn't really been specified in the text that 116 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: survived today that the sort of thing that people imagine 117 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: is that at the crossbar right, So, uh, we know 118 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: that crucifixions usually happened in public in heavily trafficked places. 119 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: They were as much about publicly displaying the person being 120 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: executed as about executing and punishing them, and there was 121 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: also usually a sign on the cross or nearby detailing 122 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: who was being crucified and why. And it is not 123 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: a big leap of logic to um guests. The crucifixion 124 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: led to a very slow and very agonizing death. Depending 125 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: on the person's health and physical state at the time 126 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: of being crucified, it to take days, and we don't 127 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: really have autopsy records to go on. There have been 128 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: some various theories over the years, but at this point 129 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: the general consensus is that the person's death ultimately came 130 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: from coronary failure alung collapse, and this is in part 131 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: because being suspended in the way that people were suspended 132 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: during crucifixion makes it really hard for the rib cage 133 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: to expand enough to take a good deep breath, and 134 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: if the executioners wanted to speed things along, they would 135 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: break the person's legs, and this would induce shock, and 136 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: it would speed up the rate of respiratory decline. The 137 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: person being crucified could no longer support themselves with their 138 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: legs long enough to assist in taking a good breath. 139 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: After death, a crucified person was normally also denied burial 140 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: and was instead fed to birds and wild animals, or 141 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: just left hanging there to rot and be fed upon 142 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 1: by scavengers. Humans are really good at devising really horrible 143 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: things to do to each other. No, it's just that's 144 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: what I constantly think of when looking through these notes, 145 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: like terrible creatures. Uh. There was widespread acknowledgement, as we said, 146 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: that crucifixion was a cruel, horrifying, and humiliating practice, but 147 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: it continued to be practiced anyway, sometimes because of its cruelty, 148 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: and sometimes out of the idea that such a horrifying 149 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: and shameful death would discourage others from committing the same offenses. Persia, Greece, Carthage, 150 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: and Rome all crucified people for similar reasons, which included 151 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: treason and other crimes against the state, pacifying and demoralizing 152 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: conquered nations, or rebels within a nation's and borders, or 153 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: punishing and persecuting political and religious dissenters. Carthage also crucified 154 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: high ranking military leaders who failed in battle, and Greece 155 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: and Rome also crucified robbers and pirates, and pirates sometimes 156 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: crucified their victims. In Rome, crucifixion was thought of as 157 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: the supreme punishment. The next two layers of punishment in 158 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: terms of severity were burning and decapitation. Rome also sometimes 159 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: used crucifixion as a form of popular entertainment, kind of 160 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: similar to throwing someone to the lions, and sometimes Rome 161 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: performed crucifixions as part of this big, violent and spectacle 162 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: that would include crucifixions, throwing people to wild animals, and 163 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: fights between glad years. And Crucifixion was such an abhorrent 164 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: punishment that in Rome it wasn't usually performed on citizens, 165 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: at least unless they committed a crime so heinous that 166 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:44,479 Speaker 1: a crucifixion was deemed warranted. Instead, Romans usually crucified slaves, 167 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: so many slaves that it was referred to as a 168 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: slave's punishment, and Romans also were open to crucifying foreigners, 169 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: people who didn't have the civil rights that were kind 170 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: of conferred by being Roman citizens were for the most 171 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: part the people at Rome crucified. There were many others, 172 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: And before we talk about that, would you like to 173 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: take a moment and have a word from our sponsor. 174 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: So let's return to the subject of crucifixion and talk 175 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: about some of the people who were crucified during this 176 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: almost thousand year timespan. The most well known crucifixion today, 177 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,479 Speaker 1: of course, is that of Jesus of Nazareth, whose crucifixion 178 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: was ordered by Ponscious Pilot. Two criminals were crucified along 179 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: with him, and today Jesus's death on the cross is 180 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: a crucial part of the Christian faith because of the 181 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: idea that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind. 182 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: But in the first years after the crucifixion it was 183 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: actually an added source of persecution for early Christians. We've 184 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: said so many times in this episode that crucifixion was 185 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: loaded with shame and horror, and in the minds of 186 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: many who were not of the Christian faith, the idea 187 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: that a divine being could have been put to such 188 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: a death was just absurd, so it completely discredited their faith. Today, 189 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 1: it's sort of part of it's one of the important 190 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: parts of of faith and of Christianity. Uh. But as 191 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: Christianity as a religion was sort of getting started early, 192 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: a lot of early Christians were heavily persecuted by people 193 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: around them, and this became sort of a source of 194 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: ridicule and mocking and attempts to discredit Christianity as a faith. Um. 195 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: There were many, many, many other people who were crucified 196 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: as well, though, and this is sort of a list 197 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: of highlights. We're going to start. Within the sixth century 198 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: BC and bat and Babylon, Darius the First, who was 199 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: the King of Prussia, ordered the crucifixion of about three 200 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: thousand political opponents. In the second century BC, slaves were 201 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 1: crucified on mass in response to a slave rebellion at 202 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: the end of the Second Punic War. And two A 203 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: one b C. E. Sipio Africanus the Elder punished Roman 204 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: deserters by crucifying them. And as we said before, Rome 205 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: didn't normally crucify its own set sins, but their treason 206 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: was deemed to be a big enough in fraction to 207 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: basically revoke that protection of citizenship. In a eight B 208 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: c e. Alexander Jennius, who was a high priest and 209 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: king of Judea, crucified eight hundred Pharisees, who were also 210 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: his political opponents. The Roman general Publicius Quinctilius Verus crucified 211 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: about two thousand Jews in the first century CE due 212 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: to a rebellion, Nero ordered many crucifixions, including many early Christians, 213 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: as part of a campaign of religious persecution. Also during 214 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: Nero's reign, the Senate revived an older custom of executing 215 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: all of a household slaves, usually by crucifixion, if the 216 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: head of that household was murdered. Flaccus, the governor of Egypt, 217 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: employed crucifixion in the persecution of Jews. So this went on, 218 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: like we've said, for a very very long time, and 219 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people were put to by crucifixion. The 220 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: general consensus is that Emperor Constantine was the one who 221 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: put an end to crucifixion, although there is some debate 222 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: about that today, it's pretty clear that he really wanted 223 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: to put a stop to crucifixion, and it does look 224 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: like officially sanctioned crucifixions did end after he made this directive, 225 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: But it also seems like the practice itself continued without 226 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: it being something that was allowed at that point. There 227 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: you could say we're not doing that anymore, but it 228 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: takes a while for it to really be eradicated. Yeah. Well, 229 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: and then also the practice was was introduced into other 230 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: cultures later in history and was practiced sort of after 231 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: having learned it from from history or from Roman example. Um. 232 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: But I didn't really get into that in this particular 233 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: episode because I really I wanted to focus on it. 234 00:14:55,160 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: It's heyday. Seems like a flippant word, but that whole 235 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: era in Rome and Greece when it was just like 236 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: the way that people were executed for a whole lot 237 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: of different things. Um. It's interesting to read the points 238 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: of view of the people who were writing about it 239 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: at the time, who would very spontaneously being decrying it 240 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: as a terrible thing to do, and then just sort 241 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: of resignedly accepting that it was something that needed to 242 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: be done in order to basically keep people in their place. 243 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: It was a sort of idea of, well, if we 244 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: stopped crucifying people, there will be lots of crime and dissent, 245 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: and that doesn't sound good. The man who wrote several 246 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: of the things that I read researching this episode, whose 247 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: name was Gunner R. Samuelson wrote a whole book that 248 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: was sort of about, uh, crucifixion and the historical context 249 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: of Crucifixion, which when the book came out, a lot 250 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: of news newspapers completely mischaracterized and like very sensational headlines. 251 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: So if if you ever read them, I got maybe 252 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: very angry at this person we're having made uh, seemingly 253 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: blasphemous statements. That's not really what the book is about. 254 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: The book is a lot more about what happened and 255 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: how do we know what happened and what was the 256 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: historical context for this? Even having learned so so much 257 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: about the role that the Crucifixion plays in a lot 258 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: of modern Christianity, I had no idea of sort of 259 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: its placed in its society, Yeah, or how much of um, 260 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: like the the image that comes to mind when we 261 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: say crucifixion, how much of that comes from later later 262 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: writings and artwork, And it's a little unclear how well 263 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: those reflect what happened at the time, which doesn't lessen 264 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: anything at all, but uh, there are some things that 265 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: we sort of take for granted now that may or 266 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: may not have happened the way that we imagine them. 267 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: All right, all right, do you have slightly peppier listener? Man? 268 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: And it kind of is peppier in a way. It's 269 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: also h related to distressing subject matter, but is kind 270 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: of uplifting in what it's about. This is from Terry 271 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: and it is on our episode are two part episode 272 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: on Rosa Parks. Terry says, Hi, Holly and Tracy have 273 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: been catching up on podcasts and just listen to the 274 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: Rosa Parks double. I'm so glad to hear someone talk 275 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: about the backstory that led Rosa to the place where 276 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: she ended up and her previous involvement in the movement. 277 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: So often that's all glossed over, and all we hear 278 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 1: is she didn't stand up without any mention of how 279 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: the buses really worked, or that she was involved in 280 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: the n Double a CP and had been some non 281 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: violence training. However, I was sad that he missed a 282 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: real opportunity to name another woman who was forgotten in 283 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: the midst of the story. You talked extensively about the 284 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: leaflets advertising the bus boycott, but nary a mention of 285 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: the woman who made them. Happen literally overnight. Joe and 286 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: Robinson snuck into the school office and mimiographed thirty five 287 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: thousand leaflets at three am, and then later, when she 288 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: talked about it with the administrator, he chose not to 289 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: discipline her, though he could not find his way to 290 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: taking a public stand. These two people, in many ways 291 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: made the boycott possible and his success, and they are 292 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: left out of the story. Perhaps an episode on Joanne 293 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: is in order. Maybe someday. Thank you so much for 294 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: all you do to inform and entertain us. I love 295 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: listening and learning with you. Peace Terry memiographing, I know 296 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: I suddenly have like sense memory. I know instantly. I 297 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: would imagine that we have listeners who are young enough 298 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: that they had all their things in school. Xerox if 299 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: you if you don't really know, uh, memiographs printed this 300 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: like purplely onto paper. It had a very particular smell 301 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: that Holly and I are both remembering right now. It's 302 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: also extremely fiddly and cantankerous technology that could go terribly awry. 303 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: So the idea of memiographing thirty thousand leaflets at three 304 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, I wonder how long it took. 305 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: I don't know, it would depend on whether like the 306 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 1: machine got jam or whether you know that the fluid 307 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: had been pumped correctly. Like, yeah, that is a task. 308 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: I mean I remember teachers complaining about you know, just 309 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: memo graphing o our thirty quizzes for the day. Yeah, 310 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: me too, distinctly, or like when they would hand out packets. 311 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: There were a couple of times that I remember in 312 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: school where we had to share packets because the teacher 313 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: just got fed up and was done with fighting with 314 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: the mimograph machine. Ah it conjures, like I said, instant 315 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: since memories like that smell and yeah, if we um, 316 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: I will see if I can find for for those 317 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: those listeners who may have never had mimio graph things 318 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: in school. Uh. I will see if I can find 319 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: some some cool things about mimi graph machines and maybe 320 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: put them in our share notes or on our Facebook 321 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: or something. So uh yes, thank you so much, Terry. 322 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us about this 323 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: or any other subject, you can. We're at History Podcast 324 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com. We're also on Facebook at Facebook 325 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: dot com slash miss in History and on Twitter a 326 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: miss in History Our tumbler is missing history dot tumbler 327 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: dot com, and our pinterest is putris dot com slash 328 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: miss in history. 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