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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, what exactly is your job title these days? Well?

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Speaker 1: I call myself a particle physicist, all right, so then

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Speaker 1: this question should be pretty easy for you. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell me what exactly a particle is? Oh? Boy, I

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Speaker 1: wish I could. What I mean you wish? Aren't you

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Speaker 1: a particle physicist? How can you not know what it is? Well?

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Speaker 1: I guess it's kind of just a made up job title,

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Speaker 1: I suppose. I mean, you must be smashing something there

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Speaker 1: in your large accelerator. Yeah, maybe that's what we should

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Speaker 1: have called it, the large something collider, the large something

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Speaker 1: something collider. I mean, I voted for something collider face,

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Speaker 1: but nobody else wanted that. It's not too late. I

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Speaker 1: am more handmade cartoonist and the creator of PhD comics.

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a professor of physics at you see ermine,

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Speaker 1: and I'm also a particle physicist whatever that means. Maybe

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Speaker 1: that should be the title should be whatever physicist technically

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Speaker 1: that encompasses the whole universe. Or I could just be

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Speaker 1: a professor of whatever. What are you teaching this year? Whatever?

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Speaker 1: In your house, you're probably a professor of that. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you hear from your kids a lot whatever. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do have two teenagers, so I do get that

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Speaker 1: a lot. You get a lot of something at home.

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Speaker 1: Not a whole lot of interests in physics, but a

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Speaker 1: whole lot interest in whatever, dad, or a lot of

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Speaker 1: non interests. I guess in whatever. Sometimes I can trick

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Speaker 1: them into being interested in physics. Oh yeah, how does

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Speaker 1: that work? You pay them now? They asked me a

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Speaker 1: question about something else they're honestly curious about, and then

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Speaker 1: I turned it into a question about physics. I guess

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Speaker 1: everything at the end is physics sort of, and so

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Speaker 1: basically anything that anything they ask you as a physics question.

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Speaker 1: When can I go to sleep? Well, it depends on

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Speaker 1: the physics of the chemistry and your brain. Let's explore that.

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Speaker 1: Sit down, I'll give you a lecture, and that's a

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Speaker 1: good way to put them to sleep. It all works out.

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Speaker 1: But anyways, welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain

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Speaker 1: the Universe, a production of I Heart Radio in which

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Speaker 1: we turn the whole universe into a physics question and

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Speaker 1: ask what is it, how does it work? And can

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Speaker 1: we figure it out without putting you to sleep. We

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Speaker 1: take your mind on a journey into the craziest things

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Speaker 1: that the universe contains, the craziest things that the universe does,

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Speaker 1: and the craziest, strangest things that the universe might also

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Speaker 1: be made out of. That's right. We take you in

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Speaker 1: a journey to the big whatever because the universe is

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Speaker 1: full of what you know, it's full of stuff, and

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Speaker 1: there's also an ever there because the universe is several

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Speaker 1: billion years old and maybe around for trillions of more years.

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Speaker 1: That's right. There's not many things that we can say

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Speaker 1: with certainty in physics and philosophy, but we can say

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Speaker 1: that there is something out there and we're something, right, also,

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Speaker 1: are don't we something? I'm something? You're something. The listener

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Speaker 1: is something and you're definitely listening to something right now. Well,

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Speaker 1: you're more, you're more of a something else, Dan. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna take that in the entirely positive way that it

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Speaker 1: was meant. Definitely not nothing. Something. It stands out you mean,

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Speaker 1: like a ZiT sort of rises above the skin. That's

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Speaker 1: that's something else, Daniel. But I'm happy to be the

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Speaker 1: black head in this universe. But it is a pretty

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Speaker 1: wonderful universal of amazing things to discover, and every day

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Speaker 1: we're learning more and more about it. We're looking out

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Speaker 1: there into the stars and looking with our microscopes at

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Speaker 1: the smallest things in existence, and we're giving names. We're

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Speaker 1: not just taking names, we're giving out names to these things.

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Speaker 1: And we're doing more than just trying to see what's

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Speaker 1: out there in the universe. We're trying to make sense

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Speaker 1: of it. We're trying to describe the crazy bonkers universe

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Speaker 1: that we see out there in terms of ideas that

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Speaker 1: makes sense in our It's we have a small mental

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Speaker 1: toolbox of concepts that we are familiar with, and we

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Speaker 1: need to describe the whole crazy universe out there in

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Speaker 1: terms of these simple ideas. Yeah, does that mean we

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Speaker 1: have like little tiny hammers inside of our brains and

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Speaker 1: little tiny screwdrivers sort of? I think that as kids

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Speaker 1: grow up, they experienced the universe and they encounter new

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Speaker 1: ideas and they sort of become familiar with them, and

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Speaker 1: then that things in your brain is like the set

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Speaker 1: of ideas that you are comfortable with. You know, a thing,

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Speaker 1: what can the thing do, what can the thing be?

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Speaker 1: What are the rules of a thing? And then lady,

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Speaker 1: you try to describe other stuff in terms of that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. Yeah, it's almost like we sort of

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Speaker 1: experienced two different universes in a way, right, Like, as

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Speaker 1: you grow up, the universe seems to be one way.

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Speaker 1: It seems to follow sort of like Newtonian physics. Things

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Speaker 1: bouncing around, things are hard, things are soft, things fly

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Speaker 1: through the air. But then as you learn more and

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Speaker 1: more about the universe, as humanity has learned more and

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Speaker 1: more about the universe, things got more complex. They certainly did.

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Speaker 1: There are so many things out there in the universe

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Speaker 1: that we do not experience in childhood that we do

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Speaker 1: not have intuitive concepts for, because they're not the kind

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Speaker 1: of thing that our brains involved to understand, and not

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Speaker 1: the kind of things that we learned to deal with

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Speaker 1: when we were children. And yet they are out there

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Speaker 1: and they are part of the real world, and so

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Speaker 1: we need to somehow extrapolate from the kinds of concepts

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Speaker 1: that we do understand out there into the fuzzy weirdness

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Speaker 1: that the universe is. And it makes me wonder how

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Speaker 1: other intelligent species think about the universe, if they have

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Speaker 1: different ways of interacting with the universe, or if they're

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Speaker 1: very very small or very very large or very very fast,

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Speaker 1: would they think that our understanding of the universe is

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Speaker 1: strange and alien. The way we might think there's is whoa.

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Speaker 1: You just kind of blew my mind there, right, Like

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Speaker 1: we usually assume aliens are the same size and the

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Speaker 1: same shape as we are. But maybe aliens are you know,

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Speaker 1: a tiny microscopic of almost quantum size and beings. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or maybe aliens can like taste photons and smell electrons

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Speaker 1: and have weird quantum interactions, and for them, quantum mechanics

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Speaker 1: is totally intuitive and they would find you know, classical

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Speaker 1: mechanics is like, wow, that's fantastic and beautiful. What an

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Speaker 1: interesting simplification of big quantum mechanics. It's really fun. And

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Speaker 1: of course you know, I can turn any question into

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Speaker 1: one about aliens, yes, or maybe the aliens are just

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Speaker 1: going like whatever, that's actually what my kids complain about

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Speaker 1: their Like, dad stopped turning this into something about aliens.

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Speaker 1: I didn't ask about aliens. Well, all teenagers act like

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Speaker 1: aliens sometimes, or at least they feel alienated or they

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Speaker 1: wonder if their parents are aliens. You just need a

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Speaker 1: cone head, I guess. But it does seem like we're

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Speaker 1: sort of maybe stuck it away in our childhood view

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Speaker 1: of the universe sometimes or at least it's hard to

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of think about the real universe because

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Speaker 1: it is sort of complex and not intuitive from a

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Speaker 1: child's perspective. But then our language and our way of

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Speaker 1: thinking is sort of stuck because that's how we grew up.

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Speaker 1: And it's a real question whether or not we can

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Speaker 1: comprehend a true, chaotic, buzzing reality that's out there in

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Speaker 1: terms of the kinds of ideas that we have, or

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Speaker 1: do we need to somehow invent or discover a completely

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Speaker 1: new kind of concept which previously was alien two our thinking,

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Speaker 1: you know, just following the mathematics and then developing inventing

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Speaker 1: some new kind of intuition sort of as an adult

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Speaker 1: intellectual species that we need to grapple with the craziness

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Speaker 1: of reality. I wonder if even our brains are capable,

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Speaker 1: right or equipped or designed to maybe grasp the true

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Speaker 1: nature of the universe. You know, it could be that,

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Speaker 1: you know, like sort of like dogs can't do calculus,

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Speaker 1: maybe we really understand the define mathematics at the core

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Speaker 1: of reality. And I don't like the way you're talking

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Speaker 1: about my dog there, man, I mean, don't put limits

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Speaker 1: on my dog's village. Dog can do calculus or at

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Speaker 1: least algebra. Come on, you can count treats. I'm pretty sure.

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Speaker 1: There you go. I'm sure he can calculate the radio

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Speaker 1: treats too, So that's sort of like calculus. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you're right, we don't know if the human brain is

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Speaker 1: capable of grasping the true nature of reality. Certainly dogs

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Speaker 1: are not, as much as we love them, and so

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Speaker 1: then there's no guarantee that we are infinitely intelligent and

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Speaker 1: capable of understanding. If super intelligent aliens come to Earth

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Speaker 1: and want to explain physics to us, could we even

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Speaker 1: understand it? Could we grocket even if they knew how

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Speaker 1: to speak our language and our mathematics and our physics.

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Speaker 1: Would we fail that class? Yeah? Or maybe they would

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Speaker 1: have to like trick us into understanding or liking or

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Speaker 1: asking the right questions about physics. You know, you think

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Speaker 1: we'd just be like whatever, aliens, we don't want to

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Speaker 1: hear it. Just give me a headache, man, I would

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Speaker 1: sign up for that headache. I would go to that class.

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Speaker 1: What if it was a constant headache, like seven headache? Man?

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Speaker 1: Have you tried quantum mechanics? That's basically seven headache. I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's humanity trying to absorb something which is

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Speaker 1: truly alien, which is far from our experience, something we

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Speaker 1: have never experienced on the early Savannahs. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: didn't need to know to be able to hunt mammoth,

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Speaker 1: and yet we are somehow beginning to grapple with it.

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Speaker 1: We are getting a sort of mathematical fluency with a

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Speaker 1: truly alien concept. We'll just need to require the aliens

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Speaker 1: to bring espirin at least give us a hand. But

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Speaker 1: it is interesting to try to, you know, understand these

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Speaker 1: fundamental concepts about the universe. And there is one concept

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Speaker 1: out there that may seem pretty easy to understand, but

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Speaker 1: actually there is a lot of uncertainty about it. Something

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Speaker 1: very basic about the universe, that's right, And if you

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Speaker 1: ask people whose job it is to understand this stuff,

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Speaker 1: you get lots of very different answers, to my surprise.

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Speaker 1: So to be on the podcast, we will be tackling

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Speaker 1: the question what is a particle? And just to be clear,

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Speaker 1: then in your official title is particle physicists. So you know,

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Speaker 1: first of all, it's shocking that you don't know. And

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Speaker 1: second of all, if we were going to ask somebody

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Speaker 1: we should ask you. You know we have one of

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Speaker 1: the leading experts in the field here. Yeah. Well, I

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Speaker 1: suppose you could say that a particle physicist is someone

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Speaker 1: who tries to understand what particles are, not somebody who

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Speaker 1: already knows the answers, right, because member science is a journey.

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Speaker 1: You ask somebody who's an expert in dinosaurs, they don't

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Speaker 1: know everything about dinosaurs. Maybe they know everything that humans

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Speaker 1: know about dinosaurs, but they don't already have all the

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Speaker 1: answers right. Right. When I hire a plumber, I don't

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Speaker 1: really want someone who knows plumbing. I just want someone

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Speaker 1: who comes in to learn about plumbing. Well, that's why

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Speaker 1: you don't hire a physicist to do your plumbing, because

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Speaker 1: they'll be like, Oh, I have this great R and

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Speaker 1: D project. I'm curious this new theoretical idea for plumbing

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Speaker 1: will work in your toilet. That's right. I wanna build

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Speaker 1: a water collider inside your walls and we'll see what happens. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm just putting a small black hole under your toilet

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Speaker 1: and it's just gonna suck everything away. That would be

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Speaker 1: a pretty green solution. It would conserve water for sure.

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Speaker 1: Whether dark matter can go into a black hole. Oh man,

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Speaker 1: that's next level physics, spread there, or lower level physics.

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Speaker 1: But you know, particle physicists are people who are curious

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Speaker 1: about these questions. What is the universe is made out

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Speaker 1: of at its most fundamental level, And it's something we've

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Speaker 1: made a lot of progress thinking about in the last

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Speaker 1: hundred years or so. But there's a shocking diversity of answers,

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Speaker 1: even among particles physicists. Yeah, something as simple of award

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Speaker 1: as a particle can have many different meanings, and in

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Speaker 1: physics it can mean very different things. So it's usually

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Speaker 1: we were wondering how many people out there have thought

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Speaker 1: about this very basic question what is a particle, and

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Speaker 1: whether or not they have a true answer to it.

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Speaker 1: So thank you very much for everybody who is willing

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Speaker 1: to answer random questions for the podcast. It's some great

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Speaker 1: help to us and we love hearing your voice and

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Speaker 1: having you all out there participated makes us feel a

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Speaker 1: little bit like this is a conversation, So please, if

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Speaker 1: you'd like to participate, don't be shy right to us.

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Speaker 1: Two questions at Daniel I and Jorge dot com. So

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Speaker 1: think about it for a second, what do you think

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Speaker 1: is a particle. Here's what people have to say, Well,

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Speaker 1: Daniel and Jrrey, I think I learned this one from you.

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Speaker 1: At a particle is a certain excitation of a certain field.

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Speaker 1: I'll leave it at that. To me, a particle is

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Speaker 1: the smallest, this great thing that you can poke where

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Speaker 1: we don't yet know how to smash it into smaller bits.

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Speaker 1: My understanding is that a particle is just an excitation

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Speaker 1: in a quantum field, and when it reaches a certain

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Speaker 1: energy level um our many electron golds in that field.

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Speaker 1: That causes a particle to just appear as a consequence

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Speaker 1: of the energy in the field. It's just the basic

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Speaker 1: unit for that has of matter and um and energy.

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Speaker 1: We have different definitions based on how we're talking about

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Speaker 1: what a particle is. Maybe talking about a particle from

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Speaker 1: the perspective of an engineer building a particle collider, you

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Speaker 1: might have a certain definition. If you're talking about it

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Speaker 1: in a theoretical physics sort of minded way, you might

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Speaker 1: have a slightly different definition. I think it's something that

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Speaker 1: we're still grappling with because it's not something that we

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Speaker 1: have an intuitive understanding of. So I think there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of different ideas and a lot of different ways

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Speaker 1: to try and make analogies that we can understand to

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Speaker 1: sort of encompass this concept of particle. A particle is

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Speaker 1: that portion of the standard model divided into quantized pieces

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Speaker 1: which may or may not be fundamental. They may be

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Speaker 1: thought of as the building blocks of the universe, and

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Speaker 1: they may be also thought of as perturbations, wiggles, or

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Speaker 1: vibrations of their concommittant field. I generally use the word

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Speaker 1: particle to describe small bits of stuff, and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: just mean atom. You can even say, like a cork

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Speaker 1: is a particle, and of course are made up of

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Speaker 1: other things. Those two are particles. So I guess the

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Speaker 1: word particle just means a bit of something, the smallest

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Speaker 1: bit of something you could possibly have. All Right, I

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Speaker 1: got a little existential there and a little basic. Some

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Speaker 1: people were, like, a particle, it's just a particle, right,

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Speaker 1: It's like the basically unit of stuff. Yeah, it is

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Speaker 1: a really fascinating question, and you hear in these answers

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Speaker 1: a lot of different ideas. Yeah. Yeah, some people say

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Speaker 1: it's like an excitation in a quantum field, and some

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Speaker 1: people say it's just like the smallest thing you can

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Speaker 1: poke at Nobody said it was Daniel job. Nobody said

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Speaker 1: why are you asking me? If you're asking me, we're

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Speaker 1: in trouble. It's like if your dentist asks you what

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Speaker 1: am I supposed to do next? At least nobody said

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Speaker 1: something or whatever. It's not nothing. Oh, there you go.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's not nothing. Is that one of the leading theories.

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Speaker 1: That's not an explanation though, that's just like ruling out

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Speaker 1: other explanations. Maybe that is the answer, Daniel. That's like

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Speaker 1: when you ask your teenager who didnt to the car

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Speaker 1: and they say, I don't know, but it wasn't me.

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Speaker 1: That's not an answer. Yeah, so let's dig into this.

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Speaker 1: It's it's almost almost like a philosophical question, right Daniel,

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Speaker 1: like what is a particle? Or maybe more like a

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Speaker 1: semantic question, you know, about the meaning of the word

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Speaker 1: or is this actual? Like physics questions like we don't

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Speaker 1: even have math for it. I think it's all of

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Speaker 1: the above. It's definitely an interesting lesson in history how

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Speaker 1: we came up with this concept of a particle, what

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Speaker 1: it meant to people through time. There's also a philosophical question,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you could describe the universe in terms

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Speaker 1: of particles versus fields, versus something else, which is the

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Speaker 1: true stuff of the universe. But it's also really a

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Speaker 1: physics question. You know, we are trying to understand the universe,

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Speaker 1: and it's most basic level, what is the fundamental element

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Speaker 1: of the universe. Some things are fundamental, they're inherent properties

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Speaker 1: of the universe, and other things like ice cream cones,

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Speaker 1: are emergent. They arise out of the complex interactions of

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Speaker 1: other stuff. So it's really sort of the heart of

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Speaker 1: particle physics is understanding the very nature of the universe.

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Speaker 1: So I think it really is a physical question as well.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a party, It's right there in the

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Speaker 1: name particle. Well I never made that connection. My whole

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Speaker 1: job is just a party. You're a party animal, professional

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Speaker 1: party animal, professional party. Yeah, and if you have had

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Speaker 1: a bunch of particle physicists at your party, you know

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Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah, you know it's not really a party.

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Speaker 1: But anyways, let's dig into this kind of deep question, Daniel,

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Speaker 1: I guess how would you even start to tackle this question.

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Speaker 1: I think a good way to begin is to recognize

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Speaker 1: that particles are really at the heart of what we

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Speaker 1: mean by the stuff around us. It's a huge inside

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Speaker 1: already to say that the things that are around us,

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Speaker 1: the ice cream cone, the lava, the kittens, whatever you

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Speaker 1: ate for lunch, all of this stuff is made out

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Speaker 1: of smaller pieces. Right, So the fact that you had

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Speaker 1: a cheese sandwich for lunch is not because that cheese

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Speaker 1: sandwich is made out of like cheese bits and sandwich bits.

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Speaker 1: It's all made out of the same stuff, right. There's

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Speaker 1: no cheese sandwichiness to the universe. There's no lava eatness

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Speaker 1: to the universe. That's all made out of the same

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Speaker 1: fundamental pieces. And so when you take the universe apart,

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Speaker 1: you discover this really deep and fascinating fact that most

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Speaker 1: of the qualities of the things around you are determined

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Speaker 1: by the smaller bits they're made out of. And not

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Speaker 1: like the identity of those bits, but how those bits

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Speaker 1: are arranged. Right. But that that's sort of a modern

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Speaker 1: view of the universe, right, I mean, when we started

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Speaker 1: back in ancient times, you know, we noticed, I think

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Speaker 1: we noticed that we can you can break stuff apart,

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Speaker 1: right like you can break a person apart. You can

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Speaker 1: take a rock and smash it into smaller and smaller

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Speaker 1: bits but it probably our limitation was that if you

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Speaker 1: break a rock into smaller bits, eventually just get tiny

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Speaker 1: little rocks or kind of little pieces of people. But

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Speaker 1: there's sort of no way for us to know, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this rock stuff is different than this plant stuff. Right,

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Speaker 1: Certainly in ancient times, but there was this concept that

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Speaker 1: maybe there are a few basic elements. You know, they

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Speaker 1: thought it was air, wind, fire, and water initially, but

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Speaker 1: this idea that maybe everything around us was made of

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Speaker 1: basic ingredients mixed together in different ways. That is an

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Speaker 1: ancient idea. Although you know, every time you're giving credit

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Speaker 1: to the Greeks for some ancient idea that sounds very

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Speaker 1: modern and insightful, you gotta remember they had lots of

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Speaker 1: other crazy ancient ideas that we never forget because they're

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Speaker 1: so far off that we ignore them. Right right, I'm

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Speaker 1: well aware of your anti Grecian is m. You're kind

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Speaker 1: of down on the Greeks. Do you think they were

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Speaker 1: just like shooting ideas everywhere and some of them stuck

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Speaker 1: on the wall. I mean, have you read Greek philosophy,

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Speaker 1: And basically that's exactly what they did. They sent around

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Speaker 1: in robes, eating olives and throwing ideas against the wall.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like a great way to do things. It

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Speaker 1: is a great way to do things, and it's wonderful

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Speaker 1: that people were thinking so deeply a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: The problem is they didn't really have ways to test

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Speaker 1: these ideas until very very recently. So for a long

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Speaker 1: time the idea has just sort of floated out there

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Speaker 1: in idea space. But more recently we have actually gained

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Speaker 1: insights about the universe by doing experiments. And it was

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Speaker 1: something like a hundred and fifty years ago that the

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Speaker 1: concept of a particle really came together and it emerged

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Speaker 1: out of experiments that people were doing. Interesting, So was

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Speaker 1: this before or after the idea of the atom, Like,

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Speaker 1: do we have an idea of what an atom was,

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Speaker 1: is the smallest thing you can kind of break stuff

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Speaker 1: apart into, before the idea of a particle? Or did

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Speaker 1: we think about particles before atoms? We thought about atoms first.

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Speaker 1: I mean atoms also come from the Greeks, right, Democratus

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Speaker 1: had the idea of atoms, and then later on in

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Speaker 1: chemistry we noticed that there were these integer quantities in

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Speaker 1: chemical equations. So people had this concept that maybe things

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Speaker 1: were made out of atoms. But we didn't really know

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Speaker 1: how those atoms worked, you know, what was inside the atom,

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Speaker 1: what was the structure of the atom itself, what made

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Speaker 1: this element different from that element, And that didn't come

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Speaker 1: about until the discovery of the electron in the late

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. This is J. J. Thompson who was playing

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Speaker 1: around with cathode rays, these strange glowing rays in these

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Speaker 1: tubes where they had pumped out most of the gas. Mmm. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: So you're saying that, I guess we tried bringing down

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Speaker 1: rocks as small as we could and at some point,

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Speaker 1: which chemistry, you get to the idea of like maybe

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Speaker 1: there's the smallest possible bit of stuff. And so we

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Speaker 1: knew about atoms, but maybe we thought that, you know,

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Speaker 1: there was a carbon atom and that was different than

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Speaker 1: a hydrogen atom, and that was different than an oxygen atom, right,

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Speaker 1: Like that's kind of where we were before we thought

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Speaker 1: about things smaller than an atom exactly. And there's a

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Speaker 1: reductive approach, and so we wonder, like, well, what makes

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Speaker 1: a carbon atom different from an oxygen atom? Is that

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Speaker 1: just it is that like the fundamental element of the universe.

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Speaker 1: It's like the carbon genus and the oxygen genus or

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Speaker 1: is there some quality to carbon that makes it carbon

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Speaker 1: ey and a different quality that makes it oxygen e? Right,

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Speaker 1: And so we wonder like, is that come out of

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Speaker 1: the internal structure? Are there the same bits inside are

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Speaker 1: arranged in different ways? Can we explain them in terms

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Speaker 1: of another deeper layer of reality? And so that's of

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Speaker 1: course the goal of particle physics to keep tearing things

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Speaker 1: apart and understand in the relationship between these things and

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Speaker 1: what explains their nature what makes carbon carbony and what

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Speaker 1: makes oxygen oxygen e? Right? Right? Because I guess it

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Speaker 1: could have been that could have been the answer, right,

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Speaker 1: Like we could have lived in the universe where carbon

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Speaker 1: was one of the fundamental particles and oxygen was one

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Speaker 1: of the fundamental you know, units of the universe, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: it could have been that. But you're saying that once

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Speaker 1: we discovered the electron, then we started to take apart

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Speaker 1: the atoms in theory, Yes, and it could even have

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Speaker 1: been possible at a higher level, you know, you're talking

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Speaker 1: about elements, but it could have been that. You know,

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Speaker 1: cheese for example, it was made out of some fundamental

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Speaker 1: cheese object and couldn't be divided into smaller things cheese

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Speaker 1: is pretty fundamental, at least to my diet. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it could have been that carbon was just one thing

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Speaker 1: in the universe and oxygen was another thing. But if

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Speaker 1: that were true, some physicists would wonder, like, what's the

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Speaker 1: relationship between carbon and oxygen? Why are there two things?

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Speaker 1: Why can't I express them in terms of just one

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Speaker 1: fundamental thing? So there will always be people pushing at

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Speaker 1: that boundary and wondering if there's a deeper explanation. But

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Speaker 1: you're right, we don't know. And that's sort of where

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Speaker 1: we are today in particle physics. With a few objects

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Speaker 1: we think maybe our fundamental and we wonder about their

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Speaker 1: relationships and if there is a deeper explanation. Right, Because

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Speaker 1: we eventually broke apart the item, we discovered the electrons

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Speaker 1: and the protons, and then the protons can be broken

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Speaker 1: into courts, and the courts can be can be broken

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Speaker 1: into cheese. Right, I hope that we discover some new

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Speaker 1: quantum property and we call it cheese. We've called them

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Speaker 1: flavor and color, right, it would be just as inappropriate. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I was just kidding, But really we were down

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Speaker 1: to like the court level. Right, as far as we know,

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Speaker 1: when you try to break stuff down to its smallest level,

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Speaker 1: we're down to corks and electrons and like their cousins

430
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 1: in the periodic table of the standard model. Yeah, and

431
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: all of this is just like a hierarchy of our understanding.

432
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: It doesn't really define what we're talking about. Like we're

433
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 1: talking about an electron, we're talking about quirks we haven't

434
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 1: really specified, like what is that thing? You know, it's

435
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 1: a word, we're saying, it's part of the and but

436
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: what do we mean is going on inside the atom?

437
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: What is the nature of these things? Right? I mean,

438
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: that's basically the question we're asking today is what is

439
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 1: exactly an electron and what exactly is a court? Because

440
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 1: we as far as we know, you can't break those

441
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: down into smaller little bits, right. And the cool thing

442
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 1: is that you can make a lot of progress doing

443
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 1: particle physics without knowing the answer to that question. You

444
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 1: can talk about the relationships between these things. You can

445
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: build one thing out of other things without even really

446
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: understanding what it is you're talking about. And that's sort

447
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: of my job is to try to make progress even

448
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: though we don't understand like the core fundamentals, the true

449
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: foundation of the nature of reality right, right, because we've

450
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: talked about this in the podcast before. How there's this

451
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: kind of progression, right, like to do engineering at least,

452
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: like to build a building, you don't really need to

453
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: know chemistry, and to do chemistry, you don't really need

454
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: to know understand quantum particles, and to and to put

455
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 1: together an atom, you don't really sort of need to

456
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: know what is exactly a particle in a mathematical sense.

457
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: But your job is to like go as deep as

458
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: you can and break that down until like nobody can

459
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 1: ever break it down anymore. Yeah, And that's true that

460
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: you don't need, for example, to understand quantum gravity to

461
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: predict the path of hurricanes. And I'm grateful that the

462
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: world works this way and sort of layers of emergent theories,

463
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: so you don't need to know how the universe begin

464
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: order to make chicken soup, for example. But we're sort

465
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: of clueless at another level more than just like the

466
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: engineers not understanding how the corks work. We're dealing with

467
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 1: corks and we still don't really know what they are,

468
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: and we have these mathematical tools that we can use

469
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: to predict what they're going to do, but they are

470
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: so strange and so counter to our intuition that we

471
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: can't really answer the question, like, what is this thing

472
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: we're talking about? We have the math that describes it,

473
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 1: but we don't have like an intuitive grasp of it.

474
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 1: So then that's what you mean by particle. When we're

475
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: asking what is a particle, we're really asking what is

476
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: a cork? And what is an electro? Exactly? What is

477
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: this thing we're talking about? What does it mean? What

478
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: is its fundamental nature? And more than that, like what

479
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: makes a cork different from an electron? The way you

480
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: were talking about, like maybe carbon could just be different

481
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: from oxygen. It could just be two fundamental elements of

482
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 1: the universe. Why is a cork different from an electron?

483
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: Like what makes them different? One of them has more

484
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: cheese obviously. All right, let's get into possible ideas for

485
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: what a particle could be, and as always, we'll talk

486
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: about what does it all mean? Man, So let's get

487
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: into that, but first let's take a quick break. All right,

488
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: we are asking fundamental questions here on the podcast today, Daniel,

489
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: we're asking what exactly is a particle? I mean, we

490
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 1: know that matter can be broken down into atoms, and

491
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: adams can be broken down into electrons and corks. But

492
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: what exactly is an electron or a cork. That's a

493
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: difficult question to answer. It is, and when you'd say particle,

494
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: most people probably imagine like a tiny little dot of matter,

495
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: like the smallest bit of stuff. And you heard some

496
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: of the listeners answering in that way, and that's very convenient,

497
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: but it's sort of an extrapolation of an intuitive idea

498
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: you had that like, rocks are made out of small rocks,

499
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: and those rocks are mad out of even smaller rocks,

500
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: and when you get down to it, the universe is

501
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: basically a bunch of super tiny little rocks. It does

502
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: rock the universe the little cheesy sometimes, but it kind

503
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,479
Speaker 1: of rocks. It rocks my world for sure. But we

504
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 1: know that that's not a completely accurate picture because when

505
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: you get down to the quantum level, the rules do change.

506
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: The rules for rocks are the classical rules. You know,

507
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: the things move through the universe smoothly and continuously, that

508
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: they follow rules of where you used to If something

509
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: is here and then later it's there, it went from

510
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: here to there. We also know that the quantum particles.

511
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: The super tiniest little rocks in the universe don't follow

512
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: those rules, so we need like a new concept for

513
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: what's going on down there. At the very smallest level,

514
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: we just say they're little, tiny rocks, right, because like

515
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 1: one kind of physics is good for keeping track of rocks,

516
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: that's Newtonian physics. But at the smallest level and things

517
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: get quantum, things get kind of fuzzy, and then it's

518
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: they're more accurately represented by waves, right, Yeah, And we

519
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 1: have these equations, these wave equations, which seem to control

520
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: what happened to these little objects, these little particles, and

521
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: we can solve those wave equations, and they predict with

522
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: a probability where these particles are likely to go. But

523
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: already we're presented with a confusion, like, well, are we

524
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: talking about these things as a wave as a particle? Do?

525
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: I sometimes talk about them as a particle, sometimes talk

526
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: about them as a wave. And hear lots of people

527
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: saying that these objects are waves most of the time,

528
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: but then when you look at them, they become particles. Right,

529
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: that's a common picture. But I think that that's not

530
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: really an accurate way to think about it. I think

531
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: more accurate is to think that these objects are something

532
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: new and different. There neither particles nor waves, though they

533
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: can sometimes be described in analogy by either of those pictures.

534
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: Interesting because I always thought about it them as you know,

535
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: they're waves that sort of looked like particles from Afar.

536
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: If you get down to the smallest level, they look

537
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 1: like a wave, but if you used to just kind

538
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 1: of pull back, they look more like a little bit

539
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: of stuff moving around, except that sometimes they look like waves.

540
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: Even from Afar. You know, you can see interference effects,

541
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,479
Speaker 1: which are macroscopic effects. A double slit experiment shows you

542
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: that particles passing through those slits interfere with themselves and

543
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: create these like macroscopic effects. This interference patterns on the screen.

544
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: So these wave like effects can also influence you know,

545
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: real visible stuff. Okay, so then that's one definition of

546
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: a particle is that it's a collapse wave or like

547
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: a wave that when you that that when you look

548
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: at it becomes a particle kind of. There is a

549
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: common attempt to sort of weave together this idea that

550
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: maybe a particle is a wave and sometimes it acts

551
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: like a particle when you look at it. Right. The

552
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 1: problem of course, is that we don't really know what

553
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: it means to say you look at it. We've had

554
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: a few podcasts on this topic of the quantum mechanics

555
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: measurement problem, like what does it mean to look at

556
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: something and collapse its wave function? Why when an electron

557
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: is flying along through the universe does the universe suddenly decide, Okay,

558
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: we're going to take on particle like little mini rock

559
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: like properties and decide now where the electron actually is.

560
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: Whereas a minute ago we were happy having it being

561
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: a quantum wave and having uncertainty to it. What makes

562
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: the universe decide to draw from this random probability distribution

563
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: and decide where the electron is so that you can

564
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: look at it with your experiments. It sounds to me

565
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: kind of like what's in your head is that you're

566
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: thinking that a particle is something that has like a

567
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: definite location and boundary and velocity and like you know

568
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: where it is. It's like a little rock that's just

569
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: sitting on your desk. But a quantum wave is different

570
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: than that. Like, a quantum wave is not like a

571
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: little rock, right, Like it's it's that boundary between uncertainty

572
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: and certainty that maybe you think the definition of a

573
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: particle is that's a the way to put it, and

574
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: the reason is that we can't see uncertainty in that way.

575
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: We can't measure the quantum wave function directly. We can't

576
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: see a photon as in two states at the same time.

577
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: We don't observe that. Ever, our experiments, they count particles.

578
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: That's why particles are such a compelling concept. It's because

579
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: it's what we see in our experiments. We can do

580
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: single photon experiments when we see a one photon fly

581
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: across the room and hit a screen. We never see

582
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: a photon like in two possible states at once. That's

583
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: only like what the universe does when it's calculating what

584
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: might happen in your experiment. It's nothing we actually observe.

585
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: That's why we use the word particle when we talk

586
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: about things we actually observe, because that's all we can observe.

587
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: We can't see those waves directly. Oh, I see what

588
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: you're saying. You're saying that maybe one possible definition of

589
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: the word particle is it's what happens when you sample

590
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: a quantum wavefunction, right, it starts after the particle is

591
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: seen or interact with something else before that it's not

592
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: a particle. That's a common idea and it's compelling, but

593
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: it's deeply, deeply flawed, right, because you don't have a

594
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: clear definition for what it means to look at it

595
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: or to sample it. You know, like we talked about before,

596
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: if you're gonna poke this electron with your finger, then

597
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: you know it has a wave function. Maybe it's here

598
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: and gets poked by your finger, or maybe it's over

599
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: there and it doesn't get poked. But when you touch

600
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: it with your finger, the universe has to decide. But

601
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: how does that happen? Because in the end, your finger

602
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: is also made out of quantum particles, right, It's just

603
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: made out of other electrons and quirks. So why can't

604
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: it just interact in an uncertain way with that electron

605
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: and leave things uncertain? At what point does your finger

606
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: become a classical object that forces the universe to collapse

607
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: the wave function? And what point can it stay uncollapsed?

608
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: That's not defined, it's not specified, and that's what makes

609
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: that picture totally unsatisfactory. And it also kind of leads

610
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: you to the problem of like, what is it before

611
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: before it collapsed or what is it before you measured it? Right,

612
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: it's like a pre particle almost, which that doesn't help you. Yeah,

613
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: what is that thing that's going through the universe? Like?

614
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: Is the wave functioning a real physical thing? Is it

615
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: just a calculation that's in our minds that we used

616
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: to predict these things? Is the universe doing that calculation

617
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: somewhere in its internal computer? Like? What's going on? What's

618
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: going on? Man? All right? So that's kind of one idea.

619
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: What you're saying. It's kind of flawed because they kind

620
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: of doesn't help you. But then maybe what if I

621
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: just think of a particle as that wave? Right? Like,

622
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: what if I think of the particle as just an

623
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: excitation of a quantum field. So the way the history

624
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: went was that Schereninger develops his wave equation as a

625
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: way to describe what's going on with these particles, and

626
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: it worked amazingly. I loved you know, he just wrote

627
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: this thing down and he had no real justification for it,

628
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: you know, like it might have worked, and then it

629
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: just kind of did, like wow, and predicted experiments. That's cool,

630
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: But it turned out to be very hard to use

631
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: because it really just describes one particle flying through the universe,

632
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: and you know, the universe is filled with particles, and

633
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: so as soon as you have like multiple particles, three

634
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: or four, ten seven particles, it's basically hopeless. You know,

635
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: you can't use the short in your equation to solve

636
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: any realistic problem. So then the mathematical and physical geniuses

637
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: in the first part of the last century developed this

638
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: new idea of a field. Right, they have this idea

639
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: of a field from classical physics. You know, electromagnetic field

640
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: already existed, and they say, well, what if there are

641
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: these quantum fields, and instead of describing one electron over

642
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: here is one short in or wave, and that electron

643
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: over there is another shorting of wave, we unify it

644
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: into a big picture of an electron field, and both

645
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: electrons are just wiggles in that field. And then we

646
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: could just like you know, think about the motion of

647
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: that field rather than the motion of individual electrons. I see,

648
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: like before we thought of maybe electrons as like separate magnets,

649
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: like there's one magnet over here, there's another magnet over there.

650
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: But another way to think about them together, it's like

651
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: they're all part of the same magnet, right, or they're

652
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: all part of the same magnetic field of the universe. Yeah,

653
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: and it's a really powerful idea, not just because it's helpful,

654
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: like it lets you do calculations you otherwise couldn't do.

655
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: The Shorting equation, for example, describes how a particle moves

656
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: to the universe. It's very difficult to describe the creation

657
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 1: or the annihilation of particles, but we know that happens

658
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: all the time when you use fields. However, it's no

659
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: big deal, Like you can create a particle, just excite

660
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 1: the field another step. It's just like take the string

661
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: and strum it harder. Or you can describe the destruction

662
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 1: of particles when the field relaxes and releases that energy

663
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: into like another field. So things that were hard now

664
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: become natural. Right, And so in this view, the universe

665
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: is filled with a field, and a particle is really

666
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: just like a little like excitation in that field, like

667
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: a little like a blip in it almost, And so

668
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: we're all just made out of blips. Yeah, and don't

669
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: underestimate the physical implications of that. It means that particles

670
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: are not the fundamental element of the universe we're talking

671
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: before about like fundamental versus emergent. Right, like ice cream

672
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: cones are not fundamental property of the universe. You could

673
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: expect there to be a universe where there are no

674
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: ice cream cones, and maybe there won't be in the future,

675
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: sorry to say. In that same sense, this means that

676
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: particle holes in this view are not fundamental to the universe.

677
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: They just like sort of are a description of how

678
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: fields wiggle. The fields are the real fundamental building blocks

679
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: of the universe. That what the universe is is space

680
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: filled with quantum fields, and those fields wiggle in certain

681
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 1: ways that we call particles. Yeah, like you, it's almost

682
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: like we were looking at the tale of an elephant

683
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: and we didn't know that. Really what's important is that

684
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: there's a whole elephant and from us. Yeah, and it's

685
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: really beautiful. As you get into the mathematics of quantum fields,

686
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: you see so many symmetries and patterns emerge that just

687
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: strike you as like, wow, I'm reading the truth about

688
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: the universe. We talked in a recent podcast episode about

689
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: a really subtle concept, gauge symmetry, which talks about like

690
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: how these fields are related to each other. You can

691
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: like rotate these fields so that one turns into another one,

692
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: and you see these symmetries exist in our universe, and

693
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: there are the reasons for things like why is electric

694
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: charge conserved because there's a symmetry in the photons field

695
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: it were wires photons to exist and acquires electromagnetism. So

696
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: it really like feels like you're reading the deep truth

697
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,959
Speaker 1: of the universe when you get immersed in quantum field theory.

698
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: But I guess the basic idea is to define a

699
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 1: particle is just a little blip in the field, right,

700
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: and it's really the field that kind of puts together

701
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: the things in the universe. Yeah, you can have fields

702
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: that exist without having any particles in them. And then

703
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: a particle, as you say, is like you start with

704
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: a vacuum and you put energy into it and it excites,

705
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: And that's what a particle is. And it's not just

706
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: that it's much more mathematically handy to do these calculation

707
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: it also sort of solves a really deep problem which

708
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: you alluded to earlier. Somebody asked Freemandeyson, the famous physicist,

709
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 1: once what he thought was the greatest accomplishment in physics

710
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: and the last fifty years, and he said that it

711
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: was quantum field theory being able to explain why all

712
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: electrons are the same. And you were saying earlier, like

713
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: you can think of electrons is like just different magnets.

714
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: But if you think about that, why I are all

715
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: electrons the same? If electrons are just different particles, why

716
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: do they all have the same mass? And quantum field

717
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: theory it answers that because it says, well, there aren't

718
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: a bunch of different electrons. There's just really one electron.

719
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: It's just all the same excitation in the same field.

720
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: There's only just one electron field in the universe. But

721
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: how does that ans really question? Like why is this

722
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: blip in this field the same as the blip in

723
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: the field over there? Because the field only knows how

724
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: to blip in a certain way. It's a quantum field, right,

725
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: it can blip once or twice or three times. It

726
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: can't blimp like one point to five times, right, that's

727
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: just what the field knows how to do. The field

728
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 1: itself has a mass. It gets that mass from the

729
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: Higgs boson, and it gets the same mass over here

730
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: as it gets over there, and it gets an alpha centauri.

731
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: And so the single field that fills the universe, that

732
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: controls all of the electrons. So then I guess what's

733
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: wrong with this picture of a particle? Is there anything

734
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: wrong with this of looking at particles? It's just excitations

735
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: in the field. So if you ask particle physicists what's

736
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: more fundamental a field or a particle, A lot of

737
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: them say the fields are that this is sort of

738
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: prevailing view. But there's sort of a stubborn minority that

739
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: say no, no no, no, no. Fields are just the thing

740
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: we used to calculate. Mima or Kannie Hahmed, who is

741
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: a famous physicist at the Institute for Advanced Study in

742
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: Princeton and widely considered like one of the smartest dues around,

743
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: he said, the fields are just a convenient fiction. And

744
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: the thing is that we don't see fields directly. Right.

745
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: Particles are the things that we see. They are the

746
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: things that we observe in our experiments and the things

747
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: we smashed together in our colliders. Fields are what we

748
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: used to do calculations. But like, are they real? The

749
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: particles themselves are the things that we see that we

750
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: can count, that we can interact with, right, Like, like,

751
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: is it a thing or is it? Just? Like? I

752
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: guess the consequence of how the universe works, like the

753
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: math of the universe. Just because we have a mathematical

754
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: description of how things work doesn't mean that it's real, right,

755
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: what's real is what we see in our experiments, and

756
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: those are particles, and we see how particles bounce off

757
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: each other, and we see how particles interact with each other.

758
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: And you can view the whole system of the universe

759
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 1: mathematically without using fields, like you can say there are

760
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: no fields, There are just particles and particles when they

761
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: interact with each other, they don't use fields. They use

762
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: virtual particles. So like when electrons push against each other,

763
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: what's happening is they're exchanging photons. So you can replace fields,

764
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: which just like sums over infinite virtual particles, and it's

765
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,919
Speaker 1: mathematically totally equivalent. You can do like all the same

766
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: calculations using virtual particles. So like our fields just a

767
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: way to express zillions of virtual particles all flying around

768
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 1: or are particles just like vibrations in these fields. They're

769
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: fundamentally mathematically equivalent. And it's a bit of a philosophical question,

770
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: which is the right picture of the universe. I see

771
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: you're saying, like maybe thinking of a particle or defining

772
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: a particles and excitation in the field may not be

773
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 1: accurate because maybe fields don't exist. So and so maybe

774
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense for something to be of an

775
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,240
Speaker 1: expectation of something that doesn't exist, and that maybe particles

776
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: are just their own thing and fields are just like

777
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: this mathematical convenience that ties all the particles together. Yeah,

778
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: we have this expectation that if we come up with

779
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 1: a mathematical description of the universe that works, it must

780
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: somehow be true. But it's not necessarily the case, and

781
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: it's possible potentially to have multiple distinct mathematical descriptions of

782
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: the universe that all work. And so you can't claim that, oh, like,

783
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: I need fields to do my calculations, so therefore field

784
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: must be out there and reel in the universe. They

785
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,240
Speaker 1: could just be a way that we do the calculations,

786
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: all right. So you're saying kind of maybe um math

787
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: is wrong or the math doesn't exist. We're saying maybe

788
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: fields don't exist. Right. Math definitely exists, but we don't

789
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: know necessarily if it's fundamental to the universe or just

790
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: part of the way that we think. All right, So

791
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: then that's another view of what a particle is. What's

792
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: another way we can look at particles. Another way we

793
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: can look at particles is maybe they are not fundamental.

794
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: Maybe they're just like zoomed out, wiggling other things. You know,

795
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: take like the field perspective to the extreme and say, like, well,

796
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: what makes an electron different from a cork If you

797
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: say that the electron is a vibration the electron field,

798
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: and the cork is a vibration the cork field, why

799
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: do we have these two fields, the cork field and

800
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: the electron field. Are they somehow related? Is there a

801
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: deeper relationship? And so string theory, for example, is a

802
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 1: view that those two different fields, the electron field in

803
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: the cork field are actually just one. Is some deeper

804
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,919
Speaker 1: field that like can vibrate in these other dimensions, and

805
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: it looks like an electron field if it's vibrating one way,

806
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: and it looks like a cork field if it's vibrating

807
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: in another way. And so this of course is string theory,

808
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 1: the idea that the whole universe is built on these

809
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: super tiny vibrating strings. Interesting, like, there's only one field

810
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: in the universe and it can vibrate in different ways. Yeah,

811
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: one basic universe stuff, And that would be really satisfying

812
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,479
Speaker 1: because it would be a very simple answer, like what's

813
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: fundamental universe? While you got this one thing and you

814
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: can vibrate this way and it looks like a cork field,

815
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: and to con vibrate the other way and it looks

816
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: like an electron field. Like you were saying earlier, when

817
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: you zoom out, they look different. When you zoom in,

818
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: you can tell, Oh, it's the same old thing, just

819
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 1: acting differently. All right, let's get into this with a

820
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: little bit more detail, and let's drink people along on

821
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: what strength theory is. And let's take another quick break.

822
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: All right, we're talking about deep questions today. We are

823
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: questioning what does it mean to be a particle? What

824
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: is the definition of that, and what does it mean

825
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: in terms of how it matches up with reality and

826
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: how things really are. And so we talked about different

827
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: ideas for what a particle could be, and the late

828
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 1: one we talked about was about string theory, like maybe

829
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 1: particles are just little vibrations in some kind of universal

830
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: field that's just out there in the universe. Yeah, and

831
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: you can take this as like an extrapolation of our

832
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: current ideas of particles as excitations in a bunch of

833
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: different quantum fields. Maybe we can unify all those fields

834
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: together into the one universe field, and then electrons are

835
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: a different kind of wiggle than quirks, and different kind

836
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,919
Speaker 1: of wiggle than neutrinos, And that would answer a whole

837
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: bunch of really fascinating questions. You know, why are electrons

838
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: different from neutrinos. It turns out it's just because they're

839
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: wiggling and these other dimensions differently than neutrinos are. It

840
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: would be super cool. So in strength theory, that that

841
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: is what's kind of being assumed that is happening is

842
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: that there's one field, you know, and is there a

843
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: name for this field? The field? Not really, I guess

844
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 1: if there's just one field, you don't have to give

845
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: it names, right, the answer to distinguish things, it's the

846
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: capital F field. Yeah. But you have string that are

847
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: like one dimensional vibrations. You have brains which are like

848
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: two dimensional surfaces brains B R, A, n E as

849
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: in membrane, not as in brains like the thing in

850
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: inside your skull. Right, But these are just that's like

851
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 1: a mathematical concept. It's not really something that vibrates. It's

852
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: just kind of like the dimensions of it, right, or

853
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: the space of it. Well, you can have one dimensional objects,

854
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: which are the strings, and you can also have two

855
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 1: dimensional objects, which would be the brains, and these strings

856
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: can sometimes vibrate between the brains. You can have all

857
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: sorts of complicated things, but the fundamental elements of the universe,

858
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: the particles that we're familiar with, would be made out

859
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: of these one dimensional vibrating strings that vibrate differently. And again,

860
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: you know, this is all speculative. We have no evidence

861
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: for string theory. We don't even know if string theory

862
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: is the right theory to do this. But as an

863
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: example of how you could go deeper and you could

864
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 1: get at some of these really interesting questions about like,

865
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: you know, what makes quarks and electrons different the same

866
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: we we were wondering, like what makes carbon different from oxygen? Right?

867
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: It is that made be Electrons and corks are not

868
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: actually particles, They're just like things put together from a

869
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: smaller particle, right Yeah, Or maybe they are fields that

870
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: vibrate in different ways and that's why they look different.

871
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: So instead of thinking about the electron is made up

872
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: of smaller things. Think of it like as a version

873
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: of one larger thing, like the way we think about

874
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: like the electron and the positron has two sides of

875
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: the same coin, rather than two separate particles. We can

876
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: think about the electron and the corks and the neutrinos

877
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,240
Speaker 1: and all these different particles as different kinds of wiggles

878
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: that this one field can do. And so the electron

879
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: field wouldn't exist really, even though we currently have a

880
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: mathematical description for it. It would actually just be like

881
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: a sub field of the the field. In the same

882
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: way that like, does ice cream really exist? It's useful

883
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: to talk about ice cream when you're doing physics at

884
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: one level, it's not really useful to talk about like

885
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: the fields it's made out of. Ice cream does exist,

886
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: even if it's actually just a bunch of vibrating fields.

887
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: So in that same sense, like, yes, the electron feel

888
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: is a useful thing to talk about if you're like

889
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: doing experiments with electrons, even if deep down it's just

890
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: like a particular flavor of this universal string field. Well,

891
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: I think the ice cream is definitely real. In my waistline.

892
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: It tastes really good, that's right. Yeah, as real flavor.

893
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: But that's kind of one idea for a particle. But

894
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: then you don't you run into the same problem you

895
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: did before, which is like, is a particle of vibration

896
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: and excitation of this field or is the field itself?

897
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: The field really the fundamental thing about the universe? Yeah,

898
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: it doesn't answer that philosophical questions, just sort of like

899
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: goes deeper down. The fields are fundamental route to try

900
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: to unify all the fields into one field. It doesn't

901
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,959
Speaker 1: answer the fundamental question of our the fields actually real

902
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,959
Speaker 1: or is this just a mathematical picture? And that's something

903
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: we might not ever be able to probe because in

904
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: the end of fields are not something we see in

905
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: the same way that early on in quantum mechanics, we

906
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: had this idea of a wave function. But you can't

907
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: see the wave function directly. You just see the particles

908
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: and you do calculations about how the wave function influences

909
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 1: the particles, but you never see the wave function. You

910
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: can't see things in a quantum superposition, for example, And

911
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 1: so it doesn't answer that philosophical question. All right, So

912
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 1: another alternative, but maybe not a great definition of a particle.

913
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 1: What is maybe another definition of a particle. Well, there

914
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: are some folks that take a completely different view and

915
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 1: trying to build a completely different idea for what a

916
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 1: particle is. And I love these kinds of approaches because

917
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: they like overthrow everything we've been working on for our

918
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: hundred years and start from scratch. These are the folks

919
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 1: that look at the universe as built out of little

920
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 1: bits of space, you know, instead of looking at spaces

921
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: like smooth and continuous. They say, well, what if space

922
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: is made out of pixels and all those pixels are

923
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: woven together using quantum entanglement. So you have this new

924
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 1: view of the universe as like a bunch of little

925
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: quantum pixels that are woven together into a fabric that

926
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 1: we call space. Right there is the thedea of like

927
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: we space is kind of like a foam almost right,

928
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: Like it's not a thing, and it's not like a

929
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: big emptyiness. It's actually like basically like a giant um,

930
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: like a giant massive of bubbles right sort of adjacent

931
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: to each other. So you start with that idea, and

932
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: then you take it one step further and you make

933
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: analogies to ideas we've discovered in quantum computers. Quantum computers

934
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,720
Speaker 1: are this different way to do calculations. By using quantum

935
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 1: mechanical objects instead of classical objects like transistors or switches,

936
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: you can do all sorts of weird different calculations. And

937
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: if you aren't familiar with quantum computers, with the whole

938
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: podcast episode on what that is. But some of the

939
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: ideas from quantum computers people think might be applicable to

940
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: this sort of like quantum space time. And so you

941
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: can think of sort of like this quantum spacetime, this

942
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: quantum foam. It's sort of like a huge array of cubits,

943
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: these like fundamental elements of a quantum computer. You're started

944
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: talking about maybe like reducing the physical universe down to

945
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: just like information ation, Right, that's kind of one view

946
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: of the universe is that it's not like real, it's

947
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: not something tangible or spacious. It's actually just all kind

948
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: of information ones and zeros. Yes, it's all about information,

949
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: and quantum computing is about how you manipulate information. In fact,

950
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 1: all computing is about manipulating information to try to get

951
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: the answer to a question that you have, and quantum

952
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: computers manipulate information in a different way than classical computers,

953
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: and one of the issues they have when they're dealing

954
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,839
Speaker 1: with information and quantum computers is how to do things

955
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: like error correction because quantum computers are a bit fuzzy,

956
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 1: are a bit messy, and so they're trying to recover

957
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: information sometimes when it's been fuzzed up and lost from

958
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 1: quantum computers. And people have found that this actually is

959
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: very similar to questions of like trying to get information

960
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 1: out of a black hole. Another topic we've talked about

961
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: in the podcast a lot is like what happens to

962
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,919
Speaker 1: information when it goes into a black hole? Particles fall

963
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: into black hole, they contain information. If that black hole

964
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: eventually evaporates due to Hawking creation, where is that information gone?

965
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,240
Speaker 1: And is this potential solution to this quantum information black

966
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,240
Speaker 1: hole problem that says maybe there's like quantum entanglements between

967
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: the inside and the outside of the black hole. And

968
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: people have restruction this now in terms of quantum computing

969
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: and seeing connections between solutions to quantum computing error correction

970
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: problems and black hole information problems and all that just

971
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: to say like maybe it makes sense to look at

972
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: the whole universe is like one massive quantum computer whoa.

973
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: I mean, like maybe it makes sense, like you found

974
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: connections between the physical world and this information world, and

975
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: so maybe the whole universe is just information. Maybe the

976
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 1: whole universe is just information. And then the connection back

977
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: to the question of the episode what is a particle?

978
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: Is that in some of these space times that arise

979
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: from looking at the whole universe as a bunch of

980
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: quantum bits that are all entangled, there are these entanglement

981
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: patterns that sort of emerge, and they correspond to like

982
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 1: localized bits of energy floating in our three D world.

983
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: And so what you see in these quantum computers are

984
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: like these packets of information that like to stick together

985
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: and float through that quantum world. And is this what

986
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: a particle is? You know? Do we have particles in

987
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: our actual universe? Because underneath we have this quantum phone

988
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: that likes to entangle in certain ways, so that information

989
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,919
Speaker 1: propagates and these like discrete blobs through the spacetime. It's

990
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 1: very tentative and it's very speculative, but it's a fun,

991
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: sort of brand new idea for what like a particle

992
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: might be. Well, yeah, I think I need to smoke

993
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 1: some more bid and wrap my head around this, But

994
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: it sounds like you're saying like maybe the nature of

995
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 1: the universe isn't the way we experience it. It's maybe

996
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: just all abstract information, like you know, my the fact

997
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 1: that I'm here. I'm not really here next to you

998
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: or next to this my desk. I'm really just like

999
00:51:55,040 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 1: one quantum bit clump of information in a represent in

1000
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: some universal computer. And this desk is also a clump

1001
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: of information. And some of we're all sort of related

1002
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: by quantum entanglement, and that we interpret that entanglement as

1003
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 1: like me being next to it. Yeah, and there are

1004
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: these rules these quantum bits like to follow, and that

1005
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: these behaviors that emerge from the way they interact, and

1006
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: some of those behaviors are what we would describe as particles.

1007
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 1: And so we're part of this system and we look around,

1008
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: we observe it, we describe these things. Doesn't mean that

1009
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 1: what we see is fundamental. What we see is emergent.

1010
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: It's more like ice creams and hurricanes than the actual

1011
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: units of the universe. And you can refashion these particles

1012
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: in terms of you know, some sort of like weird

1013
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 1: quantum bits as part of the universal computer. You know, again,

1014
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: this is like a speculative idea that is like ten

1015
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: years from being even a tentative idea, but it's already

1016
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: got a cool name. They call it it from cubit

1017
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 1: meaning like the whole universe comes from quantum computers. WHOA, Like,

1018
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: it's like something in the universe Earth is actually just

1019
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: a bit of information kind of right, yeah, like for

1020
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,439
Speaker 1: something to be defined as something, it's all just information. Yeah. Yeah.

1021
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: The deeper idea is, if you assemble information in this

1022
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 1: sort of self organizing way, self perpetuating way, does that

1023
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: create a reality? Can reality just be like a projection

1024
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: of this informational arrangement? And so like you need several

1025
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,439
Speaker 1: more layers of an appeals to really understand the meaning

1026
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 1: of that. But it's kind of like how you know

1027
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 1: if I play a video game on my PlayStation that

1028
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 1: there's this whole world, but it's really just writing on

1029
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 1: top of a bunch of you know, transistors, and it's

1030
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 1: all writing and as information as ones and zeros zipping about.

1031
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:42,959
Speaker 1: You're saying like maybe an electron is not really a thing.

1032
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,280
Speaker 1: It's just like a bit of information sort of writing

1033
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: on top of this quantum foam computer that is actually

1034
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: the universe. Yeah, or maybe that's what a thing is.

1035
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 1: That's what it means to be a thing is to

1036
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: be part of this quantum information in the universe computer

1037
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: those all the things we've her experience are just that,

1038
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 1: and that's what a thing is. And so it's a

1039
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: super fun idea because it gives you this like glimpse

1040
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:10,240
Speaker 1: into an alternative view of the workings of the universe

1041
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: at like the deepest level. But you know, it could

1042
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: also just be bunk or clue, or it could all

1043
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:20,439
Speaker 1: just be in an aliens PlayStation quantum PlayStation PlayStation qute.

1044
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: Why don't they just press the cheek codes already so

1045
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: I can get to the next level? Yeah, when am

1046
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: I going to upgrade? That's what I'm waiting for. But

1047
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:30,399
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, maybe I wonder if it could

1048
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: be all all be Like all of these ideas about particles,

1049
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: I wonder if they could all be true. You know,

1050
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 1: like maybe an electron is a bit of information on

1051
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: a quantum computer, and it's also a vibration in a

1052
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: one unifying field, and it's also collapse wavefunction, you know,

1053
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Like, maybe these all

1054
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: these ideas are just different ways of looking at what's

1055
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: actually true, just like sort of Raschumn style, we might

1056
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: all have different stories to describe the same series of events.

1057
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: There might be multiple ways to describe reality that are

1058
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 1: self consistent and predict experiments and yet fundamentally at their hearts,

1059
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: like conceptionally very different. And that's a little scary because

1060
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: it means that maybe there isn't a single truth about

1061
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: the universe. Maybe there are multiple truths, or maybe there

1062
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: is no truth. There are just those stories, those mathematical

1063
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: stories we tell ourselves about the way the universe out

1064
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: there works. And so to you know, bring it back

1065
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 1: to aliens again. I think it would be really exciting

1066
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: to talk to alien physicists and discover, like, do they

1067
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 1: have a completely different way of thinking about the universe?

1068
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: Is a particle even a concept for them? Or have

1069
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: they discovered the same structures as we have and what

1070
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 1: does that mean about their universality? Right? Or like we

1071
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: talked about earlier, maybe there is a truth like there

1072
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 1: is such a thing as a particle, but our brains

1073
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,840
Speaker 1: and our way of doing or you know, limitations and

1074
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: math and thinking only allow us to look at it

1075
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 1: in these different ways. But really, there is a truth

1076
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: that which but we just don't get it or can't

1077
00:55:58,440 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: get it, or we get it as much as our

1078
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: dogs understand hurricanes or maybe your dogs of view of

1079
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 1: the universe is the correct one, right, May we're just

1080
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 1: overthinking things, Daniel's what I'm saying. Maybe the universe is

1081
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: really just all about treats and not treats. Yeah, and naps.

1082
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: Really that's the fundamental element of the universe, the knaps. Certainly,

1083
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: your dog seems happier than most particle physicists. True, I

1084
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 1: think my dog is having a better life than I am.

1085
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 1: That we should all be dogs. We should. I'll be

1086
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 1: my dog. But I guess again, just another interesting, you know,

1087
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,879
Speaker 1: exploration into what it means for things to be real

1088
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: in this universe and what's at the heart of reality.

1089
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: You know, it seems like we we still don't know

1090
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: and may never know. We still don't know, and we

1091
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 1: may never know. But we're gonna have fun along the

1092
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 1: way and make a lot of friends. And you know,

1093
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: even if you answer this question, you know, what is

1094
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 1: a particle? And you decided when you did some experiment

1095
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: or some philosophical argument to persuade yourself that fields where

1096
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 1: the fundamental element of the universe. You could still ask,

1097
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 1: all right, but why why does space have fields in it?

1098
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: Where these deals come from? Right? Do you have to

1099
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 1: have fields? Could you have space without fields? So even

1100
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 1: if you answered all these questions, you would still have

1101
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: plenty of stuff to dig into. Or you can say

1102
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: the alternative, which is um, whatever, time to take a nap. Yeah,

1103
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: I'd like to eat a treat, take a nap. That

1104
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: is something actually that professors and dogs have in common,

1105
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: is taking afternoon naps. You're a little rougher. Well, my

1106
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: bark's not as bad as my bite. All right, Well,

1107
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: we hope you enjoyed that trip into asking questions about

1108
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: reality and what does it all mean to be something

1109
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: in the universe? And this is a question for me

1110
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: of particular interest. We'd like to send you off today

1111
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 1: with a song sent in by a listener, Ben Kelly.

1112
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: This song captures the spirit of wonder we feel when

1113
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 1: we think about the amazing strangeness of reality. So this

1114
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 1: is Ben Kelly and his band The Amber Bugs. We

1115
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: took a used at nature and saw there's nothing No

1116
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: bad rocks build from a floor on the feet that

1117
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: pture of the house I'm plants around the sun that

1118
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: ain't put it of th stuff juice way. Everything is

1119
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: made up like this, Everything is just made up. Everything

1120
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 1: is made up. You're gonna have to base office. It's

1121
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: not just made up. Thanks for joining us, See you

1122
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that. Daniel and

1123
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 1: Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of I Heart Radio.

1124
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: For more podcast from My Heart Radio, visit the I

1125
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: Aren't Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

1126
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.