WEBVTT - I Left Music Because It Was a Sin 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:13.760 What's up everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.680 for being here listening, wherever you're coming from, whatever platform 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:19.880 you're using. So grateful. I love doing this. It's a 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:24.480 huge honor to have done this now for seven years ish. 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.640 That's crazy, right. I remember we first started this podcast 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:32.960 in twenty seventeen and I was on tour. I believe 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:37.159 that was a Florida Georgia line tour and I can 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.159 remember playing. I was playing football with Chris Lane, who 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.159 was another artist on tour at that time, and I 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:47.199 remember throwing the football. I was like, I gotta go. 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:49.279 I gotta get back on the bus. This was back 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:51.520 when I was doing the podcast on Wildloower my bus 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:53.280 and he was like, what are you doing? What do 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.560 you gotta go? And I said, I got to go 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.320 to a podcast and he was like, why did you 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:02.080 do that? There was probably a good question then it 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.640 might be a good question now. I love it. I 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:06.600 love it. It's a huge honor to answer your questions. 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.080 You could email me podcast at grangersmith dot com. We 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:12.080 could talk about anything. I don't have notes in front 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:17.240 of me right now. I think probably the lane that 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:22.080 this podcast stays in is kind of in the way 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.839 that you would ask me a question and we're sitting 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:26.520 together in the cap of a truck or sitting around 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:28.160 a campfire, and we got some time. You say, he 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.000 got to run something by you. And at that point 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.520 I wouldn't say, well, let me put some notes together 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:36.600 and get back to you next Saturday. I would need 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:38.880 to answer you right away. So that's kind of where 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:40.880 we are with this podcast. That's the format of it. 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:43.240 And I think that's also why it would be cool 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:46.679 to do this podcast live and travel around and go 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.720 to to some different cities and hand out some microphones 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:55.280 and answer on the fly. We may do that one day. 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:57.160 I hope we do. Tyler keeps pushing me on it. 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.400 In the meantime, we're gonna do it right now in 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.320 the form of you Emailing Me podcast At grangersmith dot com. 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:05.920 I pulled up this first email and I recognize the name. 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:10.040 It's my buddy Clay, who is a deep thinker. He 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:15.360 is a dog breeder German short haired pointer at Woeelly Kennel, 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.840 and Clay is a great dude. And I know he's 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:20.320 gonna I don't know what he's about to ask me, 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:21.720 but I can tell you right now. It's gonna make 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.720 me think. So. The first email here once again is 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:29.200 podcast at grangersmith dot com, and Clay says, Granger, I've 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:33.640 been pondering your view on pride, and just like that, 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.959 here we go. Welcome to the episode, he says, knowing 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.000 that pride is the queen of all vices, and the 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.679 vices of all queens, the vice of all queens. And 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.560 I've been reluctant to use that word, he says, after 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.359 hearing that you refrain from telling your children you're proud 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:50.160 of them. I started reflecting on that word and the 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.680 feeling of pride. I have come to the conclusion that 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:58.720 pride and someone else's accomplishments can't be sinful, but pride 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:02.160 in oneself is the true sin of pride. When you're 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:04.600 at the ballgame and the national anthem is playing, and 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:06.919 the fighter jets are flying over, and you stand a 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.200 little bit taller and your shoulders reared back, that's pride 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.359 in our nation and honor for the ones who fought 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.400 to build and preserve our country. When we change out 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:19.600 the word pride for honored or pleased in conversation, it's 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.600 merely semantics. How could we avoid that feeling that we 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.480 get at a ballgame, and why should we avoid it? 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.160 He asked, PS, hopefully you'll come to Kansas City for 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:33.160 the live podcast sometimes between November first and March first, 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.400 so we could run some bird dogs together. Take care 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:39.200 of Clay. Hey, Clay, thanks for making me think. Great question, buddy, 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:41.520 and let's dive into it. I'm going to tell you 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:43.360 right off the bat, the first thing that comes to 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:47.560 my mind is when you said, you said I have 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:51.920 come to the conclusion. I'll tell you right now, I 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.760 have not come to a conclusion and I probably won't. 0:03:55.360 --> 0:04:00.920 Hopefully I'll stay unconcluded for a long time. So you're 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.080 a step ahead of me. But I'll tell you this. 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:09.280 Here's my thoughts on this. Pride, arguably in the Bible, 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:15.640 is God's most hated sin. God hates pride in us 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:20.800 more than any other sin, and he is I say 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:24.640 that because that is more vocalized in the Bible than 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:30.159 any other. God's hatred for sin for pride. Right on 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:37.320 the flip side, humility is God's most rewarded attribute of 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:42.000 one of his children in terms of he speaks more 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:46.960 about humility and the benefits of it and his how 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.320 well he pleased. He is with it than any other 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:54.960 attribute you could say, and I'm including love in that, 0:04:55.000 --> 0:05:01.359 so that's not lost on me. He also pins God 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:05.040 will pin pride and humility against each other many times. 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:09.799 Luke fourteen eleven, for instance, says, those who exalt themselves 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.799 will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.520 So it's always it's always flipped. It's always the reward 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:21.320 for humility, and it's always the punishment, the disdain, the 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:25.280 hatred for pride, and so we should eradicate it at 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:30.120 all costs. We should work on humbling ourselves. I think 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.080 humility comes in two ways. As we see in the Bible, 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.440 we see that we are humbled by God. God humbles 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:42.120 us through people, circumstances, situations. We will be humbled if 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.400 we live on planet Earth, we just will be. We 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:47.919 can't control everything, and things will happen that shut us down. 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.960 The other aspect is we are called to humble ourselves. 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:55.760 How do we do that? That's something we have to 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.000 actively do every day. We're called to humble ourselves. I 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:03.640 think that starts with, first of all, seeing God for 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:07.839 who he is and us for who we are. We're 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:12.960 sinful creatures. He is a sinless creator. He is separated 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:18.160 from us. God is separated from his creation, and in 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:23.160 a vast distance that we can't even begin to comprehend 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:27.240 how much different he is. We are created in his image, 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.640 but that does not mean we are we are beings 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:33.599 like him. We are not like him. God is set apart, 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.760 he is wholly, He is different from all of his creation. 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.160 This is called in systematic theology. It's it's they use 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:46.520 the term creator creation distinction or creation creator distinction. That's 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:50.280 just the idea that that we're not like him, and 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.799 and to ponder on that, to meditate on the distance 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:59.200 between us and God is mind boggling and humbling, right 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.000 that that's why it humbles us. And then that's why 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.720 it also takes us to the gospel that Jesus closed 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:09.800 that gap of separation. He came to us because God 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:14.520 is so far from us indifference and who he is 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.600 and his being in our being that Jesus, knowing we 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.440 could not come to God, came to us God the Father, 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.920 since God the Son, to us to close that gap 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.480 of separation. He came in. He entered humanity as a man, 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:31.880 lived the perfect life that we couldn't live, and then 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:34.280 went to the cross as the ultimate form of humility. 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:38.240 Think about what God did to humble himself in this aspect. God, 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.000 the creator of the universe, comes to earth, and he 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:48.280 becomes a lowly carpenter's son and a lowly little nothing 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:54.240 village with a lowly people, and he lives a lowly 0:07:54.280 --> 0:08:00.240 life that's wild. He was born in a cave in 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.120 a manger with animals because there was no room for 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.880 him at the end. If you read the Bible, you 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:13.440 see the value that God gives in humility, humbling ourselves, 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.160 and so much so that he models it by going 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:20.800 to the cross and dying, and that death becomes really 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:27.920 the attack on pride itself becomes that death on the 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:33.120 cross becomes what defeats pride in us in all other sin. 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:40.440 That's the gospel. So to ponder that, to ponder the 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:46.920 vastness of God and the finite the creatures that we are, 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.280 that is a huge way to humble ourselves. Look at 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:54.720 it this way. God needs nothing. God doesn't need us 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:59.520 at all. He exists only because He exists, and he 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.840 exists outside of any kind of need or growth or 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.560 desire or want or longing or craving anything. It's all 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:10.840 alone in that, and we are totally dependent upon him. 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:13.960 If God doesn't exist, I don't exist. If I don't exist, 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:18.000 God still exists. Right. A good way to think about 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.800 this is when we go to sleep, and we are 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.480 totally dependent upon God. When we're sleeping, we have no 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.680 control over anything. When we're sleeping, we're unconscious to the world, 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:31.640 and yet our body, as God sustains it, as sustains us, 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:35.880 just keeps operating or it doesn't. It all depends on Him, 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.000 not us. We can't control our own sleep. That's a 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:43.839 humbling thought. So that's one way and probably the first 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.560 way we should always start. Besides, you know, going to 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.800 the Bible, learning more about who God is, concentrating on 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.280 spiritual disciplines, making sure we eradicate pride from our lives. 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:58.480 And that's that's why I don't want to use that 0:09:58.520 --> 0:09:59.960 word around my kids. I don't want to tell my 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.959 kids I'm proud of you and said I want to. 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:06.280 I want to be careful with that word. And I 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.679 think Clay's right that that could be semantics, and I 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:13.080 agree with you. Aren't you just trading out one word 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.080 for another? Yes? But I'm But I'm also with my 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.319 mind trying to take captive every thought and saying I 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.280 don't even want that word in my mind so that 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.240 it doesn't it doesn't find its way back into my life. 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:26.600 And I don't want to model that for my kids 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:28.560 and use that word and say, well, it's okay to 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:30.360 say it here. It's just not okay to feel it. 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:34.080 You're on your own. And so I try to use 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.600 the language that the Bible will use. God says, not 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:39.559 that I'm God, but I'm trying to use I try 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:42.199 to emulate that language. I try to be like that, 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.240 which is what we're called the dude as Christians. And 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.640 so God of His Son of Jesus, he says, this 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.920 is my son whom I'm well pleased. It doesn't say 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.000 this is my son whom I'm proud of. So we 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.400 should we should mark that and go, Okay, there's something 0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:59.840 to that. I don't know exactly what it is, and 0:10:59.880 --> 0:11:02.440 I I agree with all what Clay is saying, but 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.080 I think as we dig deeper, there's something sinister in there. 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.640 I think it is even standing at the ball game 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.960 and the Fighter Jets fly over and you stand taller 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:15.680 in your shoulders back and you say I'm proud of 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.839 my country, and I agree with you, Clay, I think 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:22.280 there's something sinister deep down in there. I think there's 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:24.880 something sinister even about telling your kids you're proud of them. 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.079 It's not I'm not saying don't encourage your kids. I'm 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.400 not saying don't tell them. Hey, I'm so pleased with you. 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.960 I'm so happy with what you've done. You work so hard, 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.320 and I'm so pleased with the hard work that it's 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:41.240 paying off. I love to see that in you. That's 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.920 okay to do, that's great. I'm just saying, let's avoid 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.160 that word i'm proud of you, because there's something sinister 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.800 in that. And think, think with me for a second. 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.920 I wouldn't say I wouldn't see the Olympics and see 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:59.400 China do something and think I'm proud of China. I'm not. 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:04.360 I wouldn't be proud of China. I could say I'm impressed, Wow, 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:08.520 I'm super impressed with what China did. In the same way, 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:13.160 I wouldn't see a kid in the Middle East or 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.400 Asia or Africa someplace far from here. I wouldn't see 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.720 a kid and go I'm really proud of that kid. 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.920 He did something on TV or on the news and 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.320 it was, you know, respectable, and I wouldn't say I'm 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:29.200 proud of that kid. Why Why would I not say it? 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.640 Because I'm only proud of things that are connected to me, 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.880 and so deep down, somewhere, deep down, even when I'm 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.000 at the ballgame and the Jets are flying over, I'm saying, 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.520 I'm proud of my country. I'm proud of the men 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.520 that fought to preserve the freedom that we have. I'm 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.080 proud of it. Why am I proud of it? Why 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.800 would I use that word? Because deep down that word 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:54.199 pride is because it benefits me. At the end of 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.319 the day, when I'm looking out at the rest of 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.040 the world, I say, I'm proud of this. I'm proud 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.760 of my country because that's where I'm from and it 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.160 makes me look good. And we don't admit that. But 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.720 I think if we go down to the very root 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:09.720 of that word and what it means and what the 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.679 Bible says that it is, I believe we find in 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:16.679 ourselves that it is just about ourselves. We say the 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.040 same thing about our kids that we say, I'm proud 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.840 of you, son, and what we mean by that At 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.440 the core of it, without even thinking about it, we mean, 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.600 you make me look good because you are my son. 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.920 You make my family name worthwhile, because you just did 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:38.000 something that made me look good to the outside world, 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.480 to everyone looking in. I wouldn't say that to the 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.000 kid down the street. I wouldn't see a kid who 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.200 hit a baseball and go up and go, I'm proud 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:51.280 of you. Unless it was my community that he was 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:54.360 representing and we were going against another community, or it 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.440 was my state going against the rest of the state, 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.280 or it was in my country going against another country. 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.400 Then I would say, I'm proud of you because you 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.960 benefit me, you make me look better. I'm from here, 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.040 i was born here, and you just made me look 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.000 a little bit better to other people watching. That's why 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.600 I'm proud of you. We don't say that, but I 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.680 think deep down in the core of it, it's rotten. 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:23.240 So it's so hard to be on a podcast and 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:27.400 to talk about humbling myself because in the very nature 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.400 of being on a podcast, it's very difficult to not 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.800 try to exalt myself and look, how look, how humble 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.400 I am. Hey, let me tell you all how good 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:43.560 I am it'd being at showing humility. Look how good 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.720 I am at displaying humility. It's awful, right, It's rotten 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.240 to the core. It's hard to even talk about. So 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:55.080 because of all these reasons, Clay, I choose to not 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:59.000 even bring that word into my life, to not model 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:00.840 it in front of my children. And I think it's 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.720 a good conversation starter. Why does Dad say silly things 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.760 like I'm so well pleased with you? Oh, you don't know? 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.440 Because he believes the language of the Bible is so 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:14.840 fierce against pride that he will do anything to remove that, 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:20.120 even from his own language. To us, it's a disease 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:24.240 and he doesn't want to spread it any further. I 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:29.720 think that's there's nuance to all these questions. But I 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.120 think that's where I am right now. Next question comes 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:38.600 from Pamela says, Hey Granger recently started loving Christian music, 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:43.080 many artists and many genres. I find such peace when listening. 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.320 I heard you say in your podcast several months ago 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.120 that there was a side to it that you could 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.840 speak to at some point, or something to that effect. 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.920 Could you please dive deeper into this? For me, music 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.600 has always been important to me. But obviously following and 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.240 maintaining my relationship with Jesus is my main focus. Thanks 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:02.000 for all you do in christ Pamela, Hey Pamela, thank 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.360 you great question. There's there's no deep secrets I have 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:09.120 about Christian music. I could just tell you that Christian music, 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:13.440 just like any other genre, country music, rap music, rock music, 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.800 popped me all of it. If it's a business and 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.200 it's selling big numbers, then it has a team built 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.560 around it that really are all about that those numbers. 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.240 There is no team in any kind of music business 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.960 if they are promoting big business, big big numbers, and 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.600 as far as like the artist is singing in arenas 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:42.960 and touring, there is no group that is free of this. 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:46.360 And I think it's probably a good example to go 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:50.880 back to Luke fourteen eleven. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:53.560 Whoever humbles himself will be exalted. Jesus said that, and 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:55.680 I think it was serious. I think we should take 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:59.760 them seriously about this. I think let me get back 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.440 to that, because that that's a key that's a key 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.080 piece for me. You know, Parker told me one time, 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:10.560 because I talked I talk often about especially with closed doors. 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:16.160 I talked often about why I left music, and Parker says, hey, 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.320 you should say that more often, because I don't think 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:23.439 people quite know. I think I think they think you 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.000 left music because it was taken up too much time, 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.680 or you just your heart wasn't in it anymore, or 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.680 you were you you wanted to be with your family more, 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.560 or you just didn't love it like you used to. 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.239 You know, all these things, And the real reason was 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.720 it was a sin for me because I was exalting myself. 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.160 And I don't think there's any other way around it. 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.440 I don't, and I would, I would speak pretty firmly 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:54.600 about this that I don't think you could be in 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:57.520 an arena and there are a Christian artists that do 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:04.120 this on a regular basis, And perhaps I'll get I'll 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:11.200 get bolder and bolder in my discussions about this because 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.400 I don't think anyone can avoid it. And I used 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.760 to use language like this is just me. I'm just 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:23.000 speaking for myself. But it's nearly impossible for anyone to 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:27.920 be in a thirty thousand seat arena full. They're on 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:30.800 a stage and they're singing about Jesus and everyone's singing 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:33.920 along with them. And it's very difficult for that person 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:38.240 not to start thinking highly of themselves in that way, 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:43.399 and there is corruption that follows. Hate's really connected to 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:48.200 the question we just had about pride. I would choose, 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.680 as a Christian to eradicate every chance that I might 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:56.200 have to exalt myself and instead replace that with a 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:03.800 chance to humiliate myself. Really, and it's not that, it's 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.000 not that just at the last few years, I was 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.199 really exalting myself. I was always doing that because you 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.080 have to. It's a business. If you want to grow, 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:14.320 if you want to succeed in the music business, your 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.639 numbers need to grow. If you want to put fuel 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.479 and the buses and the truck and pay all the 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.080 salaries of all the crew. If you want to grow, 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:26.199 your numbers have to keep growing, and if they're not, 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.520 you're failing. And so in order to grow, you need 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.720 to exalt yourself. You can't get away with not exalting yourself. 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.960 You can't say this is just not about me. And 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.320 then you're out in the middle of an arena, on 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:40.119 the in the middle of a stage with all the 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:44.520 lights literally all about you, and the microphone all about you, 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.520 and everyone that bought a ticket. It's literally the ticket 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.320 is all about you, the billboard is all about you, 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:53.120 the advertising for the show, it's all about you. If 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:56.879 it wasn't all about you, then they wouldn't come. You 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:01.760 wouldn't say, Hey, there's a random, contemp very Christian concert 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:03.840 down at the arena. You want to come, And people 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:06.760 aren't lining up for that. They're lining up for the individual. 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:09.359 It has to be all about the individual, and you 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.280 have to praise them, and you have to literally worship them, 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:16.280 and you have to go otherwise they're failing. So this 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.200 was always happening with me since the beginning of music business. 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:21.800 I was always doing this, and it wasn't until I 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:25.200 was a Christian, a reborn Christian, not a cultural Christian 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.960 that I said I was forever, but until I was 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:31.399 a reborn Christian it started to feel disgusting to me. 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:36.560 And I made it for several years in it before 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.680 it was just too much to bear. I am exalting myself. 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:43.119 I am needing people to praise me, I am needing 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.679 people to worship me. I wouldn't use that kind of 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:49.120 language because that sounds weird, it sounds idolistic, but it is. 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.960 It is people aren't made to be worshiped. They are not. 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.560 They since the beginning of time, look back in history, 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:02.000 anyone that was worshiped or praise greatly ended up being 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:06.320 a really either really weird, really isolated. Are they committed 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.960 suicide or they died because they ate too many peanut 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.800 butter jelly sandwiches in the middle of the night. That's 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:17.040 just the way it is. No one ends up okay, 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:22.160 No super megastar ends up in the end. Okay, they're 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:25.280 a happy person. Everything's normal about their lives. It's not 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:27.600 ever like that. Not ever. You can't give me a 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:30.879 single example when someone was a megastar, they had mega 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:34.719 influence and you looked at them as an actual normal 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:38.920 human being. It starts affecting you. It's that disease. It's 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:43.199 that disease of pride. It starts starts carving away at 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:47.119 the very essence of what makes you human. Humans are 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.280 not made to be worshiped in any way. And this 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.680 is not a knock on Christian music. It's not country music, 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:58.959 it's not rock music. It's the actual idea that a 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:01.520 man or a woman could be at the center of 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:07.640 all that attention and still be okay. There is extreme 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:11.840 corruption in the Christian music industry. I've seen it. But 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:14.680 that's not a knock again on that industry. It's all 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:17.760 of it. It's all of it. Okay. So Pamela, what 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:22.359 does that mean for you? Because if you listen to 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:26.760 a Christian song and you feel closer to Jesus, I 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:29.760 think that's great, and I think that's it's a great 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:31.800 thing to do. It's a great that's a great thing 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:34.800 to listen to as opposed to all the other stuff 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:36.679 you could be all this stuff you could be filling 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:40.480 your mind with. I think it's great to listen to that. 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:44.000 But there's a nuance because then I say, or are 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:46.439 we doing this on Sunday morning? Because if it's Sunday morning, 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:49.840 I want to know that we're singing songs about that, 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:54.480 we're mixing in songs with who God is, and we're 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:59.639 staying away from the boyfriend Jesus songs Chris and I 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:05.960 Chris Lee, We're we're speaking at a men's group, and 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:08.520 I've spoken many of them this year, so you guys 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:10.840 wouldn't be able to identify the one which one I'm 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:15.359 calling out. But sometimes the songs are so horrible because 0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:18.359 they are contemporary Christian songs that we're singing at a 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:22.440 men's gathering, and it's it's like we're at a pop 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:26.920 concert and the songs. I told Chris, I said, if 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:29.080 you can, his wife's name is Alison. I said, if 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.679 you could replace Jesus or God in the song for 0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:36.600 the name Alison, if you could easily replace it. And 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:38.479 every song is like that, then it's a boy This 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:42.560 is a boyfriend thing. This is Jesus the boyfriend. Oh, 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:45.439 you do so much for me. You are you are 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:49.120 all that I need. When I'm lonely, I go to you, 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:53.359 and you are you feel everything in me. You know, 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:57.200 this is Jesus the boyfriend, but we're not learning anything 0:23:57.200 --> 0:23:59.280 about who he is. And so that's why I caution 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.840 against that on Sunday morning, because it's great for you 0:24:02.880 --> 0:24:04.280