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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not supported by being a player. Instead,

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Speaker 1: it's supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon.

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Speaker 1: Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more

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Speaker 1: and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't understand you never know

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Speaker 1: stories of things we simply don't know the answer too.

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Speaker 1: Hi there, Welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host Joe, joined as always by Devin and Steve. Alright,

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Speaker 1: so we're gonna talk about a really fun mystery this week. Um,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan

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Speaker 1: and what happened to them possibly maybe there. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you've heard about Amelia, but if just in

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Speaker 1: case you haven't, I'll just give you a brief rundown.

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Speaker 1: She was an early female pioneer of aviation, and and

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Speaker 1: she flew across the Atlantic for example, I think the

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Speaker 1: first woman to fly across the Atlantic. And she was

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Speaker 1: on I once you disappeared, she was on a round

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Speaker 1: the world flight. She would have been the first woman. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I like, you just sound very unimpressed, Like I guess

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Speaker 1: she was. I don't know if she was important female

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Speaker 1: figure history. Probably what she was trying to do is

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Speaker 1: that we're trying to give just a real brief because

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Speaker 1: there's so much to the story. I think it's probably

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Speaker 1: on your kid. Yeah, yeah, I mean if you go

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Speaker 1: to a wiki page, you can read all about her life,

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Speaker 1: so by all means to do that if you want to.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh. And also Fred and

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Speaker 1: Inden was her navigator. He was considered one of the

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Speaker 1: best navigators around. And uh. He was also a licensed

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Speaker 1: ship captain, had a ton of experience with marine and

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Speaker 1: then flight navigation. Excuse me, what's that is? Maybe? Oh

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Speaker 1: that's true. You might still be alive. Yeah, okay, sorry

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Speaker 1: about that. Uh. And yeah, and the alien Fred, if

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Speaker 1: you're out there listening, drop us a postcard. Souse, I know. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: On July nineteen thirty seven, Heat and Amelia were heading

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Speaker 1: out over the Pacific Ocean on their third to the

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Speaker 1: last leg of their round the World trip. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: they're going to try to find a tiny little piece

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Speaker 1: of land called Howland Island. Um, you can find it

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Speaker 1: on Google if you want. Well, I mean, probably go

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Speaker 1: any further. I want to acknowledge that this was suggested

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Speaker 1: by a couple of people, Ash and also Jeremy Right,

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Speaker 1: so thanks guys. A long time ago, ye, quite a while. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: one of our first suggestions, I think. Yeah, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: the round world. The Round the World trip began in Oakland, California,

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Speaker 1: went eastward in ninety seven. People had already flown around

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Speaker 1: the world, so Amelia decided to set herself apart by

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Speaker 1: following an extra long twenty thousand mile equatorial route and

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Speaker 1: also being female and also that too. Yeah. Yeah. She

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Speaker 1: got financing for Purdy University and Lockeed Aircraft built her

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Speaker 1: a custom lock heat Electric ten airplane, which yatom mean.

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Speaker 1: But on the other hand, like, don't you want the

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Speaker 1: model that's been tested? Yeah, you never, you never use

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Speaker 1: first use. I'm not sure how long the lock the

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Speaker 1: elector had been around at that time. Well, but even

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Speaker 1: if you just add an extra fuel tank, you want

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Speaker 1: one that's been around a couple of times. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: my rule at least. Yeah, so, yeah, the extra big

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Speaker 1: fuel tank was one thing. But but what strikes me

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Speaker 1: as strange about this is that they didn't incorporate a

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Speaker 1: navigation dome. What's a navigation dome? Because in the old days,

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Speaker 1: before they had all this fancy stuff, that we had

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Speaker 1: these days. You had to use a sextant and like

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Speaker 1: like when you're flying at night, actually get a fix

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Speaker 1: on a star skylight on the top of the plane.

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Speaker 1: Basically bubbles like I have a sperit glass bubble that

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Speaker 1: they built into the tops of a lot of planes

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Speaker 1: back in those days. And why they didn't build one

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Speaker 1: into this plane, I don't know, but it would have

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Speaker 1: been a good idea for fun. I think because they

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Speaker 1: were they were relying on the technology they had of

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Speaker 1: the new radios and stuff like that they thought. I

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Speaker 1: don't think they felt like they needed first Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it seems like they were going to use radio direction

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Speaker 1: finding technology in this particular little thing of Amelia's, but

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Speaker 1: it didn't really work out too well. Was there is

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Speaker 1: there some consideration for aerodynamics as well? Like were they

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Speaker 1: trying to make the plane more aerodynamic? It's conceivable, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, to extend the fuel life. Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's a good question. Yeah, the first try this

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Speaker 1: this actually was her second try at around the world thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she tried one time before and she flew from Oakland

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Speaker 1: to Honolulu successfully and yeah, so that means that she

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Speaker 1: was flying east to West instead of what she ended

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Speaker 1: up doing in the end, which was flying yeah, exhausting east. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in halleluluh. She was taking off her second leg and

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Speaker 1: she had an unfortunate incident. There's still a little controversial.

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Speaker 1: She ground loops essentially, which meant that on takeoff, one

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Speaker 1: wingtip caught the ground and she just sort of spun

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Speaker 1: around and did a huge amount of damage to her plane.

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Speaker 1: Did it? Did it spin around? Always got the impression

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Speaker 1: that the ground loop is where one hits and then

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Speaker 1: you know, it's the equal and opposite reaction. It pushes

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Speaker 1: it the other way, and so they waggle back and forth,

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Speaker 1: because you've seen plane. I've seen planes doing that when

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Speaker 1: they're taking off and they'll they kind of one tip

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Speaker 1: then the other wing tip back and forth on their

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Speaker 1: central accesses. No, it's actually it's defined as a rapid

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Speaker 1: rotation of a plane and in the horizontal plane. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: So my impression is it's like one wing gets caught

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Speaker 1: basically pivots. Yeah, okay, okay, that's then that's where I

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Speaker 1: misunderstood it. Yeah. Anyway, the plane was severely damaged. It

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Speaker 1: had to be shoot back to California to be fixed

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Speaker 1: and Uh, and it's controversial. I mean, I mean a

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Speaker 1: lot of damage. Yeah, Amelia claimed that her right tire

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Speaker 1: blue out, which may or may not be true, and

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Speaker 1: other people who blame pilot error. So there, she's controversial,

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Speaker 1: and it might there might be a certain amount of

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Speaker 1: bias with some of these people who said that she

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Speaker 1: was not so hot of a pilot after all. But

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of problems with the stories that people

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Speaker 1: are holding back because either they think she because she

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Speaker 1: was a woman, she wasn't a good pilot, or because

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Speaker 1: she was a one woman pilot, they don't want to

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Speaker 1: point out any of her flaws and her ability. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a weird it's a weird catch twenty two. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it kind of is. Oh. And also there was some

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Speaker 1: mention in the story at the end of nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: seven that supposedly Fred Noonan told his wife he had

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Speaker 1: just recently remarried, told her about the blowout, if it

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Speaker 1: was a blowout, that he didn't think it was an accident,

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Speaker 1: he thought it was sabotage. Yeah, but I'll talk about

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Speaker 1: I'll talk a little bit more about this article. It

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Speaker 1: was in True magazine. I think that's probably what should

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Speaker 1: not be called it's a pretty liberal article. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: anyway back to the second one, back to our trip.

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Speaker 1: The second of her second attempt, second try, they leave

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Speaker 1: Local for Miami, and then at Miami they made the

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Speaker 1: faithful decision to remove their trailing antenna, which really might

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Speaker 1: have saved their bacon later, Joe, what's the trailing in?

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Speaker 1: I'll just do that for this entire episode. Yeah, I was.

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Speaker 1: I was going to explain that a trailing antenna is

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Speaker 1: something that you in those days at least, antenna's were

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Speaker 1: less sophisticated, so generally speaking, and I'm not an expert

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Speaker 1: on radios at all, but my understanding of this is

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Speaker 1: that in order to broadcast on the five Killer Hurts band,

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Speaker 1: which is a marine distress band, I think you have

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Speaker 1: to have it. You have to have an antenna of

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Speaker 1: a certain length, and would be too much a longer

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Speaker 1: antenna than you can actually accommodate inside or mounted on

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Speaker 1: the fuselage of it. So it's gotta be longer. So

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Speaker 1: what you do is it's a it's a long and

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Speaker 1: wire antenna with a lead weight on the end, and

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Speaker 1: then you toss it out now you know, you deploy

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Speaker 1: it out the window exactly fuselage on the back and

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Speaker 1: then it's got to the bridge. Yeah. Yeah, and so

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Speaker 1: you after you take off, you deploy it, and then

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Speaker 1: before you land you better remember to reel it back in.

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Speaker 1: Why what would be the reason that one would disconnect that.

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Speaker 1: It seems like it's a innocuous thing. Yeah, apparently U

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Speaker 1: I guess they felt it was just too much of

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Speaker 1: a nuisance to have to reel it in every time

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Speaker 1: you land the plane. So why not just not not

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Speaker 1: deploy it? Yeah that question. Yeah, it doesn't seem like

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Speaker 1: it's a tremendously heavy thing. Yeah, it's not like weighing

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Speaker 1: them down a hole. Probably got it's probably a couple

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Speaker 1: of pounds total in weight, So yeah, just don't eat

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Speaker 1: a couple of meals maybe and you're well, it's probably

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Speaker 1: more than a couple of pounds for the electric winch

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Speaker 1: and everything else. But you know, still it wasn't that much.

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Speaker 1: And uh, it's a little explicable. You know for me,

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Speaker 1: I would want to have everything. Yeah, I just want

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Speaker 1: to have that extra radio, you know, just in case

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Speaker 1: when you where the radios goes out. And you know,

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Speaker 1: part of the big part of the problem with this

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Speaker 1: whole thing, for Amelia and Fred is that the radio

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Speaker 1: wasn't quite working right and that kind of hosed them

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Speaker 1: in the end. Yeah, and uh, just a brief mention here.

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Speaker 1: They were talking before they hired brought Fred onto the project.

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Speaker 1: They were talking to another navigator whose name was Bradford Washburn,

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Speaker 1: and they asked him. That was Amelia and her husband

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Speaker 1: were asking him, well, we we want to go from

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Speaker 1: New Guinea to Howland Island. It's going to be really

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Speaker 1: tough to find. What what do you think we need

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Speaker 1: to do? And he said, you have to have a

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Speaker 1: trailing antenna and and then for communications, and you have

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Speaker 1: to have a radio operator on the island. Amelia didn't

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Speaker 1: want to go with the trailing antenna and so he

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Speaker 1: backed out. Smart dude. Yeah for him, I'm sure he

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Speaker 1: was patting himself on the back. I mean, he probably

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Speaker 1: wasn't happy about it, but you know, still the so

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Speaker 1: the jump from le from La Papua, New Guinea, it's

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Speaker 1: a town on the east east coast of Papua New Guinea.

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Speaker 1: As I said, the third to last leg, it was

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Speaker 1: expected to take at least eighteen twenty hours and the

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Speaker 1: Elector was capable of flying twenty four hours under a

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Speaker 1: deal conditions if the tanks were full, and I've heard

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Speaker 1: varying accounts of this. Most say that the tanks were

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Speaker 1: full when they left Lay, but I've also seen a

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Speaker 1: few other accounts that stay that, No, she only had

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Speaker 1: about nine fifty gallons of gas. Well, how much was

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Speaker 1: the tank? Sorry, thank I've heard varying spent that. Yeah, eleven,

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Speaker 1: we're there, Yeah, yeah, But apparently they there was a

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Speaker 1: grass airstrip at Lai and it was it was only

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Speaker 1: three thousand feet long, and apparently, according to some authorities

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Speaker 1: that have heard, she couldn't take off with much more

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Speaker 1: weight than she had, and they actually offloaded a bunch

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Speaker 1: of weight just so they could make up make it

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Speaker 1: up with fuel, so they took some stuff off at Law.

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Speaker 1: The Navy was cooperating with the mission. The Coast Guard

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Speaker 1: cutter Itasca was stationed at Hellan Island, and also the

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Speaker 1: tug the USS Ontario was stationed midway between Lay and Howland,

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Speaker 1: and then the USS Swan was stationed beyond Hollan Island

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Speaker 1: to the east. So the Navy was plane of ships

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Speaker 1: form to be able to communicate with as they got close.

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Speaker 1: When they got there and if they were shot, somebody

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Speaker 1: still talk to them, yeah, or go rescue them if

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Speaker 1: they had a ditch or something like that. Of the navy.

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Speaker 1: That was awfully nice. Yeah. Yeah, it was an overnight flight.

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Speaker 1: It was scheduled to arrive at helln Island early in

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Speaker 1: the morning of July two. So they left July second,

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Speaker 1: they arrived July second. That's international dateline. Oh yeah, right, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so they left at ten am, which is zero

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Speaker 1: Granwich mean time, and so all the times I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be giving from here on in our Granwich mean

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Speaker 1: time because when I don't know if you guys noticed,

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Speaker 1: as when you researched, it was, oh, it's screw. It's

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Speaker 1: really hard because there's half hour time zones over there

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Speaker 1: and they're they're talking local time at La local time

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Speaker 1: at Howland and and then they're mixing it in with

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Speaker 1: Granwich mean time and oh my god, it's confused. So

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Speaker 1: actually this is interesting. My brother is I'm currently in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand working and so they are three hours behind us,

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Speaker 1: but they in tomorrow. Yeah, so it's very interesting trying

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Speaker 1: to have, you know, skype conversation with him because it's

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Speaker 1: like I don't I literally cannot conceptualize of what time

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Speaker 1: it is there for you because it's just it seems

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Speaker 1: like it's in the future. So I you know it

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Speaker 1: is in the future. Well, I kind of had this

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Speaker 1: same thing happening with this, you know, because it was

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Speaker 1: kind of like, I don't know, I can't get a

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Speaker 1: good beat on it. So good on the Greenwich meantime

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Speaker 1: that we're just going to do it all in one

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Speaker 1: keep simple, let's do it. Yeah, Okay, back to Holland Island.

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Speaker 1: So the morning that Amelia and Fred were do in

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Speaker 1: at Holland Island, the Ataska reported weather conditions as clear

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Speaker 1: blue sky to the south and the east, but heavy

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Speaker 1: cloud banks to the north and the west. And the

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Speaker 1: Ataska is the one that was at the island. That

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Speaker 1: was at the island, yeah, and so yeah, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: so not the ideal weather conditions for finding a tiny

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Speaker 1: island in the middle of nowhere. And so the plane

242
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Speaker 1: was flying towards the cloud banks, that's flying through them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were to the west of Hallan Island. There were

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Speaker 1: a very decent number of radio messages, but I'm not

245
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Speaker 1: going to list them all between there were a lot,

246
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Speaker 1: but that when they were getting close to Holland at

247
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,720
Speaker 1: seventy seven g m t Amelia radio were two hundred

248
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Speaker 1: miles out. Please take a bearing on her signal, And

249
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Speaker 1: she started whistling into the microphone and that so that

250
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,239
Speaker 1: it would be a tone for him to to track, right, Yeah,

251
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Speaker 1: just just a steady noise for the track. And the

252
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Speaker 1: thing about it is is they replied to her, but

253
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Speaker 1: they never got an acknowledgement of the message. And then

254
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Speaker 1: in fact, they never got acknowledgments of any of their

255
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Speaker 1: messages to her over the radio. Shouldn't indicates to me

256
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Speaker 1: her receiver was not working. That's it's widely believed that

257
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Speaker 1: there was receiver antend had gotten damaged on takeoff. So

258
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Speaker 1: about this time the Ataska fired up its oil burners

259
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Speaker 1: and generated a big column of black smoke. Oh that's

260
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,720
Speaker 1: a good idea. Yeah, yeah, the commander of the ship

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Speaker 1: said later that should have been visible for forty plus

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Speaker 1: miles to the south and east. Uh. And if if

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Speaker 1: Amelia was flying at one thousand feet, which she said

264
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Speaker 1: she was, well, but I've also heard that if she

265
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Speaker 1: was coming from slightly you know, I think it was

266
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Speaker 1: a slightly different direction, it could have very easily blended

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Speaker 1: in with the clouds depending on where she was. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's funny. I looked up this this ship and I

269
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Speaker 1: was like, it's got guns. Why the hell weren't they

270
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Speaker 1: just fired off shots to make a bunch of noises.

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Speaker 1: She can home in on that that's not a bad idea.

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Speaker 1: Didn't have guns at that time, Oh it didn't. Didn't

273
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Speaker 1: got fitted for guns for or two is when I

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Speaker 1: figured out they will, like what happens when it's the

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Speaker 1: errant shot and you shoot the plane rain? You shoot blank?

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Speaker 1: You don't? Yeah, I'm not sure miles away and with

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Speaker 1: two really loud aircraft engines, you know, right next to

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Speaker 1: your true Yeah. So I actually have one quick question

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Speaker 1: before we move on from this. It was documented that

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Speaker 1: Amelia did have like the kind of training right that

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Speaker 1: she would know you have to respond when people radio you, right,

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Speaker 1: And there was documented that she had done that in

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Speaker 1: the past. Rights. I just wanted to make sure. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's so much talk about her maybe not

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Speaker 1: being a great pilot and blah blah blah. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I would think that everybody would know if somebody radio's you,

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Speaker 1: you at least acknowledge that you got it. But it

288
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Speaker 1: occurs to me that maybe she just didn't know that,

289
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Speaker 1: but I was, so I just wanted to make sure. Yeah, well,

290
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,080
Speaker 1: she was accused of not following correct procedures radio procedures

291
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Speaker 1: later on, but I just wanted to make sure, so

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Speaker 1: if we're going forward with this that it's that it

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Speaker 1: does seem reasonable that she wasn't actually receiving the calls,

294
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Speaker 1: not that she was just choosing to not respond. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that I know of is in reading,

296
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,960
Speaker 1: is because this radio system was different than what she

297
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,800
Speaker 1: was used to and she want to count it. I

298
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Speaker 1: read it was like she got like a half hour

299
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Speaker 1: of training on it. At it's lucky. Is that who

300
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,200
Speaker 1: made us? Yeah? They when she was picking up, they

301
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,880
Speaker 1: gave her a half hour walk through how the radio worked.

302
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Speaker 1: Wasn't right. She may not have been known how to

303
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,440
Speaker 1: identify that or correct for it. Yeah, it was like

304
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,360
Speaker 1: her radio direction finder, I think, is the one that

305
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,480
Speaker 1: she got just a really quick overview on and that

306
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 1: was it. Yeah. Well, so when I guess it's also

307
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,280
Speaker 1: possible she wasn't totally clear on how it worked and

308
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,160
Speaker 1: she made a thought she was hitting the button the

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Speaker 1: right way, or was holding her head the right way,

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Speaker 1: and she wasn't, and nobody's saying to her like, hey,

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Speaker 1: did you hear what we were saying? Her headphones were

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00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,000
Speaker 1: unplugged the whole time, and she had no idea the

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00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:24,200
Speaker 1: mixer was off. Yeah, yeah, Okay, so all right, sorry,

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Speaker 1: let's back to back to what the commander said. He

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00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,840
Speaker 1: said that he was it was doubtful that the smoke

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00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:31,760
Speaker 1: would have been visible for more than twenty miles to

317
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Speaker 1: the north and west, which is where she was coming from. Okay,

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Speaker 1: back to the messages. GMT. She radio said they were

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00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,600
Speaker 1: a hundred miles out and low on gas. Uh and

320
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Speaker 1: along about this time, her voice was starting to get

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Speaker 1: a little, a little bit of an edge in it,

322
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:51,400
Speaker 1: I hear, I can imagine. Yeah, yeah, but this is

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Speaker 1: this is the part that I find a little inexplicable,

324
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 1: is why it was. You know, she must not have

325
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Speaker 1: been getting any messages from the Ataska or anybody else.

326
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,480
Speaker 1: So at that point, don't you conclude that your receiver

327
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,040
Speaker 1: was busted and turn around and go back to light.

328
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,080
Speaker 1: Isn't that what not? If you're running low on she's

329
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,560
Speaker 1: been how far out of well no, no, no, I'm

330
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 1: not saying this way. She must have known earlier in

331
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Speaker 1: the flight, well, you know, well before the halfway point

332
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,399
Speaker 1: and her receiver wasn't working. How could you not deduce

333
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,920
Speaker 1: the receiver? Do we know? Was there a storm, any

334
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,399
Speaker 1: kind of interference that could have knocked him out on midflight,

335
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,359
Speaker 1: So they wouldn't have known that they weren't receiving. So

336
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,560
Speaker 1: sadly they didn't find out that they weren't receiving until

337
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,480
Speaker 1: not possible, until they suddenly weren't receiving from the ship

338
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 1: and they were like, well, we are too far now

339
00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,320
Speaker 1: to turn around, so we're just going to have to

340
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,040
Speaker 1: go pointing in return. Yeah. Yeah, it could have been.

341
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:42,680
Speaker 1: It could have been maybe they got struck by lightning

342
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:44,520
Speaker 1: or something like that, or even I mean, I don't know,

343
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,920
Speaker 1: like maybe a duck hit it or something, you know, yeah,

344
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,679
Speaker 1: something like that, you know, But I mean that is

345
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,439
Speaker 1: that is that a reasonable thing to sit with. The

346
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 1: prevailing theory is that it was damaged on takeoff and

347
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,320
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have been working the entire flight, so they

348
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 1: should have figured something out, like when they were communicating

349
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,800
Speaker 1: with the tower and not hearing the tower in Papua

350
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,840
Speaker 1: New Guinea responding to them again. Yeah, I mean so yeah,

351
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,240
Speaker 1: but anyway, for whatever reason, they just they turned on.

352
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,119
Speaker 1: I think that maybe they figured that they could they

353
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,120
Speaker 1: be able to find this place, you know, and certainly

354
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,680
Speaker 1: if the weather had been better, you know, weather didn't

355
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,360
Speaker 1: help at all. They had a head wind for one thing.

356
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 1: Uh So back to the messages here, they got their

357
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,359
Speaker 1: last message message on the Ataska am T. She said

358
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,480
Speaker 1: that they were on on a line I think it

359
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,119
Speaker 1: was line of position slash three thirty seven. Can you

360
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 1: explain what that means? I'm still not positive that I understand. Yeah,

361
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,800
Speaker 1: I definitely don't understand. What is what are those numbers?

362
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 1: So lattitude and longitude? No, no, no, that's uh you

363
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,399
Speaker 1: know you know that you know that's in a in

364
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 1: a circulars three D and sixty degrees right, so yeah,

365
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,200
Speaker 1: all right, exactly, And so zero on that circle is

366
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,600
Speaker 1: is north? How do an eighty greeze is south? So

367
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,400
Speaker 1: one degrees is like south southeast? Okay, okay, So I've

368
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,639
Speaker 1: never done bearings like That's why I was. I was

369
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:15,160
Speaker 1: a little confused. So there, so they're south southeast what yeah?

370
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 1: So south is south southeast? Is between south and southeast

371
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 1: right now, I know, But it's and then they can't

372
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 1: give their position. Three seven is just the opposite like

373
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,480
Speaker 1: north northwest. Oh, so she was either going south southe

374
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,159
Speaker 1: so that's the thing. She didn't say what direction on

375
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,199
Speaker 1: that line that they were going. Oh they were all,

376
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 1: oh I see, okay, yeah, okay, yeah, And so it's

377
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,680
Speaker 1: it's so it's believed that what what fred Knud had

378
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,359
Speaker 1: done was what he was going to do is get

379
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,119
Speaker 1: them out there, take a bearing off off the sun,

380
00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,919
Speaker 1: or however we could get a bearing presumable with the

381
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 1: sun and determine their longitude. So if if they're at

382
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,919
Speaker 1: the correct longitude for the island, for Allen Island, then

383
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 1: they make they make a right turn and head down

384
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 1: that line to hit the island. But you know, so

385
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,320
Speaker 1: that's that's theoretically what he was doing. I see, okay, yeah,

386
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,880
Speaker 1: so I assumed that they were running south on that line,

387
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 1: but we actually don't know. She didn't say. And actually,

388
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 1: and they may frankly, they may not have really known either, right, No,

389
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: they would have known, but they wouldn't know which direction

390
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 1: they were going. But but you know, we just had

391
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 1: no way of knowing if they were going north on

392
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 1: that line. Of course, they would have known. I'm sorry,

393
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what I'm thinking. I'm

394
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 1: I'm being a dummy. Okay. So, and that was the

395
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:34,879
Speaker 1: correct longitude for the island latitude longitude. It appears not

396
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,679
Speaker 1: because they never showed up. So she also said at

397
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 1: the end of that message said she was switched switching

398
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 1: to sixty different frequency. The Taska radio back telling her

399
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,439
Speaker 1: not to change her frequency, but apparently she did anyway,

400
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,160
Speaker 1: because that's the last they ever heard of her. Did

401
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,159
Speaker 1: she did they switch frequencies. I don't know why they

402
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,400
Speaker 1: couldn't just switch over to sixty two ten. Really, I'm

403
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 1: not sure have had the radio. They may not have

404
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 1: that might have and part of the problem, I mean,

405
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 1: I guess it was radio is back in those days

406
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 1: were a lot more crude, although very narrow bandwidths. Yeah,

407
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 1: I guess. For me, my initial reaction is always like

408
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 1: she was in a small plane, like they had a

409
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 1: giant naval ship. Really the radio on her plane was

410
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 1: more sophisticated than there's. But again, you're right, you're making

411
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 1: good was not new at that time, but it's you know,

412
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: and so it may have gotten the latest radio technology

413
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 1: ten years prior. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah, So it's

414
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 1: a good point that you guys are bring up, because

415
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 1: it is totally my impulse to be like, what do

416
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 1: you mean her plane was more advanced than a giant battleship.

417
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 1: You're right, I'm not really sure what the issue was there.

418
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: You know, you would think that they would have the

419
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 1: capability of operating on a bunch of different frequencies, including

420
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 1: that one, that it might be that their radio was

421
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 1: busted or I was old certain frequencies are only used

422
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: in certain areas, you know, on land versus sea, stuff

423
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,439
Speaker 1: like that. So I I mean, I'm I'm completely ignorant here,

424
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 1: and yeah, we're gonna get a lot of hate mail

425
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 1: from ham Ham radio operators. Yeah, I know, I know.

426
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: But actually there were three more messages. I mean twenty

427
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: GMT is the one that's always listed as the last one,

428
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 1: but I read that. Actually the radio operator at NARU

429
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,880
Speaker 1: was was back the halfway point on that that island

430
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: on did hear three more messages at and g MT

431
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: within the span of about a half hour. Yeah, and

432
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: what must happened, Well, I don't know what the contents were.

433
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: I've never been able to find that, but he did

434
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 1: send a telegram that was eventually made it to the

435
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 1: Coast Guard about the messages, and he he mentioned the

436
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,439
Speaker 1: last message. He said that the last message sounded just

437
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 1: like the person in the previous messages, but that the

438
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: person was shouting and the sound of the airplane's engines,

439
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 1: which had been present previous messages, was gone. So i'd

440
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 1: probably yeah, a lot of things. So that is that

441
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,880
Speaker 1: is what we know about about Amelia. That's the last

442
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: we heard of her. Um. Then there's a lot of

443
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: theories out there, and they started almost immediately. Of course,

444
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: she was she was a very public figure and she

445
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 1: was doing a very public thing. Yeah you know you

446
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: were calling. I mentioned that article in True Magazine. Yeah, okay, tu, Yeah,

447
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: that's that's one of the first theories that came at us,

448
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: that they were assassinated. Yeah. So that was in the

449
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: December nineteen thirties seven issue of True Magazine. Uh claimed

450
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: that Amelia and Fred were spying for the US government.

451
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: We're in theory section, by the way, Oh yeah, we

452
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:44,239
Speaker 1: are in the theory section. Yeah, yeah, sorry about that. Yeah. Uh.

453
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: This article notes that it was very risky to make

454
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: the hop to Howland Island and it would have made

455
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: more sense to travel around the Pacific room like say

456
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,719
Speaker 1: Japan the Illusian Seattle, if you ignore completely what they

457
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 1: were doing. Yeah, you're right, Yeah, well she wanted to

458
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: do the whole equatorial thing first of all. Yeah. Now,

459
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: but still, you know they did. There's a good point.

460
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: I mean, how trying to find Hollan Island in the

461
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: middle of a vast ocean was kind of risky and

462
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: uh so obviously they were they were suspicious of True

463
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: magazine and why they took this very risky route. Uh

464
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: And the answer they believed was that they had something

465
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: in their possession that they didn't want the Japanese to see. Yeah,

466
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: apparently they've been doing a lot of spy on their

467
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: round the World trip, and they had a lot of

468
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: a lot of top secret info that needed to be

469
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: delivered to the U. S. Government, like in the form

470
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: of like developed pictures. Is that what they're saying? Who knows?

471
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: You know? Uh, yeah, yeah, I guess it has to

472
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: be undeveloped. But that's but that's my argument against this theory,

473
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: because it's like, well, but if it's undeveloped film, then

474
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: they can say, yeah, we've been taking pictures of our

475
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: world record journey. Yeah, why do you have eight rolls

476
00:24:54,400 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 1: of films trip? Okay, a lot of water to go

477
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: to the bathroom and take like twelve selfies. I don't

478
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: know what you want from me. Okay, yea. Why the

479
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: pictures all of like military installations? I don't know. It

480
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 1: all looks like military installations from a thousand feet Yeah,

481
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: that's true. Anyway, somebody, presumably the Japanese government, didn't want

482
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: all that all that good data delivered to the US government,

483
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 1: so they used radio interference to make the direction finding

484
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: gear on the airplane and the task are useless, and

485
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: to mess with the air mess with their audio also,

486
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: and the evidence for this as well, the U S

487
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: Government did participate in an Amelia Earhart's trip well station

488
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: in those three ships and everything. Um that's about it

489
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: for evidence. Um yeah, okay, yeah, we let's just ignore

490
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: the fact that she was friends with the current first

491
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: Lady at that time, you know who she is in

492
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: her connections had nothing to do with her being able

493
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: to arrange all of that. No, no, yeah, well, but

494
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: I mean also it's not it's not my impression, correct

495
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong that these naval ships were usually

496
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: stationed in New York and made a huge transatlantic journey

497
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 1: all the way over to this like a little area

498
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: to be stationed in these areas. They were kind of

499
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: like stationed in that general vicinity. Anyway, it was a

500
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: short jog for them to just go plant themselves a

501
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: hundred miles from where they usually were. I don't know

502
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: if they were stationed in the Philippines or you know,

503
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: I Harbor, right, But it's not that it's not like

504
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: they sailed halfway around the world yet. And you know, again,

505
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: it's like kind of an exciting thing for the people

506
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: who are on the ship, right, all of the Marines,

507
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: navy men, navy men. Sorry maybe I didn't actually say this,

508
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: but actually two of them were Navy ships, but the

509
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: Ataska was a coast guard cutter. So anyways, for the

510
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: men that were stationed on the ships, you know, it's

511
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: something interesting for them. It's helping an American citizen achieve

512
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: a world record. You know, it's the famous American America. Yeah,

513
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: I mean we do stuff like that all the time already,

514
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: still right, totally, so yeah, I mean it's not suspicious.

515
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: So of course, this argument or this article is they

516
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: did make a mention of Fred Noonan saying to his

517
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: wife supposedly that they've been sabotaged in Honolulu when they

518
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: when they ground looped. When did that article come out again?

519
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,719
Speaker 1: December nineteen seven? And is that article the first mention

520
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: of Fred Noonan's concern over Amelia's or over sabotage? Is

521
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 1: that where it came from? Probably that's the first that

522
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: I as first that I know, Yeah, I've never seen it.

523
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: I've never seen it dated prior to that. Now that

524
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 1: I think about it's like, I wonder if we've discovered

525
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: where the source of it is, you wouldn't surprise me. Yeah, yeah,

526
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: now this is uh, this might be the first the

527
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: source for all the spying allegations and everything to you know,

528
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: it could be another another source was there was a

529
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: movie that came out in I think nineteen forty three

530
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: that was kind of loosely based on Yeah, this one

531
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: was and this one she was spying for the U. S.

532
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: Government And that sort of helped to put that whole

533
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: we were they were spying thing into the population. So

534
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: where where are we saying they were spying? I mean

535
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: like where along the equator? That's like very tactical at

536
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: that point. Yeah, exactly. I mean the area that they

537
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: disappeared in, it's there in the in the Pacific. There

538
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 1: were islands that were under Japanese control at that time.

539
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: But that's really the only thing. I mean, it's not

540
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: like they would have gone to let's say, Germany is

541
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 1: the first one that pops into mind. That's way out

542
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: of the way. I mean, nobody major pops up as

543
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: somebody that I would say you would need to be

544
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: spying on, I would just say, like again, as a

545
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: counter to that, not that any of us in this room,

546
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: like actually believe this, but I just really want to

547
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,959
Speaker 1: We're at home, right. Uh. That's a really popular in

548
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: the public eye long way to go about spying on

549
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: tiny little islands that aren't really tactically relevant. Yeah. Yeah,

550
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: I mean they were. But but if you're gonna have

551
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: somebody's spy, why would you be like Amelia Earhart is

552
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: going for the world record of this thing. Everybody know

553
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: this is exactly a story. You ever, this is exactly

554
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: the way that she's going. So if you want to

555
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: shoot her down, you know her course, why would you

556
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: do that? Why would you do that? Why wouldn't you

557
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: just throw somebody in the air and have them go

558
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: for it, throw somebody in the air. Yeah, said that,

559
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: you're right. Yeah, So look, I guess we can say

560
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: that the assassination theory was a fail. Yeah. And then

561
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: another one that's out to this popular. And there's a lot.

562
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: I didn't even even incorporate every single theory. There's just

563
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: where there's so many. It's just it's just they're kind

564
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: of grouped in generalities here. A lot of them are

565
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: very similar to one another two And Joe's not Devin,

566
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: so he didn't do the bullet point way. Yeah, which

567
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: is why it's really easy for me to understand. Continue

568
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: on our next theory. They crashed on Saipan and were

569
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: eventually killed by the Japanese. So that was another island

570
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: that was under Japanese control at that time. And somebody

571
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: has dug up quotes from locals in Saipan who supposedly

572
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: saw two white people, a man and a woman, one

573
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: woman who was a girl, all the times that you

574
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: saw a silver twin engine plane flying low over the island,

575
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: hit some trees and then crash land on the beach,

576
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: and then she got to look at the two people

577
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: from the wreck and they were white, and the woman

578
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: she described as tall and thin with short hair, just

579
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: like Amelia Earhart did either of your Actually this is

580
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,239
Speaker 1: a little off topic, but I found it interesting. It's

581
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: just when you were talking about having short hair. I

582
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: never realized why she had her hair cut in the

583
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: style that she did. Did you did you guys find

584
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: that in the reading. You can't have long hair when

585
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,479
Speaker 1: you're flying an airplane because you can't get it all

586
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: underneath a cap easily, and so then of course it

587
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: would be tangled and would break off anyway over hours

588
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: and hours and hours of flight time. So it was

589
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: a giant pain in the butt, which is why she

590
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: adopted the short hairstyle. It's also kind of a hazard

591
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: if you're like checking engines that are going yeah, yeah,

592
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: oh yeah. This is like, you know, don't have long

593
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: loose clothes on when I'm working. Yeah. Maybe if you

594
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: have to bail out of your plane, it gets tangling

595
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: in your shoot and your shot doesn't deploy her. There's

596
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: a jillion reasons why, but I yeah, because you've never

597
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: had to think about it. I did once. I had

598
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: long hair once. I just mean as a man, as

599
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: a bald man, just as a man once as a

600
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: man had long hair, it was a man. Can we

601
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: continue on, Yeah, okay, leaving my hair. So what's the

602
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: problem with this theory, Well, Sipan is due north of

603
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: lie Yeah, that's a pretty that's a real, real gigantic

604
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: navigational error. Even I wouldn't make that error problem. Yeah. Yeah. Also,

605
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Governor of Saipan said in an interview on this topic,

606
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: said that reporters were coming to the island and offering

607
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: people money to say that they had seen two white people,

608
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: and in ninety seven there were white people living on Saipan.

609
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: Somebody could in good conscience take the money and say, yeah, sure,

610
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: I saw two white people. I saw some whole bunch

611
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: of Yeah, yeah, I gotta get this one of ale

612
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: I would I would totally agree with that. Okay, this uh,

613
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: this one is kind of a variant that actually has

614
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: them wind up in Saipan after all. In fact, several

615
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: of these have been wanting ups in Sapan for miscellanous reasons.

616
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: But this theory is that they took a detail over

617
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: the Marshall Islands to do some spying for the government

618
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: and were shot down by the Japanese. The Japanese were

619
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: occupying the Marshall Islands, and that's to the north of

620
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: where all of our Amelia air heart action is going on.

621
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: Well to the north. The U. S Government had an

622
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: interest in finding out what they were doing in those

623
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: islands because it was suspected that they were fortifying the islands,

624
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: which they weren't supposed to be doing so anyway. So

625
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: Amelia it wasn't listed to fly over the islands and

626
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: spy on them. The Japanese shot them down and supposing

627
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: they survived the crash and eventually executed them on Saipan. Yeah,

628
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: and a magazine called Air Classics a guy named this

629
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: is in April named Roland Rheineck. Yeah, and now revealed

630
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: the fall going this is this is a whole big

631
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: stonewall cover up theory. Here the whole thing. In April

632
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: ninety eight, Paul Monts, who had been a technical adviser

633
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: for Amelia Earhart, wrote to Eleanor Roosevelt asking if she

634
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: would use her influence to get him a copy of

635
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: the official report of the cutter Itasca because they were

636
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: good friends an Eleanor. Yeah, they were, or at least

637
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: it's not good friends. They were friends. Yeah, he had

638
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: asked the Coast Guard for a copy of the report,

639
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: but they said that they wouldn't release it to him

640
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: for the right channels or something. Apparently. Yeah, So Eleanor

641
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: sent the letter to Henry Morgan thou with a note

642
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,959
Speaker 1: Henry market that was Secretary of the Treasury and one

643
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,479
Speaker 1: of the FDR's closest advisors. And on May thirteenth nine

644
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: and this this eventually turned up actually in the files

645
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: of the National Archives. Morganto called Eleanor Roosevelt and spoke

646
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: with their secretary and he said to her, and I

647
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: quote this letter that Mrs Roosevelt wrote me about trying

648
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: to get the report on Amelia Earhart. Now I've been

649
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: given a verbal report. If we're going to really is this,

650
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: it's just going to smear the whole reputation of Amelia Earhart.

651
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: If we ever released the report of the Ataska on

652
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: Amelia Earhart, any reputation she's got is gone. Now I

653
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: know what the Navy did, I know what the Ataska did,

654
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 1: and I know how Amelia Earhart absolutely disregarded orders. And

655
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: if we ever release this thing, goodbye Amelia Earhart's reputation unquote.

656
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: Now some people took this to me that Morgat that

657
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 1: was thinking that a reputation would be ruined if people

658
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: found out that she'd been spying for Uncle Sam. I

659
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: don't take it that way. The one who feels like

660
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: he's saying she screwed. Yeah, I mean, there's like in

661
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: the even in the official story, right, it says like

662
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: she changed frequencies and obviously that was like a huge

663
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: miss staff, right, Yeah, And I'm sure if she could

664
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: hear the instructions she disregarded them, right, but like who,

665
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 1: like why would you? I guess if she couldn't hear them,

666
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: then it's understandable she might have been following a process

667
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: she had done before. I guess it's also possible. It's

668
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: just occurring to me that she changed frequencies because she

669
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: couldn't or anything and thought, good point, they're not getting

670
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Cycle through the frequency is not necessarily

671
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: not a bad idea. You know. It might be like

672
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: what you're saying too, with the whole thing about getting

673
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: hit by lightning and having to go out half way

674
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 1: through maybe something I mean even like a piece of hail,

675
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: you know, like she just didn't know it could happen.

676
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: I do, I'll g I guess I do want to

677
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: go ahead and state that, like, if your plane got

678
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,919
Speaker 1: hit by lightning, probably be one of the first things

679
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: you said as soon as you were within radio contact,

680
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: if you thought anybody could hear you, you would say, hey,

681
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: we got hit by lightning. So I don't know what's

682
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 1: going on, but here's some information. And then you wouldn't

683
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: need to say, hey, I got hit by lightning. Here's

684
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: another update. We don't know what's going on, right, It

685
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: does seem like you would mention that, but yeah, I'm sorry,

686
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: that's off topic. I think that report would have been

687
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 1: oh my god, lightning got hit by lightning. Oh my god,

688
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: oh my god, oh my god, lightning, oh my god,

689
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, but that you would want, I mean,

690
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 1: maybe this is just my rational Yeah, I understand entirely,

691
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: but it's perfectly okay. You know, if you go down,

692
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: you just deploy your life raft and you're fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay,

693
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: Well back to this article. Reineck goes on too. And

694
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: by the way, this guy this is really annoying. When

695
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: I was typing this up. This guy's name is spelled

696
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: R E I N E. C. K. And every time

697
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: I would type that his name and able to autocorrect

698
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: would turn it into red necks. Yeah. Yeah, I finally

699
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: just gave up his red neck. Yeah. His article also

700
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: notes some gaps in the radiologus, which I don't find

701
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: entirely all that suspicious, you know. And uh, he makes

702
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: note of a of a letter that had been received

703
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: by the U. S. Armies saying that Amelia had been

704
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: shot down by the Japanese. And then last of all,

705
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: he talks about a request from Senuel Daniel Acacca of

706
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: Hawaii to Treasury Secretary Nicholas Brady. Senator Roca wanted to

707
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: see Henry Morganteus files on Amelia and shout Treasury Secretary

708
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: Brady replied that the morgan the files had been sent

709
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: to the National Archives. Well that's suspicious, don't you think.

710
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: I know, that's That's what I'm wondering why, But yeah,

711
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: he's yeah, that this right, yeah Rightdeck as a basically

712
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: a cover of so Morgant morgantou Stone walls about Amelia

713
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: and then Brady Stone walls on Morgant thou um so

714
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: cover up, cover up, And that to me doesn't prove

715
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 1: a damn thing. But that's the way this guy spun

716
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Yeah. But the problem with this whole

717
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: theory about spying in the Marshall Islands is if she

718
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: had if she had gone through the Marshalls and overflown

719
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: representative number of islands and set to see what the

720
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 1: Japanese are doing, and then headed on down to Holland Island,

721
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: she would have run out of fuel. That's a significant yeah. Yeah,

722
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: And as it happens, it would have been even bigger

723
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: because the plan actually did flew over the island of

724
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,959
Speaker 1: Nauru on the way halfway out there, so I would

725
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 1: have had to go halfway. Um, I think so, yeah,

726
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: they're at least radio, but I think it was still

727
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,919
Speaker 1: light what she went over that that island. That after

728
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: passing that island, she would have had to basically turn

729
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: left and head up to the head up to the

730
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: Marshals do or spying and then come back down. So

731
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: it was even a more significant detour than just going

732
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: straight there from light. Also, um wouldn't have been like night.

733
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I did a good film, yeah, really really

734
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: good camera. You don't have film that good? Yeah, I

735
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: mean I don't. Yeah, I'm probably the military does, but

736
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah. Yeah, but they didn't have that kind

737
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: of not in a place when they couldn't even change

738
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: over to the right radio frequency. They didn't. You would

739
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: have had to put a really big flash bowl on

740
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: the bottom, and then it would have been probably reported. Yeah, right,

741
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: Have there been any UFO reports from that time in

742
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: that area, Yeah, it's her. Yeah. Anyway, back to the report,

743
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: the report was kind of scathing. It was written by

744
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: the about and that and that is I've seen I've

745
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: seen some extra from the report, and it was rather scathing,

746
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: and so that's obviously the reason why Margot didn't want

747
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: to release it. I think. I think part of it, though,

748
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 1: is is the there was a certain level of sexism

749
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: at that time towards that profession, and I'm sure that

750
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: that really colored the reports, Yeah, influenced so that it

751
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: was in the tone that it was in. Yeah, there

752
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: probably there was some bias on the part of at

753
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: least some of these people. There's no doubt about that. Yeah.

754
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say no doubt. I mean there could have been.

755
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was. There probably was. Lastly,

756
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 1: on the spying theory, Amelia's families denies that she as

757
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: he was doing any of that. Her sister said that

758
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: they were very close and that there's no way that

759
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: she would have not mentioned that to her. I'm just

760
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: gonna it was I'm just gonna say again, it seems

761
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 1: like a really but if you're trying to do something covert,

762
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: why would you tack it onto something where you're literally

763
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: publicizing that exactly. And the fact of the matter is,

764
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: you know, there were plenty of plenty of ways to

765
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: get spies in there to look around, and so yeah,

766
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: this just seems like a weird cover story. Now that's

767
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: a lane. I get this one to fail. What do

768
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 1: you guys think? Yeah, basically no zone, okay ye. Our

769
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: next theory is that they couldn't find Hown Island, so

770
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: they crashed land on me Atoll in the Marshall Islands,

771
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: which is you know, the south south side of the chain,

772
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: but it is controlled by the Japanese, and the Japanese

773
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: you know, of course, grabbed them and you know, send

774
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: them to Saipan and and then eventually killed them. Uh.

775
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: There are this there are a fair number of people

776
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: who actually buy into this theory. They would have had

777
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: to have been way far off course to um, I

778
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: mean really far off course. I guess my thing with

779
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: that is that wouldn't it seems like the Japanese would

780
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: try to ransom them, ransom them, not if they were

781
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: hiding something, but they were hiding so were doing they

782
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: would not ransom those people. But I don't think that

783
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: this theory says that they were hiding something, right, It

784
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: was just that they accident, They were off course when

785
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 1: they crash landed. Yeah, I thought you were talking about

786
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: the Japanese hiding something. Oh I was You're saying that

787
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: they weren't hiding anything. They did Japanese find them and

788
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: would have then tried to ransom them, ransom them all.

789
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 1: I don't think they would have even tried that. You.

790
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: I mean, we were not at war with Japan at

791
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: this time, but we weren't. We weren't under good relations,

792
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: so it wasn't it wasn't the best. But now it's

793
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 1: not like we had the best relations with the Russians.

794
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: But the Russians, if somebody crash landed on their territory

795
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: would probably just hand them back, you know. The it

796
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 1: was because they were civilians And I didn't mention this before,

797
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 1: as you guys know, there was a huge search effort

798
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: undertaken to find her, and they called a huge amount

799
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,720
Speaker 1: of ocean looking for the plane and they never found

800
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: it and attend to Japanese warships took part in that

801
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 1: search effort, you know. Yeah, it does seem unlikely. Yeah,

802
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: they would have probably said we have them, well if

803
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: they if they had something super secret on the atoll,

804
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 1: but I've seen aerials of that and it's just a

805
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: basically kind of a square, a sliver of land around

806
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: a big lagoon. There's not not much you can put

807
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: their militarily speaking, well, and I know I'm looking at

808
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: your notes, but there's there's people who say that that

809
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: they give accounts that these two were alive at some

810
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 1: point with the Japanese, and that's a weird thing to me. Yeah.

811
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: And then yeah, and so they captured on the atoll

812
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: and then they took him to Saipan and eventually, so

813
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 1: the story goes, they were both executed or Fred got

814
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,919
Speaker 1: executed and Amelia died of disease or something, and maybe

815
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: Amelia and Fred were actually spied for the Japanese. That

816
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: could have been. Maybe they're over there living there right now. Yeah, anyway,

817
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have any more thoughts

818
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: on this. I give it a fail. I mean, they're

819
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: playing could easily have reached the atoll from where they left.

820
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: I mean, but again, it would be a massive, massive

821
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: error of navigation, but it could have. It could have

822
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: reached it for sure. Now I don't think but by

823
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: going all the way over to Holland and then up, No,

824
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: no way, okay fail. Another story that got out there

825
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: is I think this started about seventies, that she survived

826
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: and assumed a new identity and in New Jersey she's

827
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 1: living with a tupac and yeah, doth Arnold, Yeah exactly, yeah. Yeah.

828
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 1: So this idea was floated in a book called Amelia

829
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: Earhart Lives, published in nineteen seventy. The claim is that

830
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: Amelia survived Japanese captivity, returned to the US after the

831
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,280
Speaker 1: war and where she moved into New Jersey and changed

832
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: her name to Irene Polam and uh Irene for her

833
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 1: parts through the publisher and got an out of court

834
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: settlement for an undisclosed amount, and then the book was

835
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: taken off the market. I've seen a picture of Irene

836
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: and she looks sort of like Amelia Earhart. Did you

837
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: guys ever see that picture over it's out there? I

838
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: want to say yes, but I don't remember it. Not

839
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: a perfect match, I would say, not even like Devin

840
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 1: showing it to me. Yeah, that's she looks like Princess

841
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: Die more than a million. Yeah. Yeah, so you know,

842
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: so I think this is an incredibly weak theory. How

843
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: anybody could buy intoism is beyond me, much less publish

844
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: a book about it. And why would why wouldn't reli

845
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: are do that? Well exactly, she liked publicity. Yeah, it's

846
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: hard to imagine her living in obscurity voluntarily because if

847
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 1: she had come home after the war, she would have

848
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: come home to a hero's welcome. That would have been huge,

849
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 1: and then she could have she could have written books

850
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: that would have made movies. I mean seriously, it would

851
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: have been. It was part of what she made part

852
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: of her living from before she went on this, is

853
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: that she was on a speaking tour and writing books.

854
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 1: She was going to write a book about this, this

855
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: around the world. Of the reason to do this was

856
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: to generate of, you know, money for the next five

857
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: to ten years. Yeah, yeah, and so so this is

858
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: one of the most assnine theories I've ever seen. Do

859
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: you guys agree? Yeah, I believe you're going to say

860
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: this is a fail. That's a fail. Okay, next theory

861
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: not quite okay, not quite. Yeah. So this theory is there.

862
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: There's there's an island fifty miles south southeast of of

863
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: our island of Holland. A lot of people think that

864
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: they crash landed on an island called Gardner Island, which

865
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: is about three fifty miles south southeast of Holland Island. Uh.

866
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: And there's a there's a reef on the northwest corner

867
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 1: of the island, and it's kind of flat, flat enough

868
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: to land a playing on. So let's believe that she

869
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 1: could have landed that plane on the reef and actually

870
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: been there for you know, days, or however long it

871
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,439
Speaker 1: took it. But they eventually died of thirst. So here's

872
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: why so many people liked this theory. Remember I talked

873
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: about that line they were traveling on seven three seven, Uh,

874
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: Now it's seven okay anyway, So they if you draw

875
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: that lawn through that line through Holland Island, it almost

876
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: did that that bearing and almost directly goes to Gardener Island.

877
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: On reason people like it, So it's yeah, it would

878
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: be south of there. For four or five days after

879
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: she went missing, there were various weak radio signals that

880
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: people were hearing that were perhaps from Amelia Earhart. So

881
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: it was theorized at the time that maybe she had

882
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: found a place to land and he was broadcasting S

883
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: O S messages. So that's another reason that people like

884
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: this theory. Yeah. So what if I remember I said

885
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: that there were there were big cloud banks to the

886
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: west of Holland Island. What if they emerged through a

887
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: navigation area or far south, far from far enough south

888
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: of Holland Island, they were not able to see that

889
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: column of smoke that the Atasca was admitting and so

890
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: as far enough, so they turned before they were lower. Yeah, yeah,

891
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: one way or another. Uh, they don't see it, and

892
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: so they and so then they're under the impression that

893
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: they're actually north of Holland Island. So they turned right,

894
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 1: had done that line. Maybe you know, they they wind

895
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: up coming across this island, which is not the right island.

896
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: But well, we're out of gas, so it's time to

897
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: land this thing. So yeah, if you're running out somewhere

898
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: to land and the yeah, and and so other supports

899
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,760
Speaker 1: for the theory is in there was a British colonial

900
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: officer named Gerald Gallagher who found a skeleton and what

901
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 1: appeared to be a sexton box on the southeast corner

902
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,919
Speaker 1: of Gardener Island. You know, I'm not I'm not calling

903
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: it the actual name of it as Nicu mar Ro.

904
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: I'm calling it Gardener Island. They've renamed it, but I'm

905
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: gonna call it Gardener Island now. Yeah, this one, Uh no,

906
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: it's sacri figout what country it's It's part of another

907
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: like Archipela Archipelago. Country that's not Japanese. Gerald Gallagher set

908
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: the skeleton to Fiji, where British authorities had looked at it,

909
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: and they concluded that it had belonged to a man

910
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 1: about five ft five inches tall, But then analysis of

911
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 1: the measurement data concluded that the scaleton naturally belonged to

912
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: a tall white woman of European ancestry. Uh that. I

913
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: never understood how that worked, How they managed to do that?

914
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: You mean, yeah, that's a good question. Was gone, Yeah,

915
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 1: that's the original skeletons long Sin. Yeah, so I don't

916
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 1: know they did got a look at the records and something.

917
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: I conclude that it's actually not a five ft five guy.

918
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 1: But you know, I don't know if they were photographs

919
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: or what. But well, I guess maybe if there were

920
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 1: like specimens, samples, spamples. Yeah, I don't think so, yeah,

921
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: I don't. Well, this is done under the auspices of

922
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: a group called let me it's the International Group for

923
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: Historic Aircraft Recovery a k A. Tiger. Yeah, yeah, I

924
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: know they these guys started investigating Gardner Island as a

925
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: possible resting place for Amelian Fred's in eight and I

926
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: think they're still at it. I know they had they

927
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: had an expedition i'd look as late as two thousand

928
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: twelve out to the island, So they've been island. Now,

929
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: it's not that huge now that as far as I

930
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 1: can tell, they have an unblevished record. In twenty years

931
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: of historic aircraft recovery, they haven't found anything. Yeah, it's

932
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: a perfect record. Yeah, and maybe they haven't been rung

933
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: yet perfect zero, but it's perfect. Yeah. So any way

934
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: that that's what they believe, is that they landed on

935
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,839
Speaker 1: the reef and then they just died. Yeah. And again

936
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: it is the radio. Because of the radio messages which

937
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,439
Speaker 1: were heard by a lot of people. Nobody is really

938
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: sure if it was Amelia or just pranksters. I could

939
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: have been a lot of pranksters. So the thing that

940
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: I read was that because everybody knew that she was

941
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: missing and they were on that frequency, a lot of

942
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: people were calling and people and I've read this and

943
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 1: somebody said, you know, there was so much traffic on

944
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: there that it was kind of jammed up, and you've

945
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: got little whisps of prior of transmissions that were just

946
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: too low to make out, but you could kind of

947
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: hear something, and so that's people were like, Oh, no,

948
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 1: that's what's this kind of saying, that's what's happening is

949
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 1: that it's just too many people on the band and

950
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: they're all talking and it's just degrading the signal. So

951
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 1: you're just picking up little bits here and there. But

952
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: normally there's let's say five people in the Pacific using it,

953
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: there's now five hundred. Problem. Yeah, it is a problem,

954
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: and they usually regulate things like that. I know there

955
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 1: are a lot of military frequencies where you cannot as

956
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: beyond they regulate stuff like that, but I guess this

957
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: one they weren't regulating. Ah yeah, and this this might

958
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: have been all over the frequency range too. I'm not sure.

959
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: It also could have been under the auspice of like,

960
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 1: let's all listen to see if we can hear her.

961
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: Then they might have been a little more lenient at

962
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: that point. That is the thing to do is just

963
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: for everybody to just shut up and stay off the

964
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,240
Speaker 1: radio and just listen. Yeah, that would have been. There

965
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: was people calling Amelia, can you hear us? You hear

966
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: the ghost of you know, the bits of a voice

967
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 1: through the static. Yeah, and you think you hear you know,

968
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: somebody says, Amelia Earhard, are you there? It's and it

969
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: translates to Amelia Earhart is there? This happens exactly, And

970
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: it's the dumbest thing because I mean, obviously, if Amelia

971
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: and Fred have a working radio, they're going to be

972
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 1: on at trying to get calling you don't you think? Yeah? Yeah,

973
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: But anyway, there was one one notable instance, which was

974
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 1: a girl named Betty Clink who was living in Florida

975
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: at the time. This is a hell of a skip

976
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: if she got radio skip. Yeah, like you know us

977
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 1: not unheard of, but it is a hell of a skip.

978
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: You're right halfway around the world. Yeah, But she was

979
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: fiddling with her dad's shortwave radio and she heard a

980
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: woman's voice saying, this is Amelia Earhart. Helped me. So

981
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: she listened to this transmission for three hours or so.

982
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: It took notes, and years later she gave those notes

983
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: to Rick Gillespie, who is ahead of Tiger Tiger Tiger

984
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: or whatever you call him. Uh. And I've seen copies

985
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 1: of the notes. They're not there, they're not too readable.

986
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: What you can you can make sense. Somebody's transcribed them,

987
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: so they're making it much easier to read. Mostly a

988
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: woman's voice, but there was a man's voice in the background,

989
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 1: and he sounded kind of agitated and and at one

990
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: point he says he's got to leave because quote the

991
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 1: waters knee deep let me out unquote. And this woman

992
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: kept making reference to New York City and if actually

993
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 1: said that a total of seven times, which is key

994
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 1: because just a stone strowaway on that reef was the

995
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: wreck of the s S Norwich City, which, yeah, which

996
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: founded on that reef in team. So was Amelia saying

997
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: Norwich City, But Betty Clank was hearing New York City

998
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: or just not understanding what Norwich was. And yeah, yeah,

999
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: that's the closest thing that she knows about. So and

1000
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: with that, because that would be a way to clue

1001
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: the navy into your position. Now there are yeah, there

1002
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: are some numbers in Betty's notes, but none of them

1003
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: bear any resemblance to Gardner Island's actual coordinates. And since

1004
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: Fred was apparently still alive, it's been assumed by everybody

1005
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: that he was incapacitated due to injury or something, or

1006
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: maybe a sextant got broken in the landing, so they

1007
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: didn't know their location, but they luckily had a shipwreck

1008
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,720
Speaker 1: right there called the Norwich City. Very convenient, it's very handy,

1009
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: a great way to clue people in as to where

1010
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,280
Speaker 1: you are. But unluckily, it doesn't appear that anybody heard

1011
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: that transmission other than Betty, so well that makes you want. Yeah.

1012
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: Rick Gillespie, a Tiger, theorizes that the amelion, Fred and

1013
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: the plane were on the reef for four or five

1014
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: days before the plane got finally swept off the reef

1015
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 1: and out to sea, and they suspected it's still they're

1016
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: not far offshore, and of course they haven't found it

1017
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 1: yet though, and they did find, I think this was

1018
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 1: in two thousand twelve, they did find using sonar a

1019
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: large airplane sized object on the seafloor not too far

1020
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: away from the island. But there's yeah, there really are

1021
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 1: a lot of those. Yeah, I mean not not not

1022
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm being I'm joking specif theory, but there's

1023
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 1: a lot of airplane sized things on the bottom of

1024
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 1: the ocean. Frankly, whales are airplane sized things. That's a

1025
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 1: good point. And yeah, you know, in the course of

1026
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: the World War two we left, we left a lot

1027
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,439
Speaker 1: of airplane wreckage on the on the Pacific slore. So yeah,

1028
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: there's lots of it down there. Uh yeah, I don't

1029
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: know why they weren't able to confirm this, that this

1030
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 1: was actually the plane or not. Maybe they just wanted

1031
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 1: an excuse to come back with a later day. Yeah.

1032
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: Google Ocean hadn't been finished at that point, so well, anyway,

1033
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 1: they did score o the island. They found some interesting stuff.

1034
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: The big find is a rectangular piece of aluminum with

1035
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 1: a lot of ribbit holes in it. Yeah you've seen

1036
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: I have, and I really questioned it. That couldn't have

1037
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: come from anything else, you know. Beaches anywhere. Yeah, well

1038
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: they did have they did cover. They didn't have one

1039
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 1: of the windows on the on the electro plated over

1040
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: with aluminium. And this is about the size and dimensions

1041
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 1: of that piece of aluminum. So here's my question though,

1042
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: is I understand why the body of the aircraft has

1043
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: a bajillion rivets in it because it's riveting that skin

1044
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: to a frame. But why would the window cover have

1045
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:33,280
Speaker 1: a bajillion rivets that were in the same line as

1046
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: the body when there's no frame to be riveting it too? Well, yeah, exactly,

1047
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 1: I don't you know, I don't know what actually you

1048
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: would be building that would need that many rivets. It

1049
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,760
Speaker 1: was the riveted the hell out. Oh yeah, it's riddled

1050
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 1: with them. Yeah. Well we'll talk about that that piece

1051
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: a little bit later here, but yeah, that that is

1052
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: definitely a reasonable question. But Rick Ullespie of Tiger is

1053
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: uh says he's that it's it's a real deal. Let's

1054
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 1: see what else they find is there. Can you do

1055
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: testing on the metal? I under sure you could probably

1056
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 1: you know, like if they took it to I'm sorry

1057
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 1: who made the electra blocked. If like he took it

1058
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: to Lockheed and said, hey, can you test this medal

1059
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 1: if it's even remotely similar to what you used at

1060
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 1: that time? It seems like they could do that, right,

1061
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 1: probably okay, but I don't know if he's done that

1062
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 1: or not. He claims he likes his point. Yeah, he plans.

1063
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,320
Speaker 1: He claims he's got it and gotten it more or

1064
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: less authenticated, But I don't know what that process hasn't

1065
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 1: released any of the authentication information. Well, we are more

1066
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: or less detectives. Yeah, yeah, the well, you know the

1067
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 1: detective's license. Yeah, well you know that. That's that's like

1068
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 1: the whole skeleton thing. You know, suddenly this guy, this

1069
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: guy gets involved with and suddenly they decided it had

1070
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: to be a tall white woman. Yeah, and uh, let's

1071
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: see what else they found. They found an impressive hall

1072
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: of stuff. They found a cap from a jar, zipper

1073
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 1: pole that he left, a woman shoe, a piece of

1074
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 1: plexiglass that was curved and they could possibly have been

1075
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 1: from an airplane window if we improvised tools. And a

1076
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: piece of bone one that appears to be part of

1077
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: a human finger, although DNA analysis has been inconclusive on

1078
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,240
Speaker 1: that one. Do you think Amelia a heart war heels

1079
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: when she was flying. Well, I'm not sure if these

1080
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: were high heels or low heels. I don't knows of

1081
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 1: any kind. Yeah, I don't know. Well, boots, I mean

1082
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: you wear boots in general, I mean just regular day

1083
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: to day boots have a heel on them. Yeah, these

1084
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 1: aren't high heels. No, I think they're like, look at

1085
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 1: Joe's shoe. There's a heel on the rear of it.

1086
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: But it's part of the overall soul. It's so I

1087
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 1: I have the impression that it's a I'm sorry, I'm

1088
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: kind of a nerd about thing. I know you are,

1089
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: that it's a disconnected soul. That it's not. You know

1090
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:37,839
Speaker 1: that the heel is different from the soul of the shoe,

1091
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: which usually means that it's a bigger heel a little bit. No,

1092
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 1: if it's going to be a flat soul, If you're

1093
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,319
Speaker 1: wearing a flat shoe of any kind, the soul is

1094
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: one one continuous piece. Even an inch, you usually have

1095
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 1: the same continuous piece. Yes, don't look at me like that.

1096
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 1: I know my stuff. And then two inches usually is

1097
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: when you start to get the too disconnected pieces. No,

1098
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 1: even I think, Okay, I don't know, I mean because yeah,

1099
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: I have. I've owned pairs of dress shoes, for example,

1100
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 1: where it was like a long sort of almost wouldn't

1101
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: he any thing with a with a rubber soul attached

1102
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: to it? And then we're talking like, you know, half

1103
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: to three quarters of an inch of of heal, yeah,

1104
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: and so you know, I'm very sure could have become

1105
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: disconnected somehow. So if we're talking, yeah, I wouldn't call

1106
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: that a heel off of a person's shoe that they

1107
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: don't know even for sure if it's a man's or

1108
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: a woman's. I don't know that there's much to be

1109
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: gained by this because we Joe just hit on the

1110
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: perfect point. We don't know if it's a man or

1111
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: a woman's heel, and it could have washed up there

1112
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: along with a thousand rubber ducky well exactly, So we're

1113
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: talking it's the rubber we have we seen pictures of it,

1114
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: the hell yeah, I have not. If you could probably

1115
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: go out to Tiger's website and see if he's But

1116
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: here's the deal is that that island is people have

1117
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: been people have actually lived on that island off and

1118
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 1: on for for years, and people have been visiting the

1119
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: island at the time for you know, for well over

1120
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: a hundred years, people have been coming and going from that,

1121
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: as have critters, which is why the fingerbone could easily

1122
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 1: be from a turtle. Yeah, that's what they're saying, is

1123
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: that the as far as the DNA analysis goes, because

1124
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: they can't tell, I can't tell if it's a human

1125
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: or sea turtle. They really can't, but it would be.

1126
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 1: It would be really surprising if you scoured the island

1127
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 1: to not find some junk land around. People are messy.

1128
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: We threw stuff in the ocean off that time. I

1129
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 1: am impressed that they found so little, I really am.

1130
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: It means they are either spectacularly incompetent or people have

1131
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 1: been a lot tied here than we give them credit

1132
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: for him. I don't know. But here's my other problems

1133
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: with what their theory overall, which is the the the

1134
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: aluminum panel. Their theory stipulates that the plane landed on

1135
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: the reef intact and they were using the radio. So

1136
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: that how did that luin in peace get detached from

1137
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: the airplane. It's a good question. Yeah, yeah, all right.

1138
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 1: Next up Betty Clank's notes. Remember Norwich Norwich City to

1139
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 1: New York City. Um, and I looked in there and

1140
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 1: there are lots of references to New York City, but

1141
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: nowhere near that is the word wreck or shipwreck, because

1142
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: you know, I think about it. Imagine, but I could,

1143
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: I could see you saying, you know, we are near

1144
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: the Norwich City expecting everybody to understand that the Norwich

1145
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 1: is a wreck. Yeah. Here's a question. When was it

1146
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: that Betty was listening? Betty? Right, Betty? Supposedly it was

1147
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: like the afternoon of July, So it was right when

1148
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: they would okay, never mind, I was going to make

1149
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: the argument that, Okay, so they're like dehydrated and malnourished

1150
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 1: and have just gone through this incredible trauma. You know,

1151
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: you're just kind of saying things that you can see,

1152
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 1: not necessarily thinking, oh I should tell them it's a shipwreck.

1153
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: But if it was that night, no, no, yeah, no

1154
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: it was. And and and the thing about it is is, um,

1155
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: let's imagine you're you're shipwrecked and there's a ship right there.

1156
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: It's called the Bob Jones, the s S Bob Jones,

1157
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: and you want to be found. So if you have

1158
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 1: half a half an ascid brains, you're not going to

1159
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 1: be saying Bob Jones, Bob Jones, Bob Jones. You're not

1160
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 1: gonna say that. You're gonna say the wreck of the

1161
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 1: Bob Jones, the shipwreck of the Bob Jones, if anything else,

1162
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 1: the uss Bob Jones. Yeah, and this does assume that

1163
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 1: she was, you know, that she was hearing Amelia heard,

1164
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 1: or the she was transcribing whatever from that first night,

1165
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: because if you take a couple of days of dehydration

1166
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 1: and malnourishment and stuff like that, it's it's much easier

1167
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: to see that you're just literally like rock ship ocean tree. True,

1168
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: you know, but but the island had that was surveyed

1169
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: later that year. By the next I'll talk to talk

1170
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 1: about that it had well over a hundred big, healthy

1171
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 1: coconut trees. Yeah, what you could say, Yeah, lots of

1172
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 1: lots of that stuff. So here's my next problem with

1173
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 1: their theory, which is, Okay, the plane was washed off

1174
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 1: the reef by wave action, but wouldn't it be more

1175
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 1: likely that breakers would have been coming in from outside

1176
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 1: the island and pushed the plane off into the lagoon.

1177
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 1: I would say, not even more likely. Yes, I actually

1178
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 1: want to play Devil's advocate because you're presuming that it

1179
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 1: is landed in the middle of and sitting on top

1180
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 1: of the reef instead of just just barely resting on

1181
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 1: the exterior edge of the reef, which when it breaks

1182
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 1: free and it's sinking, it would slide back down just

1183
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 1: the wave action would break whatever was holding it. Doesn't

1184
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: seem like then it would just be sitting like right

1185
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 1: next to I am in I'm in agreement when you

1186
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: on that point, but I'm saying it. I think that yes,

1187
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 1: it should have gone in works, but it could easily

1188
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: have gone outwards and then it's blown through the ocean

1189
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 1: for several miles. That thing, with that, with that big

1190
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 1: gass empty tank, it would have it would have I

1191
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 1: don't know that it would have been positively boy, but

1192
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: it definitely wouldn't have been too terribly negatively when so,

1193
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:09,919
Speaker 1: it could have easily floated a long ways away. Yeah,

1194
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: especially with those big old wings. You know, we could

1195
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: just you could just drift on for miles perfectly. Uh.

1196
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 1: Here's my next problem with it, though, is that it

1197
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,439
Speaker 1: really does appear from the radio transmissions they were getting

1198
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: they were even stronger and stronger. I mean, it appears

1199
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 1: that Amelia and Fred were very close to Holland Island

1200
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: before they made that turn and headed south. And it

1201
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 1: just seems they just they just did not have enough

1202
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: gas to get all the way to Gardener Island. But

1203
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 1: what do you guys think, I think, Yeah, I mean

1204
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: there's that it's even a perfect mileage. I think it's

1205
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: a stretch to say they got there. And they definitely

1206
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 1: weren't getting perfect mileage. No, they weren't. They weren't. They

1207
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't know what the head winds and everything else. Uh.

1208
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: And here's my last problem with it is that's the

1209
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: navy plane searched the other and I mean they've searched

1210
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 1: all the islands in the vicinity. Yeah, they flew around

1211
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 1: it on July night and they circled it, flew over

1212
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 1: it and everything, and they looked at it pretty carefully,

1213
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 1: and they saw nothing. Uh. And of course, as you said,

1214
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: they could have died of thirst. Except that's just only

1215
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: they're really, really stupid, or they found no way to

1216
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: crack open coconuts, which you know would mean there's no rocks. Yeah. Yeah,

1217
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: And I got used their heel of their shoe, which

1218
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: we did find. It is a wide soul of the

1219
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: bottom of one of them. Yeah, you know, I'm sure

1220
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 1: they must have had something on the plane. Yeah, or

1221
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 1: a rock or a rock yea or a rock. I

1222
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: literally have rock will do it. Yeah, I know that's

1223
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 1: the historic documentary, right yeah. Yeah. So anyway, besides those guys,

1224
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: in October n seven, a British Colonial Service survey team

1225
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: went to the island and spent three days surveying it.

1226
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 1: That those are the guys that they think they kind

1227
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 1: of a huddering in eleven big coconut trees with lots

1228
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 1: of coconuts on them. They said that there was just

1229
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 1: you know, scads and scads of fish in the lagoon

1230
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 1: and big coconut crabs which would be real good eats,

1231
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 1: probably not that hard to catch, and said there was

1232
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 1: plenty of plenty of stuff to keep them alive there.

1233
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 1: And last of all, there would have been a lot

1234
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 1: of stuff if if their plane was actually on the reef,

1235
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't they wouldn't you have offloaded everything that you could

1236
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 1: off of that plane onto the island. That's presuming that

1237
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 1: you're able to get back to the plane easily. Well,

1238
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 1: apparently they were, because they kept going on the plane

1239
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 1: to make radio calls. Maybe they stayed in the plane.

1240
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 1: It could It could be if they stayed in the

1241
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: plane too. May have said that is a long way

1242
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: and I can't make that swim and oh god, sharks

1243
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 1: because we're a friend of sharks or sorry, oh no,

1244
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 1: and so they just say, screw it, We're gonna stay

1245
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 1: here where we can use our radio, which is weird

1246
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 1: because the radio probably would have been dead in the water.

1247
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: But okay, okay, whatever. Yeah, well, now this is this

1248
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 1: The reef was actually somebody did an analysis of that

1249
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:51,959
Speaker 1: whole thing, of the tides and everything, and the reef

1250
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 1: was actually high and dry it most of the time.

1251
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it was not always completely high dry, but

1252
01:04:57,760 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 1: I think I think the water rose up over the

1253
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 1: top of it. Not huge, not a huge amount, although

1254
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 1: tides varied from day to day. I was in the

1255
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 1: presumption that it would have been partially submerged at all times.

1256
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: That was my presumption. I would, I guess, piggyback on

1257
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 1: the argument that Steve was making earlier that the plane

1258
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 1: could have been on the outer edge of the reef

1259
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 1: kind of like you know, almost like a car over

1260
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: a cliff, right, And so you kind of have to say, well, yeah,

1261
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 1: there's usable stuff in there. But if I go back

1262
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 1: in there and get sucked down with it, I'm done.

1263
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 1: So let's just stay where we're at with the things

1264
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 1: we have. But you would assume that they had something,

1265
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 1: but they again, yeah, they would have taken something with you.

1266
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: It's a plane plops down, is it moving? You grab

1267
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: whatever you can, You get your go bag of stuff

1268
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:44,480
Speaker 1: and you go. Well, and they had, as far as

1269
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 1: I know, unless they were really really stupid and they

1270
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 1: threw it away, they had a life raft in there.

1271
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 1: Although let's be fair, they threw away there antenna, so

1272
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 1: they might they were offloading stuff to reduce weight right

1273
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 1: where they left on this. Yeah, I mean, so nobody

1274
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 1: really knows. I mean, I suppose you could. You could

1275
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 1: stay with you know, perfect common sense to say, hey,

1276
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 1: if we go down, we're just gonna we're just gonna

1277
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 1: break up and die anyway, So who needs a life raft?

1278
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:13,680
Speaker 1: So maybe that's what they were thinking of. Yeah, those

1279
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 1: life rafts are really heavy, that's true. Okay, So anyway,

1280
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 1: it still amazes me that so many people take this

1281
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 1: theory seriously. Yeah, I have a lot of problems with it.

1282
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 1: I think it's the hope, I guess, you know, because

1283
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:29,960
Speaker 1: I mean, not the thing. We encounter this, well, we

1284
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 1: encounter this in a lot of stories. Right. The logical

1285
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 1: answer is this person disappeared. These people are dead. This happened,

1286
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds really jaded, but that is

1287
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 1: the logical answer. But as humans, we want to assume

1288
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 1: that these other human beings survived. But I don't forget

1289
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: also that there's some people who make money off this stuff.

1290
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean so Rick Ollespie and Tiger they

1291
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 1: made a good living off this stuff. So yeah, so

1292
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:58,479
Speaker 1: I maybe I should maybe I should start doing something

1293
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 1: like this, I don't know, like a podcast about stuff

1294
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:03,919
Speaker 1: like this or whatever. You go. Yeah, yeah, well let's

1295
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: get on to our last area. Speaking of we're going

1296
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: to break up in the air anyway. Yeah yeah, I know.

1297
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 1: So this is a lot of there are people who

1298
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 1: really believe this, and kind it seems kind of obvious. Actually,

1299
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 1: So they faced head winds throughout the trip. I had

1300
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: heard twenty six point five miles an hour, but let's

1301
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 1: assume it was intermittent. Uh So I concluded an average

1302
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 1: headwind of twenty miles an hour just for fun. Optimiary

1303
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: are speed for the electra Is was a hundred forty

1304
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:33,440
Speaker 1: five miles an hour for the best field economy, which is,

1305
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 1: of course you're gonna want the best bank for your buck.

1306
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 1: Fuel wise, Amelia and fred I was told that Amelia

1307
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 1: intended to fly at mph that would give the electrical

1308
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 1: ground speed we're assuming again twenty miles an hour average

1309
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 1: and headwinds, that would be a ground speed of a

1310
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 1: hundred twenty five miles an hour. So they reported at

1311
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 1: twenty hours and fourteen minutes into their trip that they

1312
01:07:56,560 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 1: turned to the one seven three thirty seven bearing. So

1313
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:03,600
Speaker 1: if their ground speed was on dur they would have

1314
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 1: been two thousand, five hundred nine miles into the trip

1315
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: and twenty seven miles short of Gardener Island. Yeah, so

1316
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:15,000
Speaker 1: I remember what the commander of the Ataska said about

1317
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 1: the smoke. Didn't think it'd be more than twenty miles

1318
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 1: right from the north and west. He didn't think it

1319
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:21,599
Speaker 1: would be visible more than twenty miles NT. It's it's

1320
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 1: a huge shame, But you know, if they had just

1321
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:26,680
Speaker 1: gone a few more miles before they made that turn, uh,

1322
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 1: you know, things they might have turned out a lot

1323
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 1: differently if they were being able to see the sun

1324
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:34,600
Speaker 1: and then it had just come up. It's so it

1325
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:36,439
Speaker 1: might have been shining in their eyes if they could

1326
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 1: see it. It It doesn't sound like they could, because if

1327
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 1: they had been able to see the sun, you would

1328
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 1: think they'd be able to see that column of smoke. Yeah, maybe,

1329
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 1: or maybe not. You know, maybe they popped out into

1330
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 1: the sun and then and that's the column of smoke

1331
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 1: was directly between them and the sun, and they were

1332
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 1: just they were kind of blinded and they just couldn't

1333
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 1: see it. So I can't remember was it was it

1334
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 1: a coal fired unit or was it steam fired this ship?

1335
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 1: Because I'm trying to is it is it actually black

1336
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 1: smoke that it was belching, or was it was oil

1337
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:07,560
Speaker 1: steam or oil or what was it? Was it was

1338
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 1: some kind of sooty thing. I'm not sure they would

1339
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:12,879
Speaker 1: have been a black it wouldn't have been a steam cloud.

1340
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 1: I just suddenly couldn't grab that bit of information. Yeah,

1341
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:19,720
Speaker 1: I believe it was coal fired. I probably should have

1342
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 1: checked on that, But I guess also coming out of

1343
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 1: a bunch of clouds, you might think, well there's another

1344
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:30,679
Speaker 1: freaking cloud. Yeah, okay, Well, according to what the commander said,

1345
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 1: do you seem to think it was pretty distinctively darker

1346
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: than the surrounding clouds. Yeah, he said, he said it was.

1347
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 1: It would have There's no way they could have not

1348
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,599
Speaker 1: seen it unless they were more than twenty miles unless

1349
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 1: they were more than twenty miles away to the west. Yeah.

1350
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 1: But I think that they might have chosen a poor

1351
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,080
Speaker 1: time to arrive at Holland, and they probably should have

1352
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 1: left a little later, like one or two in the afternoon,

1353
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 1: and then in that way they would get there, it'd

1354
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 1: be mid morning and the lights and the light would

1355
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 1: be better, yeah, bad more Yeah. Yeah. But as as

1356
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:01,800
Speaker 1: far as tenants soon how Fred noon and could have

1357
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 1: made that navigational error is up to there's been conjecture

1358
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: about that. The one is that just because of the

1359
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:10,679
Speaker 1: weather conditions, it was impossible for him to get accurate

1360
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:13,680
Speaker 1: fixes on stars and the sun, and so he was

1361
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:15,760
Speaker 1: just going by dead reckoning, and he figured out that

1362
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 1: twenty hours of flight they had to have reached the

1363
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:23,679
Speaker 1: longitude of Howland, and maybe they understated estivated the total

1364
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:27,400
Speaker 1: strength of the head winds against them. Uh. And there's

1365
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: another theory that I read about, which is that he

1366
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:31,640
Speaker 1: might have been able to take a fix on the

1367
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:34,000
Speaker 1: sun as it came up and you can do that

1368
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:36,360
Speaker 1: to fix if you know the time, you can do

1369
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 1: you can use that to fix your latitude. But you

1370
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 1: have to make there's a certain way of calculating it

1371
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 1: if you're on land, but if you're a thousand feet

1372
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 1: in the air, you have to make an adjustment to that.

1373
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 1: And do you have to know what the time is locally? Yeah,

1374
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:53,559
Speaker 1: so that could have been based on all I mean,

1375
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 1: we've we've been doing everything in granch mean, but if

1376
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 1: if the time zones are so weird, he could have

1377
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 1: easily been an hour ahead or behind where it was

1378
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:06,320
Speaker 1: half an hour and that would have changed his his

1379
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:13,320
Speaker 1: bury for what twenty hours storm? Yeah it was You know,

1380
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: when you do this stuff, you know, I don't know

1381
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 1: much about navigation, but I'm sure you've got to use

1382
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 1: Greenwich meantime. You can't be futching around with the times.

1383
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:22,320
Speaker 1: I don't really but but I mean, but okay, but

1384
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:25,880
Speaker 1: even if it's not that, yeah, I mean, they've been

1385
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 1: flying for how many days, for how many average hours

1386
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:31,640
Speaker 1: a day, They're coming off a twenty hour leg. At

1387
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 1: the end of their trip through a storm. You see

1388
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 1: the sun and you go, yeah, just turn that way. Yeah. Yeah,

1389
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:42,880
Speaker 1: So it might have been a really easy navigation errors

1390
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:45,720
Speaker 1: something that he didn't make that adjustment, and if he had,

1391
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,559
Speaker 1: just they ran out of fuel and they dumped it

1392
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 1: into open ocean. Yeah. See, this is the whole thing,

1393
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 1: is why it's they if their radio receiver had been working,

1394
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:57,559
Speaker 1: this would have turned out a lot differently because they

1395
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:00,080
Speaker 1: could have gotten a weather report from the Itasca and

1396
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,760
Speaker 1: they would have known basically, it's sunny to the south

1397
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 1: and east, cloud banks north and west, so they know

1398
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 1: that they're either in a cloud bank to the west

1399
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 1: of Howland or in a cloud bank to the north

1400
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:11,720
Speaker 1: of Holland. And all you have to do is turn

1401
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 1: southeast and keep going until you reach the sun. Turn right, Yeah,

1402
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 1: that's it. Turn right, yeah. And uh yeah, it's a

1403
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:20,920
Speaker 1: it's a damn shame. I mean, just that one little thing,

1404
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 1: you know, lacking that radio receivers. I think it's it's

1405
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 1: we started joking about this beginning, but I think it's

1406
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 1: she was using new tech and there was some problems

1407
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 1: with that and I wasn't tested and something went went

1408
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 1: wrong with it. We will never know what the problem was. Well,

1409
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 1: whenever we might find out, we might find a plan.

1410
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 1: One of these days. But I have a feeling that

1411
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:42,640
Speaker 1: by the time we find the plane that everything is

1412
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 1: going to be so corroded into we're not gonna be oh,

1413
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 1: look that one glass fuse with blue. Yeah. But if

1414
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 1: we find the plane on land, then we'll know that

1415
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 1: they lived. Well that's true. Yeah, and you know, if

1416
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:58,840
Speaker 1: we find that, we'll probably find some mysterious evidence that

1417
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:06,639
Speaker 1: he's choked her to death on their way down. Pretty much. Well,

1418
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 1: all right, so much worth you guys have any more thoughts,

1419
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:11,640
Speaker 1: any more theories? No, I think Yeah, I think it's

1420
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 1: an unfortunate accident, very very unfortunate. Um. Yeah, so don't

1421
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 1: try to fly around the world with first gen tech. Well,

1422
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:24,040
Speaker 1: and also don't throw away your trailing antenna. Yes, if

1423
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: they had that functioning radio, things would have turned out different. Yeah,

1424
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 1: that was a big mistake. Have been a hassle, but

1425
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,880
Speaker 1: it was worth it. Yeah. Alright, well, so much of

1426
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 1: that mystery. Another one down. You probably know if we

1427
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:37,840
Speaker 1: have a website or not, Well, yes we do. It's

1428
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 1: called Thinking Sideways podcast dot com, where you can download episodes,

1429
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: you can leave comments, you can check our links. We

1430
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:48,439
Speaker 1: always put a few links up for all of our mysteries. Uh.

1431
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:51,240
Speaker 1: If you find us on iTunes, where of course we are,

1432
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:53,639
Speaker 1: you can subscribe and leave us a review hopefully it'll

1433
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 1: be a nice review. And of course you can stream

1434
01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:59,080
Speaker 1: us in any one of a billion websites. We're on Facebook,

1435
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 1: so find us out there. You can like us uh

1436
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 1: and follow us. You can also join the group because

1437
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:07,799
Speaker 1: we have a Facebook group. Twitter rights that is thinking

1438
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:11,680
Speaker 1: Sideways without the g uh. And of course we have

1439
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 1: an email account, we really do. Yeah, thank you Sideways

1440
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 1: podcast at gmail. If you've got theories about Amelia or

1441
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 1: if you are Amelia in Fred about how to use email,

1442
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. What else, We've gotta sub Reddit. I'm not

1443
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:27,320
Speaker 1: sure how active that is right now, but it's fine.

1444
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:30,880
Speaker 1: It's there, Okay, keep joining and talking and joint talk. Yeah.

1445
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:33,080
Speaker 1: And last of all, if you want to support the show,

1446
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 1: we are on patreon dot com. That's the kind of

1447
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:38,200
Speaker 1: thing where it's kind of like you pledge a certain

1448
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 1: amount per episode. It's like run for the arts. Yeah,

1449
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 1: whatever you're comfortable with per We've also got the papal

1450
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:46,880
Speaker 1: and we've been putting up new merch a bunch of

1451
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:50,680
Speaker 1: on our website. Yeah, so anyway, not not not necessary,

1452
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 1: but if you feel like sure. Yeah. And stickers, Yeah,

1453
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 1: we've been selling a lot of those. Well I don't

1454
01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 1: know half a dozen anyway, So I guess it's patreon

1455
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 1: dot com slash thinking sideways if you want to find us,

1456
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 1: and the other links are on our website website. Ye.

1457
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 1: All right, Well that's it for this week. You guys

1458
01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:14,000
Speaker 1: have any final thoughts. I'm not gonna fly on my

1459
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 1: plane anywhere soon. Yeah, not over the ocean, that's for sure.

1460
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:18,679
Speaker 1: Let's take off, all right, hie guys,