WEBVTT - Coronavirus Creates Need for Novel Frugality

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<v Speaker 1>It's Monday, May eleven. I'm Oscar Ramirez from the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is your daily

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<v Speaker 1>coronavirus update. One of the most interesting aspects of the

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<v Speaker 1>coronavirus pandemic is how our everyday lives have changed. One

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<v Speaker 1>such thing is a move away from the culture of waste.

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<v Speaker 1>People are regrowing scallions and growing herbs at home, washing

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<v Speaker 1>and reusing ziploc bags and more. But while being this

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<v Speaker 1>frugal in the past was mostly rooted in saving money,

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<v Speaker 1>this time around it's a little different. There's a fear

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<v Speaker 1>of scarcity and also an effort to avoid unnecessary movement.

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<v Speaker 1>Meredith Haggarty, editor at Vox, joins us for the novel Frugality.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us, Meredith, I wanted to talk a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit about how our lives have changed because of

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<v Speaker 1>the current pandemic that we're going through. One of the

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<v Speaker 1>interesting things there's this new sense of frugality that is

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<v Speaker 1>set in for a lot of people. Anecdotally, you just

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<v Speaker 1>hear some of these stories, and even online you've been

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<v Speaker 1>seeing things about how people are growing green onion scallions

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<v Speaker 1>at their home so they don't have to get out

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<v Speaker 1>to the store so much. Myself. I've taken to rewashing

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<v Speaker 1>and reusing the little red plastic solo cups, and even

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<v Speaker 1>saving some of those plastics to go containers from take

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<v Speaker 1>out and things like that. We're kind of all getting

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<v Speaker 1>in this mode again. A lot of it is not

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily new, but maybe the circumstances of why we're doing

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<v Speaker 1>it is obviously new. So Meredith tell us a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about how frugality has creeped back into America. So

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I also I noticed a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>tweeting or talking about eating the ends of their bread

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<v Speaker 1>for the first time, or washing aluminum foil, which they

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<v Speaker 1>hadn't done previous. I have not done that yet, I have,

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<v Speaker 1>I've only just started doing that. I was not, I

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<v Speaker 1>have to admit, like a super frugal person myself previously.

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<v Speaker 1>But the thing that I thought was really interesting about

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<v Speaker 1>this behavior is that when I first started hearing about

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<v Speaker 1>it was from people who I knew, say, weren't necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>in a position of economic preparity. There obviously is a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of unrest and uncertainty about the future right now,

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<v Speaker 1>and everyone's a little freaked out, but it seemed like

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<v Speaker 1>these new behaviors weren't necessarily coming from a place of

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<v Speaker 1>will I be able to buy this stuff for my

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<v Speaker 1>family again? It came a lot from a place of

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<v Speaker 1>is it safe for me to go buy this for

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<v Speaker 1>my family again, or is it safe for me to

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<v Speaker 1>send somebody else to buy it, Or wouldn't it be

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<v Speaker 1>better to maybe get a little bit more out of

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<v Speaker 1>my bread, a little bit more out of my aluminum oil,

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit more out of my ziplock bags. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's what we're seeing people sort of embracing and realizing

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<v Speaker 1>what they had on their hands already. And you contrast

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<v Speaker 1>this with the kind of thought of frugality from years past,

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<v Speaker 1>or you know, your grandparents or other even culturally people

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<v Speaker 1>that had to have saved because they've gone through tough times.

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<v Speaker 1>They went through the Great Recession, they lived in a

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<v Speaker 1>country maybe where they didn't have a lot of stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>things like that. That's kind of where you think the

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<v Speaker 1>basis of it comes from. But you're right, everything is

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<v Speaker 1>different now, you know, with all of these stay at

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<v Speaker 1>home orders and people are genuinely freaked out sometimes about

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<v Speaker 1>going out into public and getting sick. You're just kind

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<v Speaker 1>of wanting to save as much as you can, just

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<v Speaker 1>to save yourself from being out there. So I talked

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<v Speaker 1>to an expert in for gality, Ronald Goldsmith, who had

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<v Speaker 1>studied it pre pandemic, and he had talked about how,

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<v Speaker 1>for the most part, there had been two types of frugality,

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<v Speaker 1>intrinsic and extrinsic. Intrinsic is just some people are naturally frugal.

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<v Speaker 1>They might be super wealthy, but they're still going to

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<v Speaker 1>save every takeout container no matter what. And there are

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<v Speaker 1>other people who are extrinsically frugal, and that's because of

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<v Speaker 1>the circumstances they find themselves in economically. For the most

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<v Speaker 1>what Mr. Oldsmith said to me was, they would like

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to be less frugal, but they don't

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<v Speaker 1>have the funds for it. And in this case, we're

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<v Speaker 1>seeing just sort of this moment where people who were

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<v Speaker 1>not intrinsically frugal are suddenly becoming extrinsically frugal, but not

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<v Speaker 1>because they don't have the money, but because they are

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<v Speaker 1>dealing with this unprecedent hented situation that we're all dealing

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<v Speaker 1>with right now. And it's crazy, because we invented this

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<v Speaker 1>whole industry of disposable products really a bunch of stuff

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned in the article. Diapers, cameras, contact lenses, the

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<v Speaker 1>plastic bags, the zip blog bags, all of this stuff

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<v Speaker 1>is just disposable things for us. And now even with

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<v Speaker 1>the ziplog bags, people are washing them and turning them

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<v Speaker 1>inside and in drying them so they can reason. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, these are all these things maybe so going

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<v Speaker 1>back to this getting out in the world just so

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<v Speaker 1>you don't have to re buy them again, and some

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<v Speaker 1>people like kind of that regret sets into It just

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<v Speaker 1>happened to me because I literally just ran out of

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<v Speaker 1>these gallon sized ziplock bags and I'm like, man, I

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<v Speaker 1>should have watched some of these this past week and

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<v Speaker 1>save those. Yeah, it's like when I don't have this anymore,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't have it in a way that I think

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<v Speaker 1>some people just hadn't really experienced in the same way before.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a strange time, but I think that cultural disposability

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<v Speaker 1>thing that's sort of the thing I really wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>get out in this piece too, is like America has

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<v Speaker 1>a materials culture and has four seventies some add years

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<v Speaker 1>at least, maybe more, and we've been encouraged through marketing

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<v Speaker 1>and through the way that things are made through planned obsolescens,

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<v Speaker 1>through disposability. Just to think of things as being able

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<v Speaker 1>to be thrown away, and that we constantly did the

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<v Speaker 1>new thing, that we're always being sold something else, and

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<v Speaker 1>that was good for marketers, that was good for companies.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not necessarily good for the environment. It's not necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>good for us. And more importantly, it's not necessarily necessary,

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<v Speaker 1>which I think is the thing that people often forgot.

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<v Speaker 1>I have always thrown aways ziplock bags, and I've only

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<v Speaker 1>just started rewashing them and just like, oh now I

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<v Speaker 1>still have zip block bags. Blot out small miracle. Talk

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<v Speaker 1>to me a little bit about the fear of scarcity

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<v Speaker 1>and panic buying, because we know we all remember the

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<v Speaker 1>stories right when this happened. Obviously, the toilet paper, paper, towels,

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<v Speaker 1>cleaning supplies, that was the first stuff to go. Right

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<v Speaker 1>now we're hearing about things with the food supply and

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<v Speaker 1>certain things might not be available. Tell me a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about that. So we're definitely seeing fears around the

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<v Speaker 1>supply chain. As someone who's reported on the supply chain

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<v Speaker 1>in the past, I've never heard people talk about it

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<v Speaker 1>in conversation quite as much as we are these days,

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<v Speaker 1>there's the fear that all these meat plants are being

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<v Speaker 1>shut down, which they probably should be for safety. There

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<v Speaker 1>are fears about toilet paper and Clorox wipes and all

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<v Speaker 1>these things that the supply chain, because of the way

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<v Speaker 1>it's structured, is not able to just get up and

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<v Speaker 1>out to us at the speed that we're currently demanding it.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think that instills some people just a real

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<v Speaker 1>fear of like even if I go to the supermarket,

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<v Speaker 1>if I get myself out and I go out, there

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<v Speaker 1>will there be the thing that I need there, which

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<v Speaker 1>is an unusual thought in America before the pandemic. This

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<v Speaker 1>is actually one of the aspects of these where I

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<v Speaker 1>the most was like, well, when I have started doing

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<v Speaker 1>these things, I am doing it because I'm afraid it's

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<v Speaker 1>not going to be there when I get to the supermarket,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I am afraid of scarcity personally. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>that we saw that same fear with people buying up

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<v Speaker 1>all the toilet paper immediately. As we know coronavirus is

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<v Speaker 1>not a gastro intestinal disease, it doesn't really make sense

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<v Speaker 1>that we all went out and bought toilet paper, but

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<v Speaker 1>that is what people did, and that leads to shortage,

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<v Speaker 1>and that leads to this fear of future shortages. Just

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<v Speaker 1>the realization that we might live in a really interconnected

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<v Speaker 1>and impressive global system previously, but that's not necessarily always

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<v Speaker 1>the case when things are changing so rapidly and so terrifyingly.

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<v Speaker 1>Definitely interesting times with what's going on, And one of

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<v Speaker 1>these things that's interested me so much is how we're

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<v Speaker 1>adapting and changing to all of this. So I want

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<v Speaker 1>to use the term you coin for the article. It's

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<v Speaker 1>us so interesting how this novel coronavirus has instilled this

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<v Speaker 1>novel rugality in a lot of people. Meredith Haggarty, editor

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<v Speaker 1>at Vox, thank you very much for joining us. Thank

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<v Speaker 1>you so much for having me. I'm Oscar Ramirez and

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<v Speaker 1>this has been your daily coronavirus update. Don't forget effort

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<v Speaker 1>today's big news stories. You can check me out of

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<v Speaker 1>the Daily Dive podcast every Monday through Friday, So follow

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<v Speaker 1>us in I Heart radio or wherever you get your

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<v Speaker 1>podcast