Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.
Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie,
Speaker 1: are you prepared for the end of the world, because, uh,
Speaker 1: it's coming apparently according to some people. All Right, the
Speaker 1: mind calendar, Yeah, there's the mind calendar thing that says, basically,
Speaker 1: this December, the world's gonna end. Then we have, of course,
Speaker 1: the rapture predictions that predictions that hold that the world
Speaker 1: way will have actually ended by the time this publishes.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if this will pub This may
Speaker 1: publish in a post rapture world. Well, I guess you
Speaker 1: haven't seen my bumper sticker over here that when the
Speaker 1: rapture comes, this podcast booth will be evacuated. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we's been hanging here for We won't be here because
Speaker 1: because we can't. I can't do it by myself. I'm
Speaker 1: sticking around. I've actually ordered a rapture proof suit on
Speaker 1: over the internet. Um, it's like line with lead and
Speaker 1: bubble wrap. Each bubble and the bubble wrap contains a
Speaker 1: tiny occultist icon that helps protect my soul from leaving
Speaker 1: my body in the case of the rapture. This way
Speaker 1: I can stick around and document the events. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that's probably gonna work, just in case. And if
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen, well then I just spent a lot
Speaker 1: of money in a weird suit. Wouldn't be the first
Speaker 1: You wouldn't be the first person either, Right. It turns
Speaker 1: out that the end days have been a concept that
Speaker 1: that predate Christ. Right, because we typically when we can
Speaker 1: talk about end days or the rapture apocalypse, we usually
Speaker 1: think about it being mired in religion. This concept. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's pretty I mean, the whole Book of
Speaker 1: Revelations thing and all, it's crazy imagery. I mean that
Speaker 1: that is that's certainly into Western audiences, is the predominant idea.
Speaker 1: Like I remember growing up and and I was when
Speaker 1: my family lived up in Newfoundland, Canada. We had we
Speaker 1: attended this small shirt I remember that the preacher talking
Speaker 1: one day about like the end times we're gonna come.
Speaker 1: There was going to be this huge war between the
Speaker 1: forces of good and evil and we would be called
Speaker 1: upon to fight in that war. And I remember being
Speaker 1: really thrown back by that. And after such, I was
Speaker 1: asking my Mom and Dad. I was like, like, is
Speaker 1: that for real? Or we're gonna have to Am I
Speaker 1: gonna have to battle in this? Am I going to
Speaker 1: suit up? Or what? Yeah? That sounds it sounds kind
Speaker 1: of awful. I'd rather not do that. And they were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: don't worry about that. Where they like it's a metaphor No,
Speaker 1: they were just kind of like, I don't worry about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna happen. Okay, So all right, obviously today
Speaker 1: we're talking about apocalypse, the many apocalypses that have come
Speaker 1: and gone and never actually occurred, right, and we're actually
Speaker 1: going to talk to right right well who knows, who knows?
Speaker 1: All the matrix were just like hooked up to some
Speaker 1: sort of alien apocalypse right now. And we'll get into
Speaker 1: some of these ideas too, because because in many cases
Speaker 1: the apocalypse uh prediction doesn't come to pass, but that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean people give up on that prediction. So we'll
Speaker 1: get into exactly how that works on a cognitive level. Yep,
Speaker 1: yep um. But we should also talk about the apocalypse.
Speaker 1: It's not just in terms of okay, but this is
Speaker 1: the religious thing that we think about, but also um
Speaker 1: asteroids nuclear winters, um, you know, natural phenomena that happens,
Speaker 1: and people will sit there and say, okay, this must
Speaker 1: be a sign, right and this has been happening forever
Speaker 1: since there have been humans right right there. There are
Speaker 1: a number of different apocalyptic scenarios. You of course, have
Speaker 1: the spiritual ones, like you said, they're cosmological one. Some
Speaker 1: of which have a little more of validity than others,
Speaker 1: like the idea of a meteor comment hitting the Earth
Speaker 1: and causing extreme damage wiping out civilizations. Obviously that has
Speaker 1: occurred before in the past, not within human history, but
Speaker 1: I mean nothing on the scale enough to wipe us
Speaker 1: out as a species, but that is it's a possibility.
Speaker 1: Unlike some of the other weirder things that are ideas
Speaker 1: that have populated on the Internet, such as like planet
Speaker 1: X colliding with the with Earth planetary alignment scenarios that
Speaker 1: end up, you know, wiping everything off the face of
Speaker 1: the planet. Things of that nature are a lot more
Speaker 1: far fetched, but are at least based in uh, in
Speaker 1: actual science at some level. You exaggerated uh. And then
Speaker 1: and then there of course economic predictions. You don't have
Speaker 1: to go far to tune into some economic doom and
Speaker 1: gloom these days. And granted, economists predicting the future of
Speaker 1: global economies is a far different kettle of fish than
Speaker 1: um a guy in the street corner telling you about
Speaker 1: when the demonic or UFO invasion is happening. But still
Speaker 1: it's it's very much a prediction of things going really
Speaker 1: really bad in a very catastrophic manner with dire consequences
Speaker 1: that people will buy into with their fear. Well, and
Speaker 1: I think that we can't help but look over our
Speaker 1: shoulder and see what might be coming at us or
Speaker 1: try to predict that. And I was just thinking about
Speaker 1: the panel that I heard on Cryptography and the World Sciences. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, and uh, the guy who was retired,
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was c I A, but
Speaker 1: he was sitting there saying, this is actually a really
Speaker 1: big issue, the security issue online, because if certain people
Speaker 1: wanted to, they could bring down the U. S. Economy
Speaker 1: and they could basically like close down the grid, closed
Speaker 1: down the economy, and we would have something like thirty
Speaker 1: days where we could exist in a sort of peaceful
Speaker 1: manner before all hell broke loose and civilization just sort
Speaker 1: of collapse on itself. So you hear this, you know,
Speaker 1: And it's not just this guy, it's just even someone
Speaker 1: like say Stephen Hawking, right, who couldn't help but say,
Speaker 1: you know, hey, I'm going to sound the alarm here.
Speaker 1: Quit talking to the aliens. Um. Yeah, if there anything
Speaker 1: like us, they're jerks, you know. They they're really into hierarchies,
Speaker 1: um I and b um. You know, if they do exist,
Speaker 1: they're probably much more complex than we are in advance.
Speaker 1: So what will that lead to our doom? Yeah, Jeff
Speaker 1: Bell Gold, him and Will Smith are not going to
Speaker 1: be able to fly up there and just stick a
Speaker 1: disk in the mothership to shut it all down. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be a far different situation. Yeah. Technology has has
Speaker 1: played a partner a number of predictions. There's, of course,
Speaker 1: the the y U K's situation that did not come
Speaker 1: to pass, but that had people heading for the hills
Speaker 1: and stocking up on water and beans. If you have
Speaker 1: a chance, check out the House Stuffworks dot COM's article
Speaker 1: UM two thousand and twelve Apocalypse survival guide. That's one
Speaker 1: I wrote that kind of humorously takes you through ten
Speaker 1: of the sort of out there in many cases scenarios
Speaker 1: for how the world is going to end, uh this December. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and some of those are like there's yeah, there's
Speaker 1: one based in computer programs trying to predict the course
Speaker 1: of events, and and people pointing that these computers have
Speaker 1: dictated exactly when the world is gonna end, and it
Speaker 1: lines up in two twelve. You know, so we just
Speaker 1: got a clue and you know, got an inkling of
Speaker 1: what they were up to. Yeah. So you you know, technological, economic, spiritual, political,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's like anything that any kind of movement
Speaker 1: or or system that is big enough to fail with
Speaker 1: dire consequences. People are uh and and have been predicting
Speaker 1: a failure for ages. Yeah. And before we talk about
Speaker 1: some good examples of apocalypse is um or you know
Speaker 1: in the past that people have thought would come to pass,
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit why we're hardwired to like
Speaker 1: a really good apocalypse story. Why does it appeal to us? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because obviously we keep doing these these mental circles for
Speaker 1: a reason, and it's because our brains are are central
Speaker 1: to it. Yeah. And there's this in this story of
Speaker 1: the apocalypse or is a promise of renewal, right, and
Speaker 1: the yeah, I mean it's sort of like the phoenix
Speaker 1: from the flame. Um. It's an impetus to right our wrongs. Right.
Speaker 1: And there's a moral code in some of these which
Speaker 1: says that you know, if I live my life right,
Speaker 1: then in the rapture, Um, you know, I will be
Speaker 1: spared from the scorched earth. And speaking of scorched earth,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if you're talking in secular terms,
Speaker 1: you could even say that, uh, in something like the military,
Speaker 1: which has scorched earth policies sometimes and applied to warfare.
Speaker 1: If you take a country down, a community down to
Speaker 1: the studs, you're scorching the earth. There's this idea that
Speaker 1: you can then fill that void with a renewal for
Speaker 1: these people. Yeah, right, besides dominating them to a certain degree. Um.
Speaker 1: So I mean you can you see it in all
Speaker 1: different areas. Um. But again, it is a sort of
Speaker 1: a cathartic experience, and I think that that's why people
Speaker 1: are gravitate to it so much, or some people do. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So many of these systems involve a like a system
Speaker 1: that is flawed to its core ultimately fails, and when
Speaker 1: it fails, that gives us the room to create a
Speaker 1: new system. Be that you know, typically we're talking about
Speaker 1: a civilization. It's like humans for ages realizing that the
Speaker 1: that the systems they create or the systems they inhabit
Speaker 1: are not quite perfect or not completely to their liking.
Speaker 1: And surely if this system were to run its course
Speaker 1: and have enough rope to hang itself, we'd be able
Speaker 1: to build some new system that obviously wouldn't be horrible.
Speaker 1: Well to your point, um Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts
Speaker 1: actually talks about an Assyrian clay tablet that dates back
Speaker 1: to b C. And it was unearthed and it bears
Speaker 1: the words our Earth is degenerate. In these latter days,
Speaker 1: there are signs that the world is speedily coming to
Speaker 1: an end. Bribery and corruption are common. Okay, So BC
Speaker 1: people are like, you know what, this is, this planet,
Speaker 1: this thing that's going on here on Earth, it's just
Speaker 1: not working out. Surely it will end. Surely the Second
Speaker 1: Coming is at hand, right yeah. Yeah. And it's just
Speaker 1: one example of you know, perception of moral decay in society.
Speaker 1: But you know, there's there are a ton of them.
Speaker 1: Um Romans saw the a D. Seventy nine eruption of
Speaker 1: Mount Vesuvius as a sign that society was about to
Speaker 1: get its kick in the pants, um when POMPEII went
Speaker 1: up in smoke, or excuse me, when Pompey was actually
Speaker 1: buried in smoke. As the eight said, again, it's no
Speaker 1: country for old men, right. The We're always looking at
Speaker 1: the world around them and seeing forces that are endangered
Speaker 1: in them rising up, and the end systems that are
Speaker 1: not working all around them. And patterns always patterns, right yeah,
Speaker 1: because we are brains, as we've discussed before, are all
Speaker 1: about finding patterns. We have to navigate this world of
Speaker 1: fixed and movable objects, of symbols, of information, of of
Speaker 1: social systems, and we have to navigate all of this.
Speaker 1: So we need a brain. We've we've evolved to have
Speaker 1: a brain that is ideal for surviving this environment. Well.
Speaker 1: And also think about Haley's comment, right, there's another example
Speaker 1: something happening um getting a lot of press and people
Speaker 1: not quite understanding what the impact, what they think the
Speaker 1: impact will be Haley's common only in this nineteen ten
Speaker 1: people believe that the commons tail contained a gas that
Speaker 1: would impregnate the atmosphere and possibly snuff out all life
Speaker 1: on planet Earth, and they began to sell like all
Speaker 1: sorts of goofy little relics to help people survived this event.
Speaker 1: You know. So again, yes, people, you can't help it,
Speaker 1: right if it depends on how much you know about
Speaker 1: an event. And then later we have Heaven's Gate. He
Speaker 1: believed that the comment is going to is actually signals
Speaker 1: that the UFO is coming to take us away, or
Speaker 1: at least take this small selection of believers away, right,
Speaker 1: which had a very very sad ending, right, I mean
Speaker 1: this this was this is the case where they actually
Speaker 1: all poisoned themselves, Is that right? Yeah, they all committed
Speaker 1: suicide and uh. And the leader he actually, um, he
Speaker 1: also had himself surgically castrated. I don't know why that
Speaker 1: was a prerequisite for the alien ship, but you know,
Speaker 1: dude had some issues. Seriously, It's not funny, but just
Speaker 1: another good example is the Seekers, right, going back to aliens. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the Seekers are quite an interesting story. This is a
Speaker 1: small Chicago area cult and whose members thought that they
Speaker 1: were communicating with aliens. Uh. It's specifically communicating with Sanan Sananda,
Speaker 1: who they believed was the like a cosmic incarnation of Jesus. Uh.
Speaker 1: And the leader and all this was this, uh, this
Speaker 1: lady Dorothy Martin, and so she she had. She was
Speaker 1: basically a housewife, like she was not. You know, there's
Speaker 1: nothing really spectacular about her life up to this point.
Speaker 1: But then she picked up a little, uh, theosophy, she
Speaker 1: picked up a little scientology. Yeah, she was all about
Speaker 1: the dynatics, right, yeah. Yeah. And then by the way,
Speaker 1: theosophy is kind of like a found in eighteen seventy five.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a combination of some elements of Buddhism
Speaker 1: and Brahminism and uh, some some reincarnation throwing them with
Speaker 1: some spiritual evolution and uh and there's some spinoffs, right,
Speaker 1: like the High Faith, although I don't think that they
Speaker 1: subscribed to I'm well, I'm not sure. I know. Rain
Speaker 1: Wilson is uh this one. Oh I didn't hear that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he has a really cool site called Soul Pancake, I believe,
Speaker 1: and it's all about like reaching young audiences, getting them
Speaker 1: talking and discussing like spiritual ideas. But anyway, so Dorothy
Speaker 1: Martin fifty four years old, um oak Park, and she
Speaker 1: suddenly she starts communicating with these with these aliens, and
Speaker 1: she learns from them. She says that December, the day
Speaker 1: of the Seas are gonna rise. The continent's gonna split,
Speaker 1: and flying saucers are gonna swoop down to the rescue
Speaker 1: of her and the believers. Uh and and they it
Speaker 1: was even to the point where everybody gathered for this.
Speaker 1: People were removing zippers from their garnaments and by the way, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: removing the wire from their bras because supposedly that would
Speaker 1: interfere with the spaceship or or perhaps it would just
Speaker 1: slow slow your your journey down as you tried to
Speaker 1: make it through security to board the space ships. She
Speaker 1: divined this, by the way, from automatic writing, which I
Speaker 1: thought was funny because that's sort of old fashioned to me.
Speaker 1: Like that, to me, that's like the Silences and Turn
Speaker 1: of the Century, sort of kind of like table raising gig.
Speaker 1: So obviously the date came and went, and everyone was
Speaker 1: still here. The world was still continuing, uh, all around
Speaker 1: the albums, and they kind of face to I mean,
Speaker 1: they did face a crisis of faith here. What do
Speaker 1: you do when you've come to believe that the world
Speaker 1: is gonna end, when you've invested, when you've done this stuff,
Speaker 1: like uh said, well, I'm not I'm never gonna have
Speaker 1: to pay this credit card off, or well I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna need a car again. I'm gonna sell that and
Speaker 1: support this, uh, this group or cult that I'm that
Speaker 1: I've become a part of it, become Yeah, you're committed
Speaker 1: to this idea. Um, if not completely, then substantially. And
Speaker 1: then when this core part of your belief system fails
Speaker 1: on you, what do you do? Well, We're gonna take
Speaker 1: a quick break and we'll find out what you do.
Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by Intel, the sponsors
Speaker 1: of Tomorrow and the Discovery Channel. At Intel, we believe
Speaker 1: curiosity is the spark which drives innovation. Join us at
Speaker 1: curiosity dot com and explore the answers to life's questions.
Speaker 1: All right, we're back, just like we said we would.
Speaker 1: That was not a false prediction, came to pass as
Speaker 1: the prophecy foretold. We have returned, and we are going
Speaker 1: to discuss the question of what happens when you predict something,
Speaker 1: ideally the end of the world or some sort of
Speaker 1: major spiritual reckoning. What happens when you predicted and it
Speaker 1: doesn't come to pass. Well, when you say, oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: this was all you know, Bally who this was a mistake. UM,
Speaker 1: I need to reassess my life and perhaps get my
Speaker 1: job back. When wouldn't that be sort of logical? Well,
Speaker 1: that would that would be the logical. But like we said,
Speaker 1: you've already invested a lot in this idea. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: quit my job, I've sold my car. Yeah, and uh.
Speaker 1: As this was happening though with the seekers back in
Speaker 1: the fifties, they were out there preaching the message. They
Speaker 1: really believed this. They were not trying to hoard the
Speaker 1: afterlife and uh and redemption and about board the UFO.
Speaker 1: They were not holding those seats for themselves. Apparently there
Speaker 1: was plenty of seating available and so they were spreading
Speaker 1: the word and uh. One individual that heard this and
Speaker 1: was particularly fascinated was a Stanford University psychologist, Leon Festing,
Speaker 1: and so he and some of his colleagues decided to
Speaker 1: infiltrate the group, which I love. This is great, right,
Speaker 1: because how else are you going to be able to
Speaker 1: observe people who, you know, what passes over their face
Speaker 1: went December twenty first comes and goes yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: on another level, it's kind of jerky, you know, because
Speaker 1: it's like you're kind of you your way into their
Speaker 1: midst and saying that you believe what they believe. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like if you you know, started going to uh
Speaker 1: sports games with somebody and then you're really getting into them,
Speaker 1: into the into the game, and you're like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: go falcons or whatever. And then they were then found
Speaker 1: when they were like, actually, I don't really like the falcons,
Speaker 1: but I've been studying you this wholtime. Yes, you're right,
Speaker 1: you're right, but but but from from an experiment, from
Speaker 1: from research perspective, from a research perspective, this was this
Speaker 1: was an irresistible situation, a real deal. Yeah. Gave them
Speaker 1: the chance to to infiltrate this group, study from the
Speaker 1: inside how they were thinking about the end of the world,
Speaker 1: and then study how they behaved once their prediction did
Speaker 1: not come to pass. Yeah, And so Fassenger found something
Speaker 1: out that was pretty fascinating that when this did come
Speaker 1: to pass. Well, first of all, Dorothy Martin started writing
Speaker 1: again really quickly, right we assume, with her automatic writing,
Speaker 1: and she received a message that said, hey, wow, the
Speaker 1: aliens have spared Earth because we are so committed that
Speaker 1: they decided, you know, never mind, we're not going to
Speaker 1: destroy you, which sort of restored people's faith in in
Speaker 1: in what was going on right I I think the
Speaker 1: message was going to be the Aliens saying, hey, we
Speaker 1: hit traffic, so we're gonna be a little late. Um,
Speaker 1: someone has metal on, take it off. It's totally slowing
Speaker 1: down the our arrival here. But that that's what was
Speaker 1: so amazing, that that people would double down on their
Speaker 1: beliefs in the face of of data that was basically
Speaker 1: telling them that their belief system was wrong. Yeah, because again,
Speaker 1: you've already invested so much in are you're just gonna
Speaker 1: give up? It's I The podcast that we're recording right
Speaker 1: after this one is going to deal with worts fandom
Speaker 1: and as I can't help but wonder if it's a
Speaker 1: similar case, like what do you do when you believe
Speaker 1: in a sports team absolutely and you support them and
Speaker 1: then they fail on you, and they fail on you
Speaker 1: again and again and again. Well, and I know we're
Speaker 1: not doing that podcast right now, but I will tell
Speaker 1: you that a lot of times people will blame it
Speaker 1: on bad luck or on the other team, or instead
Speaker 1: of actually looking at the raw data and saying, my
Speaker 1: team is not so good so you can't help, but
Speaker 1: but seek out some sort of explanation that squares with
Speaker 1: your idea, your original idea, and that's what Fastinger based
Speaker 1: cognitive dissonance on correct correct. What's it reminds one of
Speaker 1: the situation with Harold camping Um, the the current big
Speaker 1: rapture scenarios that of course had a lot of play
Speaker 1: in the summer. This was May one, right, yes, and
Speaker 1: and of course it didn't it didn't happen. But he
Speaker 1: immediately said, well, let me revise. I've done the math again,
Speaker 1: and actually, yes, this this date was correct, but it
Speaker 1: was a spiritual judgment and not like the actual judgment.
Speaker 1: So it was like, are the file was settled and
Speaker 1: stamped by heavenly authorities and then then the actual apocalypse
Speaker 1: just explore exploratory committee. Right, they had. But basically he's
Speaker 1: in one swoop. He is, he's quantifying what has already happened,
Speaker 1: and and he's not backing down from his previous claim,
Speaker 1: but he's also excusing away the fact that the world
Speaker 1: didn't end a lot, and he's bumping that date up
Speaker 1: to when it will supposedly actually end, which of course
Speaker 1: he had done in the past. I mean, unfortunately for him,
Speaker 1: they didn't get as many contributions after that point. They've
Speaker 1: they've received less money from from their supporters, but they
Speaker 1: still have supporters, and of course this guy still supports
Speaker 1: the idea completely. But yeah, even in the face of
Speaker 1: the original prediction not coming true, they've they've simply doubled down,
Speaker 1: revised it a little. And apparently this is common to
Speaker 1: when it when a when a when an end of
Speaker 1: the world event does not come to pass, it's spiritualized.
Speaker 1: So it's it's suddenly, oh, it didn't take place in
Speaker 1: the real world, but it took place in a spiritual means,
Speaker 1: or there's some sort of other message. Uh. So you
Speaker 1: come up with ways to reinterpret what has happened so
Speaker 1: that the movement can continue, and in some cases you
Speaker 1: end up splitting off and becoming you know, the followers
Speaker 1: end up having to really shift gears and becoming a
Speaker 1: slightly different faith. Right, which again I always think that
Speaker 1: it's interesting this concept that we are creating our reality
Speaker 1: every single second, right and then stall just our individual perception. So, yes,
Speaker 1: there are some things that are are constants, like like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the stars in the moon and the sky,
Speaker 1: but how you interpret what happens underneath the sky is
Speaker 1: completely up to that individual um and there was another
Speaker 1: thing that I read to about cognitive dissonance, and they
Speaker 1: were actually saying that, you know, apocalyptic thinking. It's not
Speaker 1: unlike people who are skeptical of global warming. Are people
Speaker 1: who are very ardent about the existence of global warming,
Speaker 1: and that the problem here is not that people don't
Speaker 1: have the right data. It's not it's that it's being
Speaker 1: framed from a how use perspective and not a data appreciate.
Speaker 1: You end up with emotions intertwined in there, and reasoning
Speaker 1: ends up intertwined with that emotion. Even something like global
Speaker 1: warming comes down to. Uh, you end up with the
Speaker 1: emotional political ideas fueled fueling into that personal uh feelings
Speaker 1: of guilt or responsibility become a part of that as well. UH.
Speaker 1: And just to recap cognitive dissonance, which we we've covered
Speaker 1: in the past, UM, this is a situation in the
Speaker 1: mind that arises when there's conflict between two opposing thoughts,
Speaker 1: are between expectations and reality. As we've covered before. The
Speaker 1: a really good example of two opposing thoughts would be
Speaker 1: if you if you completely held the belief that, say,
Speaker 1: homosexual emplices pulses were sinful, but then you knew but
Speaker 1: then you felt homosexual impulse. So like the two ideas
Speaker 1: are are really conflict one another. So how do you
Speaker 1: end up with this cognitive dissonance where the thing you
Speaker 1: believe is not the thing that you believe? And then uh,
Speaker 1: when it comes to expect ptations in reality that is
Speaker 1: you know, that is like the situation we're talking about here.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like if the if an individual sets
Speaker 1: out to become a rock star and doesn't become a
Speaker 1: rock star, Um, their expectations and the reality are are
Speaker 1: are clashing. So the end with this cognitive dissonance and uh,
Speaker 1: and and this is the situation with someone who thinks
Speaker 1: the world is gonna end and then it doesn't. And
Speaker 1: the classic example is uh that we keep coming back
Speaker 1: around too. Is primordial ancestor in the bush, you know,
Speaker 1: walking around in the jungle, their predators or enemies around.
Speaker 1: And then there's a sound in the bushes. Now, this
Speaker 1: could be one of two things. Basically you can break
Speaker 1: it down to either that that the sound in the
Speaker 1: bushes that is a threat, a real threat, or it's nothing. Okay,
Speaker 1: So how do we behave when we when we we
Speaker 1: hear that? I mean, well, how do we behave when
Speaker 1: something jumps out at us, or when suddenly there's a
Speaker 1: car on the highway where we didn't see one earlier. Um,
Speaker 1: when there's a knock at the door when we're not
Speaker 1: expecting someone. But you don't pause to sit there and deliberate,
Speaker 1: right right, say okay, what what rationally is going on
Speaker 1: in here? Because you can basically make two types of
Speaker 1: errors incognition. Here, you can make what is called a
Speaker 1: type one error or a false positive, and this is
Speaker 1: when you believe something is real when it is not. So.
Speaker 1: This is, for instance, a friend jumps out at a
Speaker 1: mon at you a monster constume and you realize, oh,
Speaker 1: it's just a monster costume. It's not a monster. But
Speaker 1: you react initially like it's a monster and maybe punch
Speaker 1: them or apply a few karate chops now. And then
Speaker 1: there's a type two error in cognition, and this is
Speaker 1: a false negative, and this is believing something is not
Speaker 1: real when it is. So. This is when a monster
Speaker 1: jumps out at you and you think it's your friends
Speaker 1: in a monster mask and you're like, hey, buddy, needed
Speaker 1: to go for a high five, and then you get eaten.
Speaker 1: So that's a scenario that not so good, right, So,
Speaker 1: if you can see the type to error in cognition,
Speaker 1: the false negative, that is the scenario most likely to
Speaker 1: result in death if you're dealing with some sort of surprise,
Speaker 1: that could be fatal. Okay, so it makes sense that
Speaker 1: you pull out more stock in the type one like
Speaker 1: people don't probably be more willing to make that error
Speaker 1: than the type the type one error. It's like, worst
Speaker 1: case scenario Type one error is you just feel kind
Speaker 1: of stupid because you were scared by something that wasn't real.
Speaker 1: Type two worst case scenario, you were eaten by a monster.
Speaker 1: So which do you think, Uh, nature selects four. Which
Speaker 1: do you think has been the has proven the evolutionary advantage?
Speaker 1: The type one that is the default error with the
Speaker 1: human mind. So, so take that situation with your friend
Speaker 1: and the monster mask, then extrapolate that to civilization wide
Speaker 1: events and too large human created systems and perceived systems.
Speaker 1: So the idea that a meteorite could hit the earth
Speaker 1: and destroy everybody, Um, we're we're incredibly likely to make
Speaker 1: a type one error and so and and prepare for
Speaker 1: the worst. There and then that breaks down in the
Speaker 1: spiritual and mythic realm as well, we often end up
Speaker 1: making this type one error where we're more likely to
Speaker 1: believe the imagined thing because if if it doesn't come
Speaker 1: to pass, well we just feel a little foolish. Then
Speaker 1: we laugh, right, And as we've discussed in the past,
Speaker 1: that's where we get the whole of benign violation theory
Speaker 1: of laughter and humor, the idea that when we realized
Speaker 1: it's something that we thought was it was a threat
Speaker 1: isn't real. After we have made that type one error,
Speaker 1: we just go ah ha, And that's our our way
Speaker 1: of of letting everyone around us know that that was
Speaker 1: just a dude in the monster mask and not an
Speaker 1: actual monster, right, right, you get the release, you know, regardless.
Speaker 1: So speaking of benign violation theory and uh, and you
Speaker 1: having brought up the article that you wrote about how
Speaker 1: to deal with an apocalypse or several different types of apocalypse, Um,
Speaker 1: let's talk about zombie apocalypse. Oh yeah, yeah, So this
Speaker 1: is an interesting one that instantly comes to mind because
Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's everywhere. The zombie thing will not
Speaker 1: die no matter how many Yeah, it just keeps crawling
Speaker 1: and lurching and sometimes you're running ahead. So we have
Speaker 1: things like The Walking Dead on TV is like it
Speaker 1: premed see season two premiered, it was like huge, everybody
Speaker 1: was watching it. I mean you just look around, Your
Speaker 1: zombies are everywhere, and why Well, it's a it's another
Speaker 1: apocalyptics and area, not one that most, if anyone, really
Speaker 1: believes in, unless zombies are somehow tied into your particular
Speaker 1: religious view of the rapture. And you know, maybe it is.
Speaker 1: But for the most part, this is like a purely
Speaker 1: fictional idea that we're just obsessed with what we we like.
Speaker 1: The part of our brains that love apocalypse and and
Speaker 1: are more likely to buy into apocalypse. We we can't
Speaker 1: help but think about this scenario, and I think it's
Speaker 1: really interesting to sort of break down Hawaii. That is.
Speaker 1: Chuck Closterman had a bit uh belief. This came out
Speaker 1: last year, um around the same time that the first
Speaker 1: season of The Walking Dead came out, and uh, and
Speaker 1: he had some interesting thoughts in his article my Zombie
Speaker 1: myself by modern life feels rather undead and he said, Uh,
Speaker 1: every zombie war is a war of attrition. It's always
Speaker 1: the numbers game, and it's more repetitive than complex. In
Speaker 1: other words, zombie killing is philosophically similar to reading and
Speaker 1: deleting four work emails on a Monday morning, or filling
Speaker 1: out paperwork that only generates more paperwork, or following Twitter
Speaker 1: goss about of obligation, or performing tedious to ask in
Speaker 1: which the only true risk is being consumed by the avalanche.
Speaker 1: The principal downside to any zombie attack is that the
Speaker 1: zombies will never stop coming. The principal downsound downside of
Speaker 1: life if you will never be finished with whatever it
Speaker 1: is you do. So that was his kind of take
Speaker 1: on on why the modern audience is so into the
Speaker 1: zombie idea my own thinking about it, because I find
Speaker 1: zombies interesting if even if the idea is a little
Speaker 1: played out at this point, but I can't help but
Speaker 1: think a large part of it is because the zombie
Speaker 1: is the in the same way that apocalypse scenarios appeal
Speaker 1: to us on kind of a a liberation frontiersman, uh standpoint,
Speaker 1: and you know that's like, oh, the world comes to
Speaker 1: an end, and now I'm just it's just me and
Speaker 1: my survival skills against nature. And even though that's a
Speaker 1: battle that most of us are not prepared for at all,
Speaker 1: um or we're certainly not as prepared for as we
Speaker 1: might think we would be. Um, it's it's there's something
Speaker 1: romantic about it. You know. It's kind of like that
Speaker 1: whole what if I were to leave everything I own
Speaker 1: and just drive off into the sunset. Well, and it's
Speaker 1: a safe place to play out your fears, right because
Speaker 1: about penang and violation theory. You have zombies, you probably
Speaker 1: can outrun them, right and uh even though uh probably
Speaker 1: for every five you kill, there's another ten that pop
Speaker 1: up like a hide your head, much like Chuck Clusterman
Speaker 1: was saying with emails, Um, you know, it's it's something that,
Speaker 1: um that you can still battle against. Um, it's not
Speaker 1: the real apocalypse right in the zombies themselves. I mean,
Speaker 1: so many of the things that we fear in modern
Speaker 1: life are rather ethically complex, like the idea, like even
Speaker 1: if it's something as simple as crime or terrorism, I
Speaker 1: mean not these are not simple. But these it's an example,
Speaker 1: like crime or terrorism, for example, those are complex, um situations,
Speaker 1: and you can't just but but but with zombies, it's
Speaker 1: rather simple. The zombie is an undead monster, and if
Speaker 1: it comes at you, you can shoot it in the
Speaker 1: head or you can hit it with a baseball bat
Speaker 1: and then wham, one part of that problem is solved.
Speaker 1: Life is rarely as simple as that. So there's I
Speaker 1: think there's a fantasy in your life becoming that kind
Speaker 1: of conflict where there's a clear cut solution. And uh, well,
Speaker 1: I mean and for some people, I mean there's something
Speaker 1: attractive about the idea that that violence is that kind
Speaker 1: of a solution. Well, it's ethical killing, right, because they're
Speaker 1: already dead, and I mean you're you're just trying to survive, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can sort of like walk the masculine um war
Speaker 1: dog inside you without actually having to um feast yourself
Speaker 1: on scenes of human violence and deprivation. Yeah, or or
Speaker 1: or as a feminist, you can take up arms and
Speaker 1: battle against zombies and go on to sustain life of
Speaker 1: the human rights, and you do have to worry with
Speaker 1: these ethical concerns of murder and uh in self defense.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I'm sure you're aware of this,
Speaker 1: but in Atlanta and in other cities, there is going
Speaker 1: to be a zombie five k I believe in February
Speaker 1: I had forgotten about that. Actually yeah, yeah, um, so
Speaker 1: you're gonna shamble in it. That was my question because
Speaker 1: I was like, is this twenty eight days later zombies
Speaker 1: where they're you know, they're able to learn and they
Speaker 1: get really fast. Because I really don't want someone to
Speaker 1: tackle me and start drooling brains or fake brains all
Speaker 1: over me. Yeah, I know that's weird for that to
Speaker 1: be bothersome, but um but I don't mind. If they're
Speaker 1: just kind of shuffling after me, that could be fun. Well,
Speaker 1: they do a walk here every year, or they have
Speaker 1: for the last several years where um, like a bunch
Speaker 1: of people will gather in zombie makeup, generally on like
Speaker 1: a Friday afternoon. So it's I mean, I've never is
Speaker 1: this different from the Little Five Points Parade? Yes, this
Speaker 1: is different. A Little five Points Parade is a it's
Speaker 1: a cool, little local Halloween parade that we have that's uh,
Speaker 1: that I hope to go to again this year. It's
Speaker 1: kind of disorganized, but not like zombie disorganized. Uh, but
Speaker 1: it's pretty wonderful. Actually, it's pretty wonderful. That's what makes
Speaker 1: it so so wonderful. It's kind of disorganized. It's it's
Speaker 1: not like this huge, hugely thought out parade that it's
Speaker 1: just and it's not like just you know, spontaneous either
Speaker 1: it's there's some degree of planning, but it's pretty loose
Speaker 1: and fun. It's like legions of zombies and pirates. And yeah,
Speaker 1: so the zombie Walk is something slightly different where people
Speaker 1: dress of the zombies and sort of shamble across town
Speaker 1: on an afternoon. But okay, well, so Holly Fry of
Speaker 1: pop stuff is actually training for the well she's a runner,
Speaker 1: but she's training for this five k. So so we'll
Speaker 1: get an update, I'm sure pretty soon on the zombie
Speaker 1: five k that explains all those questionable lunches she's been having.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah she was. She's preparing very gray of
Speaker 1: human hair stuck in them. Yeah yeah. Uh and you
Speaker 1: thought it was some sort of like vestigial cafe of delights. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that vestigial cafe just stuff down the street. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the newest thing with the foodies and hipsters. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: you can get some sort of like umor worth a
Speaker 1: tooth in it. Sorry, but hey, I mean it's it's
Speaker 1: Halloween ish, so we can talk about this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Halloween people are still writing high it. Um. I want
Speaker 1: to leave this conversation with a quote. If I May.
Speaker 1: This is from new Scientists and talking about the apocalypse
Speaker 1: and why it's important to people. It says the apocalyptic
Speaker 1: visions also help us make sense of an often seemingly
Speaker 1: senseless world. In the face of confusion and annihilation, we
Speaker 1: need restitution and reassure. We want to feel that no
Speaker 1: matter how chaotic, oppressive, or evil the world is, all
Speaker 1: will be made right in the end. The apocalypse, as
Speaker 1: histories end, is made acceptable with the belief that there
Speaker 1: will be a new beginning. The psychology behind it awesome
Speaker 1: and a nice pithy paragraph. Well, speaking of new beginnings,
Speaker 1: I'm going to reach inside the listener mail and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna retrieve a particular email from listener Mike that deals
Speaker 1: with red bull, or more specifically the idea of Southeast
Speaker 1: Asian red bull, because I mentioned in a previous podcast
Speaker 1: about how when I was in Thailand I had a
Speaker 1: Thai red bull and how it was like a totally
Speaker 1: different experience then American red bull. It was a sweeter um,
Speaker 1: it was insanely like powerful. It's like you felt your
Speaker 1: eyes do that incredible hulk thing when you drank it.
Speaker 1: And this sounds like this sort of hashy strink. Yeah
Speaker 1: it was, but I but I asked listeners like, hey,
Speaker 1: has anyone else had this experience? Or did I buy
Speaker 1: a painted red bull and just had a weird experience
Speaker 1: with it? Well, Mike right, so and he says, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm fifteen and a big fan. I heard Robert talking
Speaker 1: about the tie red bull and had a very lost
Speaker 1: esque flashback. This summer, my mom and dad and I
Speaker 1: took a two week trip to Cambodia, very cool to
Speaker 1: be with some missionary friends and help out with their hospital.
Speaker 1: Cooler red bull was everywhere in Cambodia. We were pretty
Speaker 1: close to the border of Thailand. I bought some of
Speaker 1: it in a little eight ounce can and it was
Speaker 1: definitely how Robert described it. It was much sweeter and
Speaker 1: it was uncarbonated. Fantastic stuff. I'll include a picture of
Speaker 1: it so you guys can see if any of the
Speaker 1: canc look a right like was the red bull in
Speaker 1: the in the medicine bottle carbonating? Um? Okay, So I
Speaker 1: looked at the picture and it looks it looks different
Speaker 1: from what I had. But it's been several years though,
Speaker 1: who knows. The branding may have changed, and also Cambodian
Speaker 1: red bull might be slightly different from Thai that bull.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I have a suspicion that the chemicals,
Speaker 1: uh were very similar. It's possible. I have heard that
Speaker 1: coke in Mexico is far different from Cokie night Stage
Speaker 1: was actually because that thing, right, Yeah, It's like it's
Speaker 1: made with grill sugar versus a high procost corn syrup.
Speaker 1: And I don't remember it was carbonated. I just remember
Speaker 1: that I felt carbonated drank um. And we have a
Speaker 1: couple of other emails here. I'm gonna go through real quick.
Speaker 1: Paul writes in from Australia, says, good day. It's Paul
Speaker 1: from Australia. Where about the only thing that won't kill
Speaker 1: you is our weird, tiny, stingless bees. Anyway, I've been
Speaker 1: listening with Rapped Enjoyment since episode one and have wanted
Speaker 1: to comment on almost every topic cover. I spent many
Speaker 1: hours each day driving and I usually listened in large batches, however,
Speaker 1: and have just never gotten around to it. So I
Speaker 1: put down my panda sandwich with its side order of
Speaker 1: popcorn Cicada's popped a few gummy bears in my mouth instead.
Speaker 1: Wiped my mind clear, chased out the devil and his
Speaker 1: fiendish dub step, and wrote this of what I can
Speaker 1: only assume as my own free will. I had an
Speaker 1: interesting moment whilst listening to the podcast on memory when
Speaker 1: Julie was reading out the list. When she came to
Speaker 1: the test words and read the trick word sweet. I
Speaker 1: quickly raced through my memory palace, noticed that sweet wasn't there,
Speaker 1: and immediately drew an upper case Q on my forehead
Speaker 1: tail on the left. Of course, oop's gotta go, my larval.
Speaker 1: Humans are whining about saber tooths on the subway again,
Speaker 1: and you know how annoying that can be? All right
Speaker 1: again soon if I get enough of the dopamine hit
Speaker 1: from this later. Paul ps Lady Gaga, I love that. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he he was able to wrap too many references in.
Speaker 1: I think he discovered like about a hundred podcasts in there,
Speaker 1: or at least met I don't know, maybe uh six
Speaker 1: year or so. Nicely done, Paul, that's going up in
Speaker 1: my cubicle. Yes, I like the way this man's mind works.
Speaker 1: Here's another one from Timothy. Timothy writes in Robert and Julie,
Speaker 1: thank you for this podcast. It's funny that you mentioned
Speaker 1: how social stimulation helps feel creativity during this episode and
Speaker 1: he's talking about spolinted isolation, because that is exactly what
Speaker 1: the simulated social interaction of listening to your podcast did
Speaker 1: for me. Please allow me to explain. I've had a
Speaker 1: book floating around in my head for a decade or
Speaker 1: so and have never really mustered the creative energy to write,
Speaker 1: as opposed to the dozens of other products I found
Speaker 1: myself involved in. Amazingly, You're description of social isolation and
Speaker 1: its effects were identical to the major themes of the
Speaker 1: story and completely validated my creative instincts. That encouraging knowledge
Speaker 1: gave me a vivid image of the characters I haven't
Speaker 1: captured for a long time. Thanks again, I now know
Speaker 1: how to find my inspiration in the real life drama
Speaker 1: of psychology. Uh. And that was again from Tim. So
Speaker 1: that's awesome. I love it when we hear here accounts
Speaker 1: of how our listeners have taken something or that we've
Speaker 1: covered and have managed to turn that into some new
Speaker 1: creative energy or or some new inspiration uh in their
Speaker 1: creative life. So yeah, I love that too. I always
Speaker 1: think that there are so many different novels that could
Speaker 1: come from some of the research that we do. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I think every basically there's the best selling novel in
Speaker 1: every episode. And I just hope that the people who
Speaker 1: write those best selling novels and option them option the screenplay.
Speaker 1: Uh do they just remember you and I and uh
Speaker 1: and just you know, flow us as few bucks when
Speaker 1: the millions, you know, just treat us to a dinner.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was gonna say a nice postcard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or look at one of those cheese askets. Well I
Speaker 1: would You don't need cheese, but you can send me
Speaker 1: the cheese basket when the screenplay is an option for sure. Hey, So,
Speaker 1: if you have anything you would like to share with us,
Speaker 1: the first stop would be Twitter and Facebook. We're on
Speaker 1: both of those that blow the mind. We regularly update
Speaker 1: those feeds with cool links. That's about what we're doing,
Speaker 1: and we'd love to hear from you, and you can
Speaker 1: always get in touch with us by sending an email
Speaker 1: to blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com.
Speaker 1: Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff
Speaker 1: from the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we
Speaker 1: explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow,