WEBVTT - #55 Toby 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:04.480 Yeah, what do you mean? 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:10.560 Okay, my foot fell asleep? Are my foot fell asleep? 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:12.680 Yeah? 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.840 From a medical perspective, is it better to rub it 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:17.640 or just to write it out? 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:18.360 Keep it still? 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:21.680 I think I think maybe like cutting it. 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:23.479 Off by wait. 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:30.080 Note, hello, Jackie, I can't walk and I can hear 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:40.280 the ice cream truck. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:59.959 Heavyweight Today's episode Toby. Right after the break in two 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.520 twenty twelve, Toby's father died suddenly of a heart attack. 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:07.200 Shortly after the funeral, Toby cleaned out his house. 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:12.000 You know, you just find stuff, find relics of a life. 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.720 Like, oh, hey, here's this, you know, pocket watch that's 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:15.880 labeled nineteen twelve. 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:16.840 Who's would this have been? 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.800 You know, Toby and his dad, Doug, weren't especially clothes, 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.759 so going through his stuff felt oddly intimate. 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:26.760 It's funny. I didn't know my dad ever smoked weed, 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:27.560 but I found weed. 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:28.600 Oh wow. 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:31.960 It's like, oh, okay, it was really old, I think. 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.119 Toby says there were thousands of decisions to make. 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:37.800 Want to donate, what to try and sell it in 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:38.880 the state sale, what. 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:44.600 To keep pocket watch, keep old weed? Discard? It was 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.720 while sorting through Doug's old suit jackets and books that 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:52.240 Toby found a box. A box containing twenty one audio 0:01:52.320 --> 0:02:00.480 cassette tapes. Toby read through the labels. They had titles 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:05.360 like phone Conversation, Terry nine thirty PM, Terry March third, 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:11.080 nineteen eighty seven, Phone Conversation, and Terry's Call. Terry was 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:15.200 Toby's mom. She and his dad divorced when Toby was four, and, 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.000 judging by the dates on the labels, the tapes were 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:21.680 recorded around the time of their split. Why did these 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:26.320 tapes even exist? Toby wasn't sure. He put the tapes 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:35.160 in the key pile. As Toby understands it, his parents 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.480 were never an obvious match. Doug was the button down 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.800 type and Terry had a wild hair. They got married young, 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:46.400 and seven years into their marriage, Terry surprised Doug by 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:48.840 picking up all her stuff one day and moving out. 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:53.040 From there, Terry married a biker dude named Randy and 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:57.480 spiraled into years of wild living and hard drinking. Toby's 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.280 memory of those years is like a series of snapshot 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:03.919 Hugging his mom and knowing, even at twelve, to smell 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.760 her for alcohol. The time his friend told him he 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:10.080 couldn't sleep over at his house because quote, my mom 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.560 doesn't like your mom. And the night Terry took him 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.399 and his little sister, Heidi to a bar and kept 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:17.679 drinking and drinking. 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:22.040 My mom was like unable to stand up essentially, and 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.800 me being seven or eight, knowing like, oh, you're not 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.839 supposed to drink and drive, and asking a random dude 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.760 at the bar like, hey, can you drive us home? 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.600 I remember being confused because I had asked the question, 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.960 and then my mom still drove us home. My sister 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.600 was I think old enough to know something wasn't right. 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:45.880 She was probably kindergarten. 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.760 In the back seat, i'd he reached out for Toby's hand. 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:54.640 And we held hands while she was driving home. 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.000 Eventually, Toby and Heidi went to live with their dad, Doug. 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.320 Things were a lot more emotionally stable there, but Doug 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:13.960 wasn't exactly warm and fuzzy. Toby can't remember a single 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.160 time he ever told Toby he loved him. 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.400 That just wasn't part of our That wasn't part of 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:23.640 our vernacular. You never heard I love you, not that 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:24.279 I remember. 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.000 Although the divorce's aftermath had a profound impact on Toby, 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.320 for the most part, he tries to avoid thinking about it. 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.480 He tells me, he tends to shut out heavy emotions. 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.200 In fact, this tendency came up just the other day 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:43.000 when Lauren, his wife of fifteen years, brought up the 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:43.880 box of tapes. 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.960 But then I saw something very quickly change the subject, 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.680 and she's like, this is what I'm talking about. Like you, 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:55.280 anytime it starts to get deep, you immediately find a bright, 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:57.159 shiny object to change the subject. 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.680 He said, Hey, look at that silver carl there that's 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:01.719 been parked there. 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:02.240 For a while. 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:03.719 This is Lauren. 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:10.479 She's pretty avoidant of getting to those like raw vulnerable parts. 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.280 Twenty one cassette tapes from the exact period of your 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.479 life that you've spent so long avoiding might really bring 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:22.120 out those raw, vulnerable parts, which is why, almost ten 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:26.359 years after taking them home, the tapes remain unplayed, hidden 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:33.279 away in a credenza. Maybe there's nothing even on the tapes, 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.800 maybe they've been recorded over or warped with time. But 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:41.240 maybe they form an unlikely door to Toby's past, to 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:43.840 his childhood and his parents' relationship. 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:47.160 There's so much that I don't know. 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.120 Yeah, my dad's gone, my Mom's gone. I don't have 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.720 any way to find out what was actually happening in 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:55.480 my life. This is the last piece of them that 0:05:56.200 --> 0:06:00.839 like it be new new information. But I don't know 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:02.760 that I'm ever actually going to listen to him if 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.200 I if I don't have an excuse forcing me to 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:06.640 listen to. 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:11.240 Him, And so I Jonathan Goldstein have become that living, 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.960 breathing excuse. Toby has come to me with the tapes 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.240 in order to help him face his past and his 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:22.599 feelings head on. What's the ideal version of what comes next? 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.679 Like part of me is like send you guys the tapes, 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:28.880 and you tell me what's on them and what's interesting 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.680 and what's not, you know, like almost outsourcing. 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.279 Like like create a curated We've done a highlight reel. 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.520 Yeah, here's how your life changed dramatically through no fault 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:42.040 of your own. 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:59.880 Here's the highlights, after the break, the highlights, clear the hold. 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:00.479 Yeah. 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.560 I used to work at a radio show called This 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:04.800 American Life. 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.040 I know it's the show that inspired me to follow 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:09.080 this line of work. 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.160 If you've never heard of This American Life, they're like 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.760 I think they describe themselves. If I'm not mistaken, as 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:17.960 being like little movies for the radio. 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.160 Yeah, it's the best. It was my favorite show as 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.800 a kid all the way to it's still my favorite show. 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.080 And how many things can you think of that are 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.760 like that, that have been going for twenty five years 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.960 and have just maintained the level of quality that this 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:34.880 American life has truly, Like I mean even things that 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.600 you end up loving, like like I love Star Wars. 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:42.520 I watched three episodes. That was plenty for this American life. 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:46.360 It just in some ways it gets better, it expands 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:48.920 its universe and the things that it tries. 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:50.240 Where you talk about it like every week. 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:55.320 Yeah, it's meaningful to us. And I would say, if 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:59.280 you love Heavyweight, you're gonna love this American life. 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:00.440 Say that. 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:01.480 I would say that. 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:02.760 Should we say it in Unison? 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.440 Sure, if you like heavy heavyweight, Okay, you're not saying 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:08.679 it in Unison, you're. 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.960 Gonna I don't know that's saying things in Unison really 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:15.920 excel something. It's not like no, no, no, really they said 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.920 it in Unison. It really imparted to me just how 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.720 true this was. Yeah, but it is true that this 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:26.200 American life continues to experiment every week with what Radio 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:30.400 storytelling can be and it drops every Sunday night, So 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.240 listen wherever you get your podcasts. 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:36.520 I mentioned to my six year old. 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.880 I was like, yeah, I'm talking to Jonathan Goldstein and 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.240 he said, who is that? Is that an old man 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:43.480 you're talking to about another old man? 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:49.000 That he's basically nailed heavyweight in a sentence. I've started 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.760 to go through the cassettes, which amount to about twenty 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.040 three hours of audio. And while there are work calls, 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.880 calls to the video store, a fair bit of Fleetwood 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.160 Mac taped off the radio, a large portion of the 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:05.400 tapes is exactly what the labels promised. Phone calls between 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:09.920 Toby's parents. It seems that during the divorce proceedings, Doug 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.640 had been meticulously recording his phone calls, possibly as a 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:18.240 precaution in case of a custody battle. Toby has a 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:20.840 busy schedule. He works a full time job and is 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.600 raising two kids, so we set aside an hour a 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.160 week to go through the tapes a little at a time. 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.920 Our check ins usually occurred during breaks in Toby's workday. 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.319 Oh hey, hello, Toby, Hello, can you hear me? 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:33.840 Hello? 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:34.559 Hello? 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:37.920 The labels on the tape spent a couple of years, 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:41.080 and we decided to go through in chronological order. The 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.960 earliest tapes are from after Doug and Terry have separated, 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:48.000 but before the official divorce. I press play, and for 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.679 the first time in over a decade, Toby hears his parents' voices. 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.599 Did you pay Joanna? Couldn't get a hold of her. Ah, 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:56.200 you didn't pay her? Why not? 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.800 In this recording, Terry wants to know why Doug has 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:01.800 an paid their babysitter, Joanne. 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.160 Well, I'm going to end up having to pay. 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:04.480 You all the. 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:08.640 Sport. 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:14.520 I'm not asked for any I'm not vindictive, not greedy 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:15.920 just to pay Joanne. 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.679 I'm not going to ask for Okay, Well, I'll stop 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.520 by the HM. 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:27.240 My dad's voice I recognize, but my mom's voice. If 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.520 you had just played it and said who is this? 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.280 I would have I didn't recognize our voice, which is well, 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:34.920 pretty incredible to me. 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.000 And what Tobey also finds pretty incredible is hearing his 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.760 parents speak to one another and with so much civility. 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:45.360 The only version of them that he remembers is two 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.080 people with so much bad blood between them they could 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:52.000 hardly be in the same room together. Birthday parties were separate, 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.480 and at his graduation they avoided eye contact and didn't 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.960 speak a word. But none of that acrimony is evident 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:00.199 in these early tapes. 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:02.640 So you want that stipulated in the papers that you 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:03.760 would have them for a couple of. 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:04.719 Months this summertime. 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.720 In another recording from that time, Doug and Terry tried 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.160 to figure out how to split time with Toby and Heidi. 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.640 What are you talking about game July, July, August, June 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.920 and July. Well, Hi, birthdays in July. We don't get 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:21.160 to give her a birthday party together. We love our kids. 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:22.440 We don't hate each other. 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.079 Not only do they not hate each other, they're getting 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.800 along exceptionally well. They're able to hash out their divorce 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.440 agreement just the two of them, without lawyers. They figure 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.360 it all out at a Perkins restaurant one night. As 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.800 Toby listens to his parents being so cordial, he feels 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.680 a kind of dread because he knows cordial is not 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.800 how things will end. It's like listening to the beginning, 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:57.440 he says, of a horror story. What do you don 0:11:58.080 --> 0:11:59.599 so how did things deteriorate? 0:11:59.679 --> 0:11:59.760 So? 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.480 How did they get so bad with that question in 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:07.160 mind before you head with the tapes. Yeah, so okay, 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.400 I'll play you. Uh well, Toby always knew his dad 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.080 to be a pretty detached person. On the night the 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:18.040 divorce becomes official, Doug seems genuinely lonely. The tapes capture 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.800 him phoning a friend and getting a continuous busy signal. 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:23.800 He calls back four more times until he can finally 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:24.240 get through. 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:26.320 Oh what do you guys do? 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:28.160 Sit her top on the phone all night? 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.079 No, leave it up to until people like you won't. 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.319 Call hear what's going on? 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:35.000 Dark? It's final? 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:36.280 What final? 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:37.040 The divorce? 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:38.360 Oh, it's already? 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:40.640 How can it be done so quick? 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:41.559 Oh? 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:43.199 I'm going to do now to live with it? Did 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.000 you know I'm still going to take a lot of 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:48.000 time to get over it? 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:48.440 Sure? 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:50.640 Sure? One one thing I. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.600 Learned people are not supposed to get divorced. 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:55.000 What do you mean? 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.840 I was always taught that if something's broken, you should fix. 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.040 It, because you know, I remember my parents and have 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:03.199 fight so bad. 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.720 But you know, the found a divorce just never came up. 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:11.440 Yeah, of course you'll never know the whole story, just 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:15.840 like Toby and Heidi will never know the whole story. 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.360 It seems like he kind of intuitively knew that we 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:25.880 would always have questions, and that thread continues today. 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:30.000 As we continue on beyond the divorce, Toby's wife, Lauren 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.480 joins him to listen to some of the tapes, like 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.839 this one, Hi Dad, This is a five year old 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:39.200 Toby on the phone with Doug. Adult Toby, hearing his 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.000 own voice, exchanges a smile with Lauren. 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:50.760 Hey, hey, you got new cereal? Yeah? Yeah, what are 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:52.839 you trying to do? You trying to rot all your 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:53.360 teeth out? 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:53.920 Bye? 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:59.280 Bye? I love you one night, Okay, I. 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:05.280 Love I don't remember that kind of relationship with him, 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:10.640 Like what kind of relationship silly and playful and saying 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:12.520 I love you when you hang up the phone, Like, 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.040 I don't really remember that at all. 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:25.520 The I love yous had existed, Toby had just forgotten them. 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.280 The parents on the tapes are different from the parents 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.200 Toby remembers in other ways too. 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.720 How to bring along her care bear blanket too. 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.280 Not only are they working as a team, but Terry 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.640 sounds clear headed and on top of things. 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:41.960 Yeah, she wrote it on some bog and it's like 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.560 a bedspread type. Yeah, it's the one. 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:46.760 Well, it goes on a little bed. 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:48.760 Tobby knows who Robert is. 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.200 That's who he's bowling the doubles with, and make sure 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:52.640 he gets a ten ball. 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.600 Whenever Terry calls to talk to the kids at Dougs, 0:14:55.880 --> 0:15:03.200 young Toby runs to the phone. 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:07.880 Toby, I suppose so okay, I'll don't get through the son. 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.920 I guess him right here here. 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:14.080 Oh that was good. 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.480 One another again, yad thirsty? 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:25.720 Are you really gurgling? 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:27.680 I really got ruper. 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:32.320 And whenever they say goodbye, Terry, just like Doug tells 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.840 Toby how much she loves him, I'll talk to you later. 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.200 Love you bye bye, love you bye bye. I love you, 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:39.000 love you do. 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:43.640 It's a little bit. 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.080 It's a little bit sad knowing what happened in her 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.680 life over the next ten or fifteen years. Like my 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.080 memories and my mom don't have any of that lightheartedness 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:57.040 or happiness to him. 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:58.640 I remember a lot more. 0:15:58.480 --> 0:15:58.800 Of the. 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:01.520 Of the bad stuff. 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:06.480 The bad stuff continued into Toby's young adulthood. Not long 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.840 before she died, Toby saw his mother at a family Thanksgiving. 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.200 Toby was in college and it just dyed his hair black. 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:16.280 Terry was so out of it that she didn't recognize him, 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:16.840 and she. 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.480 Looked at me and said hi, and then like turned 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.760 away and was like, where's Toby at? And it's like, well, 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.000 I'm right here. My hair is a different color, but 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.520 I'm still here. And that's a core memory. 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:31.000 I think. 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.080 I think that was the last time I saw her. 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:36.360 You know that story, Lauren. 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.680 I didn't remember that story. 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:43.960 It's not a fun Friday night conversation. 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:51.800 I've noticed today as we've been talking about stuff, like 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:54.840 you'll get choked up and then you know you've got 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.920 to sort of diffuse it, like you smile afterwards. 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:00.880 I'm thinking of like, it's a funny joke I can 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:01.680 put in here now. 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.679 Knowing how Toby tends to brush over difficult feelings, the 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:09.840 next clip I play him feels like one of those 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:15.680 origin stories you'd see in a superhero film. 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:17.080 Toby Stop. 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.520 Doug is on hold with joe Anne, the babysitter. 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:31.440 Okay, we'll get your jammies on that. Allen, shove up. 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.879 Act a little happier. Acts a little happier. 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:41.800 Okay, hello, Joanne, Act a little happier. The marching orders 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.040 Toby would continue to obey all the way into his adulthood. 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:49.520 But when Toby listens to the tape, I think it's funny. 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.399 All he can do is laugh it off. Shall we continue? 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:54.920 Yeah? 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:56.280 Hellow, we're here. 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.320 This is Toby's sister Heidi, asking Doug if can have 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.000 dinner with her at her mother's house. 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:08.320 No, I don't think. I don't think too. Why I 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:09.720 don't go over her anymore? 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:12.679 Hyle you over you? 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.280 Well? I don't eat Tipper over there? 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:17.119 Why? 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.000 Because of your mom and I are divorced? 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:21.560 Why they're true? 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:23.280 Oil? 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:28.720 I don't know. I will understand it better when we're older. 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.120 In spite of Toby's being older, in spite of cassette 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.800 tapes unspooling lives, there are many questions Toby will never 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:43.240 have the answers to. But then one day, while going 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.359 through the tapes, I come across one answer to a 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:50.399 big question. How things between Doug and Terry got so bad? 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.679 It happened after the divorce on one particular evening in 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:58.399 April of nineteen eighty eight. Suddenly I can see the 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.520 whole arc of the relationships fall. The recordings are heavy 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.159 and scheduling these tape listening sessions over zoom. During Toby's 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:10.000 lunch breaks no longer feels appropriate, and so I have 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.360 a new idea. I decide I'll travel to Portland, where 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.320 Toby lives, so we can sit down together and over 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.679 the course of a dedicated weekend play these last tapes 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:20.360 in person. 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:22.320 Oh gosh, oh okay. 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:49.399 After the break Portland, Hello, Hello, Toby, Lauren and I 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:54.200 meet in a hotel suite in downtown Portland. Ah, Lauren 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.159 and Toby sit next to each other on the couch. 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:02.200 We all don our headphones to listen so we can starts. 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:06.119 If that's good with you, guys. Yeah, and so we 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:11.159 dive into that pivotal evening from nineteen eighty eight in April. 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.680 For the first time we hear Doug narrating directly into 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.480 the recorder. It's because this is the moment when he 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:22.119 knows he's not merely documenting as a precaution, but potentially 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:23.680 preparing evidence. 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.720 In her house alone. That's when I called the police. 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:34.840 It seems that Terry left Toby and Heidi at home 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.320 all by themselves one night, and Doug called the police. 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:40.520 Toby remembers that night. 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:42.080 We were at mom's house. 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.280 Yeah, and she went I don't know how long she 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.080 was gone, but I was like five, I got scared 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.600 and I called my dad and I didn't know. 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:53.000 He was going to call the police or whatever. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:57.600 So my mom came home at some point and then 0:20:58.200 --> 0:20:59.280 like the police came by. 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.400 Toby doesn't recall his dad talking to him about what happened, 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:04.840 but it seems he did. 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:10.120 Are you upset about last night? And see? I called 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:13.760 the police because I don't think you guys should be 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:18.760 left there alone. And I didn't know what else to 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:22.200 do because I can't go in your mom's house, okay. 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:22.600 But the. 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.520 House they said we might get taken away to go 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:30.280 to your house. 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:32.800 I don't think you will because I don't think your 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:36.200 mom will leave you alone anymore. And that's good because 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:39.160 you know, when you're older, I think you guys need 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:42.000 to be left alone. But not when you guys threw 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:42.440 this yim. 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:43.840 You know you. 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:49.720 I know, I know, but you were scared, and I 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:50.600 was scared for you. 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:54.639 Terry, on the other hand, didn't think there was anything 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.880 to be scared of. When she calls Doug sometime later 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:00.120 to talk to the kids, how do he brings up 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:04.000 that night and Terry explains it this way, Well. 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:09.280 Come when hang left, no pay because I had to 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:10.919 go check out my work and I was gone for 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:16.879 fifteen minutes. Haven't you ever been left alone before you 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.000 were asleep? You didn't even know it. And if Toby 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.199 had been asleep, do you know what? I would not 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:23.720 have left at all. But I thought Toby was old 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:25.719 enough that he could sit here for fifteen minutes by 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:29.359 himself and watch the movie he was watching without freaking out. 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:31.120 But obviously not. 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:40.879 Pretty shitty to put that on me, a six year 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:41.719 old who got scared. 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:46.040 So now that just caused the big that caused a big, big, 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:48.879