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Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you mean?

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Speaker 2: Okay, my foot fell asleep? Are my foot fell asleep?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: From a medical perspective, is it better to rub it

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Speaker 2: or just to write it out?

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Speaker 4: Keep it still?

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Speaker 5: I think I think maybe like cutting it.

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Speaker 3: Off by wait.

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Speaker 2: Note, hello, Jackie, I can't walk and I can hear

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Speaker 2: the ice cream truck. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is

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Speaker 2: Heavyweight Today's episode Toby. Right after the break in two

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Speaker 2: twenty twelve, Toby's father died suddenly of a heart attack.

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Speaker 2: Shortly after the funeral, Toby cleaned out his house.

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Speaker 1: You know, you just find stuff, find relics of a life.

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Speaker 6: Like, oh, hey, here's this, you know, pocket watch that's

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Speaker 6: labeled nineteen twelve.

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Speaker 1: Who's would this have been?

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Speaker 2: You know, Toby and his dad, Doug, weren't especially clothes,

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Speaker 2: so going through his stuff felt oddly intimate.

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Speaker 1: It's funny. I didn't know my dad ever smoked weed,

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Speaker 1: but I found weed.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow.

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh, okay, it was really old, I think.

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Speaker 2: Toby says there were thousands of decisions to make.

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Speaker 1: Want to donate, what to try and sell it in

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Speaker 1: the state sale, what.

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Speaker 2: To keep pocket watch, keep old weed? Discard? It was

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Speaker 2: while sorting through Doug's old suit jackets and books that

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Speaker 2: Toby found a box. A box containing twenty one audio

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Speaker 2: cassette tapes. Toby read through the labels. They had titles

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Speaker 2: like phone Conversation, Terry nine thirty PM, Terry March third,

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty seven, Phone Conversation, and Terry's Call. Terry was

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Speaker 2: Toby's mom. She and his dad divorced when Toby was four, and,

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Speaker 2: judging by the dates on the labels, the tapes were

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Speaker 2: recorded around the time of their split. Why did these

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Speaker 2: tapes even exist? Toby wasn't sure. He put the tapes

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Speaker 2: in the key pile. As Toby understands it, his parents

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Speaker 2: were never an obvious match. Doug was the button down

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Speaker 2: type and Terry had a wild hair. They got married young,

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Speaker 2: and seven years into their marriage, Terry surprised Doug by

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Speaker 2: picking up all her stuff one day and moving out.

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Speaker 2: From there, Terry married a biker dude named Randy and

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Speaker 2: spiraled into years of wild living and hard drinking. Toby's

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Speaker 2: memory of those years is like a series of snapshot

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Speaker 2: Hugging his mom and knowing, even at twelve, to smell

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Speaker 2: her for alcohol. The time his friend told him he

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Speaker 2: couldn't sleep over at his house because quote, my mom

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Speaker 2: doesn't like your mom. And the night Terry took him

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Speaker 2: and his little sister, Heidi to a bar and kept

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Speaker 2: drinking and drinking.

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Speaker 6: My mom was like unable to stand up essentially, and

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Speaker 6: me being seven or eight, knowing like, oh, you're not

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Speaker 6: supposed to drink and drive, and asking a random dude

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Speaker 6: at the bar like, hey, can you drive us home?

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Speaker 6: I remember being confused because I had asked the question,

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Speaker 6: and then my mom still drove us home. My sister

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Speaker 6: was I think old enough to know something wasn't right.

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Speaker 1: She was probably kindergarten.

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Speaker 2: In the back seat, i'd he reached out for Toby's hand.

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Speaker 1: And we held hands while she was driving home.

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Speaker 2: Eventually, Toby and Heidi went to live with their dad, Doug.

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Speaker 2: Things were a lot more emotionally stable there, but Doug

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Speaker 2: wasn't exactly warm and fuzzy. Toby can't remember a single

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Speaker 2: time he ever told Toby he loved him.

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Speaker 1: That just wasn't part of our That wasn't part of

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Speaker 1: our vernacular. You never heard I love you, not that

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Speaker 1: I remember.

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Speaker 2: Although the divorce's aftermath had a profound impact on Toby,

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Speaker 2: for the most part, he tries to avoid thinking about it.

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Speaker 2: He tells me, he tends to shut out heavy emotions.

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Speaker 2: In fact, this tendency came up just the other day

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Speaker 2: when Lauren, his wife of fifteen years, brought up the

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Speaker 2: box of tapes.

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Speaker 6: But then I saw something very quickly change the subject,

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Speaker 6: and she's like, this is what I'm talking about. Like you,

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Speaker 6: anytime it starts to get deep, you immediately find a bright,

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Speaker 6: shiny object to change the subject.

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Speaker 7: He said, Hey, look at that silver carl there that's

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Speaker 7: been parked there.

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Speaker 8: For a while.

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Speaker 2: This is Lauren.

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Speaker 7: She's pretty avoidant of getting to those like raw vulnerable parts.

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Speaker 2: Twenty one cassette tapes from the exact period of your

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Speaker 2: life that you've spent so long avoiding might really bring

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Speaker 2: out those raw, vulnerable parts, which is why, almost ten

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Speaker 2: years after taking them home, the tapes remain unplayed, hidden

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Speaker 2: away in a credenza. Maybe there's nothing even on the tapes,

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Speaker 2: maybe they've been recorded over or warped with time. But

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Speaker 2: maybe they form an unlikely door to Toby's past, to

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Speaker 2: his childhood and his parents' relationship.

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Speaker 1: There's so much that I don't know.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, my dad's gone, my Mom's gone. I don't have

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Speaker 6: any way to find out what was actually happening in

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Speaker 6: my life. This is the last piece of them that

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Speaker 6: like it be new new information. But I don't know

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Speaker 6: that I'm ever actually going to listen to him if

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Speaker 6: I if I don't have an excuse forcing me to

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Speaker 6: listen to.

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Speaker 2: Him, And so I Jonathan Goldstein have become that living,

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Speaker 2: breathing excuse. Toby has come to me with the tapes

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Speaker 2: in order to help him face his past and his

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Speaker 2: feelings head on. What's the ideal version of what comes next?

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Speaker 6: Like part of me is like send you guys the tapes,

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Speaker 6: and you tell me what's on them and what's interesting

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Speaker 6: and what's not, you know, like almost outsourcing.

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Speaker 2: Like like create a curated We've done a highlight reel.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, here's how your life changed dramatically through no fault

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Speaker 6: of your own.

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Speaker 9: Here's the highlights, after the break, the highlights, clear the hold.

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Speaker 10: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I used to work at a radio show called This

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Speaker 2: American Life.

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Speaker 8: I know it's the show that inspired me to follow

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Speaker 8: this line of work.

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Speaker 2: If you've never heard of This American Life, they're like

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Speaker 2: I think they describe themselves. If I'm not mistaken, as

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Speaker 2: being like little movies for the radio.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, it's the best. It was my favorite show as

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Speaker 8: a kid all the way to it's still my favorite show.

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Speaker 2: And how many things can you think of that are

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Speaker 2: like that, that have been going for twenty five years

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Speaker 2: and have just maintained the level of quality that this

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Speaker 2: American life has truly, Like I mean even things that

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Speaker 2: you end up loving, like like I love Star Wars.

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Speaker 2: I watched three episodes. That was plenty for this American life.

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Speaker 2: It just in some ways it gets better, it expands

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Speaker 2: its universe and the things that it tries.

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Speaker 8: Where you talk about it like every week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's meaningful to us. And I would say, if

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Speaker 2: you love Heavyweight, you're gonna love this American life.

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Speaker 10: Say that.

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Speaker 8: I would say that.

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Speaker 2: Should we say it in Unison?

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Speaker 8: Sure, if you like heavy heavyweight, Okay, you're not saying

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Speaker 8: it in Unison, you're.

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Speaker 2: Gonna I don't know that's saying things in Unison really

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Speaker 2: excel something. It's not like no, no, no, really they said

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Speaker 2: it in Unison. It really imparted to me just how

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Speaker 2: true this was. Yeah, but it is true that this

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Speaker 2: American life continues to experiment every week with what Radio

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Speaker 2: storytelling can be and it drops every Sunday night, So

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Speaker 2: listen wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: I mentioned to my six year old.

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Speaker 6: I was like, yeah, I'm talking to Jonathan Goldstein and

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Speaker 6: he said, who is that? Is that an old man

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Speaker 6: you're talking to about another old man?

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Speaker 2: That he's basically nailed heavyweight in a sentence. I've started

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Speaker 2: to go through the cassettes, which amount to about twenty

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Speaker 2: three hours of audio. And while there are work calls,

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Speaker 2: calls to the video store, a fair bit of Fleetwood

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Speaker 2: Mac taped off the radio, a large portion of the

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Speaker 2: tapes is exactly what the labels promised. Phone calls between

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Speaker 2: Toby's parents. It seems that during the divorce proceedings, Doug

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Speaker 2: had been meticulously recording his phone calls, possibly as a

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Speaker 2: precaution in case of a custody battle. Toby has a

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Speaker 2: busy schedule. He works a full time job and is

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Speaker 2: raising two kids, so we set aside an hour a

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Speaker 2: week to go through the tapes a little at a time.

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Speaker 2: Our check ins usually occurred during breaks in Toby's workday.

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Speaker 4: Oh hey, hello, Toby, Hello, can you hear me?

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Speaker 10: Hello?

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Speaker 4: Hello?

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Speaker 2: The labels on the tape spent a couple of years,

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Speaker 2: and we decided to go through in chronological order. The

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Speaker 2: earliest tapes are from after Doug and Terry have separated,

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Speaker 2: but before the official divorce. I press play, and for

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Speaker 2: the first time in over a decade, Toby hears his parents' voices.

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Speaker 3: Did you pay Joanna? Couldn't get a hold of her. Ah,

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Speaker 3: you didn't pay her? Why not?

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Speaker 2: In this recording, Terry wants to know why Doug has

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Speaker 2: an paid their babysitter, Joanne.

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Speaker 10: Well, I'm going to end up having to pay.

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Speaker 11: You all the.

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Speaker 12: Sport.

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Speaker 3: I'm not asked for any I'm not vindictive, not greedy

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Speaker 3: just to pay Joanne.

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Speaker 10: I'm not going to ask for Okay, Well, I'll stop

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Speaker 10: by the HM.

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Speaker 6: My dad's voice I recognize, but my mom's voice. If

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Speaker 6: you had just played it and said who is this?

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Speaker 6: I would have I didn't recognize our voice, which is well,

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Speaker 6: pretty incredible to me.

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Speaker 2: And what Tobey also finds pretty incredible is hearing his

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Speaker 2: parents speak to one another and with so much civility.

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Speaker 2: The only version of them that he remembers is two

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Speaker 2: people with so much bad blood between them they could

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Speaker 2: hardly be in the same room together. Birthday parties were separate,

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Speaker 2: and at his graduation they avoided eye contact and didn't

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Speaker 2: speak a word. But none of that acrimony is evident

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Speaker 2: in these early tapes.

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Speaker 3: So you want that stipulated in the papers that you

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Speaker 3: would have them for a couple of.

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Speaker 10: Months this summertime.

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Speaker 2: In another recording from that time, Doug and Terry tried

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Speaker 2: to figure out how to split time with Toby and Heidi.

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Speaker 3: What are you talking about game July, July, August, June

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Speaker 3: and July. Well, Hi, birthdays in July. We don't get

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Speaker 3: to give her a birthday party together. We love our kids.

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Speaker 3: We don't hate each other.

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Speaker 2: Not only do they not hate each other, they're getting

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Speaker 2: along exceptionally well. They're able to hash out their divorce

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Speaker 2: agreement just the two of them, without lawyers. They figure

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Speaker 2: it all out at a Perkins restaurant one night. As

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Speaker 2: Toby listens to his parents being so cordial, he feels

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Speaker 2: a kind of dread because he knows cordial is not

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Speaker 2: how things will end. It's like listening to the beginning,

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Speaker 2: he says, of a horror story. What do you don

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Speaker 2: so how did things deteriorate?

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Speaker 10: So?

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Speaker 2: How did they get so bad with that question in

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Speaker 2: mind before you head with the tapes. Yeah, so okay,

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Speaker 2: I'll play you. Uh well, Toby always knew his dad

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Speaker 2: to be a pretty detached person. On the night the

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Speaker 2: divorce becomes official, Doug seems genuinely lonely. The tapes capture

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Speaker 2: him phoning a friend and getting a continuous busy signal.

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Speaker 2: He calls back four more times until he can finally

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Speaker 2: get through.

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Speaker 3: Oh what do you guys do?

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Speaker 10: Sit her top on the phone all night?

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Speaker 3: No, leave it up to until people like you won't.

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Speaker 13: Call hear what's going on?

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Speaker 10: Dark? It's final?

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Speaker 3: What final?

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Speaker 12: The divorce?

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's already?

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Speaker 12: How can it be done so quick?

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Speaker 10: Oh?

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Speaker 12: I'm going to do now to live with it? Did

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Speaker 12: you know I'm still going to take a lot of

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Speaker 12: time to get over it?

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 12: Sure? One one thing I.

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Speaker 10: Learned people are not supposed to get divorced.

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Speaker 12: What do you mean?

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Speaker 10: I was always taught that if something's broken, you should fix.

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Speaker 2: It, because you know, I remember my parents and have

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Speaker 2: fight so bad.

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Speaker 3: But you know, the found a divorce just never came up.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, of course you'll never know the whole story, just

240
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,840
Speaker 10: like Toby and Heidi will never know the whole story.

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Speaker 6: It seems like he kind of intuitively knew that we

242
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Speaker 6: would always have questions, and that thread continues today.

243
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Speaker 2: As we continue on beyond the divorce, Toby's wife, Lauren

244
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,480
Speaker 2: joins him to listen to some of the tapes, like

245
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Speaker 2: this one, Hi Dad, This is a five year old

246
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,200
Speaker 2: Toby on the phone with Doug. Adult Toby, hearing his

247
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 2: own voice, exchanges a smile with Lauren.

248
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Speaker 10: Hey, hey, you got new cereal? Yeah? Yeah, what are

249
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,839
Speaker 10: you trying to do? You trying to rot all your

250
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:53,360
Speaker 10: teeth out?

251
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Speaker 2: Bye?

252
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Speaker 12: Bye? I love you one night, Okay, I.

253
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Speaker 6: Love I don't remember that kind of relationship with him,

254
00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:10,640
Speaker 6: Like what kind of relationship silly and playful and saying

255
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,520
Speaker 6: I love you when you hang up the phone, Like,

256
00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,040
Speaker 6: I don't really remember that at all.

257
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:25,520
Speaker 2: The I love yous had existed, Toby had just forgotten them.

258
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,280
Speaker 2: The parents on the tapes are different from the parents

259
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,200
Speaker 2: Toby remembers in other ways too.

260
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,720
Speaker 3: How to bring along her care bear blanket too.

261
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,280
Speaker 2: Not only are they working as a team, but Terry

262
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,640
Speaker 2: sounds clear headed and on top of things.

263
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,960
Speaker 10: Yeah, she wrote it on some bog and it's like

264
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 10: a bedspread type. Yeah, it's the one.

265
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,760
Speaker 3: Well, it goes on a little bed.

266
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Speaker 10: Tobby knows who Robert is.

267
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,200
Speaker 3: That's who he's bowling the doubles with, and make sure

268
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:52,640
Speaker 3: he gets a ten ball.

269
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Speaker 2: Whenever Terry calls to talk to the kids at Dougs,

270
00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:03,200
Speaker 2: young Toby runs to the phone.

271
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Speaker 3: Toby, I suppose so okay, I'll don't get through the son.

272
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,920
Speaker 7: I guess him right here here.

273
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:14,080
Speaker 10: Oh that was good.

274
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,480
Speaker 3: One another again, yad thirsty?

275
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:25,720
Speaker 7: Are you really gurgling?

276
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:27,680
Speaker 3: I really got ruper.

277
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,320
Speaker 2: And whenever they say goodbye, Terry, just like Doug tells

278
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 2: Toby how much she loves him, I'll talk to you later.

279
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Speaker 3: Love you bye bye, love you bye bye. I love you,

280
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Speaker 3: love you do.

281
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:43,640
Speaker 1: It's a little bit.

282
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,080
Speaker 6: It's a little bit sad knowing what happened in her

283
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,680
Speaker 6: life over the next ten or fifteen years. Like my

284
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:55,080
Speaker 6: memories and my mom don't have any of that lightheartedness

285
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,040
Speaker 6: or happiness to him.

286
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Speaker 4: I remember a lot more.

287
00:15:58,480 --> 00:15:58,800
Speaker 10: Of the.

288
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:01,520
Speaker 4: Of the bad stuff.

289
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 2: The bad stuff continued into Toby's young adulthood. Not long

290
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,840
Speaker 2: before she died, Toby saw his mother at a family Thanksgiving.

291
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 2: Toby was in college and it just dyed his hair black.

292
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,280
Speaker 2: Terry was so out of it that she didn't recognize him,

293
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:16,840
Speaker 2: and she.

294
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 6: Looked at me and said hi, and then like turned

295
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 6: away and was like, where's Toby at? And it's like, well,

296
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,000
Speaker 6: I'm right here. My hair is a different color, but

297
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,520
Speaker 6: I'm still here. And that's a core memory.

298
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:31,000
Speaker 4: I think.

299
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,080
Speaker 6: I think that was the last time I saw her.

300
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:36,360
Speaker 2: You know that story, Lauren.

301
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,680
Speaker 5: I didn't remember that story.

302
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:43,960
Speaker 1: It's not a fun Friday night conversation.

303
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,800
Speaker 7: I've noticed today as we've been talking about stuff, like

304
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,840
Speaker 7: you'll get choked up and then you know you've got

305
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,920
Speaker 7: to sort of diffuse it, like you smile afterwards.

306
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,880
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of like, it's a funny joke I can

307
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:01,680
Speaker 1: put in here now.

308
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,679
Speaker 2: Knowing how Toby tends to brush over difficult feelings, the

309
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,840
Speaker 2: next clip I play him feels like one of those

310
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:15,680
Speaker 2: origin stories you'd see in a superhero film.

311
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 10: Toby Stop.

312
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,520
Speaker 2: Doug is on hold with joe Anne, the babysitter.

313
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:31,440
Speaker 10: Okay, we'll get your jammies on that. Allen, shove up.

314
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,879
Speaker 10: Act a little happier. Acts a little happier.

315
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:41,800
Speaker 2: Okay, hello, Joanne, Act a little happier. The marching orders

316
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,040
Speaker 2: Toby would continue to obey all the way into his adulthood.

317
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,520
Speaker 2: But when Toby listens to the tape, I think it's funny.

318
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,399
Speaker 2: All he can do is laugh it off. Shall we continue?

319
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:54,920
Speaker 4: Yeah?

320
00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:56,280
Speaker 3: Hellow, we're here.

321
00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,320
Speaker 2: This is Toby's sister Heidi, asking Doug if can have

322
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,000
Speaker 2: dinner with her at her mother's house.

323
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 10: No, I don't think. I don't think too. Why I

324
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:09,720
Speaker 10: don't go over her anymore?

325
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,679
Speaker 2: Hyle you over you?

326
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,280
Speaker 10: Well? I don't eat Tipper over there?

327
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:17,119
Speaker 14: Why?

328
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 10: Because of your mom and I are divorced?

329
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 3: Why they're true?

330
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:23,280
Speaker 12: Oil?

331
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:28,720
Speaker 10: I don't know. I will understand it better when we're older.

332
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,120
Speaker 2: In spite of Toby's being older, in spite of cassette

333
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,800
Speaker 2: tapes unspooling lives, there are many questions Toby will never

334
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 2: have the answers to. But then one day, while going

335
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,359
Speaker 2: through the tapes, I come across one answer to a

336
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:50,399
Speaker 2: big question. How things between Doug and Terry got so bad?

337
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,679
Speaker 2: It happened after the divorce on one particular evening in

338
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,399
Speaker 2: April of nineteen eighty eight. Suddenly I can see the

339
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,520
Speaker 2: whole arc of the relationships fall. The recordings are heavy

340
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,159
Speaker 2: and scheduling these tape listening sessions over zoom. During Toby's

341
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,000
Speaker 2: lunch breaks no longer feels appropriate, and so I have

342
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,360
Speaker 2: a new idea. I decide I'll travel to Portland, where

343
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 2: Toby lives, so we can sit down together and over

344
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,679
Speaker 2: the course of a dedicated weekend play these last tapes

345
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:20,360
Speaker 2: in person.

346
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, oh okay.

347
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:49,399
Speaker 2: After the break Portland, Hello, Hello, Toby, Lauren and I

348
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:54,200
Speaker 2: meet in a hotel suite in downtown Portland. Ah, Lauren

349
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,159
Speaker 2: and Toby sit next to each other on the couch.

350
00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 2: We all don our headphones to listen so we can starts.

351
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 2: If that's good with you, guys. Yeah, and so we

352
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:11,159
Speaker 2: dive into that pivotal evening from nineteen eighty eight in April.

353
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 2: For the first time we hear Doug narrating directly into

354
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 2: the recorder. It's because this is the moment when he

355
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,119
Speaker 2: knows he's not merely documenting as a precaution, but potentially

356
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:23,680
Speaker 2: preparing evidence.

357
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 12: In her house alone. That's when I called the police.

358
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 2: It seems that Terry left Toby and Heidi at home

359
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 2: all by themselves one night, and Doug called the police.

360
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 2: Toby remembers that night.

361
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 4: We were at mom's house.

362
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, and she went I don't know how long she

363
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 6: was gone, but I was like five, I got scared

364
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 6: and I called my dad and I didn't know.

365
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 4: He was going to call the police or whatever.

366
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 6: So my mom came home at some point and then

367
00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 6: like the police came by.

368
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 2: Toby doesn't recall his dad talking to him about what happened,

369
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 2: but it seems he did.

370
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,120
Speaker 12: Are you upset about last night? And see? I called

371
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 12: the police because I don't think you guys should be

372
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 12: left there alone. And I didn't know what else to

373
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 12: do because I can't go in your mom's house, okay.

374
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 10: But the.

375
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 2: House they said we might get taken away to go

376
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 2: to your house.

377
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 12: I don't think you will because I don't think your

378
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 12: mom will leave you alone anymore. And that's good because

379
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 12: you know, when you're older, I think you guys need

380
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 12: to be left alone. But not when you guys threw

381
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 12: this yim.

382
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 3: You know you.

383
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 12: I know, I know, but you were scared, and I

384
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 12: was scared for you.

385
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 2: Terry, on the other hand, didn't think there was anything

386
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 2: to be scared of. When she calls Doug sometime later

387
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,120
Speaker 2: to talk to the kids, how do he brings up

388
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 2: that night and Terry explains it this way, Well.

389
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 3: Come when hang left, no pay because I had to

390
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:10,919
Speaker 3: go check out my work and I was gone for

391
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes. Haven't you ever been left alone before you

392
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 3: were asleep? You didn't even know it. And if Toby

393
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 3: had been asleep, do you know what? I would not

394
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 3: have left at all. But I thought Toby was old

395
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,719
Speaker 3: enough that he could sit here for fifteen minutes by

396
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 3: himself and watch the movie he was watching without freaking out.

397
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:31,120
Speaker 3: But obviously not.

398
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: Pretty shitty to put that on me, a six year

399
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:41,719
Speaker 1: old who got scared.

400
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 11: So now that just caused the big that caused a big, big,

401
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 11: big big problem. You still through the whole thing, Heidi,

402
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 11: Toby knows all about it, and from now on your

403
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 11: debit or never believe you guys learned either?

404
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 3: Never ever?

405
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 11: If he does, you call me how come you did?

406
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 3: Because honey, you were absolete for the night. But that's

407
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 3: the half kind of fine. The house, I wasn't gonna

408
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 3: catch them far. We got that. How many? We've got

409
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 3: two smoke alarms downstairs here, don't we? And we scored

410
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 3: about the house. One catch the fire with fast climate matches?

411
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:16,959
Speaker 3: Are you guys gonna play with matches?

412
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 12: But that's the right.

413
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 3: We got all new wiring in the.

414
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:33,160
Speaker 2: House Because of what happened that night, Family Services paid

415
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 2: a visit to Terry's house, but nothing came of it.

416
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 2: Legally that was that. Still, Terry felt betrayed by Doug.

417
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 2: Here they are later that week relitigating.

418
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 3: Are you flying for full cut? Are you gonna doll

419
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 3: at that?

420
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 10: What?

421
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 12: I want you to straighten your act up?

422
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 3: My app big war straight Why.

423
00:23:58,560 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 11: You made that yet?

424
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 4: Four year old?

425
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 12: A six year old alone?

426
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 11: I left four I was begun for some of them.

427
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 3: Hoar.

428
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 4: She didn't sound sober.

429
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 6: I think my sister and I were there with her

430
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 6: at that point, like she was taking care of us.

431
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 12: What was probably doing up at eleven o'clock on the

432
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 12: school right?

433
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 11: What was because one of the.

434
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 12: Welcome the other day you said you were going to

435
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 12: kill yourself. If I had gut see kids, I would never.

436
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 11: Tell my own, you know how religious boot star.

437
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 2: What begins is anguish hardens into anger. A few weeks later,

438
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: Terry phones Dog and accuses him of being out at

439
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: a bar called Windy O'Leary's.

440
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's Heary. We are you hanging out Winny o'larry's.

441
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: Should I call the cops on you? You're told the

442
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 3: wanting to talk to you. I think that's a little

443
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 3: bit of neglect. I didn't really call it a bitch

444
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 3: or anything, but what I do want to say is this,

445
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 3: I don't like standing on my front porch spying. I

446
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 3: told you to park in front of the house, and

447
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 3: that's exactly what I meant. And if you can't get

448
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 3: in an answer with the honk, then you just better

449
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 3: start hollering in the door to behind it, because far

450
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 3: as I did it, it was fying to listen to

451
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 3: what was going on in the house. So yeah, I'm

452
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: a little upset, and I've been upset and I've been

453
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 3: holding it in. And that's just the kind of mood

454
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 3: I'm in, and that's just the kind of.

455
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 11: Mood that I have been holding within.

456
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 3: So why did I just give a call?

457
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 11: We know a Larius and see if you'll answer?

458
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 3: Goodbye?

459
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 2: So this next clip is the last tape between them.

460
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 2: It's a long one. Let's let's listen if you if

461
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 2: you're ready, I think so.

462
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 10: That's very important I got hold of. You know, is

463
00:25:58,920 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 10: there a problem?

464
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 3: Can they talk to you about the month of June?

465
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 2: The month of June? This is where the argument begins.

466
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 2: Doug has custody in June, but Terry has registered Toby

467
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,479
Speaker 2: for summer softball. Doug says the problem there is that

468
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 2: he and the kids will be out of town for

469
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 2: two weeks in June. So Terry says, well, great, if

470
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: Toby's going to miss that much softball, he'll probably end

471
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: up with some horrible position like right field, and his

472
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: self esteem will be shot to hell.

473
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 10: You know that the kids come here in June and

474
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 10: you just scheduled it.

475
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 3: The damn league scheduled at that. Well, you didn't contact me, Okay,

476
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 3: certicipate in any summer sports? Is that what you're saying?

477
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 3: What's that Toby can never participate in any summer sports

478
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 3: his whole life till he's eighteen.

479
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 10: No, I didn't say anything like that. I said I

480
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 10: would like to know. I find that.

481
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 3: Let's let the child be just an invalid hum be

482
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 3: a vegetaball all summer.

483
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 10: What.

484
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 2: Terry wants to change the custody agreements so she can

485
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,360
Speaker 2: take Toby to the softball games, but Doug says he's

486
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 2: already booked the childcare he'll need for the whole month here.

487
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 10: Yeah, Terry, now I am, I'm not following. Don't wait

488
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 10: a second, let me talk.

489
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 12: Okay.

490
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 10: Joanne and Caprice have scheduled their time around when they

491
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 10: can watch my kids, Caprice our kids. Okay, I'm sorry.

492
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 2: So Terry turns it back on Doug. Okay, she says,

493
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: if I can't see the kids in June, then you

494
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 2: won't see them in July.

495
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 10: Yes, I will see them.

496
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 3: How maybe my men is still left.

497
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 10: I can see them on weekends my normal visitation.

498
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll have to look at up because I do

499
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 3: tend to look every little thing up.

500
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 10: Are you going to look up about the school that

501
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 10: you pull them out of?

502
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 3: School?

503
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 12: Is getting paid off?

504
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: In those early calls, Doug and Terry tended to resolve

505
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: their disagreements in just a few minutes, But now they

506
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: go on fighting for over half an hour straight. Terry

507
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 2: begins to leave from one unrelated grievance to the next.

508
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 3: The other day, God damn it, Jonathan walked Toby home

509
00:27:59,040 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 3: from kindergarten.

510
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, capriest went too.

511
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 3: Caprice did not take them home. Toby told me this,

512
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 3: that's not true. Oh Toby lied. You know, Toby, he

513
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 3: is not a liar. When I walked to her, also

514
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 3: to talk to the kids Friday afternoon, Caprice, after you

515
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 3: can get up the phone, Get up the own kids,

516
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 3: get up the phone, get off the phone, because I

517
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 3: always make a point of calling them on Friday and Saturday,

518
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 3: which I don't see you making a.

519
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 10: Point of calling the kids during the week.

520
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 3: But when I call, I don't appreciate the babies. They

521
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 3: were telling the kids to get off the phone. Now

522
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 3: I don't appreciate. Also, you standing on my front porch

523
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 3: hearing what's going on inside of my house. To me,

524
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 3: that is fine and low down and dirty. You were

525
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 3: standing with one foot on the porch and one.

526
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 2: And then finally Terry raises the thing that really underlies

527
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: her rage, the night of the police, when two weeks.

528
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 3: Ago, in the cops with here, you couldn't even come

529
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 3: up to check on your own son's welfare when you

530
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 3: were supposedly so dimnn concerned. So what's the difference. I mean,

531
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 3: either you're gonna do it or you're not gonna do it.

532
00:28:58,360 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 3: That's kind of double.

533
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 10: Standards, because I don't think it would have been a

534
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 10: good idea to make a big scene.

535
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 3: Oh, make a big scene when you're taken upstairs and

536
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 3: talk to the cops. You know, four policemen. You don't

537
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 3: consider that a big scene. Four cops, right, that's Orange said,

538
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 3: four cops is a big scene.

539
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 10: What I consider big was leaving the kids alone.

540
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 3: But you don't know our lifestyle. You don't know our situation,

541
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 3: and no.

542
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 10: Second lifestyle has nothing to do with it. You don't

543
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 10: leave a four year old and a six year old

544
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 10: in a house alone in the middle of the night,

545
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 10: let alone in the middle.

546
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 3: Of the day, Copsas has it ever happened before?

547
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 11: No?

548
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 3: And another thing that has or still is that you did, Doug.

549
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 3: Was you sitting around, actually sitting around? Actually nobody can

550
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 3: believe this in your suit, kai your jacket, your dress pants,

551
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 3: your dress shoes and all that at eleven o'clock at night.

552
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 10: Yeah, it was a matter of fact, as you were.

553
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact.

554
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 10: No, I didn't. I didn't have a tie on.

555
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 3: No you had a tie on when you was out

556
00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 3: here in front of my house.

557
00:29:59,160 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 10: No I didn't.

558
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 3: I had How can we see it? She was so

559
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 3: far away when they came up here and check on Toby.

560
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 12: Yeah?

561
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 3: Sure, I mean, do you talk so serious that the

562
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 3: kids you guys ever laugh? I know you do a

563
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 3: lot of things that the kids. I know you guys

564
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 3: go to zoo, and I know you guys go boating,

565
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: and I know the kids enjoy it. But I also

566
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 3: know they're getting to spoiled little burger bets over a

567
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 3: lot of things too. They're getting expected a little bit

568
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 3: too my child life, I think. But is there any

569
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 3: humor and laughter in their life? Or is it all

570
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 3: materialism and soberness. I don't know what's going on? But

571
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 3: why is it? The other day Toby didn't for the

572
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 3: first time, Toby didn't want to go to your house?

573
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: And why did Toby draw a picture of the devil

574
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 3: and say it was you? How do you have to bead?

575
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 10: Dream?

576
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 3: Last night? And it was at your house?

577
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 10: That's the dream was?

578
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 3: What is going on? I am really concerned.

579
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, I don't know. The kids hold a lot of anger.

580
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 3: They don't hold a lot of anger here. Everything's funky

581
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 3: dory here. As matter of fact, laugh to night. The

582
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 3: kids have woke up with bad dreams, and both nights

583
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 3: have been dreams. Had something to do with the house.

584
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 10: Well, they don't wake up with bad dreams over here.

585
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 3: They sleep as well from over there. They're not dreams here.

586
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 3: You know, I'm thinking, is there a perversion going on

587
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: or what?

588
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 10: Well, I think that's pretty strong allegation.

589
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: I don't hear the allegation, but I wonder.

590
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 10: Well, exactly what are you trying to say?

591
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 3: I had it happen to me? Is there a friend

592
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 3: of yours that you are maybe think that's a good

593
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 3: friend of yours? You maybe not be a friend good

594
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 3: friend as you think?

595
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 10: Well, I think you're wrong.

596
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 3: No, that's that's not impossible. That it's not impossible.

597
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 10: How can you comprehend leaving a four and a six

598
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 10: year old at home alone.

599
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 3: For fifteen minutes? And you know what? The DCFS worker

600
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 3: died laughing. She said, tell me, do you know why

601
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 3: I'm here? He says yes, because I have no sense

602
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: of time till tell me. I'll be right back.

603
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 10: I ran three blocks.

604
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 3: I was right back.

605
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 10: Well, you don't leave a four year old care because,

606
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 10: by God, the first time, there won't be no cops involved.

607
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 3: It'll be me and my family involved. Because nobody in

608
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 3: my family can believe they said right or wrong. They

609
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 3: can't believe that you called in the outside.

610
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 10: Your family thinks it's okay to leave kids alone.

611
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 3: No, but they think you should have come over yourself.

612
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 3: But no, you can't even come up on the front porch, Terry.

613
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 3: The police, the police.

614
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 10: Did not want me to come up on the front porch.

615
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 3: The police didn't want you to come talk to your

616
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 3: own son. Did they say that, Terry? No? Did they

617
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 3: say that they.

618
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 10: Got the information they needed? They told me they thought

619
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 10: it would be best if I left.

620
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 3: Did you say, well, I would like to talk to

621
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 3: my son. Did you take the police advice, Terry.

622
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 10: I'm not gonna argue no, No.

623
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 3: I want to know how much you care about tell

624
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 3: me you took the police advice over your own son's welfare.

625
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 3: I personally, I don't know. Maybe it's the maternal instinct.

626
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 3: I would have said, well, can I at least see

627
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 3: my son or talk to him?

628
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 10: Okay?

629
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 3: But the police advice when the police got thousands and

630
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 3: thousands of thousands of calls to make and only one son.

631
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 10: My own concern for Toby is why why the police

632
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 10: were at your house. You don't leave a four year

633
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 10: old at six year old place.

634
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 3: Why didn't you just track your suit, tie, shoes, and

635
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 3: your jacket over here in the first place. I did,

636
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 3: you would have been here before they would have been here,

637
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 3: I was you was here before they was here. Yeah,

638
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 3: that just goes to show me that your concern is

639
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 3: not what your son is, but how it looks reflex

640
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 3: on you. First time I ever ever left the kids,

641
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 3: they told that lady that they told the policeman that

642
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 3: they told you that. I can't even begin to tell

643
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 3: you my anger about this.

644
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 10: Well, that's good because I'm not gonna allow you to

645
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 10: do that.

646
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 3: You're not gonna allow me kiss my ass. I don't

647
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 3: ever gonna happen again.

648
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 10: I don't regret calling the police when you call the.

649
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 3: Police, Okay, fine, anything ever happens, I call the police

650
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 3: on you. Then neither one of us have children. How

651
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 3: do you like them? Apples? You want to calling up

652
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 3: on organizations?

653
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 2: That's tip cut off, Tip cuts off. It's not at

654
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,439
Speaker 2: the end of the cassette. The tape abruptly cuts off

655
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: in a way that suggests Doug had pressed stop. For

656
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: all of his rigor and scrupulousness and recording, It's like

657
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 2: this moment was just too painful to document. In the end,

658
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: Doug never needed the tape for evidence, as there was

659
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 2: no court case. Terry agreed to allow him full custody

660
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: without contest when Toby was in the third grade, he

661
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 2: and Heidi went to with their dad for good Toby

662
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 2: sits in silence, taking in what he just heard. Lauren

663
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: studies his face.

664
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 7: The thing I just get pulled back to again and

665
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 7: again is like, that's my person in the middle of it.

666
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: It's really hard.

667
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 5: I wish there were like better words. I'm sorry.

668
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 2: Toby's always been grateful to his dad for taking him

669
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: out of a bad situation, but hearing this conversation, he says,

670
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: he suddenly understands the extent of what his dad was

671
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: dealing with and why it might have been so important

672
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: that Doug remained the stolid one in the face of

673
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 2: so much intensity. Perhaps someone had to be My.

674
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 4: Mom was being awful, just being pretty awful.

675
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 3: Jerry and good.

676
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 13: They were happy, They were happy until she was.

677
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 2: This is Toby's aunt, Tracy, Terry's sister. I reached out

678
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 2: to her to try to get more context for some

679
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: of the things Terry says in the tapes. Specifically, Tracy

680
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 2: was able to explain the abuse that Terry referenced.

681
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,919
Speaker 13: My parents' best friends that mom and dad ran around

682
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 13: with all the time. It was that man, the husband

683
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 13: and Terry never told because she absolutely loved the lady

684
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 13: and loved going over there and hanging out with her.

685
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 10: She just just loved her.

686
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 2: It wasn't until well into Terry's adulthood that the truth

687
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 2: came out. She called her parents one night and told

688
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 2: them what their friend had done to her all those

689
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: years ago. Her parents didn't know what to do, so

690
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: they did nothing. Terry's boyfriend at the time convinced her

691
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 2: to phone the man's wife. They called together and.

692
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 13: They told her these people are still married. And I

693
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 13: guess in a day or two found out that she

694
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 13: had confronted.

695
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 11: The name, and.

696
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 2: Just a few days later the husband died by suicide.

697
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 10: Told her it was true suicide. Oh my yeah.

698
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:24,479
Speaker 13: I think that was one of Terry's demons. I think

699
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 13: that his mom lived with a lot of regrets.

700
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 3: I think she died with a lot of regrets.

701
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 13: I mean, it's sad I look back and how sad

702
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 13: it is that the kids didn't have her growing up.

703
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 13: Anybody that's in addiction don't want to be an addiction.

704
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 13: That addiction was always dumber than her. I'd believe with

705
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 13: my whole heart if she could come back today and

706
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 13: go okay, let's do this over. It would have been

707
00:37:51,120 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 13: an amazing mom.

708
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 2: The argument about the police was the last tape between

709
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: Toby's parents, but there are two other tapes. Tapes that

710
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 2: were not recorded surreptitiously. You were recorded explicitly for Toby

711
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 2: is a.

712
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 13: Bore start on Friday next to eighty one.

713
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 2: This is a tape that Terry made recounting the story

714
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 2: of Toby's birth directly to him.

715
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 15: DEVI and I've got a whole viewing Xcus.

716
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 11: That was your dad recurring.

717
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 2: I was just so happy because this tape was found

718
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 2: among Doug's things. Because Terry sounds so young and optimistic,

719
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 2: you can tell that this was recorded years before the divorce,

720
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 2: back when things were different. Terry explains how she and

721
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 2: Doug got into a spat and it's what I argument,

722
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 2: but then swore to never argue in front of Toby

723
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: again and.

724
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 3: Incent police but we don't like it, and soth.

725
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 2: Main we made it. All these years later, it's hard

726
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: for Toby to picture his parents as people who were

727
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: once in love, who could argue and then make up,

728
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 2: who cared about him in tandem. In two thousand and three,

729
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 2: Terry died from complications due to addiction. The lasting image

730
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 2: Toby has of his two parents finally sharing the same

731
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: room took place at her funeral. Toby was surprised to

732
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 2: see his dad seated at the back of the church.

733
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: Doug left as soon as the service was over, and

734
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,439
Speaker 2: Toby could never figure out why his father had shown

735
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 2: up at all. Maybe it was for the Terry he

736
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: used to love. Maybe it was for their kids. Me

737
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 2: and you naw kid, No, mister an, let's get this sleeper.

738
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 5: You come.

739
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 2: The final tape I play for Toby is one of

740
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 2: Toby himself as a baby with his parents.

741
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 4: You get the tickets, yo, you get the hiccups.

742
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,439
Speaker 3: This is pretty tricky getting his clothes on you would

743
00:39:58,520 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 3: use for him and all our.

744
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 2: Arm In another part of the tape, Terry sings to

745
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 2: a baby Toby.

746
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 5: See Toby, Gene, I'm so lovely, Jean.

747
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 2: And I need to be Gene.

748
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 3: We never pad so Hello, Toby.

749
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 10: Gen.

750
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 3: Give.

751
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: I didn't want to put a kid through what I

752
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 1: went through as a kid.

753
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: Even back when he was just a kid himself, Toby

754
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 2: remembers thinking, when I'm an adult, it won't be like this.

755
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 2: When I have my own kids, I'm going to do

756
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: things so much differently, and now he does have kids,

757
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 2: a six year old and a nine year old.

758
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 6: Something that has always been important to me is like stability.

759
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 6: That's something I've intentionally built into my life. Yeah, because

760
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 6: I knew what it was like to be a kid

761
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 6: and not have that. And I think we've built a

762
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 6: really good life for us and our family and our kids.

763
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 7: Tobya told me a story from when he was a

764
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 7: kid closed to do BMX racing, and you should tell

765
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 7: the story.

766
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 5: How to answer your story calling.

767
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I wanted to do BMX racing really bad.

768
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 4: I'd seen it on TV. I was like, that's the

769
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 4: coolest thing ever. I want to do this. And so my.

770
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 6: Dad called the one bike shop in our town and

771
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 6: was like, is there any BMX around or whatever? And

772
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 6: they're like nope. And then I never got to do BMX.

773
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 6: But our six year old really is into it, and

774
00:41:52,120 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 6: so like, I've got him.

775
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 4: I'll be an ex bike can work.

776
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 15: Sorry, We're like, I'm going to a skate park all

777
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 15: the time, and he's in mountain bike classes and yeah,

778
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 15: doing that stuff for him that like, it's clear to

779
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 15: me that my dad.

780
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: Went the extra mile in the ways that he could.

781
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 4: I want to do that for my kids.

782
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 5: So he doesn't get emotional very often. This is the

783
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 5: most I've ever seen him emotional. And we've been through

784
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 5: some life together. You're sleep good tonight, buddy.

785
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 7: Like you know, this is this type of emotional work

786
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 7: that's exhausting.

787
00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe, said Doug. Well, I know stand it better

788
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 2: when we're older, which is something that people just say.

789
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: But in this case, Doug inadvertently left something behind to

790
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 2: make that understanding possible and yet to become the dad

791
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,439
Speaker 2: that he is, to give the things that he didn't get.

792
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 2: Toby didn't need the tapes at all.

793
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 5: Just really proud of you, Toby, Thank.

794
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 14: You because I know that you feel that way.

795
00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 7: Now that the furniture's riturned to its goodwill, now that the.

796
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 14: Last months rant is scheming with.

797
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: The damage to pozzle, take this moment to deserve.

798
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 14: If we if we too.

799
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:20,760
Speaker 3: Felt around for far.

800
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 1: From things accidentally.

801
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 2: This episode of Heavyweight was produced by senior producer Khalila

802
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 2: Holt and me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagan. Our

803
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 2: supervising producer is Stevie Lane. Production assistants by Mohemy Micgauker.

804
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 2: Editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Special thanks to Alex Bloomberg,

805
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 2: Max Green, Blythe Terrell, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed

806
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Samson,

807
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 2: and he himself, Bobby Lord. Additional music credits can be

808
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 2: found on our website Gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight. Our

809
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 2: theme song is by The Weaker Thans courtesy of Epitaph Records.

810
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 2: Heavyweight is a Spotify original podcast. Follow us on Twitter

811
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: at Heavyweight, on Instagram at Heavyweight Podcast, or email us

812
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 2: at Heavyweight at gimletmedia dot com. You can also follow

813
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 2: our show on Spotify and tap the bell to receive

814
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 2: notifications when new episodes drop. We'll be back next week

815
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: with a new episode.