1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. 2 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 2: Finally the devil behind bars. I'm talking about a well 3 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 2: known architect, Rex Hueman, now charged in three of many 4 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: Long Island murderers. How many more is he connected too? 5 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 2: And not only that? Are my suspicions real? Is this 6 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: guy connected to even more dead bodies? This is what 7 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 2: has been going? Right now? Do you do the same 8 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 2: thing every morning? I do. I go and I make 9 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 2: a cup of hot tea either half skim half hot 10 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 2: water or half cashy milk and half hot water. Then 11 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: I read crime news on five am after I take 12 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 2: my mother a cup of coffee. I do the same 13 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 2: thing every morning. You want to tell me he quit 14 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: murdering women, because as recently as twenty twenty three, and 15 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: I checked three times, he was buying more minutes in 16 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 2: a cell phone store for his Burner phone, which is 17 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 2: how he contacted all of these murdered women through Berner phone. 18 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 2: He's still at it. I believe that's why he was 19 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: arrested at this time, not earlier, not later, because for 20 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 2: some reason police feared he was yet again on the hunt. 21 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 2: Joining me right now, longtime friend and colleague, forensic expert 22 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 2: founder director for the cold case research institute and star 23 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 2: of a new hit series, Zone seven. Cheryl McCollum is 24 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: with us. Cheryl, he ain't done. 25 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 3: Yet, Nancy. I think you are spot on. Not only 26 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 3: are there more bodies coming, I think we're going to 27 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 3: look in different states if. 28 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: We can connect them. And now that we've got his 29 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: DNA off a pizza crust, I'm so happy they got 30 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 2: it off a pizza crust. Now that we've got his DNA, 31 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: I think it needs to be compared to every other homicide, 32 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 2: unsolved homicide case of women. Now we do know that 33 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 2: there was one Asian male in this mix, one of 34 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: the many bodies found there on Long Island near Gilgo Beach. 35 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: So it's not just limited to women, but I think 36 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: largely generally speaking, it is women that's who he likes 37 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 2: to torture. Have you seen his Google searches I have. 38 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: I hate to even say them out loud. I had 39 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 2: to go rents out my mouth after I read them 40 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 2: out loud. They actually physically make me sick. I hate 41 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: to even actually look at them on my iPad or 42 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: my my laptop. Hey, Cheryl, you remember when I wrote 43 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 2: my first book. It was Objection and I wrote one 44 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 2: chapter about bloodmining, about how people like sell autopsy reports 45 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 2: and autopsy photos and just horrible things associated with murder. 46 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: By the time I looked all that up, I actually 47 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 2: got rid of the laptop. It's like a three hundred 48 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 2: dollars laptop, because I felt that it was just tainted 49 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: with all the disgusting searches I had to run to 50 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: write that book. And when I looked at these searches, 51 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: I mean, can we just talk about that for a 52 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 2: moment place you start. 53 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 3: Well, I think you need to read a couple of them. 54 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm pulling them up right now. 55 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 3: Give the folks some highlights, because I think it's important 56 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 3: for people to understand it. 57 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: While I'm looking them up again, tell me how close 58 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 2: the bodies were to each other? 59 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 3: Oh, within three miles? All of these bodies eight that 60 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 3: we know of in that three. 61 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: Mile stretch, four bodies within five hundred feet. Ooh, you're right, 62 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 2: that's yeah. Is that the gilgo For? Jack? Was it 63 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: those four the gilgo For or four out of many 64 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: bodies right along that very small stretch of remote beach 65 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 2: that were discarded in camouflage type burlap bags. And the 66 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 2: way they were tied up, and the mode of death 67 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: were all similar. And there's DNA connecting back to him 68 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 2: and his wife. She's not involved. Her hair I believe 69 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 2: was transferred from either her or their home to the purp, 70 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: the alleged purp, and that he transferred that to them. 71 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: That said back to the searches. Okay, here we go. 72 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: Are you ready? Well it sounds, it sounds innocuous enough. 73 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: It starts with mistress Long Island, mature escorts, Manhattan. You 74 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: know his office is architectural office is Manhattan. Here we go. 75 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 2: Girl begging for rape porn. You better sit down, jackie. 76 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 2: Teen girl begging for rape porn. Pretty girl with bruised face, 77 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: porn torture, redhead porn, This one scary ten year old schoolgirl. 78 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 2: Hinta plump, blank lips cut off porn. Wait a minute, 79 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 2: wait wait hint plump blank lips, cut off porn. Skinny, redhead, 80 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 2: tied up porn, short, fat girl, tied up porn, tied 81 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 2: up and raped porn. Asian twink tied up porn. Twink 82 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 2: is a slang word for male who has feminine characteristics 83 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 2: tied slave, force fed, blank blank shot and crying porn 84 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: girl hod tide, torture porn. I mean, I guess I'll 85 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 2: keep going. Ten year old, blonde hair girl, chubby, ten 86 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 2: year old girl, black girl, ten years old. There's a 87 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: lot of searches for ten year old girls. Girl with face, 88 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 2: beat up, chubby ten year old girl crying, hateful person 89 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 2: that would even write this or think it. Chubby ten 90 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 2: year old girl crying, thirteen year old schoolgirl, age twelve child, 91 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: girl with blond hair, blue eyes, blonde hair girl, young 92 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: depressed ten girl, oil bodies, preteen girls with makeup, nude 93 00:06:52,279 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: slave girls, old janitor's blank little schoolgirl, crying girl painful, 94 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: blank schoolgirl crying, team porn. Can I stop? Now? That's 95 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 2: thirty entries. 96 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 3: Oh, you can stop, yep. And there's a clear pattern 97 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 3: this torture, porn, the tying up, the cutting off. We 98 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 3: know one victim for sure was dismembered. But when people 99 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: you know, post things and they say things like oh 100 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 3: I'm shocked, there would be this much that he would research. 101 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 3: I want to be perfectly clear, Nancy. You can be 102 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 3: a part time father, you can be a part time reporter, 103 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 3: you can be a part time preacher, but you cannot 104 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 3: be a part time pedophile. Part time rapist or part 105 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 3: time serial killer. That is what you do full time. 106 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 3: People say, well, his house doesn't look like an architect. 107 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 3: That's because he doesn't care about the house. He doesn't 108 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 3: care about the money. He doesn't care about cars. He 109 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 3: doesn't care about his wife, he doesn't care about his kids. 110 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 3: He cares about this. He researches it, he reads about it. 111 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 3: He fantasizes about it. He drives around hunting, He drives 112 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 3: around looking for the right victim. He makes phone calls, 113 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 3: he researches burner phones, he researches GPS, he uses the burlap. 114 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 3: He thinks he's done all these things. But this is 115 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 3: what he does every single day. 116 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. 117 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about what you said, Cheryl. You know 118 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: what I think about all the time. I think about 119 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 2: the twins, my children, and serving I saw homicides and 120 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: finding missing people. That's what I think about. I do 121 00:08:54,480 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 2: other things. I talk about the law. I cook special 122 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 2: dinners almost every night for the twins. I take care 123 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 2: of my mom. But the other thing is what I'm 124 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: thinking about all the time. If I think about, oh 125 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 2: what am I gonna make for suppering like it's about 126 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: what would the twins like. They just had their wisdom 127 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 2: to thought, what can they eat? What would appeal to them? 128 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: Or my mom what could she eat? She's so picky? 129 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 2: What would be good for All the time, that's every 130 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: other topic relates back to that, to that, and I 131 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: think absolutely. 132 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 3: Listen, you and I got together recently and it was 133 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 3: the twins and of course tuking Caroline, but you were 134 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 3: on your way to the store to get the meal print. 135 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 3: You were talking about not just they were starting high school, 136 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 3: but then you were talking about, you know, potential colleges 137 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 3: like you're now in the future. Every single thing we 138 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 3: did that day revolved around the twins or talking about 139 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 3: my children. We did a littlegating on the side, but 140 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 3: at the eight hours we were together, predominantly it was 141 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 3: our children. And that's what I'm telling you. When the 142 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 3: children are are not even with you, you're thinking about 143 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 3: what to feed them. Oh, I've got to get their 144 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 3: clothes ready. Oh I forgot to call the orthodonists. Like 145 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 3: you're doing things for them all the time. That is 146 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 3: this man. So instead of the twins, it's murder. 147 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 2: Can you even imagine performing these searches? Hey, I got 148 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 2: so much to talk to you about. Can we talk 149 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 2: for a moment about this idiot? Now, when I say that, 150 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 2: I know the guy is a very astute architect, so 151 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 2: he's not stupid. He's probably got a pretty high IQ. 152 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 2: But that said, I'm reading between the lines trying to 153 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: decipher everything we've learned so far. Do you think this 154 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 2: idiot and reminds a little bit of Coburger Brian Coburger 155 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 2: in Idaho? Did he actually travel with the burner phones 156 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 2: with his personal cell phone? Because you can I'm guessing 157 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 2: you can see him with like when you kidnap somebody 158 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 2: and everywhere your phone goes, their phone goes right. 159 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 3: Exactly the two. 160 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: Together. Do you understand the facts? They haven't come out 161 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 2: and said that yet, but that's how I understand the facts. 162 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 3: That's exactly how I understand it. And it makes sense 163 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 3: because he wouldn't have left one phone. He had to 164 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 3: have those in case his wife. 165 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 2: Called me up to seven. 166 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 3: Up to seven. And what we're understanding is most of 167 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 3: these crimes occurred when his wife and daughter were out of. 168 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 2: Town, which leads me to the point of did the 169 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 2: some at least some of the crimes occur at the 170 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 2: home because these were extended torture sessions where the victims 171 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 2: were bound gat tortured, rape, most likely repeatedly, and then killed, 172 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: then put in burlt bags and then discarded. Yeah, pretty 173 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: close to us, tithing about a twenty five minute drive, 174 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: So I don't see crimes that took that long occurring 175 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 2: in his Chevy Avalanche. Do you think they curd at 176 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 2: the home? 177 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 3: I do. And if you remember the first victim, Gilbert, 178 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 3: she was twenty four. Remember she had a driver, she 179 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 3: had a security person, but she called down one one 180 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 3: and she said, somebody's after me. She was at a residence, 181 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 3: I believe, and she even called her driver and said, 182 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 3: please come get me out of here. Mike. That's one 183 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 3: of the statements. But this whole thing is the stuff 184 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 3: of Nightmare's nancy, because if you want to know, if 185 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 3: police believe things happened at the house, they're digging up 186 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 3: the backyard, they're taking things out of the house that 187 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 3: just give you such a creepy deal. These dolls, that 188 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 3: doll that's encased in wooden and glass, little frame, and 189 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 3: now we've moved on to a stowage. So yeah, I 190 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 3: think this thing is going to get deeper and wider 191 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 3: and more twisted and darker as the days go. 192 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 2: Explain to me, you're the forensic expert, how you break 193 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 2: down a house like that. 194 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 3: You would literally have to go room for room and 195 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 3: take your time because you don't know where something is 196 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 3: relevant for him. So again, I don't know why the 197 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 3: doll is relevant, but I know they took it, and 198 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 3: I know what it did for me when I saw it, 199 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 3: because I know some dolls were left at some of 200 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 3: the scenes where bodies were recovered. So I don't know 201 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 3: if that's his thing. I don't know if he took 202 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 3: something off each victim and put it on that doll. 203 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 3: I don't know if that's something his mom had he 204 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 3: just kept it. I just know it looks really creepy 205 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 3: and it looks sinister to me. And again, law enforcement 206 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 3: took it. But you would start literally with that front door, 207 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 3: whatever room you're in, and I would go for the 208 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 3: living room. What's on the walls, what's the side tables, 209 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 3: what's on the TV, where's the computer? Look at his 210 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 3: you know the way he's got things set up. Is 211 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 3: there a freezer? Is there anything in the basement. He's 212 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 3: got a shed that he called in one video he's 213 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 3: being interviewed. He talks about like a little work station, 214 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 3: work shed. I would go through that like a crazy person, 215 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 3: because he talks about hammer, and you know there's gonna 216 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 3: be other tools in there. The one victim that was dismembered. 217 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 3: Is there anything in there like a circular saw or 218 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 3: anything that would make that job easier. Does he have knives? 219 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 3: You're going to look at drawings, You're going to look 220 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 3: at writings, or going to look at things that he collected. 221 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 3: Is there any jewelry that's not in his wife's jewelry 222 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 3: box that made get a cigar box on his side 223 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 3: of the bedroom. I would go through every single solitary thing. 224 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 3: I wouldn't miss nothing. 225 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 2: Another issue, did he take items from the victims of 226 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: seven years? And I'll tell you why. I think it's 227 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 2: entirely possible. Number one, that is a really textbook sign 228 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: of a serial killer. Like I scrapbook for the twins. 229 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 2: I may take ticket, stoves or a menu or something 230 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 2: to remind me and put it with pictures. That's how 231 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: serial killers and other killers act. There were several victims 232 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: that had jewelry missing, items that they always wore were gone, 233 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 2: And I want to harken back to a particular phone 234 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 2: call that I believe this Pert rex Hureman made one 235 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 2: of the victims. A man used the victim's phone to 236 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: call the victims sister. So use her phone. So the 237 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 2: sister thinks, oh, my star, she's okay. She's called me 238 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: from her phone. On phone caller, I d she picks up. 239 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 2: It's a man that starts asking questions about her, and 240 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: he then says I raped her before I murdered her. 241 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 2: That was very amateur. It was basically an evil, hateful 242 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 2: prank call. So if he would do that, that leads 243 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 2: me to believe he would do other similar acts like 244 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 2: keep souvenirs. 245 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 3: I agree. He also made a mistake when he left 246 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 3: the belt that possibly belonged to his grandfather. I thought 247 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 3: a while back that belt was going to be what 248 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 3: broke this case. I thought it was going to have 249 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 3: the suspects VNA on that, and I thought somebody was 250 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 3: going to recognize that belt, for example, a wife or 251 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 3: a girlfriend or a sibling, that somebody would know that belt. 252 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 3: I still find it odd that nobody said anything about it, 253 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 3: but I think maybe that'll come later. But I think 254 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 3: it's important again, that the jewelry, anything that's missing from 255 00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 3: those victims, anything that they can now say, we found 256 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 3: this in the home in an unusual place, and they 257 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 3: should put it out there for people to say, I 258 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 3: know that or I recognize this, especially family member. 259 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 2: A cooler was removed from his home at a doll 260 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 2: as you hear Cheryl describe me in case in a 261 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 2: glass case was removed from his home. We don't know 262 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 2: what else has been removed exactly. Many of the bags 263 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 2: were opaque, so we couldn't see into what was being 264 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 2: taken out. But we also know that his office was rated, 265 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 2: and I guarantee his office is going to yield something 266 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 2: that because that's what he would keep away from his wife. 267 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 2: Although his daughter did work for him, the wife would 268 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 2: see things that the daughter may not see. What do 269 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:46,719 Speaker 2: you make of that? 270 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 3: I think the office again is where most people spend 271 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 3: the majority of their week. What's going to be there 272 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 3: is going to be what he spends the majority of 273 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 3: his time doing, which again being a predator, researching, gathering 274 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 3: the burner phones, when he decides to go where how 275 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 3: many he decides to buy? The other thing that I 276 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 3: think is going to be in there in that office 277 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 3: is a money trail. And what I mean by that 278 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 3: is there may be hotel rooms, there may be other 279 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 3: storage units, there could be things that he's paying for 280 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 3: that his wife has no idea about. So I think 281 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 3: that's going to become something that I'm interested in. This 282 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 3: thing again, Nancy, it is so much wider and it 283 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 3: is so much deeper than we know now. Anywhere he traveled, 284 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 3: anywhere he spent a significant amount of time. Again, you 285 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 3: are not a part time serial killer. So if you 286 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 3: spend a lot of time in South Carolina or Rhode 287 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 3: Island or Massachusetts, I would concentrate on all of those places. 288 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 2: Occurred when his wife was out of town. 289 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And now that we've got his face, you're going 290 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 3: to have more people of contact law enforcement going. He 291 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 3: approached me in a parking lot because let me tell 292 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 3: you something about this person. Just like Ted Bundy, he 293 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 3: didn't kill everybody he engaged with. Some of this was 294 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 3: a cat and mouth that was fun to him. He 295 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 3: liked to upset people, he liked to see people nervous 296 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 3: and scared, but he didn't kill every one of them. 297 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 3: But they're going to come forward too, because they've had 298 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 3: interaction with this person and can put him at places 299 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 3: and times and behavior. 300 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. 301 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 2: Another interesting thing that was taken out of his home 302 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 2: is the cat scratch pole. I find that really interesting. 303 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: I'm wondering if cat here was found on any of 304 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 2: the victtoms. We know that he was married during the 305 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 2: time many of these people, many of the victims were killed, 306 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 2: that his wife and family were gone out of state 307 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: when some of the murders occurred. That makes me wonder 308 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: if somehow more hair wasn't transferred. We know his wife's 309 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: hair was transferred. Three of her hairs were found on 310 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 2: three victims. One of his hairs, according to police, is 311 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: found at the bottom of one of these burlap bags. 312 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: I'm really curious about taking the cat scratch pole, the cooler, 313 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 2: other items. And another issue, what do you make the 314 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 2: Chevy Avalanche. I can't believe one of the victims was 315 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 2: seen with a guy who had a Chevy Avalanche at her. 316 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 2: Here's his Chevy Avalanche, which, as you know, I pointed out, 317 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 2: was discontinued manufacture in twenty thirteen. But yet he has 318 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 2: a Chevy Avalanche today. It was just towed out from 319 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 2: in front of his place. I think another family member 320 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 2: has a Chevy Avalanche. Could it be the same one? 321 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 2: I mean, they haven't been made since twenty thirteen. 322 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 3: What an incredible eyewitness to not only recognize as a 323 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 3: Chevy Avalanche, but to know it's the first generation and 324 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 3: the color. So to me, again, that vehicle is going 325 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 3: to be a money tree because again, this is a person. 326 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 3: If you look at the Lockhart principle, transferred hair from 327 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 3: his home to his person to the victim the scene. 328 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 3: So you've got number one, an incredible prom seed investigator 329 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 3: that found one hair. Brilliant. Now you've got this connection 330 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 3: to a home to a person to a crom scene. 331 00:21:58,320 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 3: They're going to be able to do the same thing 332 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 3: the truck, from the truck to the person to the 333 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 3: crown thing. 334 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 2: What about you know, notice all these victims twenty four, 335 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 2: twenty five, twenty two, twenty seven, twenty twenty four. The 336 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 2: mail was between seventeen and twenty three at the time. 337 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 2: In the last weeks, another woman comes forward and she 338 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 2: filed a police report at the time about this perp 339 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 2: approaching or sneaking up on her at a park, coming 340 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 2: up behind her and asking about her boyfriend. The fact 341 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 2: that she told other people about it that it's an 342 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 2: outcry at the time contemporaneously with the incident. She's not 343 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 2: just making this up now, she verified it. She authenticated 344 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 2: it at the time. It's this guy coming up and 345 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 2: asking her very personal questions. Again, it reminds me of 346 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 2: Coburger Cheryl. You know, he would come up to women 347 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 2: at bars, bars he was later kicked out and say 348 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 2: things like, Hey, what's your home addressing phone number? I 349 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 2: would run for the hills as if I had seen 350 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: a monster. If a guy came up and wanted to know, 351 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 2: you know, what's the making all of your car? Where 352 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 2: do you live, what's your address? What's your friend? No, 353 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 2: that's weird, just like this, And this woman actually has 354 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 2: identified Rex Chuermann as being the guy. 355 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 3: Well, here's what we've got to remember. You've got somebody 356 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 3: like Ted Bundy that also killed a twelve year old. 357 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 3: This guy is a sexual pervert. So the Asian male 358 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 3: could have been a witness that he had to get 359 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 3: rid of, or it could have been something he was 360 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 3: just again his fantasy he was playing with. So there's 361 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 3: going to be I'm telling you more people that come 362 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 3: forward like this woman he approached probably hundreds of people 363 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 3: over the years, conservatively just messing with him, Nancy, just 364 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 3: to watch the reaction, to say say something personal, to 365 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 3: say something inappropriate. Once he got that reaction, he just 366 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 3: giggled and walked off. That's just he just had fun. 367 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 3: And I'm telling you, I guarantee the phone ringing right now. 368 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 2: With people that have those stories about him. This was 369 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 2: on July the third, which means he's still up to 370 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 2: the same thing. The woman says, quote. The first time 371 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,239 Speaker 2: he came up behind me, I felt like breathing behind me. 372 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 2: Then he asked me what time I was, and he 373 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 2: saw a picture of me and my boyfriend on my phone, 374 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 2: so started asking questions. He came up to her more 375 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 2: than once at Brady Park. That's when I got my 376 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 2: sister on the phone because I was scared nervous. She 377 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 2: had to come pick me up. I couldn't even go 378 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 2: home from my bike ride, and she filed a police 379 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 2: report about the encounter. That's July three, Okay. Couple that, 380 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum with that. In twenty twenty three, he's back 381 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,199 Speaker 2: at a cell phone store buying more minutes for his 382 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 2: burner phone. As I told my husband last night, man 383 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 2: gets a burner phone, wife gets a lawyer. If my 384 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 2: husband popped up with a burner phone, bye bye? Why 385 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 2: do he mean? Not one but seven burner phones that 386 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 2: we know of? And this year I want to be back. 387 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 3: Adding minutes, somebody asked me, what do you think you've 388 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 3: been doing since twenty ten? And I said, I do 389 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 3: not think he has stopped at all. 390 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 2: And where are the bodies? As soon as these bodies 391 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 2: started being discovered, I think he moved to a new 392 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 2: dumping ground. 393 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,959 Speaker 3: I believe so too, because again, he's watching the news. 394 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 3: This is what he does full time. So you remember 395 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 3: Wayne Williams. They came out and said, hey, we've got 396 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,479 Speaker 3: forendsic evidence on the body. Suddenly the next victims were 397 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 3: thrown in the river. This guy's watching the news. So 398 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 3: as soon as they find you know, Gilbert and the 399 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 3: other ten people along that beachline, I'm certain he moved. 400 00:25:59,000 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 3: There's no doubt in. 401 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 2: My of course he did. But where and again when 402 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 2: his wife was gone, when he would have the home 403 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 2: to himself, she's icelandic Does she travel back home to Iceland? 404 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 2: Because that would give. 405 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 3: Him period of time? 406 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Cheryl, What else do you expect we will 407 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 2: discover about the evidence. 408 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 3: I think there's going to be more forensic evidence that 409 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 3: we now are going to be able to understand where 410 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 3: it came from, whether it's you know, computer information, cell 411 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 3: phone pinging information, or things like you mentioned the cat hair. 412 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,919 Speaker 3: There's no way there's there not cat hair on their sofa. 413 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 3: So when he sat down and leaned back and then 414 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 3: got into his truck and then got to the victim, 415 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 3: that there's not cat hair transferred. So we're going to 416 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 3: have that come out, and that's going to make much 417 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 3: more sense now. And once they get, you know, that 418 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 3: hair live, they can prove it's not just a feline, 419 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 3: it's the same feeline. 420 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 2: You know, You're right, schrelmclum. You know, I'm always been 421 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,360 Speaker 2: a dog person. Didn't really like cats until I took 422 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 2: an astray when I was an assistant district attorney. Nobody 423 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 2: else would take I tried to push it off on 424 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 2: other people, nobody would take it. That cat ran my 425 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 2: life for the next eighteen years. Coco solid black male, 426 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 2: love the cat. I became a cat person and a 427 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: dog person. I now have another cat. Lucy wanted. I 428 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 2: thought giving her a cat would cure her of her 429 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 2: obsessive watching cat videos. Cinnamon she named it. I can't 430 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 2: go anywhere without being covered in cat here. I don't care. 431 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 2: And now we have the guineas and the dog. The 432 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 2: other day David said, what is all over you? I 433 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 2: want you know what? Honestly, I do not know. You'd 434 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 2: have to take this to the crime rapt and figure 435 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 2: out what. 436 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 3: Let me just tell people for the record, you vague 437 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 3: every day, and still there's gonna be evidence that you 438 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 3: have a cat. 439 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 2: Only the twins room so they do not inhale all 440 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 2: that into their little bitty bodies. Okay, the rest of 441 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 2: us can just go straight to aj do. But yes, 442 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 2: I do. Yes, I'm constantly cleaning something that an animal 443 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 2: did but might point back to you. You know, if 444 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,479 Speaker 2: he had a cat, it's all over him. 445 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 3: Yep. 446 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 2: He can even hate the cat, never even pet the cat, 447 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 2: He'll still be covered in cat here. I don't know 448 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 2: how it happens. You have to ask of that about that, 449 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum. I can't wait to see the evidence unfold. Sadly, 450 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 2: there is no death penalty in New York. 451 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 3: Unbelievable police work from that task for as unbelievable own 452 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 3: scene from the crime scene, man. 453 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 2: You know it. And as far as punishment, I guess, 454 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 2: I guess we'll have to leave that to the Lord, right. Absolutely, 455 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: I can't wait for this avenuence to unfold. Cheryl McCollum, 456 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 2: thank you.