WEBVTT - Jess Weiner 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.960 I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to What's 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.559 Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a show 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:15.400 about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and personal journeys. Together, 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.200 we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors, and leaders 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.840 of the world's most iconic brands. Listen every Thursday or 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.880 join the conversation anytime on Instagram at What's Her Story Podcast. 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:32.960 Jess Weiner is a cultural thought leader who has worked 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.839 with thousands of individuals and advised companies like Uni, Lever, Mattel, 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:41.080 Warner Brothers, and Nike. She's been behind culture changing moments 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.959 from Dove's campaign for Real Beauty to the evolution of Barbie. 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.000 What is the part of your career that you're most 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:52.840 proud of. That's a hard one because all the things 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:54.840 that I've gotten to be a part of Amy have 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:57.440 come at very different parts of my life, so they're 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.680 connected to certain kinds of memories or moments for me. Right, 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:04.160 So maybe there's two I think that really stand out 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:09.400 because I've seen the impact largely in culture. Right, So, 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:14.720 when I started talking about beauty and stereotypes in the 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.120 media and the impact of that on the confidence and 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.800 self esteem of girls and women. I think one of 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.240 the programs I'm obviously most proud of is helping to 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.160 build the Dove Self Esteem Project and the curriculum work 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.160 that we've done now to over eighty two million girls 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.280 around the world, like Doves become the largest distributor of 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:35.080 free self esteem content in the world. And so that 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.759 changed me and shaped me because I got to see 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.119 the power of the scale of the work, right and 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.120 you know, I was one person as a playwright and 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.120 as an educator doing this work well before I ever 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.760 fell into the brand space, and then with a partnership 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.640 with the brand, and it's been on now for seventeen years, 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:53.960 so it's not was not a one and done relationship. 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.000 I'm still working with them this many years later, longer 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:59.680 than my marriage. And so I think the other thing 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.240 I'm most proud of is, you know, changing Barbie's body 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.120 and working with you know, companies like Mattell or Disney 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.120 on changing the way we see Princess and the way 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.280 we see Barbie, because they were such lightning rods for 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.239 conversation and culture and rightfully so, there was a lot 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:18.639 of not great representation in those brands for young people 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:23.679 and That was a harder relationship for me to enter 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:27.160 into because I was questioning how much impact I could 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.399 really have. And then I've seen some tremendous growth come 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:32.720 from that, you know, in changing the doll and changing 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:35.639 the conversation, but most importantly maybe changing the way kids 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.480 see themselves in the work, which is always my goal. 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:42.079 I work on behalf of the you know, people consuming 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.720 the messages. The partners that are brands are just that 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.840 for me, their partners, but my real my real client, 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.160 um are other people talk to us about how you 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.920 sigh yourself as a kid. Well, I think that's a 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.200 big impetus as to why I do this work, Sam, 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.680 because I loved media as a kid. I grew up 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.400 in Miami, Florida in the A, so everything for me was, 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.040 you know, just a frame that the moment was Miami 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:08.160 Vice and blonde, bouncy beach babes. And you know, it 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.800 was the eighties so waterfall bangs were really in and 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.520 I had like this crazy jew frow that didn't do 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.160 much and I was like really struggling with my ethnic 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.040 ambiguity and like how I you know, how I showed 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.520 up in culture. So as a little kid, I loved TV. 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.440 I even loved commercials. I was obsessed with who got 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.360 to be on TV and who made those decisions, like 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.600 who got to tell those stories, because I've always been 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.079 a storyteller as a kid. But I had a real 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:37.080 rough intersection of loving the medium and then also being 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.400 very well aware that like girls like me didn't show 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:41.960 up in that medium, not in the magazines they read, 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.200 not in the TV that I consumed, you know. And 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:46.520 I grew up at home with a mom who also 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:50.280 very eighties, was on every diet known to humankind, and 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.360 was had been also indoctrinated with her own you know, 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.080 body image messaging. So I got that passed down to 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.960 me as far as like an emphasis on thinness and 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.640 beauty and a similating to kind of popular culture views 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.119 of beauty. And so I struggled quite a bit as 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.800 a kid with reconciling this insane creativity and curiosity I 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.120 had and then trying to figure out how I could 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.120 put it out in the world. And so much of 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:15.440 being a girl in the world still is about being 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:19.600 validated on your attractiveness and your appearance, and so, you know, 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:21.360 then it was just a lot harder because I didn't 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:23.960 have any framework to know what was going on. You 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.280 wrote about this time in your book A Very Hungry Girl. 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.280 It was a very dark time for you a lot 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.120 of that era. Can you share with us what it 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:34.919 was really like, because I'm sure also a lot of 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.440 our listeners have children that are going through challenges. Now. 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:41.920 I really had a very close relationship with my mom 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.359 growing up, but I think within that closeness there was 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.760 a lot of amishment around the things that she had 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.240 struggled with as a young person and then as an 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.520 adult and hadn't done a lot of work on herself before, 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:56.760 you know, and as she was raising kids. Just wasn't 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.680 that generation that went to therapy that really looked inwards. 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.880 So I absorbed a lot of that messaging. Like I 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.480 grew up in a family where we did group diets, 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:07.040 you know. My dad was on a diet, my mom 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.520 was on a diet. We had a little chart, you know, 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:13.479 in our bathroom where people logged their weight publicly. But 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:15.880 it was so normalized for me. It was just what 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:18.520 I thought you did, and I thought when you got 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.240 into puberty, because this was the big message for me. Right, 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.080 I wasn't a kid who grew up with a weight problem. 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.200 That's the irony of this, and that's maybe why I 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.640 would say sam I wrote that book first was to 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.920 kind of talk to both parents and kids and say, 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:38.200 what you maybe innocently thinking is good advice for your daughters, 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.799 if it's not examined on its own merit of health 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.400 and wellness, like, can be very damaging. Because my mother 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.360 didn't want me. She was overweight as a kid. I 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.480 was not, but she didn't want me to go through 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.000 what she did. So it was this preventative measure right 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:53.919 from her to say, we're going to start you on 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:56.400 a diet. When I started to develop hips and breasts 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.000 and like started to put on a little bit of weight. 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:00.880 But I look back at those pictures and I think, 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.280 oh my god, I was just going through puberty. I 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:05.320 wasn't like you know, and and even if you do 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.360 have an obese kid, or you've got a kid who 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.120 carries extra weight on their frame, like, the manner of 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.960 the conversation was never an affirming one about my body 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.640 image and navigating my hunger and my puberty and my growth. 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:22.040 It was all this very intense shame around being heavy, 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.880 taking up space, wanting to be accepted and approved of 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:29.040 on the outside world. So I think for me, UM, 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:32.800 I started you know, developing and eating disorder late middle school, 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.679 high school for sure. That lasted you know, well into 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:39.640 my twenties, and um, you know, was a result of 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.479 a lot of this messaging both at home and I 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.880 think obviously out out in the world. UM. And it 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:48.560 wasn't until college that I went into like recovery for 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.640 it or treatment for it, that I actually really had 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.760 a framework of understanding how much I had absorbed from 0:06:56.000 --> 0:07:00.280 my mother's unmet needs and unmet pain around this shoe. 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:02.480 And it's really hard because for many years I wanted 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:04.640 to just you know, blame and I think we all 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:06.520 go through this period where you have an awareness and 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:08.600 you want to keep it on our parents. And I, 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:10.800 you know, I've been in therapy for quite some time. 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:12.480 I've done a lot of healing around it. Still have 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:14.800 a lot more to do, but I get it more 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:18.400 now that she was coming from a place that she 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.600 could only come from, and that was you know, her 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.920 own misinformation and pain as a kid in doing that. 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:27.600 So I think that fueled for me why I want 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.240 to work on the systemic change, not just broadly out 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.600 in culture, but in how we engage in our families too. 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.760 What is your relationship to your body today? We've gone 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.480 on such a journey together, me and this beautiful body 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.800 that is now in full blown perimenopause, y'all. So here's 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.000 the beautiful part of it. Is, like I'm talking to 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.720 you all about like my puberty days, which now are 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:50.920 like so far in my rear view mirror, and I'm like, 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:55.480 holy crap, nobody prepared me for like late forties perimenopause 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.680 and all of the shifts that are happening there. But 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:02.720 I will say that I'm the healthiest I've been both physically, emotionally, 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.200 mentally spiritually that I've ever experienced in my journey in 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:09.680 this earth so far. And that's come from a long 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:14.960 fought battle with like both the mental unwellness of an 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.400 eating disorder and the long lasting effects of diet culture 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:22.280 in this country, and also new things that get to 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.520 pop up when you unpack something like inn eating disorder. 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:27.960 You know, it's not just about what you're eating or 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.920 not eating, or obsessing about weight. It's a it's a metaphor, 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.280 it's a euphemism for so much more. And I it's 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:36.440 like women, it's we're not allowed to take up space. 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.680 That's very still very scary, still very damaging. And even 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.600 though we've got lots of raw, raw confidence messaging, which 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:44.920 I'm highly aware of, at the end of the day, 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.760 the world doesn't reward confident women. They just don't. Still 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:53.280 it's still a liability to be a confident woman. Even 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.360 though we tell our girls that's what we want them 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.839 to be, the world is still not set up, I 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:02.240 think to fully accept and embrace the complexity of a 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.760 woman who loves herself and who takes up space. And 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.840 I think those are the things I now grapple with 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.760 as I have age and wisdom under my belt. Is 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:16.480 you know, reassigning my values like learning to heal and 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.720 let go, but also learning more what's really important to 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.040 me and taking up space and being seen is really 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:23.679 important to me. But I had to do that for 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:25.960 me first. When I was a kid. I did that 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:28.719 with regard to like a physical facade, like if you 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:33.040 complimented me, then I felt seen on these very surface 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.599 kind of symptoms. And now I'm I'm interested in a 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.200 different kind of relational piece and all of that, I 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.240 guess goes back to the question about my body. Because 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.160 this is the suit of which I walk through the 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.199 world in. And you know, and now I have a 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.320 different relationship and caring for me and as such, caring 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:52.680 for my for my body in different ways and for 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:56.320 different reasons. How do you start from a very early 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:00.560 age instilling a love of your body at an says, 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.520 I think that comes from being living your own healing 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.120 at any stage of which you're at as a parent. 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.000 It's if you haven't started looking at it yet, then 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.400 let this conversation be the wake up call for thinking 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:15.560 about that. It doesn't mean you have to parent from 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.480 a place of perfection. We know that that's impossible and 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:21.840 and unnecessary even in this conversation. But what I wished 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:26.080 I would have had from my mother was transparency in 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.240 her real journey about where she was at. My mother 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:35.520 just wasn't hadn't done any exploration about the diet messaging 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.199 and the abuse that she had put her body through, 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:42.440 and was parenting from that place. And so I would 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:46.720 say the biggest advice is, you know, get conscious of 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.360 your body beliefs and your body biases. You know, if 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.080 you proposed to have at home this like body free 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.280 talk where you know you're not talking about weight with 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.880 your kids, but you're in the car with them and 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.600 you're talking about wait on the phone with your friend 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:05.600 that they're overhearing, or you're commenting on a stranger passing by. 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.080 Like they pick up on all of it, not just 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.680 the direct messaging. And so I would say it requires 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.600 a real sense of awareness and grace because I do 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:17.760 talk to tons of moms every day who are like, 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.000 you know, want to be better for their kids, and 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.480 I'm always like, be better for you. Your kids will 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.360 pick up on what that means to do that right, 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.200 and I think that's most important. So for me, it's 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:33.920 about starting conversations, not having the perfect conversation about body image. 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:39.520 Is it possible to go from insecure two super confident? 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.040 Do you think that's something we can do? Yeah, but 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.360 I I do. But I also think those are not 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:49.440 like stations for arrival their manners of traveling. I think 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:53.280 everybody has moments of insecurity and moments of confidence, So 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.040 I would I would encourage us to not think about 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.800 them as stationary elements of being, Like, right now, you 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:00.959 might be in an insecure faces in your life, whether 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:04.000 you're you know you're twelve or your forty two, Like 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:08.920 insecurity is a natural human experience and doesn't have to stay. 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.480 And I think and confidence can also be a natural 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.960 human experience but doesn't always stay. So I love to 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:19.480 talk about emotions as energy in motion. They move through 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.240 your body, they move through your life. It's like they're 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.880 not stationary, they're fluid and flexible. And I think if 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:29.360 we could develop a emotional literacy around that, amy it 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:33.240 would be helpful for us to recognize that these moments 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.839 they happen, they're real, we can feel them, we can 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.120 experience them, and then we can move on from them, 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:40.880 so we don't stay stuck in that label. So when 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.400 you ask can you move from insecurity confidence, I mean 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.080 I could do that in one day. I could do 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.640 that in one morning, like depending on the circumstance, you know. 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.800 So I think it's important to know it's all within us. 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.040 All of it is within us, and none of it 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.679 is based on external things. We might think it is right, 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:58.960 We might think, well, I'll be confident when I have 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.760 this or reach at or have this goal met. But 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:05.240 you we all know this, We know incredibly successful people. 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.640 That does not guarantee their happiness or confidence. So it's 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.280 really an inside job and now a quick break. Are 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.360 you a woman owned business looking for a new sales channel. 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.160 I'm so excited to tell you about our newest partner 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.320 in the W Marketplace. Founded by two women, it's a 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:24.960 nationwide e commerce site for women entrepreneurs and the shoppers 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.200 who support them. It offers favorable terms and is a 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:32.440 supportive community for female founded companies. With over five hundred 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:36.200 women owned businesses selling thousands of products and services, the 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:40.199 W Marketplace might be your favorite new sales channel. Intrigued 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.440 learn more at Join the W Marketplace dot com. Jess, 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:49.200 you have basically been an entrepreneur throughout your entire career, 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:54.440 starting in your twenties, and you've reinvented yourself and your 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:59.680 direction many times. What have you learned about entrepreneurship and 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.800 and what are your sort of thoughts on entrepreneurship today? 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.480 You know, I wish I had a community like the 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:09.120 both of you. When I was twenty one and deciding 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.479 to start a business. Without even knowing the term entrepreneur, 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.679 I just knew I was a highly I was a 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.440 highly educated person who didn't like any of her job 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.400 prospects like I was a creator who had three degrees 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.200 from university that guaranteed me literally to make no money 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.520 because they were all liberal arts degrees that I loved, 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.720 and there wasn't a career path forge that was like 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.920 combining theater and women's studies and social issues. So I 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.360 was like, how does one make this? And what I 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.200 will say is the solo entrepreneur journey for me, which 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:41.800 started at twenty one and I'm now forty eight, so 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.600 I've been doing this my entire career. I've never worked 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:49.000 for anybody else, um, except for a retail company I 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.480 worked with for four days selling clothes and then I 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.600 had to I had to leave that job. But that 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.760 was my only experience like four days. And here's the 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.400 story I don't often tell. That was at a company 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.520 called u ner and you know, which was then owned 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.520 by the Limited, and I was selling clothes. But I 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.400 was a terrible like floor person because I was in 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.000 the dressing rooms talking to women who were having breakdowns 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:13.800 about their bodies more than I was out on the floor. 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.000 And while I was in a dressing room with a 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.320 young girl and her mom during back to school shopping, 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.640 somebody stole four leather coats off the floor. What I 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.880 wasn't looking, and so I think my career in retail 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.600 was going to be limited no matter what, because my 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:30.400 heart was in helping in a different way than selling. 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:32.800 I mean, turns out they actually bought a lot of 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.400 clothes after our confidence pet Hawk in the dressing room. 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.000 But I was not destined to be a store manager 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.520 in that way. But I you know, what I learned 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.720 about entrepreneurship is that it's really lonely if you don't 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.480 tap into community. And I know, for me obviously, because 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.320 I was doing this in the you know, early nineties 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:51.280 and two you know, and and didn't have like we 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.080 didn't have the Internet. I didn't have the connection to community. 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.840 I didn't have a framework of entrepreneurship. And what I 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.680 was actually doing was quite brave and awesome. I did 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.400 it as a survival technique. I mean, I I've always 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.360 figured out how to make money doing what I love. 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.880 I will find. I understood the relationship as like finding 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.000 my audience, figuring out how to you know, that transactional 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.960 experience of like what's the need? And so when I started, 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.360 I started as a nonprofit theater director and I made 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.400 up that company by getting a grant for five thousand 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.920 dollars from a pharmaceutical company who had like issued an 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.120 arts grants program, and I I applied, I got it, 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.560 and then I started a company on five thousand dollars 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:31.640 and had no idea like how do I that you 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.800 should match it, that I needed to raise more money. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:36.920 I just started doing it and figuring out as I went. 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.000 So I think three big things would be it can 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.720 be really lonely, and sometimes it still is really lonely. 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.080 I think, you know, I'm captain of my own ship here. 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.000 I have a really wonderful team. But as you said, 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.360 I reinvent all the time, and that can feel so 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:55.360 scary and inconsistent, and and I'm always questioning, am I 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.120 you know? A good leader? Am I supposed to be 0:16:58.160 --> 0:16:59.760 this way or that way? So there's a lot of 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:01.800 lonely and is there? But the other two things I'll 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:05.359 say is there's incredible I love the excitement of the 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:09.639 hunt of being an entrepreneur and onto innovating and creating 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:13.160 and the freedom and flexibility to do that. And then 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.359 the third piece I'll say is I'm a problem solver, 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:19.080 and entrepreneurship lets me experience that. Like I like to 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.040 continue to explore ways to be part of the solution 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.360 when I see something that's there. So it's a it's 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.560 a mixed bag, you know for me unfortunately, like I 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:32.159 don't think there's anything else I'm really designed to do. 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.400 But um, you know, even knowing that it's it's still 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:36.919 you know, it's an up and down journey, as you 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:41.159 both well know, how do you build your life independent 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.480 of expectations or the way other people do it? Or 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:46.840 you know, how do you avoid falling into that trap 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.040 over and over again? Whether or not it's it's about 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.159 falling into thinking I need to do it in a 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:54.400 certain way that people do it. For me, it's more 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.040 about what level of success and what kind of success 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.920 am I really like looking to create? Eight? What does 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.520 success look like for me? Um? Because I can tell 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:06.280 you at a time in which my company was the 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:10.119 most profitable, I was the most miserable personally and having 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:14.560 the deepest health crisis mentally, because I was building a 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.240 business that looked great on the outside to other people 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.600 and was shiny and had all the attributes that got 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.600 the accolades, But it was not born from where this 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.280 work is born from for me, which is relationships and 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.600 problem solving and being creative. I had lost that and 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.280 so no amount of money I've now discovered is worth 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.720 that kind of feeling. And now I've redesigned the company 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.760 and I'm out of space again where I am incredibly 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:43.000 aligned and profitable and growing. And it's different because I 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.399 grounded it in values that were important to me, and 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:47.760 I did things that the old entrepreneur and boss and 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.760 me would have never done, Like permanent half day fridays 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.960 for us is just one example that happened, especially during 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.639 the pandemic, where we were just like we all needed 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.119 two and a half day weekends. It's minor, but it's major. 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:00.920 When you're a small gamen, you're at the beck and 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.680 call of big clients, like choosing that was important, or 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.400 putting mental health and wellness first and designing my business 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:10.760 around what that meant for me and then there for 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:14.800 my employees. So those things now are my guide posts, 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.840 and I think that's what helps me amy stay more 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:22.000 centered on my definition of success versus blindly sort of 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:24.760 going out there and trying to emulate a model that's 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:26.679 not mine. I have an I P business. I'm not 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:30.160 selling gidgets and gadgets like that's not my my main 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:33.080 UM connective point, and so in order to protect that 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:35.480 i P, I had to protect the body, the life, 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.640 and the world at that i P lives in. Talk 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:43.080 to us about your journey to romantic success. Well, Sam 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:47.040 knows my amazing partner in life that I didn't marry 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.480 until I was forty years old. My husband's name is 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:53.360 Philippe and UM. I met him in my late thirties, 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:57.720 and so my journey to UM, to the romantic partnership 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:01.159 of my life is UM. It's such a great journey 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:05.240 because ultimately, I would say to anybody listening, UM, partner 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:07.639 did not come in the package that I had thought. 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:10.160 You know, my partnership would come in as we hear 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.040 all the time, and in some ways, I feel quite 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.679 like a cliche. I had been in love with other people, 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.240 I'd been in long term relationships, and I would always 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.800 hear people's health stories about the moment they knew they 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.479 were in love and like boo, like you know, and 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:25.720 I was like, well, I've loved people and I've been 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:29.040 in love, and then I had that moment with my husband. 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.560 We we knew each other casually. I was actually engaged 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:34.959 to somebody else for a very short period of time 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.280 on the path to becoming a step mom, and really 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.560 discovered that I loved the kid more than I loved 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:44.840